WEBVTT 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:50.560 the overeducated and underemployed this is the 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.439 last interview that we've got this year and it's 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:58.460 a doozy um I'm gonna not waste much of your time 00:00:58.460 --> 00:01:01.939 because we got Jim Kimo West from Weird Al Yankovic's 00:01:01.939 --> 00:01:04.980 band he's a Grammy award -winning Hawaiian slack 00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:08.359 key guitar player and his latest project Sounds 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:12.120 of Kumba is also nominated for a Grammy this 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:14.500 year I encourage you to check it out. There's 00:01:14.500 --> 00:01:16.980 links in the description. We had a great talk 00:01:16.980 --> 00:01:20.099 about everything from his childhood all the way 00:01:20.099 --> 00:01:22.299 up until what's going on on the latest tour. 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:25.959 So I really hope you enjoy this. Thanks for tuning 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:28.599 in. Hit that subscribe button. We've got a lot 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:30.579 more coming next year. I'm not going to waste 00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:32.599 any more time though. Here's my interview with 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:35.980 Jim Kimo West. I'll put out one more episode 00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:37.939 this year just kind of recapping some stuff. 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:39.959 But this is the last interview for the year. 00:01:40.269 --> 00:01:42.269 Thank you all so much. Thanks to everybody that's 00:01:42.269 --> 00:01:45.730 been on this show. And let's get right into it. 00:01:46.530 --> 00:01:50.269 I'm here with Jim Kimo West, who is a Grammy 00:01:50.269 --> 00:01:53.849 Award winning guitar player and guitar player 00:01:53.849 --> 00:01:57.810 for Weird Al Yankovic. And welcome to Overeducated 00:01:57.810 --> 00:01:59.930 and Underemployed. I appreciate you being here. 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:02.500 That's perfect. I love the title of your show. 00:02:02.620 --> 00:02:07.159 It works for me. It's the state of America, I 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:10.280 think, at this point. I think so. I think you're 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.900 right about that. I'm going to start with the 00:02:13.900 --> 00:02:16.939 question that I ask everybody, and that's, what 00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:19.419 was the first song that you remember loving as 00:02:19.419 --> 00:02:23.020 a kid? Yeah, my older brother, he's 10 years 00:02:23.020 --> 00:02:25.699 older than me, he had... As a kid, he would buy 00:02:25.699 --> 00:02:29.199 these novelty records on 45. And I remember one 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:31.960 maybe like the Flying Purple People Eater and 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:34.680 just these comedy songs were being some of the 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:38.539 first things that I remember as a kid. Although 00:02:38.539 --> 00:02:42.680 I've also, it's funny because I've had a partial 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:45.199 career as a composer and I've always been in, 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:47.580 music has always affected me in a great way. 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:49.919 And I remember as a kid, I literally remember 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:53.280 being affected by a piece of music. that was 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.039 a theme to a TV show. My parents would watch 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.900 TV shows in the evening. And there was a show 00:02:59.900 --> 00:03:03.020 called Dr. Kildare, which was, oh, I can't think 00:03:03.020 --> 00:03:04.979 of the actor, famous actor played. It was one 00:03:04.979 --> 00:03:07.620 of those early doctor shows, probably maybe the 00:03:07.620 --> 00:03:10.900 first one. And it had an amazing theme song. 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:13.219 And I can't sing it right now, but I remember 00:03:13.219 --> 00:03:16.000 as a kid being actually affected by that and 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:19.819 feeling like an emotional effect from that music. 00:03:21.530 --> 00:03:24.969 Throughout my life, music has affected me deeply. 00:03:25.449 --> 00:03:29.169 Yeah, yeah. It's interesting that... It was one 00:03:29.169 --> 00:03:31.689 thing I was curious about that leads to a broader 00:03:31.689 --> 00:03:36.530 question I had was like, how into the type of 00:03:36.530 --> 00:03:39.930 music that you ended up playing with Al were 00:03:39.930 --> 00:03:43.810 you before you joined his band? And that's interesting. 00:03:44.310 --> 00:03:47.849 I think I read a story about how Frank Zappa 00:03:47.849 --> 00:03:53.439 was inadvertently related to... you moving out 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:58.060 to LA and getting Al's band. And I think it's 00:03:58.060 --> 00:04:00.340 cool because it became, it came full circle because 00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:03.439 Genius in France ended up being like my introduction 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.159 to Frank Zappa's music. And I think for a lot 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:09.340 of other people. Oh, right. Yeah, that's an interesting 00:04:09.340 --> 00:04:13.580 story. I had played in cover bands a lot, like 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:15.520 we all do when we start playing rock and roll. 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.759 Some of the bands, some of my first bands were 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:21.420 we would play covers but we weren't like a lounge 00:04:21.420 --> 00:04:24.779 band we would play really cool covers and i was 00:04:24.779 --> 00:04:28.500 playing in a house band situation with steve 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:32.300 j al's bass player and we were playing at this 00:04:32.300 --> 00:04:34.360 big club it was probably the best gig you could 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:37.990 get in the state it was a big club play there 00:04:37.990 --> 00:04:41.250 six nights a week and it was a lot of times different 00:04:41.250 --> 00:04:43.050 rock stars would come in there like on their 00:04:43.050 --> 00:04:45.329 nights off and frank zappa came in one night 00:04:45.329 --> 00:04:47.970 and really liked the band he said oh i think 00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:50.009 this is like the best cover band i've heard and 00:04:50.009 --> 00:04:52.649 and and it was a nice production because we had 00:04:52.649 --> 00:04:55.110 a big pa we had a sound guy and a lighting guy 00:04:55.110 --> 00:04:58.850 and it was quite it was a nice production anyway 00:04:58.850 --> 00:05:02.050 he asked for our phone numbers and he did never 00:05:02.050 --> 00:05:04.350 called me but he did call steve and ask him to 00:05:04.350 --> 00:05:07.769 audition for his band so steve came out to los 00:05:07.769 --> 00:05:11.310 angeles to audition didn't get the job but decided 00:05:11.310 --> 00:05:13.810 to stay in la and started playing in some bands 00:05:13.810 --> 00:05:16.470 and he met some guys who were looking for a guitar 00:05:16.470 --> 00:05:19.709 player so he introduced them to me and i was 00:05:19.709 --> 00:05:21.610 ready to move i knew at some point i would have 00:05:21.610 --> 00:05:25.490 to move to new york or la so i said okay i'm 00:05:25.490 --> 00:05:29.410 coming out and i drove out to la and became started 00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:34.519 working right away and about a year later Steve 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:38.339 met Al, I think he got called, hired to play 00:05:38.339 --> 00:05:40.939 bass on Al's very first album, record deal album, 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:44.759 and he was looking for a guitar player, and I 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:48.560 got recommended, I didn't audition, and I really 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.379 didn't know much about Al, but I really respected, 00:05:51.579 --> 00:05:54.399 once I started learning the songs, I really gained 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:55.639 a lot of respect for them, because they were 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:57.639 very well crafted, even those early ones from 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:03.250 way back. Yeah, that's very true. We can get 00:06:03.250 --> 00:06:05.009 a little bit more into that in a few minutes. 