WEBVTT

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Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed. Today

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is a really cool episode. I get to sit down with

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Jen Bryant. She's been the webmaster of the drive

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-by truckers since they had a website. She's

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the only webmaster they've ever had. She was

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also on the board of directors of AthFest. So

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we talk about AthFest, we talk about, we just

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nerd out about the drive -by truckers. She's

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the original heathen. I don't really know what

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else to say, but it was a pleasure talking to

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her. She was super kind to sit down and talk

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to me. I think it was one of the best talks I've

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had on this show yet. And I'm excited for you

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to hear it. Everybody check out the movie The

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Secret to a Happy Ending if you're interested

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in more of this story. We referenced it a couple

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of times in this interview. And Jen actually

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did appear in that film. and talks a little bit

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about some of this. But we go a lot deeper here,

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and she gives you the rest of the story. Here

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we are, Jen Bryant. Thanks for listening to Overeducated

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and Underemployed. Hit that subscribe button.

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Okay, I'm here with Jen Bryant, who I can best

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describe as a pioneer in early Internet music

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marketing. To put it broadly, and I think, to

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be honest, I only know the outline of the story,

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which is why I want to talk to her and get the

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whole thing. Hi, Jen. Hi. How are you doing?

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I'm great. I'm here in Athens for AthFest. I

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know. Have you been having fun? It's been amazing.

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It's so good. Have you seen somebody good yet?

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I have seen a lot of really great bands. I got

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to say, Bubba Sparks brought it. Really? I wanted

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to see that so bad. It was so fun. And Kimberly

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played yesterday, too. And she's always amazing.

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She's so good. That was, I think, my third time

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seeing her play. I know. She is like the best

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band in music. She really does. She picked well.

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She really did. Yeah, I wanted to go see her,

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but we had a dinner planned last night, which

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really sucked. It was brutal. It's the worst

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thing about AthFest. I was on the board of directors

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of AthFest for 10 years, and I couldn't get them

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to move it no matter what I did. So I just rolled

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off the board. There was no way. I mean, this

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is just when the town needs income. And so this

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is what they wanted to do. They wanted to bring

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people to town during the summer when it's just

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stupid hot. To be fair, I understand that reasoning.

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I was talking to my Uber driver, one of them

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the other day. He said that the students are

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staying more and more of them anyway. Maybe they'll

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switch it a little further one way or the other

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so it's less. Even a month earlier would be a

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lot. It would be a huge difference. At least

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now, until the planet continues. But I do want

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to say that they have been really kind to me.

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They have treated their media people really well.

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That's great. They continue to, I think. do a

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really great thing. And it's since you were on

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the board and I'm here for AthFest and then we'll

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dive into like what I really want to talk to

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you about. Can you just tell everybody like what

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the purpose of the fundraising for AthFest is,

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like where that money goes and kind of the philosophy

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behind it? Yeah, sure. Well, I think that was

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one of our problems was that early on the message

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that AthFest had was it wasn't clear. So what

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they were doing with the money and why none of

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that made any sense to anybody because nobody

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knew what was happening. But what is happening

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is they're making grants for small schools and

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others, just regular schools, not small, but

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to promote arts and music in those schools. So

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basically they'll give a grant to a band that,

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like a school band. middle school band to buy

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violins or they'll give a grant to an art department

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to buy supplies for such as or to take a trip

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somewhere to do something. So basically they

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teachers will apply for grants and then AthFest

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will allocate the money as they see fit. And

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the grants are very it sounds like very specific

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for like a very like specific purpose. That's

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right. They have to promote the music and arts.

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In the schools, in local schools. So AthFest

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being for Athens, we try to do, I think they

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do some in Oconee too, but yeah, it's mostly

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Athens schools. And it's done really well, and

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they've made a lot of great grants, and I think...

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Once bands understand and people understand that's

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what the money's for, I think they'd be more

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accepting and willing to play for less and stuff

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like that. I will tell you the number of young

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bands I've seen this weekend that were kick -ass

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is awesome. That's the thing. Athens has its

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share of seasoned, long -time veteran musicians,

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but you're also seeing the young kids come up.

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Keep it going. It's not quite to the volume that

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it used to be. Like when I moved here, there

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was 120 or so original bands that only played

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original music. No cover bands, which is... blew

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me away like I moved from North Alabama Muscle

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Shoals and we only had a few bands like three

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bands there that would only do original songs

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so yeah it was insane now there's less of a music

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scene I think COVID killed some of our best clubs

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and well sadly Caledonia and stuff like that

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you know it's just I think you know I was reading

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an article the other day in some ways we're still

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kind of recovering from like the just the collective,

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like, habit changes. Like, people don't go out

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after dark as much. And, you know, maybe on the

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weekends and stuff. They just don't want to.

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It's like you're used to being home now. And

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places don't stay open as late. That's right.

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I mean, you know, so it became this feedback

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loop where I think all kinds of art and culture

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has kind of struggled. Kind of got damaged by

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it. I mean, not to mention just the guys having

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to find a way to make money. Yeah. And I think

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that's why we're seeing house shows on the rise

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again, too. I see a lot of people doing house

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shows, and I've hosted a couple of them. I like

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that. I hope that the artists make enough money

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to continue doing that. I think as a full band,

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it's hard, but for solo artists... Sure, yeah.

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I mean, I had J. Roddy Walston there at my house

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a couple months ago. That was great, and I think

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he left happy. Yeah. And Lee Baines is coming

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in a couple of months. Oh, that's awesome. And

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of course, the podcast is named after one of

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his lyrics. He's the one. That's so cool. Okay,

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so it sounds like you've always been into music.

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It's been a part of you. And you grew up in Muscle

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Shoals. Yeah, I was born in Auburn, Opelika,

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actually. And so my parents were hippies, like

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the real hippies. to the hippies. My mom had

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painted this giant, the Rolling Stones lips,

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you know, on the wall of our living room. And

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it was huge. It was huge. So I had these pictures

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of me having a birthday. blowing out the cakes

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with this giant Rolling Stones lips behind us.

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My parents always listened to music, just constantly.

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There was music playing on the radio, and I always

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was into it. They said that from a very young

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age, I was... Like, my first concert in utero

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was Ike and Tina Turner. So my mom remembers.

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She was like, you were dancing inside of my...

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So I guess I just was born to it. I always loved

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music, but I couldn't... I never had the... I

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guess the concentration to sit down and learn

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to play very much. So I played bass a little

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bit. I played flute some. And I was pretty good

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at flute. And then it just, that's not a rock

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and roll instrument very often. So without Jethro

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Tull. So I just kind of dropped all that and

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started promoting bands instead. Yeah. Yeah.

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I mean, honestly, that sounds very similar to

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me as a kid. I grew up just loving music. Yeah.

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Found a couple of local bands that I really liked

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that were writing original music. They didn't

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play covers. And they ended up getting signed

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to... Oh, nice. In Tallahassee in the early 2000s,

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there was actually a pretty cool scene. Five

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bands got signed to major labels in the same

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year. And you knew some of them? I worked with

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some of them. I was thanked in the album credits.

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That's great. Yeah, yeah. But I started street

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teams for them. Yeah. I would go to the mall

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with them, and we'd pass out CD samplers and

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flyers and, you know, avoid mall security. Yeah,

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try to get away with it. And then they'd take

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me to Hooters afterwards. I just thought that

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was, you know, because I was like 13, 14. Oh,

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okay, okay. That's a little young. I was young.

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For Hooters. But that was like, that was the...

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That made it cool. That was as far as they took

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it, too. You know what I mean? They're not taking

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you to strip clubs. No, and they weren't giving

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me drugs or letting me drink or anything like

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that. It was almost like, you know, they helped

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me keep it on the rails just enough. But, I mean,

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music, rock and roll was my passion from the

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very beginning. It sounds very similar. Like,

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you decided to help. Yeah. And I joke that all

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comedians are, like, wannabe rock stars. Yeah.

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But I also think, like, all songwriters, like,

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secretly want to be comedians. That's... True.

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They really want to be taken seriously, but they

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also want to be funny because that's sexy. Yeah.

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Well, and you can see it, like, in, you know,

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both Patterson and Cooley's lyrics. Yeah. I mean,

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they're always putting little one -liners in

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there. That's true. And Cooley is a natural comedian,

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for sure. And Patterson's very funny. You have

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to, like, pay attention, but Cooley is straight

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-up hilarious in Patterson's. Yeah. Well, and

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that's kind of what I mean, is, like, even if

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they don't channel it into stand -up. Yeah. With

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air quotes. Yeah. You know, they are basically

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comedians. Cooley's stand -up would just be him

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on the stage with a guitar, like with songs in

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between his stand -up. That's pretty much what

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he does anyway. You know, I mean, there's nothing

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that really defines what stand -up is. No, that's

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true. That's true. So I'm going to ask you the

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question that I ask everybody. All right. And

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you already almost, like, spoiled it a little

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bit. But I think... The in utero helped. But

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that's actually the second question. The first

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question is, what's the first song that you remember

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loving as a child? Like, really, like, I want

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to know who this is. I want to know more about

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this. There's a difference like when I was a

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little kid when I was a little kid I loved horses

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more than anything so the song wildfire wildfire

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Do you remember that sad ass song about the pony

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that dies in the fire? That was my favorite song

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and because I was so sad about that pony I hated

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it, but I loved it at the same time. And then

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there was another song at the same time that

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also got me. It was Guitar Man because it's so

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fucking sad. Like the chord progression is so

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sad. Not the lyrics are not necessarily, but

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yeah, it was just for some reason, those were

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the first two songs that I really dug into. But

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then when I started like getting into where I

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wanted to know more about the musicians and stuff

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like that. This is so embarrassing. It was absolutely

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Journey because I saw this Separate Ways video

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and Steve Perry was like standing in the front

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singing really loud, someday love will find,

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you know, and I just fell in love with him. I

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was just like, holy shit, this guy means it.

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He means what he's saying. I really want to know,

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I want to, I hope love finds, you know, just

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answering all these questions that he was asking

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and really fell in love with that. So I bought

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a bunch of Journey records and I fell in love

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with the whole, I knew all the members' names,

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and I knew what they played, and I knew how long

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they'd been in it, knew who they were married

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to, and all these things, which things don't

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matter to the music at all. So that's the two

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different kinds of obsession that I have. I'll

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have an obsession about just music, and just

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the music itself is enough. And then I'll have

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an obsession where I want to know more about

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the artist, and that's a different kind of thing.

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It's also a music love, but it's not necessarily...

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the intensity of the other does that make sense

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absolutely yeah 100 % because sometimes I mean

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and I think part of it is sometimes the music

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is just enough yeah that's true and sometimes

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like it's more of a celebrity kind of a thing

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and less and it's not necessarily to say the

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music is like not as good but it's like maybe

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they don't put everything you want to know or

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what like Some artists put their whole soul into

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their songs. Yeah. What else am I going to learn?

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No, it's true. Well, sometimes I think it's just

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human curiosity to be curious about something

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that affects you. So if music, if a song really

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affects you and makes you pay attention to it,

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you're going to want to know everything you can

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about it. And that's kind of how I think. And

00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:03.009
there's that visual element to the music video.

00:14:03.110 --> 00:14:06.830
That's true. And I think because that's what

00:14:06.830 --> 00:14:09.960
you said you saw in the music video. Yeah, latched

00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:14.000
on to that. I think that almost elevated that

00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:15.940
obsession for a lot of people. Yeah. When it

00:14:15.940 --> 00:14:18.679
went from just having the record. For sure. To

00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:21.940
seeing the video in their living room. Yep. It

00:14:21.940 --> 00:14:24.000
was a different thing. Yeah, we lived out in

00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.779
the middle of nowhere. Like on Frog Pond, we

00:14:27.779 --> 00:14:31.559
lived at the end of a two -mile dirt road in

00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:33.620
a trailer that my mom was building a house. So

00:14:33.620 --> 00:14:36.679
there was no internet. There was no cable. There

00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:40.360
was nothing. The only way I got to see videos

00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.039
was when I went to babysit. So when I was babysitting,

00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:46.279
I would watch their TV and see MTV, and that's

00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.460
when I didn't have any other way even to listen

00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:49.679
to it. I mean, we could listen to the radio,

00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:53.179
but think about who is the DJs in North Alabama

00:14:53.179 --> 00:14:57.340
at that time. They were just playing the hits.

00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.340
You didn't find anything new by listening to

00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:01.860
the radio in North Alabama very often. I mean,

00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.120
and you still don't. Yeah, you still don't. Maybe

00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:08.779
for different reasons now. Yeah. But MTV really

00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:11.059
opened it up to a lot of people, I think. You

00:15:11.059 --> 00:15:13.899
know, videos started a huge music revolution,

00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.820
even though it was weird. And I think eventually

00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:21.980
it kind of made it so, like, looks mattered a

00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:24.080
lot more. That's true. But early on, I don't

00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:25.600
think that's true. I mean, there were a lot of

00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:28.559
ugly people in music. For sure. Yeah, so it's

00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.220
had, like, everything has bad and good. Yeah,

00:15:31.299 --> 00:15:34.299
for sure. So what's the first concert you remember

00:15:34.299 --> 00:15:37.580
going to? Because I'm guessing you don't remember

00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:42.159
that Ike and Tina. I do not. My parents, my mom

00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:44.600
would go, she worked for a band. Like she would

00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:47.740
do album cover art and t -shirt art and stuff

00:15:47.740 --> 00:15:50.919
like that for this band. And she took us to a

00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:52.899
festival that they were playing. And I remember

00:15:52.899 --> 00:15:55.940
being there and running around in front of the

00:15:55.940 --> 00:15:57.620
stage while they were playing. And then they

00:15:57.620 --> 00:16:00.480
took us onto their tour bus, which I do in quotes,

00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.240
because it was just a school bus that had been.

00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:05.500
And I got to sit next to the keyboard player

00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:08.220
and I'm like, oh, my God, he's so cool. And he

00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:10.340
was like talking to me about playing. You know,

00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:12.580
he's just like this little girl is really cute.

00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.799
And I'm just like, I want to marry you. It was

00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.200
very much that kind of just like I was stunned

00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:20.240
by the fact that I saw him on stage playing.

00:16:20.659 --> 00:16:22.860
And then I could sit next to him and talk to

00:16:22.860 --> 00:16:25.919
him. And it was I was just blown away. I was

00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.639
just blown away that he was just a normal person,

00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:29.720
you know, that I could touch. When do you think

00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:32.039
that like fully set in for you? Because I think

00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:34.720
like. I have a very similar kind of experience.

