Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed. Today
is a really cool episode. I get to sit down with
Jen Bryant. She's been the webmaster of the drive
-by truckers since they had a website. She's
the only webmaster they've ever had. She was
also on the board of directors of AthFest. So
we talk about AthFest, we talk about, we just
nerd out about the drive -by truckers. She's
the original heathen. I don't really know what
else to say, but it was a pleasure talking to
her. She was super kind to sit down and talk
to me. I think it was one of the best talks I've
had on this show yet. And I'm excited for you
to hear it. Everybody check out the movie The
Secret to a Happy Ending if you're interested
in more of this story. We referenced it a couple
of times in this interview. And Jen actually
did appear in that film. and talks a little bit
about some of this. But we go a lot deeper here,
and she gives you the rest of the story. Here
we are, Jen Bryant. Thanks for listening to Overeducated
and Underemployed. Hit that subscribe button.
Okay, I'm here with Jen Bryant, who I can best
describe as a pioneer in early Internet music
marketing. To put it broadly, and I think, to
be honest, I only know the outline of the story,
which is why I want to talk to her and get the
whole thing. Hi, Jen. Hi. How are you doing?
I'm great. I'm here in Athens for AthFest. I
know. Have you been having fun? It's been amazing.
It's so good. Have you seen somebody good yet?
I have seen a lot of really great bands. I got
to say, Bubba Sparks brought it. Really? I wanted
to see that so bad. It was so fun. And Kimberly
played yesterday, too. And she's always amazing.
She's so good. That was, I think, my third time
seeing her play. I know. She is like the best
band in music. She really does. She picked well.
She really did. Yeah, I wanted to go see her,
but we had a dinner planned last night, which
really sucked. It was brutal. It's the worst
thing about AthFest. I was on the board of directors
of AthFest for 10 years, and I couldn't get them
to move it no matter what I did. So I just rolled
off the board. There was no way. I mean, this
is just when the town needs income. And so this
is what they wanted to do. They wanted to bring
people to town during the summer when it's just
stupid hot. To be fair, I understand that reasoning.
I was talking to my Uber driver, one of them
the other day. He said that the students are
staying more and more of them anyway. Maybe they'll
switch it a little further one way or the other
so it's less. Even a month earlier would be a
lot. It would be a huge difference. At least
now, until the planet continues. But I do want
to say that they have been really kind to me.
They have treated their media people really well.
That's great. They continue to, I think. do a
really great thing. And it's since you were on
the board and I'm here for AthFest and then we'll
dive into like what I really want to talk to
you about. Can you just tell everybody like what
the purpose of the fundraising for AthFest is,
like where that money goes and kind of the philosophy
behind it? Yeah, sure. Well, I think that was
one of our problems was that early on the message
that AthFest had was it wasn't clear. So what
they were doing with the money and why none of
that made any sense to anybody because nobody
knew what was happening. But what is happening
is they're making grants for small schools and
others, just regular schools, not small, but
to promote arts and music in those schools. So
basically they'll give a grant to a band that,
like a school band. middle school band to buy
violins or they'll give a grant to an art department
to buy supplies for such as or to take a trip
somewhere to do something. So basically they
teachers will apply for grants and then AthFest
will allocate the money as they see fit. And
the grants are very it sounds like very specific
for like a very like specific purpose. That's
right. They have to promote the music and arts.
In the schools, in local schools. So AthFest
being for Athens, we try to do, I think they
do some in Oconee too, but yeah, it's mostly
Athens schools. And it's done really well, and
they've made a lot of great grants, and I think...
Once bands understand and people understand that's
what the money's for, I think they'd be more
accepting and willing to play for less and stuff
like that. I will tell you the number of young
bands I've seen this weekend that were kick -ass
is awesome. That's the thing. Athens has its
share of seasoned, long -time veteran musicians,
but you're also seeing the young kids come up.
Keep it going. It's not quite to the volume that
it used to be. Like when I moved here, there
was 120 or so original bands that only played
original music. No cover bands, which is... blew
me away like I moved from North Alabama Muscle
Shoals and we only had a few bands like three
bands there that would only do original songs
so yeah it was insane now there's less of a music
scene I think COVID killed some of our best clubs
and well sadly Caledonia and stuff like that
you know it's just I think you know I was reading
an article the other day in some ways we're still
kind of recovering from like the just the collective,
like, habit changes. Like, people don't go out
after dark as much. And, you know, maybe on the
weekends and stuff. They just don't want to.
It's like you're used to being home now. And
places don't stay open as late. That's right.
I mean, you know, so it became this feedback
loop where I think all kinds of art and culture
has kind of struggled. Kind of got damaged by
it. I mean, not to mention just the guys having
to find a way to make money. Yeah. And I think
that's why we're seeing house shows on the rise
again, too. I see a lot of people doing house
shows, and I've hosted a couple of them. I like
that. I hope that the artists make enough money
to continue doing that. I think as a full band,
it's hard, but for solo artists... Sure, yeah.
I mean, I had J. Roddy Walston there at my house
a couple months ago. That was great, and I think
he left happy. Yeah. And Lee Baines is coming
in a couple of months. Oh, that's awesome. And
of course, the podcast is named after one of
his lyrics. He's the one. That's so cool. Okay,
so it sounds like you've always been into music.
It's been a part of you. And you grew up in Muscle
Shoals. Yeah, I was born in Auburn, Opelika,
actually. And so my parents were hippies, like
the real hippies. to the hippies. My mom had
painted this giant, the Rolling Stones lips,
you know, on the wall of our living room. And
it was huge. It was huge. So I had these pictures
of me having a birthday. blowing out the cakes
with this giant Rolling Stones lips behind us.
My parents always listened to music, just constantly.
There was music playing on the radio, and I always
was into it. They said that from a very young
age, I was... Like, my first concert in utero
was Ike and Tina Turner. So my mom remembers.
She was like, you were dancing inside of my...
So I guess I just was born to it. I always loved
music, but I couldn't... I never had the... I
guess the concentration to sit down and learn
to play very much. So I played bass a little
bit. I played flute some. And I was pretty good
at flute. And then it just, that's not a rock
and roll instrument very often. So without Jethro
Tull. So I just kind of dropped all that and
started promoting bands instead. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, honestly, that sounds very similar to
me as a kid. I grew up just loving music. Yeah.
Found a couple of local bands that I really liked
that were writing original music. They didn't
play covers. And they ended up getting signed
to... Oh, nice. In Tallahassee in the early 2000s,
there was actually a pretty cool scene. Five
bands got signed to major labels in the same
year. And you knew some of them? I worked with
some of them. I was thanked in the album credits.
That's great. Yeah, yeah. But I started street
teams for them. Yeah. I would go to the mall
with them, and we'd pass out CD samplers and
flyers and, you know, avoid mall security. Yeah,
try to get away with it. And then they'd take
me to Hooters afterwards. I just thought that
was, you know, because I was like 13, 14. Oh,
okay, okay. That's a little young. I was young.
For Hooters. But that was like, that was the...
That made it cool. That was as far as they took
it, too. You know what I mean? They're not taking
you to strip clubs. No, and they weren't giving
me drugs or letting me drink or anything like
that. It was almost like, you know, they helped
me keep it on the rails just enough. But, I mean,
music, rock and roll was my passion from the
very beginning. It sounds very similar. Like,
you decided to help. Yeah. And I joke that all
comedians are, like, wannabe rock stars. Yeah.
But I also think, like, all songwriters, like,
secretly want to be comedians. That's... True.
They really want to be taken seriously, but they
also want to be funny because that's sexy. Yeah.
Well, and you can see it, like, in, you know,
both Patterson and Cooley's lyrics. Yeah. I mean,
they're always putting little one -liners in
there. That's true. And Cooley is a natural comedian,
for sure. And Patterson's very funny. You have
to, like, pay attention, but Cooley is straight
-up hilarious in Patterson's. Yeah. Well, and
that's kind of what I mean, is, like, even if
they don't channel it into stand -up. Yeah. With
air quotes. Yeah. You know, they are basically
comedians. Cooley's stand -up would just be him
on the stage with a guitar, like with songs in
between his stand -up. That's pretty much what
he does anyway. You know, I mean, there's nothing
that really defines what stand -up is. No, that's
true. That's true. So I'm going to ask you the
question that I ask everybody. All right. And
you already almost, like, spoiled it a little
bit. But I think... The in utero helped. But
that's actually the second question. The first
question is, what's the first song that you remember
loving as a child? Like, really, like, I want
to know who this is. I want to know more about
this. There's a difference like when I was a
little kid when I was a little kid I loved horses
more than anything so the song wildfire wildfire
Do you remember that sad ass song about the pony
that dies in the fire? That was my favorite song
and because I was so sad about that pony I hated
it, but I loved it at the same time. And then
there was another song at the same time that
also got me. It was Guitar Man because it's so
fucking sad. Like the chord progression is so
sad. Not the lyrics are not necessarily, but
yeah, it was just for some reason, those were
the first two songs that I really dug into. But
then when I started like getting into where I
wanted to know more about the musicians and stuff
like that. This is so embarrassing. It was absolutely
Journey because I saw this Separate Ways video
and Steve Perry was like standing in the front
singing really loud, someday love will find,
you know, and I just fell in love with him. I
was just like, holy shit, this guy means it.
