Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed. I'm
Fettin. I've got a really cool episode this week
with Mike White, a rock photographer who really,
he's photographed some of the biggest names in
the world. Paul McCartney, Radiohead, U2, REM,
ACDC, Nine Inch Nails, Sonic Youth, Soundgarden,
Philip Glass, Depeche Mode, New Order. The list
goes on. photographed most everybody that I've
interviewed on this podcast, at least musician
-wise. He's done a lot of photography for Slightly
Famous Somebodies. He does the photography for
Sloan Brothers. Anyway, we talked at the end
of AthFest. He was the official AthFest 2025
photographer, and I was out in the sun all day
as well. It was hot. We were exhausted, but I
think we just fed off each other's energy and
we ended up having a really great conversation
despite our exhaustion. But if you hear a little
bit of hoarseness in my voice and a little bit
of exhaustion in my tone, just understand that
it was super hot all weekend and Sunday all the
shows were outside. I met with Jen Bryant, and
then I went and saw a bunch of shows, and Mike
and I got together about 9 o 'clock that night.
So anyway, without further ado, here's my interview
with Mike White, photographer. Thanks for listening.
All right. Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed.
I'm here with Mike White, graphic designer, photographer,
visual artist. how to label you, because you
seem to do so much. What do you, like, if somebody
asks you, like, what do you do in terms of art,
like, how do you answer them? I mean, the whole
reason I got in to take, I mostly take, like,
live concert photos and photos related to music
in some way, and really the way I got into that
is I was already going to shows. And I like photography,
so I figured why not combine them. You know,
it kind of gave me like kind of a purpose other
than just being an attendee. And then that gave
me also a way to give back to the music community,
like share my photos with the artist. And so
really, I mean, at this point, it's... I mean,
I've been doing it for 20 years now, so I didn't
have the idea of it being a historical record
of sorts, but enough time passes, and then you
look back and you see how much things have changed
since you started, especially documenting one
scene, and you're like, wow, that band doesn't
exist. Those people have passed away. They're
no longer with us. And being in a college town,
you know, bands come and go. There might be a
band that you fall in love with, and then they're
gone in six months. And it's nice to have some
sort of documentation that that band existed,
because they may... They may not ever get into
the studio. Yeah, yeah, that definitely has been
the case. And, you know, and so it's nice that
I've had several people tell me, we're very thankful
for your photos because there's nothing else
that proves we existed, really. That's a trip.
I'm like, well, right. So, like, I mean, as far
as these days, I mean, I still do it because
I love doing it. I love this. and musicians in
general, I'm not a musician, so I have an appreciation
of the people that can do something I can't do,
and so just being able to document them doing
their thing, and, you know, and I've, yeah, it's
just... I guess I wasn't really going into it.
I didn't really realize the value it would have
until later on. I was just, it was more, I'm
at a show, I want to document it, I want to share
my photos with the bands. And then, now 20 years
later, you know, they're like, hey, we're running
an exhibit on the house. The house show was seen
in Athens. Do you have any photos of these venues?
And I was like, yeah. And in town there was this
venue called the Ultramod. And I took photos
there. I only got to see a couple shows there,
but I took photos. And in between bands. I was
just killing time, so I walked around and just
took photos of the back of doors. It was plastered
with old show flyers, and it was just the general
vibe. And 20 years later, not thinking anything
would come of it, they were of use for a museum,
like the Special Collections Library here used
them. So you just never know. But yeah, I...
How often do you think you do know that what
you're taking a photo of is something like that?
That is like significant in some way to somebody
or, okay, this is just another night. Do you
have any sense of that or is it kind of just...
I mean, there's sometimes just because of the
nature of the event, you know, it's like a one
-off thing. Right. That happens a lot in the
city. Yeah, so you know, like, one thing that
comes to mind is last year when Michael Shannon
did his REM tribute. And at that particular show,
all the members of REM got on stage together
for the first time in 18 years. Yeah, and so
like that, I knew that was a big deal in the
moment. And, yeah, so probably it's fairly rare.
Most of the times it's just another show or event.
But sometimes you just know. And then you realize
later that it was really important to somebody.
Yeah. You just never know the meaning of something
to somebody. And, you know, like. I've unfortunately
I've taken photos of shows and then a week later
the person passed away and you're like you had
no idea like you have some of the last photos
in the live or performing yeah and so you don't
even know that yeah I mean obviously you don't
know but at that in that situation so yeah and
it it also makes you I mean sometimes it's a
You know, I have a day job, and so I'm trying
to balance my day job with going out at night.
So sometimes it can be a challenge to find it
to go out. Yeah, for sure. But once I'm out,
I'm very happy I'm out there. Man, I can relate
to that. Sometimes you're just sitting at home
like, fuck, I know I should go. I know I should
go. The moment you make the call to go. You're
always glad you did. Yeah. You're always glad
you went to the show. It's just like getting
up. I have a kitty, so the kitty's on my lap.
I'm on my couch. I'm like, all right, let's do
it. We got to go. But, yeah, another thing that
really, you know, when the lockdown happened
in 2020 and music stopped for a year and a half,
all those photos I had became. I guess more important,
like, you know, you just, yeah, memories. And
also like up until that point, it was just a
given that you would always have concerts. You
would always go out, you would always be able
to do this. And then all of a sudden it stopped
for a year and a half. And, and then for like
a while after that, it was kind of, it, things
could shut down again. Tours were being canceled.
And so I, um, During that time when music wasn't
happening. I look back through my archive and
just kind of brought back Yeah, I appreciate
it I mean so many memories were triggered from
just looking at the photos things I would have
never remembered otherwise and And then so when
music did start back I tried to appreciate and
I mean, I try to be present anyway, but I try
to even be more present in the moment, you know?
And it sounded to me like it does, but do you
think that, like, taking photos was, like, part
of how you were able to stay present at shows
in the first place? Uh, yeah. I mean, it's...
Like, don't give me an example. Like, I've got
ADHD. Uh -huh. And it's never that I'm bored.
But sometimes I just want to have something to
do, man. Yeah. I mean, it does give me a sense
of purpose. And that's another reason that is
motivation for me to get out there. I'm like,
okay, well, these photos, I need to take these
photos. Not that people are necessarily relying
on them and asking me for them. And then all
of a sudden they did, though. Yeah. Like COVID
hit, and it sounds like all of a sudden. everybody
kind of was relying on you for your photos that
you had taken already. Yeah, it's hard to say
how many shows, because I take photos of almost
every show I go to, so it's hard to say how many
shows I would actually go to. Probably, maybe
nearly as much. But I definitely, I mean, there
are some trade -offs with taking photos. I don't
get to be as social, really, as I normally would.
