WEBVTT

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I'm never on stage with banter being like, this

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will be funny. I will make someone laugh. I think

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the idea that someone gets up and goes, I know

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it's funny. I'll say it. And then people will

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laugh is like the wildest, scariest thing. Welcome

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to Overeducated and Underemployed. We've got

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my first interview here. I've remastered it.

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It's from back in March of last year. J. Roddy

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Walston is on tour right now. Check it out. Buy

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tickets. He's got a great new band together.

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I'm going to be remastering about one of these

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every few weeks. I've got a few that the audio

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quality just wasn't where I hoped back then.

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I've gotten better software. Here's my interview

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with J. Roddy Walston from March of last year.

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All right, I'm here with J. Roddy Walston. Full

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disclosure, I'm a fan, and he played in my house

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last night. We're going to just be talking about

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the house show tours that he's doing right now.

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And with that, hey, Roddy, how you doing, man?

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I'm good, man. I'm good. I got to let you know,

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I'm also a big fan of mine. That's good. That's

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good, man. Let's just start. Like, what? What

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was the first, like, musician that you loved?

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Ooh. First musician I loved. I remember, very

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much remember two moments that I heard something

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and I was like, I wasn't even like, I was a kid,

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but I, in Ferris Bueller's Day Off when he was

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in the parade and they were singing, he was lip

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syncing to the Beatles and, but it's the Shake

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It Up Baby or whatever and it's, one of those

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recordings where John Lennon's sick and his voice

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just sounds destroyed. And I was like, I want

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to sound like that. So I didn't even know what

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I was listening to, but it was just like, ooh.

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And then in the same way, seeing Jailhouse Rock

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and Elvis playing it, I was just like, this is,

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I didn't really care about the visuals as much

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as just like the way his voice sounded. I was

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just like, this is so cool. In a more like, actually

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knew what I was listening to kind of way. Yeah,

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yeah. I found a box of records in my house, and

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I have no idea whose records they were because

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it was not my parents, and I don't know. And

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it was the first three U2 records, Aerosmith,

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Toys in the Attic, and... Sorry about that. I

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thought I had this thing. Aerosmith, Toys in

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the Attic, and... No, that was the box of records.

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And so that kind of, like, really just... flip

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my lid because at that point all I'd ever really

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listened to was like church stuff or music that

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was in movies or whatever. And then the first

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CDs I bought was DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh

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Prince, like that first record. Same day bought

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that, R .E .M. Automatic for the People, and

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those two records were a lot of the early 90s

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stuff for me. And then A year or so after that,

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my brother brought home Nevermind, and it was

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just like, this is so dangerous. We're going

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to get in trouble. Just the way it sounded. And

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then in that same world, like, the Wayne's World

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soundtrack, strangely, like, really, that movie

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just was everything to me and my friends when

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it came out. So the soundtrack was, like, we

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were putting it on to feel something from the

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movie, but then it was like, oh, this kind of

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really turned me on to a lot of... different

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stuff. So I don't know. That's interesting. The

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Wayne's world soundtrack is an interesting, just,

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there's a cool story behind that too. They were

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really fighting for Alice Cooper to play schools

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out for summer, like in the movie. And they had

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a new album coming out. Yeah. And the label was

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like, Frankenstein. Yeah. The label was like,

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no, you got to play the new album. You got to

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play the new song. Yeah. And the compromise they

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reached was like, okay, we were going to play

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the new song in the movie, but. The closing credits,

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you get schools out. And Mike Myers said it turned

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out fine, because that's all anybody remembers

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anyway. I think it's crazy that Twist and Shout

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was one of the first songs that ever grabbed

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you. Because it was for me, too. In fact, it

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might be the very first song. Different path,

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although I do love Ferris Bueller. My elementary

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school, no, my preschool, when we had a little

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graduation ceremony, and we sang that song. Oh,

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crazy. And I remember my mom taking me to the

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mall, to the Sam Goody. Yeah. And I bought, it

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was the collection Beatles Rock and Roll Music.

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Oh, yeah. And it was one of the volumes. I can't

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remember which one. Whichever one had Twist and

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Shout on it. Yeah. And that was the first cassette

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I ever had. Yeah. Because we were too poor for

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me. Like, CDs were out, but I didn't have the

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money to go buy CDs. But, yeah, that's, it's

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really interesting. Like, I, and it's not the

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first time I've heard somebody say. Not just

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the Beatles, but that song in particular. Yeah,

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it's a great... If you're into a rock vocal kind

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of performance, that's got to be an all -time.

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I think you can play that for anyone at any given

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moment. It's just, what the hell is going on

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here? So do you think there's a common thread

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between what you liked about that and then what

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you heard in Nevermind? Where it's the kind of

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dangerous... Because, I mean, obviously, like,

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Twist and Shout's not as edgy of a song, but

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maybe at that age. Yeah. And especially the way

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you talked about John's vocals on that track.

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Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, somewhere in there

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is, yeah, that Kurt's vocals are very blown out

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and wild and different than, say, now. It's just,

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like, everything is so processed and it's not...

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Most people, you're not hearing, like, a singular

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performance or even maybe... the best of two

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takes put together or something like that. Yeah,

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I mean, yeah, I'm definitely, like, drawn to

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vocals and the wildness in those vocals. Or someone

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being able to, like, really bring it down and

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suck you in in a different way. But, yeah. Also,

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when you're young, you're just, like, you're

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still open to everything, usually. Yeah, yeah.

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Everybody's an artist. when they're a toddler,

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right? Yeah, and there's no rules, and you just

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kind of like what you like. Yeah, so it was as

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wild to me to get the Fresh Prince record. I

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was terrified of Nightmare on My Street. Do you

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feel like that's pretty representative of the

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diversity in the music that you still listen

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to? Because those are other ends of the spectrum

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a lot. Yeah, it's odd and weird. Like some people,

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I think they do like... rock and roll influenced

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stuff they get sucked into some romance with

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the idea of what if i pretend i'm from 71 or

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i pretend i'm from 55 or whatever and they're

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dressing that way and they sing that way and

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record that and it's like i gotta find a studio

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that only has technology that stops whatever

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that kind of thing where you're just like cosplaying

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a decade or whatever and yeah yeah and i'm not

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saying i I haven't participated in some of that

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kind of stuff in the sense of like being really

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interested in what would it be like to record

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a record on tape or whatever because computers

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were involved. I had four track cassette recorders

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but pretty quickly after that a friend of mine

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got a very early like the first affordable version

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of being able to record on a computer at home.

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I've been dealing with that kind of technology

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since early on but the Thing for me, generally

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speaking, is I like all the stuff that I've heard

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as far as past things, but I still am recognizing

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that I live right now. So I don't necessarily

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want to make a record where someone's, oh, this

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guy's a contemporary of the Beatles or something.

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I did listen to Whitney Houston when my sister

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was Jim. That influenced me. I thought Michael

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Jackson was a rock and roll singer. I didn't

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necessarily. I was like... Because I was growing

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up when he was doing, like, Bad and Thriller,

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and that stuff was... Yeah. I mean, I was like,

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that's crazy that he and Alvin and Chipmunk sing

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a lot. It's Van Halen playing guitar on that.

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Yeah. Yeah. And, again, great. Michael Jackson,

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when he's singing aggressively, it's amazing.

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It's insane. Yeah, so I generally try to... I'm

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not, like, trying to jam every genre and every

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decade and everything that's ever happened in

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the same song, but I don't go, oh, I can't do

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that. That's too... 97 or 2025 or what so it

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doesn't really you don't make it be the reason

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you do or don't do something right right there's

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certain things that unless i can find a really

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artistic songs about like cell phones or something

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i don't like there's certain words or very time

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specific things that i tend to avoid for a reason

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like lyrically yeah It's interesting, though,

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the converse of that is so many movie plots are

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now obsolete in the invention of cell phones.

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Right. If they just had a beeper, this movie

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would be over. Yeah. But, okay, so what made

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you realize that music is what you were going

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to do with your life? Or at least that you were

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going to try it? Yeah. What was the transition

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from consumer to producer? Pretty much from early

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on, I was like... One of my earliest memories

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was writing a little... As a seven -year -old,

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being like... Like a little rhyme. I know that

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the rhyme was strife and life. And I walked up

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to my mom and sang it to her, and she was just

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kind of... Huh. Like, why are you saying strife?

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Do you even know what that means? But... So...

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Pretty early on was, like, writing. Didn't know

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how songs worked at all. I just would write words

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down. But in my head, it was like... And then

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when I start writing songs, I'll already have

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all these words or something. At least know how

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to put them together. Honestly, the year that

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Kurt Cobain died, the talent show at our school,

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they were like... Because it was, like, days

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later. They were like, no bands. whatever can

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play Nirvana songs. But none of the teachers

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knew Nirvana songs. So everybody played Nirvana

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songs and just said that they wrote them. And

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then every band got up and smashed their gear

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and stuff. And I didn't sound great. No, it wasn't

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angry. Whatever the case, I looked over at my

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best friend. I was like, dude, we have to start

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a band right now. The coach was like crying because

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like hi -hats were. going like into the wood

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of the gym floor and stuff like one kid smashed

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a brand new guitar and he was as soon as he did

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he's like my dad's gonna kill me he like ran

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away for a week and i was just like this is the

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best thing i have ever seen so that was probably

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the moment that it was he really spread like

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wildfire yeah it was just like let's go like

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this is happening also it was wild to observe

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that moment where Even the cool kids were weird

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for one or two years. Longer hair, tie -dyes.

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They're telling teachers, suck it. But then all

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of a sudden, the thing flipped, and they were

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like, actually, I'm a quarterback. Let's get

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rapey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just right back into

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their old... Yeah. But it was a cool little...

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The girls like Nirvana. ...peer into the window

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of... You know, like, what if the world was completely,

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like, wild and weird? No, dog, I'm trying to

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make money. Or whatever. My dad's a lawyer. Let's

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get real. But, yeah, it was a weird, cool little

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moment to live through, for sure. And then when

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did you realize, like, you could make this your,

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like, your living or your life or at least something

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that you continue to do? And I know that hasn't

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always been the case, but. Yeah. When did you

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realize, I'm going to try and make this my thing

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and not whatever else? So after that point, it

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started all like high school, junior high, whatever

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kind of bands. And I think to whatever level,

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I was in a lot of ways the driving force in those

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bands. But it was also very that young, we're

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all in it together thing. But within that, the

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writing was really... democratic or kind of anybody

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that brought anything it got to go in and then

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but inevitably some version of the band would

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break up or someone would quit and then you were

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like left with this oh we have this like 18 minute

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long song but the third section blah blah wrote

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and they quit do we get rid of their section

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can we play i don't know so i had some moment

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where like I was like, I'm going to start writing

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just a song from the front to the end. Because

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I'd basically never been in bands that like,

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unless the whole band was in the room, you couldn't

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play through the whole song. Or you were like,

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blah, blah, blah. But then hear this, like explaining

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people like that it would be better if you could

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hear the whole thing or we can't play this section

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because it's on theremin or something. I don't

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know. And so I was like, I'm going to sit down

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and start writing a song from like. front to

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back that potentially either on a piano or guitar

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I could just play for you and so I kind of like

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gone way out into the wildness and weirdness

00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:19.159
before I ever really learned how to write a song

00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.159
but then I don't know so yeah all sudden I had

00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:24.720
the ability to play a song all the way through

00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.279
and people are like I'm into that and then it's

00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:29.799
pretty powerful to get positive reinforcement

00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:32.279
towards the front end of something because you're

00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:36.740
like is this just for me or is this I like it

00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:40.470
but To have some people that you respect like

00:14:40.470 --> 00:14:44.450
it enough to tell you and also go. Like right

00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:46.090
now, if someone brought me a song and it was

00:14:46.090 --> 00:14:48.389
just terrible, I'd just be like, oh, cool, blah,

00:14:48.450 --> 00:14:51.029
blah, blah, blah. But I'm not going to spend

00:14:51.029 --> 00:14:53.169
time trying to fix something that's unfixable.

00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:56.230
So if someone sees something in you that's good

00:14:56.230 --> 00:14:58.409
enough for them to actually give you a critique.

00:14:59.149 --> 00:15:01.210
And I grew up, my dad was a basketball coach

00:15:01.210 --> 00:15:04.250
and whatever, so I think a lot of artists, it's

00:15:04.250 --> 00:15:06.840
like they don't have the ability to hear. you're

00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:09.220
never going to be a power forward or something.

