It's a big week here on the podcast for a multitude
of reasons. Not just because our guest is Taylor
Hollingsworth, who in addition to being an amazing
songwriter, guitar player, and visual artist,
he did the album art for the album that you can
see on the thumbnail for this episode. Also played
with Conor Oberst for several years in his band.
We talk all about that. It's a great conversation.
I really enjoyed talking to Taylor. He's a really
great guy. I liked his show so much the night
of the interview that we did that I went and
saw him two more times in a couple other cities.
It was fantastic. Go check out Taylor Hollingsworth
if he's coming near you. Check out his records.
They're awesome. And his new songs that he's
playing right now are so good, too. So make sure
you check those out. There is one thing that
I feel like I should mention really quick regarding
this interview. When we talked about Blue Tavern,
I said a lot of things that were totally true.
And I love that place. And I think Carrie has
made a really amazing space there. But what did
not ring true was the fact that. The crowd ended
up being quite talkative that night. Even folks
that were like clearly there to see Taylor play,
which was surprising, which in my experience
is not super normal for the Blue Tavern. And
I talk about how it usually is a very quiet room
to Taylor right before he played that room. So
I felt Tallahassee let me down. General, I think
we need to. Be a little bit more respectful about
the conversations we have while people are performing.
Keep that in mind. Other things going on in the
overeducated and underemployed universe. Next
week, we're going to have Danny Bedrosian from
Parliament Funkadelic talking to us about his
new book, Make My Funk the P -Funk, which comes
out tomorrow. So you can go ahead and order it
and read it before you listen to our interview
next week. We've got Matthew Dudley coming up
in a couple of weeks here with an update from
our friend Francis Thrasher, who's got a show
opening up in Athens at the Ace Francisco Gallery.
Make sure you check that out. She's also on the
cover of Flagpole Magazine right now, so grab
one of those while you're out and about in Athens.
Now's a great time to subscribe. to that magazine.
We're going to have her on to talk about that.
Then in three weeks, we're going to have Jim
West, the legendary guitar player from Weird
Al Yankovic's band. I'll be heading to Athens,
Georgia to sit down with people like Jason Thrasher,
John Neff, and we've got a live episode coming
up with Dozad St. Marie. So be on the lookout.
We got a bunch of really cool guests coming up
on this podcast. So go ahead and hit that subscribe
button. Other big news this week. Sloan Brothers,
who did the theme song that you just heard on
this podcast, has a new single out called In
a Movie. Check it out. He's also got a new EP
coming out. It's on Bandcamp. There's a link
to it in the description. It's a very limited
press on vinyl. Make sure you pre -order yours
because it's probably going to be gone before
it even releases. Lots of exciting things coming
up here. I'm going to be at Flickr Bar on November
18th to do a set there. So those of you in Athens
who want to see some stand -up comedy of mine,
come check it out. Lots of great things going
on. But without further ado, here's my interview
with Taylor Hollingsworth. Thanks for tuning
in, y 'all. All right, you're on Overeducated
and Underemployed. Right on. I really appreciate
you being here. Yeah, man. Thanks for having
me. I'm going to start with the question I ask
everybody first, which is, what's the first song
that you remember loving as a kid? First song
I remember loving as a kid, maybe it was probably
Great Balls of Fire, Jerry Lee Lewis. Hell yeah.
Do you remember how you heard it the first time?
I remember there's a few songs, but... I had
a, do you remember those little pocket rockers
that had the little tiny cassette tapes? Yeah.
They were marketed, like I was born in 1980,
so it was like marketed perfectly towards a kid
my age. They were like these, it was like a boom
box you could fit in your pocket. And it played
these tiny cassettes, and each little cassette
had two songs, one on each side. So, I remember
I had two cassettes, and I know one had Great
Balls of Fire on it, and I'm... Was it the original,
like, the Jerry Lee Lewis version? Yeah, the
Jerry Lee Lewis version, yeah. Because, like,
later they started doing, like, kids versions
of all this stuff. Oh, okay. No, this is definitely
Jerry Lee Lewis version, and I was obsessed with
that song. Do you remember how old you were?
Not really. I would guess like six or seven or
something, five or six, seven, eight, anywhere
somewhere in that range. Yeah. Yeah. But like
old enough to remember, but not old enough to
like, like it for it to be super vivid or. No,
I just have memories of, I grew up in an apartment.
We were on the lower level and there was like
a swimming pool that the. whole the apartment
complex shared and it was like right by our building
yeah and i remember i would run out my door blasting
that song and and then there was a couple other
songs like one of them was i want to say on the
other side it might have been tequila okay i
could be confusing my memory is that was so long
That song's played, I feel like, by every middle
school band and stuff too. I think because Pee
Wee Herman, I don't know what year that movie
came out, but I'm just guessing now that maybe
that movie had come out and maybe that song was
big because of that movie, but that could have
been in reverse order because I don't know what
actually year that movie came out. I just feel
like it was a song like that. If it wasn't Tequila,
it was something like that. I feel like Pee -Wee's
Playhouse was a little bit later than that. Yeah,
I'm talking about the movie. Yeah, yeah. Pee
-Wee Herman's, Pee -Wee's Big Adventure, because
that had that scene with the song Tequila. But
you're very right. Could it come out after that?
Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, and it's one of
those things where a movie uses it because it
was popular once, and then it, like, I feel like...
Bohemian Rhapsody charted again when Wayne's
World used it. Definitely. I always associated
Great Balls of Fire, and I was born in 86, which
is the year this movie came out, with Top Gun.
Yeah. Because they sing it in the bar together.
