WEBVTT

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Overeducated and underemployed. I'm Fedden. This

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week we have Jason Neesmith, who is a member

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of the Shut Ups. He's also part of the Pylon

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Reenactment Society, if you're familiar with

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the band Pylon. Check that out. Also known as

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Casper Fandango of Casper and the Cookies. And

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we had Ben Spraker on a couple weeks ago, who

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is also in the Shut Ups. Ben was also in a band

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called The Arcs with Kevin Lane, who was on the

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show last week. So I've decided to call this

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little three -part series here The Shut -Ups

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Arc. Anyway, so he's the mastering engineer at

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Chase Park Transduction Studios in Athens, Georgia.

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And I think really just reading his bio from

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their site is a really good way to introduce

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him. After graduating from the Berklee College

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of Music with a degree in music production and

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engineering, Jason joined 100 bands and recorded

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100 more. His clients kept asking him to master

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their records until he accidentally got good

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at it. Now he masters projects for international

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or local artists in any genre of music. Recent

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projects include work for the Allman Brothers

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Band, Roy Buchanan, Magna Pop, Fred Schneider.

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and the superions and rat babies also the complete

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decoration day that just got announced this week

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for those drive -by truckers fans out there we

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did not talk about that because it had not been

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announced yet we only talked about it off of

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the podcast i'm really excited for the rest of

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this box set jason neesmith and i wish we Had

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more time to talk about his music. Because we

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didn't get into that as much as I would have

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liked. But we got into stuff that we haven't

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really talked about with anybody else on this

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podcast before. And we did talk about his music

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some. But I'm really excited for you all to hear

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this conversation. Here's Jason Neesmith and

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I. Check it out. Hey, Jason. So do you go by

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and you like to be addressed as Fenton? On the

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podcast and on stage, yeah. If we're just hanging

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out, you can call me either one. I'll give you

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a little background about why I go by that. I

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started doing improv comedy in virtual reality

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during the pandemic, and I wasn't even doing

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stand -up comedy yet. But that was my, like,

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online name, my gamer tag or whatever. So that's

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what everybody was calling me when I did that.

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And then there was karaoke nights, and I'd go

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to karaoke. And it started to become a thing

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where people would call me by that, and I'd respond,

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you know. I get it, man. Yeah. I had a name given

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to me by somebody, Casper Fandango. Oh, okay.

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And when I moved to town, people were calling

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me Casper. Because my band was Casper the Cookies.

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But I never wanted to be Casper, even though

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I said it. That's how nicknames work, right?

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No, man, call me Bartholomew. That's not how

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it works. Yeah. Maybe I've cheated the system

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a little bit. You can make your name whatever

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you want online and then perform there. That's

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a good cheat, yeah. They're letting me get away

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with it so far. We're on overeducated and underemployed.

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I'm here with Jason Neesmith, who... I don't

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even know where to start with you. Member of

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Pylon Reenactment Society. You're the senior

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mastering engineer at Chase Park Transduction.

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Member of the Elephant Six Collective, if I'm

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not mistaken. I would put myself in the outer

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orbits. Yeah. I feel like everybody says... I'm

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going to be the Pluto. Yeah, no, unless you're

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Will, Bill, Jeff, or Robert. John Fernandez has

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been around those guys for a long time. Whatever.

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That's a whole other, that's a very deep. But

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yeah, I am involved in that. You've mastered

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a lot of those records and stuff like that. Yeah,

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I've played in a bunch of those bands off and

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on. Oh, cool. And sometimes I've been in bands,

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like the Casper and the Cookies project was one

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that some people consider to be part of it and

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others do not, and that's fine. We'll let them

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decide. Yeah, it's not for me to claim or explain.

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So those are just some of the highlights. We'll

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get into a lot more than that, but I want to

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start with the question I ask everybody off the

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bat. And what's the first song that you remember

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loving as a kid? It was probably, it was definitely

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going to be a Beatles song. Mine was. Yeah, I

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don't know exactly which one it was, to be honest,

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but I'll give you, I'll give you. Two answers.

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One's a Beatles song. I'll give you three. Sorry.

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She Loves You. Because it starts deceptively.

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It starts on the relative minor. And you don't

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know where you are for a minute. The ground keeps

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shifting below you. And then you hit that verse

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and you feel like you've arrived somewhere. And

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I just thought that was a great trick. For some

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reason, it just seemed like such an important

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moment. And that stuck with me, that little,

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give them something they don't expect and then

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resolve it. Yeah, resolve is the word I was just

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thinking. Exactly, yeah. When I was a little,

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I think I'm Not In Love by 10cc came out when

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I was two or three. Nice. And I did not understand

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what I was hearing, but I knew it was just like

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sonically magic. And that's been a little bit

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of a siren song too. And Rubber Band Man by The

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Spinners was around the same time. And that's

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just such a kinetic song. So you asked for one

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and I gave you three, but pretty good three.

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At what point do you think you realized that

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you were just really into music and not just

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into this song or this artist is interesting,

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but you just love music? I don't remember not

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being really into music. It just was that way

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the whole time. Were you like creative with it

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off the bat? I was just talking to Kevin. And

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he was like banging on Cool Whip containers.

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And that was like the beginning of something.

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It wasn't like something he did and then stopped

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and went back. He almost feels like there was

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never a time where he wasn't creating. Do you

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relate to that too? I do. Yeah, I had to. like

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a toy drum set when I was a little kid. And so

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I pretended that I had a band, but it was just

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me. I didn't really have any songs yet. There

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was like a poem in the beginning of a children's

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book called Annie's Rainbow. I can't remember

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what the words were, but okay, that's my first

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song. It's this little four lines right here

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in the beginning of this book. And that was,

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I was probably four or five, something like that.

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That's awesome. That's great. Yeah. So that,

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everything, done. It's almost been predestined

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in a way. It's weird now that I'm an audio engineer

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that I don't write as much as I used to because

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I thought that was my destiny. I'm actually in

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a different place. I guess I've fallen off of

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that rail, that predestination rail, but that's

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okay. But it sounds like you knew what world

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you belonged in from a very young age. Yeah.

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And that's something that's rare, I think. I

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think so. When I hear some people talk about,

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you know, you get into music so that you can

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meet women or whatever, meet men, whatever it

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is. Everybody does that. Anybody who says that

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is lying to you. I didn't know what any of that

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was about. I just loved music. I loved music

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way before I cared about girls. And my career

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in music is not. It did result in me meeting

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the love of my life, but. i didn't have a lot

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of conquests along the way you know what i mean

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it's that's just like when you're doing what

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you're supposed to be doing yeah then you meet

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the right people exactly what was the first so

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when was the first time you like wrote a song

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instead of just stealing a children's poem let's

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see so the first song that i wrote that i didn't

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steal i guess maybe the first decent song that

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i wrote I think I was 11 years old and I wrote

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a song called I've Had Enough. What had you had

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enough of? Of people being mean. Was that something

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you dealt with a lot? Were you dealt with bullies

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and stuff as a kid? Yeah, I was bullied as a

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kid. I definitely was too. Yeah, no, for sure.

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I had friends. At least a couple of times I had

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a friend who turned into a bully, but whatever.

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Yeah. i had a lot of or some i had a few very

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close friends most most of my life yeah so was

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like dealing with that what kind of drove you

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to write that song in the first place or yeah

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did it just happen and i think i felt like i

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finally had a topic i knew something about i

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had a feeling i needed to get down and it was

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a way that you could almost like maybe not totally

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super publicly but It's not just like a letter

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you're writing to yourself or something. This

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is something that potentially you could use to

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tell them to fuck off with. Yeah, I didn't have

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anywhere that kind of confidence. I don't think

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I played that song for anybody. I think I copied

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it for one friend two or three years later, and

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he copied it for somebody else, and it felt like

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a betrayal. That was for you, nobody else. I

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got over it, obviously. It was a pretty private

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thing. I needed the Beatles to write a song for

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me, but they weren't going to do it, so I did

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it for myself. I love that. Something like that.

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That's awesome. So at what point did you start

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feeling more comfortable starting to share some

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of your songs? Because it sounds like you were

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pretty private about it. Was that always the

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case, or was it unique to that first song? I

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had to really gently... dip my toe into sharing

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it with other people. I had a next door neighbor

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who, he was five, he's still five years older

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than me. And he wrote some songs and he didn't

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mind hanging out with somebody who was like a

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preteen when he probably was interested in like

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meeting girls or whatever. But we hung out and

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we wrote songs together. He would bring in some

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stuff and we didn't, we weren't good, but. Did

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he need a bass player? Is that what you're? i've

00:12:06.850 --> 00:12:08.870
got a tape of that because you don't want to

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listen to it but it's fun like it's pretty funny

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to listen to this guy who's already got a deep

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voice in this little kid like that partridge

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family record and then i met this guy named christopher

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snell and i went to a new school and where did

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you grow up in in town atlanta okay which is

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weird that's a whole subject because i know that

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a lot of people that you talk to are southerners

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And Atlanta is arguably in the South, but not

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entirely of the South. Yeah. And that's a deep

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subject. There's a lot of Florida that's like

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that, too. Uh -huh. And a lot of it is, I'm sure

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much of Atlanta is Southern, but not where I

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was necessarily. It's where a lot of people in

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the South didn't feel comfortable outside of

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in -town Atlanta. Oh, so it was like one of the

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white flight kind of... suburb areas or no no

00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:09.639
it was like next to piedmont park okay okay there

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was i know what you're talking about yeah there

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were there the neighborhood i was in was very

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upper middle class i think but there were gentrified

00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:22.980
yeah i don't know maybe before that was a thing

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even possibly i don't even know if this was a

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neighborhood that had ever been anything other

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than upper middle class i see okay the houses

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were all nice yeah yeah We were near Piedmont

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Park and Ansley Mall and Midtown Atlanta. And

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there was a large gay population. There were

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a lot of Jewish people around. And I'd gone to,

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before that I'd gone to a school where there

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was busing back and forth between the affluent

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neighborhoods and some of the poor neighborhoods.

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Right. And so I met a lot of different people

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from different backgrounds that way. I had a

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lot of black friends of different economic households.