00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:11.179
Like my dad, do you want me to tell you the truth

00:15:11.179 --> 00:15:12.600
or are you going to help you get better? And

00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:14.179
I'm like, okay. And he's like, you're short,

00:15:14.259 --> 00:15:16.980
you're slow, you're whatever. But here's what

00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:19.879
you can do. You get better at that and, of course,

00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:22.580
do the other stuff as much as you can. And I

00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:25.500
think that's the downside of everybody getting

00:15:25.500 --> 00:15:28.980
a trophy. Right. Yeah. Because everybody is told

00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:30.480
that they're good at something they might not

00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.139
be good at. Yeah. And they don't know how to

00:15:33.139 --> 00:15:35.149
hear that when they do hear it. And then they

00:15:35.149 --> 00:15:37.769
just, like, crumble. It's like, oh, what? Yeah.

00:15:38.370 --> 00:15:41.309
And not only that, then they're not diverting

00:15:41.309 --> 00:15:44.129
their efforts into something they might be able

00:15:44.129 --> 00:15:46.409
to excel at. They're, like, trying to, like,

00:15:46.409 --> 00:15:48.190
flounder in this thing that they've been told

00:15:48.190 --> 00:15:52.210
they can do. Yeah. So do you think you've kind

00:15:52.210 --> 00:15:54.730
of, like, you're playing solo shows for the first

00:15:54.730 --> 00:15:58.009
time in a band's history. Yeah. So do you feel

00:15:58.009 --> 00:15:59.669
like you're going through that same experience

00:15:59.669 --> 00:16:02.649
again? Yeah, yeah. On the road? Yeah, in fact.

00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.379
As we were cleaning up the house the other day,

00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:09.519
we ended up with Tupperware bins of memorabilia

00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.299
or whatever, like articles, whatever. And it

00:16:11.299 --> 00:16:13.600
was kind of like, what is this? I was sorting

00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:15.360
through it, and there was like a pop -up quote

00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.799
in some art interview I did. And I was like,

00:16:18.860 --> 00:16:21.899
you know, the names you're in the business, when

00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:25.120
I named that band that, or I started playing

00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.360
as that, there weren't a lot of blah -biddy -blah

00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:30.899
and the blah -biddy -blahs at that time. It was

00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:34.649
like one word. Just like Bush. Yeah, but it was

00:16:34.649 --> 00:16:39.049
like The Strokes. Yeah, that was a few years

00:16:39.049 --> 00:16:40.789
later. But yeah, a singular word, a singular

00:16:40.789 --> 00:16:45.350
kind of er. And the premise was really in reference

00:16:45.350 --> 00:16:47.409
to that thing where I kept being in bands that

00:16:47.409 --> 00:16:48.929
broke up. And I was like, okay, I'm going to

00:16:48.929 --> 00:16:52.029
be able to play. And whoever's in the band or

00:16:52.029 --> 00:16:55.049
not, I can keep playing these songs. Because

00:16:55.049 --> 00:16:57.210
I had just gone through here in high school.

00:16:57.830 --> 00:17:00.110
So I'm just, I don't like this anymore. I'm going

00:17:00.110 --> 00:17:03.899
to college or whatever. And so when I read that,

00:17:03.940 --> 00:17:05.980
I was like, dang, dude, I'm just like learning

00:17:05.980 --> 00:17:11.839
the same lessons over and over. I do love being

00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.599
in a band and I do love working with people and

00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.759
whatever. But like at this point in my life,

00:17:18.859 --> 00:17:21.000
I'm at least ready to have a chunk of time where

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.900
I'm not starting over for a while. And with that,

00:17:25.900 --> 00:17:30.240
I'm trying to make people feel appreciated while

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.910
not making them. and allowing them to have the

00:17:32.910 --> 00:17:35.029
ability to be like, oh, we can't do that show

00:17:35.029 --> 00:17:38.250
or that tour because my family's vacation or

00:17:38.250 --> 00:17:40.430
something like that. Which they should be able

00:17:40.430 --> 00:17:44.650
to. I missed so much of the important family

00:17:44.650 --> 00:17:48.490
stuff in my 20s through early 40s, just being

00:17:48.490 --> 00:17:51.569
like band, music, whatever has to come first.

00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:54.750
And so like, also when you're in a band like

00:17:54.750 --> 00:17:57.470
that, them being like, can you play this show?

00:17:57.569 --> 00:17:59.970
And you're like, all right. nieces graduating

00:17:59.970 --> 00:18:01.549
and they're like yeah it's gonna cost everybody

00:18:01.549 --> 00:18:03.990
else in the band like four thousand dollars each

00:18:03.990 --> 00:18:07.690
or something you're like sorry I can't go anyways

00:18:07.690 --> 00:18:11.109
yeah yeah yeah so yeah yeah I think coming back

00:18:11.109 --> 00:18:13.230
and then being able to play the songs by myself

00:18:13.230 --> 00:18:17.670
I was just in a band for so long that like when

00:18:17.670 --> 00:18:19.630
it came time to finally do a solo show again

00:18:19.630 --> 00:18:23.690
for the first time in 15 20 years I was like

00:18:23.690 --> 00:18:26.190
oh man I don't really know how to play my songs

00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:29.140
front to back without this I'd normally stand

00:18:29.140 --> 00:18:31.119
up during the bridge and run around or whatever

00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:34.079
or like how do I make this engaging to play by

00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.599
myself and so like learning that again and then

00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:41.819
it's also given me the ability to try out new

00:18:41.819 --> 00:18:44.720
stuff in front of people versus like with the

00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.220
band a lot of times you're like someone has everyone

00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:50.359
has varying degrees of comfort of what if we

00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:53.220
fall flat in front of people which I also have

00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:57.480
learned that I while scared about it really thrive

00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.420
on yeah like this tour i went on last summer

00:19:01.420 --> 00:19:04.559
i basically just it was both like as i was traveling

00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:06.680
and on stage it's like if i think about it i

00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.940
have to do it so i didn't become careful about

00:19:09.940 --> 00:19:12.619
it i was just like living my life but like at

00:19:12.619 --> 00:19:14.480
soundcheck if i did a weird version of a song

00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:16.960
it was like okay tonight on stage i'm just gonna

00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:18.680
figure out how to play it all the way through

00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.279
like that like that version of sweatshark that

00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:24.720
i did last night yeah that was just an idea i

00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.539
had one night And then it was like, all right,

00:19:26.539 --> 00:19:29.240
here we go. And that keeps, I think that keeps

00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.859
people that know your songs interested too. That's

00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:35.839
part of why people, some people want to go see

00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:37.500
a band and they just want to hear the way it

00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:40.099
sounds on the record. But I think real music

00:19:40.099 --> 00:19:44.099
fans typically want to hear the most organic

00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:47.220
version of that song they can. Yeah. And I think

00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:50.900
like you've gotten to the root of making these

00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:54.009
songs. like new and organic again when you do

00:19:54.009 --> 00:19:57.970
that yeah i think we like jay riding the business

00:19:57.970 --> 00:20:02.130
where we were touring for at least 15 years at

00:20:02.130 --> 00:20:06.490
least 200 days a year and it's exhausting and

00:20:06.490 --> 00:20:11.069
sometimes way more than that and so that idea

00:20:11.069 --> 00:20:13.130
of hey guys how do we keep this fresh it was

00:20:13.130 --> 00:20:18.490
more like how do we stay alive yeah or like we

00:20:18.490 --> 00:20:22.369
were never on a bus we were very much into, even

00:20:22.369 --> 00:20:24.049
when I get a point when maybe people were like

00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:25.849
going, God, these guys are blowing up or successful.

00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:28.390
We were driving ourselves, like no tour manager,

00:20:28.589 --> 00:20:30.890
no, we, we would have merch guys, but the merch

00:20:30.890 --> 00:20:33.890
guys were like buds. And we were like, and they

00:20:33.890 --> 00:20:35.690
were also probably doing two or three other things

00:20:35.690 --> 00:20:38.369
for you too. Yeah. Yeah. I'd just be like, you

00:20:38.369 --> 00:20:40.490
can come along. We don't know when or how much

00:20:40.490 --> 00:20:43.329
we can pay you. If there's money left over, you'll

00:20:43.329 --> 00:20:46.549
get some. And, but it's going to be a party and

00:20:46.549 --> 00:20:51.490
free booze and find a place to stay. Next time

00:20:51.490 --> 00:20:53.849
you meet somebody. Yeah. Like, you're in your

00:20:53.849 --> 00:20:56.170
20s. Yeah, you can stay here and, like, work

00:20:56.170 --> 00:20:58.549
to buy beer, or you can go with us in the van

00:20:58.549 --> 00:21:01.349
and sling some T -shirts in at night. And it's,

00:21:01.390 --> 00:21:04.109
like, okay. We'll all share a pizza or whatever

00:21:04.109 --> 00:21:07.990
it is. Yeah. So, yeah, with that, it was just

00:21:07.990 --> 00:21:12.869
hard, maybe, to stay constantly motivated to

00:21:12.869 --> 00:21:17.809
reinvent things. But at a certain point, you

00:21:17.809 --> 00:21:19.730
become almost, like, ubiquitous as far as...

00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.460
I think where we and a lot of the people that

00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:25.299
kind of got shoved into the just stay on tour

00:21:25.299 --> 00:21:27.240
and that's how you can make money kind of version

00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.299
of being a musician, you do hit a point where

00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:31.960
then suddenly everyone's, I'll just catch them

00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:33.599
next time because they're going to be here another

00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.380
two or three times this year or definitely once

00:21:37.380 --> 00:21:40.579
a year if not their show plus they're out opening

00:21:40.579 --> 00:21:44.079
for someone plus a festival plus whatever and

00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:46.380
then if you're doing generally the same set.

00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:49.640
Do I need to see that for the 10th time or what?

00:21:50.059 --> 00:21:52.500
And, and so, yeah, that's definitely situation

00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:55.960
like house shows or changing up the whole process

00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.380
is where I'm at. Not necessarily as a sales pitch,

00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.259
but just like, it makes me more excited. And

00:22:02.259 --> 00:22:05.559
I think it makes, if you want to see what I'm

00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:08.339
doing, better see it right now because in six

00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:11.039
months I'll change it all. Or next time I come

00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:13.259
through, which might only be the time, that only

00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:14.740
time that I come through for the year. I mean,

00:22:14.740 --> 00:22:16.640
it's the only time you've been here. Yeah, I've

00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:19.930
never been here before. Yeah. Yeah. Is there

00:22:19.930 --> 00:22:22.730
anything else you could have done? Looking back,

00:22:22.930 --> 00:22:26.609
some people I feel like they have a choice. Okay,

00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:29.049
I thought you meant to be more successful. No,

00:22:29.089 --> 00:22:31.829
I don't mean it like that. Could you have done

00:22:31.829 --> 00:22:37.410
anything else with your life and been happy or

00:22:37.410 --> 00:22:39.529
successful? I don't know that anybody's happy,

00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:44.789
especially if they're an artist. If you weren't

00:22:44.789 --> 00:22:47.650
a musician, what would you do? Yeah, that's...

00:22:48.339 --> 00:22:53.000
That the points... Constantly are... Where I'm

00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.279
constantly, like, going... Is this it? Probably

00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:57.920
some weird world where I was, like, a lawyer

00:22:57.920 --> 00:23:01.400
or something. I was really... Really fascinated

00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:04.220
with law and... Had a whole different concept

00:23:04.220 --> 00:23:06.059
on it now than I did at a point where I maybe

00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:09.259
would have considered it. But I'm... I'm handy

00:23:09.259 --> 00:23:12.720
at, like, doing... Building stuff. Like, really

00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.539
into woodworking and stuff. I like... Not, like,

00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:19.170
building cabinets, but... Yeah, yeah. I can build

00:23:19.170 --> 00:23:22.190
things. I can do stuff. I got the hyper -focused

00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:25.609
superpower. For six months, I'm a pretty good

00:23:25.609 --> 00:23:29.009
electrician. I lose all that knowledge or whatever

00:23:29.009 --> 00:23:32.630
because I'm just processing things to learn how

00:23:32.630 --> 00:23:35.990
to do it. It's like the slowest version of The

00:23:35.990 --> 00:23:40.690
Matrix or something. I know electricians. It

00:23:40.690 --> 00:23:45.589
goes away. I think most people that really...

