WEBVTT

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cool episode this week we got matthew dudley

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he's a tattoo artist visual artist and uh long

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friend of of mine and uh also he's a regular

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on his brother's podcast what you've been watching

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who released their 100th episode this week so

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make sure you check that out i also uh want to

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remind y 'all that you can pre -order sloan brothers

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new There's a link in the description. They did

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the theme song to this, so thanks a lot. Check

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that out. The new single's awesome. I also want

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to tell y 'all about some upcoming episodes we

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got here. We got John Neff. We've got Jason Thrasher.

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We've got Sam Lipkin. We've got Mary Joyce. And

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we've got Jim Kimo West from Weird Al Yankovic's

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band, the guitar player. and music programmer

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he's also a grammy award -winning slack key guitar

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player so uh we had a great talk i've got a bunch

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of episodes coming for you to round out this

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year so go ahead and hit that subscribe button

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right now and without further ado here is my

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interview with matthew dudley check it out i'm

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here with matthew dudley hello he is a visual

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artist of many mediums And also someone I've

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known a super long time. We played on football

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together. That's right. Yeah, your dad was our

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coach. Yeah, that's how we met. That is true.

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And that was like 35 years ago. Yep. But since

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then, Matthew has blown my mind constantly with

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the art that he makes. Thank you. And I'm really

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excited to sit down and talk to you about it.

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I'm going to ask a lot of questions that I genuinely

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don't know the answer to. That's fair. Even though

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I've known you a long time. Yep. But if I do

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my job right, the audience won't know which ones

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I do know and which ones I don't. So that'll

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be great. But I'm going to start with a variation

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of the question I ask pretty much everybody here.

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And then we'll dive into it all. But what was...

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Typically, just to give you a frame of reference,

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when I interview musicians... I ask them what

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the first song they remember loving as a child

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was. Okay. And that might be an interesting answer

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for you too. Let me answer that first. Yeah.

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First song. I'll say baby stuff, Raffy and whatever

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like that. Sure. I remember one of my first albums

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that I got was The Wall. I'm a huge Floyd fan.

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I fucking love Floyd. That album's a little too

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much though. Long -winded, but Dark Side of the

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Moon is my favorite record. Yeah. Yeah. And my

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dad's a huge music guy, too. Yeah, I've seen

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your dad at way more shows over the years. Yeah,

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sure. But Animals is probably my go -to when

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it comes to Floyd. Yeah. But that Live at Pompeii

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thing is probably... They're mind -blowing, too.

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Yeah, they really... And they knew it. Yeah.

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They really knew it. Well, and also seeing them

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over the years where they were doing the like

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sunshine psychedelic thing and then they moved.

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Oh, acid is real. And it changed their sound,

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especially when Sid left. We got to cover a lot

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of bases and do a different thing now. Yeah.

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Yeah. And they at a certain point, they like

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realized the kind of the power that they had.

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I felt like in it. And I feel like they always

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wielded that power for good. Yeah, I think so.

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And I got into King Crimson recently -ish, and

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they're amazing. Yeah, for sure. They're great.

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I love... Oh, my brain isn't going to work today.

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That's fine. Do you remember what it was that

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first attracted you to Pink Floyd as a kid? I

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hadn't heard anything like it. Yeah. It's really

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one of those bands that you got to lay on your

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floor, smoke a joint, and put some headphones

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on. That's the only way to really get it. And

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it'll really change. It sounds cliche, but it

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really will change the way you listen to music.

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It's true. And I wish people would just pop an

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album on and listen to it all the way through,

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rather than the Spotify playlist shit. You don't

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learn anything from doing that. Sometimes you

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do, but a lot of people listen to music, but

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they don't know artists and they don't know anything

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about it. And for me, it's really important to

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go backwards and look at the history and stuff

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like that. And I think songs can be, and usually,

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especially when bands were recording albums,

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those songs mean more in the context of the album

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than they do on their own. And the time, yeah.

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And drugs are a huge part of music, too. And

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I hate it when bands stop doing drugs. I can't

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listen to them anymore. As much as I think heroin

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is probably a really horrible thing, Miles Davis.

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I've been trying to get into jazz recently, and

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I don't know anything about it. But I started

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getting into it because a lot of modern bands

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I like are jazz influenced. Like, I listen to

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a lot of King Gizzard and Lizard Wizard. Hell

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yeah, yeah. I like a lot of stuff like that where

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it's improvisational. And I started working backwards.

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And I listened to Bitches Brew a few years ago.

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Fucking great album, all the way through. Yeah,

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that record's incredible. Live Evil was another

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one of my favorites of his. Okay. From around

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the same time period, it's epic, man. It's really

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good. And I know you're a Zappa fan, too. Big

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time. Yeah. I don't really know his catalog super

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well, but I appreciate what he does. I feel like

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there's not very many people that can know his

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catalog super well. He put out over 100 records

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now. Before he died, I think it was over 100.

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And now, I think another 60 or so after he's

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passed. And now the vault's been open. It's just

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the floodgates are kind of... crazy like they

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settled all the family estate and everything

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and stuff like that is what i'm really into not

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only in music but in art be prolific make stuff

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make bad stuff make good stuff make in between

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stuff make stuff yeah make stuff and then throw

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it in a fire i don't give a shit like yeah you

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know yeah just make stuff whatever fuck it one

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one thing i haven't heard you mention but i think

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is interesting and i think it's particularly

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interesting to me just because so many of the

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bands that i love I got into this way was the

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album art. And you haven't mentioned that, but

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I'm sure that has played. Can you think of any

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artists that you got into over the years? Because

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the first thing that drew you was the album art

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itself. Oh, man, that's hard. We already talked

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about Floyd. Yeah. I'm a huge fan of the OCs.

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And they have Face Stabber, which has a Frank

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Frazetta painting on it. I was already familiar

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with Frank Frazetta, but I like fantasy, medieval,

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weird color, psychedelic. If you put that on

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your album, I will probably buy it. Yeah. I got

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into Blood Incantation recently, and I'm not

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much of a metal guy, but their album art was

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awesome. What are you going to do? Man, there's,

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to me, there's not a single genre of music that

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I don't find something I like in. I like this.

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There's two kinds of music. There's good music

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and bad music. That's it. And bad music is usually

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just the stuff that I can ignore. Yeah. I'll

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turn it off. Yeah. All right. So let's ask a

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slight variation of that question. What was the

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first artist, visual artist, that you remember

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grabbing you as a kid? And did you start creating

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art? like intentionally before that or was it

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something that you like admired before you started

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I think it was hand in hand it was me being influenced

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by artists like I was already I don't remember

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a time in my life when I wasn't drawing or doodling

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I don't either yeah I can't think of it I remember

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staying super late at night and getting in trouble

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because I was drawing all night because I couldn't

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my brain wouldn't stop And your brother and I

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would be like up all night playing video games.

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Yeah. And you'd have your sketch pad like on

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the couch next to us a lot of the time. Yeah.

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But just you'd be drawn and we'd be playing Mario.

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And when I lock in, I am locked in. I find it

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hard to eat, drink, anything. Like I am in it.

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That's my focus. But I'm a huge Final Fantasy

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guy. I grew up playing old school Final Fantasies.

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And Yoshitaka Amano blew my mind when I saw his

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artwork. And I started replicating that. I actually

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brought. a rip off of his with me. Like when

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you think about bands, like the first thing you

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do, musicians, like the first thing you do is

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you learn how to play other people's songs. Yes.

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Yeah, exactly. And I think that's actually really

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important to being an artist or a musician or

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whatever is people are so precious about this

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idea of tracing or copying and being original.

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Your mother's a tracer. Yeah. The reality is,

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that's funny. The reality is it's okay. It's

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fine. Da Vinci fucking traced. He used a camera

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obscura. He projected an image and then traced

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people. That's history, okay? It's okay to trace.

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It's fine. How else are you going to get, like,

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knees? Some people are really observant, but

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even learning how to paint from observation,

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a lot of times you spend time tracing things

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to make sure they're right also. I mean, everyone

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has different methods, but go trace. It's fine.

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I love that... video game and I remember you

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being really into final like I remember when

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I think Final Fantasy 7 or 8 came out playing

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a currently yeah right now and I remember when

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it came out and you like that's all you were

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doing for a while and then the online one came

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out 11 and 14 yeah but it was 11 is the one I

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remember because I think we were in like middle

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school or maybe you were in high school by then

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yeah I was in high school by the time but I was

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still in middle school and I just remember that

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was like anytime I'd be at your house, like that's

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what you would be doing. I failed many classes

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because. But I think it's really interesting

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that a video game or a video game artist was

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one of the first things that really drew you

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in. I talk a lot about how music games have changed

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the kinds of music that I like because I'm not

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like a club guy. Sure. But you put that same

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song in Beat Saber and I get it. I'm like, oh,

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this is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And video games

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and music, it's changed over time. The things

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that they were able to do back in the day was

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very limited. They didn't have like sound cards

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and all that stuff. And basically the PlayStation

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and forward, the sound cards got good enough

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where they could do full orchestras now. And

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that changed it. And Final Fantasy always had

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really incredible music, too. Yeah, that's Nubuo

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Matsu. Really good. Big fan of his. So at what

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point did you start emulating that art? I think

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right away, man. Because here's a funny story.

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I remember in elementary school, like first or

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second grade or something, people found out that

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I could draw. And they said, oh, this guy can

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draw fucking Ninja Turtles. Really? what if you

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guys did a competition i was like yeah i'll fuck

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him up so i drew michelangelo and it was badass

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and we both bet a cookie on it okay and we had

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a judge or whatever and the other guy drew a

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little mushroom head ninja turtle with little

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stick hands and legs and the judge gave it to

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him instead of me who drew a badass michelangelo

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it looked more like michelangelo i was like fuck

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you and i ate my cookie hell yeah yeah i knew

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what i had though Yeah, for sure. So I know you

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worked like a lot of kind of like traditional

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jobs over the years, too, or really, maybe really

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one. I had a few, but there was one main one.

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Yeah, I worked at a grocery store. And that's

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not the case anymore, though, right? Yeah, I

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quit five years ago, retired entirely. And you're

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a full time artist. That's what I do. And at

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what point? did you realize that you were going

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to be able to do that? And I'm jumping ahead

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a lot here and we'll fill in the gaps over the

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next little bit. But I didn't, to be honest,

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I didn't, I just jumped. I was going to therapy.

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I was like super stressed out because I was working

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my ass off. And what I really wanted to do was

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draw. I went to art school for it. I paid my

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way cash money through art school and I came

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out and I was doing the same shit I was before.

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I was working retail at a grocery store, and

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I was going to a therapist, and I told him what

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I wanted to do, and he said, okay, do it. And

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that's all I needed. It was almost like you just

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needed someone to give you permission. Yeah,

00:14:08.450 --> 00:14:10.929
exactly. And I could have done that myself. I

00:14:10.929 --> 00:14:13.230
could have. Give yourself permission. It's okay.

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That's why we pay therapists, too, right? They

00:14:16.409 --> 00:14:19.549
don't give you advice. No. That's not their job.

00:14:19.610 --> 00:14:22.750
No. They ask you what you want, and then they

00:14:22.750 --> 00:14:24.669
tell you to go do it, unless what you want is

00:14:24.669 --> 00:14:27.950
really dumb. yeah that's the problem with getting

00:14:27.950 --> 00:14:31.009
therapy from chat gpt right like because they're

00:14:31.009 --> 00:14:32.730
not humans and they don't understand the human

00:14:32.730 --> 00:14:35.509
condition at all and they're just it's just like

00:14:35.509 --> 00:14:37.809
constant they're like a constant yes man yeah

00:14:37.809 --> 00:14:40.330
yeah but it was nice to have a yes man in my

00:14:40.330 --> 00:14:45.389
life in that moment and i think the paradox of

00:14:45.389 --> 00:14:49.269
being like a real artist is never really knowing

00:14:49.269 --> 00:14:53.460
or fully believing necessarily that like you

00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:55.539
might know that what you're doing is good but

00:14:55.539 --> 00:14:57.919
like knowing that other people are going to see

00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:01.360
that is not necessary and you like even it sounds

00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:03.320
like even from a young age like you experienced

00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.700
the fact that you knew what you had was like

00:15:06.700 --> 00:15:09.639
yeah special yeah it's getting other but the

00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:12.519
other people were like fuck that i want the thing

00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:14.519
is if you believe in you and whether you do or

00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:17.419
not pursue what you want do it do it no matter

00:15:17.419 --> 00:15:20.039
what people say it doesn't fucking matter What

00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.279
happens? Oh, you made something dumb or awesome

00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:26.320
and no one sees it. So what? Fuck it. Go make

00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.019
stuff. And you really highlighted something that

00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:34.340
J. Roddy Walston said on the first interview

00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:38.600
I did on this podcast was like, if you have something

00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:41.299
like this that you want to do, whether it's art

00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:45.220
or music or comedy or whatever, don't give yourself

00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:48.230
a backup plan. Yes, that's true. Because you're

00:15:48.230 --> 00:15:52.129
going to do that. And it sounds like that's how

00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:55.649
you did it. It was like you gave up on your backup.

00:15:55.750 --> 00:15:58.370
You abandoned the backup plan or the safe option.

00:15:59.149 --> 00:16:01.789
And I hated the safe option. It wasn't for me.

00:16:01.990 --> 00:16:04.769
It was fine. It paid me some money that I could

00:16:04.769 --> 00:16:07.529
pay my bills. But you can make it happen if you

00:16:07.529 --> 00:16:12.000
want it to. Yeah. You have to make it so you

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.799
have to make it happen. Exactly. Give yourself

00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:21.019
no other option. So let's go back. Then you start

00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:24.580
emulating a lot of the art that you're seeing

00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:28.659
in Final Fantasy and... Dragon Quest, Akira Toriyama,

00:16:28.820 --> 00:16:31.840
Dragon Ball Z was huge when I was a kid. I drew

00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:34.379
that stuff for shits and gigs just to learn how

00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:38.460
to do it. And do you remember, there may not

00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:40.600
have been like a particularly... turning point,

00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:42.960
but do you remember like when you started to

00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:45.059
develop your own style? I don't think I have.

