WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.620 I think that's when it occurred to me is this 00:00:01.620 --> 00:00:04.259 is legitimately some people's all time favorite 00:00:04.259 --> 00:00:08.619 band. And I can never phone in a show because 00:00:08.619 --> 00:00:12.939 people work hard for their money. And if they're 00:00:12.939 --> 00:00:15.220 going to lay down their money, especially for 00:00:15.220 --> 00:00:18.460 something that they love so much, I don't want 00:00:18.460 --> 00:00:46.850 to let them down. Welcome to Overeducated and 00:00:46.850 --> 00:00:49.270 Underemployed. Hope you dig the new theme song. 00:00:50.090 --> 00:00:52.969 Sloan Brothers knocked it out of the park. I 00:00:52.969 --> 00:00:56.070 love it. I hope y 'all do too. Make sure to check 00:00:56.070 --> 00:00:59.250 out Sloan Brothers' new record, Love and Other 00:00:59.250 --> 00:01:02.450 Diagnosis. It's available on streaming platforms, 00:01:02.670 --> 00:01:06.129 but also check out the band camp. Get the vinyl. 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:09.370 This week we got Brian Howard from Cracker. He's 00:01:09.370 --> 00:01:13.629 a voice actor. Does a bunch of amazing... Played 00:01:13.629 --> 00:01:15.969 in a bunch of amazing bands all over Athens, 00:01:16.109 --> 00:01:19.129 Georgia, and up in Alexandria, Virginia, where 00:01:19.129 --> 00:01:22.450 he grew up. But we had a great talk. I really 00:01:22.450 --> 00:01:26.209 enjoyed talking to him. I feel like most of the 00:01:26.209 --> 00:01:28.629 people I've had on here, there's going to be 00:01:28.629 --> 00:01:31.069 a follow -up one day. Whatever we didn't get 00:01:31.069 --> 00:01:34.010 to, we'll get to next time. To celebrate the 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:36.890 30th anniversary of their album, The Golden Age. 00:01:37.469 --> 00:01:39.590 Cracker's doing the camping in March, so check 00:01:39.590 --> 00:01:44.170 that out. Got links to Brian's website. and everything 00:01:44.170 --> 00:01:46.969 in the description. Thanks for tuning in. Hit 00:01:46.969 --> 00:01:50.049 that subscribe button. We're on Overeducated 00:01:50.049 --> 00:01:52.170 and Underemployed. I'm here with Brian Howard. 00:01:52.530 --> 00:01:56.810 He's a musician, a voice actor. You're the bass 00:01:56.810 --> 00:02:00.469 player for Cracker for over a decade now. And 00:02:00.469 --> 00:02:02.489 I want to learn way more, so that's why we're 00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:04.530 here. I'm going to ask you the same question 00:02:04.530 --> 00:02:07.090 I ask everybody to start with, and that's what's 00:02:07.090 --> 00:02:09.909 the first song that you remember loving as a 00:02:09.909 --> 00:02:13.439 kid? The first song I remember loving as a kid, 00:02:13.620 --> 00:02:16.400 it was probably something like, I was really 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:21.439 into, I loved the Coward of the County, I think 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:23.340 is probably the first one I really remember. 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.020 Because I think the first two records I bought 00:02:27.020 --> 00:02:30.719 were Urban Chipmunk and Kenny Rogers' Greatest 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:34.560 Hits. Gotcha. Yeah. And about how old were you, 00:02:34.620 --> 00:02:37.879 do you know? Oh, probably seven, eight, something 00:02:37.879 --> 00:02:41.680 like that. Okay. And were you really into music 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:47.180 in general already? I was a fan of music, but 00:02:47.180 --> 00:02:52.840 it wasn't what it has become. It wasn't my world 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:56.580 or anything. Were you banging on pots and pans 00:02:56.580 --> 00:02:59.659 or playing? Were you interested in playing it 00:02:59.659 --> 00:03:03.199 or were you just listening to it? Not at that 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.939 point, really. I guess I started playing when 00:03:06.939 --> 00:03:10.650 I was in... But fourth grade, I joined a Fife 00:03:10.650 --> 00:03:14.110 and Drum Corps. Oh, cool. Yeah, so. I'm a big 00:03:14.110 --> 00:03:17.370 Otha Turner fan, so. Like, I love that stuff, 00:03:17.509 --> 00:03:21.370 yeah. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, and then when my mom 00:03:21.370 --> 00:03:26.310 and my stepfather had reconnected, I remember 00:03:26.310 --> 00:03:29.349 watching them, and she was showing him how to 00:03:29.349 --> 00:03:32.490 play a scale on the piano. And then that, I started 00:03:32.490 --> 00:03:34.909 messing around with the piano after that, because 00:03:34.909 --> 00:03:38.139 it started to make sense. Gotcha. Gotcha. Were 00:03:38.139 --> 00:03:41.580 you interested in going to see live music as 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:46.979 a kid? Once Purple Rain came out. That was my 00:03:46.979 --> 00:03:50.539 first concert was Prince. Wow. The Purple Rain 00:03:50.539 --> 00:03:54.620 tour. That's wild. That was the turning point. 00:03:54.659 --> 00:03:59.699 That was the thing that did it. Yeah. Dude came 00:03:59.699 --> 00:04:02.300 up from an elevator from under the stage and 00:04:02.300 --> 00:04:06.060 had thousands of people in the palm of his hand. 00:04:08.299 --> 00:04:13.159 He died on my birthday. Worst birthday ever. 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:16.839 And I hate the fact that some of the stuff has 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:18.879 come out because clearly he didn't want it out. 00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:21.360 But I also love the fact that some of the stuff 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:25.420 has come out. I think the concert, I think it 00:04:25.420 --> 00:04:28.980 was like a night of maybe three or four shows. 00:04:29.660 --> 00:04:33.100 So one of the shows is actually on YouTube now. 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:35.800 I saw it at the Capitol Center. Wow. You ever 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:38.740 seen Heavy Metal Parking Lot? Yes. Yeah. That 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:41.899 was where I saw my first concert. I actually 00:04:41.899 --> 00:04:43.420 think some of those people went to school with 00:04:43.420 --> 00:04:47.339 me. That's incredible. How did you even, how 00:04:47.339 --> 00:04:51.319 were you there? Like, what got you there? Did 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:54.399 your parents take you? I went with my brother 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:58.939 and his girlfriend at the time. She's the one 00:04:58.939 --> 00:05:03.180 that stayed in line for hours and hours. and 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:06.620 got the tickets for us. And yeah, that was my 00:05:06.620 --> 00:05:13.040 very first concert in March of 84, I think. So 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.500 how have you ever been satisfied ever since? 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:18.240 I feel like it's all downhill from there. I mean, 00:05:18.259 --> 00:05:21.720 it was a great place to start, but that was what 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:25.819 really started the whole thing. And what was 00:05:25.819 --> 00:05:28.500 the first instrument that you wanted? Was it 00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:32.180 guitar? Because he's such an amazing guitar player. 00:05:32.939 --> 00:05:36.079 The first thing I took lessons on was saxophone. 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:40.879 Okay. Yeah. In school. So I played saxophone 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.839 for several years. And then I started messing 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.600 around with guitar. Were you playing sax, like, 00:05:47.660 --> 00:05:51.060 in rock music? No. Okay. School stuff, very beginner. 00:05:51.220 --> 00:05:53.480 Yeah, yeah. Symphonic band stuff like that. Yeah. 00:05:53.620 --> 00:05:57.779 And I assumed that. Cuba, I think, my senior 00:05:57.779 --> 00:06:01.439 year of high school. Oh, cool. Cool. In fact, 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:03.939 funny thing. You're a big guy, so they probably 00:06:03.939 --> 00:06:06.980 just stuck. I don't think my mom liked that. 00:06:07.139 --> 00:06:09.579 I feel like if I had been in band, they would 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:12.339 have put me in a tuba immediately. What's wild 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:16.160 was I was second or third chair. And first chair 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:19.220 was this guy, Michael Nickens, who's known as 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:22.699 Doc Nix. And he has a video that you've probably 00:06:22.699 --> 00:06:25.620 seen his pep band playing Rage Against the Machine. 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:29.560 It's pretty old at this point. We were on the 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:35.779 same high school band. Nice, nice. So you went 00:06:35.779 --> 00:06:39.519 and saw Prince. You started playing saxophone. 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.459 But then you got into guitar. What was the kind 00:06:43.459 --> 00:06:47.100 of turning point from saxophone into wanting 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:49.300 to play rock and roll music? When I was in Fife 00:06:49.300 --> 00:06:52.399 and Drum Corps, that's when I started. I got 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:56.379 my first band. So Andrew McCain, who's one of 00:06:56.379 --> 00:06:59.759 the guys who moved to Georgia with me, we would 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:02.699 have band practices over at his house after. 