Welcome to over educating under employed I Am
really excited to bring you this episode this
week. We've got Sam Lipkin from flagpole magazine
and volumes hip -hop and We had a really great
conversation She has a really cool story. I can't
wait for you to hear it I hope everybody has
a wonderful Thanksgiving is spending time with
people that mean something to them I'm really
thankful for a lot this year. And I really just
want here to thank everybody that's been a part
of this podcast this year. I have gotten to talk
to some people that I never would have imagined.
And I've gotten some amazing stories and I'm
really thankful that I've been able to share
those with y 'all. We got a lot more coming.
Next week we've got John Neff from Japan cakes
and of course the drive -by truckers and Then
in two weeks, we've got Jim chemo West who was
just nominated for more Grammy Awards. He's Got
a Grammy already For his slack key guitar work,
but as he is most famous for being the guitar
player for weird Al Yankovic for the last 40
years We had a really great conversation His
story is really amazing. Thanks for listening
y 'all. I really appreciate y 'all being a part
of this. Hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
Here's my interview with Sam Lipkin. Travel safe.
I'm here with Sam Lipkin. She is the editing
coordinator at Flagpole magazine as well as a
creator with Volumes Hip Hop. Are you still with
them? Yeah, I own... That's yours. Okay. Awesome.
Okay. So 90 % of volumes is me. Awesome. Awesome.
I have used y 'all as a resource before like
at a fest. Your hip hop calendar was like very
useful. But I didn't realize like how closely
tied to that, which is why I have you here to
find out all the things that you do. And I'm
going to start with the first question I ask
everybody, which is what's the first song that
you remember loving as a kid? Interesting. The
first song I remember loving, I would definitely
say it would have to have been a Pink Floyd song.
Yeah. So I actually very young. I had as a toddler,
I was at my aunt and uncle's house and accidentally
came in while they were watching the wall. Oh,
wow. And I was like. fascinated. I was enthralled
by this. And then I would beg to watch whatever
that movie was. And I just had a really, obviously
inappropriate for such a young child, but whatever
it was about it. Kind of a unique way. Yeah,
you know what I mean? Like, it's just like really
heavy and intense. It's not like it's inappropriate
in the way that like the South Park movie is
or something like that. Most of what is inappropriate
is going to go over your head. Yeah. But because
of that, I feel like it probably was the wall
part two or something like that was probably
my first favorite song just because it played
on the radio all the time. And I definitely had
a paint Floyd connection. What's so interesting
is I wouldn't say it's universal, but it's super
common for that memory. to be tied to a movie
for people. That is interesting. Yeah. Like Mary
was talking about the Big Chill soundtrack. I
don't think she's, she wasn't the movie, but
the soundtrack was something that J. Roddy Walston
was on here and he told me that it was Twist
and Shout watching Ferris Bueller. Okay. So it's
just, it's really interesting how that seems
to be a very common thing. Yeah, so tied to the
visual. It's got to be something with just how
young we are and how memories form. Yeah, but
I do like think of movies a lot when I hear certain
songs, right? There's certain songs that get
like very tied to scenes. I think like Twist
and Shout's a great example of that. And then
Pink Floyd's like a whole other level. That's
it. Because they're like intentionally making
this visual experience. One of my favorite soundtracks
when I was a kid was the Armageddon soundtrack.
And my parents had that CD and we would listen
to it all the time in the car. And I still just
think of that as a great example of great movie,
amazing soundtrack. So where did it go from there?
What did you grow up listening to? A lot of classic
rock for sure. I would say up till middle school.
Very into classic rock. A lot of times through
video games I found like Nine Inch Nails and
Ozzy and it was so funny because when I would
and Rob Zombie and Eight years old telling my
dad like oh this song and my game is so cool
And my dad would be like I guess it's time. Here's
my CD So my parents weren't really too concerned
with what I was listening to and things like
that. So a lot of that and then, and you grew
up in the age of like parental advisory stickers
and all that. So they probably knew when you
were listening to stuff that yeah, I will say
in sixth grade is when I started riding the bus.
So I would get up early in the morning and watch
all the MTV music videos. And that was my first
exposure to things other than what my parents
listened to. And my dad got upset with my grandmother
because I got my grandmother to take me to music
store, Sam Goodies, actually. I worked at a Sam
Goodies for several years. Yeah. My grandmother
took me to the Sam Goodies and I bought the first
Gorillaz CD and it had a parental advisory sticker
on it. And I got it home. And just because my
dad had no idea what it was, he was like, upset
with her. Do you know what this means? And he's
like, what are you listening to? Was that kind
of like was that one of your first like forays
into hip -hop cuz then the automators all over
that and yes I think like girl like early grill
is especially like very Yeah, yeah Yeah, it really
is. I would say that was my first exposure to
There's all these things on the radio and nothing
really clicked with me and I was really into
gorillas. I still am. Yeah. Yeah, and that was
definitely my First exposure to some of the more
lyrical hip -hop. Yeah, but I I grew up in North,
Georgia Extremely predominantly white very conservative.
