Welcome to Season 2 of Overeducated and Underemployed.
I'm Fedden. I'm super excited for the interview
I've got for you today, and I'm super excited
for the things I've got coming for you this season.
We are doing video now, so you can check out
our YouTube channel. I'm also doing some interviews
over video chat and other methods, but... Still
doing the majority in person if I can, but I
wanted to expand my options a little bit. Today
is going to be the first of such episodes. Today
I am talking to Jeff Whalen, who was the singer
for a band called Czar. He's also got a solo
record out that came out in 2019 that I didn't
know about until I talked to him. But I have
since listened to it, and man, is it fun. Check
it out. There's a link to it in the description.
If rock and roll saved my life as a teenager,
then Czar is definitely one of the bands that
did it. And rock and roll definitely saved my
life as a teenager, and still does. I had a great
talk with Jeff. We talked for almost two hours.
He was super gracious with his time. Really was
very open, and it was great. I think you're going
to really get a lot out of it. They kind of lived
the czar, kind of lived the tale of the one -hit
wonder. I got to see them open for a band called
Marvelous 3. We talk about that. We talk about
the beast of the major label and the music industry.
Talk about perseverance. I really enjoyed this
talk. I think you're going to as well. Thanks
for tuning in. Here's my talk with Jeff Whalen.
I'm only seeing you, not myself, but I can fix
that. I can see you. Okay. Okay. I'm trying to
get it to where I've got. Both of us on camera.
I'm not sure if I'm going to release this as
a video or not. I haven't done a video podcast
before. I've actually done all of them in person.
This is the first time I've done one remotely.
Where are you? I'm in Tallahassee, Florida. Yeah,
yeah. I've done a lot of my interviews in Athens,
Georgia, though. I've been traveling up there
to do a lot of these. Cool. Thank you for having
me on. It's kind of a hub. culture up there,
so there's a lot going on, a lot of people I
can talk to. Awesome. I'm sure there's people
in L .A. you can talk to if you ever decide to
take a visit out here. A couple of the people
that I just talked to last month used to live
out there for a couple of years, or for a decade.
Laura Wiggins was on Shameless for several seasons.
She played Karen. And then Jonathan Spencer.
And we're rolling now, so we'll just keep going.
Oh, this is on. This is live. Yeah. We're not
like, we're not like on the air anywhere. I can
edit anything later, but yeah, I'm recording
everything. We're good to go. All right. No,
sometimes you do interviews and you do all this
great stuff, like at the top. And then they go,
all right, we're about to get going. I'm like,
no, it was gold. I will just say I'm here with
Jeff Whalen from, I know you from a band called
Czar, who I have listened to. continuously since
since I was a teenager awesome and we'll talk
about that a little bit at some point in my my
introduction to y 'all but I'm actually really
curious what else you do and what if there are
other bands other artistic projects I haven't
really found yeah I don't really do a lot of
research necessarily before my interviews especially
Nor do I. I just get up there and make it all
up as we go. Perfect. Yeah, yeah. I like to have
an organic conversation. But if I'm interviewing
somebody that I haven't interacted with at all
or had any experience, of course I'll check on
some things. But I'm actually really familiar
with some aspects of your work. I just want to
know more about what else you do. Okay. Okay,
so yes. My kind of my first. Such as it was.
My first major label thing was the band Tsar.
T -S -A -R. We have to spell it even now. We
picked the worst band name in the world. We didn't
know. We thought it was rad. We thought it was
going to be great. But it's a word that nobody
knows it apparently. Which was a surprise to
me. So that came out. We had two albums. That
was in the early 2000s. The Ots. Then, since
then, I did a solo album. I made two albums with
my college band. That was a lot of fun. And then
recently completed this other thing, which is
called the Monster Squad, which is, let's call
it like a bubblegum group, like a 60s bubblegum
group. Where we're all like old -time movie monsters
living the life kind of like the Monkees TV show.
And that should be coming out, I'm hoping, sometime
before Halloween. I don't know. There's various
reasons why it wouldn't. But that's all finished
and ready to come out whenever we can make that
happen. And what was the title of that again?
That's called The Monster Squad. The Monster
Squad. Okay, awesome. I'm the mummy. There's
Dracula. There's the Wolfman. There's Frankenstein.
And laughs. And you're a band. Yeah, we're a
band trying to make it in Hollywood. Like the
monkeys. We all live in an apartment together.
It started as the idea was supposed to be like
a TV show. And we went to a lot of different
TV networks and TV producers and stuff. We got
a production deal. Things were looking up for
a minute, but then it didn't happen. And so then
since then, I've just been trying to finish the
record, which was my main thing about it, which
was this kind of bubblegum. Because in my heart,
maybe, in my heart of hearts, is I'm a bubblegum
guy. I'm a lot of things. And anybody worth a
darn is many things inside. Yeah, yeah. But one
of the ones that I am inside is a bubblegum guy.
And expressing and exploring those tropes is
meaningful to me in ways that I cannot explain.
I think I can definitely see that in the music
of yours that I know and love. Let me ask you
the same question that I start with everybody
because this leads nicely into it. What's the
first song that you remember loving as a child?
Being inquisitive about is a good way that I
think Jay Gonzalez put it. to me when I asked
him that. Do you remember? I do know that as
a kid, like a little guy, and I don't know if
we're doing video, but I'm indicating a small
-sized person. It was probably I've been working
on the railroad. Apparently, I love to listen
to that song. I love to hear people sing it.
I love to sing it. I've been working on the railroad
all the live long day. also is very into bingo
ngo is like a hook of the top top level to me
clapping hook spelling hook is it these spoke
to me as a little guy but in terms of first like
pop song or song on the radio or song that i
like was i was really into little willie by the
suite um which i don't Even now, I'm not sure
what it's about. I have theories about what it's
about. And at the time, because a lot of pop
songs, you grow up and you think, ooh, it's about
that, I think. And that was one later I thought
it was about something else. But as a kid, I
just thought it was about, like, a kid named
Little Willie who was causing problems. I think
one thing that's... is like a signifier of a
great song or just great art in general is like
when the meaning changes with you as you grow
ah the example i always use is like the sopranos
like i was like in college when the sopranos
was on so i was i was like into the ultra violence
and the gangster and then i re -watched it again
as an older but more mature human being and you
realize he's the villain. He's actually not anything
to look up to at all. And great songs, you ascribe
your own meaning to them anyway. Are you talking
about that as you mature, the thing seems different
to you? Is that what you're talking about? I
think it's both, right? I think it's both that
and also... The meaning is abstract to begin
with anyway. The songwriter might always have
an intention when they write a song, but once
they put it out there, that doesn't really mean
that much anymore, I think. As much as they might
want it to, people are going to put their own
meaning on it, no matter what. And I think great
art is, whether it's a song or a TV show or a
movie or even a game, It's something that, like,
that you're, what you're putting onto it, like,
changes as you change. And it doesn't, it's fluid.
And it, in a way that, like, maybe that song
when you were a kid was just, like, a fun pop
song. Maybe later it became something more meaningful.
Or even maybe something, like, you're like, oh,
maybe that's a cautionary tale. Just depending
on the song. I don't know if Little Willie did
all those things for me. But I know what you
mean. I, a few years ago, went for a late night
walk. And I left the CD player on, because I
have a CD player. I put it on, like, it's a five
disker, that kind. Remember that kind? Yeah,
yeah. And I had various discs in there. I didn't
even remember what I had in there, but I just
hit play and I went for a walk. I was gone for
an hour or something. And I came back and as
I came in, it was God by John Lennon. The last
song or basically the last song on Plastic Ono
Band, his first solo album. And this is when
you're in high school and they go, oh, Plastic
Ono Band is so great. You're in college and you're
going around telling people, oh, yeah, Plastic
Ono Band is so great. Because you've been told
that it is. But you're a fan of the Beatles and,
like, the kind of the youthful energy of the
Beatles. That kind of, like, unhinged creativity
of the Beatles is what's exciting to you. And
then you get to Plastic Ono Band, which has this
kind of really simplistic instrumentation. I
don't know if you know the record. Yeah, it's
one of my all -time favorites. So it's known
as, like, his Primal Scream record. Yeah. and
so you act like you like it or you act like you
understand it but you're like 20 you don't know
what the fuck he's talking about this guy and
so for whatever reason the song i had heard dozens
and dozens if not hundreds of times i come in
from the walk and now i'm older now and and he's
laying out this thing of what he fucking doesn't
believe and He's this guy's John Lennon. And
I was somehow like so overwhelmed for the first
time with the meaning of what he was putting
forth here is that he did all this stuff and
he doesn't believe in fucking anything. He doesn't
believe in anything. And he's alone. And then
like, he goes, it just believes in me. And then
like, you can see like Yoko on the piano bench,
like he goes, okay, Yoko and me, he includes
her, but really he's saying. After all that,
he believes in nothing, and he's alone. And for
whatever, when you listen to that when you're
17, you can't get crushed by it. You can't get
crushed by that. You listen to that later, and
you just get swamped. It was like a tsunami of
feeling overcame me in a way. It was like a once
-in -a -lifetime listen to that song. I can't
put it on now and have that same experience,
but it was such a once -in -a -lifetime experience.
of listening to a song where it's enormity got
me once. Yeah, I totally get what you mean. When
was the first time you really felt, like, overwhelmed
by a song like that? Maybe not to that scale,
but really connected emotionally with a song?