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And it was a really good way to meet a lot of

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different kinds of people, I think. And it's

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really hard to develop any kind of class consciousness

00:14:11.299 --> 00:14:15.539
if you don't start meeting people that, and I

00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:19.620
think that can be a whole other thing, but class

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consciousness, I think, is really important to

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understanding and being empathetic. I don't know

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about you, but I'm pretty sure like most artists

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are like seeping with empathy, even if they don't

00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.879
want to admit it, right? Yeah, it's, I've had,

00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:42.139
I've got a, I've developed a theory that some,

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I don't know how to tell them apart until you

00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:47.419
meet them. But I think there are some artists

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who appear to have empathy, can write from a

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place of empathy, but don't actually possess

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it. Not in the quantity that you might think

00:14:59.490 --> 00:15:02.090
by listening to their lyrics. And do you think

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that they sing those songs convincingly? Yeah,

00:15:05.809 --> 00:15:10.009
yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. And I don't think

00:15:10.009 --> 00:15:12.789
every artist has empathy. Not every artist displays

00:15:12.789 --> 00:15:15.870
empathy. But yes, I agree with the main point

00:15:15.870 --> 00:15:19.129
is that most of them probably do. Because you're

00:15:19.129 --> 00:15:22.509
absorbing, it's not just your own history, but

00:15:22.509 --> 00:15:24.409
the histories of people around you and talking

00:15:24.409 --> 00:15:26.940
to them and getting their feelings. And I guess

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what I was pointing out, too, was that even though

00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.240
you grew up in this upper middle class neighborhood

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where there wasn't a lot of economic diversity,

00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.639
you had already developed some class consciousness

00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:44.460
by being on those bus to schools. Yeah. So by

00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:48.039
the time you weren't, it was like you were aware

00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:51.379
of it. Yeah. You were very aware. It sounds like

00:15:51.379 --> 00:15:53.419
you were very aware of the fact that you weren't

00:15:53.419 --> 00:15:58.399
in a super diverse. situation anymore. Yeah,

00:15:58.500 --> 00:16:01.740
but I could walk out my door and walk down the

00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:06.720
street and see diversity and be in it then or

00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.639
go visit. I had friends at school who lived in

00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:12.960
the projects and I would hang out with them sometimes

00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:16.659
on the weekends and be like, wow, this is really

00:16:16.659 --> 00:16:22.299
different. But I couldn't write. I had to write

00:16:22.299 --> 00:16:25.899
for me. I couldn't be. I couldn't put myself

00:16:25.899 --> 00:16:29.980
in that. I have empathy, but I can't assume somebody

00:16:29.980 --> 00:16:34.000
else's. Yeah, there's some songwriters who, and

00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:36.000
I think even very authentically so sometimes,

00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:39.000
write from the perspective of a character or

00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.120
something like that. Yeah, yeah. And you're saying

00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:43.940
that's not something you ever do. Your songs

00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:47.440
are always from your point of view. I've tried

00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:50.779
it. I guess I have written some songs from characters,

00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:54.039
but it's not a super strength of mine. Yeah.

00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:57.899
The guy that I was talking about that I met at

00:16:57.899 --> 00:17:02.480
school, Christopher Snell. Snell, yeah. He goes

00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.200
by Don Condescending in The Shut -Ups. And he

00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.900
was writing from a character perspective from

00:17:08.900 --> 00:17:13.319
a pretty young age. I think he was also writing

00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:17.619
short stories, had other aspirations for his

00:17:17.619 --> 00:17:20.460
writing other than songwriting, and was able

00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:23.859
to. work work from a character perspective from

00:17:23.859 --> 00:17:26.039
a young age and that's served him well i think

00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.220
and that's why why i'm gotcha i've stood by him

00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:33.319
for decades because i because nobody else is

00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.200
doing this what what were some of the first times

00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:42.920
you started to find your voice and i think we're

00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.400
always maybe you never fully find your own but

00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.440
you get what i mean where you stop trying to

00:17:48.970 --> 00:17:53.990
be the Beatles and write this song or stop trying

00:17:53.990 --> 00:17:56.750
to be something else or trying to be like someone

00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:59.549
else and been like, no, this is how I sound.

00:17:59.589 --> 00:18:03.269
This is how I feel. Yeah. That's a damn good

00:18:03.269 --> 00:18:04.829
question. I don't know what the answer is to

00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:09.990
it. I think you just, I've tried various ways

00:18:09.990 --> 00:18:14.890
of writing to see what that'll result in. And

00:18:14.890 --> 00:18:17.849
if it doesn't sound like somebody else, it must

00:18:17.849 --> 00:18:20.430
sound like me. And you can hear little hints

00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:23.230
of things like, OK, that's a big star harmony

00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:27.369
change right there or whatever. But but if it's

00:18:27.369 --> 00:18:30.490
not too much like somebody else, then, OK, that's

00:18:30.490 --> 00:18:34.029
it came out of me. That's me. Do you think as

00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:38.190
you started to find your authentic voice or whatever

00:18:38.190 --> 00:18:42.210
we want to call it, the ability to speak your

00:18:42.210 --> 00:18:46.609
to be you in your songs instead of what you.

00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:48.640
thought other people wanted to hear or something

00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.039
like that do you think that correlated with like

00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.440
your comfort level in releasing your music and

00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.440
sharing it with other people maybe i so here's

00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:01.420
the i played with richard lloyd of television

00:19:01.420 --> 00:19:05.720
for a year and one of the things he said to me

00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:08.380
and he said this he said it on he was often gruff

00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:11.420
and one of the things he said was like uh if

00:19:11.420 --> 00:19:15.440
you don't have your own style get one But he

00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.339
didn't know me that well. And the thing is, I'd

00:19:18.339 --> 00:19:21.880
had my own style. My own style is variety. I

00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.839
don't go from, I write this kind of a song. Now,

00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.440
certain kinds of songs come out of me, and mostly

00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.859
they are more melody -based. Whether it's on

00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:39.240
one chord or 24 chords, I'm a more melodic writer.

00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:43.509
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It didn't correspond with me

00:19:43.509 --> 00:19:45.369
releasing music because I think I was doing that

00:19:45.369 --> 00:19:48.829
the whole time. Like writing, I want to, I feel

00:19:48.829 --> 00:19:50.029
this kind of way, I'm going to write this kind

00:19:50.029 --> 00:19:54.390
of song. It's for somebody else to say whether

00:19:54.390 --> 00:19:58.049
I have a genre. And I think that's been probably

00:19:58.049 --> 00:20:02.430
an issue, the genre issue for me. You mean in

00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:04.369
terms of like marketability or something like

00:20:04.369 --> 00:20:08.849
that? Yeah, like I appreciate artists who, some

00:20:08.849 --> 00:20:11.829
would say that's a challenge. I'm not talking

00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:14.109
about almost Costello where, okay, this is a

00:20:14.109 --> 00:20:16.809
record. This is my country record, and this is

00:20:16.809 --> 00:20:20.150
my string quartet record, and that kind of thing.

00:20:20.869 --> 00:20:23.970
It's not necessarily like that, but a lot of

00:20:23.970 --> 00:20:28.910
people do like consistency, and that's not what

00:20:28.910 --> 00:20:33.630
I ever offered. Do you think that you struggled

00:20:33.630 --> 00:20:37.369
with that within the same albums or more over

00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:40.779
time, album to album? I think it's... i think

00:20:40.779 --> 00:20:43.200
it's been i think inconsistency has been consistent

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.640
for me not in terms of quality necessarily but

00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.960
like in terms of style and part of it is that

00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:55.720
i i always liked artists who took something that

00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:59.720
you were familiar with and gave you discomfort

00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.160
and then resolved it like she loves you yeah

00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:06.920
on a small scale so i heard a steve reich record

00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.339
when i was Probably 13 years old. And it changed

00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:15.099
a lot of stuff in my brain. And from that point

00:21:15.099 --> 00:21:18.420
on, I think I was trying to find things that

00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:21.380
were outside of the comfort area of pop music

00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:25.039
and bring them into pop music. Gotcha. You might

00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.119
not even notice that it was an influence from

00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:31.279
something like that. But that's how I arrived

00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:34.440
at the place where I felt this is original enough

00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.269
and I like it. So I'm going to. I'm going to

00:21:38.269 --> 00:21:40.890
present it to people. Have you ever released

00:21:40.890 --> 00:21:46.150
music you didn't feel like you liked? No. I'm

00:21:46.150 --> 00:21:49.109
not sure of any. I don't know. I'm sure people

00:21:49.109 --> 00:21:52.829
have with big label deals and things like that.

00:21:53.190 --> 00:21:56.609
Yeah, we never had that kind of pressure. There's

00:21:56.609 --> 00:21:58.130
definitely stuff that I've recorded and didn't

00:21:58.130 --> 00:22:00.990
release because I didn't like it. I've gotten

00:22:00.990 --> 00:22:04.910
close. That's not bad. And maybe there's stuff

00:22:04.910 --> 00:22:08.539
that I've put up on the internet. for free and

00:22:08.539 --> 00:22:12.319
and then didn't push it as a release because

00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:16.720
i'm not so sure about that one yeah yeah you're

00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:20.539
writing songs at an early age you're not sharing

00:22:20.539 --> 00:22:24.140
them but when did you form a like when did you

00:22:24.140 --> 00:22:26.019
form your first band who did you start playing

00:22:26.019 --> 00:22:29.420
with all right so chris and i in sixth grade

00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:32.220
started to get together you were in sixth grade

00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.500
Yeah, both of us were. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Chris

00:22:35.500 --> 00:22:37.579
was the same age as you. Yeah, yeah. The other

00:22:37.579 --> 00:22:40.619
guy was, yeah, sorry. So Christopher Snell, a

00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:43.420
.k .a. Don Condescending, we had a band called

00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:46.500
The Bad Habits, spelled with two Bs, because

00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:50.380
you spell badly, and that's a bad habit. Anyway,

00:22:50.539 --> 00:22:55.240
that was the low -level joke that kept this project

00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:57.920
going for a while. We would get together at lunchtime,

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.940
and it took us a long time to play out in front

00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:05.269
of people, but we did. The real project was to

00:23:05.269 --> 00:23:09.210
show your song to somebody that you trusted to

00:23:09.210 --> 00:23:14.069
give you critical feedback on it. So it was school.

00:23:14.230 --> 00:23:16.589
It was just another form of school. And that

00:23:16.589 --> 00:23:20.130
made me a good enough writer or a confident enough

00:23:20.130 --> 00:23:23.690
writer to then get into situations where I was

00:23:23.690 --> 00:23:25.809
putting myself in front of an audience. I had

00:23:25.809 --> 00:23:30.690
eventually, so my family moved to, it was West

00:23:30.690 --> 00:23:35.940
Germany at the time. okay and i met some german

00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:39.339
kids who needed a lead singer and me being an

00:23:39.339 --> 00:23:42.799
american was a big plus for them that's a novelty

00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.079
over there yeah they still that they probably

00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.279
still do it like to listen to rock and roll in

00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:55.319
english so get this kid so then i had they had

00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:56.819
they'd already been a band for a little bit they

00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:59.160
had an audience of german kids that would come

00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:01.960
to see them so i was writing and performing songs

00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:05.359
for a built -in audience and these guys wild

00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:09.019
it was weird because they i their music style

00:24:09.019 --> 00:24:13.779
was much more they dug starship and the scorpions

00:24:13.779 --> 00:24:16.079
and things that i didn't listen to oh yeah very

00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:19.240
commercial sort of stuff but i was gonna write

00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:22.880
for this music okay here we go anyway so that

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.460
was the first live band that i was in did you

00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:31.519
find it hard to to share songs that at that point

00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:35.339
or had you worked past that or was that like

00:24:35.339 --> 00:24:39.859
the trial by fire that was yeah part of it was

00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:41.500
like there was a little bit of pressure off because

00:24:41.500 --> 00:24:44.619
they weren't going to criticize my lyrics they

00:24:44.619 --> 00:24:47.099
weren't necessarily speaking English they just

00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:50.160
wanted to listen to it yeah yeah I was actually

00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.119
still singing some of the old songs that their

00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.940
previous singer had written in English which

00:24:54.940 --> 00:24:57.940
were like You're hot as sun like that kind of

00:24:57.940 --> 00:25:01.420
that level of writing in English. I'm gonna sing

00:25:01.420 --> 00:25:08.279
this broken English anyway Wow But it still was

00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:10.380
like a good it was a confidence boosting experience

00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:14.400
to be on stage Yeah with an audience and it's

00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.940
an audience of people that you weren't it's not

00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:18.960
like it was all the kids you grew up with Yeah,

00:25:18.980 --> 00:25:21.519
it's not like it was the kids that were that

00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:23.869
lived down the street. There was You might see

00:25:23.869 --> 00:25:29.970
these people in Germany, but it wasn't like your

00:25:29.970 --> 00:25:32.049
hometown. I wasn't going to see him at school,

00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:37.470
even like my school friends didn't go out. So

00:25:37.470 --> 00:25:39.769
it was a really different friend group. Anyway,

00:25:40.029 --> 00:25:43.769
it was cool. I came back to the States, went

00:25:43.769 --> 00:25:45.910
to college at the Berklee College of Music in

00:25:45.910 --> 00:25:48.549
Boston, and then moved back to Atlanta after

00:25:48.549 --> 00:25:52.420
that and had different experiences. And what

00:25:52.420 --> 00:25:55.019
did you focus on in college, in music? Was it

00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:57.900
what you're doing now, or was it more composition?