We've texted this weekend infinitely more than
we've seen each other face -to -face, and we've
been at the same music festival. Yeah. I mean,
that's exactly right. I get it. Because even
if somebody sees you, they're not going to be
like, hey, because you're in the middle of taking
photos. Yeah. Like, nobody's going to interrupt
you from your work. Yeah. Unless they're just
really drunk. Well, it's, I mean, it's, you know,
like if I'm going to see a show, like at the
40 Watt or something, I usually get there early.
Yeah. And I just, depending on the show, I usually
go straight up the front and I just sit there.
Like, I got to, like, claim my spot. I'm always
of the mindset of. I don't want to be one of
those photographers that, like, shows up at the
last minute and, like, shoves their way to the
front. You know, I don't want to be rude. What's
the difference for you when you have, like, a
media pass or something like that or you're,
like, sent on an assignment for an article? Because
I know you get commissioned to do things like
that a lot. Also, like, you just go to shows
and take photos. How do you approach that differently?
Well, a lot of times if you, not all the time,
but... Sometimes if you have a photo pass, a
media pass, there's a photo pit. So normally
it's like the first three songs. You get three
songs up front, and then you go out into the
crowd. So there's less of an urgency to get there
super early because you know that you can just
get into the photo pit. be a little bit more
present and take better photos instead of worrying
about, like, all these other things? Or is it
just nice? It actually, it's nice, but when I'm
limited to three songs, it's almost like I don't
even hear the music because it's such a, like,
I mean, I, like, got three songs. That's all
I have, so I got to make sure I make the most
of these three songs. And then you join the show.
Yeah, I can't. Sometimes the three songs is over,
and if you would have asked me what songs they
played, I would have no idea because I'm just
in the zone. There's other nerds in the audience.
Setlist FM isn't run by a photographer. But for
the rest of the time, I can't take photos, so
I can put my camera away, and then I'm just enjoying
the show. You're not even allowed to. take photos
from the crowd with your professional camera
after that typically um depends but i mean it
depends like sometimes you can shoot the first
three up up front and then you can shoot from
the house the rest of the show some other times
you have to put your camera gear up in your car
after your first three for like you know like
bigger shows like arena and and like um but they
allow you to do that Yeah, I mean, sometimes
they have like a locker that you can check in.
So I'm thinking about what you just said combined
with that fact, and I'm like, that actually sounds
pretty fucking great. Because if you're forced
to not worry about it the rest of the night,
then you really do just get to be present and
enjoy the show. And like this all started with
you just being a fan, right? Yeah. Same with
me. I have a theory, joke, whatever. It's a funny
theory, I suppose you could call it. All rock
stars are wannabe comedians. But all comedians
are wannabe rock stars. I can see that. And I
think something that I'm already seeing that
you and I have in common, and you, I, and Jen
Bryant have in common, is first and foremost,
we're just music fans. Yeah. And then we try
and do something productive with that. I'm going
to ask you the same question I've asked everybody
that's been on this podcast, and I will tell
you, it has given an array of answers. There's
not a wrong answer. It'll lead somewhere interesting.
What's the first song you remember loving, like
as a child? My first song that I ever really
loved... is actually a pretty questionable song
for probably a two -year -old alike, but it's
the correct answer to your question, and that's
Baby's Got Her Blue Jeans On by Mel McDaniel.
Do you know that one? I do. I've never heard
of anybody knowing what their favorite song was
at two years old. That's kind of amazing. I mean,
it was released in 1984. I was born in 82. Maybe
I... Maybe a little, yeah. It may have been a
little shortly after, but it was on the radio,
and I just loved that song. My parents, I grew
up... Do you remember asking who did it and stuff
like that? I mean, I didn't find out until way
later who actually the artist was. I just, I
mean, I would sing along with it when I was a
little kid. I gotcha. So it didn't matter who
it was by. You just loved the song. Yeah, yeah,
and like... you know it was until years later
that i actually revisited the song and read the
lyrics and i was like this is not an appropriate
song especially for like a two to three year
old um but that you know my i remember my mom
got the cassette i think and she would play it
and i would sing along and It was just on the
radio, and I would get really excited whenever
it came on the radio. What was the first thing
that you went and got from the record store,
like for you? Whether your parents took you or
on your own, but you remember you were like,
okay, I want to get this. I want this for myself.
It was probably, I mean, one of the first records
that I really wanted was Nine -inch snails, a
downward spiral. Oh, yeah. And that was, like,
94 or so. Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, is at
that point, they had the, you know, the... Definitely
not for 10 -year -olds. Yeah. Or 12 -year -olds.
So my mom had to buy it for me. Oh, yeah. So,
and she's like, does this have any cussing in
it? And I was like, well, yeah. And she's like,
does it have a lot? I'm like, not anymore. Then
I hear her day to day. She's like, okay. And
so, but yeah, so she bought it for me. But I
mean, I grew up with country and like country
music mostly and like 60s and 70s like pop music
basically. Did you ever like rebel against that
stuff or did you kind of consistently like it?
I embraced it. I mean, I liked it. and that was
also i'm an only child my parents would go see
concerts in the 90s and uh and so they would
take it was easy enough for them to buy me a
ticket and so i went to concerts all through
like eight years old and up What was your first
concert that you remember? Do you remember? Yeah,
I had to look it up because they all kind of
ran together. But then I'm like, I got to figure
out what my first one was. And I figured it out
that the first concert was Dolly Parton and Kenny
Rogers at the Omni in Atlanta. Holy shit. That's
wild. And that was 1990. Only thing I remember
from that show is they came and they sang Islands
in the Stream together and people just lost it.
It was one of those sit down, it was one of the
shows where you sit down and fan yourself shows.
But once they started that song, they like got
up and started dancing. And so, yeah, I always
remember that. And so, yeah, that had to be my...
Did you take a picture at that show? No. Any
kind? No. Any camcorder or anything like that?