I just didn't have a lot of exposure like a smaller
town very small town I didn't have exposure to
hip -hop that wasn't just what was on the radio.
Yeah Me neither. No, I got really known the more
underground stuff in the early 2000s and mid
-2000s A lot of that stuff was like even side
projects of people that were affiliated like
working with the gorillas and stuff like that
like Tron 30 30 comes to mind or Like black star
like most definitely which was like mainstream,
but even that record was not I also can really
relate to the video game thing I actually had
an early episode of this episode where this podcast
where I just rambled about video games and music
for 20 minutes because I really think and maybe
ties back to the thing with movies too is like
there's something about music being tied to an
experience and when you're watching a movie that's
an experience but when you're playing a game
like that's like very interactive and very I
never got into club music really but then I started
playing like Beat Saber and now I'm like into
some of that stuff because of the experience
I had listening to it like What are some of the
examples of like video game music that you were
getting into as a kid or that really? Called
to you because I think that's such an interesting
kind of Yeah, and it's the ones I already named
a little like there. My dad had this PlayStation
1 game called sled storm. Okay, and That's where
I first heard Rob zombies Dracula and I yeah
I found in the settings where you could pick
the songs that were playing and I would just
play that over and over again playing Midnight
clubs three on the ps2 was where I heard The
hand that feeds by nine -inch nails. Yeah. Yeah,
so that got me really in the nine -inch nails
That net record was like they're they're like
big comeback after a while like I thought Was
that with teeth? Yes. Yeah, and yeah that record
Was is one of my favorite nine -inch nails Good
a good entry point to nine -inch nails for people
like that are a little younger for sure because
I get the impression I think we're about the
same age. I'm 39. I think you're probably Yeah,
I was like I think you're younger than me, but
a lot of the people I've interviewed are older
than me It's interesting and I think like an
older millennial like me relates to both like
Gen X in some aspects and then also like solidly
millennial people like yourself Because I still
remember a time without the internet, but I also
had it young enough to where it was never like
This is foreign to me and video games I think
is something like that's the dividing thing where
like a lot of people that are older than me They
might have played games or whatever, but it's
oh, yeah, I really liked Pac -Man or Yeah, or
it's one or two games And they didn't really
carry over into it. I'm like Millennials like
we stay gamers I just happen to grow up in a
gamer household parents are very young and Both
of my parents play video games. Yeah, and so
it wasn't a It wasn't like video games are bad
for you or why are you playing? There's a communal
thing in my house and I also played a lot of
Strategy and RPG games that were my parents saw
as a little bit more Good for your brain. Yeah
using your brain in logical ways. You're coming
up with strategy You're having to think through
things. I wasn't into the shooters and not me
either really I was really into like games like
civilization was a big one for me and the music
that's that game Introduces you into a lot of
like really amazing like world -class classical
music and things like that too. Yeah, and Think
Rob Zombie's Dragula for me. I heard that with
in the Matrix soundtrack, but similar like just
like it was tied to This thing that was bigger
than just the song. Yeah. So at what point did
you Are you a music do you play music at all?
No me neither I've tried. Yeah, I'm a comedian
and historian philosopher, but I sing in a choir,
that's about it, like community choir. I think
that all comedians are usually like failed rock
stars. That's so funny. And then also a lot of
rock stars want to be comedians. Comedians, yeah.
It's like the grass is always, we're all miserable
and the grass is always greener. It's a creative
outlet and it's... Tends to stem from a same
source a lot of I think so too. Yeah Yeah So
you're a writer But are you also would you consider
yourself? Okay. Have you ever done any comedy
or anything you've ever done? I've thought about
it. So I've always been a writer. That's always
been my thing I was like, as soon as I could
form sentences, I would write stories about me
and my cat. And I will talk about that a little
bit. OK. What are some of the earliest things
you remember writing about you and your cat story?
Was it fiction? Typically, it's so I definitely
was probably in first grade writing my own little
mystery stories where me and my cat were solving
mysteries in the neighborhood, because that's
what I was the sidekick. The cat. The cat, okay.
You were the lead character, okay. I was running
things. That's good. I feel like if like in first
grade you're writing and you're not even the
lead character, you're... There's more going
on here. I'm like, I'm a little worried about
you. On the topic of being worried about me,
it was in third grade that I found Ed Grail and
Poe, and that's where I decided that's what I
wanted. That's a terrible time to start reading.
Yeah. That's where I started writing poetry.
I was just fascinated with him. I loved him very
much. I still do. Well, what was it at such a
young age though? I don't think that... I think
there's a million reasons to love a girl. Yeah.