00:25:58.059 --> 00:26:01.660
It was. They try to make you as well -rounded

00:26:01.660 --> 00:26:05.099
as possible. We had a lot of music theory. We

00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:09.259
had arranging classes. But my focus was music

00:26:09.259 --> 00:26:12.579
production and engineering. So there was an acoustics

00:26:12.579 --> 00:26:16.119
class, so you could really get what's the reflection

00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:19.740
coefficient of this plaster wall over here. I

00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:22.460
was told there would be no math, but it was math.

00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.779
But yeah, it's just a, and then you would have

00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:29.240
to turn in recording projects. So this is what,

00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:31.859
propose a thing. This is what I'm going to do.

00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.779
This is my budget. These are the people that

00:26:34.779 --> 00:26:36.359
I'm going to get to play on the session. Here's

00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:39.019
the songwriter, here are the performers. Okay,

00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:42.220
book a session at the studio and turn in your

00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:45.279
song, turn in your recording. All great experiences

00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.940
that really didn't prepare me. for the real world

00:26:48.940 --> 00:26:52.799
where nobody's giving you a budget at all. And

00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.140
everybody just suddenly bought home recording

00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:59.519
studios of their own. And the world of pro recording

00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:05.940
is getting much, much smaller. Yeah. But mastering

00:27:05.940 --> 00:27:10.359
is still very important. And that seems to be

00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:13.519
where you saw that almost a little bit. It's

00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:17.460
funny. I thought I was going to be... George

00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:21.539
Martin or I think Steve Albini yeah Mitchell

00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:23.440
Froome I think was a big guy at the time that

00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:26.259
I liked I still like him a lot but those people

00:27:26.259 --> 00:27:29.119
are all well connected and know how to get money

00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:32.000
so you can't really be a producer at that level

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:34.839
unless you're already in you're already in that

00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:38.180
system somewhere I wasn't I start I tried to

00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:40.160
be a recording engineer I was a recording engineer

00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:45.210
it's pretty good but I went to mastering partially

00:27:45.210 --> 00:27:47.410
because the a lot of the bands i was working

00:27:47.410 --> 00:27:51.490
with didn't know what it was and when they weren't

00:27:51.490 --> 00:27:53.269
gonna get their records mastered they were just

00:27:53.269 --> 00:27:56.390
gonna somehow plop it on cd i'll be honest i

00:27:56.390 --> 00:28:00.670
i only in the last five years really feel like

00:28:00.670 --> 00:28:03.190
i started to understand what the importance of

00:28:03.190 --> 00:28:06.529
mastering an album really was yeah and even what

00:28:06.529 --> 00:28:09.789
remastering is and i know you you did like a

00:28:09.789 --> 00:28:12.690
lot of the allman brothers reissues if i'm not

00:28:12.690 --> 00:28:15.519
mistaken right yeah A lot of live recordings

00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.519
and one really big comprehensive box set. How

00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.000
do you approach mastering an album for the first

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.900
time versus mastering a reissue or a re -release?

00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:29.500
I think a lot of how I... Okay, so mastering

00:28:29.500 --> 00:28:31.680
an album for the first time, you're thinking

00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.119
about the market that record is going to try

00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:40.200
to meet. So if it's a rap record or a new pop

00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.940
record or a hard rock record or a folk record,

00:28:43.769 --> 00:28:46.170
The person listening to it wants certain things.

00:28:46.210 --> 00:28:47.910
And I guess you're trying to put yourself into,

00:28:48.009 --> 00:28:50.829
what does this person expect? And how can I,

00:28:51.589 --> 00:28:54.910
has the artist gotten close to that? Or do I

00:28:54.910 --> 00:28:56.710
need to help them push it over there? And it

00:28:56.710 --> 00:28:58.210
might even be like, where are they listening

00:28:58.210 --> 00:29:01.230
to this music? And things like that too, right?

00:29:01.269 --> 00:29:04.049
Yeah, for sure, yeah. So the artistic part of

00:29:04.049 --> 00:29:09.549
mastering is that, is judging how close the team

00:29:09.549 --> 00:29:14.809
got to their goal. the sonic goal and and seeing

00:29:14.809 --> 00:29:18.490
if you can find what's really of merit what's

00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:20.410
beautiful about this recording and get it all

00:29:20.410 --> 00:29:23.970
the way to the finish line remastering a lot

00:29:23.970 --> 00:29:26.950
of times what you're doing is maybe correcting

00:29:26.950 --> 00:29:31.509
past sins if there are any sometimes it's not

00:29:31.509 --> 00:29:33.750
too often but sometimes remastering is pointless

00:29:33.750 --> 00:29:37.230
to be very honest he's done the job well before

00:29:37.230 --> 00:29:41.150
i feel like the only time i've heard it and i'm

00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:44.009
not even who it would have been remastered for.

00:29:44.250 --> 00:29:46.089
But I feel like there was a lot of times over

00:29:46.089 --> 00:29:49.109
the years where people used to listen to this

00:29:49.109 --> 00:29:51.289
a certain way. Now they're listening to it over

00:29:51.289 --> 00:29:56.829
earbuds. And so that might be the main kind of

00:29:56.829 --> 00:29:59.990
adjustment that somebody might make on a remaster.

00:30:00.269 --> 00:30:03.690
Yeah. So when CDs first came out, a lot of those

00:30:03.690 --> 00:30:07.710
CDs were made from tapes that were prepared for

00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:12.069
cutting vinyl. So they were... compressed a certain

00:30:12.069 --> 00:30:15.009
way, EQ'd a certain way. And maybe they didn't

00:30:15.009 --> 00:30:17.910
sound so bad, but they weren't really what the

00:30:17.910 --> 00:30:22.390
producer and the artist intended. And they were

00:30:22.390 --> 00:30:24.690
at a certain loudness level. Like I said, there

00:30:24.690 --> 00:30:26.450
was no consistent loudness level, and there still

00:30:26.450 --> 00:30:30.069
isn't. Anyway, that's a big... Big subject. We

00:30:30.069 --> 00:30:31.809
could do a whole episode on that, I feel like.

00:30:31.930 --> 00:30:35.130
I almost asked you about loudness. And I was

00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:36.569
like, I don't know if I want to open that can

00:30:36.569 --> 00:30:38.970
of worms yet. There's a really good book by David

00:30:38.970 --> 00:30:41.470
Byrne called How Music Works. I love that book.

00:30:41.490 --> 00:30:43.630
It's really cool. David Byrne's one of my favorite

00:30:43.630 --> 00:30:46.150
people on the planet. Yeah, he's really interesting.

00:30:46.890 --> 00:30:50.130
Really interesting mind on that guy. And he describes

00:30:50.130 --> 00:30:52.630
pretty well, I think, how the loudness war is

00:30:52.630 --> 00:30:56.049
ramped up. And now we're deflating from them.

00:30:56.809 --> 00:31:00.170
And so... the previous sins you might be correcting

00:31:00.170 --> 00:31:02.210
our role somebody took the entire talking heads

00:31:02.210 --> 00:31:04.630
catalog and limited the fuck out of it yeah it's

00:31:04.630 --> 00:31:07.470
no dynamic range at all i'm not going to touch

00:31:07.470 --> 00:31:10.009
that of course but that's the kind of thing that

00:31:10.009 --> 00:31:13.589
that you might be fixing sometimes artists remaster

00:31:13.589 --> 00:31:15.390
their own records and they totally fuck them

00:31:15.390 --> 00:31:17.430
up too yeah they're like oh this is how it was

00:31:17.430 --> 00:31:20.599
supposed to sound and Or remix them like that.

00:31:20.660 --> 00:31:23.480
We've already heard it, dude. Sorry, you're wrong.

00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:28.099
Man, Iggy and the Stooges, Raw Power. Yeah. I've

00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:30.799
heard the two versions of that. Definitely. Neither

00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:32.980
one of them sound good. But the Bowie version,

00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:36.660
to me, is by far the superior version of a bad

00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:39.359
-sounding record. It's more creative. I don't

00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:43.180
know. Anyway, yeah. So when did you move to Athens?

00:31:43.819 --> 00:31:49.059
25 years ago, almost exactly. And what was it

00:31:49.059 --> 00:31:53.640
like you graduated or had you out? I don't want

00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.200
to I don't want to I don't want to miss anything.

00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:57.480
But so if there's anything between graduation

00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.480
and moving to Athens that you want to plug in

00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:03.980
here, let's go. But sure. So I moved back to

00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:09.000
Atlanta and I was trying to find I didn't have

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.460
high school or middle school friends to go hang

00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:15.180
out with from the previous time that my previous

00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:17.700
Atlanta era. They were all off somewhere else.

00:32:18.380 --> 00:32:21.519
So I started going to open mics and playing songs

00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:25.440
there and meeting people there and found some

00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.980
friends. It was a guy named David Dalt and he

00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:31.220
needed a drummer and he needed a recording engineer.

00:32:32.019 --> 00:32:35.759
I joined his band and I recorded his songs and

00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:40.640
I met another guy named... Zeus Henderson, and

00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:42.599
he was in a pop band called Orange Hat, and I

00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:44.160
joined his band and played drums for him. Well,

00:32:44.180 --> 00:32:45.740
at this point, you were getting a two -for -one

00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:49.200
deal from you, right? Yeah. So I bet you were

00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.819
super popular. Yeah, they put up with my spazzy

00:32:52.819 --> 00:32:58.680
drumming. Anyway, I met Kay Stanton through one

00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:03.099
of those bands, and as we got serious and started

00:33:03.099 --> 00:33:05.559
to talk about getting married and buying a house,

00:33:05.740 --> 00:33:09.259
realized that we couldn't. afford anything in

00:33:09.259 --> 00:33:13.259
Atlanta. And the traffic in Atlanta will kill

00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:17.119
you faster than anything. I've met Brian Poole.

00:33:17.420 --> 00:33:21.660
I've never experienced traffic that's bumper

00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:24.259
to bumper and also going 90 miles an hour at

00:33:24.259 --> 00:33:27.019
all times. It's the most terrifying fucking thing

00:33:27.019 --> 00:33:30.299
in the world. It's the only place I've ever experienced

00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.819
it is Atlanta. I lost my license a couple of

00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:34.779
times in Atlanta because I learned how to drive

00:33:34.779 --> 00:33:38.750
there. It's a terrible place to drive. I'm a

00:33:38.750 --> 00:33:41.750
much better driver now. But he wasn't kidding.

00:33:41.829 --> 00:33:44.890
You're not kidding. It is probably one of the

00:33:44.890 --> 00:33:48.529
fastest ways to die in Atlanta. Yeah. It's scary.

