I'm never on stage with banter being like, this
will be funny. I will make someone laugh. I think
the idea that someone gets up and goes, I know
it's funny. I'll say it. And then people will
laugh is like the wildest, scariest thing. Welcome
to Overeducated and Underemployed. We've got
my first interview here. I've remastered it.
It's from back in March of last year. J. Roddy
Walston is on tour right now. Check it out. Buy
tickets. He's got a great new band together.
I'm going to be remastering about one of these
every few weeks. I've got a few that the audio
quality just wasn't where I hoped back then.
I've gotten better software. Here's my interview
with J. Roddy Walston from March of last year.
All right, I'm here with J. Roddy Walston. Full
disclosure, I'm a fan, and he played in my house
last night. We're going to just be talking about
the house show tours that he's doing right now.
And with that, hey, Roddy, how you doing, man?
I'm good, man. I'm good. I got to let you know,
I'm also a big fan of mine. That's good. That's
good, man. Let's just start. Like, what? What
was the first, like, musician that you loved?
Ooh. First musician I loved. I remember, very
much remember two moments that I heard something
and I was like, I wasn't even like, I was a kid,
but I, in Ferris Bueller's Day Off when he was
in the parade and they were singing, he was lip
syncing to the Beatles and, but it's the Shake
It Up Baby or whatever and it's, one of those
recordings where John Lennon's sick and his voice
just sounds destroyed. And I was like, I want
to sound like that. So I didn't even know what
I was listening to, but it was just like, ooh.
And then in the same way, seeing Jailhouse Rock
and Elvis playing it, I was just like, this is,
I didn't really care about the visuals as much
as just like the way his voice sounded. I was
just like, this is so cool. In a more like, actually
knew what I was listening to kind of way. Yeah,
yeah. I found a box of records in my house, and
I have no idea whose records they were because
it was not my parents, and I don't know. And
it was the first three U2 records, Aerosmith,
Toys in the Attic, and... Sorry about that. I
thought I had this thing. Aerosmith, Toys in
the Attic, and... No, that was the box of records.
And so that kind of, like, really just... flip
my lid because at that point all I'd ever really
listened to was like church stuff or music that
was in movies or whatever. And then the first
CDs I bought was DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh
Prince, like that first record. Same day bought
that, R .E .M. Automatic for the People, and
those two records were a lot of the early 90s
stuff for me. And then A year or so after that,
my brother brought home Nevermind, and it was
just like, this is so dangerous. We're going
to get in trouble. Just the way it sounded. And
then in that same world, like, the Wayne's World
soundtrack, strangely, like, really, that movie
just was everything to me and my friends when
it came out. So the soundtrack was, like, we
were putting it on to feel something from the
movie, but then it was like, oh, this kind of
really turned me on to a lot of... different
stuff. So I don't know. That's interesting. The
Wayne's world soundtrack is an interesting, just,
there's a cool story behind that too. They were
really fighting for Alice Cooper to play schools
out for summer, like in the movie. And they had
a new album coming out. Yeah. And the label was
like, Frankenstein. Yeah. The label was like,
no, you got to play the new album. You got to
play the new song. Yeah. And the compromise they
reached was like, okay, we were going to play
the new song in the movie, but. The closing credits,
you get schools out. And Mike Myers said it turned
out fine, because that's all anybody remembers
anyway. I think it's crazy that Twist and Shout
was one of the first songs that ever grabbed
you. Because it was for me, too. In fact, it
might be the very first song. Different path,
although I do love Ferris Bueller. My elementary
school, no, my preschool, when we had a little
graduation ceremony, and we sang that song. Oh,
crazy. And I remember my mom taking me to the
mall, to the Sam Goody. Yeah. And I bought, it
was the collection Beatles Rock and Roll Music.
Oh, yeah. And it was one of the volumes. I can't
remember which one. Whichever one had Twist and
Shout on it. Yeah. And that was the first cassette
I ever had. Yeah. Because we were too poor for
me. Like, CDs were out, but I didn't have the
money to go buy CDs. But, yeah, that's, it's
really interesting. Like, I, and it's not the
first time I've heard somebody say. Not just
the Beatles, but that song in particular. Yeah,
it's a great... If you're into a rock vocal kind
of performance, that's got to be an all -time.
I think you can play that for anyone at any given
moment. It's just, what the hell is going on
here? So do you think there's a common thread
between what you liked about that and then what
you heard in Nevermind? Where it's the kind of
dangerous... Because, I mean, obviously, like,
Twist and Shout's not as edgy of a song, but
maybe at that age. Yeah. And especially the way
you talked about John's vocals on that track.
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, somewhere in there
is, yeah, that Kurt's vocals are very blown out
and wild and different than, say, now. It's just,
like, everything is so processed and it's not...
Most people, you're not hearing, like, a singular
performance or even maybe... the best of two
takes put together or something like that. Yeah,
I mean, yeah, I'm definitely, like, drawn to
vocals and the wildness in those vocals. Or someone
being able to, like, really bring it down and
suck you in in a different way. But, yeah. Also,
when you're young, you're just, like, you're
still open to everything, usually. Yeah, yeah.
Everybody's an artist. when they're a toddler,
right? Yeah, and there's no rules, and you just
kind of like what you like. Yeah, so it was as
wild to me to get the Fresh Prince record. I
was terrified of Nightmare on My Street. Do you
feel like that's pretty representative of the
diversity in the music that you still listen
to? Because those are other ends of the spectrum
a lot. Yeah, it's odd and weird. Like some people,
I think they do like... rock and roll influenced
stuff they get sucked into some romance with
the idea of what if i pretend i'm from 71 or
i pretend i'm from 55 or whatever and they're
dressing that way and they sing that way and
record that and it's like i gotta find a studio
that only has technology that stops whatever
that kind of thing where you're just like cosplaying
a decade or whatever and yeah yeah and i'm not
saying i I haven't participated in some of that
kind of stuff in the sense of like being really
interested in what would it be like to record
a record on tape or whatever because computers
were involved. I had four track cassette recorders
but pretty quickly after that a friend of mine
got a very early like the first affordable version
of being able to record on a computer at home.
I've been dealing with that kind of technology
since early on but the Thing for me, generally
speaking, is I like all the stuff that I've heard
as far as past things, but I still am recognizing
that I live right now. So I don't necessarily
want to make a record where someone's, oh, this
guy's a contemporary of the Beatles or something.
I did listen to Whitney Houston when my sister
was Jim. That influenced me. I thought Michael
Jackson was a rock and roll singer. I didn't
necessarily. I was like... Because I was growing
up when he was doing, like, Bad and Thriller,
and that stuff was... Yeah. I mean, I was like,
that's crazy that he and Alvin and Chipmunk sing
a lot. It's Van Halen playing guitar on that.
Yeah. Yeah. And, again, great. Michael Jackson,
when he's singing aggressively, it's amazing.