00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:47.519
I really don't. I don't think anyone has their

00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:51.120
own style that they're aware of. I could be wrong

00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.039
about that. I think that you, because you know

00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:58.460
so much about you and what influences you, whether

00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:01.299
you're, you think that whatever you're doing

00:17:01.299 --> 00:17:03.840
is influenced by this person and therefore it

00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:08.119
is not unique, but it is. It's because it's put

00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.140
through the filter of you. Exactly. And I don't

00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:13.579
think I have a style. I'm pretty sure it exists.

00:17:14.299 --> 00:17:17.680
Sure. No, I see what you're saying. I think it's

00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:22.880
interesting to think about because I think...

00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.480
You're too close to your own art to really make

00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:28.339
that statement. Yeah, you're making a very constructivist

00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:31.180
kind of argument. A lot of times when artists...

00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:33.279
that I don't like that I think are hack fraud

00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.339
dickheads. And they start talking about... Start

00:17:36.339 --> 00:17:41.940
naming names. Damien Hirst, I can't stand. They're

00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:44.039
hack frauds because they come off insincere and

00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:47.240
they talk about their work. Especially if you're

00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.180
like, oh, my work is influenced by this and this.

00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:52.140
Your audience is there comparing you to those

00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:55.000
things. And you're shooting yourself in the foot

00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:57.019
by doing that. You don't need to tell people

00:17:57.019 --> 00:18:00.619
how the sausage is made. It's okay. Agreed. Agreed.

00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:03.299
That being said, tell us more about how the sausage

00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:04.940
is made. Where do you want to start? How about

00:18:04.940 --> 00:18:08.819
that? I think what I'm getting at, and this is

00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:12.200
a really... You've seen Adaptation with Nicolas

00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.940
Cage? Yeah, I actually hate that movie. Sure.

00:18:15.740 --> 00:18:18.400
I took a date to it, and she was having a terrible

00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.740
time, and therefore I was having a terrible time,

00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.980
and we left in the middle of it. It gets weirder

00:18:23.980 --> 00:18:28.440
halfway through. It almost becomes his brother's

00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:32.849
movie. The point I'm making is it's a very constructivist

00:18:32.849 --> 00:18:36.650
account of making a movie. It's like you cannot

00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:41.390
remove the artist from the art. And love or hate

00:18:41.390 --> 00:18:43.990
the movie, I think it does do that well. Sure,

00:18:44.029 --> 00:18:45.630
and Nick Cage is good in it, so is Meryl Streep.

00:18:45.750 --> 00:18:47.650
Yeah, yeah. It didn't work for me personally.

00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:50.789
I was bored out of my mind. I can relate to that.

00:18:50.890 --> 00:18:53.230
I feel like the first time I saw it, I was cool.

00:18:54.220 --> 00:18:56.119
every time I've tried to rewatch it, I was like,

00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:59.000
I've seen this. I get it. Yeah. And like, I watch

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.559
a lot of movies. I like garbage. I like really

00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.740
terrible, horrible crap. Adaptation just didn't

00:19:05.740 --> 00:19:08.680
work for me. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. But I think,

00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:10.859
and the only reason I brought it up is because

00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:14.400
I think it gives a really, it paints a really

00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.900
good picture of what constructive, like a constructivist

00:19:17.900 --> 00:19:23.240
account of an art piece can be. And it sounds

00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.789
like you're, You really have a very similar perspective

00:19:26.789 --> 00:19:30.730
where it's, I might, but almost like to this

00:19:30.730 --> 00:19:32.910
extreme point where it almost has the reverse

00:19:32.910 --> 00:19:37.309
effect. It's like, you're so acknowledging your

00:19:37.309 --> 00:19:42.609
influences that it becomes your own thing. Oh

00:19:42.609 --> 00:19:45.609
yeah. And you're still not removing yourself

00:19:45.609 --> 00:19:47.789
from the equation at all. In fact, you're the

00:19:47.789 --> 00:19:51.470
crucial part of the equation. Yep. Yep. Exactly.

00:19:51.650 --> 00:19:57.480
You got it. What point did you feel like, okay,

00:19:57.539 --> 00:20:01.460
let me reframe this. What happens when you don't

00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:04.039
draw for an extended period of time? Have you

00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:05.799
ever had a period of time where that's... Oh,

00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:08.599
yeah, sure. Rest is really important. And if

00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.380
you feel burnout, take some time. It's okay.

00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.680
But at some point, especially when it's your

00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:16.660
job and you have to make money, you just got

00:20:16.660 --> 00:20:18.720
to do the work. You got to go into work. Like

00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.700
I'm a tattooer now. You don't get to do... Fun

00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:24.640
stuff every day. Sometimes it's just slapping

00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.480
names on people. It pays the bills. Yeah. It's

00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:32.500
okay. Yeah. What about, so you talked about this

00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:36.240
kind of like almost a compulsion to create. Oh,

00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.339
yeah. What happens on that side of things when

00:20:40.339 --> 00:20:43.359
you're not, when you're, can you tell when you're

00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:46.779
like done resting? No, not really. Because when

00:20:46.779 --> 00:20:49.140
I am resting, my brain is constantly like, oh,

00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:50.539
you should be drawing right now. You should be

00:20:50.539 --> 00:20:53.619
doing this. What should we do? And I start to

00:20:53.619 --> 00:20:57.240
spiral. And I play a lot of video games that

00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:59.680
are really monotonous because I don't have to

00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.059
think about stuff. I can just hit X for 70 hours

00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:06.339
straight. I play a really grindy kind of stuff

00:21:06.339 --> 00:21:10.380
because I can let my brain wander and do different

00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:14.259
stuff while I'm hitting X. And that's important

00:21:14.259 --> 00:21:16.319
to me. And I think that is really important to

00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.740
people that if you have... an art block or a

00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:21.220
writing block or something like that, go take

00:21:21.220 --> 00:21:24.859
a really long walk. It almost sounds like you

00:21:24.859 --> 00:21:28.039
get into almost like a meditative state. Oh,

00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:29.680
yeah. Well, and meditation is really important,

00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:32.279
too, to be honest. It's a way to center yourself

00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.220
and just be quiet. It sounds like you've done

00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:39.940
a lot of different things to keep yourself balanced.

00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.500
And it sounds like a lot of it's very intentional.

00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:47.299
I think it's more... Yeah, it's intentional because

00:21:47.299 --> 00:21:50.819
I... trained myself for that but now it's more

00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:54.200
just what i do yeah yeah it starts intentional

00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.960
and it just becomes habit yeah exactly but you

00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:00.160
built those habits intentionally and is there

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.720
was there something like where did that like

00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.039
the desire to to create those routines and in

00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.460
and integrate these like well -being balance

00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:14.460
i had a weird childhood and i think it was just

00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:19.940
survival to be real Yeah, yeah. I think there's

00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:21.559
a reason you see a lot of artists and musicians

00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:25.559
and stuff come from weird family dynamics. Yeah,

00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.619
most of the people I've talked to, and it's not

00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:30.940
universal. No. But what I will say is universal

00:22:30.940 --> 00:22:35.299
is whether it's an external family dynamic or

00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:40.039
an internal anxiety or turmoil, I think there

00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:45.640
is a universal kind of like pain. Yeah, and I...

00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.140
hate the idea of the starving artists and the

00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:51.359
traumatic artists the tortured artists yeah because

00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:54.160
no it's not true but at the same time the people

00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.039
that aren't torture are like nepo baby artists

00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.660
that just bought their way into a gallery yeah

00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:02.339
all the times and yet again it comes off super

00:23:02.339 --> 00:23:05.039
insincere every time and you can also see it

00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.880
with artists who start in a certain like a certain

00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.819
amount of struggle and then gain a certain amount

00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:15.470
of success right like eminem's first two records

00:23:15.470 --> 00:23:20.750
and like currently people love to put basquiat

00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:23.630
on this pedestal and it was a time and place

00:23:23.630 --> 00:23:26.230
he found a rich ass white man to help him out

00:23:26.230 --> 00:23:28.329
but he was a fucking heroin addict that drew

00:23:28.329 --> 00:23:30.890
stuff and we don't need to put his life on a

00:23:30.890 --> 00:23:33.650
pedestal he was really important to the community

00:23:33.650 --> 00:23:36.750
that he was connected with you random ass rich

00:23:36.750 --> 00:23:40.269
white dude fucking get off basquiat's dick i'm

00:23:40.269 --> 00:23:42.210
telling you get off his dick i'm fucking sick

00:23:42.210 --> 00:23:45.380
of it But who am I? Whatever. But I also think

00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:50.160
there's this dynamic that exists where the torture

00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.940
part, the torment, the fire, whatever you want

00:23:53.940 --> 00:23:57.339
to call it, the darkness. Sure. The thing that

00:23:57.339 --> 00:24:01.200
drives it is what makes it authentic. Yes. And

00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.960
that's what makes these Nepo babies. Like, so

00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:09.940
it's so obvious when Baird just, oh, I went to

00:24:09.940 --> 00:24:13.480
this thing and I like. Okay, so recently Adrian

00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:16.759
Brody, he was in the news because he sold a painting

00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:19.839
for $350 ,000 or something. And it's terrible.

00:24:20.059 --> 00:24:23.500
It's a horrible painting. And it only costs that

00:24:23.500 --> 00:24:25.579
much because he's connected to it. If you want

00:24:25.579 --> 00:24:28.079
to look at a good example of somebody like that,

00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:31.279
Dennis Hopper. Yeah. Because when he started

00:24:31.279 --> 00:24:33.220
doing the gallery scene and selling his photographs,

00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:35.859
he didn't connect his name to it. Nobody knew

00:24:35.859 --> 00:24:39.559
who he was. And they figured it out over time

00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:41.660
because... Good old King Koopa, right? Yeah,

00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:43.859
King Koopa. And also, he was in Waterworld as

00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:47.779
well. But he was selling behind -the -scenes

00:24:47.779 --> 00:24:50.980
photos from a lot of the movies that he worked

00:24:50.980 --> 00:24:52.599
on. Didn't put his name on it. People didn't

00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:56.599
know who he was. And so he got recognition from

00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:01.299
that side of it. I think he used a pseudonym.

00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:03.779
I don't really remember. But people recognized

00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:05.779
him for his talent and what he was doing behind

00:25:05.779 --> 00:25:09.099
the scenes without being, I'm a Hollywood actor.

00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:12.240
Come buy my art. Don't do that. And the other

00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:16.859
thing about the artists that don't have to struggle.

00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:23.059
Yeah. Because I think there's no way to get rid

00:25:23.059 --> 00:25:25.359
of their backup plan. They don't need a backup

00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:27.599
plan. Right. Their backup plan is like... They

00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:30.039
could do nothing. They could do no movies or

00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:32.619
TV at all ever and sit there and count their

00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:34.420
money for the rest of their life. They don't

00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:36.480
have to do this stuff. I don't understand what...

00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.099
Go make something. Put it in your house. You

00:25:40.099 --> 00:25:42.799
don't have to sell it to the world. I have a

00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:44.519
couple of paintings. I'm terrible, but I have

00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:45.900
a couple of paintings I did over there in the

00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:49.039
corner. They're just up because they're mine.

00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:52.539
And there's something I made. Things don't have

00:25:52.539 --> 00:25:56.819
to be commoditized and monetized and given to

00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:59.759
the world. You can have things for you. It's

00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.940
okay. And make stuff for you and then sell it.

00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:05.220
Do whatever. I think you'll find more passion

00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:07.559
when you're not worried about your audience and

00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:10.130
what they want. And when you're truly doing something

00:26:10.130 --> 00:26:13.410
that you want to do, either people get it or

00:26:13.410 --> 00:26:15.569
they don't. And that's the ironic thing is once

00:26:15.569 --> 00:26:18.210
you stop trying to be marketable, you suddenly

00:26:18.210 --> 00:26:20.470
become way more marketable than you've ever been.

00:26:20.529 --> 00:26:23.049
Yep. Because it's authentic. Yeah, exactly. And

00:26:23.049 --> 00:26:26.730
that's true whether it's music or comedy or painting

00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:32.670
or whatever the fuck. Any good comedian, the

00:26:32.670 --> 00:26:35.150
advice that they got that changed everything

00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:37.920
for them was like, Stop trying to be anybody

00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:42.740
else. Yeah. And just be yourself. Yeah. That's

00:26:42.740 --> 00:26:45.960
good advice. Because it doesn't work when you're

00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.480
trying to be something else. When I worked in

00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:50.819
retail, I hated it. I started when I was 15.

00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:53.680
I hated it. And they kept giving me shit. Like,

00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:55.599
oh, you're not being personable enough. And I

00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.680
ended up coming up with a character, the retail

00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:02.380
character. I'm going to be the best employee

00:27:02.380 --> 00:27:03.539
and I'm going to annoy the shit out of them.

00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:05.319
And they loved it. And they kept giving me more

00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:07.740
and more money. The thing is, it killed my soul.

00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.660
I hated every second of it. It is totally fake

00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:16.180
every second. And I did that for almost 20 years.

00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:19.160
If you want the rehearsal with Nathan Fielder,

00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:21.960
I would encourage you to check it out. And the

00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:25.259
reason I mentioned it is like this last season,

00:27:25.339 --> 00:27:28.240
he's exploring like airline safety, pilot safety.

00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:32.690
Oh, okay. But he finds that one of the biggest

00:27:32.690 --> 00:27:34.829
problem, like the biggest contributing factor

00:27:34.829 --> 00:27:38.329
to crashes is like pilot and co -pilot communication.

00:27:38.890 --> 00:27:41.529
Okay. And like the power dynamics between them.

00:27:41.670 --> 00:27:45.190
Okay. And so he eventually comes up with this

00:27:45.190 --> 00:27:47.890
thing where they basically are like, okay, you're

00:27:47.890 --> 00:27:49.609
going to play this character while you're in

00:27:49.609 --> 00:27:51.329
the pilot and you're going to play this character

00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:53.630
while you're the co -pilot. And it's the reverse

00:27:53.630 --> 00:27:55.210
of what you're talking about where it's, this

00:27:55.210 --> 00:27:57.589
is not a soul sucking experience. This is like.

00:27:58.029 --> 00:28:02.210
a way to like kind of balance the power structure.