And that's not what I'm at. But what do you think
was appealing to you at such a young age? Because
that's not typical. No. I feel like middle school
is when people get into the... Drama dump. People
get into the goth phase. Middle school. Oh, it's
been, since I came out of the womb, I've been
angsty and bad and all of those things, but I
don't know. My family was very transparent with
a lot of things that happened and there's a lot
of things that I was probably aware of very young.
And I don't know how to say this without tooting
my own horn, but I was a very intellectual child.
And I read a lot. You were reading and writing
a lot. Yeah, I was reading and writing a lot.
I was really into watching documentaries even
at a very young age. Nonfiction, I was super
into it. I loved 10 Burns as a kid too. It was
weird. The baseball documentary series like I
was really into. And the jazz one too. Anyway,
I just had this interest in Don't know. I just
had always had this interest in the unexplained
but also diving deeper into Humanity knowing
quite young that there were a lot of dark things
that happen I think that was always interesting
to me and my parents are both huge horror fans.
I am too a Lifelong horror. Yeah, I always watch
those things. So I think just very young I was
just trying to process I had a lot of emotions
that I didn't know how to communicate. I've always
been a little socially awkward, a little odd.
And growing up, I had a very hard time relating
to others. And so reading and writing made sense
to me. Reading someone's feelings and writing
my own, that made sense to me much more than
being like, weirdly having the verbal words for
it. So Edgar Allan Poe was super appealing at
that time that I don't think that I knew that
Opened that door for me. Have you ever heard
MC Lars rap about Edgar Allan Poe? No, I will
send I'll send to you later. It's fantastic Your
world's colliding right there. Yeah. Yeah, it's
and he's calls it laptop rap. Okay, and I actually
oddly enough because we're in Athens right now.
I saw him open for Cindy Wilson from B -52s one
time. Okay, cool. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, yeah, MC Lars, shout out. He's awesome.
But yeah, I think he's actually working on an
entire album about Edgar Allan Poe now. Oh, he
has one song back in the day, but like something
in the back. Yeah, I think that's right up your
alley. Yeah. And what you're talking about, I
think it goes back to what we were talking about
earlier, where that kind of Think you put it
really well like this kind of struggle to relate
with others. So we Instead of more traditional
forms of communication People write songs people
write stories people write jokes. I realized
that For a long time like that that if I didn't
put like a funny spin on what I was saying it
came across It's just like rude Because I and
then I've heard of urgent and things like that.
So it's like I'm just straightforward and matter
-of -fact about a lot of things. I think that
I do that as well. And then also like having
that outlet though, and I think you maybe you
can talk about this. Having that outlet made
a lot of that other stuff better. So have there
been periods in your life where you stopped writing?
Absolutely. What happens? It's a struggle, yeah.
It's a struggle and it's something that I think
there's a lot of people that come to these creative
outlets to deal with mental health in some way,
whether whatever it is that you deal with that.
It's not always the case, but it has been for
me and I have people close to me that it's the
case for where when your mental health gets better.
That outlet struggles like you don't know you
don't need it or you're just not in that mindset
and that happened for me off and on so it's.
when I'm in a better place, I don't feel that
need to write. And I tend to not think about
it on a personal creative writing level. Yeah.
No, that makes sense to me. I think I experienced
something, it's not the opposite, but it's almost
like the flip side of that, where the more I'm
writing comedy or the more I'm doing these types
of things, the better I'm feeling. Okay, so if
I don't do these things that's when I start to
feel like shit I know a lot of people like that,
too So that's why I'm wondering is like when
you go through these periods where things are
you're feeling better? Maybe you're creative
outlets are struggling does it kind of start
to catch up to you eventually where if you're
not putting some of that angst or whatever into
that I definitely and in some way it almost feels
like there's a piece of you that you've left
behind or you're not nurturing or Writing has
been such a strong part of my identity I think
my whole life and I will say for me I think all
of it's gotten a little better since I have reached
a point in my career where writing is my career
so Again, when I set aside my personal writing
for too long, that doesn't feel good, because
again, it feels like I'm not in touch with a
piece of myself, not taking care of myself, because
that's my outlet, but I'm always writing, which
feels good. So I don't know if that makes sense.
No, that makes a lot of sense, actually. And
it leads really nicely into the next question
I wanted to ask you, which is like, How did you
start to, you're young, you're writing a lot
that deal with your emotions and angst and you
get into Edgar Allen Poe. And at what point did
you decide that you wanted to make writing your
profession? Yeah, I think all through grade school,
trying to decide what to go to college for. It
was a big conflict because that question of if
you could do anything and not worry about money.
What do you want to do? I would love to be a
novelist just right full time, but There's parental
pressures. There's societal pressures like oh
I like food. I like to travel and go to concerts.
So how do I what do I do? and Capitalism is a
bitch. Yeah, and so I struggled my pathway back
I guess I always knew that writing and specifically
journalism was what I was supposed to do. And
I fought it and I took a very circular route
to get back to it. I tried to do other things.