It's insane. Yeah, so I generally try to... I'm
not, like, trying to jam every genre and every
decade and everything that's ever happened in
the same song, but I don't go, oh, I can't do
that. That's too... 97 or 2025 or what so it
doesn't really you don't make it be the reason
you do or don't do something right right there's
certain things that unless i can find a really
artistic songs about like cell phones or something
i don't like there's certain words or very time
specific things that i tend to avoid for a reason
like lyrically yeah It's interesting, though,
the converse of that is so many movie plots are
now obsolete in the invention of cell phones.
Right. If they just had a beeper, this movie
would be over. Yeah. But, okay, so what made
you realize that music is what you were going
to do with your life? Or at least that you were
going to try it? Yeah. What was the transition
from consumer to producer? Pretty much from early
on, I was like... One of my earliest memories
was writing a little... As a seven -year -old,
being like... Like a little rhyme. I know that
the rhyme was strife and life. And I walked up
to my mom and sang it to her, and she was just
kind of... Huh. Like, why are you saying strife?
Do you even know what that means? But... So...
Pretty early on was, like, writing. Didn't know
how songs worked at all. I just would write words
down. But in my head, it was like... And then
when I start writing songs, I'll already have
all these words or something. At least know how
to put them together. Honestly, the year that
Kurt Cobain died, the talent show at our school,
they were like... Because it was, like, days
later. They were like, no bands. whatever can
play Nirvana songs. But none of the teachers
knew Nirvana songs. So everybody played Nirvana
songs and just said that they wrote them. And
then every band got up and smashed their gear
and stuff. And I didn't sound great. No, it wasn't
angry. Whatever the case, I looked over at my
best friend. I was like, dude, we have to start
a band right now. The coach was like crying because
like hi -hats were. going like into the wood
of the gym floor and stuff like one kid smashed
a brand new guitar and he was as soon as he did
he's like my dad's gonna kill me he like ran
away for a week and i was just like this is the
best thing i have ever seen so that was probably
the moment that it was he really spread like
wildfire yeah it was just like let's go like
this is happening also it was wild to observe
that moment where Even the cool kids were weird
for one or two years. Longer hair, tie -dyes.
They're telling teachers, suck it. But then all
of a sudden, the thing flipped, and they were
like, actually, I'm a quarterback. Let's get
rapey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just right back into
their old... Yeah. But it was a cool little...
The girls like Nirvana. ...peer into the window
of... You know, like, what if the world was completely,
like, wild and weird? No, dog, I'm trying to
make money. Or whatever. My dad's a lawyer. Let's
get real. But, yeah, it was a weird, cool little
moment to live through, for sure. And then when
did you realize, like, you could make this your,
like, your living or your life or at least something
that you continue to do? And I know that hasn't
always been the case, but. Yeah. When did you
realize, I'm going to try and make this my thing
and not whatever else? So after that point, it
started all like high school, junior high, whatever
kind of bands. And I think to whatever level,
I was in a lot of ways the driving force in those
bands. But it was also very that young, we're
all in it together thing. But within that, the
writing was really... democratic or kind of anybody
that brought anything it got to go in and then
but inevitably some version of the band would
break up or someone would quit and then you were
like left with this oh we have this like 18 minute
long song but the third section blah blah wrote
and they quit do we get rid of their section
can we play i don't know so i had some moment
where like I was like, I'm going to start writing
just a song from the front to the end. Because
I'd basically never been in bands that like,
unless the whole band was in the room, you couldn't
play through the whole song. Or you were like,
blah, blah, blah. But then hear this, like explaining
people like that it would be better if you could
hear the whole thing or we can't play this section
because it's on theremin or something. I don't
know. And so I was like, I'm going to sit down
and start writing a song from like. front to
back that potentially either on a piano or guitar
I could just play for you and so I kind of like
gone way out into the wildness and weirdness
before I ever really learned how to write a song
but then I don't know so yeah all sudden I had
the ability to play a song all the way through
and people are like I'm into that and then it's
pretty powerful to get positive reinforcement
towards the front end of something because you're
like is this just for me or is this I like it
but To have some people that you respect like
it enough to tell you and also go. Like right
now, if someone brought me a song and it was
just terrible, I'd just be like, oh, cool, blah,
blah, blah, blah. But I'm not going to spend
time trying to fix something that's unfixable.
So if someone sees something in you that's good
enough for them to actually give you a critique.
And I grew up, my dad was a basketball coach
and whatever, so I think a lot of artists, it's
like they don't have the ability to hear. you're
never going to be a power forward or something.
Like my dad, do you want me to tell you the truth
or are you going to help you get better? And
I'm like, okay. And he's like, you're short,
you're slow, you're whatever. But here's what
you can do. You get better at that and, of course,
do the other stuff as much as you can. And I
think that's the downside of everybody getting
a trophy. Right. Yeah. Because everybody is told
that they're good at something they might not
be good at. Yeah. And they don't know how to
hear that when they do hear it. And then they
just, like, crumble. It's like, oh, what? Yeah.
And not only that, then they're not diverting
their efforts into something they might be able
to excel at. They're, like, trying to, like,
flounder in this thing that they've been told
they can do. Yeah. So do you think you've kind
of, like, you're playing solo shows for the first
time in a band's history. Yeah. So do you feel
like you're going through that same experience
again? Yeah, yeah. On the road? Yeah, in fact.
As we were cleaning up the house the other day,
we ended up with Tupperware bins of memorabilia
or whatever, like articles, whatever. And it
was kind of like, what is this? I was sorting
through it, and there was like a pop -up quote
in some art interview I did. And I was like,
you know, the names you're in the business, when
I named that band that, or I started playing
as that, there weren't a lot of blah -biddy -blah
and the blah -biddy -blahs at that time. It was
like one word. Just like Bush. Yeah, but it was
like The Strokes. Yeah, that was a few years
later. But yeah, a singular word, a singular
kind of er. And the premise was really in reference
to that thing where I kept being in bands that
broke up. And I was like, okay, I'm going to
be able to play. And whoever's in the band or
not, I can keep playing these songs. Because
I had just gone through here in high school.
So I'm just, I don't like this anymore. I'm going
to college or whatever. And so when I read that,
I was like, dang, dude, I'm just like learning
the same lessons over and over. I do love being
in a band and I do love working with people and
whatever. But like at this point in my life,
I'm at least ready to have a chunk of time where
I'm not starting over for a while. And with that,
I'm trying to make people feel appreciated while
not making them. and allowing them to have the
ability to be like, oh, we can't do that show
or that tour because my family's vacation or
something like that. Which they should be able
to. I missed so much of the important family
stuff in my 20s through early 40s, just being
like band, music, whatever has to come first.
And so like, also when you're in a band like
that, them being like, can you play this show?