00:06:05.050 --> 00:06:07.949 I do want to back up a little bit, though I started 00:06:07.949 --> 00:06:10.870 to get ahead of myself. But you knew at a pretty 00:06:10.870 --> 00:06:12.850 young age that you wanted to be a professional 00:06:12.850 --> 00:06:16.110 musician. I think I read somewhere like 16 or 00:06:16.110 --> 00:06:21.709 17. When did you start playing music? Where did 00:06:21.709 --> 00:06:25.889 you go from, okay, I love music, it affects me, 00:06:25.930 --> 00:06:28.930 to I want to start playing and making music of 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:32.660 my own? playing when i was 12 my older brother 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:35.560 had a guitar in the closet he wasn't playing 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.779 and i started noodling around on it so he got 00:06:38.779 --> 00:06:41.920 me a book and strings and new strings and etc 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.600 etc and i fell in love with that was an acoustic 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.379 guitar and then a couple of years later of course 00:06:47.379 --> 00:06:50.399 i wanted to get into electric guitar my friend 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.279 of mine loaned me a guitar and an amp and we 00:06:53.870 --> 00:06:56.269 play jam together. I didn't really know a lot 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:58.509 of musicians, but I had a couple friends from 00:06:58.509 --> 00:07:01.110 high school I would jam with. But at a certain 00:07:01.110 --> 00:07:04.750 point, a friend of mine asked me if I wanted 00:07:04.750 --> 00:07:07.689 to be in this band, and they had a paying gig. 00:07:08.029 --> 00:07:12.389 And I was probably 16, I think. And I said, of 00:07:12.389 --> 00:07:15.230 course. And I actually played my first paying 00:07:15.230 --> 00:07:18.389 gig when I was 16. And then I got into another 00:07:18.389 --> 00:07:22.170 band, and we started working regularly. And I 00:07:22.170 --> 00:07:25.160 just By the time I was 17, it was like, you know, 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:26.879 I had been in college because I was studying 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.779 art, visual arts, but the music thing was like, 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:32.899 this is a lot more fun and I'm making money. 00:07:33.060 --> 00:07:36.540 And so I decided when I was 17, that would be 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:40.339 what I would do. Yeah. Were you playing mostly 00:07:40.339 --> 00:07:42.139 in cover bands? Were you all playing original 00:07:42.139 --> 00:07:46.939 music or kind of a combination? Yeah, both. Yeah, 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:51.100 both. I was in a couple bands where we did a 00:07:51.100 --> 00:07:57.209 lot of... But we would also throw in some originals, 00:07:57.209 --> 00:07:59.189 even some things I wrote when I was a teenager. 00:08:00.569 --> 00:08:04.709 And later on, a few years later, I was in some 00:08:04.709 --> 00:08:06.949 other bands where it was maybe half and half 00:08:06.949 --> 00:08:10.050 original music and covers. We were playing like 00:08:10.050 --> 00:08:12.730 cool covers as opposed to holiday and lounge 00:08:12.730 --> 00:08:16.009 covers. More southern rock was big in those days 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:19.189 and stuff like that. So we were playing cool 00:08:19.189 --> 00:08:24.850 covers and originals. Playing covers, of course, 00:08:25.029 --> 00:08:27.649 learning covers and learning them note for note 00:08:27.649 --> 00:08:30.449 and everything was a good preparation for working 00:08:30.449 --> 00:08:34.009 with Al. Yeah, it's interesting to me that Frank 00:08:34.009 --> 00:08:38.669 said that you and Steve were in the best cover 00:08:38.669 --> 00:08:43.029 band he'd ever heard. And then I think that's 00:08:43.029 --> 00:08:47.830 been said about Al's band for years and something 00:08:47.830 --> 00:08:51.210 I would agree with, especially... On that tour 00:08:51.210 --> 00:08:53.110 where you played like a different cover every 00:08:53.110 --> 00:08:56.549 night and really proved you could. Yeah. I mean, 00:08:56.549 --> 00:08:59.289 you've proved you can play anything over the 00:08:59.289 --> 00:09:01.950 years, but then you played everything in one 00:09:01.950 --> 00:09:04.750 year. And that was pretty amazing. Yeah. Yeah. 00:09:04.830 --> 00:09:06.830 Seventy seven different seventy seven different 00:09:06.830 --> 00:09:10.669 covers. Yeah. We got we got peaches at the show 00:09:10.669 --> 00:09:12.870 I was at by the by the presidents of the United 00:09:12.870 --> 00:09:17.519 States of America. So that was right. So. Did 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:20.120 you tour with any of these bands as a teenager 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.460 or were you playing mostly like you said you 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:27.440 had a house gig with the band that Zappa saw? 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.179 Yeah, that was the last band I was in before 00:09:31.179 --> 00:09:33.659 I moved to L .A. Yeah, my earlier bands, we would 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:37.779 tour, play shows not far. We would play around 00:09:37.779 --> 00:09:40.720 Florida and then sometimes up into Georgia and 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:44.860 Alabama on a couple of some of those bands. But 00:09:44.860 --> 00:09:47.159 we would just tour regionally. And they would 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:49.879 often, because of the kind of band we were, we 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:52.700 were playing these sort of rock clubs where you 00:09:52.700 --> 00:09:55.240 might be there for two weeks in one place, playing 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:59.059 every night for two weeks or something. I'm curious 00:09:59.059 --> 00:10:06.299 how booking was different. There's a lot of technological 00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:11.139 differences, for one, but having to navigate 00:10:11.139 --> 00:10:15.120 and find places is just very basic. thing that 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:17.600 i think people think about but i think booking 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:22.000 and promoting and even finding clubs that you 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:25.000 can play at in other cities is there anything 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:27.519 you remember about that was particularly true 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:31.159 yeah i think in some of my earliest bands i think 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:33.580 i did all the booking i don't know why but i 00:10:33.580 --> 00:10:35.960 guess nobody else could do it so i figured it 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:38.960 out but then even in one of my early bands when 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:40.879 i was still a teenager we actually had a booking 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:44.460 agent who would book us into teen centers and 00:10:44.460 --> 00:10:48.059 stuff like that but so some of the bands there 00:10:48.059 --> 00:10:50.700 would be a booking agent and she would line it 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:53.000 up and other bands we would just do it on our 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:55.620 own we just hear about a good place to play and 00:10:55.620 --> 00:10:58.159 we'd call and talk to somebody on the phone old 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:02.039 school and they would send them maybe we'd have 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:04.340 to send them a demo tape or a pictures or things 00:11:04.340 --> 00:11:07.419 like that send them a little promo kit and but 00:11:07.419 --> 00:11:11.000 it was old school but it worked we we always 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:13.879 we were always working And what was the music 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.360 you were listening to at the time, particularly 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:19.860 teenage into college? What were some of your 00:11:19.860 --> 00:11:22.700 favorite bands, maybe some of the bands you liked 00:11:22.700 --> 00:11:25.019 to go see, things like that? Was there anything 00:11:25.019 --> 00:11:32.419 that sticks out? Well, gee, I did get to see 00:11:32.419 --> 00:11:35.539 a lot of concerts. For a while, because of my 00:11:35.539 --> 00:11:38.279 art background, I was doing posters for the local 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:43.820 promoter for all the shows. As a quirk, I would 00:11:43.820 --> 00:11:46.600 get to go to those shows and be backstage and 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:49.320 everything. So I saw all kinds of people. Jeff 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:55.259 Beck and Jeff Thrall and Just Yes and all kinds 00:11:55.259 --> 00:11:58.399 of different bands. For a while there, in my 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:02.139 later teens, I was getting into, you know, back 00:12:02.139 --> 00:12:05.440 in the day, prog rock, progressive rock, stuff 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:09.720 that was more musically challenging. In our bands, 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:11.620 we would sometimes play Allman Brothers songs 00:12:11.620 --> 00:12:14.360 and blues -based things like that. And that was 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:18.379 fun. Musically, I started getting into some of 00:12:18.379 --> 00:12:20.919 these English prog bands and things like that 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:23.019 because it was musically more challenging and 00:12:23.019 --> 00:12:25.440 more interesting. We would play some of that 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:28.139 kind of stuff. And then some of the later bands, 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:32.860 we'd play Steely Dan songs and this and that. 00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:37.039 Stuff that was musically satisfying. But as you 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.990 develop... your musicality what you'd like to 00:12:39.990 --> 00:12:43.730 play stuff that's more challenging so we managed 00:12:43.730 --> 00:12:47.809 to still play enough regular stuff to keep booking 00:12:47.809 --> 00:12:50.090 but keep booking the shows but we would throw 00:12:50.090 --> 00:12:55.710 in cool stuff