00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:05.519 You'll hear me say the guard because that's what 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:07.339 the Fife and Drum Corps was called, the Mount 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:10.279 Vernon Guard. So we would have rehearsals over 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:14.500 at his place after guard performances. And on 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:16.860 the weekends, we actually practiced a good bit. 00:07:17.300 --> 00:07:23.079 And it was that was when. I started messing around 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.259 with guitar. At the time, in that band, I started 00:07:26.259 --> 00:07:30.259 off as the drummer. Okay. And my friend Chris 00:07:30.259 --> 00:07:32.480 Anderson, who was the bass player at the time, 00:07:32.579 --> 00:07:37.160 decided he wanted to play drums. And I was trying 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:40.680 to give him all these great arguments and reasons 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:44.959 why he should stick with bass. And he essentially 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:47.160 said, if it's so great, why don't you do it? 00:07:47.660 --> 00:07:51.610 Got a point. as well so that's how that started 00:07:51.610 --> 00:07:55.069 but my brother -in -law is a fantastic bass player 00:07:55.069 --> 00:07:59.790 and you grew up in alexandria correct okay just 00:07:59.790 --> 00:08:05.170 outside of dc you're you're going to were you 00:08:05.170 --> 00:08:07.389 going to other shows or was that that just kind 00:08:07.389 --> 00:08:10.750 of like a once in a while thing we started playing 00:08:10.750 --> 00:08:15.149 shows at a unitarian church they had the their 00:08:15.149 --> 00:08:17.759 coffee house i think i was like like one Friday 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:21.060 out of the month. So that was how we really started 00:08:21.060 --> 00:08:24.300 playing out. And then we started getting a little 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:29.160 more serious about it, and we booked a show at 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.919 this Mexican restaurant. I think it was called 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:37.519 Tio Pedro. And they booked us, and our crowd 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:40.620 was underage, and there was a good bit of drinking, 00:08:40.620 --> 00:08:44.820 so it was an issue. So it happened once. We were 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:46.740 supposed to be almost like a residency kind of 00:08:46.740 --> 00:08:50.720 thing. And being in the D .C. area, we looked. 00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:53.620 A few weeks later, there was a band playing there 00:08:53.620 --> 00:08:56.600 called Fugazi, which apparently was a mariachi 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:00.279 band. But you can imagine being in the D .C. 00:09:00.299 --> 00:09:05.159 area, lying around the block. And then after 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:08.580 doors, people freaking out and getting pretty 00:09:08.580 --> 00:09:12.480 upset that it wasn't Fugazi. Yeah. Yeah. So we 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:15.840 had the one night at Tio Pedro's. Remind me the 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:18.919 name of the, so you started a band with a few 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:21.299 of your friends and y 'all moved here. The band 00:09:21.299 --> 00:09:24.940 I moved to Georgia with is called Slack Daddy. 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.379 Slack Daddy, that's right. I knew it was, I couldn't, 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:29.720 it was just on the tip of my tongue, sorry. And 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:34.519 that was in? 1996. 96, okay. So we've, I don't 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:36.580 want to skip too much here. Is there, like what, 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:42.200 what's going on between this? Mexican restaurant 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:46.059 gig and and stuff the beginning and moving to 00:09:46.059 --> 00:09:50.059 Athens what was the what tell me that story we 00:09:50.059 --> 00:09:54.460 all everyone in the band after high school we 00:09:54.460 --> 00:09:57.259 went our separate ways but we would still get 00:09:57.259 --> 00:10:02.159 together over the summers and I went to school 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:06.230 with a guy named Cecil Conley James Madison University. 00:10:06.309 --> 00:10:10.110 And he put on a festival called Cecil Fest to 00:10:10.110 --> 00:10:15.750 celebrate his birthday. And he booked us. So 00:10:15.750 --> 00:10:20.529 we went and a friend of ours, Caroline Pru, came 00:10:20.529 --> 00:10:27.429 and she filmed it. And we watched it and it was 00:10:27.429 --> 00:10:30.690 a pretty good performance. And that's what encouraged 00:10:30.690 --> 00:10:35.399 us to... Maybe we should try this for real. So 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:40.500 we decided that it was after Andrew graduated, 00:10:40.779 --> 00:10:44.120 we were going to move to Georgia. And that's 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:45.899 what we did. We were all in different places 00:10:45.899 --> 00:10:49.679 when we signed the lease. With facts. Because 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:53.860 he was in, he went to Amherst, so he was in Massachusetts. 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:59.019 The drummer, Ian Worden, he was in Guam. And 00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:02.919 I was in Harrisonburg, Virginia. And then we 00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:06.259 made this decision based on the love of music 00:11:06.259 --> 00:11:09.779 and basically that Cecil Fest performance. And 00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:12.639 that was basically like a one -off reuniting 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.019 kind of thing that your friend got you to do. 00:11:15.460 --> 00:11:19.679 We played. You still played together some after 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:24.080 high school? Okay. But it was fun. We played 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:25.759 as much as we could, but we didn't really... 00:11:26.539 --> 00:11:29.259 It sounds like that was geographically challenging, 00:11:29.460 --> 00:11:34.139 to say the least. We would play at Harrisonburg 00:11:34.139 --> 00:11:37.059 and other places during the summer. But we didn't 00:11:37.059 --> 00:11:40.639 do a whole lot of real traveling until we moved 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:45.080 to Georgia. Gotcha. Gotcha. What was it about 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:48.419 Georgia that... Kevin Kinney. That was what it 00:11:48.419 --> 00:11:52.740 was for me. When I went to JMU, one of my best 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:57.879 friends, Andrew Stitt, was my... roommate and 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:03.019 another musician amy dominguez who's still active 00:12:03.019 --> 00:12:07.179 yeah in the dc area she played with i i randomly 00:12:07.179 --> 00:12:09.820 saw her in athens one day she was playing cello 00:12:09.820 --> 00:12:14.100 with mary timoney but i'm not sure what i know 00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:16.059 she she still plays i think she's very involved 00:12:16.059 --> 00:12:19.580 in classical music and play the cello de gambo 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.659 She does neat stuff, from what I see. Yeah, it 00:12:24.659 --> 00:12:27.500 sounds like it. She brought over a copy of McDougal 00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:31.159 Blues. And my roommate and I listened to it. 00:12:31.179 --> 00:12:33.919 It was probably about three times in a row. Just 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:38.659 absolutely loved this record. And after the whole 00:12:38.659 --> 00:12:40.639 Cecil Fest thing, and we were trying to decide 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:45.039 where to go, he kept saying, Andy Stitt, that 00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:46.740 is, was like, you should go to Athens, Georgia. 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:51.059 He would play the Athens, Georgia Inside Out 00:12:51.059 --> 00:12:54.019 soundtrack all the time to kind of encourage 00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:55.940 it. And then when I found out that Kevin Kinney 00:12:55.940 --> 00:12:57.700 lived in Athens, I was like, oh, let's go check 00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:02.620 it out. So did you visit first? Repeatedly? No, 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:05.039 we came down once. You came down once. Came down 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:08.399 once, and we went to see it. We saw Harvey Milk 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:12.659 at the Atomic. And we saw a band called Funkomatic 00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:16.279 at the 40 Watt Club. And I think we had lunch. 00:13:16.419 --> 00:13:20.350 It was like 5. box going in there on the beer 00:13:20.350 --> 00:13:23.210 so we're like yeah this this will work yeah we 00:13:23.210 --> 00:13:25.750 actually didn't move into Athens proper we lived 00:13:25.750 --> 00:13:29.230 in Comer okay okay for a year year and a half 00:13:29.230 --> 00:13:32.009 something like that but but you found it affordable 00:13:32.009 --> 00:13:35.210 you found it to have the the scene that you were 00:13:35.210 --> 00:13:37.830 looking for and and people that you admired and 00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:41.120 respected oh yeah Was there any other, was anybody 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:43.620 arguing for any other city? Was there any other, 00:13:43.659 --> 00:13:46.899 was there debate about it? Not really. I think 00:13:46.899 --> 00:13:50.659 we had talked about maybe two or three cities. 00:13:51.100 --> 00:13:53.139 Asheville, I think, was something that was considered. 00:13:53.220 --> 00:13:55.320 But I think Athens was like, let's go and check 00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:58.860 it out and see what that's. What was it like? 00:13:59.059 --> 00:14:01.539 What was this entering a scene like that that's 00:14:01.539 --> 00:14:04.220 pretty well established already? You know what? 00:14:04.659 --> 00:14:06.500 One of the reasons we chose Athens was because 00:14:06.500 --> 00:14:10.100 it was 1996. The Olympics were going on. So we 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:12.960 figured all the clubs would be packed. Instant 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.139 fame, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.899 International audience coming to you. Yeah, exactly. 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:23.639 So that was another big reason why it was Athens. 00:14:24.460 --> 00:14:26.700 We didn't take into account how difficult it 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:30.320 was going to be to rent places then. That's why 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.899 we wound up in Comer. Interesting. Because they 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:38.019 had a lot of the events. here in in they i think 00:14:38.019 --> 00:14:41.179 they had like rhythmic gymnastics they had i 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:44.639 think soccer okay or at least women's soccer 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.580 because we were playing at a place called wishbones 00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:51.240 when was it the women's team won it was a brandy 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:55.399 chastain whipped off the top a huge roar and 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:57.740 it was right as we finished the song we're all 00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:00.460 like there's no way people here to make that 00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:04.379 kind of sound for us but yeah so i bet it felt 00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:08.259 good for a minute But it was rhythmic gymnastics. 