WEBVTT

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It's a big week here on the podcast for a multitude

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of reasons. Not just because our guest is Taylor

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Hollingsworth, who in addition to being an amazing

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songwriter, guitar player, and visual artist,

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he did the album art for the album that you can

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see on the thumbnail for this episode. Also played

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with Conor Oberst for several years in his band.

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We talk all about that. It's a great conversation.

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I really enjoyed talking to Taylor. He's a really

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great guy. I liked his show so much the night

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of the interview that we did that I went and

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saw him two more times in a couple other cities.

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It was fantastic. Go check out Taylor Hollingsworth

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if he's coming near you. Check out his records.

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They're awesome. And his new songs that he's

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playing right now are so good, too. So make sure

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you check those out. There is one thing that

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I feel like I should mention really quick regarding

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this interview. When we talked about Blue Tavern,

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I said a lot of things that were totally true.

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And I love that place. And I think Carrie has

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made a really amazing space there. But what did

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not ring true was the fact that. The crowd ended

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up being quite talkative that night. Even folks

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that were like clearly there to see Taylor play,

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which was surprising, which in my experience

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is not super normal for the Blue Tavern. And

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I talk about how it usually is a very quiet room

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to Taylor right before he played that room. So

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I felt Tallahassee let me down. General, I think

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we need to. Be a little bit more respectful about

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the conversations we have while people are performing.

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Keep that in mind. Other things going on in the

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overeducated and underemployed universe. Next

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week, we're going to have Danny Bedrosian from

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Parliament Funkadelic talking to us about his

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new book, Make My Funk the P -Funk, which comes

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out tomorrow. So you can go ahead and order it

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and read it before you listen to our interview

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next week. We've got Matthew Dudley coming up

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in a couple of weeks here with an update from

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our friend Francis Thrasher, who's got a show

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opening up in Athens at the Ace Francisco Gallery.

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Make sure you check that out. She's also on the

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cover of Flagpole Magazine right now, so grab

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one of those while you're out and about in Athens.

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Now's a great time to subscribe. to that magazine.

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We're going to have her on to talk about that.

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Then in three weeks, we're going to have Jim

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West, the legendary guitar player from Weird

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Al Yankovic's band. I'll be heading to Athens,

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Georgia to sit down with people like Jason Thrasher,

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John Neff, and we've got a live episode coming

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up with Dozad St. Marie. So be on the lookout.

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We got a bunch of really cool guests coming up

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on this podcast. So go ahead and hit that subscribe

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button. Other big news this week. Sloan Brothers,

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who did the theme song that you just heard on

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this podcast, has a new single out called In

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a Movie. Check it out. He's also got a new EP

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coming out. It's on Bandcamp. There's a link

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to it in the description. It's a very limited

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press on vinyl. Make sure you pre -order yours

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because it's probably going to be gone before

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it even releases. Lots of exciting things coming

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up here. I'm going to be at Flickr Bar on November

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18th to do a set there. So those of you in Athens

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who want to see some stand -up comedy of mine,

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come check it out. Lots of great things going

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on. But without further ado, here's my interview

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with Taylor Hollingsworth. Thanks for tuning

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in, y 'all. All right, you're on Overeducated

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and Underemployed. Right on. I really appreciate

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you being here. Yeah, man. Thanks for having

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me. I'm going to start with the question I ask

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everybody first, which is, what's the first song

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that you remember loving as a kid? First song

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I remember loving as a kid, maybe it was probably

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Great Balls of Fire, Jerry Lee Lewis. Hell yeah.

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Do you remember how you heard it the first time?

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I remember there's a few songs, but... I had

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a, do you remember those little pocket rockers

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that had the little tiny cassette tapes? Yeah.

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They were marketed, like I was born in 1980,

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so it was like marketed perfectly towards a kid

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my age. They were like these, it was like a boom

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box you could fit in your pocket. And it played

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these tiny cassettes, and each little cassette

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had two songs, one on each side. So, I remember

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I had two cassettes, and I know one had Great

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Balls of Fire on it, and I'm... Was it the original,

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like, the Jerry Lee Lewis version? Yeah, the

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Jerry Lee Lewis version, yeah. Because, like,

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later they started doing, like, kids versions

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of all this stuff. Oh, okay. No, this is definitely

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Jerry Lee Lewis version, and I was obsessed with

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that song. Do you remember how old you were?

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Not really. I would guess like six or seven or

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something, five or six, seven, eight, anywhere

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somewhere in that range. Yeah. Yeah. But like

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old enough to remember, but not old enough to

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like, like it for it to be super vivid or. No,

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I just have memories of, I grew up in an apartment.

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We were on the lower level and there was like

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a swimming pool that the. whole the apartment

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complex shared and it was like right by our building

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yeah and i remember i would run out my door blasting

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that song and and then there was a couple other

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songs like one of them was i want to say on the

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other side it might have been tequila okay i

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could be confusing my memory is that was so long

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That song's played, I feel like, by every middle

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school band and stuff too. I think because Pee

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Wee Herman, I don't know what year that movie

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came out, but I'm just guessing now that maybe

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that movie had come out and maybe that song was

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big because of that movie, but that could have

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been in reverse order because I don't know what

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actually year that movie came out. I just feel

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like it was a song like that. If it wasn't Tequila,

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it was something like that. I feel like Pee -Wee's

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Playhouse was a little bit later than that. Yeah,

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I'm talking about the movie. Yeah, yeah. Pee

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-Wee Herman's, Pee -Wee's Big Adventure, because

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that had that scene with the song Tequila. But

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you're very right. Could it come out after that?

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Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, and it's one of

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those things where a movie uses it because it

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was popular once, and then it, like, I feel like...

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Bohemian Rhapsody charted again when Wayne's

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World used it. Definitely. I always associated

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Great Balls of Fire, and I was born in 86, which

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is the year this movie came out, with Top Gun.

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Yeah. Because they sing it in the bar together.

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And it's not the Jerry Lee. I went back and always

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listened to the Jerry Lee Lewis version, but

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that song, just that scene of them singing it

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together in the bar in Top Gun, it's not at the

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beginning with... When they sing. So there's

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another version of that song? They don't even

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sing the whole thing. It's just Tom Cruise and

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Goose, Val Kilmer. Not Val Kilmer, but whoever

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played Goose, the guy that died. They're sitting

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in a bar with Goose's wife. And they're singing

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Great Balls. And I feel like that's the first

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time I ever heard that song. And then maybe it

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gets played in the credits or something like

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that. Yeah. But I definitely went and heard the

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original after that. Yeah. I don't think it was

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the first song I was inquisitive about, but it

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was definitely one of them. Up there, yeah. And

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I first heard it in a movie. Did you associate

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it with that movie when you were a tequila? Did

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you associate it with that movie? With Pee Wee?

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Back then, do you think? I think I did. Or the

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Pocket Rocker itself. Yeah, it's cool how...

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A device like that can. I was also really into

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the Beach Boys. Me too. Like the early, like

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Surfing Safari. I remember that was my favorite

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song. My mom would put me on her knee in the

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pool, and I'd be surfing on her knee, and she

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would sing that song. Sing that song. Yeah, yeah.

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Real young. Real young. Yeah. It was a community

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pool. I was very much into oldies music, though.

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Like that kind of golden oldies. That's what

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my mom listened to. A lot. And then my... I guess

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my dad listened to some of that stuff. Stuff

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with harmonies and stuff like that? Oh yeah,

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there's a lot of harmonies in that stuff for

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sure. But yeah, it was the simple, short form

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pop song. It was like that early, the early version

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of that. And I just loved it. I loved the...

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I still love... music from that time like it's

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still if I had to say like an era of time that

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had the most of my favorite recordings I would

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probably still pick the 50s to the early 60s

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before the before the like big psychedelic era

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which had some stuff that I really loved but

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a lot of stuff that I really don't care for now

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it's interesting you say that but I'm gonna put

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a pin in that thought until we get to now because

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uh yeah i think i hear some influence of that

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stuff on your latest record more than your previous

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stuff but but we can get there when we get there

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uh but i wanted to plant the seeds so you can

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be like oh maybe not maybe tell me how i'm wrong

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that's fine too i can tell you how i got there

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wherever it is yeah exactly exactly yeah so You

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loved music as a kid? Obviously, you had this

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device to carry music around with you. Super

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young. I loved music as a kid, for sure. I didn't

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have any even interest or thought of playing

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music at that time. I don't believe I... Ever

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touched a guitar or got my own guitar. I'm not

00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:56.899
going to say touched, but learned to play a chord

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on a guitar until I was probably like 14 years

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old. Yeah. So a good bit later, my brother, who's

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three years younger than me, he actually got

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a guitar before I did. Gotcha. And so that was

00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:20.620
maybe. A bit of a reason I got interested, but

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not really. Mostly it was an attraction towards

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the music and the bands I was listening to at

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the time and something to do socially with my

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friends. I didn't really take it very seriously

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at all. At its core, that's really what it should

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be, right? Yeah. Even when you become the guy

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that makes it, that's the goal for you, to have

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other people do that while listening to your

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music. And I know you lost your dad at a pretty

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young age, and that was a catalyst for you starting

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to play music. At least that's something I've

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read. I don't know how exactly true that is.

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It was in a couple different ways. It was in

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a way that, first of all, in a very direct way,

00:13:21.230 --> 00:13:26.389
one of my dad's best friends owned this cool

00:13:26.389 --> 00:13:28.570
guitar store in Birmingham called Highland Music.

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It's still the coolest guitar store in Birmingham.

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Hell yeah. I mean, it's like a pretty famous

00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:40.350
music store, even in the South. Yeah, maybe you've

00:13:40.350 --> 00:13:43.509
heard of it. No, I definitely have. I've been

00:13:43.509 --> 00:13:46.870
there a couple times. Cool vintage. They're like

00:13:46.870 --> 00:13:48.990
the only place you could get a really cool vintage

00:13:48.990 --> 00:13:52.730
guitar or like a cool vintage amp. He doesn't

00:13:52.730 --> 00:13:55.210
have any deals with any big corporate guitar

00:13:55.210 --> 00:13:58.850
companies or distributors like that. Like he

00:13:58.850 --> 00:14:01.549
sells a shit. It's funny because I didn't even

00:14:01.549 --> 00:14:04.129
know that part until recently when I was looking

00:14:04.129 --> 00:14:07.009
for the Strat that I bought. I knew I wanted

00:14:07.009 --> 00:14:09.970
a brand new Strat. I was like, I want a very...

