WEBVTT

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Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed. I'm

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Fettin. I've got a really cool episode this week

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with Mike White, a rock photographer who really,

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he's photographed some of the biggest names in

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the world. Paul McCartney, Radiohead, U2, REM,

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ACDC, Nine Inch Nails, Sonic Youth, Soundgarden,

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Philip Glass, Depeche Mode, New Order. The list

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goes on. photographed most everybody that I've

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interviewed on this podcast, at least musician

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-wise. He's done a lot of photography for Slightly

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Famous Somebodies. He does the photography for

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Sloan Brothers. Anyway, we talked at the end

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of AthFest. He was the official AthFest 2025

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photographer, and I was out in the sun all day

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as well. It was hot. We were exhausted, but I

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think we just fed off each other's energy and

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we ended up having a really great conversation

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despite our exhaustion. But if you hear a little

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bit of hoarseness in my voice and a little bit

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of exhaustion in my tone, just understand that

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it was super hot all weekend and Sunday all the

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shows were outside. I met with Jen Bryant, and

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then I went and saw a bunch of shows, and Mike

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and I got together about 9 o 'clock that night.

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So anyway, without further ado, here's my interview

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with Mike White, photographer. Thanks for listening.

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All right. Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed.

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I'm here with Mike White, graphic designer, photographer,

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visual artist. how to label you, because you

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seem to do so much. What do you, like, if somebody

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asks you, like, what do you do in terms of art,

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like, how do you answer them? I mean, the whole

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reason I got in to take, I mostly take, like,

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live concert photos and photos related to music

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in some way, and really the way I got into that

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is I was already going to shows. And I like photography,

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so I figured why not combine them. You know,

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it kind of gave me like kind of a purpose other

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than just being an attendee. And then that gave

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me also a way to give back to the music community,

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like share my photos with the artist. And so

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really, I mean, at this point, it's... I mean,

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I've been doing it for 20 years now, so I didn't

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have the idea of it being a historical record

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of sorts, but enough time passes, and then you

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look back and you see how much things have changed

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since you started, especially documenting one

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scene, and you're like, wow, that band doesn't

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exist. Those people have passed away. They're

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no longer with us. And being in a college town,

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you know, bands come and go. There might be a

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band that you fall in love with, and then they're

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gone in six months. And it's nice to have some

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sort of documentation that that band existed,

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because they may... They may not ever get into

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the studio. Yeah, yeah, that definitely has been

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the case. And, you know, and so it's nice that

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I've had several people tell me, we're very thankful

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for your photos because there's nothing else

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that proves we existed, really. That's a trip.

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I'm like, well, right. So, like, I mean, as far

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as these days, I mean, I still do it because

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I love doing it. I love this. and musicians in

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general, I'm not a musician, so I have an appreciation

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of the people that can do something I can't do,

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and so just being able to document them doing

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their thing, and, you know, and I've, yeah, it's

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just... I guess I wasn't really going into it.

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I didn't really realize the value it would have

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until later on. I was just, it was more, I'm

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at a show, I want to document it, I want to share

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my photos with the bands. And then, now 20 years

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later, you know, they're like, hey, we're running

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an exhibit on the house. The house show was seen

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in Athens. Do you have any photos of these venues?

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And I was like, yeah. And in town there was this

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venue called the Ultramod. And I took photos

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there. I only got to see a couple shows there,

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but I took photos. And in between bands. I was

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just killing time, so I walked around and just

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took photos of the back of doors. It was plastered

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with old show flyers, and it was just the general

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vibe. And 20 years later, not thinking anything

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would come of it, they were of use for a museum,

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like the Special Collections Library here used

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them. So you just never know. But yeah, I...

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How often do you think you do know that what

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you're taking a photo of is something like that?

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That is like significant in some way to somebody

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or, okay, this is just another night. Do you

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have any sense of that or is it kind of just...

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I mean, there's sometimes just because of the

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nature of the event, you know, it's like a one

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-off thing. Right. That happens a lot in the

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city. Yeah, so you know, like, one thing that

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comes to mind is last year when Michael Shannon

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did his REM tribute. And at that particular show,

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all the members of REM got on stage together

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for the first time in 18 years. Yeah, and so

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like that, I knew that was a big deal in the

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moment. And, yeah, so probably it's fairly rare.

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Most of the times it's just another show or event.

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But sometimes you just know. And then you realize

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later that it was really important to somebody.

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Yeah. You just never know the meaning of something

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to somebody. And, you know, like. I've unfortunately

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I've taken photos of shows and then a week later

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the person passed away and you're like you had

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no idea like you have some of the last photos

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in the live or performing yeah and so you don't

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even know that yeah I mean obviously you don't

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know but at that in that situation so yeah and

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it it also makes you I mean sometimes it's a

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You know, I have a day job, and so I'm trying

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to balance my day job with going out at night.

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So sometimes it can be a challenge to find it

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to go out. Yeah, for sure. But once I'm out,

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I'm very happy I'm out there. Man, I can relate

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to that. Sometimes you're just sitting at home

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like, fuck, I know I should go. I know I should

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go. The moment you make the call to go. You're

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always glad you did. Yeah. You're always glad

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you went to the show. It's just like getting

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up. I have a kitty, so the kitty's on my lap.

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I'm on my couch. I'm like, all right, let's do

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it. We got to go. But, yeah, another thing that

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really, you know, when the lockdown happened

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in 2020 and music stopped for a year and a half,

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all those photos I had became. I guess more important,

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like, you know, you just, yeah, memories. And

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also like up until that point, it was just a

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given that you would always have concerts. You

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would always go out, you would always be able

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to do this. And then all of a sudden it stopped

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for a year and a half. And, and then for like

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a while after that, it was kind of, it, things

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could shut down again. Tours were being canceled.

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And so I, um, During that time when music wasn't

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happening. I look back through my archive and

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just kind of brought back Yeah, I appreciate

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it I mean so many memories were triggered from

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just looking at the photos things I would have

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never remembered otherwise and And then so when

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music did start back I tried to appreciate and

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I mean, I try to be present anyway, but I try

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to even be more present in the moment, you know?

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And it sounded to me like it does, but do you

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think that, like, taking photos was, like, part

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of how you were able to stay present at shows

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in the first place? Uh, yeah. I mean, it's...

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Like, don't give me an example. Like, I've got

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ADHD. Uh -huh. And it's never that I'm bored.

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But sometimes I just want to have something to

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do, man. Yeah. I mean, it does give me a sense

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of purpose. And that's another reason that is

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motivation for me to get out there. I'm like,

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okay, well, these photos, I need to take these

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photos. Not that people are necessarily relying

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on them and asking me for them. And then all

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of a sudden they did, though. Yeah. Like COVID

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hit, and it sounds like all of a sudden. everybody

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kind of was relying on you for your photos that

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you had taken already. Yeah, it's hard to say

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how many shows, because I take photos of almost

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every show I go to, so it's hard to say how many

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shows I would actually go to. Probably, maybe

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nearly as much. But I definitely, I mean, there

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are some trade -offs with taking photos. I don't

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get to be as social, really, as I normally would.

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We've texted this weekend infinitely more than

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we've seen each other face -to -face, and we've

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been at the same music festival. Yeah. I mean,

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that's exactly right. I get it. Because even

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if somebody sees you, they're not going to be

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like, hey, because you're in the middle of taking

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photos. Yeah. Like, nobody's going to interrupt

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you from your work. Yeah. Unless they're just

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really drunk. Well, it's, I mean, it's, you know,

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like if I'm going to see a show, like at the

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40 Watt or something, I usually get there early.

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Yeah. And I just, depending on the show, I usually

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go straight up the front and I just sit there.

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Like, I got to, like, claim my spot. I'm always

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of the mindset of. I don't want to be one of

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those photographers that, like, shows up at the

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last minute and, like, shoves their way to the

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front. You know, I don't want to be rude. What's

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the difference for you when you have, like, a

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media pass or something like that or you're,

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like, sent on an assignment for an article? Because

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I know you get commissioned to do things like

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that a lot. Also, like, you just go to shows

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and take photos. How do you approach that differently?

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Well, a lot of times if you, not all the time,

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but... Sometimes if you have a photo pass, a

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media pass, there's a photo pit. So normally

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it's like the first three songs. You get three

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songs up front, and then you go out into the

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crowd. So there's less of an urgency to get there

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super early because you know that you can just

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get into the photo pit. be a little bit more

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present and take better photos instead of worrying

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about, like, all these other things? Or is it

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just nice? It actually, it's nice, but when I'm

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limited to three songs, it's almost like I don't

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even hear the music because it's such a, like,

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I mean, I, like, got three songs. That's all

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I have, so I got to make sure I make the most

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of these three songs. And then you join the show.

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Yeah, I can't. Sometimes the three songs is over,

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and if you would have asked me what songs they

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played, I would have no idea because I'm just

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in the zone. There's other nerds in the audience.

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Setlist FM isn't run by a photographer. But for

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the rest of the time, I can't take photos, so

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I can put my camera away, and then I'm just enjoying

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the show. You're not even allowed to. take photos

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from the crowd with your professional camera

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after that typically um depends but i mean it

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depends like sometimes you can shoot the first

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three up up front and then you can shoot from

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the house the rest of the show some other times

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you have to put your camera gear up in your car

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after your first three for like you know like

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bigger shows like arena and and like um but they

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allow you to do that Yeah, I mean, sometimes

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they have like a locker that you can check in.

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So I'm thinking about what you just said combined

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with that fact, and I'm like, that actually sounds

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pretty fucking great. Because if you're forced

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to not worry about it the rest of the night,

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then you really do just get to be present and

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enjoy the show. And like this all started with

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you just being a fan, right? Yeah. Same with

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me. I have a theory, joke, whatever. It's a funny

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theory, I suppose you could call it. All rock

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stars are wannabe comedians. But all comedians

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are wannabe rock stars. I can see that. And I

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think something that I'm already seeing that

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you and I have in common, and you, I, and Jen

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Bryant have in common, is first and foremost,

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we're just music fans. Yeah. And then we try

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and do something productive with that. I'm going

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to ask you the same question I've asked everybody

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that's been on this podcast, and I will tell

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you, it has given an array of answers. There's

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not a wrong answer. It'll lead somewhere interesting.

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What's the first song you remember loving, like

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as a child? My first song that I ever really

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loved... is actually a pretty questionable song

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for probably a two -year -old alike, but it's

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the correct answer to your question, and that's

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Baby's Got Her Blue Jeans On by Mel McDaniel.