The first time. I don't know. What do you still
remember? I feel like I... There were definitely
times when I felt transported in some kind of
way. A lot of it was different than listening
to God in the sense that I wasn't aware consciously
of what was happening to me. So when I was a
little kid, I was raised in this kind of extreme
Christianity. a milieu which would be now referred
to as maga or i had that kind of family that
kind of childhood and a really kind of extreme
form of a christianity really based on hell really
based on punishment really based on the fire
and brimstones on sin and stuff you can do your
best but you're probably not gonna make it and
anyway the rapture's coming so you're fucked
anyway and you're like 10. So I had this, like,
radio, and it was shaped like Superman, right?
It was, like, the top part of Superman. I don't
know if we're on video, but I'm... Yeah, yeah,
yeah. So this will... I think we'll probably
release it both ways, so there'll be an audio
-only version, and I'll put the video up, too,
if you're going to, yeah. It's not important
to see the shape, but anyway, it was, like...
So I had this AM radio, and I was, like... Zooming
it around the dial. I think it was AM. Because
the next thing that happened was I found myself
going past Back in Black by ACDC, right? And
I knew it was satanic. There wasn't any confusion
on my part. I had been to many youth services
where they talked about backward basking or just
devil's message and rock and roll. Here's ACDC,
one of the main offenders of the genre. But I
was like, I felt like I was pinned like a butterfly
to a box or whatever. And I could not change
the channel. And I was like, what? And I could
feel the power of Satan, or whatever it was,
coursing through me. And I tried to fight it
off, man. I tried to fight it off, but the power
of rock and roll. or whatever. It was too, it
was too much. It was too much for me. And it
was like an emotional, spiritual, I don't know
what kind of thing it was, but it was scary.
It was exhilarating. I didn't tell anybody about
it. It was, it was like one of those things.
So I'd say that that's the first time that kind
of thing happened to me. Yeah. No, that's awesome.
I would honestly like, this is not blowing smoke.
I would say that your first record, Did that
to me as a teenager. Oh, no. Fuck yeah, man.
No, so I got to see you open for a band called
The Marvelous Three several times. Several times.
Me and my friends, like, my friends were all
in college, and they, like, kidnapped me with
my mom's permission. And we, like, followed you
for, like, five days from Charleston. I don't
even remember what days were. But I saw you several
times. The moment I remember, I'm almost positive
you were there for in Pensacola. Okay. Where
I end up in the bathroom. And I actually was
there the day that Butch, like, tore his Achilles
tendon. Okay. I just happened to be at that show.
And I told him about it in the bathroom in Pensacola.
And he, like, pulled it. He, like, showed me
his scar. Oh, wow. And then he starts singing
Allison in the bathroom. And you walked in, and
I'm pretty sure you started Allison by Elvis
Costello. And I'm pretty sure I have a very,
like, vivid memory of the two of y 'all, like,
singing Allison in the bathroom. Him with one
boot on, by the way. I don't remember that, but
in no way do I doubt it. I do doubt it even slightly,
yeah. But it was just, like, it was, like, my
favorite band talks a lot about how rock and
roll saved their life as a teenager, and, like,
y 'all were one of those bands for me, and it
was just that unexhilarating, I almost think
of it as, like, controlled chaos, because it
is a little scary, but you're also, like, you're
going to survive it. You might get damaged. Something
happens. I mean, these things are transformational.
And it took me a long time to get, and I'm not,
to get through my kind of Christian upbringing.
And rock and roll was like essential for that.
Because it's, you read about, you hear about
like John Lennon and his like bigger than God
thing or whatever. And you start having theories
about it. theory about that's why they called
their label Apple, because it was like the apple
from Adam and Eve, and it's like the fruit of
knowledge, and they can set you free from this,
I don't know, religious tyranny. It doesn't really
do that, but it was important for me to trade
kind of the nonsense of Christianity for the,
I think, preferable nonsense of rock and roll.
It's also interesting when you discover something
that you love immediately, that takes you over
like that. But it's something that you've been
told is wrong your whole life. What did that
feel like? Do you remember how... It was a process.
Because on the one hand, as when you're a kid,
rock and roll is... oh they must be like on so
much drugs they don't know what's going on and
then but then as it's presented to you at church
or wherever about how like you take the back
cover and you put a mirror here and you look
at it you can see that and like it has all this
meaning all these symbols all this like stuff
backwards it's like the most meaning in the world
is being put on into these records and like that
it had a whole hierarchy of things how things
worked It was very interesting to me. I have
no doubt that the way that it was presented to
me is having so much power, having so much intricate
meaning, that these things ultimately were attractive
to me as much as they were cautionary. Once I,
like, my mom divorced this Canadian dude that
she was marrying. We got, for the first time,
could listen to, like, rock music. We could keep
it, like, down. We could watch TV. That was for
the first time. And then I had a friend who was
really knowledgeable about music. And so it took
me a while. What's that? Was that friend like
a little older than you? Yeah, only like a year
or something. But yeah. Yeah, but usually the
trend I found is it's always like an older brother
or like an older friend. Like somebody that's
like just a little bit. Yeah. Way cooler than
me for sure. Right, right. I remember because
I... He was the first person that told me that
the Beatles version of Helter Skelter was heavier
than the Motley Crue version of Helter Skelter.
And I was like, that concept was just so bizarre
to me. But you're like 13 and you go, wow, the
Beatles are heavier than Motley Crue. Wow. And
I think it took me a long time to realize how
heavy czar really can get sometimes. No, really.
It was like when I was. When I was a teenager,
it was like poppy. And it is. It's like definitely
got like that bubblegum pop thing that you were
talking about. But especially I've been listening
to it. And I never stopped. I remember last year
I was driving back from New Orleans with a buddy
of mine. And you hadn't even announced this reissue
or anything. And I was like, man, check this
band out. And he loved it, man. We listened to
the whole record on the way back. But I've been
listening to it again on vinyl. Cool. And first
of all, it ages amazingly well. Great. That's
great to hear. And so does Band Girls Money,
I think. You know, sometimes you go back and
you listen to the music that you were into as
a teenager and you're like, ooh, fuck. And I've
experienced that occasionally. Sure. But it's
really not. Give me an example of what you mean
where you went back and you went, ooh. Oh, gosh.
I had LeBiscuit's Significant Other, man. But
I'm from Florida, and it had a ProAdvisor sticker.
You can't skip that, man. You can't skip that.
Whenever I go back, I'm always like, I was always
like, I was right. I'm 99. I will say most of
the time I have. I went and saw Marvelous 3 at
their reunion show last year, and fuck yeah,
I was right about that. They're insane, yeah.
Most of the music I loved as a kid, Ben Folds
was somebody I was really into as a kid. Ben
Folds 5 and his solo stuff. He's proved me right
plenty of times. So I think most of the time
that's true for me too. I can't really think
of another example, and I probably got that CD
because I ended up working in the store that
I bought it at. I remember where I bought it,
but it was... Most of the appeal at that time
was it had a parental advisory sticker on it.
Like, it was something our parents didn't want
us to listen to. The Matrix soundtrack, I think
I bought for the same reason. But that record
fucking rules. I've never even heard it. Yeah,
I'll check that out. Yeah, the original Matrix
soundtrack has some really good songs on it.
I'm not going to lie. It's fucking good. The
South Park movie, I was obsessed with that soundtrack,
too. I don't think I've ever even seen that movie.
Oh, gosh. I don't know. I don't know if your
upbringing can handle it, Jeff. Look, I'm a Simpsons
guy. Always was. South Park. It's kind of like
the Beatles or the Stones. Simpsons or South
Park. And, yeah, some people can do both a little
bit, but everybody's always got a preference
of one or the other. So when did you start? Realizing
you wanted to write songs, and when did you start
writing songs? Instead of just being like, I
love music, when you were like, I want to make
music. I was a freshman in college, and if there's
somebody in England listening to this, I was
in university, in uni. Right, yes. And I had
been told a bunch that you can do whatever you
want to do in your life. And we were on acid.
I guess I took that as a permission to take acid.
And me and some friends, and I was running around
this park, and I had long hair for the first
time. And as I was running, kind of the hair
was like kind of flopping on my shoulders a little
bit. And I said, you can do whatever you want.
What do you want to do? And I said, I want to
rock. And I came back to my friends. And I said,
I want to be a musician. And they said, oh. So
I told my dad I wanted a guitar. And for my 18th
birthday, he sent me a guitar, a really cheap
acoustic guitar, and a cake. And a cake, and
I don't know, it had a bullet on the top of the
cake. I was 18, because I was 18, and a book
with a bullet referenced. Do you know that song?
18 with a bullet? I don't think that I do. Okay.
Maybe if I heard it. It's a 70s almost novelty
song with a lot of puns about records and relationships.
But it's more like a throwback to early 60s kind
of song. Anyway, he sent me a guitar and a cake
with a bullet in it. And I started learning how
to play guitar through... I got a Beatles songbook
and it had a picture of the chords that you can
make. And I would like, that's how I learned
how to make the chords. You put your fingers
in that shape and the Beatles in those books
use a lot of sevens. So like for the first couple
of years, when I would write songs, I'd have
a lot of sevens in them because I knew how to
make those chords and the Beatles used them all
the time. But, and now I forget to put sevens
in. And I wonder, cause like, I thought that
would be really great. teacher of how, like,
songs are put together, how chord progressions
work, all that kind of stuff. And it really was
helpful, but it took me a long time to stop making
so many, to stop putting so many sevens into
my song. And now you said you forget now. I forget
to put sevens in. I go, G. And I go, no, don't
you mean G, seven? Like, the only thing I routinely
do is B seven for whatever reason, which that's,
like, the hardest one to make. I don't know.
So did you... Are you entirely self -taught,
or did you eventually get music lessons of some
sort? I played cello and French horn in elementary
school, so I did have that. So you had some music
theory a little bit? A little bit. I can read
music extremely slowly, you know what I mean?