And you're like, all right. nieces graduating
and they're like yeah it's gonna cost everybody
else in the band like four thousand dollars each
or something you're like sorry I can't go anyways
yeah yeah yeah so yeah yeah I think coming back
and then being able to play the songs by myself
I was just in a band for so long that like when
it came time to finally do a solo show again
for the first time in 15 20 years I was like
oh man I don't really know how to play my songs
front to back without this I'd normally stand
up during the bridge and run around or whatever
or like how do I make this engaging to play by
myself and so like learning that again and then
it's also given me the ability to try out new
stuff in front of people versus like with the
band a lot of times you're like someone has everyone
has varying degrees of comfort of what if we
fall flat in front of people which I also have
learned that I while scared about it really thrive
on yeah like this tour i went on last summer
i basically just it was both like as i was traveling
and on stage it's like if i think about it i
have to do it so i didn't become careful about
it i was just like living my life but like at
soundcheck if i did a weird version of a song
it was like okay tonight on stage i'm just gonna
figure out how to play it all the way through
like that like that version of sweatshark that
i did last night yeah that was just an idea i
had one night And then it was like, all right,
here we go. And that keeps, I think that keeps
people that know your songs interested too. That's
part of why people, some people want to go see
a band and they just want to hear the way it
sounds on the record. But I think real music
fans typically want to hear the most organic
version of that song they can. Yeah. And I think
like you've gotten to the root of making these
songs. like new and organic again when you do
that yeah i think we like jay riding the business
where we were touring for at least 15 years at
least 200 days a year and it's exhausting and
sometimes way more than that and so that idea
of hey guys how do we keep this fresh it was
more like how do we stay alive yeah or like we
were never on a bus we were very much into, even
when I get a point when maybe people were like
going, God, these guys are blowing up or successful.
We were driving ourselves, like no tour manager,
no, we, we would have merch guys, but the merch
guys were like buds. And we were like, and they
were also probably doing two or three other things
for you too. Yeah. Yeah. I'd just be like, you
can come along. We don't know when or how much
we can pay you. If there's money left over, you'll
get some. And, but it's going to be a party and
free booze and find a place to stay. Next time
you meet somebody. Yeah. Like, you're in your
20s. Yeah, you can stay here and, like, work
to buy beer, or you can go with us in the van
and sling some T -shirts in at night. And it's,
like, okay. We'll all share a pizza or whatever
it is. Yeah. So, yeah, with that, it was just
hard, maybe, to stay constantly motivated to
reinvent things. But at a certain point, you
become almost, like, ubiquitous as far as...
I think where we and a lot of the people that
kind of got shoved into the just stay on tour
and that's how you can make money kind of version
of being a musician, you do hit a point where
then suddenly everyone's, I'll just catch them
next time because they're going to be here another
two or three times this year or definitely once
a year if not their show plus they're out opening
for someone plus a festival plus whatever and
then if you're doing generally the same set.
Do I need to see that for the 10th time or what?
And, and so, yeah, that's definitely situation
like house shows or changing up the whole process
is where I'm at. Not necessarily as a sales pitch,
but just like, it makes me more excited. And
I think it makes, if you want to see what I'm
doing, better see it right now because in six
months I'll change it all. Or next time I come
through, which might only be the time, that only
time that I come through for the year. I mean,
it's the only time you've been here. Yeah, I've
never been here before. Yeah. Yeah. Is there
anything else you could have done? Looking back,
some people I feel like they have a choice. Okay,
I thought you meant to be more successful. No,
I don't mean it like that. Could you have done
anything else with your life and been happy or
successful? I don't know that anybody's happy,
especially if they're an artist. If you weren't
a musician, what would you do? Yeah, that's...
That the points... Constantly are... Where I'm
constantly, like, going... Is this it? Probably
some weird world where I was, like, a lawyer
or something. I was really... Really fascinated
with law and... Had a whole different concept
on it now than I did at a point where I maybe
would have considered it. But I'm... I'm handy
at, like, doing... Building stuff. Like, really
into woodworking and stuff. I like... Not, like,
building cabinets, but... Yeah, yeah. I can build
things. I can do stuff. I got the hyper -focused
superpower. For six months, I'm a pretty good
electrician. I lose all that knowledge or whatever
because I'm just processing things to learn how
to do it. It's like the slowest version of The
Matrix or something. I know electricians. It
goes away. I think most people that really...
Every once in a while you meet someone and you're
just like, you're just like an animal. But like
a lot of times, the people that really are good
at anything, I don't think there's that many
people that are actually good at anything. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Those people could be good at anything.
And so I'm not saying I could be a brain surgeon
or something like that, but I think had I become
a lawyer. And had I worked as much and as hard
as I did and have and still do at music, I would
own like, I'd be a partner. You know what I mean?
What is the real question? Would you have, could
you have worked as hard at that as you do something
that is... I'm generally unemployable. So I guess
the answer probably is no. But because I was
always the guy that had my regular job. I was
never like trying to... become the boss i don't
know i never really jumped in and said let me
just blow these guys away i i as a teenager like
first of all you're an idiot like the regional
manager of schlotzky's deli is not the sharpest
knife in the drawer and then also your parents
own the business so we all know why yeah yeah
yeah and then but i was yeah definitely just
the guys I'm just going to keep my head down.
I'm not trying to, like, I don't want to make
this the most profitable McDonald's in the country.
I don't care. This place sucks. Most of the people
in here suck. I almost never told people that
I go by Rod or Roddy when I had a job. Almost
all my bosses called me Jonathan because I did
not care to even pretend like this was going
to be a place I cared about or that it was like,
this is to get some money to go over here and
actually do the. thing that i do i was never
though i love you corporate america probably
the answer is no i would have sucked and generally
have sucked at being an employee i was kind of
like money's not real this place isn't real like
i don't care about it yeah i think i think what
you said is interesting like the people that
are good at something could probably be good
at a lot of things But I think the motivation
to do that is really the difference between,
like, you have a different perspective on the
law now. Like, you might, if you become a lawyer
and you still gain that new perspective, and
I don't necessarily know what that is, but you
might end up regretting being a lawyer. Yeah.
Whereas I feel like... I regret being a musician.
No. I mean, there's moments that actually, that
leads me to something I wanted to talk about.
I mean, there was a time where you wanted to
call it quits. Right. Well, yeah, yeah. But it
was a pretty recent time. Yeah. And about a year
ago. Yeah. And what, I guess two things, like
one is like the realization that you probably
can't do anything else. Is that part of what
brought you back to it? A little bit. And also
like what, what kind of caused that? To begin
with, is it the same kind of things that you've
always dealt with or was there something new?
I think it was the culmination of whatever led
to Jerry and the business ending straight into
COVID. Because the last business show was Thanksgiving
2019. Yeah. So straight into COVID, which was
wild. And then like inside of that. Especially
with the landscape of the way musicians make
their money these days. Yeah. And even that sort
of thing that the music industry really pushed
on probably my crew of people for the first time.
Don't worry if everyone's stealing your music.