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Do you know that one? I do. I've never heard

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of anybody knowing what their favorite song was

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at two years old. That's kind of amazing. I mean,

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it was released in 1984. I was born in 82. Maybe

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I... Maybe a little, yeah. It may have been a

00:17:10.529 --> 00:17:13.190
little shortly after, but it was on the radio,

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and I just loved that song. My parents, I grew

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up... Do you remember asking who did it and stuff

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like that? I mean, I didn't find out until way

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later who actually the artist was. I just, I

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mean, I would sing along with it when I was a

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little kid. I gotcha. So it didn't matter who

00:17:31.809 --> 00:17:34.630
it was by. You just loved the song. Yeah, yeah,

00:17:34.690 --> 00:17:39.019
and like... you know it was until years later

00:17:39.019 --> 00:17:41.740
that i actually revisited the song and read the

00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:44.279
lyrics and i was like this is not an appropriate

00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:49.359
song especially for like a two to three year

00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:56.779
old um but that you know my i remember my mom

00:17:56.779 --> 00:17:59.180
got the cassette i think and she would play it

00:17:59.180 --> 00:18:02.900
and i would sing along and It was just on the

00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:05.119
radio, and I would get really excited whenever

00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.559
it came on the radio. What was the first thing

00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.559
that you went and got from the record store,

00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:13.619
like for you? Whether your parents took you or

00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:16.299
on your own, but you remember you were like,

00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.579
okay, I want to get this. I want this for myself.

00:18:21.539 --> 00:18:27.519
It was probably, I mean, one of the first records

00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:32.190
that I really wanted was Nine -inch snails, a

00:18:32.190 --> 00:18:34.750
downward spiral. Oh, yeah. And that was, like,

00:18:34.769 --> 00:18:38.109
94 or so. Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, is at

00:18:38.109 --> 00:18:42.849
that point, they had the, you know, the... Definitely

00:18:42.849 --> 00:18:46.509
not for 10 -year -olds. Yeah. Or 12 -year -olds.

00:18:46.509 --> 00:18:51.150
So my mom had to buy it for me. Oh, yeah. So,

00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:54.910
and she's like, does this have any cussing in

00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:57.750
it? And I was like, well, yeah. And she's like,

00:18:57.869 --> 00:19:01.680
does it have a lot? I'm like, not anymore. Then

00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.880
I hear her day to day. She's like, okay. And

00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.339
so, but yeah, so she bought it for me. But I

00:19:09.339 --> 00:19:15.059
mean, I grew up with country and like country

00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:21.480
music mostly and like 60s and 70s like pop music

00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.240
basically. Did you ever like rebel against that

00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.079
stuff or did you kind of consistently like it?

00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.130
I embraced it. I mean, I liked it. and that was

00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:35.069
also i'm an only child my parents would go see

00:19:35.069 --> 00:19:41.150
concerts in the 90s and uh and so they would

00:19:41.150 --> 00:19:43.049
take it was easy enough for them to buy me a

00:19:43.049 --> 00:19:46.710
ticket and so i went to concerts all through

00:19:46.710 --> 00:19:51.000
like eight years old and up What was your first

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.119
concert that you remember? Do you remember? Yeah,

00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:56.059
I had to look it up because they all kind of

00:19:56.059 --> 00:19:58.660
ran together. But then I'm like, I got to figure

00:19:58.660 --> 00:20:03.980
out what my first one was. And I figured it out

00:20:03.980 --> 00:20:07.240
that the first concert was Dolly Parton and Kenny

00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:14.380
Rogers at the Omni in Atlanta. Holy shit. That's

00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:20.650
wild. And that was 1990. Only thing I remember

00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:26.009
from that show is they came and they sang Islands

00:20:26.009 --> 00:20:29.109
in the Stream together and people just lost it.

00:20:29.289 --> 00:20:32.369
It was one of those sit down, it was one of the

00:20:32.369 --> 00:20:34.690
shows where you sit down and fan yourself shows.

00:20:34.990 --> 00:20:39.210
But once they started that song, they like got

00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:44.150
up and started dancing. And so, yeah, I always

00:20:44.150 --> 00:20:47.849
remember that. And so, yeah, that had to be my...

00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:51.480
Did you take a picture at that show? No. Any

00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:56.140
kind? No. Any camcorder or anything like that?

00:20:56.339 --> 00:21:02.180
Nothing? Sadly, no. I'm curious because when

00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:04.279
did you start taking pictures, whether it was

00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:08.079
in music or otherwise? When were you like, okay,

00:21:08.140 --> 00:21:14.140
taking pictures is fun? Well, I didn't. This

00:21:14.140 --> 00:21:18.920
didn't start. There wasn't, like, consistently

00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.259
taking photos after this point, but my first

00:21:21.259 --> 00:21:24.019
concert photo was at one of those country concerts

00:21:24.019 --> 00:21:27.019
that my parents took me to, and that was Diamond

00:21:27.019 --> 00:21:34.140
Rio. That was, like, 93. My Maria? Was that their

00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:36.099
song? Yeah, and they had that Meet in the Middle

00:21:36.099 --> 00:21:42.859
song, too. My Maria, though. Yeah. I could be

00:21:42.859 --> 00:21:45.519
wrong. I think that's them. I'm going to look

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:47.279
it up what we do. I feel like it might be like

00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.960
Brooks and Dunn. Maybe that is Brooks and Dunn.

00:21:50.019 --> 00:21:53.960
I saw them too. But yeah, so there was a, you

00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.099
know, the place that we would see concerts at,

00:21:57.299 --> 00:22:00.119
they would let people just come up and take photos.

00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:05.799
My mom gave me her 35 millimeter camera and I

00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:08.099
went up and took some pictures of Diamond Rio.

00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:14.319
But I always... like taking photos with my mom's

00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:18.599
camera on vacations and stuff, but I really didn't.

00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:23.940
Maria's works and done, but there was like How

00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:28.160
Your Love Makes Me Feel, One More Day, Beautiful

00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:33.359
Mess, and I Believe, all in the span of like

00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:38.380
five years that they put out from 97 to 2003.

00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:43.420
The Diamond Rio song? I thought they had stuff

00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:45.440
earlier. Yeah, the Meet Me in the Middle was

00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:50.339
91. Okay. But then they had 32 more songs between

00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:54.400
then and 2006, and four more of them hit number

00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.720
one. Wow. How Your Love Makes Me Feel, One More

00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:02.740
Day, Beautiful Mess. But Meet Me in the Middle,

00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.900
I think, is the one that... I think they were

00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:08.220
touring on that album. Yeah, 91. Yeah, it was

00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:13.849
around that. around that time yeah i think i

00:23:13.849 --> 00:23:18.589
don't yeah i so i'm a visual guy i don't know

00:23:18.589 --> 00:23:22.410
i'm guessing you are is that the one uh yeah

00:23:22.410 --> 00:23:24.230
i remember the they were selling those shirts

00:23:24.230 --> 00:23:31.289
with that design yeah so i took photos of that

00:23:31.289 --> 00:23:36.059
but then like really i didn't um I didn't start

00:23:36.059 --> 00:23:42.579
taking photos regularly until in 2003. I did

00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:45.720
a college program at Disney World in Florida,

00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.880
which you're familiar with. I am. I even have

00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:55.220
jokes about Disney World. I'll send you the clip

00:23:55.220 --> 00:24:00.980
after. All right. I'm a Disney nerd. You'll get

00:24:00.980 --> 00:24:05.039
the jokes. So I went down there to do a college

00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:08.779
program, and I bought a little point -and -shoot

00:24:08.779 --> 00:24:10.519
camera because I was like, oh, I want to document

00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.519
my time during this college program. So I took

00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:17.859
photos every day during that college program,

00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:20.579
mostly just me and my roommates goofing off,

00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:25.180
but of the parks and people that we met and all

00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:30.720
that stuff. And so during... During the college

00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:35.759
program, we went and saw some shows at the House

00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.180
of Blues in Orlando. I saw Weird Al there. That's

00:24:40.180 --> 00:24:43.039
cool. I was like 13. Nice. I mean, I've seen

00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:45.740
him eight times, but I'm taking my kid to see

00:24:45.740 --> 00:24:49.200
him. That's awesome. I think that was the first

00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:51.940
time I ever saw him was the House of Blues. That

00:24:51.940 --> 00:24:57.609
was cool. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. It's on the

00:24:57.609 --> 00:25:01.369
Universal thing, right? Yeah, it was previously

00:25:01.369 --> 00:25:05.109
called Downtown Disney. Oh, Disney. Sorry, not

00:25:05.109 --> 00:25:07.750
Universal. And now they call it something else.

00:25:08.109 --> 00:25:11.329
Universal has another one now. What is it? Yeah,

00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:14.589
they basically made their version of it. Another

00:25:14.589 --> 00:25:20.509
venue kind of thing. Oh, yeah. There's a Hard

00:25:20.509 --> 00:25:22.970
Rock Cafe. That's exactly what it is. And that's

00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:25.700
where I saw Weird Al. oh okay yeah okay well

00:25:25.700 --> 00:25:28.079
yeah no they have hard rock live oh yeah yeah

00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.480
yeah house of blues at disney okay i saw a newfound

00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:36.900
glory in 1999 at the house of blues in orlando

00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:46.680
wires crossed so it's still around yeah so as

00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.220
part of the taking photos every day as part of

00:25:49.220 --> 00:25:51.660
that disney program i took my point -and -shoot

00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:53.940
camera to those concerts I went to at the House

00:25:53.940 --> 00:25:56.980
of Blues. And then when the program was over,

00:25:57.059 --> 00:26:02.079
I came back and really just got energized about...

00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:05.779
I had seen concerts, like, before that on my

00:26:05.779 --> 00:26:09.000
own, but, you know, like, a couple a year, not,

00:26:09.119 --> 00:26:12.599
like, too many. But then once I moved back, I

00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:18.599
got, like, really invigorated about seeing music.

00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:22.730
So did photography help you want to see more

00:26:22.730 --> 00:26:28.569
shows? I guess so. And it was also like, I had

00:26:28.569 --> 00:26:32.890
one of my roommates at Disney was this guy named

00:26:32.890 --> 00:26:37.970
Drew. And he's from the Portland area. And so

00:26:37.970 --> 00:26:41.190
he turned me on to a lot of indie stuff that

00:26:41.190 --> 00:26:43.569
I just wasn't familiar with. And he was going

00:26:43.569 --> 00:26:48.670
to shows. About what time of, like, what year?

00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:51.950
This is 2003. Okay, so you're living in Orlando

00:26:51.950 --> 00:26:55.230
around 2003, working at Disney, you've got roommates,

00:26:55.630 --> 00:27:02.589
taking photos, but blogging is not really quite,

00:27:02.849 --> 00:27:04.990
I mean, it's kind of a thing at that point, but

00:27:04.990 --> 00:27:09.630
certainly no YouTube or TikTok or social media

00:27:09.630 --> 00:27:14.529
didn't exist. I mean, there's MySpace then. Barely.

00:27:14.529 --> 00:27:17.750
Barely. The reason I say that is it almost sounds

00:27:17.750 --> 00:27:20.549
like you were creating social media content before

00:27:20.549 --> 00:27:26.190
social media existed. I mean... Like unintentionally.