00:33:48.730 --> 00:33:51.849
If it isn't a traffic accident, then it's just

00:33:51.849 --> 00:33:55.269
the level of anger that you're in every day.

00:33:55.269 --> 00:33:57.829
The years of your life that you can't get back.

00:33:57.950 --> 00:34:03.309
Yeah. That's rough. So David Dalt. who introduced

00:34:03.309 --> 00:34:05.789
me to Kay Stanton. Previous to that, he had introduced

00:34:05.789 --> 00:34:08.409
me to a friend of his from Columbus, Georgia,

00:34:08.449 --> 00:34:12.809
named Brian Poole, who lived here in Athens and

00:34:12.809 --> 00:34:16.349
would commute into Atlanta to play bass in the

00:34:16.349 --> 00:34:18.869
band. When he left, that's when Kay came in,

00:34:18.909 --> 00:34:22.250
but I stayed in touch with Brian, and I'd met

00:34:22.250 --> 00:34:26.829
Ben Spraker. He'll be here in about 45 minutes.

00:34:27.210 --> 00:34:30.130
Want to wrap it up? Oh, no, we got time. We're

00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:33.789
good. That's funny, like Kevin. Yeah, no, it

00:34:33.789 --> 00:34:36.730
just worked out like that. It was funny. I was

00:34:36.730 --> 00:34:38.989
like, oh, boy, sometimes you're like, hopefully

00:34:38.989 --> 00:34:42.190
these guys like each other. It's like, oh, shit,

00:34:42.269 --> 00:34:44.750
what have I done? I'm not from here. I don't

00:34:44.750 --> 00:34:47.989
know all those. Black eyes, scheduling. Yeah.

00:34:48.929 --> 00:34:52.969
So Ben was another super nice guy that, like,

00:34:53.010 --> 00:34:55.809
he's calling me up, just telling me like, hey,

00:34:55.829 --> 00:34:57.409
I really liked your band and I liked your guitar

00:34:57.409 --> 00:35:00.789
playing. I'm like, nobody ever says that. Wait,

00:35:00.809 --> 00:35:04.010
are we friends? Cool. Okay. So I moved to, Kay

00:35:04.010 --> 00:35:06.349
and I decided we'd moved to Athens. We'd looked

00:35:06.349 --> 00:35:08.730
for a place and the Elephant Six thing was going

00:35:08.730 --> 00:35:11.190
here. Let's get there. And as soon as we moved

00:35:11.190 --> 00:35:13.170
here, all those bands were breaking up or like

00:35:13.170 --> 00:35:16.949
having big lineup shifts or whatever. So we missed

00:35:16.949 --> 00:35:21.130
the main era of that. We were big fans and some

00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:23.829
of it was still going on. So we, we started,

00:35:23.909 --> 00:35:26.590
we continued our band here, which was Casper

00:35:26.590 --> 00:35:30.820
and the Cookies. And just. plug ourselves into

00:35:30.820 --> 00:35:33.380
this scene are you a fan of alliteration is that

00:35:33.380 --> 00:35:36.199
important to you because it's important to me

00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.579
and i like yeah yeah i like alliteration but

00:35:39.579 --> 00:35:43.380
it's like puns to me it's like a cheap literary

00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:47.760
device but a very to me i like junk food too

00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.639
yeah but especially when you're talking about

00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.840
like a band name or something like that where

00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.719
it's got to be something that punches somebody

00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:58.820
immediately yeah our band name is a whole other

00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.000
story i don't like it but if it works for other

00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:04.739
people that's fine i was just thinking about

00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:07.659
the alliterative the alliterative nature of it

00:36:07.659 --> 00:36:10.539
i thought for some reason that because will oldham

00:36:10.539 --> 00:36:12.800
was able to get away with changing his project

00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.440
name for every release that means anybody could

00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:20.059
do that so i was going to go buy a new name for

00:36:20.059 --> 00:36:23.809
every record And I was going to put Casper Fandango

00:36:23.809 --> 00:36:25.809
on the knees. It was Casper Fandango and his

00:36:25.809 --> 00:36:28.090
tiny, sick tears. And then it was Casper and

00:36:28.090 --> 00:36:30.210
the Cookies, and it was going to be Casper Fandango

00:36:30.210 --> 00:36:33.070
and Soft Rhombus. But as soon as I got other

00:36:33.070 --> 00:36:34.710
people into the band, they were like, no, keep

00:36:34.710 --> 00:36:39.010
that name, man. You got outvoted in your own

00:36:39.010 --> 00:36:41.530
band. That sucks. Oh, man, I was right the whole

00:36:41.530 --> 00:36:46.050
time. So you meet Ben, and you move to Athens.

00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:53.039
Got an internship at Chase Park. I did the time

00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:54.880
-honored tradition of getting a job at Dial America,

00:36:55.179 --> 00:36:57.539
and then I worked at Belgium. Are they hiring

00:36:57.539 --> 00:36:59.719
right now? Because I am looking to relocate,

00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:02.920
perhaps. I think they're always hiring. Oh, sweet.

00:37:03.099 --> 00:37:10.000
Okay, good. Yeah, so yeah, I did that. The reason

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.579
I really ended up in mastering was because I

00:37:12.579 --> 00:37:15.460
got really burned out recording other people's

00:37:15.460 --> 00:37:19.250
music. It's a if even something that you love

00:37:19.250 --> 00:37:21.489
if you've got to spend way more time It's like

00:37:21.489 --> 00:37:23.610
being stuck in traffic in a way like I could

00:37:23.610 --> 00:37:25.989
be doing something else right now. Yeah, yeah

00:37:25.989 --> 00:37:29.789
Even if you love it, if you don't love it, it's

00:37:29.789 --> 00:37:33.530
even worse We're good. I'm just checking everything

00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:36.210
out right on Yeah, yeah, we're in good shape

00:37:36.210 --> 00:37:40.789
One of these mics is on that's okay anyway so

00:37:40.789 --> 00:37:43.869
the the reason I like mastering was because you

00:37:43.869 --> 00:37:47.389
still get to to interact and improve music that

00:37:47.389 --> 00:37:49.329
you're working with, but you only need to spend

00:37:49.329 --> 00:37:53.710
a day, two days max. So if you hate a record,

00:37:53.829 --> 00:37:55.969
it's only a day. If you love a record, you can

00:37:55.969 --> 00:37:58.670
spend all day with it. And then I figured I actually

00:37:58.670 --> 00:38:02.590
had some facility in the art of mastering, so

00:38:02.590 --> 00:38:05.670
that's... What were some of the first records

00:38:05.670 --> 00:38:08.289
that you mastered where you felt like you were

00:38:08.289 --> 00:38:10.659
really starting to... it was clicking and it

00:38:10.659 --> 00:38:13.320
started to feel natural and like you were doing

00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:17.900
the right thing that's uh let's see i one of

00:38:17.900 --> 00:38:21.860
the i'm not sure what the first one was but when

00:38:21.860 --> 00:38:24.800
the when i started to work with vanessa from

00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:28.820
pylon in her super cluster project i didn't master

00:38:28.820 --> 00:38:31.840
that record but i'd started to master records

00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.920
by the time that she was talking about doing

00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.769
a pylon reissue campaign on vinyl i said talk

00:38:38.769 --> 00:38:43.150
to me about it i'd love to consider me for the

00:38:43.150 --> 00:38:46.150
project knowing you could get anybody great to

00:38:46.150 --> 00:38:50.530
do it and she put me forward and everybody agreed

00:38:50.530 --> 00:38:55.590
to let me master this four lp box set and that

00:38:55.590 --> 00:39:00.989
was a big risk for them i think and i knew that

00:39:00.989 --> 00:39:02.969
i needed to rise to the challenge that when i

00:39:02.969 --> 00:39:05.530
did that's when i was like okay i know that i

00:39:05.530 --> 00:39:09.730
can do this now if i could Make this goal. Don't

00:39:09.730 --> 00:39:12.690
disappoint this great band. There's this moment

00:39:12.690 --> 00:39:16.690
in Cameron Crowe's last documentary about Tom

00:39:16.690 --> 00:39:20.230
Petty that they're like sitting on the bus and

00:39:20.230 --> 00:39:24.230
they're like, Tom's got a guitar, but I don't

00:39:24.230 --> 00:39:26.789
think he's not playing it at the moment. And

00:39:26.789 --> 00:39:30.969
they're just having a conversation and Cameron's

00:39:30.969 --> 00:39:35.159
like, and he's like 25 at this point. I'm not

00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:37.219
a director. I've never directed anything. At

00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:41.199
this point, he's just interviewing Tom Petty

00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:45.679
and on the road with him. And he's like, pick

00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:49.300
up that camera. And he picks it up. And then

00:39:49.300 --> 00:39:53.360
Tom plays a song. And he's like, now you're a

00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:58.280
director. And it was like one of those moments

00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:00.760
where it's just like you get put into the right

00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:03.579
position by the right person. You rise to the

00:40:03.579 --> 00:40:06.900
challenge. But then that builds the confidence

00:40:06.900 --> 00:40:10.780
to keep going. Yeah. So my actual transition

00:40:10.780 --> 00:40:13.519
to mastering is like that. I had been working

00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.679
at Uber Prints, the on -demand T -shirt printing

00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:20.380
company that's here in town. And the way that

00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:26.440
their computer system was set up, you go to work

00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:29.179
and you see how many jobs there are in the hopper,

00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:33.369
basically. You try to do as many easy ones as

00:40:33.369 --> 00:40:37.789
you can. But if there's like a room full of people

00:40:37.789 --> 00:40:40.570
on computers, some of them have figured out how

00:40:40.570 --> 00:40:43.369
to look at a different list and scoop these easy

00:40:43.369 --> 00:40:46.210
jobs so their numbers look good. And the people

00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:47.730
that are running the company are looking at those

00:40:47.730 --> 00:40:49.909
numbers. And if you don't make those numbers,

00:40:50.030 --> 00:40:52.170
then you're not a good employee. Meanwhile, there's

00:40:52.170 --> 00:40:55.449
somebody like wanting to print T -shirts of some

00:40:55.449 --> 00:40:59.269
Polaroid from 1976 that they've scanned badly.

00:40:59.980 --> 00:41:01.880
and it's going to make a terrible -looking shirt.

00:41:02.860 --> 00:41:06.199
Somebody's got to save this shirt. And that's

00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:08.760
the only one in the queue that nobody's choosing.

00:41:08.860 --> 00:41:10.920
Why are there three shirts in the queue, and

00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:13.179
it's just this one crappy -looking shirt? I guess

00:41:13.179 --> 00:41:14.739
I'm going to have to do that job. It's going

00:41:14.739 --> 00:41:16.760
to take me an hour, and it's going to look bad

00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:20.420
on my numbers. So I basically got fired because

00:41:20.420 --> 00:41:23.079
my numbers were bad because everybody was stealing

00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:26.699
jobs from a different screen. And I got fired.

00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:28.820
I was like, what? Ain't that a kick in the pants?

00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:33.980
My first... We have min -maxed our way out of

00:41:33.980 --> 00:41:36.480
everything good in this country. I was like,

00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:41.420
it's really crazy. So my mindset is I'm a very

00:41:41.420 --> 00:41:44.559
detail -oriented person. So I was fine doing

00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:47.739
those jobs, but the fact that I was reprimanded

00:41:47.739 --> 00:41:49.619
for doing them just didn't make sense to me.