00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:10.879 I think maybe like kayaking or something. There 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.559 were a few events here in town. Yeah, yeah. So 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:19.899 after the kind of the Olympics blows over, you're 00:15:19.899 --> 00:15:23.539 able to move into Athens proper. But you were 00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:25.799 having the realization of the Olympics when I 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.460 asked you this the first time. But what was it 00:15:28.460 --> 00:15:33.100 like to move to a city as a band that already 00:15:33.100 --> 00:15:36.710 had such an established scene, I mean, everybody 00:15:36.710 --> 00:15:39.330 had these. Was it welcoming? Did you find it 00:15:39.330 --> 00:15:43.129 hard to break in? No. Weird story how we got 00:15:43.129 --> 00:15:46.190 our very first show. Again, I was in the Fife 00:15:46.190 --> 00:15:50.789 and Drum Corps with Andrew. And we went to Ireland 00:15:50.789 --> 00:15:55.029 four times to perform the St. Patrick's Day Parade. 00:15:55.029 --> 00:16:00.730 But we travel around. We both worked at a steak 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.330 delivery place called Steak Out. This is weird. 00:16:05.169 --> 00:16:08.470 Our manager was a guy we called Irish Dave because 00:16:08.470 --> 00:16:11.830 he was from Ireland. And we were talking about 00:16:11.830 --> 00:16:14.730 it. And we're like, so where in Ireland are you 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:16.789 from? He's like, oh, Galway. I said, oh, yeah, 00:16:16.830 --> 00:16:19.509 I've been to Galway. He's like, oh, really? I 00:16:19.509 --> 00:16:23.149 said, yeah. Remember the statue of the Galway 00:16:23.149 --> 00:16:25.110 hooker? I was like, and we stayed at a hotel 00:16:25.110 --> 00:16:27.509 called Flannery's. And he's like, oh, I know 00:16:27.509 --> 00:16:30.009 Flannery's. I was like, you don't know Frankie 00:16:30.009 --> 00:16:33.269 Flannery, do you? And he's like, holy crap, Frankie 00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:36.220 Flannery. He's like, if you're Frankie Flannery, 00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:38.720 then I have to help you get a gig. And he got 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.700 us a gig at Flanagan's. And that was our very 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:44.500 first show. And it was a weird coincidence that, 00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:47.840 like, the one guy in Ireland I happen to know 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:52.200 by name was also known by this dude. That stuff 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:56.960 just happens, man. The world is a weird place. 00:16:57.259 --> 00:17:00.100 And it's, I don't know, telling this stuff is 00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:06.119 making me real. Yeah, that's pretty serendipitous. 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.500 Yeah. So your first gig's at Flanagan's. Flanagan's. 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.660 And is this during the Olympics still? I think 00:17:14.660 --> 00:17:19.240 that, no. Okay. What other bands were you playing 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.579 with at the time? What was the scene like? When 00:17:22.579 --> 00:17:26.420 we moved to town, we pretty much only played 00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:29.920 with Slack Daddy. Okay. I didn't start playing 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:33.480 out. Really with other bands until it was apparent 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.700 that Slack Daddy was going different ways and 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:42.200 different directions. What other bands was Slack 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:45.799 Daddy playing with, though? On the bills and 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.900 stuff like that. Who was in the scene at the 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:52.099 time? There was a band called Space Voyage of 00:17:52.099 --> 00:17:55.839 Him that we played with. Nice. Oh, I mean, there 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:58.180 were just so many. I'm trying to think of somebody 00:17:58.180 --> 00:18:02.660 we played with a lot. It was, well, it's going 00:18:02.660 --> 00:18:06.480 to, we got around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.779 just curious. Carl Lindbergh used to put on a 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:12.140 festival called the Shanti Festival. I don't 00:18:12.140 --> 00:18:13.519 know if you're familiar with it. I've heard of 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.900 it, yeah. So one year, when we moved, when we 00:18:17.900 --> 00:18:20.079 were living out in the country in Comer, we're 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:21.799 like, hey, you can do the festival out here. 00:18:22.539 --> 00:18:24.240 And he came out to check it out. He's like, oh, 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:25.920 you know, it's cool and all, but I think it's 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:28.019 just a little too far out of town, so we're probably 00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:31.569 going to pass. And I think two weeks, a week 00:18:31.569 --> 00:18:33.930 or so before the show, we saw flyers for it, 00:18:33.950 --> 00:18:37.150 and they were directions to our place. Wow. So 00:18:37.150 --> 00:18:40.309 I guess they changed their mind. So a lot of 00:18:40.309 --> 00:18:47.369 folks that played in that scene, we didn't limit 00:18:47.369 --> 00:18:49.529 it to anyone. Anyone that was willing to play 00:18:49.529 --> 00:18:52.809 with us, we would. Southern Bitch, there's just 00:18:52.809 --> 00:18:56.049 a lot of bands. Yeah, there's probably hundreds. 00:18:56.190 --> 00:18:59.390 Oh, yeah. Just trying to recall the names is 00:18:59.390 --> 00:19:01.650 the thing that's throwing me. Yeah, no, and that's 00:19:01.650 --> 00:19:04.509 fine. We don't have to dwell on that. They can 00:19:04.509 --> 00:19:09.329 go watch documentaries and stuff. I guess I was 00:19:09.329 --> 00:19:12.089 getting more curious if there was anybody of 00:19:12.089 --> 00:19:15.329 note that you remembered more, not just... But 00:19:15.329 --> 00:19:20.490 yeah, it sounds like the scene was super welcoming 00:19:20.490 --> 00:19:22.970 to y 'all when you got here. It wasn't like they 00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:27.180 were gatekeeping or to outside. outsiders or 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:28.940 anything like that and i've never experienced 00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:31.619 anything like that here either i i i'm just curious 00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:35.299 i feel like that's a dynamic that there's individual 00:19:35.299 --> 00:19:38.960 musicians that move here a lot i don't hear about 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.500 a whole band moving here very often yeah it was 00:19:42.500 --> 00:19:46.799 for the most part it was very welcoming and it 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:51.759 just once we started getting into the scene and 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:54.039 attending more shows and it became easier to 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:59.990 book yeah yeah What were some of the venues that 00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:02.269 you remember that maybe aren't around anymore 00:20:02.269 --> 00:20:04.470 that you thought were really important to the 00:20:04.470 --> 00:20:06.950 scene back then? When I went, definitely the 00:20:06.950 --> 00:20:11.109 Atomic. Then Tasty World came around not too 00:20:11.109 --> 00:20:14.670 long after we moved to town. That's gone. It's 00:20:14.670 --> 00:20:16.710 not that they had a ton of shows at the Engine 00:20:16.710 --> 00:20:19.069 Room, but I remember the Engine Room being really 00:20:19.069 --> 00:20:22.849 important to the Athens music scene. I'm trying 00:20:22.849 --> 00:20:26.059 to think of where else. We started doing an open 00:20:26.059 --> 00:20:28.559 mic night when there was the Athens Brewing Company. 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.740 I was surprised there wasn't an open mic night 00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:35.240 when we came here. Oh, interesting. But that 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.759 place was crazy because they let us run it, so 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.180 here we are in this brewery. There was no one 00:20:41.180 --> 00:20:44.440 really taking money down there, and we had access 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:49.720 to all the home brews. It could get pretty rowdy 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:54.160 at times. Yeah, yeah. At what point did you start 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.539 playing with other bands? Or I guess, what happened 00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:00.960 to Slack Daddy? What's the story there? It's 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:05.500 just one of those things, just time. Andrew got 00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:09.200 married and he moved. It was a little, he didn't 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.660 move far from town. He just moved to, what was 00:21:11.660 --> 00:21:16.460 it, Jefferson? But it was far enough that it 00:21:16.460 --> 00:21:19.660 made it a little difficult to get together regularly. 00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:25.500 just life it wasn't there was no animosity or 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:28.539 anything like that and i had already started 00:21:28.539 --> 00:21:32.920 doing some stuff with kevin kenney gotcha and 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.200 and how did you meet kevin because it sounds 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:37.339 like that was like a goal of yours when you moved 00:21:37.339 --> 00:21:40.420 here it took two years to actually see him play 00:21:40.420 --> 00:21:43.599 after moving here but i was working at the 40 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:47.920 watt and cheap trick was playing and i was 41 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:52.460 yeah And I was working at the back door, and 00:21:52.460 --> 00:21:55.440 people were like, oh, that's Robin Zander. Oh, 00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:58.160 Bunny Carlos. I was like, is that Kevin Kinney? 