If you were to give me your new symphony, I would
look at it. I couldn't be one of those guys who
goes, this is brilliant. I'd have to, like...
Right. Yeah, no, I sing in a choir, and that's
about my level of, like, music knowledge. I feel
like that's probably where you were when you
left elementary school. Yeah. Yeah. And so much...
I wish that I had more of those older friends
then, say, like, at the beginning of college.
I wish I had more cooler... dudes that were in
bands to like show us how to do it because we
like just we're just like friends that like let's
try this and and i wish that there had been a
larger group of cooler kids showing the younger
kids how to do it or maybe i don't wish that
i don't know but we didn't have that and so like
the first time we ever played in college whatever
we had like the vocals and two guitars coming
out of the same amp because it had four inputs
This thing can take four things. Not realizing
that it only would do whatever the loudest one
was at the time. Oh, gotcha. So where did you
grow up, Jeff? Long Beach, California. And where
were you in university at the time? UC Santa
Barbara. Okay. So did you just start a band right
then? You took a trip and you're like, I'm going
to be a musician. And did you basically just...
Start a band the next day. Did you already have
it? I didn't know how to play anything. I didn't
have a guitar or anything. Yeah. I should also
mention that they're in the dorms. And I'm going
to add, people take drugs in college. I hope
that's okay for me to mention that. Absolutely.
We're a big, especially of the psychedelic sort.
Yeah. We're big advocates and friends of psychedelics
on this podcast. Okay. I don't know if you can
share. They can be very therapeutic, and there's
a lot of benefits. And trippy. Don't forget trippy.
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing is they have their
place in making us better people, but they're
also really fun. Also gets you high. Yeah. Anyway,
I don't know if this is a psychedelic, but this
was marijuana. Technically, yes. It was very
new to me, and I was in my friend's dorm room
down the hall from mine. and he had an electric
guitar and it wasn't plugged in i didn't know
how to play it and um he he put on the help soundtrack
by the beatles and then he's i'll be right back
and he left to go i don't know where he went
to the bathroom or something i was either about
10 minutes by myself and i had the electric guitar
and it wasn't plugged in it can make some noise
i didn't know how to make any of the chords but
like for the first three songs and the beatles
a help soundtrack i was like acting like i was
I was a teenage Stone person, and I was acting
like I was in the Beatles, and I really liked
it. I really responded to it, and I really wanted
to do it. Now, it's not that easy, obviously,
to just get Stone and start playing. It's a long
way to the top. It's a long way to the top if
you want to rock and roll. You start learning
how and everything, and then... I worked at the
college newspaper there at UC Santa Barbara,
The Daily Nexus. And so a bunch of people there,
Jeff Solomon, who became the bass player, Czar,
and a few other people there. We formed a band
called The Brother Steve, which was the band
that we came up with a couple albums a couple
years ago. And then we really had a good time.
playing and seeing this other band that was called
The Wonderfuls, and that had the drummer was
Steve Coulter, who later was in Czar, and the
bass player was Dane Kern, who became the lead
guitar player in Czar, and then a couple other
people in that group that we also, so we were
in, like, a lot of different crossover bands
with a lot of different themes, sometimes just
for a couple shows. I definitely remember hearing
about the Brothers Steve back in the day. That
was part of the mythology or the lore, yeah.
So that's How it happened, and in UC Santa Barbara,
I don't know if this has made it out all the
way to Florida, but it's a party school. And
even now, when people find out that I went to
UC Santa Barbara, it's like the second question
they ask is, is it a party school? And I say,
yes, it is. And there's this town where it's
like almost all students live. It's called Isla
Vista. And I don't know what it's like now, but
back then, in the 90s, anybody could... you would
just walk down the street and there would be
bands playing kegs and you just wander in and
here's to watch some band and it was like that
and i was surprised by how good the songs were
from these bands and they were all just almost
all originals there was maybe a few cover bands
but it was mostly like like themed bands trying
to sound like i don't know the pixies or Whatever
kind of thing was happening. It was very indie,
very artsy, and a lot of fun. And maybe I didn't
appreciate it enough, although I appreciated
it quite a lot at the time. Were you writing
songs before you knew how to play them? Oh, I
would only play Beatles songs and songs I wrote
myself, yes. But as you were learning to play,
were you finding you were writing more than you
could? play or was it you were writing like and
being able to play it like in parallel did your
guitar playing limit your songwriting oh absolutely
there i would at first i would write songs that
had pauses in them so i could rearrange my fingers
to the next chord that takes a long time and
i'm not like my fingers don't bend the right
way as they say no one says that but that's what
happens but And I did not do the high school,
come home after school, do scales for two hours
thing. I did not do any of that stuff. I had
no readiness at all for performing live. But
luckily, the scene was such that that was an
optional thing. And at the time, I had a theory
that it hasn't changed. which is like the only
two things that a band needs, the only two requirements
that it must have are that it has good songs
and that they're cool. In whatever way they're
cool, it doesn't matter. It can be a wide range,
but any kind of expert musicianship or anything
else is optional. It can be a good add -on. It
can be, but it's not essential. Yeah, I think,
yeah. It's all about feeling, right? At what
age were you guys signed? And when did the band
solidify as Czar? And did that happen as part
of the... How did all that go down? Because it
sounds like you were pretty young. I don't think
that you're that much older than me. I just think
that I just happened to catch you when you were
really young. Yeah. No, I think we were in our
20s. It wasn't like... And we had definitely...
Like, Steve had already been signed in this band
called Bridal High. I remember that band a little
bit, yeah. And we had all, like, from college.
I lived in Prague for a couple years, and people
were living in San Francisco. And then when Dan
and I, Dan was living in Chico. I'm saying places.
I don't know if anybody knows where they are.
They have Google Maps. It's fine. Yeah, come
on, guys. So he moved down to LA when I came
back from Prague and we were going to form this
band. And bit by bit, we got it together. We
had a few different players at first, but it
all came together with the crew that we already
knew each other really well. And we're just friends.
It was like when we started playing. Like it
had only been Toiling in Obscurity as that's
the default thing. And something happened and
I don't know what it was, but suddenly we were
confident. We were almost like, it was like,
oh my God, this is easy. And like we would play
and people would come and I don't know what happened.
I don't know what the thing was. But like seemingly
in like just a few weeks time, we became really.
hot in town and and suddenly we had management
labels after us within just which is which is
literally weeks so was that something that you
were like hesitant about about how it came on
or were you just super excited about it all super
excited like it was transformational it was and
like just to bring it back to drugs there this
like the first time you take acid or mushrooms
whatever you might have an expectation as i did
that like i would go into another world and not
necessarily a yellow submarine kind of world
but like some kind of thing and that but it's
not like that it's like you see patterns or you
see whatever but and it's definitely psychedelic
but it's not like this other world yeah you don't
see anything that isn't there in some form i
think i feel like experiences differ a little
bit on that too but You don't see apparitions.
No, you don't see apparitions. Yeah. Me and a
friend definitely watched still figures on this
towel that were like, it was a running guy. And
we watched them race. Yeah. For a while. Yes,
I believe that 100%. Oh, no. This guy, can you
believe this guy? He's catching up. Don't do
drugs, kids. They're not fun. I thought that,
I didn't think this, I just hoped this or expected
this, that there would be some sort of transformation
when the band got signed and put out records
or whatever. I thought that would be like, it
would be a transformational experience where
then life would be different and I wouldn't be
the person that I was before. Or that I would
be, but some kind of special version of it or
something. I don't really know. None of that
happened. I don't know. how I thought it would
happen or it wasn't conscious but it was an expectation
and I thought that like I don't know I thought
something would happen and it's not like that
and and there is you can watch people race or
whatever but it's not happening so yeah I I wanted
to happen and it didn't happen and so I wish
that I had more focused on that not happening,
but that's where I was, and that's what I was
thinking. How much control did you have over
this first record? Did you feel like you got
to? Because I've heard this story a million times
where the band gets signed, and at the end of
the day, they don't get to put out the record
that they really wanted to put out. i as a fan
think this is a record to be really proud of
and i think y 'all probably feel that way on
some level too or you wouldn't have been i feel
like y 'all were instrumental in the reissue
on some level right yeah and vocal i don't think
like i don't think that it's just like somebody
else was like hey no offense no it's a really
weird thing because we we had like when that
record came out i was so excited I was so convinced
that we had done it, that here is this album.
The only problem, is it too good? Did we make
an album that was too good? Seriously, I've had
some half -serious conversations along those
lines. For those listening that haven't heard
it, it's a fantastic fucking record to this day.
It really is. And so I was really surprised when
it came out and people would say that it was
overproduced, which there was like, and I've
said this in a bunch of interviews, but there
was like maybe a year plus period where I had
at least one conversation about whether it was
overproduced every day, sometimes multiple. And
somebody told that to me across the street once.