00:28:02.390 --> 00:28:05.230
So we're like, if the co -pilot sees a problem,

00:28:05.390 --> 00:28:08.130
they're not afraid to like speak up to the pilot.

00:28:08.170 --> 00:28:13.809
Who's usually their senior. Okay. But this actually

00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:17.529
worked. Okay. And while this particular character

00:28:17.529 --> 00:28:21.049
may have sucked your soul, it also worked in

00:28:21.049 --> 00:28:23.609
the, in the, and it changed my brain because

00:28:23.609 --> 00:28:26.690
you do something enough. You fake happy enough.

00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:30.779
and it does change your brain so fake it till

00:28:30.779 --> 00:28:34.660
you make it worked take it seriously but yes

00:28:34.660 --> 00:28:37.660
yeah you have to and you have to if you like

00:28:37.660 --> 00:28:39.160
are in the gallery scene or something like that

00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.880
and you're like really downtrodden and you don't

00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:43.440
really like your art people are going to pick

00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.680
up on that yeah and they're not why would they

00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.240
buy your art if you don't like it yeah i i have

00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:52.180
never told a joke and had to be like y 'all think

00:28:52.180 --> 00:28:55.130
that was fun I knew it was funny if it didn't

00:28:55.130 --> 00:28:58.569
connect and I just needed to rework. It's like

00:28:58.569 --> 00:29:01.869
a word order thing. I would never tell a joke

00:29:01.869 --> 00:29:04.529
on stage where I didn't know that the core of

00:29:04.529 --> 00:29:07.710
it was fucking hilarious. Sure. If it doesn't

00:29:07.710 --> 00:29:10.109
connect, that's a different story. That's a different

00:29:10.109 --> 00:29:14.450
issue. But if I'm not conveying that. Sometimes

00:29:14.450 --> 00:29:17.250
it's where you can't tell southern jokes in the

00:29:17.250 --> 00:29:19.089
north unless you're punching down at the south.

00:29:19.750 --> 00:29:23.579
Or a bunch of different dynamics. Let me ask

00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:26.980
you. So when you do comedy, do you have a character?

00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:29.160
Is it just a heightened version of yourself or

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.759
is it like this performance? No, I think. It's

00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.559
just you? I think if anything, it might be the

00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.519
most authentic version of myself. Okay. Like

00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:43.339
I admit, I've admitted things on stage that I

00:29:43.339 --> 00:29:46.180
don't think I could admit in a regular conversation

00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:49.140
without being looked at as fucking weird. Okay.

00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:53.619
But like the context of being. oh the point of

00:29:53.619 --> 00:29:57.319
this is to tell a joke i can share certain things

00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:59.759
like and i'm not like talking about like confessing

00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:01.980
crimes or anything like that other than like

00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:07.079
drug use i guess but i i do think that like that

00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.740
and this is where i similar to like you drawing

00:30:11.740 --> 00:30:14.079
a ninja turtle i haven't been doing stand -up

00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:17.480
that couple of years now but i knew the first

00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:20.240
time i got on stage it was for you and it was

00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:23.230
working yeah yeah and i'm not saying i've never

00:30:23.230 --> 00:30:25.490
bombed because i yeah of course but i definitely

00:30:25.490 --> 00:30:28.490
didn't bomb my first time up sure and part of

00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:31.670
it was i've done so many different things in

00:30:31.670 --> 00:30:34.150
my life over the years leading up to this that

00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:37.049
can true like i don't feel dave chappelle got

00:30:37.049 --> 00:30:40.490
on stage at 14 and killed and he's just been

00:30:40.490 --> 00:30:43.109
that's what he's always been sure whereas i feel

00:30:43.109 --> 00:30:45.349
like i just did a lot of shit in my life that

00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:47.549
removed a lot of the obstacles that a lot of

00:30:47.549 --> 00:30:50.250
comedians have to go through experience the first

00:30:50.890 --> 00:30:53.789
few years right where they're finding their voice

00:30:53.789 --> 00:30:56.230
they're getting used to like public speaking

00:30:56.230 --> 00:30:59.789
or whatever like all these things that and so

00:30:59.789 --> 00:31:02.970
I got up there and I felt almost like I felt

00:31:02.970 --> 00:31:05.589
like I was myself for the first time okay yeah

00:31:05.589 --> 00:31:11.150
and that was how I knew oh this is I started

00:31:11.150 --> 00:31:13.630
identifying as a comedian like after doing three

00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:16.450
open mics because I was like I'm this is what

00:31:16.450 --> 00:31:21.730
I am okay like I Fortune Feimster, she said on

00:31:21.730 --> 00:31:24.670
the Blocks podcast with Neil Brennan, he asked

00:31:24.670 --> 00:31:28.130
her, do you identify as gay or as a comedian

00:31:28.130 --> 00:31:30.670
first? And without any hesitation, she was like,

00:31:30.730 --> 00:31:36.349
I identify as a comedian first. And I think that's

00:31:36.349 --> 00:31:38.230
what happened. The moment I got a taste of it,

00:31:38.269 --> 00:31:40.970
I was like, oh, I've found this part of myself

00:31:40.970 --> 00:31:46.329
that allows me to be myself. And I feel like

00:31:46.329 --> 00:31:50.119
that's probably what happens. in a way to like

00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:52.519
most artists once they when it when things start

00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.619
clicking for them um yeah and even after it clicks

00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:58.579
you can still struggle and you just gotta keep

00:31:58.579 --> 00:32:00.920
keep your head on keep working there's always

00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:04.640
another cave exactly every cave isn't yeah it's

00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.339
just inside another cave yeah i don't know what

00:32:07.339 --> 00:32:11.259
that means but i get it the allegory just like

00:32:11.259 --> 00:32:13.180
every time you leave the cave you're really you're

00:32:13.180 --> 00:32:15.599
just in another cave with a new set of shadows

00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.720
and Eventually you'll leave that cave and things

00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.200
will get a little bit more clear, but always

00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.539
another cave. And when I found tattooing, because

00:32:25.539 --> 00:32:30.220
I did the studio art thing, I got a degree in

00:32:30.220 --> 00:32:34.119
that. I worked in a museum for a while and I

00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:36.660
almost went into museum studies. That's what

00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:39.619
I did. Did you? Yeah. And I realized it was too

00:32:39.619 --> 00:32:43.400
stuffy for me. Yeah. I came at it, I was like

00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:46.119
the only, I'm a historian of science. Oh, okay.

00:32:46.180 --> 00:32:48.359
I have an art history degree. And I was the only

00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:51.240
person in there that wasn't an art historian

00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.299
or an information science major. I was the only

00:32:55.299 --> 00:32:59.500
historian of science. But it was cool. A lot

00:32:59.500 --> 00:33:02.839
more after me went into it. Like four or five

00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:04.880
other people from my program ended up doing it

00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.720
just in the following years. That's cool. And

00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:09.819
like one of them works at a science museum up

00:33:09.819 --> 00:33:12.200
in North Carolina. That's cool. I worked at the

00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:15.279
museum in Gadsden, the Gadsden Art Center. Yeah.

00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:18.200
I was an intern there for six months. Really

00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.279
crazy because it's a tiny museum, but we had

00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.099
a Salvador Dali. We had a Picasso at a time.

00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:27.119
I'm a huge fan of, do you know the Florida Highwaymen?

00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.680
Yeah, of course. We did a whole show of that

00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.299
and I handled all of it. I actually did a show

00:33:31.299 --> 00:33:36.329
of reproductions on canvas. This state capital

00:33:36.329 --> 00:33:41.049
has a dozen or so original paintings that they

00:33:41.049 --> 00:33:45.930
commissioned for a calendar. Okay. Back 80s or

00:33:45.930 --> 00:33:51.470
90s. Okay. And I commissioned, like, I had to

00:33:51.470 --> 00:33:54.930
do a thing at the Florida State Fair, and I reproduced

00:33:54.930 --> 00:33:58.869
all 12 of them, printed them on canvas, and did

00:33:58.869 --> 00:34:01.250
another. It's the only other place that they're

00:34:01.250 --> 00:34:04.559
on display anywhere. He's at the Florida State

00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.079
Fair down in Tampa. That's cool. And they're

00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.159
reproductions, but I printed them on canvas,

00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:12.159
really nice. And the originals are in the state

00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:14.780
capitol. You can go see them. That's cool. Yeah,

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.980
big fan of the Highwaymen, for sure. Fuck yeah.

00:34:19.340 --> 00:34:21.920
And what's interesting about them, and like Bob

00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.559
Ross, Bob Ross is from St. Augustine era originally.

00:34:25.300 --> 00:34:29.019
That style of painting comes from German romance

00:34:29.019 --> 00:34:32.139
paintings. Caspar Friedrich, who's one of my

00:34:32.139 --> 00:34:34.960
favorite landscape painters. And so basically

00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.940
Germans came over and brought this style of painting

00:34:36.940 --> 00:34:40.360
with them. And then in the 60s, 70s, 80s, the

00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.579
Florida Highwaymen, which were a group of black

00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:46.420
painters that were training each other. Yeah,

00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.099
they were all self -taught. They were self -taught

00:34:48.099 --> 00:34:51.159
and really fucking good. Yeah, incredible. They

00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:52.760
would throw all their paintings in the back of

00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.460
a truck and go down the highway and sell their

00:34:55.460 --> 00:34:58.440
paintings to randoms. That's why they're the

00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:01.900
Highwaymen. They were so prolific. And there

00:35:01.900 --> 00:35:03.619
was like a dozen of them or something. Yeah.

00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:06.199
But when I worked in the museum, I had to like

00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:08.340
find a bunch of paintings and we were trying

00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:11.119
to get an original Alfred Hare. So I had to call

00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:14.300
the Alfred Hare Museum in St. Augustine. And

00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:16.360
we had to try to get them. Never heard back.

00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:20.480
Oh, wow. But we had a bunch of other ones. It

00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.039
was great. The Florida History Museum has a pretty

00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:27.179
nice collection. And they did a... I actually

00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:29.019
feel like several of them are on display. It's

00:35:29.019 --> 00:35:31.880
closed right now. My dad actually has a few highwaymen.

00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:33.840
Oh, nice. Yeah, I'm going to go steal them from

00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:36.579
him. Yeah, yeah. He's not using them. If you

00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:40.599
need a pair of gloved hands, I've got my archivist

00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:42.840
gloves in the back. Cut them out of the frame.

00:35:42.940 --> 00:35:46.599
I would never do that. So at what point did you

00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:50.380
start commodifying? I know that not everything

00:35:50.380 --> 00:35:53.599
has to be commodified. That's your philosophy.

00:35:54.460 --> 00:35:57.400
But you also acknowledge that you got to eat.

00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.440
Yep. At what point were you able to start commodifying

00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:04.079
your art and start making money from it? And

00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.940
you start to see, oh, maybe I could. Honestly,

00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:10.960
when I started tattooing. Yeah. It's a trade.

00:36:11.380 --> 00:36:14.639
It's a trade. And you can be an artist and a

00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:18.659
tattooer. I view them as, I would say, separate.

00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.000
There's a crossover. There's a Venn diagram where

00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.980
they cross over. Just because you're an artist

00:36:23.980 --> 00:36:26.340
and a good artist doesn't mean you're going to

00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:29.960
be a good tattooer. It is a people business.

00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:33.539
I've seen that shit. You have to deal with people

00:36:33.539 --> 00:36:35.639
with crazy ideas and you have to know what you

00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:37.780
can do and what you can't do. And sometimes you

00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:41.400
got to pay your bills. And that's that. I have

00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:43.679
a style that I like. I like to do like American

00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:45.900
traditional and Japanese traditional. I do a

00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.380
lot of fine line stuff. But if you go on my Instagram

00:36:48.380 --> 00:36:51.829
page, you'll never see realism. And every other

00:36:51.829 --> 00:36:53.429
day, somebody's like, oh, I want this realism.

00:36:54.210 --> 00:36:57.610
Bro, where do you see? Yeah. It's like, I'm not

00:36:57.610 --> 00:36:59.570
the artist for you. Yeah. And so basically, I

00:36:59.570 --> 00:37:00.809
just try to be like, yeah, this isn't really

00:37:00.809 --> 00:37:02.849
my style. If you want to do this sort of thing,

00:37:02.909 --> 00:37:04.630
here's some artists you can go to that do that.

00:37:04.769 --> 00:37:08.349
Yeah, for sure. And it's a people business. What

00:37:08.349 --> 00:37:11.190
tools do you use to understand your own limitations

00:37:11.190 --> 00:37:12.969
when it comes to that sort of thing? Because

00:37:12.969 --> 00:37:16.750
it's not, how do you even practice? There's like

00:37:16.750 --> 00:37:19.739
fake skin and stuff like that. It's not the same

00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:22.599
as real skin. I practiced on myself. I tattooed

00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:24.260
my older brother and they're horrible. Please

00:37:24.260 --> 00:37:26.400
don't ask to see them. They're terrible. They're

00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.900
like some of my first tattoos ever. I didn't

00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:30.619
know what I was doing. My mentor wasn't very

00:37:30.619 --> 00:37:33.900
involved in my apprenticeship. So it was me just

00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:37.980
learning on the fly. And shout out to your two

00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:41.340
older brothers. Oh yeah, Michael. Your sandwich.

00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:45.260
Yeah. The bread of the Dudley sandwich on the

00:37:45.260 --> 00:37:47.199
What You Been Watching podcast. Yeah, that's

00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:50.780
right. I've been on a few times. I usually just

00:37:50.780 --> 00:37:53.119
go in and shit on them, whatever they like. I

00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.380
found that's my place on their podcast. Yeah,

00:37:55.380 --> 00:37:57.199
but I just want to give them a shout out. Check

00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.739
out. They've been doing it a long time and it's

00:37:59.739 --> 00:38:02.619
really awesome. And for me, it's not a podcast.

00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:04.340
I just go in and I shoot the shit with them.

00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.219
To be honest, that's exactly what I'm kind of

00:38:07.219 --> 00:38:10.780
like. I feel like I'm having an intentional conversation,

00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:13.280
but I'm still just having a conversation with

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.920
people on here. And they are too. They're talking

00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:21.139
about a particular movie or show or whatever.

00:38:21.139 --> 00:38:23.039
We have very different tastes in movies. Yeah,

00:38:23.059 --> 00:38:25.099
yeah, yeah. If you haven't picked up on that.