00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.880 They're like, oh, yeah, I see him all the time. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.079 So they used to tell us back then, always carry 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:05.880 a cassette of your stuff because you never know 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.920 who you're going to run into. And that's what 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:12.759 I did. So I gave Kevin a cassette of Slack Daddy's 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.839 stuff. I was like, if you ever need a bass player, 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:20.329 let me know. And then I think a year later, his 00:22:20.329 --> 00:22:23.190 manager, Scott Munn, came and found me at the 00:22:23.190 --> 00:22:27.210 Forty Wattens. Kevin wants you to play on Peacemaker. 00:22:27.890 --> 00:22:30.670 I think maybe it was just Peacemaker at this 00:22:30.670 --> 00:22:34.990 show. So I learned it and showed up. And then 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:38.910 I think it was like Greg Hester and someone else. 00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:41.630 And we're hanging out backstage and Kevin's like, 00:22:41.650 --> 00:22:45.930 oh, let's just all go out together. Kevin's the 00:22:45.930 --> 00:22:49.809 master. Fake it till you make it. So we never 00:22:49.809 --> 00:22:52.869 played Peacemaker. I made it through that show, 00:22:53.009 --> 00:22:56.609 and I remember thinking, I guess I whiffed that 00:22:56.609 --> 00:23:00.029 one. I'll never hear from him again. And then 00:23:00.029 --> 00:23:04.029 maybe a few months after that, Scott came back 00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:05.430 down and was like, Kevin wants to know if you 00:23:05.430 --> 00:23:08.450 can go out and do a few shows. Tim's not able 00:23:08.450 --> 00:23:10.490 to do it. It was for the Broken Hearts and Auto 00:23:10.490 --> 00:23:13.130 Parts tour. Okay. And then I went out and did 00:23:13.130 --> 00:23:17.460 that. So when... Your other band breaks up, you're 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:21.819 just ready to go do whatever with whoever at 00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:26.039 that point. And at that point, did that become 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.660 a more regular thing with Kevin? Yeah. You started 00:23:28.660 --> 00:23:32.339 touring with them for how many years? Eight, 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:37.119 about eight years. Yeah, okay. And I'm sure that 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:40.619 there wasn't a lot of room for other bands in 00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:44.349 that time? No, it was... I played with some other 00:23:44.349 --> 00:23:48.869 folks in town. Craig Liskey. Any project he would 00:23:48.869 --> 00:23:52.490 ask me to do, he was the guy. Craig was, man, 00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:55.690 Craig was like a really good friend of mine. 00:23:55.809 --> 00:23:58.490 I fucking loved that guy. One of my favorites. 00:23:58.549 --> 00:24:01.609 And he was the one that kind of impressed upon 00:24:01.609 --> 00:24:04.769 me that it's just music. No one's going to die 00:24:04.769 --> 00:24:08.849 from bad notes. And that kind of, when you start 00:24:08.849 --> 00:24:11.730 thinking about it, that way you'd be less. fearful 00:24:11.730 --> 00:24:15.369 of wanting everything to be perfect and people 00:24:15.369 --> 00:24:18.190 just want it to be good i think i don't think 00:24:18.190 --> 00:24:21.130 anyone's necessarily worried about perfection 00:24:21.130 --> 00:24:25.529 they just want a good show he he also just had 00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:29.170 this this energy about him that i feel like really 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:32.450 helped people feel like they could do anything 00:24:32.450 --> 00:24:35.190 and he was great at putting people together oh 00:24:35.190 --> 00:24:38.490 you should meet so -and -so for sure for sure 00:24:38.809 --> 00:24:40.569 So yeah, there were a lot of play with other 00:24:40.569 --> 00:24:43.549 bands. There's a band called Jackpot City that 00:24:43.549 --> 00:24:45.990 I wound up playing a good number of shows with. 00:24:46.690 --> 00:24:49.750 Did you play with Thundercrack? I did not. Okay, 00:24:49.869 --> 00:24:54.910 I'm just curious. I did a few shows with Mother 00:24:54.910 --> 00:24:59.049 Jackson. Okay, yeah, yeah. Whoever was asking, 00:24:59.150 --> 00:25:03.630 I was willing to give it a shot. And then I did... 00:25:03.630 --> 00:25:07.380 So, very first show I go out on with Kevin. When 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.480 we went out on that run, he was asking me who 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:13.119 some of my favorite bass players were. I was 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:18.140 like, oh, James Jamerson, Carol Kay, Brian Ritchie. 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:19.259 And he's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 00:25:19.900 --> 00:25:22.059 You mean Brian Ritchie from the Violent Femmes? 00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:24.720 I was like, yeah, I just love what he does. He's 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.619 one of my best friends from high school. I was 00:25:27.619 --> 00:25:32.480 like, no way. So eventually, Kevin put me in 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:35.089 touch with Brian. And I was like, you should 00:25:35.089 --> 00:25:38.390 really invite him out to a show. I did. So I 00:25:38.390 --> 00:25:40.549 was playing with Sarah Lee Guthrie and her husband, 00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:43.529 Johnny Iron at the time. And he came and he showed 00:25:43.529 --> 00:25:46.190 up and he stood at the side of the stage the 00:25:46.190 --> 00:25:51.369 whole time. And afterwards he said, yeah, I could 00:25:51.369 --> 00:25:54.930 hear my influence. So he's been a good friend. 00:25:55.630 --> 00:25:58.930 That's hilarious. After that show, we talked 00:25:58.930 --> 00:26:04.089 for a while. We're playing in Charlotte on. October 00:26:04.089 --> 00:26:07.690 29th oh you want to come out and play bass on 00:26:07.690 --> 00:26:11.130 Gone Daddy Gone so I can do the xylophone stuff 00:26:11.130 --> 00:26:14.430 yeah absolutely and then I kept getting emails 00:26:14.430 --> 00:26:16.630 I want you to play on this tune as well and on 00:26:16.630 --> 00:26:18.670 this tune so I was wound up doing almost like 00:26:18.670 --> 00:26:21.589 half the show with them then I show up at sound 00:26:21.589 --> 00:26:23.650 check and he's like okay we're gonna do a Coltrane 00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:28.339 tune i got myself into plus it's a halloween 00:26:28.339 --> 00:26:30.779 show so the violent films are one of my favorite 00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:32.940 bands but the first time i'm on stage everyone 00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:35.420 in the audience is dressed like demons and ghouls 00:26:35.420 --> 00:26:38.619 and stuff so it was it was quite an experience 00:26:38.619 --> 00:26:41.000 but they played with our orchestra a couple years 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.500 ago it was fantastic we just went to see them 00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:46.599 in atlanta a few months ago oh nice so orchestra 00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:52.130 show i you your list of favorite bass players 00:26:52.130 --> 00:26:54.609 is just reconfirming this theory that i've gotten 00:26:54.609 --> 00:26:57.490 i'm going to derail the conversation yeah there's 00:26:57.490 --> 00:27:00.309 another one though why are so many bass players 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:04.569 have two first names that's a good question that 00:27:04.569 --> 00:27:08.710 there's even kim gordon john paul jones brian 00:27:08.710 --> 00:27:11.289 howard there's so many bass players that have 00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:14.230 two first names and i don't understand this phenomenon 00:27:14.230 --> 00:27:16.829 and i can't figure it out what's going on it's 00:27:17.150 --> 00:27:21.190 It's a real thing, though. I'm convinced. Anyway, 00:27:21.789 --> 00:27:28.529 so you are going out with them at times. You're 00:27:28.529 --> 00:27:30.930 playing with a bunch of different people. At 00:27:30.930 --> 00:27:35.170 what point do you, have you ever been a songwriter? 00:27:35.329 --> 00:27:38.309 Is that something that you've ever been interested 00:27:38.309 --> 00:27:42.130 in? I started a band called The Heap. Oh, yeah, 00:27:42.130 --> 00:27:44.849 yeah. I would write songs for that, but we really 00:27:44.849 --> 00:27:47.599 wrote those songs. together i might bring in 00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:51.359 an idea but the horns would do their thing where 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.799 they would huddle and then come up with these 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:55.839 magical lines and stuff like that but yeah i 00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:00.720 dabble no in in the studio or with with when 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.700 you're in a band you typically write a lot of 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:04.640 your own parts or does it just depends on who 00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:09.079 you're working with or yeah yeah i'd say 90 95 00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:13.299 of the time it's what i come up with generally 00:28:13.299 --> 00:28:16.380 if i'm If somebody asks for me, it's because 00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:19.160 they want. You're compositional. Yeah, the way 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:24.480 that I do things. Yeah, that's awesome. So at 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:29.759 what point were you able to start making a full 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.259 -time living doing music? Because I'm sure that 00:28:32.259 --> 00:28:34.500 when you first moved here, you guys probably 00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:36.940 had to get part -time jobs at least. Oh, yeah, 00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:40.079 for sure. And even when I was out with Kevin, 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:45.059 I'm very. blessed to have a great partner. My 00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:48.980 wife is fantastic. So she carried the burden 00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:52.279 for a while. And then she was doing carpentry 00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:55.680 and then the housing bubble burst. And she said 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:58.519 she wanted a job that was recession proof. So 00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:00.599 she said she was going to go to nursing school. 