00:27:26.210 --> 00:27:29.029
Yeah, I mean, I guess I could have... They could

00:27:29.029 --> 00:27:33.089
have been up on a blog or social media, but didn't

00:27:33.089 --> 00:27:35.710
have anywhere to put them. So what were you doing

00:27:35.710 --> 00:27:37.369
with them? When you would go to these shows and

00:27:37.369 --> 00:27:39.710
take all these photos, what would you do? At

00:27:39.710 --> 00:27:41.549
that point, I didn't really do much with them.

00:27:42.529 --> 00:27:47.289
But you kept them. I kept them, yes. That's,

00:27:47.289 --> 00:27:49.150
I feel like, the most important part of that,

00:27:49.250 --> 00:27:53.009
to be fair. Yeah, I kept them. And then when

00:27:53.009 --> 00:27:56.269
I moved back to Georgia, I started going to see

00:27:56.269 --> 00:27:59.789
more shows, like at the Cotton Club and Masquerade.

00:28:00.089 --> 00:28:03.650
Man, I saw Muse at the Cotton Club. Oh, nice.

00:28:04.529 --> 00:28:08.069
Before they were one of the biggest bands in

00:28:08.069 --> 00:28:11.170
the world. And the singer played three songs,

00:28:11.289 --> 00:28:13.690
and he fucking busted his lip open on his microphone.

00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:16.809
They canceled the rest of the tour. No! Over

00:28:16.809 --> 00:28:19.970
a busted lip? It was, dude, there was blood everywhere.

00:28:19.990 --> 00:28:22.490
Okay, yeah. There was blood everywhere. Must

00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:25.390
have been teeth involved. You will hear this

00:28:25.390 --> 00:28:28.150
weird vocal effects in this second microphone.

00:28:28.549 --> 00:28:32.349
I think it was almost like he was, you know,

00:28:32.369 --> 00:28:34.670
like... He, like, wrapped his lips around this

00:28:34.670 --> 00:28:36.329
microphone. Oh, man. I think there was, like,

00:28:36.329 --> 00:28:40.369
a piece of metal that caught it. Oh. Literally

00:28:40.369 --> 00:28:42.609
tore his lip in half. Oh. Because they canceled

00:28:42.609 --> 00:28:44.490
the rest of the tour. Man, that's pretty. Not

00:28:44.490 --> 00:28:49.809
just that night. And then they said, okay, we're

00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:53.170
going on tour with The Cure. Yeah. And if you

00:28:53.170 --> 00:28:55.849
bought a ticket to that Cotton Club show, you

00:28:55.849 --> 00:28:57.650
can either get a refund or you can come see us

00:28:57.650 --> 00:29:00.289
open for The Cure. And I think it was Hi -Fi

00:29:00.289 --> 00:29:03.150
Buy's amphitheater at that point. They'd been

00:29:03.150 --> 00:29:05.910
Lakewood, but then it became Hi -Fi Buys. Yeah.

00:29:06.269 --> 00:29:08.329
Whatever. I don't even know what the fuck it's

00:29:08.329 --> 00:29:13.069
called now, but I couldn't go. So I didn't get

00:29:13.069 --> 00:29:16.529
a refund, and I also couldn't go. So I've never

00:29:16.529 --> 00:29:19.130
seen The Cure, and I've seen the Muse play three

00:29:19.130 --> 00:29:23.730
songs at the Cotton Club. Which is, I'm like,

00:29:23.769 --> 00:29:27.849
dude, three songs at the Cotton Club? That's

00:29:27.849 --> 00:29:31.420
pretty cool. It's kind of legendary. Yeah. There

00:29:31.420 --> 00:29:34.200
was only like 50 of us there, I think. Yeah.

00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:38.279
People were still filtering in. Go on, it's over.

00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:41.279
I was there when Butch Walker toured as Achilles

00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.980
at them, too. So maybe I'm just a bad omen, man.

00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:45.839
I was like 13 when that happened. It's a good

00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.480
thing you didn't go to that Cure show. Robert.

00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:51.640
You know what I'm talking about, though. Like,

00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:53.740
Butch Walker, they were released Ready, Sex,

00:29:53.779 --> 00:29:56.599
Go. They were about to release Ready, Sex, Go.

00:29:56.700 --> 00:30:00.339
Marvelous 3 was. I'm at a music festival in Northern

00:30:00.339 --> 00:30:03.359
Alabama, like Jefferson Starship had played.

00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:08.319
Butch finished the fucking song with a torn Achilles

00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:14.259
tendon. Trooper. The only reason I'm thinking

00:30:14.259 --> 00:30:17.180
of all of that is just because there's these

00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:20.859
moments that I feel like people like you, me,

00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.720
Jen Bryant, we just happen to be there for. What

00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:28.019
does that feel like when that happens to you?

00:30:28.779 --> 00:30:30.819
Like, when you just happen to be in the right

00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:33.200
place at the right time for this, like, fucking

00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.599
amazing thing. Or horrible thing that ends up

00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:42.099
being at least interesting. Yeah, it's... Yeah,

00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:47.339
it's... I mean, it's... I guess I'm thankful.

00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:50.720
Like, I mean, not that something bad happens,

00:30:50.900 --> 00:30:54.329
but that... That shit's going to happen. Whether

00:30:54.329 --> 00:30:58.109
it's bad or good, it's still noteworthy in history.

00:30:58.549 --> 00:31:01.049
So it's like you're witnessing history, whether

00:31:01.049 --> 00:31:07.549
it be good or bad. I didn't take photos of this

00:31:07.549 --> 00:31:10.750
because they weren't allowing any photographers,

00:31:10.910 --> 00:31:15.910
but I saw Prince's last show, and I had no idea

00:31:15.910 --> 00:31:18.869
it was going to be his last show. Holy shit.

00:31:20.140 --> 00:31:22.859
And that was it. And, you know, it's one of those

00:31:22.859 --> 00:31:25.660
things, like, when I was there, I had no idea

00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:29.359
that was. Let me ask you this. As a photographer,

00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.640
had you known it was his last show, what lengths

00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.740
would you have gone to get a camera in? I mean,

00:31:36.779 --> 00:31:39.380
I had my phone with me. I took a photo of the

00:31:39.380 --> 00:31:42.440
stage before he took the stage. So I have a photo

00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:47.099
from the show at night. But, I mean, I saw photos

00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:50.200
that other people took. Great photos anyway.

00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:53.859
The one I saw was pretty good, but like they

00:31:53.859 --> 00:31:55.380
were... Did anyone look good right before they

00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:59.700
were about to die? He was dancing around. I mean...

00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:03.799
I'm just being an asshole. But I guess my point

00:32:03.799 --> 00:32:08.599
is like how dedicated, like how much of this

00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.220
is like, and I don't mean dedicated, but like...

00:32:11.529 --> 00:32:13.809
How much do you consider yourself like a guy

00:32:13.809 --> 00:32:15.450
that's in the right place in the right time with

00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:18.130
the camera? And how much do you consider yourself

00:32:18.130 --> 00:32:24.150
like a photojournalist? I mean, to go back to

00:32:24.150 --> 00:32:29.109
your question, like, I don't know. I mean, if

00:32:29.109 --> 00:32:32.150
I would have known, somehow knew that was his

00:32:32.150 --> 00:32:35.690
last concert ever, I may have, because basically

00:32:35.690 --> 00:32:39.430
they were, if you saw your... If they saw you

00:32:39.430 --> 00:32:41.009
with your camera out, you were kicked out immediately.

00:32:41.470 --> 00:32:45.190
So I may have tried to take a couple. But then

00:32:45.190 --> 00:32:49.990
also, yeah, maybe the last song. I don't really

00:32:49.990 --> 00:32:51.869
want to get kicked out of Prince's last show

00:32:51.869 --> 00:32:57.130
ever either. Right, right. Yeah, but I think

00:32:57.130 --> 00:33:00.130
we're actually exposing something interesting.

00:33:00.349 --> 00:33:03.690
Are you a fan or a photographer first? I'm a

00:33:03.690 --> 00:33:10.890
fan first. It's like, you know, I'd rather play

00:33:10.890 --> 00:33:16.069
by the rules, whatever rules and the art the

00:33:16.069 --> 00:33:19.710
band has. Like, I'm cool with whatever, even

00:33:19.710 --> 00:33:23.190
if I don't agree with whatever policies. You

00:33:23.190 --> 00:33:26.170
know, I've got to respect it. And sometimes it

00:33:26.170 --> 00:33:28.549
has nothing to do with the band or even the venue.

00:33:28.670 --> 00:33:32.089
It might be, like, an insurance policy or something,

00:33:32.309 --> 00:33:35.819
right? So at a certain point, you just stop questioning

00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:42.039
it. You're just like, okay, fine. And what's

00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.339
interesting is, I mean, there's some times where

00:33:44.339 --> 00:33:48.200
one of the things people don't realize maybe

00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:53.359
about shooting shows professionally is like it's

00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:58.099
a, it's, you don't really get to, there's like

00:33:58.099 --> 00:34:01.380
a lot of hoops you have to jump through. And

00:34:01.380 --> 00:34:04.599
sometimes it's just not worth it. Like, there's

00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:08.719
been shows where, you know, I got a photo pass,

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.239
but I ended up missing, like, half the show.

00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.079
Because I'm like, they didn't bring us in until

00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:17.639
halfway through the set, and so you're missing

00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:21.420
that. And then you have to put your camera gear

00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:23.679
up, so you're missing songs there. So, like,

00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:25.699
sure, you got to take photos of the show, but

00:34:25.699 --> 00:34:28.239
you only got to see, like, half the set. So is

00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.659
that worth it to you? And sometimes yes, sometimes

00:34:31.659 --> 00:34:38.239
no. There's been big acts that, you know, I'm

00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:40.960
like, okay, if I ever get a chance to see them,

00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:44.820
I'm going to see them as a fan first. Because

00:34:44.820 --> 00:34:47.880
when you've been at it long enough, you kind

00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:53.579
of know what people's rules are and all the hoops

00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:56.840
involved. Especially when you're operating in

00:34:56.840 --> 00:35:00.920
the same venues and kind of region. Yeah, like

00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:04.099
photographers talk. Well, and I've seen you travel

00:35:04.099 --> 00:35:07.579
from Tampa to Nashville just in like the last

00:35:07.579 --> 00:35:11.159
six months. Yeah. It's not like you were just

00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:14.659
stuck in this like small area, but yeah, I get

00:35:14.659 --> 00:35:18.679
it. It gets to be kind of like common knowledge

00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:23.380
among people. Almost just like hardcore fans

00:35:23.380 --> 00:35:28.599
of a band. Yeah. And so, like, Paul McCartney,

00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.239
for instance, I was like, okay, if I ever get

00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:34.380
a chance to see Paul McCartney, I'll go see him

00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:36.820
as a fan and not buy a ticket. I mean, buy a

00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:40.739
ticket and just go. And so I did that, and I'm

00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:42.699
like, if I ever get a second chance to see him,

00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:45.539
then I'll go through all the hoops. You know,

00:35:45.619 --> 00:35:48.000
that way I at least have that, I saw, like, a

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:51.219
whole show. and everything was good. So that