I was walking in Hollywood and somebody goes,
hey, you're in Czar. And I go, yeah. And they
go. your record's overproduced and i go okay
it was like that and i didn't know that because
we made this on tape we were not everything that's
on there we did it's not tuned there's no copy
paste going on there's none of that and we just
and when it would sound like to me like it wasn't
right we would just do it again and double everything
and we just did work work on it and and then
When it came out, people who were used to us
live, which it's not like that, it's like a much
more unhinged, crazy, mistakes aplenty, more,
what's happening, oh my God, experience rather
than more of a, we had more comparisons to like
Boston's first album than I expected. Or even
the occasional Starship. It sounds like knee
deep in the hoopla to somebody when we were going
for this, like sex pistols meets the cars or
I don't even know what we were like. I don't
think I'd ever heard anything like it. Oh, I
was, I think I was like 15, but I really, at
that point it, it knocked me on my ass. Like
I was like, and I'm still not sure what I would
compare it to. Like really. And I'm really surprised
to hear you say overproduced. I don't think it
has that reputation so much now. What's really
weird is that at the time... Yeah, I've never
even heard that in my head. Yeah. At the time,
we were fighting to not be considered hair metal
or glam band, which is so weird to me. I remember
my brother at the time said only a glam band
would spend so much time denying they're a glam
band. but it was like that where and the thing
is no one says that now now i think if you look
at it we're a power pop band and nobody was saying
that at the time no one said here comes some
power pop it was all like is this glam that was
the question yeah i think power pop is what i
would if somebody asked me what y 'all were yeah
that's what i would call it too yeah One thing
that I think maybe people, and this actually,
I think goes back to what you were saying a second
ago about, was it too good? It never, I've never
thought it sounded overproduced, but what I have
always thought was it sounded like it was futuristic.
Awesome. Like it was like something like teleported
to us. And it's still, what's interesting is
it still has that like. You listen to it now,
even on vinyl, like you're listening to it on
like a retro medium. Yeah. And it still sounds
futuristic. And I wonder, maybe that's, maybe
that's what they missed. Like, maybe that's what
they were like, Oh, overproduced, but I don't
have the right word for it. No, that is so interesting
that you say that because I, at the time, and
this is again, like I had friends that were making
records. at the same time we were. And one in
particular was, just to put this in the temporal
context of what else was going on, was that there
was a lot of scratching going on. There was a
lot of scratching going on even in rock music
at the time. And that I had a friend tell me
that I got to get with the times because scratching
is now just another kind of drum fill. It's just
an integral part. It's just another thing. And
I'm like, no, I want to make a record that's
timeless, that no one would know when it was
recorded, and no one could say what time it was
anchored to. So I'm really happy to hear you
say that. I think you achieved that 100%. Thank
you very much. Now, I want to say just one more
thing about the record versus us live, which
is at the time, it was very common for people
to... If they saw us first and then bought the
record, they were disappointed with the record.
But if they bought the record first and then
saw us, then they were okay. But it was like,
they didn't expect us to be so punk rock on stage,
but it was weird. I would see people get really
excited and then get the record and then go,
huh. That's really interesting because I think
I heard the record first, but only once on the
drive up. Okay. To see the first show, first
time I saw you, like, my friend that kidnapped
me. And I think it was Atlanta, like, maybe was
the first time. If that was with the Marvelous
Three, then that was, like, a crazy show, right,
as I remember. Yeah, and all that whole tour
was crazy. Oh, awesome. It was, yeah, it was
mayhem. And from the first note of y 'all. And
so I think for me, I actually. I heard the record
once, right? Then saw you live. Then probably
listened to the record like two or three times
on the drive to the next show and saw you again
the next day or two days later. And so I had
this like layering of hearing the record, seeing
you live where I'm not even sure now I can remember.
What was different about listening? Because it's
like listening to the record teleports me back
to your show in a way. I'd love to hear more
about the differences you think between the record
and what you sounded like live. Other than just
like more mistakes or sloppier. I think like
that whole tour was a little sloppy. But at scale.
But it was at scale. Like we might do a song.
We might do. We were. like the bands that we
were really influenced by in terms of like our
live thing where these bands were like you didn't
know what was going to happen next right there
was like thoughts about if you're going to be
playing guitar you shouldn't be so comfortable
like to do a show where you didn't make a mistake
was like you weren't doing your job right you
should always be like right there at the edge
of your ability right and and so with some things
we were doing that but some of our like harmony
ability or some of our other things are we should
maybe not be doing that at the edge of our of
our of what it was what was possible we should
maybe be a little more reliable but that said
i mean you get out there and whatever happens
and i think that i know i had a different idea
of what the life thing that is that's a moment
that you put out and then the album is something
that is permanent that kind of exists always
the same way and they that they're two different
forms and they shouldn't be necessarily have
the same values a lot of like famous live albums
turned out to be that they they're not live at
all or only a little bit live and so i think
that i really don't know but i know that our
energy is is sloppy and punky live and that The
record is polished, and we do the same thing
every time. I was going to say, but the record's
still very raw. Oh, awesome! I'm so glad to hear
that, because we really tried really hard. I
remember, and this is something I've thought
about a lot since, is we tried really hard on
that record. I didn't want to say to myself later,
Why didn't you try harder? Or why didn't you
got to make an album and you didn't try your
best? What are you doing? So I really tried my
best and really worked. Did y 'all get full creative
control or did you get some pushback from the
label about certain aspects? With that in mind,
it was produced by this guy, Rob Cavallo, right?
Who was at the time probably most famous for
Green Day. maybe the Goo Goo Dolls, but mostly
Green Day at that time. And I remember we were
having lunch as we were getting signed. We were
having lunch with the band and our managers and
some people from the label. And he leaned over
to me and he said, so you just want to do, we'll
just plug you in and let you guys go, right?
And I go, no, let's do a produced album. And
he goes, you want to do a produced album? I go,
yeah, let's make like. a produced album like
they used to. And he goes, huh, interesting.
I thought I was just going to plug you in and
let you go. And I'm like, oh, let's make it produced.
And he goes, oh, okay. So if anything, they wanted
to push us in a more Green Day -ish kind of direction.
Yeah, almost like a Steve Albini type recording.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I wanted to make a 70s
record. Oh, yeah. I'm glad you didn't get a lot
of pushback there. No, and then... Honestly,
if anything, Rob was supportive, but wasn't there
a lot. So it was weird because we didn't get
a lot of pressure to finish up or whatever. They
gave us a lot of time in the studio, but then
a lot of it was just us and the engineer, Ken
Allardyce, where we wouldn't hear from the producer
for weeks. Or one time we came to the studio
and he was in there with Lisa Bonet. And, oh,
can you guys come back at 2? Because he's in
there with Lisa Bonet. I'm like, this is our
recording right now. They go, he's in there with
Lisa Bonet. Wow. That's wild. So was that the
first tour? Was that the first, when that record
came out at least? Maybe not the Marvelous 3
tour, but was that the first time you toured
as a musician? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The first time,
no, the first tour we ever went on was with.
It rained that summer. Oh, my God. And then the
second tour was the Marvelous 3 tour. Okay. So,
yeah, we had never... We drove to... I think
the first show was in Texas. And we got out of
the van and started unloading the stuff out of
the van in Texas. At the Dallas whatever. Because
you didn't have roadies or anything. Like, it
was just... This is what happened. And then these
like union guys, these teamsters or whatever,
come up and say, no, you guys aren't allowed
to move your equipment. And we're like, we're
not allowed to move our own equipment. Oh my
God. And so, and then cut to two shows later
and we're very comfortable with that. But we
had no experience with it. The idea of any of
it, it was like a dream. And, and I know that
I don't think that the, duran tour did much or
it certainly not didn't do much positive for
our outlook but it was great it was so fun it
was like going on tour and i loved duran and
like you just go from like clubs to that and
and then your records coming out because it came
out while we're on tour with them and it's a
highly recommended i would highly recommend that
experience Honestly. If you ever get a chance
to tour with Duran and have your record come
out at the same time, then do that thing for
sure. Do it. Yeah, do it. It might hurt your
career, but it's a lot of fun. What do you think
was like disheartening or maybe hurtful about
it in terms of your career? They're like a band
that is in like its greatest hits era by then.
Yeah. And the people going to those shows are
paying. more money than they would to see us
in a club. So say somebody did want to come see
us as we come through town, right? Then they
got to pay, say, 70 bucks or whatever it was
back then to see us, play a short set. And then
say you came to see Duran. By then, at that time,
maybe if it was 1983 or something, you'd go,
oh, maybe the opener's going to be cool. But
by the 2000s, you're seeing Duran. You just want
to see Hungry Like the Wolf and stuff and not,
you're not like going, hey, maybe the opener
is going to be this really cool band. Were you
playing with the lights on or did they turn off
the, do you remember? I'm sure you remember.
Yeah, about half. It was summertime. A lot of
these, almost all of them were like outdoor amphitheater
kind of guys. So it was still light outside for
a lot of them. It seemed like a lot of them were
also at or near amusement parks. It was like,
I don't know. You'd come out and they go, you're
all right. But then you realize that was actually
just the roller coaster. But it was great. And
playing for big audiences is a lot easier than
playing for small audiences. So like you could
really just go, what's going on this side? And
they go, I can't hear the people in the back.
That's easy. How did all that change with your
second tour with The Marvelous Three, which was
the first time I ever... But I feel like by then,
you knew... First of all, you guys knew what
the fuck you were doing, right? Like, you had
been... You had it dialed in in terms of your
showmanship. Yeah. The Marvelous Three tour was
a really interesting one for us because I remember
us feeling, like, confident about our stage show.
And I remember, like... In LA, people would not...
They wouldn't want to play after us, right? So
we got cocky on that front. Like, we're so great,
right? And then the first night we went out and
we opened for Marvelous 3. And we're like, oh,
man. Totally not worried about being overshadowed
by the close of the headliner. And then about
20 minutes into their show, I remember turning
to our bass player, Gwendolyn. We have good songs.