00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:37.120
Oh, yes? I mean, I can't even think of anything

00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.179
super specific. But eventually that melts away,

00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:42.779
and you are just like, these are just normal

00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:46.919
people too. Do you remember when you started

00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:50.279
to feel less starstruck when you would be around

00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:54.080
musicians? No, because I'm still that way. Are

00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.519
you still that way? Yeah. I mean, I think I hide

00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:00.190
it until they leave, and then I'm like... Yeah,

00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:02.370
I try really hard. I'm pretty good at it now,

00:17:02.509 --> 00:17:04.609
for sure. But, you know, when I met Patterson

00:17:04.609 --> 00:17:08.269
Cooley, they weren't famous at all. So I never

00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:10.990
had that with them. We always were brothers or

00:17:10.990 --> 00:17:14.390
whatever. But then they would introduce me to

00:17:14.390 --> 00:17:17.369
bands, like going to Florida with the truckers.

00:17:17.390 --> 00:17:18.990
I was riding in the van with them at one point,

00:17:19.029 --> 00:17:21.849
and Patterson said, you're going to love this.

00:17:21.990 --> 00:17:24.970
And he put on Barrel Chested by Slobberbone.

00:17:25.130 --> 00:17:29.100
And within the first song, I was like, oh. I

00:17:29.100 --> 00:17:32.059
love this. I think this is going to be my new

00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:34.380
obsession. And damn if he wasn't right. He was

00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:37.160
absolutely right. So then, like a couple of months

00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.339
later, I went to South by Southwest. It was whatever

00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:42.660
the little thing they had in Denton. It was like

00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:47.240
a Denton festival. And I saw... I remember seeing

00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.500
Brent Best walking around a record store. And

00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:53.319
I just kind of walked by him, and I wanted to

00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.160
say something to him so bad because I knew he

00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.720
knew the Truckers. But I didn't know him at all,

00:17:57.740 --> 00:17:59.660
and he didn't know me at all. And I remember

00:17:59.660 --> 00:18:01.799
him looking at me and me going, I've got to get

00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:03.660
out of here. I've got to get out of here. So

00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:06.180
I just ran away. I just ran away. And then later

00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:08.079
when I met him, he's just so nice. And, of course,

00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:10.579
all the groups that Truckers introduced me to,

00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:14.160
Centromatic, Slobberbone, and just Supergroup,

00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.279
all those guys were fantastic. Super nice people.

00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:21.700
I'm just lucky that they've introduced me to

00:18:21.700 --> 00:18:24.839
their music. Slobberbone is not true. My buddy

00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:26.960
Craig turned me on to Slobberbone when I was

00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.339
18. Shout out to Craig. We still hang out. That's

00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:34.779
killer. I can't imagine finding them at 18. That

00:18:34.779 --> 00:18:35.900
would have changed my entire life. I found the

00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:38.400
truckers at 18, and it changed my entire life.

00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.240
I mean, it did. I was working at a record store.

00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.039
I've actually said this on the podcast before,

00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:51.079
but he's very similar to Patterson finding Led

00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:53.740
Zeppelin. I just saw the artwork, and it looked

00:18:53.740 --> 00:18:55.980
cool, and I took it home. He's the fucking trucker.

00:18:56.019 --> 00:18:58.380
That's amazing. So many people have found him

00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:01.140
that way. That's so cool, though. That's because

00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:05.940
West Freed is a badass. I mean, he's the fucking

00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:13.940
man. I need to get one. I think... The care that

00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.660
they have always put into the whole package is

00:19:16.660 --> 00:19:20.519
part of what attracts people that care about

00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.539
that stuff a lot. And that's why they end up

00:19:23.539 --> 00:19:27.660
with such an art -loving fan base. I agree. You

00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:29.359
know what I mean? Patterson always wanted...

00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:31.960
He was resentful that he couldn't put out whole

00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:34.259
vinyl albums with the covers and the books and

00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:36.500
all that stuff. He really liked that. At the

00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:38.500
beginning, the fact that we couldn't put that

00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:41.309
out with Southern Rock Opera when he... decided

00:19:41.309 --> 00:19:44.049
to crowdsource it, one of the first crowdsourced

00:19:44.049 --> 00:19:47.430
things ever. He really wanted to do a vinyl,

00:19:47.549 --> 00:19:50.069
I believe, and we just couldn't pull it off.

00:19:51.369 --> 00:19:54.289
I was really lucky. I got into them right when

00:19:54.289 --> 00:19:57.069
the Dirty South came out. Oh, nice. And I got

00:19:57.069 --> 00:19:59.410
a promo copy a few weeks before. Oh, wow. Because

00:19:59.410 --> 00:20:01.849
you worked at a record company? A record store?

00:20:01.950 --> 00:20:03.250
I worked at a record store, and it was going

00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:05.230
to be on a listening post, so they sent us way

00:20:05.230 --> 00:20:09.660
more copies than we needed. Wow. And then the

00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:12.960
next day, literally the next day, I bought Decoration

00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.539
Day and Southern Opera. But then, like, a month

00:20:16.539 --> 00:20:18.759
later, two months later, they reissued Gangsta

00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:21.519
Billy and Pizza Deliverance. And they put all

00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.619
of it on vinyl at that point. So, like, I just,

00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.819
I got into them at the point where you could

00:20:27.819 --> 00:20:30.640
get all of that stuff, like, on the best format.

00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.599
That's awesome. I was just really, you know,

00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.660
kind of lucky there. I mean, also just the right

00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:38.480
place at the right time. I mean, really, I don't

00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:39.900
know how I would have gotten into it. I wouldn't

00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:42.000
even into southern music or anything. That's

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.339
so cool. I mean, really, it is just the fact

00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:46.259
that the album cover caught your eye, and here

00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:52.759
we are. Yeah, yeah. That's so cool. The world's

00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.359
a magical place. It really is. It's so interesting.

00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.650
Same for me. My mom was, I'll tell you how I

00:21:00.650 --> 00:21:03.009
met the truckers. I don't know if that's interesting

00:21:03.009 --> 00:21:06.349
or not. Am I jumping it too fast? No, you're

00:21:06.349 --> 00:21:09.150
good. I've got ADHD, and so you have to listen.

00:21:09.230 --> 00:21:12.190
I do. It's so hard to go. It's so hard to grow

00:21:12.190 --> 00:21:17.589
in a straight line, isn't it? My mom was dating

00:21:17.589 --> 00:21:20.789
this magician, Steve Trash. Steve Richardson.

00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:24.970
He was doing a show at Earth Day, and my best

00:21:24.970 --> 00:21:28.029
friend, Chris Quillen, Monster, who I'd known

00:21:28.029 --> 00:21:30.369
because I was a fan of his band, Stain Mecca,

00:21:30.529 --> 00:21:34.150
he was playing, they were playing at this Earth

00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:36.470
Day thing, too. So I had planned to go, but I

00:21:36.470 --> 00:21:38.390
kind of, my mom talked me into really going.

00:21:38.470 --> 00:21:39.950
I kind of was going to blow it off, but she was

00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:42.029
like, come on, you know, you'll get to meet Steve,

00:21:42.029 --> 00:21:44.470
and he's awesome. You'll see him do magic and

00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:47.329
stuff. And then Stain Mecca played. Steve did

00:21:47.329 --> 00:21:49.529
his thing, and Stain Mecca played, and then...

00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.019
adams house cat came on and they were so crazy

00:21:53.019 --> 00:21:57.759
loud like i had seen them before one time at

00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:01.119
brass lantern and they were not my style like

00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.019
i was just like not into paterson's voice i wasn't

00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:06.319
into any of it and i was in a bad mood and i

00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:08.000
was drunk and all this stuff so i didn't like

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.079
them first i really didn't but when i saw them

00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:12.640
at earth day they were really good you know and

00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.920
they were really belligerent and i like that

00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:22.279
a lot so then And Patterson, I think I kind of

00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.339
talked to him a little bit. I was standing with

00:22:25.339 --> 00:22:27.619
Chris, and we were all talking about what we

00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:28.660
were going to do, and they were talking about

00:22:28.660 --> 00:22:31.240
going to a party in Tuscumbia. And so we all

00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.359
ended up going to that same party together, and

00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.539
that's where I got to hang out with Patterson

00:22:35.539 --> 00:22:37.759
Cooley and got to know them. John Cahoon was

00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.380
there. I don't think Chuck came to that. I'm

00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:43.619
almost sure he didn't. He didn't stay long. But

00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:48.099
then the next thing that happened. after that

00:22:48.099 --> 00:22:52.619
night was that they chris wanted a ride to muscle

00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:55.740
sound and muscle sound was where they were recording

00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:58.400
town burn down and so that's what they wanted

00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.500
him for was for a backing vocal to do on that

00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:03.799
so i got to hang out with them in the studio

00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:06.279
there and that was the first time i'd ever been

00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:09.019
into a real live studio you know and it was muscle

00:23:09.019 --> 00:23:11.480
sound which was really cool at the time yeah

00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:15.289
and um They were super nice, and I remember thinking

00:23:15.289 --> 00:23:17.250
that the PGA was something they were drinking,

00:23:17.349 --> 00:23:18.730
that they were, like, drinking it, and Patterson

00:23:18.730 --> 00:23:20.609
was like, no, we cleaned the tapes with this.

00:23:20.630 --> 00:23:22.990
You know, this isn't teaching me about what they

00:23:22.990 --> 00:23:24.710
actually do with this. I was like, oh, I thought

00:23:24.710 --> 00:23:26.730
y 'all were going to be tore up in here, and

00:23:26.730 --> 00:23:29.250
they were drunk, but it wasn't like that. It

00:23:29.250 --> 00:23:31.210
wasn't like they were drinking that. Yeah, that

00:23:31.210 --> 00:23:32.910
was the first time. That was how I met them,

00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:34.690
and then it just kind of went on from there.

00:23:35.130 --> 00:23:36.890
Were you already, like, working with bands and,

00:23:36.950 --> 00:23:39.029
like, promoting bands? I was doing, like, just

00:23:39.029 --> 00:23:41.730
flyers and stuff for Stain Mecca and other bands

00:23:41.730 --> 00:23:45.980
around. what I could. But back then, there was

00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:50.400
no internet. I was in college. How did you go

00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:55.119
from not having TV at home to being a web developer?

00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.619
Actually, well, I did a lot of stuff for Adams

00:23:59.619 --> 00:24:03.019
Housecat until they broke up. And then Patterson

00:24:03.019 --> 00:24:07.119
moved to Athens. So I had moved to Florence and

00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:13.099
was going to UGA, UNA, sorry, UNA, and had the

00:24:13.099 --> 00:24:15.720
internet and stuff like nerd or not the internet

00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.480
but um cable tv and stuff like that so i could

00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:22.299
see videos and stuff but then he moved so you

00:24:22.299 --> 00:24:24.579
moved here to come to college well no i didn't

00:24:24.579 --> 00:24:26.599
i'd already gone to college at una i already

00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:28.720
graduated i went ahead and graduated from una

00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.940
then adam's house cat went around then uh patterson

00:24:31.940 --> 00:24:33.519
they broke up and patterson cooley went around

00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:38.279
as uh virgil cain right and My brother played

00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:40.480
in a band with them, Horse Pussy. He was the

00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:44.660
drummer for Horse Pussy. So we stayed interlocked.

00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:49.240
But when Patterson moved to Athens and started

00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.099
Truckers, he kept saying, you know, come, bring

00:24:52.099 --> 00:24:55.299
Chris, let's just come. So he moved here first?

00:24:55.539 --> 00:24:58.740
Yeah, he moved here. He moved here. He wanted

00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:01.400
Krillin, he wanted Monster to come move and play

00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:04.619
with them too. And Chris was never going to leave

00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:10.329
Florence. He's just... marry me is Chris he was

00:25:10.329 --> 00:25:12.130
happy where he was you know two or eight lanes

00:25:12.130 --> 00:25:15.089
it don't matter it's just a little town he's

00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:18.470
but he was playing with fiddle worms at the time

00:25:18.470 --> 00:25:23.589
and so anyway Chris died he got killed in a car

00:25:23.589 --> 00:25:27.170
accident and when that happened everything stopped

00:25:27.170 --> 00:25:31.339
everything went away for a little while and all

00:25:31.339 --> 00:25:34.380
of my friends came over to my house all of everybody

00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:37.559
was there what happened why is this we couldn't

00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:39.460
believe because he was the most of all the people

00:25:39.460 --> 00:25:41.759
full of life he was the most full of life of

00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.140
anybody I ever met he just he reeked of being

00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:48.799
alive he wanted to have fun and enjoy life and

00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.480
he was the least reliable way less than rob malone

00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.279
he was so unreliable you couldn't count on him

00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:58.059
you had to go pick him up he never had a car

00:25:58.059 --> 00:26:00.299
you know he was just that guy he was just there

00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:04.500
to have a good time and when he died it affected

00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:07.039
everybody i mean the funeral was one of the biggest

00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:10.440
funerals florence had ever seen it's the trail

00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.660
of cars going to the cemetery i just remember

00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:16.259
it took so long to get there because everybody

00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:22.380
loved him everybody and patterson and i And Cooley,

00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:25.380
I believe, all had dreams about him the same

00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:28.140
night. Anyway, that gets into a lot of stuff.

00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:32.380
But yeah, there was... Yeah, yeah, that's right.

00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.240
Yeah, that's right. My dream was simple. It was

00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.039
just Chris came and sat on my lap, which he did

00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:41.000
a lot, because he's like five, six or something,

00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:43.500
and I'm six foot. And so he would come sit on

00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:46.440
my lap and just tell me, he just came sat on

00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.359
my lap and said, it's okay, everything's going

00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.200
to be okay. everything's going to be okay. Just

00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:54.279
follow the path. Just follow the path. And then

00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:56.400
he just like... The path is what Patterson said.

00:26:56.740 --> 00:26:58.839
Yeah, he never showed me a path or anything in

00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:01.940
my dream. He just sat on my lap and told me it

00:27:01.940 --> 00:27:03.339
was okay. Because I was crying and told me it

00:27:03.339 --> 00:27:05.319
was okay. It was going to be okay. So that was

00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:06.779
the same night that Patterson had his dream.