And it's not the Jerry Lee. I went back and always
listened to the Jerry Lee Lewis version, but
that song, just that scene of them singing it
together in the bar in Top Gun, it's not at the
beginning with... When they sing. So there's
another version of that song? They don't even
sing the whole thing. It's just Tom Cruise and
Goose, Val Kilmer. Not Val Kilmer, but whoever
played Goose, the guy that died. They're sitting
in a bar with Goose's wife. And they're singing
Great Balls. And I feel like that's the first
time I ever heard that song. And then maybe it
gets played in the credits or something like
that. Yeah. But I definitely went and heard the
original after that. Yeah. I don't think it was
the first song I was inquisitive about, but it
was definitely one of them. Up there, yeah. And
I first heard it in a movie. Did you associate
it with that movie when you were a tequila? Did
you associate it with that movie? With Pee Wee?
Back then, do you think? I think I did. Or the
Pocket Rocker itself. Yeah, it's cool how...
A device like that can. I was also really into
the Beach Boys. Me too. Like the early, like
Surfing Safari. I remember that was my favorite
song. My mom would put me on her knee in the
pool, and I'd be surfing on her knee, and she
would sing that song. Sing that song. Yeah, yeah.
Real young. Real young. Yeah. It was a community
pool. I was very much into oldies music, though.
Like that kind of golden oldies. That's what
my mom listened to. A lot. And then my... I guess
my dad listened to some of that stuff. Stuff
with harmonies and stuff like that? Oh yeah,
there's a lot of harmonies in that stuff for
sure. But yeah, it was the simple, short form
pop song. It was like that early, the early version
of that. And I just loved it. I loved the...
I still love... music from that time like it's
still if I had to say like an era of time that
had the most of my favorite recordings I would
probably still pick the 50s to the early 60s
before the before the like big psychedelic era
which had some stuff that I really loved but
a lot of stuff that I really don't care for now
it's interesting you say that but I'm gonna put
a pin in that thought until we get to now because
uh yeah i think i hear some influence of that
stuff on your latest record more than your previous
stuff but but we can get there when we get there
uh but i wanted to plant the seeds so you can
be like oh maybe not maybe tell me how i'm wrong
that's fine too i can tell you how i got there
wherever it is yeah exactly exactly yeah so You
loved music as a kid? Obviously, you had this
device to carry music around with you. Super
young. I loved music as a kid, for sure. I didn't
have any even interest or thought of playing
music at that time. I don't believe I... Ever
touched a guitar or got my own guitar. I'm not
going to say touched, but learned to play a chord
on a guitar until I was probably like 14 years
old. Yeah. So a good bit later, my brother, who's
three years younger than me, he actually got
a guitar before I did. Gotcha. And so that was
maybe. A bit of a reason I got interested, but
not really. Mostly it was an attraction towards
the music and the bands I was listening to at
the time and something to do socially with my
friends. I didn't really take it very seriously
at all. At its core, that's really what it should
be, right? Yeah. Even when you become the guy
that makes it, that's the goal for you, to have
other people do that while listening to your
music. And I know you lost your dad at a pretty
young age, and that was a catalyst for you starting
to play music. At least that's something I've
read. I don't know how exactly true that is.
It was in a couple different ways. It was in
a way that, first of all, in a very direct way,
one of my dad's best friends owned this cool
guitar store in Birmingham called Highland Music.
It's still the coolest guitar store in Birmingham.
Hell yeah. I mean, it's like a pretty famous
music store, even in the South. Yeah, maybe you've
heard of it. No, I definitely have. I've been
there a couple times. Cool vintage. They're like
the only place you could get a really cool vintage
guitar or like a cool vintage amp. He doesn't
have any deals with any big corporate guitar
companies or distributors like that. Like he
sells a shit. It's funny because I didn't even
know that part until recently when I was looking
for the Strat that I bought. I knew I wanted
a brand new Strat. I was like, I want a very...
high level nice stratocaster because i was just
suddenly got interested in it but i didn't want
to fuck around with any with any like i just
had so many guitar troubles in the recent years
as the more i'm playing with them that was like
i need something nice that i'm just i wanted
stainless steel frets i wanted like real high
quality parts to it and it's funny because i
called him i was like hey man this is what i
need and he was like oh yeah i don't have a deal
with fender or anything so just order it online
okay so i ordered it online and and anyway i
got i love the guitar i got it i it i had to
completely reset it it's funny because i ordered
it from sweetwater and i paid for their pro setup
that's like a few hundred extra dollars and And
it was, like, the crappiest setup ever. It was,
like, literally, like, such a joke of a setup.
So I had to undo it all, and I just reset it
up exactly. This was just recently. Oh, okay,
okay. Within the last year, yeah. I got you.
Sorry, we jumped around in time there. No, I'm
talking about the new strap. The new strap, gotcha.
Yeah, but so, sorry, to go back to what you were
saying, that was a direct influence right there.
Don, like, I... I had a friend down the street
from me who was selling a Les Paul knockoff for
50 bucks. And I had saved up money and I bought
it from him because I thought it was a cool looking
black Les Paul. I was like, okay, I want to learn
how to play guitar now. That I was into like
all this kind of like early grunge and rock.
Whatever was really big, like Nirvana and Smashing
Pumpkins. All that kind of stuff. Because you
were old enough at the time to, like, really
get into it. Oh, yeah, I was the prime age for
it. And going through, like, watching my dad
get sick and then die and living. I grew up in
this, like, very, like, wealthy community that,
like, but we were not. We were just living in
this apartment. There's a complex here that I
can very much. Very analogous. The reason we
were there is because basically my parents were
very young when I was born, and their family
and family members had told them, you've got
to have them, and that's the best school and
all this stuff. So they followed that path of
what they were just told to do. So we grew up
around all these super rich kids, and we lived
in this kind of crummy apartment. It was tiny.
It sucked, but anyway, by the time I'm a young
teenager, I'm full of angst, and I'm angry. You
don't want to be angry about. Yeah, and I'm surrounded
by all these kids with these perfect lives, and
I'm not only not feeling included or feeling
like I belong there, but I'm also being heavily
bullied and picked on at that time. Yeah, yeah.
So I was primed for music that was sad and angry
underneath it. It was made for me. Spoke to me.
I think comedians have a very similar... Most
comedians wish they could be rock stars, but
they have to settle for being comedians. A lot
of rock stars kind of wish they could be comedians.