00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.559
high level nice stratocaster because i was just

00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:16.019
suddenly got interested in it but i didn't want

00:14:16.019 --> 00:14:18.179
to fuck around with any with any like i just

00:14:18.179 --> 00:14:21.440
had so many guitar troubles in the recent years

00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.679
as the more i'm playing with them that was like

00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:27.320
i need something nice that i'm just i wanted

00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.940
stainless steel frets i wanted like real high

00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:33.080
quality parts to it and it's funny because i

00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:34.820
called him i was like hey man this is what i

00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:36.960
need and he was like oh yeah i don't have a deal

00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.730
with fender or anything so just order it online

00:14:39.730 --> 00:14:45.750
okay so i ordered it online and and anyway i

00:14:45.750 --> 00:14:49.929
got i love the guitar i got it i it i had to

00:14:49.929 --> 00:14:52.409
completely reset it it's funny because i ordered

00:14:52.409 --> 00:14:56.549
it from sweetwater and i paid for their pro setup

00:14:56.549 --> 00:15:00.470
that's like a few hundred extra dollars and And

00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:02.950
it was, like, the crappiest setup ever. It was,

00:15:02.990 --> 00:15:04.970
like, literally, like, such a joke of a setup.

00:15:05.149 --> 00:15:08.149
So I had to undo it all, and I just reset it

00:15:08.149 --> 00:15:11.289
up exactly. This was just recently. Oh, okay,

00:15:11.330 --> 00:15:13.629
okay. Within the last year, yeah. I got you.

00:15:13.970 --> 00:15:16.450
Sorry, we jumped around in time there. No, I'm

00:15:16.450 --> 00:15:18.889
talking about the new strap. The new strap, gotcha.

00:15:18.889 --> 00:15:21.230
Yeah, but so, sorry, to go back to what you were

00:15:21.230 --> 00:15:25.250
saying, that was a direct influence right there.

00:15:26.110 --> 00:15:31.419
Don, like, I... I had a friend down the street

00:15:31.419 --> 00:15:37.279
from me who was selling a Les Paul knockoff for

00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:40.700
50 bucks. And I had saved up money and I bought

00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:43.440
it from him because I thought it was a cool looking

00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.580
black Les Paul. I was like, okay, I want to learn

00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:47.799
how to play guitar now. That I was into like

00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:51.179
all this kind of like early grunge and rock.

00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:54.700
Whatever was really big, like Nirvana and Smashing

00:15:54.700 --> 00:15:57.110
Pumpkins. All that kind of stuff. Because you

00:15:57.110 --> 00:15:59.870
were old enough at the time to, like, really

00:15:59.870 --> 00:16:02.590
get into it. Oh, yeah, I was the prime age for

00:16:02.590 --> 00:16:06.789
it. And going through, like, watching my dad

00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:11.029
get sick and then die and living. I grew up in

00:16:11.029 --> 00:16:14.490
this, like, very, like, wealthy community that,

00:16:14.529 --> 00:16:18.429
like, but we were not. We were just living in

00:16:18.429 --> 00:16:22.889
this apartment. There's a complex here that I

00:16:22.889 --> 00:16:25.299
can very much. Very analogous. The reason we

00:16:25.299 --> 00:16:28.419
were there is because basically my parents were

00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:31.340
very young when I was born, and their family

00:16:31.340 --> 00:16:34.080
and family members had told them, you've got

00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:36.620
to have them, and that's the best school and

00:16:36.620 --> 00:16:40.860
all this stuff. So they followed that path of

00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:45.500
what they were just told to do. So we grew up

00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:49.360
around all these super rich kids, and we lived

00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.980
in this kind of crummy apartment. It was tiny.

00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:57.519
It sucked, but anyway, by the time I'm a young

00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:03.000
teenager, I'm full of angst, and I'm angry. You

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.299
don't want to be angry about. Yeah, and I'm surrounded

00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:11.079
by all these kids with these perfect lives, and

00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:16.180
I'm not only not feeling included or feeling

00:17:16.180 --> 00:17:18.599
like I belong there, but I'm also being heavily

00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.579
bullied and picked on at that time. Yeah, yeah.

00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:28.460
So I was primed for music that was sad and angry

00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:33.960
underneath it. It was made for me. Spoke to me.

00:17:34.059 --> 00:17:38.400
I think comedians have a very similar... Most

00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.799
comedians wish they could be rock stars, but

00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.119
they have to settle for being comedians. A lot

00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.900
of rock stars kind of wish they could be comedians.

00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:52.529
Yeah. Yeah, the rock star thing is... And my

00:17:52.529 --> 00:17:54.529
listeners have heard that over and over again,

00:17:54.670 --> 00:17:57.490
but I think it's true. Like, it's pretty... Like,

00:17:57.549 --> 00:18:01.329
most musicians are like, yeah, the comedy thing

00:18:01.329 --> 00:18:05.970
doesn't seem so bad. Yeah. Or they write really

00:18:05.970 --> 00:18:08.930
funny lyrics sometimes and things like that,

00:18:08.950 --> 00:18:11.890
which I think that you have definitely done.

00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:13.630
You put a lot of humor into your songs. Yeah,

00:18:13.670 --> 00:18:17.490
I like to... Yeah, now as a songwriter, I try

00:18:17.490 --> 00:18:20.910
to write... A good bit of music that I feel is

00:18:20.910 --> 00:18:25.950
just fun and makes you have a good time. To me,

00:18:25.970 --> 00:18:29.890
I get writing a sad song. I actually just wrote

00:18:29.890 --> 00:18:33.890
one a couple days ago that is just so sad and

00:18:33.890 --> 00:18:38.109
heartbreaking. A story that I came up with. But

00:18:38.109 --> 00:18:41.869
for the most part, I don't want to feel sad.

00:18:41.990 --> 00:18:46.309
I want to lose the sadness. I want to not dwell

00:18:46.309 --> 00:18:51.640
on that. which is why, when I think back to being

00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.539
a kid, the music that I loved from the 50s was

00:18:55.539 --> 00:18:58.759
that. It was this bubblegum, pop, happy, fun

00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:02.579
songs that made you feel good. Occasionally,

00:19:02.579 --> 00:19:04.880
you might get a sadder song, but for the most

00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:07.980
part... I'm thinking even Walking in the Rain.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:11.960
Lyrically, Walking in the Rain is a pretty sad

00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:18.619
song, but it's still very upbeat. Tonally and

00:19:18.619 --> 00:19:22.779
tempo wise, it's still like very, it might be

00:19:22.779 --> 00:19:24.779
in the minor key. I don't know. I'm not the guy

00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:28.799
to ask that, but, but it's still very much upbeat.

00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:35.019
Like, yeah. Joyful. And I'm wondering sometimes

00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:38.299
do you need to write a song like a sad song to

00:19:38.299 --> 00:19:40.980
deal with? To get it out of your system so that

00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:41.980
you can move on from it? I think in this case

00:19:41.980 --> 00:19:44.460
of the one I wrote the other day that I did.

00:19:44.779 --> 00:19:49.019
Yeah. That one was something that had been in

00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:54.319
my mind for a while, and I had thought on it

00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:58.339
for a long time and how I would do it in my own

00:19:58.339 --> 00:20:02.519
way, and it never came to me until I heard a

00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:04.940
couple other songs that inspired it. Yeah. It

00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:08.470
was almost like a response to those. Do you write

00:20:08.470 --> 00:20:12.069
mostly about real things that you've encountered

00:20:12.069 --> 00:20:15.670
or do you write a lot of kind of fictional stories

00:20:15.670 --> 00:20:19.369
or how do you approach that? I mostly write fiction,

00:20:19.450 --> 00:20:27.049
but I splice in real stuff that I have either

00:20:27.049 --> 00:20:31.910
experienced personally or basically, yeah, I've

00:20:31.910 --> 00:20:33.750
experienced personally, like, especially if I

00:20:33.750 --> 00:20:39.000
want to. Overall, the story will be fiction and

00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.000
kind of something I'm coming up with in my mind

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:46.799
and vending on my own. But if I want to, say,

00:20:46.900 --> 00:20:50.759
close out a phrase with a very powerful line

00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:56.660
that I want people to relate to and I want it

00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:59.619
to really hit them in the gut, that's when I'll

00:20:59.619 --> 00:21:03.769
put in a... line that's personal to me or that's

00:21:03.769 --> 00:21:08.049
happened because typically if it has happened

00:21:08.049 --> 00:21:12.049
to me and gotten to me it's gonna also have happened

00:21:12.049 --> 00:21:16.730
to others or sure be relatable to others yeah

00:21:16.730 --> 00:21:21.089
i bj barham who hasn't been on the podcast yet

00:21:21.089 --> 00:21:25.210
but i was talking to him after he gave a talk

00:21:25.210 --> 00:21:29.750
with with chuck reese from salvation south We

00:21:29.750 --> 00:21:32.170
have a fest here that he gets to curate a stage

00:21:32.170 --> 00:21:36.049
for every year. Hopefully, maybe he'll bring

00:21:36.049 --> 00:21:38.130
you onto that stage next year. That would be

00:21:38.130 --> 00:21:41.369
awesome. Yeah. But I feel like you're the perfect,

00:21:41.509 --> 00:21:43.230
like, I'm, like, thinking about you. That's the

00:21:43.230 --> 00:21:46.710
perfect place for you to play. But BJ was doing,

00:21:46.769 --> 00:21:49.890
like, a Q &A, songwriters in the round kind of

00:21:49.890 --> 00:21:52.069
thing, and he said, yeah, something similar.

00:21:52.369 --> 00:21:55.130
Most of his songs are, like, especially these

00:21:55.130 --> 00:21:58.450
days, they're, like, fictional. Yeah. But there's

00:21:58.450 --> 00:22:03.190
always. at least one line that is like pure truth.

00:22:03.450 --> 00:22:09.109
And that kind of brings the authenticity to what

00:22:09.109 --> 00:22:11.930
he's doing too, to what he's singing about. Right.

