WEBVTT

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Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed. I've

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got a really exciting episode for you today.

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These interviews coming up the next few weeks

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weren't exactly what I had planned the last time

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I went to Athens. But I gotta say the timing

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turned out better than I had planned. Talking

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today to a man named Ben Spraker. Ben Spraker

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is in a band called The Shut Ups, who have an

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album coming out this week. And The Arcs, who

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have an album coming out next week. Next week,

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I'll be talking to Kevin Lane from The Arcs and

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a bunch of other bands, and we'll get into that.

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And the week after that, I'll be talking to Jason

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Neesmith, who is also in The Shut Ups and a bunch

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of other bands, including Casper and the Cookies.

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So this was a really, uh, amazing little set

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of interviews. I am going to give them to you

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out of order just a little bit here in which

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I recorded them because, uh, the shutups got

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their album coming out this week and the arcs

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got their album coming out next week. So I'm

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going to give you, uh, Ben, who's a member of

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both first, then we'll get into Kevin Lane next

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week. Who's with the arcs. And then Jason Neesmith

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and I talk a lot about recording, engineering,

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mastering, and nerd out on that sort of thing

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for a while. So check that out in a couple weeks.

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But he's also in a band called The Shut Ups.

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I just listened to their new album, Proverbs.

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It fucking rules. It's going to be out this week

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on Attaboy Tapes. The release party is at Cine

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on Saturday. If you're in the Athens area, I

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encourage you to check it out. There's links

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to all the things in the description of this

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episode. Ben and I had a great conversation.

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You will notice the recording quality gets a

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good bit better audio -wise about 10 minutes

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in, maybe 11 minutes in. Had a slight audio issue

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at the beginning of the episode. Without further

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ado, here is my interview with Ben Spraker. This

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is Overeducated and Underemployed. I'm here with

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Ben Spraker. And the release is, what, September

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6th? December 6th, yeah. And where are y 'all

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doing the party? The album release party is at

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Cine on September 6th. I love Cine. Yeah, it's

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a great venue. It's a great little spot. They've

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really upped their game over there. I haven't

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seen a live show there in a while. It's great.

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It's just a killer -sounding room. It's still

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that room off to... the right when yeah the lab

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that's right next to the theater yeah i've seen

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jay gonzalez playing there before and they may

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have upgraded by them but a wonderful band yeah

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it was just him yeah it's a really high ceiling

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and if you if the band is at the right volume

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level then it really just comes alive and isn't

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too it's one of those things where it can be

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racquetball cordy if you're too loud but You

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can definitely make it work in there. When it

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does work, it works real well. Nice. Yeah. Maybe

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I'll have to come back up. Yeah, you might as

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well. I'm starting to look at just like renting

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a room in somebody's house instead of getting

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a hotel every time. Because even if by the time

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you stay like four nights, you might as well

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almost rent a room somewhere. And then I can

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come up whenever I want. Athens, Georgia, the

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fucking rules. That's part of why I do so many

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of my interviews here. But I'm going to ask you

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the first question that I ask everybody, and

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then we can just dive into it from there. All

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right. What's the first song that you remember

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loving as a kid? The first song that I bought

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with my own money was Life's Been Good to Me

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So Far by Joe Walsh. And it was when department

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stores still sold 45s. Oh, nice. Department store.

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Yeah, I'm just old enough. It's called Hills.

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I don't know if it was a Virginia thing. I grew

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up in Roanoke, Virginia. There's some pretty

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serious flooding going on there right now. Maybe

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they dodged it, but I think they were worried

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about it with that storm. I haven't been hearing

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about it, anybody I know. Maybe not. Maybe I'll

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just pretend I never said that. Yeah, I'll have

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to look into that. Yeah. So I heard that song

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on the radio. I was being taken to either t -ball

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or soccer practice, and my friend's mom was in

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the front seat, and my friend's older sister

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was in the passenger seat, and she was singing

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along to Life's Been Good to Me So Far by Joe

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Walsh on the radio, and it made me think, this

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must be really cool. This is something I'm supposed

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to like. I ended up going to the store and buying

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it, and I loved that song. The guitar riff is

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always right under the fingers. It's always fun

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to just play when you're warming up. How old

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were you? Oh, man, I was probably, jeez, I couldn't

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have been more than seven, eight or something.

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Oh, wow. Yeah. Wild, wild. Were you interested

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in making music right away, or were you really

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just a fan? No, but I remember... Kiss, we were

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really into Kiss, and so we would jump around

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with the tennis rackets, and we would just mess

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around with guitars, but I wasn't initially into

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playing seriously. Did you play a lot of sports

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as a kid? Is that the third sport you've mentioned?

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Yeah, I know. I tried. I was not a natural at

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sports. That sounds like me and music. Nothing.

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I tell this joke that all comedians want to be

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rock stars. I am. And that most rock stars wish

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they were comedians. Yeah, it's always fun to

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think about trying to do that. How many jokes

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are in five minutes? Like these open mics that

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comedians do, it's five minutes. It's like, how

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many jokes is that? Five minutes can be a long

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time. Oh, yeah. You're bombing. Yeah, I have.

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Every while I'd collect some jokes just in case

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I have the nerve to try that one day. You at

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least have to have onstage banter sometimes.

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Yeah, yeah, there is that. There is that, too.

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But, yeah, I didn't... It was... I was in school

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band playing the trumpet, and that sort of unlocked

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my brain with how music works. Middle school

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or high school? Middle school. And then I got

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into the guitar, and... that pretty much left

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the trumpet behind and so i was pretty obsessed

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with guitar through from age 13 just on um yes

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and that's still what you primarily yeah yeah

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i am a i am an athens georgia based guitarist

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singer and songwriter when did you move here

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1990 to go to college I ended up living here.

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My brother ended up living in his college town,

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too. He moved to Radford, Virginia. That's what

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happened to my parents, too. I'm from Tallahassee,

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so, yeah, they went to Florida State, and they

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were like, yeah. But, and same with me, except

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I'm trying to get out. I bought a house in 2019,

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and that was a great time to buy a house, but

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not in a city you didn't want to stay in. Yeah.

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Is this Atlanta where you live? No, Tallahassee.

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You live in Tallahassee now? Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

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I was born there, never left. My kid turned 18

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this year. Oh, my God. Wow. I'm 39, so I was

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a young dad. Now I'm getting to do all the things

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that a lot of people do when they're stupid in

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their 20s, but I'm doing it with a little bit

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more discipline, wisdom, and that kind of thing.

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Right on. But I still feel young enough to do

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it. Nothing terrifies me more than the idea of

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being a really old parent. Yeah, just being really

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old is terrifying enough. Yeah, there's a Steve

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Earle quote that I love. It's almost more weird

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now that his son is gone, but if I'd have known

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I was going to live this long, I'd have taken

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better care of myself. That's a good one. When

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did you start writing songs? Oh, yeah. So I started

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writing songs. As soon as I could play things,

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I would make up riffs. And that was, to me, that

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was what a song, all songs, that was a cool guitar

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riff. And I would think, somebody else will figure

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out what to sing over it. I identified as a guitarist

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before I thought of myself as somebody that could

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sing and write songs. And so I was probably...

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around 20 or so when I started writing when basically

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it was we our band didn't have a singer anymore

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and it was time for someone to sing and I just

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started doing it and that's just how it started

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it was my first band in Athens it was a band

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called Ancient Otis when I got all my friends

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from Roanoke to move here and then a couple of

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those guys moved back to Roanoke and Then Ceiling

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Fan, and that's the band that most people know

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me from, from the mid -90s into the early 2000s.

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We were a three -piece band where I sang and

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played guitar, and my childhood friend from Roanoke,

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Virginia, Dave Giroux, played drums, and Jess

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Robbins was the bass player. Hell yeah. And Dave

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Giroux and I are in the Arcs. And that's the

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Athens, Georgia, The Arcs. And I talked to Kevin

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earlier that day. Yeah, I actually was also listening

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to them the other night with Sloan. Those first

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three tracks, we went out to dinner and at least

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two or three of them popped up. Cool. I think

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two, maybe the third played on the way back.

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But anyway, super excited for that record. Yeah,

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it's a weird, when it rains, it pours thing.

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Two of my bands I play in are both putting out

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records at the same time. So it's, hey, listen

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to the show. Listen to the arcs. Well, I knew

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y 'all had all worked together, but I don't think

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it's been today as I've sat down and talked to

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all three of y 'all that I've realized how connected.

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So it's actually a really cool little arc of

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episodes, too. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, yeah.

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Did you ever struggle with... putting your music,

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like when you started writing songs, did you

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find it hard to share them with people? No, it's

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just funny, like depending on what musicians

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you're playing with, your writing technique would

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change, or would for me. I would, okay, I would

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sometimes, with some musicians, you would play

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your part. and then let the other musicians just

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improvise their part and say, oh, what was that?

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And then you make the song out of that. And then

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you find yourself with other musicians that don't

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like to do that. They want you to provide them

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a demo, like a recording of just the basics,

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and then they come with their part. Or they would

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rather just you tell them what the part should

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be. So it's... But no, I've never had trouble

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feeling weird about... providing musical ideas

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to people. It's just interesting how different

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musicians just have a different way of wanting

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to collaborate, to work on songs. Yeah. I was

00:12:58.049 --> 00:13:01.470
just talking about that with, with Jason and

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like the difference between the way, like his,

00:13:05.350 --> 00:13:09.549
like the Casper bands, all the same band, but

00:13:09.549 --> 00:13:12.529
different names. Yeah. And then versus how like

00:13:12.529 --> 00:13:16.240
Pylon Reenactment Society is like, much more

00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:19.600
like democratic thing yeah and is like adjusting

00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:21.899
between those like different dynamics is that

00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:25.059
something that you find difficult difficult now

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but i remember being disoriented by it because

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when you first start working with musicians on

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songs you just get this you think that this is

00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.440
the way musicians are you think you know right

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and then you realize that no not everybody likes

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to do it that way yeah that's just one of the

00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.220
ways yeah yeah but yeah How did that help inform

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how you changed? Because it's like if you just

00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:52.080
thought that's how musicians were, then you didn't

00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.019
know that you could be any different. Yeah, it

00:13:54.019 --> 00:13:56.500
made you like if you are working with people

00:13:56.500 --> 00:14:00.059
that would rather have a recorded demo to learn

00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:03.659
a song from before you get together to play it,

00:14:03.740 --> 00:14:07.340
then you learn how to make demos. Yeah, yeah.