Yeah. Yeah, the rock star thing is... And my
listeners have heard that over and over again,
but I think it's true. Like, it's pretty... Like,
most musicians are like, yeah, the comedy thing
doesn't seem so bad. Yeah. Or they write really
funny lyrics sometimes and things like that,
which I think that you have definitely done.
You put a lot of humor into your songs. Yeah,
I like to... Yeah, now as a songwriter, I try
to write... A good bit of music that I feel is
just fun and makes you have a good time. To me,
I get writing a sad song. I actually just wrote
one a couple days ago that is just so sad and
heartbreaking. A story that I came up with. But
for the most part, I don't want to feel sad.
I want to lose the sadness. I want to not dwell
on that. which is why, when I think back to being
a kid, the music that I loved from the 50s was
that. It was this bubblegum, pop, happy, fun
songs that made you feel good. Occasionally,
you might get a sadder song, but for the most
part... I'm thinking even Walking in the Rain.
Lyrically, Walking in the Rain is a pretty sad
song, but it's still very upbeat. Tonally and
tempo wise, it's still like very, it might be
in the minor key. I don't know. I'm not the guy
to ask that, but, but it's still very much upbeat.
Like, yeah. Joyful. And I'm wondering sometimes
do you need to write a song like a sad song to
deal with? To get it out of your system so that
you can move on from it? I think in this case
of the one I wrote the other day that I did.
Yeah. That one was something that had been in
my mind for a while, and I had thought on it
for a long time and how I would do it in my own
way, and it never came to me until I heard a
couple other songs that inspired it. Yeah. It
was almost like a response to those. Do you write
mostly about real things that you've encountered
or do you write a lot of kind of fictional stories
or how do you approach that? I mostly write fiction,
but I splice in real stuff that I have either
experienced personally or basically, yeah, I've
experienced personally, like, especially if I
want to. Overall, the story will be fiction and
kind of something I'm coming up with in my mind
and vending on my own. But if I want to, say,
close out a phrase with a very powerful line
that I want people to relate to and I want it
to really hit them in the gut, that's when I'll
put in a... line that's personal to me or that's
happened because typically if it has happened
to me and gotten to me it's gonna also have happened
to others or sure be relatable to others yeah
i bj barham who hasn't been on the podcast yet
but i was talking to him after he gave a talk
with with chuck reese from salvation south We
have a fest here that he gets to curate a stage
for every year. Hopefully, maybe he'll bring
you onto that stage next year. That would be
awesome. Yeah. But I feel like you're the perfect,
like, I'm, like, thinking about you. That's the
perfect place for you to play. But BJ was doing,
like, a Q &A, songwriters in the round kind of
thing, and he said, yeah, something similar.
Most of his songs are, like, especially these
days, they're, like, fictional. Yeah. But there's
always. at least one line that is like pure truth.
And that kind of brings the authenticity to what
he's doing too, to what he's singing about. Right.
So let's go back for a second. You're listening
to a lot of grunge and stuff like that when you
pick up a guitar for the first time. Is that
right? Yeah, when I pick up the guitar for the
first time, yeah, that's what I was going for.
I think one of the first songs I learned was
probably like Smells Like Teen Spirit or something.
Yeah. I think the very first thing I learned
was actually Tom Petty, Free Fallin', because
it was that D chord shape. And that's, even though
that's actually not how he plays it, but it sounds
like it. So it sounds real easy. It's like close,
yeah. It's real easy and a beginner can do that.
I think that was the first thing like a friend
of mine showed me, but. As soon as my dad died
and I bought that guitar, the owner of Highland
Music, he gave me and my brother free lessons
for a good six months. Yeah. Just to give us
something to do and keep us busy. Right. And
he, I think day one, like they were tuning my
guitar for me and the tuner fell off. It just
broke off. Oh no. And he just. Threw it in the
trash. And this is the Les Paul copy that you
bought? Yeah, the rip -off. He threw it in the
trash, and he picked another guitar up off the
wall, which was a Washburn. That's what I've
got. Yeah, which was like this Washburn, which
I didn't like because the headstock always weighted
down. But it was still much nicer. It had real
metal tuner. It would hold its tune. They make
all solid bodies. Cool, it's actually the Washburn
that I've seen now. There's all these early videos
of R .L. Burnside. He was playing that same one,
which I think is super cool. Of course, I didn't
know who he was back then, but yeah, it's that
same one. Yeah, no, I love it. He's all skinny,
and he's playing out in his yard. You find the
video where he's playing this electric Washburn?
It's that one. Okay. I'm going to find it. That's
what I'm going to do after your show tonight.
I'm stoked that you're playing at the Blue Tavern.
It's a venue here in town, and I promised Kerry
I'd mention it, so I'm going to right now. I'm
going to make sure I do it. It's a venue in town
that really focuses a lot on local artists, to
be honest with you. That's great. It's not often
that they get a lot of touring musicians in there,
so this is a treat for the venue, but also it's
where all the musicians hang out. I've heard
really good things about it. It's great, man.
It's a really community -based spot. Yeah. And
like I said, it's like where all the musicians
in town hang out, too. It's not just where they
play, but they're there most nights for happy
hour and that sort of thing. It's cool. They
have a really good culture of listening, not
talking through shows, which I think is really...
rare yeah a lot of the time you'll get dirty
looks if you talk everybody's got a comment to
make to their friend or whatever but if you start
trying to have a full -on conversation yeah you're
gonna start to get dirty looks in there yeah
it's a really great spot man so i'm really stoked
to see you in there tonight i'm excited carrie's
worked really hard to build a place that's like
a safe haven from all the bullshit out there
yeah It's a good spot. If you're going to land
in a random spot in Tallahassee, that's the place
to be. Yeah. What are you doing on this tour
right now? Are you, like, what's the trajectory?
What are you? The goal or whatever. Maybe not
externally, but maybe more so, like, internally.
What are you working on? The goal is running.