They creamed us. Yeah. I've been, I've really
looked, and to go back to what we were talking
about earlier, man, like I've really lucked out
about some of the music that I've stumbled into
in my life. There's, they really are, I think
one of the greatest bands out of that time. And
their live shows were unmatched. Oh, it was ridiculous
to see them every night. It's like, I, you go
on tour with, Duran, and you watch them the first
two or three nights, and then by night five,
you're like, yeah, I got it. I don't need to
see them. I don't need to see the whole show
tonight. But Marvelous 3, you watched them every
night. Every night you watched them. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, they set the bar really high for me when
it came to, like, what... And the community and
the fan base, because I think... At least at
the shows I was into, the crowds were good to
y 'all. The crowds liked y 'all. The crowds were
not hanging out outside or whatever. They would
get there. And I think by the time, especially
by the time our shows, because message boards
were a thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think by
the time our shows came around, they weren't
the first shows of the tour. So we knew that
we were in for a good show the whole night. And,
yeah, I mean, that tour, I think, got you guys
a lot of fans. I think a lot of people that saw
you then would still be excited to see you now
and see you guys. That's great. I'm so happy
to hear that because that was the same experience
for us. So that's awesome. And I'm just lucked
out with communities. around bands and things
like that my whole life. The band I'm really,
that I've followed pretty much since, like, all
those bands broke up. Like, in 2005, I got into
a band called the Drive -By Truckers, and I've
seen them. Their songs, I think, are, like, really
different than a lot of what other people do,
but the community that they have around them
is, like, a big part of it, too. And the Marvelous
Three, they set the bar really high for me for
both live performances and for... band community
where it took a while for me to really be like
that excited about something again. Yeah, no,
it's, it's a really, it's the, the, the, the
devotion of those fans, like anytime they would
tour, you'd hear like everybody was taking a
month off to go follow or whatever. And it was
a community that, that it was fun. And you'd
get to the next place and you'd see like a lot
of the same people that were there last night.
And it was great. And they, Yeah, we definitely
felt accepted by that group. And there were other
tours where that didn't happen. So, like, the
next tour we went on, we opened for Eve Six.
I don't know if you remember Eve Six. Yeah, yeah.
Same tonight. Yeah. Dang, interesting. You cited
their second biggest hit. Oh, yeah, yeah. No
one knows the name of that song, though. I think
it's called Inside Out. I don't know. You're
right. But great guys. We really are still friends
with those guys. But it's their fans hated us.
Really? Hated us. Wow. I remember we played.
We opened for them in Poughkeepsie, New York.
And it was crowded and everything. And we opened
with Recalling All Destroyers into I Don't Want
to Break Up. And it was like seven minutes of.
absolute rock and roll we were sliding on our
knees we were harmonized guitar solos it was
like rock and roll and we slammed to a stop and
then there was like silence and then somebody
goes fags and i was just like damn what and so
like that and that whole tour was like that where
i hadn't been called thanks so much since eighth
grade So that actually leads me to a question
I wanted to ask you about. Like, you were somebody
that I think one thing that was attractive to
me about your band in general is y 'all definitely
didn't stick to, like, heteronormative stereotypes
or culture. Like, I remember you would wear this,
like, princess shirt a lot. And I think we even
had a little nickname for you. We called you
Princess behind your back. Yeah, I remember that.
But my point, though, is that. And Butch, I think,
was somebody that would, you could say, does
the same thing, but in a very glam rock way.
Sure. Where I felt like you weren't trying to
be anybody. Like you were just, and how true
is that? How much of that was like a persona
where I'm like, I want to consciously like bend
gender norms a little bit. And how much of that
was just like, hey, I like this shirt. I'm going
to wear this shirt. Yeah, no. That's a psychology
question that my therapist should have her on
next time. Brought to you by BetterHelp. H -E
-L -P. I would say, okay, so in the bands I like,
The Beatles maybe being an exception, there's
often a lot of that going on. Bowie, T -Rex,
just down the line. Exploring that thing is a
very typical thing for a rock band to do. Coming
from that point of view, I was following the
rock and roll tradition, right? Yeah, yeah. A
lot of this stuff, I wanted just the cliches.
I know that this is not particularly... I wanted
the cliches. I wanted a manager with a big old
cigar. Yeah, yeah. I wanted... I never did the
heroin addict thing and missed the boat on that.
Because it would have been... I assumed that
I would have the heroin album. And I assumed
I'd have the sober album after that. I assumed
that these were the things I was going to do.
But getting into that time was like coming out
of the 90s. Let me try to explain this the way
that I feel about it now. Coming out of the 90s,
I had... When you're a kid in the 80s and then
you're in college stuff in the 90s, you get used
to there being a lot of bands that are good.
You get used to an unlimited number of good bands
that you can dip into at your own leisure, at
your own whim. If you want to follow... you don't
appreciate it you don't like you don't think
you have it going good but until they like take
it all away but like at the time all the venues
closed down and no but you like you still look
forward to people's albums coming out and anyway
but at that time rock was just going down and
it wasn't really doing a lot of good stuff and
it was the rap metal it was the these things
coming in And what I would say is that maybe
a type of MAGA, a type of toxic masculinity that
is presented as like maybe funny or maybe as
not gay or something. Like people saw Fight Club
and it was like they didn't get the memo about
what that was really about. Oh, what's it about?
That book was like by a gay man, like an openly
gay comedian. Like he's, it's very like. making
fun of that hyper masculine heteronormative culture
that it's portraying but i think a lot of people
saw that movie and were like fuck yeah brad but
that's what started that limp biscuit right like
the that that hyper masculine macho which is
where i think like the eve six crowd reaction
started to come yeah so i and i think that's
It's kind of that Woodstock 99 kind of approach
to things, right? But the other side of that
was this boy band thing and post -Spice Girls
world. And I really liked that. I really liked
that music. I really liked the Spice Girls a
lot. You notice that's not what I said was my
guilty, like I went back and was wrong about
when you asked me. I had all that shit, man.
Yeah. No, I'm with you. I love that bullshit.
Yeah. And I remember that there was this store
at the Eagle Rock Mall in L .A. There's an area
called Eagle Rock. And there's two ways that
this rock looks like an eagle. It either looks
like an eagle in flight or it looks like an eagle's
face without a beak. And then if you want to
confuse people, you ask them, you'd say that
you think that it's called Eagle Rock because
it looks like Randy Meisner was a member of the
Eagles. Anyway, it doesn't matter. But there
was a mall there and it had a store called the
Dollar Dazzle and everything there was a dollar
and everything there was dazzling. And it was
all like glittery, like girly stuff or mostly
that. So I remember they had these bags of...
plastic hair clips for like toddlers right and
they had numbers and they had letters and you
would buy a whole pack because in there would
be like two that said 666 on them but like in
in like plastic pink plastic so i would wear
like 666 hair things in my hair i'd have a glittery
nail polish i have these very girly things which
i imagined or wanted or this was very sincere
i i liked wearing this stuff but i assumed it
was like it would be like the version of say
mark boland or something dressing like an early
70s because i remember i would try to look like
that for a while i remember i had this fur coat
and these really big sunglasses and like lipstick.
And I remember I was getting, I had a fur coat
and big sunglasses and lipstick on. And we were
about to go out for the evening to like rock
club. And the bass player said, you look like
my mother about to go shopping. Okay. Maybe that's,
I mean, they all switch it up. So I went more
in a girly kind of way that it was meant to like
gender band in the rock and roll tradition. It
was also sincere. I think you accomplished. And
I think by making it, like, sincere, it was your
own version of it instead of it looking like
you were trying to be, like, some other rock
god. Like, you were your own version. And I'm
not, like, I'm an ally, but I'm not, like, I'm
a straight dude. But I think that gender bending,
that heteronormative, like, I've always been.
Like, an outcast or, like, somebody that wasn't
going to, like, conform to that bullshit. The
hyper -masculine stuff, right? I really, I think
I, like, that was something. It was like, you
were still kicking ass, but you were wearing
a princess shirt and had glittery nail polish,
and I fucking loved it. Like, there was just
something about all of that that was, I think
you pulled it off. Thanks. You're making me remember
that. I remember at the time, do you know who
Raymond Chandler is? He's like a mystery writer
from the noir era, right? A little bit, yeah.
I think I've only read one of his books. His
main detective is Philip Marlowe, L .A. She came
into my office. And he's really funny, and he
uses a lot of really good slang in it. I was
reading an interview with him from back in the
40s or something, and he says with slang, either
do classic slang. Where like, it's not of an
era in particular or make it up yourself. Do
not do like the slang of the moment. Right. And
he said, either do classic or make it up yourself.
And so I, that's what my plan was with the look,
with my look was to either go classic or make
it up myself and not to do anything of the moment.
So that's where it was. It was definitely of
the moment, but not. Sure. Sure. Players was
huge, right? Like you. You looked like you walked
out of Eclair's in a cool way, though, right?
I think part of that, though, I'm wondering,
like, was that what allowed you to do it? The
fact that you're like, I'm a fucking rock star.
Like, now watch me dress however I want. Watch
me. I think that's part of it, right? It's like
this almost like I am whatever I want to be.
That's all we are anyway, and it's the story
that we tell. Some people would argue that life
is just like a performance for our own self,
right? We're telling a story to ourself. And
certainly I would like to not be a lot of the
things that I'm supposed to be or a lot of things
that being a human being is kind of default is
embarrassing, I think. Dumb all over, a little
ugly on the side, as Frank Zappa would say. Yeah.
and and presenting ourselves as a certain way
or whatever and trying to be that you know it's
like whatever persona you have on when you're
talking to your parents you're talking to some
people at work you're talking to your best friends
talk to girlfriend whatever you're doing it's
a slightly different presentation of who you
are right and so all of it is some level of performance
and i think i wanted perhaps there to be some
kind of breakthrough and become something else,
but I have yet to do that. I feel like I could
talk to you for hours. Sure. I don't know if
you have a little bit more time. I got a little
bit more time. I'm going to, I want to get, I
want to be right back though. That sounds perfect.