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Because even though the demo doesn't have to

00:14:10.179 --> 00:14:14.220
be anything great, just give me the idea. Selling

00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:17.500
the song to the, you got to make the demo good

00:14:17.500 --> 00:14:20.779
so that, so that the people who hear it go, that

00:14:20.779 --> 00:14:24.639
sounds worth our time to pursue. So it's, no

00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:27.259
one wants to admit that the quality of the demo

00:14:27.259 --> 00:14:30.259
is important, but it is. You're trying to get

00:14:30.259 --> 00:14:33.419
people excited about this musical idea you have.

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And even if it's not a complete song, if you

00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:42.000
only have one verse and the chorus idea. And

00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:44.059
so you're just repeating that to get the proof

00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:46.139
of concept. You want the guitar to sound really

00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:49.679
cool. You want to sing it well. You don't want

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to half -ass the demo because nobody wants to

00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.279
admit it. You are trying to get people excited

00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.039
about working on the song that you're trying

00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:06.980
to present to the band. For sure. Yeah, it helps

00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:08.799
to be able to work in a lot of different ways.

00:15:12.310 --> 00:15:15.509
improvising the parts and then writing the song

00:15:15.509 --> 00:15:17.269
based on something that you've improvised. That's

00:15:17.269 --> 00:15:21.350
a fun way to do it that I haven't worked that

00:15:21.350 --> 00:15:26.070
way in a while. And I'm hoping I can break back

00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:31.169
into a situation where that's the case. Yeah.

00:15:31.289 --> 00:15:35.149
But yeah, ultimately, you're just happy about

00:15:35.149 --> 00:15:39.450
who you're playing music with. Yeah. And you

00:15:39.450 --> 00:15:42.460
just want to... adapt to what works well for

00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:49.820
them so that's it's fine yeah so you grew up

00:15:49.820 --> 00:15:53.460
in Roanoke uh and then like your whole childhood

00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:55.860
and then you just moved here for college yeah

00:15:55.860 --> 00:16:00.879
I moved here to go to UGA and and and did you

00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.559
graduate yeah I mean I feel like that's a legit

00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.440
a lot of people especially if you figure out

00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.179
what you're supposed to be doing while in college

00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:10.519
You're like, why am I doing this? Yeah, exactly.

00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:16.460
I got the standard four -year degree. But I've

00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:21.019
been just playing bands the whole time, and I

00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:24.440
just love everything about being in a band. Yeah.

00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:27.220
Yeah. It's just my favorite way to hang out with

00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:30.480
people. It's, hey, let's get together, and I'll

00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.899
put our problem -solving hats on and figure out

00:16:32.899 --> 00:16:37.419
how to make this thing good enough to put in

00:16:37.419 --> 00:16:39.899
front of people. And then we're going to schedule

00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:42.279
a time when we're going to do that. And we're

00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:43.860
going to put it in front of people. Yeah. We

00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:47.299
think it's good. And it's just a great way to

00:16:47.299 --> 00:16:50.919
hang out with people. I agree. I don't think

00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:54.620
that there's a world I belong in better than...

00:16:54.620 --> 00:17:00.100
My first job was at a venue that was getting

00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:02.460
pretty big touring acts. I was just like a loader

00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:06.730
and like a flyer guy. And I was like 15. And

00:17:06.730 --> 00:17:08.569
they would send me to competitors' parking lots.

00:17:09.349 --> 00:17:11.849
And I always just knew this is the world I belong.

00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:15.750
I started going on the road with bands and shit

00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:20.130
that when I was like too young to be doing that.

00:17:21.009 --> 00:17:23.890
But I guess my point is I get exactly what you

00:17:23.890 --> 00:17:26.569
mean. Being part of that, being any part of that

00:17:26.569 --> 00:17:31.410
is so exciting. Yeah, it's really cool. And I

00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:34.250
think it's something that like... comedians and

00:17:34.250 --> 00:17:37.109
musicians have in common too because it's it's

00:17:37.109 --> 00:17:38.950
a more collaborative a lot of the time with musicians

00:17:38.950 --> 00:17:41.589
and I think and I've talked about this before

00:17:41.589 --> 00:17:45.269
where like the response is a lot more important

00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:48.930
with comedy whereas you can have a good show

00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:51.809
with three other people in the room watching

00:17:51.809 --> 00:17:54.210
you if you guys feel like you put on a good show

00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:56.849
yeah yeah it's really hard to feel like you put

00:17:56.849 --> 00:17:59.650
on a good show as a comedian with five people

00:17:59.650 --> 00:18:02.880
in the room or whatever yeah But I think leading

00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:06.180
up to the show is very similar. Yeah. You're

00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:09.980
refining this thing. Yeah. Your goal is just

00:18:09.980 --> 00:18:13.380
to make people have a good night. Yeah. Have

00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:16.480
fun. Yeah. Maybe with their families or not or

00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.460
their whatever. Provide a place for people to

00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:23.819
escape from all the bullshit. Yes. And I don't

00:18:23.819 --> 00:18:25.839
know if you're like me, but to me, when you're

00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.220
working on the escape, it almost feels like you

00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:32.660
cheated the system. It's like you're getting

00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:37.839
away with not working. Yeah, I agree. It is work,

00:18:37.940 --> 00:18:40.819
but it doesn't feel that way. It just feels like

00:18:40.819 --> 00:18:43.000
I've been doing it long enough that it just feels

00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:47.900
like a natural thing that I do. Yeah, yeah. When

00:18:47.900 --> 00:18:52.599
did you realize that being in a band was what

00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:57.299
you wanted to be doing? I was in middle school,

00:18:57.339 --> 00:18:59.420
and I'd been playing guitar for a couple years.

00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:04.440
And there was a kid down the street who played

00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:07.460
bass and we would just play along the Iron Maiden

00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:13.119
songs. And that was good fun and all, but I'd

00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.980
never played with a drummer before. And I went

00:19:15.980 --> 00:19:18.019
down the street and that kid's older brother

00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:22.400
had a band with an actual drummer. Had you played

00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.160
with a click? No, no, this was just, not really,

00:19:26.259 --> 00:19:29.559
just the recordings. Yeah. It wasn't an easy

00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.609
thing. I guess I had... That's like a different

00:19:32.609 --> 00:19:35.190
thing. Yeah, yeah. Like once you play with a

00:19:35.190 --> 00:19:38.509
drummer. Yeah, but I'll tell you, it's... When

00:19:38.509 --> 00:19:43.569
I... It was... I went over to this guy's house

00:19:43.569 --> 00:19:46.250
and they were playing and I got to put on the

00:19:46.250 --> 00:19:48.710
guitar and the drummer started playing a beat

00:19:48.710 --> 00:19:50.730
and I started hitting the strings and that's

00:19:50.730 --> 00:19:55.450
when it was like... I felt like Richard Dreyfuss

00:19:55.450 --> 00:19:57.369
in Close Encounters of the Third Kind starting

00:19:57.369 --> 00:20:01.819
to chase the... The Plateau. Man, that's crazy.

00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.539
I literally talked about that movie like last

00:20:04.539 --> 00:20:09.160
week. Because I think that movie is about, it's

00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:14.119
not about aliens. It's about a religious calling.

00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.420
It's what I would imagine when somebody, like

00:20:17.420 --> 00:20:20.920
when Moses, you know, I'm not trying to talk

00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.500
literalism or not or anything. I'm just talking

00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:27.099
when Moses is compelled to go to the mountain.

00:20:28.430 --> 00:20:30.849
That's what is going on to all these people in

00:20:30.849 --> 00:20:33.450
close and kind of like they he just abandons

00:20:33.450 --> 00:20:37.190
his family. Yeah, I guess so right now but just

00:20:37.190 --> 00:20:40.750
the moment of the whole the bass line for me

00:20:40.750 --> 00:20:44.230
is Hit the guitar strings with drop someone hitting

00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:46.490
the drum to the same time and just that simple

00:20:46.490 --> 00:20:51.069
thing just that bass line Just became that's

00:20:51.069 --> 00:20:54.009
all I wanted to do and it's and I'm always trying

00:20:54.009 --> 00:20:58.660
to come to the perfect moment of hit the guitar

00:20:58.660 --> 00:21:01.980
string with the drum set. Fuck yeah. And then

00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:04.180
that's all it is. And then so the singing and

00:21:04.180 --> 00:21:06.079
the songwriting and all the other stuff, that's

00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.279
all great, but it really just comes down to this

00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:13.980
primal need to play the electric guitar and hear

00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:18.019
the snare and the bass drum. It's that. That

00:21:18.019 --> 00:21:20.180
is not what I thought you were going to say when

00:21:20.180 --> 00:21:22.160
you said that you had never played with a drummer

00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.079
before. I think a lot of guitarists, the first

00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:26.740
time they play to a click or with a drummer,

00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.980
they realize that they're not maybe as good as

00:21:29.980 --> 00:21:32.460
they thought they were at that point. But for

00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:34.559
you, you're like, no, this is where I belong.

00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.640
That moment was like, I'm in. I went into it

00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:39.819
before that, but that was when it went to that

00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:42.740
Richard Dreyfuss level from Close Encounters

00:21:42.740 --> 00:21:46.420
of the Third Kind. That's such a perfect analogy.

00:21:47.390 --> 00:21:53.869
it really is i think thanks that feeling of being

00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:57.210
drawn to something that you first of all i think

00:21:57.210 --> 00:21:59.230
you're pretty lucky to figure out what that was

00:21:59.230 --> 00:22:01.609
at that age right there's a lot of people that

00:22:01.609 --> 00:22:05.990
like dude i didn't figure out i for a long time

00:22:05.990 --> 00:22:09.150
i was like i should be a musician or but i can't

00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:11.450
i'm not like i can sing it i sing in a choir

00:22:11.450 --> 00:22:14.490
okay but that's like a community choir but that's

00:22:14.490 --> 00:22:17.200
like about it I can read some music, but I'm

00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:21.460
not a musician. But I wanted to be so bad. But

00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:25.059
it wasn't until three or four years ago that

00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:31.119
I realized what my medium or whatever it is was.