Nothing? Sadly, no. I'm curious because when
did you start taking pictures, whether it was
in music or otherwise? When were you like, okay,
taking pictures is fun? Well, I didn't. This
didn't start. There wasn't, like, consistently
taking photos after this point, but my first
concert photo was at one of those country concerts
that my parents took me to, and that was Diamond
Rio. That was, like, 93. My Maria? Was that their
song? Yeah, and they had that Meet in the Middle
song, too. My Maria, though. Yeah. I could be
wrong. I think that's them. I'm going to look
it up what we do. I feel like it might be like
Brooks and Dunn. Maybe that is Brooks and Dunn.
I saw them too. But yeah, so there was a, you
know, the place that we would see concerts at,
they would let people just come up and take photos.
My mom gave me her 35 millimeter camera and I
went up and took some pictures of Diamond Rio.
But I always... like taking photos with my mom's
camera on vacations and stuff, but I really didn't.
Maria's works and done, but there was like How
Your Love Makes Me Feel, One More Day, Beautiful
Mess, and I Believe, all in the span of like
five years that they put out from 97 to 2003.
The Diamond Rio song? I thought they had stuff
earlier. Yeah, the Meet Me in the Middle was
91. Okay. But then they had 32 more songs between
then and 2006, and four more of them hit number
one. Wow. How Your Love Makes Me Feel, One More
Day, Beautiful Mess. But Meet Me in the Middle,
I think, is the one that... I think they were
touring on that album. Yeah, 91. Yeah, it was
around that. around that time yeah i think i
don't yeah i so i'm a visual guy i don't know
i'm guessing you are is that the one uh yeah
i remember the they were selling those shirts
with that design yeah so i took photos of that
but then like really i didn't um I didn't start
taking photos regularly until in 2003. I did
a college program at Disney World in Florida,
which you're familiar with. I am. I even have
jokes about Disney World. I'll send you the clip
after. All right. I'm a Disney nerd. You'll get
the jokes. So I went down there to do a college
program, and I bought a little point -and -shoot
camera because I was like, oh, I want to document
my time during this college program. So I took
photos every day during that college program,
mostly just me and my roommates goofing off,
but of the parks and people that we met and all
that stuff. And so during... During the college
program, we went and saw some shows at the House
of Blues in Orlando. I saw Weird Al there. That's
cool. I was like 13. Nice. I mean, I've seen
him eight times, but I'm taking my kid to see
him. That's awesome. I think that was the first
time I ever saw him was the House of Blues. That
was cool. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. It's on the
Universal thing, right? Yeah, it was previously
called Downtown Disney. Oh, Disney. Sorry, not
Universal. And now they call it something else.
Universal has another one now. What is it? Yeah,
they basically made their version of it. Another
venue kind of thing. Oh, yeah. There's a Hard
Rock Cafe. That's exactly what it is. And that's
where I saw Weird Al. oh okay yeah okay well
yeah no they have hard rock live oh yeah yeah
yeah house of blues at disney okay i saw a newfound
glory in 1999 at the house of blues in orlando
wires crossed so it's still around yeah so as
part of the taking photos every day as part of
that disney program i took my point -and -shoot
camera to those concerts I went to at the House
of Blues. And then when the program was over,
I came back and really just got energized about...
I had seen concerts, like, before that on my
own, but, you know, like, a couple a year, not,
like, too many. But then once I moved back, I
got, like, really invigorated about seeing music.
So did photography help you want to see more
shows? I guess so. And it was also like, I had
one of my roommates at Disney was this guy named
Drew. And he's from the Portland area. And so
he turned me on to a lot of indie stuff that
I just wasn't familiar with. And he was going
to shows. About what time of, like, what year?
This is 2003. Okay, so you're living in Orlando
around 2003, working at Disney, you've got roommates,
taking photos, but blogging is not really quite,
I mean, it's kind of a thing at that point, but
certainly no YouTube or TikTok or social media
didn't exist. I mean, there's MySpace then. Barely.
Barely. The reason I say that is it almost sounds
like you were creating social media content before
social media existed. I mean... Like unintentionally.
Yeah, I mean, I guess I could have... They could
have been up on a blog or social media, but didn't
have anywhere to put them. So what were you doing
with them? When you would go to these shows and
take all these photos, what would you do? At
that point, I didn't really do much with them.
But you kept them. I kept them, yes. That's,
I feel like, the most important part of that,
to be fair. Yeah, I kept them. And then when
I moved back to Georgia, I started going to see
more shows, like at the Cotton Club and Masquerade.
Man, I saw Muse at the Cotton Club. Oh, nice.
Before they were one of the biggest bands in
the world. And the singer played three songs,
and he fucking busted his lip open on his microphone.
They canceled the rest of the tour. No! Over
a busted lip? It was, dude, there was blood everywhere.
Okay, yeah. There was blood everywhere. Must
have been teeth involved. You will hear this
weird vocal effects in this second microphone.
I think it was almost like he was, you know,
like... He, like, wrapped his lips around this
microphone. Oh, man. I think there was, like,
a piece of metal that caught it. Oh. Literally
tore his lip in half. Oh. Because they canceled
the rest of the tour. Man, that's pretty. Not
just that night. And then they said, okay, we're
going on tour with The Cure. Yeah. And if you
bought a ticket to that Cotton Club show, you
can either get a refund or you can come see us
open for The Cure. And I think it was Hi -Fi
Buy's amphitheater at that point. They'd been
Lakewood, but then it became Hi -Fi Buys. Yeah.
Whatever. I don't even know what the fuck it's
called now, but I couldn't go. So I didn't get
a refund, and I also couldn't go. So I've never
seen The Cure, and I've seen the Muse play three
songs at the Cotton Club. Which is, I'm like,
dude, three songs at the Cotton Club? That's
pretty cool. It's kind of legendary. Yeah. There
was only like 50 of us there, I think. Yeah.
People were still filtering in. Go on, it's over.
I was there when Butch Walker toured as Achilles
at them, too. So maybe I'm just a bad omen, man.
I was like 13 when that happened. It's a good
thing you didn't go to that Cure show. Robert.
You know what I'm talking about, though. Like,
Butch Walker, they were released Ready, Sex,
Go. They were about to release Ready, Sex, Go.
Marvelous 3 was. I'm at a music festival in Northern
Alabama, like Jefferson Starship had played.
Butch finished the fucking song with a torn Achilles
tendon. Trooper. The only reason I'm thinking
of all of that is just because there's these
moments that I feel like people like you, me,
Jen Bryant, we just happen to be there for. What
does that feel like when that happens to you?
