I think that's when it occurred to me is this
is legitimately some people's all time favorite
band. And I can never phone in a show because
people work hard for their money. And if they're
going to lay down their money, especially for
something that they love so much, I don't want
to let them down. Welcome to Overeducated and
Underemployed. Hope you dig the new theme song.
Sloan Brothers knocked it out of the park. I
love it. I hope y 'all do too. Make sure to check
out Sloan Brothers' new record, Love and Other
Diagnosis. It's available on streaming platforms,
but also check out the band camp. Get the vinyl.
This week we got Brian Howard from Cracker. He's
a voice actor. Does a bunch of amazing... Played
in a bunch of amazing bands all over Athens,
Georgia, and up in Alexandria, Virginia, where
he grew up. But we had a great talk. I really
enjoyed talking to him. I feel like most of the
people I've had on here, there's going to be
a follow -up one day. Whatever we didn't get
to, we'll get to next time. To celebrate the
30th anniversary of their album, The Golden Age.
Cracker's doing the camping in March, so check
that out. Got links to Brian's website. and everything
in the description. Thanks for tuning in. Hit
that subscribe button. We're on Overeducated
and Underemployed. I'm here with Brian Howard.
He's a musician, a voice actor. You're the bass
player for Cracker for over a decade now. And
I want to learn way more, so that's why we're
here. I'm going to ask you the same question
I ask everybody to start with, and that's what's
the first song that you remember loving as a
kid? The first song I remember loving as a kid,
it was probably something like, I was really
into, I loved the Coward of the County, I think
is probably the first one I really remember.
Because I think the first two records I bought
were Urban Chipmunk and Kenny Rogers' Greatest
Hits. Gotcha. Yeah. And about how old were you,
do you know? Oh, probably seven, eight, something
like that. Okay. And were you really into music
in general already? I was a fan of music, but
it wasn't what it has become. It wasn't my world
or anything. Were you banging on pots and pans
or playing? Were you interested in playing it
or were you just listening to it? Not at that
point, really. I guess I started playing when
I was in... But fourth grade, I joined a Fife
and Drum Corps. Oh, cool. Yeah, so. I'm a big
Otha Turner fan, so. Like, I love that stuff,
yeah. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, and then when my mom
and my stepfather had reconnected, I remember
watching them, and she was showing him how to
play a scale on the piano. And then that, I started
messing around with the piano after that, because
it started to make sense. Gotcha. Gotcha. Were
you interested in going to see live music as
a kid? Once Purple Rain came out. That was my
first concert was Prince. Wow. The Purple Rain
tour. That's wild. That was the turning point.
That was the thing that did it. Yeah. Dude came
up from an elevator from under the stage and
had thousands of people in the palm of his hand.
He died on my birthday. Worst birthday ever.
And I hate the fact that some of the stuff has
come out because clearly he didn't want it out.
But I also love the fact that some of the stuff
has come out. I think the concert, I think it
was like a night of maybe three or four shows.
So one of the shows is actually on YouTube now.
I saw it at the Capitol Center. Wow. You ever
seen Heavy Metal Parking Lot? Yes. Yeah. That
was where I saw my first concert. I actually
think some of those people went to school with
me. That's incredible. How did you even, how
were you there? Like, what got you there? Did
your parents take you? I went with my brother
and his girlfriend at the time. She's the one
that stayed in line for hours and hours. and
got the tickets for us. And yeah, that was my
very first concert in March of 84, I think. So
how have you ever been satisfied ever since?
I feel like it's all downhill from there. I mean,
it was a great place to start, but that was what
really started the whole thing. And what was
the first instrument that you wanted? Was it
guitar? Because he's such an amazing guitar player.
The first thing I took lessons on was saxophone.
Okay. Yeah. In school. So I played saxophone
for several years. And then I started messing
around with guitar. Were you playing sax, like,
in rock music? No. Okay. School stuff, very beginner.
Yeah, yeah. Symphonic band stuff like that. Yeah.
And I assumed that. Cuba, I think, my senior
year of high school. Oh, cool. Cool. In fact,
funny thing. You're a big guy, so they probably
just stuck. I don't think my mom liked that.
I feel like if I had been in band, they would
have put me in a tuba immediately. What's wild
was I was second or third chair. And first chair
was this guy, Michael Nickens, who's known as
Doc Nix. And he has a video that you've probably
seen his pep band playing Rage Against the Machine.
It's pretty old at this point. We were on the
same high school band. Nice, nice. So you went
and saw Prince. You started playing saxophone.
But then you got into guitar. What was the kind
of turning point from saxophone into wanting
to play rock and roll music? When I was in Fife
and Drum Corps, that's when I started. I got
my first band. So Andrew McCain, who's one of
the guys who moved to Georgia with me, we would
have band practices over at his house after.
You'll hear me say the guard because that's what
the Fife and Drum Corps was called, the Mount
Vernon Guard. So we would have rehearsals over
at his place after guard performances. And on
the weekends, we actually practiced a good bit.