00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:09.900
And I don't know. I kind of remember Cooley having

00:27:09.900 --> 00:27:11.319
a dream, but I haven't really talked to him about

00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:14.400
that. Yeah, and that's fine. I mean, I think

00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:18.259
he was right. Everything seems to be going all

00:27:18.259 --> 00:27:22.059
right. It really did pretty well. I don't know

00:27:22.059 --> 00:27:24.619
how much I believe in all that stuff or what,

00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:26.900
if it was our own minds doing it to us or what.

00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:29.220
It doesn't really matter, but I can still hear

00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:31.720
Chris's voice. When I go to see bands, he still

00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:33.779
stands next to me. In fact, the night that he

00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:35.839
died, I was seeing the Posies in Nashville. I

00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.599
had no idea that I could even make it through

00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:40.779
that concert because he and I loved the Posies

00:27:40.779 --> 00:27:43.099
together. He was my best friend, you know, and

00:27:43.099 --> 00:27:46.369
so I just... My boyfriend was with me at the

00:27:46.369 --> 00:27:47.789
time and we were with a couple of other friends

00:27:47.789 --> 00:27:49.829
and they just said, just go because that's what

00:27:49.829 --> 00:27:52.089
he would do. He would want you to go. And through

00:27:52.089 --> 00:27:54.009
the whole concert, he was with me. I mean, I

00:27:54.009 --> 00:27:55.569
just knew he was with me the whole time. I could

00:27:55.569 --> 00:28:00.130
feel him. And so I think he's guided us. If that's

00:28:00.130 --> 00:28:03.349
a possibility, he's the one doing it. I don't

00:28:03.349 --> 00:28:06.849
know what I believe, but I do know when my grandfather

00:28:06.849 --> 00:28:10.549
died, I woke up that morning and my mom knocked

00:28:10.549 --> 00:28:14.349
on my bedroom door. I was like probably 15. And

00:28:14.349 --> 00:28:17.470
she goes, I need to tell you something. And I

00:28:17.470 --> 00:28:21.549
said, I already know grandpa's dead. Oh, that's

00:28:21.549 --> 00:28:25.109
so messed up. Yeah, that's crazy. And how that,

00:28:25.210 --> 00:28:28.150
just some people have a connection. Yeah. I can

00:28:28.150 --> 00:28:31.089
see you like tearing up right now. It's scary,

00:28:31.089 --> 00:28:35.809
but I mean, I had no idea. I didn't know anything.

00:28:35.910 --> 00:28:38.450
I was asleep in Nashville and my mom called me

00:28:38.450 --> 00:28:40.240
and I was talking to her on the back porch. I

00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:41.759
was just happy and excited about going to see

00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.099
the show. And she goes, I have something really

00:28:43.099 --> 00:28:45.140
bad to tell you. And I just remember my knees

00:28:45.140 --> 00:28:48.180
hitting the deck really hard. Like, cause I just,

00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:52.059
I didn't know. I didn't, I'd shut down. I just

00:28:52.059 --> 00:28:54.079
shut down. And that's how it happens sometimes.

00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:59.460
But after that, Patterson was like here in Athens.

00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.200
I had to get out of there. Two weeks after Chris

00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:05.319
was killed, I had a bad car accident, which broke

00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:08.460
my femur into several pieces and broke my wrist.

00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:12.660
Fucked up my forehead and had a head injury from

00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:14.599
that. Had a head injury from the year before

00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.279
with another car accident. So that's why my memory

00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:21.299
is really bad. It does. It really does. I mean,

00:29:21.380 --> 00:29:25.299
you're recalling all this great. So you moved

00:29:25.299 --> 00:29:27.500
like almost immediately? As soon as I could walk

00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:29.880
again. As soon as I could walk again. And I was

00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.279
on crutches because my leg actually had a rod

00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.480
in it that was too long. The doctor that did

00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:36.720
the surgery was also the doctor that did the

00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:38.559
surgery on Patterson's stepmother when she broke

00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.119
her femur. And that was a fucking nightmare.

00:29:41.740 --> 00:29:44.559
But he had put a rod in my leg that was too long.

00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:47.119
Nails in my knee, nails in my hip. And I walked

00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:49.160
around on it broken when I moved to Athens for

00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:51.480
a year. I had no idea. I just thought it was

00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:53.859
going to hurt like that forever. So I had gotten

00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:56.359
like tattoos and brands and all this stuff trying

00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:59.220
to like understand the pain or deal with the

00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:01.099
pain because I thought it was just like that.

00:30:01.339 --> 00:30:03.039
And then I finally went to a doctor here and

00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.480
he was like, oh, your leg's still broken. Let's

00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:08.160
take that out and put in another rod. And it

00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:10.920
healed within a couple of months. So it was incredible

00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.160
the amount of pain that I was in. I had no idea

00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:15.529
that I wasn't supposed to be in it. But once

00:30:15.529 --> 00:30:17.490
I moved here, Patterson was already starting

00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:20.710
to get truckers going. And he was, you know,

00:30:20.730 --> 00:30:23.849
they were kind of that rockabilly, what is it?

00:30:24.529 --> 00:30:27.789
It wasn't rockabilly. What was the, I can't remember

00:30:27.789 --> 00:30:30.769
the term for it that they used. It was like,

00:30:30.930 --> 00:30:34.089
you know, they were all playing the star bar

00:30:34.089 --> 00:30:38.089
and it was truckadelic and the truckers. Psycho

00:30:38.089 --> 00:30:41.529
Billy kind of stuff. But truckers didn't really

00:30:41.529 --> 00:30:44.230
fit into any of those genres. Their songwriting

00:30:44.230 --> 00:30:49.529
was too good. The lyrics were too real, you know.

00:30:49.609 --> 00:30:52.470
So it wasn't just this party fun time music like

00:30:52.470 --> 00:30:54.910
everybody else was doing. It was real music.

00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:57.569
They dress it up like that sometimes. Yeah, they

00:30:57.569 --> 00:30:59.670
do. And that's what a lot of people still love.

00:30:59.750 --> 00:31:01.910
You can see people come to concerts and they're

00:31:01.910 --> 00:31:04.230
just there for the let there be rock or whatever,

00:31:04.329 --> 00:31:06.759
you know. They don't. even listen to the lyrics

00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:08.660
they obviously if they're having a trump hat

00:31:08.660 --> 00:31:11.059
on they are not listening to the lyrics right

00:31:11.059 --> 00:31:15.940
yeah i mean it still amazes me that people don't

00:31:15.940 --> 00:31:18.519
that they don't get it yeah but it's because

00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:20.740
of those anthem songs i think they hear those

00:31:20.740 --> 00:31:22.980
and they're just like yeah southern yeah you

00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:27.359
know yeah well i mean you know A certain level

00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:30.119
of ignorance is required to wear a Trump hat

00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.039
in the first place. That's true. That's true.

00:31:33.579 --> 00:31:36.839
I guess it makes sense. At least they're consistently

00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:39.220
ignorant. That's right. That's right. Across

00:31:39.220 --> 00:31:43.240
all platforms. Dumb. So what did you study at

00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:47.059
UNA? When I was at UNA, I was a commercial music

00:31:47.059 --> 00:31:51.240
major. Okay. So you knew you wanted to... I did.

00:31:51.339 --> 00:31:53.319
I already knew. I mean, I was in classes with

00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:57.250
Chris. So we had like... orchestration class

00:31:57.250 --> 00:31:59.329
together. You know, we had interesting, weird

00:31:59.329 --> 00:32:02.349
classes together and we would, but I think my

00:32:02.349 --> 00:32:05.470
internship was with Johnny Sandlin at Duct Tape

00:32:05.470 --> 00:32:07.569
Studios and he did Brothers and Sisters. You

00:32:07.569 --> 00:32:09.910
know, Johnny Sandlin. Yeah, I mean, I talked

00:32:09.910 --> 00:32:14.630
to Baylor. Oh, really? I did. So I helped him

00:32:14.630 --> 00:32:16.450
and my mom, actually the print company that she

00:32:16.450 --> 00:32:18.529
worked for printed the Good Luck Charm album

00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:21.029
cover and the posters and Jerry Joseph with the

00:32:21.029 --> 00:32:24.170
angel baby, those posters and that cover. They

00:32:24.170 --> 00:32:26.569
printed all that stuff. So because of my connection

00:32:26.569 --> 00:32:29.529
there, I had gotten that hooked up, which was

00:32:29.529 --> 00:32:31.410
really cool to have that as part of my family

00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:35.250
too. My mom got involved. But yeah, that internship

00:32:35.250 --> 00:32:37.930
didn't last super long. I was working for Backdoor,

00:32:38.009 --> 00:32:40.609
which was owned by John Bell and Johnny Sandlin.

00:32:40.710 --> 00:32:44.319
And then they decided to hire. another person

00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:48.759
who ended up being another part of the trucker

00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:52.039
story that we don't really talk about but yeah

00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:55.339
i quit that and left and moved back to alabama

00:32:55.339 --> 00:32:57.480
and that's when chris died and then i had my

00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.539
wreck and then after i wrecked i moved to athens

00:33:00.539 --> 00:33:02.839
because patterson was already here let's go back

00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:06.740
to una first what was the extent of their like

00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:10.119
integration of technology into their curriculum

00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:14.539
at in the commercial music program? At the time,

00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.680
it was pretty good. I mean, like, we had studio

00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:19.339
classes. We could record out. We recorded songs

00:33:19.339 --> 00:33:23.440
and stuff like that. It was further, the commercial

00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:26.279
music program itself was new, and nobody had

00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:28.880
really done that. So they had all new equipment.

00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:31.559
Yeah, they had a studio and all that stuff. Were

00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.500
they talking about the Internet being a tool?

00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:36.900
Not at all. Not at all. Nobody had, at that point,

00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:40.299
I mean, this was... Right at the beginning of

00:33:40.299 --> 00:33:42.900
the internet, yeah. So it had been out. There

00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:45.480
was BBU. Yeah, you could get it. There was bulletin

00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.599
boards. That's what we were on mostly. It was

00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:49.579
bulletin boards and stuff like that. And IRC

00:33:49.579 --> 00:33:52.740
chat. Right. And stuff like that. So that was

00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:55.720
about that time. And then when I moved to Athens,

00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:58.339
that's... When did you get internet? I got...

00:33:58.339 --> 00:34:01.170
Well, I didn't until I moved to Athens. But that

00:34:01.170 --> 00:34:03.029
was the same, you got dial -up when you moved

00:34:03.029 --> 00:34:06.369
to Athens? I had dial -up in Muscle Shoals for

00:34:06.369 --> 00:34:09.110
a little while, but I really only did bulletin

00:34:09.110 --> 00:34:12.230
boards, and I didn't have the internet. Were

00:34:12.230 --> 00:34:14.449
you using that at all to promote bands, though?

00:34:14.550 --> 00:34:16.369
Like, locally, were you using the bulletin boards?

00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:21.639
Some, but really, it was not... At that time,

00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:24.019
it wasn't separated out that well, so you would

00:34:24.019 --> 00:34:25.800
just know somebody who had a bulletin board,

00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:27.340
and you would go over to their bulletin board

00:34:27.340 --> 00:34:28.820
and hang out with them and talk to them about

00:34:28.820 --> 00:34:32.019
that stuff. Gotcha. There wasn't a place where

00:34:32.019 --> 00:34:35.639
you could go search, that I knew of, where you

00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:40.039
could go search for certain music forums or something

00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:41.780
like that. Did your bulletin board have a reputation?

00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:44.679
No, it was really small. It was really small.

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.980
I'm just trying to help you understand why I'm

00:34:47.980 --> 00:34:50.019
asking this stuff. I'm trying to understand,

00:34:50.380 --> 00:34:54.139
because I think, I mean, you're literally at

00:34:54.139 --> 00:34:55.920
the beginning of this stuff, you know, the internet

00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:59.159
being available to a lot of people in mass, to

00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:03.880
where even if you had the internet, if only five

00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.559
other people did, then using it to promote a

00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:08.599
band is not really going to help. Yeah, there

00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:10.639
wasn't a lot. There wasn't a lot. When I moved

00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.300
here, I got a job at a print shop. And then they,

00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:19.170
I did a print, like a bullet, like a... not a

00:35:19.170 --> 00:35:23.349
brochure for this company called Infront. And

00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:25.590
they were a banking, internet banking company.

00:35:25.769 --> 00:35:29.829
So that was the first real online thing that

00:35:29.829 --> 00:35:31.949
I had done anything for. But this was a print

00:35:31.949 --> 00:35:34.090
thing and they loved my design. So they hired

00:35:34.090 --> 00:35:37.570
me and taught me to make websites. That was the

00:35:37.570 --> 00:35:39.969
very beginning. So it started with like graphic

00:35:39.969 --> 00:35:43.289
design. Yep. And then this company kind of fostered

00:35:43.289 --> 00:35:45.630
your talent. That's right. That's right. They

00:35:45.630 --> 00:35:50.250
eventually got bought by Intuit. And then I left

00:35:50.250 --> 00:35:53.570
14 years later, I think it was. But, yeah, during

00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:56.090
that time, during that first little bit of time.

00:35:56.090 --> 00:35:57.510
We have another connection, actually, because

00:35:57.510 --> 00:35:59.750
of my friend Matt Luffman. Oh, I know Matt. Yeah,

00:35:59.809 --> 00:36:01.329
that's when we worked together, yeah. I've stayed

00:36:01.329 --> 00:36:05.110
with him for Homecoming almost every year. So

00:36:05.110 --> 00:36:06.809
shout out to Matt Luffman. Yeah, he's a good

00:36:06.809 --> 00:36:08.809
guy. Yeah, yeah. I was hanging out with him at

00:36:08.809 --> 00:36:14.349
Bad Ends last night. That's so cool. Yeah. The

00:36:14.349 --> 00:36:18.929
world is a small place. Yeah, it really is. So

00:36:18.929 --> 00:36:22.889
when did you take the skills this print company

00:36:22.889 --> 00:36:26.610
was giving? It was actually by then it was Infront.

00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:29.449
So Infront had stolen me from the print company.