Like, when you just happen to be in the right
place at the right time for this, like, fucking
amazing thing. Or horrible thing that ends up
being at least interesting. Yeah, it's... Yeah,
it's... I mean, it's... I guess I'm thankful.
Like, I mean, not that something bad happens,
but that... That shit's going to happen. Whether
it's bad or good, it's still noteworthy in history.
So it's like you're witnessing history, whether
it be good or bad. I didn't take photos of this
because they weren't allowing any photographers,
but I saw Prince's last show, and I had no idea
it was going to be his last show. Holy shit.
And that was it. And, you know, it's one of those
things, like, when I was there, I had no idea
that was. Let me ask you this. As a photographer,
had you known it was his last show, what lengths
would you have gone to get a camera in? I mean,
I had my phone with me. I took a photo of the
stage before he took the stage. So I have a photo
from the show at night. But, I mean, I saw photos
that other people took. Great photos anyway.
The one I saw was pretty good, but like they
were... Did anyone look good right before they
were about to die? He was dancing around. I mean...
I'm just being an asshole. But I guess my point
is like how dedicated, like how much of this
is like, and I don't mean dedicated, but like...
How much do you consider yourself like a guy
that's in the right place in the right time with
the camera? And how much do you consider yourself
like a photojournalist? I mean, to go back to
your question, like, I don't know. I mean, if
I would have known, somehow knew that was his
last concert ever, I may have, because basically
they were, if you saw your... If they saw you
with your camera out, you were kicked out immediately.
So I may have tried to take a couple. But then
also, yeah, maybe the last song. I don't really
want to get kicked out of Prince's last show
ever either. Right, right. Yeah, but I think
we're actually exposing something interesting.
Are you a fan or a photographer first? I'm a
fan first. It's like, you know, I'd rather play
by the rules, whatever rules and the art the
band has. Like, I'm cool with whatever, even
if I don't agree with whatever policies. You
know, I've got to respect it. And sometimes it
has nothing to do with the band or even the venue.
It might be, like, an insurance policy or something,
right? So at a certain point, you just stop questioning
it. You're just like, okay, fine. And what's
interesting is, I mean, there's some times where
one of the things people don't realize maybe
about shooting shows professionally is like it's
a, it's, you don't really get to, there's like
a lot of hoops you have to jump through. And
sometimes it's just not worth it. Like, there's
been shows where, you know, I got a photo pass,
but I ended up missing, like, half the show.
Because I'm like, they didn't bring us in until
halfway through the set, and so you're missing
that. And then you have to put your camera gear
up, so you're missing songs there. So, like,
sure, you got to take photos of the show, but
you only got to see, like, half the set. So is
that worth it to you? And sometimes yes, sometimes
no. There's been big acts that, you know, I'm
like, okay, if I ever get a chance to see them,
I'm going to see them as a fan first. Because
when you've been at it long enough, you kind
of know what people's rules are and all the hoops
involved. Especially when you're operating in
the same venues and kind of region. Yeah, like
photographers talk. Well, and I've seen you travel
from Tampa to Nashville just in like the last
six months. Yeah. It's not like you were just
stuck in this like small area, but yeah, I get
it. It gets to be kind of like common knowledge
among people. Almost just like hardcore fans
of a band. Yeah. And so, like, Paul McCartney,
for instance, I was like, okay, if I ever get
a chance to see Paul McCartney, I'll go see him
as a fan and not buy a ticket. I mean, buy a
ticket and just go. And so I did that, and I'm
like, if I ever get a second chance to see him,
then I'll go through all the hoops. You know,
that way I at least have that, I saw, like, a
whole show. and everything was good. So that
way, if I miss out on a lot, then it's not like
my only time that I ever got to see him and I
missed out on all the stuff. So, um, and you
know, and also, yeah, you just miss out on a
good bit. I mean, you, most of the time you get
a free ticket. So like you miss out, but you're,
but it's not costing you anything. So you're
not really like, so it's, it's a trade off. And
there's sometimes, Sometimes there's bands that
I like that I just, or even venues that I know
their policies and I'm like, especially when
it's like soundboard shoot where you have to
be like way far back. Sometimes I'm like, it's
not worth it. I want to see the show, but I would
rather be up front than have to like, you know,
like be way far back taking photos and then have
to put, miss half the show. And so sometimes
I just don't even bother with it. But there's
other times where, you know, fans actually have
a better, can take better photos than the professional
photographers because there's been some shows
where I didn't bother going through getting a
photo pass and I just brought my little, I have
a Fujifilm like point and shoot camera and I
just get like a front row ticket. and I take
my photos from the front row, and I don't have
to deal with any of the hoops. I'm just there
as a fan. I'm just taking photos. It just happens
to be a nicer camera. So do you shoot on film?
No, it's all digital. Cool. Did you at one point
shoot on film and then switch to digital, or
have you always shot digital? I mean, I've had
a film camera. But I've always shot concerts
with digital camera. So what point did you go
from just loving music, wanting to take photos,
to being more like, okay, I want to do this,
like, regularly? I guess, I mean, when I moved
to Athens. When did you move to Athens? Was it
directly from Orlando? No, I moved, I was in
Orlando in 2003, and then I moved back to, I
was living with my parents, living with my parents.
And then I was there for another couple years,
and then in 2006, I moved to Athens. And so I
was, before Athens, I was traveling to Atlanta
or Athens. Where did you grow up? In Riverdale.
Which is by, like, College Park, by the Atlanta
airport, sort of. Yeah, so, like, not, like,
super far away from any of this, but you weren't,
like, in the middle of it all as a kid. No, I
was, like, 15 minutes from Atlanta. But your
parents were really into music, took you to shows,
it sounds like. Yeah, they took me to country
concerts, and, you know, they would play music
around the house all the time. Do you think you
still primarily listen to country or at least
rock or southern rock? Or do you think that you've
moved to listen to a lot of different stuff nowadays?
Well, I mean, I mostly listen to stuff that's
not country. But I still like that type of country.
I don't really care for the pop. poppy country
but but like the country that's more like honky
-tonk and yeah or outlaw country yeah yeah I
there's some bands that my parents never did
take me to that I when they came through Athens
like Dwight Yoakam I saw him at the Georgia Theater
so and then like Willie Nelson never got to see
him with my parents but so I still have a love
for that music But, I mean, even when, even in
my teens, I was still, you know, like I mentioned,
Nine Inch Nails was, like, the first record.