My own small little business, and I've been doing
this for a long time. My daughter's 12, about
to be 13. So up until this last year, I had quit
all the touring I had been doing and just played
as a local musician in Birmingham. Gotcha, yeah.
It's been a long time since I'd seen you play
out. I saw you last year at Earl, this year up
at the Dial Back Sound Showcase that they had
at Flickr as part of the homecoming. Yeah. Heathens
homecoming thing up next door to the 40 watt.
But that's like the only time I've seen you play
outside of Birmingham and are written before
then in a long time. Maybe immediately before
then, but up in. Up until the last year or so.
Yeah, so for about half that time of playing
local, I was doing it as a duo with my friend
Alan, who was the drummer for Dead Fingers. That
was me and my wife's band. Yeah. And then about
halfway through, right around when COVID happened,
there was nothing, no gigs for about a year.
And then when I came back out of that, I decided
I wanted to just push solo with that little foot
stomp. My whole life I had been watching guys
play one -man shows. I remember all the way back
to being probably 10, 11, 12 years old, my dad
was really into this guy Chris Smither, an incredible
player, guitar player. and songwriter and he
does like a foot tap thing he doesn't do it like
a lower kick drum sound like i do yeah yeah but
i was very i had i remember early on just always
thinking like how cool that was and as i got
older and playing i've for years i was playing
with all these bands and i had my own solo sort
of three -piece punk band rock and roll band
or whatever for a little while and that did pretty
surprisingly we actually did a pretty good for
that but yeah yeah i saw that band yeah oh cool
we did that for as long as it could last basically
shortly after that died it was when i started
playing with conor robertson the mystic valley
band and then after that was like then dead fingers
pretty much and then Then we had our daughter
and got married and settled down, got a house
and stuff. At that point is when I was like,
okay, I either am going to have to like basically
get a real job and either quit playing music
or I'm going to have to figure out how to make
a living playing as a local musician. And I knew
people that did that. So that was appealing to
me because I don't have a very, I didn't go to
college. I went for one year. did horrible didn't
try at all but yeah yeah i just wasn't at all
inspired or interested in it but i was only interested
in the classes that i was interested in yeah
i really even at that even that i was like not
i was only at that time i was just purely interested
in playing guitar and trying to work my way into
a real band As a guitar player. I wasn't trying
to write songs at that time. But anyway. That
was actually going to be my next question. You
start playing guitar. 14, 15. And you're really
just a guitar player. For quite some time. Yeah.
And then when did you start writing your own
songs? So I. Somehow did pretty good as a guitar.
Like for all those years of. say 14 to say 19
or 20 I was like pretty good at guitar I really
didn't work hard at it or practice at all I jammed
like with my friends and stuff I thought I was
way better than I actually was like you you know
I certainly now know I didn't know shit then
which I thought I was like oh this is easy for
me that's the Dunning -Kruger effect right like
the more The better you get at something, the
worse you feel at it. The more you know about
it, the more you know that you don't know. That's
definitely happening. The less you know, the
more you think you're an expert. That happened
to me for sure. It's happening to America. It
is happening to America. You're right. Once I
had an opportunity to play. There were these
guys I worked with in this little bagel shop.
They were signed to this indie label. I was like,
very wowed by them wow these guys are actually
what band was that they were called flair okay
and they were this local birmingham band that
i thought was just super cool and they gave me
a shot like to audition for their band and i
failed the first audition but we worked together
and they really liked me as a person yeah so
they Their bass player, his name was Adam Snable.
He was a super nice guy. He actually really pushed
me to keep practicing. He was like, just keep
practicing those songs. Get them down really
good. I'm going to talk the guys into letting
you have one more shot. And they did. They gave
me one more shot. And then I passed it that time.
And I got in the band. And I was so excited.
So I was probably about 20 or something. Yeah,
about 20 years old. It was about the year 2000.
Yeah. About the year 2000. And then that band
broke up pretty much immediately before their
record even came out on the label that they had
just gotten signed to. Was that a shock to you,
or did you expect it? I was a little shocked
at how far they had come to not pursue it, but
I also knew the singer, the main guy who was
the songwriter, I knew he was... I could tell
he was having some... ethical and moral confusion
like with the whole rock and roll and being in
a band lifestyle to begin with the whole picture
of it gotcha so i in that way i wasn't that shocked
but they had actually taught me about the two
other cool bands from the area which at the time
that i mean there are plenty more cool bands
but they taught me about two of them This band
called Verbena and this band called The Dexatines.
Both of those bands I got into as well. So Verbena
asked me to play after Flair. And that was like
the real deal type shit. It was like, wow, they
were actually signed to Capitol Records. As soon
as I got in the band, we flew to L .A. to work
on this huge production record. by this guy Rob
Schnauf was the producer. You probably know who
he is. He did Elliott Smith records. He did Beck
records. He was like, this is capital rec. Right,
yeah. This is the people that... It's the big
time. Yeah, and they did that Dandy Warhols.
Yeah. This is around the same time they're doing
that Dandy Warhols. Yeah, and this band was similar
a little bit stylistically, like, or at least...
I don't know if you've seen Dig. Vibe -wise,
yeah, I've seen Dig. I actually can't stand the
Dandy Warhols. Me, I like Brian Jonestown. I
like Brian Jonestown. But that's what's going
on, and it's around the same time. It's Capitol
Records, early 2000s. Yeah, totally, totally.
And they're putting $100 ,000 into a music video.
Totally, exactly. So anyway, what happened was
I got in that band, but then I got out there.
The singer was like this just very, like, manipulating
and controlling kind of guy. And he basically,
he wouldn't let me play on the record, really.
Or they weren't asking me, and I was like, I'm
not going to go beg. But they weren't, like,
asking me to play. So I was just out there twiddling
my thumbs, doing nothing. I got, I'm pretty stubborn.
I was not very happy with the situation. Once
we came back to Birmingham, we were supposed
to do this like demo session to then fly back
out and do the second session of recordings.
And I just didn't show up to the demo sessions.