00:36:29.590 --> 00:36:32.030
Okay, gotcha. So Infront steals you from the

00:36:32.030 --> 00:36:34.090
print company. They started training me to do

00:36:34.090 --> 00:36:37.070
websites, and then immediately the first thing

00:36:37.070 --> 00:36:39.329
I did was make a trucker's website. I mean, it

00:36:39.329 --> 00:36:41.269
was literally the first website I ever made on

00:36:41.269 --> 00:36:44.449
my own that wasn't related to work. And the work

00:36:44.449 --> 00:36:46.630
ones, I'd only made a couple. So that was like

00:36:46.630 --> 00:36:49.150
the third one with the trucker on the front when

00:36:49.150 --> 00:36:51.570
he's smoking and, you know, the original art

00:36:51.570 --> 00:36:54.010
that Chip Stacey did. And then I made, right

00:36:54.010 --> 00:36:56.469
after that, I made Hayride and I made Supergroup.

00:36:56.630 --> 00:36:59.210
All those websites, those three websites were

00:36:59.210 --> 00:37:01.150
the first three that I ever made that were banned.

00:37:01.329 --> 00:37:03.730
And I just did it because I loved them and I

00:37:03.730 --> 00:37:05.349
wanted them to have some kind of presence out

00:37:05.349 --> 00:37:06.969
there. And you were the only person that even

00:37:06.969 --> 00:37:09.409
knew these websites existed. That's right. Nobody

00:37:09.409 --> 00:37:13.349
even knew. By this point, there was Yahoo groups,

00:37:13.489 --> 00:37:15.989
right? So there was an internet happening and

00:37:15.989 --> 00:37:18.869
things were moving around. I just wasn't so into

00:37:18.869 --> 00:37:22.909
it. Did you get domain names? Yeah, I went and

00:37:22.909 --> 00:37:26.090
got drivebytruckers .com and we got supergroup

00:37:26.090 --> 00:37:29.079
.com and hayride .com, you know, yeah. It was

00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:31.280
pretty, nobody was after that stuff. These websites,

00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.940
folks. These are old school HTML. That's right.

00:37:36.019 --> 00:37:38.320
That's right. We made it straight up HTML, CSS.

00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:41.519
I didn't think we had CSS. I doubt it. I don't

00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:43.159
even think we had CSS back then in my memory.

00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:46.400
Yeah. I don't think it existed until like 97.

00:37:47.300 --> 00:37:49.920
Right. I think you're right. I have such a bad

00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.460
memory for all that. But yeah, that website was

00:37:52.460 --> 00:37:54.300
really bad. And you can still see it on the Wayback

00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:58.769
Machine. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'll link it in the

00:37:58.769 --> 00:38:02.769
description. Oh, you should. It's so bad. We

00:38:02.769 --> 00:38:05.670
had such dumb things like breaker one nine little

00:38:05.670 --> 00:38:09.969
button on the front for the news. It was just

00:38:09.969 --> 00:38:14.369
cheesy. And it was so Patterson had a Patterson

00:38:14.369 --> 00:38:16.690
Cooley hated the internet. They were just absolutely

00:38:16.690 --> 00:38:21.829
against it. Cooley still hates it. Doesn't like

00:38:21.829 --> 00:38:25.010
it at all. And I understand that. It's gotten

00:38:25.010 --> 00:38:27.730
a lot worse. It used to be like this magical

00:38:27.730 --> 00:38:29.510
place. It's almost like he could see what was

00:38:29.510 --> 00:38:32.989
coming. He's like, this is going to end bad.

00:38:33.210 --> 00:38:35.210
This is going to end bad. I think people like

00:38:35.210 --> 00:38:38.429
me and you who were there dealing with the internet

00:38:38.429 --> 00:38:42.389
in the mid, late 90s, when it was still kind

00:38:42.389 --> 00:38:47.429
of this insiders club, a little bit of nerds.

00:38:48.429 --> 00:38:51.130
We thought it was awesome. It was awesome back

00:38:51.130 --> 00:38:55.969
then. There's so much potential. And you know

00:38:55.969 --> 00:38:59.690
what? What ruined it is the same thing that ruins

00:38:59.690 --> 00:39:02.849
everything. Money. Greed. Billionaires. Yep.

00:39:02.929 --> 00:39:06.469
Yeah. It's true. Greed gets involved and it's

00:39:06.469 --> 00:39:10.690
just... Every time. Yeah. Every time. It could

00:39:10.690 --> 00:39:13.610
have been the best way to spread information

00:39:13.610 --> 00:39:16.210
and knowledge. But it was for a short amount

00:39:16.210 --> 00:39:18.070
of time. It was for a short amount of time, yeah.

00:39:18.309 --> 00:39:23.489
Yeah. It truly was. I remember in 2005, just

00:39:23.489 --> 00:39:25.769
thinking how amazing it was that everybody had

00:39:25.769 --> 00:39:28.590
an encyclopedia in their pocket. Could just pull

00:39:28.590 --> 00:39:30.429
it out and find out anything. And now they've

00:39:30.429 --> 00:39:33.989
created a new form of illiteracy. That's right.

00:39:34.070 --> 00:39:37.750
You can't even pay attention. Yeah. You might

00:39:37.750 --> 00:39:40.710
have the ability to read, but... Yeah. Do you

00:39:40.710 --> 00:39:44.030
really? Yeah. Exactly. It's funny. It really

00:39:44.030 --> 00:39:48.550
has made us less than more. At what point did

00:39:48.550 --> 00:39:52.030
you think that this could be a useful tool and

00:39:52.030 --> 00:39:54.650
not just like, oh, this is fun. I like making

00:39:54.650 --> 00:39:57.130
websites. Well, so we had the Yahoo group that

00:39:57.130 --> 00:40:00.650
Brandon Haney started. And Brandon Haney had

00:40:00.650 --> 00:40:03.650
started the Truckers Yahoo group. And then I

00:40:03.650 --> 00:40:06.690
got made an admin of it when I made the website

00:40:06.690 --> 00:40:09.429
and all this stuff. And he and I, he mostly.

00:40:09.929 --> 00:40:11.789
handled all that but i would go on there and

00:40:11.789 --> 00:40:13.809
promote and what i wanted to do was to get people

00:40:13.809 --> 00:40:15.750
to go see him live that was my thing because

00:40:15.750 --> 00:40:18.050
i knew live they could fucking wipe the floor

00:40:18.050 --> 00:40:20.590
with anybody i know and so i was just like a

00:40:20.590 --> 00:40:22.730
rite of passage for my close friends they have

00:40:22.730 --> 00:40:24.969
you have to see him live because otherwise it's

00:40:24.969 --> 00:40:26.590
like we don't even speak the same language it's

00:40:26.590 --> 00:40:28.849
true that's true that's a very good way to put

00:40:28.849 --> 00:40:32.449
it but yeah i had my goal was to get them more

00:40:32.449 --> 00:40:34.889
people in the crowds they were touring 300 days

00:40:34.889 --> 00:40:38.090
a year i mean they were on the road all the time

00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:42.119
So I just wanted them to make money and be able

00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:44.019
to put out albums because that's what they needed

00:40:44.019 --> 00:40:47.820
to do. That was the thing. So me and Brandon

00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:51.800
would promote there. I would hop from Yahoo groups

00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:53.940
to Yahoo groups and try to find other Yahoo groups

00:40:53.940 --> 00:40:55.739
and try to find other places on the Internet

00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:59.599
where I could talk about them in a way that didn't

00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:03.360
seem like I worked for them. And pretend like,

00:41:03.440 --> 00:41:05.380
oh, these guys are so great. And it actually

00:41:05.380 --> 00:41:08.519
worked. What was your official title with them

00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:10.179
at that time? I don't think I had an official

00:41:10.179 --> 00:41:14.820
title. I was just a webmaster. And so because

00:41:14.820 --> 00:41:17.780
of that, I also answered all the emails that

00:41:17.780 --> 00:41:21.179
came in. Yeah, so I was forever the person who

00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:23.480
responded to any emails that came to the trucker's

00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.659
site or trucker's questions or anything like

00:41:25.659 --> 00:41:28.619
that. And I could get in trouble sometimes. Patterson

00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:31.460
would be like, why did you say that? But for

00:41:31.460 --> 00:41:33.599
the most part, I knew what he wanted. So I just

00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.980
keep it within the lines of what he wanted it

00:41:36.980 --> 00:41:39.260
to be. But that's, I think, why he did that.

00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:40.920
Well, not only that, but he lived with me for

00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:44.829
a little while after his first. divorce timeline

00:41:44.829 --> 00:41:47.849
is sketchy but yeah he lived with me for a little

00:41:47.849 --> 00:41:51.630
while and um that's when he wrote the or i think

00:41:51.630 --> 00:41:53.889
that's what the check my mail gen thing is about

00:41:53.889 --> 00:41:56.789
is about that because he was always gone he was

00:41:56.789 --> 00:41:58.769
there but he was living with me but he was always

00:41:58.769 --> 00:42:01.789
gone Gotcha. Yeah. It was like his stuff was

00:42:01.789 --> 00:42:04.409
there. His stuff was there. Yeah, his stuff was

00:42:04.409 --> 00:42:05.809
there. I still have a bunch of the stuff that

00:42:05.809 --> 00:42:08.889
he left at my house. One day you auction it off.

00:42:08.989 --> 00:42:11.570
No. That happens to him all the time though.

00:42:11.610 --> 00:42:13.030
He'll leave stuff at people's houses and then

00:42:13.030 --> 00:42:15.969
we'll see it on fucking eBay. That's great. Man,

00:42:16.010 --> 00:42:18.110
Roddy, I thought Roddy left a pair of sunglasses

00:42:18.110 --> 00:42:21.429
at my house and I messaged him and he was like,

00:42:21.469 --> 00:42:26.389
I was like, can I? Tell people they were. These

00:42:26.389 --> 00:42:30.630
are yours. It was somebody that came. He picked

00:42:30.630 --> 00:42:34.929
them up a couple days later. That's funny. I'm,

00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:39.070
like, always, like, taking it to the... I'm just

00:42:39.070 --> 00:42:41.949
joking about it. Yeah, for sure. Let me just

00:42:41.949 --> 00:42:44.190
take this as far as I can. Why not? I don't even

00:42:44.190 --> 00:42:46.489
want to... I don't even care if they were actually

00:42:46.489 --> 00:42:48.809
yours, but they appeared in my house after you

00:42:48.809 --> 00:42:54.780
played here. Same time. Now they are. So when

00:42:54.780 --> 00:42:58.019
did it start to, like, when did you feel like

00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:01.099
it was working? And, like, when did you start

00:43:01.099 --> 00:43:03.579
to feel like, oh, people are coming to the shows

00:43:03.579 --> 00:43:06.079
because of the stuff I'm doing on the Yahoo groups

00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:09.360
and the website? Did you even have a way to tell?

00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:13.019
There was no way to tell back then how it was

00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:16.550
going. Attendance started picking up at shows,

00:43:16.690 --> 00:43:18.730
and they were able to make enough money. When

00:43:18.730 --> 00:43:20.510
he said he wanted to do Southern Rock Opera,

00:43:20.630 --> 00:43:23.730
and he wanted to get people to invest in this,

00:43:23.889 --> 00:43:26.929
there was no crowdsourcing. That was not a thing.

00:43:27.429 --> 00:43:31.349
We didn't have Kickstarter, none of that stuff.

00:43:31.489 --> 00:43:34.469
He was just, put something on the website that

00:43:34.469 --> 00:43:36.690
says we want people to invest. And so we put

00:43:36.690 --> 00:43:40.070
something on the website, and people invested.

00:43:40.170 --> 00:43:44.360
And we got the album made. really fucking quick.

00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.619
And this is in like the year 2000, 99, 2000.

00:43:47.619 --> 00:43:51.860
Somewhere in there, yeah. And so that was when

00:43:51.860 --> 00:43:54.320
I knew that the internet had this power. And

00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:56.039
I know that Patterson knew a bunch of the people

00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:57.760
that invested personally and he talked to them.

00:43:57.860 --> 00:44:00.019
So it wasn't all the internet by any means. So

00:44:00.019 --> 00:44:02.440
Kickstarter, just for the record, was founded

00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:06.639
on April 28, 2009. Wow. I could have started

00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:09.730
that a long time ago. And I've missed that opportunity

00:44:09.730 --> 00:44:11.929
so many times I can't even talk about it. And

00:44:11.929 --> 00:44:13.630
I'm sure you have, too. You know, anybody who's

00:44:13.630 --> 00:44:14.949
on the internet, you're like, wow, I've thought

00:44:14.949 --> 00:44:17.369
about PayPal a million times. Well, I also just

00:44:17.369 --> 00:44:20.170
think, like, people like you and me that were

00:44:20.170 --> 00:44:23.650
latching on to bands and pushing them, like,

00:44:23.730 --> 00:44:28.889
we, there's something, like, we, you sniffed

00:44:28.889 --> 00:44:31.489
out a lot of bands that ended up being really

00:44:31.489 --> 00:44:36.599
successful and, you know, have. shocking legacies

00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:38.940
you know what i mean and i feel like the same

00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.780
kind of like you know i ended up with working

00:44:40.780 --> 00:44:43.000
with the two you know two of the five local bands

00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.219
that just happened to get signed from you know

00:44:45.219 --> 00:44:49.519
as a teenager and i guess my point is like do

00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.719
you have you ever felt like you were almost like

00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:55.070
a muse or like a good luck charm or I do feel

00:44:55.070 --> 00:44:56.909
like a good luck charm sometimes, but I kind

00:44:56.909 --> 00:44:58.630
of think of it more like I'm the ashtray that

00:44:58.630 --> 00:45:00.710
people put their cigarettes on him. Like I'm

00:45:00.710 --> 00:45:02.510
the one they all come together and this is weird

00:45:02.510 --> 00:45:04.489
all. And I know that's terrible. That's not,

00:45:04.530 --> 00:45:06.730
that's just how it appears in my head. But I

00:45:06.730 --> 00:45:09.650
feel like I know a lot of people. I have a, I

00:45:09.650 --> 00:45:11.630
think what somebody told me is I'm a connector.

00:45:12.170 --> 00:45:14.789
And I think that you're that way too. So like

00:45:14.789 --> 00:45:17.760
you're the person who. You know the people, and

00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.679
you connect the people, and you make things happen

00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:22.059
that way. But it's not really anything that you

00:45:22.059 --> 00:45:24.059
do yourself. You just happen to be the person

00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:26.239
that everybody likes. I think this podcast is

00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:28.139
the first time I've ever been able to turn that

00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:31.139
into something productive. Yeah, and that's fantastic.