00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:47.799
Every once in a while you meet someone and you're

00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:50.559
just like, you're just like an animal. But like

00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:54.200
a lot of times, the people that really are good

00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:57.880
at anything, I don't think there's that many

00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:01.680
people that are actually good at anything. Yeah,

00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:05.279
yeah, yeah. Those people could be good at anything.

00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:08.319
And so I'm not saying I could be a brain surgeon

00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:13.700
or something like that, but I think had I become

00:24:13.700 --> 00:24:16.920
a lawyer. And had I worked as much and as hard

00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.319
as I did and have and still do at music, I would

00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:24.259
own like, I'd be a partner. You know what I mean?

00:24:24.380 --> 00:24:26.720
What is the real question? Would you have, could

00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.640
you have worked as hard at that as you do something

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:35.859
that is... I'm generally unemployable. So I guess

00:24:35.859 --> 00:24:39.079
the answer probably is no. But because I was

00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.599
always the guy that had my regular job. I was

00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.369
never like trying to... become the boss i don't

00:24:45.369 --> 00:24:47.150
know i never really jumped in and said let me

00:24:47.150 --> 00:24:51.769
just blow these guys away i i as a teenager like

00:24:51.769 --> 00:24:55.529
first of all you're an idiot like the regional

00:24:55.529 --> 00:24:59.170
manager of schlotzky's deli is not the sharpest

00:24:59.170 --> 00:25:02.589
knife in the drawer and then also your parents

00:25:02.589 --> 00:25:06.609
own the business so we all know why yeah yeah

00:25:06.609 --> 00:25:09.890
yeah and then but i was yeah definitely just

00:25:09.890 --> 00:25:12.140
the guys I'm just going to keep my head down.

00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.259
I'm not trying to, like, I don't want to make

00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.259
this the most profitable McDonald's in the country.

00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:22.480
I don't care. This place sucks. Most of the people

00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.680
in here suck. I almost never told people that

00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.279
I go by Rod or Roddy when I had a job. Almost

00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:30.660
all my bosses called me Jonathan because I did

00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.559
not care to even pretend like this was going

00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.440
to be a place I cared about or that it was like,

00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.440
this is to get some money to go over here and

00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.210
actually do the. thing that i do i was never

00:25:41.210 --> 00:25:44.869
though i love you corporate america probably

00:25:44.869 --> 00:25:49.210
the answer is no i would have sucked and generally

00:25:49.210 --> 00:25:51.309
have sucked at being an employee i was kind of

00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:55.990
like money's not real this place isn't real like

00:25:55.990 --> 00:25:58.849
i don't care about it yeah i think i think what

00:25:58.849 --> 00:26:01.769
you said is interesting like the people that

00:26:01.769 --> 00:26:05.069
are good at something could probably be good

00:26:05.069 --> 00:26:08.730
at a lot of things But I think the motivation

00:26:08.730 --> 00:26:14.150
to do that is really the difference between,

00:26:14.470 --> 00:26:18.269
like, you have a different perspective on the

00:26:18.269 --> 00:26:22.089
law now. Like, you might, if you become a lawyer

00:26:22.089 --> 00:26:24.250
and you still gain that new perspective, and

00:26:24.250 --> 00:26:27.269
I don't necessarily know what that is, but you

00:26:27.269 --> 00:26:30.289
might end up regretting being a lawyer. Yeah.

00:26:30.349 --> 00:26:33.829
Whereas I feel like... I regret being a musician.

00:26:34.130 --> 00:26:37.619
No. I mean, there's moments that actually, that

00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:39.339
leads me to something I wanted to talk about.

00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:40.779
I mean, there was a time where you wanted to

00:26:40.779 --> 00:26:44.740
call it quits. Right. Well, yeah, yeah. But it

00:26:44.740 --> 00:26:48.859
was a pretty recent time. Yeah. And about a year

00:26:48.859 --> 00:26:53.559
ago. Yeah. And what, I guess two things, like

00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:55.920
one is like the realization that you probably

00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:57.920
can't do anything else. Is that part of what

00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.920
brought you back to it? A little bit. And also

00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:05.039
like what, what kind of caused that? To begin

00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.140
with, is it the same kind of things that you've

00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:09.259
always dealt with or was there something new?

00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:14.180
I think it was the culmination of whatever led

00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:18.440
to Jerry and the business ending straight into

00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.779
COVID. Because the last business show was Thanksgiving

00:27:22.779 --> 00:27:27.680
2019. Yeah. So straight into COVID, which was

00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:31.950
wild. And then like inside of that. Especially

00:27:31.950 --> 00:27:34.549
with the landscape of the way musicians make

00:27:34.549 --> 00:27:37.650
their money these days. Yeah. And even that sort

00:27:37.650 --> 00:27:41.170
of thing that the music industry really pushed

00:27:41.170 --> 00:27:44.470
on probably my crew of people for the first time.

00:27:45.109 --> 00:27:47.250
Don't worry if everyone's stealing your music.

00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:49.569
They'll become your fans and you can sell them

00:27:49.569 --> 00:27:51.930
tickets and whatever. And all of a sudden it

00:27:51.930 --> 00:27:53.630
was like, oh, what happens when we can't sell

00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:57.910
them tickets? Yeah. Mike Cooley once said, we're

00:27:57.910 --> 00:28:00.990
traveling t -shirt salesmen. Yeah. It's hard

00:28:00.990 --> 00:28:03.309
to do that if you can't travel. That sentiment

00:28:03.309 --> 00:28:06.710
actually was one of the final straws for me of

00:28:06.710 --> 00:28:11.170
all the way burnt to the end of 2024, where,

00:28:11.329 --> 00:28:17.170
I'm sorry, 2023, going into 2024, just this,

00:28:17.250 --> 00:28:19.890
everyone, all these guys, here's how to make

00:28:19.890 --> 00:28:21.490
your career, blah, blah, blah. You just need

00:28:21.490 --> 00:28:23.329
to accept that if you're a musician, you're a

00:28:23.329 --> 00:28:25.130
traveling t -shirt salesman or whatever. You're

00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:27.690
in the t -shirt business. And I was like, dude,

00:28:27.970 --> 00:28:31.250
that is not what I want. that's not how I want

00:28:31.250 --> 00:28:35.390
to go about this. But it kind of was one of those

00:28:35.390 --> 00:28:38.250
things where I think I, you have to just keep

00:28:38.250 --> 00:28:41.950
at it. And the sort of, I heard some point it

00:28:41.950 --> 00:28:43.569
was like, do you want to make it in the music

00:28:43.569 --> 00:28:45.190
industry? Don't quit before you make it in the

00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:48.910
music industry or don't have a plan B because

00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:50.670
if you have a plan B, you're absolutely going

00:28:50.670 --> 00:28:52.450
to take it, which I never really had a viable

00:28:52.450 --> 00:28:55.529
plan B. And there were a lot of times where it

00:28:55.529 --> 00:28:58.049
was literally like, If I had a college degree

00:28:58.049 --> 00:29:00.470
and I could pivot in one year, have a specialized

00:29:00.470 --> 00:29:05.849
something to move to, I probably would have done

00:29:05.849 --> 00:29:08.210
it. Don't know that I was stuck with it or been

00:29:08.210 --> 00:29:10.809
happy to do it, but I probably would have taken

00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:12.869
it a few times. And it was just like, I got no

00:29:12.869 --> 00:29:15.430
option. This is what I got. It doesn't seem like

00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:17.529
you would ever stop writing songs, though. Yeah,

00:29:17.609 --> 00:29:20.170
no. There's moments where I had fantasies about,

00:29:20.309 --> 00:29:24.029
screw it, I'm going to sell everything I don't.

00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:27.539
touch instruments anymore and people being like,

00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:30.059
why don't you do this? Or at least sing a song

00:29:30.059 --> 00:29:32.079
or something or do it for yourself and just being

00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:35.140
like, no, I'm done with music. So we've talked

00:29:35.140 --> 00:29:38.920
off of the podcast a little bit about this creative

00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:44.400
drive or the curiosity that I think plagues a

00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.700
lot of artists from visual artists to musicians

00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:51.240
to comedians to how would you get that expression

00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:57.170
out if you weren't doing music? I used to write

00:29:57.170 --> 00:30:01.490
something like short stories and then never really

00:30:01.490 --> 00:30:04.730
thought I would put them out. And so take a short

00:30:04.730 --> 00:30:06.609
story and go like, how do I condense this down?

00:30:06.890 --> 00:30:10.970
That's the folly of the nature of probably like

00:30:10.970 --> 00:30:13.869
my makeup is like other times when I've been

00:30:13.869 --> 00:30:15.170
like, maybe I don't want to do music anymore.

00:30:15.230 --> 00:30:19.170
Maybe I'll become a screenwriter or start writing

00:30:19.170 --> 00:30:22.789
novels or something. But instead of I have some

00:30:22.789 --> 00:30:26.190
practical, normal let me trade my time for a

00:30:26.190 --> 00:30:28.269
dollar bill kind of skill set or something like

00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:35.230
that so I think I've come back down also to when

00:30:35.230 --> 00:30:37.250
I was saying like I don't want to be a t -shirt

00:30:37.250 --> 00:30:40.670
salesman part of that was selling t -shirts that

00:30:40.670 --> 00:30:45.710
I didn't like and having a lot of skin even more

00:30:45.710 --> 00:30:48.490
than that reading that the majority of people

00:30:48.490 --> 00:30:51.170
that buy records don't have a record player and

00:30:51.170 --> 00:30:53.000
like Also, the majority of people that buy band

00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:54.539
shirts don't necessarily wear the band shirts.

00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:57.200
And I appreciate the sentiment that it's like

00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:00.660
they're doing it to support art and artists that

00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:04.420
they like. But I was like really turned off by

00:31:04.420 --> 00:31:06.359
the idea. I was like, so I'm just making junk

00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.579
that like eventually someone goes, we cleaned

00:31:09.579 --> 00:31:11.980
the house five times. Is it time to get rid of

00:31:11.980 --> 00:31:14.539
this thing? My stuff's just more stuff for the

00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:16.740
storage unit or something until it finally goes

00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:18.720
in the landfill. I see what you mean. And then

00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.509
like on top of that, though. As an artist, to

00:31:22.509 --> 00:31:25.829
make enough to take on tour, you're putting a

00:31:25.829 --> 00:31:30.069
lot of skin in the game up front. And at any

00:31:30.069 --> 00:31:31.789
given point, people would just be like, yeah,

00:31:31.849 --> 00:31:33.730
I don't want to buy that. Or whatever. You're

00:31:33.730 --> 00:31:37.009
stuck with this stuff. Or there could be economic

00:31:37.009 --> 00:31:38.869
collapse and all of a sudden nobody has money

00:31:38.869 --> 00:31:42.730
to buy anything. Sure. Yeah, yeah. You're constantly

00:31:42.730 --> 00:31:47.670
vulnerable to that stuff. Yeah. So I was going

00:31:47.670 --> 00:31:50.019
through all these different things. These slow,

00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:55.339
just train wrecks of just life in general, my

00:31:55.339 --> 00:31:58.079
individual and the general experience. Like I

00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:03.180
said, COVID, whatever. And basically, I get hit,

00:32:03.339 --> 00:32:07.000
go down one knee, and just that drive, you can't

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:11.779
stop. Drag myself back up, keep going. And finally,

00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:15.720
end of 2023, going into 2024, it was just like,

00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:17.819
I was like, you know what? I'm just going to

00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:23.359
stay down. and sit in my annihilation and observe

00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:27.339
it as best I can and be fine with it if that's

00:32:27.339 --> 00:32:29.859
where I land. Your priorities are a lot different

00:32:29.859 --> 00:32:31.740
than they were a decade ago, too, right? Like,

00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:34.720
you're a father. Yeah. You've got other people

00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:38.259
that rely on you to do things that, whereas,

00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:41.440
like, for a long time, you were just doing it

00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:43.039
for you, and that's all you had to take care

00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:46.740
of. And as somebody who... who is also a parent,

00:32:46.819 --> 00:32:52.460
it changes things a lot. And being a parent does

00:32:52.460 --> 00:32:56.160
change everything. In a lot of ways, it's hard

00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:57.759
for me to remember a time before my kids were

00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:01.059
born. Or I place them in the memory. It's like,

00:33:01.180 --> 00:33:03.059
when my daughter was there when I was eight or

00:33:03.059 --> 00:33:06.500
something. But at the same time, I'm still human

00:33:06.500 --> 00:33:09.720
and entirely self -obsessed and selfish and whatever.