00:41:50.139 --> 00:41:52.519
You need somebody to do this. Yeah, I worked

00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:54.659
with a team of graphic designers for a while.

00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:57.760
We had our production artists that would get

00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:01.599
out the quick and dirty jobs, like the ones that

00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:03.539
are clean and they just needed to get done. Sure.

00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:07.380
And then we had the artists that would actually

00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:11.139
create something. And they were just different

00:42:11.139 --> 00:42:14.500
roles. They were both important, but they were

00:42:14.500 --> 00:42:16.559
just different roles. That you can't see that

00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:18.460
you need somebody to do that is just weird to

00:42:18.460 --> 00:42:21.360
me. Yeah, that is wild. Fuck that place. Don't

00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.960
get your t -shirts there. Fuck Uber Prince. I

00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:26.440
don't even know if they're still around. I'm

00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:28.900
sure they are, and they are still hiring. Sorry,

00:42:29.900 --> 00:42:34.559
guys. Always hiring. So my first contact was

00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:36.260
to David Barbie. I was like, look, this just

00:42:36.260 --> 00:42:40.340
happened, and I'm looking for any opportunity

00:42:40.340 --> 00:42:42.739
at all. My dream job would be master engineer

00:42:42.739 --> 00:42:45.460
at Chase Park, but you've got somebody doing

00:42:45.460 --> 00:42:50.170
that, I know. So just if anybody asks. for anybody

00:42:50.170 --> 00:42:54.409
let them know i'm around and david said actually

00:42:54.409 --> 00:42:57.250
our mastering engineer i just moved out of state

00:42:57.250 --> 00:43:01.550
and we're looking for somebody so within i was

00:43:01.550 --> 00:43:04.489
it was really meant to be in a way and i've been

00:43:04.489 --> 00:43:07.289
there i've been there almost 10 years now what

00:43:07.289 --> 00:43:10.349
are some of your if you don't want to pick favorites

00:43:10.349 --> 00:43:12.750
that's fine but if you if you do want to share

00:43:12.750 --> 00:43:14.630
what are some of your favorite records that you've

00:43:14.630 --> 00:43:17.449
mastered over the years oh i should have prepared

00:43:17.449 --> 00:43:21.070
that this list Because there's a lot of records.

00:43:21.190 --> 00:43:23.869
I also, I'm one of these guys, too, where I can

00:43:23.869 --> 00:43:25.929
tell if I asked you the same question tomorrow,

00:43:26.050 --> 00:43:29.510
it might be a different answer. Yeah, it really

00:43:29.510 --> 00:43:34.429
might be. Pylon Box, that Allman Brothers, it's

00:43:34.429 --> 00:43:39.989
like a, what is it, a 12 or 14 LP box set. Those

00:43:39.989 --> 00:43:42.969
are major undertakings. There's another Allman

00:43:42.969 --> 00:43:45.329
Brothers project that's going to come out. There's

00:43:45.329 --> 00:43:47.800
not a date set for it yet, but it's... it's going

00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.440
to be like the best of the unreleased live. When

00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.460
you're doing something of that caliber in terms

00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:58.280
of, instead of just something that isn't already

00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:01.639
being followed by like millions of people, is

00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:04.519
there pressure? Oh, for sure, man. That, that

00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:08.639
is. Yeah. And then you've got some records don't,

00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:10.860
nobody reviews them and other ones, everybody's

00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:14.679
got an opinion. So we did this record. The last.

00:44:15.530 --> 00:44:19.730
The final note, I think, the last recorded concert

00:44:19.730 --> 00:44:24.750
that Dwayne Allman played, he did two sets, and

00:44:24.750 --> 00:44:27.269
somebody recorded the first set on a Kmart cassette

00:44:27.269 --> 00:44:29.809
in the back of the theater with an ambient microphone.

00:44:30.369 --> 00:44:33.250
And it sounds like garbage, and I worked on it,

00:44:33.289 --> 00:44:35.889
and it sounds like slightly better garbage, but

00:44:35.889 --> 00:44:38.829
it's historical. But somebody's going to go to

00:44:38.829 --> 00:44:40.909
the store and put their money down and buy this

00:44:40.909 --> 00:44:43.369
thing and get it home and be like, who mastered

00:44:43.369 --> 00:44:48.510
this shit? You know, it's this guy. Do you lose

00:44:48.510 --> 00:44:52.190
sleep over those people? I have before. I don't

00:44:52.190 --> 00:44:54.829
anymore. I did what I could, man. You should

00:44:54.829 --> 00:44:57.610
have heard it before. But there's even like Bo

00:44:57.610 --> 00:45:01.429
Bedingfield is a great songwriter that I've done

00:45:01.429 --> 00:45:03.530
a little bit of work for. Gosh, he was playing

00:45:03.530 --> 00:45:08.329
in Eye Candy for a while. And they came through

00:45:08.329 --> 00:45:12.289
Tallahassee a few times. That's how John Neff

00:45:12.289 --> 00:45:15.000
and I first started hanging out. back then was

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.619
i'd known him from the truckers a little bit

00:45:17.619 --> 00:45:21.559
here and there but man wow we got into two live

00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:25.219
crew on the destin beach and oh wow i will never

00:45:25.219 --> 00:45:28.039
forget that night man i've ever heard two live

00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:29.920
crew on a walkman in the back of the school bus

00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:34.239
you could say that he is a claw i don't even

00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:35.980
know how true this is because it might have just

00:45:35.980 --> 00:45:39.320
been that one night but john neth loves two live

00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:42.960
crew i believe It's just a rumor I'm starting.

00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:48.340
That's hilarious. Totally, I bought it. We really

00:45:48.340 --> 00:45:51.320
did watch a shitload of 2 Live Crew videos that

00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:54.440
night. The reason I said, wow, Neff, was because

00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.679
he's on this new record that Mike Richmond of

00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.780
Love Tractor has got a record that's currently

00:46:00.780 --> 00:46:04.679
in production, I think. It's not been announced

00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:06.659
what label it's going to be on or anything, but

00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:09.619
it was recorded with Matt Tammeson. Somebody

00:46:09.619 --> 00:46:13.070
else you should talk to. And the band has got

00:46:13.070 --> 00:46:17.349
Joe Rose on drums. David Barbie's on bass on

00:46:17.349 --> 00:46:20.329
some of the songs. Ben Hackett's on bass on other

00:46:20.329 --> 00:46:24.889
songs. And I'm going to miss some people. John

00:46:24.889 --> 00:46:27.650
Neff is laying down some pedal steel on a bunch

00:46:27.650 --> 00:46:30.050
of things. There are other folks I'm forgetting.

00:46:30.170 --> 00:46:32.590
I'm sorry. I love watching him play, man. He's

00:46:32.590 --> 00:46:35.929
such a beast. He's just the tastiest. Really

00:46:35.929 --> 00:46:38.849
is. And I love that if you're a pedal steel player,

00:46:39.690 --> 00:46:43.809
you're trying to you're working on a on an orb

00:46:43.809 --> 00:46:46.110
you're trying to like dance on an orb there are

00:46:46.110 --> 00:46:48.829
no frets you know what i mean and intonation

00:46:48.829 --> 00:46:51.210
is so hard to do on those things i've never touched

00:46:51.210 --> 00:46:54.550
one because it's frightening as hell and if you're

00:46:54.550 --> 00:46:57.150
just a little bit out then you're ruining things

00:46:57.150 --> 00:47:01.090
but if you're on right it's this whole beautiful

00:47:01.090 --> 00:47:05.989
yeah it is very delicate So the guy who's the

00:47:05.989 --> 00:47:08.510
biggest 2 Live Crew fan anybody's ever known

00:47:08.510 --> 00:47:12.030
is actually like the Buddha. He's just in the

00:47:12.030 --> 00:47:17.710
moment, just so calm. Yep. Yes. Very precise.

00:47:18.570 --> 00:47:22.630
Very precise. Yeah. But not in a... Mechanical

00:47:22.630 --> 00:47:26.150
way. No, in a very fluid way. It's just so beautiful

00:47:26.150 --> 00:47:30.409
to behold. Yeah. Yeah, he really is just absolute...

00:47:32.429 --> 00:47:34.329
I don't know. I just get goosebumps every time

00:47:34.329 --> 00:47:37.090
I see him play. Too bad he's such a jerk. Yeah.

00:47:37.429 --> 00:47:38.869
No, I was supposed to interview him. I don't

00:47:38.869 --> 00:47:41.130
want to give him a big head. We call him Pajama

00:47:41.130 --> 00:47:43.230
Neff on this podcast because that's how he likes

00:47:43.230 --> 00:47:46.130
to record most of his sessions, apparently. That

00:47:46.130 --> 00:47:48.690
was something slightly famous somebody started

00:47:48.690 --> 00:47:54.010
when they were on. But he was actually, he's

00:47:54.010 --> 00:47:55.570
not feeling right now. He was actually supposed

00:47:55.570 --> 00:47:57.969
to meet with him yesterday, but that asshole

00:47:57.969 --> 00:48:01.500
canceled. I think he's faking sick. When you're

00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:05.639
mastering something that is being released on

00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:10.219
multiple formats, streaming, CD, vinyl, let's

00:48:10.219 --> 00:48:13.139
say all three same release, how do you approach

00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:15.719
each one of those formats differently? Is it

00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:18.619
like a totally different thing or is it the same

00:48:18.619 --> 00:48:21.000
exact thing or somewhere in between? To me, it

00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:24.019
is not a totally different thing. It's a matter

00:48:24.019 --> 00:48:28.420
of if I am actually... So to master something

00:48:28.420 --> 00:48:30.940
really means you're fixing it to its final form.

00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:35.739
So if I'm doing digital files, yeah, I'm mastering.

00:48:35.860 --> 00:48:38.500
If I'm doing a CD master, I can create an image

00:48:38.500 --> 00:48:42.760
of that CD. That's the master. And those are

00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:45.880
very similar mediums as far as what kind of dynamic

00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:48.599
range you're delivering, what's going to happen

00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:50.539
to them later. And people are listening to them

00:48:50.539 --> 00:48:53.559
in similar settings too. You're not mastering

00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:58.929
a record for a car stereo. Exactly. But a CD,

00:48:59.110 --> 00:49:00.710
you're going to listen to it in your car probably

00:49:00.710 --> 00:49:04.329
if you're old. Or you're going to listen to files

00:49:04.329 --> 00:49:08.329
streaming on earbuds or in your car. So you've

00:49:08.329 --> 00:49:11.090
got road noise, certain things. You still have

00:49:11.090 --> 00:49:14.630
to have it loud enough to get over some obstacles

00:49:14.630 --> 00:49:18.949
like that. But an LP, somebody else is going

00:49:18.949 --> 00:49:20.750
to, unless you have a lathe, and I don't yet,

00:49:20.869 --> 00:49:22.710
although if you have a lot of money and you would

00:49:22.710 --> 00:49:24.050
like to give it to me, that's what I'm going

00:49:24.050 --> 00:49:29.179
to do with it. Give me a lathe. When I buy two,

00:49:29.420 --> 00:49:31.800
I'll let you know. Thank you. Yeah, do that.

00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:37.059
Two. So somebody on the other end of that lathe

00:49:37.059 --> 00:49:40.480
is going to decide what their equipment can tolerate.