And it was that was when. I started messing around
with guitar. At the time, in that band, I started
off as the drummer. Okay. And my friend Chris
Anderson, who was the bass player at the time,
decided he wanted to play drums. And I was trying
to give him all these great arguments and reasons
why he should stick with bass. And he essentially
said, if it's so great, why don't you do it?
Got a point. as well so that's how that started
but my brother -in -law is a fantastic bass player
and you grew up in alexandria correct okay just
outside of dc you're you're going to were you
going to other shows or was that that just kind
of like a once in a while thing we started playing
shows at a unitarian church they had the their
coffee house i think i was like like one Friday
out of the month. So that was how we really started
playing out. And then we started getting a little
more serious about it, and we booked a show at
this Mexican restaurant. I think it was called
Tio Pedro. And they booked us, and our crowd
was underage, and there was a good bit of drinking,
so it was an issue. So it happened once. We were
supposed to be almost like a residency kind of
thing. And being in the D .C. area, we looked.
A few weeks later, there was a band playing there
called Fugazi, which apparently was a mariachi
band. But you can imagine being in the D .C.
area, lying around the block. And then after
doors, people freaking out and getting pretty
upset that it wasn't Fugazi. Yeah. Yeah. So we
had the one night at Tio Pedro's. Remind me the
name of the, so you started a band with a few
of your friends and y 'all moved here. The band
I moved to Georgia with is called Slack Daddy.
Slack Daddy, that's right. I knew it was, I couldn't,
it was just on the tip of my tongue, sorry. And
that was in? 1996. 96, okay. So we've, I don't
want to skip too much here. Is there, like what,
what's going on between this? Mexican restaurant
gig and and stuff the beginning and moving to
Athens what was the what tell me that story we
all everyone in the band after high school we
went our separate ways but we would still get
together over the summers and I went to school
with a guy named Cecil Conley James Madison University.
And he put on a festival called Cecil Fest to
celebrate his birthday. And he booked us. So
we went and a friend of ours, Caroline Pru, came
and she filmed it. And we watched it and it was
a pretty good performance. And that's what encouraged
us to... Maybe we should try this for real. So
we decided that it was after Andrew graduated,
we were going to move to Georgia. And that's
what we did. We were all in different places
when we signed the lease. With facts. Because
he was in, he went to Amherst, so he was in Massachusetts.
The drummer, Ian Worden, he was in Guam. And
I was in Harrisonburg, Virginia. And then we
made this decision based on the love of music
and basically that Cecil Fest performance. And
that was basically like a one -off reuniting
kind of thing that your friend got you to do.
We played. You still played together some after
high school? Okay. But it was fun. We played
as much as we could, but we didn't really...
It sounds like that was geographically challenging,
to say the least. We would play at Harrisonburg
and other places during the summer. But we didn't
do a whole lot of real traveling until we moved
to Georgia. Gotcha. Gotcha. What was it about
Georgia that... Kevin Kinney. That was what it
was for me. When I went to JMU, one of my best
friends, Andrew Stitt, was my... roommate and
another musician amy dominguez who's still active
yeah in the dc area she played with i i randomly
saw her in athens one day she was playing cello
with mary timoney but i'm not sure what i know
she she still plays i think she's very involved
in classical music and play the cello de gambo
She does neat stuff, from what I see. Yeah, it
sounds like it. She brought over a copy of McDougal
Blues. And my roommate and I listened to it.
It was probably about three times in a row. Just
absolutely loved this record. And after the whole
Cecil Fest thing, and we were trying to decide
where to go, he kept saying, Andy Stitt, that
is, was like, you should go to Athens, Georgia.
He would play the Athens, Georgia Inside Out
soundtrack all the time to kind of encourage
it. And then when I found out that Kevin Kinney
lived in Athens, I was like, oh, let's go check
it out. So did you visit first? Repeatedly? No,
we came down once. You came down once. Came down
once, and we went to see it. We saw Harvey Milk
at the Atomic. And we saw a band called Funkomatic
at the 40 Watt Club. And I think we had lunch.
It was like 5. box going in there on the beer
so we're like yeah this this will work yeah we
actually didn't move into Athens proper we lived
in Comer okay okay for a year year and a half
something like that but but you found it affordable
you found it to have the the scene that you were
looking for and and people that you admired and
respected oh yeah Was there any other, was anybody
arguing for any other city? Was there any other,
was there debate about it? Not really. I think
we had talked about maybe two or three cities.
Asheville, I think, was something that was considered.
But I think Athens was like, let's go and check
it out and see what that's. What was it like?
What was this entering a scene like that that's
pretty well established already? You know what?
One of the reasons we chose Athens was because
it was 1996. The Olympics were going on. So we
figured all the clubs would be packed. Instant
fame, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
International audience coming to you. Yeah, exactly.
So that was another big reason why it was Athens.