So, like, that's way different than country.
I mean, I was listening to The Hate Machine a
week ago when I was a player. So, like, don't,
you're in good company. I get exactly what you
mean because it's, like, Kane. Oh, from Slightly
Famous Somebody? Yeah, from Slightly Famous Somebody.
Kane Stanley. Last night, our conversation ended
with, I was like, there's two kinds of music,
and we just looked at each other, and in unison,
we said, good music and bad music. Yeah. And
it was just one of those, like, all right, I
see you. But also, facts. Yeah. There's some
music where... It's on your bucket list to shoot
or see or both. Well... If you're in an ideal
world, both at the same show, you get to stick
your shit... You get three songs, and then you
get to stick your shit in a locker. It takes
you 30 seconds. So there's no hassle. You get
your three songs, and then you enjoy the rest
of the fucking show as a fan who's on your bucket
list. Well, my bucket list, really, I mean, if
I count bands that it's still realistic to be
able to see, you know, like... Let's do, like,
you know, ones that are alive and you're dead.
Well, my alive one would be Raging Against the
Machine. Nice. And, I mean, I had tickets to
see them a couple years ago, and then Zach Day
of the Roadshow tore his Achilles tendon, and
then he sat. How did that do that? Were you at
that show? Were you at that show where he toured
it? No, I wasn't. The only Achilles tendon I've
seen touring was Witch Walkers. But I do think
it's weird that you had tickets and weren't sitting
here now. Yeah, I had tickets to see him in Detroit,
and he did some shows sitting down, and it was
still great, even though he had to sit down.
But then they canceled the rest of the tour,
and now they're done. So, like, you know, I never
know whether to really believe a band when they
say they're done. I'll believe they're done when
they're all dead. You know who I believe if they
said they were done? Who? The Dropout Truckers.
Because, like, they never pretended to be done.
And I feel like they know that if they ever did
say they were done, like, it would be traumatizing.
To the point where they're like, we can only
do this once. I say that because I think Rage
actually is similar. I know other people that
it's almost like a life goal just to see them
live. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I could have probably,
you know, like, it's weird because, like, I didn't
start seeing shows regularly until, you know,
93, 94. But I remember, like, when Rage Against
the Machine was playing in Atlanta in, like,
98 or whatever. I mean, I was 16, but I don't
think my parents would have been down for it,
but I could have technically driven to Atlanta
to see them. But I think part of it was it didn't
dawn on me that I could just drive and do it.
I don't know. I think part of it was when I was
in Orlando, we just went to see a show. What
took you to Orlando in the first place? I had
the college program at Disney World. Right. But
you stayed after that, right? No, I would just
say it was eight months. Yeah, from January to
August. It sounds like that for eight months.
Like, I thought you were there longer because
it just sounded very productive for you. Do you
consider yourself an artist? I mean, I think
so to some degree. I mean, documentarian, like,
Yeah, I mean, I struggle with this myself sometimes.
I mean, there's some photos I take that I like,
that really, like, have an artistic, you know,
I think are more artistic than others. Do you
approach that differently if you're trying to
take, like, artistic photos versus, like, documenting
something? Not really. I just try to frame it
however looks good at the moment. But there are
certain images that are more striking than others.
Sure. But I'm not consciously doing that. Well,
I think this actually plays into something I
was talking about with Jen earlier. Just because
it's not conscious or intentional, it's inherent.
Whatever looks good to you can inherently be
what. you end up taking a photo of and like the
decision making might just happen at a different
point in the process yeah that's true what i
mean like it's like like jen was like i don't
know what i did other than just be in the right
place in the right time and i was like you had
the wherewithal to be in the right place in the
right time yeah yeah it's that's true it's like
it's a yeah that i mean that's another like What
I love about seeing live music so much is you
never know what's going to happen. Like, anything
can happen. I mean, I saw a band break up before
they even hit the stage. I saw John Neff walk
out in the middle of a band set last night. It
was fucking weird. No, I'm just kidding. It was
totally planned. He only had three sets that
night. Yeah, he only had three sets yesterday.
But also... Come on, John. I'm only saying that
because John and I have known each other for
like 15 years. And I've been trying to nail down
the time to interview him this weekend. And obviously,
he's the busiest man in Athens this weekend.
But every interview I've done has talked about
him. So every time I see him, I'm like, hey.
So last night, Slightly Famous Some Buddies and
I decided that you're PJ Neff. The Java Neff.
And he's like, yes. And then I'm like, today,
I'm like, oh, it's Neff Fest, by the way. It's
not F Fest anymore. It's Neff Fest. Yeah. He
just laughed. But he's also, like, the most,
like, hard person to, like, I mean, you know,
because he's playing three shows, he's like,
I don't know, like, when would I talk to you?
That being said, I think we're going to talk
tomorrow. Good. But being in the right place
at the right time, I think, yeah, some of that's
luck. Some of that is knowing to be in the right
place at the right time. I mean, sometimes you
have a feeling something special might happen,
but there's just no guarantee. But, yeah, I mean,
I love, like I said, that's what I love about
seeing live music is You ever know what's going
to happen, you may... How often do you photograph
something where you're like, I think this is
incredibly special, and then nobody gives a fuck?
Because I feel like that happens to me, just
like a show that's going to happen. I'm like,
can you believe these people are playing Tallahassee
or whatever? There's definitely bands that I
see that I get really excited about, but, you
know, I... People don't have the same excitement
I do. And I think today, you're like, we're so
bombarded with just information from all different
directions, it's hard to know what to pay attention
to. But people recommend music to me, and I try
to, like, you know, I say, I'll check that out,
and I try to, like, right then and there add
it to my, like, my playlist. to check out. But
yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, there's definitely
bands that I've, that have played Athens that
I get really excited about. I'm like, can you
believe they're playing? And then like, and then
like, it'll be not many people there. I'm like,
well, this is special for the hundred of us that
are here, but they're probably never coming.
I mean, like at the 40 watt or something. I'm
just saying, when I feel that way in Tallahassee,
there's like 12 of us there. Oh, well, I mean,
that could happen in a smaller venue. But I think
that's the difference between Tallahassee and
Athens. It's like, even, like, 100 people at
a show I gave a shit about in Tallahassee would
be like, what the fuck, yeah. It's good up to
this. Whereas in Athens, I can understand where
that would be, like, really? Well, it depends
on the venue. Like, 100 at the 40 -watt. Seems
pretty sad looking. But 100 at Flickr, you know,
that's packed out. You literally, I don't think
you can fit more than like five more than 100.