00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.690
Yeah. And so... I'm here to do everything I can

00:33:15.690 --> 00:33:18.809
for my kids. And definitely it's changed my headspace

00:33:18.809 --> 00:33:21.049
of like, how long do I want to be out? My wife's

00:33:21.049 --> 00:33:22.950
also a musician. So we also very much in our,

00:33:23.029 --> 00:33:25.769
the DNA of our relationship was being apart.

00:33:26.250 --> 00:33:29.789
Yeah. And so it can only take so much of each

00:33:29.789 --> 00:33:33.970
other. Yeah. Yeah. And inevitably early on, I'd

00:33:33.970 --> 00:33:35.710
be like, Oh, I'm gone for six months. I'm back

00:33:35.710 --> 00:33:37.450
these two weeks. And she's like, I got to get

00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:40.109
those two weeks. And you're like, Oh my gosh.

00:33:40.809 --> 00:33:43.299
I really processed it a lot. okay i'm just like

00:33:43.299 --> 00:33:47.559
a sailor i'm just like old like i'm on a wooden

00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:50.640
boat just bopping from place to place and every

00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.839
once in a while i'll come back and i go it was

00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:59.519
a bad year sorry go back out and fun way to live

00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:04.000
till it's not or till i think that was even something

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:08.760
i was seeing like it exploded A lot of my friends,

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.960
who also were either bandmates or whatever, or

00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:17.599
buddies on tour, I was like, man, I'm keeping

00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:22.079
it together for the most part, but am I built

00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:26.039
differently that I can? But by way of inviting

00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:29.340
other people in to do it, I'm actively destroying

00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:32.139
them or something. The road destroys people.

00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:36.179
Yeah, it's crazy. And for some people, it's...

00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.000
six months and some people it's 10 years but

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:42.159
at some point you do have to go how do you know

00:34:42.159 --> 00:34:47.460
when your limit has been reached i've been the

00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:50.559
one of the main qualities for any human that

00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:54.159
i actually like look for and i go okay this is

00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:57.960
not like you're worthwhile or not but i meet

00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:01.460
so few people that actually can and will change

00:35:01.460 --> 00:35:04.760
i think the ability to actually actively change

00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:07.679
is it's one of the hardest things to do superhero

00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.539
level find out new information think about it

00:35:10.539 --> 00:35:15.940
go i was wrong now i change and it is a rare

00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:19.639
i'm not the best at it but i have some sliver

00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:23.179
of that ability and so like my i think but i

00:35:23.179 --> 00:35:25.880
do think it takes us it's not just information

00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:29.219
probably it's like information and pain like

00:35:29.219 --> 00:35:33.619
somewhere in there is the sweet spot where you're

00:35:33.619 --> 00:35:37.820
like Oh, I can just like, I got Steven Seagal

00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:39.900
just gently pushing my energy in a different

00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:41.900
direction and sometimes it's like, oh man, I

00:35:41.900 --> 00:35:46.739
ran into that brick wall and turned to dust and

00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:48.179
then I have to like rebuild the whole thing.

00:35:49.420 --> 00:35:52.119
Yeah, so I don't, I'm not like an expert at it.

00:35:52.539 --> 00:35:56.739
I find out after the fact. Yeah, yeah. But you

00:35:56.739 --> 00:35:59.199
try to learn from it and integrate that information.

00:35:59.579 --> 00:36:01.960
Like a lot of people, I would never wish COVID

00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:07.150
to happen. I can say that a lot of things currently

00:36:07.150 --> 00:36:09.969
in my life that are positive came out of it.

00:36:10.469 --> 00:36:13.809
Yeah, I'd have to say the same thing. For me

00:36:13.809 --> 00:36:15.889
personally, that was one of those times where

00:36:15.889 --> 00:36:19.010
I did change a lot and was really reflective

00:36:19.010 --> 00:36:21.590
and was able to admit what I was wrong about.

00:36:22.889 --> 00:36:24.530
And I think that was true for a lot of people.

00:36:25.070 --> 00:36:28.630
When everything gets shut off and you're just

00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:32.300
stuck with yourself. Man, a lot of people don't

00:36:32.300 --> 00:36:33.840
get better until they're tired of their own shit.

00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:36.260
And when you can't put that shit on other people,

00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:39.559
you get tired of it a lot quicker. Yeah, I was

00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:41.639
like, I travel around and have the same party

00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:45.320
30 times. It's a lot less sad than if you try

00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:47.480
to have that same party in your house 30 days

00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:51.139
in a row. Starts to smell bad. Yeah, it sucks.

00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:57.739
But, yeah, the COVID thing just really, I know

00:36:57.739 --> 00:37:01.000
a lot of relationships didn't make it. It was

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:06.119
definitely wild to process myself, my relationship

00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.719
with my kid. I only now have two, but at the

00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:12.059
time it was just the one. And then the relationship

00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:16.079
with my wife. Discovered meditation in a real

00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:20.579
way then. And was able to tie it back to why

00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:25.559
do I feel... For me, I've described it for a

00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:28.539
long time without knowing what it was. The best

00:37:28.539 --> 00:37:30.659
shows are ones... I know that I had a good show.

00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.039
I walk off stage and I already basically can't

00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:36.199
remember the show because it was just happening.

00:37:37.179 --> 00:37:40.820
You were truly present. Yeah. Whatever was happening

00:37:40.820 --> 00:37:43.260
was happening. Not that I didn't make mistakes

00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:45.500
or do something bad. I feel like you had a moment

00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:48.460
like that last night during Wanting. Yeah. During

00:37:48.460 --> 00:37:50.699
the Wanting. Afterwards, you were like, I was

00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:53.300
so lost in it that I don't even know if I played

00:37:53.300 --> 00:37:56.239
the right chords. I know after the fact I stumbled

00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:58.389
through some chords, but it was like... One of

00:37:58.389 --> 00:38:02.010
the first times I really felt the weight of the

00:38:02.010 --> 00:38:04.530
song and the way I did kind of initially writing

00:38:04.530 --> 00:38:07.250
it. And I think that came through. The room was

00:38:07.250 --> 00:38:10.710
electrified. Yeah. And I think that's why. Yeah.

00:38:11.010 --> 00:38:14.369
I think you being present in that way and anytime

00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:17.329
an artist can get to that place where they're

00:38:17.329 --> 00:38:21.969
just there. Yeah. That's the goal, right? Yeah.

00:38:21.989 --> 00:38:24.130
And to get the audience there too. This is what

00:38:24.130 --> 00:38:27.320
I was getting at. All of a sudden, I'm not hitting

00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.960
that maybe 100 times, 200 times a year. Like

00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:34.559
actually a sort of zen kind of state. Didn't

00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.980
know that's what it was. Just night to night

00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:41.699
was like good show, bad show, whatever. Or good

00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:44.480
parts of a show, bad or whatever. Sometimes it's

00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:47.980
the whole time you're just in your brain. And

00:38:47.980 --> 00:38:50.500
that's why versus I can barely remember the show

00:38:50.500 --> 00:38:53.369
instantly. The bad shows, I could tell you every

00:38:53.369 --> 00:38:55.030
second of it because I was going, like, I should

00:38:55.030 --> 00:38:57.150
walk over here. Maybe I should say something.

00:38:57.349 --> 00:39:00.769
Maybe, like, what's the next chord? Whatever.

00:39:01.030 --> 00:39:05.090
And totally getting out in front of myself two

00:39:05.090 --> 00:39:07.750
or three seconds and, like, planning what I was

00:39:07.750 --> 00:39:09.869
going to do or something like that. And it just

00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:14.409
sucks. Not really realizing that it's a lot of

00:39:14.409 --> 00:39:17.969
the same thing with meditation. You start to

00:39:17.969 --> 00:39:19.750
see the thoughts come in, and it's not that the

00:39:19.750 --> 00:39:22.010
thoughts are bad. You just go, like... All right.

00:39:22.469 --> 00:39:24.530
I'm going to come back to just observing and

00:39:24.530 --> 00:39:27.730
being here instead of I have to pay this bill

00:39:27.730 --> 00:39:30.070
or I'm fantasizing about a problem that I have

00:39:30.070 --> 00:39:33.690
or something. And so when that stops happening

00:39:33.690 --> 00:39:39.329
as much, that's a sign for you. Yeah, but I just

00:39:39.329 --> 00:39:42.530
didn't realize that it was that. It was just

00:39:42.530 --> 00:39:47.250
naturally taking me to a place where my brain

00:39:47.250 --> 00:39:50.940
went from splintered. a hundred different ways

00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:54.960
at any given time to pull together and body mind

00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:58.599
everything just it's weird to describe one of

00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:03.820
those shows as calm but instead of like i said

00:40:03.820 --> 00:40:07.599
the lack of chaos did i pay that bill you know

00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:10.599
like bad moments in shows i'm literally like

00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:12.880
having 17 conversations in my head at the same

00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:16.739
time where i messed up last night on this part

00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:20.409
why is that guy over there look like he's sniffing

00:40:20.409 --> 00:40:24.150
a fart like why isn't this person dancing oh

00:40:24.150 --> 00:40:26.889
i wonder if i wonder how the wife and kids are

00:40:26.889 --> 00:40:30.269
like all that going on i think at a given moment

00:40:30.269 --> 00:40:32.449
if you could broadcast that to people they'd

00:40:32.449 --> 00:40:35.530
be like how the hell is this guy playing anything

00:40:35.530 --> 00:40:38.469
yeah yeah and on top of that i don't actually

00:40:38.469 --> 00:40:41.789
know anything about music so every time i hit

00:40:41.789 --> 00:40:44.510
the right chord it's yes that's gonna be good

00:40:44.510 --> 00:40:47.400
for the confidence yeah yeah um Well, you obviously

00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:50.780
also use humor like just talking to you, spending

00:40:50.780 --> 00:40:53.719
time with you, and read another interview. Like,

00:40:53.739 --> 00:40:57.579
you're a funny motherfucker. You obviously, humor

00:40:57.579 --> 00:41:01.139
is part of your coping with the world, right?

00:41:01.780 --> 00:41:04.900
And I think you write some really funny lyrics

00:41:04.900 --> 00:41:07.460
sometimes, too. Is that intentional, or do you

00:41:07.460 --> 00:41:09.800
ever write something and you're like, I want

00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:11.659
this to be funny, or does it just come out that

00:41:11.659 --> 00:41:14.800
way? I don't know if I've ever written anything

00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:17.150
in gauntlet. people are gonna chuckle and fall

00:41:17.150 --> 00:41:20.510
on the ground or something maybe clever is a

00:41:20.510 --> 00:41:24.630
better word yeah i people like randy newman or

00:41:24.630 --> 00:41:28.110
wherever where you're like or john prine or i

00:41:28.110 --> 00:41:30.449
was talking about my buddy johnny fritz yeah

00:41:30.449 --> 00:41:33.269
yeah johnny corndog these people that inside

00:41:33.269 --> 00:41:37.849
of humor i think is a lot of the same stuff that's

00:41:37.849 --> 00:41:39.769
good songwriting comes from where you're like

00:41:39.769 --> 00:41:44.219
observing stuff yeah You can say it plainly,

00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:46.360
and sometimes that's powerful, and then sometimes

00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:51.960
you can say it in a humorous way. Growing up

00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:55.739
in church, it would be like, my favorite people

00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:58.360
were the people that a lot of times got discounted

00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:03.559
because they were clever and funny. I do it a

00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:06.000
lot in a solo show where it's like, tell a stupid

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.059
story and then drop a heavy song. Yeah, yeah.

00:42:09.219 --> 00:42:10.480
So everybody's giggling, and then all of a sudden

00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:13.960
they're like, what? I guess it's dynamics. I

00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:19.400
don't know, but you have, but I always, it wasn't

00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:21.920
just that they, it was kind of like, if this

00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:24.300
guy takes himself really serious, for whatever

00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:26.920
reason, everyone else assumes he's serious and

00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:30.179
smart. Whereas the, but maybe they're ineffective

00:42:30.179 --> 00:42:33.480
at actually doing anything. Whereas to me, the

00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:38.239
people that can like tell a joke and inside the

00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:40.440
joke or right after the joke, there's like also

00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:43.739
this serious nugget. You're more open. You're

00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:48.219
more available. Yeah. And I would say the best

00:42:48.219 --> 00:42:52.079
jokes come from the most uncomfortable places.