00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:16.230
So let's go back for a second. You're listening

00:22:16.230 --> 00:22:19.190
to a lot of grunge and stuff like that when you

00:22:19.190 --> 00:22:20.789
pick up a guitar for the first time. Is that

00:22:20.789 --> 00:22:23.549
right? Yeah, when I pick up the guitar for the

00:22:23.549 --> 00:22:28.109
first time, yeah, that's what I was going for.

00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:31.559
I think one of the first songs I learned was

00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:33.859
probably like Smells Like Teen Spirit or something.

00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:37.859
Yeah. I think the very first thing I learned

00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:40.599
was actually Tom Petty, Free Fallin', because

00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:44.000
it was that D chord shape. And that's, even though

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.940
that's actually not how he plays it, but it sounds

00:22:46.940 --> 00:22:49.519
like it. So it sounds real easy. It's like close,

00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.940
yeah. It's real easy and a beginner can do that.

00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:55.660
I think that was the first thing like a friend

00:22:55.660 --> 00:23:00.079
of mine showed me, but. As soon as my dad died

00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:03.160
and I bought that guitar, the owner of Highland

00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.519
Music, he gave me and my brother free lessons

00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.440
for a good six months. Yeah. Just to give us

00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:15.160
something to do and keep us busy. Right. And

00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.940
he, I think day one, like they were tuning my

00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:20.279
guitar for me and the tuner fell off. It just

00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:23.319
broke off. Oh no. And he just. Threw it in the

00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:25.359
trash. And this is the Les Paul copy that you

00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:27.299
bought? Yeah, the rip -off. He threw it in the

00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:30.519
trash, and he picked another guitar up off the

00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:33.579
wall, which was a Washburn. That's what I've

00:23:33.579 --> 00:23:36.920
got. Yeah, which was like this Washburn, which

00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.359
I didn't like because the headstock always weighted

00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:43.099
down. But it was still much nicer. It had real

00:23:43.099 --> 00:23:46.299
metal tuner. It would hold its tune. They make

00:23:46.299 --> 00:23:49.579
all solid bodies. Cool, it's actually the Washburn

00:23:49.579 --> 00:23:52.140
that I've seen now. There's all these early videos

00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:54.640
of R .L. Burnside. He was playing that same one,

00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:57.799
which I think is super cool. Of course, I didn't

00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.359
know who he was back then, but yeah, it's that

00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.799
same one. Yeah, no, I love it. He's all skinny,

00:24:04.940 --> 00:24:08.359
and he's playing out in his yard. You find the

00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:10.440
video where he's playing this electric Washburn?

00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:14.660
It's that one. Okay. I'm going to find it. That's

00:24:14.660 --> 00:24:16.279
what I'm going to do after your show tonight.

00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:19.940
I'm stoked that you're playing at the Blue Tavern.

00:24:19.940 --> 00:24:22.500
It's a venue here in town, and I promised Kerry

00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:24.460
I'd mention it, so I'm going to right now. I'm

00:24:24.460 --> 00:24:26.420
going to make sure I do it. It's a venue in town

00:24:26.420 --> 00:24:28.900
that really focuses a lot on local artists, to

00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:31.859
be honest with you. That's great. It's not often

00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:35.359
that they get a lot of touring musicians in there,

00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:42.660
so this is a treat for the venue, but also it's

00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:45.099
where all the musicians hang out. I've heard

00:24:45.099 --> 00:24:47.880
really good things about it. It's great, man.

00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:51.160
It's a really community -based spot. Yeah. And

00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.000
like I said, it's like where all the musicians

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:56.299
in town hang out, too. It's not just where they

00:24:56.299 --> 00:24:58.759
play, but they're there most nights for happy

00:24:58.759 --> 00:25:03.519
hour and that sort of thing. It's cool. They

00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:10.380
have a really good culture of listening, not

00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:13.079
talking through shows, which I think is really...

00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:17.200
rare yeah a lot of the time you'll get dirty

00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:21.279
looks if you talk everybody's got a comment to

00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.619
make to their friend or whatever but if you start

00:25:23.619 --> 00:25:26.420
trying to have a full -on conversation yeah you're

00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:28.980
gonna start to get dirty looks in there yeah

00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:32.099
it's a really great spot man so i'm really stoked

00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:34.799
to see you in there tonight i'm excited carrie's

00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:39.039
worked really hard to build a place that's like

00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:41.880
a safe haven from all the bullshit out there

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:46.069
yeah It's a good spot. If you're going to land

00:25:46.069 --> 00:25:48.430
in a random spot in Tallahassee, that's the place

00:25:48.430 --> 00:25:51.309
to be. Yeah. What are you doing on this tour

00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:55.549
right now? Are you, like, what's the trajectory?

00:25:56.630 --> 00:26:00.470
What are you? The goal or whatever. Maybe not

00:26:00.470 --> 00:26:02.789
externally, but maybe more so, like, internally.

00:26:03.029 --> 00:26:09.069
What are you working on? The goal is running.

00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:14.880
My own small little business, and I've been doing

00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:20.259
this for a long time. My daughter's 12, about

00:26:20.259 --> 00:26:27.359
to be 13. So up until this last year, I had quit

00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:31.940
all the touring I had been doing and just played

00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:35.039
as a local musician in Birmingham. Gotcha, yeah.

00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:37.750
It's been a long time since I'd seen you play

00:26:37.750 --> 00:26:41.109
out. I saw you last year at Earl, this year up

00:26:41.109 --> 00:26:45.130
at the Dial Back Sound Showcase that they had

00:26:45.130 --> 00:26:50.109
at Flickr as part of the homecoming. Yeah. Heathens

00:26:50.109 --> 00:26:52.829
homecoming thing up next door to the 40 watt.

00:26:53.109 --> 00:26:55.910
But that's like the only time I've seen you play

00:26:55.910 --> 00:26:58.349
outside of Birmingham and are written before

00:26:58.349 --> 00:27:02.509
then in a long time. Maybe immediately before

00:27:02.509 --> 00:27:04.750
then, but up in. Up until the last year or so.

00:27:05.130 --> 00:27:08.650
Yeah, so for about half that time of playing

00:27:08.650 --> 00:27:12.990
local, I was doing it as a duo with my friend

00:27:12.990 --> 00:27:16.710
Alan, who was the drummer for Dead Fingers. That

00:27:16.710 --> 00:27:21.150
was me and my wife's band. Yeah. And then about

00:27:21.150 --> 00:27:25.130
halfway through, right around when COVID happened,

00:27:25.430 --> 00:27:29.549
there was nothing, no gigs for about a year.

00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:32.769
And then when I came back out of that, I decided

00:27:32.769 --> 00:27:37.849
I wanted to just push solo with that little foot

00:27:37.849 --> 00:27:43.069
stomp. My whole life I had been watching guys

00:27:43.069 --> 00:27:47.309
play one -man shows. I remember all the way back

00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:51.130
to being probably 10, 11, 12 years old, my dad

00:27:51.130 --> 00:27:56.190
was really into this guy Chris Smither, an incredible

00:27:56.190 --> 00:28:03.059
player, guitar player. and songwriter and he

00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:05.740
does like a foot tap thing he doesn't do it like

00:28:05.740 --> 00:28:09.619
a lower kick drum sound like i do yeah yeah but

00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:13.660
i was very i had i remember early on just always

00:28:13.660 --> 00:28:16.579
thinking like how cool that was and as i got

00:28:16.579 --> 00:28:19.779
older and playing i've for years i was playing

00:28:19.779 --> 00:28:24.019
with all these bands and i had my own solo sort

00:28:24.019 --> 00:28:27.119
of three -piece punk band rock and roll band

00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:31.500
or whatever for a little while and that did pretty

00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:34.920
surprisingly we actually did a pretty good for

00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:39.039
that but yeah yeah i saw that band yeah oh cool

00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:45.240
we did that for as long as it could last basically

00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:49.779
shortly after that died it was when i started

00:28:49.779 --> 00:28:52.200
playing with conor robertson the mystic valley

00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.059
band and then after that was like then dead fingers

00:28:55.059 --> 00:28:58.039
pretty much and then Then we had our daughter

00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:01.599
and got married and settled down, got a house

00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:04.940
and stuff. At that point is when I was like,

00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:09.619
okay, I either am going to have to like basically

00:29:09.619 --> 00:29:12.420
get a real job and either quit playing music

00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:14.859
or I'm going to have to figure out how to make

00:29:14.859 --> 00:29:18.720
a living playing as a local musician. And I knew

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.539
people that did that. So that was appealing to

00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:23.880
me because I don't have a very, I didn't go to

00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:28.369
college. I went for one year. did horrible didn't

00:29:28.369 --> 00:29:31.829
try at all but yeah yeah i just wasn't at all

00:29:31.829 --> 00:29:36.009
inspired or interested in it but i was only interested

00:29:36.009 --> 00:29:39.069
in the classes that i was interested in yeah

00:29:39.069 --> 00:29:43.849
i really even at that even that i was like not

00:29:43.849 --> 00:29:47.789
i was only at that time i was just purely interested

00:29:47.789 --> 00:29:52.650
in playing guitar and trying to work my way into

00:29:52.650 --> 00:29:55.799
a real band As a guitar player. I wasn't trying

00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.200
to write songs at that time. But anyway. That

00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.059
was actually going to be my next question. You

00:30:01.059 --> 00:30:07.759
start playing guitar. 14, 15. And you're really

00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:10.799
just a guitar player. For quite some time. Yeah.

00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:14.259
And then when did you start writing your own

00:30:14.259 --> 00:30:21.000
songs? So I. Somehow did pretty good as a guitar.

00:30:21.180 --> 00:30:25.849
Like for all those years of. say 14 to say 19

00:30:25.849 --> 00:30:30.690
or 20 I was like pretty good at guitar I really

00:30:30.690 --> 00:30:34.950
didn't work hard at it or practice at all I jammed

00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:37.869
like with my friends and stuff I thought I was

00:30:37.869 --> 00:30:42.349
way better than I actually was like you you know

00:30:42.349 --> 00:30:45.910
I certainly now know I didn't know shit then

00:30:45.910 --> 00:30:48.849
which I thought I was like oh this is easy for

00:30:48.849 --> 00:30:51.250
me that's the Dunning -Kruger effect right like

00:30:51.250 --> 00:30:54.170
the more The better you get at something, the

00:30:54.170 --> 00:30:57.630
worse you feel at it. The more you know about

00:30:57.630 --> 00:30:59.890
it, the more you know that you don't know. That's

00:30:59.890 --> 00:31:03.430
definitely happening. The less you know, the

00:31:03.430 --> 00:31:08.009
more you think you're an expert. That happened

00:31:08.009 --> 00:31:10.650
to me for sure. It's happening to America. It

00:31:10.650 --> 00:31:13.690
is happening to America. You're right. Once I

00:31:13.690 --> 00:31:15.730
had an opportunity to play. There were these

00:31:15.730 --> 00:31:18.109
guys I worked with in this little bagel shop.