00:49:40.820 --> 00:49:43.659
So I'm going to give them something with more

00:49:43.659 --> 00:49:47.840
dynamics. Not a ton more, but I'm going to let

00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:50.420
them do the job to the best of their equipment's

00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:53.980
ability and their knowledge. So sonically, they're

00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:56.690
going to sound very similar. Like to the point

00:49:56.690 --> 00:50:00.769
that if I AB'd them and they were the same volume,

00:50:00.889 --> 00:50:03.050
the same loudness, you probably wouldn't really

00:50:03.050 --> 00:50:05.170
be able to tell the difference which one was

00:50:05.170 --> 00:50:08.730
which. But different things are going to happen

00:50:08.730 --> 00:50:11.150
to them so that they are technically they're

00:50:11.150 --> 00:50:15.090
different. But it's just me trying to make it

00:50:15.090 --> 00:50:19.030
sound as beautiful as possible. Like I want to

00:50:19.030 --> 00:50:20.869
hear the space around the instruments to the

00:50:20.869 --> 00:50:23.949
degree that is the intent of. It's always just

00:50:23.949 --> 00:50:27.179
trying to. grab the intent i don't know what

00:50:27.179 --> 00:50:30.239
do you what do you think is going on like with

00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:33.500
the future of vinyl press i think lathe cut is

00:50:33.500 --> 00:50:37.000
gonna have to be a big part of it because there's

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.579
only one company making the lacquer plates anymore

00:50:39.579 --> 00:50:43.579
this is a very this is like actually like a big

00:50:43.579 --> 00:50:46.219
deal in music and if you're not paying attention

00:50:46.219 --> 00:50:48.539
to this and care about vinyl you absolutely should

00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:52.320
be yeah so for two years now i've gone to this

00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:56.400
conference called making vinyl And it's a lot

00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:58.679
of people who manufacture, they press records,

00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:00.460
a lot of record pressing plants, a lot of people

00:51:00.460 --> 00:51:03.699
who supply those plants and things like that.

00:51:03.860 --> 00:51:06.840
So those people are thinking in numbers of millions

00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:11.579
of units. And you can, they've made formulas

00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:17.539
of more bio -friendly, to some degree, material

00:51:17.539 --> 00:51:20.480
where they can press records without keeping,

00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:24.000
without taxing the... petrochemical reserves

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.239
or whatever and that stuff's really volatile

00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:30.519
too like it's dangerous yeah those plants are

00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:32.360
very dangerous but the lacquers that you're talking

00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:35.780
about that happened earlier in the process those

00:51:35.780 --> 00:51:39.780
are volatile and dangerous and it's very hard

00:51:39.780 --> 00:51:43.340
to it's very hard to come up with a recipe for

00:51:43.340 --> 00:51:46.039
those things and hard to keep that from blowing

00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:49.300
up and i think it's even it's really hard to

00:51:49.300 --> 00:51:53.159
build a new plant Yes. Two, because of all the

00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:56.440
regulations. Might be a little easier now, but

00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:59.000
not for the right reasons. Let's not get into

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:03.179
that. We're a very leftist podcast, but we don't

00:52:03.179 --> 00:52:05.239
do a lot of politics here. Unless I'm interviewing

00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:08.960
an activist or something. Sure, but it's just

00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.260
not why I'm here. I'm not here for the entertainment

00:52:12.260 --> 00:52:14.440
division of the military -industrial complex.

00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:17.260
Yeah, I heard you mention Zappa. We could get

00:52:17.260 --> 00:52:21.900
into some Zappa. Anyway, so look. Issues there

00:52:21.900 --> 00:52:27.719
are myriad. We don't have a lacquer manufacturer.

00:52:27.940 --> 00:52:29.719
So lacquer, if anybody doesn't know, lacquer

00:52:29.719 --> 00:52:33.820
is the standard way that records get mastered.

00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:38.239
If somebody cuts the record into a lacquer, the

00:52:38.239 --> 00:52:43.019
lacquer then gets plated and turned into stampers

00:52:43.019 --> 00:52:45.760
that become the records that you buy. And they

00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:48.119
only have a certain number of pressings before

00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:51.639
they have to be replaced and redone. But the

00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:55.219
lacquer gets used once. Okay. The lacquer itself.

00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:57.579
See, this is actually, this is a part of the

00:52:57.579 --> 00:52:59.880
process I don't think I realized. Yeah. So the

00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:01.599
lacquer gets, I'm going to get this wrong because

00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:04.880
it's been a few months since I reminded myself

00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:08.559
what the whole process was. So the lacquer, it's

00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:13.360
taken to the electroplating plant and they cover

00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:17.679
it with a layer of silver, like 100 microns thick,

00:53:17.739 --> 00:53:21.000
I think. And then they put it in a tank. And

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.980
they put it in there with an electrical charge

00:53:23.980 --> 00:53:26.420
and a bunch of nickel. And the nickel gloms onto

00:53:26.420 --> 00:53:30.659
the silver. And then they rip those things apart.

00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:35.239
And that's the first step of the plating process.

00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:38.000
And then they replicate that first one until

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.119
they can get as many stampers as they think they're

00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:42.219
going to need. And each one of those stampers

00:53:42.219 --> 00:53:44.380
is good for whatever, a thousand records. Okay.

00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:48.300
But you can make a whole bunch of those fathers.

00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:54.480
Or converted. The stampers? Yeah. Talk to me

00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:57.260
later after I've reviewed the process. I'm going

00:53:57.260 --> 00:53:59.840
to want to embarrass myself. Anyway, so yeah.

00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:02.679
But the lacquer that starts that whole process

00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:06.360
is the thing that is the most difficult to manufacture.

00:54:06.820 --> 00:54:10.619
And nobody's stepping up to the plate successfully.

00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:14.579
They've tried. No pun intended. Good one. That's

00:54:14.579 --> 00:54:19.239
it. I'm coming back to you. Improv. So. There's

00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:21.320
a couple of ways to get around it. One of them

00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:25.300
is direct metal mastering. The process used to

00:54:25.300 --> 00:54:27.860
be called DMM, but it's basically just copper.

00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:30.500
It's using copper instead of lacquer, but you

00:54:30.500 --> 00:54:32.300
have to set your lathe up differently. It's a

00:54:32.300 --> 00:54:34.460
whole thing. Nobody in America wants to do it.

00:54:34.539 --> 00:54:37.340
People in Europe do it sometimes. Does it sound

00:54:37.340 --> 00:54:41.099
different? Yeah, it sounds a little different.

00:54:41.860 --> 00:54:45.019
I think it sounds good. I think a lot of people

00:54:45.019 --> 00:54:48.239
have preconceived notions about it. how it sounds

00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.900
and maybe they had a bad history with buying

00:54:50.900 --> 00:54:55.219
a dmm record back in the 80s and the fact is

00:54:55.219 --> 00:54:57.719
we've all got those records yeah i've gotten

00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:00.760
records that are pressed now that like maybe

00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:02.880
they tried to cram too many songs onto a side

00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.699
right so the grooves yeah anyway whatever like

00:55:05.699 --> 00:55:09.019
yeah exactly that's just how it goes but there's

00:55:09.019 --> 00:55:14.380
so my point is like they found a way to to make

00:55:15.340 --> 00:55:17.940
the material to press records more bio -friendly

00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:21.300
and find other materials to do that with. But

00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:24.400
they haven't, because the scale is so much smaller,

00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:29.199
exponentially smaller, they won't put the money

00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:32.940
and the resources into developing another kind

00:55:32.940 --> 00:55:36.000
of compound instead of lacquer to cut masters

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.739
into. It's just not rewarding. Meanwhile, the

00:55:39.739 --> 00:55:44.179
entire record industry, or like 95 % of it, is

00:55:44.179 --> 00:55:48.679
dependent upon this one factory in Japan to not

00:55:48.679 --> 00:55:54.460
blow up. So it's crazy, and I want somebody to

00:55:54.460 --> 00:55:57.900
fix it, and I wish it could be me. Well, I think

00:55:57.900 --> 00:56:01.760
it's another example, and this comes up, it's

00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:04.019
almost become the theme of this fucking show

00:56:04.019 --> 00:56:08.820
at this point, where it's like maximizing efficiency

00:56:08.820 --> 00:56:14.860
and profits and diminishing, returns and all

00:56:14.860 --> 00:56:18.960
this shit at the end of the day that's what kills

00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:23.579
that's why everything sucks now that's why everything

00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:26.760
sucks it's not covid covid was the excuse they

00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:30.579
used to just fast track a bunch of that shit

00:56:30.579 --> 00:56:33.880
i mean i call it min maxing which is like in

00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:37.219
gaming if you're not familiar i'm not familiar

00:56:37.219 --> 00:56:40.519
okay so like in in like gaming like They might

00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:43.960
try. Min -maxing would be like if you're doing

00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.820
the minimum, you're trying to get through a game

00:56:46.820 --> 00:56:49.659
without upgrading your equipment or something

00:56:49.659 --> 00:56:52.380
like that throughout the game as efficiently

00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:57.000
as possible. Oh, I see. And maxing would be the

00:56:57.000 --> 00:56:59.880
opposite. It's like you're trying to, I want

00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:02.400
to do as much damage even though it's pointless

00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:04.280
or something like that. Even though it's like

00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:06.239
way more than it would ever be needed to beat

00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:09.730
the game. The game becomes how much damage can

00:57:09.730 --> 00:57:13.110
I do? And this is just an example, but this like

00:57:13.110 --> 00:57:16.929
minimizing and maximizing efficiencies and profits

00:57:16.929 --> 00:57:20.650
and it's been applied to everything now. And

00:57:20.650 --> 00:57:24.389
now if it's not profitable and things have to

00:57:24.389 --> 00:57:28.989
be somewhat, even if it's a labor of love, like

00:57:28.989 --> 00:57:31.289
it has to be something that like maybe the person's

00:57:31.289 --> 00:57:33.130
not going to lose everything on. Like it's got

00:57:33.130 --> 00:57:35.789
to have some kind of return on investment, right?

00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.219
The idea that it's just it's not gonna make them

00:57:39.219 --> 00:57:42.400
enough money To make it worth their time the

00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:46.760
it's not gonna make enough of a difference To

00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:50.320
them in their profit margins to invest in this

00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:54.320
thing. That's actually going to preserve music

00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:58.900
in a way that We're seeing it now with CDs like

00:57:58.900 --> 00:58:00.679
they're the ones that were sold in the 80s and

00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:05.190
90s. They're starting to oxidize meanwhile You

00:58:05.190 --> 00:58:07.590
can listen to records from 100 years ago, and

00:58:07.590 --> 00:58:11.630
I don't know about sound good, but they'll sound

00:58:11.630 --> 00:58:15.250
the way they did then. Yeah, yeah. And so the

00:58:15.250 --> 00:58:19.210
historian in me is panicking because then you

00:58:19.210 --> 00:58:23.530
think about the universal fire. Yeah, yeah. You're

00:58:23.530 --> 00:58:25.789
like, well, tape is a very stable format until

00:58:25.789 --> 00:58:28.949
you flood it or set it on fire. We're trusting

00:58:28.949 --> 00:58:33.110
the same people to preserve this stuff. Yeah.

00:58:33.690 --> 00:58:38.489
And that's terrifying to me. Yeah. At some point,

00:58:38.510 --> 00:58:43.650
everything is temporary. So that's not, I'm not

00:58:43.650 --> 00:58:45.170
trying to sound like that senator who's like,

00:58:45.269 --> 00:58:48.570
we're all going to die. I guess what I'm saying

00:58:48.570 --> 00:58:53.190
is like, some things are going to get lost. I'm

00:58:53.190 --> 00:58:55.050
thinking about my conversation with Kevin, actually.