00:42:53.179 --> 00:42:58.559
If I'm being honest about something that I'm

00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:01.539
maybe not even wanting to share with people,

00:43:01.659 --> 00:43:05.519
finding a way to share that in a way that I'm

00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:08.860
ultimately comfortable with, those are usually

00:43:08.860 --> 00:43:12.250
the best jokes. Yeah. And probably the best songs

00:43:12.250 --> 00:43:15.670
too, I would think. You're like hesitant to put

00:43:15.670 --> 00:43:18.510
these ideas out there. Yeah. Do you know the

00:43:18.510 --> 00:43:25.230
concept of laughter is like an inch off the mark

00:43:25.230 --> 00:43:28.869
of a fear response? Yeah. And what are we afraid

00:43:28.869 --> 00:43:31.670
of? Things that either we don't know or we weren't

00:43:31.670 --> 00:43:35.829
expecting. But then we're humans and what are

00:43:35.829 --> 00:43:37.389
we talking about? We're talking about ourselves.

00:43:37.489 --> 00:43:40.480
So the idea of... either you're talking about

00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:43.559
something someone thought no one else had ever

00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.380
gone through. So they're surprised by the fact

00:43:46.380 --> 00:43:48.900
that you know about them in a way that they,

00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:52.500
you know, have never shared. Or you literally

00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:54.360
are holding up a mirror in a way that someone,

00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:56.519
it's like the first time someone sees their ass

00:43:56.519 --> 00:43:58.059
or something. It's like, it looks like that?

00:43:58.860 --> 00:44:04.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in there is, yeah, you're

00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:09.840
like potentially also like people, if you miss

00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.300
the mark you are actually scaring them and then

00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:16.219
when they get scared it's anger or let's fight

00:44:16.219 --> 00:44:20.340
yeah or i run away so yeah you're right on the

00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:23.699
edge of like doing something that changes the

00:44:23.699 --> 00:44:26.780
whole situation also i just think the idea of

00:44:26.780 --> 00:44:31.539
say i don't and also i never i'm never on stage

00:44:31.539 --> 00:44:34.340
with banter being like this will be funny i will

00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:37.170
make someone laugh I think the idea that someone

00:44:37.170 --> 00:44:40.170
gets up and goes, I know it's funny. I'll say

00:44:40.170 --> 00:44:44.449
it. And then people will laugh is like the wildest,

00:44:44.449 --> 00:44:50.429
scariest thing. I can even get up and do like

00:44:50.429 --> 00:44:53.750
a sad song and know it's sad. And then people

00:44:53.750 --> 00:44:55.869
can either be like, this guy's playing to the

00:44:55.869 --> 00:45:00.130
crowd or I don't relate or whatever. But to get

00:45:00.130 --> 00:45:03.829
up and be like, this is funny. And then someone

00:45:03.829 --> 00:45:07.309
go, no, it's not. Neil Brennan describes it as

00:45:07.309 --> 00:45:09.250
putting yourself through a car accident every

00:45:09.250 --> 00:45:13.010
night. Yeah. Doing stand -up comedy. Yeah. Which,

00:45:13.070 --> 00:45:15.610
have you ever wanted to do stand -up comedy?

00:45:15.690 --> 00:45:17.489
Is that ever something that you, that ever crossed

00:45:17.489 --> 00:45:20.409
your mind? When I was young, there was, it was

00:45:20.409 --> 00:45:23.750
basically like music, outdoor stuff, and comedy.

00:45:23.869 --> 00:45:27.829
So me and my buds were, I never was like, and

00:45:27.829 --> 00:45:32.239
so let me, we did, we did like bits. Early on,

00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:35.559
like BHS or whatever, camcorder stuff we had,

00:45:35.659 --> 00:45:39.480
we'd write ridiculous things and, I don't know,

00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.619
make a right turn instead of a left turn, butterfly

00:45:42.619 --> 00:45:47.119
effect stuff. Could have chased that down. Yeah,

00:45:47.139 --> 00:45:50.360
yeah, yeah. Or was like obsessed with Saturday

00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.320
Night Live and all that kind of stuff. So somewhere

00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:55.679
in the same fantasy, I don't want to play music,

00:45:55.699 --> 00:45:57.880
possibly was like, I'd love to be on Saturday

00:45:57.880 --> 00:46:01.059
Night Live. Never. having actually ever done

00:46:01.059 --> 00:46:05.880
that stuff I don't I don't know if I know I have

00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:08.440
the skill set to do that thing where you like

00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:11.920
actually sit down and I'm good in conversation

00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:16.579
at being shocking or surprising or silly or funny

00:46:16.579 --> 00:46:18.800
or witty or whatever I feel like that's a different

00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:23.199
skill than say I don't know I feel so much of

00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:24.820
comedy like we were just talking about is observation

00:46:24.820 --> 00:46:28.469
I'm good at observing things yeah yeah but I

00:46:28.469 --> 00:46:31.670
don't know if my processor is built to turn them

00:46:31.670 --> 00:46:34.369
totally into jokes. I think the way it works

00:46:34.369 --> 00:46:37.030
for me, and you saw it at one point this weekend,

00:46:37.150 --> 00:46:41.070
it's like most of my jokes do come up conversationally.

00:46:41.070 --> 00:46:44.789
Yeah. The trick and the struggle is like, A,

00:46:44.909 --> 00:46:48.030
remembering that joke, writing it down, preserving

00:46:48.030 --> 00:46:50.929
that moment. But then figuring out how to get

00:46:50.929 --> 00:46:53.429
there, that's like organically on stage. Yeah.

00:46:53.710 --> 00:46:56.369
And sometimes you can't. Sometimes that joke

00:46:56.369 --> 00:46:59.230
will only exist in that moment. And that's fine

00:46:59.230 --> 00:47:03.210
too. I do think there is this similar drive between

00:47:03.210 --> 00:47:06.949
musicians and comedians. And maybe that's what

00:47:06.949 --> 00:47:09.289
the core of this podcast is going to end up being

00:47:09.289 --> 00:47:13.590
about in general. I think most comedians want

00:47:13.590 --> 00:47:17.150
to be rock stars. I think most really good songwriters

00:47:17.150 --> 00:47:20.510
are pretty fucking funny. And I think you're

00:47:20.510 --> 00:47:23.489
right. The observational... And not even just

00:47:23.489 --> 00:47:25.539
being an observational... observing yourself

00:47:25.539 --> 00:47:29.800
too not just the outside but there's something

00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:33.599
that's it's the same fire and as someone who

00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:35.739
felt like they belonged in this world for years

00:47:35.739 --> 00:47:37.639
and years and years and never i can't play guitar

00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:40.860
i can't sing more than like a couple of karaoke

00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:44.400
songs yeah but i always felt like this is where

00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.920
i belong yeah and then and i think that's what

00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:50.099
happens with comedians is like they They feel

00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:51.820
like they don't belong anywhere except this one

00:47:51.820 --> 00:47:53.780
place that they don't even necessarily have talent.

00:47:53.980 --> 00:47:57.059
And then they go crazy. And then they start making

00:47:57.059 --> 00:47:59.159
jokes about it. And then they finally become...

00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:03.980
But I also think comedians and bands are hanging

00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:07.320
out. They're just like... They're cut from the

00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:11.500
same cloth. Yeah, I think it's... It is potentially

00:48:11.500 --> 00:48:14.199
very similar or it is the same people or it is

00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:17.760
maybe somebody who just gets their kicks punishing

00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.099
themselves a different way. And some songwriters

00:48:21.099 --> 00:48:23.960
can't sing, and that never stopped them. Yeah,

00:48:23.980 --> 00:48:26.260
yeah. Some comedians are not funny, and they

00:48:26.260 --> 00:48:29.179
are very successful. That actually brings me,

00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:31.099
and I know you've got to get on the road here,

00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:32.480
so we're going to wrap this up here in a minute,

00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.860
but I think the thing that's unique about comedy

00:48:35.860 --> 00:48:38.480
that is maybe not true for any other kind of

00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:41.900
art is, and it goes back to what you were talking

00:48:41.900 --> 00:48:45.320
about, it's just a hair off of fear. It's an

00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:48.460
involuntary response. So I don't think Jeff Dunham

00:48:48.460 --> 00:48:51.239
is funny. Right. But he's a funny motherfucker.

00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:54.800
Like, he makes rooms of people laugh. And there's

00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:59.079
something about that that is objective in a way

00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:01.199
that I don't know any other art can be. Like,

00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.679
I'm just interested to see what you think about

00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.800
that. I do think, so, like this thing that I'm

00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.420
doing, the house show thing. On paper, there's

00:49:10.420 --> 00:49:13.219
another thing that I do that, or if you took

00:49:13.219 --> 00:49:15.460
a picture of it, looked at the gear I brought,

00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.000
the situation, the whole thing, you'd be like,

00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:22.010
those are the same thing. But like, for a chunk

00:49:22.010 --> 00:49:24.190
of money, I will play a private show. And the

00:49:24.190 --> 00:49:25.809
private show, I don't care if it's you, I don't

00:49:25.809 --> 00:49:27.869
care if it's you and 100 of your friends. At

00:49:27.869 --> 00:49:29.650
a certain point, the price will change because

00:49:29.650 --> 00:49:34.489
I can bring this and it's loud enough for 50

00:49:34.489 --> 00:49:36.489
to 100 people. You're like, oh, I'm going to

00:49:36.489 --> 00:49:38.690
have a 5 ,000 person party or something. It'd

00:49:38.690 --> 00:49:41.130
be like, okay, we got to talk about bigger production

00:49:41.130 --> 00:49:43.269
stuff or whatever. But generally, it would look

00:49:43.269 --> 00:49:46.070
the same to an outside person. But in one of

00:49:46.070 --> 00:49:49.449
those scenarios, I'm playing to one person and

00:49:49.449 --> 00:49:53.150
49 of their friends are watching that person

00:49:53.150 --> 00:49:57.170
watch me. So when I walk out on stage or I sing

00:49:57.170 --> 00:50:01.309
this song or that or make a statement, this guy

00:50:01.309 --> 00:50:04.389
is going, I can't believe this. I'm looking at

00:50:04.389 --> 00:50:08.730
their friends and their friends are like, I can't

00:50:08.730 --> 00:50:11.789
believe this. And they're like, we can or whatever.

00:50:12.650 --> 00:50:17.650
I walk in their room. 50 fans that also have

00:50:17.650 --> 00:50:21.510
seen me multiple times in a 2000 seat or whatever

00:50:21.510 --> 00:50:24.730
and they're like i can't all 50 people going

00:50:24.730 --> 00:50:28.829
i can't believe this it turns everything i say

00:50:28.829 --> 00:50:32.070
into something funny or clever or reactive versus

00:50:32.070 --> 00:50:35.869
i guess my point is i don't know necessarily

00:50:35.869 --> 00:50:38.449
why certain people get over some hump and then

00:50:38.449 --> 00:50:40.449
they have this thing where like their people

00:50:40.449 --> 00:50:43.610
show up And then potentially that can feed into

00:50:43.610 --> 00:50:45.670
more and more of their people showing up. But

00:50:45.670 --> 00:50:48.570
once someone has said, I like this, it's like

00:50:48.570 --> 00:50:52.829
they want to like it. So it makes, you sit there

00:50:52.829 --> 00:50:55.429
just like hoping that your favorite musician

00:50:55.429 --> 00:50:58.070
says something that you can go, whoa, or laugh

00:50:58.070 --> 00:51:02.389
at, or go, oh my God. Versus even in a scenario

00:51:02.389 --> 00:51:04.929
of music lovers, if you're the opener, you don't

00:51:04.929 --> 00:51:07.050
have the same power as the headliner. Yeah, yeah.

00:51:07.250 --> 00:51:09.130
And I'm sure it's the same with comedians or

00:51:09.130 --> 00:51:12.030
whatever, where it's. no one's trying to like

00:51:12.030 --> 00:51:14.250
what you do or no one's trying to laugh at what

00:51:14.250 --> 00:51:16.710
you say. And all of a sudden, I think that is

00:51:16.710 --> 00:51:18.449
probably where some of these guys are. They hit

00:51:18.449 --> 00:51:21.150
some level of success and they don't really have

00:51:21.150 --> 00:51:22.849
to say funny stuff anymore. They just have to

00:51:22.849 --> 00:51:26.789
generally be themselves. People want to like

00:51:26.789 --> 00:51:30.150
it. They want to enjoy it. That's interesting.