Did you have like backup plans or something like
that or? I don't know. I feel like I always had
these ideas that just, I don't know. I don't
know that I had a concrete backup plan. I had
things that I was okay with doing. Gotcha, and
I just don't know that they ever round it out
and I guess the easiest way to make sense of
it is in high school I was the Co -editor -in
-chief of my school newspaper. Okay. I was really
into journalism Everyone was telling me journalism
was gonna die so going into college I went for
English because I was like there's a lot of things
I could do under that and it's still I'm very
good at this. I'll do English. And in college,
I thought I was gonna get my doctorate and teach
college. So I actually double majored in English
and classical culture. And towards the end of
college, I was almost there and my advisor was
like, it is a long shot that you're ever gonna
be able to make enough money as a college professor
to pay back all these student loans. to get there
in the first place. So I was like, this is what
I was trying to avoid the whole time. So I get
out of college not knowing what I'm going to
do, but knowing that digital marketing is a hot
topic and a lot of people want digital marketers
and they need people that can write. So eventually
I found my way into that position and I worked
for a big company. Doing digital marketing? Doing
digital marketing. And, oh, I wasn't there very
long before. I did extremely well there. I got
a promotion and a year and everything. And I
just, the company was a really bad fit for me.
My mental health suffered a lot. But your writing
was great. Writing never better. Writing never
better. Mental health tanks. And so I just Saved
up enough money to quit and take care of myself
for a little while because it was really bad
Yeah, I was in a really bad place and that you
walked away with a lot of skills from that job
that you Ended up like using in doing things
like volumes hip -hop. Absolutely. Yeah Absolutely.
So it's that's the roundabout pathway to I did
some digital marketing for a while. Yeah, so
I'm yeah, it's hard not Yeah, if you've got those
kind of skill sets everyone's hiring for it and
you can make some decent money. So Yeah, yeah,
I was with a startup for a while as there and
I was an archivist for a marketing firm state
-run marketing firm at one point so I wasn't
really doing the marketing but I was surrounded
by it and absorbed it all and then started working
for a startup and and did digital marketing with
them. And I definitely use a lot of those skills
now in promoting the podcast or the people that
I have on it promoting their stuff when it comes
out. It was definitely an invaluable experience
where those marketing skills are so important.
I have absolutely used them. I guess the reason
I'm mentioning that is because I feel like even
though that it was a bad fit for you, the experience
ended up being something that probably led to
you starting Volumes Hip Hop and things like
that. Volumes actually started before this. Okay,
so give me a little bit about the history of
Volumes Hip Hop then. Yeah, I was gonna say,
I'm sorry, it's hard to keep my paths in line.
That is literally the format of this podcast,
is we like follow a thread for a little while
and then we go back and then we follow it. Maybe
we get a little too far down. Yeah, exactly.
So let's talk about volumes hip -hop and then
maybe that'll fill in the gaps. I think it will
fill in the gaps. So I have always loved music
so much and found a way into my friend circles
being musicians and things like that. When I
just realized you started that in like 2013?
2017. 2017. It was 2017. Okay. Not quite that
long ago. Eight years is still. Oh yeah, at this
point it has been. I went to UGA. I said I went
to college, but I guess I never clarified that
I went to UGA. I graduated in 2015 and yeah,
didn't know what I was doing. That's the point
where I graduated college and I was like, now
what? Having a very hard time getting a job in
any kind of field I thought I fit. So I was just
working. to pay the bills. My best friend is
Trevi of Trevi and the Enemy, a hip hop artist.
So Trevor and I found a group of friends to move
in with and they were, Trevor is a hip hop artist
and we just found this cool collective of hip
hop musicians and fans and engineers and stuff
in the community. So we moved in with them. I
was doing my thing very depressed that I was
not working any kind of job I went to school
for. And I was already going to all the hip hop
shows. We had studios in our house. I already
was getting to know everybody. And one of our
good friends said what the hip hop scene really
needed was its own zine or coverage because Red
and Black, Banner Herald, Flagpole. No one was
really covering the scene. They maybe had some
cherry -picked palatable hip -hop artists Yeah,
I remember that being the kid like I came to
a fest in like 2016 and I remember that being
Okay, like it was yeah, very there was some representation
there, but it wasn't Not nearly as much as there
is now and and it was a lot more difficult than
navigate Especially as somebody who come in from
out of town. Yeah, not knowing the scene like
I have no idea Yeah, it's it and it's complicated
there there's so much with the culture because
hip -hop is a culture and there's so much where
from my perspective a lot of what was happening
was the hip -hop culture in the scene has a distrust
a understandable distrust so They're not necessarily
reaching out to flagpole or whatever so and flagpoles
only covering Them in a way that they feel is
inauthentic to the movement, but flagpole doesn't
know what's actually going on either a little
bit of a How does someone know if you don't tell
them? But if you don't trust them, do you really
trust them with your story? Because then they
might treat it like they're a tourist or not.