So if rage is on your bucket list, who was, all
right, two questions. Who was the band that,
or maybe not the band, but what was the moment,
if there was one, where you realized, okay, this
isn't just a hobby. People think this is important.
Was it COVID or did it happen before then? I
mean, I know you took it more seriously after
COVID because people were relying on it a lot.
Well, I guess it, I mean, COVID made me appreciate
it for myself more, like, because I realized
it could stop at any time. And so when shows
started back, I started. I even started taking
more photos at shows following COVID because
I found myself wishing I had more photos of certain
shows. But what kind of made me realize it was
more than just taking photos and putting them
up on my website was it wasn't necessarily, I
mean, I love this band, but it wasn't the band
itself. What happened was I took photos of this
band, Bit Brigade. And they weren't called Bit
Brigade at that time, but it was the same band.
But I took some photos of them, and Flagpole
here in Athens reached out to me and wanted to
use one of my photos for a story they were doing
on Bit Brigade. And that started a relationship
with Flagpole of them coming to me. when they
needed photos of local bands. And also, like,
it probably boosted your confidence, too. Yeah,
and, like, the fact that they're reaching out
and they like the photos enough to want to publish
them, that meant a lot. You knew to be there
and take the photo. Yeah, and that gave me motivation
to go to more shows because I was like, well,
if this means... Because it happened to be where,
like, I had the only photos of... these local
bands in town and flagpole wanted to run stories
and do things with these bands and so i was like
well um so it just made me more motivated to
go out more and more and then uh you know and
then flag been working still work with flagpole
on stuff and that's like nearly 20 years now
and so that kind of and then a couple years after
i started working with Did that allow you to
invest in better equipment? When you started
getting paid for photos, mentally, were you spending
a lot of money on camera stuff? Or was it once
it started making money, you were like, okay,
I can reinvest some of this? So I had my point
-and -shoot camera in 2004, 2005, and then I
moved to Athens and started going to a lot more
shows, and I was working for the University of
Georgia. and the college of ed and they could
check out equipment to people okay and so i started
checking out the dslr to myself and so i would
bring that to shows and then it was not really
a lens that was good for concert photography
it was like a kit lens so i took my tax return
that year and put it toward like my first DSLR
for night, and bought a DSLR, a Nikon DSLR, and
then a lens and started using that. And then
basically any money that I've made from photography,
I just use it to put back into photography, whether
it be new lenses or travel for shows or whatever
it is. But, yeah, I mean, so Flagpole gave me
a boost of confidence, and then a couple years
after that, like in 2008, 2009, Paste Magazine,
they reached out to me and asked me if I would
like to contribute. They're online only now.
Yeah, they were print at the time. I think it
was quarterly maybe. Every other month, maybe.
Yeah, I forget. The record store I worked at
carried it, so I was reading it whenever we were
slow. And so they asked me if I would like to
contribute, and I was like, yeah, I would love
to. And so ACDC was coming, just announced a
tour, so I was like, all right, I'm going to
swing big. So I asked if I could shoot ACDC as
my first. assignment or coverage for paste and
they're like okay so it wasn't printed in the
magazine but it photos ran online and so that
was like my first like big show yeah I got a
first my first photo pass and yeah and so that
was that Phillips arena so that I was like that
was way bigger than anything that I had done
The way I like to think about it is, like, the
first time you walk through the forest, it's
a little tough. You know, you got some vines
to cut down. There might be some weeds with thorns
that are going to cut your ankles. But the next
day, if you walk that same path, like, all the
shit you walked over is kind of already cleared
through. So, like, after shooting ACDC and Phillips
Arena, did you just find it to be kind of easier
to just be in the moment, just be like, this
is what I'm doing? Uh, I, it, it was sort of
overwhelming. I mean, cause you know, I grew
up on AC, listening to ACDC. So like it took
me when I was up there. And they came out on
stage, and Angus Young is right in front of me
just, like, ripping it. Honestly, I had to, like,
I was in a daze. I was like, I can't believe
that's him right in front of me. And then I,
like, wasn't taking any photos. I was just kind
of sitting there with my jaw mouth open. And
then I'm like, okay, I need to be taking photos.
And then, you know, I took photos. But it did.
You know, that first time, I was just like, I
just couldn't believe it. Yeah. Because it was
like, it went from local bands to small touring
bands to, like, all of a sudden these legends.
And I was just like, okay, now this is the next
level. And so, like, but, I mean, it made me.
The next time, I don't remember what my next
big show was after that, but it did at least
give me an idea of what to expect. It didn't
chop all the vines and weeds down, but it made
the path a little easier. Each band, each concert
is a little bit different than the last. The
band's going to have different rules, or the
venue's going to be slightly different. One of
the big things, and this is something I've talked
about with bands that tour, as well as people
like you and I that are just there, is a big
part of it is learning to be adaptable. Yeah.
And rolling with whatever the fuck's going on
and just being cool with it. Yeah. That's definitely
true. I mean, one of the big things about requesting
photo credentials is... Accepting it when they
say no. Accepting it and also not expect... Most
of the time you don't get approved until the
day before or the day of. So, like, you have
to... And be mindful that, you know, you may,
it may not work out. You may not know. You might
not even go because you don't have tickets or
anything. Yeah, so I've probably, I shot Depeche
Mode in Atlanta. And they were at Lakewood. And,
you know, I have my day job. So I'm sitting there,
I bring my camera to the office in preparation
of going. And, like, it hits 5 o 'clock, and
I still don't have an approval. So I was like,
okay, well, I'm just going to drive to Atlanta
and hope that I have an email waiting on me saying
I'm approved. So I drove to Atlanta, and I parked
and checked my email, and thankfully I got approved,
and it worked out. But I've also had... I've
also had... I've also had situations where I've
driven and I, now this is a lesson learned. Not
that I actually, it's a lesson learned in that
I, after that I started, okay, if I don't get
an approval on the day of, if I'm going to make
the drive to Atlanta anyway, I got to have a
plan B because like, if I don't want to drive
to Atlanta for nothing. so i try to find like
another concert there's plenty so um so like
i you know and i had that happen where i didn't
get a i didn't hear anything i drove to atlanta
parked at the venue opened my phone still nothing
i'm like and it was sold out show so i couldn't
even buy a ticket so i was like okay well um
i guess i'm going to do my plan b and um and
it worked out okay i mean it's not as i mean
it's it kind of you know it doesn't hurt as bad
or you know when you have when you still get
to do something fun you're like not it's just
not your primary thing but but yeah i've it's
i've definitely learned that let's talk about
these photo collages that you've been doing the
last couple years you've been doing them for
a number of venues around town And I see town
happens, Georgia. At least three, not two, three.