He means what he's saying. I really want to know,
I want to, I hope love finds, you know, just
answering all these questions that he was asking
and really fell in love with that. So I bought
a bunch of Journey records and I fell in love
with the whole, I knew all the members' names,
and I knew what they played, and I knew how long
they'd been in it, knew who they were married
to, and all these things, which things don't
matter to the music at all. So that's the two
different kinds of obsession that I have. I'll
have an obsession about just music, and just
the music itself is enough. And then I'll have
an obsession where I want to know more about
the artist, and that's a different kind of thing.
It's also a music love, but it's not necessarily...
the intensity of the other does that make sense
absolutely yeah 100 % because sometimes I mean
and I think part of it is sometimes the music
is just enough yeah that's true and sometimes
like it's more of a celebrity kind of a thing
and less and it's not necessarily to say the
music is like not as good but it's like maybe
they don't put everything you want to know or
what like Some artists put their whole soul into
their songs. Yeah. What else am I going to learn?
No, it's true. Well, sometimes I think it's just
human curiosity to be curious about something
that affects you. So if music, if a song really
affects you and makes you pay attention to it,
you're going to want to know everything you can
about it. And that's kind of how I think. And
there's that visual element to the music video.
That's true. And I think because that's what
you said you saw in the music video. Yeah, latched
on to that. I think that almost elevated that
obsession for a lot of people. Yeah. When it
went from just having the record. For sure. To
seeing the video in their living room. Yep. It
was a different thing. Yeah, we lived out in
the middle of nowhere. Like on Frog Pond, we
lived at the end of a two -mile dirt road in
a trailer that my mom was building a house. So
there was no internet. There was no cable. There
was nothing. The only way I got to see videos
was when I went to babysit. So when I was babysitting,
I would watch their TV and see MTV, and that's
when I didn't have any other way even to listen
to it. I mean, we could listen to the radio,
but think about who is the DJs in North Alabama
at that time. They were just playing the hits.
You didn't find anything new by listening to
the radio in North Alabama very often. I mean,
and you still don't. Yeah, you still don't. Maybe
for different reasons now. Yeah. But MTV really
opened it up to a lot of people, I think. You
know, videos started a huge music revolution,
even though it was weird. And I think eventually
it kind of made it so, like, looks mattered a
lot more. That's true. But early on, I don't
think that's true. I mean, there were a lot of
ugly people in music. For sure. Yeah, so it's
had, like, everything has bad and good. Yeah,
for sure. So what's the first concert you remember
going to? Because I'm guessing you don't remember
that Ike and Tina. I do not. My parents, my mom
would go, she worked for a band. Like she would
do album cover art and t -shirt art and stuff
like that for this band. And she took us to a
festival that they were playing. And I remember
being there and running around in front of the
stage while they were playing. And then they
took us onto their tour bus, which I do in quotes,
because it was just a school bus that had been.
And I got to sit next to the keyboard player
and I'm like, oh, my God, he's so cool. And he
was like talking to me about playing. You know,
he's just like this little girl is really cute.
And I'm just like, I want to marry you. It was
very much that kind of just like I was stunned
by the fact that I saw him on stage playing.
And then I could sit next to him and talk to
him. And it was I was just blown away. I was
just blown away that he was just a normal person,
you know, that I could touch. When do you think
that like fully set in for you? Because I think
like. I have a very similar kind of experience.
Oh, yes? I mean, I can't even think of anything
super specific. But eventually that melts away,
and you are just like, these are just normal
people too. Do you remember when you started
to feel less starstruck when you would be around
musicians? No, because I'm still that way. Are
you still that way? Yeah. I mean, I think I hide
it until they leave, and then I'm like... Yeah,
I try really hard. I'm pretty good at it now,
for sure. But, you know, when I met Patterson
Cooley, they weren't famous at all. So I never
had that with them. We always were brothers or
whatever. But then they would introduce me to
bands, like going to Florida with the truckers.
I was riding in the van with them at one point,
and Patterson said, you're going to love this.
And he put on Barrel Chested by Slobberbone.
And within the first song, I was like, oh. I
love this. I think this is going to be my new
obsession. And damn if he wasn't right. He was
absolutely right. So then, like a couple of months
later, I went to South by Southwest. It was whatever
the little thing they had in Denton. It was like
a Denton festival. And I saw... I remember seeing
Brent Best walking around a record store. And
I just kind of walked by him, and I wanted to
say something to him so bad because I knew he
knew the Truckers. But I didn't know him at all,
and he didn't know me at all. And I remember
him looking at me and me going, I've got to get
out of here. I've got to get out of here. So
I just ran away. I just ran away. And then later
when I met him, he's just so nice. And, of course,
all the groups that Truckers introduced me to,
Centromatic, Slobberbone, and just Supergroup,
all those guys were fantastic. Super nice people.
I'm just lucky that they've introduced me to
their music. Slobberbone is not true. My buddy
Craig turned me on to Slobberbone when I was
18. Shout out to Craig. We still hang out. That's
killer. I can't imagine finding them at 18. That
would have changed my entire life. I found the
truckers at 18, and it changed my entire life.
I mean, it did. I was working at a record store.
I've actually said this on the podcast before,
but he's very similar to Patterson finding Led
Zeppelin. I just saw the artwork, and it looked
cool, and I took it home. He's the fucking trucker.
That's amazing. So many people have found him
that way. That's so cool, though. That's because
West Freed is a badass. I mean, he's the fucking
man. I need to get one. I think... The care that
they have always put into the whole package is
part of what attracts people that care about
that stuff a lot. And that's why they end up
with such an art -loving fan base. I agree. You
know what I mean? Patterson always wanted...
He was resentful that he couldn't put out whole
vinyl albums with the covers and the books and
all that stuff. He really liked that. At the
beginning, the fact that we couldn't put that
out with Southern Rock Opera when he... decided
to crowdsource it, one of the first crowdsourced
things ever. He really wanted to do a vinyl,
I believe, and we just couldn't pull it off.
I was really lucky. I got into them right when
the Dirty South came out. Oh, nice. And I got
a promo copy a few weeks before. Oh, wow. Because
you worked at a record company? A record store?
I worked at a record store, and it was going
to be on a listening post, so they sent us way
more copies than we needed. Wow. And then the
next day, literally the next day, I bought Decoration
Day and Southern Opera. But then, like, a month
later, two months later, they reissued Gangsta
Billy and Pizza Deliverance. And they put all
of it on vinyl at that point. So, like, I just,
I got into them at the point where you could
get all of that stuff, like, on the best format.
That's awesome. I was just really, you know,
kind of lucky there. I mean, also just the right
place at the right time. I mean, really, I don't
know how I would have gotten into it. I wouldn't
even into southern music or anything. That's
so cool. I mean, really, it is just the fact
that the album cover caught your eye, and here
we are. Yeah, yeah. That's so cool. The world's
a magical place. It really is. It's so interesting.
Same for me. My mom was, I'll tell you how I
met the truckers. I don't know if that's interesting
or not. Am I jumping it too fast? No, you're
good. I've got ADHD, and so you have to listen.
I do. It's so hard to go. It's so hard to grow
in a straight line, isn't it? My mom was dating
this magician, Steve Trash. Steve Richardson.
He was doing a show at Earth Day, and my best
friend, Chris Quillen, Monster, who I'd known
because I was a fan of his band, Stain Mecca,
he was playing, they were playing at this Earth
Day thing, too. So I had planned to go, but I
kind of, my mom talked me into really going.
I kind of was going to blow it off, but she was
like, come on, you know, you'll get to meet Steve,
and he's awesome. You'll see him do magic and
stuff. And then Stain Mecca played. Steve did
his thing, and Stain Mecca played, and then...
adams house cat came on and they were so crazy
loud like i had seen them before one time at
brass lantern and they were not my style like
i was just like not into paterson's voice i wasn't
into any of it and i was in a bad mood and i
was drunk and all this stuff so i didn't like
them first i really didn't but when i saw them
at earth day they were really good you know and
they were really belligerent and i like that
a lot so then And Patterson, I think I kind of
talked to him a little bit. I was standing with
Chris, and we were all talking about what we
were going to do, and they were talking about
going to a party in Tuscumbia. And so we all
ended up going to that same party together, and
that's where I got to hang out with Patterson
Cooley and got to know them. John Cahoon was
there. I don't think Chuck came to that. I'm
almost sure he didn't. He didn't stay long. But
then the next thing that happened. after that
night was that they chris wanted a ride to muscle
sound and muscle sound was where they were recording
town burn down and so that's what they wanted
him for was for a backing vocal to do on that
so i got to hang out with them in the studio
there and that was the first time i'd ever been
into a real live studio you know and it was muscle
sound which was really cool at the time yeah
and um They were super nice, and I remember thinking
that the PGA was something they were drinking,
that they were, like, drinking it, and Patterson
was like, no, we cleaned the tapes with this.