00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.279
Whatever you want to call it. Plenty of time.

00:22:33.940 --> 00:22:37.980
Sure, but I guess my point is I'm getting to

00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:41.660
something where I feel like if that stuff is

00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:43.920
in you and you don't have an outlet for it, it

00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.079
starts to... show up in other ways. Did you experience

00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.619
that before? You know what I'm talking about,

00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:54.160
right? There was this almost like a darkness

00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.960
or like a fire. There was nothing I was that

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.859
obsessed with. I got into things and I tried

00:22:59.859 --> 00:23:02.180
to play sports and I tried to play, ride a skateboard

00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:05.579
and I tried to, and then the school band was

00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:10.619
fun. I liked that, but I knew. I felt like I

00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:13.400
had some kind of a good ear for music at that

00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:19.519
point, but just the whole playing electric guitar

00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.519
with someone on the drum set, that became just,

00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:27.980
there was nothing that I was more obsessed about

00:23:27.980 --> 00:23:30.400
before that. So that was definitely just like,

00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:32.759
all I want to do, it's all I'm thinking about.

00:23:33.619 --> 00:23:38.410
And that's just still what drives me. If I have

00:23:38.410 --> 00:23:40.849
a band practice or something coming up and it

00:23:40.849 --> 00:23:43.170
becomes a thing where it's like, oh, the drummer

00:23:43.170 --> 00:23:47.009
can't make it. I'm way less interested, even

00:23:47.009 --> 00:23:50.990
though I'll still do it. It's definitely not

00:23:50.990 --> 00:23:55.569
as fun for me to play without the drums. So do

00:23:55.569 --> 00:23:58.410
you play solo much? Not too much. I've only done

00:23:58.410 --> 00:24:03.170
it a few times. I feel like I probably would

00:24:03.170 --> 00:24:05.750
be good to do it more. It would probably make

00:24:05.750 --> 00:24:07.960
me a... better player if i did it a lot more

00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.359
thing that's interesting about playing solo is

00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:15.859
that you you you get to make the arrangement

00:24:15.859 --> 00:24:19.000
what you want it to be on the fly you can just

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:24.819
decide in the moment this chorus goes on another

00:24:24.819 --> 00:24:28.359
time through or you can just or you go to the

00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:30.839
wrong chord and you just stay on the wrong chord

00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.059
and so this is how it goes now and you can just

00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:36.759
you can will it into existence because you don't

00:24:36.759 --> 00:24:40.039
have anyone else to... No one else has to be

00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:45.460
playing, so you really can just decide. That

00:24:45.460 --> 00:24:48.180
initially was considered wrong, but it's right

00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:51.920
now. That really reminds me of the difference

00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:55.420
between doing stand -up and doing improv comedy.

00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.099
Yeah, yeah. Because, yeah, if I'm just up there,

00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:01.240
I could just decide I don't want to do any of

00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:05.519
the jokes on my list. I'm not a crowd work guy,

00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:07.980
but if I wanted to be, I could just do that and

00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:10.480
that would be my whole night. That's a beautiful

00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:14.819
thing. And similarly, you can rearrange your

00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:20.859
songs on the fly. With a band? Yeah, certain

00:25:20.859 --> 00:25:24.059
bands. You're really on top of listening very

00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:29.299
well, but you can't quite... You can really have

00:25:29.299 --> 00:25:31.279
the flexibility when you play solo, and that's

00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.319
a cool thing, but I don't do it very often. I

00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:35.259
just usually prefer to play music with other

00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:37.299
people and play with a band is normally what

00:25:37.299 --> 00:25:40.859
I do. What about when you're writing? Do you

00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:43.440
write by yourself? I do write by myself a lot,

00:25:43.460 --> 00:25:46.140
and a lot of it is because most other musicians

00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:50.900
don't like writing along with people. I find

00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:54.839
I'm always about, I'm into the idea of writing

00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:58.630
as a... collaboration more, but it just seems

00:25:58.630 --> 00:26:02.289
like most of the people I play music with, it

00:26:02.289 --> 00:26:04.470
just works better if I come up with the idea

00:26:04.470 --> 00:26:08.730
and then bring it to them. And then they add

00:26:08.730 --> 00:26:10.789
their part or I have a part in mind that I give

00:26:10.789 --> 00:26:13.789
them. It depends on the particular band. With

00:26:13.789 --> 00:26:16.970
the Arcs, I write half the songs. Kevin writes

00:26:16.970 --> 00:26:21.150
the other half of the songs. And I sing the songs

00:26:21.150 --> 00:26:23.430
I write and he sings the songs he writes. And

00:26:23.430 --> 00:26:26.569
you also... decide how the songs you write are

00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:29.150
going to be too, right? Like it's a little bit

00:26:29.150 --> 00:26:33.250
different than if kind of everybody collaborates

00:26:33.250 --> 00:26:35.490
on your song. That's not how it really goes.

00:26:35.509 --> 00:26:40.509
Once we get it into the band context, there'll

00:26:40.509 --> 00:26:45.890
be ideas thrown around about maybe we go to the

00:26:45.890 --> 00:26:49.410
bridge a second time or maybe there's arrangement

00:26:49.410 --> 00:26:53.029
ideas and things that happen. with the arcs,

00:26:53.029 --> 00:26:56.250
but most of it is, even though the four of us

00:26:56.250 --> 00:27:00.650
split the writing credit on paper evenly. Sure.

00:27:00.950 --> 00:27:04.849
But as a matter of process with the arcs, we,

00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:09.509
whoever is the songwriter kind of has some degree

00:27:09.509 --> 00:27:13.750
of dominion over the song, but it just depends

00:27:13.750 --> 00:27:16.769
on how, sometimes I don't have a particular idea

00:27:16.769 --> 00:27:20.069
about how the bass part should be. Do you find

00:27:20.069 --> 00:27:23.740
it challenging? when you're in that kind of environment

00:27:23.740 --> 00:27:28.119
where it is more okay this is my song so this

00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:31.099
is how it's going to be and then you don't necessarily

00:27:31.099 --> 00:27:35.259
know how you want all of it to be yeah it's not

00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:37.039
if you have the right people it's not they just

00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.859
step up and they're cool some people will assert

00:27:41.859 --> 00:27:44.079
themselves when they have a good idea and you

00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:46.900
most of the time it is a good idea yeah and then

00:27:46.900 --> 00:27:50.960
and it normally if i have a strong idea about

00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:55.319
what something other than my guitar and my singing

00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.819
should be for a song, most of the time the people

00:27:57.819 --> 00:28:01.380
are receptive to that. This ARX record has been

00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:04.740
a long time coming, right? Yeah, it took us a

00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:08.660
while to get it. There was a lot of moving to

00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:13.180
different houses and kids being born and a lot

00:28:13.180 --> 00:28:16.200
of stuff. So it did take us a bit of time, but

00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:21.240
here now. Yeah, I'm super excited for it. The

00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.339
reason I mention that is because Kevin mentioned

00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:27.900
that when you tried to do the remote recording

00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:32.579
thing, you guys got into this thing where somebody

00:28:32.579 --> 00:28:35.759
would run with an idea too long without anybody

00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:39.259
else having any feedback at all. And so it would

00:28:39.259 --> 00:28:42.740
be like you'd get lost in a rabbit hole. Nothing

00:28:42.740 --> 00:28:45.599
specific was brought up. I'm not trying to start

00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.519
shit within the band. No, he's right. I know

00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.190
exactly what you're talking about. It's sometimes

00:28:51.190 --> 00:28:55.509
if somebody commits to an idea and then there's

00:28:55.509 --> 00:28:58.069
not that instant feedback when we work on it

00:28:58.069 --> 00:29:01.289
together, then it's like not everybody likes

00:29:01.289 --> 00:29:05.029
it. And it's also with the thing about trying

00:29:05.029 --> 00:29:08.589
to do music during COVID was that you thought,

00:29:08.690 --> 00:29:11.230
hey, we can just email our parts around and we

00:29:11.230 --> 00:29:15.269
can record remotely. Some people that works for.

00:29:15.430 --> 00:29:20.750
Yeah, but it's the... The getting together and

00:29:20.750 --> 00:29:23.150
hanging out is what drives the whole thing, it

00:29:23.150 --> 00:29:26.269
turns out. And so it's hard to get motivated

00:29:26.269 --> 00:29:28.529
to do all this stuff if you don't have the hanging

00:29:28.529 --> 00:29:31.789
out together. That would really hurt us as far

00:29:31.789 --> 00:29:34.750
as stuff. I don't have any regrets about it.

00:29:34.789 --> 00:29:38.009
It's done now. It came out well, so here we are.

00:29:38.690 --> 00:29:40.910
Yeah, no, I just think it's interesting that

00:29:40.910 --> 00:29:44.849
someone like Sloan, for instance, almost only

00:29:44.849 --> 00:29:50.180
records remotely. Yeah. And it's just... Different

00:29:50.180 --> 00:29:54.480
people can do it different ways and for very

00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:57.339
different reasons. Yeah. You probably heard from

00:29:57.339 --> 00:30:00.259
Jason a bit about how the shut -ups operate,

00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:06.599
but it's the main writer in that band, Don Condescending,

00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:08.740
his real name is Christopher Snell. Yeah. He

00:30:08.740 --> 00:30:11.799
writes every part of everything. He sends it

00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:13.299
all to us. It's like a benevolent dictatorship.

00:30:13.299 --> 00:30:15.559
Yeah, and he sends it all to us, and we learn

00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:18.539
the parts, and we can mold them, and we have

00:30:18.539 --> 00:30:22.319
input. But the songs are basically fully formed

00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.980
when we get them. And the good news is we love

00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:28.880
his songs. His songs are so good that we just

00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:33.460
play them. And so with that band, it can probably

00:30:33.460 --> 00:30:40.839
work to do more remote stuff. That could work

00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:42.619
a little better. I think Sloan said something

00:30:42.619 --> 00:30:44.619
similar. He's like, everybody, I'm just always

00:30:44.619 --> 00:30:47.380
happy with what other people lay down. It's like

00:30:47.380 --> 00:30:52.380
it's always awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's,

00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:57.880
yeah, there's a way to do it for everybody. Right.