too yeah i feel like so many bands 00:12:55.710 --> 00:12:59.429 now at least in my area you go see cover bands 00:12:59.429 --> 00:13:01.690 and they play like the same songs that people 00:13:01.690 --> 00:13:05.330 are like singing at karaoke it's really yeah 00:13:06.509 --> 00:13:09.610 learn about a new song from a cover band or yeah 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:15.750 we in my last band the one at the house band 00:13:15.750 --> 00:13:18.710 gig we would learn like three songs a week new 00:13:18.710 --> 00:13:23.289 songs and so it kept your kept you fresh all 00:13:23.289 --> 00:13:27.210 the time yeah yeah and it seems like that's something 00:13:27.210 --> 00:13:30.769 you've continued through the years to like continually 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:34.690 want to challenge yourself musically not just 00:13:34.690 --> 00:13:37.950 like without but You started putting solo albums 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:42.190 out 25 years ago now at this point. Yeah, yeah. 00:13:42.409 --> 00:13:45.789 And I think, where do you think the need for 00:13:45.789 --> 00:13:50.570 an outlet, just a creative outlet? I think there's 00:13:50.570 --> 00:13:55.549 a lot of musicians, comedians have, and this 00:13:55.549 --> 00:13:57.649 isn't universally true, but a lot of them have 00:13:57.649 --> 00:14:00.970 maybe a tumultuous upbringing or they struggle 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:03.330 with like anxiety or depression or have some 00:14:03.330 --> 00:14:06.399 kind of internal struggle. Was there anything 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:09.379 that you can think of that was ever a driving 00:14:09.379 --> 00:14:12.139 force or was it just a love of music that always 00:14:12.139 --> 00:14:15.679 drew you in? It really was just a love of music 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.419 that drew me in. And of course, once I started 00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:21.620 playing live shows and got that feeling of being 00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:24.480 on stage and people enjoying it, then that, of 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.500 course, feeds that. But it's always been a love 00:14:27.500 --> 00:14:31.059 of music. And to this day, even if I wasn't performing, 00:14:31.220 --> 00:14:33.340 I would still be writing music for the love of 00:14:33.340 --> 00:14:37.110 it. When I got into my solo music, the Hawaiian 00:14:37.110 --> 00:14:40.690 slack key guitar, that was something I got into 00:14:40.690 --> 00:14:43.970 purely for the love of it. I had started writing 00:14:43.970 --> 00:14:48.789 my own slack key guitar songs and I would record 00:14:48.789 --> 00:14:51.210 them so I wouldn't forget them. And then at some 00:14:51.210 --> 00:14:52.809 point somebody said, well, you know, you've got 00:14:52.809 --> 00:14:55.190 all these songs. Why don't you make a CD? And 00:14:55.190 --> 00:14:57.970 I had not even considered that because I didn't 00:14:57.970 --> 00:15:00.279 consider it to be something that. you know i 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:02.159 wanted to do commercially it was just something 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.399 i loved and then another friend of mine you know 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:06.860 artist friend offered you to do the cover and 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:10.639 all of a sudden i had a cd and then i had a cd 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.259 some cd release parties and all of a sudden i 00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:16.299 was asked asked to play at the slack key festival 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:19.720 and then it just kind of mushroomed from there 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:22.480 but it was all pretty much intentional and unintentional 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:25.899 and it was um really based on just for the love 00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:29.120 of the music can you tell us a little bit about 00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:33.049 like the origins and history of slack key guitar 00:15:33.049 --> 00:15:37.190 because I know it goes back to the 19th century 00:15:37.190 --> 00:15:41.690 and you started going to Hawaii in the 80s I 00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:44.529 think you said at one point yeah yeah I think 00:15:44.529 --> 00:15:48.590 1985 is when I first went to Hawaii yeah I think 00:15:48.590 --> 00:15:50.889 I had heard about slack key guitar I'd read about 00:15:50.889 --> 00:15:53.210 maybe an article about Rye Cooter or somebody 00:15:53.210 --> 00:15:56.309 like that but Slack key is an old style. It's 00:15:56.309 --> 00:15:58.169 actually older than the blues. It started probably 00:15:58.169 --> 00:16:01.049 in the 1830s on the big island of Hawaii. What 00:16:01.049 --> 00:16:05.370 had happened was Kamehameha III had brought over, 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:09.929 he contracted some Spanish vaqueros, cowboys, 00:16:10.049 --> 00:16:12.710 Spanish cowboys from what is now California, 00:16:12.929 --> 00:16:15.769 which was Spanish back then, because they had 00:16:15.769 --> 00:16:19.830 the knowledge about managing cattle, roping them. 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.460 all that stuff there had been this overpopulation 00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:25.820 of cattle on the big island because one of the 00:16:25.820 --> 00:16:27.840 early explorers george vancouver thought it would 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.519 be a good idea to bring five head of cattle over 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:33.700 and give them to the king but i think they wanted 00:16:33.700 --> 00:16:36.720 to establish food a meat source on the island 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.379 but the cows escaped and became feral and over 00:16:40.379 --> 00:16:43.279 the years there was just tons of these huge longhorn 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:46.000 cattle all over the islands and the local people 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.809 didn't know what to how to control them They 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:52.409 were scary. When Kamehameha III contracted the 00:16:52.409 --> 00:16:54.450 Spanish vaqueros to come over, they brought over 00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:56.809 their ponies and their saddles, and they also 00:16:56.809 --> 00:16:59.429 had guitars. And at the end of the day, they 00:16:59.429 --> 00:17:01.809 would play some music around the campfire, which 00:17:01.809 --> 00:17:05.690 also helped calm the cattle. The cattle tend 00:17:05.690 --> 00:17:09.769 to calm down when they hear music. And the Hawaiians 00:17:09.769 --> 00:17:11.470 were mesmerized. They had never seen a guitar 00:17:11.470 --> 00:17:20.480 before. left some of the guitars behind and the 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.440 Hawaiians they would all have this one instrument 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:26.039 how can we make it sound like a whole band with 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:27.859 one instrument so they would slack some of the 00:17:27.859 --> 00:17:30.779 strings down to create different tunings and 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:33.460 that way they could play bass and melody and 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:35.299 everything at the same time and all the different 00:17:35.299 --> 00:17:37.319 families would have their own different tunings 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.460 their own sort of family recipe and it eventually 00:17:40.460 --> 00:17:43.519 spread to the other islands and but for many 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:46.500 years it was only ever just played at home it 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:49.019 was back porch music it wasn't something you 00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:51.940 would perform and it wasn't even really officially 00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:55.319 recorded until the 40s i think gabby probably 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:58.420 knew he put out the first slack key commercial 00:17:58.420 --> 00:18:03.259 record in 1946 and then during the 70s it got 00:18:03.259 --> 00:18:06.619 rediscovered and and you started seeing slack 00:18:06.619 --> 00:18:09.440 key albums being produced but but it's got a 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:11.259 long history like i say it's probably older than 00:18:11.259 --> 00:18:14.200 the blues that's an incredible story actually 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.599 it's and it is I've got to say, some of the most 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:22.019 calming music I've ever listened to. Yeah, it's... 00:18:22.019 --> 00:18:28.079 You turn that on and you'll be the most zen guy 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:30.720 on the road, I'll tell you. It's true, yeah. 