You know, this isn't teaching me about what they
actually do with this. I was like, oh, I thought
y 'all were going to be tore up in here, and
they were drunk, but it wasn't like that. It
wasn't like they were drinking that. Yeah, that
was the first time. That was how I met them,
and then it just kind of went on from there.
Were you already, like, working with bands and,
like, promoting bands? I was doing, like, just
flyers and stuff for Stain Mecca and other bands
around. what I could. But back then, there was
no internet. I was in college. How did you go
from not having TV at home to being a web developer?
Actually, well, I did a lot of stuff for Adams
Housecat until they broke up. And then Patterson
moved to Athens. So I had moved to Florence and
was going to UGA, UNA, sorry, UNA, and had the
internet and stuff like nerd or not the internet
but um cable tv and stuff like that so i could
see videos and stuff but then he moved so you
moved here to come to college well no i didn't
i'd already gone to college at una i already
graduated i went ahead and graduated from una
then adam's house cat went around then uh patterson
they broke up and patterson cooley went around
as uh virgil cain right and My brother played
in a band with them, Horse Pussy. He was the
drummer for Horse Pussy. So we stayed interlocked.
But when Patterson moved to Athens and started
Truckers, he kept saying, you know, come, bring
Chris, let's just come. So he moved here first?
Yeah, he moved here. He moved here. He wanted
Krillin, he wanted Monster to come move and play
with them too. And Chris was never going to leave
Florence. He's just... marry me is Chris he was
happy where he was you know two or eight lanes
it don't matter it's just a little town he's
but he was playing with fiddle worms at the time
and so anyway Chris died he got killed in a car
accident and when that happened everything stopped
everything went away for a little while and all
of my friends came over to my house all of everybody
was there what happened why is this we couldn't
believe because he was the most of all the people
full of life he was the most full of life of
anybody I ever met he just he reeked of being
alive he wanted to have fun and enjoy life and
he was the least reliable way less than rob malone
he was so unreliable you couldn't count on him
you had to go pick him up he never had a car
you know he was just that guy he was just there
to have a good time and when he died it affected
everybody i mean the funeral was one of the biggest
funerals florence had ever seen it's the trail
of cars going to the cemetery i just remember
it took so long to get there because everybody
loved him everybody and patterson and i And Cooley,
I believe, all had dreams about him the same
night. Anyway, that gets into a lot of stuff.
But yeah, there was... Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's right. My dream was simple. It was
just Chris came and sat on my lap, which he did
a lot, because he's like five, six or something,
and I'm six foot. And so he would come sit on
my lap and just tell me, he just came sat on
my lap and said, it's okay, everything's going
to be okay. everything's going to be okay. Just
follow the path. Just follow the path. And then
he just like... The path is what Patterson said.
Yeah, he never showed me a path or anything in
my dream. He just sat on my lap and told me it
was okay. Because I was crying and told me it
was okay. It was going to be okay. So that was
the same night that Patterson had his dream.
And I don't know. I kind of remember Cooley having
a dream, but I haven't really talked to him about
that. Yeah, and that's fine. I mean, I think
he was right. Everything seems to be going all
right. It really did pretty well. I don't know
how much I believe in all that stuff or what,
if it was our own minds doing it to us or what.
It doesn't really matter, but I can still hear
Chris's voice. When I go to see bands, he still
stands next to me. In fact, the night that he
died, I was seeing the Posies in Nashville. I
had no idea that I could even make it through
that concert because he and I loved the Posies
together. He was my best friend, you know, and
so I just... My boyfriend was with me at the
time and we were with a couple of other friends
and they just said, just go because that's what
he would do. He would want you to go. And through
the whole concert, he was with me. I mean, I
just knew he was with me the whole time. I could
feel him. And so I think he's guided us. If that's
a possibility, he's the one doing it. I don't
know what I believe, but I do know when my grandfather
died, I woke up that morning and my mom knocked
on my bedroom door. I was like probably 15. And
she goes, I need to tell you something. And I
said, I already know grandpa's dead. Oh, that's
so messed up. Yeah, that's crazy. And how that,
just some people have a connection. Yeah. I can
see you like tearing up right now. It's scary,
but I mean, I had no idea. I didn't know anything.
I was asleep in Nashville and my mom called me
and I was talking to her on the back porch. I
was just happy and excited about going to see
the show. And she goes, I have something really
bad to tell you. And I just remember my knees
hitting the deck really hard. Like, cause I just,
I didn't know. I didn't, I'd shut down. I just
shut down. And that's how it happens sometimes.
But after that, Patterson was like here in Athens.
I had to get out of there. Two weeks after Chris
was killed, I had a bad car accident, which broke
my femur into several pieces and broke my wrist.
Fucked up my forehead and had a head injury from
that. Had a head injury from the year before
with another car accident. So that's why my memory
is really bad. It does. It really does. I mean,
you're recalling all this great. So you moved
like almost immediately? As soon as I could walk
again. As soon as I could walk again. And I was
on crutches because my leg actually had a rod
in it that was too long. The doctor that did
the surgery was also the doctor that did the
surgery on Patterson's stepmother when she broke
her femur. And that was a fucking nightmare.
But he had put a rod in my leg that was too long.
Nails in my knee, nails in my hip. And I walked
around on it broken when I moved to Athens for
a year. I had no idea. I just thought it was
going to hurt like that forever. So I had gotten
like tattoos and brands and all this stuff trying
to like understand the pain or deal with the
pain because I thought it was just like that.
And then I finally went to a doctor here and
he was like, oh, your leg's still broken. Let's
take that out and put in another rod. And it
healed within a couple of months. So it was incredible
the amount of pain that I was in. I had no idea
that I wasn't supposed to be in it. But once
I moved here, Patterson was already starting
to get truckers going. And he was, you know,
they were kind of that rockabilly, what is it?
It wasn't rockabilly. What was the, I can't remember
the term for it that they used. It was like,
you know, they were all playing the star bar
and it was truckadelic and the truckers. Psycho
Billy kind of stuff. But truckers didn't really
fit into any of those genres. Their songwriting
was too good. The lyrics were too real, you know.
So it wasn't just this party fun time music like
everybody else was doing. It was real music.
They dress it up like that sometimes. Yeah, they
do. And that's what a lot of people still love.
You can see people come to concerts and they're
just there for the let there be rock or whatever,
you know. They don't. even listen to the lyrics
they obviously if they're having a trump hat
on they are not listening to the lyrics right
yeah i mean it still amazes me that people don't
that they don't get it yeah but it's because
of those anthem songs i think they hear those
and they're just like yeah southern yeah you
know yeah well i mean you know A certain level
of ignorance is required to wear a Trump hat
in the first place. That's true. That's true.
I guess it makes sense. At least they're consistently
ignorant. That's right. That's right. Across
all platforms. Dumb. So what did you study at
UNA? When I was at UNA, I was a commercial music
major. Okay. So you knew you wanted to... I did.
I already knew. I mean, I was in classes with
Chris. So we had like... orchestration class
together. You know, we had interesting, weird
classes together and we would, but I think my
internship was with Johnny Sandlin at Duct Tape
Studios and he did Brothers and Sisters. You
know, Johnny Sandlin. Yeah, I mean, I talked
to Baylor. Oh, really? I did. So I helped him
and my mom, actually the print company that she
worked for printed the Good Luck Charm album
cover and the posters and Jerry Joseph with the
angel baby, those posters and that cover. They
printed all that stuff. So because of my connection
there, I had gotten that hooked up, which was
really cool to have that as part of my family
too. My mom got involved. But yeah, that internship
didn't last super long. I was working for Backdoor,
which was owned by John Bell and Johnny Sandlin.
And then they decided to hire. another person
who ended up being another part of the trucker
story that we don't really talk about but yeah
i quit that and left and moved back to alabama
and that's when chris died and then i had my
wreck and then after i wrecked i moved to athens
because patterson was already here let's go back
to una first what was the extent of their like
integration of technology into their curriculum
at in the commercial music program? At the time,
it was pretty good. I mean, like, we had studio
classes. We could record out. We recorded songs
and stuff like that. It was further, the commercial
music program itself was new, and nobody had
really done that. So they had all new equipment.
Yeah, they had a studio and all that stuff. Were
they talking about the Internet being a tool?
Not at all. Not at all. Nobody had, at that point,
I mean, this was... Right at the beginning of
the internet, yeah. So it had been out. There
was BBU. Yeah, you could get it. There was bulletin
boards. That's what we were on mostly. It was
bulletin boards and stuff like that. And IRC
chat. Right. And stuff like that. So that was
about that time. And then when I moved to Athens,
that's... When did you get internet? I got...