00:38:25.500 --> 00:38:28.940
For sure. No, one thing I've always found about

00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:31.739
all three of y 'all is that... Different people?

00:38:32.139 --> 00:38:36.840
No, but... Yeah, obviously. No, but I relate

00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:38.920
to all three of you in, like, different ways.

00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:42.900
In different ways, yeah. And so... Marcus and

00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:45.059
I have always were the closest in age and we've

00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:48.079
always been like the closest but I've also always

00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:50.599
loved all three of y 'all and always had like

00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:52.619
different little connections with each one of

00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:54.760
you where it was like but they were pretty unique

00:38:54.760 --> 00:38:57.920
yeah where it wasn't where like all four of us

00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.400
were gonna go do something together pretty talk

00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:04.260
about something together or even usually like

00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:07.320
birthday parties and get to go yeah families

00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:12.030
were friends too and it's just but Each one of

00:39:12.030 --> 00:39:15.969
you, I have these threads where it's, oh, yeah.

00:39:16.590 --> 00:39:19.130
Me and Marcus connect on this, and me and Matt

00:39:19.130 --> 00:39:21.090
connect on this. When you're somebody that has

00:39:21.090 --> 00:39:24.730
varied tastes and stuff, it's easy to do that.

00:39:24.789 --> 00:39:27.750
You can find a common thread anywhere. So when

00:39:27.750 --> 00:39:29.289
I tattoo people, one of the first questions I

00:39:29.289 --> 00:39:31.510
ask is, what kind of music do you like? Because

00:39:31.510 --> 00:39:34.829
it's a commonality for 99 % of people, and one

00:39:34.829 --> 00:39:37.230
week I had three or four different people say,

00:39:37.349 --> 00:39:39.579
I don't really like music. I was like, get the

00:39:39.579 --> 00:39:42.579
fuck out of my chair. It was insane. What a psychopath.

00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:46.500
I don't understand. They said, I listen to podcasts.

00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:51.280
Like, oh, you're a psychopath. Yeah, I don't

00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:54.119
get it when people say that. Insane. I understand

00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:58.880
if people aren't super active in trying to find

00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:01.619
stuff. Like, they maybe just listen to what's

00:40:01.619 --> 00:40:04.480
on the radio or whatever. I get it. Not everybody

00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.039
has got the hyper -focused special interest.

00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:11.960
But people that are just like, oh, no, music

00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:15.219
just doesn't do anything for me. Insane. I'm

00:40:15.219 --> 00:40:17.159
like, are you? I feel like that's like a fundamental

00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:20.280
part of being human. I agree. I agree. I agree.

00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:24.039
Absolutely. This is why ChatGPT and AI -created

00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:28.579
music and art isn't art. Not to rant about, but

00:40:28.579 --> 00:40:31.659
it's true. It's stolen artwork. And even though

00:40:31.659 --> 00:40:33.739
I said, go trace, they're not tracing. They're

00:40:33.739 --> 00:40:35.679
not making anything new. They're not a person.

00:40:36.190 --> 00:40:39.769
Art, music, all that stuff are human commonalities.

00:40:39.769 --> 00:40:43.730
And there's no reality where a computer can create

00:40:43.730 --> 00:40:48.730
something. Well, it's removing... Even without

00:40:48.730 --> 00:40:52.429
trying to take sides on anything about it, just

00:40:52.429 --> 00:40:56.250
to be consistent with your view of art, AI removes

00:40:56.250 --> 00:40:59.610
what you view as the essential component of...

00:40:59.610 --> 00:41:02.170
If you just pump all of your influences into

00:41:02.170 --> 00:41:07.719
an algorithm, it's not... break i honestly i

00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.099
think i'm so over all over the place i just gonna

00:41:10.099 --> 00:41:15.519
be like what is it this no what did what does

00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:19.800
the process of going from like being paper artist

00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:24.940
canvas artist to a skin artist what is that like

00:41:24.940 --> 00:41:27.820
what is that process like like let's say somebody

00:41:27.820 --> 00:41:30.059
out there really wants to do this what would

00:41:30.059 --> 00:41:32.800
what are the steps to do it responsibly in the

00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:36.119
right way Oh man, this is going to get me some

00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:40.239
hate. This is the reality. Go get an apprenticeship

00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:42.820
at a shitty shop that hates you and abuses you.

00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:44.280
And I'm not saying that you have to suffer through

00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.260
the abuse. I'm just saying it's a commonality

00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:48.480
in the industry that the only people that take

00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:51.800
apprentices are dickheads. And a lot of people,

00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.880
they encounter that for the first time where

00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:55.780
they're doing their apprenticeships. Oh, my mentor's

00:41:55.780 --> 00:41:59.619
a dickhead. Yeah. Yes. Should you suffer through

00:41:59.619 --> 00:42:03.239
that? Learn as much as you can and then get out

00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:05.460
of there. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with it.

00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:09.019
It's serious business too, man. You're putting

00:42:09.019 --> 00:42:10.900
things on people that are going to be there for

00:42:10.900 --> 00:42:12.579
the rest of their life. Yeah. And you have to

00:42:12.579 --> 00:42:14.460
have a thick skin because if you can't deal with

00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:16.000
their mentor giving you shit, and I'm not saying

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:17.719
that they should like literally abuse you or

00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:20.139
anything. They're dickheads though. So is the

00:42:20.139 --> 00:42:22.960
general public. Yeah. It's almost like a trial

00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.260
by fire. Oh, and I'm sure you know that from

00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:27.699
comedy. You got to get up there and bomb. And

00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:29.599
if you're the kind of person that says you've

00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:32.849
never done a bad tattoo, you're lying. you're

00:42:32.849 --> 00:42:35.610
absolutely lying. You're full of shit. Yeah.

00:42:35.650 --> 00:42:38.730
If I had said I'd never bombed, everybody would

00:42:38.730 --> 00:42:41.250
know that I was full of shit. Exactly. Exactly.

00:42:41.369 --> 00:42:45.969
And that's the reality. I think that's really

00:42:45.969 --> 00:42:50.090
good advice because there are certain professions

00:42:50.090 --> 00:42:54.690
where you have to develop a thick skin. Yeah.

00:42:54.969 --> 00:42:59.369
And not every training program prepares you for

00:42:59.369 --> 00:43:03.039
that. Like I was saying earlier, I very commonly,

00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:05.199
very often get people that are trying to enter

00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:08.239
into the tattoo industry and, oh, I went to art

00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:09.559
school. I'm a good artist. Yeah, you're a good

00:43:09.559 --> 00:43:11.519
artist. You should have no problem finding a

00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:13.639
shitty apprenticeship. And that's the truth.

00:43:13.739 --> 00:43:15.820
And a lot of people want to skip to the end where

00:43:15.820 --> 00:43:19.880
they're fully developed. Part of the work is

00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.840
getting shit on. I hate to tell you that's the

00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:25.500
truth. I don't think you should have to suffer

00:43:25.500 --> 00:43:28.059
that. That's just the industry. I'm sorry. I

00:43:28.059 --> 00:43:30.440
think most comedians would say a similar thing

00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:34.150
about like, road work like going putting your

00:43:34.150 --> 00:43:36.829
stuff in front of different groups getting it

00:43:36.829 --> 00:43:40.349
shit all over yeah learning like what works and

00:43:40.349 --> 00:43:43.809
what doesn't organically yeah as opposed to like

00:43:43.809 --> 00:43:47.829
sitting in your room with your sketch pad and

00:43:47.829 --> 00:43:49.449
then all of a sudden i'm gonna go tattoo people

00:43:49.449 --> 00:43:52.030
like sitting in my room writing my jokes and

00:43:52.030 --> 00:43:53.610
then all of a sudden i'm gonna go record an hour

00:43:53.610 --> 00:43:56.510
yeah that doesn't happen yeah yeah it doesn't

00:43:57.179 --> 00:43:59.579
The same thing's true. I used to DJ back in the

00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:02.480
day. I started when I was 17. I did like weddings

00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:05.420
and house parties and events and stuff like that.

00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:08.820
And I was a bedroom DJ before that. And you're

00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:10.119
like, oh, this is going to work great. And then

00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:12.800
you get out there and it doesn't work. You put

00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:14.980
two songs together that you think are going to

00:44:14.980 --> 00:44:20.039
be bangers and no one reacts. That's the ultimate

00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.699
like feedback, immediate feedback, like almost

00:44:22.699 --> 00:44:26.059
as immediate or more so than comedy where it's.

00:44:26.489 --> 00:44:28.369
If they're not shaking their ass on the dance

00:44:28.369 --> 00:44:31.469
floor, it's not working. If they're not laughing,

00:44:31.530 --> 00:44:34.929
it's not working. Exactly. What's the metric

00:44:34.929 --> 00:44:38.650
for that with visual art? That's the anomalous

00:44:38.650 --> 00:44:43.849
part. Yeah. I don't know. You actually are making

00:44:43.849 --> 00:44:47.170
me rethink something that I've talked about before

00:44:47.170 --> 00:44:51.130
on here, where I've said that comedy is pretty

00:44:51.130 --> 00:44:56.019
unique in terms of it's subjective. but there's

00:44:56.019 --> 00:44:59.820
an objective response that's involuntary. And

00:44:59.820 --> 00:45:03.159
dancing, I think, is less involuntary than laughter.

00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:06.480
What do you mean? You can stop yourself from

00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.380
dancing a lot easier. I cannot, but that's okay.

00:45:08.579 --> 00:45:12.139
And I'm with you there, but I think... If you

00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:15.460
ever see me out, if there's a song that you can

00:45:15.460 --> 00:45:18.039
dance to, I will be shaking my ass. Sure, but

00:45:18.039 --> 00:45:21.440
the point I'm making, though, is... As a comedian,

00:45:21.699 --> 00:45:23.639
if you make somebody laugh at something they

00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:25.760
think they shouldn't laugh at, that's the ultimate

00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:28.840
victory, right? Oh, yeah, sure. And that's like

00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.539
a forced, involuntary response. It's weird. You're

00:45:32.539 --> 00:45:34.820
forcing a response on the audience that's not

00:45:34.820 --> 00:45:38.599
really their choice sometimes. And with dancing,

00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:41.519
it might be unique for people like me and you

00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:44.280
where I hear a song like, at least my toe is

00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.320
going to be tapping or something. But some people

00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.719
just... They just don't dance. And no matter

00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.179
how much somebody says, I'm not going to laugh

00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:56.099
at a comedy show, you can break through that.

00:45:57.019 --> 00:46:00.280
The right comedian can, yes. I don't know that

00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:02.500
you can break through that as a DJ to somebody

00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:05.420
that says, I'm not going to dance tonight. That's,

00:46:05.420 --> 00:46:07.800
I guess, that's the dynamic that it's a little

00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:10.800
less involuntary. Yeah, and the reality is some

00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.000
people are there to dance and some people are

00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:16.539
there to hang out. Yeah, yeah, sure. If your

00:46:16.539 --> 00:46:18.539
goal is to make people shake their fucking booties,

00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:22.059
play to them. Play to your audience. And it's

00:46:22.059 --> 00:46:24.039
the same with visual art and comedy. If some

00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:26.519
asshole in the back is like, this guy's not funny.

00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:30.300
I'm going to sit here and eat 25 wings and not

00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:32.500
crack a smile. There's somebody in the front

00:46:32.500 --> 00:46:35.019
row that's having a great time. Sure. I guess

00:46:35.019 --> 00:46:38.559
the point. So I think there's this spectrum that

00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:45.300
we've tapped into here. Where visual art. We'll

00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:47.960
just say visual art for the sake of this conversation.

00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:52.539
Just get back on topic. Visual art's on one end.

00:46:52.739 --> 00:46:55.699
Comedy's kind of on the other. DJing is somewhere

00:46:55.699 --> 00:46:59.139
in the middle. I agree. The response that you're

00:46:59.139 --> 00:47:03.300
trying to evoke from the audience is so much

00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:06.880
more autonomous when it comes to visual art.

00:47:07.340 --> 00:47:10.380
And it slowly becomes less autonomous. You get

00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:13.059
into DJing. You're going to get some people to

00:47:13.059 --> 00:47:15.119
shake their ass even if they're maybe in a bad

00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:18.440
mood when they get there. But with comedy, the

00:47:18.440 --> 00:47:21.000
other end of the spectrum, you can make the dude

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.099
that's going to sit there and eat 25 wings and

00:47:24.099 --> 00:47:26.480
not crack a smile, if you make the right joke,

00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:29.239
you're going to make him laugh because laughter

00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:32.539
is an involuntary response in a way that dancing

00:47:32.539 --> 00:47:35.900
isn't or admiration isn't. And some people aren't

00:47:35.900 --> 00:47:39.239
active listeners, active viewers, so that guy

00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:42.070
isn't even fucking listening to you. He's probably

00:47:42.070 --> 00:47:45.170
not going to laugh. Sure, sure. And that's the

00:47:45.170 --> 00:47:49.090
difference between doing comedy in a bar and

00:47:49.090 --> 00:47:53.809
a comedy club. Yes, that's true. So I did the

00:47:53.809 --> 00:47:57.010
gallery scene in town for a while, and you put

00:47:57.010 --> 00:47:59.489
yourself out there, and you have to be there

00:47:59.489 --> 00:48:02.590
because you are doing the same thing where you're

00:48:02.590 --> 00:48:05.429
judging reactions, right? So I'd be standing

00:48:05.429 --> 00:48:08.070
there, and somebody would come up to their friend,

00:48:08.250 --> 00:48:11.289
and they're like, oh, man, fuck. It's like they're

00:48:11.289 --> 00:48:14.469
not reacting the way that I wanted them to. It

00:48:14.469 --> 00:48:16.949
is what it is. And that's part of it. It doesn't

00:48:16.949 --> 00:48:18.429
work for everybody. And when you put yourself

00:48:18.429 --> 00:48:22.889
out there, it's a numbers game. So how long were

00:48:22.889 --> 00:48:28.570
you an apprentice? What's the path here for you

00:48:28.570 --> 00:48:33.050
in terms of time frame from, okay, I've found

00:48:33.050 --> 00:48:37.030
a way to commodify my art in a trade. I'm starting

00:48:37.030 --> 00:48:40.349
an apprenticeship, whatever. to now you're a

00:48:40.349 --> 00:48:43.269
full -time artist what was that time frame what

00:48:43.269 --> 00:48:44.869
was that what did that road look like for you

00:48:44.869 --> 00:48:49.269
oh i to be honest it was survival again i you

00:48:49.269 --> 00:48:53.769
work in a shop and you try to take on stuff that

00:48:53.769 --> 00:48:57.449
you are confident in and you i did lettering

00:48:57.449 --> 00:49:00.329
for basically almost two years almost exclusively

00:49:00.329 --> 00:49:02.449
lettering and like really simple pinterest tattoos

00:49:02.449 --> 00:49:06.219
it was just a Get as much time in skin as possible.