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:33.740 I do the same. Sometimes if I'm on the freeway, 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.759 I'll put on, not one of my CDs, but I'll put 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:38.900 on some other slack key and it just calms you 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:43.680 right down. It's a beautiful... It's one of those 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.420 kinds of music that sounds like the place. When 00:18:46.420 --> 00:18:48.960 you're in a really beautiful part of Hawaii and 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:50.700 you hear slack key, that's what sort of drew 00:18:50.700 --> 00:18:53.299 me into it was the feeling that it represented 00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:57.980 the place so well, especially rural Hawaii. And 00:18:57.980 --> 00:19:00.619 where I was staying out in Hana, Maui, it was 00:19:00.619 --> 00:19:05.119 a small town, one gas station and two little 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:09.460 stores and lots of horses and cattle and chickens 00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:13.559 and very lush. You had a lot of streams and waterfalls 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.140 and things like that. And that music just really 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:19.900 described the place. That's what sort of made 00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:24.059 me fall in love with it. Yeah. And you fell so 00:19:24.059 --> 00:19:26.619 in love with Hawaii that you spend several months 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:30.140 a year there, if I'm not mistaken, correct? Yeah. 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:35.059 As I'm more busy, I spend less time there, but 00:19:35.059 --> 00:19:37.200 I'm usually over there about four times a year 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.859 and sometimes to perform and then sometimes just 00:19:39.859 --> 00:19:43.720 to relax. So I have a long... a long relationship 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:48.380 with Hawaii in general. And I will probably eventually 00:19:48.380 --> 00:19:50.779 move there full -time, back there full -time 00:19:50.779 --> 00:19:55.299 at some point. And so you moved to L .A. in the 00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:57.920 early 80s, and you started going to Hawaii in 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:02.960 the mid -80s. How much did your personal playing 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:06.660 kind of change when you left Tampa and moved 00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:08.759 to L .A. and started visiting these other places 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.430 and hearing these other types of music? Coming 00:20:12.430 --> 00:20:16.589 to L .A. was a great thing because all of a sudden 00:20:16.589 --> 00:20:20.309 you're around so many fantastic musicians. I 00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:25.230 remember the first band I was in, we went out, 00:20:25.269 --> 00:20:27.450 we were rehearsing one day, and we went out one 00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:30.750 evening to hear some musicians, and these guys 00:20:30.750 --> 00:20:33.930 were all like the best players I'd ever heard 00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:38.569 in my life, and it was inspiring. It was sort 00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:42.950 of... intimidating as well, but it was inspiring 00:20:42.950 --> 00:20:45.970 to see the level of musicianship that we had 00:20:45.970 --> 00:20:48.670 here in L .A. And then, of course, when I went 00:20:48.670 --> 00:20:51.609 to Hawaii, the Hawaiian slack key guitar and 00:20:51.609 --> 00:20:54.470 Hawaiian music in general was a new discovery 00:20:54.470 --> 00:20:56.410 for me. And for many years, I'd like to just 00:20:56.410 --> 00:20:58.569 listen to it before I ever tried to really play 00:20:58.569 --> 00:21:03.210 it. I just like to listen to slack key. And it 00:21:03.210 --> 00:21:07.289 gradually just crept into my life. But you're... 00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:10.160 At this point, you're playing with Al as well, 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:13.839 and you're being challenged to play all kinds 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.700 of genres of music that I imagine some of it's 00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:19.000 not even things that you were listening to at 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.680 the time. Right. What was it like to try and 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.140 emulate some of the guitar sounds that were so 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:29.339 precise, and especially stuff that you weren't 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:33.059 necessarily a fan of before it being brought 00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:38.049 into the world that you were playing? It's always 00:21:38.049 --> 00:21:40.930 a challenge. It's kind of like being a sonic 00:21:40.930 --> 00:21:44.329 detective. If we were doing a parody, the job 00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:46.190 would be to try and recreate it as faithfully 00:21:46.190 --> 00:21:49.269 as possible. And so that would mean listening 00:21:49.269 --> 00:21:51.930 to try to, sometimes you'd have a song that might 00:21:51.930 --> 00:21:54.130 have six guitar parts. So you're going through 00:21:54.130 --> 00:21:57.049 the song bit by bit and trying to figure out 00:21:57.049 --> 00:21:59.569 what each part is and make notes about the sound. 00:21:59.769 --> 00:22:03.470 And so it's like a craft. It was something you 00:22:03.470 --> 00:22:07.769 just learned to do. Later on. As a lot of pop 00:22:07.769 --> 00:22:11.190 music started having less and less guitar, I 00:22:11.190 --> 00:22:14.410 started doing some of the programming, the actual 00:22:14.410 --> 00:22:16.710 keyboard parts and things like that, because 00:22:16.710 --> 00:22:19.210 I had a lot of experience with that, working 00:22:19.210 --> 00:22:22.490 as a composer for TV and film, like White and 00:22:22.490 --> 00:22:25.809 Nerdy and things like that. I would do all those 00:22:25.809 --> 00:22:29.289 keyboard parts and stuff like that for those 00:22:29.289 --> 00:22:32.349 kind of tracks. But yeah, it's like being... 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:35.579 a sonic like i say a sonic detective you're just 00:22:35.579 --> 00:22:38.039 trying to find these parts nowadays they have 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:41.200 ai stuff that actually isolates tracks which 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:43.579 would have been very helpful back in the day 00:22:43.579 --> 00:22:48.539 but i also think like you your ability to recreate 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:51.920 those sounds live and everything like that has 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:55.500 gotten easier for you your rig has gotten a lot 00:22:55.500 --> 00:22:59.180 less complicated when you play live And you've 00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:01.680 been able to take it, and not only that, I think 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:05.880 the show itself as a whole has really, over the 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.079 years, morphed with the technological advances 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:11.759 and the ability to incorporate more multimedia. 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:16.559 Sure, yeah. Yeah, I work at getting the sounds 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:20.000 as close as I can. I don't go overboard, but 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:23.660 I use what I have and try and do the best job 00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:26.920 I can with what I have. One of my favorite stories 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:32.180 is... about the Beverly Hillbillies. Because 00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:35.740 Mark Knopfler ends up playing on the actual... 00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:40.799 But I've read that... I'll say at one point that... 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.740 Jim's was... It sounded more like the original. 00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:48.480 Because at this point, Mark had gotten just so 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.720 used to playing it freely, and it didn't sound 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.900 quite as... And of course, the Mark Knopfler 00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:56.980 ones was used, but... I think that was just, 00:23:57.019 --> 00:23:58.859 that story always stuck with me. It's just like 00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:03.240 a testament of your ability to recreate all these 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:10.519 legendary guitar parts. Yeah, Mark was, I think 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:12.099 probably from playing it live, like you said, 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:14.819 he had probably made some little changes to it, 00:24:14.900 --> 00:24:16.700 but I tried to get it as close to the record. 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:20.859 But when I heard that he was available to do 00:24:20.859 --> 00:24:23.400 it, of course, we all wanted that. That's great 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:27.099 to have him do it. And also he got the sound 00:24:27.099 --> 00:24:29.539 more accurate because he had the same guitar 00:24:29.539 --> 00:24:32.900 and the same amp and all that stuff. He was able 00:24:32.900 --> 00:24:36.059 to nail the sound better than I was. But yeah, 00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:40.839 it is a funny story. So at what point did you 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.960 accept that you were part of something that was 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:48.579 going to be more than just a band? In the early 00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:52.079 90s, there's the TV show and the tour gets more 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.240 and more theatrical. At what point did you realize 00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.079 this was going to be something that you were 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:02.519 going to be doing for probably a long time? In 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.980 the beginning, none of us thought it would last 00:25:04.980 --> 00:25:08.539 more than a few years because it's kind of a 00:25:08.539 --> 00:25:11.200 novelty thing. And we thought if we can get three 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.880 years or five years out of it, we'd be very lucky. 