Yeah. I want to, I'm going to save what we got
and that way. Perfect. In case something happens.
Okay. I'll be right back. All right. Thank you
so much, Jeff. And we're back. Awesome. Thank
you for, first of all, just thank you for taking
the time to do this. This is awesome. I think
we're having a really cool conversation. Cool.
Awesome. Thanks for having me. I do take a historical
perspective. I have a background in history,
public history, and oral history is where I approach
these interviews. But I don't expect as much
of a deep dive as we went to the early years.
But can you bring us up to speed? What happened
with the second record? The second record comes
out. I was working in a record store at the time,
and we got a promo copy of it. And I didn't even
know that it was coming out or anything like
that. And I played that record all the time in
the store. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I love that
record, too. Were you bummed when you first heard
it? Because a lot of people were. Maybe, like...
the first or second time, but it grew on me fast,
if I will. Well, at least you gave it a third
spin after two disappointing ones. I didn't...
It wasn't like an overcorrection to what I was
saying before, or maybe not. I don't know. Who
knows these things? But, like, it was... As we
were playing more and more, like, shows, and
we were getting harder as we were playing, right?
We were getting more... like shove this guitar
down your throat kind of intensity in less power
pop or harmony or whatever kind of thing was.
And then the person who had signed us at Hollywood
Records left, and the new person that came in
really only believed us. He said he only believed
me when I was at the top of my range. Interesting.
And he said that there's an aspect of our band
that that the first record did not capture and
that the world had turned to face us. The world
had turned to face us more now. And that because
you had the kind of the rock is back movement
strokes and more garage stuff. Right. Yeah, for
sure. So let's embrace that side of czar because
that is a side of czar. Let's embrace that side
and have all the songs be like that. The white
stripes were huge at the time. Just for context.
Yeah, exactly. So I had written like a bunch
of songs and I was not really in a state of mind
to write a bunch of songs. Cause I was like bummed
out and depressed. And like the first album,
not doing anything. It didn't, it was widely
regarded as a flop. It was like, Yeah, commercially.
Yeah, for sure commercially. And maybe other
ways, too. No, I think critically, I think it
did really well. No, even critically, I, like,
there was, like, it was, some people championed
it, but there was a lot of two and a half stars
in the LA Times. A lot of that stuff where I
was like, and that still bums me out. Yeah. And,
like, I was just like, you're joking. What are
you talking about? I was going like, if this
is, I don't know how much better I can do. Honestly,
I don't have, that was a nice warmup. Here comes
the, here comes the real good one. I don't have
that. So I was like, I was like angry. Yeah.
And hopefully he had a good attitude about it,
but I was mad. And we, so we just kept playing
harder and harder. And then they recorded this
that way. And then. the people the very nice
people with really good taste or whatever who
had liked our first record then a lot of people
were like then they were bummed out that it was
not produced enough and i was like oh no oh no
because they don't sound that different to me
i don't think so in fact i listened to bang girls
money last night because it had been a minute
i don't listen to that one as much yeah yeah
i think and i think that part of that is just
like I never saw you guys live during that time.
I had black hair. Yeah, we had totally different
looks. Yeah, and I just didn't have a connection
to those songs live that I do a lot of the ones
on the first record. But I still think it's a
great record. I didn't turn it off. I didn't
skip any songs. I fucking was dancing around
my living room. It's got some really great shit
on it, man. Well, thanks. And I'm not here to
just blow smoke up your ass, but I do. think
that it sounds a little bit a little different
but i think it's weird when people have expectations
about what something is supposed to be when it's
not theirs yeah that's when people end up disappointed
and i think like my approach to just listening
to music in general was like it was different
enough for me to be like okay this is not the
same exact shit as the first record but I don't
know that disappointed would have ever been the
right word. Okay, that's good. I go back and
forth because all of these things are, like,
sides of the band, are sides of me. I really,
on some level, I really like the lyrics on Fan
Girl's mini album. They're funny to me. I like
the attitude sometimes. It's, like, more punk.
It's different. Like, the first one's more...
like magical and then the second one's more like
angry or whatever I don't know but but I don't
think that I could have made um they wouldn't
have let us make like Czar 2 like the second
coming of the first album they wouldn't have
they would have dropped us before that so you
have to like money just wasn't there for no the
first one we probably spent I don't know A lot
of bands in your situation wouldn't have gotten
a second record, I feel like. No. In fact, I
went to a meeting at the new A &R guy's house,
not knowing that he told me later that he was
going to tell me that we were dropped. Oh, wow.
In that conversation, and I came with the shirt.
When we were, before we were Czar, we were briefly
a drug boy. And we recorded some demos as drug
boy. And I had a shirt that said, please don't
be drug boy. And it was like an American flag.
And I went to his house and said, please don't
be drug boy. And I just, I was really, at that
time, I was really good at talking to like label
people and like those kind of people. Because
you just say nonsense. You don't, you literally
say. You literally say those things and you act
like you're this artist who knows things that
they couldn't possibly understand. So I was just
rapping this nonsense at this guy and not knowing
I was about to get dropped. And then he was saying
a lot of stuff and I remember, are you familiar
with the Monkees? The band the Monkees? Did you
ever see the movie Head? The movie Head that
they're in? Yeah. Okay. So in that movie, towards
the beginning, they do this thing where they
changed the monkey theme song to this kind of
rap. And he stood at me and he looked at me and
he started rapping that. And I just looked right
back at him and I rapped right back at him, word
for word. And he was like, oh, I guess I got
to give this guy another album. So that's how
that happened. But then the plan was hatched
for it to be this more in -your -face rock and
roll. then the first one had been more overdubbed,
polished. So when that second record came out,
did you guys get as much touring support? What
kind of tours did you do after that record? Well,
the first, okay, so then we recorded the record,
and then they didn't put it out, right? So then
we had a couple guys in the band quit. It was,
you got to understand, it was really, we didn't
have any money. We had flopped big. They're not
going to put out our second record. Yeah, no,
I grew up with a couple of bands that got signed
to, they ended up both being on WEA. There's
one ended up on Elektra and one ended up on Atlantic.
But yeah, I mean, after their first album, both
of them got dropped. Both of them, one of them
got signed to like Universal for a second record.
The other band, like one of them. I think only
one member of that band is a professional musician.
Everybody else in that band is living normal,
regular, everyday lives. Sure. And maybe still
writing songs. Oh, yeah. You can't stop doing
it. But the thing is that it hurt, honestly.
It hurt to move back in with my mom and my stepdad.
It hurt, right? It hurt to be walking around.
Seeing people, they go, what happened? And you
go, I don't know. I live with my mom. What do
you want me to say? So I was all in. I remember
saying at the time, you got to do something from
the cradle to the grave. Might as well make some
rock and roll records. What else are you going
to do? I don't know. That was my thinking at
the time. We got a couple new guys. They were
super nice. They're not. the original guys um
as nice and as good as they were i noticed there
was a lineup like when the record came out i
remember noticing that like there was a lineup
change yeah so so the original band played the
record but then they quit and then we got the
other guys to be like in the videos and stuff
and but they were did not play on the record
that's what it was yeah yeah the band girls money
video i remember that yeah yeah and and that
was different too because then we were on this
different label I remember it was TBT. Yeah.
So they had, they'd had some cool bands like
nine inch nails and guided by voices and stuff
over the years. And they were interested in,
in us and they liked the new records. Uh, so
we went with them, they bought it from Hollywood
and we went with them. But like, I remember like
we were recording, like we were doing the band
girls money video and I had an outfit that I
wanted to wear. And. and they wanted me to wear
what I ended up wearing, right? And I remember,
like, being in the makeup chair, talking to the
manager, and I'm like, why can't I wear what
I want to wear? And he's like, because we don't
get to do what we want to do all the time. I
go, this is a fucking rock band. If I don't get
to do what I want to do now, why the fuck am
I doing this? and he goes because there's other
people involved there's others money involved
and the director wants you to wear this and i
go i've never met that guy till this morning
he's never met me till this morning and he's
you have i'm sorry jeff you're gonna have to
wear this as a favor to me then because it's
you can't we can't do this we have to wear this
and i remember he left and i was just telling
like the makeup lady while she was like putting
on my makeup I'm just like, I don't get to do
it. She's like, don't cry. You look beautiful.
Don't cry. I'm like, it was like some model.
I'm about to cry and I'm going to mess up my
makeup. And I'm like, well, let us wear what
we want to wear. And so that definitely happened.
And I did not wear what I wanted to wear. And
I still regret that. But you never know with
these things which is the right way, when to
play ball, when to, like, when to take advice
from people, when to tell them to play a kite.
Yeah, especially when they're – you ever seen
the movie Dig? No, I never did. I did. Wait,
is that the one with Nirvana playing Small 16
Spirit? Or is that the one with – The Dandy Warhols
and the... The Dandy Warhols and the Brian Jones
film. Yeah, I didn't see that. I think they just
reissued it on Blu -ray, too. But it reminds
me of that $100 ,000 music video shoot that the
Dandys had to do, where they had no control over
anything. They were like... I think David LaChapelle
was the director. And it was just like... This
thing where... It didn't match what the band
was at all. And so I guess I wonder, ultimately,
that money is money that y 'all have to pay,
at least most of the time. The band's still paying
for the video at the end of the day. No, at the
end of the day, the band pays for the video if
they sell a lot of records. And that's the other
thing, is that they go... that video costs $10
,000 that it, and that's, it looks great for
a $10 ,000 video. And I was just like, people
don't care how much money a video costs. If they
only care if it costs like $400 or like $10 million.