00:35:51.219 --> 00:35:54.840
way, if I miss out on a lot, then it's not like

00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:56.739
my only time that I ever got to see him and I

00:35:56.739 --> 00:36:00.599
missed out on all the stuff. So, um, and you

00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:06.099
know, and also, yeah, you just miss out on a

00:36:06.099 --> 00:36:08.639
good bit. I mean, you, most of the time you get

00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.940
a free ticket. So like you miss out, but you're,

00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.280
but it's not costing you anything. So you're

00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.219
not really like, so it's, it's a trade off. And

00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:20.099
there's sometimes, Sometimes there's bands that

00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:24.059
I like that I just, or even venues that I know

00:36:24.059 --> 00:36:26.559
their policies and I'm like, especially when

00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:28.239
it's like soundboard shoot where you have to

00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:31.000
be like way far back. Sometimes I'm like, it's

00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.460
not worth it. I want to see the show, but I would

00:36:34.460 --> 00:36:39.440
rather be up front than have to like, you know,

00:36:39.460 --> 00:36:42.039
like be way far back taking photos and then have

00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.340
to put, miss half the show. And so sometimes

00:36:45.340 --> 00:36:48.250
I just don't even bother with it. But there's

00:36:48.250 --> 00:36:54.030
other times where, you know, fans actually have

00:36:54.030 --> 00:36:59.650
a better, can take better photos than the professional

00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:04.050
photographers because there's been some shows

00:37:04.050 --> 00:37:06.909
where I didn't bother going through getting a

00:37:06.909 --> 00:37:09.670
photo pass and I just brought my little, I have

00:37:09.670 --> 00:37:12.889
a Fujifilm like point and shoot camera and I

00:37:12.889 --> 00:37:15.510
just get like a front row ticket. and I take

00:37:15.510 --> 00:37:20.909
my photos from the front row, and I don't have

00:37:20.909 --> 00:37:23.829
to deal with any of the hoops. I'm just there

00:37:23.829 --> 00:37:26.969
as a fan. I'm just taking photos. It just happens

00:37:26.969 --> 00:37:30.070
to be a nicer camera. So do you shoot on film?

00:37:30.909 --> 00:37:36.250
No, it's all digital. Cool. Did you at one point

00:37:36.250 --> 00:37:40.110
shoot on film and then switch to digital, or

00:37:40.110 --> 00:37:42.369
have you always shot digital? I mean, I've had

00:37:42.369 --> 00:37:45.639
a film camera. But I've always shot concerts

00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:53.280
with digital camera. So what point did you go

00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.920
from just loving music, wanting to take photos,

00:37:56.019 --> 00:38:00.119
to being more like, okay, I want to do this,

00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:06.760
like, regularly? I guess, I mean, when I moved

00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:10.099
to Athens. When did you move to Athens? Was it

00:38:10.099 --> 00:38:14.849
directly from Orlando? No, I moved, I was in

00:38:14.849 --> 00:38:20.469
Orlando in 2003, and then I moved back to, I

00:38:20.469 --> 00:38:22.690
was living with my parents, living with my parents.

00:38:23.789 --> 00:38:26.150
And then I was there for another couple years,

00:38:26.449 --> 00:38:32.409
and then in 2006, I moved to Athens. And so I

00:38:32.409 --> 00:38:36.489
was, before Athens, I was traveling to Atlanta

00:38:36.489 --> 00:38:40.150
or Athens. Where did you grow up? In Riverdale.

00:38:40.730 --> 00:38:43.110
Which is by, like, College Park, by the Atlanta

00:38:43.110 --> 00:38:46.949
airport, sort of. Yeah, so, like, not, like,

00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:50.110
super far away from any of this, but you weren't,

00:38:50.110 --> 00:38:52.630
like, in the middle of it all as a kid. No, I

00:38:52.630 --> 00:38:56.170
was, like, 15 minutes from Atlanta. But your

00:38:56.170 --> 00:38:58.989
parents were really into music, took you to shows,

00:38:58.989 --> 00:39:02.250
it sounds like. Yeah, they took me to country

00:39:02.250 --> 00:39:06.369
concerts, and, you know, they would play music

00:39:06.369 --> 00:39:09.340
around the house all the time. Do you think you

00:39:09.340 --> 00:39:13.099
still primarily listen to country or at least

00:39:13.099 --> 00:39:15.619
rock or southern rock? Or do you think that you've

00:39:15.619 --> 00:39:20.340
moved to listen to a lot of different stuff nowadays?

00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:25.039
Well, I mean, I mostly listen to stuff that's

00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:32.900
not country. But I still like that type of country.

00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.300
I don't really care for the pop. poppy country

00:39:36.300 --> 00:39:40.659
but but like the country that's more like honky

00:39:40.659 --> 00:39:48.099
-tonk and yeah or outlaw country yeah yeah I

00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:50.719
there's some bands that my parents never did

00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:53.179
take me to that I when they came through Athens

00:39:53.179 --> 00:39:55.500
like Dwight Yoakam I saw him at the Georgia Theater

00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:58.500
so and then like Willie Nelson never got to see

00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:01.019
him with my parents but so I still have a love

00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:06.460
for that music But, I mean, even when, even in

00:40:06.460 --> 00:40:09.639
my teens, I was still, you know, like I mentioned,

00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:11.420
Nine Inch Nails was, like, the first record.

00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:13.800
So, like, that's way different than country.

00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.079
I mean, I was listening to The Hate Machine a

00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:18.599
week ago when I was a player. So, like, don't,

00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:22.539
you're in good company. I get exactly what you

00:40:22.539 --> 00:40:28.420
mean because it's, like, Kane. Oh, from Slightly

00:40:28.420 --> 00:40:30.340
Famous Somebody? Yeah, from Slightly Famous Somebody.

00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:35.159
Kane Stanley. Last night, our conversation ended

00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:38.019
with, I was like, there's two kinds of music,

00:40:38.059 --> 00:40:40.440
and we just looked at each other, and in unison,

00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:45.260
we said, good music and bad music. Yeah. And

00:40:45.260 --> 00:40:48.360
it was just one of those, like, all right, I

00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:53.920
see you. But also, facts. Yeah. There's some

00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:59.559
music where... It's on your bucket list to shoot

00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:03.889
or see or both. Well... If you're in an ideal

00:41:03.889 --> 00:41:07.010
world, both at the same show, you get to stick

00:41:07.010 --> 00:41:10.610
your shit... You get three songs, and then you

00:41:10.610 --> 00:41:12.869
get to stick your shit in a locker. It takes

00:41:12.869 --> 00:41:18.309
you 30 seconds. So there's no hassle. You get

00:41:18.309 --> 00:41:20.289
your three songs, and then you enjoy the rest

00:41:20.289 --> 00:41:22.730
of the fucking show as a fan who's on your bucket

00:41:22.730 --> 00:41:25.530
list. Well, my bucket list, really, I mean, if

00:41:25.530 --> 00:41:29.010
I count bands that it's still realistic to be

00:41:29.010 --> 00:41:32.440
able to see, you know, like... Let's do, like,

00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:36.380
you know, ones that are alive and you're dead.

00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:43.159
Well, my alive one would be Raging Against the

00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:47.960
Machine. Nice. And, I mean, I had tickets to

00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.920
see them a couple years ago, and then Zach Day

00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:55.400
of the Roadshow tore his Achilles tendon, and

00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:59.860
then he sat. How did that do that? Were you at

00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:02.139
that show? Were you at that show where he toured

00:42:02.139 --> 00:42:06.199
it? No, I wasn't. The only Achilles tendon I've

00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:11.059
seen touring was Witch Walkers. But I do think

00:42:11.059 --> 00:42:14.679
it's weird that you had tickets and weren't sitting

00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.780
here now. Yeah, I had tickets to see him in Detroit,

00:42:18.019 --> 00:42:20.960
and he did some shows sitting down, and it was

00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.400
still great, even though he had to sit down.

00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:25.300
But then they canceled the rest of the tour,

00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:30.130
and now they're done. So, like, you know, I never

00:42:30.130 --> 00:42:32.570
know whether to really believe a band when they

00:42:32.570 --> 00:42:34.389
say they're done. I'll believe they're done when

00:42:34.389 --> 00:42:37.710
they're all dead. You know who I believe if they

00:42:37.710 --> 00:42:40.849
said they were done? Who? The Dropout Truckers.

00:42:40.889 --> 00:42:43.369
Because, like, they never pretended to be done.

00:42:44.150 --> 00:42:47.010
And I feel like they know that if they ever did

00:42:47.010 --> 00:42:52.130
say they were done, like, it would be traumatizing.

00:42:53.010 --> 00:42:54.869
To the point where they're like, we can only

00:42:54.869 --> 00:42:59.230
do this once. I say that because I think Rage

00:42:59.230 --> 00:43:03.250
actually is similar. I know other people that

00:43:03.250 --> 00:43:06.730
it's almost like a life goal just to see them

00:43:06.730 --> 00:43:12.030
live. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I could have probably,

00:43:12.190 --> 00:43:15.110
you know, like, it's weird because, like, I didn't

00:43:15.110 --> 00:43:18.949
start seeing shows regularly until, you know,

00:43:18.949 --> 00:43:22.510
93, 94. But I remember, like, when Rage Against

00:43:22.510 --> 00:43:24.429
the Machine was playing in Atlanta in, like,

00:43:24.429 --> 00:43:32.110
98 or whatever. I mean, I was 16, but I don't

00:43:32.110 --> 00:43:34.369
think my parents would have been down for it,

00:43:34.409 --> 00:43:36.230
but I could have technically driven to Atlanta

00:43:36.230 --> 00:43:39.010
to see them. But I think part of it was it didn't

00:43:39.010 --> 00:43:42.150
dawn on me that I could just drive and do it.

00:43:42.170 --> 00:43:47.190
I don't know. I think part of it was when I was

00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:52.630
in Orlando, we just went to see a show. What

00:43:52.630 --> 00:43:55.719
took you to Orlando in the first place? I had

00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:59.579
the college program at Disney World. Right. But

00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:02.119
you stayed after that, right? No, I would just

00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:06.360
say it was eight months. Yeah, from January to

00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:10.099
August. It sounds like that for eight months.

00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:12.119
Like, I thought you were there longer because

00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:17.719
it just sounded very productive for you. Do you

00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:21.679
consider yourself an artist? I mean, I think

00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.260
so to some degree. I mean, documentarian, like,

00:44:24.730 --> 00:44:27.469
Yeah, I mean, I struggle with this myself sometimes.

00:44:27.710 --> 00:44:31.050
I mean, there's some photos I take that I like,

00:44:31.110 --> 00:44:35.670
that really, like, have an artistic, you know,

00:44:35.670 --> 00:44:38.989
I think are more artistic than others. Do you

00:44:38.989 --> 00:44:41.369
approach that differently if you're trying to

00:44:41.369 --> 00:44:45.510
take, like, artistic photos versus, like, documenting

00:44:45.510 --> 00:44:50.309
something? Not really. I just try to frame it

00:44:50.309 --> 00:44:54.730
however looks good at the moment. But there are

00:44:54.730 --> 00:44:57.269
certain images that are more striking than others.