00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:08.579
And a lot of people, they get annoyed by Pinterest

00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:11.420
tattoos or slot names on people. It's actually

00:49:11.420 --> 00:49:15.719
really important to the process of because there

00:49:15.719 --> 00:49:18.619
is a person on the other end of it. And you are

00:49:18.619 --> 00:49:21.239
trying to do like high art and you don't know

00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.380
how to put it in skin. You're going to fuck them

00:49:23.380 --> 00:49:25.039
up. They're going to have a bad time. They're

00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:26.420
going to have a bad time. And you're going to

00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:28.599
lose clients before you get it. I love looking

00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:30.659
at bad tattoos. Oh, yeah. It's one of my favorite.

00:49:31.550 --> 00:49:34.710
i'm really into well done bad tattoos if that

00:49:34.710 --> 00:49:37.670
makes sense yeah i'll show you a tattoo actually

00:49:37.670 --> 00:49:39.769
we're like the art's good but the concept is

00:49:39.769 --> 00:49:41.690
just it's like my favorite tattoos do you know

00:49:41.690 --> 00:49:44.869
what sucky panther is i don't it's a really shitty

00:49:44.869 --> 00:49:48.210
tattoo and so i got a chrome sucky panther it's

00:49:48.210 --> 00:49:51.130
hilarious and well at least it's like somewhere

00:49:51.130 --> 00:49:53.769
that nobody's looking at the back of your upper

00:49:53.769 --> 00:49:58.349
calf it's fun and i show it to people like what

00:49:58.349 --> 00:50:01.539
the fuck is that don't worry I think also you

00:50:01.539 --> 00:50:04.920
get to a certain point where maybe you probably

00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:07.420
have a lot of insight into this. What is the

00:50:07.420 --> 00:50:12.039
difference in the mentality of a client who has

00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:16.079
two or three tattoos and the mentality of a client

00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:21.800
who has sleeves and is covered? I'm not even

00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:24.639
talking like face tattoos, but just a heavily

00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:26.719
tattooed individual versus somebody who just

00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:30.619
has a few. runs the game. It's all over the place.

00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:32.239
And just because you're heavily tattooed doesn't

00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:34.579
mean that you're a good client or you know what

00:50:34.579 --> 00:50:36.900
you're talking about. It happens a lot. Because

00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:38.420
you could have a sleeve full of shitty tattoos.

00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:41.619
And that could be your... Oh, I paid $80. Yeah,

00:50:41.739 --> 00:50:44.019
I can tell. And then you get people with two

00:50:44.019 --> 00:50:46.059
or three tattoos. They know exactly what they

00:50:46.059 --> 00:50:48.960
want. I want this. Okay, I can do that. Fine.

00:50:49.699 --> 00:50:53.219
Is it creative? No. You're easy to work with,

00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.280
though. I want block lettering of this thing.

00:50:56.559 --> 00:50:59.119
And a lot of people... They want a tattoo and

00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:01.760
they spend so much time thinking about it that

00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:03.880
they haven't bothered to actually talk to an

00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:07.159
artist about their ideas. So they keep like editing

00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:08.900
things. Oh, I want this thing to represent my

00:51:08.900 --> 00:51:11.500
grandma with a lion with blue eyes and like a

00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:14.239
clock to be like Memento Mori. It becomes a mural.

00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:21.659
Yeah. It's like the lion clock rose. It's a trope

00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:26.139
now. It's a joke for tattooers. I bet you want

00:51:26.139 --> 00:51:28.349
a lion with a clock and a rose. oh yep there

00:51:28.349 --> 00:51:31.469
it is you can tell the type too and we people

00:51:31.469 --> 00:51:33.429
come in you're like oh i want this i knew you

00:51:33.429 --> 00:51:35.050
wanted that before you even walked in the door

00:51:35.050 --> 00:51:38.570
yeah tell yeah yeah i used to be the same way

00:51:38.570 --> 00:51:40.469
at the record store like i could there were certain

00:51:40.469 --> 00:51:42.690
people like i knew exactly what they were walking

00:51:42.690 --> 00:51:44.949
in to buy based on just like what had come out

00:51:44.949 --> 00:51:47.489
that week i was like oh i know like three of

00:51:47.489 --> 00:51:50.590
the albums you're picking up yeah yep on the

00:51:50.590 --> 00:51:54.599
kind of the thread of bad tattoos what are This

00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:56.440
is a two -parter. What are some things that you

00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:59.280
would never have to, whether you've encountered

00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.420
them yet or not, you would never do it? And then

00:52:02.420 --> 00:52:04.199
do you have a couple of things that you have

00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:08.420
said no to that might be fun to share? Oh, yeah,

00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:10.599
there's a bunch of things I say no to. I don't

00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:14.920
really think I'm very good at realism as an artist.

00:52:15.340 --> 00:52:18.420
Let me back up. And we can talk about your limitations

00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:21.539
as an artist. That's not the question I'm asking

00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:25.989
now. I'm asking, like... conceptually or if somebody

00:52:25.989 --> 00:52:28.389
comes in with a terrible motif or an idea for

00:52:28.389 --> 00:52:33.030
what would you refuse a client even if you thought

00:52:33.030 --> 00:52:36.090
the artwork was within your realm you're just

00:52:36.090 --> 00:52:37.869
like i'm not putting that on another person's

00:52:37.869 --> 00:52:40.250
body obviously things like white supremacy shit

00:52:40.250 --> 00:52:42.690
and all that like a lot of tattoo artists well

00:52:42.690 --> 00:52:45.989
yeah i'm not gang related so every week like

00:52:45.989 --> 00:52:48.570
this is a gang tattoo i have a web on my elbow

00:52:48.570 --> 00:52:50.610
and as soon as i got it i heard somebody's like

00:52:50.610 --> 00:52:52.989
hey do that in prison it's like They do everything

00:52:52.989 --> 00:52:56.050
in prison. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Are you

00:52:56.050 --> 00:52:59.150
wearing a Chicago Bulls jersey? Oh, yeah. You

00:52:59.150 --> 00:53:02.250
got blue on today? Yeah. So here's a funny story.

00:53:02.550 --> 00:53:05.710
I've made clients cry before. I'm not surprised.

00:53:06.769 --> 00:53:09.989
Because sometimes if you softball people, they'll

00:53:09.989 --> 00:53:11.550
walk all over you. And sometimes you have to

00:53:11.550 --> 00:53:13.570
have that hard line. I am absolutely not doing

00:53:13.570 --> 00:53:15.210
that. You have to have hard boundaries in life,

00:53:15.309 --> 00:53:17.550
period, I think, to be successful. And I think

00:53:17.550 --> 00:53:19.969
people get excited. They're like, I'm getting

00:53:19.969 --> 00:53:22.219
a tattoo. I'm like, no, you're not. Somebody

00:53:22.219 --> 00:53:24.619
came in, I tattooed them before and they had

00:53:24.619 --> 00:53:28.280
a crazy idea and they were being really mousy

00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:30.860
and not describing what they wanted. And so I

00:53:30.860 --> 00:53:33.800
was sitting there trying to figure out what they

00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:36.440
wanted and I felt like I was putting words in

00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:40.360
their mouth. And what they wanted wasn't, I couldn't

00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:42.699
conceptualize it. And I sat there and I drew

00:53:42.699 --> 00:53:44.219
it and they were like, oh yeah, that's it. I

00:53:44.219 --> 00:53:46.159
was like, I'm not doing that. I sat there and

00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:48.920
drew it on the spot and oh yeah, that's it. I

00:53:48.920 --> 00:53:51.079
was like, absolutely not. This is the worst idea

00:53:51.079 --> 00:53:53.360
I've ever heard. I told him it was strange. And

00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:55.619
then the next day, I saw a Facebook post like,

00:53:55.699 --> 00:53:58.280
this tattoo artist said my idea was strange.

00:53:58.400 --> 00:53:59.920
I've never had a tattoo artist say that before.

00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:02.500
This is your second tattoo. What do you mean

00:54:02.500 --> 00:54:04.539
you've never had a tattoo artist say that before?

00:54:05.099 --> 00:54:07.699
And I walked away from that. And my boss was

00:54:07.699 --> 00:54:09.400
like, good on you for not taking. That was a

00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:11.840
terrible idea. I was like, I know. And then they

00:54:11.840 --> 00:54:14.360
went out and they paid $80 to some random dude

00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:16.340
to do it. And it looked exactly how I thought

00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:19.739
it would. Yeah. They were happy with it. And

00:54:19.739 --> 00:54:22.579
that's fine, but you don't want your name attached

00:54:22.579 --> 00:54:25.980
to that. Yeah, I do not. And just because somebody's

00:54:25.980 --> 00:54:28.460
willing to give a back alley kidney transplant

00:54:28.460 --> 00:54:32.000
doesn't mean you should be the one to perform

00:54:32.000 --> 00:54:35.079
it. Some advice for people that are interested

00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:38.039
in getting tattooed, limit your ideas. You get

00:54:38.039 --> 00:54:40.860
two or three things in a tattoo. In a single

00:54:40.860 --> 00:54:43.219
tattoo, you get two or three ideas. I've never

00:54:43.219 --> 00:54:45.139
tried to put more than one idea into a tattoo.

00:54:45.260 --> 00:54:48.550
Well, it can be loose. i don't know i was inspired

00:54:48.550 --> 00:54:50.469
by american werewolf in london for this and i

00:54:50.469 --> 00:54:52.070
told him that i wanted the banner from it and

00:54:52.070 --> 00:54:55.610
he didn't draw that and it is bad better for

00:54:55.610 --> 00:55:00.989
that yeah yeah it's badass so let artists cook

00:55:00.989 --> 00:55:05.449
yeah going with an idea i say i want a wolf with

00:55:05.449 --> 00:55:07.769
an axe through its face and like a banner and

00:55:07.769 --> 00:55:10.110
then he doesn't draw the banner there's a reason

00:55:10.110 --> 00:55:11.210
he didn't draw the banner because it's going

00:55:11.210 --> 00:55:15.820
to cover up the badass wolf what's one of Will

00:55:15.820 --> 00:55:18.659
you talk about one of the bad tattoos that you've

00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:22.940
given? Yeah, I can. So a lot of times people

00:55:22.940 --> 00:55:26.300
get excited about getting tattooed and that they

00:55:26.300 --> 00:55:32.360
forget to check spelling. Yeah, yeah. So this

00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:36.500
dude came in and he wanted some Spanish phrase

00:55:36.500 --> 00:55:39.199
and I don't speak Spanish. I said, hey, and he

00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:42.440
did fluently speak Spanish. I said, make sure

00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:44.300
it's spelled right, blah, blah, blah. He's like,

00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:46.739
oh, cool. So I tattooed it on him. And then an

00:55:46.739 --> 00:55:49.179
hour later, he calls and says, it's spelled wrong.

00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:51.880
What can we do about that? Nothing right now,

00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:55.539
man. Man, I have a tattoo in Greek. And I went

00:55:55.539 --> 00:56:00.760
to my classics professor and was like, give me

00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:06.719
this. And I was like, and it's in all caps. So

00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:09.079
it's not even like grammatic. It's not how it

00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:12.400
would have been written. But it's what I wanted

00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:15.199
and it's accurate based on what I wanted. And

00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:18.280
that's what I went to me. And I was like, dude,

00:56:18.440 --> 00:56:22.619
just he pulled up the font of Greek. That's cool.

00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:25.880
And typed it out for me and printed it. And that's

00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:27.800
what I took to the shop. Yeah. A lot of times

00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:30.059
people come in and they want Japanese and they'll

00:56:30.059 --> 00:56:32.679
go on Google Translate. And there'll be like

00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:35.300
some biblical phrase or something like that.

00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:38.760
That's no reality where it's going to translate.

00:56:39.340 --> 00:56:41.760
And they'll type it into Google. And I'll put

00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:44.360
it on. I want this. There's no way that's right.

00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:47.079
And I try to advise them, go on Reddit, try to

00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:49.579
find somebody that's can translate what you want

00:56:49.579 --> 00:56:52.619
for you as close as possible, because I doubt

00:56:52.619 --> 00:56:55.099
this says what you think it says. I want it.

00:56:55.119 --> 00:56:58.699
OK, whatever. I do my due diligence. Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:01.079
You're like, I'm not a linguist. I'm not. That's

00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:06.719
not. That's not my cards. So what are some of

00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:09.159
the things that you would like if you could go

00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:12.739
back and like. redo some stuff. What are some

00:57:12.739 --> 00:57:15.679
lessons? Let me couch this a little differently.

00:57:15.820 --> 00:57:17.599
What are some lessons that you've learned over

00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:21.599
the years that have, that might help a new tattoo

00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:24.699
artist or somebody or a new artist? Because I

00:57:24.699 --> 00:57:28.139
think it is pretty rare to, not that there's

00:57:28.139 --> 00:57:29.800
not a lot of tattoo artists out there, but I

00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:33.280
think it's pretty rare for someone to just be

00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:35.500
like, okay, this is what I have to do. I'm going

00:57:35.500 --> 00:57:39.780
to do it and fuck all everything else. I think

00:57:39.780 --> 00:57:41.579
there's a lot of people out there that have that

00:57:41.579 --> 00:57:43.320
burning desire, but they don't know how to go

00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:46.960
about it. The desire is the first step. That's

00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:49.800
it. If you got that, take the leap of faith.

00:57:50.260 --> 00:57:52.659
Put yourself out there. And like every other

00:57:52.659 --> 00:57:54.239
day, there's a new apprentice. There's a new

00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:56.980
tattooer in town. There's a new shop, which means

00:57:56.980 --> 00:57:58.619
there's tons of opportunities for you to learn.