00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.259
And sometimes the not getting together in the

00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:03.960
same room and hashing things out, if you don't

00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:05.839
have that piece of it, then it doesn't really

00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:09.000
work. I found that to be the case with a few

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:12.119
of my musical projects during that time. Yeah,

00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:17.559
yeah. Mike Cooley says at one point, like, they

00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:19.859
don't practice because if you want to break up

00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:23.380
a band, practice. And so it's just a different,

00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:24.720
totally different way of approaching it. Yeah,

00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:26.960
now those guys tour a lot. Yeah, that's true

00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:31.259
too, yeah. And I'm sure whatever... And I think

00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:33.140
they practice before they go in the studio, but

00:31:33.140 --> 00:31:36.549
that's... about it yeah well they play so much

00:31:36.549 --> 00:31:38.589
since they tour so much that they don't need

00:31:38.589 --> 00:31:43.250
to yeah yeah yeah yeah there is definitely something

00:31:43.250 --> 00:31:46.269
such a thing as being around some people too

00:31:46.269 --> 00:31:53.250
much yeah yeah so what is the first band that

00:31:53.250 --> 00:31:55.690
you were in or especially that you were writing

00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:59.809
songs in that you really felt like meant something

00:31:59.809 --> 00:32:02.549
to you that you thought was okay i'm starting

00:32:02.549 --> 00:32:05.349
to find my groove feeling fan because i was writing

00:32:05.349 --> 00:32:08.369
lyrics and vocals and guitar and like writing

00:32:08.369 --> 00:32:13.390
the full stuff even though i had a very collaborative

00:32:13.390 --> 00:32:17.289
relationship with the bass player jess robbins

00:32:17.289 --> 00:32:22.730
and dave giroux who's in the now because we would

00:32:22.730 --> 00:32:27.339
throw Let me play this for you. What do you think?

00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.799
And we'd come up with the music that way. So

00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.380
it was definitely, there was a real -time collaborative

00:32:36.380 --> 00:32:39.920
set up with that. But I was writing the lyrics

00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.599
and the melody for the voice. So that was really

00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:50.539
where I found my songwriting voice. Did you take

00:32:50.539 --> 00:32:53.809
guitar lessons? or vocal lessons a little bit

00:32:53.809 --> 00:32:56.210
about guitar lessons i never took vocal lessons

00:32:56.210 --> 00:32:58.690
yeah i took a little bit of guitar lessons and

00:32:58.690 --> 00:33:01.109
when i first started playing my mother got me

00:33:01.109 --> 00:33:06.769
a videotape of wolf marshall guitar power builder

00:33:06.769 --> 00:33:09.630
oh yeah it was just how to play lead there were

00:33:09.630 --> 00:33:14.230
no chords in it oh god i just got what was available

00:33:14.230 --> 00:33:18.470
you know right and so i when i first started

00:33:18.470 --> 00:33:21.220
playing it was like i was really into metal so

00:33:21.220 --> 00:33:23.160
it was like once i learned power chords i was

00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:25.480
like i got chords down now that's what it turns

00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:28.400
out no there's a lot more to it than that but

00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:31.480
yeah so i took a little bit of guitar lessons

00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:33.420
but it's mostly just playing along to records

00:33:33.420 --> 00:33:36.319
and going to the local music store and meeting

00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:40.539
other musicians and just learning it that way

00:33:40.539 --> 00:33:43.500
and you're listening to metal what was some of

00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:44.900
the other stuff you were growing up listening

00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:49.349
oh man when i was Before guitar, I liked a lot

00:33:49.349 --> 00:33:54.009
of the new wave stuff, like the early NXS and

00:33:54.009 --> 00:33:57.450
stuff like that. I thought that the keyboard

00:33:57.450 --> 00:34:00.210
player in the Revolution wearing the surgeon

00:34:00.210 --> 00:34:03.769
scrubs, I thought he was the coolest. And so

00:34:03.769 --> 00:34:05.809
I was into that, and then guitar comes along,

00:34:06.009 --> 00:34:09.949
and then it's just, I loved metal, and so I was

00:34:09.949 --> 00:34:14.329
really into Van Halen and Prince at the end of

00:34:14.329 --> 00:34:16.550
Let's Go Crazy, the big guitar lead at the end

00:34:16.550 --> 00:34:23.190
of that. Just the whole idea of the guitar. And

00:34:23.190 --> 00:34:26.530
it was so weird, the whole lead guitar arms race

00:34:26.530 --> 00:34:29.429
that was going on in the late 80s. Prince really

00:34:29.429 --> 00:34:31.750
doesn't get enough credit for his guitar playing.

00:34:31.809 --> 00:34:34.329
He was such an amazing guitar player. Yeah, yeah.

00:34:35.409 --> 00:34:39.369
Like one of the best. Yeah, just a cool guitar

00:34:39.369 --> 00:34:42.750
player. Always play the cool stuff. Yeah. And

00:34:42.750 --> 00:34:46.079
he knows when to not play. So all that stuff.

00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.579
And that's really important. Yeah. And when Let's

00:34:50.579 --> 00:34:54.239
Go Crazy came out, Wawa was not cool. It was

00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.699
out of style, but he comes along. Oh, I see.

00:34:56.860 --> 00:34:58.980
Let's Go Crazy comes out, and he's, like, doing

00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:01.360
this Hendrix -sounding thing, which was just

00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:05.900
not in style at that time. I guess just the music

00:35:05.900 --> 00:35:09.219
intelligentsia decided, okay, we're not doing

00:35:09.219 --> 00:35:13.610
Wawa for a while. But Prince is like, nope. Well,

00:35:13.610 --> 00:35:16.269
there was a fire at the Wawa Pedal Factory, and

00:35:16.269 --> 00:35:20.369
it was just not, they got really expensive. Yeah,

00:35:20.389 --> 00:35:27.489
but, yeah, metal, and then I went to UGA, and

00:35:27.489 --> 00:35:30.230
I couldn't help but get caught up in R .E .M.

00:35:30.289 --> 00:35:33.090
Even though I didn't really like R .E .M. in

00:35:33.090 --> 00:35:37.170
high school, I just didn't really, I just wanted

00:35:37.170 --> 00:35:40.510
fast, crunchy, riff -based music at that time.

00:35:42.010 --> 00:35:44.590
opened my ears up a bit, and I started working

00:35:44.590 --> 00:35:48.670
at the campus radio station here, 90 .5 WUOG.

00:35:49.349 --> 00:35:52.989
Oh, yeah. Shut up. So I started really hearing

00:35:52.989 --> 00:35:55.510
a lot more different kinds of music and meeting

00:35:55.510 --> 00:35:58.349
people like Jason D. Smith, a ceiling fan, and

00:35:58.349 --> 00:36:01.730
started playing, and he and I crossed paths,

00:36:01.829 --> 00:36:05.070
and our bands started playing together. He had

00:36:05.070 --> 00:36:08.230
a band called Lana Becomes a Man. Yeah, he mentioned

00:36:08.230 --> 00:36:11.079
him earlier, yeah. One of the coolest. fans that

00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:15.000
people don't know about and and so he started

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.159
being the guy that would record ceiling fan and

00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:23.699
and i didn't realize i just thought wow this

00:36:23.699 --> 00:36:26.559
is a kind of music person there are people who

00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:28.920
can do what he can do but i didn't realize he's

00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:33.000
a different breed he's he's there's not many

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.960
people as talented as him no he i yeah man i

00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:40.929
gotta say it was That was part of why I was so

00:36:40.929 --> 00:36:44.690
quiet when I first, I was just, like, processing

00:36:44.690 --> 00:36:48.550
that conversation I'd had with him. What a fucking

00:36:48.550 --> 00:36:51.989
smart guy he is. Yeah. Really enjoyed talking

00:36:51.989 --> 00:36:56.690
to him. A guy can do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And,

00:36:56.769 --> 00:36:59.030
like, you're glad he's chosen to do good things.

00:36:59.190 --> 00:37:01.449
Oh, yeah. Because he literally, I think, could

00:37:01.449 --> 00:37:05.550
do anything. Yeah, that's right. It happens to

00:37:05.550 --> 00:37:07.150
have good taste, which is good for everybody.

00:37:07.210 --> 00:37:10.699
Yeah. but yeah you know so what year did you

00:37:10.699 --> 00:37:13.860
move here i moved here in 90 okay and then he

00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:17.380
moved here in 94 i think yeah but like we started

00:37:17.380 --> 00:37:20.980
our he was living in atlanta when we met him

00:37:20.980 --> 00:37:23.019
there in the midnight that's right so we would

00:37:23.019 --> 00:37:25.480
go to atlanta to record with him because he was

00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.159
have you guys recorded sailing van i was like

00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:31.480
we have we did some stuff on a four -track why

00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:33.219
don't you come to my house and let us record

00:37:33.219 --> 00:37:36.539
let me record you and we're like yeah And it

00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:38.219
turned out it was the best recording experience

00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:40.920
we'd ever had. We were like, where have you been

00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.639
all our lives? And he totally got us, and he's

00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:48.199
just an amazing engineer. There's a reason he's

00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:52.059
the lead mastering engineer at Chase Park. Right.

00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:57.139
Yeah. Yeah, no, he's genius, I think might be

00:37:57.139 --> 00:37:59.780
the appropriate word. Yeah, he is. And so we

00:37:59.780 --> 00:38:02.940
went, we were going to Atlanta to work with him.