They'll become your fans and you can sell them
tickets and whatever. And all of a sudden it
was like, oh, what happens when we can't sell
them tickets? Yeah. Mike Cooley once said, we're
traveling t -shirt salesmen. Yeah. It's hard
to do that if you can't travel. That sentiment
actually was one of the final straws for me of
all the way burnt to the end of 2024, where,
I'm sorry, 2023, going into 2024, just this,
everyone, all these guys, here's how to make
your career, blah, blah, blah. You just need
to accept that if you're a musician, you're a
traveling t -shirt salesman or whatever. You're
in the t -shirt business. And I was like, dude,
that is not what I want. that's not how I want
to go about this. But it kind of was one of those
things where I think I, you have to just keep
at it. And the sort of, I heard some point it
was like, do you want to make it in the music
industry? Don't quit before you make it in the
music industry or don't have a plan B because
if you have a plan B, you're absolutely going
to take it, which I never really had a viable
plan B. And there were a lot of times where it
was literally like, If I had a college degree
and I could pivot in one year, have a specialized
something to move to, I probably would have done
it. Don't know that I was stuck with it or been
happy to do it, but I probably would have taken
it a few times. And it was just like, I got no
option. This is what I got. It doesn't seem like
you would ever stop writing songs, though. Yeah,
no. There's moments where I had fantasies about,
screw it, I'm going to sell everything I don't.
touch instruments anymore and people being like,
why don't you do this? Or at least sing a song
or something or do it for yourself and just being
like, no, I'm done with music. So we've talked
off of the podcast a little bit about this creative
drive or the curiosity that I think plagues a
lot of artists from visual artists to musicians
to comedians to how would you get that expression
out if you weren't doing music? I used to write
something like short stories and then never really
thought I would put them out. And so take a short
story and go like, how do I condense this down?
That's the folly of the nature of probably like
my makeup is like other times when I've been
like, maybe I don't want to do music anymore.
Maybe I'll become a screenwriter or start writing
novels or something. But instead of I have some
practical, normal let me trade my time for a
dollar bill kind of skill set or something like
that so I think I've come back down also to when
I was saying like I don't want to be a t -shirt
salesman part of that was selling t -shirts that
I didn't like and having a lot of skin even more
than that reading that the majority of people
that buy records don't have a record player and
like Also, the majority of people that buy band
shirts don't necessarily wear the band shirts.
And I appreciate the sentiment that it's like
they're doing it to support art and artists that
they like. But I was like really turned off by
the idea. I was like, so I'm just making junk
that like eventually someone goes, we cleaned
the house five times. Is it time to get rid of
this thing? My stuff's just more stuff for the
storage unit or something until it finally goes
in the landfill. I see what you mean. And then
like on top of that, though. As an artist, to
make enough to take on tour, you're putting a
lot of skin in the game up front. And at any
given point, people would just be like, yeah,
I don't want to buy that. Or whatever. You're
stuck with this stuff. Or there could be economic
collapse and all of a sudden nobody has money
to buy anything. Sure. Yeah, yeah. You're constantly
vulnerable to that stuff. Yeah. So I was going
through all these different things. These slow,
just train wrecks of just life in general, my
individual and the general experience. Like I
said, COVID, whatever. And basically, I get hit,
go down one knee, and just that drive, you can't
stop. Drag myself back up, keep going. And finally,
end of 2023, going into 2024, it was just like,
I was like, you know what? I'm just going to
stay down. and sit in my annihilation and observe
it as best I can and be fine with it if that's
where I land. Your priorities are a lot different
than they were a decade ago, too, right? Like,
you're a father. Yeah. You've got other people
that rely on you to do things that, whereas,
like, for a long time, you were just doing it
for you, and that's all you had to take care
of. And as somebody who... who is also a parent,
it changes things a lot. And being a parent does
change everything. In a lot of ways, it's hard
for me to remember a time before my kids were
born. Or I place them in the memory. It's like,
when my daughter was there when I was eight or
something. But at the same time, I'm still human
and entirely self -obsessed and selfish and whatever.
Yeah. And so... I'm here to do everything I can
for my kids. And definitely it's changed my headspace
of like, how long do I want to be out? My wife's
also a musician. So we also very much in our,
the DNA of our relationship was being apart.
Yeah. And so it can only take so much of each
other. Yeah. Yeah. And inevitably early on, I'd
be like, Oh, I'm gone for six months. I'm back
these two weeks. And she's like, I got to get
those two weeks. And you're like, Oh my gosh.
I really processed it a lot. okay i'm just like
a sailor i'm just like old like i'm on a wooden
boat just bopping from place to place and every
once in a while i'll come back and i go it was
a bad year sorry go back out and fun way to live
till it's not or till i think that was even something
i was seeing like it exploded A lot of my friends,
who also were either bandmates or whatever, or
buddies on tour, I was like, man, I'm keeping
it together for the most part, but am I built
differently that I can? But by way of inviting
other people in to do it, I'm actively destroying
them or something. The road destroys people.
Yeah, it's crazy. And for some people, it's...
six months and some people it's 10 years but
at some point you do have to go how do you know
when your limit has been reached i've been the
one of the main qualities for any human that
i actually like look for and i go okay this is
not like you're worthwhile or not but i meet
so few people that actually can and will change
i think the ability to actually actively change
is it's one of the hardest things to do superhero
level find out new information think about it
go i was wrong now i change and it is a rare
i'm not the best at it but i have some sliver
of that ability and so like my i think but i
do think it takes us it's not just information
probably it's like information and pain like
somewhere in there is the sweet spot where you're
like Oh, I can just like, I got Steven Seagal
just gently pushing my energy in a different
direction and sometimes it's like, oh man, I
ran into that brick wall and turned to dust and
then I have to like rebuild the whole thing.
Yeah, so I don't, I'm not like an expert at it.
I find out after the fact. Yeah, yeah. But you
try to learn from it and integrate that information.
Like a lot of people, I would never wish COVID
to happen. I can say that a lot of things currently
in my life that are positive came out of it.
Yeah, I'd have to say the same thing. For me
personally, that was one of those times where
I did change a lot and was really reflective
and was able to admit what I was wrong about.
And I think that was true for a lot of people.
When everything gets shut off and you're just
stuck with yourself. Man, a lot of people don't
get better until they're tired of their own shit.
And when you can't put that shit on other people,
you get tired of it a lot quicker. Yeah, I was
like, I travel around and have the same party
30 times. It's a lot less sad than if you try
to have that same party in your house 30 days
in a row. Starts to smell bad. Yeah, it sucks.
But, yeah, the COVID thing just really, I know
a lot of relationships didn't make it. It was
definitely wild to process myself, my relationship
with my kid. I only now have two, but at the
time it was just the one. And then the relationship
with my wife. Discovered meditation in a real
way then. And was able to tie it back to why
do I feel... For me, I've described it for a
long time without knowing what it was. The best
shows are ones... I know that I had a good show.
I walk off stage and I already basically can't
remember the show because it was just happening.