Well, I didn't until I moved to Athens. But that
was the same, you got dial -up when you moved
to Athens? I had dial -up in Muscle Shoals for
a little while, but I really only did bulletin
boards, and I didn't have the internet. Were
you using that at all to promote bands, though?
Like, locally, were you using the bulletin boards?
Some, but really, it was not... At that time,
it wasn't separated out that well, so you would
just know somebody who had a bulletin board,
and you would go over to their bulletin board
and hang out with them and talk to them about
that stuff. Gotcha. There wasn't a place where
you could go search, that I knew of, where you
could go search for certain music forums or something
like that. Did your bulletin board have a reputation?
No, it was really small. It was really small.
I'm just trying to help you understand why I'm
asking this stuff. I'm trying to understand,
because I think, I mean, you're literally at
the beginning of this stuff, you know, the internet
being available to a lot of people in mass, to
where even if you had the internet, if only five
other people did, then using it to promote a
band is not really going to help. Yeah, there
wasn't a lot. There wasn't a lot. When I moved
here, I got a job at a print shop. And then they,
I did a print, like a bullet, like a... not a
brochure for this company called Infront. And
they were a banking, internet banking company.
So that was the first real online thing that
I had done anything for. But this was a print
thing and they loved my design. So they hired
me and taught me to make websites. That was the
very beginning. So it started with like graphic
design. Yep. And then this company kind of fostered
your talent. That's right. That's right. They
eventually got bought by Intuit. And then I left
14 years later, I think it was. But, yeah, during
that time, during that first little bit of time.
We have another connection, actually, because
of my friend Matt Luffman. Oh, I know Matt. Yeah,
that's when we worked together, yeah. I've stayed
with him for Homecoming almost every year. So
shout out to Matt Luffman. Yeah, he's a good
guy. Yeah, yeah. I was hanging out with him at
Bad Ends last night. That's so cool. Yeah. The
world is a small place. Yeah, it really is. So
when did you take the skills this print company
was giving? It was actually by then it was Infront.
So Infront had stolen me from the print company.
Okay, gotcha. So Infront steals you from the
print company. They started training me to do
websites, and then immediately the first thing
I did was make a trucker's website. I mean, it
was literally the first website I ever made on
my own that wasn't related to work. And the work
ones, I'd only made a couple. So that was like
the third one with the trucker on the front when
he's smoking and, you know, the original art
that Chip Stacey did. And then I made, right
after that, I made Hayride and I made Supergroup.
All those websites, those three websites were
the first three that I ever made that were banned.
And I just did it because I loved them and I
wanted them to have some kind of presence out
there. And you were the only person that even
knew these websites existed. That's right. Nobody
even knew. By this point, there was Yahoo groups,
right? So there was an internet happening and
things were moving around. I just wasn't so into
it. Did you get domain names? Yeah, I went and
got drivebytruckers .com and we got supergroup
.com and hayride .com, you know, yeah. It was
pretty, nobody was after that stuff. These websites,
folks. These are old school HTML. That's right.
That's right. We made it straight up HTML, CSS.
I didn't think we had CSS. I doubt it. I don't
even think we had CSS back then in my memory.
Yeah. I don't think it existed until like 97.
Right. I think you're right. I have such a bad
memory for all that. But yeah, that website was
really bad. And you can still see it on the Wayback
Machine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'll link it in the
description. Oh, you should. It's so bad. We
had such dumb things like breaker one nine little
button on the front for the news. It was just
cheesy. And it was so Patterson had a Patterson
Cooley hated the internet. They were just absolutely
against it. Cooley still hates it. Doesn't like
it at all. And I understand that. It's gotten
a lot worse. It used to be like this magical
place. It's almost like he could see what was
coming. He's like, this is going to end bad.
This is going to end bad. I think people like
me and you who were there dealing with the internet
in the mid, late 90s, when it was still kind
of this insiders club, a little bit of nerds.
We thought it was awesome. It was awesome back
then. There's so much potential. And you know
what? What ruined it is the same thing that ruins
everything. Money. Greed. Billionaires. Yep.
Yeah. It's true. Greed gets involved and it's
just... Every time. Yeah. Every time. It could
have been the best way to spread information
and knowledge. But it was for a short amount
of time. It was for a short amount of time, yeah.
Yeah. It truly was. I remember in 2005, just
thinking how amazing it was that everybody had
an encyclopedia in their pocket. Could just pull
it out and find out anything. And now they've
created a new form of illiteracy. That's right.
You can't even pay attention. Yeah. You might
have the ability to read, but... Yeah. Do you
really? Yeah. Exactly. It's funny. It really
has made us less than more. At what point did
you think that this could be a useful tool and
not just like, oh, this is fun. I like making
websites. Well, so we had the Yahoo group that
Brandon Haney started. And Brandon Haney had
started the Truckers Yahoo group. And then I
got made an admin of it when I made the website
and all this stuff. And he and I, he mostly.
handled all that but i would go on there and
promote and what i wanted to do was to get people
to go see him live that was my thing because
i knew live they could fucking wipe the floor
with anybody i know and so i was just like a
rite of passage for my close friends they have
you have to see him live because otherwise it's
like we don't even speak the same language it's
true that's true that's a very good way to put
it but yeah i had my goal was to get them more
people in the crowds they were touring 300 days
a year i mean they were on the road all the time
So I just wanted them to make money and be able
to put out albums because that's what they needed
to do. That was the thing. So me and Brandon
would promote there. I would hop from Yahoo groups
to Yahoo groups and try to find other Yahoo groups
and try to find other places on the Internet
where I could talk about them in a way that didn't
seem like I worked for them. And pretend like,
oh, these guys are so great. And it actually
worked. What was your official title with them
at that time? I don't think I had an official
title. I was just a webmaster. And so because
of that, I also answered all the emails that
came in. Yeah, so I was forever the person who
responded to any emails that came to the trucker's
site or trucker's questions or anything like
that. And I could get in trouble sometimes. Patterson
would be like, why did you say that? But for
the most part, I knew what he wanted. So I just
keep it within the lines of what he wanted it
to be. But that's, I think, why he did that.
Well, not only that, but he lived with me for
a little while after his first. divorce timeline
is sketchy but yeah he lived with me for a little
while and um that's when he wrote the or i think
that's what the check my mail gen thing is about
is about that because he was always gone he was
there but he was living with me but he was always
gone Gotcha. Yeah. It was like his stuff was
there. His stuff was there. Yeah, his stuff was
there. I still have a bunch of the stuff that
he left at my house. One day you auction it off.
No. That happens to him all the time though.
He'll leave stuff at people's houses and then
we'll see it on fucking eBay. That's great. Man,
Roddy, I thought Roddy left a pair of sunglasses
at my house and I messaged him and he was like,
I was like, can I? Tell people they were. These
are yours. It was somebody that came. He picked
them up a couple days later. That's funny. I'm,
like, always, like, taking it to the... I'm just
joking about it. Yeah, for sure. Let me just
take this as far as I can. Why not? I don't even
want to... I don't even care if they were actually
yours, but they appeared in my house after you
played here. Same time. Now they are. So when
did it start to, like, when did you feel like
it was working? And, like, when did you start
to feel like, oh, people are coming to the shows
because of the stuff I'm doing on the Yahoo groups
and the website? Did you even have a way to tell?
There was no way to tell back then how it was
going. Attendance started picking up at shows,
and they were able to make enough money. When
he said he wanted to do Southern Rock Opera,
and he wanted to get people to invest in this,
there was no crowdsourcing. That was not a thing.
We didn't have Kickstarter, none of that stuff.
He was just, put something on the website that
says we want people to invest. And so we put
something on the website, and people invested.
And we got the album made. really fucking quick.
And this is in like the year 2000, 99, 2000.
Somewhere in there, yeah. And so that was when
I knew that the internet had this power. And
I know that Patterson knew a bunch of the people
that invested personally and he talked to them.
So it wasn't all the internet by any means. So
Kickstarter, just for the record, was founded
on April 28, 2009. Wow. I could have started
that a long time ago. And I've missed that opportunity
so many times I can't even talk about it. And
I'm sure you have, too. You know, anybody who's
on the internet, you're like, wow, I've thought
about PayPal a million times. Well, I also just
think, like, people like you and me that were
latching on to bands and pushing them, like,
we, there's something, like, we, you sniffed
out a lot of bands that ended up being really
successful and, you know, have. shocking legacies
you know what i mean and i feel like the same
kind of like you know i ended up with working
with the two you know two of the five local bands
that just happened to get signed from you know
as a teenager and i guess my point is like do
you have you ever felt like you were almost like
a muse or like a good luck charm or I do feel
like a good luck charm sometimes, but I kind
of think of it more like I'm the ashtray that
people put their cigarettes on him. Like I'm
the one they all come together and this is weird
all. And I know that's terrible. That's not,
that's just how it appears in my head. But I
feel like I know a lot of people. I have a, I
think what somebody told me is I'm a connector.
And I think that you're that way too. So like
you're the person who. You know the people, and
you connect the people, and you make things happen
that way. But it's not really anything that you
do yourself. You just happen to be the person
that everybody likes. I think this podcast is
the first time I've ever been able to turn that
into something productive. Yeah, and that's fantastic.