00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:03.220 So when she went to nursing school, then it was 00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:05.220 time for me to get a full -time job. So I was 00:29:05.220 --> 00:29:08.400 like, I've done all this stuff. It was cool. 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:11.579 I got farther than a lot of people do that try 00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:14.880 this. So she's done this for me. It's only fair 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.420 that I hold up my end and take care of things 00:29:18.420 --> 00:29:20.880 while she's in school. And she was still working, 00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:24.660 contributing. Of course, yeah. It's America. 00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:28.700 There's no single income households here. But 00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:31.660 I would still do shows here in town. But there 00:29:31.660 --> 00:29:34.400 wasn't a lot of touring or anything during that 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.839 point. And then when she graduated, shortly after 00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:43.099 she graduated, I got a call. It had to have been. 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:45.819 So it was right around the time she graduated. 00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:52.900 It was in July of 2012, July 2nd. I got an email 00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:57.079 from Valina asking if I could fill in for Sal 00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.539 for Cracker for some shows on the Bare Naked 00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:03.940 Ladies last Summer on Earth tour. It was the 00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:08.480 Bare Naked Ladies, Blues Traveler, Big Head Todd 00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:10.859 and Monsters, and Cracker. And that was in, like, 00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:14.619 2014? 2012. 2012, okay. Okay, so you started 00:30:14.619 --> 00:30:17.059 filling in periodically before he left. I did 00:30:17.059 --> 00:30:18.460 two weeks on that tour, but I was really still, 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:21.539 I was working at the software place. So I did 00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:24.920 that, and then... Was your software job, was 00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:28.019 it always a placeholder in your head, or was 00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:30.900 it, okay, this is what I do now? No, it was what 00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:34.240 I intended to do as a career. And then things 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:38.960 changed there radically. It was not the place 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:44.119 I wanted to be anymore. And by that time, I had 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:46.259 started doing more stuff with crackers. Yep. 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.220 I came in for those two weeks when Sal wasn't 00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:53.980 able to be out for medical reasons. And then 00:30:53.980 --> 00:30:58.319 I went back to the software gig. And then in 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:04.839 2014 was when I was asked if I would do the job 00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:09.390 full time. yeah i was still working at the software 00:31:09.390 --> 00:31:11.950 place when i for the first two or three years 00:31:11.950 --> 00:31:15.009 i was in cracker i was was that a hard decision 00:31:15.009 --> 00:31:18.230 was that something like to no it was great because 00:31:18.230 --> 00:31:20.829 i was double dipping because i was working while 00:31:20.829 --> 00:31:23.869 i'm on the road in the van no i just mean was 00:31:23.869 --> 00:31:27.710 it was it a hard decision to to join a band full 00:31:27.710 --> 00:31:29.410 because it's one thing to be like yeah i'll go 00:31:29.410 --> 00:31:32.700 out on the road for two weeks Well, their touring 00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:34.740 schedule wasn't anything like months at a time, 00:31:34.819 --> 00:31:36.279 so it was something that was completely free. 00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:39.900 It was manageable, and it was okay. But it was 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:44.880 still a bigger commitment than what you had previously. 00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:49.799 Was that, there was no, you were just all in 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.539 immediately? Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:57.440 The thing that's funny is when I got that initial 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:01.539 email from Valina, I started listening to the 00:32:01.539 --> 00:32:03.859 tunes. I was like, oh yeah, I know that song. 00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:06.559 I was like, yeah, I know that one too. Oh yeah, 00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.440 I know that song and I actually really like it. 00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:11.640 So I was like, yeah, why not? And bass is such 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:15.440 a prominent part on so many of those songs too. 00:32:15.619 --> 00:32:18.440 It's the driving force of the melody. It's everything. 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.799 Sometimes you don't even care if there is guitar 00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:26.279 on a cracker. There's some wild bass lines. Davey 00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.539 Farragut, they've had fantastic bass players. 00:32:29.019 --> 00:32:33.500 So it's big shoes to fill, in my opinion. But 00:32:33.500 --> 00:32:36.740 yeah, so that was, in fact, I was just thinking 00:32:36.740 --> 00:32:40.019 about it earlier. There was a time where we were 00:32:40.019 --> 00:32:42.440 in London. You got to keep in mind, I'm still 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.500 working at the software place. And at this point, 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:51.519 I was digitizing aerial photos for people's maps. 00:32:51.859 --> 00:32:56.519 It was a GIS thing. I worked with... Rural power 00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:00.220 companies, rural co -ops. So I'm putting these 00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:04.480 people's maps together backstage in London and 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.059 trying to do this install. I'm like, hey, you 00:33:07.059 --> 00:33:09.720 all, I'm going to have to take a break for a 00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.779 few hours. I got to go do a show, but then I'll 00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:15.319 be back. And doing that and then coming back, 00:33:15.420 --> 00:33:18.579 going to the hotel and getting back on. And the 00:33:18.579 --> 00:33:20.599 time difference probably worked in your favor. 00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:24.799 At times, yeah. But then once or twice I would 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.619 get a message from my immediate supervisor. And 00:33:28.619 --> 00:33:31.099 I think really they were just... Why aren't you 00:33:31.099 --> 00:33:32.680 at your desk? They were just checking to see 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:34.960 that I was actually at work. And so the fact 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:38.559 that I was allowed me to keep that until that 00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:42.740 place took the turn and I needed to get out. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:46.380 And then when I got out, I was able to do, you 00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:50.880 know, not stress about it and still had the band. 00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:54.289 And I'm just going to... take a guess that it's 00:33:54.289 --> 00:33:58.109 like profits over people and that's usually the 00:33:58.109 --> 00:34:01.750 the story with a lot of like at its core a handful 00:34:01.750 --> 00:34:04.329 of folks were like that but they were the folks 00:34:04.329 --> 00:34:06.170 that were making decisions right exactly and 00:34:06.170 --> 00:34:07.829 that's yeah that's what i mean with the company 00:34:07.829 --> 00:34:11.349 it started it was a fantastic company it was 00:34:11.349 --> 00:34:16.170 a blessing when i started working honestly it 00:34:16.170 --> 00:34:21.489 was a blessing that i left because that's when 00:34:22.529 --> 00:34:26.070 I started the voiceover career. And how did you 00:34:26.070 --> 00:34:29.630 start with that? It was something I'd always... 00:34:29.630 --> 00:34:32.170 You definitely... And I've been told I have a 00:34:32.170 --> 00:34:34.610 radio... Oh, no, it was Radio Face they told 00:34:34.610 --> 00:34:39.429 me I had. I've heard that. I worked as a board 00:34:39.429 --> 00:34:42.090 operator when we first moved to Georgia. That 00:34:42.090 --> 00:34:43.849 was one of my other jobs, aside from delivering 00:34:43.849 --> 00:34:47.030 steaks. Will you tell the kids what a board operator 00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:51.039 was? So back in the day... We would get these 00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:53.400 shows that would come in, we would get a feed, 00:34:53.420 --> 00:34:57.219 and the board operator, my job was to take what 00:34:57.219 --> 00:35:01.320 we called carts and play PSAs or commercials 00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.880 at the proper time, pot down the feed from the 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.320 broadcast and bring up the local news and do 00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:11.440 that. So I was just controlling the flow of the 00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:15.739 show. Basically like live producing. In a way, 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.360 yeah. Yeah. A live engineering. So you've been 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:24.059 in that world already. You've probably been told 00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:28.639 you have one of those rich voices that is soothing, 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:31.039 easy to listen to, that kind of thing. Initially, 00:35:31.059 --> 00:35:33.559 I was told that, hey, we might get you your own 00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:35.800 show or whatever. I knew I was losing that job 00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.760 when they brought in the computer system. You 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:41.239 may want to pay attention to this. I was like, 00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:45.260 oh, I know what that means. May does not mean 00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:48.889 you need to pay attention to me. Yeah. See ya. 00:35:49.289 --> 00:35:53.550 But it was fine. I wasn't a huge fan of radio. 