00:25:14.059 --> 00:25:17.579 So none of us expected it to have this kind of 00:25:17.579 --> 00:25:22.940 longevity. But yeah, as the show gets bigger 00:25:22.940 --> 00:25:27.420 and bigger, Also, we, as a band, become more 00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:30.799 visible and known to people. I was even portrayed 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:36.859 by an actor in Al's movie. That was kind of takes 00:25:36.859 --> 00:25:41.180 it to another level. But yeah, it's like I say, 00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:45.400 we never expected it to go to have this kind 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:50.200 of longevity. And it's been an amazing ride for 00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:54.430 sure. And you've talked about How fortunate that 00:25:54.430 --> 00:25:59.750 you are to get to play music for a living. But 00:25:59.750 --> 00:26:03.150 at the end of the day, it is still a job. Can 00:26:03.150 --> 00:26:06.230 we talk about some of the monotony of the day 00:26:06.230 --> 00:26:09.490 -to -day, of being on the road? What are some 00:26:09.490 --> 00:26:12.430 of the things that you've done? The road can 00:26:12.430 --> 00:26:16.289 kill people. The boredom alone. What are some 00:26:16.289 --> 00:26:17.650 of the things that you've done over the years 00:26:17.650 --> 00:26:21.109 to make sure that you've stayed healthy and happy 00:26:21.109 --> 00:26:25.829 on the road? Let it overtake, you know, your 00:26:25.829 --> 00:26:28.269 psyche and that sort of thing. You're right. 00:26:28.369 --> 00:26:33.130 It's the same thing every day. The hotel room 00:26:33.130 --> 00:26:37.630 and going to the venue and all that stuff. Now, 00:26:37.630 --> 00:26:40.710 on previous tours, not this last one, but on 00:26:40.710 --> 00:26:43.029 a lot of previous tours, I would carry a folding 00:26:43.029 --> 00:26:47.630 bike with me. And I would take that around during 00:26:47.630 --> 00:26:51.519 my free time and explore. Sometimes on days off, 00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:53.599 I'd rent a car and put it in the trunk and go 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.700 to a park or a national park or something like 00:26:56.700 --> 00:26:59.420 that. That was one thing that I did on previous 00:26:59.420 --> 00:27:04.119 tours was having this bike with me. Now on this 00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:06.000 tour, I really missed it because we had extra, 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:08.779 a bigger band and we didn't have room on the 00:27:08.779 --> 00:27:13.359 bus for the bike. So I missed it this time, but 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.559 I try and get out and if I have free time, I 00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:19.359 try and... get out in sight see if this time 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:22.480 i had to just do it on foot but get out and walk 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.980 and see see the neighborhood or whatever and 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:28.940 do whatever i can i don't like to really sit 00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:31.279 in the room and watch tv some people do that's 00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:33.920 or be on the internet all day i like to get out 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.380 out of the room and do things and so i still 00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:39.819 do that it's just not quite as much fun with 00:27:39.819 --> 00:27:43.519 without the bike the band has been together for 00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:49.839 so long most bands change members or maybe someone 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.400 doesn't take care of themselves and something 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.759 happens to them or they can't stay or they unfortunately 00:27:55.759 --> 00:28:00.319 pass on there's been such a longevity to this 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:04.539 group that is out of y 'all's control for one 00:28:04.539 --> 00:28:08.180 i think just everybody's still with you and able 00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:11.279 to do it but what are the things that you guys 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:14.940 think are were within your control that has kept 00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:18.400 a band like that together for so long that's 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.640 i think there's a lot to be said for that that's 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.940 not easy to do yeah it's a good question i think 00:28:25.940 --> 00:28:28.940 there's overall there's a level of professionalism 00:28:28.940 --> 00:28:32.619 amongst us all where we know that we're there 00:28:32.619 --> 00:28:38.500 to do what al needs of us as opposed to inflicting 00:28:38.500 --> 00:28:42.359 our own take on everything We're there to support 00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:46.099 him. And I think the general consensus is that 00:28:46.099 --> 00:28:49.880 amongst all the band members. And so just knowing 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:52.799 what your job is, first of all, is good. Because 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.660 you could have a player who just wants to change 00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:57.799 everything up and do everything his own way or 00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.759 whatever. And that could be uncomfortable for 00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:07.400 Al. And I think having that consistency and that 00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.630 support gives him a nice... foundation that he 00:29:11.630 --> 00:29:15.509 can be very sure of he's got that consistency 00:29:15.509 --> 00:29:20.029 that he can rely on every night and as opposed 00:29:20.029 --> 00:29:22.650 to things that change up all the time and you 00:29:22.650 --> 00:29:25.869 could throw you out of your concentration and 00:29:25.869 --> 00:29:28.710 you forget a lyric or something but i think that's 00:29:28.710 --> 00:29:32.789 the main thing is that we just all agree on that 00:29:32.789 --> 00:29:37.950 yeah that that is so important i i also i wonder 00:29:37.950 --> 00:29:45.809 how much Your input goes into the non -parody 00:29:45.809 --> 00:29:49.569 songs. Do you guys tend to work on your own parts 00:29:49.569 --> 00:29:53.690 in any way, or is that more of a you're playing 00:29:53.690 --> 00:29:57.950 a part that Al has already written? Mostly we 00:29:57.950 --> 00:30:01.109 come up with our own parts, but he'll give us 00:30:01.109 --> 00:30:03.869 examples of the kind of vibe he's looking for. 00:30:03.930 --> 00:30:06.910 He might give us five or ten different song examples 00:30:06.910 --> 00:30:11.849 of the kind of and you can key off of those examples 00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:14.869 sometimes. But then we always have the freedom 00:30:14.869 --> 00:30:19.029 to come up with our own parts, as long as it's 00:30:19.029 --> 00:30:21.009 something that he likes. Every once in a while, 00:30:21.049 --> 00:30:24.630 he'll have an actual melodic line that he wants, 00:30:24.890 --> 00:30:28.049 and I'll figure out a way to do that and make 00:30:28.049 --> 00:30:30.990 it. He could have played it on a toy piano, but 00:30:30.990 --> 00:30:33.190 I'll figure out a way to make it sound right 00:30:33.190 --> 00:30:38.640 on guitar. But we do have some freedom. on coming 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:40.960 up with lines and things like that. So there's 00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:43.839 definitely some contributions there on the non 00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:48.619 -parody songs. And I think those are the best 00:30:48.619 --> 00:30:52.420 songs, in my opinion. And I think the real fans, 00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:55.680 and I don't mean the real fans in terms of trying 00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:58.480 to gatekeep anything, but the fans that listen 00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.960 to more than just the music videos and things 00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:04.119 like that, the fans that dig a little deeper 00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:08.259 end up loving those songs more than... yeah any 00:31:08.259 --> 00:31:11.460 of the parodies for sure i agree yeah and that's 00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:14.019 why the uh why those tours were so successful 00:31:14.019 --> 00:31:16.740 the uh the what they call the vanity tours the 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:20.039 stripped down tours or almost all his originals 00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:22.740 yeah i saw both tours that was they were it was 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:26.079 amazing it was i think it was what the the hardcore 00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.519 fans had wanted for years and years so yeah and 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.160 it was nice that we were doing that what were 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.700 some of your favorite songs to play on a tour 00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:39.190 like that or Just over the years, the non -parody 00:31:39.190 --> 00:31:42.210 songs, what are some of your favorites? Oh, gee. 00:31:42.650 --> 00:31:47.109 I always like rockers. Anything that's just rockin'. 