Yeah. I think that big came out the same year.
Actually. I feel like did care like right around
then, like 2007, maybe a couple of years afterwards.
So I think. The tide had turned on music video.
Like, the attitude had shifted where, yeah, people
really didn't care. Unless it was, like, Massacre,
by the way, was on TVT as well. What was that?
Oh, they were, right? Yeah. They were. Yeah.
And I almost wonder if you almost felt like you
were more like that a little. Almost like you
felt like you were from a different era. Almost
like how that band. Definitely felt like that.
As fun as the. tour was and it's great and what
a good matchup it was with Marvelous 3 there
were a lot more mismatches along the lines of
Eve 6 and like the band that I felt the most
like at home with was we went we maybe did I
don't know six or seven shows with the New York
Dolls right like 2006 that seven in there and
I felt totally understood by the people that
came to see them. I felt like, oh, they get this.
They understand this. Yeah, I can see that 100%.
That tracks, yeah. Yeah, and so is it from another
time? I always liked older stuff. I almost never
liked contemporary stuff. And so it's possible
that I just want to explore. stuff that happened
before i i don't really don't know what it is
but it that sense of the time of being outside
of your own time is very familiar to me yeah
so when uh when it all fell apart and it sounds
like it was very painful so i don't if you don't
i don't want you to like dig up a bunch of painful
stuff or anything like that unless like you feel
like you want to but Now is more painful than
then. Can you just take us from then to now?
I certainly don't want to rush you, but I don't
need you to go into as much detail as you have
up until now. It's hard to talk about things
historically unless it's been more than 20 years.
A lot of it, we were up to about 20 years ago.
So that was fun. We went to England. The second
record sold more than the first record. I don't
hear as much from people saying it's their favorite
record or whatever. You still hear that about
the first one from time to time. Some people
get in touch with you and say how much they like
it. It's not often the second record that they
say that about. I think the fact that I still
listen to it Not as often as the first one. I
definitely like the first one. The first one
is attached to me more. Yeah. The second record
is still probably like a top 100 record of all
time for me. Oh, fantastic. I still listen to
it at least two or three times a year. Awesome.
Thank you. And I do think a big part of that
is the fact that I got to see you live on that
first record. I think that had... so much more
to do with it than the record itself really okay
so and these things are all the things that make
i like some i think i like some music more because
i liked the cassette that it was on there are
things that like that they that you associate
that make you like it and that aren't strictly
about the notes or whatever but i'll just run
through the history since 2000 six or so and
so we toured with that made a couple videos on
that record which we didn't get to make any videos
on the first record because that was when everything
was still being done on film the first record
by the time the second record came out people
could do stuff on um on video so that brought
the cost down a lot yeah we had it in our contract
with Hollywood for the first album that we were
supposed to at least make one video when the
budget was like $150 ,000. They just didn't make
it. And they go, we're not going to make it until
it's a hit. And then, you know, what are you
going to do? It was the video era, too. Yeah,
it was also the end. It was right when MTV announced,
we would hear that they announced that they would
not be breaking any new songs. They would only
be playing songs that were already hits. So I
don't even know what that means. But when a label,
when you have a contract with a label, getting
them to do the things that are in the contract
is not like you can't just say, so that's in
the contract, so we're going to do that. You
wonder, because the contracts are super thick,
but they only do the stuff that they want to
do. And by that point, you started to see the
consolidation of radio, and you started under
Clear Channel and Cumulus, and you started seeing...
The consolidation of media in general, right?
All the channels had multiple owners. Media companies
owned multiple channels, and there were deals
between networks. Yeah, but I was in the position
where I wanted that to work for me. You know
what I mean? I listened to a lot of radio at
Disney on my own, and now we're on Disney's...
or you go, can we be on Radio Disney? And they
say no. And you go, what the hell? Yeah, I do.
Because you work to get in the position where
you want some of this stuff to work for you now.
And then if it doesn't, you go, you know, whatever.
Why am I here? Yeah, yeah. So then I went to
grad school and got a master's degree. And then
I made a solo record. What's that record called
and where can people hear it? It's called 10
More Rock Super Hits. It's, I don't know, it's
available where good records are sold. I don't
think it's on tape, but it's on vinyl and CD
and digital. I made that with Linus of Hollywood.
I don't know if you know who he is, but he's...
Really talented musician and producer. And I
had a wonderful time making that record with
him. And I'm really proud of that. I would say
of all of the things that I've been involved
in making, my three favorite, the three that
I'm most proud of are the first Czar album, my
solo album, Ten More Rock Super Hits, and the
Monster Squad album, which is soon to come out,
One Hopes. Those are the three things I listen
to and I feel the least amount of shame. I feel
like a kid on Christmas morning because you just
told me there's another record that I haven't
heard that I can go listen to. Oh, yeah. And
another one hopefully coming out. Yeah. So thank
you for that reaction. That's wonderful. The
solo album, we did a couple of videos of that.
So one's called... The Alien Lanes and one's
called Jendi for people who want to get a sense
of it without having to buy it right away. And
that was a lot of fun. I really liked that record.
And then a friend had a party and wanted to know
if the brother Steve from college would play
at it. So we got the band back together and we
played this party. And then we said, let's, since
we know the songs again. Let's record an album.
So we did. And that one, we recorded the first
album really fast. And that was really good.
I like that one. That one's actually better than
I thought it was at the time. And then the second
one was recorded during COVID. And it's not as
good as I thought it was at the time. Largely
due to its, you can feel the COVID on it. You
can feel the isolation. You can feel that. No
two of us were in the same room at the same time
during any of the recording of it. So you can
feel that. I didn't necessarily know that. Gotcha.
What did you study in grad school? Information
science. Awesome. I did museum studies at one
point. Okay. So, yeah. So this is library and
information science. And I'm a librarian now.
Yeah. Yeah. When it comes to songwriting, I just
want to step back and take, now that we've. covered
the events and everything when it comes to songwriting
it sounds like it's something that you said it
earlier it's like you can't stop like it has
to come out of you do you think that dude that
it started to manifest in destructive ways before
you discovered you were a songwriter or do you
think what do you think would happen if you just
stopped because i think people that have that
that compelling nature To do it, like, it's going
to come out some way or another. Yeah, no, that's
interesting. I would say that, like, when I don't
do it, I feel more guilt. I feel more like I'm
not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And
it's not if you do it, then you feel great. It's
you feel less of that. And it's a hard thing
to do, especially because, like, when you're,
like, 23 and you go, I'm going to. or you're
17 and you're on acid and you're running around
your hair is bouncing on your shoulders like
the sense of doing it i don't know it's it you
you can do whatever you want in your life but
like when it when it when you have an option
that you might you could maybe be a successful
guy in a band versus Say, like, later, when you've
been given a lot of examples of how that's probably
not going to happen to you. Like, the motivation
for it is different. It's not as, oh, I might
become a rock star if I do this right. Now it's
like, I might go less crazy. Yeah. Yeah. When
you write a song, and I'm a stand -up comedian.
Awesome. How is it? It's the only way that I'm
comfortable getting attention put on me is if
I'm making people laugh. It's what I've realized
recently. I was helping a friend who's a musician.
His name's Lee Baines III, and he was in a band
called the Glory Fires for a long time. Anyway,
I was helping him put on a house show in Jacksonville
because he did my house, and then the next house
didn't have a PA. And he was mostly playing clubs
on this tour. And I just remember him like...
like thanking me to the guy and this was just
like a week ago but he like thanked me to the
room and I was like very uncomfortable with it
until I made a joke about how I I just wanted
to see the full show like it and so I think that's
really the only way I can it's the only way I'm
like really comfortable like getting praise of
some sort it's also I think for me like until
I started doing it like it would manifest in
ugly ways and maybe i would just say what was
on my mind a little too often or not have a filter
socially or like now i've found like situations
where i might have gotten angry about i'm now
like i i write a joke about it and then that's
how it exists in my mind now it's not something
that makes me angry it's something that makes
me laugh can i ask you a couple questions about
this absolutely please okay so i like when i
i've read a lot of memoirs by rockers and i've
read quite a few memoirs of stand -up comedians
and they're similar and they agree yeah they
like they talk about i listen to that record
over and over in my room and that could be a
rock record or it could be like steve martin
record you know i mean it's like it's somebody's
like getting obsessed with this thing and i do
it with my friends It was exactly the same as
the musicians, right? And then they go on these
tours where you pay your dues, you play to nobody,
and you're like, you're doing the same thing.
And there's this community of people. So there
are similar instincts. There are similar urges
that are happening or experiences about where
you present yourself. You're probably troubled.
You probably had a weird childhood. And now you're
either a rocker, you're making people laugh.
or whatever that's like. A hundred percent. Yeah.
I completely, I would say that's almost been
the thesis of this podcast season, like the first
season of this podcast. Awesome. Okay. Okay.
And then when, does it matter to you if somebody
likes your stuff, but they don't get it? Like
you clearly, they love you and you're like, they
don't get what I'm doing at all, but they love
it. Does it matter to you? Do you have to, because
you talked about intention with a rocker intended
with something versus how people took it. So
does it matter to you if somebody's like a big
fan of yours, of your comedy, but you're pretty
sure they don't get what you're doing? I think
that I'm okay with it if they get part of what
I'm doing. So I think some people get like the
podcast, they get the kind of history interviews
that I'm doing. And like some comedy is just
not for everybody to like, it's not for people
that get easily offended. It's not for people
that there's comedy for those people. But in
general, I think standup comedy is for people
that have like a fucked up view of the world
a little bit. Okay. People need to do the comedy
or to enjoy it. I think on varying degrees, both.