00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:07.039
We were trading shows and ceiling fan going to

00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.380
Atlanta and playing with his band. And then they

00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:13.260
come to Athens and play with us. And then eventually

00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:17.079
he moved to Athens there in the, I want to say

00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:21.000
sometime in the early 2000s. And then Casper

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:24.360
and the Cookies started becoming more of a band

00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.539
than just a recording project. His initial things,

00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:29.440
it was a recording only thing. And then it turned

00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:35.590
into a band. And then, you know, so that's how

00:38:35.590 --> 00:38:37.889
it's hard to believe that he hasn't lived here

00:38:37.889 --> 00:38:39.769
the whole time but there was a little yeah and

00:38:39.769 --> 00:38:42.349
then i i got some wires correct it was kevin

00:38:42.349 --> 00:38:44.750
that moved here in 94 oh yeah that sounds right

00:38:44.750 --> 00:38:48.610
and then and then yeah he was in atlanta yeah

00:38:48.610 --> 00:38:51.369
and then the whole as far as like the whole scene

00:38:51.369 --> 00:38:54.769
of people we got kevin moving here with and his

00:38:54.769 --> 00:38:56.929
brother and then doing the possibilities with

00:38:56.929 --> 00:39:01.059
bob spires and then and they started as a three

00:39:01.059 --> 00:39:02.960
-piece and then they brought in chris green and

00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:05.900
jay gonzalez and then that became the possibilities

00:39:05.900 --> 00:39:09.159
that most people know yeah powerhouse and then

00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:12.300
of course you got matt was in the early version

00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:16.099
of the truckers and then i'd take some credit

00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:20.519
for jay being in the truckers shut ups had used

00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:25.960
to do in the mid 2000s we did a halloween show

00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:28.800
every year for three or four years maybe five

00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.139
years in a row, where we would do, we would play

00:39:31.139 --> 00:39:34.860
at the Caledonia, rest in peace, where the church

00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:37.480
bar is now. But we would play there and we would

00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:40.880
do a thing where I would find people I knew who

00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:44.880
would dress up as musicians and celebrities for

00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:46.739
Halloween. And I'd say, okay, you're going to

00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:50.880
be Kenny Rogers for Halloween. Yeah. Let's learn.

00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:54.039
Islands in the stream and you come and sing it

00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:56.739
with us in costume and you'll be Dolly Parton.

00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:58.820
And we, and so I just had this whole thing up

00:39:58.820 --> 00:40:02.940
here. We got all of these people to do. Almost

00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:06.179
like a review. Yeah. We would make it like a

00:40:06.179 --> 00:40:09.699
theme, like it's a special concert to raise awareness

00:40:09.699 --> 00:40:17.409
of death. And, and, and. So we would do this

00:40:17.409 --> 00:40:19.349
thing and people would wear their costumes and

00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:20.889
get up and they would just bring the lyrics on

00:40:20.889 --> 00:40:23.190
a piece of paper and just sing it. And we had

00:40:23.190 --> 00:40:26.110
all these different people do it. And one year,

00:40:26.230 --> 00:40:32.650
Patterson and Jay both were on our roster. Patterson

00:40:32.650 --> 00:40:36.909
did Little Red Riding Hood. It's an old song.

00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:38.489
I can't remember the original artist right now.

00:40:39.230 --> 00:40:43.630
It's a 50s or a 60s song. And he had the whole

00:40:43.630 --> 00:40:48.099
Wolfman costume on. The Big Bad Wolf costume.

00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:53.800
And that same show, Jay was playing, but he did

00:40:53.800 --> 00:41:01.199
Pressure by Billy Joel on piano. And it was at

00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:05.579
that show that I think Patterson, they were looking

00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:08.659
for someone to play keyboard and guitar and stuff.

00:41:08.860 --> 00:41:13.840
And he pulled Jay aside and said, listen, I fucking

00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.650
hate Billy Joel. So that sounded great. Would

00:41:16.650 --> 00:41:18.769
you be interested in joining the truck? And so

00:41:18.769 --> 00:41:21.650
that happened at our show. It was like sometime

00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:27.630
in the mid 2000s. Yeah. Yeah. That's hilarious.

00:41:27.849 --> 00:41:31.650
Yeah. So did you, what are some of the, the job,

00:41:31.730 --> 00:41:34.710
like some of the jobs that you've had in Athens

00:41:34.710 --> 00:41:39.670
over the years? I worked for the UGA food services

00:41:39.670 --> 00:41:42.929
a lot when I first started living here just on

00:41:42.929 --> 00:41:46.199
campus. delivery driver and i'm working the concession

00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:48.659
stand at the tate center where the movie theater

00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:50.940
is and all that stuff so i did a bunch of that

00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:56.579
and then i was a educational representative for

00:41:56.579 --> 00:42:01.840
a musical instrument retailer and to where i

00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.820
would go to schools and help the school the band

00:42:04.820 --> 00:42:08.119
director like repair instruments and then basically

00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:11.260
in return for helping out the band director they

00:42:11.260 --> 00:42:13.460
would do their school band instrument rentals

00:42:13.460 --> 00:42:15.380
through us and buy all their music through us

00:42:15.380 --> 00:42:17.840
and all this those were like like a thing like

00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:21.420
that and so i got pretty heavily into knowing

00:42:21.420 --> 00:42:25.360
a lot about school band and orchestra and fixing

00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:27.719
those instruments yeah yeah that's pretty cool

00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:32.440
yeah yeah like thing reads and mouthpieces and

00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:35.719
all that stuff because that was really fun and

00:42:35.719 --> 00:42:40.179
we would go into the we would go to the fifth

00:42:40.179 --> 00:42:42.880
grade fifth graders in elementary school and

00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.780
test those kids on what they were going to play

00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:48.739
in sixth grade and band. So you would have the

00:42:48.739 --> 00:42:50.940
mouthpieces out and they would all take turns

00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:55.619
playing stuff. And, and certain kids would definitely

00:42:55.619 --> 00:42:57.820
have aptitude for other certain types of music.

00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.360
Some kids would be good at playing the brass

00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.460
mouthpiece. And some kids had the aptitude for

00:43:02.460 --> 00:43:05.519
the flute head joint blowing across the, it's

00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:09.210
like blowing across a Coke bottle. How much of

00:43:09.210 --> 00:43:11.429
that has to do with natural mouth shape and things

00:43:11.429 --> 00:43:13.909
like that? It's all of that. It's all of that

00:43:13.909 --> 00:43:18.130
and just why are their brains wired? But there's

00:43:18.130 --> 00:43:20.489
just nothing cooler than telling a little kid

00:43:20.489 --> 00:43:23.269
that they're good at something. Yeah. That sounds

00:43:23.269 --> 00:43:26.110
fucking awesome. It was my favorite. I love that

00:43:26.110 --> 00:43:30.389
job. The thing that was interesting is that all

00:43:30.389 --> 00:43:32.530
the kids, it turns out everyone wants to play

00:43:32.530 --> 00:43:36.750
saxophone and... percussion the two loudest things

00:43:36.750 --> 00:43:40.590
so you can't you have to make those really hard

00:43:40.590 --> 00:43:45.030
destiny so you don't have too many and how do

00:43:45.030 --> 00:43:48.250
you feel about saxophone and rock music did kevin

00:43:48.250 --> 00:43:52.489
talk about that no not at all i literally i think

00:43:52.489 --> 00:43:56.469
maybe is just like guitar it can be bad or it

00:43:56.469 --> 00:43:59.050
can be good yeah yeah there's a right way to

00:43:59.050 --> 00:44:03.369
do it just like guitar i tend to in far as saxophone

00:44:03.369 --> 00:44:07.360
and rock music i like the coasters and the yeah

00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:11.400
50s and 60s rock with saxophone there's a lot

00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:16.079
of bad stuff in the 80s with david sanborn and

00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:18.900
all that sort of stuff and the clarence clemons

00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:23.500
and but yeah there's a lot of bad stuff but then

00:44:23.500 --> 00:44:26.840
you got the band morphine totally cool yeah that

00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:31.039
band rules yeah my buddy jason who is like one

00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.949
of my longest friends who used to take me to

00:44:33.949 --> 00:44:35.769
shows all the time when I was a poor college

00:44:35.769 --> 00:44:39.329
kid. That's one of his all -time favorite bands.

00:44:39.369 --> 00:44:43.610
So just shout out to Jason. Kids, sometimes you

00:44:43.610 --> 00:44:46.570
just have to put the saxophone mouthpiece away.

00:44:46.650 --> 00:44:48.329
You already got too many. There's already too

00:44:48.329 --> 00:44:50.070
many of them. And they're loud. You can't have

00:44:50.070 --> 00:44:51.750
too many saxophones in the band. There's all

00:44:51.750 --> 00:44:54.269
these kids that are coming to test to figure

00:44:54.269 --> 00:44:56.210
out what to play. And a lot of kids end up playing.

00:44:56.329 --> 00:44:58.050
They can't play anything. They can always play

00:44:58.050 --> 00:45:02.179
clarinet. It's always an easy one. I'm laughing

00:45:02.179 --> 00:45:04.880
because my mom played clarinet. Well, it's something

00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:06.619
you wanted to start with, and then those kids

00:45:06.619 --> 00:45:09.980
would often graduate to saxophone or oboe. She

00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:13.739
was a drum major in high school. My mom was talented,

00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:17.039
but I just thought it was just funny. It's just

00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:18.619
one of those things where the kid who can't play

00:45:18.619 --> 00:45:21.019
anything, it's just like anybody can blow into

00:45:21.019 --> 00:45:23.360
a clarinet mouthpiece and get a sound. But the

00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:26.480
thing about percussion, you had to pick the kids

00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.820
that... It seemed like they had enough upstairs

00:45:28.820 --> 00:45:30.920
to be able to keep up with all the mallets and

00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:33.699
the sticks and everything. And you couldn't have

00:45:33.699 --> 00:45:36.519
too many of them, so you'd have to make the test

00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:39.699
hard enough that only the really smart ones could

00:45:39.699 --> 00:45:42.579
do it. Oh, interesting. You would tap on your

00:45:42.579 --> 00:45:45.800
knees and have the kid mirror what you were doing,

00:45:45.860 --> 00:45:47.739
and you would make it really weird and hard,

00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.260
and some kids would get it. And you would be

00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:53.389
like... You got to do it. There's nothing better

00:45:53.389 --> 00:45:55.190
than telling a little kid they're good at something.

00:45:55.429 --> 00:45:58.429
And the next thing you know, it's a superstar

00:45:58.429 --> 00:46:01.110
in a superstar machine taking it to the stars.