And I think that website that I made for the
truckers was the first time I was too. How did
you evolve the website as the technology got
better? Did you find yourself wanting to keep
up with the latest programming languages and
doing new tricks on the site? It was my job still.
For all those years I worked for Intuit, I was
a web developer. So that's what I did. So I had
to keep up on it. Because it was banking, you
had to be super on top of everything. So Intuit
was educating you on how to make... That's right.
These bands' websites better and better. Yeah,
that's right. But Patterson always wanted to
keep the trucker's website pretty simple. He
wanted it to have the information, and this was
my philosophy as well. It needs to be something
that's easy to find, easy to navigate. have the
information that you want there. It doesn't necessarily
have to have bells and whistles and spinning
things and jumping things. It's not the point.
The point is the information is there. And if
you could find where to see them next and where
to buy their albums, it was successful. You know
what I mean? Get the lyrics. You can get the
lyrics. That's successful. Things that people
want. That, I think, was one of the... I think
the Drive -By Truckers were one of the first
bands I ever was aware of to put their lyrics
on their website. Yeah, and it's... Still to
this day, the most hit pages of all are the lyrics
pages. Wow. Because people will go to the front
page, and then they'll hit. Was that something
that you pushed for? Patterson and I both wanted
lyrics, but Patterson really, he was very big
on having his lyrics out there, or their lyrics
out there, and for good reason, because that's
what's part of their charm. I mean, I think that's,
the artwork is what. You know, invited me in.
The lyrics is what made me stay. Yeah. Because
you hear that one turn of phrase and you're like,
holy shit, this is amazing. I'm putting people
on the moon on repeat that night. And it was
all over. That was it? That was the song for
you was putting people on the moon? It was putting
people on the moon. Wow. It was all over. I mean,
there's so many great songs on the Dirty South.
I know. That happened to me with. Yeah. That
was just the first one. Yeah. Daddy's Cup is
another one. Yeah. Goddamn Lonely Love is another
one. I know. You know, I mean, it's just, yeah.
I remember when they gave me the roughs for that
record. I was living on King Avenue over here
in Athens, and I just had pulled in. I was listening
to it on the car on a tape deck. You know, Patterson
made me the tape, and I was listening to it in
the car, and I was driving home, and it was almost
over, and I parked in my driveway just bawling
because I knew. I knew it was one of the best
things I'd ever heard. I couldn't believe that
my friends put that out. I just couldn't believe
it. And I just sat there in the car crying for
probably 45 minutes and listening to it over
and over because it was just so fucking good.
And there's something about, there's a disconnect
that you have where you can't, these people who
you fart in front of you, you know, they have
this incredible, incredible skill to put your
feelings into words and they did it and this
whole album was just astounding to me i couldn't
believe it there's yeah there's nothing on that
record that there's not a single note that i
would i haven't have it but i haven't even wanted
to listen to the and i know i need to but i haven't
even listened to the reboot the reboot because
i just loved that i know version of that I know.
I'm that way with a lot of those, too. I really
don't want to hear that. But they do a good job
with me. And I understand, like, first of all,
I've been trusting them for a long time. They're
not, you know, they're, he's making it better.
Like, he's making it the way he wanted it to
be in the first place. Right. You know, and I
respect that. And I do want to experience it
that way. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard to. It's
what you fell in love with. It's like your wife
gets a boob job. And you're just like. I love
it, but holy shit, I miss your old real titties.
You know what I mean? That is like the best fucking
analogy for a remaster of an album that you love
that I think I've ever heard. I've never really
thought about it that way either. That's fucking
brilliant. That's the immediate thought. We're
both like crying over this album. Isn't that
crazy? Do you want a church? Sure, yeah. I mean,
that's what... That's what they do to you. It
really is. And that's the thing about the truckers
to this day, to this fucking day. I've never
seen a show where I didn't think they were better
than they were the last time I saw them. And
I don't know how it's possible to keep getting,
like I've seen some shows where they were super
drunk and it was really bad, but it was still,
the passion was there. The feeling was there
that made it a great show. I was talking to Sloane
Simpson. And he's been on the podcast, but I
was just talking to him. We became like, but
he came on the podcast and we just saw, I heard
that one. And we were just like, how are they
still getting better? Yeah. And this was just
after homecoming this year, because I felt like
the Southern rock opera reboot or, you know,
the tour was one of the smartest things that
they did for themselves as a band, because. especially
being there hearing the last time they did it
and i and i heard i saw that tour total of four
times i saw new orleans birmingham atlanta wow
and then the final night and um fuck i don't
if the show they played after where they played
not a single song they like That set list Friday
night, or Thursday night, they didn't play a
single song that they had played on that tour.
Yeah. And it was like they fell in love with
their whole catalog all over again. Yeah. It's
great when they have such a huge catalog to pick
from. It's kind of crazy. Is it like 250 songs
now or some shit like that? And Patterson was
complaining last time I saw him, just like, I
can't remember. I'm like, well, no shit, dude.
How do you remember half the things? You've written
so much. They're so prolific. It's so funny because
some of the fans remember him better. But it's
like, dude, we're autistic as fuck. It's helpful.
I know he looks out in the audience to get the
answer sometimes. He has to. Yeah, yeah. Cooley,
too. He can't remember. But, yeah. They just
keep getting better. They do. Despite the fact
that occasionally they might forget a lyric or
something. Just as a band. They're tighter than
they've ever been. Now that they've settled into
themselves, they're all happy. There's no infighting.
There's no drama. It's just everybody's good.
Everybody's ready to rock, and that's what they
do. Let's go back to this crowdfunding thing.
I feel like we talked about the tour 25 years
later. That was the culmination of... That whole
thing, yeah. How did you set up just the mechanics
and the logistics for something like that? How
did you collect payment? I'm trying to think
of all the things that Kickstarter or somebody
does. It really wasn't me. All I did at that
point was tell people that that was what was
happening. Patterson's the one who took care
of all of it. I think Earl might have helped
some, too, but he took the money. He did the
IOUs. People were just giving him checks and
cash. Giving him checks and cash. And you know
what? He paid everybody back with interest. Have
you ever heard of that ever happening? I don't
even know how. I've never yet. Like what? Well,
they sold like a thousand copies out of the back
of their van. That's how they did it. That's
right. That's how he paid people back. That's
right. And he paid people back. And they were
still able to. Keep going, you know, somehow.
I don't know. I had no idea what the numbers
actually were in and out. That'd be a question
for him. Right, right. Well, I mean, that's not
super interesting either. But I think what is
interesting is the spirit behind that. Well,
there was no social media. There was no social
media. So we didn't have any way to really spread
the word. But these people believed in it, too.
For sure. Because what I think was interesting
about what you just pointed out. These people
did not expect to get their money back. They
were just putting the money into something. Yeah,
they were just staying here. Yeah, that's right.
And people at Kickstarter don't really expect
to get their money back either, so it's not anything
that's done. They've put some more fail -safes
into it nowadays, I think. But, yeah, I mean,
I think especially in the early days of it, when
you were doing it in the same spirit of what
they were doing, you know, with the rock opera,
yeah, people were just like, no, I want to support
this project. But once they started touring with
Southern Rock Opera, that was the end. I mean,
that's when all the people started noticing,
the articles started coming out that were praising
them and their writing and all that stuff, and
that's when shit started really building. And
I could tell online, I could tell by then that
we were getting much more hits, people were really
starting to talk, and the forums were all gathering
new members and stuff like that, and then social
media came about. And it was MySpace. And, you
know. When did Three Dimes Down start? And how
much did you work with them on just, like, collaboration?
So, originally, there was another one, I think.
Okay. And I can't remember what it was called.
But there was another board like that. And then
Three Dimes Down started, I think, the same person.
But I could be misremembering that. You may have
to cut that because I don't know what I'm talking
about. But, yeah. I think the fact that you said
you don't know that, you know, you're not sure.
Yeah, I don't remember. Maybe somebody will email
in with the answer. I don't remember when Three
Diamonds Down started, but I do know I was in
communication with the guy who started all that
stuff for a while. He sent me tapes and stuff.
And it was great. That was there. I never really
got, I got on it some, but not a whole lot. Yeah,
I was not ever active on it. It was just, it
was kind of fascinating, though, to go and watch
people talk about these people. That I knew.
And it's not like now you see on Facebook it's
totally different because it's so much more,
it's not anonymous necessarily, but people are
so much more used to saying shitty things. Yeah.
As long as there's a computer in front of them,
they're fine saying stuff. So like Jason Isbell's
Facebook group. Right. Miserable, right? People
are just so hateful and so mean to him. And it's
like, what the... You're talking about stopping
by? Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what the... What the
fuck is wrong with people? Why are you here just
to bash somebody? I will say our friend Courtney.