00:57:59.179 --> 00:58:01.659
You're going to have to go out there, put yourself

00:58:01.659 --> 00:58:04.539
out there and get shit on. It's okay. Other than

00:58:04.539 --> 00:58:09.380
like a mentor. an apprenticeship situation where

00:58:09.380 --> 00:58:13.019
you're getting, how have you made sure to not

00:58:13.019 --> 00:58:15.639
surround yourself with yes people and like people

00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:17.719
that will make sure to tell you when something

00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:21.559
sucks, when something's a bad idea and maybe

00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:25.019
not just in art, but in life. I think one of

00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:28.199
the big problems that we're seeing with this

00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:33.880
kind of arrogance, this like blissful, like intentional,

00:58:34.019 --> 00:58:38.630
but like this. like arrogantly stupid arrogantly

00:58:38.630 --> 00:58:42.389
ignorant mentality that we see in this country

00:58:42.389 --> 00:58:47.150
is because people surround themselves with they

00:58:47.150 --> 00:58:51.929
cut out all dissent all like anybody that tells

00:58:51.929 --> 00:58:54.730
them that they're not doing a great job at everything

00:58:54.730 --> 00:58:58.909
fuck you i'm done or oh we disagree about this

00:58:58.909 --> 00:59:01.710
thing well we're not friends anymore like how

00:59:01.710 --> 00:59:03.989
have you been able in this like climate that

00:59:03.989 --> 00:59:07.110
we've been in the last 20 years, I feel, been

00:59:07.110 --> 00:59:10.570
able to surround yourself with people that don't

00:59:10.570 --> 00:59:13.429
always tell you that you're fucking amazing all

00:59:13.429 --> 00:59:16.869
the time. To me personally, if you tell me I'm

00:59:16.869 --> 00:59:20.510
amazing, I don't believe you. I don't. That's

00:59:20.510 --> 00:59:24.210
a me problem. I'm my worst critic. And there's

00:59:24.210 --> 00:59:26.949
nothing you can say to me that will hurt my feelings

00:59:26.949 --> 00:59:28.829
more than I'm going to hurt my own feelings.

00:59:29.210 --> 00:59:33.320
That's it. I think that's true for me too. I

00:59:33.320 --> 00:59:35.719
think a lot of people that are passionate feel

00:59:35.719 --> 00:59:39.219
that way. Some more than others. Don't let it

00:59:39.219 --> 00:59:42.500
stop you, though. Just because you're your worst

00:59:42.500 --> 00:59:44.920
critic doesn't mean that what you're making isn't

00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:47.820
worth it. So it's almost like the opposite. It's

00:59:47.820 --> 00:59:50.340
almost like you have to surround yourself with

00:59:50.340 --> 00:59:54.159
people that encourage you. Yes. And I'm not in

00:59:54.159 --> 01:00:00.619
a position where your support, thank you. Yeah,

01:00:00.619 --> 01:00:03.469
yeah. I don't believe it, though. It's fake.

01:00:03.789 --> 01:00:08.710
And yet again, that's a me issue. Yeah. Obviously,

01:00:08.849 --> 01:00:13.429
you know that you have talent to the point where

01:00:13.429 --> 01:00:17.489
you were able to be confident enough to quit

01:00:17.489 --> 01:00:21.449
your job and dive in. You literally just needed

01:00:21.449 --> 01:00:24.090
permission to do it, almost. Yeah, I actually

01:00:24.090 --> 01:00:28.079
didn't think that I was... Worth it. I just I

01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.000
knew it was something I wanted to do and when

01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:32.800
you put the your position you're You put yourself

01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:35.380
in the position where you have to do this thing

01:00:35.380 --> 01:00:37.719
or else you're not gonna be able to eat What

01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:41.280
choice do you have? Yeah What you have to do

01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:44.579
this you have to figure it out. So over the years

01:00:44.579 --> 01:00:48.380
like getting into tattooing have you found that

01:00:48.380 --> 01:00:52.280
brought a boost to your like Your gallery sales

01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.079
and things like that to know It was never successful

01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:57.860
in gallery spaces. Part of it is because Tallahassee

01:00:57.860 --> 01:01:00.739
just isn't the scene for that. A lot of people,

01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:02.239
when they become artists, musicians, they move

01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:06.000
to real cities like New York or L .A. or whatever.

01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:09.139
And I guess in comedy, it's Austin now, too,

01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:15.000
right? The thing about Austin is it has completely...

01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:19.099
I don't think that I can say anything better

01:01:19.099 --> 01:01:21.639
than Mark Maron has already said. Personally,

01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:24.500
I think he hit the nail on the head. The left

01:01:24.500 --> 01:01:27.179
annoyed the average American into fascism is

01:01:27.179 --> 01:01:30.420
like what he said. But also the response to that

01:01:30.420 --> 01:01:36.880
has been ruining comedy. Like, I think that anybody

01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:38.679
can get away with saying pretty much anything

01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:42.500
on stage if it's funny enough. I actually agree

01:01:42.500 --> 01:01:45.340
with you on that. And this idea that, oh, we

01:01:45.340 --> 01:01:48.219
can't like comedies. We can't say anything anymore.

01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:51.099
That's bullshit. And you're being lazy. Yeah,

01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.539
they're being lazy and they're just not funny

01:01:53.539 --> 01:01:57.760
enough to say those things. I agree 100%. I think

01:01:57.760 --> 01:02:02.980
if you look at some of Louis C .K.'s older material,

01:02:03.059 --> 01:02:06.119
like before any of the scandal or anything, he

01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:09.860
was a master at saying shit he shouldn't say

01:02:09.860 --> 01:02:13.159
and making it objectively hilarious. Yeah, I

01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:18.210
agree. And you look at people... And there's

01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:20.809
some good comics out of the Austin scene. Don't

01:02:20.809 --> 01:02:23.230
get me wrong. I like some of those guys. But

01:02:23.230 --> 01:02:26.210
I think the overall philosophy there that we

01:02:26.210 --> 01:02:30.590
have to be offensive to be funny or that... Punching

01:02:30.590 --> 01:02:34.110
down. It's not even necessarily that. I think

01:02:34.110 --> 01:02:37.469
the spirit in which they punch down most of the

01:02:37.469 --> 01:02:40.829
time is not malicious. But it is lazy. It's lazy.

01:02:40.989 --> 01:02:44.840
Yep. It is fucking lazy. Yeah. And... And most

01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:47.380
of the time it's just like a rewording of a joke

01:02:47.380 --> 01:02:50.539
that's been around for a hundred years. I identify

01:02:50.539 --> 01:02:53.179
as an attack helicopter. How many times have

01:02:53.179 --> 01:02:57.139
you heard that on stage? Yeah. Or just name the

01:02:57.139 --> 01:02:59.960
racist trope or the sexist trope or the whatever.

01:03:00.059 --> 01:03:04.179
Like it's just all been done, dude. Even if like

01:03:04.179 --> 01:03:08.219
you put the like tastelessness aside, like none

01:03:08.219 --> 01:03:11.119
of those jokes are original. Yes. That's what

01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:14.079
it really comes down to. If you want to be able

01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:17.260
to say certain things on stage, be fucking funnier.

01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:21.300
Yeah, I agree. And I think that's true for...

01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:26.800
Dude, look at a group like Kneecap. Okay. The

01:03:26.800 --> 01:03:30.320
musical group out of the north of Ireland. Don't

01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:32.219
get me wrong. They've had their share of political

01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:35.360
persecution over the things they say. But their

01:03:35.360 --> 01:03:39.800
music is fucking banging. And so, like, they're...

01:03:39.980 --> 01:03:42.079
No matter what the persecution is, they're still

01:03:42.079 --> 01:03:46.639
selling out arenas. Yeah. So just to shift topics

01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:50.139
a little bit. So there's this huge, during cancel

01:03:50.139 --> 01:03:53.219
culture or whatever, there's this huge push about

01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:56.139
separating the art from the artists. And the

01:03:56.139 --> 01:03:58.860
people that were saying that were dickhead artists

01:03:58.860 --> 01:04:01.480
that were being canceled. Sure. Obviously not

01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:03.500
everything you do that's like a little cringy

01:04:03.500 --> 01:04:05.760
needs to be canceled or whatever. But on the

01:04:05.760 --> 01:04:07.539
other hand, like I still listen to Michael Jackson.

01:04:07.699 --> 01:04:10.210
Yeah. Because he makes good music. Right. He

01:04:10.210 --> 01:04:13.289
made good music. There are certain alive people

01:04:13.289 --> 01:04:15.269
that are absolute problems in the community.

01:04:15.409 --> 01:04:17.070
I will not fuck with them. I won't buy anything

01:04:17.070 --> 01:04:18.869
from them. Sure. I just don't want to support

01:04:18.869 --> 01:04:23.349
their lifestyle. But at the same time, oh man,

01:04:23.409 --> 01:04:25.329
I forgot where I was going with that. You were

01:04:25.329 --> 01:04:28.050
talking about not wanting to mess with these

01:04:28.050 --> 01:04:31.150
problematic artists, but in support of their

01:04:31.150 --> 01:04:33.090
lifestyle. Separating the art from the artist.

01:04:33.190 --> 01:04:36.090
I think it's something that problematic people

01:04:36.090 --> 01:04:40.579
like to hide behind. Like when I don't, yes,

01:04:40.719 --> 01:04:44.380
there is. You have to separate like Picasso from

01:04:44.380 --> 01:04:47.880
his art. He is his art though. You can't really

01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:50.599
separate him from his art. You can't do that.

01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:54.139
You can do it mentally to do the backflips that

01:04:54.139 --> 01:04:57.059
you need to do to consume his art. And Picasso

01:04:57.059 --> 01:04:58.840
is fucking dead. So what do I fucking care? Like

01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:00.760
he has an estate or whatever, but it's living

01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:03.079
people. I'm not going to separate you from your

01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:08.239
artwork. Yeah, I feel that. I like I think like

01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:10.500
J .K. Rowling could be a good example. Yeah,

01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:13.519
exactly. And I refuse to I'm not going to fuck

01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:15.519
with you. I'm sorry. I go to Universal every

01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:19.260
year. There's nothing I can do about Harry Potter

01:05:19.260 --> 01:05:22.360
land. Sure. And she's a bajillionaire. So, yeah,

01:05:22.420 --> 01:05:25.599
it's past the point of my control. But living

01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:28.119
people without our fucking problems, stay away

01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:30.079
from them. And you don't have to separate their

01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:32.400
art from. the artist that's what they want you

01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:34.260
to do so that you'll buy their art again but

01:05:34.260 --> 01:05:38.420
i don't think that you i don't think that not

01:05:38.420 --> 01:05:40.579
separating the art from the artist means that

01:05:40.579 --> 01:05:44.320
you have to stop listening to that artist or

01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:47.519
watching that artist or whatever too like i think

01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:51.780
that there's this idea of sanitizing everything

01:05:51.780 --> 01:05:54.719
to where yeah yep oh we're not going to consume

01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:58.159
art from problematic people that's what happened

01:05:58.159 --> 01:06:01.420
recently is a good example of that the politically

01:06:01.420 --> 01:06:05.099
oh with Kimmel or whatever oh I meant Charlie

01:06:05.099 --> 01:06:06.900
Kirk oh yeah I don't really want to talk about

01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:09.659
it we can yeah yeah I don't we don't necessarily

01:06:09.659 --> 01:06:12.360
but that's a good example is like no I will not

01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:18.039
separate sure yeah right and like the idea that

01:06:18.039 --> 01:06:20.900
you can't like talk truthfully about someone

01:06:20.900 --> 01:06:23.219
just because they were like killed in a horrible

01:06:23.219 --> 01:06:29.719
way yep is like that's yeah absurd yeah And that's

01:06:29.719 --> 01:06:32.519
exactly what I'm getting at. You can acknowledge

01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:34.420
that somebody was a great artist and a shitty

01:06:34.420 --> 01:06:37.320
person and still appreciate their art and still

01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:41.079
condemn them as a human being. Yes. And that

01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:44.300
context matters. I think it's the only thing.

01:06:44.440 --> 01:06:47.159
I think it's way more important than just pretending

01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:49.480
they never existed or their art didn't matter.

01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:52.199
It turns into Voldemort at some point where you

01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:54.840
can't say their name because it gives them power

01:06:54.840 --> 01:07:01.650
or something. That's dumb. I was talking to the

01:07:01.650 --> 01:07:03.690
lead singer of a band called Czar, which was

01:07:03.690 --> 01:07:07.050
a band that I loved as a teenager. And he was

01:07:07.050 --> 01:07:10.510
raised in a pretty conservative Christian household.

01:07:11.250 --> 01:07:14.789
And what he said was like, the condemnation of

01:07:14.789 --> 01:07:19.329
rock and roll gave it this power that made it

01:07:19.329 --> 01:07:21.750
attractive to him. It was like, why is this?

01:07:21.769 --> 01:07:24.710
You mean like devil worship shit? Yeah. But it

01:07:24.710 --> 01:07:27.860
was like, this is... I think you and I can recognize

01:07:27.860 --> 01:07:31.719
the power of music. And then to have it through

01:07:31.719 --> 01:07:34.940
this lens of Satanism makes it almost like supernatural.