00:35:53.769 --> 00:35:56.530 I thought it would be more about music instead. 00:35:56.590 --> 00:35:58.449 It was really more about sales. At least the 00:35:58.449 --> 00:36:01.610 radio that I worked in. It's a business. But 00:36:01.610 --> 00:36:04.909 it was something I always wanted to do. And shortly 00:36:04.909 --> 00:36:08.409 before I left the software company, I reconnected 00:36:08.409 --> 00:36:11.530 with an old friend from JMU, Shannon Torrance, 00:36:11.550 --> 00:36:15.070 who was working as a voice actor. And I found 00:36:15.070 --> 00:36:19.070 out about that. We had a talk and she's like, 00:36:19.110 --> 00:36:21.210 I need you to do these things. You got to take 00:36:21.210 --> 00:36:24.050 some kind of class, some kind of course, and 00:36:24.050 --> 00:36:26.570 you have to have a demo made professionally. 00:36:26.869 --> 00:36:28.889 Once you've done that, get back in touch with 00:36:28.889 --> 00:36:33.369 me. And I did that. And the next day she sent 00:36:33.369 --> 00:36:35.949 it out to some of her agents and I got an agent 00:36:35.949 --> 00:36:40.469 the day after I got my demo. So it was very lucky. 00:36:41.179 --> 00:36:44.079 And the classes I took, I'll never forget this. 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.380 I was about to ask. I still know the dates. I 00:36:47.380 --> 00:36:49.539 took them at a place called Yoract, which seemed 00:36:49.539 --> 00:36:53.639 sketchy. And now I know it was sketchy. There 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:56.280 were people in the class that really couldn't 00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.219 read. And just, oh, you're wonderful. You're 00:36:58.219 --> 00:37:02.260 great. Do this. I was like, eh. Like illiterate 00:37:02.260 --> 00:37:06.099 couldn't read? Let's say not the most proficient. 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:09.849 OK. But. There were one or two people that were 00:37:09.849 --> 00:37:12.550 actually really pretty good, but it was, it was 00:37:12.550 --> 00:37:13.869 one of those things where they're like, Hey, 00:37:13.989 --> 00:37:17.610 it's a three week course. And then there are 00:37:17.610 --> 00:37:19.670 three levels of the course. And if you do all 00:37:19.670 --> 00:37:22.889 three levels, then we put you in front of these 00:37:22.889 --> 00:37:27.349 agents or whatever. Learn lately. I learned after 00:37:27.349 --> 00:37:30.250 actually getting into voiceover, that's, that's 00:37:30.250 --> 00:37:32.170 a big red flag because who knows that you're 00:37:32.170 --> 00:37:35.010 going to be ready to do your demo after that. 00:37:35.329 --> 00:37:39.820 But regardless. I was doing those shows. It was 00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:47.619 April 7th, 14th, and 21st. And I know these dates 00:37:47.619 --> 00:37:51.659 because I think it was either the 7th or the 00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:54.760 4th was when Prince was going to do his one show 00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.760 at the Fox. I was like, I'm driving down to this 00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:01.840 voiceover class. I was like, I think I know enough 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:03.860 people. I could probably get into that show if 00:38:03.860 --> 00:38:05.539 I wanted. I'm already down here. I was like, 00:38:05.539 --> 00:38:08.269 nope, nope, not going to do it. I'm just going 00:38:08.269 --> 00:38:11.389 to go and do this class. Like I said, it was 00:38:11.389 --> 00:38:13.210 because he loves to tour. He loves playing. He'll 00:38:13.210 --> 00:38:17.269 be back. And then the 21st, which was my last 00:38:17.269 --> 00:38:20.530 class, was the day he died. And also my birthday 00:38:20.530 --> 00:38:24.550 was the day he died. Worst birthday ever. It 00:38:24.550 --> 00:38:28.210 was a drag because I was working at the software 00:38:28.210 --> 00:38:34.590 company and I was doing an on -site install in... 00:38:35.050 --> 00:38:37.949 somewhere in Wisconsin near Appleton, because 00:38:37.949 --> 00:38:42.230 we flew from Appleton to Detroit at five in the 00:38:42.230 --> 00:38:46.969 morning, Detroit to Atlanta. Then we drove from 00:38:46.969 --> 00:38:50.829 Atlanta to Athens. Then I turned around and drove 00:38:50.829 --> 00:38:55.429 back to Atlanta to do the voice acting class, 00:38:55.550 --> 00:39:00.329 to drive back all on the day, like my musical 00:39:00.329 --> 00:39:04.909 hero. That was a rough day. And it would strike, 00:39:05.030 --> 00:39:08.289 yeah. It was a particularly rough day for you, 00:39:08.329 --> 00:39:11.170 I think, but it was different for a lot of people, 00:39:11.210 --> 00:39:13.789 too. I think America was heartbroken that day, 00:39:13.889 --> 00:39:16.710 or at least the people that gave a shit about 00:39:16.710 --> 00:39:20.349 interesting things. That was a tough one. Yeah, 00:39:20.389 --> 00:39:25.230 man. What's striking to me is the parallel that 00:39:25.230 --> 00:39:28.590 Prince had at the beginning of your, like, he's 00:39:28.590 --> 00:39:31.820 your first show. and your inspiration to start 00:39:31.820 --> 00:39:35.960 playing music. And then he's also weirdly part 00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:38.360 of the beginning of your voice acting career, 00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:43.440 too. There's this very impactful event, The Other 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:47.900 Direction, but involving Prince the day you finish 00:39:47.900 --> 00:39:51.659 those classes. That's why I remember the dates. 00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:54.940 But has that ever occurred? I had never thought 00:39:54.940 --> 00:39:57.760 of it that way, but I can... That's all I heard. 00:39:59.659 --> 00:40:06.059 Prince has always been this constant. But also 00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:10.719 on important, momentous occasions in your life, 00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:16.639 too. So where does it go from taking this class? 00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:19.519 You get your agent. I don't want to just gloss 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.030 over Prince's death. It's all right. Yeah. We've 00:40:23.030 --> 00:40:25.449 moved. America has just... I think people have 00:40:25.449 --> 00:40:29.150 talked about it. You finish these classes, you 00:40:29.150 --> 00:40:33.349 get an agent immediately. Was it... Did it just... 00:40:33.349 --> 00:40:36.210 Did it continue to be that easy, or... Oh, no, 00:40:36.349 --> 00:40:39.829 no. Because I don't get a ton of work through 00:40:39.829 --> 00:40:44.610 the agents because I... You have to guarantee 00:40:44.610 --> 00:40:46.730 that you're going to be in your studio at certain 00:40:46.730 --> 00:40:48.550 dates if you get the job. And I don't want to 00:40:48.550 --> 00:40:51.789 put myself in a position where... If I was actually 00:40:51.789 --> 00:40:54.670 chosen that, oh, I'm actually on the road in 00:40:54.670 --> 00:40:56.550 a hotel where it sounds completely different 00:40:56.550 --> 00:41:01.869 than the audition I sent in. I see. I work with 00:41:01.869 --> 00:41:04.449 a lot of, there are a few pay to play, what they 00:41:04.449 --> 00:41:07.730 call them, sites. And from that, I was able to 00:41:07.730 --> 00:41:10.550 cultivate a good number of clients that became 00:41:10.550 --> 00:41:14.389 steady clients. What are some of the kinds of 00:41:14.389 --> 00:41:19.110 work that you've done that you have? been consistent 00:41:19.110 --> 00:41:21.230 been able to consistently do with voice acting 00:41:21.230 --> 00:41:25.989 i do a lot of like internal explainer videos 00:41:25.989 --> 00:41:32.369 i've done hundreds of videos for walmart explaining 00:41:32.369 --> 00:41:34.550 everything from like how to set up the produce 00:41:34.550 --> 00:41:40.510 ah yeah yeah how to deal with the wiring money 00:41:40.510 --> 00:41:42.949 and stuff like that it's occurring to me that 00:41:42.949 --> 00:41:45.409 i think i've seen videos with your voice like 00:41:45.409 --> 00:41:47.530 corporate So you're talking like corporate training 00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:50.050 videos a lot of the time, things like that. They 00:41:50.050 --> 00:41:53.110 do stuff for the VA. Yeah. Helping train the 00:41:53.110 --> 00:41:55.769 people that are going to be working with. Commercials 00:41:55.769 --> 00:41:59.510 at all? I have a handful of commercials. I had 00:41:59.510 --> 00:42:03.469 one national commercial in 2020 for the census. 00:42:04.429 --> 00:42:07.150 Gotcha. So that one you may, you're likely to 00:42:07.150 --> 00:42:11.440 have heard. Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I'm not. 00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.860 I heart radio. It's more that I'm hearing your 00:42:14.860 --> 00:42:18.360 voice now and thinking, wait a second. So that's 00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:22.340 been a consistent line of work for you as well. 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:26.179 A hunting show. A hunting show. And I'm not a 00:42:26.179 --> 00:42:28.420 big, I've never been hunting in my life. And 00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:31.420 I was like, as long as they're not hunting big 00:42:31.420 --> 00:42:34.760 game, I could do this. That was one where it 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:36.719 was like, yeah, we're going after a big white 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:42.059 tail named Old Red. Quick hunts. Nice. Quick 00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:43.760 hunts was the name. You don't want to say that 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:48.739 too quickly. So, yeah. Don't say quick hunts 00:42:48.739 --> 00:42:53.679 too quickly. Yeah. It's been a wide range of 00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:56.960 stuff for the voiceover. And that's helped you 00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:01.320 be able to stay doing these things that you're 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.889 passionate about instead of having to go. get 00:43:03.889 --> 00:43:06.809 back into the grind and some of the jobs i do 00:43:06.809 --> 00:43:10.190 i am able to set up my little pillow fort or 00:43:10.190 --> 00:43:12.710 i've got a little mobile studio i take around 00:43:12.710 --> 00:43:15.989 and record commercials what kind of equipment 00:43:15.989 --> 00:43:18.750 do you need for for something like that i travel 00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:24.250 with a sennheiser 416 microphone i've used a 00:43:24.250 --> 00:43:27.250 few different interface i use a vault right now 00:43:27.250 --> 00:43:30.409 currently because it's just easy and just running 00:43:30.409 --> 00:43:33.760 that into i use reaper This is my DAW. I'm a 00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:37.219 big fan of Reaper. Gotcha. And yeah, I can just 00:43:37.219 --> 00:43:39.539 crank them out, send them out through weed transfer. 