00:31:47.109 --> 00:31:52.509 Gee, so many different ones. There were a couple 00:31:52.509 --> 00:31:56.170 where there were Aerosmith -y sounding tunes. 00:31:56.950 --> 00:32:00.490 But basically anything that really rocks was 00:32:00.490 --> 00:32:05.119 what I would gravitate to. You make me comes 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.680 to mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that was a 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:09.819 good one. Yeah. You make me, that's a great one. 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:12.779 Yeah. Stuck in a closet with Vanna, stuck in 00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:18.640 a closet with Vanna White was always fun. Y 'all 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:21.599 weren't expecting the longevity. And I think 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:24.660 the roles have changed. How have y 'all grown 00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:28.440 into what it's become over the years? Cause I 00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.960 think that's a big part of something that y 'all 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.750 have had control over, over the years. is whenever 00:32:34.750 --> 00:32:38.289 new challenges for the group came, all stepped 00:32:38.289 --> 00:32:41.609 up to them. What were some of the tricks to that 00:32:41.609 --> 00:32:44.269 and some of the ways that you overcame some challenges 00:32:44.269 --> 00:32:48.190 there? Yeah, you know, I've been doing this for 00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:50.450 so long that I never look at anything really 00:32:50.450 --> 00:32:53.450 as a challenge. Obviously, when we're working 00:32:53.450 --> 00:32:56.750 up a new tour, we have a lot of homework to do. 00:32:57.289 --> 00:33:02.700 And sometimes it's a bit of a chore. it's okay 00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:05.619 and i've got to research this tune and then also 00:33:05.619 --> 00:33:08.720 not only learn all the guitar learn the music 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.259 but learn all the good the singing parts too 00:33:11.259 --> 00:33:14.579 so i think for me the biggest challenge is i 00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:16.940 don't really worry about the music too much it 00:33:16.940 --> 00:33:20.559 comes very easily but the singing singing parts 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.700 are what i have to concentrate not only in when 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:25.910 i'm learning the songs but when i'm on stage 00:33:25.910 --> 00:33:28.289 i never really think much about the playing i'm 00:33:28.289 --> 00:33:31.150 always focusing on trying to make sure i'm singing 00:33:31.150 --> 00:33:34.569 in tune and in the right tone and not forgetting 00:33:34.569 --> 00:33:37.470 lines and things like that i really focused on 00:33:37.470 --> 00:33:40.450 the vocals so to me that's the biggest challenge 00:33:40.450 --> 00:33:43.549 was really just singing and on those vanity tours 00:33:43.549 --> 00:33:47.009 i tended i was the one member of the band that 00:33:47.009 --> 00:33:49.549 had to do the most backup singing and a lot of 00:33:49.549 --> 00:33:52.670 the parts were high even above out some nights 00:33:52.670 --> 00:33:56.170 it was quite a challenge but i didn't to keep 00:33:56.170 --> 00:33:59.670 being able to sing those parts with that intensity 00:33:59.670 --> 00:34:03.049 and, of course, play the guitar behind it. You 00:34:03.049 --> 00:34:04.750 mentioned it briefly earlier, but I'd really 00:34:04.750 --> 00:34:07.829 like to talk about your composition work for 00:34:07.829 --> 00:34:10.389 film and television and how you got into that 00:34:10.389 --> 00:34:13.670 and just some of the things that you've done 00:34:13.670 --> 00:34:17.210 over the years on that side of your career. Yeah, 00:34:17.250 --> 00:34:20.869 I'm not doing as much of that anymore. I went 00:34:20.869 --> 00:34:24.460 through a period of... probably in the late 80s. 00:34:24.460 --> 00:34:26.900 I've always written music and I've always written, 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.500 you know, instrumental music. And at a certain 00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:31.460 point, probably in the late 80s, I was thinking 00:34:31.460 --> 00:34:34.880 I'd really maybe like to get into film scoring 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.840 because I always listened to the music in films 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.980 and TV shows and stuff. And sometimes I would 00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:42.760 play along with the score, a guitar, just like 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:46.039 jam along with what the composer had written. 00:34:46.460 --> 00:34:50.570 And in the early 90s, I... I had a friend who 00:34:50.570 --> 00:34:52.449 worked at a post -production facility where they 00:34:52.449 --> 00:34:54.730 do audio post -production, and he told me about 00:34:54.730 --> 00:34:58.909 this possible gig that was coming up that I had 00:34:58.909 --> 00:35:01.050 a chance to submit a demo for, and it was for 00:35:01.050 --> 00:35:05.929 20th Century Fox. And what had happened was they 00:35:05.929 --> 00:35:08.969 had licensed a bunch of classic movies from their 00:35:08.969 --> 00:35:12.789 catalog to China, but they were going to have 00:35:12.789 --> 00:35:15.349 to be dubbed into different languages, dubbed 00:35:15.349 --> 00:35:18.409 into Chinese. but unfortunately they were missing 00:35:18.409 --> 00:35:20.309 most of the movies were missing the individual 00:35:20.309 --> 00:35:22.789 music tracks and the individual sound effects 00:35:22.789 --> 00:35:27.130 tracks so whenever somebody spoke the music and 00:35:27.130 --> 00:35:28.969 the sound effects would have to be recreated 00:35:28.969 --> 00:35:32.130 i had a chance to submit a demo and it was a 00:35:32.130 --> 00:35:35.849 like a war movie with a bunch of explosions going 00:35:35.849 --> 00:35:39.389 on and a couple other people did demos but they 00:35:39.389 --> 00:35:42.340 just did their own thing wrote their own stuff 00:35:42.340 --> 00:35:44.639 but i decided i was going to copy the original 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:48.280 score note for note part by part all by hand 00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:54.519 and using sampler keyboards and um and they chose 00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:58.239 me because it crossfaded it flowed really naturally 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:02.079 it just sounded you really couldn't tell so it 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:05.380 was a long project of about over about a year 00:36:05.380 --> 00:36:09.679 and a half i think 13 films and anywhere from 00:36:10.230 --> 00:36:12.889 10 minutes to 40 minutes of music per film. It 00:36:12.889 --> 00:36:15.449 was a great education. It was like going to film 00:36:15.449 --> 00:36:18.110 music school because I was studying all the scores 00:36:18.110 --> 00:36:23.909 from these famous composers. And that led to 00:36:23.909 --> 00:36:28.829 doing a few features for an Asian company, sort 00:36:28.829 --> 00:36:33.110 of action -adventure features. I did music for 00:36:33.110 --> 00:36:36.469 Honda commercials, and then I did some stuff 00:36:36.469 --> 00:36:40.019 for the Disney Channel. I did shows. A lot of 00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:42.900 animated Saturday morning animation shows, Iron 00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:46.659 Man and My Little Pony. My Little Pony was the 00:36:46.659 --> 00:36:53.179 last one I ever did. I somehow got into animation. 00:36:53.179 --> 00:36:59.159 It was just where the work was. It was fun and 00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:01.679 I made good money doing it. It's very intense 00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.099 because the music is changing every few seconds. 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.840 After a while of doing that, a number of years, 00:37:07.900 --> 00:37:10.889 I... put it in my head that I was going to wean 00:37:10.889 --> 00:37:13.750 myself off of the composing thing and focus more 00:37:13.750 --> 00:37:17.369 on my original music and my own career. And that's 00:37:17.369 --> 00:37:19.889 exactly what I did. So starting around early 00:37:19.889 --> 00:37:23.630 2000s, I started doing less of that and then 00:37:23.630 --> 00:37:28.530 focusing more on my stuff. And now I, yeah, yeah. 00:37:28.710 --> 00:37:32.289 And so now that's, that's what I do. Every so 00:37:32.289 --> 00:37:35.250 often something will come up or I'll be asked 00:37:35.250 --> 00:37:39.579 to write something, looking for that kind of 00:37:39.579 --> 00:37:42.039 work anymore but it was fun i enjoyed doing it 00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:45.199 and it was a good living and i learned a lot 00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:48.000 but just better right now to focus on my own 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.300 stuff that first project sounds particularly 00:37:50.300 --> 00:37:53.980 both catered to you and also probably something 00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:57.900 that that helped with your skills over the years 00:37:57.900 --> 00:38:01.920 recreating other sounds for me especially as 00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:07.139 music yeah from just be guitar but programming 00:38:08.110 --> 00:38:11.269 things like white nerdy and things like that 00:38:11.269 --> 00:38:14.909 and white nerdy is actually a good example of 00:38:14.909 --> 00:38:21.070 some al's music being a big part of quote -unquote 00:38:21.070 --> 00:38:26.070 nerd culture if you will and nerd culture it's 00:38:26.070 --> 00:38:29.670 one like at this point like all the biggest movies 00:38:29.670 --> 00:38:34.050 comic book movies and star wars and yeah But 00:38:34.050 --> 00:38:36.909 how much of that did you relate to over the years? 