I think to appreciate... Nate Bargetzi is one
of my all -time favorite comics. I think he's
great. I went and saw him live a few weeks ago,
but he's not what I'm talking about here either.
He's the kind of comic that the whole family
can go watch, and he's just a funny guy. I think
he has a lot of those kinds of fans that just
like him, but don't always necessarily get his
jokes. I feel like... This touches on what me
and my good friend who's been on the podcast,
Elizabeth and I were talking about the other
week where it's, she's a songwriter, a singer,
a songwriter. And like, you can have a bad show
or you can have a good show with no audience
as a band. You can have a good show for five
people. That's a lot harder as a comedian because
what you're doing relies on the audience getting
it so much more. So I think when it comes to
stand -up, I don't want applause. I want laughter.
Even a groan or a boo is better than what I call
claptor, which is what I think a lot of these
comedians that get more political do. And I'm
a leftist, but I don't do a lot of political
humor, except one time I'm spreading a rumor.
Go ahead and put this rumor out on the podcast.
I am spreading the rumor that billionaires taste
like lobster. When buttered, a lot of things
do. I agree. I don't know what is a good way
to go with political stuff. The world is different
than it was. I watched some old Conan O 'Brien
episode from the 90s the other night, and it
was like a different world. What was being presented,
this, like, talk show format, where you come
out, you tell some monologue jokes. In this episode,
he did a thing about, like, a comedy bit about
how the band got together. And then you go to
the first guest. It doesn't exist anymore. That
whole thing is not a thing anymore. No, because
the monologue has now become the way a lot of
people get their news. Yeah. Even the absurd
stuff usually has political tint to it. And the
thing about all that is, like, politics is not
timeless. It goes back to what we were talking
about. Like, I want my jokes... All jokes are
going to be culturally bound, I think, more than
music has to be. But I do want my jokes to be
funny in five years. Not just funny on the monologue
of The Tonight Show tonight. Yeah. And so I think
striving for that longevity is really challenging
when it comes to keeping the audience with you.
They're so tapped into what's going on right
now, the daily news, the whatever. And like zooming
out from that, that's how you get, I think in
songwriting and in jokes, like you either get
super specific or you zoom out, right? Like you
get so specific it's universal or you get. Or
you start to generalize these kind of specific
experiences that you've had over time. And I
think that's where the challenge lies. It's easy
to make a joke about the news. It's easy to make
a joke about Epstein and the drawing or whatever.
And it's not like I don't make those jokes on
an open mic night. But a lot of the time I try
and turn them into something. Why is that funny?
And then... Can I make what's funny about that
exist without the news story or whatever? It's
interesting that you say that because you hear
about, say, you know, these famous comedians
like Lenny Bruce or like Mort Sahl or something.
And you try to listen to their records or you
try to listen to their performances and you don't
laugh even once. No, you don't. I listened to
a George Carlin record and he was like talking
about how you accidentally grabbed the wrong
grocery cart. And I'm like, I get, it's like
a chuckle, but it's not the crowd. You hear the
crowd roaring. And I'm like, that's so obvious
as like somebody who's 50 years later is like
studied comedy is like a thing, right? Like it's
like, it becomes, I mean, I think some George
Carlin still was funny, but sure, sure. But in
terms of, That might be the exception. Okay,
I don't know about you, but the Steve Martin
records, his 70s records, are really funny to
me. And I don't know if they are to a lot of
people. I always like it when I read some kind
of contemporary comedian that they're heavily
influenced by Steve Martin's records. I go, okay,
I get it. But you don't hear about them. It's
like you watch an old comedy movie. You watch,
say, some Marx Brothers movie. I was like a big
Abbott and Costello guy. As a kid, maybe, but
if you watch it now, do you think it's funny?
No. Yeah. It's harder. Like, it's more like a,
that's funny, than a laugh out loud. Right? It's
like, oh, I see how that's funny. It's like an
intellectual, like, but I think that happens
as you start to, I wonder if this happens, do
you find yourself as a musician, do you rock
out less to other musicians than you did when
you weren't writing songs when you were younger?
You can't help but listen to it in a kind of
a, like a doctor or like a, as a, you chart the
scientists, you go, what are they doing or whatever.
I think that might happen to all comedy eventually
because it's just such like a commentary on us.
Eventually enough time gets removed from it.
It really does just become like a time piece
and you have to look at it with this academic
view. I also think just. is someone who writes
jokes like that i relate to that too like eventually
like i can watch a comedy special and they will
make me laugh but it's a lot harder than i feel
like it used to be or even my friends are out
i might just be like oh that's funny where they're
like actually cracking up about something so
i do wonder when that let me say this i'll say
this i'll say that like I've explored a lot of
what's available out there. And most of almost
everything I like is old. So there's a limited
amount of it. And when I find a band that I didn't
know about that has a couple records or three
or maybe more, I'm really excited because it
doesn't happen as much anymore. Because when
you're younger, you have your whole thing. You
go, all right, let's check out the Stooges now.
Or now let's check out the suite or just a whole
bunch of bands with albums and you can just,
they got a thing and you could just do it. When
you run out of them, then you're going to, you're
relying on more and more obscure stuff and it's
less likely to happen. But, but it does still
take me there. Just, it does not. I've really
explored the bands I like a lot. And like, I've
listened to the Beatles a lot. Yeah. And. Listen
to David Bowie a lot. And so I'm not going to
have that rise and fall of Ziggy Stardust and
Spiders from Mars the same way I did when I was
20, where I just couldn't believe it. I had to
listen to it again and again. So I don't know
if it's as time goes by, just my cynicism, the
weight of the world. Because the world got real
stupid, too. It's hard to, like... Like, the
things that meant something, they don't mean
the same things anymore. And you wonder if what
this is doing is still doing the same things
that it was intended to. Like, parody is so hard
now. It's like, a month later, it becomes reality.
The Onion is just, The Simpsons and The Onion
just predict what really happens in real life.
Yeah. So, it's weird. I'm really hungry now.
No. This has been so great. What are you most
excited about? What should people check out?
What do you want to plug? I want to give you
a chance to. Look for the Monster Squad. The
Zars album, the first album's on vinyl for the
first time ever, even though that was in the
contract with Hollywood Records way back when.
It sounds fantastic. Oh, thank you. It's super
nice packaging. It's everything I like about
a vinyl pressing. It's super high -quality pressing,
too. Definitely. I'll put a link to where you
can pick that up in the description. Super. So
then that might come out again with some bonus
tracks, like an extended version. Okay, Usher.
I said, okay, Usher. There's limited extra tracks
that we have to even put on there, but there
would be. It's not like a whole list. No, I was
just... He put out his whole other album for
one song. Anyway. And they put out a CD. Omnivore,
that label, put out a CD called The Drug Boy
Tapes, which is demos that made up the first
album. I think it's pretty nifty. It should be
interesting to people. I don't know. And then
looking forward for the Monster Squad coming
out. And who knows what's down the road because
when I make more music, then I feel slightly
less shame. When you work more. Yes, exactly.
One last question for you, Jeff. What has kept
you persistent in all this? To other artists
who've maybe had setbacks over the years, what
do you say to them in terms of not giving up?
I gave up, though. I gave up. it's hard not to
give up you can give up all you want you still
have to do it it's like you have to do these
things and there's no you just stop doing it
and it can be in other avenues you can you can
do it other ways but but honestly i mean like
life is really stupid and I can't believe how
stupid it ended up being. I thought it was going
to be less stupid than this by a lot, but it's
more stupid than I could have imagined. And you
might as well dance around. And if you're dancing
in the mirror with a tennis racket, acting like
you're doing a solo, it's not that much different
from doing it for real. So you might as well.
Jeff, thank you so much for your time. This has
been awesome. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you
for having me on. Let you know when it's coming
out and there'll be links to everything you just
talked about in the description to make it easy
for people to find it. Awesome. Thank you so
much, Jeff. All right, dude. I'll talk to you
later. Well, that was my talk with Jeff Whalen.
I am excited to see what he's got coming next.
It's also nice to know that he still puts out
music. It's really good to check it out. I really
enjoyed. talking to someone that I was able to
kind of share with them how much their music
meant to me. I think that was a really cool experience,
probably for both of us, if I'm being honest.
Jeff was super nice to me back in the day when
I was a kid. He was super nice to me now. He
still puts out great records. Check them out.
Keep your eyes open for Monster Squad. I think
that sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun.
Next week, we've got Kevin Lane of The Arcs,
The Lanes, lots of other bands. We get into it
deep. You're going to be hearing a lot more about
The Arcs over the next few months. And that's
all I'm going to say about that. You don't want
to miss it. I went up to Athens. I think if there's
anything that we can take away from this season
coming up, things don't always go to plan. Things
don't always happen the way you hope or expect.
But Hank Green, who's a YouTuber and... I don't
know, entrepreneur, multifaceted, talented individual.
He put out a video recently where he talks about
how he tries not to have goals and hopes and
dreams or like an end game. And he just tries
to solve problems and do interesting things with
the tools that he has. And those tools include
himself, his relationships, his skill set. His
actual tools. But I think that I probably have
a similar approach in the way that I do my work.
If you listen to my finale at the end of season
two, I mentioned several names that I was planning
to interview. And I'll tell you, life happens.
Most of those got rescheduled. Actually, they
all got rescheduled. So we have an entirely different
lineup for you. But those are coming your way.
Don't worry. anyhow just tune in hit that subscribe
button we got a lot of cool episodes Danny Bedrosian
from Parliament Funkadelic will be on later this
season you don't want to miss it thanks for tuning
in