And then the singer took that as a big old fuck
you. And I was like, this little kid's not going
to. even show up I'm like yeah I didn't show
up because y 'all haven't had me do anything
what am I showing up for why am I even going
out there just like being a photo or something
so that quickly ended he had the other guys come
to my house and tell me I was like out of the
band that was so stupid I'm like yeah no shit
that was total high school shit and this guy's
10 years older than me at the time So anyway,
I thought it was so dumb. But around that time,
Matt Patton, I'd met him at the Knick hanging
out. And me and him became like best friends
immediately. And he was in the Dexateens, original
member. And at that time, they were still very
much a punk band. Oh, yeah. It was like around
just before Single Wives came out. This is what
we refer to as the Headphones record. It has
headphones on the front. I do know that record,
yeah. But it's just self -titled. It's just called
Dexatines. It came out on Estrus, which was a
cool garage punk label based out of somewhere
around Seattle. I can't remember what town, but
right on the coast up there. My boss bought me
that record at Vinyl Fever for my 18th birthday.
Killer record. Yeah, it really, yeah. And that
was like, he was like, Are you getting into Americana?
Listen to this shit. Yeah. And this was really
before even they went in the Americana direction.
No, he was like a garage rock singer. They were
twangy sometimes. Oh, definitely twangy. Yeah.
That's what made him stand out. So anyway, that
guitar player, John Smith, who's an incredible
guitar player, he was just very kind to me. All
those guys were just very nice to me. He told
the other guys, he was like, this is the perfect
guy. He was moving to another city to teach art
at a university. And he was like, this kid's
going to be perfect for the band. He'll cover
what I was doing with the twangy leads and all
that. So I did, and we did some cool shows. We
went to England and played like a week there
and played a lot around the South and stuff.
But around that time, I was starting to know.
I guess I had already started when I exited Verbena.
I got it in my head that all these people I know
have gotten to this level and they're writing
their own songs and they're doing everything
themselves. And I realized at that time that
I was probably only going to really be happy
if I... was doing everything myself, I didn't
just want to be a sideman anymore. I didn't like
being able to just be replaced or feel easily
replaceable. So that's when I basically was like,
I'm going to teach myself how to write songs.
And I remember I had just gotten a credit card
not long before that, and I swiped it and I bought
a Tascam 4 -track, like a SM58, a drum machine.
a bunch of cables, an entire PA system so I could
have practices all in one swipe. And I was a
little scared. I was spending a lot of money.
Of course, now it's really not that much money.
But for the time, for me, $1 ,500 was like a
lot of money. But I didn't care. I was like,
all right, I have to have these things and I
have to have them now. And nobody's going to
give me this money. There was a certain part
of you that I can tell you, like, you wanted
to do it, maybe not perfectly, but you wanted
to have the right stuff from the beginning. In
a way, I wasn't, at that time, I wasn't, like,
I didn't care about having, like. really cool
vintage gear or anything like that but i guess
more like you you wanted to have everything you
needed i wanted to have everything i needed for
sure yeah yeah so i got basically self -sufficient
lowest level of everything i needed so i could
be completely self -sufficient yeah exactly so
once i made that record four track record my
friend travis morgan in birmingham had just started
this label called sky bucket records ended up
putting out some of the Dexatines records and
a bunch of cool bands from Birmingham. So my
album that I made was his first release. Oh,
wow. So we were like, we had been friends for
years. We met in elementary school. Like, we
went way back. So it was like a little bit of
a friend -team partnership. Let's see how we
can do it. And we handmade every CD package and
wrote on every one of them. It sounds so much
like the bands I was hanging out with around
that same time. Yeah. We were burning CDs. Yeah,
and there wasn't streaming yet. No. We were going
to the mall and handing out CDs and flyers. Yeah.
I remember my first review, I dropped it off
at the local paper, which was called the Black
and White in Birmingham. And I had a cassette
tape that I had made, and every cassette tape
I wrote on whiteout. That was the name of the
cassette in actual whiteout. And the review,
the guy was like, I don't even know what to say.
There's whiteout crumbling all over my desk.
But he gave me this glowing review. But he was
like, at the same time as this handmade crappy
CD and cassette tape is falling apart on my desk
as I open it, I put it in my stereo. And I think
it might be the coolest garage rock music I've
ever heard from Birmingham, Alabama. So I got
this, like, immediately, like, locally, I got
this immediate, like, glowing review from...
And this paper was known to, like, kind of bash...
Kind of like Pitchfork. Yeah, on a local level,
they would just trash local music and trash...
Music that was touring through that they were
writing about or whatever, too. So it was hard
to get a good review out of them. So when people
saw that, they were like, whoa, what the hell,
dude? Well, and it could have been the last tape
that player ever got to play. Sure. Very likely.
Maybe unintended consequences. Yeah, very likely.
So then how did you end up getting linked up
with Conor Oberst after that? Because this is
probably. Two or three years before that, I'm
guessing? Yeah. So this would have been around...
So now we're probably at 2003. Okay. Like a couple
years after those other bands. And he's about
to put out I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning, which
is... Yeah, so... So I met... He was dating my
now, who I'm married to, her sister. Okay. Maria
Taylor. So I met her through... that verbena
crowd and all because she was more like in their
age group gotcha gotcha and we became friends
and she actually brought connor i was playing
in atlanta at the earl yeah i love the earl yeah
i was playing a show there with my band and that
was taylor in the i'm sorry at the time that
was probably just called taylor hollingsworth
but it was still like a rock band It might have
been called Taylor Hollingsworth and the Spider
Eaters, but I don't think it was the Spider Eaters
yet. Okay. But, so, yeah, Connor and Maria came
to the Earl to see me play. And that night, me
and Connor hung out all night long. Like, just,
we were, like, immediately just. We got super
drunk together, and we were just, like, hugging
each other all night. We were just, like. Best
friends immediately. Rad bromance. So he came
down for Christmas that year to Birmingham with
his family to have Christmas with her family.