00:44:57.550 --> 00:45:01.469
Sure. But I'm not consciously doing that. Well,

00:45:01.650 --> 00:45:04.989
I think this actually plays into something I

00:45:04.989 --> 00:45:08.789
was talking about with Jen earlier. Just because

00:45:08.789 --> 00:45:12.789
it's not conscious or intentional, it's inherent.

00:45:13.429 --> 00:45:17.030
Whatever looks good to you can inherently be

00:45:17.030 --> 00:45:22.099
what. you end up taking a photo of and like the

00:45:22.099 --> 00:45:24.059
decision making might just happen at a different

00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:28.800
point in the process yeah that's true what i

00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:32.980
mean like it's like like jen was like i don't

00:45:32.980 --> 00:45:34.579
know what i did other than just be in the right

00:45:34.579 --> 00:45:37.059
place in the right time and i was like you had

00:45:37.059 --> 00:45:38.739
the wherewithal to be in the right place in the

00:45:38.739 --> 00:45:44.840
right time yeah yeah it's that's true it's like

00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:49.150
it's a yeah that i mean that's another like What

00:45:49.150 --> 00:45:52.489
I love about seeing live music so much is you

00:45:52.489 --> 00:45:54.789
never know what's going to happen. Like, anything

00:45:54.789 --> 00:45:58.929
can happen. I mean, I saw a band break up before

00:45:58.929 --> 00:46:02.489
they even hit the stage. I saw John Neff walk

00:46:02.489 --> 00:46:04.969
out in the middle of a band set last night. It

00:46:04.969 --> 00:46:08.429
was fucking weird. No, I'm just kidding. It was

00:46:08.429 --> 00:46:13.949
totally planned. He only had three sets that

00:46:13.949 --> 00:46:15.750
night. Yeah, he only had three sets yesterday.

00:46:16.309 --> 00:46:22.139
But also... Come on, John. I'm only saying that

00:46:22.139 --> 00:46:24.719
because John and I have known each other for

00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:29.719
like 15 years. And I've been trying to nail down

00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:32.519
the time to interview him this weekend. And obviously,

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.239
he's the busiest man in Athens this weekend.

00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.139
But every interview I've done has talked about

00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:43.260
him. So every time I see him, I'm like, hey.

00:46:44.190 --> 00:46:46.349
So last night, Slightly Famous Some Buddies and

00:46:46.349 --> 00:46:49.690
I decided that you're PJ Neff. The Java Neff.

00:46:50.269 --> 00:46:52.989
And he's like, yes. And then I'm like, today,

00:46:53.070 --> 00:46:55.630
I'm like, oh, it's Neff Fest, by the way. It's

00:46:55.630 --> 00:46:58.989
not F Fest anymore. It's Neff Fest. Yeah. He

00:46:58.989 --> 00:47:02.789
just laughed. But he's also, like, the most,

00:47:02.809 --> 00:47:05.329
like, hard person to, like, I mean, you know,

00:47:05.329 --> 00:47:08.269
because he's playing three shows, he's like,

00:47:08.389 --> 00:47:11.010
I don't know, like, when would I talk to you?

00:47:12.380 --> 00:47:13.900
That being said, I think we're going to talk

00:47:13.900 --> 00:47:20.179
tomorrow. Good. But being in the right place

00:47:20.179 --> 00:47:23.000
at the right time, I think, yeah, some of that's

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:26.739
luck. Some of that is knowing to be in the right

00:47:26.739 --> 00:47:28.480
place at the right time. I mean, sometimes you

00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.860
have a feeling something special might happen,

00:47:30.980 --> 00:47:36.039
but there's just no guarantee. But, yeah, I mean,

00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:38.440
I love, like I said, that's what I love about

00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:41.800
seeing live music is You ever know what's going

00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:44.199
to happen, you may... How often do you photograph

00:47:44.199 --> 00:47:46.239
something where you're like, I think this is

00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:49.239
incredibly special, and then nobody gives a fuck?

00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:53.679
Because I feel like that happens to me, just

00:47:53.679 --> 00:47:56.099
like a show that's going to happen. I'm like,

00:47:56.199 --> 00:47:59.579
can you believe these people are playing Tallahassee

00:47:59.579 --> 00:48:02.780
or whatever? There's definitely bands that I

00:48:02.780 --> 00:48:07.940
see that I get really excited about, but, you

00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:12.780
know, I... People don't have the same excitement

00:48:12.780 --> 00:48:16.440
I do. And I think today, you're like, we're so

00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:21.179
bombarded with just information from all different

00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:24.920
directions, it's hard to know what to pay attention

00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:29.719
to. But people recommend music to me, and I try

00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:32.340
to, like, you know, I say, I'll check that out,

00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:35.800
and I try to, like, right then and there add

00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:41.880
it to my, like, my playlist. to check out. But

00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:45.900
yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, there's definitely

00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:50.679
bands that I've, that have played Athens that

00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.000
I get really excited about. I'm like, can you

00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:56.199
believe they're playing? And then like, and then

00:48:56.199 --> 00:48:59.159
like, it'll be not many people there. I'm like,

00:48:59.179 --> 00:49:02.280
well, this is special for the hundred of us that

00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:04.360
are here, but they're probably never coming.

00:49:04.579 --> 00:49:09.949
I mean, like at the 40 watt or something. I'm

00:49:09.949 --> 00:49:11.690
just saying, when I feel that way in Tallahassee,

00:49:11.750 --> 00:49:14.449
there's like 12 of us there. Oh, well, I mean,

00:49:14.469 --> 00:49:16.610
that could happen in a smaller venue. But I think

00:49:16.610 --> 00:49:18.590
that's the difference between Tallahassee and

00:49:18.590 --> 00:49:22.329
Athens. It's like, even, like, 100 people at

00:49:22.329 --> 00:49:24.449
a show I gave a shit about in Tallahassee would

00:49:24.449 --> 00:49:28.170
be like, what the fuck, yeah. It's good up to

00:49:28.170 --> 00:49:31.650
this. Whereas in Athens, I can understand where

00:49:31.650 --> 00:49:35.590
that would be, like, really? Well, it depends

00:49:35.590 --> 00:49:38.929
on the venue. Like, 100 at the 40 -watt. Seems

00:49:38.929 --> 00:49:43.630
pretty sad looking. But 100 at Flickr, you know,

00:49:43.650 --> 00:49:45.989
that's packed out. You literally, I don't think

00:49:45.989 --> 00:49:48.409
you can fit more than like five more than 100.

00:49:49.070 --> 00:49:56.309
So if rage is on your bucket list, who was, all

00:49:56.309 --> 00:49:58.789
right, two questions. Who was the band that,

00:49:58.889 --> 00:50:02.070
or maybe not the band, but what was the moment,

00:50:02.130 --> 00:50:06.329
if there was one, where you realized, okay, this

00:50:06.329 --> 00:50:10.829
isn't just a hobby. People think this is important.

00:50:10.929 --> 00:50:13.409
Was it COVID or did it happen before then? I

00:50:13.409 --> 00:50:15.170
mean, I know you took it more seriously after

00:50:15.170 --> 00:50:18.809
COVID because people were relying on it a lot.

00:50:18.869 --> 00:50:23.230
Well, I guess it, I mean, COVID made me appreciate

00:50:23.230 --> 00:50:27.289
it for myself more, like, because I realized

00:50:27.289 --> 00:50:30.289
it could stop at any time. And so when shows

00:50:30.289 --> 00:50:33.300
started back, I started. I even started taking

00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:36.480
more photos at shows following COVID because

00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:40.039
I found myself wishing I had more photos of certain

00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:47.980
shows. But what kind of made me realize it was

00:50:47.980 --> 00:50:52.059
more than just taking photos and putting them

00:50:52.059 --> 00:50:58.079
up on my website was it wasn't necessarily, I

00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:00.019
mean, I love this band, but it wasn't the band

00:51:00.019 --> 00:51:04.380
itself. What happened was I took photos of this

00:51:04.380 --> 00:51:08.980
band, Bit Brigade. And they weren't called Bit

00:51:08.980 --> 00:51:12.760
Brigade at that time, but it was the same band.

00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:15.980
But I took some photos of them, and Flagpole

00:51:15.980 --> 00:51:20.300
here in Athens reached out to me and wanted to

00:51:20.300 --> 00:51:22.659
use one of my photos for a story they were doing

00:51:22.659 --> 00:51:26.880
on Bit Brigade. And that started a relationship

00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:31.480
with Flagpole of them coming to me. when they

00:51:31.480 --> 00:51:34.340
needed photos of local bands. And also, like,

00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:37.260
it probably boosted your confidence, too. Yeah,

00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:38.639
and, like, the fact that they're reaching out

00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:42.039
and they like the photos enough to want to publish

00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:46.219
them, that meant a lot. You knew to be there

00:51:46.219 --> 00:51:48.840
and take the photo. Yeah, and that gave me motivation

00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:51.659
to go to more shows because I was like, well,

00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:57.179
if this means... Because it happened to be where,

00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:01.510
like, I had the only photos of... these local

00:52:01.510 --> 00:52:04.269
bands in town and flagpole wanted to run stories

00:52:04.269 --> 00:52:07.929
and do things with these bands and so i was like

00:52:07.929 --> 00:52:12.289
well um so it just made me more motivated to

00:52:12.289 --> 00:52:16.010
go out more and more and then uh you know and

00:52:16.010 --> 00:52:18.510
then flag been working still work with flagpole

00:52:18.510 --> 00:52:21.070
on stuff and that's like nearly 20 years now

00:52:21.070 --> 00:52:27.329
and so that kind of and then a couple years after

00:52:27.329 --> 00:52:29.730
i started working with Did that allow you to

00:52:29.730 --> 00:52:32.230
invest in better equipment? When you started

00:52:32.230 --> 00:52:35.929
getting paid for photos, mentally, were you spending

00:52:35.929 --> 00:52:39.630
a lot of money on camera stuff? Or was it once

00:52:39.630 --> 00:52:41.369
it started making money, you were like, okay,

00:52:41.409 --> 00:52:44.610
I can reinvest some of this? So I had my point

00:52:44.610 --> 00:52:49.469
-and -shoot camera in 2004, 2005, and then I

00:52:49.469 --> 00:52:52.289
moved to Athens and started going to a lot more

00:52:52.289 --> 00:52:55.949
shows, and I was working for the University of

00:52:55.949 --> 00:53:00.679
Georgia. and the college of ed and they could

00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:04.579
check out equipment to people okay and so i started

00:53:04.579 --> 00:53:09.440
checking out the dslr to myself and so i would

00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:13.219
bring that to shows and then it was not really

00:53:13.219 --> 00:53:17.920
a lens that was good for concert photography

00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:22.480
it was like a kit lens so i took my tax return

00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:27.840
that year and put it toward like my first DSLR

00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:33.380
for night, and bought a DSLR, a Nikon DSLR, and

00:53:33.380 --> 00:53:37.500
then a lens and started using that. And then

00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:41.159
basically any money that I've made from photography,

00:53:41.219 --> 00:53:45.699
I just use it to put back into photography, whether

00:53:45.699 --> 00:53:53.099
it be new lenses or travel for shows or whatever

00:53:53.099 --> 00:53:59.989
it is. But, yeah, I mean, so Flagpole gave me

00:53:59.989 --> 00:54:02.489
a boost of confidence, and then a couple years

00:54:02.489 --> 00:54:09.369
after that, like in 2008, 2009, Paste Magazine,

00:54:09.849 --> 00:54:13.610
they reached out to me and asked me if I would

00:54:13.610 --> 00:54:17.309
like to contribute. They're online only now.