00:31:18.309 --> 00:31:21.309
They were signed to this indie label. I was like,

00:31:21.690 --> 00:31:25.029
very wowed by them wow these guys are actually

00:31:25.029 --> 00:31:27.529
what band was that they were called flair okay

00:31:27.529 --> 00:31:29.730
and they were this local birmingham band that

00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:34.470
i thought was just super cool and they gave me

00:31:34.470 --> 00:31:38.769
a shot like to audition for their band and i

00:31:38.769 --> 00:31:42.009
failed the first audition but we worked together

00:31:42.009 --> 00:31:45.210
and they really liked me as a person yeah so

00:31:45.210 --> 00:31:48.769
they Their bass player, his name was Adam Snable.

00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:53.049
He was a super nice guy. He actually really pushed

00:31:53.049 --> 00:31:55.670
me to keep practicing. He was like, just keep

00:31:55.670 --> 00:31:57.990
practicing those songs. Get them down really

00:31:57.990 --> 00:31:59.589
good. I'm going to talk the guys into letting

00:31:59.589 --> 00:32:02.609
you have one more shot. And they did. They gave

00:32:02.609 --> 00:32:05.210
me one more shot. And then I passed it that time.

00:32:05.309 --> 00:32:08.569
And I got in the band. And I was so excited.

00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:12.809
So I was probably about 20 or something. Yeah,

00:32:12.910 --> 00:32:14.529
about 20 years old. It was about the year 2000.

00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:17.460
Yeah. About the year 2000. And then that band

00:32:17.460 --> 00:32:21.180
broke up pretty much immediately before their

00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:23.579
record even came out on the label that they had

00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:25.539
just gotten signed to. Was that a shock to you,

00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:30.359
or did you expect it? I was a little shocked

00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:35.779
at how far they had come to not pursue it, but

00:32:35.779 --> 00:32:39.380
I also knew the singer, the main guy who was

00:32:39.380 --> 00:32:43.299
the songwriter, I knew he was... I could tell

00:32:43.299 --> 00:32:47.779
he was having some... ethical and moral confusion

00:32:47.779 --> 00:32:53.519
like with the whole rock and roll and being in

00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.599
a band lifestyle to begin with the whole picture

00:32:56.599 --> 00:33:00.779
of it gotcha so i in that way i wasn't that shocked

00:33:00.779 --> 00:33:05.339
but they had actually taught me about the two

00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:09.160
other cool bands from the area which at the time

00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:11.960
that i mean there are plenty more cool bands

00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:15.029
but they taught me about two of them This band

00:33:15.029 --> 00:33:17.710
called Verbena and this band called The Dexatines.

00:33:18.349 --> 00:33:23.410
Both of those bands I got into as well. So Verbena

00:33:23.410 --> 00:33:28.670
asked me to play after Flair. And that was like

00:33:28.670 --> 00:33:31.869
the real deal type shit. It was like, wow, they

00:33:31.869 --> 00:33:36.549
were actually signed to Capitol Records. As soon

00:33:36.549 --> 00:33:39.410
as I got in the band, we flew to L .A. to work

00:33:39.410 --> 00:33:44.359
on this huge production record. by this guy Rob

00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:46.880
Schnauf was the producer. You probably know who

00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:49.859
he is. He did Elliott Smith records. He did Beck

00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:53.240
records. He was like, this is capital rec. Right,

00:33:53.259 --> 00:33:56.759
yeah. This is the people that... It's the big

00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:00.180
time. Yeah, and they did that Dandy Warhols.

00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:03.160
Yeah. This is around the same time they're doing

00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:06.400
that Dandy Warhols. Yeah, and this band was similar

00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:11.440
a little bit stylistically, like, or at least...

00:34:11.710 --> 00:34:13.769
I don't know if you've seen Dig. Vibe -wise,

00:34:14.110 --> 00:34:16.550
yeah, I've seen Dig. I actually can't stand the

00:34:16.550 --> 00:34:20.429
Dandy Warhols. Me, I like Brian Jonestown. I

00:34:20.429 --> 00:34:23.929
like Brian Jonestown. But that's what's going

00:34:23.929 --> 00:34:26.550
on, and it's around the same time. It's Capitol

00:34:26.550 --> 00:34:29.050
Records, early 2000s. Yeah, totally, totally.

00:34:29.230 --> 00:34:31.690
And they're putting $100 ,000 into a music video.

00:34:32.429 --> 00:34:35.630
Totally, exactly. So anyway, what happened was

00:34:35.630 --> 00:34:38.510
I got in that band, but then I got out there.

00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:45.579
The singer was like this just very, like, manipulating

00:34:45.579 --> 00:34:50.699
and controlling kind of guy. And he basically,

00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:53.659
he wouldn't let me play on the record, really.

00:34:53.739 --> 00:34:55.760
Or they weren't asking me, and I was like, I'm

00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:58.420
not going to go beg. But they weren't, like,

00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.579
asking me to play. So I was just out there twiddling

00:35:01.579 --> 00:35:05.760
my thumbs, doing nothing. I got, I'm pretty stubborn.

00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:09.739
I was not very happy with the situation. Once

00:35:09.739 --> 00:35:11.579
we came back to Birmingham, we were supposed

00:35:11.579 --> 00:35:15.119
to do this like demo session to then fly back

00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.940
out and do the second session of recordings.

00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:22.039
And I just didn't show up to the demo sessions.

00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:25.820
And then the singer took that as a big old fuck

00:35:25.820 --> 00:35:29.079
you. And I was like, this little kid's not going

00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:31.880
to. even show up I'm like yeah I didn't show

00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:33.619
up because y 'all haven't had me do anything

00:35:33.619 --> 00:35:36.920
what am I showing up for why am I even going

00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:39.179
out there just like being a photo or something

00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:45.139
so that quickly ended he had the other guys come

00:35:45.139 --> 00:35:47.340
to my house and tell me I was like out of the

00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:51.599
band that was so stupid I'm like yeah no shit

00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.159
that was total high school shit and this guy's

00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.960
10 years older than me at the time So anyway,

00:35:56.980 --> 00:36:01.059
I thought it was so dumb. But around that time,

00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:04.320
Matt Patton, I'd met him at the Knick hanging

00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.099
out. And me and him became like best friends

00:36:07.099 --> 00:36:10.860
immediately. And he was in the Dexateens, original

00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:13.420
member. And at that time, they were still very

00:36:13.420 --> 00:36:16.380
much a punk band. Oh, yeah. It was like around

00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:20.489
just before Single Wives came out. This is what

00:36:20.489 --> 00:36:23.989
we refer to as the Headphones record. It has

00:36:23.989 --> 00:36:26.210
headphones on the front. I do know that record,

00:36:26.250 --> 00:36:27.630
yeah. But it's just self -titled. It's just called

00:36:27.630 --> 00:36:30.329
Dexatines. It came out on Estrus, which was a

00:36:30.329 --> 00:36:34.210
cool garage punk label based out of somewhere

00:36:34.210 --> 00:36:36.449
around Seattle. I can't remember what town, but

00:36:36.449 --> 00:36:38.650
right on the coast up there. My boss bought me

00:36:38.650 --> 00:36:41.730
that record at Vinyl Fever for my 18th birthday.

00:36:42.349 --> 00:36:45.670
Killer record. Yeah, it really, yeah. And that

00:36:45.670 --> 00:36:48.539
was like, he was like, Are you getting into Americana?

00:36:48.579 --> 00:36:51.559
Listen to this shit. Yeah. And this was really

00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:55.099
before even they went in the Americana direction.

00:36:55.099 --> 00:36:56.760
No, he was like a garage rock singer. They were

00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:59.820
twangy sometimes. Oh, definitely twangy. Yeah.

00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:02.920
That's what made him stand out. So anyway, that

00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:06.340
guitar player, John Smith, who's an incredible

00:37:06.340 --> 00:37:10.800
guitar player, he was just very kind to me. All

00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:14.150
those guys were just very nice to me. He told

00:37:14.150 --> 00:37:16.389
the other guys, he was like, this is the perfect

00:37:16.389 --> 00:37:20.550
guy. He was moving to another city to teach art

00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:24.769
at a university. And he was like, this kid's

00:37:24.769 --> 00:37:27.289
going to be perfect for the band. He'll cover

00:37:27.289 --> 00:37:29.730
what I was doing with the twangy leads and all

00:37:29.730 --> 00:37:34.829
that. So I did, and we did some cool shows. We

00:37:34.829 --> 00:37:37.250
went to England and played like a week there

00:37:37.250 --> 00:37:40.090
and played a lot around the South and stuff.

00:37:40.630 --> 00:37:44.730
But around that time, I was starting to know.

00:37:44.989 --> 00:37:48.250
I guess I had already started when I exited Verbena.

00:37:48.429 --> 00:37:53.349
I got it in my head that all these people I know

00:37:53.349 --> 00:37:56.969
have gotten to this level and they're writing

00:37:56.969 --> 00:37:59.409
their own songs and they're doing everything

00:37:59.409 --> 00:38:04.210
themselves. And I realized at that time that

00:38:04.210 --> 00:38:06.789
I was probably only going to really be happy

00:38:06.789 --> 00:38:11.179
if I... was doing everything myself, I didn't

00:38:11.179 --> 00:38:14.300
just want to be a sideman anymore. I didn't like

00:38:14.300 --> 00:38:17.940
being able to just be replaced or feel easily

00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:22.579
replaceable. So that's when I basically was like,

00:38:22.659 --> 00:38:25.179
I'm going to teach myself how to write songs.

00:38:25.659 --> 00:38:28.900
And I remember I had just gotten a credit card

00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:32.219
not long before that, and I swiped it and I bought

00:38:32.219 --> 00:38:37.800
a Tascam 4 -track, like a SM58, a drum machine.