There's been three total, yeah. And then you've
done AFEST, which I can go whatever. We know
what it looks like. You already signed them all,
so I couldn't even be like, will you sign it
for me, Mike? I can sign it again. All right,
I'll go get it. I'm going to have you do that.
I'll hold you to that. But, alright. For those
that don't know what I'm talking about, this
man has taken photos from various venues and
then orchestrated them into collages of the logos
of said venues or events in the case of Atfest.
Where did the idea for that come from? I mean,
I think it's amazing. I think that's one of the
coolest ways to commemorate an event or a venue
or something that has so much going on. Oh, cool.
Thanks. Yeah, so I've done three total. I did
one for the 40 -watt, which was all photos that
I had taken at the 40 -watt over the years. I
did one at Caledonia, which is all Caledonia
photos. And then recently I did the AthFest one,
which is all photos of the AthFest throughout
the years. Which year? How many AthFests? Just
the one. Just this year was the first. How many
AthFests have there been until, like, is this
the 25th? I mean, there's been 26 total, but
I've only been going to them since 2006. I mean,
that's fine. We're only as old as we are. I think
my first one was like 2010. But yeah, the 26th
one in 2025. For the record of everything. Which,
you know, I made an edition of 25 and I probably
should have made an edition of 26 in hindsight
because it was 26 years 20. But anyway. Fuck
that 26 year motherfucker. That dude procrastinated.
He didn't deserve it. But the idea came about.
I can't quite remember where I saw it, but I
saw someone that made a photo collage. And I'm
like, that's really cool. I'm like, this idea
of it's cool. And then I was like, I wish there
was a way I could somehow do a photo collage.
Are you like really into jigsaw puzzles or something?
No. So I understand thinking it's cool. Like,
I get that. Where does that turn into, I want
to organize how many photos are in these collages?
The at best one is over 700. So what makes you
feel like, I want to organize 700 photos to make,
like, the idea is awesome. It sounds like the
work could be pretty tedious. Actually, I cheat
a little. I want to take all of the odds out
with AI. Okay. Yeah, it's going to be great.
We're going to sound way smarter. But I use a
program to... So I go through all the photos
and I pick out my favorites from each AthFest
year. And then I upload them to a website that...
will actually do the work of compiling the mosaic.
Like the color? Yeah, you upload them, you upload
what you want your main image to be, and then
you upload all the smaller images, and you have
to crop them the way you want them to appear,
mostly just people spaces. Like I said, it sounds
pretty tedious. I'm not manually placing the
photo tiles. All the locations, but the website
figures out, based off the colors of the photos,
where to place them. And it also, there's different
settings you can do on how opaque you want the
main image to be. And there's ways to tweak it.
Isn't that really what we should be using technology
for? Is like the tedious, the shit that I'm like.
that would be really tedious. And you're like,
no, I got like, I did the fun shit and the computer
did the harsh, like the, the tedious bullshit.
And then I was able to like, put my like vision
on it. But at the end of the day, like the computer
found the matching colors and the matching, you
know, and, and, and helped me cross some things.
But I'm just thinking about like AI generated,
like fully generated things versus, you know,
The fact that I still have to do my own fucking
laundry. It's weird, right? So a common theme
that's come up on this podcast is like, yeah,
technology could be cool if it weren't for the
fucking billionaires. I mean, I have a lot, you
know, I work, my day job is in the IT world.
So I have a love -hate relationship. Technology
is nice when it works. I used to, so I was a
TA for a class called Science and Film in grad
school. And the first movie we'd show people
was Jurassic Park. And then we'd ask them, if
science was a character in Jurassic Park, is
it good or evil? And, I mean, really, we were
looking for an answer. And the answer was like,
neither. It's what people do with science. Yeah.
But, I mean, I think that's true with, The thing
that's interesting about that is when you apply
it to science, you're like, oh, that's true for
art, of course. But it's also true for everything
that's constructed by humans. Yeah. Whether it
be nuclear power, environmentalism, photos. I
mean, sometimes photos can be used for evil,
right? Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't want to
even get into examples of it, but I can. There's
literally types of photographs that are inherently
illegal. Yeah, yeah. So, like, at what point
do you view anything that you're doing as, like,
having moral value, or are you just like, I'm
just fucking riding this wave, and I'm lucky
to be here? I mean, I will say that some of the
photo editing software that I use, well, the
photo editing software I use has started adding
AI, like, functionality to it how does that make
you feel i mean it's i'm and i will just say
like this is new to all of us so i mean any of
us have like solid positions on any of it the
way my feelings is if you can use it as a tool
like it's all about i mean i this goes for photo
editing too i don't really try to edit my photos
that much some people they go In my opinion,
they go way overboard with editing, and I try
to have a light touch on it. Same, I think, applies
for AI. Some things that I think are actually
cool about it, or there's a plug -in, well, not
plug -in, but a feature of Lightroom where you
can make, let's say you take a photo and and
you, you know, like, for instance, a photo that
I took, like, 20 years ago, you can, and you
want to make a big print of it, but the photo,
the digital file is not, doesn't have enough
resolution to be able to print it big. Yeah,
you can, like, basically double the resolution
of the image. I saw, I think there was, like,
a whole series of World War... one or two footage
that was shot in black and white that they've
been able to colorize with AI. Spielberg directed
a lot of it. But it's like, and I agree completely.
You can use AI as a tool. I'll kind of sum it
up with this and then give you a chance to promote
anything you'd like to promote. Remember when
our teachers told us we weren't going to have
calculators in our pockets all goddamn time?
Yeah. Did your photography teacher ever tell
you that you weren't going to have a camera with
you all the time? Well, I mean, I actually never
had a photography teacher. That kind of makes
my point. Is that certain things are just what
we do. And humans document, categorize, whatever.