And he threw, like, an impromptu Bright Eyes
show that was, like, announced, like, the day
before or the day of or some shit and literally
still sold out like this huge price. Yeah, of
course. And he didn't have his band, so he was
like, will you play guitar for that show? And
he built a band out of Maria's family, so it
ended up being her brother, her dad, her sister,
which is Kate, who at the time was dating somebody
else, now my wife. So anyway, I ended up playing
guitar. Ended up being this incredible show.
Even Gillian Welch and David Rawlings drove down
from Nashville and played with us on the stage.
Oh, wow. I'm nowhere, especially at the time,
I'm still not, but especially at the time, nowhere
even, none of us were in the league of Gillian
and Dave, like musicianship wise. But they came,
we played, we all played together. We had this
just super magical, fun night. And then we, yeah,
we just kept in touch. And then a couple years
later. A lot of things were going on. My mom
then got sick. She passed away. I was trying
to start this musical career, but at the same
time, I moved back into my house to take care
of her. I was there until she died. Shortly after
that, I got mixed up pretty bad on drugs with
another group of friends I had for years. At
some point, Macy Taylor, who was my wife's brother,
he had been invited by Connor to go to Mexico
to record this first solo record. And Macy was
like, I remember he called me and he was like,
you should just fly down to Mexico. You just,
you got to get out of Birmingham. You can't be
there. You're not, you got to get away from those
people. And I knew that I needed to as well.
I had no intentions of playing guitar or anything
on that record. I just was trying to get away.
So I flew down to Mexico. I actually had another
friend who was living in Mexico City at the time,
Josh Johnson, cool garage rocker. He was in this
band, The Spins. Plays with a bunch of bands.
Paint fumes and stuff like that, like real garage
punk. Super sweet guy. We were really good buddies
back then, and I stayed with him for... three
to four days or something like that in his apartment
in mexico city and then i drove down or got a
bus i didn't record took a bus figured out how
to get down to this town called tape hot salon
where connor had rented out this compound to
set up a studio in have everybody have a place
to live for the whole like month or whatever
and when i got there Connor was like, hey, man,
I saved you a couple of tracks to play guitar
solos. And I was like, oh. I had no clue that
was going to happen. So I laid down the guitars,
and it went very easily and quickly. He had a
lot of the LA pros with him, and I think they
were impressed that I could just jump in and
do that. Yeah, yeah. So I think the combination
of that going well and everything. And it probably
built a lot of confidence for yourself too. Yeah,
it built some confidence. At that time I had
confidence. I was more confident then than I
am now. But you were not doing well. It doesn't
sound like. I was like, I was not doing well
with drugs. Mentally, I was still okay. Okay.
Because I hadn't even dealt with any of it yet.
Gotcha. It's the same thing I did after my dad
died. I had a bad drug problem then too. I did
that stuff to remove myself from the pain and
not address it at all. It was some sort of arrested
development or something. I just put it in a
box somewhere in the side of my head. and left
it there and didn't ever deal with it. You know
what I mean? Yeah, no. Honestly, I'm probably
just now dealing with a lot of that within the
last few years. So, as I've, like, finally gotten
off of all the drugs I was on for years. But,
so, at that time, though, I played the guitar,
did that. Connor... sent me an email or his management
did or something like hey he's requested that
you do these tours and it was like this long
list of tours and it was like really good payment
and everything and I had never seen anything
like that I was like yes like I need to do that
I had just been dropped from my booking agent
because I had a good booking agent for a year
of course I was a complete alcoholic and drug
addict so i did not handle that very well and
you weren't like being able to like save a lot
of money or anything oh i had no yeah no yeah
nothing but i didn't care i didn't need money
at that time i didn't even have and you'd learned
that you could survive it i didn't even live
anywhere i just crashed a friend i was like a
complete transient i didn't like i didn't even
care to have a place i had nothing i had uh this
place i rented We called it the gravel pit. It
was like the women's bathhouse out in the grounds
of an old blast furnace that was just decrepit
and falling apart. They rented out these little
spaces for artists, like little art studios.
No running water, nothing in there. It was a
cinder block little square building that I had
everything in. It was like a storage unit. It
was $50 a month. And I could keep all my shit
in there, and I had a twin mattress on the floor,
concrete floor, cinder block walls. No power.
No, there was power, but there was no water.
I had to go to the gas station up the street
to use the bathroom or do anything like that.
But there was power, so yeah, that was what I
told him. I needed power. I was like, I'm going
to practice music out here. That was my reason
to have the place. That's all I had, though,
and I could easily come up with $50 a month.
Other than that, I had a 15 -passenger van that
my manager from Atlanta had basically bought
for me or was paying for. I handed that over
once the agency dropped me because I dropped
the label. I told the label I didn't want to
make. I'd made the record Tragic City, and they
wanted Tragic City No. 2, and I made Bad Little
Kitty. And they thought that was insane. They
were like, no, we cannot invest money in this
record, but we will pay for another record if
you'll make it. And I was like, no, this is the
record. This is the record, and I'm stubborn,
and I wasn't going to give an inch. And they
were like, we really like you, but we're going
to have to part ways. We just can't invest in
that. And I thought that some cool label would
immediately pick me up. And they didn't. And
then my booking agent with the agency group dropped
me instantly. And I was back to nothing. But
then you end up in Mexico. But then I went to,
that's when the drugs and all that happened.
Then I went to Mexico. Then Connor was like,
here, I got a job for you. Play lead guitar for
the Mystic Valley Band. And it turned into the
Valley Band. And that went on for three years.
That ended up going on for a good long time.
Yeah, probably about three years or something.