We didn't take into account how difficult it
was going to be to rent places then. That's why
we wound up in Comer. Interesting. Because they
had a lot of the events. here in in they i think
they had like rhythmic gymnastics they had i
think soccer okay or at least women's soccer
because we were playing at a place called wishbones
when was it the women's team won it was a brandy
chastain whipped off the top a huge roar and
it was right as we finished the song we're all
like there's no way people here to make that
kind of sound for us but yeah so i bet it felt
good for a minute But it was rhythmic gymnastics.
I think maybe like kayaking or something. There
were a few events here in town. Yeah, yeah. So
after the kind of the Olympics blows over, you're
able to move into Athens proper. But you were
having the realization of the Olympics when I
asked you this the first time. But what was it
like to move to a city as a band that already
had such an established scene, I mean, everybody
had these. Was it welcoming? Did you find it
hard to break in? No. Weird story how we got
our very first show. Again, I was in the Fife
and Drum Corps with Andrew. And we went to Ireland
four times to perform the St. Patrick's Day Parade.
But we travel around. We both worked at a steak
delivery place called Steak Out. This is weird.
Our manager was a guy we called Irish Dave because
he was from Ireland. And we were talking about
it. And we're like, so where in Ireland are you
from? He's like, oh, Galway. I said, oh, yeah,
I've been to Galway. He's like, oh, really? I
said, yeah. Remember the statue of the Galway
hooker? I was like, and we stayed at a hotel
called Flannery's. And he's like, oh, I know
Flannery's. I was like, you don't know Frankie
Flannery, do you? And he's like, holy crap, Frankie
Flannery. He's like, if you're Frankie Flannery,
then I have to help you get a gig. And he got
us a gig at Flanagan's. And that was our very
first show. And it was a weird coincidence that,
like, the one guy in Ireland I happen to know
by name was also known by this dude. That stuff
just happens, man. The world is a weird place.
And it's, I don't know, telling this stuff is
making me real. Yeah, that's pretty serendipitous.
Yeah. So your first gig's at Flanagan's. Flanagan's.
And is this during the Olympics still? I think
that, no. Okay. What other bands were you playing
with at the time? What was the scene like? When
we moved to town, we pretty much only played
with Slack Daddy. Okay. I didn't start playing
out. Really with other bands until it was apparent
that Slack Daddy was going different ways and
different directions. What other bands was Slack
Daddy playing with, though? On the bills and
stuff like that. Who was in the scene at the
time? There was a band called Space Voyage of
Him that we played with. Nice. Oh, I mean, there
were just so many. I'm trying to think of somebody
we played with a lot. It was, well, it's going
to, we got around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm
just curious. Carl Lindbergh used to put on a
festival called the Shanti Festival. I don't
know if you're familiar with it. I've heard of
it, yeah. So one year, when we moved, when we
were living out in the country in Comer, we're
like, hey, you can do the festival out here.
And he came out to check it out. He's like, oh,
you know, it's cool and all, but I think it's
just a little too far out of town, so we're probably
going to pass. And I think two weeks, a week
or so before the show, we saw flyers for it,
and they were directions to our place. Wow. So
I guess they changed their mind. So a lot of
folks that played in that scene, we didn't limit
it to anyone. Anyone that was willing to play
with us, we would. Southern Bitch, there's just
a lot of bands. Yeah, there's probably hundreds.
Oh, yeah. Just trying to recall the names is
the thing that's throwing me. Yeah, no, and that's
fine. We don't have to dwell on that. They can
go watch documentaries and stuff. I guess I was
getting more curious if there was anybody of
note that you remembered more, not just... But
yeah, it sounds like the scene was super welcoming
to y 'all when you got here. It wasn't like they
were gatekeeping or to outside. outsiders or
anything like that and i've never experienced
anything like that here either i i i'm just curious
i feel like that's a dynamic that there's individual
musicians that move here a lot i don't hear about
a whole band moving here very often yeah it was
for the most part it was very welcoming and it
just once we started getting into the scene and
attending more shows and it became easier to
book yeah yeah What were some of the venues that
you remember that maybe aren't around anymore
that you thought were really important to the
scene back then? When I went, definitely the
Atomic. Then Tasty World came around not too
long after we moved to town. That's gone. It's
not that they had a ton of shows at the Engine
Room, but I remember the Engine Room being really
important to the Athens music scene. I'm trying
to think of where else. We started doing an open
mic night when there was the Athens Brewing Company.
I was surprised there wasn't an open mic night
when we came here. Oh, interesting. But that
place was crazy because they let us run it, so
here we are in this brewery. There was no one
really taking money down there, and we had access
to all the home brews. It could get pretty rowdy
at times. Yeah, yeah. At what point did you start
playing with other bands? Or I guess, what happened
to Slack Daddy? What's the story there? It's
just one of those things, just time. Andrew got
married and he moved. It was a little, he didn't
move far from town. He just moved to, what was
it, Jefferson? But it was far enough that it
made it a little difficult to get together regularly.
just life it wasn't there was no animosity or
anything like that and i had already started
doing some stuff with kevin kenney gotcha and
and how did you meet kevin because it sounds
like that was like a goal of yours when you moved
here it took two years to actually see him play
after moving here but i was working at the 40
watt and cheap trick was playing and i was 41
yeah And I was working at the back door, and
people were like, oh, that's Robin Zander. Oh,
Bunny Carlos. I was like, is that Kevin Kinney?