00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:43.460
a bunch of cables, an entire PA system so I could

00:38:43.460 --> 00:38:48.579
have practices all in one swipe. And I was a

00:38:48.579 --> 00:38:50.960
little scared. I was spending a lot of money.

00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:53.179
Of course, now it's really not that much money.

00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:57.579
But for the time, for me, $1 ,500 was like a

00:38:57.579 --> 00:39:00.920
lot of money. But I didn't care. I was like,

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:03.099
all right, I have to have these things and I

00:39:03.099 --> 00:39:05.719
have to have them now. And nobody's going to

00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.110
give me this money. There was a certain part

00:39:08.110 --> 00:39:09.949
of you that I can tell you, like, you wanted

00:39:09.949 --> 00:39:13.309
to do it, maybe not perfectly, but you wanted

00:39:13.309 --> 00:39:17.429
to have the right stuff from the beginning. In

00:39:17.429 --> 00:39:20.949
a way, I wasn't, at that time, I wasn't, like,

00:39:20.969 --> 00:39:23.599
I didn't care about having, like. really cool

00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:26.679
vintage gear or anything like that but i guess

00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:29.000
more like you you wanted to have everything you

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.340
needed i wanted to have everything i needed for

00:39:31.340 --> 00:39:34.119
sure yeah yeah so i got basically self -sufficient

00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:37.219
lowest level of everything i needed so i could

00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:40.400
be completely self -sufficient yeah exactly so

00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.480
once i made that record four track record my

00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.980
friend travis morgan in birmingham had just started

00:39:47.980 --> 00:39:51.139
this label called sky bucket records ended up

00:39:51.139 --> 00:39:53.000
putting out some of the Dexatines records and

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.840
a bunch of cool bands from Birmingham. So my

00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.559
album that I made was his first release. Oh,

00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:01.960
wow. So we were like, we had been friends for

00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:04.679
years. We met in elementary school. Like, we

00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:09.039
went way back. So it was like a little bit of

00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:12.019
a friend -team partnership. Let's see how we

00:40:12.019 --> 00:40:15.380
can do it. And we handmade every CD package and

00:40:15.380 --> 00:40:19.820
wrote on every one of them. It sounds so much

00:40:19.820 --> 00:40:21.679
like the bands I was hanging out with around

00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:24.639
that same time. Yeah. We were burning CDs. Yeah,

00:40:24.659 --> 00:40:27.239
and there wasn't streaming yet. No. We were going

00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:30.920
to the mall and handing out CDs and flyers. Yeah.

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:33.719
I remember my first review, I dropped it off

00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:36.780
at the local paper, which was called the Black

00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:41.139
and White in Birmingham. And I had a cassette

00:40:41.139 --> 00:40:43.860
tape that I had made, and every cassette tape

00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:48.219
I wrote on whiteout. That was the name of the

00:40:48.219 --> 00:40:53.460
cassette in actual whiteout. And the review,

00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:55.960
the guy was like, I don't even know what to say.

00:40:56.139 --> 00:40:58.920
There's whiteout crumbling all over my desk.

00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:02.960
But he gave me this glowing review. But he was

00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:06.880
like, at the same time as this handmade crappy

00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:11.780
CD and cassette tape is falling apart on my desk

00:41:11.780 --> 00:41:16.699
as I open it, I put it in my stereo. And I think

00:41:16.699 --> 00:41:20.000
it might be the coolest garage rock music I've

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:23.099
ever heard from Birmingham, Alabama. So I got

00:41:23.099 --> 00:41:26.980
this, like, immediately, like, locally, I got

00:41:26.980 --> 00:41:30.260
this immediate, like, glowing review from...

00:41:30.260 --> 00:41:34.920
And this paper was known to, like, kind of bash...

00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:37.800
Kind of like Pitchfork. Yeah, on a local level,

00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:41.519
they would just trash local music and trash...

00:41:42.139 --> 00:41:43.960
Music that was touring through that they were

00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:45.980
writing about or whatever, too. So it was hard

00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:47.840
to get a good review out of them. So when people

00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:50.579
saw that, they were like, whoa, what the hell,

00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:55.239
dude? Well, and it could have been the last tape

00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:59.739
that player ever got to play. Sure. Very likely.

00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:04.639
Maybe unintended consequences. Yeah, very likely.

00:42:04.820 --> 00:42:07.219
So then how did you end up getting linked up

00:42:07.219 --> 00:42:09.760
with Conor Oberst after that? Because this is

00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.050
probably. Two or three years before that, I'm

00:42:12.050 --> 00:42:16.030
guessing? Yeah. So this would have been around...

00:42:16.030 --> 00:42:20.409
So now we're probably at 2003. Okay. Like a couple

00:42:20.409 --> 00:42:22.909
years after those other bands. And he's about

00:42:22.909 --> 00:42:25.070
to put out I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning, which

00:42:25.070 --> 00:42:31.409
is... Yeah, so... So I met... He was dating my

00:42:31.409 --> 00:42:36.949
now, who I'm married to, her sister. Okay. Maria

00:42:36.949 --> 00:42:41.489
Taylor. So I met her through... that verbena

00:42:41.489 --> 00:42:44.369
crowd and all because she was more like in their

00:42:44.369 --> 00:42:48.170
age group gotcha gotcha and we became friends

00:42:48.170 --> 00:42:53.750
and she actually brought connor i was playing

00:42:53.750 --> 00:42:58.170
in atlanta at the earl yeah i love the earl yeah

00:42:58.170 --> 00:43:02.550
i was playing a show there with my band and that

00:43:02.550 --> 00:43:05.230
was taylor in the i'm sorry at the time that

00:43:05.230 --> 00:43:07.070
was probably just called taylor hollingsworth

00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:10.119
but it was still like a rock band It might have

00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:11.559
been called Taylor Hollingsworth and the Spider

00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:13.639
Eaters, but I don't think it was the Spider Eaters

00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:20.619
yet. Okay. But, so, yeah, Connor and Maria came

00:43:20.619 --> 00:43:25.099
to the Earl to see me play. And that night, me

00:43:25.099 --> 00:43:29.400
and Connor hung out all night long. Like, just,

00:43:29.500 --> 00:43:32.920
we were, like, immediately just. We got super

00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:35.840
drunk together, and we were just, like, hugging

00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:39.230
each other all night. We were just, like. Best

00:43:39.230 --> 00:43:44.769
friends immediately. Rad bromance. So he came

00:43:44.769 --> 00:43:48.269
down for Christmas that year to Birmingham with

00:43:48.269 --> 00:43:51.289
his family to have Christmas with her family.

00:43:51.869 --> 00:43:55.889
And he threw, like, an impromptu Bright Eyes

00:43:55.889 --> 00:43:59.090
show that was, like, announced, like, the day

00:43:59.090 --> 00:44:01.409
before or the day of or some shit and literally

00:44:01.409 --> 00:44:03.829
still sold out like this huge price. Yeah, of

00:44:03.829 --> 00:44:07.809
course. And he didn't have his band, so he was

00:44:07.809 --> 00:44:11.679
like, will you play guitar for that show? And

00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.780
he built a band out of Maria's family, so it

00:44:14.780 --> 00:44:19.940
ended up being her brother, her dad, her sister,

00:44:20.019 --> 00:44:22.559
which is Kate, who at the time was dating somebody

00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:26.860
else, now my wife. So anyway, I ended up playing

00:44:26.860 --> 00:44:30.280
guitar. Ended up being this incredible show.

00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:33.639
Even Gillian Welch and David Rawlings drove down

00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:36.500
from Nashville and played with us on the stage.

00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:40.840
Oh, wow. I'm nowhere, especially at the time,

00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:43.840
I'm still not, but especially at the time, nowhere

00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:47.820
even, none of us were in the league of Gillian

00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:54.579
and Dave, like musicianship wise. But they came,

00:44:54.659 --> 00:44:56.920
we played, we all played together. We had this

00:44:56.920 --> 00:45:02.780
just super magical, fun night. And then we, yeah,

00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:05.880
we just kept in touch. And then a couple years

00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:09.179
later. A lot of things were going on. My mom

00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.420
then got sick. She passed away. I was trying

00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:16.000
to start this musical career, but at the same

00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.500
time, I moved back into my house to take care

00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:25.099
of her. I was there until she died. Shortly after

00:45:25.099 --> 00:45:31.579
that, I got mixed up pretty bad on drugs with

00:45:31.579 --> 00:45:37.260
another group of friends I had for years. At

00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:42.539
some point, Macy Taylor, who was my wife's brother,

00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.300
he had been invited by Connor to go to Mexico

00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:51.019
to record this first solo record. And Macy was

00:45:51.019 --> 00:45:53.820
like, I remember he called me and he was like,

00:45:54.380 --> 00:45:57.380
you should just fly down to Mexico. You just,

00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:00.059
you got to get out of Birmingham. You can't be

00:46:00.059 --> 00:46:02.519
there. You're not, you got to get away from those

00:46:02.519 --> 00:46:05.659
people. And I knew that I needed to as well.

00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:10.139
I had no intentions of playing guitar or anything

00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:12.360
on that record. I just was trying to get away.

00:46:12.820 --> 00:46:15.480
So I flew down to Mexico. I actually had another

00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.900
friend who was living in Mexico City at the time,

00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:21.360
Josh Johnson, cool garage rocker. He was in this

00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.179
band, The Spins. Plays with a bunch of bands.

00:46:24.820 --> 00:46:27.639
Paint fumes and stuff like that, like real garage

00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:31.900
punk. Super sweet guy. We were really good buddies

00:46:31.900 --> 00:46:35.500
back then, and I stayed with him for... three

00:46:35.500 --> 00:46:37.920
to four days or something like that in his apartment

00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.980
in mexico city and then i drove down or got a

00:46:41.980 --> 00:46:45.199
bus i didn't record took a bus figured out how

00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:47.559
to get down to this town called tape hot salon

00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:52.599
where connor had rented out this compound to

00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:56.320
set up a studio in have everybody have a place

00:46:56.320 --> 00:46:59.019
to live for the whole like month or whatever

00:46:59.019 --> 00:47:03.280
and when i got there Connor was like, hey, man,

00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:06.340
I saved you a couple of tracks to play guitar

00:47:06.340 --> 00:47:10.699
solos. And I was like, oh. I had no clue that

00:47:10.699 --> 00:47:14.079
was going to happen. So I laid down the guitars,

00:47:14.179 --> 00:47:19.960
and it went very easily and quickly. He had a

00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:23.780
lot of the LA pros with him, and I think they

00:47:23.780 --> 00:47:26.860
were impressed that I could just jump in and

00:47:26.860 --> 00:47:30.550
do that. Yeah, yeah. So I think the combination

00:47:30.550 --> 00:47:33.610
of that going well and everything. And it probably

00:47:33.610 --> 00:47:36.550
built a lot of confidence for yourself too. Yeah,

00:47:36.570 --> 00:47:38.630
it built some confidence. At that time I had

00:47:38.630 --> 00:47:41.670
confidence. I was more confident then than I

00:47:41.670 --> 00:47:46.250
am now. But you were not doing well. It doesn't

00:47:46.250 --> 00:47:50.909
sound like. I was like, I was not doing well

00:47:50.909 --> 00:47:57.309
with drugs. Mentally, I was still okay. Okay.