00:38:36.949 --> 00:38:41.190 Was that something that you directly related 00:38:41.190 --> 00:38:45.750 to as Al was writing these songs? Not really. 00:38:45.849 --> 00:38:51.590 I totally was aware of the culture and obviously 00:38:51.590 --> 00:38:55.869 what his fan base was like. It didn't really 00:38:55.869 --> 00:38:57.949 concern me. I was really just more focused on 00:38:57.949 --> 00:39:01.869 the job of... getting the guitar parts right 00:39:01.869 --> 00:39:04.750 and the keyboard parts right. And it was really 00:39:04.750 --> 00:39:08.789 more about that, more about just the actual mechanics 00:39:08.789 --> 00:39:12.050 of making the records and playing the parts live 00:39:12.050 --> 00:39:15.409 and all that stuff. I will say that is a little 00:39:15.409 --> 00:39:19.849 bit nerdy, Jim. Yeah, you can definitely nerd 00:39:19.849 --> 00:39:23.269 out on trying to recreate stuff, that's for sure. 00:39:23.989 --> 00:39:28.730 And over the years, Al, early on, he was... Not 00:39:28.730 --> 00:39:31.710 as concerned with the tracks being exactly like 00:39:31.710 --> 00:39:35.730 the record, but as the years went on, he became 00:39:35.730 --> 00:39:41.130 more into having everything be as close as possible. 00:39:41.469 --> 00:39:43.710 Basically, the concept is when it comes on the 00:39:43.710 --> 00:39:46.429 radio, you think it's the other song, and then 00:39:46.429 --> 00:39:48.869 you go, wait a minute, that's not the right words. 00:39:49.269 --> 00:39:51.530 For me, it's the opposite. I'm just constantly 00:39:51.530 --> 00:39:54.309 disappointed that it's not the Weird Al version 00:39:54.309 --> 00:39:58.489 whenever I'm hearing songs. Right. What are some 00:39:58.489 --> 00:40:01.210 of the things that you've really enjoyed over 00:40:01.210 --> 00:40:04.010 the last 20 years with your slack key guitar 00:40:04.010 --> 00:40:08.590 and getting into playing more solo shows? I know 00:40:08.590 --> 00:40:10.869 at first that was something that was a little 00:40:10.869 --> 00:40:15.150 bit intimidating for you, but now you've been 00:40:15.150 --> 00:40:20.090 nominated for several Grammys and won in, was 00:40:20.090 --> 00:40:24.190 it 2021 or 2020 for more guitar stories? Yeah, 00:40:24.309 --> 00:40:29.460 21. Yeah, 2021. I'm assuming you have gained 00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:32.820 quite a bit of confidence there, too. What are 00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:35.920 some of the highlights for you over the years 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:40.980 on that front? Well, playing at the festivals, 00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:44.340 the Slack Key festivals, like you said, when 00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:48.320 I first started playing Slack Key shows, it was 00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:50.099 when my first album came out, all of a sudden 00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:52.179 I had to do shows. And I was playing in Hawaii 00:40:52.179 --> 00:40:56.929 at things like Borders and Barnes & Noble. But 00:40:56.929 --> 00:40:58.849 then I had to play the Maui Slacky Festival, 00:40:58.929 --> 00:41:01.710 and there were 1 ,500 people out there. But at 00:41:01.710 --> 00:41:05.369 those first shows, I wasn't really used. I was 00:41:05.369 --> 00:41:07.469 used to playing in bands where there's a singer 00:41:07.469 --> 00:41:10.630 that's getting most of the focus. And when I 00:41:10.630 --> 00:41:13.710 started playing solo Slacky shows, it was nerve 00:41:13.710 --> 00:41:16.409 -wracking, the first couple, because I'm the 00:41:16.409 --> 00:41:18.570 only one, and everybody's watching and listening 00:41:18.570 --> 00:41:23.429 to me. So it was very, I sweated a lot on those 00:41:23.429 --> 00:41:25.710 first couple of shows. But I got used to it, 00:41:25.730 --> 00:41:30.090 and then. Playing the festivals, those kind of 00:41:30.090 --> 00:41:32.349 big festivals have always been a highlight. I've 00:41:32.349 --> 00:41:34.210 also done a tour called International Guitar 00:41:34.210 --> 00:41:38.210 Night two or three times and touring around with 00:41:38.210 --> 00:41:39.849 three other guitarists from different parts of 00:41:39.849 --> 00:41:43.989 the world and a very musical show. Any of those 00:41:43.989 --> 00:41:46.190 kind of concert experiences now, they're all 00:41:46.190 --> 00:41:53.070 fun. I do wonder what it was like returning to 00:41:53.070 --> 00:41:56.579 Maui. to play that that slack key festival after 00:41:56.579 --> 00:42:00.360 it was you're playing their music back for them 00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.260 essentially what was that like well you know 00:42:04.260 --> 00:42:06.980 i had been living out in hana which is one of 00:42:06.980 --> 00:42:10.360 the most hawaiian places uh in hawaii and i had 00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:13.800 a lot of friends and i i felt pretty um comfortable 00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:16.440 in the culture there you know uh and accepted 00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:18.820 and the beautiful thing about you know when i 00:42:18.820 --> 00:42:21.940 played my first slack key festival um instead 00:42:21.940 --> 00:42:24.769 of i was i think i may have been the only holly 00:42:24.769 --> 00:42:28.409 white guy and the festival but instead of having 00:42:28.409 --> 00:42:30.250 any kind of blowback from the other musicians 00:42:30.250 --> 00:42:32.289 they were completely the opposite they were like 00:42:32.289 --> 00:42:36.190 hey brah thanks for mahalo for helping to keep 00:42:36.190 --> 00:42:39.429 this this art form going when they were ever 00:42:39.429 --> 00:42:43.289 ever nothing but support as opposed to hey what 00:42:43.289 --> 00:42:45.449 are you doing playing our music no it was completely 00:42:45.449 --> 00:42:49.369 the opposite it was not nothing but respect and 00:42:49.369 --> 00:42:52.760 support and it always has been That's amazing. 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:58.199 Yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah. So every so often 00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:03.300 you'd hear somebody who was thinking it was some 00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:05.360 kind of cultural appropriation, but it was never 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.099 from Hawaiian. It would always be from some other 00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:10.440 white person. I've noticed that happens a lot. 00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:14.460 There's a lot of that going on. Because the Hawaiians 00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:18.969 are, by nature, a welcoming people. In fact, 00:43:19.070 --> 00:43:22.750 they don't have any word for foreigner. The word 00:43:22.750 --> 00:43:27.809 they use is malahini, which means guest. There's 00:43:27.809 --> 00:43:31.110 no word with bad connotation for somebody from 00:43:31.110 --> 00:43:36.710 somewhere else. You're a guest. So it's just 00:43:36.710 --> 00:43:40.269 part of the aloha spirit and Hawaiian nature 00:43:40.269 --> 00:43:43.769 to be welcoming. So I have always felt welcome. 00:43:44.489 --> 00:43:49.469 I think it's interesting how... how much a language 00:43:49.469 --> 00:43:54.230 like linguistically that can like sometimes point 00:43:54.230 --> 00:43:58.150 out traits about a culture that's that's really 00:43:58.150 --> 00:44:03.690 yeah that's yeah that's amazing what do you what 00:44:03.690 --> 00:44:05.909 did you fall in love with hawaii i'm guessing 00:44:05.909 --> 00:44:08.630 that's one of the reasons but what are some of 00:44:08.630 --> 00:44:10.409 the things that made you fall in love with hawaii 00:44:10.409 --> 00:44:13.469 in the first place other than it just being such 00:44:13.469 --> 00:44:18.119 well i when i went over there i I did actually 00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:21.500 fall in love with a woman. So that helped. But 00:44:21.500 --> 00:44:24.599 she was somebody who had a long history with 00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:28.159 Hawaii. So as opposed to just if I was a tourist 00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:32.760 visiting, I was immediately going to local luaus 00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:37.360 and parties. And I was thrown into the deep end 00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:40.880 of Hawaiian culture. So I was very lucky in that 00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:45.389 respect. So to this day. I'm still friends with 00:44:45.389 --> 00:44:48.429 a lot of those families and it's just a long 00:44:48.429 --> 00:44:51.210 relationship. And of course, Hawaii is, especially 00:44:51.210 --> 00:44:53.889 out there where I was staying in Hana, it's very, 00:44:53.989 --> 00:44:56.730 the coastline probably looks the same as it did 00:44:56.730 --> 00:45:02.230 in the 1600s. It's wild, dramatic lava rock cliffs, 00:45:02.489 --> 00:45:07.030 big waves, waterfalls, a lot of rain in that 00:45:07.030 --> 00:45:10.510 area. So you get a lot of waterfalls, you get 00:45:10.510 --> 00:45:15.760 a lot of lush jungle. It's just really an amazing, 00:45:16.019 --> 00:45:19.139 physically an amazing place. But the culture 00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:22.679 and the people, no snakes, no. And the culture, 00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:26.380 the people, that's the thing. I just fell in 00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:30.199 love with the culture. Hawaiians are so giving 00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:36.500 and respectful and, in general, just nice people. 