They're like, oh, yeah, I see him all the time.
So they used to tell us back then, always carry
a cassette of your stuff because you never know
who you're going to run into. And that's what
I did. So I gave Kevin a cassette of Slack Daddy's
stuff. I was like, if you ever need a bass player,
let me know. And then I think a year later, his
manager, Scott Munn, came and found me at the
Forty Wattens. Kevin wants you to play on Peacemaker.
I think maybe it was just Peacemaker at this
show. So I learned it and showed up. And then
I think it was like Greg Hester and someone else.
And we're hanging out backstage and Kevin's like,
oh, let's just all go out together. Kevin's the
master. Fake it till you make it. So we never
played Peacemaker. I made it through that show,
and I remember thinking, I guess I whiffed that
one. I'll never hear from him again. And then
maybe a few months after that, Scott came back
down and was like, Kevin wants to know if you
can go out and do a few shows. Tim's not able
to do it. It was for the Broken Hearts and Auto
Parts tour. Okay. And then I went out and did
that. So when... Your other band breaks up, you're
just ready to go do whatever with whoever at
that point. And at that point, did that become
a more regular thing with Kevin? Yeah. You started
touring with them for how many years? Eight,
about eight years. Yeah, okay. And I'm sure that
there wasn't a lot of room for other bands in
that time? No, it was... I played with some other
folks in town. Craig Liskey. Any project he would
ask me to do, he was the guy. Craig was, man,
Craig was like a really good friend of mine.
I fucking loved that guy. One of my favorites.
And he was the one that kind of impressed upon
me that it's just music. No one's going to die
from bad notes. And that kind of, when you start
thinking about it, that way you'd be less. fearful
of wanting everything to be perfect and people
just want it to be good i think i don't think
anyone's necessarily worried about perfection
they just want a good show he he also just had
this this energy about him that i feel like really
helped people feel like they could do anything
and he was great at putting people together oh
you should meet so -and -so for sure for sure
So yeah, there were a lot of play with other
bands. There's a band called Jackpot City that
I wound up playing a good number of shows with.
Did you play with Thundercrack? I did not. Okay,
I'm just curious. I did a few shows with Mother
Jackson. Okay, yeah, yeah. Whoever was asking,
I was willing to give it a shot. And then I did...
So, very first show I go out on with Kevin. When
we went out on that run, he was asking me who
some of my favorite bass players were. I was
like, oh, James Jamerson, Carol Kay, Brian Ritchie.
And he's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
You mean Brian Ritchie from the Violent Femmes?
I was like, yeah, I just love what he does. He's
one of my best friends from high school. I was
like, no way. So eventually, Kevin put me in
touch with Brian. And I was like, you should
really invite him out to a show. I did. So I
was playing with Sarah Lee Guthrie and her husband,
Johnny Iron at the time. And he came and he showed
up and he stood at the side of the stage the
whole time. And afterwards he said, yeah, I could
hear my influence. So he's been a good friend.
That's hilarious. After that show, we talked
for a while. We're playing in Charlotte on. October
29th oh you want to come out and play bass on
Gone Daddy Gone so I can do the xylophone stuff
yeah absolutely and then I kept getting emails
I want you to play on this tune as well and on
this tune so I was wound up doing almost like
half the show with them then I show up at sound
check and he's like okay we're gonna do a Coltrane
tune i got myself into plus it's a halloween
show so the violent films are one of my favorite
bands but the first time i'm on stage everyone
in the audience is dressed like demons and ghouls
and stuff so it was it was quite an experience
but they played with our orchestra a couple years
ago it was fantastic we just went to see them
in atlanta a few months ago oh nice so orchestra
show i you your list of favorite bass players
is just reconfirming this theory that i've gotten
i'm going to derail the conversation yeah there's
another one though why are so many bass players
have two first names that's a good question that
there's even kim gordon john paul jones brian
howard there's so many bass players that have
two first names and i don't understand this phenomenon
and i can't figure it out what's going on it's
It's a real thing, though. I'm convinced. Anyway,
so you are going out with them at times. You're
playing with a bunch of different people. At
what point do you, have you ever been a songwriter?
Is that something that you've ever been interested
in? I started a band called The Heap. Oh, yeah,
yeah. I would write songs for that, but we really
wrote those songs. together i might bring in
an idea but the horns would do their thing where
they would huddle and then come up with these
magical lines and stuff like that but yeah i
dabble no in in the studio or with with when
you're in a band you typically write a lot of
your own parts or does it just depends on who
you're working with or yeah yeah i'd say 90 95
of the time it's what i come up with generally
if i'm If somebody asks for me, it's because
they want. You're compositional. Yeah, the way
that I do things. Yeah, that's awesome. So at
what point were you able to start making a full
-time living doing music? Because I'm sure that
when you first moved here, you guys probably
had to get part -time jobs at least. Oh, yeah,
for sure. And even when I was out with Kevin,
I'm very. blessed to have a great partner. My
wife is fantastic. So she carried the burden
for a while. And then she was doing carpentry
and then the housing bubble burst. And she said
she wanted a job that was recession proof. So
she said she was going to go to nursing school.