00:54:17.550 --> 00:54:21.010
Yeah, they were print at the time. I think it

00:54:21.010 --> 00:54:25.920
was quarterly maybe. Every other month, maybe.

00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:28.980
Yeah, I forget. The record store I worked at

00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:31.380
carried it, so I was reading it whenever we were

00:54:31.380 --> 00:54:34.739
slow. And so they asked me if I would like to

00:54:34.739 --> 00:54:36.900
contribute, and I was like, yeah, I would love

00:54:36.900 --> 00:54:43.239
to. And so ACDC was coming, just announced a

00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:45.679
tour, so I was like, all right, I'm going to

00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:50.320
swing big. So I asked if I could shoot ACDC as

00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:54.880
my first. assignment or coverage for paste and

00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:58.280
they're like okay so it wasn't printed in the

00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:01.960
magazine but it photos ran online and so that

00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:08.219
was like my first like big show yeah I got a

00:55:08.219 --> 00:55:12.239
first my first photo pass and yeah and so that

00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:15.539
was that Phillips arena so that I was like that

00:55:15.539 --> 00:55:17.579
was way bigger than anything that I had done

00:55:21.690 --> 00:55:23.409
The way I like to think about it is, like, the

00:55:23.409 --> 00:55:26.309
first time you walk through the forest, it's

00:55:26.309 --> 00:55:28.369
a little tough. You know, you got some vines

00:55:28.369 --> 00:55:30.989
to cut down. There might be some weeds with thorns

00:55:30.989 --> 00:55:33.730
that are going to cut your ankles. But the next

00:55:33.730 --> 00:55:36.070
day, if you walk that same path, like, all the

00:55:36.070 --> 00:55:38.250
shit you walked over is kind of already cleared

00:55:38.250 --> 00:55:42.929
through. So, like, after shooting ACDC and Phillips

00:55:42.929 --> 00:55:46.150
Arena, did you just find it to be kind of easier

00:55:46.150 --> 00:55:49.369
to just be in the moment, just be like, this

00:55:49.369 --> 00:55:55.619
is what I'm doing? Uh, I, it, it was sort of

00:55:55.619 --> 00:55:59.320
overwhelming. I mean, cause you know, I grew

00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:03.679
up on AC, listening to ACDC. So like it took

00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:07.449
me when I was up there. And they came out on

00:56:07.449 --> 00:56:09.949
stage, and Angus Young is right in front of me

00:56:09.949 --> 00:56:14.869
just, like, ripping it. Honestly, I had to, like,

00:56:15.010 --> 00:56:17.150
I was in a daze. I was like, I can't believe

00:56:17.150 --> 00:56:19.550
that's him right in front of me. And then I,

00:56:19.610 --> 00:56:21.909
like, wasn't taking any photos. I was just kind

00:56:21.909 --> 00:56:26.429
of sitting there with my jaw mouth open. And

00:56:26.429 --> 00:56:28.670
then I'm like, okay, I need to be taking photos.

00:56:29.250 --> 00:56:34.170
And then, you know, I took photos. But it did.

00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:38.539
You know, that first time, I was just like, I

00:56:38.539 --> 00:56:41.420
just couldn't believe it. Yeah. Because it was

00:56:41.420 --> 00:56:47.440
like, it went from local bands to small touring

00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:49.920
bands to, like, all of a sudden these legends.

00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:56.079
And I was just like, okay, now this is the next

00:56:56.079 --> 00:57:01.579
level. And so, like, but, I mean, it made me.

00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:04.980
The next time, I don't remember what my next

00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:08.380
big show was after that, but it did at least

00:57:08.380 --> 00:57:12.159
give me an idea of what to expect. It didn't

00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:16.079
chop all the vines and weeds down, but it made

00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:25.980
the path a little easier. Each band, each concert

00:57:25.980 --> 00:57:29.460
is a little bit different than the last. The

00:57:29.460 --> 00:57:32.099
band's going to have different rules, or the

00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:36.639
venue's going to be slightly different. One of

00:57:36.639 --> 00:57:38.760
the big things, and this is something I've talked

00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:43.719
about with bands that tour, as well as people

00:57:43.719 --> 00:57:50.500
like you and I that are just there, is a big

00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:53.219
part of it is learning to be adaptable. Yeah.

00:57:53.219 --> 00:57:55.139
And rolling with whatever the fuck's going on

00:57:55.139 --> 00:57:58.940
and just being cool with it. Yeah. That's definitely

00:57:58.940 --> 00:58:03.539
true. I mean, one of the big things about requesting

00:58:03.539 --> 00:58:08.300
photo credentials is... Accepting it when they

00:58:08.300 --> 00:58:14.639
say no. Accepting it and also not expect... Most

00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:16.559
of the time you don't get approved until the

00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:20.639
day before or the day of. So, like, you have

00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:25.219
to... And be mindful that, you know, you may,

00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:28.320
it may not work out. You may not know. You might

00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:30.480
not even go because you don't have tickets or

00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:36.679
anything. Yeah, so I've probably, I shot Depeche

00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:42.440
Mode in Atlanta. And they were at Lakewood. And,

00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:45.860
you know, I have my day job. So I'm sitting there,

00:58:45.860 --> 00:58:48.579
I bring my camera to the office in preparation

00:58:48.579 --> 00:58:53.820
of going. And, like, it hits 5 o 'clock, and

00:58:53.820 --> 00:58:56.760
I still don't have an approval. So I was like,

00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:59.800
okay, well, I'm just going to drive to Atlanta

00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:04.320
and hope that I have an email waiting on me saying

00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:08.300
I'm approved. So I drove to Atlanta, and I parked

00:59:08.300 --> 00:59:12.400
and checked my email, and thankfully I got approved,

00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.500
and it worked out. But I've also had... I've

00:59:17.500 --> 00:59:22.150
also had... I've also had situations where I've

00:59:22.150 --> 00:59:27.730
driven and I, now this is a lesson learned. Not

00:59:27.730 --> 00:59:31.530
that I actually, it's a lesson learned in that

00:59:31.530 --> 00:59:35.289
I, after that I started, okay, if I don't get

00:59:35.289 --> 00:59:41.190
an approval on the day of, if I'm going to make

00:59:41.190 --> 00:59:43.030
the drive to Atlanta anyway, I got to have a

00:59:43.030 --> 00:59:46.769
plan B because like, if I don't want to drive

00:59:46.769 --> 00:59:50.360
to Atlanta for nothing. so i try to find like

00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:56.659
another concert there's plenty so um so like

00:59:56.659 --> 00:59:59.519
i you know and i had that happen where i didn't

00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:02.420
get a i didn't hear anything i drove to atlanta

01:00:02.420 --> 01:00:06.659
parked at the venue opened my phone still nothing

01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:09.780
i'm like and it was sold out show so i couldn't

01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:13.320
even buy a ticket so i was like okay well um

01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:18.159
i guess i'm going to do my plan b and um and

01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:22.260
it worked out okay i mean it's not as i mean

01:00:22.260 --> 01:00:27.380
it's it kind of you know it doesn't hurt as bad

01:00:27.380 --> 01:00:29.840
or you know when you have when you still get

01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:32.019
to do something fun you're like not it's just

01:00:32.019 --> 01:00:37.880
not your primary thing but but yeah i've it's

01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:40.840
i've definitely learned that let's talk about

01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:42.880
these photo collages that you've been doing the

01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:44.480
last couple years you've been doing them for

01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:48.599
a number of venues around town And I see town

01:00:48.599 --> 01:00:53.260
happens, Georgia. At least three, not two, three.

01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:57.119
There's been three total, yeah. And then you've

01:00:57.119 --> 01:01:01.880
done AFEST, which I can go whatever. We know

01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:04.639
what it looks like. You already signed them all,

01:01:04.780 --> 01:01:07.519
so I couldn't even be like, will you sign it

01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:11.239
for me, Mike? I can sign it again. All right,

01:01:11.300 --> 01:01:13.059
I'll go get it. I'm going to have you do that.

01:01:13.420 --> 01:01:19.769
I'll hold you to that. But, alright. For those

01:01:19.769 --> 01:01:22.369
that don't know what I'm talking about, this

01:01:22.369 --> 01:01:26.070
man has taken photos from various venues and

01:01:26.070 --> 01:01:30.690
then orchestrated them into collages of the logos

01:01:30.690 --> 01:01:34.329
of said venues or events in the case of Atfest.

01:01:35.170 --> 01:01:37.869
Where did the idea for that come from? I mean,

01:01:39.250 --> 01:01:43.599
I think it's amazing. I think that's one of the

01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:46.079
coolest ways to commemorate an event or a venue

01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:50.739
or something that has so much going on. Oh, cool.

01:01:51.260 --> 01:01:55.320
Thanks. Yeah, so I've done three total. I did

01:01:55.320 --> 01:02:00.900
one for the 40 -watt, which was all photos that

01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:03.739
I had taken at the 40 -watt over the years. I

01:02:03.739 --> 01:02:06.239
did one at Caledonia, which is all Caledonia

01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:10.559
photos. And then recently I did the AthFest one,

01:02:10.619 --> 01:02:13.840
which is all photos of the AthFest throughout

01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:19.039
the years. Which year? How many AthFests? Just

01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:21.780
the one. Just this year was the first. How many

01:02:21.780 --> 01:02:26.239
AthFests have there been until, like, is this

01:02:26.239 --> 01:02:30.340
the 25th? I mean, there's been 26 total, but

01:02:30.340 --> 01:02:33.619
I've only been going to them since 2006. I mean,

01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:38.420
that's fine. We're only as old as we are. I think

01:02:38.420 --> 01:02:42.860
my first one was like 2010. But yeah, the 26th

01:02:42.860 --> 01:02:48.199
one in 2025. For the record of everything. Which,

01:02:48.219 --> 01:02:50.900
you know, I made an edition of 25 and I probably

01:02:50.900 --> 01:02:53.500
should have made an edition of 26 in hindsight

01:02:53.500 --> 01:02:56.739
because it was 26 years 20. But anyway. Fuck

01:02:56.739 --> 01:03:00.360
that 26 year motherfucker. That dude procrastinated.