Yeah, so it's understandable It's entirely understand.
Yeah. No, I understand what you're saying. Yeah,
but at that point I was like I like to get active.
I like to be involved. Like, you need fans, right,
to make things work and to sell out venues and
stuff like that. But I just wanted to be a little
bit more hands -on, and I was like, a zine is
something I can do. So I was just really burnt
out and distressed from working jobs to pay the
bills that weren't doing anything for my career.
I kept being told by companies, you don't have
any... experience you just have degrees so I
was like I'm just gonna make volumes hip -hop
and start a monthly hip -hop zine covering the
hip -hop scene was it in print it was in print
so the January 2017 was the first zine that was
printed so for a year volumes hip -hop was a
monthly printed zine that I walked around Athens
and put out everywhere with a calendar of events
it had list of a list of people like if you need
a videographer photographers engineers that had
contact information it had stories in it things
like that and I was just getting to know everybody
in the scene and I was at everything that it
naturally progressed into putting together shows
yeah so after the first year volumes the zine
was just honestly too expensive to keep printing
yeah very hard for me to secure advertising or
sponsors or things like that. So it went to being
online only. So for a long time, I still covered
the hip hop scene in a media and a press capacity
online, but I got way more into doing shows.
And so I did shows, I've put together multiple
festivals, and that's really what volumes developed
into. So I was a... Few years into volumes before
I got like that digital marketing job gotcha
and it Helped my resume I was a that was the
point of volumes at first was I wanted to be
involved in the scene with my friends and I wanted
I Didn't have I couldn't get a job to show people
I had the experience to get a better job So I
was like I'm gonna create what I want to do and
show people that I'm able to do it and volumes
Got me the digital marketing job and from all
of that experience Eventually, I that's how I
came to flagpole I already knew who I was because
I had been doing my thing with my zine around
town They were like we already know who you are
and what you're doing and that leads me to this
interesting dynamic that you touched on earlier
where There used to be this distrust between
the hip -hop community and some of the more at
the time me not mainstream in the traditional
sense, but established, the established independent
media in Athens. What were some of the things
that you did to repair that, bridge that gap,
repair that, and did it happen after you came
to Flagpole, or was that something you were actively
doing as part of Volumes Hip Hop? Yeah, I think
it's something I was actively doing as part of
Volumes is... It's hard for me to speak with
full confidence that I know this is exactly what
happened I think introducing all you can do is
give you right from my perspective. Yeah introducing
the Z Introduces a little bit of competition
into the market naturally, of course and I think
that there's just a lot that people didn't know
and my personal mission was Everyone's stories
that I was sharing just proving to them that
they could trust me and through word of mouth
and yeah other people reading what I wrote they
were like I want you to write about me and Things
just changing. I think things changing after
Kind of everything we went through in 2020 and
Black Lives Matter. I think that the local publications
started taking hip -hop culture as something
that needed to be represented and represented
with care and maybe not just how it had been
represented previously. And there's new people
that were put into place. After the pandemic,
Andrew Scheer at Banner Herald became like the
culture editor and writer. And he goes back in
Athens to having hip hop ties. He... Had done
he'd been in punk bands and stuff and he has
hip -hop ties to a lot of the ogs so andrew brought
a lot of that organically to the banner herald
and As soon as I came to flagpole. It was just
like we know you're the hip -hop girl. If there's
anything hip -hop related first of all, you tell
us What is relevant to be covered and if a story
comes through you write it? That's what I was
thinking about too was like Not only was were
you introducing some competition, but you were
introducing a like legitimate source of information
Yeah for the scene that that I think like it
just inherently repaired some of the mistrust
because all of a sudden flagpole Doesn't have
to rely on The community trusting them. They
just have to read your scene Yeah, and then they
have a source of information to be able to cover
that stuff with some credibility, you know, even
if it's just like adding things to their show
calendars. And I think like that just opening
the doors of communication in a very public way.
Yeah. And I have always and still open to meeting
up with people and stuff and just telling them
how to get press and what to do. Because there's
just a lot of people that had no idea. So that's
been along the way. showing people that their
stories can be told in a genuine and safe way,
built trust there to where other people were
interested in having their stories told, but
then people are like, so how do I get in touch
with these? Kind of sparking that interest and
showing that there's value in them reaching out.
Which is so, from the other side, as like someone
in the press, There are so many people reaching
out and there's so much going on all the time.
We don't just know what's happening every year.