So when she went to nursing school, then it was
time for me to get a full -time job. So I was
like, I've done all this stuff. It was cool.
I got farther than a lot of people do that try
this. So she's done this for me. It's only fair
that I hold up my end and take care of things
while she's in school. And she was still working,
contributing. Of course, yeah. It's America.
There's no single income households here. But
I would still do shows here in town. But there
wasn't a lot of touring or anything during that
point. And then when she graduated, shortly after
she graduated, I got a call. It had to have been.
So it was right around the time she graduated.
It was in July of 2012, July 2nd. I got an email
from Valina asking if I could fill in for Sal
for Cracker for some shows on the Bare Naked
Ladies last Summer on Earth tour. It was the
Bare Naked Ladies, Blues Traveler, Big Head Todd
and Monsters, and Cracker. And that was in, like,
2014? 2012. 2012, okay. Okay, so you started
filling in periodically before he left. I did
two weeks on that tour, but I was really still,
I was working at the software place. So I did
that, and then... Was your software job, was
it always a placeholder in your head, or was
it, okay, this is what I do now? No, it was what
I intended to do as a career. And then things
changed there radically. It was not the place
I wanted to be anymore. And by that time, I had
started doing more stuff with crackers. Yep.
I came in for those two weeks when Sal wasn't
able to be out for medical reasons. And then
I went back to the software gig. And then in
2014 was when I was asked if I would do the job
full time. yeah i was still working at the software
place when i for the first two or three years
i was in cracker i was was that a hard decision
was that something like to no it was great because
i was double dipping because i was working while
i'm on the road in the van no i just mean was
it was it a hard decision to to join a band full
because it's one thing to be like yeah i'll go
out on the road for two weeks Well, their touring
schedule wasn't anything like months at a time,
so it was something that was completely free.
It was manageable, and it was okay. But it was
still a bigger commitment than what you had previously.
Was that, there was no, you were just all in
immediately? Yeah, that's what I wanted to do.
The thing that's funny is when I got that initial
email from Valina, I started listening to the
tunes. I was like, oh yeah, I know that song.
I was like, yeah, I know that one too. Oh yeah,
I know that song and I actually really like it.
So I was like, yeah, why not? And bass is such
a prominent part on so many of those songs too.
It's the driving force of the melody. It's everything.
Sometimes you don't even care if there is guitar
on a cracker. There's some wild bass lines. Davey
Farragut, they've had fantastic bass players.
So it's big shoes to fill, in my opinion. But
yeah, so that was, in fact, I was just thinking
about it earlier. There was a time where we were
in London. You got to keep in mind, I'm still
working at the software place. And at this point,
I was digitizing aerial photos for people's maps.
It was a GIS thing. I worked with... Rural power
companies, rural co -ops. So I'm putting these
people's maps together backstage in London and
trying to do this install. I'm like, hey, you
all, I'm going to have to take a break for a
few hours. I got to go do a show, but then I'll
be back. And doing that and then coming back,
going to the hotel and getting back on. And the
time difference probably worked in your favor.
At times, yeah. But then once or twice I would
get a message from my immediate supervisor. And
I think really they were just... Why aren't you
at your desk? They were just checking to see
that I was actually at work. And so the fact
that I was allowed me to keep that until that
place took the turn and I needed to get out.
And then when I got out, I was able to do, you
know, not stress about it and still had the band.
And I'm just going to... take a guess that it's
like profits over people and that's usually the
the story with a lot of like at its core a handful
of folks were like that but they were the folks
that were making decisions right exactly and
that's yeah that's what i mean with the company
it started it was a fantastic company it was
a blessing when i started working honestly it
was a blessing that i left because that's when
I started the voiceover career. And how did you
start with that? It was something I'd always...
You definitely... And I've been told I have a
radio... Oh, no, it was Radio Face they told
me I had. I've heard that. I worked as a board
operator when we first moved to Georgia. That
was one of my other jobs, aside from delivering
steaks. Will you tell the kids what a board operator
was? So back in the day... We would get these
shows that would come in, we would get a feed,
and the board operator, my job was to take what
we called carts and play PSAs or commercials
at the proper time, pot down the feed from the
broadcast and bring up the local news and do
that. So I was just controlling the flow of the
show. Basically like live producing. In a way,
yeah. Yeah. A live engineering. So you've been
in that world already. You've probably been told
you have one of those rich voices that is soothing,
easy to listen to, that kind of thing. Initially,
I was told that, hey, we might get you your own
show or whatever. I knew I was losing that job
when they brought in the computer system. You
may want to pay attention to this. I was like,
oh, I know what that means. May does not mean
you need to pay attention to me. Yeah. See ya.