Oh, yeah, now Courtney's taking over. She'll
whip him into shape, no doubt. I think so. Shout
out to Courtney. Courtney. The Drive -By Truckers
Facebook group. Yeah. Keeps that place, like,
super clean. Yeah, she really does. I don't know
what we would have done without her. I couldn't
take it on. I have too much other stuff to do.
So by the time the truckers really got big on
the Internet. It was out of my hands. I even,
like Jason Wilson, who does the social media
now, way back, gosh, I guess it's been 10 years
ago or more, I gave that to him because I was
like, I just don't have time. I have a job. I
have a life. I can't take care of everything.
So he took over social media. Thank God. He's
done an amazing job. And so has... Everybody
else who was involved with all those little bits,
Tracy Thomas promoting them is the reason they
are where they are because she knows how to promote.
It had a little bit to do with the internet starting
and us badgering people to go see them live and
badgering people to go see them live for years.
And then once Southern Rockhopper hit, Tracy
Thomas came along. It was her. She just knows
how to do it, obviously, because she's now Jason's
manager. What's really interesting, though, is
now the internet is such a crowded place. Yeah.
It's this double -edged sword where anybody can
get heard, but you have to sift through everybody
to find good shit. And it's just getting worse
with AI. Unfortunately, AI is training on internet
content, which is now being filled with... content
that ai created so it's eating its own tail it's
sort of becoming a shittier and shittier version
so everything the ai comes up with now is based
on stuff that it created which was based on stuff
that was real but it's wild it's off like it's
always wrong a little bit so it just keeps getting
it's like the using the same mold for clay over
and over over time it just gets worse and worse
what's that called i forget what that's called
have you seen multiplicity Have I? I think so.
It's an old movie where it's from the 90s. That's
right. He's cloned. And then the clones keep
making copies of themselves. That's exactly right.
Each one is like a shittier movie. Gets a little
shittier. That's how the internet is ending up
now, sadly. I think it's just going to end up
as what it used to be. It's just a memory. But
for now, for this moment, at this moment now.
we still have a little bit of integrity left.
There's still places you can trust and there's
still things. That's why I think having an actual
website is important. So many bands gave up their
websites when they got social media or never
built a website when they got social media. That's
such a great point. Yeah. I made them hang on
to the website because I'm like, this is where
people want. This is the real thing. You know,
this is from you. This isn't somebody on fucking
Reddit saying that you're great or, you know,
anything else. This is your words here. This
is your presence. Let's keep it. Don't get rid
of it just because social media is out there.
Nobody comes to the website right now. I promise
they'll be back. And they will, right? Absolutely.
I mean, because everything out there is crazy.
So where do you go when you want to see where
they're playing? You go to their fucking website.
I know. I sure as hell don't buy tickets anywhere
else. Yeah. Because you're going to get scammed.
Scammed, yeah. Like, you go to the band's website
or the venue's website to get the tickets. Right.
And you don't go. It's direct. Don't even go
to Ticketmaster. Yeah. Or whatever. Like, you
just follow the link. That's right. It's direct
to the thing. You don't want to go fucking around
with. Some random link somewhere. I have definitely
come this close to buying scam tickets to a comedy
show or a sporting event that I was trying to
go to last minute. I know, man. So I recently
got into K -pop, which not really all of K -pop,
but there's a certain group that I really like
that produce their own stuff, write their own
stuff, and all that stuff. And just trying to
buy tickets for that online is insane. Insane.
Not only is the Ticketmaster resale thing, which
we all hate, right? Everybody fucking hates Ticketmaster.
But the scammers that are out there, it's crazy
how they're so good now. You can actually get
a ticket to the show, pay $600, and then show
up and the ticket's already been used. Ticket's
fucking been used, yeah. It's a mess. It's a
mess. It is crazy. I'm glad I'm not getting into
the internet today. And then there's some clubs
where they're just like, and I don't want to
name names, but they're just like, oh, what name
are the tickets under? Oh, yeah. You can literally
just know somebody has tickets. That's right.
That's all you got to do. And then you can walk
in and they're tickets. Yeah. So what do you
still hang on to in terms of like you've passed
social media on? Do you still do the website?
Where do your duties end? So recently we started,
we pull in the, for a long time, all I had really
changed was stuff. When they put out an album,
I'd change everything, of course. Put lyrics
up and whatever they wanted up. If Patterson
wrote a, you know, one of his missives, one of
his, where he tells everybody what's going on,
I would put that on the website. So I really
didn't have that much to do other than just keeping
it clean and keeping it, you know. You have like
Westfried fonts. No, I don't. I wish I did. We
should have made a Westfield font. But I'd get
as close as I could. I'm an artist, too. Yeah,
yeah, of course. I could do stuff. And, of course,
Patterson's sister, Lilla, she lays out all the
albums and does all the art for that stuff. You
could probably make a font if you've got enough
tour posters. You definitely could make a font.
But there's a lot of stuff that I can't do. Like,
Patterson wants, he's like, can we get every
tour poster scanned in and put online? Sure.
That's going to take me about 15 years. Yeah,
you need an archivist. I did work as an archivist.
Oh, really? I have a history degree. Oh, nice.
I'm just throwing things out there. I mean, start
collecting posters. Scanning them in. I will
say the collection of the homecoming posters
that's in the Company We Keep book is one of
the coolest things. Yeah. And they're really
high -quality scans. Yeah. There's so many posters.
So for merch, I did the merch for a while. I
was like the merch creator and manager and stuff
like that, but not for very long. And then before
that, I had started keeping a piece of every
merch that we did. And so at the headquarters
over here in Athens, we have a small collection
of everything that we had for the first few years.
that I just put up there. And then just one of
everything. So sometimes some of it disappears.
Somebody will go up there and find it. But we
tried to keep one of everything, which is kind
of cool. There's some old shit up there. But
then I just turned it over to them and stopped
collecting myself because they just got to be
too much. Like, they're putting out six t -shirts
or eight t -shirts. Yeah, every tour has. Yeah,
yeah. Every tour has three hats and two posters
or ten posters or whatever. It's just too much.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do think the archivist
in me says if they want it done, what you do
is you start doing it going forward. Yeah. And
then you slowly work through the back paddle.
Yeah. Well, just to do the West Freed ones would
be fantastic. And of course, without him, we
have a hard time. Although, you know, we could
go to where he lived and Jackie would let us
look at everything and take what we needed. But
it's just so much. I mean, he did so many posters.
He did so many. I could not, I don't even think
I could remember. He ordered a year, I think.
Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. And not to mention T -shirts
and everything else. I don't know what they're
going to do. Nobody knows what they're going
to do now. Well, Patterson did find a really
good solution with his last solo record. Yes,
absolutely. I really was hoping he would find
young, new artists and start using them. And
that's what he's done with his solo stuff. I
don't know what Truckers will do. Their brand
is so strong with Wes's stuff. They're going
to try to use it, I think, as long as they can.
You were talking earlier about how they didn't
really fit into any of that scene. like the Star
Bar and stuff like that, right? And I think part
of it is because it's, you know, they're lyrics
and they, like, I mean, in some ways they're,
like, writing folk songs but playing them, like,
heavy rock. I don't know. But I do know that
it only takes me, like, a note to know that it's
them. Yeah. They have the most distinctive sound
of any band in the last, like, 30, 40, 50 years
that I can think of. Yeah. And that's a lot of
Dave Barbie, too. He really helped with that
as well. Yeah. Yeah. I caught, like, part of
his set last night. My flicker was packed. I
bet it was. It was crazy. But I do think, like,
in the way that they have this, like, guitar
sound that is, like, so distinctive, you're right.
Like, Wes Breed's art. Even if it's not art for
them, it makes me think of them immediately.
I know. It's like, in the Singer to a Happy Ending,
he says that he hears things in the music that
they didn't write, and they saw things in his
pictures that he didn't draw. That's right. It's
like they were in conversation with each other.
I mean, it really is, to me, it's like losing
a member of the band. Yeah, it definitely is.
Not only that, but he was such a close friend.
Patterson, I don't know if we'll ever recover
from this. I feel like I'm still going through
it every day because, you know, he just called.
Like, he just called. I saw his name come up
on my phone, and I was like, yay, Wes is out
of surgery. And I picked it up, and it was Jackie
telling me he was dead. You know, I just, it
still blows my mind that it even happened. He
didn't, he wasn't, it wasn't time for him. No.
Something happened. And I don't think we ever
get over it. No, I don't think so. When we have
those losses like that. Yeah. It's still Craig.
Craig, Chris, Wes, just the people that we've
lost, it's insane. It's insane that we can keep
going sometimes, I think. Well, I mean, so I
always view Craig as kind of like the liaisons
of fans. God. He was the best. Like where I feel
like I was a connector, Craig had me beat. He
could remember people's names. He could talk
to anybody. He was just completely the friendliest,
nicest person in the world. And he could just
make you feel welcome. And that's why he was
so good at it. There's a hole that will never
get filled by our friends. But in the sense of
there being like this outreach to the fans. I
feel like people like Jay really became like
this. And it was natural, I think, for him. Because
he's the nicest human on the face of the planet.