You were truly present. Yeah. Whatever was happening
was happening. Not that I didn't make mistakes
or do something bad. I feel like you had a moment
like that last night during Wanting. Yeah. During
the Wanting. Afterwards, you were like, I was
so lost in it that I don't even know if I played
the right chords. I know after the fact I stumbled
through some chords, but it was like... One of
the first times I really felt the weight of the
song and the way I did kind of initially writing
it. And I think that came through. The room was
electrified. Yeah. And I think that's why. Yeah.
I think you being present in that way and anytime
an artist can get to that place where they're
just there. Yeah. That's the goal, right? Yeah.
And to get the audience there too. This is what
I was getting at. All of a sudden, I'm not hitting
that maybe 100 times, 200 times a year. Like
actually a sort of zen kind of state. Didn't
know that's what it was. Just night to night
was like good show, bad show, whatever. Or good
parts of a show, bad or whatever. Sometimes it's
the whole time you're just in your brain. And
that's why versus I can barely remember the show
instantly. The bad shows, I could tell you every
second of it because I was going, like, I should
walk over here. Maybe I should say something.
Maybe, like, what's the next chord? Whatever.
And totally getting out in front of myself two
or three seconds and, like, planning what I was
going to do or something like that. And it just
sucks. Not really realizing that it's a lot of
the same thing with meditation. You start to
see the thoughts come in, and it's not that the
thoughts are bad. You just go, like... All right.
I'm going to come back to just observing and
being here instead of I have to pay this bill
or I'm fantasizing about a problem that I have
or something. And so when that stops happening
as much, that's a sign for you. Yeah, but I just
didn't realize that it was that. It was just
naturally taking me to a place where my brain
went from splintered. a hundred different ways
at any given time to pull together and body mind
everything just it's weird to describe one of
those shows as calm but instead of like i said
the lack of chaos did i pay that bill you know
like bad moments in shows i'm literally like
having 17 conversations in my head at the same
time where i messed up last night on this part
why is that guy over there look like he's sniffing
a fart like why isn't this person dancing oh
i wonder if i wonder how the wife and kids are
like all that going on i think at a given moment
if you could broadcast that to people they'd
be like how the hell is this guy playing anything
yeah yeah and on top of that i don't actually
know anything about music so every time i hit
the right chord it's yes that's gonna be good
for the confidence yeah yeah um Well, you obviously
also use humor like just talking to you, spending
time with you, and read another interview. Like,
you're a funny motherfucker. You obviously, humor
is part of your coping with the world, right?
And I think you write some really funny lyrics
sometimes, too. Is that intentional, or do you
ever write something and you're like, I want
this to be funny, or does it just come out that
way? I don't know if I've ever written anything
in gauntlet. people are gonna chuckle and fall
on the ground or something maybe clever is a
better word yeah i people like randy newman or
wherever where you're like or john prine or i
was talking about my buddy johnny fritz yeah
yeah johnny corndog these people that inside
of humor i think is a lot of the same stuff that's
good songwriting comes from where you're like
observing stuff yeah You can say it plainly,
and sometimes that's powerful, and then sometimes
you can say it in a humorous way. Growing up
in church, it would be like, my favorite people
were the people that a lot of times got discounted
because they were clever and funny. I do it a
lot in a solo show where it's like, tell a stupid
story and then drop a heavy song. Yeah, yeah.
So everybody's giggling, and then all of a sudden
they're like, what? I guess it's dynamics. I
don't know, but you have, but I always, it wasn't
just that they, it was kind of like, if this
guy takes himself really serious, for whatever
reason, everyone else assumes he's serious and
smart. Whereas the, but maybe they're ineffective
at actually doing anything. Whereas to me, the
people that can like tell a joke and inside the
joke or right after the joke, there's like also
this serious nugget. You're more open. You're
more available. Yeah. And I would say the best
jokes come from the most uncomfortable places.
If I'm being honest about something that I'm
maybe not even wanting to share with people,
finding a way to share that in a way that I'm
ultimately comfortable with, those are usually
the best jokes. Yeah. And probably the best songs
too, I would think. You're like hesitant to put
these ideas out there. Yeah. Do you know the
concept of laughter is like an inch off the mark
of a fear response? Yeah. And what are we afraid
of? Things that either we don't know or we weren't
expecting. But then we're humans and what are
we talking about? We're talking about ourselves.
So the idea of... either you're talking about
something someone thought no one else had ever
gone through. So they're surprised by the fact
that you know about them in a way that they,
you know, have never shared. Or you literally
are holding up a mirror in a way that someone,
it's like the first time someone sees their ass
or something. It's like, it looks like that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in there is, yeah, you're
like potentially also like people, if you miss
the mark you are actually scaring them and then
when they get scared it's anger or let's fight
yeah or i run away so yeah you're right on the
edge of like doing something that changes the
whole situation also i just think the idea of
say i don't and also i never i'm never on stage
with banter being like this will be funny i will
make someone laugh I think the idea that someone
gets up and goes, I know it's funny. I'll say
it. And then people will laugh is like the wildest,
scariest thing. I can even get up and do like
a sad song and know it's sad. And then people
can either be like, this guy's playing to the
crowd or I don't relate or whatever. But to get
up and be like, this is funny. And then someone
go, no, it's not. Neil Brennan describes it as
putting yourself through a car accident every
night. Yeah. Doing stand -up comedy. Yeah. Which,
have you ever wanted to do stand -up comedy?
Is that ever something that you, that ever crossed
your mind? When I was young, there was, it was
basically like music, outdoor stuff, and comedy.
So me and my buds were, I never was like, and
so let me, we did, we did like bits. Early on,
like BHS or whatever, camcorder stuff we had,
we'd write ridiculous things and, I don't know,
make a right turn instead of a left turn, butterfly
effect stuff. Could have chased that down. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Or was like obsessed with Saturday
Night Live and all that kind of stuff. So somewhere
in the same fantasy, I don't want to play music,
possibly was like, I'd love to be on Saturday
Night Live. Never. having actually ever done
that stuff I don't I don't know if I know I have
the skill set to do that thing where you like
actually sit down and I'm good in conversation
at being shocking or surprising or silly or funny
or witty or whatever I feel like that's a different
skill than say I don't know I feel so much of
comedy like we were just talking about is observation
I'm good at observing things yeah yeah but I
don't know if my processor is built to turn them
totally into jokes. I think the way it works
for me, and you saw it at one point this weekend,
it's like most of my jokes do come up conversationally.
Yeah. The trick and the struggle is like, A,
remembering that joke, writing it down, preserving
that moment. But then figuring out how to get
there, that's like organically on stage. Yeah.
And sometimes you can't. Sometimes that joke
will only exist in that moment. And that's fine
too. I do think there is this similar drive between
musicians and comedians. And maybe that's what
the core of this podcast is going to end up being
about in general. I think most comedians want
to be rock stars. I think most really good songwriters
are pretty fucking funny. And I think you're
right. The observational... And not even just
being an observational... observing yourself
too not just the outside but there's something
that's it's the same fire and as someone who
felt like they belonged in this world for years
and years and years and never i can't play guitar
i can't sing more than like a couple of karaoke
songs yeah but i always felt like this is where
i belong yeah and then and i think that's what
happens with comedians is like they They feel
like they don't belong anywhere except this one
place that they don't even necessarily have talent.