And what I think is interesting about... both
you and Jen Bryant who I talked to earlier today
and myself I think we all have this in common
it's like we just kind of like were ourselves
loved what we loved and like stumbled into something
kind of interesting yeah and um and what I would
say about that is like be yourself and do what
you want to do and hopefully like you're going
to find your people and what you're supposed
to be doing Yeah, I agree. I mean, I moved to
Athens not knowing anyone. And I knew I loved
music. I knew I liked photography. And I went
out all the time. And I just instantly found
this whole community that was welcoming to me.
I was new to town and made so many friends. I
make new friends every time I visit, man. It
really is a magical place, isn't it? Yeah, it
is. I mean, it was just wild that I got here
and I would see a show and then I would talk
to someone and be like, oh, my other band is
playing next week. And so I would go see their
other band and then I would meet two or more
people and then they're like, oh, our other band.
people in athens tip reason kevin bacon is like
two degrees yeah yeah so it's it's wild to think
it's almost been 20 years i've been here but
i mean i've met so many really cool people and
um and super talented people and you know it's
just been really i find i just I still love going
out there and taking photos and just taking photos
of people doing what they do. People want to
buy prints of your photos. Where can they find
you online? Do you have that available? Yeah,
you can go to www .deadlydesigns .com is my website.
I basically upload everything that I've ever
taken since 2006 is up there. You can order prints
off the website too. If you're local to Athens,
you can also go by Sealy's a couple of doors
down from... Luxury Records, there's physical
prints for sale there. And then if you would
like to follow me on social media, I have Instagram,
which is at Deadly Designs. And I'm posting photos
there as well. I'll make sure there's links to
all that in the description of the episode. Is
there anything else you got going on like this
summer that you think people should know that's
happening? Or just... Even something like you're
a big fan. Is there anything you're a big fan
of that you think people should check out this
summer? I mean, my favorite band, Nine Inch Snails,
is going out on tour. So I'm excited about that.
Let's go. So they're coming to Atlanta in September.
So I'm looking forward to that. I actually have
met a lot of friends through Nine Inch Snails.
So I'm going to see some shows with them out
on the West Coast. So I'm excited about that.
You ever seen Weird Al perform Germs? I did see.
It's like a style parody. Yeah, yeah. I did see
him do that, like, kind of the non -parody, but
the originals in the style of tour. Yeah, I saw
that tour. I forget if they played that or not.
It definitely did in one of them. Yeah, I think
he did. I think he did. Yeah, yeah. I'll send
you a music video. Okay. Because I know that
they played Dare to be Stupid. That's like another
one. I was wearing my Dare to be Stupid shirt
last night. It's an old Dare shirt. Oh, nice.
But instead of to keep kids off drugs, it says
to be stupid. Nice. Are you going to see him
on this tour? I think so. And I really want to
talk to Puddles. Oh, yeah. Like, Puddles is opening
the whole tour. I've seen him eight times. Weird
Al is one of my first concerts. Not my first.
I think my first was Merle Haggard and Leon Rimes
at a festival in Swanee Music Park. And Merle
was trashed. And I was like, maybe one day I'll
marry Leon Rimes. Because I was like 11. She's
like 14. That's not a stretch. It can happen.
Yeah, exactly. But one of my, yeah, like the
first concert that I ever really gave a shit
about, like Weird Al. Nice. And one of the last
concerts that I really gave a shit about was
Weird Al. I love Weird Al. I mean, I've seen
him three times, I think, now. Oh, yeah. Let's
find a show in the fall. Let's go together. If
you don't have tickets and I don't have tickets,
let's find a show. Let's do it. Sounds good.
I know he's playing New Orleans, St. Augustine.
Yeah, I know that he's... I'm hoping to get to
take photos of the Charlotte show. I know that's
kind of a wage from you, but... I mean, if Puddles
wants to talk to me, I can go anywhere in the
country. Mike, it's been fucking awesome talking
to you, man. Is there anything else you'd like
to say before we cut this off? The thing is,
I think I could just talk to you all night and
drink beers and, you know, whatever. But, you
know, we've had a long weekend, man. No, other
than, yeah, thank you for having me. And it was
great to talk with you. Awesome. Well, check
out Deadly Designs. I'll have everything linked
in the description. I guess the last thing I'll
say is, like, how did you get, like, the AthFest
photographer, like, official AthFest photographer
gig? Was that just because you've worked with
flagpoles so much over the years and they finally
knew who to hire? Or, like, what's going on?
Well, so I started as the official AthFest photographer.
This is my third year. Third year, okay. And
previously they didn't have an official photographer.
So did you? create that job for yourself? Well,
they had interns do it, and Mary Joyce, who's
the executive director of FFS Educates. She's
been wonderful every time I've interacted with
her this weekend. She's great. She became executive
director, and one of the things that she wanted
was to have an official photographer and an official
videographer, just because that was something
that they didn't have. And I had seen Mary play
in various bands over the years. Can you name
a couple of them? Maximum Busy Muscle was one
of them. That's a fucking cool name. Awesome
band, awesome name, awesome people. I don't think
they're an active band right now. And she was
also in a band called the Incendiaries. Yeah.
And so when the idea of having an official photographer
came up, she thought of me. And we had kept in
touch over the years. And so she reached out
and asked me if I was interested. She's like,
well, you're already doing it. She's like...
I just want to make it official. Yeah, because
I was... Before that, I was taking photos for
Flagpole. I think they had... A few people taking
them. For a while, I would take them just for
flagpole, but then they got someone else, so
I was taking kind of supplemental photos. But,
I mean, I've been taking photos to some degree,
you know, almost every year. But, yeah, so she
reached out and asked me if I was interested.
And I was like, yeah, of course. Does the Pope.
It's been fucking awesome talking to you, man.
Thank you so much. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank
you for having me. Check out Deadly Designs.
All the photos, the design, you know. I'm going
to have everything linked in the description.
I'm going to stop talking. Bye. That was my interview
with Mike White. He and I are definitely kindred
spirits. We're going to go try and see Weird
Al together at some point. Hope you enjoyed this
episode. Check out his photography. Everything's
linked in the descriptions. Deadly Designs. Don't
miss out. He's got prints for sale. And I've
got that collage sitting right here. And let
me tell you, it's pretty incredible. It was a
pleasure talking to him. I hope it was a pleasure
listening. Y 'all have a great week.