00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:33.780
And I think that website that I made for the

00:45:33.780 --> 00:45:38.000
truckers was the first time I was too. How did

00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:40.800
you evolve the website as the technology got

00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:43.280
better? Did you find yourself wanting to keep

00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:45.480
up with the latest programming languages and

00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:49.340
doing new tricks on the site? It was my job still.

00:45:49.579 --> 00:45:52.320
For all those years I worked for Intuit, I was

00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.340
a web developer. So that's what I did. So I had

00:45:55.340 --> 00:45:57.679
to keep up on it. Because it was banking, you

00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.460
had to be super on top of everything. So Intuit

00:46:00.460 --> 00:46:03.980
was educating you on how to make... That's right.

00:46:04.099 --> 00:46:06.440
These bands' websites better and better. Yeah,

00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:09.300
that's right. But Patterson always wanted to

00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:11.880
keep the trucker's website pretty simple. He

00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.239
wanted it to have the information, and this was

00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:16.360
my philosophy as well. It needs to be something

00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:21.119
that's easy to find, easy to navigate. have the

00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:22.960
information that you want there. It doesn't necessarily

00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.300
have to have bells and whistles and spinning

00:46:25.300 --> 00:46:27.800
things and jumping things. It's not the point.

00:46:27.820 --> 00:46:29.860
The point is the information is there. And if

00:46:29.860 --> 00:46:32.800
you could find where to see them next and where

00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:35.639
to buy their albums, it was successful. You know

00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.380
what I mean? Get the lyrics. You can get the

00:46:37.380 --> 00:46:39.099
lyrics. That's successful. Things that people

00:46:39.099 --> 00:46:42.079
want. That, I think, was one of the... I think

00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:44.719
the Drive -By Truckers were one of the first

00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.019
bands I ever was aware of to put their lyrics

00:46:47.019 --> 00:46:49.400
on their website. Yeah, and it's... Still to

00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:52.480
this day, the most hit pages of all are the lyrics

00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:55.159
pages. Wow. Because people will go to the front

00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:57.019
page, and then they'll hit. Was that something

00:46:57.019 --> 00:47:01.340
that you pushed for? Patterson and I both wanted

00:47:01.340 --> 00:47:04.000
lyrics, but Patterson really, he was very big

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:06.199
on having his lyrics out there, or their lyrics

00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:09.519
out there, and for good reason, because that's

00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.820
what's part of their charm. I mean, I think that's,

00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:15.739
the artwork is what. You know, invited me in.

00:47:15.820 --> 00:47:18.760
The lyrics is what made me stay. Yeah. Because

00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:20.320
you hear that one turn of phrase and you're like,

00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:22.420
holy shit, this is amazing. I'm putting people

00:47:22.420 --> 00:47:24.860
on the moon on repeat that night. And it was

00:47:24.860 --> 00:47:28.559
all over. That was it? That was the song for

00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:29.599
you was putting people on the moon? It was putting

00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:33.360
people on the moon. Wow. It was all over. I mean,

00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:36.000
there's so many great songs on the Dirty South.

00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.880
I know. That happened to me with. Yeah. That

00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:41.980
was just the first one. Yeah. Daddy's Cup is

00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:45.210
another one. Yeah. Goddamn Lonely Love is another

00:47:45.210 --> 00:47:48.369
one. I know. You know, I mean, it's just, yeah.

00:47:48.710 --> 00:47:50.849
I remember when they gave me the roughs for that

00:47:50.849 --> 00:47:53.949
record. I was living on King Avenue over here

00:47:53.949 --> 00:47:56.389
in Athens, and I just had pulled in. I was listening

00:47:56.389 --> 00:47:59.409
to it on the car on a tape deck. You know, Patterson

00:47:59.409 --> 00:48:01.389
made me the tape, and I was listening to it in

00:48:01.389 --> 00:48:02.869
the car, and I was driving home, and it was almost

00:48:02.869 --> 00:48:05.710
over, and I parked in my driveway just bawling

00:48:05.710 --> 00:48:08.699
because I knew. I knew it was one of the best

00:48:08.699 --> 00:48:10.820
things I'd ever heard. I couldn't believe that

00:48:10.820 --> 00:48:12.699
my friends put that out. I just couldn't believe

00:48:12.699 --> 00:48:16.500
it. And I just sat there in the car crying for

00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:19.840
probably 45 minutes and listening to it over

00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.679
and over because it was just so fucking good.

00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:27.420
And there's something about, there's a disconnect

00:48:27.420 --> 00:48:30.019
that you have where you can't, these people who

00:48:30.019 --> 00:48:33.000
you fart in front of you, you know, they have

00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.130
this incredible, incredible skill to put your

00:48:36.130 --> 00:48:38.809
feelings into words and they did it and this

00:48:38.809 --> 00:48:42.829
whole album was just astounding to me i couldn't

00:48:42.829 --> 00:48:46.090
believe it there's yeah there's nothing on that

00:48:46.090 --> 00:48:48.469
record that there's not a single note that i

00:48:48.469 --> 00:48:52.070
would i haven't have it but i haven't even wanted

00:48:52.070 --> 00:48:55.210
to listen to the and i know i need to but i haven't

00:48:55.210 --> 00:48:57.550
even listened to the reboot the reboot because

00:48:57.550 --> 00:49:01.400
i just loved that i know version of that I know.

00:49:01.820 --> 00:49:04.139
I'm that way with a lot of those, too. I really

00:49:04.139 --> 00:49:06.079
don't want to hear that. But they do a good job

00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:08.820
with me. And I understand, like, first of all,

00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:10.780
I've been trusting them for a long time. They're

00:49:10.780 --> 00:49:13.199
not, you know, they're, he's making it better.

00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:15.159
Like, he's making it the way he wanted it to

00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:16.719
be in the first place. Right. You know, and I

00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:19.539
respect that. And I do want to experience it

00:49:19.539 --> 00:49:22.800
that way. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard to. It's

00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:27.019
what you fell in love with. It's like your wife

00:49:27.019 --> 00:49:31.409
gets a boob job. And you're just like. I love

00:49:31.409 --> 00:49:34.030
it, but holy shit, I miss your old real titties.

00:49:34.889 --> 00:49:37.030
You know what I mean? That is like the best fucking

00:49:37.030 --> 00:49:41.170
analogy for a remaster of an album that you love

00:49:41.170 --> 00:49:44.289
that I think I've ever heard. I've never really

00:49:44.289 --> 00:49:46.369
thought about it that way either. That's fucking

00:49:46.369 --> 00:49:50.630
brilliant. That's the immediate thought. We're

00:49:50.630 --> 00:49:52.469
both like crying over this album. Isn't that

00:49:52.469 --> 00:49:57.590
crazy? Do you want a church? Sure, yeah. I mean,

00:49:57.590 --> 00:50:01.119
that's what... That's what they do to you. It

00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:03.880
really is. And that's the thing about the truckers

00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:07.019
to this day, to this fucking day. I've never

00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:09.480
seen a show where I didn't think they were better

00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:11.780
than they were the last time I saw them. And

00:50:11.780 --> 00:50:13.500
I don't know how it's possible to keep getting,

00:50:13.539 --> 00:50:15.239
like I've seen some shows where they were super

00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:17.639
drunk and it was really bad, but it was still,

00:50:17.719 --> 00:50:20.480
the passion was there. The feeling was there

00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:22.820
that made it a great show. I was talking to Sloane

00:50:22.820 --> 00:50:25.289
Simpson. And he's been on the podcast, but I

00:50:25.289 --> 00:50:27.789
was just talking to him. We became like, but

00:50:27.789 --> 00:50:30.250
he came on the podcast and we just saw, I heard

00:50:30.250 --> 00:50:35.309
that one. And we were just like, how are they

00:50:35.309 --> 00:50:38.210
still getting better? Yeah. And this was just

00:50:38.210 --> 00:50:42.949
after homecoming this year, because I felt like

00:50:42.949 --> 00:50:45.289
the Southern rock opera reboot or, you know,

00:50:45.289 --> 00:50:48.909
the tour was one of the smartest things that

00:50:48.909 --> 00:50:52.559
they did for themselves as a band, because. especially

00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.679
being there hearing the last time they did it

00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:58.619
and i and i heard i saw that tour total of four

00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:02.539
times i saw new orleans birmingham atlanta wow

00:51:02.539 --> 00:51:10.079
and then the final night and um fuck i don't

00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:14.679
if the show they played after where they played

00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:17.809
not a single song they like That set list Friday

00:51:17.809 --> 00:51:20.250
night, or Thursday night, they didn't play a

00:51:20.250 --> 00:51:22.210
single song that they had played on that tour.

00:51:22.389 --> 00:51:25.469
Yeah. And it was like they fell in love with

00:51:25.469 --> 00:51:28.869
their whole catalog all over again. Yeah. It's

00:51:28.869 --> 00:51:31.150
great when they have such a huge catalog to pick

00:51:31.150 --> 00:51:34.329
from. It's kind of crazy. Is it like 250 songs

00:51:34.329 --> 00:51:36.949
now or some shit like that? And Patterson was

00:51:36.949 --> 00:51:38.730
complaining last time I saw him, just like, I

00:51:38.730 --> 00:51:41.250
can't remember. I'm like, well, no shit, dude.

00:51:41.650 --> 00:51:44.469
How do you remember half the things? You've written

00:51:44.469 --> 00:51:47.500
so much. They're so prolific. It's so funny because

00:51:47.500 --> 00:51:50.500
some of the fans remember him better. But it's

00:51:50.500 --> 00:51:55.300
like, dude, we're autistic as fuck. It's helpful.

00:51:55.739 --> 00:51:59.079
I know he looks out in the audience to get the

00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:04.519
answer sometimes. He has to. Yeah, yeah. Cooley,

00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:07.719
too. He can't remember. But, yeah. They just

00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.940
keep getting better. They do. Despite the fact

00:52:10.940 --> 00:52:12.659
that occasionally they might forget a lyric or

00:52:12.659 --> 00:52:16.980
something. Just as a band. They're tighter than

00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:18.860
they've ever been. Now that they've settled into

00:52:18.860 --> 00:52:23.360
themselves, they're all happy. There's no infighting.

00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:26.760
There's no drama. It's just everybody's good.

00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:29.119
Everybody's ready to rock, and that's what they

00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:32.719
do. Let's go back to this crowdfunding thing.

00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:39.719
I feel like we talked about the tour 25 years

00:52:39.719 --> 00:52:44.949
later. That was the culmination of... That whole

00:52:44.949 --> 00:52:50.469
thing, yeah. How did you set up just the mechanics

00:52:50.469 --> 00:52:52.670
and the logistics for something like that? How

00:52:52.670 --> 00:52:56.690
did you collect payment? I'm trying to think

00:52:56.690 --> 00:52:59.190
of all the things that Kickstarter or somebody

00:52:59.190 --> 00:53:04.409
does. It really wasn't me. All I did at that

00:53:04.409 --> 00:53:06.010
point was tell people that that was what was

00:53:06.010 --> 00:53:07.849
happening. Patterson's the one who took care

00:53:07.849 --> 00:53:10.010
of all of it. I think Earl might have helped

00:53:10.010 --> 00:53:14.329
some, too, but he took the money. He did the

00:53:14.329 --> 00:53:16.530
IOUs. People were just giving him checks and

00:53:16.530 --> 00:53:18.610
cash. Giving him checks and cash. And you know

00:53:18.610 --> 00:53:22.190
what? He paid everybody back with interest. Have

00:53:22.190 --> 00:53:25.170
you ever heard of that ever happening? I don't

00:53:25.170 --> 00:53:28.570
even know how. I've never yet. Like what? Well,

00:53:28.610 --> 00:53:31.610
they sold like a thousand copies out of the back

00:53:31.610 --> 00:53:33.730
of their van. That's how they did it. That's

00:53:33.730 --> 00:53:35.010
right. That's how he paid people back. That's

00:53:35.010 --> 00:53:36.929
right. And he paid people back. And they were

00:53:36.929 --> 00:53:39.800
still able to. Keep going, you know, somehow.

00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:42.159
I don't know. I had no idea what the numbers

00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:45.179
actually were in and out. That'd be a question

00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:48.579
for him. Right, right. Well, I mean, that's not

00:53:48.579 --> 00:53:52.059
super interesting either. But I think what is

00:53:52.059 --> 00:53:53.559
interesting is the spirit behind that. Well,

00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:56.199
there was no social media. There was no social

00:53:56.199 --> 00:53:58.500
media. So we didn't have any way to really spread

00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:00.000
the word. But these people believed in it, too.

00:54:00.139 --> 00:54:03.239
For sure. Because what I think was interesting

00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:05.630
about what you just pointed out. These people

00:54:05.630 --> 00:54:07.809
did not expect to get their money back. They

00:54:07.809 --> 00:54:09.369
were just putting the money into something. Yeah,

00:54:09.369 --> 00:54:11.530
they were just staying here. Yeah, that's right.

00:54:11.829 --> 00:54:14.170
And people at Kickstarter don't really expect

00:54:14.170 --> 00:54:16.389
to get their money back either, so it's not anything

00:54:16.389 --> 00:54:19.570
that's done. They've put some more fail -safes

00:54:19.570 --> 00:54:22.769
into it nowadays, I think. But, yeah, I mean,

00:54:22.789 --> 00:54:24.489
I think especially in the early days of it, when

00:54:24.489 --> 00:54:26.929
you were doing it in the same spirit of what

00:54:26.929 --> 00:54:29.170
they were doing, you know, with the rock opera,

00:54:29.329 --> 00:54:31.449
yeah, people were just like, no, I want to support

00:54:31.449 --> 00:54:34.329
this project. But once they started touring with

00:54:34.329 --> 00:54:37.090
Southern Rock Opera, that was the end. I mean,

00:54:37.090 --> 00:54:39.670
that's when all the people started noticing,

00:54:39.789 --> 00:54:42.230
the articles started coming out that were praising

00:54:42.230 --> 00:54:44.489
them and their writing and all that stuff, and

00:54:44.489 --> 00:54:46.530
that's when shit started really building. And

00:54:46.530 --> 00:54:49.150
I could tell online, I could tell by then that

00:54:49.150 --> 00:54:51.949
we were getting much more hits, people were really

00:54:51.949 --> 00:54:54.409
starting to talk, and the forums were all gathering

00:54:54.409 --> 00:54:57.230
new members and stuff like that, and then social

00:54:57.230 --> 00:55:00.889
media came about. And it was MySpace. And, you

00:55:00.889 --> 00:55:04.289
know. When did Three Dimes Down start? And how

00:55:04.289 --> 00:55:07.050
much did you work with them on just, like, collaboration?