He really is. The point that I'm making is there's
so many people that believe in them, that love
them, that surround them. They've surrounded
themselves with so many good people that when
something like that happens, It's going to be
okay. You're going to figure it out. Somebody
always steps up and fills the role. The shoes
are never going to be filled, but the roles get
taken care of. When I saw Patterson on the solo
show, we talked for a few minutes in Atlanta
just a few months ago. And I was like, dude,
thank you for not letting me regret this. Because
I got this tattoo and I'm like 20. Wow, that's
crazy. I'm 39 now. That's amazing. And I'm like,
dude, thanks for not letting me regret this.
Wouldn't that have sucked? That's a big cover
-up right there. It goes back to what I think
we were talking about. I don't have any other
bands that I love tattooed on me. There's something
about us that we knew. Yeah. That they were that
special and like they would be around 20 years
later. Yeah. Or at least not disappointing us
with their exit, whatever it may be. Yeah. I
mean, just the thought of from him playing songs
on the floor of my living room when I was in
college to where he is now, where they are now.
It almost doesn't seem real. I mean, it really
doesn't. It doesn't seem like it's not real.
It doesn't seem like it's that weird. It's not
strange. I expected this to happen. I did expect
this to happen, but it's still really strange
to see, especially with Jason, how big he is
now and how huge that got. I didn't have a hand
in that at all. So I can't say, but just watching
it is something else. To watch it from this close.
I don't know that anybody but Jason's songs had
a hand in it, to be honest. He's so much more
accessible musically than a lot of the other
music that I love. And more than the Truckers.
I mean, he is more accessible than the Truckers.
He was the most accessible singer at the time
in the band, I think. And I don't think anybody
would argue with me there. You know, the funny
thing is, Jason, when he was with the band, I
remember very distinctly one night early on,
I was on tour with him, and we were in the tour
bus, and he came in late, really drunk, really
drunk. And he just sat beside me, and he goes,
you know, I just feel like I have something more
to do. There's something going on. I feel like
I'm meant for more than this. And I was so mad
at him. I was like... I didn't say anything at
the time because he was drunk. It wouldn't have
mattered. But I was just like, how could you
think that you are meant for more than the truckers?
Are they not incredible? Are you guys not happy
the way you are? And he's like, I just, I think
I was meant for more than, I think I was meant
for more. And I just, okay, good. You know, pat
him on the head, put him to bed, that kind of
thing. And then ignored it for then on. And then
I realized sometime, as sometime he, I think
a lot of people who are famous now have this
vision before they even really are, before they
know they are, before they know they can be.
And I want to know where that comes from. Like,
where do you have that certainty that it's going
to work out and you're going to be where you're
supposed to be? So, as, and I had this conversation
with slightly famous somebodies on Friday night
where, because they covered Fever Dog, the most
famous. Oh, really? Wow. They had a lot of connections
to that song and that movie. When I was a kid,
people told me, you're William Miller. You're
Cameron Crowe. You're that kid. And it was like
one of those things where it was like, yeah,
I kind of get what you mean. Yeah. And then I
had a kid. And I had to stay in Tallahassee,
and I had to raise my kid, and not had to. I
chose to do that. Yeah, of course. And that's
what I wanted to do. Of course. That was the
right thing to do. Well, it's not even the right
thing. I mean, it might not have been. Like,
if I wasn't engaged and involved in wanting to
do it, then it might not have been the right
thing to do. Like, maybe the better thing to
do is to walk away and not build resentment.
But you knew that was the right thing for you.
It was the right thing for me to do. Right. Exactly.
And it was what I wanted. don't have any regret
over that but I also know my daughter turned
18 this year and that's insane I'm now picking
up where I left off in a lot of ways when I was
18 and that's fine this is better this is better
than you going into it when you were young and
done I have all this like now you know that's
right it's like yeah that's why I've never been
upset that the truckers got famous as older people
because if they had gotten famous when they were
young like Jason did they could have gone through
this same horrible self -destruction. Who knows
what would have happened? Once I was free to
do what I wanted to do with my life again, without
worrying about necessarily making the safe decision
or the responsible choice, I went right back
to what I... You knew. I mean, I feel like in
a way I'm still just using this to promote bands
I like. You know what I mean? There's that aspect
of it. That's fine. You're still doing something
that you enjoy. All these things that I've done
throughout my life that I'm combining into it.
Last night, I'm hanging out with Kane Stanley,
who's the drummer of that band. He was on the
podcast. He was like... Yeah. He looks at me,
and this was one of the biggest compliments I've
ever gotten. He goes, I think doing your podcast
made our band have... better chemistry on stage
oh you know that's true though and I was just
like I was just like what like it means that
you had something to do with the beauty of what
came out of it it's nice it's a beautiful feeling
you told me that I'm doing what I'm doing what
you're supposed to be doing and I think I've
always known that yeah and you asked like how
you know when somebody has like this like I know
that I'm supposed to do something and this is
And I would disagree when Jason says that he's
meant for something bigger. Sure, he might be
more popular. And I love Jason. I mean, the man's
got grams. Sure, sure. But he would never be
where he was without the drive -by truckers.
And I knew so many bands that wouldn't even exist.
They changed my life. They changed everybody's
lives that really get into them. Half of my friendships
are like... surrounding their music, you know
what I mean? And it's good that most people who
know it, you know, Jason knows it, you know it,
they had an effect. They made you what you are.
And I love Jason. I'm not trying to... Oh, I
do too. And this is the drunk comment on a tour
bus 20 years ago. Exactly. I think you're right.
He knew that he was meant for something different.
Culturally speaking, I think the drive -by truckers
are more important than just Jason by himself
because... first of all jason wouldn't have a
so like he wouldn't he did that like part of
what made him such a good songwriter is because
he was competing with that's right i mean he
was already fantastic when he joined but for
sure he got better like took new levels when
he got sober and he admits all that you know
he really they influenced him very much just
that knowledge that just that foresight that
you have something to do that you haven't done
yet and that you are meant to do something that
you haven't done yet. That thing that drives
people, I think 90 % of humans don't have that.
They don't have that one thing that pushes you
forward. I'll tell you, it never went away. I
went 20 years and always needed it. I tried to
start a record label and the local shit. I also,
I didn't start doing stand -up until pretty recently.
And it's like, okay, well, I don't necessarily
care what my kid thinks of what I say on stage
anymore. Yeah. Or something like that, you know.
But I knew the whole time, I was like, I had
to fail a lot to find the thing that worked.
And I think I'm finding the thing that works.
But I always knew that, and I get what he meant
by more than. Yeah. More than in the sense of
just, I'm not done yet. Yeah. It was very much,
I need, I'm meant to do more than this. And I
guess I'm just using that as a springboard for
talking about your question where I'm like, I
don't want to say that I felt like I wanted to,
and I think parenting is a really good example.
Like I never was like, I want to do something
bigger than raising my kid. Yeah. And I don't
think that he probably wouldn't have viewed it
that way either. I understand. But I always felt
like I was more. Yeah. Like something else. Yes.
Something's coming. See, I never felt it. That's
why I think it fascinates me so much, is that
I never had a truth, like a solid, I feel like
I'm going to be this person. I feel like I'm
headed in this direction. This is where I need
to go. So I never had a direction. I just kind
of luckily jumped from one thing to the next
and happened to fall into the right place all
the time. I've always been super, super lucky
that way. But I think what Jason said that night,
that's all we know. Yeah. We don't know who that
person is going to be or whatever it is, but
I think that we do know there's more. There's
something else. There's something more for me.
Yeah. That's just such a fascinating idea that
some people can have it and some people don't.
Well, I wonder if it just means that you've already
found your groove, man. I don't know if it's
just I never really paid attention. I mean...
I consider myself one of the luckiest people
in the world. I really do. Me too. When people
say that you're really lucky, I'm like, perpetually.
I'm perpetually lucky. That's one of the reasons
I was wondering about this, because I didn't
really do anything to make myself anything special.
I never did anything. I was just who I am, and
I just fall into these places. Patterson put
my name in a song, and that made... People know
who I was. I answered the email for them, and
people knew who I was. It wasn't anything that
I actually tried to do or did. I just kind of
fell into these places. It's like with learning
Japanese. I started learning Japanese. Immediately,
I met three Japanese people who are great friends
of mine now, and they helped me teach Japanese.
So things like that, I just fall into it. I fall
into it every single time. It's kind of just
luck. What I would argue, though, is that you
know what you want, and you go get it. I didn't
do anything. It just falls into my lap. But you
did. I had a lap. That's what I did. I mean,
that's fine. And Chris sat in it in a dream.
Yeah. And he told you to stay on a path. Did.