And then they go crazy. And then they start making
jokes about it. And then they finally become...
But I also think comedians and bands are hanging
out. They're just like... They're cut from the
same cloth. Yeah, I think it's... It is potentially
very similar or it is the same people or it is
maybe somebody who just gets their kicks punishing
themselves a different way. And some songwriters
can't sing, and that never stopped them. Yeah,
yeah. Some comedians are not funny, and they
are very successful. That actually brings me,
and I know you've got to get on the road here,
so we're going to wrap this up here in a minute,
but I think the thing that's unique about comedy
that is maybe not true for any other kind of
art is, and it goes back to what you were talking
about, it's just a hair off of fear. It's an
involuntary response. So I don't think Jeff Dunham
is funny. Right. But he's a funny motherfucker.
Like, he makes rooms of people laugh. And there's
something about that that is objective in a way
that I don't know any other art can be. Like,
I'm just interested to see what you think about
that. I do think, so, like this thing that I'm
doing, the house show thing. On paper, there's
another thing that I do that, or if you took
a picture of it, looked at the gear I brought,
the situation, the whole thing, you'd be like,
those are the same thing. But like, for a chunk
of money, I will play a private show. And the
private show, I don't care if it's you, I don't
care if it's you and 100 of your friends. At
a certain point, the price will change because
I can bring this and it's loud enough for 50
to 100 people. You're like, oh, I'm going to
have a 5 ,000 person party or something. It'd
be like, okay, we got to talk about bigger production
stuff or whatever. But generally, it would look
the same to an outside person. But in one of
those scenarios, I'm playing to one person and
49 of their friends are watching that person
watch me. So when I walk out on stage or I sing
this song or that or make a statement, this guy
is going, I can't believe this. I'm looking at
their friends and their friends are like, I can't
believe this. And they're like, we can or whatever.
I walk in their room. 50 fans that also have
seen me multiple times in a 2000 seat or whatever
and they're like i can't all 50 people going
i can't believe this it turns everything i say
into something funny or clever or reactive versus
i guess my point is i don't know necessarily
why certain people get over some hump and then
they have this thing where like their people
show up And then potentially that can feed into
more and more of their people showing up. But
once someone has said, I like this, it's like
they want to like it. So it makes, you sit there
just like hoping that your favorite musician
says something that you can go, whoa, or laugh
at, or go, oh my God. Versus even in a scenario
of music lovers, if you're the opener, you don't
have the same power as the headliner. Yeah, yeah.
And I'm sure it's the same with comedians or
whatever, where it's. no one's trying to like
what you do or no one's trying to laugh at what
you say. And all of a sudden, I think that is
probably where some of these guys are. They hit
some level of success and they don't really have
to say funny stuff anymore. They just have to
generally be themselves. People want to like
it. They want to enjoy it. That's interesting.
I live in this world where I'm constantly either
the most important person in the room to someone.
People think I'm, literally, we were just talking
about replacements. I'm like, I played, J. Ryan
Business played the last three replacement shows.
Finally, after the last show, I was like, I'm
going to go talk to these guys, tell them how
important they were, and thank them for being
on stage. And when I walked up, I was like, hey
guys. And they were like, we're good. Like, they
thought I was a backstage hand. Even though we
played three shows. All my buddies were like,
I can't believe it. You're so lucky. I'm freaking
out. And this wasn't like, they didn't pluck
us out of obscurity. We were doing really well
at that time. Yeah, yeah. So, but, had been walking
around, crowd being like, holy crap, blah, blah,
blah. For Paul to look at you and just... Nah,
we're good, man. We're set up. That's humbling.
That's the kind of shit that brings you back
down to earth at the same time. But yeah, yeah,
yeah. I've been rejected by a lot of my heroes.
Man, all right. You got anything you want to
plug? Are you still booking these shows? If people
want you to come play in their living room, can
they reach out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This has been
like, I was talking about last night, it's been
an experiment, and I think I have, there's like
a lot of people, like when I said I would do
house shows, I got a lot of replies. But it was
through social media, and I was, like a guy that
was here last night was like, yeah, I was talking
to you about a bunch, and then it fell off, and
I was like, dude. That's one of the main things
I've got to figure out is the communication not
being through social media because I'm chatting
with you and then all of a sudden I post something
and it gets like 1 ,700 likes and all of a sudden
our chat is buried way down this thing versus
my email. And you're going to five different
houses in a month or in a couple of weeks. Until
you're there and seeing us or meeting with us,
we're all the same kind of... There's a bunch
of people that were as far down the road as the
moment with you where it was like, okay, boom,
let's build the ticket thing. Whatever your address
was. And all of a sudden I was like, okay, brass
tacks, let's get all the info. And then it's,
for real, let's say a number. How many people
are you comfortable having in your house? And
I'm sure we had talked about it early on. And
it was like, yeah, so I'm shooting for 50. And
they're like, oh, no, no, no. My wife would kill
me if there was more than 10 people here. I was
like, dude. What are we doing? We talked for
so long about this and now. And so there is.
I will say there was this moment when we got
to that like final stage. Yeah. Where there was
like a little, I don't want to say hesitation,
but it was like, okay, this is becoming real.
Yeah. And I think a lot of people fantasize about
the idea of having somebody play in their living
room. And then when it becomes real, they're
like, oh shit, can I actually do this? Yeah.
And it's so different night to night. You know,
I mean, you saw, I got here late last night,
so I had a blast through that setup and like
NASCAR freaking. Everybody was having a blast
though. And I think, I think they enjoyed watching
you do all your, your thing. Yeah. I mean, I
guess one more peel, peel back the layers. My
buddy, Sean, he's a, he's an amazing producer.