But it was fine. I wasn't a huge fan of radio.
I thought it would be more about music instead.
It was really more about sales. At least the
radio that I worked in. It's a business. But
it was something I always wanted to do. And shortly
before I left the software company, I reconnected
with an old friend from JMU, Shannon Torrance,
who was working as a voice actor. And I found
out about that. We had a talk and she's like,
I need you to do these things. You got to take
some kind of class, some kind of course, and
you have to have a demo made professionally.
Once you've done that, get back in touch with
me. And I did that. And the next day she sent
it out to some of her agents and I got an agent
the day after I got my demo. So it was very lucky.
And the classes I took, I'll never forget this.
I was about to ask. I still know the dates. I
took them at a place called Yoract, which seemed
sketchy. And now I know it was sketchy. There
were people in the class that really couldn't
read. And just, oh, you're wonderful. You're
great. Do this. I was like, eh. Like illiterate
couldn't read? Let's say not the most proficient.
OK. But. There were one or two people that were
actually really pretty good, but it was, it was
one of those things where they're like, Hey,
it's a three week course. And then there are
three levels of the course. And if you do all
three levels, then we put you in front of these
agents or whatever. Learn lately. I learned after
actually getting into voiceover, that's, that's
a big red flag because who knows that you're
going to be ready to do your demo after that.
But regardless. I was doing those shows. It was
April 7th, 14th, and 21st. And I know these dates
because I think it was either the 7th or the
4th was when Prince was going to do his one show
at the Fox. I was like, I'm driving down to this
voiceover class. I was like, I think I know enough
people. I could probably get into that show if
I wanted. I'm already down here. I was like,
nope, nope, not going to do it. I'm just going
to go and do this class. Like I said, it was
because he loves to tour. He loves playing. He'll
be back. And then the 21st, which was my last
class, was the day he died. And also my birthday
was the day he died. Worst birthday ever. It
was a drag because I was working at the software
company and I was doing an on -site install in...
somewhere in Wisconsin near Appleton, because
we flew from Appleton to Detroit at five in the
morning, Detroit to Atlanta. Then we drove from
Atlanta to Athens. Then I turned around and drove
back to Atlanta to do the voice acting class,
to drive back all on the day, like my musical
hero. That was a rough day. And it would strike,
yeah. It was a particularly rough day for you,
I think, but it was different for a lot of people,
too. I think America was heartbroken that day,
or at least the people that gave a shit about
interesting things. That was a tough one. Yeah,
man. What's striking to me is the parallel that
Prince had at the beginning of your, like, he's
your first show. and your inspiration to start
playing music. And then he's also weirdly part
of the beginning of your voice acting career,
too. There's this very impactful event, The Other
Direction, but involving Prince the day you finish
those classes. That's why I remember the dates.
But has that ever occurred? I had never thought
of it that way, but I can... That's all I heard.
Prince has always been this constant. But also
on important, momentous occasions in your life,
too. So where does it go from taking this class?
You get your agent. I don't want to just gloss
over Prince's death. It's all right. Yeah. We've
moved. America has just... I think people have
talked about it. You finish these classes, you
get an agent immediately. Was it... Did it just...
Did it continue to be that easy, or... Oh, no,
no. Because I don't get a ton of work through
the agents because I... You have to guarantee
that you're going to be in your studio at certain
dates if you get the job. And I don't want to
put myself in a position where... If I was actually
chosen that, oh, I'm actually on the road in
a hotel where it sounds completely different
than the audition I sent in. I see. I work with
a lot of, there are a few pay to play, what they
call them, sites. And from that, I was able to
cultivate a good number of clients that became
steady clients. What are some of the kinds of
work that you've done that you have? been consistent
been able to consistently do with voice acting
i do a lot of like internal explainer videos
i've done hundreds of videos for walmart explaining
everything from like how to set up the produce
ah yeah yeah how to deal with the wiring money
and stuff like that it's occurring to me that
i think i've seen videos with your voice like
corporate So you're talking like corporate training
videos a lot of the time, things like that. They
do stuff for the VA. Yeah. Helping train the
people that are going to be working with. Commercials
at all? I have a handful of commercials. I had
one national commercial in 2020 for the census.
Gotcha. So that one you may, you're likely to
have heard. Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I'm not.
I heart radio. It's more that I'm hearing your
voice now and thinking, wait a second. So that's
been a consistent line of work for you as well.
A hunting show. A hunting show. And I'm not a
big, I've never been hunting in my life. And
I was like, as long as they're not hunting big
game, I could do this. That was one where it
was like, yeah, we're going after a big white
tail named Old Red. Quick hunts. Nice. Quick
hunts was the name. You don't want to say that
too quickly. So, yeah. Don't say quick hunts
too quickly. Yeah. It's been a wide range of
stuff for the voiceover. And that's helped you
be able to stay doing these things that you're
passionate about instead of having to go. get
back into the grind and some of the jobs i do
i am able to set up my little pillow fort or
i've got a little mobile studio i take around
and record commercials what kind of equipment
do you need for for something like that i travel
with a sennheiser 416 microphone i've used a
few different interface i use a vault right now
currently because it's just easy and just running
that into i use reaper This is my DAW. I'm a
big fan of Reaper. Gotcha. And yeah, I can just
crank them out, send them out through weed transfer.