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:44.559 That's amazing. I mean, in some ways it reminds 00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:48.960 me of this because a lot of the time I do these 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:52.239 in my home with a soundboard and everything, 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.860 you know, better mics and stuff, but I don't 00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:57.940 travel with that, but I can do, I can set up 00:43:57.940 --> 00:44:02.000 and do this anywhere. Did one in the foundry, 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.900 in the bar of the foundry the other week. So 00:44:04.900 --> 00:44:07.079 there was a bit of background noise, but it worked 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:11.219 out. How much of that is just improvised over 00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:13.159 the years that you've kind of like, I have a 00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:15.559 problem, I've got to solve it. And then you can 00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:17.960 now work in those conditions. It's a steady, 00:44:18.099 --> 00:44:22.280 every, I feel like I learned something new about 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:25.340 traveling and touring and doing the voiceover 00:44:25.340 --> 00:44:29.579 on the road each year. I learn more and more 00:44:29.579 --> 00:44:32.880 about it. You've got to constantly keep learning. 00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:36.539 Yeah. So, yeah, so I've been, things have improved. 00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:39.300 A lot of it's like just little things, but it's, 00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:43.519 yeah, refining. Yeah, for sure. What are some 00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:45.980 of the ways, and I'm going to just back up and 00:44:45.980 --> 00:44:47.539 shift a little bit here. What are some of the 00:44:47.539 --> 00:44:51.260 ways that you've noticed that Athens has really 00:44:51.260 --> 00:44:55.440 changed since you moved here 19 years ago or 00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:01.880 29 years ago? Sorry, time is a bitch. Yeah, it's 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:05.820 just like anything. There are less mom and pop 00:45:05.820 --> 00:45:09.880 shops downtown than there used to be. I think 00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:13.880 the spirit is still pretty much the same. I think 00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:16.860 that's true. But some of the geography and obviously 00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:21.119 the people have changed, but Athens is still 00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:23.119 a great place to be as far as I'm concerned. 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.119 Yeah, I think it's been shielded from a lot of 00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:28.750 the... You've seen, there's definitely been some 00:45:28.750 --> 00:45:33.469 gentrification here and corporations moving in, 00:45:33.550 --> 00:45:37.670 just like everywhere else. But I do think that 00:45:37.670 --> 00:45:41.570 it has been somewhat shielded from a lot of the 00:45:41.570 --> 00:45:45.429 shit that has really screwed up a lot of the 00:45:45.429 --> 00:45:48.289 other cities in America. There's still a real, 00:45:48.570 --> 00:45:52.250 I think, a true love. music and the arts here 00:45:52.250 --> 00:45:55.610 in town. Yeah, it's a real priority in a way 00:45:55.610 --> 00:45:58.730 that I don't see in other cities that they claim 00:45:58.730 --> 00:46:01.989 they love the arts and do support the arts in 00:46:01.989 --> 00:46:05.150 some ways, but it's not their passion. Padden 00:46:05.150 --> 00:46:08.050 Oswalt has a famous bit about being in Athens 00:46:08.050 --> 00:46:12.010 and the way things were. In the grand scheme, 00:46:12.110 --> 00:46:15.130 a lot of it's true. I think that's pretty supportive. 00:46:15.630 --> 00:46:18.809 So yeah, it's changed, but a lot of it's still 00:46:18.809 --> 00:46:24.429 in a way. still the same. Yeah, I think that's... 00:46:24.429 --> 00:46:28.530 As someone who's been visiting here for 20 years, 00:46:28.730 --> 00:46:33.510 pretty consistently, but just getting these snapshots, 00:46:33.789 --> 00:46:37.210 it's hard to see your kid grow when you're with 00:46:37.210 --> 00:46:39.710 them every day. You know what I mean? But when 00:46:39.710 --> 00:46:42.429 you leave and you come back and you see the differences, 00:46:42.630 --> 00:46:46.489 I've seen the physical changes, but you're right. 00:46:46.550 --> 00:46:50.349 The spirit of this place has maintained. I think 00:46:50.349 --> 00:46:53.809 really consistently. And I can do everything 00:46:53.809 --> 00:46:57.969 and get everything done I need to here. So I 00:46:57.969 --> 00:47:00.969 don't need to be in New York or L .A., though 00:47:00.969 --> 00:47:04.210 there might be more opportunities if I was in 00:47:04.210 --> 00:47:06.469 one of those towns, but I'd still get plenty 00:47:06.469 --> 00:47:09.349 of opportunity. I started doing a lot of remote 00:47:09.349 --> 00:47:14.389 recording during the lockdown and COVID times. 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:18.000 How does recording for voice acting compare to 00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:21.019 recording for music? What are some of the big 00:47:21.019 --> 00:47:23.760 differences for you when you have to do those 00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:29.679 remotely? Oh, those, it's really pretty similar. 00:47:30.460 --> 00:47:33.659 It's just the same kind of things that you're 00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:37.380 keeping in mind. I always get a kick out of the 00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:41.940 scripts I get where I'm the husband. But I only 00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:45.360 read my lines, and I have no idea how the other 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:48.059 actor is delivering theirs. You don't even hear. 00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:50.659 So I love the idea of, well, what if they deliver 00:47:50.659 --> 00:47:52.320 it this way? Then I have to do it like this. 00:47:52.340 --> 00:47:55.940 So I usually do an ABC, three takes that give 00:47:55.940 --> 00:47:59.400 them variety. But remote recording has worked 00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:02.239 out very well for me. And musically, it's worked 00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:05.559 out extremely well. I have a woman I like to 00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:10.559 collaborate with in San Francisco. It's great 00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:13.519 to be able to just send stuff back and forth 00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:18.360 with ease. Yeah, that's, and I hear mixed feelings 00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:21.360 about remote recording, right? Because some people 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:26.139 really lean into, especially when it breaks down 00:48:26.139 --> 00:48:29.079 geographical barriers and things like that. But 00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:32.119 have you ever run into the issue, a common issue 00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:34.300 that I've heard that people have had with it 00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:40.230 is when it's a more collaborative process. recording 00:48:40.230 --> 00:48:43.170 one member might go too far down a rabbit hole 00:48:43.170 --> 00:48:46.269 without feedback without and then it's whereas 00:48:46.269 --> 00:48:49.250 in a studio you might get oh no that's not quite 00:48:49.250 --> 00:48:52.550 what we're trying to do here and then some redirection 00:48:52.550 --> 00:48:55.730 and and i'm thinking of some specific stories 00:48:55.730 --> 00:48:58.070 that i've heard i'm not gonna call anybody out 00:48:58.070 --> 00:49:01.469 but but i've just heard oh we were recording 00:49:01.469 --> 00:49:03.590 this song and and i got this part and then i 00:49:03.590 --> 00:49:07.460 recorded it and i did 10 takes and they ended 00:49:07.460 --> 00:49:09.679 up all not being what they wanted and I didn't 00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:11.579 get any feedback until I had already done all 00:49:11.579 --> 00:49:15.539 10 of the takes or whatever and it's I can honestly 00:49:15.539 --> 00:49:18.679 tell you I have never dealt with that that's 00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:22.159 really cool I think I'm blessed to have a really 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:26.159 great network of musicians that I get to work 00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:29.380 with that I'm lucky enough to work with and I 00:49:29.380 --> 00:49:34.179 am able to communicate an idea to them enough 00:49:35.179 --> 00:49:38.820 And also, if I'm calling on them, I want that 00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:42.699 thing that they do. And sometimes I might say, 00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:44.400 hey, at this park, can you do something a little 00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:47.360 more blah, blah, blah? But in general, no, I've 00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:51.619 never had anyone like way off the mark. You're 00:49:51.619 --> 00:49:55.659 such a calm person, it seems. Is that true on 00:49:55.659 --> 00:50:00.420 the inside? Are you pretty calm throughout, you 00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:05.480 think? I try to be. I don't really see. And nothing 00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:08.380 gets accomplished by freaking out generally. 00:50:08.739 --> 00:50:11.579 Yeah. Because that's the heat of the moment. 00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.739 Let's think about things. A lot of musicians, 00:50:14.980 --> 00:50:19.219 artists of different kinds, it comes from a dark 00:50:19.219 --> 00:50:23.820 place. Whether it's anxiety or a tough upbringing 00:50:23.820 --> 00:50:28.119 or tumultuous relationships, whatever it might 00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.440 be, do you think that that's true for you? Do 00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:35.889 you think that it's rooted in? Conversely, I 00:50:35.889 --> 00:50:38.449 spoke to Jim West from Weird Al's band the other 00:50:38.449 --> 00:50:42.829 week, and he's like, no, not at all. It's just 00:50:42.829 --> 00:50:46.650 love of music. I feel like a totally zen person, 00:50:46.789 --> 00:50:49.929 and I don't struggle with any of those things. 