00:51:31.570 --> 00:51:35.610
I live in this world where I'm constantly either

00:51:35.610 --> 00:51:39.250
the most important person in the room to someone.

00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:42.739
People think I'm, literally, we were just talking

00:51:42.739 --> 00:51:45.920
about replacements. I'm like, I played, J. Ryan

00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.039
Business played the last three replacement shows.

00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:51.380
Finally, after the last show, I was like, I'm

00:51:51.380 --> 00:51:52.539
going to go talk to these guys, tell them how

00:51:52.539 --> 00:51:54.219
important they were, and thank them for being

00:51:54.219 --> 00:51:56.500
on stage. And when I walked up, I was like, hey

00:51:56.500 --> 00:51:59.179
guys. And they were like, we're good. Like, they

00:51:59.179 --> 00:52:03.019
thought I was a backstage hand. Even though we

00:52:03.019 --> 00:52:05.320
played three shows. All my buddies were like,

00:52:05.380 --> 00:52:07.920
I can't believe it. You're so lucky. I'm freaking

00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:09.929
out. And this wasn't like, they didn't pluck

00:52:09.929 --> 00:52:11.710
us out of obscurity. We were doing really well

00:52:11.710 --> 00:52:15.929
at that time. Yeah, yeah. So, but, had been walking

00:52:15.929 --> 00:52:18.369
around, crowd being like, holy crap, blah, blah,

00:52:18.389 --> 00:52:21.469
blah. For Paul to look at you and just... Nah,

00:52:21.550 --> 00:52:24.650
we're good, man. We're set up. That's humbling.

00:52:24.829 --> 00:52:26.349
That's the kind of shit that brings you back

00:52:26.349 --> 00:52:28.849
down to earth at the same time. But yeah, yeah,

00:52:28.949 --> 00:52:31.849
yeah. I've been rejected by a lot of my heroes.

00:52:32.630 --> 00:52:35.070
Man, all right. You got anything you want to

00:52:35.070 --> 00:52:38.309
plug? Are you still booking these shows? If people

00:52:38.309 --> 00:52:40.070
want you to come play in their living room, can

00:52:40.070 --> 00:52:42.829
they reach out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This has been

00:52:42.829 --> 00:52:45.130
like, I was talking about last night, it's been

00:52:45.130 --> 00:52:47.550
an experiment, and I think I have, there's like

00:52:47.550 --> 00:52:49.090
a lot of people, like when I said I would do

00:52:49.090 --> 00:52:52.550
house shows, I got a lot of replies. But it was

00:52:52.550 --> 00:52:56.730
through social media, and I was, like a guy that

00:52:56.730 --> 00:52:58.329
was here last night was like, yeah, I was talking

00:52:58.329 --> 00:52:59.969
to you about a bunch, and then it fell off, and

00:52:59.969 --> 00:53:02.199
I was like, dude. That's one of the main things

00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:04.280
I've got to figure out is the communication not

00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:06.599
being through social media because I'm chatting

00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:09.139
with you and then all of a sudden I post something

00:53:09.139 --> 00:53:12.239
and it gets like 1 ,700 likes and all of a sudden

00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:15.460
our chat is buried way down this thing versus

00:53:15.460 --> 00:53:17.599
my email. And you're going to five different

00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:21.739
houses in a month or in a couple of weeks. Until

00:53:21.739 --> 00:53:24.760
you're there and seeing us or meeting with us,

00:53:24.820 --> 00:53:28.400
we're all the same kind of... There's a bunch

00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:30.920
of people that were as far down the road as the

00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:32.820
moment with you where it was like, okay, boom,

00:53:32.860 --> 00:53:36.360
let's build the ticket thing. Whatever your address

00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.320
was. And all of a sudden I was like, okay, brass

00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.739
tacks, let's get all the info. And then it's,

00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:45.719
for real, let's say a number. How many people

00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:48.420
are you comfortable having in your house? And

00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:52.440
I'm sure we had talked about it early on. And

00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:56.519
it was like, yeah, so I'm shooting for 50. And

00:53:56.519 --> 00:53:58.179
they're like, oh, no, no, no. My wife would kill

00:53:58.179 --> 00:53:59.860
me if there was more than 10 people here. I was

00:53:59.860 --> 00:54:02.739
like, dude. What are we doing? We talked for

00:54:02.739 --> 00:54:05.219
so long about this and now. And so there is.

00:54:05.480 --> 00:54:09.360
I will say there was this moment when we got

00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:11.699
to that like final stage. Yeah. Where there was

00:54:11.699 --> 00:54:13.380
like a little, I don't want to say hesitation,

00:54:13.400 --> 00:54:16.539
but it was like, okay, this is becoming real.

00:54:16.780 --> 00:54:19.639
Yeah. And I think a lot of people fantasize about

00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:21.440
the idea of having somebody play in their living

00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:23.000
room. And then when it becomes real, they're

00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:25.099
like, oh shit, can I actually do this? Yeah.

00:54:26.010 --> 00:54:27.989
And it's so different night to night. You know,

00:54:28.030 --> 00:54:29.469
I mean, you saw, I got here late last night,

00:54:29.530 --> 00:54:31.489
so I had a blast through that setup and like

00:54:31.489 --> 00:54:34.150
NASCAR freaking. Everybody was having a blast

00:54:34.150 --> 00:54:35.949
though. And I think, I think they enjoyed watching

00:54:35.949 --> 00:54:37.829
you do all your, your thing. Yeah. I mean, I

00:54:37.829 --> 00:54:40.389
guess one more peel, peel back the layers. My

00:54:40.389 --> 00:54:42.650
buddy, Sean, he's a, he's an amazing producer.

00:54:42.769 --> 00:54:45.570
He was fascinated by your keyboard setup. Oh,

00:54:45.570 --> 00:54:47.269
cool. You know, just, just watching you set it

00:54:47.269 --> 00:54:50.750
up. He thought it was awesome. So the, yeah,

00:54:50.849 --> 00:54:54.030
the, the house show thing, it's been part of

00:54:54.030 --> 00:54:57.119
it. I don't really have anything to plug, but

00:54:57.119 --> 00:55:01.280
the thing that I'm experimenting with or trying

00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:05.179
to mess with is beyond the sort of, I want to

00:55:05.179 --> 00:55:07.000
do something different. I'm trying to keep myself

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:10.739
engaged. And I don't know if entertained is the

00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:13.139
right way to put it, but if you play the same

00:55:13.139 --> 00:55:17.320
show and like, maybe let's say there's 20 variations

00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:20.539
of any given kind of setup at a club, but you've

00:55:20.539 --> 00:55:24.000
also played. every club in america like 50 times

00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:27.519
it's kind of it's sad but you can get to the

00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:28.639
point where you're just going through emotions

00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:31.880
or like on a tuesday night it's just a job and

00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:36.119
so this is even with okay i sold the tickets

00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:39.059
to the same website it is at a house but like

00:55:39.059 --> 00:55:41.760
every house has been something that was different

00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:45.039
yours split into a v and then i'm in the corner

00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:48.679
versus some shotgun house that's okay i either

00:55:48.679 --> 00:55:50.219
have to set up in the middle and there's going

00:55:50.219 --> 00:55:53.610
to be like only enough space for one person like

00:55:53.610 --> 00:55:55.550
right here and so half the show i'm gonna be

00:55:55.550 --> 00:55:58.929
looking at one guy and half the crowd is actually

00:55:58.929 --> 00:56:00.510
looking at my ass the whole time or whatever

00:56:00.510 --> 00:56:03.010
and so it's a whole different and then where

00:56:03.010 --> 00:56:06.190
do i even position the speakers like it's all

00:56:06.190 --> 00:56:12.429
let alone like time to do this show and anyways

00:56:12.429 --> 00:56:15.750
so there's the thing that's just for me okay

00:56:15.750 --> 00:56:19.369
this is making it exciting every time on top

00:56:19.369 --> 00:56:23.730
of that A lot of what I'm interested in is what

00:56:23.730 --> 00:56:26.489
we were talking about earlier, not on the podcast,

00:56:26.510 --> 00:56:29.489
about the thing that I observed and initially

00:56:29.489 --> 00:56:32.210
didn't appreciate. In fact, I was annoyed by

00:56:32.210 --> 00:56:34.690
the Drive -By Trucker shows where this crowd

00:56:34.690 --> 00:56:40.070
just talks so much. Right, right. Maybe in a

00:56:40.070 --> 00:56:42.630
two -hour set, any given person will shut up

00:56:42.630 --> 00:56:45.780
for like... Three songs because those are their

00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:49.019
song songs. Yeah, they'll be talking and you

00:56:49.019 --> 00:56:52.699
can observe me like I love that line But I just

00:56:52.699 --> 00:56:55.840
didn't really appreciate I never thought it was

00:56:55.840 --> 00:57:00.420
necessarily my a part of my Job is the right

00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:02.980
way to put it. But like the community building

00:57:02.980 --> 00:57:08.380
thing was not on my Radar in any real way. I

00:57:08.380 --> 00:57:11.789
thought yeah here's what I do I write these songs

00:57:11.789 --> 00:57:13.530
that really matter to me hopefully they matter

00:57:13.530 --> 00:57:16.610
to you and then I want to put on or be a part

00:57:16.610 --> 00:57:20.409
of a show where everyone's entranced and you

00:57:20.409 --> 00:57:23.409
have to shut up and if anyone's not shutting

00:57:23.409 --> 00:57:26.809
up and if anyone's not dancing or fully in what

00:57:26.809 --> 00:57:30.989
are we not doing yeah yeah and then people they

00:57:30.989 --> 00:57:32.769
buy the merch and then they walk out of the building

00:57:32.769 --> 00:57:34.610
and then they hopefully talk to their friends

00:57:34.610 --> 00:57:37.250
about how transformative experience or something

00:57:37.250 --> 00:57:42.429
they had not Oh, to go back to the truckers thing,

00:57:42.590 --> 00:57:46.789
like truckers like bat signal for, are you 40

00:57:46.789 --> 00:57:50.070
and drink IPA? Show up here and your people will

00:57:50.070 --> 00:57:53.630
be here. Yeah, yeah. And being progressive and

00:57:53.630 --> 00:57:55.429
stuff like that, I think is a big part of it.

00:57:55.570 --> 00:57:59.030
Yeah. I mean, I almost described it as it's like

00:57:59.030 --> 00:58:02.429
what some religions wish they had, like this

00:58:02.429 --> 00:58:04.949
imagined community of people that they know they're

00:58:04.949 --> 00:58:07.429
going to get along with. Yeah. And can trust

00:58:07.429 --> 00:58:10.340
a little bit. Even with that. Churches are falling

00:58:10.340 --> 00:58:13.139
apart. I don't really want to get into an argument

00:58:13.139 --> 00:58:14.480
about whether or not there should be churches,

00:58:14.599 --> 00:58:18.760
but we are more and more separated. And then

00:58:18.760 --> 00:58:21.900
we are going through this thing of the internet

00:58:21.900 --> 00:58:25.159
making people think they are connected. But they're

00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:31.440
not. Not that the internet can't bring you or

00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:34.460
connect you to people in a way it can. But the

00:58:34.460 --> 00:58:36.699
general way that most people are using the internet

00:58:36.699 --> 00:58:40.300
is not. making them closer to anyone yeah and

00:58:40.300 --> 00:58:44.699
so that was a big part of this there was people

00:58:44.699 --> 00:58:46.739
that kind of kept hitting me i'd be like i could

00:58:46.739 --> 00:58:49.119
i can just get you in this club i want you to

00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:50.719
come to my town once you play here we can get

00:58:50.719 --> 00:58:53.300
400 people and it's that's not what i'm doing

00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:55.340
this time right now what i'm trying to do right

00:58:55.340 --> 00:59:00.579
now is personally interact with people find out

00:59:00.579 --> 00:59:04.340
some stuff observe people and in my maybe in

00:59:04.340 --> 00:59:06.800
my own mind trying to figure out what's Because

00:59:06.800 --> 00:59:09.320
I don't know that I have that thing where it's

00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:13.199
way reductive to be like, are you 40 and IPA?