00:58:55.849 --> 00:58:58.969
He talked about how important it was to him to

00:58:58.969 --> 00:59:02.730
have the physical record of his dad's music.

00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:07.340
And then how that became what drove him to make

00:59:07.340 --> 00:59:10.300
sure all of his music comes out on vinyl. So

00:59:10.300 --> 00:59:13.239
even if it's not about preserving it forever,

00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:16.219
maybe it's just preserving it for... My point

00:59:16.219 --> 00:59:19.460
is, I just think we lose this medium. We lose

00:59:19.460 --> 00:59:22.119
more than just the snob's way to listen to music.

00:59:23.059 --> 00:59:26.760
We're losing something way more substantial than

00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:29.860
that. It's a complicated thing to do to play

00:59:29.860 --> 00:59:31.860
a record, but it's not so complicated that you

00:59:31.860 --> 00:59:34.670
can't... Put one up in space with instructions

00:59:34.670 --> 00:59:36.889
for an extraterrestrial life form to follow.

00:59:37.349 --> 00:59:39.530
Play it back. Whose record are they playing?

00:59:39.769 --> 00:59:43.309
Is it my copy? Aliens stole my fucking records,

00:59:43.409 --> 00:59:48.869
man. Yeah, but that's my thing, too. I'll trust

00:59:48.869 --> 00:59:51.210
somebody to play their own records all day long.

00:59:51.909 --> 00:59:57.130
Oh, yeah. For sure. My instructions to play my

00:59:57.130 --> 00:59:58.730
records are going to be a lot more detailed.

00:59:59.289 --> 01:00:03.960
That is true love. Not only did Kay and I get

01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:06.840
married, wear rings, buy a house together, we

01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:08.800
merged our record collections, and we play each

01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:10.920
other's records, and that's just as intimate.

01:00:11.659 --> 01:00:14.719
That might be the most intimate thing I've ever

01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:17.679
heard about a couple ever, actually. Not just

01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:22.420
the merging. It's the playing. No, like emotionally.

01:00:23.119 --> 01:00:26.860
I mean that as somebody, and I can tell we're

01:00:26.860 --> 01:00:29.619
the same kind of nerd when it comes to that shit.

01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:32.920
The fact that you trust somebody else to just

01:00:32.920 --> 01:00:37.400
have free range of your records is wild. Well,

01:00:37.460 --> 01:00:40.079
beyond that, we merged. They're not even your

01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:42.199
records anymore. And then we got rid of the doubles.

01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:46.579
Yeah. Fuck. If we break up, who's copy of Stereolab

01:00:46.579 --> 01:00:51.300
Dots and Loops? That's why you got rid of them.

01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.639
So now you'll have to stay together. That's right.

01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:56.900
Yeah. That's a true commitment. Man, I feel like

01:00:56.900 --> 01:01:01.690
I could talk to you all day. what have you i

01:01:01.690 --> 01:01:03.469
feel like we haven't talked about your music

01:01:03.469 --> 01:01:07.650
very much at this point and i'd like to sure

01:01:07.650 --> 01:01:10.710
it sounds like it's something you had to put

01:01:10.710 --> 01:01:13.289
on the back burner at times and you're focused

01:01:13.289 --> 01:01:16.510
more on the engineering stuff and mastering stuff

01:01:16.510 --> 01:01:19.550
now that you've been i've changed just writing

01:01:19.550 --> 01:01:21.570
but i feel like we like got to a certain point

01:01:21.570 --> 01:01:24.389
like okay you're singing for this band in germany

01:01:24.389 --> 01:01:27.639
yeah what happened then what was like kind of

01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:30.340
the next stage in your songwriting performing

01:01:30.340 --> 01:01:34.920
evolution i had bands the whole time i guess

01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:38.739
can you just name drop here's the name dropping

01:01:38.739 --> 01:01:42.579
portion of the show okay yeah let's see i had

01:01:42.579 --> 01:01:45.519
a band in college called the blossoms these bands

01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:47.400
didn't release records it was just like we wanted

01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:50.420
to but and then in atlanta i played with a band

01:01:50.420 --> 01:01:55.639
called fire robin and orange hat and my buddy

01:01:56.110 --> 01:01:58.090
From the Bad Habits, we had a band called Mangled

01:01:58.090 --> 01:01:59.530
Duck, and then when I moved back to Atlanta,

01:01:59.610 --> 01:02:02.710
our band was called Lana Becomes a Man. And then

01:02:02.710 --> 01:02:04.969
he started The Shut -Ups, and I started Casper

01:02:04.969 --> 01:02:07.809
Fandango and his Tidy Sick Tears. Let's see.

01:02:08.070 --> 01:02:10.489
The list of bands that I've played in is crazy,

01:02:10.590 --> 01:02:12.269
but as far as who I've written for is pretty

01:02:12.269 --> 01:02:14.110
much Casper and the Cookies from that point out

01:02:14.110 --> 01:02:18.349
until that ended and Pilar Reenactment Society

01:02:18.349 --> 01:02:21.269
was starting up, and we started to write songs

01:02:21.269 --> 01:02:23.889
together. It was a very different process. Were

01:02:23.889 --> 01:02:28.369
you playing with them? before you did that box

01:02:28.369 --> 01:02:31.289
set or was that kind of did that kind of come

01:02:31.289 --> 01:02:35.429
together at the same time or they they were the

01:02:35.429 --> 01:02:40.510
same time but now the prs record didn't we didn't

01:02:40.510 --> 01:02:45.329
start to make that until 2021 we but we've been

01:02:45.329 --> 01:02:47.230
writing for it the box that came out in 2020

01:02:47.230 --> 01:02:50.349
we've been writing for a record that was going

01:02:50.349 --> 01:02:52.110
to get made and then covet happened and blah

01:02:52.110 --> 01:02:56.880
blah blah but yeah 2015 is when prs started in

01:02:56.880 --> 01:03:00.780
earnest that so prs is a democratic band much

01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:04.460
like pylon was but casper the cookies it was

01:03:04.460 --> 01:03:09.179
more on the beatles or xtc one of those gotcha

01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:12.340
a different kind of political system where like

01:03:12.340 --> 01:03:14.960
songwriters the person who tells you how the

01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:18.480
song's gonna go but and they also sounds like

01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.659
they sing it typically yeah unless they want

01:03:21.659 --> 01:03:24.449
unless they ask somebody else to sing it So with

01:03:24.449 --> 01:03:27.670
PRS, it's much more of a... The way that Casper

01:03:27.670 --> 01:03:29.070
did it and the way that the shut -ups do it is

01:03:29.070 --> 01:03:32.909
great. It's the way I was brought up, but I really

01:03:32.909 --> 01:03:35.389
like the sort of democratic form of songwriting

01:03:35.389 --> 01:03:37.630
where sometimes it can be more like a Ouija board.

01:03:37.809 --> 01:03:39.570
I don't know what we're doing, but something's

01:03:39.570 --> 01:03:42.369
getting spelled out. Suddenly there's a song.

01:03:43.389 --> 01:03:46.280
Somebody's going to have to work on it. true

01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:48.760
collaboration that you don't really hear about

01:03:48.760 --> 01:03:51.960
very often yeah it's like that people might write

01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:54.400
their parts sometimes and things like that but

01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:58.360
things get refined too sure some kind of a free

01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:00.460
-form jam somebody's gonna have to say that part's

01:04:00.460 --> 01:04:02.340
good and that part's not right you know what

01:04:02.340 --> 01:04:06.400
i mean but the raw materials came from a group

01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:09.539
improvisation one thing kevin said he ran into

01:04:09.539 --> 01:04:12.079
when he was trying to do like the remote recording

01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:17.000
was that like Without any kind of feedback, like

01:04:17.000 --> 01:04:19.639
you just start going down like a rabbit hole

01:04:19.639 --> 01:04:23.380
before anybody can pull you out of it. Yeah,

01:04:23.380 --> 01:04:26.820
yeah. And it sounds like this is almost like

01:04:26.820 --> 01:04:30.500
the opposite of that. The mindset that's really

01:04:30.500 --> 01:04:32.780
been important for me to develop is the ability

01:04:32.780 --> 01:04:35.559
to, I can go down a rabbit hole, but the reason

01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:39.239
that a project gets done is when you learn to

01:04:39.239 --> 01:04:42.530
discern what's important and what's not. Otherwise,

01:04:42.590 --> 01:04:44.449
you can spend forever and never get anything

01:04:44.449 --> 01:04:47.429
accomplished. So when do you know when a song's

01:04:47.429 --> 01:04:49.849
done? I don't know. I've written a song in an

01:04:49.849 --> 01:04:51.469
hour. I've written a song that I've never finished

01:04:51.469 --> 01:04:54.809
writing since I started. I rewrote I've Had Enough.

01:04:56.250 --> 01:05:00.550
Did you? I'm still rewriting it. Fuck yeah. Fuck

01:05:00.550 --> 01:05:04.130
yeah. I'm 53. I wrote that song when I was 11.

01:05:04.349 --> 01:05:07.170
Tell them, Steve Dave. So the important thing

01:05:07.170 --> 01:05:09.309
is to be able to zoom in and zoom out and be

01:05:09.309 --> 01:05:12.119
like, okay. This is as good as it needs to be.

01:05:12.460 --> 01:05:15.380
Nothing is ever perfect. Maybe you can get a

01:05:15.380 --> 01:05:18.300
perfect song. Good for you. Fucking congratulations.

01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:21.760
But there's a tolerance, there's a percentage

01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:26.219
level where it's as good as it needs to be. Sometimes

01:05:26.219 --> 01:05:29.000
an artist, it's like they don't realize it's

01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:31.079
done and then they spend too much time on it.

01:05:31.260 --> 01:05:36.280
And being able to let go of something, like a

01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:38.590
balloon. there are records that might be a little

01:05:38.590 --> 01:05:40.809
bit better if somebody had just not thought of

01:05:40.809 --> 01:05:42.750
three more things that they thought had to go

01:05:42.750 --> 01:05:46.909
on it exactly what do you have going on coming

01:05:46.909 --> 01:05:48.670
up that you is there anything you want to talk

01:05:48.670 --> 01:05:50.769
about and promote is there anything you yeah

01:05:50.769 --> 01:05:53.650
yeah the shut ups have a new record coming out

01:05:53.650 --> 01:05:56.110
in a month yeah i'm excited it is i love that

01:05:56.110 --> 01:05:58.829
new song oh cool thank you it rocks man it's

01:05:58.829 --> 01:06:01.690
a crazy record it's it's called proverbs it is

01:06:01.690 --> 01:06:06.639
two cds it is 27 songs or something like that.

01:06:06.780 --> 01:06:10.320
And it's quite long and quite comprehensive and

01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.260
really good all the way through. PRS is writing

01:06:13.260 --> 01:06:17.119
right now. I'm working on the Olivia Tremor Controls

01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:21.219
third and final record. And those are the main

01:06:21.219 --> 01:06:23.260
things. I'm going to be starting a new record

01:06:23.260 --> 01:06:25.500
with Vic Varney. He's being very patient with

01:06:25.500 --> 01:06:28.420
me right now. What else am I forgetting? I'm

01:06:28.420 --> 01:06:31.050
doing a lot of stuff with Henry Owings. having

01:06:31.050 --> 01:06:32.909
to do with Barbecue Killers and Limbo District

01:06:32.909 --> 01:06:37.110
and a lot of more historical kind of Athens and

01:06:37.110 --> 01:06:40.150
Atlanta musics. So a lot of exciting stuff going

01:06:40.150 --> 01:06:43.809
on. Do you consider yourself a preservationist

01:06:43.809 --> 01:06:46.030
when it comes to music sometimes? Untrained,

01:06:46.050 --> 01:06:50.550
but yes. I can feel it. I feel like we're the

01:06:50.550 --> 01:06:53.309
same way in that respect. You're like, oh, these

01:06:53.309 --> 01:06:55.429
bands never put out records. I was like, I still

01:06:55.429 --> 01:06:57.730
think it's important for you to tell people what...