00:46:01.250 --> 00:46:03.230
But you get some kids that are like, you would

00:46:03.230 --> 00:46:06.590
make it really hard. You would have a pattern

00:46:06.590 --> 00:46:10.650
on your hands and knees that it would just be

00:46:10.650 --> 00:46:13.449
really hard to memorize. It was weird. And some

00:46:13.449 --> 00:46:15.389
of the kids would just do it easily and be like,

00:46:15.530 --> 00:46:20.730
okay. But yeah, it's... I think if kids had their

00:46:20.730 --> 00:46:22.849
way, everyone would be on saxophone and drums,

00:46:22.929 --> 00:46:25.369
and that would be it. That sounds like a terrible

00:46:25.369 --> 00:46:29.409
band. Yeah. I do not want to see them. A lot

00:46:29.409 --> 00:46:32.630
of girls like to play flute for whatever reason,

00:46:32.730 --> 00:46:35.849
and it's also just the whole, it's like, are

00:46:35.849 --> 00:46:39.190
you, is your brain wired, and are you someone

00:46:39.190 --> 00:46:41.769
that can just do the whole thing? That's right.

00:46:42.190 --> 00:46:47.230
Being able to throw the skinny stream of air

00:46:47.230 --> 00:46:50.559
over the... Over the hole in the flute head joint.

00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:57.059
That's wild to think about how early that you

00:46:57.059 --> 00:46:59.099
would be able to figure that out with some of

00:46:59.099 --> 00:47:01.360
these kids too. That's pretty cool. That was

00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:04.260
a great job. I had that for a while. Did you

00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:06.500
find life getting a lot easier when you started

00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:09.139
to do jobs that were directly related to music?

00:47:09.579 --> 00:47:13.340
Yeah, but that job had its own difficulties.

00:47:13.719 --> 00:47:15.440
I'm sure it was politics. I had to drive a lot

00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:20.960
for it. My mom was a high school teacher, which

00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:25.219
I feel like I'm ragging on my mom, but that's

00:47:25.219 --> 00:47:28.039
fine. That's cool. Those that can't do teach,

00:47:28.219 --> 00:47:31.019
and those that can't play anything play clarinet.

00:47:31.300 --> 00:47:35.179
So I'm like, fuck, mom, I'm sorry. Anybody can

00:47:35.179 --> 00:47:38.860
be in a band. You can always get someone on clarinet.

00:47:39.099 --> 00:47:42.719
It's one of those ones where you just basically

00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:47.780
blow into it and it makes a sound. Yeah, after

00:47:47.780 --> 00:47:51.039
that, I had the job that I have today, which

00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:55.199
is just a software company job. There's a lot

00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:58.019
of those software companies here in Athens. Yeah.

00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:01.920
Can we just switch gears for a second? Why do

00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:04.820
you think that is? I'm sure there's probably

00:48:04.820 --> 00:48:08.139
real reasons out there. For a while, I think

00:48:08.139 --> 00:48:12.619
a lot of it was you had a lot of educated people

00:48:12.619 --> 00:48:15.670
and cheap office space. For a while, it's not

00:48:15.670 --> 00:48:18.110
so cheap now. It's gotten more expensive, but

00:48:18.110 --> 00:48:22.929
it seemed like it was easier to have a workspace.

00:48:23.110 --> 00:48:25.489
Now, of course, a lot of people work from home,

00:48:25.510 --> 00:48:30.190
and it's not as necessary, but that's why. Gosh,

00:48:31.250 --> 00:48:33.190
my buddy who used to have an office down, they

00:48:33.190 --> 00:48:34.989
got rid of their office. Yeah, that's what they

00:48:34.989 --> 00:48:39.250
did with us, too. You don't work with Matt Luffman,

00:48:39.309 --> 00:48:45.010
do you? I do. Oh, okay. That's who I was. I was

00:48:45.010 --> 00:48:48.250
like, wait a second. Yeah. I've stayed at his

00:48:48.250 --> 00:48:50.469
house every year for homecoming for the last

00:48:50.469 --> 00:48:53.389
decade. I've known that dude since 2008, man.

00:48:53.449 --> 00:48:56.369
I love that guy. He's on such a different area

00:48:56.369 --> 00:48:58.969
of the company than I am that I almost hardly

00:48:58.969 --> 00:49:02.369
ever cross paths with him at work. But whenever

00:49:02.369 --> 00:49:06.650
the company has a get together, I'll see him.

00:49:06.809 --> 00:49:08.550
And so that's the only reason I even know he

00:49:08.550 --> 00:49:12.510
still works there. Yeah. He's cool. Yeah, no,

00:49:12.590 --> 00:49:15.610
he's great. And that's how I got to know Jen

00:49:15.610 --> 00:49:18.829
Bryant a little bit. Oh, yeah. I don't know all

00:49:18.829 --> 00:49:22.469
the history of the company, but at one point,

00:49:22.469 --> 00:49:25.849
the company that Matt is at now was part of a

00:49:25.849 --> 00:49:28.250
company that Jen was also at. I don't know. Yeah,

00:49:28.250 --> 00:49:32.409
it got bought and sold a lot and split off into

00:49:32.409 --> 00:49:35.730
pieces and all this stuff. I think Matt and I

00:49:35.730 --> 00:49:38.869
are still with the same company, I believe. It

00:49:38.869 --> 00:49:41.139
sounds like... It sounds like it, unless both

00:49:41.139 --> 00:49:42.840
of y 'all got rid of your office. That was a

00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:46.619
sweet parking spot gig. Dude, what a perk, man.

00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:50.099
What a perk. I definitely don't go downtown as

00:49:50.099 --> 00:49:53.139
much as I used to. Dude, there was a point there

00:49:53.139 --> 00:49:55.780
after we lost our office like two or three years

00:49:55.780 --> 00:49:57.719
ago where I was just like, I haven't had to look

00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:04.190
for parking downtown in 10 years, man. How does

00:50:04.190 --> 00:50:06.329
this even work? What if I leave my car downtown?

00:50:06.489 --> 00:50:08.809
What happens? And we would always ride down together.

00:50:09.230 --> 00:50:11.969
Yeah, yeah. And then just Uber back, because

00:50:11.969 --> 00:50:14.949
we're not driving. We play a gig at the Nowhere

00:50:14.949 --> 00:50:16.329
Bar. Well, if we're not getting together, nobody's

00:50:16.329 --> 00:50:19.010
driving. Yeah, you play a gig at the Nowhere

00:50:19.010 --> 00:50:22.909
Bar, you could just put your gear in your car

00:50:22.909 --> 00:50:25.530
and then just put it up in the deck. And then

00:50:25.530 --> 00:50:31.409
get an Uber ride home, and you're, okay, my gear

00:50:31.409 --> 00:50:34.269
is in my car, but... What are the odds somebody's

00:50:34.269 --> 00:50:36.010
going to climb all the way up the stairs of the

00:50:36.010 --> 00:50:37.809
parking lot, break into it, and then come all

00:50:37.809 --> 00:50:39.449
the way down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems like

00:50:39.449 --> 00:50:42.469
a pretty safe bet for the night. There's cameras

00:50:42.469 --> 00:50:45.929
in there, too. It's a little bit different than...

00:50:45.929 --> 00:50:48.110
You could carry your guitars in the Uber car,

00:50:48.289 --> 00:50:50.510
so it'd be only the heavy shit that would be

00:50:50.510 --> 00:50:53.989
left in the car. Or your pedals, which you don't

00:50:53.989 --> 00:50:58.789
want to lose those either. So, Athens is crazy.

00:50:58.909 --> 00:51:01.070
This happens all the time. It's wonderful. Yeah,

00:51:01.130 --> 00:51:03.400
I love it. I love it. There's a whole phenomenon

00:51:03.400 --> 00:51:06.360
of people leaving their gear at the venue overnight

00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:08.380
and say, yeah, I'll just come and get it tomorrow.

00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:12.260
I try to avoid doing that, but sometimes it's

00:51:12.260 --> 00:51:14.500
just so alluring. But in a big city, you would

00:51:14.500 --> 00:51:18.079
just never do that. You'd be so scared that your

00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:19.840
gear wouldn't be there when you come back. I

00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:22.059
don't even know if it's the big city aspect of

00:51:22.059 --> 00:51:25.900
it. It's like the walkable aspect. Because you

00:51:25.900 --> 00:51:28.179
can very easily be like, all right. i'm done

00:51:28.179 --> 00:51:30.059
with this show but there's five other things

00:51:30.059 --> 00:51:32.420
going on tonight and i don't want to have to

00:51:32.420 --> 00:51:34.940
like do not be downtown anymore or whatever go

00:51:34.940 --> 00:51:38.380
home like basically around the corner in athens

00:51:38.380 --> 00:51:41.320
is 10 everything is 10 minutes away yeah from

00:51:41.320 --> 00:51:43.860
everything yeah in athens if some and if you're

00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:45.940
downtown everything's a 10 minute walk yeah yeah

00:51:45.940 --> 00:51:48.679
and so it's so i think it's one of the reasons

00:51:48.679 --> 00:51:50.719
why it's very easy for you to get people to interview

00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:53.239
you on short notices because it's like it was

00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:56.300
a 10 minute drive to come over here i could Yeah.

00:51:56.300 --> 00:52:01.059
Leaving your gear behind at the venue and having

00:52:01.059 --> 00:52:04.139
an arranger to come get it. It's like in Atlanta,

00:52:04.340 --> 00:52:08.139
around the corner is 20 minutes. And around the

00:52:08.139 --> 00:52:10.360
corner is usually not where you live from the

00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:13.679
venue. So I'm going to drive 40 minutes. Just

00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.980
load your gear in their car. Don't drink too

00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:21.300
much and just drive home, buddy. Yeah, just the

00:52:21.300 --> 00:52:27.099
way. You are working that night. Yeah. I feel

00:52:27.099 --> 00:52:31.079
like that's the thing that's plagued musicians

00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:36.280
is the term playing. When you're doing music,

00:52:36.340 --> 00:52:39.920
you're playing. So it feels like it's okay if

00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:43.099
the musician is the last person to be paid because

00:52:43.099 --> 00:52:45.820
they're not working, they're playing. I feel

00:52:45.820 --> 00:52:48.360
like that word itself is the thing that's made

00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:50.820
it to where musicians just get ripped off all

00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:53.840
the time. Comedians just get chicken fingers.