He was fascinated by your keyboard setup. Oh,
cool. You know, just, just watching you set it
up. He thought it was awesome. So the, yeah,
the, the house show thing, it's been part of
it. I don't really have anything to plug, but
the thing that I'm experimenting with or trying
to mess with is beyond the sort of, I want to
do something different. I'm trying to keep myself
engaged. And I don't know if entertained is the
right way to put it, but if you play the same
show and like, maybe let's say there's 20 variations
of any given kind of setup at a club, but you've
also played. every club in america like 50 times
it's kind of it's sad but you can get to the
point where you're just going through emotions
or like on a tuesday night it's just a job and
so this is even with okay i sold the tickets
to the same website it is at a house but like
every house has been something that was different
yours split into a v and then i'm in the corner
versus some shotgun house that's okay i either
have to set up in the middle and there's going
to be like only enough space for one person like
right here and so half the show i'm gonna be
looking at one guy and half the crowd is actually
looking at my ass the whole time or whatever
and so it's a whole different and then where
do i even position the speakers like it's all
let alone like time to do this show and anyways
so there's the thing that's just for me okay
this is making it exciting every time on top
of that A lot of what I'm interested in is what
we were talking about earlier, not on the podcast,
about the thing that I observed and initially
didn't appreciate. In fact, I was annoyed by
the Drive -By Trucker shows where this crowd
just talks so much. Right, right. Maybe in a
two -hour set, any given person will shut up
for like... Three songs because those are their
song songs. Yeah, they'll be talking and you
can observe me like I love that line But I just
didn't really appreciate I never thought it was
necessarily my a part of my Job is the right
way to put it. But like the community building
thing was not on my Radar in any real way. I
thought yeah here's what I do I write these songs
that really matter to me hopefully they matter
to you and then I want to put on or be a part
of a show where everyone's entranced and you
have to shut up and if anyone's not shutting
up and if anyone's not dancing or fully in what
are we not doing yeah yeah and then people they
buy the merch and then they walk out of the building
and then they hopefully talk to their friends
about how transformative experience or something
they had not Oh, to go back to the truckers thing,
like truckers like bat signal for, are you 40
and drink IPA? Show up here and your people will
be here. Yeah, yeah. And being progressive and
stuff like that, I think is a big part of it.
Yeah. I mean, I almost described it as it's like
what some religions wish they had, like this
imagined community of people that they know they're
going to get along with. Yeah. And can trust
a little bit. Even with that. Churches are falling
apart. I don't really want to get into an argument
about whether or not there should be churches,
but we are more and more separated. And then
we are going through this thing of the internet
making people think they are connected. But they're
not. Not that the internet can't bring you or
connect you to people in a way it can. But the
general way that most people are using the internet
is not. making them closer to anyone yeah and
so that was a big part of this there was people
that kind of kept hitting me i'd be like i could
i can just get you in this club i want you to
come to my town once you play here we can get
400 people and it's that's not what i'm doing
this time right now what i'm trying to do right
now is personally interact with people find out
some stuff observe people and in my maybe in
my own mind trying to figure out what's Because
I don't know that I have that thing where it's
way reductive to be like, are you 40 and IPA?
No, but we understand. I don't know that I have
that. I've never had that thing where everyone
who walked into one of my shows is like, oh,
this is all the same people. I will say, though,
one of the things that first attracted me to
your band was you do have a very... The people
that love your band love you. You have very devout
fans there. that fucking love your music yeah
and and that's something that i have experienced
like i've been a part of since i was a teenager
i was followed a band that was had an obsessive
fan base and the truckers obviously have an obsessive
fan base and and to me like that's a really good
marker of like somebody who's doing shit yeah
i think i do think there's something that's what
i'm getting at is that i don't know if there's
a single thing or if it's I don't think there
has to be. X, Y, and Z or whatever. The thing
could be that they love their music. That could
be the thing. And that is a potential thing or
a possibility. But also what I was getting at,
too, is I want people in that room who maybe
have been in the same room to see me 20 times
to potentially finally look to their left or
their right and go, hey, my name's Greg, blah,
blah, blah. I made a bunch of friends. I met
people that had never been to my house before,
and now they'll be back. I'll be fucking with
those people. And that was, I had the, when I
went out with my buddies, Murder by Death, and
I walked around. So that tour, I literally took
no merch out. It was the first real run of shows
I'd done post my breakdown of, I don't know what
I want to do anymore. but part of that thing
I was still going to. You know what? Merch sucks.
I'm not doing merch anymore. So I had a lot of,
I'd play, I'd grab my stuff, and then I was just
walking around, and I'd gab with a lot of people,
and there were people there that were like, I
don't care what this band, I care what this band
does, but I actually don't care. I will always
be at all their shows, I'll buy all their stuff,
I'll do whatever it takes to support them, because...
I met this person, and I met this person, and
I met this person. We don't live in the same
state, but these are my people, and I met them.
That's why I go to Athens every year, man. There's
differences, I think. The crowd, seeing the drop
-by truckers in Athens, is the antithesis of,
I think, probably what you experienced a lot
on tour with them, because these are all people
that, like, it's their pilgrimage, right? Sure.
These are all people that are... This was that
kind of event. This was in a cave. Oh, yeah.
I'm going to see them in August in the caverns,
man. I'm excited. I've never been there. It's
incredible. They let me sleep there that night.
Some sort of 80s camp staff. They were all drinking
and hanging out and whatever. It was like a movie
afterwards. Then they locked up and I slept there.
The band plays, I think... to that crowd in a
different way. Like their shows are special,
but a big part of why we all go there is to see
each other. Sure. And this thing, I was like,
Adam, because Adam's a really clever dude. And
I was like, you're not on the Caverns thing.
What's the deal? And he's like, we bought the
room. Like we are the promoter. We went all in.
And it's like big. It's expensive to buy the
place. And I said, do you know where everybody's
coming from? Because it's near Nashville, but
not totally. And he's like, yeah. And I was like,
how many people live near this cave? And he's
like, oh, it's 90 % people flying in from out
of state because he could see it. And so that
crowd was very much, this is one of our big events
now. And so it was that sort of. I've dreamed
of seeing a show there. I'm so excited. And it's
a really special place. It's really cool. And
all that really, what I was getting at is like
that particular conversation just really. hit
me where i was just like man i just i don't even
know if people i don't know if there's someone
who's i'll always love what rod does because
i met my wife at a show or whatever when i go
back now i can think of times where people are
like our first date was at your show or something
or we said let's go on a date and then i suggested
the show and she was a big fan and he was a big
fan that's when we knew but i never really processed
so i'm important to you because of this so Not
in a way. I'm not sitting there. I'm hoping people
show up and tell me the story of how important
I am to them. It's more like, oh, what can I
do to like... Create those connections. Yeah,
like really, because... Or foster them at least.
I know I'm a strange cat. I have lots of acquaintances
and I have a few friends, you know? But when
I find people I connect with, I'm just like,
whatever it takes. I'll murder for you or whatever.
So the idea of potentially creating a moment
where someone, after being next, literally had
this idea. Like the first night of the first
house show, I walked by and the person was like
talking to someone else. Oh, I see you at the
Christmas show. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We get
a party bus. Let me get your number. You can
be on the party bus. This is exactly what I wanted
to happen. Yeah. I told you earlier today, this
made me love my house more. Yeah, that's cool.
This house sucks, dude. It does. Yeah, I've had
to do a lot to fucking make me like it. But it's
like keeping things... They go back to the Truckers
and something they did recently to keep things
fresh, and I think... Because it's almost like
the other side of what you're talking about.
They're a band that never plays with a set list.
They never... I've never... I've seen them over
a hundred times. They've never played the same
show until they did the Southern Rock Opera tour.
And I saw that tour four times. Yeah. That is
the first time I've ever seen them play the same
show more than once. And that was new. That was
new. Yeah, yeah. But then, now that they're not
doing it anymore, the rest of their catalog,
it's like they're in love with it again. Yeah.
And this ties back to the thing I was talking
about on an episode that you haven't heard yet.