01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:59.860
they were called you know what i mean that's

01:06:59.860 --> 01:07:03.119
very i see that i get it yeah yeah now i was

01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:06.119
always the guy that like okay so chris and i

01:07:06.119 --> 01:07:08.679
started working together as kids and he's written

01:07:08.679 --> 01:07:10.639
a ton of songs i haven't written quite as many

01:07:10.639 --> 01:07:13.980
he has no interest in learning how to record

01:07:13.980 --> 01:07:19.460
i do so i've got the equipment now i'm keeping

01:07:19.460 --> 01:07:22.800
the tapes and this just started a way of life

01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:27.699
yeah yeah so yeah preserve the audio organize

01:07:27.699 --> 01:07:29.960
the audio be able to find the audio when you

01:07:29.960 --> 01:07:32.980
need it again don't crash your hard drives etc

01:07:32.980 --> 01:07:36.679
etc back everything up back everything up three

01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:41.139
two one yeah and that's so yeah i'm trained in

01:07:41.139 --> 01:07:44.079
that way and i and because i get because of the

01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:46.480
pylon box set because everything henry's given

01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:52.059
me i've had to i've had to develop ways to organize

01:07:52.059 --> 01:07:55.840
my work You create your own systems. Yes, exactly.

01:07:56.219 --> 01:07:59.139
And I'm sure that they're not as good as they

01:07:59.139 --> 01:08:02.199
could be. But they work for you. They're yours.

01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:06.159
Yeah. I think there's a lot to be said for that

01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:10.699
because you know who Hank Green is? I don't know

01:08:10.699 --> 01:08:13.800
how to... He's done so many different things.

01:08:13.860 --> 01:08:17.060
He's all over the place. I'll hear about him

01:08:17.060 --> 01:08:22.220
as soon as I leave. Oh, yeah. That guy. He just...

01:08:22.890 --> 01:08:25.890
He just put out a video the other day that was

01:08:25.890 --> 01:08:27.930
really inspiring to me. He's like, I don't really

01:08:27.930 --> 01:08:32.729
have goals. I just have my tool set, but the

01:08:32.729 --> 01:08:36.010
most important part of that tool set is me. And

01:08:36.010 --> 01:08:40.970
so your systems being for you, I think is, that's

01:08:40.970 --> 01:08:43.390
the beauty of doing something for yourself instead

01:08:43.390 --> 01:08:47.029
of working like a nine to five and being a, like

01:08:47.029 --> 01:08:50.949
being a. a wage slave or whatever the fuck where

01:08:50.949 --> 01:08:55.829
you're not getting to build systems no matter

01:08:55.829 --> 01:08:58.890
what they're for in a way that works for you

01:08:58.890 --> 01:09:02.989
yeah it's a weird world because while i might

01:09:02.989 --> 01:09:06.090
paint myself as the response the more responsible

01:09:06.090 --> 01:09:08.689
party in some situations where i'm the archivist

01:09:08.689 --> 01:09:11.050
and i'm recording the songs or whatever because

01:09:11.050 --> 01:09:15.050
that's unpaid i have to admit that like i am

01:09:15.050 --> 01:09:19.970
more than fortunate i'm i don't know the luckiest

01:09:19.970 --> 01:09:22.989
son of a bitch on the planet that i am married

01:09:22.989 --> 01:09:25.890
to somebody who loves me enough to be a wage

01:09:25.890 --> 01:09:27.909
slave now she likes her job and everything but

01:09:27.909 --> 01:09:31.149
she's got to do this thing every day until she

01:09:31.149 --> 01:09:35.149
can retire so that we can have health care so

01:09:35.149 --> 01:09:37.390
that we can have a roof over our heads yeah and

01:09:37.390 --> 01:09:41.189
that's no it's no fun she wants to be it she's

01:09:41.189 --> 01:09:44.149
an artist too and i don't take it for granted

01:09:44.149 --> 01:09:48.670
for a moment but in every if you look at Every

01:09:48.670 --> 01:09:51.909
failed great artist, failed in terms of like

01:09:51.909 --> 01:09:54.909
numbers, sales numbers or whatever. Sure, sure.

01:09:54.989 --> 01:09:57.789
If you want to use that as a metric. Yeah. If

01:09:57.789 --> 01:10:00.829
you could avoid drug and alcohol abuse, keep

01:10:00.829 --> 01:10:04.609
yourself out of the gutter and still not manage

01:10:04.609 --> 01:10:07.189
to sell enough records to buy your mom a house

01:10:07.189 --> 01:10:09.890
or whatever, then you probably have somebody

01:10:09.890 --> 01:10:11.869
in your life that's helping you get through.

01:10:12.310 --> 01:10:16.970
Yeah. And at great expense to them. Well, shout

01:10:16.970 --> 01:10:21.170
out to Kay. Absolutely. She still kicks ass on

01:10:21.170 --> 01:10:24.270
stage and writes and does everything that I do.

01:10:24.449 --> 01:10:26.229
I would love to talk to her next time I'm in

01:10:26.229 --> 01:10:30.149
town. Let's set that up. Yeah, let's do it. Hey,

01:10:30.270 --> 01:10:33.109
I feel like we could talk for another hour. Yeah,

01:10:33.210 --> 01:10:34.890
there's a lot of people I meant to mention. Gregory

01:10:34.890 --> 01:10:38.590
Sanders, for instance. But yeah, thank you so

01:10:38.590 --> 01:10:39.890
much for giving me your time. Yeah, this has

01:10:39.890 --> 01:10:43.500
been great. We'll have it up in the next few

01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:47.319
weeks. Anything you want linked in terms of promo

01:10:47.319 --> 01:10:49.039
that you didn't already mention, anything you

01:10:49.039 --> 01:10:50.899
mentioned, I'll put links in the description.

01:10:51.220 --> 01:10:53.079
But if you think of anything else, just let me

01:10:53.079 --> 01:10:56.199
know. You've got a couple of weeks before it

01:10:56.199 --> 01:10:59.560
comes out. All right. I have one in the can before

01:10:59.560 --> 01:11:02.699
leaving town, so whatever I record here is at

01:11:02.699 --> 01:11:06.039
least 10 days out. That's still pretty quick.

01:11:06.699 --> 01:11:09.939
I try. I'm a one -man operation, so if I sit

01:11:09.939 --> 01:11:14.170
on it too long, it... I literally, from booking

01:11:14.170 --> 01:11:20.109
to marketing, I do every step of the way. I do

01:11:20.109 --> 01:11:24.609
a little bit of AI for transcripts and shit like

01:11:24.609 --> 01:11:28.310
that, right? Like the stuff that I think is okay

01:11:28.310 --> 01:11:31.090
to use. Like the stuff that nobody wants to do.

01:11:31.789 --> 01:11:33.770
This is the last thing I'll say before we wrap.

01:11:34.250 --> 01:11:37.390
Why the fuck is AI making art instead of doing

01:11:37.390 --> 01:11:41.329
our laundry? For real, man. There are good ways.

01:11:41.449 --> 01:11:44.270
I have worked on a couple of AI records for a

01:11:44.270 --> 01:11:47.130
friend of mine. Yeah, yeah. That are great records.

01:11:47.710 --> 01:11:53.069
Cool. I'm not anti anything universally. That's

01:11:53.069 --> 01:11:55.329
stupid. Right, but I know I've got other friends

01:11:55.329 --> 01:11:59.149
who are just as close who fucking hate anything

01:11:59.149 --> 01:12:03.050
to do with AI. So we're in this weird tender

01:12:03.050 --> 01:12:06.270
moment right now. Yeah, it is. I don't think

01:12:06.270 --> 01:12:10.279
I land either side of that. I needed some way

01:12:10.279 --> 01:12:14.220
to help me manage projects, manage my time. Jason

01:12:14.220 --> 01:12:18.239
Neesmith, this has been awesome. Much obliged.

01:12:18.340 --> 01:12:21.439
Thank you very much. Thank you. That was my interview

01:12:21.439 --> 01:12:24.060
with Jason Neesmith. I had a great time talking

01:12:24.060 --> 01:12:28.119
to him. What a really smart dude. I feel like

01:12:28.119 --> 01:12:31.420
we could have talked for hours and hours. I feel

01:12:31.420 --> 01:12:33.560
like that was just the tip of the iceberg of

01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:36.300
his knowledge. I feel that way with everybody

01:12:36.300 --> 01:12:39.119
I sit down on. this show with, to be honest with

01:12:39.119 --> 01:12:43.420
you. I've been very fortunate to be given the

01:12:43.420 --> 01:12:48.279
time with some of these people and with all of

01:12:48.279 --> 01:12:51.539
these people. And I just want to express my gratitude

01:12:51.539 --> 01:12:54.920
to everybody that's been on this show so far

01:12:54.920 --> 01:12:58.079
and that has agreed to do it already too for

01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:01.399
future episodes. Next week, we're going over,

01:13:01.460 --> 01:13:02.800
we're going to do something a little different.

01:13:02.840 --> 01:13:05.000
We're going over to the Suwannee Kids Music Camp.

01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:07.520
And I'm going to find out a little bit about

01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:10.520
the history of it, how it's operated. The Suwannee

01:13:10.520 --> 01:13:13.199
Kids Music Camp is held at the Spirit of the

01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:16.020
Suwannee Music Park, which is where the Allman

01:13:16.020 --> 01:13:17.699
Brothers held their fest for years and years.

01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:22.899
It's where a lot of music festivals happen. And

01:13:22.899 --> 01:13:26.079
the Kids Music Camp was always part of the plan.

01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:28.699
So I sat down with a few of the teachers, a few

01:13:28.699 --> 01:13:32.560
of the organizers, and had a really... great

01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:34.819
time out there it's something that i took my

01:13:34.819 --> 01:13:38.420
daughter to when she was a kid anyway so look

01:13:38.420 --> 01:13:40.680
forward to that thanks for tuning in this week

01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:45.079
make sure you check out the shut ups at record

01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:51.760
proverbs also the arcs album athens avenue just

01:13:51.760 --> 01:13:53.779
came out yesterday so check that out as well

01:13:53.779 --> 01:13:57.800
make sure to go pre -order that decoration day

01:13:57.800 --> 01:14:00.340
box set because it looks sweet as hell. What

01:14:00.340 --> 01:14:03.359
I've heard sounds great. And after talking to

01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:08.119
him, I trust that he did a great job. He's just,

01:14:08.180 --> 01:14:13.159
he's brilliant. Anyway, thanks for tuning in,

01:14:13.199 --> 01:14:15.539
y 'all. This is Overeducated and Underemployed.

01:14:15.800 --> 01:14:18.199
Click that like and subscribe and all that jazz.

01:14:19.100 --> 01:14:20.500
Take us out of here, Sloan.