00:52:54.099 --> 00:52:58.059
Yeah, yeah. Mozzarella sticks. Yeah, actually,

00:52:58.139 --> 00:53:00.199
I could go for some mozzarella sticks right now,

00:53:00.219 --> 00:53:03.739
dude. Yeah, yeah, they got some. Last night was

00:53:03.739 --> 00:53:07.300
a long night at Cosby Charlie's. Oh, yeah. I

00:53:07.300 --> 00:53:09.860
went and had a burger at lunch today. Right on.

00:53:10.099 --> 00:53:12.079
I'm definitely like, all right, I'm ready to

00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:15.099
dive into some real food tonight. Yeah, man.

00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.800
So when you're writing songs, the really good

00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:22.920
ones, and I think I already... know if i don't

00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:24.579
know the answer to this it's going to surprise

00:53:24.579 --> 00:53:29.380
me but when you write like a really good song

00:53:29.380 --> 00:53:32.840
it's like you have your antenna up and it happens

00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:37.059
to you right yeah what about when you're writing

00:53:37.059 --> 00:53:39.340
a song like that it's like you have to get it

00:53:39.340 --> 00:53:41.340
out of you or something like that but it's not

00:53:41.340 --> 00:53:46.599
as fluid as that yeah sometimes it really feels

00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:49.079
like and this is a cliche thing but sometimes

00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.780
they write themselves and sometimes you have

00:53:51.780 --> 00:53:54.199
to work on them really hard but then occasionally

00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:58.139
it just seems like the results still you end

00:53:58.139 --> 00:54:00.420
up with something you like either way it's just

00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:04.480
sometimes you gotta get under the hood of it

00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:09.480
and work on it more it doesn't just come as naturally

00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:13.800
it's i guess it's the ones that write themselves

00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:17.980
seemingly they're appealing in a way that You

00:54:17.980 --> 00:54:19.559
almost feel like you cheated because it was too

00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:23.980
easy. So you kind of love that one. I think jokes

00:54:23.980 --> 00:54:26.780
are like the joke writing process is almost exactly

00:54:26.780 --> 00:54:29.159
the same. And this is where I feel like the closest

00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:33.260
parallel between songwriters and comedians. The

00:54:33.260 --> 00:54:37.119
really good jokes, I didn't even come up with

00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:40.739
it. It happened to me. Come up with a good joke.

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:46.599
How quickly do you... At what point do you research

00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:49.079
to make sure you didn't subconsciously steal

00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:52.440
it from somebody? I don't. Yeah, you just assume

00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:54.380
you didn't. No, because here's the other thing,

00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:56.079
and I think this is probably true with songwriting

00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:00.519
too, is I'm going to make it my own. And this

00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:03.699
is where I think I didn't start doing comedy

00:55:03.699 --> 00:55:06.300
until pretty late, but I'd done all of these

00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:08.380
other things in my life to where when I started

00:55:08.380 --> 00:55:12.519
doing comedy, I found my voice and stuff. right

00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:14.440
away and I actually want to talk to you about

00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:18.239
that process because I think that's that's like

00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:20.199
the most important thing for an artist is like

00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:22.280
going for where you're all right I want to sound

00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:24.619
like this or I'm mimicking this to like having

00:55:24.619 --> 00:55:28.360
your own sound yeah but I think I was able to

00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:30.900
achieve that with my with comedy pretty quick

00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:33.739
because I'd taught college I'd raised a kid I'd

00:55:33.739 --> 00:55:36.440
also just gotten to the age where I didn't give

00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:38.500
a fuck about a lot of things anymore that I used

00:55:38.500 --> 00:55:42.559
to like stuff that doesn't matter Like the stuff

00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:44.480
that people care about when they think everything

00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:47.340
matters, that doesn't matter. Like what other

00:55:47.340 --> 00:55:50.860
people think, for instance. Yeah. Once you realize

00:55:50.860 --> 00:55:52.460
that what other people think of you is none of

00:55:52.460 --> 00:55:56.440
your business, it's so freeing. Yeah. And you

00:55:56.440 --> 00:55:58.659
realize that people don't think that much about

00:55:58.659 --> 00:56:02.000
you very much at all. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay,

00:56:02.019 --> 00:56:05.159
too. Yeah. I'm okay with that. Yeah, it's definitely

00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:10.590
okay. What was that process like for you when

00:56:10.590 --> 00:56:13.969
you found your own voice? Because I think that's

00:56:13.969 --> 00:56:17.690
when, and I don't know that I fully answered

00:56:17.690 --> 00:56:19.250
your question because that's how we got here,

00:56:19.329 --> 00:56:23.730
but when you have your own voice, nobody's got

00:56:23.730 --> 00:56:26.349
the same joke. Yeah, it's not the same. It's

00:56:26.349 --> 00:56:29.489
not. It's just not. It might have the same premise.

00:56:29.510 --> 00:56:32.710
There might be some overlap, but... I also try

00:56:32.710 --> 00:56:34.969
to record my sets, even if I don't release them,

00:56:35.070 --> 00:56:36.590
because then I'm like, hey, I told this joke

00:56:36.590 --> 00:56:40.010
on this day. Yeah. I wrote a Toby Keith joke

00:56:40.010 --> 00:56:43.610
the day he died that got me booed. Oh, too soon.

00:56:43.929 --> 00:56:46.590
No, it's never too soon. It's just the wrong

00:56:46.590 --> 00:56:51.489
crowd. Yeah. Yeah. These were people that liked

00:56:51.489 --> 00:56:55.730
Toby Keith. That was the problem. It's hard finding

00:56:55.730 --> 00:56:59.789
your own voice as a musician. It's just, you

00:56:59.789 --> 00:57:03.789
start. mimicking other things and then you figure

00:57:03.789 --> 00:57:08.829
out what combination of things feels like you

00:57:08.829 --> 00:57:11.130
and what's natural to you and it's just it's

00:57:11.130 --> 00:57:13.269
a i think everybody has a different way of getting

00:57:13.269 --> 00:57:17.309
there but it usually starts with you learning

00:57:17.309 --> 00:57:20.710
to play other people's stuff and get good at

00:57:20.710 --> 00:57:23.449
that and then you learn some other people's things

00:57:23.449 --> 00:57:26.250
and you and you just make a sort of a mixture

00:57:26.250 --> 00:57:28.650
of it everybody so you were playing a lot of

00:57:28.650 --> 00:57:30.940
like punk and metal yeah when you were younger

00:57:30.940 --> 00:57:34.239
how did that evolve into what you do now you

00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:37.679
know um pretty different well i think when i

00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:40.780
was learning to play when it was still lead guitar

00:57:40.780 --> 00:57:43.480
was a big thing and it was in the 80s before

00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:48.059
pre -grunge so it was definitely so i feel like

00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:52.320
i gained some technique and some ability from

00:57:52.320 --> 00:57:57.130
that but then it just seemed it was just so interesting

00:57:57.130 --> 00:58:00.349
when it just became super uncool to do anything

00:58:00.349 --> 00:58:04.750
that would glorify your ability to play your

00:58:04.750 --> 00:58:09.429
instrument. It became very uncool. Can you explain

00:58:09.429 --> 00:58:12.329
that dynamic a little bit? Because this is, I

00:58:12.329 --> 00:58:14.510
think, something I never saw. Yeah, dude, you

00:58:14.510 --> 00:58:20.550
go from people, everybody that was imitating

00:58:20.550 --> 00:58:24.030
Eddie Van Halen, and all the constellation of

00:58:24.030 --> 00:58:26.690
people doing that. And there's a million of them.

00:58:26.949 --> 00:58:30.010
And it was on the radio. You had White Snake

00:58:30.010 --> 00:58:33.769
and all these bands. And then just a couple years

00:58:33.769 --> 00:58:36.929
later, Kurt Cobain is looking directly in the

00:58:36.929 --> 00:58:39.789
camera during the guitar solo of Teen Spirit,

00:58:39.869 --> 00:58:43.989
turning his tuning keys. This is stupid. I don't

00:58:43.989 --> 00:58:47.170
care about any of it. And then that paradigm

00:58:47.170 --> 00:58:50.090
shift. And so then it just felt right to just

00:58:50.090 --> 00:58:54.949
play more simply and for the song. Because you

00:58:54.949 --> 00:58:57.730
cared about musicianship. Yeah, you do. But then

00:58:57.730 --> 00:59:02.010
you're sort of like, it did feel pointless at

00:59:02.010 --> 00:59:06.730
that time. And I was all, I agreed it was stupid.

00:59:06.949 --> 00:59:10.469
But I felt good that I could still do it. I could

00:59:10.469 --> 00:59:14.449
still play. I knew I had developed the ability

00:59:14.449 --> 00:59:17.510
to play. I'm just choosing to play more simply

00:59:17.510 --> 00:59:20.550
and more directly. So I got into it. Sometimes

00:59:20.550 --> 00:59:23.769
it's just two chords and fuck you. Exactly. And

00:59:23.769 --> 00:59:27.889
that's what Soundgarden and that was the first

00:59:27.889 --> 00:59:30.530
sort of grunge thing that I got into in the late

00:59:30.530 --> 00:59:34.289
80s. And then you had Nirvana, of course, blew

00:59:34.289 --> 00:59:38.909
the doors off. But it just made sense to play

00:59:38.909 --> 00:59:41.550
more simply into the song because it was overdone,

00:59:41.550 --> 00:59:48.070
the whole flashy guitar thing. But then that,

00:59:48.210 --> 00:59:53.860
for me, morphed into Fugazi. That band and their

00:59:53.860 --> 00:59:57.619
guitar style, they would take, they were playing,

00:59:57.800 --> 00:59:59.920
two people playing simple things when you put

00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:02.039
them together sound complex. So it's interesting.

01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:06.099
So they were, so I got heavily into that for

01:00:06.099 --> 01:00:11.840
a while. And then it's like Ian got, it's like

01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:14.360
he got more music. He stops Minor Threat and

01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:17.820
he gets more musical. Right. And you get the

01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:21.199
best of both worlds with Fugazi. develop their

01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:25.360
own guitar language of just ways of playing.