00:55:08.010 --> 00:55:10.670
So, originally, there was another one, I think.

00:55:10.849 --> 00:55:13.309
Okay. And I can't remember what it was called.

00:55:13.409 --> 00:55:17.190
But there was another board like that. And then

00:55:17.190 --> 00:55:19.710
Three Dimes Down started, I think, the same person.

00:55:20.929 --> 00:55:23.269
But I could be misremembering that. You may have

00:55:23.269 --> 00:55:24.789
to cut that because I don't know what I'm talking

00:55:24.789 --> 00:55:27.590
about. But, yeah. I think the fact that you said

00:55:27.590 --> 00:55:29.409
you don't know that, you know, you're not sure.

00:55:29.510 --> 00:55:31.449
Yeah, I don't remember. Maybe somebody will email

00:55:31.449 --> 00:55:34.570
in with the answer. I don't remember when Three

00:55:34.570 --> 00:55:37.789
Diamonds Down started, but I do know I was in

00:55:37.789 --> 00:55:39.750
communication with the guy who started all that

00:55:39.750 --> 00:55:41.909
stuff for a while. He sent me tapes and stuff.

00:55:42.510 --> 00:55:45.610
And it was great. That was there. I never really

00:55:45.610 --> 00:55:47.889
got, I got on it some, but not a whole lot. Yeah,

00:55:47.909 --> 00:55:50.570
I was not ever active on it. It was just, it

00:55:50.570 --> 00:55:52.710
was kind of fascinating, though, to go and watch

00:55:52.710 --> 00:55:55.820
people talk about these people. That I knew.

00:55:55.940 --> 00:55:58.800
And it's not like now you see on Facebook it's

00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:00.239
totally different because it's so much more,

00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:02.519
it's not anonymous necessarily, but people are

00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:05.340
so much more used to saying shitty things. Yeah.

00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:08.139
As long as there's a computer in front of them,

00:56:08.179 --> 00:56:10.739
they're fine saying stuff. So like Jason Isbell's

00:56:10.739 --> 00:56:14.280
Facebook group. Right. Miserable, right? People

00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:17.400
are just so hateful and so mean to him. And it's

00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:18.559
like, what the... You're talking about stopping

00:56:18.559 --> 00:56:21.320
by? Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what the... What the

00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:23.159
fuck is wrong with people? Why are you here just

00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:26.880
to bash somebody? I will say our friend Courtney.

00:56:26.980 --> 00:56:30.860
Oh, yeah, now Courtney's taking over. She'll

00:56:30.860 --> 00:56:33.739
whip him into shape, no doubt. I think so. Shout

00:56:33.739 --> 00:56:36.460
out to Courtney. Courtney. The Drive -By Truckers

00:56:36.460 --> 00:56:39.679
Facebook group. Yeah. Keeps that place, like,

00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:42.300
super clean. Yeah, she really does. I don't know

00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:44.599
what we would have done without her. I couldn't

00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:46.760
take it on. I have too much other stuff to do.

00:56:46.840 --> 00:56:49.400
So by the time the truckers really got big on

00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:52.679
the Internet. It was out of my hands. I even,

00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:55.860
like Jason Wilson, who does the social media

00:56:55.860 --> 00:57:00.039
now, way back, gosh, I guess it's been 10 years

00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:03.500
ago or more, I gave that to him because I was

00:57:03.500 --> 00:57:06.079
like, I just don't have time. I have a job. I

00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:09.239
have a life. I can't take care of everything.

00:57:09.559 --> 00:57:12.139
So he took over social media. Thank God. He's

00:57:12.139 --> 00:57:16.059
done an amazing job. And so has... Everybody

00:57:16.059 --> 00:57:18.760
else who was involved with all those little bits,

00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:21.440
Tracy Thomas promoting them is the reason they

00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:23.659
are where they are because she knows how to promote.

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:26.619
It had a little bit to do with the internet starting

00:57:26.619 --> 00:57:29.599
and us badgering people to go see them live and

00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:31.059
badgering people to go see them live for years.

00:57:31.340 --> 00:57:33.420
And then once Southern Rockhopper hit, Tracy

00:57:33.420 --> 00:57:37.699
Thomas came along. It was her. She just knows

00:57:37.699 --> 00:57:40.519
how to do it, obviously, because she's now Jason's

00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:45.699
manager. What's really interesting, though, is

00:57:45.699 --> 00:57:51.780
now the internet is such a crowded place. Yeah.

00:57:53.139 --> 00:57:56.820
It's this double -edged sword where anybody can

00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:59.699
get heard, but you have to sift through everybody

00:57:59.699 --> 00:58:03.119
to find good shit. And it's just getting worse

00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:07.820
with AI. Unfortunately, AI is training on internet

00:58:07.820 --> 00:58:12.409
content, which is now being filled with... content

00:58:12.409 --> 00:58:15.769
that ai created so it's eating its own tail it's

00:58:15.769 --> 00:58:18.210
sort of becoming a shittier and shittier version

00:58:18.210 --> 00:58:20.929
so everything the ai comes up with now is based

00:58:20.929 --> 00:58:23.809
on stuff that it created which was based on stuff

00:58:23.809 --> 00:58:27.989
that was real but it's wild it's off like it's

00:58:27.989 --> 00:58:30.809
always wrong a little bit so it just keeps getting

00:58:30.809 --> 00:58:34.130
it's like the using the same mold for clay over

00:58:34.130 --> 00:58:36.210
and over over time it just gets worse and worse

00:58:36.210 --> 00:58:37.929
what's that called i forget what that's called

00:58:37.929 --> 00:58:41.099
have you seen multiplicity Have I? I think so.

00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:43.920
It's an old movie where it's from the 90s. That's

00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:47.360
right. He's cloned. And then the clones keep

00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:49.519
making copies of themselves. That's exactly right.

00:58:49.619 --> 00:58:50.780
Each one is like a shittier movie. Gets a little

00:58:50.780 --> 00:58:53.559
shittier. That's how the internet is ending up

00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:55.519
now, sadly. I think it's just going to end up

00:58:55.519 --> 00:59:00.380
as what it used to be. It's just a memory. But

00:59:00.380 --> 00:59:03.659
for now, for this moment, at this moment now.

00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:06.739
we still have a little bit of integrity left.

00:59:06.860 --> 00:59:08.719
There's still places you can trust and there's

00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:11.440
still things. That's why I think having an actual

00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:14.460
website is important. So many bands gave up their

00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:16.420
websites when they got social media or never

00:59:16.420 --> 00:59:18.400
built a website when they got social media. That's

00:59:18.400 --> 00:59:22.480
such a great point. Yeah. I made them hang on

00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:24.420
to the website because I'm like, this is where

00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:26.920
people want. This is the real thing. You know,

00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:30.239
this is from you. This isn't somebody on fucking

00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:32.599
Reddit saying that you're great or, you know,

00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:35.179
anything else. This is your words here. This

00:59:35.179 --> 00:59:38.639
is your presence. Let's keep it. Don't get rid

00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:40.199
of it just because social media is out there.

00:59:40.219 --> 00:59:42.099
Nobody comes to the website right now. I promise

00:59:42.099 --> 00:59:45.170
they'll be back. And they will, right? Absolutely.

00:59:45.170 --> 00:59:46.989
I mean, because everything out there is crazy.

00:59:47.090 --> 00:59:48.909
So where do you go when you want to see where

00:59:48.909 --> 00:59:50.530
they're playing? You go to their fucking website.

00:59:50.849 --> 00:59:53.289
I know. I sure as hell don't buy tickets anywhere

00:59:53.289 --> 00:59:55.449
else. Yeah. Because you're going to get scammed.

00:59:55.550 --> 00:59:58.409
Scammed, yeah. Like, you go to the band's website

00:59:58.409 --> 01:00:01.070
or the venue's website to get the tickets. Right.

01:00:01.150 --> 01:00:03.969
And you don't go. It's direct. Don't even go

01:00:03.969 --> 01:00:06.530
to Ticketmaster. Yeah. Or whatever. Like, you

01:00:06.530 --> 01:00:09.210
just follow the link. That's right. It's direct

01:00:09.210 --> 01:00:11.329
to the thing. You don't want to go fucking around

01:00:11.329 --> 01:00:15.889
with. Some random link somewhere. I have definitely

01:00:15.889 --> 01:00:21.349
come this close to buying scam tickets to a comedy

01:00:21.349 --> 01:00:24.090
show or a sporting event that I was trying to

01:00:24.090 --> 01:00:27.269
go to last minute. I know, man. So I recently

01:00:27.269 --> 01:00:30.230
got into K -pop, which not really all of K -pop,

01:00:30.329 --> 01:00:31.949
but there's a certain group that I really like

01:00:31.949 --> 01:00:33.570
that produce their own stuff, write their own

01:00:33.570 --> 01:00:36.010
stuff, and all that stuff. And just trying to

01:00:36.010 --> 01:00:39.119
buy tickets for that online is insane. Insane.

01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:41.199
Not only is the Ticketmaster resale thing, which

01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:43.980
we all hate, right? Everybody fucking hates Ticketmaster.

01:00:45.099 --> 01:00:48.360
But the scammers that are out there, it's crazy

01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:51.659
how they're so good now. You can actually get

01:00:51.659 --> 01:00:56.280
a ticket to the show, pay $600, and then show

01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:57.940
up and the ticket's already been used. Ticket's

01:00:57.940 --> 01:01:01.300
fucking been used, yeah. It's a mess. It's a

01:01:01.300 --> 01:01:04.480
mess. It is crazy. I'm glad I'm not getting into

01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:06.849
the internet today. And then there's some clubs

01:01:06.849 --> 01:01:08.769
where they're just like, and I don't want to

01:01:08.769 --> 01:01:12.170
name names, but they're just like, oh, what name

01:01:12.170 --> 01:01:16.610
are the tickets under? Oh, yeah. You can literally

01:01:16.610 --> 01:01:18.969
just know somebody has tickets. That's right.

01:01:19.070 --> 01:01:21.090
That's all you got to do. And then you can walk

01:01:21.090 --> 01:01:26.409
in and they're tickets. Yeah. So what do you

01:01:26.409 --> 01:01:28.630
still hang on to in terms of like you've passed

01:01:28.630 --> 01:01:32.250
social media on? Do you still do the website?

01:01:35.339 --> 01:01:39.820
Where do your duties end? So recently we started,

01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:42.800
we pull in the, for a long time, all I had really

01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:44.440
changed was stuff. When they put out an album,

01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:46.420
I'd change everything, of course. Put lyrics

01:01:46.420 --> 01:01:48.719
up and whatever they wanted up. If Patterson

01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:52.719
wrote a, you know, one of his missives, one of

01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:54.920
his, where he tells everybody what's going on,

01:01:54.980 --> 01:01:56.599
I would put that on the website. So I really

01:01:56.599 --> 01:01:59.199
didn't have that much to do other than just keeping

01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:01.420
it clean and keeping it, you know. You have like

01:02:01.420 --> 01:02:05.050
Westfried fonts. No, I don't. I wish I did. We

01:02:05.050 --> 01:02:07.429
should have made a Westfield font. But I'd get

01:02:07.429 --> 01:02:09.409
as close as I could. I'm an artist, too. Yeah,

01:02:09.409 --> 01:02:12.630
yeah, of course. I could do stuff. And, of course,

01:02:12.650 --> 01:02:14.429
Patterson's sister, Lilla, she lays out all the

01:02:14.429 --> 01:02:17.070
albums and does all the art for that stuff. You

01:02:17.070 --> 01:02:18.789
could probably make a font if you've got enough

01:02:18.789 --> 01:02:20.829
tour posters. You definitely could make a font.

01:02:21.849 --> 01:02:23.829
But there's a lot of stuff that I can't do. Like,

01:02:23.829 --> 01:02:25.289
Patterson wants, he's like, can we get every

01:02:25.289 --> 01:02:29.960
tour poster scanned in and put online? Sure.

01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:32.519
That's going to take me about 15 years. Yeah,

01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:35.480
you need an archivist. I did work as an archivist.

01:02:35.719 --> 01:02:38.980
Oh, really? I have a history degree. Oh, nice.

01:02:39.340 --> 01:02:43.039
I'm just throwing things out there. I mean, start

01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:46.099
collecting posters. Scanning them in. I will

01:02:46.099 --> 01:02:49.780
say the collection of the homecoming posters

01:02:49.780 --> 01:02:54.360
that's in the Company We Keep book is one of

01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:57.599
the coolest things. Yeah. And they're really

01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:01.239
high -quality scans. Yeah. There's so many posters.

01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:04.900
So for merch, I did the merch for a while. I

01:03:04.900 --> 01:03:07.400
was like the merch creator and manager and stuff

01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:10.320
like that, but not for very long. And then before

01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:12.619
that, I had started keeping a piece of every

01:03:12.619 --> 01:03:15.840
merch that we did. And so at the headquarters

01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:20.260
over here in Athens, we have a small collection

01:03:20.260 --> 01:03:23.559
of everything that we had for the first few years.

01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:27.119
that I just put up there. And then just one of

01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:29.780
everything. So sometimes some of it disappears.

01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:32.360
Somebody will go up there and find it. But we

01:03:32.360 --> 01:03:34.960
tried to keep one of everything, which is kind

01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:38.880
of cool. There's some old shit up there. But

01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:40.679
then I just turned it over to them and stopped

01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:42.460
collecting myself because they just got to be

01:03:42.460 --> 01:03:44.920
too much. Like, they're putting out six t -shirts

01:03:44.920 --> 01:03:47.119
or eight t -shirts. Yeah, every tour has. Yeah,

01:03:47.159 --> 01:03:49.739
yeah. Every tour has three hats and two posters

01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:51.980
or ten posters or whatever. It's just too much.

01:03:52.139 --> 01:03:55.139
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do think the archivist

01:03:55.139 --> 01:03:58.679
in me says if they want it done, what you do

01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:01.539
is you start doing it going forward. Yeah. And

01:04:01.539 --> 01:04:03.619
then you slowly work through the back paddle.