But it seems like after that, it's almost like
you return to the same lessons again, where you're
like, maybe not quite as bitter this time around,
but you're like, I want to put out my own music
again. So, yeah. So as I hung out with that crowd,
I got more into the actual songwriting and the
lyric writing. I was inspired by Connor's style
of writing and all his friends. They were all
into this sort of really lyrically focused writing,
and I wanted to do that. I wanted to learn how
to do that too, and I wanted to learn how to
play. I thought, okay, maybe if it's lyrically
driven, I can play shows by myself, and I wouldn't
have to afford a band and all that. So I made
that album, Life With A Slow Air, and then Connor
put that out on the label at the time that he
owned called Team Love. It was based out in New
York City. He sold that label later to another
guy that worked for his group of people, but
that record didn't really do anything. I think
it was okay, but they actually, I don't know,
I can't even get the vinyls for them. They never
sent me any money for anything. And I paid for
the record, so I got screwed over on that deal.
Not by Connor, but by people. That's what happens
when too many big executives and people with
kids get involved. That was kind of when I learned
to be on his stuff. It was like you're always
going to be secondary to him. They're always
going to be focused on his career, and you're
like an afterthought. But it sounds like working
with him really shaped the way you write songs
now. Oh, sure. I learned a lot. Yeah, I learned
a lot. And I try to mix it with my old stuff,
too. Yeah, I hear that. And I feel like maybe
that's what I'm hearing more in this latest record.
I'm only pushing it forward because I know you've
got to get to the venue soon here. So I don't
want to rush too much of this story, but I do
want to... give you an opportunity to talk about
the new record yeah there's a copy of it sitting
behind you if you want to grab it and and show
it it's i love it man i've been playing it a
lot and i do think it's different than a lot
of your other solo records recently because i
feel like now that i've heard your story i feel
like it's more that you're integrating some of
your older sounds into it not yeah I made it
with Matt. That's a photo of us from back in
that time period I'm talking about. That's actually
me and Matt probably like 2001 or 2002 maybe.
Maybe even 2000. I don't know. That's right when
we were immediately like best friends right there.
That could have been a Dexatine show. It might
have been this band Cut Grass that we were playing
in. Is he as happy as he looks like when he's
playing music? Because he just seems like he's.
Yeah. Is he always that happy? Only on stage.
Only on stage. Yeah. I feel like that's like
the number one question people have is he always.
He's very happy on stage. He loves to perform
and play bass for sure. It's definitely his happy
place. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So this new record,
I feel like it really is like integration of
everything you've ever done. Yeah. So the new
direction, that's what I'm trying. Once I did
the local thing as a duo, then I switched it
to solo. I knew I wanted to add that foot thing.
Like I said, people I'd been watching for almost
my whole life doing that, I was very inspired
to get the biggest sound and get the most entertaining
and exciting thing I could do with one man because
I wanted to be able to make a living, and I was
just never... My music previously had never made
enough money for me to really afford a band,
especially once I grew up and did actually buy
a house and have a mortgage and have a kid. I
went from living where I needed nothing to like,
oh, now I need a good bit of money every month.
So I became a straight hustler with the guitar.
I was playing sometimes three gigs in a day.
I would do a brunch gig and an evening gig and
then a late night gig. And I was just taking
all the gigs I could get around town. And over
time, I was only going to do it with my original
songs. I wasn't going to become a cover band
guy or something like that. I wasn't going to
accept it. Was that ever something that you were
really, were you ever really into covers? It
doesn't sound like that. No, always to me, in
my mind, it was like I just. Probably just because
I'm stubborn and whatever, but I'll never. I
was like, the amount of energy it's going to
take me to sit here and learn a cover song to
then perform for y 'all a cover song, I could
put that energy into writing my own songs. Thank
you. Which will then serve me later as well as
now. Man, I don't hate cover songs universally.
No, I don't either. There's so many bands that
just play, like, what people are going to sing
at karaoke. Yeah. Or, like, I want to hear a
cover song because it's a song I've never heard
before and you're introducing me to something.
Because it's some song that I could go here on
the road. So I wanted to be able to please the
crowd with a song that they had never heard.
And that was what got me. Really working on the
finger style that I bastardized and came up with
for myself. I never learned a particular finger
style for the same reason. Because I don't want
to get up there and I'm playing the exact same
style as whoever. Like Mississippi John Hurt
or whatever. I don't want to be a copy of something.
At some point, they made that up too. So, yeah,
you call it stubbornness. I call it like an avant
-garde fucking. Yeah, it's really like I think
that it's needed, necessary applaud. It's what
makes you stand out, man, is the fact that you
don't just try to be. And you do it all. Yeah,
I purposely try to play and sound like myself.
Yeah. I could have gotten a resonator and done
the thing where suspenders and... I could do
that. But, like, I... Anytime anything comes
in style, it's like I do the freaking opposite
because... Sometimes it... It's almost like a
punk rock belligerence that you take to everything
that you do. And I fucking love that. It is.
And how have you meshed that? Even though I don't
consider myself in the punk rock scene at all
anymore. But in some ways, it's totally punk
rock. There's punk music, and then there's just
being a punk. Once punk became a genre or a fad,
it's like that. No, but this belligerence to
like... of non -conformity but that's what yeah
punk rock to me just meant freedom expression
in freedom to play whatever you want to play
and that's what i mean when i say that you bring
that to whatever music you're doing yeah so can
you just talk for a minute really quick before
we wrap this up about a your songwriting process
i've heard a lot of songwriters talk it's like
an antenna and they Grab it. Yeah. And then sometimes
it's a lot more intentional. And then I guess
also part of that too now is like how much of
a conscious effort do you put into blending genres
and things like that when you're writing songs?