That's amazing. I mean, in some ways it reminds
me of this because a lot of the time I do these
in my home with a soundboard and everything,
you know, better mics and stuff, but I don't
travel with that, but I can do, I can set up
and do this anywhere. Did one in the foundry,
in the bar of the foundry the other week. So
there was a bit of background noise, but it worked
out. How much of that is just improvised over
the years that you've kind of like, I have a
problem, I've got to solve it. And then you can
now work in those conditions. It's a steady,
every, I feel like I learned something new about
traveling and touring and doing the voiceover
on the road each year. I learn more and more
about it. You've got to constantly keep learning.
Yeah. So, yeah, so I've been, things have improved.
A lot of it's like just little things, but it's,
yeah, refining. Yeah, for sure. What are some
of the ways, and I'm going to just back up and
shift a little bit here. What are some of the
ways that you've noticed that Athens has really
changed since you moved here 19 years ago or
29 years ago? Sorry, time is a bitch. Yeah, it's
just like anything. There are less mom and pop
shops downtown than there used to be. I think
the spirit is still pretty much the same. I think
that's true. But some of the geography and obviously
the people have changed, but Athens is still
a great place to be as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, I think it's been shielded from a lot of
the... You've seen, there's definitely been some
gentrification here and corporations moving in,
just like everywhere else. But I do think that
it has been somewhat shielded from a lot of the
shit that has really screwed up a lot of the
other cities in America. There's still a real,
I think, a true love. music and the arts here
in town. Yeah, it's a real priority in a way
that I don't see in other cities that they claim
they love the arts and do support the arts in
some ways, but it's not their passion. Padden
Oswalt has a famous bit about being in Athens
and the way things were. In the grand scheme,
a lot of it's true. I think that's pretty supportive.
So yeah, it's changed, but a lot of it's still
in a way. still the same. Yeah, I think that's...
As someone who's been visiting here for 20 years,
pretty consistently, but just getting these snapshots,
it's hard to see your kid grow when you're with
them every day. You know what I mean? But when
you leave and you come back and you see the differences,
I've seen the physical changes, but you're right.
The spirit of this place has maintained. I think
really consistently. And I can do everything
and get everything done I need to here. So I
don't need to be in New York or L .A., though
there might be more opportunities if I was in
one of those towns, but I'd still get plenty
of opportunity. I started doing a lot of remote
recording during the lockdown and COVID times.
How does recording for voice acting compare to
recording for music? What are some of the big
differences for you when you have to do those
remotely? Oh, those, it's really pretty similar.
It's just the same kind of things that you're
keeping in mind. I always get a kick out of the
scripts I get where I'm the husband. But I only
read my lines, and I have no idea how the other
actor is delivering theirs. You don't even hear.
So I love the idea of, well, what if they deliver
it this way? Then I have to do it like this.
So I usually do an ABC, three takes that give
them variety. But remote recording has worked
out very well for me. And musically, it's worked
out extremely well. I have a woman I like to
collaborate with in San Francisco. It's great
to be able to just send stuff back and forth
with ease. Yeah, that's, and I hear mixed feelings
about remote recording, right? Because some people
really lean into, especially when it breaks down
geographical barriers and things like that. But
have you ever run into the issue, a common issue
that I've heard that people have had with it
is when it's a more collaborative process. recording
one member might go too far down a rabbit hole
without feedback without and then it's whereas
in a studio you might get oh no that's not quite
what we're trying to do here and then some redirection
and and i'm thinking of some specific stories
that i've heard i'm not gonna call anybody out
but but i've just heard oh we were recording
this song and and i got this part and then i
recorded it and i did 10 takes and they ended
up all not being what they wanted and I didn't
get any feedback until I had already done all
10 of the takes or whatever and it's I can honestly
tell you I have never dealt with that that's
really cool I think I'm blessed to have a really
great network of musicians that I get to work
with that I'm lucky enough to work with and I
am able to communicate an idea to them enough
And also, if I'm calling on them, I want that
thing that they do. And sometimes I might say,
hey, at this park, can you do something a little
more blah, blah, blah? But in general, no, I've
never had anyone like way off the mark. You're
such a calm person, it seems. Is that true on
the inside? Are you pretty calm throughout, you
think? I try to be. I don't really see. And nothing
gets accomplished by freaking out generally.
Yeah. Because that's the heat of the moment.
Let's think about things. A lot of musicians,
artists of different kinds, it comes from a dark
place. Whether it's anxiety or a tough upbringing
or tumultuous relationships, whatever it might
be, do you think that that's true for you? Do
you think that it's rooted in? Conversely, I
spoke to Jim West from Weird Al's band the other
week, and he's like, no, not at all. It's just
love of music. I feel like a totally zen person,
and I don't struggle with any of those things.