01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:06.619
Yeah. Well, just to do the West Freed ones would

01:04:06.619 --> 01:04:09.679
be fantastic. And of course, without him, we

01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:12.059
have a hard time. Although, you know, we could

01:04:12.059 --> 01:04:14.579
go to where he lived and Jackie would let us

01:04:14.579 --> 01:04:17.199
look at everything and take what we needed. But

01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:21.340
it's just so much. I mean, he did so many posters.

01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:24.420
He did so many. I could not, I don't even think

01:04:24.420 --> 01:04:26.099
I could remember. He ordered a year, I think.

01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:29.500
Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. And not to mention T -shirts

01:04:29.500 --> 01:04:32.119
and everything else. I don't know what they're

01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:33.880
going to do. Nobody knows what they're going

01:04:33.880 --> 01:04:36.579
to do now. Well, Patterson did find a really

01:04:36.579 --> 01:04:39.380
good solution with his last solo record. Yes,

01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:42.360
absolutely. I really was hoping he would find

01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:45.539
young, new artists and start using them. And

01:04:45.539 --> 01:04:47.480
that's what he's done with his solo stuff. I

01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:49.739
don't know what Truckers will do. Their brand

01:04:49.739 --> 01:04:52.420
is so strong with Wes's stuff. They're going

01:04:52.420 --> 01:04:54.380
to try to use it, I think, as long as they can.

01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.380
You were talking earlier about how they didn't

01:04:58.380 --> 01:05:03.079
really fit into any of that scene. like the Star

01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:06.860
Bar and stuff like that, right? And I think part

01:05:06.860 --> 01:05:09.340
of it is because it's, you know, they're lyrics

01:05:09.340 --> 01:05:11.420
and they, like, I mean, in some ways they're,

01:05:11.420 --> 01:05:14.199
like, writing folk songs but playing them, like,

01:05:14.260 --> 01:05:19.179
heavy rock. I don't know. But I do know that

01:05:19.179 --> 01:05:22.780
it only takes me, like, a note to know that it's

01:05:22.780 --> 01:05:26.760
them. Yeah. They have the most distinctive sound

01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:30.960
of any band in the last, like, 30, 40, 50 years

01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:33.260
that I can think of. Yeah. And that's a lot of

01:05:33.260 --> 01:05:35.059
Dave Barbie, too. He really helped with that

01:05:35.059 --> 01:05:38.900
as well. Yeah. Yeah. I caught, like, part of

01:05:38.900 --> 01:05:41.300
his set last night. My flicker was packed. I

01:05:41.300 --> 01:05:45.079
bet it was. It was crazy. But I do think, like,

01:05:45.139 --> 01:05:47.699
in the way that they have this, like, guitar

01:05:47.699 --> 01:05:50.940
sound that is, like, so distinctive, you're right.

01:05:51.019 --> 01:05:56.170
Like, Wes Breed's art. Even if it's not art for

01:05:56.170 --> 01:05:59.190
them, it makes me think of them immediately.

01:05:59.429 --> 01:06:02.829
I know. It's like, in the Singer to a Happy Ending,

01:06:02.829 --> 01:06:06.030
he says that he hears things in the music that

01:06:06.030 --> 01:06:08.650
they didn't write, and they saw things in his

01:06:08.650 --> 01:06:11.289
pictures that he didn't draw. That's right. It's

01:06:11.289 --> 01:06:13.050
like they were in conversation with each other.

01:06:13.630 --> 01:06:17.710
I mean, it really is, to me, it's like losing

01:06:17.710 --> 01:06:20.070
a member of the band. Yeah, it definitely is.

01:06:20.170 --> 01:06:22.489
Not only that, but he was such a close friend.

01:06:23.549 --> 01:06:25.010
Patterson, I don't know if we'll ever recover

01:06:25.010 --> 01:06:29.449
from this. I feel like I'm still going through

01:06:29.449 --> 01:06:31.610
it every day because, you know, he just called.

01:06:31.690 --> 01:06:34.469
Like, he just called. I saw his name come up

01:06:34.469 --> 01:06:36.530
on my phone, and I was like, yay, Wes is out

01:06:36.530 --> 01:06:38.329
of surgery. And I picked it up, and it was Jackie

01:06:38.329 --> 01:06:40.829
telling me he was dead. You know, I just, it

01:06:40.829 --> 01:06:44.440
still blows my mind that it even happened. He

01:06:44.440 --> 01:06:47.340
didn't, he wasn't, it wasn't time for him. No.

01:06:47.619 --> 01:06:50.039
Something happened. And I don't think we ever

01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:52.139
get over it. No, I don't think so. When we have

01:06:52.139 --> 01:06:56.340
those losses like that. Yeah. It's still Craig.

01:06:56.500 --> 01:07:01.320
Craig, Chris, Wes, just the people that we've

01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:06.760
lost, it's insane. It's insane that we can keep

01:07:06.760 --> 01:07:09.679
going sometimes, I think. Well, I mean, so I

01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:12.480
always view Craig as kind of like the liaisons

01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:16.179
of fans. God. He was the best. Like where I feel

01:07:16.179 --> 01:07:20.219
like I was a connector, Craig had me beat. He

01:07:20.219 --> 01:07:22.480
could remember people's names. He could talk

01:07:22.480 --> 01:07:25.719
to anybody. He was just completely the friendliest,

01:07:25.900 --> 01:07:29.460
nicest person in the world. And he could just

01:07:29.460 --> 01:07:32.239
make you feel welcome. And that's why he was

01:07:32.239 --> 01:07:34.920
so good at it. There's a hole that will never

01:07:34.920 --> 01:07:38.679
get filled by our friends. But in the sense of

01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:42.460
there being like this outreach to the fans. I

01:07:42.460 --> 01:07:45.440
feel like people like Jay really became like

01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:48.639
this. And it was natural, I think, for him. Because

01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:51.820
he's the nicest human on the face of the planet.

01:07:51.940 --> 01:07:58.280
He really is. The point that I'm making is there's

01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:01.719
so many people that believe in them, that love

01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:03.840
them, that surround them. They've surrounded

01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:06.860
themselves with so many good people that when

01:08:06.860 --> 01:08:11.340
something like that happens, It's going to be

01:08:11.340 --> 01:08:16.140
okay. You're going to figure it out. Somebody

01:08:16.140 --> 01:08:21.279
always steps up and fills the role. The shoes

01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:24.739
are never going to be filled, but the roles get

01:08:24.739 --> 01:08:32.199
taken care of. When I saw Patterson on the solo

01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:34.479
show, we talked for a few minutes in Atlanta

01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:37.720
just a few months ago. And I was like, dude,

01:08:37.800 --> 01:08:40.239
thank you for not letting me regret this. Because

01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:43.699
I got this tattoo and I'm like 20. Wow, that's

01:08:43.699 --> 01:08:47.300
crazy. I'm 39 now. That's amazing. And I'm like,

01:08:47.399 --> 01:08:50.960
dude, thanks for not letting me regret this.

01:08:51.220 --> 01:08:54.939
Wouldn't that have sucked? That's a big cover

01:08:54.939 --> 01:08:59.180
-up right there. It goes back to what I think

01:08:59.180 --> 01:09:02.079
we were talking about. I don't have any other

01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:04.659
bands that I love tattooed on me. There's something

01:09:04.659 --> 01:09:09.670
about us that we knew. Yeah. That they were that

01:09:09.670 --> 01:09:12.489
special and like they would be around 20 years

01:09:12.489 --> 01:09:15.630
later. Yeah. Or at least not disappointing us

01:09:15.630 --> 01:09:19.189
with their exit, whatever it may be. Yeah. I

01:09:19.189 --> 01:09:22.989
mean, just the thought of from him playing songs

01:09:22.989 --> 01:09:26.590
on the floor of my living room when I was in

01:09:26.590 --> 01:09:30.069
college to where he is now, where they are now.

01:09:30.989 --> 01:09:33.510
It almost doesn't seem real. I mean, it really

01:09:33.510 --> 01:09:35.989
doesn't. It doesn't seem like it's not real.

01:09:36.090 --> 01:09:38.250
It doesn't seem like it's that weird. It's not

01:09:38.250 --> 01:09:42.710
strange. I expected this to happen. I did expect

01:09:42.710 --> 01:09:44.789
this to happen, but it's still really strange

01:09:44.789 --> 01:09:48.449
to see, especially with Jason, how big he is

01:09:48.449 --> 01:09:53.069
now and how huge that got. I didn't have a hand

01:09:53.069 --> 01:09:56.270
in that at all. So I can't say, but just watching

01:09:56.270 --> 01:09:59.869
it is something else. To watch it from this close.

01:09:59.909 --> 01:10:02.930
I don't know that anybody but Jason's songs had

01:10:02.930 --> 01:10:07.989
a hand in it, to be honest. He's so much more

01:10:07.989 --> 01:10:11.729
accessible musically than a lot of the other

01:10:11.729 --> 01:10:14.890
music that I love. And more than the Truckers.

01:10:14.970 --> 01:10:17.449
I mean, he is more accessible than the Truckers.

01:10:17.449 --> 01:10:21.170
He was the most accessible singer at the time

01:10:21.170 --> 01:10:24.609
in the band, I think. And I don't think anybody

01:10:24.609 --> 01:10:27.800
would argue with me there. You know, the funny

01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:30.739
thing is, Jason, when he was with the band, I

01:10:30.739 --> 01:10:33.399
remember very distinctly one night early on,

01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:36.439
I was on tour with him, and we were in the tour

01:10:36.439 --> 01:10:39.340
bus, and he came in late, really drunk, really

01:10:39.340 --> 01:10:42.060
drunk. And he just sat beside me, and he goes,

01:10:42.140 --> 01:10:46.000
you know, I just feel like I have something more

01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:48.239
to do. There's something going on. I feel like

01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:51.859
I'm meant for more than this. And I was so mad

01:10:51.859 --> 01:10:54.210
at him. I was like... I didn't say anything at

01:10:54.210 --> 01:10:55.310
the time because he was drunk. It wouldn't have

01:10:55.310 --> 01:10:57.590
mattered. But I was just like, how could you

01:10:57.590 --> 01:11:00.050
think that you are meant for more than the truckers?

01:11:00.090 --> 01:11:03.270
Are they not incredible? Are you guys not happy

01:11:03.270 --> 01:11:06.890
the way you are? And he's like, I just, I think

01:11:06.890 --> 01:11:09.229
I was meant for more than, I think I was meant

01:11:09.229 --> 01:11:13.050
for more. And I just, okay, good. You know, pat

01:11:13.050 --> 01:11:14.850
him on the head, put him to bed, that kind of

01:11:14.850 --> 01:11:18.850
thing. And then ignored it for then on. And then

01:11:18.850 --> 01:11:23.279
I realized sometime, as sometime he, I think

01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:25.659
a lot of people who are famous now have this

01:11:25.659 --> 01:11:29.220
vision before they even really are, before they

01:11:29.220 --> 01:11:31.699
know they are, before they know they can be.

01:11:31.939 --> 01:11:34.479
And I want to know where that comes from. Like,

01:11:34.500 --> 01:11:37.779
where do you have that certainty that it's going

01:11:37.779 --> 01:11:39.300
to work out and you're going to be where you're

01:11:39.300 --> 01:11:44.560
supposed to be? So, as, and I had this conversation

01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:46.699
with slightly famous somebodies on Friday night

01:11:46.699 --> 01:11:50.239
where, because they covered Fever Dog, the most

01:11:50.239 --> 01:11:53.760
famous. Oh, really? Wow. They had a lot of connections

01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:57.619
to that song and that movie. When I was a kid,

01:11:57.819 --> 01:12:02.359
people told me, you're William Miller. You're

01:12:02.359 --> 01:12:08.420
Cameron Crowe. You're that kid. And it was like

01:12:08.420 --> 01:12:09.819
one of those things where it was like, yeah,

01:12:09.859 --> 01:12:14.460
I kind of get what you mean. Yeah. And then I

01:12:14.460 --> 01:12:19.539
had a kid. And I had to stay in Tallahassee,

01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:21.819
and I had to raise my kid, and not had to. I

01:12:21.819 --> 01:12:23.199
chose to do that. Yeah, of course. And that's

01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:26.260
what I wanted to do. Of course. That was the

01:12:26.260 --> 01:12:28.359
right thing to do. Well, it's not even the right

01:12:28.359 --> 01:12:29.939
thing. I mean, it might not have been. Like,

01:12:29.939 --> 01:12:32.420
if I wasn't engaged and involved in wanting to

01:12:32.420 --> 01:12:33.840
do it, then it might not have been the right

01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:35.520
thing to do. Like, maybe the better thing to

01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:38.579
do is to walk away and not build resentment.

01:12:38.579 --> 01:12:40.260
But you knew that was the right thing for you.

01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:42.800
It was the right thing for me to do. Right. Exactly.

01:12:43.800 --> 01:12:47.039
And it was what I wanted. don't have any regret

01:12:47.039 --> 01:12:49.340
over that but I also know my daughter turned

01:12:49.340 --> 01:12:53.600
18 this year and that's insane I'm now picking

01:12:53.600 --> 01:12:55.680
up where I left off in a lot of ways when I was

01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:59.779
18 and that's fine this is better this is better

01:12:59.779 --> 01:13:01.460
than you going into it when you were young and

01:13:01.460 --> 01:13:04.020
done I have all this like now you know that's

01:13:04.020 --> 01:13:06.640
right it's like yeah that's why I've never been

01:13:06.640 --> 01:13:09.479
upset that the truckers got famous as older people

01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:11.539
because if they had gotten famous when they were

01:13:11.539 --> 01:13:13.800
young like Jason did they could have gone through

01:13:13.800 --> 01:13:16.800
this same horrible self -destruction. Who knows

01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:19.420
what would have happened? Once I was free to

01:13:19.420 --> 01:13:22.260
do what I wanted to do with my life again, without

01:13:22.260 --> 01:13:25.680
worrying about necessarily making the safe decision

01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:29.859
or the responsible choice, I went right back

01:13:29.859 --> 01:13:33.819
to what I... You knew. I mean, I feel like in

01:13:33.819 --> 01:13:36.140
a way I'm still just using this to promote bands

01:13:36.140 --> 01:13:39.020
I like. You know what I mean? There's that aspect

01:13:39.020 --> 01:13:41.319
of it. That's fine. You're still doing something

01:13:41.319 --> 01:13:44.319
that you enjoy. All these things that I've done

01:13:44.319 --> 01:13:46.199
throughout my life that I'm combining into it.