But you also... Well, I followed the path that
Patterson was... But you didn't know what path
it was. He just said follow the path. I just
knew that I was going to promote my friend's
music as long as it was good. It was just...
your instinct yeah fans fans and you're this
way because when you love something you want
to share it with fucking everybody you want everybody
you have to it's almost it's so evangelical it
really is it's almost like you have to sit them
down and show them pictures and show them video
and show them make them listen make them listen
oh my new tube my new tube believe me because
i go through obsessions and right now like k
-pop they're just like what the fuck years ago
It was heavy metal, Japanese heavy metal. And
so it's just like, it switches all the time.
So they never know what to expect from me. But
yeah, just the fact that when something inspires
you so much that you have to sit down and tell
people about it, that's what's great. That's
all I did. That's all I've ever done is just
sit people down and be like, listen to this shit.
It's great. And that's a beautiful thing. That's
a connector, right? I mean, that's somebody who
does those. I think that you're like, saying
that you didn't do anything while saying all
these things that you did. Just because I think
the difference is that it was more like instinct
and impulse led you well. Yeah. And maybe you
weren't like, okay, I'm going to intentionally
do all these things. Yeah. But you just were
you. Yeah. I mean, when I first made their website,
I didn't know that a website would do anything.
You know, I just thought this is something I
can do. Yeah. It was really just. This is something
I can do. I'm going to do it. And maybe it'll
help. Yeah. Maybe so. You see what I mean? Yeah.
I'm just like, well, you just took this knowledge
that you had and you did this thing. And in a
way, you predicted the future. I like that idea.
I really like being ahead of the curve on top
of things, if I can, for them. Not necessarily
for me, but for them. I want them to be, you
know, on top of shit. I want them to be on everybody's
mind because they're so good. They should be.
They can teach you. The lyrics can make you understand
things that you may not understand. They're the
most literary band. It's really insane. That
I've ever encountered. There are others comparable,
but nobody does it like them. No, I mean, they're
just... The stories that they're able to pack
into three minutes. The way they say it. Especially
Cooley. Well, Patterson, too. They're both. Jason,
too. I mean, all of them. Oh, yeah. And I still
don't really separate them. Yeah. People talk,
and that's... Part of it, too, is like, yeah,
Jason's doing, he's solo, but he's still part
of the same thing. I think he thinks that way,
too, sometimes. He still has that. Especially
now that, like, all the water's, because you
were at Shoals Fest a couple years ago. Oh, yeah.
With the re -seeing Slobberbone. See, Jason did
this to me on purpose. I know he did, because
Slobberbone, Centromantic, my two favorite bands,
truckers. Third favorite band. I say that, but
you know what I mean. They're all on the same
level, really. But Slaw Ruins, The Dramatics.
I love that. So when Jason had announced all
those guys, I was like, what are you doing to
me? What are you doing? And he's like, they're
my favorite bands too. What can I say? So yeah,
it was incredible. I love him for that. October?
I want to. You know, my stepdad, Steve Trash,
who started this whole thing, he's actually,
like, the emcee this year. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah.
Or not. I mean, I know he's doing all through
it, but yeah. It's so crazy that everything's
still in that one little space that he got pulled
back in, and he was there the first time I met
them. It's a wild ride. So, I don't know that
this story has an ending, so I don't know, like,
where it ended. I don't either. But... What I
will ask is, what do you think people need to
do, other than bands having their own website,
which I think is like, I was like, oh, yeah,
that's so important and something that I'm just
taking for granted that most of my bands have
their own website. So many don't. It's crazy.
But what do you think the future of the internet
is going to look like and what can we do to...
Stop some of this AI slop. Stop this snake eating
its own tail. Yeah. Support real journalism.
Support real news if you can. Stuff like that.
Try to go to websites instead of social media
if you need information. That kind of stuff.
I don't think there's anything we can do because
billionaires. That's all you have to say, really.
Because billionaires, we're going to get fucked
one way or another. It's so weird that this podcast
isn't about that, but it seems to come up every
episode. There's always been an underground,
right? There's always been, even when the billionaires
are in control, even when everything is locked
down, there's always an underground. And you
just stay with the underground, figure out where
it's at, chase it, promote it, help it. become
bigger and give it more access to people that's
what needs to happen because otherwise everything's
just going to be corporate run corporate news
what they want you to believe is what you're
going to see that's all you're going to see and
they're going to hide it as much as they can
so we have to find the ways to be underground
you know and that's not going to the dark web
by any means or anything like that you know but
just finding the places you trust unless you
need drugs Somebody killed. And when I say drugs,
I just mean like insulin. I don't mean... Sure.
That's right. You can just get it cheaper there.
It's much better. Getting it off Temu, the fucking
Chinese. So I have a feeling there's not a lot
of people that listen to my podcast that don't
listen to the drive -by truckers or aren't aware
of them. Yet. Which leads me to the last thing
I'd like to ask you, unless you have other things
you want to add here. What would you tell somebody
to listen to that's never listened to them? As
another super fan like me, because at the end
of the day, we're just both fans of this band.
Yeah, I know. It's true. It's absolutely true.
Absolutely true. Just geeking out about them.
And this is the hardest question for me to answer
when somebody asks. Because it's really personal
to the person. If I know the person likes heavy
metal, I'm going to direct them towards it. That's
a really good point. It's like, you know, what
are they already into? It's hard to say. Just
go out and listen to Dirty South or Decoration
Day, and that's it. That should do it for you,
but it might not. Maybe you're not that kind
of person. I don't know. Yeah. I feel like the
Dirty South really is, like, it runs the gamut
of kind of stylistically. Yeah. I mean, it's
not everything I've ever done, but, you know,
there's ballads. There's fast songs. Yeah. You
know, there's heavy rockers. That's right. But
there's a lot, I mean, a lot of the new stuff's
fantastic too. It's just, it's so hard to...
This might be one of the greatest songs ever
written. I know. What the fuck? They stun me
to this day. I hear a new song and I'm like,
how did you fucking write that? They just keep
putting out great stuff. I'm happy for them.
So yeah, I don't know what I would choose, but
yeah. That's a personal thing. If you ask me,
I'll ask you what kind of music you listen to,
and then I'll tell you, I think. I have one last
question. Okay. Tell me about your banana pudding,
because I've made it before. You gave me the
recipe like 12 years ago when I made it, and
it was amazing. Just tell people about your legendary
banana pudding. You know, it's so funny. It's
not even a recipe that was ever put together
in any kind of... I think you did. Book or anything,
yeah. But it's a very standard southern banana
pudding recipe. There's nothing special about
it. The only thing that's special about it is
the ingredients. You just have to use really
good ingredients. That was what you emphasized
to me when you gave me the recipe. Don't skimp
out. Don't skimp out. Don't walk away when you're
stirring the pudding. Don't walk away from it.
That's it. I mean, it's really simple. Use the
best ingredients you can find. And that worked
for everything. I mean, isn't that why the truckers
are great? They have the best fucking ingredients
you can find. That was the whole thing. And really,
the fact that it became famous is only because
Patterson's grandmother used to make some so
similar that he loved it. And he talks about
it all the time. I just heard about it on the
forums. Oh, really? Or like the Facebook group
or something. I was like, well, I'm fucking,
I'm going to make it. And now I've made it like
three times now. Yeah, that's awesome. He asked
me if they could put it in a book because they
had come to the truckers asking for a recipe
from, you know, something, some recipe, some
rock and roll recipe book. And I was like, sure,
why not? He goes, can I call it Sissy's Banana
Pudding? And I was like, sure, why not? You know,
that's your, it was his grandmother and he always
loved it because it just. tasting just like hers
so now it's in a cookbook it's in a cookbook
as sissy's banana pudding but he did put you
know that it was mine that was my recipe and
stuff like that so that's not like and i definitely
i loved sissy i only met her once she's pretty
taller than me which is crazy i'm gonna find
the book and i'll link it oh yeah i wish i could
remember your banana pudding it's a very simple
recipe and i'm very free with it it's i don't
think recipes should be kept It's down on the
side of the banana box. Yeah, it's basically
the same thing. It's basically the same thing.
That was my interview with Jen Bryant. She was
kind enough afterwards to take me by, drive by
Trucker's headquarters. And so I got to see where
it all happens. That was pretty, pretty goddamn
cool, I got to say. We just had the most fun.
I hope you enjoyed listening to it. You can check
out... The Drive -By Truckers on tour. They're
on tour with Deer Tick and Thelma and the Sleaze
right now on the Charm and Decadence tour. Jen's
still running drivebytruckers .com. If I had
to guess, she is the longest running webmaster
in all of music. Maybe anywhere. Especially continuously.
Running a website for 26 plus years is pretty
crazy. Next week, we've got Mike White. He's
been published internationally. He photographs
all kinds of amazing artists. And he was the
official photographer for AthFest this year.
He also did this amazing photo collage using
all sorts of photos he's taken at AthFest over
the years to recreate the AthFest 2025 logo.
We dive into all of that. Make sure you hit that
subscribe button. I really appreciate you tuning
in. Thanks to the Sloan Brothers for our theme
songs. Thanks to Lee Baines for inspiring the
title of this podcast. Check out both of their
music. There's links in the description. This
is overeducated and underemployed. Thanks for
listening.