00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:16.519
No, but we understand. I don't know that I have

00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:18.579
that. I've never had that thing where everyone

00:59:18.579 --> 00:59:21.920
who walked into one of my shows is like, oh,

00:59:21.980 --> 00:59:24.920
this is all the same people. I will say, though,

00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:27.480
one of the things that first attracted me to

00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:31.019
your band was you do have a very... The people

00:59:31.019 --> 00:59:34.320
that love your band love you. You have very devout

00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:37.610
fans there. that fucking love your music yeah

00:59:37.610 --> 00:59:41.010
and and that's something that i have experienced

00:59:41.010 --> 00:59:42.989
like i've been a part of since i was a teenager

00:59:42.989 --> 00:59:46.250
i was followed a band that was had an obsessive

00:59:46.250 --> 00:59:49.190
fan base and the truckers obviously have an obsessive

00:59:49.190 --> 00:59:53.489
fan base and and to me like that's a really good

00:59:53.489 --> 00:59:56.650
marker of like somebody who's doing shit yeah

00:59:56.650 --> 00:59:59.409
i think i do think there's something that's what

00:59:59.409 --> 01:00:02.449
i'm getting at is that i don't know if there's

01:00:02.449 --> 01:00:06.170
a single thing or if it's I don't think there

01:00:06.170 --> 01:00:09.570
has to be. X, Y, and Z or whatever. The thing

01:00:09.570 --> 01:00:12.010
could be that they love their music. That could

01:00:12.010 --> 01:00:16.250
be the thing. And that is a potential thing or

01:00:16.250 --> 01:00:20.829
a possibility. But also what I was getting at,

01:00:20.909 --> 01:00:24.670
too, is I want people in that room who maybe

01:00:24.670 --> 01:00:27.429
have been in the same room to see me 20 times

01:00:27.429 --> 01:00:30.489
to potentially finally look to their left or

01:00:30.489 --> 01:00:32.889
their right and go, hey, my name's Greg, blah,

01:00:32.909 --> 01:00:35.599
blah, blah. I made a bunch of friends. I met

01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:37.559
people that had never been to my house before,

01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:40.260
and now they'll be back. I'll be fucking with

01:00:40.260 --> 01:00:44.980
those people. And that was, I had the, when I

01:00:44.980 --> 01:00:47.219
went out with my buddies, Murder by Death, and

01:00:47.219 --> 01:00:52.360
I walked around. So that tour, I literally took

01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:57.539
no merch out. It was the first real run of shows

01:00:57.539 --> 01:01:01.239
I'd done post my breakdown of, I don't know what

01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:04.559
I want to do anymore. but part of that thing

01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:06.699
I was still going to. You know what? Merch sucks.

01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:10.539
I'm not doing merch anymore. So I had a lot of,

01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:12.840
I'd play, I'd grab my stuff, and then I was just

01:01:12.840 --> 01:01:15.000
walking around, and I'd gab with a lot of people,

01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:16.480
and there were people there that were like, I

01:01:16.480 --> 01:01:18.360
don't care what this band, I care what this band

01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:21.099
does, but I actually don't care. I will always

01:01:21.099 --> 01:01:24.900
be at all their shows, I'll buy all their stuff,

01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:27.500
I'll do whatever it takes to support them, because...

01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:29.840
I met this person, and I met this person, and

01:01:29.840 --> 01:01:31.219
I met this person. We don't live in the same

01:01:31.219 --> 01:01:33.340
state, but these are my people, and I met them.

01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:36.900
That's why I go to Athens every year, man. There's

01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:40.940
differences, I think. The crowd, seeing the drop

01:01:40.940 --> 01:01:43.699
-by truckers in Athens, is the antithesis of,

01:01:43.739 --> 01:01:45.519
I think, probably what you experienced a lot

01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:47.880
on tour with them, because these are all people

01:01:47.880 --> 01:01:49.820
that, like, it's their pilgrimage, right? Sure.

01:01:49.860 --> 01:01:51.119
These are all people that are... This was that

01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:54.320
kind of event. This was in a cave. Oh, yeah.

01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:57.420
I'm going to see them in August in the caverns,

01:01:57.420 --> 01:01:59.260
man. I'm excited. I've never been there. It's

01:01:59.260 --> 01:02:02.179
incredible. They let me sleep there that night.

01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:09.260
Some sort of 80s camp staff. They were all drinking

01:02:09.260 --> 01:02:11.280
and hanging out and whatever. It was like a movie

01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:14.420
afterwards. Then they locked up and I slept there.

01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:18.820
The band plays, I think... to that crowd in a

01:02:18.820 --> 01:02:20.480
different way. Like their shows are special,

01:02:20.699 --> 01:02:22.860
but a big part of why we all go there is to see

01:02:22.860 --> 01:02:26.039
each other. Sure. And this thing, I was like,

01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:28.480
Adam, because Adam's a really clever dude. And

01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:30.980
I was like, you're not on the Caverns thing.

01:02:31.139 --> 01:02:32.599
What's the deal? And he's like, we bought the

01:02:32.599 --> 01:02:36.099
room. Like we are the promoter. We went all in.

01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:38.659
And it's like big. It's expensive to buy the

01:02:38.659 --> 01:02:40.099
place. And I said, do you know where everybody's

01:02:40.099 --> 01:02:42.599
coming from? Because it's near Nashville, but

01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:45.030
not totally. And he's like, yeah. And I was like,

01:02:45.050 --> 01:02:47.389
how many people live near this cave? And he's

01:02:47.389 --> 01:02:49.730
like, oh, it's 90 % people flying in from out

01:02:49.730 --> 01:02:54.130
of state because he could see it. And so that

01:02:54.130 --> 01:02:58.489
crowd was very much, this is one of our big events

01:02:58.489 --> 01:03:02.070
now. And so it was that sort of. I've dreamed

01:03:02.070 --> 01:03:04.489
of seeing a show there. I'm so excited. And it's

01:03:04.489 --> 01:03:06.170
a really special place. It's really cool. And

01:03:06.170 --> 01:03:09.369
all that really, what I was getting at is like

01:03:09.369 --> 01:03:13.199
that particular conversation just really. hit

01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:15.599
me where i was just like man i just i don't even

01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:18.619
know if people i don't know if there's someone

01:03:18.619 --> 01:03:21.179
who's i'll always love what rod does because

01:03:21.179 --> 01:03:25.320
i met my wife at a show or whatever when i go

01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:27.980
back now i can think of times where people are

01:03:27.980 --> 01:03:30.059
like our first date was at your show or something

01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:32.820
or we said let's go on a date and then i suggested

01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:35.239
the show and she was a big fan and he was a big

01:03:35.239 --> 01:03:37.360
fan that's when we knew but i never really processed

01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:43.099
so i'm important to you because of this so Not

01:03:43.099 --> 01:03:45.360
in a way. I'm not sitting there. I'm hoping people

01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:47.019
show up and tell me the story of how important

01:03:47.019 --> 01:03:50.199
I am to them. It's more like, oh, what can I

01:03:50.199 --> 01:03:52.760
do to like... Create those connections. Yeah,

01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:55.739
like really, because... Or foster them at least.

01:03:55.739 --> 01:04:00.699
I know I'm a strange cat. I have lots of acquaintances

01:04:00.699 --> 01:04:04.780
and I have a few friends, you know? But when

01:04:04.780 --> 01:04:06.539
I find people I connect with, I'm just like,

01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:10.219
whatever it takes. I'll murder for you or whatever.

01:04:12.409 --> 01:04:15.130
So the idea of potentially creating a moment

01:04:15.130 --> 01:04:19.409
where someone, after being next, literally had

01:04:19.409 --> 01:04:22.050
this idea. Like the first night of the first

01:04:22.050 --> 01:04:24.329
house show, I walked by and the person was like

01:04:24.329 --> 01:04:26.650
talking to someone else. Oh, I see you at the

01:04:26.650 --> 01:04:29.070
Christmas show. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We get

01:04:29.070 --> 01:04:30.730
a party bus. Let me get your number. You can

01:04:30.730 --> 01:04:34.030
be on the party bus. This is exactly what I wanted

01:04:34.030 --> 01:04:39.070
to happen. Yeah. I told you earlier today, this

01:04:39.070 --> 01:04:41.590
made me love my house more. Yeah, that's cool.

01:04:42.039 --> 01:04:44.719
This house sucks, dude. It does. Yeah, I've had

01:04:44.719 --> 01:04:47.920
to do a lot to fucking make me like it. But it's

01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:50.860
like keeping things... They go back to the Truckers

01:04:50.860 --> 01:04:52.599
and something they did recently to keep things

01:04:52.599 --> 01:04:55.159
fresh, and I think... Because it's almost like

01:04:55.159 --> 01:04:56.840
the other side of what you're talking about.

01:04:56.940 --> 01:04:58.599
They're a band that never plays with a set list.

01:04:59.300 --> 01:05:01.539
They never... I've never... I've seen them over

01:05:01.539 --> 01:05:02.960
a hundred times. They've never played the same

01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:05.920
show until they did the Southern Rock Opera tour.

01:05:06.380 --> 01:05:09.280
And I saw that tour four times. Yeah. That is

01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:10.739
the first time I've ever seen them play the same

01:05:10.739 --> 01:05:13.400
show more than once. And that was new. That was

01:05:13.400 --> 01:05:16.119
new. Yeah, yeah. But then, now that they're not

01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:18.340
doing it anymore, the rest of their catalog,

01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:20.199
it's like they're in love with it again. Yeah.

01:05:20.820 --> 01:05:22.840
And this ties back to the thing I was talking

01:05:22.840 --> 01:05:25.000
about on an episode that you haven't heard yet.

01:05:25.019 --> 01:05:27.739
I haven't released it. But about these reunion

01:05:27.739 --> 01:05:31.780
tours and these nostalgia. Yeah. Flaming Lips

01:05:31.780 --> 01:05:35.159
doing Yashimi. Yeah, yeah. Truckers doing Southern

01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:39.110
Rock Opera. bright eyes is on tour right now.

01:05:39.130 --> 01:05:42.869
And I think it's these people who are actually

01:05:42.869 --> 01:05:46.289
revisiting a lot of what you're talking about.

01:05:46.750 --> 01:05:51.409
Like somebody who fucking met at one of your

01:05:51.409 --> 01:05:54.230
shows, go back to your show. And it's like a,

01:05:54.269 --> 01:05:58.469
the memory, like, or like people go to see bright

01:05:58.469 --> 01:06:00.869
eyes. Cause like they fell in love to that band

01:06:00.869 --> 01:06:02.949
and, you know, and high in college or whatever.

01:06:03.210 --> 01:06:08.039
And so I think like you're, you're you're hitting

01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:10.280
the nail on the head first of all i think you're

01:06:10.280 --> 01:06:14.139
if your goal is to to do that then you're accomplishing

01:06:14.139 --> 01:06:18.360
that yeah fuck yeah but also i just think it's

01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:22.480
interesting how different artists do different

01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:25.079
like completely different things yeah both of

01:06:25.079 --> 01:06:27.960
them like their everyday touring like yeah set

01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:31.610
list no set list or whatever and then also okay,

01:06:31.670 --> 01:06:33.329
we're going to go play this album that we've

01:06:33.329 --> 01:06:35.670
never played all the way through in 20 years.

01:06:35.829 --> 01:06:37.969
Or I'm going to go play at house. I haven't done

01:06:37.969 --> 01:06:40.969
solo shows in 20 years. I'm going to go do house

01:06:40.969 --> 01:06:43.010
shows and I'm going to really foster these connections.

01:06:43.389 --> 01:06:45.409
And I think both of them are doing the same thing.

01:06:45.429 --> 01:06:49.110
Yeah. In different ways. But I think if you're

01:06:49.110 --> 01:06:52.269
like, you're revisiting something or building

01:06:52.269 --> 01:06:56.670
something that isn't necessarily tangible. Like

01:06:56.670 --> 01:07:01.329
for me, there's also this thing where Someone

01:07:01.329 --> 01:07:03.369
would be like, you did this and you did this

01:07:03.369 --> 01:07:04.730
and now you're doing this and now you're doing

01:07:04.730 --> 01:07:10.769
this. I'm not zooming out and looking at my life

01:07:10.769 --> 01:07:13.349
in some sort of like, how do I tell the story?