00:45:36.820 --> 00:45:39.340 It's just, it felt very at home to be there. 00:45:39.460 --> 00:45:42.599 It felt really nice. You talked a little bit. 00:45:42.989 --> 00:45:46.210 About your hobbies and things that you do to 00:45:46.210 --> 00:45:49.090 keep busy on the road. But when you're home, 00:45:49.210 --> 00:45:51.789 what do you like to do for fun? I suspect get 00:45:51.789 --> 00:45:54.090 out in nature still quite a bit is something 00:45:54.090 --> 00:45:57.809 that you enjoy. Yeah, occasionally. Sometimes 00:45:57.809 --> 00:46:01.650 take a drive out to Joshua Tree National Park. 00:46:02.150 --> 00:46:04.530 There's some local hiking trails I sometimes 00:46:04.530 --> 00:46:08.590 will drive to. There's nothing really cool that 00:46:08.590 --> 00:46:11.599 I can walk to. Sometimes I'll just do things 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:14.440 like that for exercise. It's a little tougher 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.380 here because I'm in the city. But when you're 00:46:17.380 --> 00:46:20.340 in Hawaii, there's a lot more outdoor things 00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:24.440 you can do and a lot more options. But yeah, 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:26.340 I still get out and do things like that. And 00:46:26.340 --> 00:46:30.059 I like to travel. So traveling is a cool thing. 00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:32.579 I was down in the Cook Islands last September, 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.079 which is down near Tahiti, South Pacific. So 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.750 I like traveling. Stuff like that, and of course, 00:46:39.750 --> 00:46:41.769 just playing around on my guitar and playing 00:46:41.769 --> 00:46:44.909 in my studio. That's a pretty major part of it. 00:46:45.289 --> 00:46:49.070 For sure. What are some of the things that you've 00:46:49.070 --> 00:46:53.389 got going on right now, career -wise, that you'd 00:46:53.389 --> 00:46:56.010 like to share with people? I was involved in 00:46:56.010 --> 00:47:00.050 three or four different projects this year that 00:47:00.050 --> 00:47:02.469 have been submitted to the Grammys. I guess the 00:47:02.469 --> 00:47:06.110 nominations come out in a couple weeks, but one 00:47:06.110 --> 00:47:10.260 of them was a project, an Indian project that 00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:12.559 I played on. And I went to India for that. And 00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:15.440 I recorded my parts here, but I went to India 00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:20.039 because we were filming music videos. And that 00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:23.519 was, there were three other projects that I was 00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:26.440 involved in as well. But the one in India was 00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:29.159 quite dramatic. It's called Sounds of Kumba. 00:47:29.260 --> 00:47:34.219 And what it is, it's a tribute to the a thing 00:47:34.219 --> 00:47:36.260 they called the Mahakum, which was happening 00:47:36.260 --> 00:47:38.559 in February. That's when I went over. And it's 00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:42.079 the largest human gathering in human history. 00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:46.539 It's like a spiritual pilgrimage. And it's an 00:47:46.539 --> 00:47:49.519 area of northern India. And every day, there'd 00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:54.159 be 10 to 20 million people every day. And over 00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:58.079 a 40 -day period, there were 550 million people 00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:01.599 that attended it. A little bit bigger than Coachella. 00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:06.719 But it's a spiritual pilgrimage where the poorest 00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:08.340 of the poor, the richest of the rich, everybody 00:48:08.340 --> 00:48:11.199 comes. It's loud and chaotic, but it's peaceful. 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.260 It's nonviolent. So we were there filming because 00:48:14.260 --> 00:48:19.619 the album is a dedication to this event. So we 00:48:19.619 --> 00:48:21.619 were filming a lot of music videos there, and 00:48:21.619 --> 00:48:26.940 it was quite spectacular. And they created 12 00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:30.280 music videos, one video for every song. You can 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:33.000 find it on YouTube. It sounds... of Kumba, K 00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:35.519 -U -M -B -H -A. There'll be a link in the description 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:38.039 of the episode. I'll make sure to link it. Okay. 00:48:38.659 --> 00:48:42.820 Yeah, it's very amazing and very high -quality 00:48:42.820 --> 00:48:46.820 videos. They look like National Geographic specials 00:48:46.820 --> 00:48:48.440 or something. They're incredible. Yeah, they 00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:51.699 really are. But anyway, that was the project 00:48:51.699 --> 00:48:55.440 that I was most excited about. What was that 00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:00.199 experience like, traveling to India? I'd never 00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:04.489 been before. It was like nothing I've ever seen. 00:49:04.550 --> 00:49:07.230 I've never seen so many people. And it's, like 00:49:07.230 --> 00:49:09.769 I say, loud and chaotic, but beautiful at the 00:49:09.769 --> 00:49:14.889 same time. It was really unforgettable. I really 00:49:14.889 --> 00:49:16.869 appreciate you being here, Jim. Congratulations 00:49:16.869 --> 00:49:20.690 on all the success and everything. Oh, I appreciate 00:49:20.690 --> 00:49:25.630 it. Thank you. Where do you see... This has been 00:49:25.630 --> 00:49:29.369 going on for so long with Al and everything. 00:49:29.449 --> 00:49:31.880 Where do you see... Do you know what the next 00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:34.239 steps are? Do you know what the next thing in 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:37.179 the works is? Is there anything you can talk 00:49:37.179 --> 00:49:41.099 about yet? Not really. I assume we'll be touring 00:49:41.099 --> 00:49:44.000 some more. This last tour was quite successful. 00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:45.860 So yeah, I'm sure they'll do want to do that 00:49:45.860 --> 00:49:48.420 again, but I'll just keep doing the same thing 00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:51.000 and doing my own projects and working on more 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.500 music and nothing out of the, nothing out of 00:49:54.500 --> 00:49:56.539 the ordinary, all the same kind of stuff, but 00:49:56.539 --> 00:50:00.530 it's all good. I've seen 10 of those tours over 00:50:00.530 --> 00:50:03.570 the years. Oh, wow. And the first one, I was 00:50:03.570 --> 00:50:10.750 13, and I'm 39 now. So it's been quite the... 00:50:10.750 --> 00:50:14.130 Honestly, one of the only constants, I think, 00:50:14.130 --> 00:50:17.710 for a lot of people in entertainment and culture. 00:50:17.889 --> 00:50:21.409 So thank you so much for everything, Jim. I really 00:50:21.409 --> 00:50:23.989 appreciate it. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, thanks 00:50:23.989 --> 00:50:26.889 for having me on, man. I really appreciate it. 00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:29.489 I'll do it. We'll do it again sometime. Awesome. 00:50:29.630 --> 00:50:32.969 Awesome. Well, that was my interview with Jim 00:50:32.969 --> 00:50:37.030 Kimo West. Check out all of the projects he's 00:50:37.030 --> 00:50:40.889 got. There's still a few of his USB drives with 00:50:40.889 --> 00:50:43.829 all 12 of his solo records available on his website. 00:50:44.150 --> 00:50:46.829 There's links in the description. It's been a 00:50:46.829 --> 00:50:49.449 great year. I'll probably do a little year in 00:50:49.449 --> 00:50:51.730 review here before the year wraps up, but this 00:50:51.730 --> 00:50:54.190 is my last interview of the year. Thank you all 00:50:54.190 --> 00:50:57.050 so much for tuning in. Uh, next year we'll be 00:50:57.050 --> 00:51:01.949 back with a whole lot more. So, uh, stay tuned. 00:51:02.090 --> 00:51:04.230 I'm going to do some, uh, some edits over the 00:51:04.230 --> 00:51:07.429 holidays, put some compilations of, of some of 00:51:07.429 --> 00:51:10.389 the things I've already done together. Um, but 00:51:10.389 --> 00:51:13.469 there won't be any new interviews until January 00:51:13.469 --> 00:51:17.690 7th with Tommy Simbazo, good comedian friend 00:51:17.690 --> 00:51:19.889 of mine and our first episode that we actually 00:51:19.889 --> 00:51:22.570 recorded in virtual reality. So I hope you, uh, 00:51:22.710 --> 00:51:25.159 hope you stay tuned for that. Hope you all have 00:51:25.159 --> 00:51:27.780 a wonderful holiday. Happy Festivus, everybody.