I haven't released it. But about these reunion
tours and these nostalgia. Yeah. Flaming Lips
doing Yashimi. Yeah, yeah. Truckers doing Southern
Rock Opera. bright eyes is on tour right now.
And I think it's these people who are actually
revisiting a lot of what you're talking about.
Like somebody who fucking met at one of your
shows, go back to your show. And it's like a,
the memory, like, or like people go to see bright
eyes. Cause like they fell in love to that band
and, you know, and high in college or whatever.
And so I think like you're, you're you're hitting
the nail on the head first of all i think you're
if your goal is to to do that then you're accomplishing
that yeah fuck yeah but also i just think it's
interesting how different artists do different
like completely different things yeah both of
them like their everyday touring like yeah set
list no set list or whatever and then also okay,
we're going to go play this album that we've
never played all the way through in 20 years.
Or I'm going to go play at house. I haven't done
solo shows in 20 years. I'm going to go do house
shows and I'm going to really foster these connections.
And I think both of them are doing the same thing.
Yeah. In different ways. But I think if you're
like, you're revisiting something or building
something that isn't necessarily tangible. Like
for me, there's also this thing where Someone
would be like, you did this and you did this
and now you're doing this and now you're doing
this. I'm not zooming out and looking at my life
in some sort of like, how do I tell the story?
I'm in the middle of it. So the high points,
the low points, the whatever, that's just that
Thursday, that one week, that one year. It's
not like me marking. how close am i to retiring
or whatever yeah i don't have this like observational
measurement whatever like this is no different
than playing some festival than getting some
or even even in the course of like why did that
one record work it's like there's no reason that
record worked like to me i was never shooting
lower there was definitely like like last night
people were asking for songs i wrote when i was
19. i'm 44. But also I played the song I wrote
last week. And it's like, I can't tell you why
anything works. And that's not my job. And my
job is to freaking look at it and then talk about
it. And sometimes talking about it is obscuring
it in a way that someone has to dig so hard that
they figure out something about themselves. And
sometimes it's just saying it plainly. But I
don't think. I think we've lost a lot in the
sense of the difference between what an artist
is here for and our obsession with easy sugar.
Just like, let's get entertained. Yeah, give
me my dopamine fix, my flavor of the week. Yeah.
And I like to be entertained. Last night we numbed
out and watched a big dumb movie. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. There's times where I want that. Of course,
yeah. But then that's not the same as... an artist
actually like doing something or changing my
life so that's almost like a recharge in a way
or yeah i don't know and in the same way that
i don't think you should be entertained all the
time i don't think you can get your life changed
by art every five seconds yeah yeah or we just
be yeah that happens you're just consuming shit
all the time yeah or like looking for answers
when Your life is happening to you. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. And some of that, it's literally like,
I thought I was going to be in New Orleans writing
and recording for the last three days, but instead
I was living in a way that it's like, what the
hell just happened to me? As I process it...
New Orleans is like that, though. And so, anyways,
yeah, again, I guess you were like, let's finish
up, do you have anything to plug? And it was
just more like... Not necessarily my shows or
the idea of doing more house shows. I'm also
playing club shows. You're doing a Chicago show
soon, right? Yeah, that'll be a two -week run
of stuff. But I guess what I was getting at is
I guess I'm just wanting people to connect. I
don't really know how to plug that other than
put your phone down. find a situation where maybe
it's not weird to actually like that thing of
going out to a bar to be alone is uninteresting
to me now yeah you know yeah yeah and this scenario
something like this house show seems like all
it's so different that all those rules are they're
gone suspended yeah no it's so weird because
it just is someone who goes to a bunch of shows
yeah talking to it straight like We're there
for the same reason. We obviously both love this
band. You have something in common. But still
starting a conversation with those people is
weird. It's literally, hey man, don't go over
there. There's a weirdo that's talking to everybody
or something. Whereas last night, it would have
been fucking weird if we didn't talk to each
other. It's like the opposite. Can I get in your
fridge? Can I pee here? And I'm like, I don't
like the alternative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Using
your hand towels. Yeah, I think, again, I'm not
anti -bar, I'm not anti -restaurant, I'm not
anti -whatever, but I guess that is the experiment.
I'm pushing myself into places that it's different
enough that it breaks all my typical patterns
and cycles. it's easy to just have that's the
design of modern life in America is I can go
to the same coffee shop in every town because
literally there's a Starbucks in every town so
I can walk in I can say my order it will taste
the same I'm out the door and so to search for
that weird stuff and that like non processed
non just homogenized version of of the world
is it's more difficult it's weird there's more
it's weird it's weird that it's more difficult
to get fresh organic food than not yeah like
one of them takes maybe more work in the sense
of you got to care for it but you don't have
to have technology to have an apple but here
we are and it's like i now have to have like
apps to figure out if this thing saying it's
organic is lying to me or what i don't know anyway
the point is like it shouldn't be that hard experience
life where every store is different and everybody's
hamburger tastes different and everybody's whatever
it is. Have it be organic and natural and real.
Some weird industrial person decided that they
knew that everyone's afraid all the time and
they can give you a safe experience and everybody
just said, yeah, let's go. You could have murdered
me last night. I don't think I have the means
if I think about it. No, there's a nice knife
set over there, but I definitely don't have it
in me. I don't want to get murdered. I'm not
like, every night, let's see. But it definitely
is like, it's different even than crashing with
a band. Where you're like, there's four or five
of us, this guy. There's been a few times where
he showed up at our house and like the second
the person who invited us over laid down, we
were all like, we gotta get the hell out of here.
Yeah, to be fair, I half expected you to be gone
when I woke up this morning. I need your help
carrying the heavy stuff. Hell yeah, man. Let's
do this. I got one last question for you. You
still love Red Bull and NyQuil? Still fuck with
that? No. The combinations of chemicals have
changed for sure. Yeah, I was experimenting.
Thank you so much for being here, Roddy. I really
appreciate it, man. This is fantastic. Guys,
if you have a house that can host a show, get
in touch with this guy. He'll throw the best
fucking party you've ever had. All right, man.
Thanks for having me. Thank you. Let's get you
loaded out. Yeah. Well, that was my interview
with J. Roddy Walston from back of March of last
year. I've gotten better with some of my editing
software, so I wanted to remaster a few episodes
here and there. I'll be doing one of these every
few weeks. Some of them came out great early
on. Some of them just needed a little bit of
tweaking, and this was one of them. It's also
interesting to go back and listen to my first
interviews again. I think I've gotten better,
but I think those early ones held up too. Thanks
for listening. Hit that subscribe button. We
got Justin Long coming up later this week. He's
from a band I worked with as a kid called No
Address, New Address when they were local. He's
now playing in the Petty Nicks Experience for
several years now. He's an artist development
instructor. He has been a producer as long as
I've known him. So we had a great talk about
everything from the old Tallahassee music scene
to what he's up to now. So check that episode
out. Hit that subscribe button. Check out the
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listening.