01:07:14.210 --> 01:07:17.329
I'm in the middle of it. So the high points,

01:07:17.429 --> 01:07:20.510
the low points, the whatever, that's just that

01:07:20.510 --> 01:07:24.190
Thursday, that one week, that one year. It's

01:07:24.190 --> 01:07:29.550
not like me marking. how close am i to retiring

01:07:29.550 --> 01:07:32.690
or whatever yeah i don't have this like observational

01:07:32.690 --> 01:07:36.630
measurement whatever like this is no different

01:07:36.630 --> 01:07:41.989
than playing some festival than getting some

01:07:41.989 --> 01:07:44.409
or even even in the course of like why did that

01:07:44.409 --> 01:07:46.409
one record work it's like there's no reason that

01:07:46.409 --> 01:07:49.650
record worked like to me i was never shooting

01:07:49.650 --> 01:07:53.309
lower there was definitely like like last night

01:07:53.309 --> 01:07:54.849
people were asking for songs i wrote when i was

01:07:54.849 --> 01:07:58.380
19. i'm 44. But also I played the song I wrote

01:07:58.380 --> 01:08:02.219
last week. And it's like, I can't tell you why

01:08:02.219 --> 01:08:06.440
anything works. And that's not my job. And my

01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:11.460
job is to freaking look at it and then talk about

01:08:11.460 --> 01:08:16.079
it. And sometimes talking about it is obscuring

01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:18.760
it in a way that someone has to dig so hard that

01:08:18.760 --> 01:08:20.779
they figure out something about themselves. And

01:08:20.779 --> 01:08:24.779
sometimes it's just saying it plainly. But I

01:08:24.779 --> 01:08:27.850
don't think. I think we've lost a lot in the

01:08:27.850 --> 01:08:30.409
sense of the difference between what an artist

01:08:30.409 --> 01:08:34.909
is here for and our obsession with easy sugar.

01:08:35.109 --> 01:08:38.689
Just like, let's get entertained. Yeah, give

01:08:38.689 --> 01:08:41.350
me my dopamine fix, my flavor of the week. Yeah.

01:08:41.909 --> 01:08:46.010
And I like to be entertained. Last night we numbed

01:08:46.010 --> 01:08:48.010
out and watched a big dumb movie. Yeah, yeah,

01:08:48.010 --> 01:08:50.770
yeah. There's times where I want that. Of course,

01:08:50.789 --> 01:08:55.609
yeah. But then that's not the same as... an artist

01:08:55.609 --> 01:08:59.250
actually like doing something or changing my

01:08:59.250 --> 01:09:04.310
life so that's almost like a recharge in a way

01:09:04.310 --> 01:09:07.270
or yeah i don't know and in the same way that

01:09:07.270 --> 01:09:08.569
i don't think you should be entertained all the

01:09:08.569 --> 01:09:10.989
time i don't think you can get your life changed

01:09:10.989 --> 01:09:14.470
by art every five seconds yeah yeah or we just

01:09:14.470 --> 01:09:18.189
be yeah that happens you're just consuming shit

01:09:18.189 --> 01:09:20.310
all the time yeah or like looking for answers

01:09:20.310 --> 01:09:23.630
when Your life is happening to you. Yeah, yeah,

01:09:23.630 --> 01:09:26.850
yeah. And some of that, it's literally like,

01:09:26.869 --> 01:09:29.350
I thought I was going to be in New Orleans writing

01:09:29.350 --> 01:09:31.850
and recording for the last three days, but instead

01:09:31.850 --> 01:09:37.710
I was living in a way that it's like, what the

01:09:37.710 --> 01:09:40.909
hell just happened to me? As I process it...

01:09:40.909 --> 01:09:45.449
New Orleans is like that, though. And so, anyways,

01:09:45.630 --> 01:09:48.810
yeah, again, I guess you were like, let's finish

01:09:48.810 --> 01:09:50.189
up, do you have anything to plug? And it was

01:09:50.189 --> 01:09:55.079
just more like... Not necessarily my shows or

01:09:55.079 --> 01:09:57.899
the idea of doing more house shows. I'm also

01:09:57.899 --> 01:10:01.060
playing club shows. You're doing a Chicago show

01:10:01.060 --> 01:10:03.619
soon, right? Yeah, that'll be a two -week run

01:10:03.619 --> 01:10:09.800
of stuff. But I guess what I was getting at is

01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:17.460
I guess I'm just wanting people to connect. I

01:10:17.460 --> 01:10:19.020
don't really know how to plug that other than

01:10:19.020 --> 01:10:23.420
put your phone down. find a situation where maybe

01:10:23.420 --> 01:10:26.520
it's not weird to actually like that thing of

01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:30.420
going out to a bar to be alone is uninteresting

01:10:30.420 --> 01:10:33.739
to me now yeah you know yeah yeah and this scenario

01:10:33.739 --> 01:10:36.079
something like this house show seems like all

01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:40.359
it's so different that all those rules are they're

01:10:40.359 --> 01:10:42.479
gone suspended yeah no it's so weird because

01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:44.920
it just is someone who goes to a bunch of shows

01:10:44.920 --> 01:10:48.739
yeah talking to it straight like We're there

01:10:48.739 --> 01:10:50.859
for the same reason. We obviously both love this

01:10:50.859 --> 01:10:54.319
band. You have something in common. But still

01:10:54.319 --> 01:10:56.039
starting a conversation with those people is

01:10:56.039 --> 01:10:59.520
weird. It's literally, hey man, don't go over

01:10:59.520 --> 01:11:01.500
there. There's a weirdo that's talking to everybody

01:11:01.500 --> 01:11:05.000
or something. Whereas last night, it would have

01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:07.060
been fucking weird if we didn't talk to each

01:11:07.060 --> 01:11:10.399
other. It's like the opposite. Can I get in your

01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:14.409
fridge? Can I pee here? And I'm like, I don't

01:11:14.409 --> 01:11:17.409
like the alternative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Using

01:11:17.409 --> 01:11:22.149
your hand towels. Yeah, I think, again, I'm not

01:11:22.149 --> 01:11:24.310
anti -bar, I'm not anti -restaurant, I'm not

01:11:24.310 --> 01:11:28.710
anti -whatever, but I guess that is the experiment.

01:11:28.909 --> 01:11:34.510
I'm pushing myself into places that it's different

01:11:34.510 --> 01:11:39.029
enough that it breaks all my typical patterns

01:11:39.029 --> 01:11:43.899
and cycles. it's easy to just have that's the

01:11:43.899 --> 01:11:47.279
design of modern life in America is I can go

01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:49.279
to the same coffee shop in every town because

01:11:49.279 --> 01:11:51.859
literally there's a Starbucks in every town so

01:11:51.859 --> 01:11:56.279
I can walk in I can say my order it will taste

01:11:56.279 --> 01:12:02.239
the same I'm out the door and so to search for

01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:06.119
that weird stuff and that like non processed

01:12:06.119 --> 01:12:11.010
non just homogenized version of of the world

01:12:11.010 --> 01:12:14.850
is it's more difficult it's weird there's more

01:12:14.850 --> 01:12:16.609
it's weird it's weird that it's more difficult

01:12:16.609 --> 01:12:20.789
to get fresh organic food than not yeah like

01:12:20.789 --> 01:12:24.090
one of them takes maybe more work in the sense

01:12:24.090 --> 01:12:26.529
of you got to care for it but you don't have

01:12:26.529 --> 01:12:29.470
to have technology to have an apple but here

01:12:29.470 --> 01:12:32.329
we are and it's like i now have to have like

01:12:32.329 --> 01:12:35.329
apps to figure out if this thing saying it's

01:12:35.329 --> 01:12:37.550
organic is lying to me or what i don't know anyway

01:12:37.550 --> 01:12:40.600
the point is like it shouldn't be that hard experience

01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:45.020
life where every store is different and everybody's

01:12:45.020 --> 01:12:47.619
hamburger tastes different and everybody's whatever

01:12:47.619 --> 01:12:51.479
it is. Have it be organic and natural and real.

01:12:51.779 --> 01:12:56.399
Some weird industrial person decided that they

01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:58.380
knew that everyone's afraid all the time and

01:12:58.380 --> 01:13:00.640
they can give you a safe experience and everybody

01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:03.840
just said, yeah, let's go. You could have murdered

01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:06.979
me last night. I don't think I have the means

01:13:06.979 --> 01:13:09.529
if I think about it. No, there's a nice knife

01:13:09.529 --> 01:13:12.569
set over there, but I definitely don't have it

01:13:12.569 --> 01:13:15.250
in me. I don't want to get murdered. I'm not

01:13:15.250 --> 01:13:19.189
like, every night, let's see. But it definitely

01:13:19.189 --> 01:13:21.829
is like, it's different even than crashing with

01:13:21.829 --> 01:13:24.109
a band. Where you're like, there's four or five

01:13:24.109 --> 01:13:25.970
of us, this guy. There's been a few times where

01:13:25.970 --> 01:13:28.029
he showed up at our house and like the second

01:13:28.029 --> 01:13:31.189
the person who invited us over laid down, we

01:13:31.189 --> 01:13:32.630
were all like, we gotta get the hell out of here.

01:13:33.530 --> 01:13:36.229
Yeah, to be fair, I half expected you to be gone

01:13:36.229 --> 01:13:38.609
when I woke up this morning. I need your help

01:13:38.609 --> 01:13:40.250
carrying the heavy stuff. Hell yeah, man. Let's

01:13:40.250 --> 01:13:43.069
do this. I got one last question for you. You

01:13:43.069 --> 01:13:46.310
still love Red Bull and NyQuil? Still fuck with

01:13:46.310 --> 01:13:51.710
that? No. The combinations of chemicals have

01:13:51.710 --> 01:13:56.189
changed for sure. Yeah, I was experimenting.

01:13:56.670 --> 01:13:58.949
Thank you so much for being here, Roddy. I really

01:13:58.949 --> 01:14:01.270
appreciate it, man. This is fantastic. Guys,

01:14:01.649 --> 01:14:05.390
if you have a house that can host a show, get

01:14:05.390 --> 01:14:07.949
in touch with this guy. He'll throw the best

01:14:07.949 --> 01:14:10.289
fucking party you've ever had. All right, man.

01:14:10.329 --> 01:14:12.329
Thanks for having me. Thank you. Let's get you

01:14:12.329 --> 01:14:15.569
loaded out. Yeah. Well, that was my interview

01:14:15.569 --> 01:14:18.029
with J. Roddy Walston from back of March of last

01:14:18.029 --> 01:14:21.310
year. I've gotten better with some of my editing

01:14:21.310 --> 01:14:24.550
software, so I wanted to remaster a few episodes

01:14:24.550 --> 01:14:27.229
here and there. I'll be doing one of these every

01:14:27.229 --> 01:14:30.289
few weeks. Some of them came out great early

01:14:30.289 --> 01:14:33.489
on. Some of them just needed a little bit of

01:14:33.489 --> 01:14:35.930
tweaking, and this was one of them. It's also

01:14:35.930 --> 01:14:38.409
interesting to go back and listen to my first

01:14:38.409 --> 01:14:41.109
interviews again. I think I've gotten better,

01:14:41.210 --> 01:14:45.949
but I think those early ones held up too. Thanks

01:14:45.949 --> 01:14:47.689
for listening. Hit that subscribe button. We

01:14:47.689 --> 01:14:52.430
got Justin Long coming up later this week. He's

01:14:52.430 --> 01:14:55.409
from a band I worked with as a kid called No

01:14:55.409 --> 01:14:58.890
Address, New Address when they were local. He's

01:14:58.890 --> 01:15:00.949
now playing in the Petty Nicks Experience for

01:15:00.949 --> 01:15:04.310
several years now. He's an artist development

01:15:04.310 --> 01:15:08.569
instructor. He has been a producer as long as

01:15:08.569 --> 01:15:11.210
I've known him. So we had a great talk about

01:15:11.210 --> 01:15:14.770
everything from the old Tallahassee music scene

01:15:14.770 --> 01:15:17.449
to what he's up to now. So check that episode

01:15:17.449 --> 01:15:20.010
out. Hit that subscribe button. Check out the

01:15:20.010 --> 01:15:23.569
Patreon. Help keep this sustainable. Thanks for

01:15:23.569 --> 01:15:23.869
listening.