01:07:35.500 --> 01:07:39.780
Yeah. And so he's this kid. It's like the rock

01:07:39.780 --> 01:07:43.219
and roll mythos. Right. You're doing more for

01:07:43.219 --> 01:07:46.539
rock than you are by condemning it and calling

01:07:46.539 --> 01:07:49.579
it like satanic or whatever. Yeah. You're pointing

01:07:49.579 --> 01:07:52.699
out its power without. without really understanding

01:07:52.699 --> 01:07:55.119
what it comes from but the other thing that happened

01:07:55.119 --> 01:07:57.960
from the satanic i play a lot of dungeons and

01:07:57.960 --> 01:08:00.480
dragons yeah yeah and it is a huge source of

01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:05.840
my inspiration as like an artist as a human being

01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:08.159
i fucking love it in fact i brought one of my

01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:11.119
d and my idea let's before before we wrap this

01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:13.539
up let's show let's dive in and show some of

01:08:13.539 --> 01:08:16.880
your art so earlier we talked about before we

01:08:16.880 --> 01:08:20.119
started rolling covid yeah that's right quarantine

01:08:20.119 --> 01:08:24.500
and We were saying how a lot of people were having

01:08:24.500 --> 01:08:27.100
the... They were locked in their house and they're

01:08:27.100 --> 01:08:28.960
used to going to their day job and doing that

01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:31.960
and they get depressed. It was hard on the normies,

01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:34.279
man. Turned alcoholics or whatever. Yeah, the

01:08:34.279 --> 01:08:37.359
normies did not cope. And because I have a studio

01:08:37.359 --> 01:08:40.899
art background, I loved it. I locked myself in

01:08:40.899 --> 01:08:44.380
my room and I painted all day, every day. So

01:08:44.380 --> 01:08:47.840
when I was in school... Most artists of all kinds

01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:50.869
except for comedians. but it's still a lot of

01:08:50.869 --> 01:08:54.029
really got a lot out of it i mean that because

01:08:54.029 --> 01:08:56.909
i was following a lot of music scene guy too

01:08:56.909 --> 01:08:59.609
but there was a lot of artists that were streaming

01:08:59.609 --> 01:09:02.409
their music and i talked to a couple of guys

01:09:02.409 --> 01:09:05.189
that they didn't start making music or recording

01:09:05.189 --> 01:09:08.989
their own music until covid oh cool because they're

01:09:08.989 --> 01:09:11.250
working their house yeah yeah or like this one

01:09:11.250 --> 01:09:13.569
guy who actually sloan who did the theme song

01:09:13.569 --> 01:09:17.529
for the podcast he recorded live shows that's

01:09:17.529 --> 01:09:20.560
what he would take Or recording gear, and that

01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:22.720
was his thing. He would record live shows all

01:09:22.720 --> 01:09:25.800
the time. Then when COVID hit, he was like, shit,

01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:27.600
I don't have anything to record. What else are

01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:29.800
you going to do? Yeah, so he started making records.

01:09:30.020 --> 01:09:32.199
Yeah. When I was in school, everyone taught oil,

01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:35.359
and I had no experience with oils. And I was

01:09:35.359 --> 01:09:37.039
terrible at them, and I'd walk into class, like,

01:09:37.100 --> 01:09:38.939
hey, is it cool if I watercolor? And some teachers

01:09:38.939 --> 01:09:41.039
were cool with it, and some weren't. So when

01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:42.619
COVID hit, I was like, I'm going to learn this

01:09:42.619 --> 01:09:45.159
now. So I started watching Bob Ross, which sounds

01:09:45.159 --> 01:09:48.449
funny, but I... Start with the basics. Yeah,

01:09:48.489 --> 01:09:52.210
of course. And Bob, like we were talking about,

01:09:52.350 --> 01:09:55.329
came from the St. Augustine area. But then he

01:09:55.329 --> 01:09:57.090
moved to Alaska, so he does a lot of mountains.

01:09:57.270 --> 01:09:59.130
And I'm from Florida. I don't know shit about

01:09:59.130 --> 01:10:00.390
mountains. I don't know what they look like.

01:10:00.430 --> 01:10:04.069
It's not day -to -day for me. So I took a lot

01:10:04.069 --> 01:10:07.430
of Bob Ross lessons and applied them to landscapes

01:10:07.430 --> 01:10:10.390
that I'm familiar with. And this is the influence

01:10:10.390 --> 01:10:12.970
going through the filter of a human being that

01:10:12.970 --> 01:10:14.350
we're talking about. Yeah, exactly. So I wrote

01:10:14.350 --> 01:10:17.170
one of my oil paintings. Hell yeah. and if you

01:10:17.170 --> 01:10:18.810
want to you can hold it up but what we'll do

01:10:18.810 --> 01:10:21.390
is we'll also put like a i'll put like the actual

01:10:21.390 --> 01:10:24.149
image that yeah there's the camera there and

01:10:24.149 --> 01:10:26.489
and i'll put a scan of it over this but that'll

01:10:26.489 --> 01:10:28.670
give me a good reference for which what thing

01:10:28.670 --> 01:10:31.750
we're talking about i like mopey gray landscape

01:10:31.750 --> 01:10:36.229
i also grew up surfing and i I used to surf hurricanes

01:10:36.229 --> 01:10:38.489
and stuff like that, which, if you're not from

01:10:38.489 --> 01:10:40.390
here, sounds crazy. Oh, no. It's very normal.

01:10:40.510 --> 01:10:43.210
My friend Warren in grad school, like, he would

01:10:43.210 --> 01:10:46.130
be, like, it'd be, like, October. He'd be pulling

01:10:46.130 --> 01:10:48.529
up. He was our meteorologist, first of all. Like,

01:10:48.569 --> 01:10:51.770
surfers are the most, like, accurate amateur

01:10:51.770 --> 01:10:54.970
meteorologist I've ever known. Yep. And it's,

01:10:54.970 --> 01:10:58.079
especially on the Gulf, dude, like. You have

01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:00.239
to know when the shit's coming. Yeah. Because

01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:02.399
like on a regular day, it's not really worth

01:11:02.399 --> 01:11:05.180
it. So, yeah, I really took to painting. Surfing

01:11:05.180 --> 01:11:09.000
hurricanes does sound fucking insane. It's not

01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:12.180
like you're out like on. No, it's usually like

01:11:12.180 --> 01:11:14.500
a couple of days before. Yeah. Or the hurricanes

01:11:14.500 --> 01:11:16.199
way out there. Yeah. Throwing shit your way.

01:11:16.340 --> 01:11:18.239
So you just go out and hit it. And I was like

01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.619
12 or 13 or something the first time I did it.

01:11:20.659 --> 01:11:23.619
And we were surfing 15 foot wave by ourselves.

01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:26.239
That's wild. I think there's one other person

01:11:26.239 --> 01:11:29.380
out there and it's a day like that. That's awesome.

01:11:29.659 --> 01:11:32.239
And I just, I love scenery like that. Mostly

01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:35.340
because I'm a mopey person. I enjoy that stuff.

01:11:35.380 --> 01:11:39.880
I find solace in ugly sceneries. Yeah. But I'll

01:11:39.880 --> 01:11:41.640
also point out like when you're talking about

01:11:41.640 --> 01:11:44.920
your art, you light up in a way that like is

01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:48.119
not, I think consistent with the rest of your

01:11:48.119 --> 01:11:51.819
personality sometimes. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So during

01:11:51.819 --> 01:11:55.840
COVID we started. dnding a lot and i started

01:11:55.840 --> 01:12:00.119
putting a lot of time into writing and yeah i

01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:04.979
wrote this by hand the hard way everything is

01:12:04.979 --> 01:12:08.600
you can't none of this stuff exists in dnd books

01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:11.619
everything is homebrewed everything is here and

01:12:11.619 --> 01:12:15.399
basically me as a dm i have a philosophy i hate

01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:17.739
too many rules i want to keep it moving fast

01:12:17.739 --> 01:12:20.520
and furious and i hate getting bogged down and

01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:23.119
my players are playing fifth edition I'm playing

01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:26.380
the shit that I wrote. This is called The Tale

01:12:26.380 --> 01:12:28.939
Upon Effects, The Green. I think you need to

01:12:28.939 --> 01:12:30.600
let me know next time you have a spot in the

01:12:30.600 --> 01:12:32.399
game open because that sounds like a fucking

01:12:32.399 --> 01:12:35.159
blast. We're on hiatus right now just because

01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:37.800
our group got split up and we're trying to get

01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:39.979
it back together, which that's D &D for you.

01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:42.579
Yeah, no, it is. In fact, I almost think COVID

01:12:42.579 --> 01:12:45.579
made D &D a little bit easier. When people started

01:12:45.579 --> 01:12:47.560
playing over streaming, everybody was available.

01:12:47.579 --> 01:12:50.439
Had time on their hands. And I experienced a

01:12:50.439 --> 01:12:54.920
similar thing with VR. Okay. I got into VR during

01:12:54.920 --> 01:12:57.600
COVID. Okay. And that's actually not the first

01:12:57.600 --> 01:13:00.520
place I performed stand up, but. Okay, cool.

01:13:00.579 --> 01:13:03.899
I was watching like VR DJs and stuff like that.

01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:07.079
Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't, I was an observer and

01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:08.960
not like a participant or anything. I just find

01:13:08.960 --> 01:13:10.819
it weird to hit the. There's a whole app. Click

01:13:10.819 --> 01:13:13.199
off to dance or something. There's a whole app

01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:15.779
that literally gives you like CDJs and everything.

01:13:16.199 --> 01:13:19.569
It's interesting, man. It's called TribeXR. It's

01:13:19.569 --> 01:13:21.829
a DJ app. I used to have one on my computer.

01:13:22.750 --> 01:13:25.409
I forget what it's called. I can't remember,

01:13:25.550 --> 01:13:27.270
but I had it forever ago and I used to do mixes

01:13:27.270 --> 01:13:29.670
on it just to practice stuff on the fly. This,

01:13:29.689 --> 01:13:31.390
you would literally, you could pick up a needle

01:13:31.390 --> 01:13:36.329
in VR and move it. It's wild. Once you get used

01:13:36.329 --> 01:13:39.409
to like the slight tactile difference, I almost,

01:13:39.630 --> 01:13:44.590
I like professional DJs used it to train during

01:13:44.590 --> 01:13:47.989
COVID and learned how to. And then once they

01:13:47.989 --> 01:13:50.989
get out of VR, because it's all real equipment

01:13:50.989 --> 01:13:55.109
in there, it translates one -to -one in the real

01:13:55.109 --> 01:13:59.329
world. But stand -up was kind of similar. You

01:13:59.329 --> 01:14:01.149
can hear people. You can see their body movement.

01:14:01.270 --> 01:14:04.250
You can hear where the laughter is coming from,

01:14:04.310 --> 01:14:07.949
even. You have spatial sound in everybody's mic.

01:14:08.729 --> 01:14:13.310
And also, COVID made people realize that they're

01:14:13.310 --> 01:14:16.460
being exploited. Yeah. They're working too hard.

01:14:16.979 --> 01:14:19.100
You're allowed to have fun and do stuff for you.

01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:22.619
So we play a lot of D &D. And the book that I

01:14:22.619 --> 01:14:24.960
wrote is called The Tale of Pound Effects, The

01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:27.800
Green. So earlier we were talking about Yoshitaka

01:14:27.800 --> 01:14:31.260
Amano. So he did this. He illustrated for this

01:14:31.260 --> 01:14:34.020
book in Japan called The Gwyn Saga. Okay. So

01:14:34.020 --> 01:14:37.340
this is a ripoff of that. Sweet. And it's...

01:14:37.340 --> 01:14:39.739
Sweet. And if you want to send me scans, I'll

01:14:39.739 --> 01:14:41.760
put them up like full screen on this too. But

01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:44.279
this gives me a good frame of reference for what

01:14:44.279 --> 01:14:46.680
we're doing. I drew this for me. This wasn't

01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:49.460
for anybody. It was just, I was having fun. And

01:14:49.460 --> 01:14:52.359
this is one of my favorite paintings on the planet.

01:14:52.840 --> 01:14:55.079
Some of my favorite jokes are things I'm not

01:14:55.079 --> 01:14:56.619
sure I could ever tell. You could tell, right.

01:14:56.840 --> 01:14:59.600
Or they're, like, too, maybe, like, too personal.

01:14:59.680 --> 01:15:02.500
Not about me, but about, like, family members

01:15:02.500 --> 01:15:04.180
or something like that. Oh, sure. And I wouldn't

01:15:04.180 --> 01:15:05.680
want to, like, I wouldn't want to share them

01:15:05.680 --> 01:15:08.060
with the public, but they're some of my best

01:15:08.060 --> 01:15:11.539
jokes. Yeah. Yeah. But it's because it comes

01:15:11.539 --> 01:15:15.420
from, like, this, like... point of this place

01:15:15.420 --> 01:15:18.760
of truth yeah sure it's like it might be funny

01:15:18.760 --> 01:15:21.399
but it's not for everybody yeah or it wouldn't

01:15:21.399 --> 01:15:23.659
be fair to the person that it's about or something

01:15:23.659 --> 01:15:25.579
like that like even if it's not punching down

01:15:25.579 --> 01:15:27.640
on them it might just the premise might reveal

01:15:27.640 --> 01:15:30.119
too much information about somebody or some feelings

01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:34.039
don't really want to hurt matt this has been

01:15:34.039 --> 01:15:38.279
awesome matthew do you actually i don't care

01:15:38.279 --> 01:15:41.560
at all okay yeah you got to thinking i'm not

01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:45.220
sure that i've ever been one or the other with

01:15:45.220 --> 01:15:48.460
you either anyway. My parents always cared more

01:15:48.460 --> 01:15:52.140
than I did. Yeah, yeah. Is there anything you

01:15:52.140 --> 01:15:54.859
want to talk about or share before we wrap this

01:15:54.859 --> 01:15:59.199
up, man? I feel like I know that you and I could

01:15:59.199 --> 01:16:01.300
sit around and talk for hours because we've done

01:16:01.300 --> 01:16:05.319
that before. But I don't want to cut it off without

01:16:05.319 --> 01:16:08.340
something that you really wanted to talk about

01:16:08.340 --> 01:16:10.479
here either. I don't know. I just brought some

01:16:10.479 --> 01:16:11.960
artwork. I thought you might want to look at

01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:14.829
it. Yeah, man. Let's go through it. And do you

01:16:14.829 --> 01:16:16.789
have a website where people can... I don't have

01:16:16.789 --> 01:16:18.189
a website anymore. I took it down because it

01:16:18.189 --> 01:16:21.149
wasn't, like, doing anything for me. I'll get

01:16:21.149 --> 01:16:23.630
there again. Yeah, yeah. So, I did this in school.