01:03:00.980 --> 01:03:05.019
He didn't deserve it. But the idea came about.

01:03:06.090 --> 01:03:08.570
I can't quite remember where I saw it, but I

01:03:08.570 --> 01:03:13.909
saw someone that made a photo collage. And I'm

01:03:13.909 --> 01:03:16.590
like, that's really cool. I'm like, this idea

01:03:16.590 --> 01:03:20.230
of it's cool. And then I was like, I wish there

01:03:20.230 --> 01:03:23.929
was a way I could somehow do a photo collage.

01:03:24.409 --> 01:03:27.969
Are you like really into jigsaw puzzles or something?

01:03:29.010 --> 01:03:33.869
No. So I understand thinking it's cool. Like,

01:03:33.869 --> 01:03:37.530
I get that. Where does that turn into, I want

01:03:37.530 --> 01:03:41.550
to organize how many photos are in these collages?

01:03:42.929 --> 01:03:50.269
The at best one is over 700. So what makes you

01:03:50.269 --> 01:03:54.210
feel like, I want to organize 700 photos to make,

01:03:54.230 --> 01:03:58.550
like, the idea is awesome. It sounds like the

01:03:58.550 --> 01:04:04.250
work could be pretty tedious. Actually, I cheat

01:04:04.250 --> 01:04:08.869
a little. I want to take all of the odds out

01:04:08.869 --> 01:04:11.769
with AI. Okay. Yeah, it's going to be great.

01:04:11.969 --> 01:04:16.570
We're going to sound way smarter. But I use a

01:04:16.570 --> 01:04:20.389
program to... So I go through all the photos

01:04:20.389 --> 01:04:24.429
and I pick out my favorites from each AthFest

01:04:24.429 --> 01:04:30.469
year. And then I upload them to a website that...

01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:35.280
will actually do the work of compiling the mosaic.

01:04:35.539 --> 01:04:39.639
Like the color? Yeah, you upload them, you upload

01:04:39.639 --> 01:04:42.619
what you want your main image to be, and then

01:04:42.619 --> 01:04:45.619
you upload all the smaller images, and you have

01:04:45.619 --> 01:04:47.820
to crop them the way you want them to appear,

01:04:48.059 --> 01:04:51.460
mostly just people spaces. Like I said, it sounds

01:04:51.460 --> 01:04:56.519
pretty tedious. I'm not manually placing the

01:04:56.519 --> 01:05:02.800
photo tiles. All the locations, but the website

01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:08.539
figures out, based off the colors of the photos,

01:05:08.619 --> 01:05:13.219
where to place them. And it also, there's different

01:05:13.219 --> 01:05:16.360
settings you can do on how opaque you want the

01:05:16.360 --> 01:05:21.559
main image to be. And there's ways to tweak it.

01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:24.019
Isn't that really what we should be using technology

01:05:24.019 --> 01:05:27.599
for? Is like the tedious, the shit that I'm like.

01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:29.559
that would be really tedious. And you're like,

01:05:29.619 --> 01:05:33.880
no, I got like, I did the fun shit and the computer

01:05:33.880 --> 01:05:36.000
did the harsh, like the, the tedious bullshit.

01:05:36.000 --> 01:05:39.440
And then I was able to like, put my like vision

01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:43.099
on it. But at the end of the day, like the computer

01:05:43.099 --> 01:05:46.659
found the matching colors and the matching, you

01:05:46.659 --> 01:05:48.599
know, and, and, and helped me cross some things.

01:05:48.739 --> 01:05:53.159
But I'm just thinking about like AI generated,

01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:57.099
like fully generated things versus, you know,

01:05:57.739 --> 01:05:59.960
The fact that I still have to do my own fucking

01:05:59.960 --> 01:06:07.159
laundry. It's weird, right? So a common theme

01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:10.780
that's come up on this podcast is like, yeah,

01:06:10.820 --> 01:06:13.239
technology could be cool if it weren't for the

01:06:13.239 --> 01:06:16.980
fucking billionaires. I mean, I have a lot, you

01:06:16.980 --> 01:06:19.599
know, I work, my day job is in the IT world.

01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:23.219
So I have a love -hate relationship. Technology

01:06:23.219 --> 01:06:28.590
is nice when it works. I used to, so I was a

01:06:28.590 --> 01:06:32.530
TA for a class called Science and Film in grad

01:06:32.530 --> 01:06:35.329
school. And the first movie we'd show people

01:06:35.329 --> 01:06:39.110
was Jurassic Park. And then we'd ask them, if

01:06:39.110 --> 01:06:43.610
science was a character in Jurassic Park, is

01:06:43.610 --> 01:06:46.889
it good or evil? And, I mean, really, we were

01:06:46.889 --> 01:06:48.949
looking for an answer. And the answer was like,

01:06:49.050 --> 01:06:52.170
neither. It's what people do with science. Yeah.

01:06:52.730 --> 01:06:57.079
But, I mean, I think that's true with, The thing

01:06:57.079 --> 01:06:58.820
that's interesting about that is when you apply

01:06:58.820 --> 01:07:01.679
it to science, you're like, oh, that's true for

01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:04.780
art, of course. But it's also true for everything

01:07:04.780 --> 01:07:09.000
that's constructed by humans. Yeah. Whether it

01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:14.559
be nuclear power, environmentalism, photos. I

01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:16.579
mean, sometimes photos can be used for evil,

01:07:16.699 --> 01:07:20.760
right? Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't want to

01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:24.070
even get into examples of it, but I can. There's

01:07:24.070 --> 01:07:26.570
literally types of photographs that are inherently

01:07:26.570 --> 01:07:32.429
illegal. Yeah, yeah. So, like, at what point

01:07:32.429 --> 01:07:35.389
do you view anything that you're doing as, like,

01:07:35.389 --> 01:07:38.150
having moral value, or are you just like, I'm

01:07:38.150 --> 01:07:42.110
just fucking riding this wave, and I'm lucky

01:07:42.110 --> 01:07:45.530
to be here? I mean, I will say that some of the

01:07:45.530 --> 01:07:49.110
photo editing software that I use, well, the

01:07:49.110 --> 01:07:51.250
photo editing software I use has started adding

01:07:51.250 --> 01:07:56.210
AI, like, functionality to it how does that make

01:07:56.210 --> 01:07:59.369
you feel i mean it's i'm and i will just say

01:07:59.369 --> 01:08:01.630
like this is new to all of us so i mean any of

01:08:01.630 --> 01:08:05.849
us have like solid positions on any of it the

01:08:05.849 --> 01:08:09.389
way my feelings is if you can use it as a tool

01:08:09.389 --> 01:08:14.130
like it's all about i mean i this goes for photo

01:08:14.130 --> 01:08:17.130
editing too i don't really try to edit my photos

01:08:17.130 --> 01:08:22.989
that much some people they go In my opinion,

01:08:23.010 --> 01:08:26.390
they go way overboard with editing, and I try

01:08:26.390 --> 01:08:30.689
to have a light touch on it. Same, I think, applies

01:08:30.689 --> 01:08:35.449
for AI. Some things that I think are actually

01:08:35.449 --> 01:08:42.689
cool about it, or there's a plug -in, well, not

01:08:42.689 --> 01:08:45.609
plug -in, but a feature of Lightroom where you

01:08:45.609 --> 01:08:51.340
can make, let's say you take a photo and and

01:08:51.340 --> 01:08:54.420
you, you know, like, for instance, a photo that

01:08:54.420 --> 01:08:58.539
I took, like, 20 years ago, you can, and you

01:08:58.539 --> 01:09:02.300
want to make a big print of it, but the photo,

01:09:02.359 --> 01:09:05.560
the digital file is not, doesn't have enough

01:09:05.560 --> 01:09:09.760
resolution to be able to print it big. Yeah,

01:09:10.739 --> 01:09:13.439
you can, like, basically double the resolution

01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:16.600
of the image. I saw, I think there was, like,

01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:21.659
a whole series of World War... one or two footage

01:09:21.659 --> 01:09:23.420
that was shot in black and white that they've

01:09:23.420 --> 01:09:28.720
been able to colorize with AI. Spielberg directed

01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:33.180
a lot of it. But it's like, and I agree completely.

01:09:34.060 --> 01:09:38.399
You can use AI as a tool. I'll kind of sum it

01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:40.800
up with this and then give you a chance to promote

01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:43.619
anything you'd like to promote. Remember when

01:09:43.619 --> 01:09:45.319
our teachers told us we weren't going to have

01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:47.680
calculators in our pockets all goddamn time?

01:09:48.260 --> 01:09:51.920
Yeah. Did your photography teacher ever tell

01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:53.880
you that you weren't going to have a camera with

01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:58.300
you all the time? Well, I mean, I actually never

01:09:58.300 --> 01:10:02.399
had a photography teacher. That kind of makes

01:10:02.399 --> 01:10:07.619
my point. Is that certain things are just what

01:10:07.619 --> 01:10:14.319
we do. And humans document, categorize, whatever.

01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:18.939
And what I think is interesting about... both

01:10:18.939 --> 01:10:21.359
you and Jen Bryant who I talked to earlier today

01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:26.359
and myself I think we all have this in common

01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:29.100
it's like we just kind of like were ourselves

01:10:29.100 --> 01:10:32.819
loved what we loved and like stumbled into something

01:10:32.819 --> 01:10:37.960
kind of interesting yeah and um and what I would

01:10:37.960 --> 01:10:41.720
say about that is like be yourself and do what

01:10:41.720 --> 01:10:44.220
you want to do and hopefully like you're going

01:10:44.220 --> 01:10:45.720
to find your people and what you're supposed

01:10:45.720 --> 01:10:53.140
to be doing Yeah, I agree. I mean, I moved to

01:10:53.140 --> 01:10:58.220
Athens not knowing anyone. And I knew I loved

01:10:58.220 --> 01:11:00.279
music. I knew I liked photography. And I went

01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:05.319
out all the time. And I just instantly found

01:11:05.319 --> 01:11:09.239
this whole community that was welcoming to me.

01:11:09.380 --> 01:11:20.470
I was new to town and made so many friends. I

01:11:20.470 --> 01:11:22.869
make new friends every time I visit, man. It

01:11:22.869 --> 01:11:25.890
really is a magical place, isn't it? Yeah, it

01:11:25.890 --> 01:11:31.869
is. I mean, it was just wild that I got here

01:11:31.869 --> 01:11:34.869
and I would see a show and then I would talk

01:11:34.869 --> 01:11:37.310
to someone and be like, oh, my other band is

01:11:37.310 --> 01:11:39.869
playing next week. And so I would go see their

01:11:39.869 --> 01:11:42.590
other band and then I would meet two or more

01:11:42.590 --> 01:11:44.789
people and then they're like, oh, our other band.