I don't, none of, the genre blending is not very
conscious. I think that just happens because
I listen to so many different genres and particularly,
a handful in particular a lot but i do listen
there's certain things that like i can relate
to like i can i can say there's i was rocking
out to juice by todd snyder on the whole drive
here but there's a lot in common with that with
a freaking notorious big song And that's the
flow of the words, the flow of the rhyme schemes
and the way they're laid out. So I'm very attracted
to that. I love word flow and I think it does
a lot to a song, but I also want to, I know my
strengths are usually the lyric songwriting in
that, in the word flow and then the playfulness
and then also the guitar. So I try to, I purposely
work on the guitar stuff. I try to make it interesting
and stand out on its own as well. A lot of the
way I've gotten to the genre and style that I
am is just on the fact that I knew I wanted and
needed to be able to make a living as a one -man
show. I knew I wanted it to be... different i
knew i didn't want to sound like anything's trendy
but a lot of the but you could also a lot of
the genres i play with are trendy at times if
you picked them apart individually but i don't
think i fall into those if you listen to it on
its own being like by coincidence and like that
being because you were trying to be trendy right
yeah A lot of my heroes really were one -man
show guys and one -man entertainers from way
back in the day, like blues guys who had monthly
gigs at the same place every month, who did residencies
all over their town or whatever. So that was
part of the, as I read about people like that,
it was like, okay, that is a very good business
model that nobody lives by today. Everybody thinks
you have to go. tour and get it's all about these
making yourself look like more than you actually
are making yourself seem bigger or more famous
than you really are and that always was just
so lame to me that's like the fake social media
world we live in now but i wanted to actually
make a good living and just be a local guy yeah
and like i had at the time i had zero desire
to go out and look like i had these big grandiose
tours and i'm this rock star it was like i want
to start small i want to figure out a way to
make a living in this little circle of an area
and then i want to slowly grow that what changed
what like what changed for you now because now
it seems like you're touring a lot i this last
year i have been touring a lot and a lot of that
came to Me and Matt talking and deciding to make
that wreck, make Yehola together. The very first
tour I did was opening for Laura Jane Grace.
Yeah. The Mississippi Medicals. That was the
first tour I did with this solo stomp thing.
I don't think you opened for her when she played
here, though, a couple years ago. This was one
year ago. This was last September. Yeah. And
I did come into Florida, but I don't think we
did Tallahassee. Yeah. No, last year she skipped
Tallahassee. Yeah, she just did Gainesville,
I think. Yeah, we did do Gainesville. It was
two years ago. That tour went very well for me.
I really had no clue what that would be like.
She's very punk rock and reaches a young punk
audience, and I thought they might think I'm
just some old guy finger -picking weird, folky,
bluesy stuff, and they might not like it at all.
Matt was like, dude, I think you should do it.
I really think they're going to like you more
than you realize. That makes sense to me. And
it went well. I sold a lot of merch. I realized,
oh, wow, I've been doing this in Birmingham so
long. When you play locally all the time, of
course you have your people that follow you and
support you. But because you're playing so often.
you're not getting them every night. And a lot
of times you're playing to people that aren't
really paying attention. So it's almost like
in my head, I wasn't, I was all about just making
enough money from the bar. It wasn't really about,
I was never doing real shows where I had to worry
about ticket sales to bring in the money. It
was just a flat fee everywhere. I played your
background entertainment. I did that for 10 years.
So I was. used to that I was used to people not
caring so suddenly to play real shows again where
people were there to see you I was nervous I
was didn't know how I was gonna go but when it
went really well that's when Matt was like if
I book these tours for you or help you get some
shows would you be down to keep continue this
and try and I was like yeah because at home my
kids gotten older She's into theater. She's into
music. She has a social life. She's already very
busy. My wife works all the time. I was like,
I guess this is a time now where I could actually
go on the road more. So it's still a bit of an
experiment right now. But I'm realizing I can
make an even better living doing it the touring
way. I'm hoping now to build it and get another
agent. Now that I quit drinking about a year
and a half ago, I'm taking things very seriously
now. I practice like every day. I'm trying to
be as good as I can possibly be. But I still
want to keep it a one -man show. That's what
inspires me. But I'm hoping now that I can build
this into a real legitimate kind of career path.
I love this new record, man. I think you're definitely,
like, heading the right direction there, man.
Thanks. Thanks for helping me spread the word.
Fuck yeah, man. Thanks for being here. I really
appreciate it. I'm going to let you get to your
show. Heck yeah, man. And we'll put this out
in a couple of weeks, and everybody will get
to hear everything about it. And I'll have links
to the record and where you can buy it and your
tour dates and all that jazz. Is there anything
else you want to mention really quick? Before
we end? Not necessarily. I mean, we're closing
in on the next record. It's going to come out.
I don't know when yet. Hopefully early next year,
I'm hoping. I will be hitting the West Coast.
A friend of mine, Harmar Superstar, totally different
kind of music again, but he messaged me not long
ago and asked if I would want to open up for
his shows down the West Coast. So pretty excited
about playing some of those clubs. The thing
is, here's what I always say about music, man.
There's really only two kinds of music. Yeah.
There's good music and there's bad music. Yeah,
I like that. Thank you so much for being here,
Taylor. Thank you. I really appreciate it. All
right. That was my interview with Taylor Hollingsworth.
He's fucking great. Spent the next couple of
days with him. We spent the next couple of days
with him here and there. I went to see him in
Jacksonville, went to see him in Dothan. Dothan
has some cool little shows going on up there
if you're in that area. They're doing some stuff
in their little amphitheater downtown. It was
awesome. Taylor puts on such a fucking great
show. It's really rare for me to be completely
captivated by somebody and just follow them to
the next couple of shows, but that's what it
was like. Talking to him was great. He's just
a great dude. But watching him play was phenomenal.
And, I mean, I wanted to hang out with him more
and see him play more. And I hope you enjoyed
the interview with him. A couple other guests
we're going to have on soon. We've got Lanny
Farmer coming on in a few weeks. He's a comedian
in Athens, Georgia. He'll be headlining at the
Foundry on the 23rd, next Thursday. I'll be there.
And I'll be sticking around Athens. I'll be at
the Rumpus, the Wild Rumpus. Y 'all check that
out. Kane Stanley's going to be leading the drum
line in the parade. I've never been. I'm expecting
it to be crazy. I'm going to interview a bunch
of people, shoot a bunch of stuff, and show y
'all what I find out about it. So thanks for
tuning in to Overeducated and Underemployed,
y 'all. Hit that subscribe button. Next week,
we got Danny Bedrosian from Parliament Funkadelic.