Like the number one way for us to know what you're
doing is to tell us. And the reverse of that
is for me, people will be like, how did you get,
how did you get X or Y on your podcast? And I'm
like, I just asked them. The worst they're going
to do is ignore me. That's worse than saying
no, personally. Saying no is fine. But at least
you tried. IndieCon at the beginning of the month
is something that F Factor and Game Gang in town
brought back. They used to do like a indie indie
conference and they just brought it back at the
beginning of this month. And I did a I saw some
stuff about it. Yeah. Yeah. Did a little talk
on how to get press and Honestly, my number one
thing is being easy to work with I actually saw
that and was like I Really wish I could have
been so we should we should talk a little maybe
you need me though though like cliff notes after
this So I in fact, I would say so flagpole magazine
is probably my number one source of FOMO I just
read it from Florida. I'm like All this great
stuff. Yeah. What are some of the things that
you found really challenging about that position
when you first came on board? I felt I think
coming on board, I felt very comfortable. I will
say that I felt very comfortable. It's an extremely
small staff. Yeah. If anything, the most challenging
part was at the point that I came on, everyone
had been there for I think that our front desk
had been there for three or four years. Everyone
else had been there for eight, 10, 15, 20. So
it was a very established staff. So coming in
new, everyone was open to, everyone was open
to hearing like new ideas or everyone else had
been there for so long. But at the same time,
trying to integrate myself into Finding those
lines of bringing a breath of fresh air but not
tipping the boat Yeah, and the things that are
being done because they work and they have reasons
that you might not be aware of There's so many
reasons and you find out why things have been
done a certain way when you try to do it different
Fall on your face. It's That's why. And the readers,
the flagpole has such a long -term readership
with a lot of people that there's things that
of course they want to know what's going on in
town and new things are fun, but then you go
too far from the established paper and people
are going to be upset because it's not what they
used to read or things like that. It's a balance.
Anything that's been established for a long time,
I think, is a balance of keeping it fresh and
new, not upsetting the foundation. Yeah, that
makes a lot of sense. So I want to ask you about
something that you mentioned early on, and that
was when you were in college, so many people
were talking about how journalism was dying.
Yeah. Has it? Were they right? Man, I don't think
so. So I think that I think it's complicated
because of course the reason the recent kind
of Shaking news was that the AJC is not Printing
a physical paper anymore. So you hear that and
it's oh Traditional journalism media, I think
is a different thing than journalism I think
print media is dying and Journalism, I'm not
sure. Yeah. So print media, in some ways, you
see where a lot of people are cutting that, because
it's just not making sense for the budget. And
you could say that. But we distribute papers.
Yeah. Like a flagpole? No, I've got copies of
flagpole in my room. Yeah. People want the physicals.
People pick them up. I meant to ask you to bring
a couple of the latest ones to show, but it's
fine. Oh, yeah, I should have. I'll put pictures
of them on the video. Yeah, yeah. People call
and come pick up papers. We have papers that
we distribute that we'd like people that are
on our list where we send them out all over the
country. People that are still want to know about
home. I know you said you look from Florida,
you look at what's going on and have FOMO. So
that could be your new tagline, by the way. That's
serving FOMO nationwide. I love that. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. Rumpus will be the biggest FOMO for
a little while. I didn't miss out on that. You
came to that one. So that that's where I think
that print media is complicated. And that's if
I was anywhere but flagpole, I might be able
to say differently. Journalism in general, though.
Oh, also feels complicated because there's always
a need to know what's going on. Well, and then
like the truth, too. Right. Yeah. In this age
of misinformation. Yes. Do you think that print
media can like help set apart certain? I don't
know. I don't want authority. Maybe like things
that have print that are printed, maybe have
some somewhat more. Maybe not like actual but
just perceived authority things that are printed
Can't be edited and changed so I think that's
what makes it interesting because Everything
online can be adapted. Yeah, it can be altered.
It can be updated redacted whatever on one hand
the Updating is nice because you would like to
assume that you're getting the most up -to -date
recent information that you're on top of the
news, but things can be removed. You can read
something and go back later and it's not the
same story. And as a historian, like one of our
primary sources is not what people are saying
about it in an updated format, but the newspaper
said about it that day. Yes, I think that is
very important. For archival reasons and just
being able to go back and yeah follow the story
and how people were reacting because that tells
us a lot culturally. And obviously we're in a
lot of cultural upheaval. And the fact that there's
not really a line to follow there's. Don't know
it's very complicated. I don't know if what I'm
trying to say. No, I think the first thing fascism
kills is the truth. Yeah Yeah, absolutely and
that there's just Media so it's just hard to
find It's just hard to find The straight facts
in a lot of ways. Yeah, I know that there are
it's subscription based, but there are some news
filtering applications and things that you can
put in your browser that when you're looking
at stories and Googling things that it will actually
break down for you. Grounded is a really good
source for that. That's one of them. They break
down what publications are covering certain stories.
who's covering it more or like Republican versus
Democrat and how it's being covered exactly and
I yeah it's hard to tell people to go spend money
on that when people are struggling to buy groceries
right now but we're getting into I don't know
we're getting into a point when it comes to news
and media that I don't know what to believe without
tools like that. What are some of the things
that because Flagpole doesn't just cover art
and culture. So what are some of the ways that
you work to maintain your own journalistic integrity?