01:11:46.060 --> 01:11:49.100
people in athens tip reason kevin bacon is like

01:11:49.100 --> 01:11:56.600
two degrees yeah yeah so it's it's wild to think

01:11:56.600 --> 01:11:58.739
it's almost been 20 years i've been here but

01:11:58.739 --> 01:12:02.899
i mean i've met so many really cool people and

01:12:02.899 --> 01:12:08.520
um and super talented people and you know it's

01:12:08.520 --> 01:12:14.350
just been really i find i just I still love going

01:12:14.350 --> 01:12:17.489
out there and taking photos and just taking photos

01:12:17.489 --> 01:12:27.310
of people doing what they do. People want to

01:12:27.310 --> 01:12:29.789
buy prints of your photos. Where can they find

01:12:29.789 --> 01:12:33.590
you online? Do you have that available? Yeah,

01:12:33.670 --> 01:12:39.789
you can go to www .deadlydesigns .com is my website.

01:12:40.409 --> 01:12:44.489
I basically upload everything that I've ever

01:12:44.489 --> 01:12:49.609
taken since 2006 is up there. You can order prints

01:12:49.609 --> 01:12:54.350
off the website too. If you're local to Athens,

01:12:54.750 --> 01:12:59.529
you can also go by Sealy's a couple of doors

01:12:59.529 --> 01:13:02.869
down from... Luxury Records, there's physical

01:13:02.869 --> 01:13:07.670
prints for sale there. And then if you would

01:13:07.670 --> 01:13:10.710
like to follow me on social media, I have Instagram,

01:13:11.029 --> 01:13:16.109
which is at Deadly Designs. And I'm posting photos

01:13:16.109 --> 01:13:19.149
there as well. I'll make sure there's links to

01:13:19.149 --> 01:13:22.489
all that in the description of the episode. Is

01:13:22.489 --> 01:13:23.989
there anything else you got going on like this

01:13:23.989 --> 01:13:26.350
summer that you think people should know that's

01:13:26.350 --> 01:13:30.229
happening? Or just... Even something like you're

01:13:30.229 --> 01:13:32.189
a big fan. Is there anything you're a big fan

01:13:32.189 --> 01:13:33.909
of that you think people should check out this

01:13:33.909 --> 01:13:37.489
summer? I mean, my favorite band, Nine Inch Snails,

01:13:37.550 --> 01:13:40.630
is going out on tour. So I'm excited about that.

01:13:40.829 --> 01:13:43.529
Let's go. So they're coming to Atlanta in September.

01:13:44.689 --> 01:13:48.170
So I'm looking forward to that. I actually have

01:13:48.170 --> 01:13:50.289
met a lot of friends through Nine Inch Snails.

01:13:50.310 --> 01:13:53.189
So I'm going to see some shows with them out

01:13:53.189 --> 01:13:55.329
on the West Coast. So I'm excited about that.

01:13:56.400 --> 01:14:00.220
You ever seen Weird Al perform Germs? I did see.

01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:04.640
It's like a style parody. Yeah, yeah. I did see

01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:11.060
him do that, like, kind of the non -parody, but

01:14:11.060 --> 01:14:15.500
the originals in the style of tour. Yeah, I saw

01:14:15.500 --> 01:14:17.880
that tour. I forget if they played that or not.

01:14:18.220 --> 01:14:22.239
It definitely did in one of them. Yeah, I think

01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:26.060
he did. I think he did. Yeah, yeah. I'll send

01:14:26.060 --> 01:14:28.699
you a music video. Okay. Because I know that

01:14:28.699 --> 01:14:31.460
they played Dare to be Stupid. That's like another

01:14:31.460 --> 01:14:33.359
one. I was wearing my Dare to be Stupid shirt

01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:37.039
last night. It's an old Dare shirt. Oh, nice.

01:14:37.159 --> 01:14:40.300
But instead of to keep kids off drugs, it says

01:14:40.300 --> 01:14:44.319
to be stupid. Nice. Are you going to see him

01:14:44.319 --> 01:14:48.279
on this tour? I think so. And I really want to

01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:53.060
talk to Puddles. Oh, yeah. Like, Puddles is opening

01:14:53.060 --> 01:14:57.359
the whole tour. I've seen him eight times. Weird

01:14:57.359 --> 01:15:02.100
Al is one of my first concerts. Not my first.

01:15:02.159 --> 01:15:05.800
I think my first was Merle Haggard and Leon Rimes

01:15:05.800 --> 01:15:11.819
at a festival in Swanee Music Park. And Merle

01:15:11.819 --> 01:15:16.060
was trashed. And I was like, maybe one day I'll

01:15:16.060 --> 01:15:21.000
marry Leon Rimes. Because I was like 11. She's

01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:23.899
like 14. That's not a stretch. It can happen.

01:15:24.020 --> 01:15:28.939
Yeah, exactly. But one of my, yeah, like the

01:15:28.939 --> 01:15:31.859
first concert that I ever really gave a shit

01:15:31.859 --> 01:15:36.140
about, like Weird Al. Nice. And one of the last

01:15:36.140 --> 01:15:39.800
concerts that I really gave a shit about was

01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:44.560
Weird Al. I love Weird Al. I mean, I've seen

01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:48.760
him three times, I think, now. Oh, yeah. Let's

01:15:48.760 --> 01:15:52.119
find a show in the fall. Let's go together. If

01:15:52.119 --> 01:15:53.619
you don't have tickets and I don't have tickets,

01:15:54.500 --> 01:15:57.800
let's find a show. Let's do it. Sounds good.

01:15:57.819 --> 01:16:00.819
I know he's playing New Orleans, St. Augustine.

01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:06.020
Yeah, I know that he's... I'm hoping to get to

01:16:06.020 --> 01:16:09.220
take photos of the Charlotte show. I know that's

01:16:09.220 --> 01:16:12.880
kind of a wage from you, but... I mean, if Puddles

01:16:12.880 --> 01:16:15.000
wants to talk to me, I can go anywhere in the

01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:18.760
country. Mike, it's been fucking awesome talking

01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:20.720
to you, man. Is there anything else you'd like

01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:23.600
to say before we cut this off? The thing is,

01:16:23.659 --> 01:16:25.560
I think I could just talk to you all night and

01:16:25.560 --> 01:16:28.319
drink beers and, you know, whatever. But, you

01:16:28.319 --> 01:16:33.260
know, we've had a long weekend, man. No, other

01:16:33.260 --> 01:16:36.260
than, yeah, thank you for having me. And it was

01:16:36.260 --> 01:16:39.140
great to talk with you. Awesome. Well, check

01:16:39.140 --> 01:16:41.500
out Deadly Designs. I'll have everything linked

01:16:41.500 --> 01:16:46.000
in the description. I guess the last thing I'll

01:16:46.000 --> 01:16:48.939
say is, like, how did you get, like, the AthFest

01:16:48.939 --> 01:16:51.699
photographer, like, official AthFest photographer

01:16:51.699 --> 01:16:54.520
gig? Was that just because you've worked with

01:16:54.520 --> 01:16:57.680
flagpoles so much over the years and they finally

01:16:57.680 --> 01:16:59.979
knew who to hire? Or, like, what's going on?

01:17:00.199 --> 01:17:06.060
Well, so I started as the official AthFest photographer.

01:17:06.500 --> 01:17:09.140
This is my third year. Third year, okay. And

01:17:09.140 --> 01:17:11.439
previously they didn't have an official photographer.

01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:14.159
So did you? create that job for yourself? Well,

01:17:14.239 --> 01:17:20.100
they had interns do it, and Mary Joyce, who's

01:17:20.100 --> 01:17:22.800
the executive director of FFS Educates. She's

01:17:22.800 --> 01:17:24.579
been wonderful every time I've interacted with

01:17:24.579 --> 01:17:28.039
her this weekend. She's great. She became executive

01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:30.960
director, and one of the things that she wanted

01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:35.539
was to have an official photographer and an official

01:17:35.539 --> 01:17:38.279
videographer, just because that was something

01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:44.319
that they didn't have. And I had seen Mary play

01:17:44.319 --> 01:17:47.840
in various bands over the years. Can you name

01:17:47.840 --> 01:17:51.479
a couple of them? Maximum Busy Muscle was one

01:17:51.479 --> 01:17:53.699
of them. That's a fucking cool name. Awesome

01:17:53.699 --> 01:17:58.539
band, awesome name, awesome people. I don't think

01:17:58.539 --> 01:18:03.880
they're an active band right now. And she was

01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:08.539
also in a band called the Incendiaries. Yeah.

01:18:10.989 --> 01:18:16.590
And so when the idea of having an official photographer

01:18:16.590 --> 01:18:22.409
came up, she thought of me. And we had kept in

01:18:22.409 --> 01:18:25.210
touch over the years. And so she reached out

01:18:25.210 --> 01:18:27.350
and asked me if I was interested. She's like,

01:18:27.409 --> 01:18:30.050
well, you're already doing it. She's like...

01:18:30.050 --> 01:18:32.010
I just want to make it official. Yeah, because

01:18:32.010 --> 01:18:37.350
I was... Before that, I was taking photos for

01:18:37.350 --> 01:18:40.619
Flagpole. I think they had... A few people taking

01:18:40.619 --> 01:18:43.100
them. For a while, I would take them just for

01:18:43.100 --> 01:18:45.159
flagpole, but then they got someone else, so

01:18:45.159 --> 01:18:49.039
I was taking kind of supplemental photos. But,

01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:51.060
I mean, I've been taking photos to some degree,

01:18:51.239 --> 01:18:55.239
you know, almost every year. But, yeah, so she

01:18:55.239 --> 01:18:56.939
reached out and asked me if I was interested.

01:18:57.479 --> 01:19:00.479
And I was like, yeah, of course. Does the Pope.

01:19:03.060 --> 01:19:05.600
It's been fucking awesome talking to you, man.

01:19:05.699 --> 01:19:07.760
Thank you so much. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank

01:19:07.760 --> 01:19:10.279
you for having me. Check out Deadly Designs.

01:19:10.279 --> 01:19:14.020
All the photos, the design, you know. I'm going

01:19:14.020 --> 01:19:15.579
to have everything linked in the description.

01:19:15.699 --> 01:19:19.800
I'm going to stop talking. Bye. That was my interview

01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:23.979
with Mike White. He and I are definitely kindred

01:19:23.979 --> 01:19:26.659
spirits. We're going to go try and see Weird

01:19:26.659 --> 01:19:29.560
Al together at some point. Hope you enjoyed this

01:19:29.560 --> 01:19:34.560
episode. Check out his photography. Everything's

01:19:34.560 --> 01:19:37.859
linked in the descriptions. Deadly Designs. Don't

01:19:37.859 --> 01:19:41.680
miss out. He's got prints for sale. And I've

01:19:41.680 --> 01:19:44.439
got that collage sitting right here. And let

01:19:44.439 --> 01:19:48.020
me tell you, it's pretty incredible. It was a

01:19:48.020 --> 01:19:51.300
pleasure talking to him. I hope it was a pleasure

01:19:51.300 --> 01:19:53.579
listening. Y 'all have a great week.