00:47:58.099 --> 00:48:02.159
Because I hadn't even dealt with any of it yet.

00:48:02.579 --> 00:48:06.800
Gotcha. It's the same thing I did after my dad

00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.880
died. I had a bad drug problem then too. I did

00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:15.119
that stuff to remove myself from the pain and

00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:20.920
not address it at all. It was some sort of arrested

00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.059
development or something. I just put it in a

00:48:24.059 --> 00:48:27.880
box somewhere in the side of my head. and left

00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:32.860
it there and didn't ever deal with it. You know

00:48:32.860 --> 00:48:36.179
what I mean? Yeah, no. Honestly, I'm probably

00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.739
just now dealing with a lot of that within the

00:48:38.739 --> 00:48:43.920
last few years. So, as I've, like, finally gotten

00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:47.119
off of all the drugs I was on for years. But,

00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:51.539
so, at that time, though, I played the guitar,

00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:56.530
did that. Connor... sent me an email or his management

00:48:56.530 --> 00:48:59.650
did or something like hey he's requested that

00:48:59.650 --> 00:49:03.110
you do these tours and it was like this long

00:49:03.110 --> 00:49:05.429
list of tours and it was like really good payment

00:49:05.429 --> 00:49:07.469
and everything and I had never seen anything

00:49:07.469 --> 00:49:10.889
like that I was like yes like I need to do that

00:49:10.889 --> 00:49:13.989
I had just been dropped from my booking agent

00:49:13.989 --> 00:49:17.150
because I had a good booking agent for a year

00:49:17.150 --> 00:49:21.860
of course I was a complete alcoholic and drug

00:49:21.860 --> 00:49:25.119
addict so i did not handle that very well and

00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:27.500
you weren't like being able to like save a lot

00:49:27.500 --> 00:49:30.219
of money or anything oh i had no yeah no yeah

00:49:30.219 --> 00:49:33.579
nothing but i didn't care i didn't need money

00:49:33.579 --> 00:49:35.780
at that time i didn't even have and you'd learned

00:49:35.780 --> 00:49:38.280
that you could survive it i didn't even live

00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:41.320
anywhere i just crashed a friend i was like a

00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:45.559
complete transient i didn't like i didn't even

00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:49.480
care to have a place i had nothing i had uh this

00:49:49.480 --> 00:49:52.940
place i rented We called it the gravel pit. It

00:49:52.940 --> 00:49:56.360
was like the women's bathhouse out in the grounds

00:49:56.360 --> 00:49:59.340
of an old blast furnace that was just decrepit

00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:01.679
and falling apart. They rented out these little

00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:04.480
spaces for artists, like little art studios.

00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:08.780
No running water, nothing in there. It was a

00:50:08.780 --> 00:50:11.639
cinder block little square building that I had

00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:15.300
everything in. It was like a storage unit. It

00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:19.050
was $50 a month. And I could keep all my shit

00:50:19.050 --> 00:50:22.789
in there, and I had a twin mattress on the floor,

00:50:22.989 --> 00:50:27.510
concrete floor, cinder block walls. No power.

00:50:28.050 --> 00:50:30.570
No, there was power, but there was no water.

00:50:30.809 --> 00:50:33.230
I had to go to the gas station up the street

00:50:33.230 --> 00:50:35.030
to use the bathroom or do anything like that.

00:50:35.570 --> 00:50:39.730
But there was power, so yeah, that was what I

00:50:39.730 --> 00:50:41.769
told him. I needed power. I was like, I'm going

00:50:41.769 --> 00:50:45.150
to practice music out here. That was my reason

00:50:45.150 --> 00:50:47.710
to have the place. That's all I had, though,

00:50:47.809 --> 00:50:50.409
and I could easily come up with $50 a month.

00:50:50.789 --> 00:50:53.769
Other than that, I had a 15 -passenger van that

00:50:53.769 --> 00:50:56.789
my manager from Atlanta had basically bought

00:50:56.789 --> 00:51:00.449
for me or was paying for. I handed that over

00:51:00.449 --> 00:51:04.250
once the agency dropped me because I dropped

00:51:04.250 --> 00:51:06.630
the label. I told the label I didn't want to

00:51:06.630 --> 00:51:09.769
make. I'd made the record Tragic City, and they

00:51:09.769 --> 00:51:14.610
wanted Tragic City No. 2, and I made Bad Little

00:51:14.610 --> 00:51:18.780
Kitty. And they thought that was insane. They

00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:22.739
were like, no, we cannot invest money in this

00:51:22.739 --> 00:51:26.380
record, but we will pay for another record if

00:51:26.380 --> 00:51:29.539
you'll make it. And I was like, no, this is the

00:51:29.539 --> 00:51:32.340
record. This is the record, and I'm stubborn,

00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:35.619
and I wasn't going to give an inch. And they

00:51:35.619 --> 00:51:37.440
were like, we really like you, but we're going

00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:39.820
to have to part ways. We just can't invest in

00:51:39.820 --> 00:51:42.960
that. And I thought that some cool label would

00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.309
immediately pick me up. And they didn't. And

00:51:46.309 --> 00:51:50.670
then my booking agent with the agency group dropped

00:51:50.670 --> 00:51:56.210
me instantly. And I was back to nothing. But

00:51:56.210 --> 00:51:58.610
then you end up in Mexico. But then I went to,

00:51:58.610 --> 00:52:00.210
that's when the drugs and all that happened.

00:52:00.250 --> 00:52:03.590
Then I went to Mexico. Then Connor was like,

00:52:03.650 --> 00:52:05.929
here, I got a job for you. Play lead guitar for

00:52:05.929 --> 00:52:08.250
the Mystic Valley Band. And it turned into the

00:52:08.250 --> 00:52:11.130
Valley Band. And that went on for three years.

00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:14.019
That ended up going on for a good long time.

00:52:14.139 --> 00:52:15.699
Yeah, probably about three years or something.

00:52:16.219 --> 00:52:20.039
But it seems like after that, it's almost like

00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:23.539
you return to the same lessons again, where you're

00:52:23.539 --> 00:52:27.760
like, maybe not quite as bitter this time around,

00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:30.420
but you're like, I want to put out my own music

00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:35.760
again. So, yeah. So as I hung out with that crowd,

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:39.260
I got more into the actual songwriting and the

00:52:39.260 --> 00:52:43.760
lyric writing. I was inspired by Connor's style

00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:47.539
of writing and all his friends. They were all

00:52:47.539 --> 00:52:53.719
into this sort of really lyrically focused writing,

00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:57.900
and I wanted to do that. I wanted to learn how

00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:01.139
to do that too, and I wanted to learn how to

00:53:01.139 --> 00:53:03.860
play. I thought, okay, maybe if it's lyrically

00:53:03.860 --> 00:53:08.739
driven, I can play shows by myself, and I wouldn't

00:53:08.739 --> 00:53:11.869
have to afford a band and all that. So I made

00:53:11.869 --> 00:53:15.389
that album, Life With A Slow Air, and then Connor

00:53:15.389 --> 00:53:17.630
put that out on the label at the time that he

00:53:17.630 --> 00:53:20.929
owned called Team Love. It was based out in New

00:53:20.929 --> 00:53:25.210
York City. He sold that label later to another

00:53:25.210 --> 00:53:28.949
guy that worked for his group of people, but

00:53:28.949 --> 00:53:32.409
that record didn't really do anything. I think

00:53:32.409 --> 00:53:34.869
it was okay, but they actually, I don't know,

00:53:34.909 --> 00:53:36.829
I can't even get the vinyls for them. They never

00:53:36.829 --> 00:53:40.320
sent me any money for anything. And I paid for

00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:43.000
the record, so I got screwed over on that deal.

00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:49.219
Not by Connor, but by people. That's what happens

00:53:49.219 --> 00:53:54.039
when too many big executives and people with

00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:56.800
kids get involved. That was kind of when I learned

00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:00.039
to be on his stuff. It was like you're always

00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:02.980
going to be secondary to him. They're always

00:54:02.980 --> 00:54:05.699
going to be focused on his career, and you're

00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:08.530
like an afterthought. But it sounds like working

00:54:08.530 --> 00:54:11.369
with him really shaped the way you write songs

00:54:11.369 --> 00:54:15.309
now. Oh, sure. I learned a lot. Yeah, I learned

00:54:15.309 --> 00:54:17.670
a lot. And I try to mix it with my old stuff,

00:54:17.710 --> 00:54:21.590
too. Yeah, I hear that. And I feel like maybe

00:54:21.590 --> 00:54:24.250
that's what I'm hearing more in this latest record.

00:54:25.710 --> 00:54:28.630
I'm only pushing it forward because I know you've

00:54:28.630 --> 00:54:30.769
got to get to the venue soon here. So I don't

00:54:30.769 --> 00:54:35.449
want to rush too much of this story, but I do

00:54:35.449 --> 00:54:37.539
want to... give you an opportunity to talk about

00:54:37.539 --> 00:54:40.059
the new record yeah there's a copy of it sitting

00:54:40.059 --> 00:54:42.659
behind you if you want to grab it and and show

00:54:42.659 --> 00:54:45.639
it it's i love it man i've been playing it a

00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:48.420
lot and i do think it's different than a lot

00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:51.800
of your other solo records recently because i

00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:55.639
feel like now that i've heard your story i feel

00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:58.480
like it's more that you're integrating some of

00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:02.239
your older sounds into it not yeah I made it

00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:05.500
with Matt. That's a photo of us from back in

00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:08.000
that time period I'm talking about. That's actually

00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:13.820
me and Matt probably like 2001 or 2002 maybe.