I think it's probably more common for it to come
from a darker place, but what about for you?
I honestly have to say, I mean, it's... It hasn't
been that dark. At least I haven't perceived
it as being that dark. I think I have a wonderful
mother. She's amazing. She'll be 92 this year.
Wow. Honestly, just raised in a way that has
made me who I am. And she was never one to be
loud or freak out or anything like that. So I
think I get a lot of that. From her. And just
the way I was raised. My family is very into
education and things like that. Yeah, yeah. What
do you have going on? Do you have any goals?
I'm not somebody that operates with goals. I
just do what I have the tools to do in front
of me and hope it does something. A lot of people
do have goals. Where do you... land on that the
goal is to be able to continue doing these things
that i do and making a living doing them yeah
because that's i don't need i love my house i
don't need a big fancy mansion we would like
a pool one day but it's all just i don't know
i think i don't spend a lot of time thinking
about what i don't have yeah i really don't and
another this goes back to my mom i'm never bored
that's occurred to me recently i wasn't allowed
to use the word bored or boring growing up because
she would find something for me to do and it
would not be fun so i i i had a boss like that
do not i i don't and i'm never bored yeah and
life is good and has its times the vicissitudes
and it's not but it's I feel blessed. So I just
try to not take that for granted. Yeah. Yeah,
it's really easy to take some of that stuff for
granted, especially when so many negative things
are going on in the world. And that's all we
get to hear about. I think when you get to be
somebody that brings joy to people, whether it's
through music or whatever, you really see that
it's... things aren't as bad there's things that
are terrible don't get me wrong i'm not i'm not
trying to get like super political here but but
what i mean is that humanity humans people are
a lot better than than like the media makes like
we are not all against each other people are
out there that most people just want to live
their life and have a good time agree 100 and
that's what i don't care about when i'm traveling
and i don't I think that allows some perspective
that people that are stuck in one place and they
don't get to see the good, which is where I think
music is one of the things that brings. That's
what makes us human. That's one of the things
that defines us as human. I think I'm very lucky.
My job is to try to help people forget their
problems for 90 minutes at a time. And we were
playing in Orlando. And we walked out to get
food. And I'm walking back to the venue. And
I start seeing this line. And this line is long.
And I was like, oh, wait. Well, they're coming
to see us. And I think that's when it occurred
to me. This is legitimately some people's all
-time favorite band. And I can never phone in
a show because people work hard for their money.
And if they're going to lay down their money,
especially for something that they love so much,
I don't want to let them down. Yeah. What have
you got going on? I feel like this probably won't
come out until the beginning of next year at
this point. So what's 2026 looking like for you?
2026? Hopefully nice. Do you have any tours booked
or anything like that right now? No, I'm sure
I'll still be doing stuff with Cracker. Doing
some recording with Faye Webster. I don't know
when that will be released. I don't know if it'll
be out in 2026, but I'm sure there'll still be
some recording going on with her. Do you prefer
recording or playing live? I think both. Yeah.
Are they really different for you? Yeah. I'm
lucky. I have a little bedroom studio and a lot
of gear. So it's fun. I love recording. Absolutely.
Are you a tinkerer? Do you like to fiddle with
gear and tinker with gear? It depends on the
gear. I've gotten to the point where I like things
kind of stock now because if I need to replicate
something, I want to know what I'm going to get.
But, yeah, there's a lot of amplifiers, a lot
of amps, a lot of mics. I'm just a geek. That's
what it is. Somehow positioned myself that the
geekiness is what brings in the money. The doing
voices and recording music. It's crazy. So I
feel blessed and I don't take it for granted.
So that's the goal is to be able to maintain
and do that. I'm super lucky to sit here and
have this conversation with you. And I really
appreciate you being here, Brian. It's my pleasure.
Is there anything else that you feel like we
started to talk about? I'm giving you an opportunity
to tie up any loose ends if you think there are
any. There's so much. Now that I'm thinking about
it, I'm overwhelmed. I think we've touched on
enough for this. That's awesome. Maybe one day
there'll be a part two. Hell yeah. Thanks for
being here, man. Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for
having me. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
Brian J. Howard. He was a real gem. Really enjoyed
talking to him. I'm going to be doing all new
material tonight at BIRDS, so check that out.
And come on out tomorrow for science trivia at
Blue Tavern. That's going to be a fun time. We're
going to do a music round of songs about science,
so come check that out. Before we wrap up, I
just want to say, first of all, thank you all
for listening and sticking around. I do want
to say that Overeducated and Underemployed is
completely independently made by me from start
to finish. So if you enjoy these conversations
and want to help keep the show sustainable, I've
started a Patreon. There's some bonus content
there, but mostly it's just a way to directly
support the work. And you can find it linked
in the description. Thanks so much for listening.
Take us out of here, Sloan.