01:16:23.909 --> 01:16:25.890
But people can find you on social media and reach

01:16:25.890 --> 01:16:29.350
out. Yeah, my social media on Instagram is wolf

01:16:29.350 --> 01:16:32.130
.mat .tattoos. And there'll be a link in the

01:16:32.130 --> 01:16:35.010
description. So, yeah. So, I was reading a lot

01:16:35.010 --> 01:16:38.550
of folklore and, like, fantasy and stuff like

01:16:38.550 --> 01:16:43.619
that. And so, I was, like, illustrating. stories

01:16:43.619 --> 01:16:46.800
like comic books. Yeah, yeah. So this is Fenrir

01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:49.319
and Tyr. Pretty cool. This is one of my favorites

01:16:49.319 --> 01:16:51.180
too. That's awesome. I have a huge thing for

01:16:51.180 --> 01:16:54.460
wolves too. Yeah, yeah. Just really cool. And

01:16:54.460 --> 01:16:58.279
I was really into mixed media, collage, watercolors.

01:16:58.979 --> 01:17:03.720
These are like pages from Irish folktales. No,

01:17:03.739 --> 01:17:07.159
this one's actually from Norse folktales. And

01:17:07.159 --> 01:17:09.760
then, yeah, it's painted over. Pretty cool, right?

01:17:09.880 --> 01:17:13.090
Yeah, that's really amazing. I know you don't

01:17:13.090 --> 01:17:17.210
believe me. Yeah. And then I was doing the same

01:17:17.210 --> 01:17:20.850
thing, but I was painting ladies. So this is,

01:17:20.869 --> 01:17:24.130
I had this one actually in a gallery. It's called

01:17:24.130 --> 01:17:27.569
Supernova, but it's from Isaac Asimov. Oh, nice.

01:17:27.989 --> 01:17:30.970
So I just, I had a collection of Isaac Asimov

01:17:30.970 --> 01:17:35.850
stories and just went to town. And I had this

01:17:35.850 --> 01:17:40.939
idea of not illustrating the story at all. It

01:17:40.939 --> 01:17:43.220
has nothing to do with anything. It's just influence.

01:17:43.279 --> 01:17:45.000
I read the story, and then I started painting,

01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:47.739
and that's it. There's definitely an influence

01:17:47.739 --> 01:17:50.479
that I know you have that we haven't talked much

01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:53.880
about, and that's comics. Oh, yes. So can you

01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:56.560
just talk a little bit about when you got really

01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:59.060
into it? What was it about comics that initially

01:17:59.060 --> 01:18:03.260
drew you in when you were younger? It's literally

01:18:03.260 --> 01:18:07.189
just the artwork. The writing honestly gets in

01:18:07.189 --> 01:18:09.409
the way for me a lot of times, especially with

01:18:09.409 --> 01:18:11.310
like modern comics where they kill somebody and

01:18:11.310 --> 01:18:12.649
then they bring them back and then they kill

01:18:12.649 --> 01:18:16.289
them. It drives me fucking crazy because it just

01:18:16.289 --> 01:18:19.210
created or they refuse to pass the torch. That

01:18:19.210 --> 01:18:22.510
really pisses me off, too. Let Miles Morales

01:18:22.510 --> 01:18:24.329
be the new Spider -Man. Like, why is Peter Parker

01:18:24.329 --> 01:18:28.170
still doing he retired, dude? Yeah, yeah. I was

01:18:28.170 --> 01:18:30.510
just big into art in general, and I would stay

01:18:30.510 --> 01:18:32.550
up flipping through comic books just for the

01:18:32.550 --> 01:18:36.920
art, not even reading them. And replicating stuff

01:18:36.920 --> 01:18:40.859
I saw. Spawn comics, stuff like that. Yeah. Were

01:18:40.859 --> 01:18:44.300
you tracing them? Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah.

01:18:44.560 --> 01:18:47.720
I keep referencing Chasing Amy, by the way. This

01:18:47.720 --> 01:18:49.939
is what we keep... Which is actually a movie

01:18:49.939 --> 01:18:53.500
that we watched as kids together. Which is probably

01:18:53.500 --> 01:18:56.319
why I keep thinking of it. But there's a great

01:18:56.319 --> 01:19:00.180
scene in there where one of them is inking and

01:19:00.180 --> 01:19:03.659
one of them is drawing and it's a whole... This

01:19:03.659 --> 01:19:06.439
is like a thing in the comic. Is this like a

01:19:06.439 --> 01:19:10.319
real rivalry in comics? I don't think so. I think

01:19:10.319 --> 01:19:13.880
a lot of pencillers know that they have to have

01:19:13.880 --> 01:19:16.779
the inker. And the style of the inker determines

01:19:16.779 --> 01:19:19.079
a lot of things. Because pencillers are loose.

01:19:20.020 --> 01:19:22.520
So the ink brings everything together, creates

01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:26.020
a cohesive style. Depth and shading. All sorts

01:19:26.020 --> 01:19:28.520
of stuff. And whoever your inker is, you've got

01:19:28.520 --> 01:19:30.840
to trust them. And a lot of pencillers don't.

01:19:30.859 --> 01:19:33.460
And they ink it themselves. So if you were to

01:19:33.460 --> 01:19:35.479
write a comic book, which would you consider

01:19:35.479 --> 01:19:37.979
yourself? A penciler, an inker, or would you

01:19:37.979 --> 01:19:40.680
just do it all? I think I would enjoy inking

01:19:40.680 --> 01:19:43.699
more than penciling, to be honest. I've always

01:19:43.699 --> 01:19:46.560
taken to inking and practiced at it a lot when

01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:51.380
I was a kid. I think I'm okay at it. Nice. Drawing

01:19:51.380 --> 01:19:53.439
a comic, there's a lot that goes into it, like

01:19:53.439 --> 01:19:59.039
the flow of frames. When the frames don't work,

01:19:59.079 --> 01:20:02.470
it's hard to read. Yeah. I'll be honest. It's

01:20:02.470 --> 01:20:04.550
a medium that I've always struggled to follow.

01:20:04.970 --> 01:20:08.529
It's difficult. I've always loved comic art.

01:20:09.189 --> 01:20:11.229
And a lot of the comic book artists that I like

01:20:11.229 --> 01:20:14.949
don't bother with classic story to comic book

01:20:14.949 --> 01:20:17.770
stories. I'm a huge fan of David Mack, Bill Sienkiewicz,

01:20:18.029 --> 01:20:21.989
Klaus Janssen, stuff like that, who don't really

01:20:21.989 --> 01:20:25.670
rely on classic comic book frames. Yeah. That's

01:20:25.670 --> 01:20:28.689
what I like. When you first got into comics,

01:20:28.750 --> 01:20:31.069
did you even care about the story at all? not

01:20:31.069 --> 01:20:33.310
really you were just looking at the art no it

01:20:33.310 --> 01:20:37.569
was occasionally i would read a series the problem

01:20:37.569 --> 01:20:39.149
is that they would disappoint me at some point

01:20:39.149 --> 01:20:42.810
yeah i remember i was reading death of superman

01:20:42.810 --> 01:20:46.090
and i was like yeah finally superman's dead and

01:20:46.090 --> 01:20:47.770
we can move on with our lives and they started

01:20:47.770 --> 01:20:50.210
introducing like super boy and man of steel and

01:20:50.210 --> 01:20:52.890
all that stuff and then six months later two

01:20:52.890 --> 01:20:55.090
blue what is a yellow and blue superman showed

01:20:55.090 --> 01:20:57.390
up and then they like fusion danced together

01:20:57.390 --> 01:21:00.289
and became superman again And I threw all my

01:21:00.289 --> 01:21:03.310
comic books out. I was so sick of it. I was like,

01:21:03.350 --> 01:21:06.149
get out of here. Did it look cool when they fused

01:21:06.149 --> 01:21:11.270
together? What else you got here? I just like

01:21:11.270 --> 01:21:14.989
painting women. It's really that simple. Get

01:21:14.989 --> 01:21:17.229
permission from the models before you paint them,

01:21:17.250 --> 01:21:20.109
though. Yeah, that's a good idea. There's always

01:21:20.109 --> 01:21:22.569
just that dude in the park with the sketchbook.

01:21:22.590 --> 01:21:24.750
Yeah, don't do that. Don't be that weirdo. And

01:21:24.750 --> 01:21:28.409
I really, really fast. painting where it's just

01:21:28.409 --> 01:21:30.250
like the essence of the thing and not realism

01:21:30.250 --> 01:21:34.050
at all you're really just like catching a moment

01:21:34.050 --> 01:21:37.130
yeah and i did a real life painting in school

01:21:37.130 --> 01:21:40.130
and stuff like that and you don't have time to

01:21:40.130 --> 01:21:42.510
worry about every detail especially with watercolors

01:21:42.510 --> 01:21:46.149
it's gonna bleed together you gotta take a after

01:21:46.149 --> 01:21:48.430
you put a layer down you gotta walk away you

01:21:48.430 --> 01:21:50.890
have to it's you'll fuck it up if you don't yeah

01:21:50.890 --> 01:21:54.010
dude this has been awesome yeah it's fun it's

01:21:54.010 --> 01:21:55.819
uh Is there anything else you want to share before

01:21:55.819 --> 01:21:57.960
we get out of here? I think that's it, man. Yeah.

01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:00.439
Thanks for being here. Thanks for sharing all

01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:03.859
the things, man. It's been great. It's always

01:22:03.859 --> 01:22:07.840
nice to talk to people in this setting that I

01:22:07.840 --> 01:22:10.579
know really well because I get to find out about

01:22:10.579 --> 01:22:12.079
things about you that I don't know that I would

01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:14.779
have ever talked about with you just hanging

01:22:14.779 --> 01:22:20.979
out in the backyard. And also, fucking congratulations

01:22:20.979 --> 01:22:24.810
on... doing the thing making it like like making

01:22:24.810 --> 01:22:29.270
it work man like it's it's really fucking hard

01:22:29.270 --> 01:22:31.989
to do and i don't think yeah when you're in it

01:22:31.989 --> 01:22:34.130
i don't think you realize like how rare it really

01:22:34.130 --> 01:22:38.050
is either yeah i wish it was less rare and so

01:22:38.050 --> 01:22:39.949
a lot of times people come to me and they say

01:22:39.949 --> 01:22:43.909
oh i can't draw a stick figure yes you can do

01:22:43.909 --> 01:22:45.470
you want to draw a stick figure do you want to

01:22:45.470 --> 01:22:47.090
draw something cooler than that you can learn

01:22:47.090 --> 01:22:50.560
it i promise you you don't I get really annoyed

01:22:50.560 --> 01:22:53.479
when people say talent and they talk about their

01:22:53.479 --> 01:22:55.340
grandma or something and how they inherit it.

01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:58.260
It drives me crazy. It's really insulting to

01:22:58.260 --> 01:23:01.680
me. Yeah. I put a lot of time and effort and

01:23:01.680 --> 01:23:05.539
work into learning and researching. And you can

01:23:05.539 --> 01:23:08.520
have a predisposition to be more successful at

01:23:08.520 --> 01:23:11.119
certain things than others. But no matter what,

01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:13.460
if you don't want to do it, you're not going

01:23:13.460 --> 01:23:16.340
to get better at it. Yep. And if you don't put

01:23:16.340 --> 01:23:18.460
the work in, you're not going to get better at

01:23:18.460 --> 01:23:21.659
it. If you want to learn how to paint landscapes,

01:23:22.180 --> 01:23:26.079
go watch Bob Ross. If you want to learn how to

01:23:26.079 --> 01:23:29.319
comic book, go copy Jim Lee. Yeah, it's okay.

01:23:29.500 --> 01:23:32.439
And if you sit down and it's just not working,

01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:34.279
then you probably don't want to do it that badly.

01:23:34.760 --> 01:23:39.399
If it hurts, if it's that, and sometimes art

01:23:39.399 --> 01:23:43.939
is hard to do and it's work. Yes. It is work.

01:23:44.020 --> 01:23:46.619
It is a job. There's a drawing I've been working

01:23:46.619 --> 01:23:49.199
on for... It's easier not to do it. It is easier

01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:51.819
to not do it. Right, exactly. There's a drawing

01:23:51.819 --> 01:23:54.239
I've been working on for three years now, and

01:23:54.239 --> 01:23:57.520
I just cannot find it in me to finish it. The

01:23:57.520 --> 01:24:01.300
original idea was to do all 900 Koroks from Breath

01:24:01.300 --> 01:24:04.800
of the Wild. All different. Why do you do these

01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:06.560
things to yourself? I don't know. I hate myself.

01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:10.829
So I got one page into it, and I've... 38 Koroks

01:24:10.829 --> 01:24:13.390
left and I just don't have the energy to do it.

01:24:13.470 --> 01:24:16.529
I don't. I have to at some point because it's

01:24:16.529 --> 01:24:19.029
sitting there mocking me. Thanks to Matthew for

01:24:19.029 --> 01:24:23.369
joining us this week. We had a great talk about

01:24:23.369 --> 01:24:26.229
all kinds of stuff. I hope you enjoyed it. Hit

01:24:26.229 --> 01:24:28.510
that subscribe button. We got a lot of really

01:24:28.510 --> 01:24:32.109
exciting interviews coming up. Jason Thrasher

01:24:32.109 --> 01:24:35.789
talks to me about his visits to India, as does

01:24:35.789 --> 01:24:39.420
Jim Kimo West. There's some parallels between

01:24:39.420 --> 01:24:41.119
their two interviews that I thought was pretty

01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:44.720
interesting. John Neff talks about all kinds

01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:49.819
of experiences over the years. Sam Lipkin tells

01:24:49.819 --> 01:24:53.380
us all about the different ways that she's gotten

01:24:53.380 --> 01:24:55.720
involved in the music community in Athens, Georgia.

01:24:56.359 --> 01:24:59.800
And Mary Joyce not only tells us more about AthFest,

01:24:59.979 --> 01:25:02.960
but she really tells us some wild stories about

01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:05.020
some of the old bands she played in, too. So

01:25:05.020 --> 01:25:08.640
hit that subscribe button. Got a lot of cool

01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:11.760
episodes coming your way. I also talked to Lanny

01:25:11.760 --> 01:25:15.140
Farmer, performed with him at Foundry in Athens.

01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:19.300
I'm going to be back in Athens on November 18th,

01:25:19.300 --> 01:25:22.460
back with Lanny Farmer. Lanny Farmer will be

01:25:22.460 --> 01:25:25.199
on the show in the next couple weeks as well,

01:25:25.279 --> 01:25:27.159
so stick around.