00:55:13.940 --> 00:55:18.099
Maybe even 2000. I don't know. That's right when

00:55:18.099 --> 00:55:21.500
we were immediately like best friends right there.

00:55:21.619 --> 00:55:24.039
That could have been a Dexatine show. It might

00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:25.940
have been this band Cut Grass that we were playing

00:55:25.940 --> 00:55:29.460
in. Is he as happy as he looks like when he's

00:55:29.460 --> 00:55:31.840
playing music? Because he just seems like he's.

00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:34.739
Yeah. Is he always that happy? Only on stage.

00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:38.519
Only on stage. Yeah. I feel like that's like

00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:41.519
the number one question people have is he always.

00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:44.420
He's very happy on stage. He loves to perform

00:55:44.420 --> 00:55:46.880
and play bass for sure. It's definitely his happy

00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.079
place. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So this new record,

00:55:50.260 --> 00:55:54.800
I feel like it really is like integration of

00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:57.400
everything you've ever done. Yeah. So the new

00:55:57.400 --> 00:56:01.010
direction, that's what I'm trying. Once I did

00:56:01.010 --> 00:56:04.829
the local thing as a duo, then I switched it

00:56:04.829 --> 00:56:08.989
to solo. I knew I wanted to add that foot thing.

00:56:09.050 --> 00:56:12.530
Like I said, people I'd been watching for almost

00:56:12.530 --> 00:56:15.130
my whole life doing that, I was very inspired

00:56:15.130 --> 00:56:20.050
to get the biggest sound and get the most entertaining

00:56:20.050 --> 00:56:24.769
and exciting thing I could do with one man because

00:56:24.769 --> 00:56:27.750
I wanted to be able to make a living, and I was

00:56:27.750 --> 00:56:32.760
just never... My music previously had never made

00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:36.400
enough money for me to really afford a band,

00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:38.860
especially once I grew up and did actually buy

00:56:38.860 --> 00:56:41.440
a house and have a mortgage and have a kid. I

00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:45.019
went from living where I needed nothing to like,

00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:48.300
oh, now I need a good bit of money every month.

00:56:48.679 --> 00:56:52.579
So I became a straight hustler with the guitar.

00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:56.679
I was playing sometimes three gigs in a day.

00:56:57.369 --> 00:57:01.070
I would do a brunch gig and an evening gig and

00:57:01.070 --> 00:57:04.090
then a late night gig. And I was just taking

00:57:04.090 --> 00:57:08.530
all the gigs I could get around town. And over

00:57:08.530 --> 00:57:13.690
time, I was only going to do it with my original

00:57:13.690 --> 00:57:15.630
songs. I wasn't going to become a cover band

00:57:15.630 --> 00:57:18.010
guy or something like that. I wasn't going to

00:57:18.010 --> 00:57:19.670
accept it. Was that ever something that you were

00:57:19.670 --> 00:57:21.610
really, were you ever really into covers? It

00:57:21.610 --> 00:57:24.530
doesn't sound like that. No, always to me, in

00:57:24.530 --> 00:57:28.150
my mind, it was like I just. Probably just because

00:57:28.150 --> 00:57:32.650
I'm stubborn and whatever, but I'll never. I

00:57:32.650 --> 00:57:35.329
was like, the amount of energy it's going to

00:57:35.329 --> 00:57:39.489
take me to sit here and learn a cover song to

00:57:39.489 --> 00:57:43.409
then perform for y 'all a cover song, I could

00:57:43.409 --> 00:57:47.570
put that energy into writing my own songs. Thank

00:57:47.570 --> 00:57:53.070
you. Which will then serve me later as well as

00:57:53.070 --> 00:57:56.190
now. Man, I don't hate cover songs universally.

00:57:56.449 --> 00:57:58.429
No, I don't either. There's so many bands that

00:57:58.429 --> 00:58:00.829
just play, like, what people are going to sing

00:58:00.829 --> 00:58:04.510
at karaoke. Yeah. Or, like, I want to hear a

00:58:04.510 --> 00:58:07.289
cover song because it's a song I've never heard

00:58:07.289 --> 00:58:09.389
before and you're introducing me to something.

00:58:10.050 --> 00:58:13.809
Because it's some song that I could go here on

00:58:13.809 --> 00:58:16.829
the road. So I wanted to be able to please the

00:58:16.829 --> 00:58:19.590
crowd with a song that they had never heard.

00:58:19.750 --> 00:58:23.719
And that was what got me. Really working on the

00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:28.119
finger style that I bastardized and came up with

00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:30.960
for myself. I never learned a particular finger

00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:34.099
style for the same reason. Because I don't want

00:58:34.099 --> 00:58:37.280
to get up there and I'm playing the exact same

00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:41.780
style as whoever. Like Mississippi John Hurt

00:58:41.780 --> 00:58:46.079
or whatever. I don't want to be a copy of something.

00:58:46.300 --> 00:58:52.559
At some point, they made that up too. So, yeah,

00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:56.119
you call it stubbornness. I call it like an avant

00:58:56.119 --> 00:59:03.559
-garde fucking. Yeah, it's really like I think

00:59:03.559 --> 00:59:08.059
that it's needed, necessary applaud. It's what

00:59:08.059 --> 00:59:11.320
makes you stand out, man, is the fact that you

00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:14.579
don't just try to be. And you do it all. Yeah,

00:59:14.900 --> 00:59:19.119
I purposely try to play and sound like myself.

00:59:19.539 --> 00:59:24.519
Yeah. I could have gotten a resonator and done

00:59:24.519 --> 00:59:28.079
the thing where suspenders and... I could do

00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:32.460
that. But, like, I... Anytime anything comes

00:59:32.460 --> 00:59:35.599
in style, it's like I do the freaking opposite

00:59:35.599 --> 00:59:39.579
because... Sometimes it... It's almost like a

00:59:39.579 --> 00:59:41.760
punk rock belligerence that you take to everything

00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:44.800
that you do. And I fucking love that. It is.

00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:48.280
And how have you meshed that? Even though I don't

00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:50.699
consider myself in the punk rock scene at all

00:59:50.699 --> 00:59:55.059
anymore. But in some ways, it's totally punk

00:59:55.059 --> 00:59:59.039
rock. There's punk music, and then there's just

00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:02.800
being a punk. Once punk became a genre or a fad,

01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.119
it's like that. No, but this belligerence to

01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:09.849
like... of non -conformity but that's what yeah

01:00:09.849 --> 01:00:12.349
punk rock to me just meant freedom expression

01:00:12.349 --> 01:00:17.630
in freedom to play whatever you want to play

01:00:17.630 --> 01:00:19.929
and that's what i mean when i say that you bring

01:00:19.929 --> 01:00:23.670
that to whatever music you're doing yeah so can

01:00:23.670 --> 01:00:25.750
you just talk for a minute really quick before

01:00:25.750 --> 01:00:30.949
we wrap this up about a your songwriting process

01:00:30.949 --> 01:00:34.409
i've heard a lot of songwriters talk it's like

01:00:34.409 --> 01:00:38.719
an antenna and they Grab it. Yeah. And then sometimes

01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:41.460
it's a lot more intentional. And then I guess

01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:45.619
also part of that too now is like how much of

01:00:45.619 --> 01:00:50.039
a conscious effort do you put into blending genres

01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:54.219
and things like that when you're writing songs?

01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:58.920
I don't, none of, the genre blending is not very

01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:01.480
conscious. I think that just happens because

01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:05.659
I listen to so many different genres and particularly,

01:01:06.039 --> 01:01:10.099
a handful in particular a lot but i do listen

01:01:10.099 --> 01:01:13.920
there's certain things that like i can relate

01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:18.219
to like i can i can say there's i was rocking

01:01:18.219 --> 01:01:22.079
out to juice by todd snyder on the whole drive

01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:25.480
here but there's a lot in common with that with

01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:29.880
a freaking notorious big song And that's the

01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:33.480
flow of the words, the flow of the rhyme schemes

01:01:33.480 --> 01:01:36.880
and the way they're laid out. So I'm very attracted

01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:40.900
to that. I love word flow and I think it does

01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:48.119
a lot to a song, but I also want to, I know my

01:01:48.119 --> 01:01:52.719
strengths are usually the lyric songwriting in

01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:55.000
that, in the word flow and then the playfulness

01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.269
and then also the guitar. So I try to, I purposely

01:01:59.269 --> 01:02:03.550
work on the guitar stuff. I try to make it interesting

01:02:03.550 --> 01:02:09.210
and stand out on its own as well. A lot of the

01:02:09.210 --> 01:02:13.369
way I've gotten to the genre and style that I

01:02:13.369 --> 01:02:18.789
am is just on the fact that I knew I wanted and

01:02:18.789 --> 01:02:21.630
needed to be able to make a living as a one -man

01:02:21.630 --> 01:02:26.179
show. I knew I wanted it to be... different i

01:02:26.179 --> 01:02:28.780
knew i didn't want to sound like anything's trendy

01:02:28.780 --> 01:02:33.039
but a lot of the but you could also a lot of

01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:36.500
the genres i play with are trendy at times if

01:02:36.500 --> 01:02:40.820
you picked them apart individually but i don't

01:02:40.820 --> 01:02:44.340
think i fall into those if you listen to it on

01:02:44.340 --> 01:02:47.239
its own being like by coincidence and like that

01:02:47.239 --> 01:02:50.179
being because you were trying to be trendy right

01:02:50.179 --> 01:02:53.710
yeah A lot of my heroes really were one -man

01:02:53.710 --> 01:02:56.969
show guys and one -man entertainers from way

01:02:56.969 --> 01:03:00.349
back in the day, like blues guys who had monthly

01:03:00.349 --> 01:03:04.309
gigs at the same place every month, who did residencies

01:03:04.309 --> 01:03:07.769
all over their town or whatever. So that was

01:03:07.769 --> 01:03:10.909
part of the, as I read about people like that,

01:03:11.050 --> 01:03:15.190
it was like, okay, that is a very good business

01:03:15.190 --> 01:03:18.369
model that nobody lives by today. Everybody thinks

01:03:18.369 --> 01:03:22.530
you have to go. tour and get it's all about these

01:03:22.530 --> 01:03:25.630
making yourself look like more than you actually

01:03:25.630 --> 01:03:28.989
are making yourself seem bigger or more famous

01:03:28.989 --> 01:03:32.909
than you really are and that always was just

01:03:32.909 --> 01:03:35.789
so lame to me that's like the fake social media

01:03:35.789 --> 01:03:39.550
world we live in now but i wanted to actually

01:03:39.550 --> 01:03:44.949
make a good living and just be a local guy yeah

01:03:44.949 --> 01:03:47.869
and like i had at the time i had zero desire

01:03:47.869 --> 01:03:52.320
to go out and look like i had these big grandiose

01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:55.619
tours and i'm this rock star it was like i want

01:03:55.619 --> 01:03:58.420
to start small i want to figure out a way to

01:03:58.420 --> 01:04:01.059
make a living in this little circle of an area

01:04:01.059 --> 01:04:05.500
and then i want to slowly grow that what changed

01:04:05.500 --> 01:04:08.420
what like what changed for you now because now

01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:11.199
it seems like you're touring a lot i this last

01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:14.380
year i have been touring a lot and a lot of that

01:04:14.380 --> 01:04:18.280
came to Me and Matt talking and deciding to make

01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:22.239
that wreck, make Yehola together. The very first

01:04:22.239 --> 01:04:25.579
tour I did was opening for Laura Jane Grace.