00:50:50.269 --> 00:50:54.329 I think it's probably more common for it to come 00:50:54.329 --> 00:50:57.010 from a darker place, but what about for you? 00:50:57.250 --> 00:51:01.289 I honestly have to say, I mean, it's... It hasn't 00:51:01.289 --> 00:51:04.110 been that dark. At least I haven't perceived 00:51:04.110 --> 00:51:08.429 it as being that dark. I think I have a wonderful 00:51:08.429 --> 00:51:12.829 mother. She's amazing. She'll be 92 this year. 00:51:12.869 --> 00:51:19.809 Wow. Honestly, just raised in a way that has 00:51:19.809 --> 00:51:24.429 made me who I am. And she was never one to be 00:51:24.429 --> 00:51:27.630 loud or freak out or anything like that. So I 00:51:27.630 --> 00:51:32.780 think I get a lot of that. From her. And just 00:51:32.780 --> 00:51:35.679 the way I was raised. My family is very into 00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:40.780 education and things like that. Yeah, yeah. What 00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:45.780 do you have going on? Do you have any goals? 00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:49.519 I'm not somebody that operates with goals. I 00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.980 just do what I have the tools to do in front 00:51:52.980 --> 00:51:55.880 of me and hope it does something. A lot of people 00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.239 do have goals. Where do you... land on that the 00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:04.079 goal is to be able to continue doing these things 00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:07.880 that i do and making a living doing them yeah 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.739 because that's i don't need i love my house i 00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:13.400 don't need a big fancy mansion we would like 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:18.019 a pool one day but it's all just i don't know 00:52:18.019 --> 00:52:21.880 i think i don't spend a lot of time thinking 00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:26.199 about what i don't have yeah i really don't and 00:52:26.670 --> 00:52:29.090 another this goes back to my mom i'm never bored 00:52:29.090 --> 00:52:32.090 that's occurred to me recently i wasn't allowed 00:52:32.090 --> 00:52:35.610 to use the word bored or boring growing up because 00:52:35.610 --> 00:52:38.090 she would find something for me to do and it 00:52:38.090 --> 00:52:42.889 would not be fun so i i i had a boss like that 00:52:42.889 --> 00:52:48.010 do not i i don't and i'm never bored yeah and 00:52:48.010 --> 00:52:52.670 life is good and has its times the vicissitudes 00:52:52.670 --> 00:52:58.170 and it's not but it's I feel blessed. So I just 00:52:58.170 --> 00:53:01.210 try to not take that for granted. Yeah. Yeah, 00:53:01.250 --> 00:53:04.789 it's really easy to take some of that stuff for 00:53:04.789 --> 00:53:08.570 granted, especially when so many negative things 00:53:08.570 --> 00:53:11.650 are going on in the world. And that's all we 00:53:11.650 --> 00:53:17.329 get to hear about. I think when you get to be 00:53:17.329 --> 00:53:20.190 somebody that brings joy to people, whether it's 00:53:20.190 --> 00:53:24.309 through music or whatever, you really see that 00:53:24.309 --> 00:53:28.079 it's... things aren't as bad there's things that 00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:30.219 are terrible don't get me wrong i'm not i'm not 00:53:30.219 --> 00:53:32.539 trying to get like super political here but but 00:53:32.539 --> 00:53:36.139 what i mean is that humanity humans people are 00:53:36.139 --> 00:53:39.099 a lot better than than like the media makes like 00:53:39.099 --> 00:53:43.480 we are not all against each other people are 00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:46.380 out there that most people just want to live 00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:50.119 their life and have a good time agree 100 and 00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:53.159 that's what i don't care about when i'm traveling 00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:57.090 and i don't I think that allows some perspective 00:53:57.090 --> 00:54:01.289 that people that are stuck in one place and they 00:54:01.289 --> 00:54:06.070 don't get to see the good, which is where I think 00:54:06.070 --> 00:54:09.650 music is one of the things that brings. That's 00:54:09.650 --> 00:54:12.309 what makes us human. That's one of the things 00:54:12.309 --> 00:54:15.690 that defines us as human. I think I'm very lucky. 00:54:15.889 --> 00:54:20.590 My job is to try to help people forget their 00:54:20.590 --> 00:54:27.199 problems for 90 minutes at a time. And we were 00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:30.800 playing in Orlando. And we walked out to get 00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:34.139 food. And I'm walking back to the venue. And 00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:37.539 I start seeing this line. And this line is long. 00:54:38.119 --> 00:54:40.559 And I was like, oh, wait. Well, they're coming 00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:43.079 to see us. And I think that's when it occurred 00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:45.780 to me. This is legitimately some people's all 00:54:45.780 --> 00:54:49.079 -time favorite band. And I can never phone in 00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:53.480 a show because people work hard for their money. 00:54:54.250 --> 00:54:56.650 And if they're going to lay down their money, 00:54:56.710 --> 00:54:59.010 especially for something that they love so much, 00:54:59.250 --> 00:55:03.510 I don't want to let them down. Yeah. What have 00:55:03.510 --> 00:55:07.309 you got going on? I feel like this probably won't 00:55:07.309 --> 00:55:08.809 come out until the beginning of next year at 00:55:08.809 --> 00:55:12.170 this point. So what's 2026 looking like for you? 00:55:13.010 --> 00:55:18.110 2026? Hopefully nice. Do you have any tours booked 00:55:18.110 --> 00:55:19.590 or anything like that right now? No, I'm sure 00:55:19.590 --> 00:55:24.480 I'll still be doing stuff with Cracker. Doing 00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:26.579 some recording with Faye Webster. I don't know 00:55:26.579 --> 00:55:29.059 when that will be released. I don't know if it'll 00:55:29.059 --> 00:55:32.420 be out in 2026, but I'm sure there'll still be 00:55:32.420 --> 00:55:35.719 some recording going on with her. Do you prefer 00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:38.840 recording or playing live? I think both. Yeah. 00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:42.760 Are they really different for you? Yeah. I'm 00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:46.219 lucky. I have a little bedroom studio and a lot 00:55:46.219 --> 00:55:51.480 of gear. So it's fun. I love recording. Absolutely. 00:55:51.539 --> 00:55:53.940 Are you a tinkerer? Do you like to fiddle with 00:55:53.940 --> 00:55:57.139 gear and tinker with gear? It depends on the 00:55:57.139 --> 00:55:59.239 gear. I've gotten to the point where I like things 00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:03.639 kind of stock now because if I need to replicate 00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:06.400 something, I want to know what I'm going to get. 00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:12.500 But, yeah, there's a lot of amplifiers, a lot 00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:16.699 of amps, a lot of mics. I'm just a geek. That's 00:56:16.699 --> 00:56:21.500 what it is. Somehow positioned myself that the 00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:26.059 geekiness is what brings in the money. The doing 00:56:26.059 --> 00:56:30.780 voices and recording music. It's crazy. So I 00:56:30.780 --> 00:56:32.960 feel blessed and I don't take it for granted. 00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:36.199 So that's the goal is to be able to maintain 00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:40.920 and do that. I'm super lucky to sit here and 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:43.280 have this conversation with you. And I really 00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:45.019 appreciate you being here, Brian. It's my pleasure. 00:56:45.670 --> 00:56:48.210 Is there anything else that you feel like we 00:56:48.210 --> 00:56:52.949 started to talk about? I'm giving you an opportunity 00:56:52.949 --> 00:56:54.809 to tie up any loose ends if you think there are 00:56:54.809 --> 00:56:59.690 any. There's so much. Now that I'm thinking about 00:56:59.690 --> 00:57:03.889 it, I'm overwhelmed. I think we've touched on 00:57:03.889 --> 00:57:06.250 enough for this. That's awesome. Maybe one day 00:57:06.250 --> 00:57:08.449 there'll be a part two. Hell yeah. Thanks for 00:57:08.449 --> 00:57:09.989 being here, man. Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for 00:57:09.989 --> 00:57:12.460 having me. I hope you enjoyed my interview with 00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:16.639 Brian J. Howard. He was a real gem. Really enjoyed 00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:19.920 talking to him. I'm going to be doing all new 00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:22.519 material tonight at BIRDS, so check that out. 00:57:23.460 --> 00:57:27.000 And come on out tomorrow for science trivia at 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:29.820 Blue Tavern. That's going to be a fun time. We're 00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:32.380 going to do a music round of songs about science, 00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:35.099 so come check that out. Before we wrap up, I 00:57:35.099 --> 00:57:37.440 just want to say, first of all, thank you all 00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:40.800 for listening and sticking around. I do want 00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:43.059 to say that Overeducated and Underemployed is 00:57:43.059 --> 00:57:47.599 completely independently made by me from start 00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:50.599 to finish. So if you enjoy these conversations 00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:53.980 and want to help keep the show sustainable, I've 00:57:53.980 --> 00:57:56.739 started a Patreon. There's some bonus content 00:57:56.739 --> 00:57:59.599 there, but mostly it's just a way to directly 00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:02.599 support the work. And you can find it linked 00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:04.639 in the description. Thanks so much for listening. 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:06.360 Take us out of here, Sloan.