And I will say the news side is something that
I personally am not. You don't really mess with
that. I don't really mess with too much. It's
a conversation. It has to be a conversation.
And sometimes it's a conversation with the entire
staff. what we're covering, how we're covering
it, and trying to make sure that it's the facts.
And we are a small team. And it's also not a
secret that Flagpole, we are independent. We're
one of the very few independent alt -weeklies
left in the nation. We own ourselves. We can
do whatever we want, which I love. I appreciate
that. But we're also liberal leaning. So sometimes
you can read that slant in things, but I think
that, I think we do strive to put out the facts,
not jump on things based on hearsay, things like
that. The best thing you can do is always refer
to sources. And I know our news editor, Blake,
does a good job of identifying where all the
information comes from. So you can go back and
do your own research. Because I always encourage
everyone Go do your own research too. The problem
is we didn't teach a lot of these people how
to do research. That's the problem that we're
running into now, I think. So where do you see
all of this going for you personally? Do you
have goals or do you just do what you have the
tools for in front of you at the moment? Because
I don't really unnecessarily operate with goals.
here's what I got, I'm gonna do something with
it. Yeah, that has changed entirely for me. So
I'm a very anxious person and I'm a planner.
Everything in my life, I'm very, I like plans,
I like routines, things like that. Those are
like coping, those are very strong coping skills
for you. Absolutely. And growing up, everything
especially with my parents, everything was goals.
And growing up, going through college, everything
was, here's my plan, here's my goals. Getting
out of college was like, here's my plans, here's
my goals. And obviously through my story, it
just never really panned out the way that I planned.
And I was a very strong goal setter. And I think...
Honestly that period that I talked about where
I quit my digital marketing job and was struggling
a lot mentally It was at that point that I realized
for me personally Focusing too much on the future.
I was not taking care of myself in the present
and it was almost excusing my anxiety by being
like We don't have to worry about the steps we're
taking if we don't have a goal in the first place
and what we're trying to get there. And I started
looking at it differently. And right now, currently,
I think having that experience and how wild the
news is every day and the current situation,
I don't know how to set goals for myself anymore.
I don't know what's going to happen. Like you
said, that making the best of the present with
the tools I have available and just knowing that
if I'm making the best of every day, I gotta
be on the right path. I think that's, yeah. That's
what it is for me. The cure to FOMO is YOLO.
Yeah, that's fair. And it's hard for me. I'm
a big FOMO person. FOMO hits me hard. YOLO is
hard sometimes to live by. But yeah, I think
that's the place I'm at. Yeah, Sam. Thank you
so much for being here Is there anything that
that we didn't talk about that you feel like
you you want to you? Want to make sure that we
know about yeah This has been a really great
conversation. Yeah, I think that we've really
covered things I will clarify that I've been
the editorial coordinator at flagpole for a little
over four years now. And since January, I'm actually
the music editor as well. Oh, okay. Cool. Can
we talk a little bit about how your role changed
and your duties expanded when that happened this
year? Yeah, sure. So when I came into Flagpole,
the editorial team had changed because of COVID,
where really through COVID it was Blake Odd holding
down news and it was Jessica Smith holding down
arts and culture and music. And so I came in
as the editorial coordinator is like a bridge
between the two to help take on a lot of the
planning, special projects like the guide to
Athens, coming in as an extra set of editor eyes,
helping put the paper together, knowing that
Music was my writing strong suit, but I feel
like I can write anything just about But with
my connection to volumes hip -hop it was known
when I came in we wanted to be very careful that
Jessica was the music editor so no one felt There
was any Bias happening or I was changing things
stepping on toes on toes but I did a lot of the
music writing. I did a lot of the culture writing,
too, since being editorial coordinator. Over
time, I worked very closely with Jessica Smith
on the arts and culture and music side of things.
And that's a huge chunk of the paper that used
to be two separate editors. So I would help her
a lot. And at the beginning of the year, She
moved on to a new position that's super great
for her. And so we were like, we don't have to
keep the paper structure like this. It was something
that was left over from COVID. So we restructured
a little bit. And you restructured it based on
the skill set that the team had. Exactly. It
was exactly that. At that point, everyone decided.
Volumes, my connection to volumes was not a concern
anymore. I'd been with the paper long enough
to prove in myself. Kept a lot of my editorial
coordinator duties because I'm really good at
organizing things and picked up music editor
as well. And then now we do have an arts and
culture coordinator position. So we were able
to pull all the pieces of the paper back out
again a little bit. little do they know it's
all part of your master plan master plan right
volumes hip hop into flagpole oh man that's i'll
cut that i don't want to start it's all good
i will say with all the changes my place at flagpole
better serves what i'm writing about in the music
community than volumes does it's it's organic
and i make choices that fit flagpole yeah so
volumes is become much more of just my event
production business. So at this point, I will
say it's really moved away from the zine press
media aspect since I am now at Flagpole. Will
say that that calendar that you put out for a
fest was still very helpful Like super plugged
into every aspect of the music scene here. It's
it was really nice to like Under I wish I wish
porch fest like the calendar for that could be
a little bit easier to read because wow, but
And I will so Just as a product of all the things
that I do and I don't even know who does that.