01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:29.599
And I really got into that way for a while. And

01:00:29.599 --> 01:00:32.500
then somewhere in there, it just suddenly became

01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:36.300
right. It's still fun to bend the strings and

01:00:36.300 --> 01:00:40.940
play like in a classic rock way. So that came

01:00:40.940 --> 01:00:43.519
back. And then so now I just feel like I have

01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:47.679
this whole post -punk vocabulary, but I have

01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:51.579
the. I can't help but have the metal vocabulary

01:00:51.579 --> 01:00:53.940
because that's what I grew up when I was... Can't

01:00:53.940 --> 01:00:58.099
stop the metal. No. Yeah, it's funny. I think

01:00:58.099 --> 01:01:00.320
if you come see, if you see the shut -ups, you'll

01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:05.179
see that I'm Dr. Power Chord and Jason is the

01:01:05.179 --> 01:01:10.420
more, he's more of a piano guy and has the, like,

01:01:10.539 --> 01:01:13.480
there's a part that's more metal in a particular

01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:18.219
shut -up song. I'm playing that part. But, yeah.

01:01:19.400 --> 01:01:25.940
I've just got my favorite music is late 70s early

01:01:25.940 --> 01:01:31.679
80s period where you had punk rock and heavy

01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:34.019
metal sort of butting heads and there was this

01:01:34.019 --> 01:01:38.019
weird mixture of it where people couldn't decide

01:01:38.019 --> 01:01:40.719
which team they were on and that was my favorite

01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:44.900
time before it really split off yeah it's like

01:01:44.900 --> 01:01:47.510
you're either in this camp or this camp It was

01:01:47.510 --> 01:01:51.869
like hardcore punk, and that was the thing that

01:01:51.869 --> 01:01:56.409
both hardcore and punk and metal all split off

01:01:56.409 --> 01:01:58.469
into a little bit. This is a weird example, but

01:01:58.469 --> 01:02:03.469
the first Billy Idol was like a weird, it was

01:02:03.469 --> 01:02:06.630
metal and punk at the same time. Yeah, that really

01:02:06.630 --> 01:02:11.449
is. Yeah. And so it's just my favorite time,

01:02:11.530 --> 01:02:18.559
the whole power pop, pub rock. Punk scene with

01:02:18.559 --> 01:02:22.579
metal creeping into it What was the first concert

01:02:22.579 --> 01:02:25.500
that you really like that you remember? We're

01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:28.360
like the guitar player was like the fucking like

01:02:28.360 --> 01:02:33.420
a god Any Van Halen, but it was I was at the

01:02:33.420 --> 01:02:40.079
age. I was I was Van Hagar. It was yeah I did

01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:43.159
end up getting to see Van Halen with David Lee

01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:45.679
Roth, but it was much later than that So, of

01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:51.219
course, he's – that guy's a giant. I think I'm

01:02:51.219 --> 01:02:54.780
definitely heavily influenced by Eddie Van Halen

01:02:54.780 --> 01:02:57.360
for sure. There's just no way around it. Angus

01:02:57.360 --> 01:03:01.699
Young, Pete Townsend. Yeah. Dee Boone from the

01:03:01.699 --> 01:03:05.559
Minutemen. Oh, interesting. That's not one that

01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:08.360
people mention very often. No, but, yeah, I'm

01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:13.369
big into that. Nels Klein. Yeah, Nels Klein,

01:03:13.510 --> 01:03:18.110
one of my favorites. I was so happy he was back

01:03:18.110 --> 01:03:21.090
with Wilco this year. They played Tallahassee.

01:03:21.250 --> 01:03:25.050
It was impossible. When he plays Impossible Germany,

01:03:25.369 --> 01:03:28.889
there's just not much. A lot of Wilco purists

01:03:28.889 --> 01:03:32.050
don't really dig Nels Klein being in it. I don't

01:03:32.050 --> 01:03:36.010
care. I think it makes everything better. Yeah,

01:03:36.050 --> 01:03:39.989
yeah. Dude, these people that just won't let

01:03:39.989 --> 01:03:44.519
artists evolve. Yeah. That drives me crazy more

01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:46.320
than, oh, you don't sound like you. You look

01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:48.920
good. Thank fucking God. Those records are already

01:03:48.920 --> 01:03:50.480
there. You don't have to like it either. Those

01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:52.659
records are there already. Yeah. Go listen to

01:03:52.659 --> 01:03:56.380
those. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Speaking of records,

01:03:56.559 --> 01:04:00.039
what are you, you've got the Arcs and the Shut

01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.300
Ups coming out. Yeah. What else is going on in

01:04:02.300 --> 01:04:04.780
your world? Oh my God. So yeah, I mean, it's

01:04:04.780 --> 01:04:08.980
crazy that my two, two of my bands I play with.

01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:11.139
are both putting out records at the same time

01:04:11.139 --> 01:04:13.599
we just worked out this way with the shut -ups

01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:17.599
putting out proverbs on september 6th and the

01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:21.199
arts releasing 10 days later yeah the next week

01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:26.280
yeah is recent arcs releasing athens ave on september

01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:29.920
13th i have an i have another group called normal

01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.800
town sound machine that has a record completed

01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:38.650
that we're figuring out all the artwork and if

01:04:38.650 --> 01:04:41.269
there's going to be a label. So that's a band

01:04:41.269 --> 01:04:45.110
where I write all the songs, but my sister -in

01:04:45.110 --> 01:04:47.130
-law is the singer, so that's fine. I write all

01:04:47.130 --> 01:04:49.250
the songs, but I'm not the singer in the band.

01:04:49.969 --> 01:04:53.750
I'm pretty sure I've heard that. Yeah. I also

01:04:53.750 --> 01:04:56.829
think we've had drinks at Flickr before. That

01:04:56.829 --> 01:05:00.690
was my episode with Ben Spraker. It was awesome

01:05:00.690 --> 01:05:04.820
talking to him. I really love... We probably

01:05:04.820 --> 01:05:07.860
have. We probably have. I've been sitting here

01:05:07.860 --> 01:05:10.920
really like... This guy's familiar. Yeah, yeah.

01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:16.300
I feel like we could talk all day. We probably

01:05:16.300 --> 01:05:18.980
could. But is there anything that you really

01:05:18.980 --> 01:05:21.420
want to make sure that you talk about before

01:05:21.420 --> 01:05:24.340
we start to wrap things up and move on? No, just

01:05:24.340 --> 01:05:28.079
everyone forgive me for imploring you to listen

01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:31.440
to all this music that I'm part of that's all

01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:35.219
coming out at one time. great records coming

01:05:35.219 --> 01:05:39.860
out that we're really proud of with the Shut

01:05:39.860 --> 01:05:44.679
Up's Proverbs and the Ark's Athens Ave. You should

01:05:44.679 --> 01:05:46.800
have just done one release show. Yeah, I know.

01:05:47.619 --> 01:05:50.719
I love doing double duty, man. Yeah, there you

01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:55.820
go. Do you like playing live or recording more?

01:05:56.280 --> 01:06:00.159
I think I like playing live maybe a little more.

01:06:00.619 --> 01:06:03.599
And that's that's against the grain of a lot

01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:05.579
of people. Pretty much everybody I've talked

01:06:05.579 --> 01:06:07.599
to. Yeah. In the last couple. Yeah. A little

01:06:07.599 --> 01:06:10.400
bit. Yeah. I like. Like Sloan never plays. Yeah.

01:06:10.480 --> 01:06:14.659
He isn't. I like putting it out there. And I

01:06:14.659 --> 01:06:18.800
just love. I love the energy of live shows. And

01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:22.199
the audience and all of that. But I love recording

01:06:22.199 --> 01:06:26.139
too. It's hard to pick. They're both so different.

01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:31.260
But. I think the fans. while the records are

01:06:31.260 --> 01:06:35.219
like life -changing sometimes and everything

01:06:35.219 --> 01:06:38.159
you could possibly all the things that you want

01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:43.539
a record to be shows are where i think the real

01:06:43.539 --> 01:06:47.199
like explosion happens yeah yeah it's just fun

01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:52.920
to see the machine work and show the people how

01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:55.420
the machine works i think it goes back to what

01:06:55.420 --> 01:06:57.980
you were talking about earlier right at the beginning

01:06:57.980 --> 01:07:00.889
you were like picked up guitar with the drummer

01:07:00.889 --> 01:07:02.849
and you like you knew you just wanted to be in

01:07:02.849 --> 01:07:04.269
a band you wanted to work on this thing that

01:07:04.269 --> 01:07:06.409
you like work together as a group and refined

01:07:06.409 --> 01:07:08.230
it and made it something that you could put out

01:07:08.230 --> 01:07:12.130
in public yeah and that's what's beautiful I

01:07:12.130 --> 01:07:16.190
think that recording is cool but that's what's

01:07:16.190 --> 01:07:18.670
beautiful about it all thank you so much it always

01:07:18.670 --> 01:07:21.230
feels good to be in the club of people that somebody

01:07:21.230 --> 01:07:24.889
wants to talk to that was my interview with Ben

01:07:24.889 --> 01:07:28.179
Spraker I really enjoyed talking to him. He's

01:07:28.179 --> 01:07:31.820
a super nice guy. Make sure you check out the

01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:35.900
ARCs and the Shut Ups. The Shut Ups new album

01:07:35.900 --> 01:07:40.900
Proverbs is coming out, I think, Friday. If that's

01:07:40.900 --> 01:07:44.320
when streaming things come out. Maybe it's out

01:07:44.320 --> 01:07:47.400
today. I don't know. It's out this week, though.

01:07:48.039 --> 01:07:51.920
The release party's this Saturday. If you're

01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:54.239
in the Athens area, check it out. Make sure you

01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:57.719
hit that like button. Subscribe. Tell me what

01:07:57.719 --> 01:08:02.059
your favorite song that you listened to as a

01:08:02.059 --> 01:08:06.260
kid was in the comments. Thanks for listening

01:08:06.260 --> 01:08:10.159
to Overeducated and Underemployed. Next week,

01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:13.980
we got Kevin Lane from the Arcs. And all I'm

01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:15.300
going to say is you're going to be hearing a

01:08:15.300 --> 01:08:20.039
lot more about that band. I promise you. Thanks

01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:20.840
for listening, y 'all.