01:04:25.820 --> 01:04:28.199
Yeah. The Mississippi Medicals. That was the

01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:30.840
first tour I did with this solo stomp thing.

01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:33.619
I don't think you opened for her when she played

01:04:33.619 --> 01:04:37.719
here, though, a couple years ago. This was one

01:04:37.719 --> 01:04:40.199
year ago. This was last September. Yeah. And

01:04:40.199 --> 01:04:42.840
I did come into Florida, but I don't think we

01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:46.449
did Tallahassee. Yeah. No, last year she skipped

01:04:46.449 --> 01:04:48.329
Tallahassee. Yeah, she just did Gainesville,

01:04:48.409 --> 01:04:51.730
I think. Yeah, we did do Gainesville. It was

01:04:51.730 --> 01:04:54.489
two years ago. That tour went very well for me.

01:04:54.590 --> 01:04:58.550
I really had no clue what that would be like.

01:04:59.690 --> 01:05:04.050
She's very punk rock and reaches a young punk

01:05:04.050 --> 01:05:07.489
audience, and I thought they might think I'm

01:05:07.489 --> 01:05:11.469
just some old guy finger -picking weird, folky,

01:05:11.550 --> 01:05:13.750
bluesy stuff, and they might not like it at all.

01:05:14.329 --> 01:05:16.289
Matt was like, dude, I think you should do it.

01:05:16.329 --> 01:05:17.710
I really think they're going to like you more

01:05:17.710 --> 01:05:20.030
than you realize. That makes sense to me. And

01:05:20.030 --> 01:05:23.809
it went well. I sold a lot of merch. I realized,

01:05:24.050 --> 01:05:28.050
oh, wow, I've been doing this in Birmingham so

01:05:28.050 --> 01:05:31.269
long. When you play locally all the time, of

01:05:31.269 --> 01:05:33.230
course you have your people that follow you and

01:05:33.230 --> 01:05:36.030
support you. But because you're playing so often.

01:05:36.639 --> 01:05:39.159
you're not getting them every night. And a lot

01:05:39.159 --> 01:05:40.639
of times you're playing to people that aren't

01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:43.300
really paying attention. So it's almost like

01:05:43.300 --> 01:05:46.719
in my head, I wasn't, I was all about just making

01:05:46.719 --> 01:05:50.159
enough money from the bar. It wasn't really about,

01:05:50.219 --> 01:05:53.320
I was never doing real shows where I had to worry

01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:55.739
about ticket sales to bring in the money. It

01:05:55.739 --> 01:05:57.980
was just a flat fee everywhere. I played your

01:05:57.980 --> 01:06:01.480
background entertainment. I did that for 10 years.

01:06:01.659 --> 01:06:04.880
So I was. used to that I was used to people not

01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:08.619
caring so suddenly to play real shows again where

01:06:08.619 --> 01:06:12.079
people were there to see you I was nervous I

01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:14.880
was didn't know how I was gonna go but when it

01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:19.039
went really well that's when Matt was like if

01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:23.219
I book these tours for you or help you get some

01:06:23.219 --> 01:06:26.800
shows would you be down to keep continue this

01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:30.340
and try and I was like yeah because at home my

01:06:30.340 --> 01:06:33.559
kids gotten older She's into theater. She's into

01:06:33.559 --> 01:06:36.980
music. She has a social life. She's already very

01:06:36.980 --> 01:06:42.880
busy. My wife works all the time. I was like,

01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:46.960
I guess this is a time now where I could actually

01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:50.760
go on the road more. So it's still a bit of an

01:06:50.760 --> 01:06:56.199
experiment right now. But I'm realizing I can

01:06:56.199 --> 01:06:59.000
make an even better living doing it the touring

01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:02.110
way. I'm hoping now to build it and get another

01:07:02.110 --> 01:07:05.590
agent. Now that I quit drinking about a year

01:07:05.590 --> 01:07:09.010
and a half ago, I'm taking things very seriously

01:07:09.010 --> 01:07:13.949
now. I practice like every day. I'm trying to

01:07:13.949 --> 01:07:17.210
be as good as I can possibly be. But I still

01:07:17.210 --> 01:07:19.329
want to keep it a one -man show. That's what

01:07:19.329 --> 01:07:23.010
inspires me. But I'm hoping now that I can build

01:07:23.010 --> 01:07:26.849
this into a real legitimate kind of career path.

01:07:27.409 --> 01:07:31.139
I love this new record, man. I think you're definitely,

01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:34.179
like, heading the right direction there, man.

01:07:34.179 --> 01:07:36.579
Thanks. Thanks for helping me spread the word.

01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:38.900
Fuck yeah, man. Thanks for being here. I really

01:07:38.900 --> 01:07:40.900
appreciate it. I'm going to let you get to your

01:07:40.900 --> 01:07:46.820
show. Heck yeah, man. And we'll put this out

01:07:46.820 --> 01:07:49.300
in a couple of weeks, and everybody will get

01:07:49.300 --> 01:07:51.340
to hear everything about it. And I'll have links

01:07:51.340 --> 01:07:55.000
to the record and where you can buy it and your

01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:56.960
tour dates and all that jazz. Is there anything

01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:59.530
else you want to mention really quick? Before

01:07:59.530 --> 01:08:04.590
we end? Not necessarily. I mean, we're closing

01:08:04.590 --> 01:08:06.869
in on the next record. It's going to come out.

01:08:06.949 --> 01:08:09.429
I don't know when yet. Hopefully early next year,

01:08:09.530 --> 01:08:12.469
I'm hoping. I will be hitting the West Coast.

01:08:13.070 --> 01:08:17.710
A friend of mine, Harmar Superstar, totally different

01:08:17.710 --> 01:08:21.369
kind of music again, but he messaged me not long

01:08:21.369 --> 01:08:23.609
ago and asked if I would want to open up for

01:08:23.609 --> 01:08:28.340
his shows down the West Coast. So pretty excited

01:08:28.340 --> 01:08:31.739
about playing some of those clubs. The thing

01:08:31.739 --> 01:08:33.819
is, here's what I always say about music, man.

01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:36.500
There's really only two kinds of music. Yeah.

01:08:36.619 --> 01:08:38.699
There's good music and there's bad music. Yeah,

01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:41.680
I like that. Thank you so much for being here,

01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:43.760
Taylor. Thank you. I really appreciate it. All

01:08:43.760 --> 01:08:46.239
right. That was my interview with Taylor Hollingsworth.

01:08:46.340 --> 01:08:49.819
He's fucking great. Spent the next couple of

01:08:49.819 --> 01:08:54.640
days with him. We spent the next couple of days

01:08:54.640 --> 01:08:57.670
with him here and there. I went to see him in

01:08:57.670 --> 01:09:00.970
Jacksonville, went to see him in Dothan. Dothan

01:09:00.970 --> 01:09:03.729
has some cool little shows going on up there

01:09:03.729 --> 01:09:06.270
if you're in that area. They're doing some stuff

01:09:06.270 --> 01:09:07.989
in their little amphitheater downtown. It was

01:09:07.989 --> 01:09:12.010
awesome. Taylor puts on such a fucking great

01:09:12.010 --> 01:09:15.970
show. It's really rare for me to be completely

01:09:15.970 --> 01:09:19.970
captivated by somebody and just follow them to

01:09:19.970 --> 01:09:22.369
the next couple of shows, but that's what it

01:09:22.369 --> 01:09:24.409
was like. Talking to him was great. He's just

01:09:24.409 --> 01:09:28.619
a great dude. But watching him play was phenomenal.

01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:32.000
And, I mean, I wanted to hang out with him more

01:09:32.000 --> 01:09:34.739
and see him play more. And I hope you enjoyed

01:09:34.739 --> 01:09:37.100
the interview with him. A couple other guests

01:09:37.100 --> 01:09:38.859
we're going to have on soon. We've got Lanny

01:09:38.859 --> 01:09:42.539
Farmer coming on in a few weeks. He's a comedian

01:09:42.539 --> 01:09:44.779
in Athens, Georgia. He'll be headlining at the

01:09:44.779 --> 01:09:49.939
Foundry on the 23rd, next Thursday. I'll be there.

01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:52.020
And I'll be sticking around Athens. I'll be at

01:09:52.020 --> 01:09:54.539
the Rumpus, the Wild Rumpus. Y 'all check that

01:09:54.539 --> 01:09:57.720
out. Kane Stanley's going to be leading the drum

01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:03.020
line in the parade. I've never been. I'm expecting

01:10:03.020 --> 01:10:05.000
it to be crazy. I'm going to interview a bunch

01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:08.380
of people, shoot a bunch of stuff, and show y

01:10:08.380 --> 01:10:11.479
'all what I find out about it. So thanks for

01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:13.359
tuning in to Overeducated and Underemployed,

01:10:13.359 --> 01:10:16.159
y 'all. Hit that subscribe button. Next week,

01:10:16.239 --> 01:10:19.119
we got Danny Bedrosian from Parliament Funkadelic.