I'm not trying to call anybody It's something
that's talked about a lot 260 artists this year.
Yeah, it's crazy So I will say the last two years
I have been on the FS booking committee Which
I have loved being a part of that and a big part
of that is Booking the hip -hop acts. This is
actually great because I like Mary told me about
the booking committee yesterday So now I get
to talk to one of you without even realizing
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to drag No, no, you're
great. I've got my hands on all kinds of things.
No, this is perfect. This is perfect Beats nicely.
So how what is the process like with booking
Brass Fest? I was actually really curious and
she was like there's a booking committee totally
there's AFS is a huge undertaking, so Mary does
a great job, but everyone's gotta be in their
lane to make it work. And delegate. Delegate.
So with the Booking Committee, everyone submits,
artists submit, and they submit links and all
their info, and then there's a period during
which the members of the Booking Committee go
through the spreadsheet and check everyone out.
make your own list of priorities, maybes, and
then you just have your nose or your backup,
backups, or things like that. Nobody really campaigns
against people being on. They just have their
picks for it. Yeah. Basically, yeah, we have
our picks for it. The only thing I can think
of is if someone is... I know that this act is
very problematic in some way. It doesn't represent
Athfest or I don't know. It would have to be
pretty extreme to be like, I have to let you
guys know about this person or band. Otherwise,
after we go through looking at the list, we come
together as a group with kind of our picks and
Troy Aubrey is the head of it. and Troy already
always comes with who he's picked for headliners
and who he has offers out for and we fill in
the blanks is essentially how the booking committee
works. And this year, it was really lovely because
we had an intern who was able to facilitate sending
out the contracts. In the past, we've split it
up, gotten the contracts back from people, but
we do Split it up as far as who's contacting
who about the initial offers and getting things
set. How do you make sure that the bands that
share members don't play at the same time? Because
that's got to be like that's got to be like a
real concern. It definitely is. And that's Troy.
That's Troy Aubrey. That's wild. Because John
Neff, who I'm actually going to go talk to this
afternoon, he played in three different bands
at this year's AFFest. And I was just joking
with him. We should just call it NeffFest. But
that's a real concern. I can think of several
other examples where people are in multiple bands
and it's a lot to keep track of. It's not just
the hundred or so artists that play. It's way
more than that. Yeah, which is you talking about
PorchFest makes PorchFest and they're scheduling...
Really intense this year. I can't believe they
let people play in more than one porch fest So
this year was my first year being on the porch
fest committee and I can't speak to a Lot of
the decisions. We definitely came together many
times to talk through improvements concerns and
they've done a really great job of Adding things
like the food truck park and yeah the Indy market
and Indy South market and things like that. They're
really cool the ever -expanding number of acts
is a thing that is widely talked about and I
think that there are Certain point you spread
the people so thin You know, and I haven't been
to a porch fest. I just yeah just think Lee that's
just what happened. It's right the more acts
there are the more people who are going to end
up playing to two or three people in the lawn.
And there's those some acts that are always going
to draw a crowd of 80 people or more or whatever
and spill out into the street. I cannot speak
for historic Athens as far as what the future
holds. I can't speak. But they're aware of some
of these things that are aware. And I think that
sometimes talking to a group of people, you can
bring up criticisms. But when you have all of
these people still willing to sign up, it's hard
to justify. Like sometimes it's hard to justify
your changing. Yeah. Although they're valid,
I think they're valid criticisms. But if people
are still signing up, it's it's on them. They
know what they're signing up for. It's kind of
like Disney raises their prices. People are still
going people. We might think it's it might be.
Tough on the whatever but but and for the people
that they're not wrong anymore. There's others
that are still coming in So that's where I think
it's at Sam. Thank you so much for being here.
Yeah I really appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks. Make sure you check out flagpole magazine.
In fact You have a chance right now to be part
of flagpole magazine Their last issue of the
year, they take user submitted, reader submitted
stories and articles and poems and all that kind
of thing. You can make a submission right now.
That's open for a little bit longer. There's
links in the description to the magazine. There's
links to Volumes Hip Hop. Stick around hit that
subscribe button a lot of people are listening
without subscribing and I appreciate it But we
got a lot of cool stuff coming your way We got
John Neff and Jim chemo West as I mentioned earlier
and then starting in January we're gonna take
a couple weeks off and then starting in January
we got season 3 kicking off with Tommy Simbaz
who's a comedian and a friend of mine and Brian
Howard from cracker and he's played with Kevin
Kenny and Just countless people. Stick around.
We've got a lot coming and we're just getting
started here on overeducated and underemployed.
Happy Thanksgiving, y 'all.