01:13:46.239 --> 01:13:48.199
Last night, I'm hanging out with Kane Stanley,

01:13:48.460 --> 01:13:49.899
who's the drummer of that band. He was on the

01:13:49.899 --> 01:13:54.460
podcast. He was like... Yeah. He looks at me,

01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:56.279
and this was one of the biggest compliments I've

01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:59.479
ever gotten. He goes, I think doing your podcast

01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:02.319
made our band have... better chemistry on stage

01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:05.859
oh you know that's true though and I was just

01:14:05.859 --> 01:14:09.899
like I was just like what like it means that

01:14:09.899 --> 01:14:11.800
you had something to do with the beauty of what

01:14:11.800 --> 01:14:14.500
came out of it it's nice it's a beautiful feeling

01:14:14.500 --> 01:14:16.920
you told me that I'm doing what I'm doing what

01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:20.119
you're supposed to be doing and I think I've

01:14:20.119 --> 01:14:23.920
always known that yeah and you asked like how

01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:27.899
you know when somebody has like this like I know

01:14:27.899 --> 01:14:29.899
that I'm supposed to do something and this is

01:14:30.670 --> 01:14:35.689
And I would disagree when Jason says that he's

01:14:35.689 --> 01:14:38.369
meant for something bigger. Sure, he might be

01:14:38.369 --> 01:14:41.270
more popular. And I love Jason. I mean, the man's

01:14:41.270 --> 01:14:46.449
got grams. Sure, sure. But he would never be

01:14:46.449 --> 01:14:49.050
where he was without the drive -by truckers.

01:14:49.090 --> 01:14:51.250
And I knew so many bands that wouldn't even exist.

01:14:51.689 --> 01:14:54.289
They changed my life. They changed everybody's

01:14:54.289 --> 01:14:58.470
lives that really get into them. Half of my friendships

01:14:58.470 --> 01:15:00.989
are like... surrounding their music, you know

01:15:00.989 --> 01:15:03.229
what I mean? And it's good that most people who

01:15:03.229 --> 01:15:05.689
know it, you know, Jason knows it, you know it,

01:15:05.729 --> 01:15:09.569
they had an effect. They made you what you are.

01:15:09.670 --> 01:15:11.590
And I love Jason. I'm not trying to... Oh, I

01:15:11.590 --> 01:15:13.949
do too. And this is the drunk comment on a tour

01:15:13.949 --> 01:15:16.670
bus 20 years ago. Exactly. I think you're right.

01:15:16.710 --> 01:15:19.689
He knew that he was meant for something different.

01:15:20.369 --> 01:15:23.069
Culturally speaking, I think the drive -by truckers

01:15:23.069 --> 01:15:26.310
are more important than just Jason by himself

01:15:26.310 --> 01:15:29.989
because... first of all jason wouldn't have a

01:15:29.989 --> 01:15:32.689
so like he wouldn't he did that like part of

01:15:32.689 --> 01:15:34.329
what made him such a good songwriter is because

01:15:34.329 --> 01:15:37.729
he was competing with that's right i mean he

01:15:37.729 --> 01:15:40.250
was already fantastic when he joined but for

01:15:40.250 --> 01:15:43.970
sure he got better like took new levels when

01:15:43.970 --> 01:15:46.909
he got sober and he admits all that you know

01:15:46.909 --> 01:15:50.029
he really they influenced him very much just

01:15:50.029 --> 01:15:53.899
that knowledge that just that foresight that

01:15:53.899 --> 01:15:56.159
you have something to do that you haven't done

01:15:56.159 --> 01:15:59.119
yet and that you are meant to do something that

01:15:59.119 --> 01:16:01.600
you haven't done yet. That thing that drives

01:16:01.600 --> 01:16:06.659
people, I think 90 % of humans don't have that.

01:16:06.760 --> 01:16:09.500
They don't have that one thing that pushes you

01:16:09.500 --> 01:16:13.119
forward. I'll tell you, it never went away. I

01:16:13.119 --> 01:16:17.359
went 20 years and always needed it. I tried to

01:16:17.359 --> 01:16:22.319
start a record label and the local shit. I also,

01:16:22.380 --> 01:16:25.239
I didn't start doing stand -up until pretty recently.

01:16:25.239 --> 01:16:26.859
And it's like, okay, well, I don't necessarily

01:16:26.859 --> 01:16:29.159
care what my kid thinks of what I say on stage

01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:31.020
anymore. Yeah. Or something like that, you know.

01:16:32.100 --> 01:16:37.159
But I knew the whole time, I was like, I had

01:16:37.159 --> 01:16:39.439
to fail a lot to find the thing that worked.

01:16:39.479 --> 01:16:41.319
And I think I'm finding the thing that works.

01:16:41.359 --> 01:16:45.680
But I always knew that, and I get what he meant

01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:49.020
by more than. Yeah. More than in the sense of

01:16:49.020 --> 01:16:53.199
just, I'm not done yet. Yeah. It was very much,

01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:56.500
I need, I'm meant to do more than this. And I

01:16:56.500 --> 01:16:59.399
guess I'm just using that as a springboard for

01:16:59.399 --> 01:17:02.239
talking about your question where I'm like, I

01:17:02.239 --> 01:17:03.920
don't want to say that I felt like I wanted to,

01:17:03.979 --> 01:17:05.899
and I think parenting is a really good example.

01:17:05.899 --> 01:17:08.500
Like I never was like, I want to do something

01:17:08.500 --> 01:17:11.460
bigger than raising my kid. Yeah. And I don't

01:17:11.460 --> 01:17:13.939
think that he probably wouldn't have viewed it

01:17:13.939 --> 01:17:16.939
that way either. I understand. But I always felt

01:17:16.939 --> 01:17:20.220
like I was more. Yeah. Like something else. Yes.

01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:25.199
Something's coming. See, I never felt it. That's

01:17:25.199 --> 01:17:27.239
why I think it fascinates me so much, is that

01:17:27.239 --> 01:17:31.600
I never had a truth, like a solid, I feel like

01:17:31.600 --> 01:17:33.979
I'm going to be this person. I feel like I'm

01:17:33.979 --> 01:17:35.619
headed in this direction. This is where I need

01:17:35.619 --> 01:17:37.979
to go. So I never had a direction. I just kind

01:17:37.979 --> 01:17:40.640
of luckily jumped from one thing to the next

01:17:40.640 --> 01:17:42.659
and happened to fall into the right place all

01:17:42.659 --> 01:17:44.739
the time. I've always been super, super lucky

01:17:44.739 --> 01:17:48.039
that way. But I think what Jason said that night,

01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:52.109
that's all we know. Yeah. We don't know who that

01:17:52.109 --> 01:17:55.270
person is going to be or whatever it is, but

01:17:55.270 --> 01:17:58.470
I think that we do know there's more. There's

01:17:58.470 --> 01:18:01.430
something else. There's something more for me.

01:18:01.630 --> 01:18:06.869
Yeah. That's just such a fascinating idea that

01:18:06.869 --> 01:18:09.069
some people can have it and some people don't.

01:18:09.590 --> 01:18:11.949
Well, I wonder if it just means that you've already

01:18:11.949 --> 01:18:15.270
found your groove, man. I don't know if it's

01:18:15.270 --> 01:18:17.409
just I never really paid attention. I mean...

01:18:18.680 --> 01:18:21.000
I consider myself one of the luckiest people

01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:25.260
in the world. I really do. Me too. When people

01:18:25.260 --> 01:18:28.840
say that you're really lucky, I'm like, perpetually.

01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:32.199
I'm perpetually lucky. That's one of the reasons

01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:33.680
I was wondering about this, because I didn't

01:18:33.680 --> 01:18:38.380
really do anything to make myself anything special.

01:18:38.600 --> 01:18:41.460
I never did anything. I was just who I am, and

01:18:41.460 --> 01:18:44.159
I just fall into these places. Patterson put

01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:46.579
my name in a song, and that made... People know

01:18:46.579 --> 01:18:49.619
who I was. I answered the email for them, and

01:18:49.619 --> 01:18:53.300
people knew who I was. It wasn't anything that

01:18:53.300 --> 01:18:56.100
I actually tried to do or did. I just kind of

01:18:56.100 --> 01:18:57.979
fell into these places. It's like with learning

01:18:57.979 --> 01:19:00.640
Japanese. I started learning Japanese. Immediately,

01:19:00.760 --> 01:19:03.579
I met three Japanese people who are great friends

01:19:03.579 --> 01:19:05.319
of mine now, and they helped me teach Japanese.

01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:07.640
So things like that, I just fall into it. I fall

01:19:07.640 --> 01:19:10.300
into it every single time. It's kind of just

01:19:10.300 --> 01:19:13.359
luck. What I would argue, though, is that you

01:19:13.359 --> 01:19:16.430
know what you want, and you go get it. I didn't

01:19:16.430 --> 01:19:19.609
do anything. It just falls into my lap. But you

01:19:19.609 --> 01:19:23.109
did. I had a lap. That's what I did. I mean,

01:19:23.109 --> 01:19:25.890
that's fine. And Chris sat in it in a dream.

01:19:26.189 --> 01:19:30.149
Yeah. And he told you to stay on a path. Did.

01:19:31.170 --> 01:19:33.590
But you also... Well, I followed the path that

01:19:33.590 --> 01:19:35.630
Patterson was... But you didn't know what path

01:19:35.630 --> 01:19:38.010
it was. He just said follow the path. I just

01:19:38.010 --> 01:19:40.550
knew that I was going to promote my friend's

01:19:40.550 --> 01:19:43.670
music as long as it was good. It was just...

01:19:43.789 --> 01:19:47.350
your instinct yeah fans fans and you're this

01:19:47.350 --> 01:19:49.770
way because when you love something you want

01:19:49.770 --> 01:19:51.710
to share it with fucking everybody you want everybody

01:19:51.710 --> 01:19:54.689
you have to it's almost it's so evangelical it

01:19:54.689 --> 01:19:57.510
really is it's almost like you have to sit them

01:19:57.510 --> 01:19:59.649
down and show them pictures and show them video

01:19:59.649 --> 01:20:01.670
and show them make them listen make them listen

01:20:01.670 --> 01:20:03.750
oh my new tube my new tube believe me because

01:20:03.750 --> 01:20:06.149
i go through obsessions and right now like k

01:20:06.149 --> 01:20:08.109
-pop they're just like what the fuck years ago

01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:10.939
It was heavy metal, Japanese heavy metal. And

01:20:10.939 --> 01:20:12.560
so it's just like, it switches all the time.

01:20:12.640 --> 01:20:14.359
So they never know what to expect from me. But

01:20:14.359 --> 01:20:16.920
yeah, just the fact that when something inspires

01:20:16.920 --> 01:20:19.300
you so much that you have to sit down and tell

01:20:19.300 --> 01:20:22.300
people about it, that's what's great. That's

01:20:22.300 --> 01:20:25.119
all I did. That's all I've ever done is just

01:20:25.119 --> 01:20:27.760
sit people down and be like, listen to this shit.

01:20:28.060 --> 01:20:32.560
It's great. And that's a beautiful thing. That's

01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:34.399
a connector, right? I mean, that's somebody who

01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:39.020
does those. I think that you're like, saying

01:20:39.020 --> 01:20:41.319
that you didn't do anything while saying all

01:20:41.319 --> 01:20:44.239
these things that you did. Just because I think

01:20:44.239 --> 01:20:46.939
the difference is that it was more like instinct

01:20:46.939 --> 01:20:52.119
and impulse led you well. Yeah. And maybe you

01:20:52.119 --> 01:20:53.939
weren't like, okay, I'm going to intentionally

01:20:53.939 --> 01:20:56.680
do all these things. Yeah. But you just were

01:20:56.680 --> 01:20:59.520
you. Yeah. I mean, when I first made their website,

01:20:59.619 --> 01:21:01.340
I didn't know that a website would do anything.

01:21:01.539 --> 01:21:03.479
You know, I just thought this is something I

01:21:03.479 --> 01:21:06.409
can do. Yeah. It was really just. This is something

01:21:06.409 --> 01:21:08.630
I can do. I'm going to do it. And maybe it'll

01:21:08.630 --> 01:21:13.010
help. Yeah. Maybe so. You see what I mean? Yeah.

01:21:13.029 --> 01:21:16.210
I'm just like, well, you just took this knowledge

01:21:16.210 --> 01:21:19.869
that you had and you did this thing. And in a

01:21:19.869 --> 01:21:23.869
way, you predicted the future. I like that idea.

01:21:25.489 --> 01:21:30.229
I really like being ahead of the curve on top

01:21:30.229 --> 01:21:33.279
of things, if I can, for them. Not necessarily

01:21:33.279 --> 01:21:35.800
for me, but for them. I want them to be, you

01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:40.020
know, on top of shit. I want them to be on everybody's

01:21:40.020 --> 01:21:41.880
mind because they're so good. They should be.

01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:46.380
They can teach you. The lyrics can make you understand

01:21:46.380 --> 01:21:49.500
things that you may not understand. They're the

01:21:49.500 --> 01:21:53.579
most literary band. It's really insane. That

01:21:53.579 --> 01:21:57.840
I've ever encountered. There are others comparable,

01:21:58.100 --> 01:22:01.060
but nobody does it like them. No, I mean, they're

01:22:01.060 --> 01:22:03.760
just... The stories that they're able to pack

01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:06.779
into three minutes. The way they say it. Especially

01:22:06.779 --> 01:22:09.659
Cooley. Well, Patterson, too. They're both. Jason,

01:22:09.840 --> 01:22:12.000
too. I mean, all of them. Oh, yeah. And I still

01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:14.680
don't really separate them. Yeah. People talk,

01:22:14.739 --> 01:22:16.479
and that's... Part of it, too, is like, yeah,

01:22:16.500 --> 01:22:19.060
Jason's doing, he's solo, but he's still part

01:22:19.060 --> 01:22:21.640
of the same thing. I think he thinks that way,

01:22:21.640 --> 01:22:25.239
too, sometimes. He still has that. Especially

01:22:25.239 --> 01:22:27.079
now that, like, all the water's, because you

01:22:27.079 --> 01:22:29.720
were at Shoals Fest a couple years ago. Oh, yeah.

01:22:29.800 --> 01:22:33.460
With the re -seeing Slobberbone. See, Jason did

01:22:33.460 --> 01:22:35.460
this to me on purpose. I know he did, because

01:22:35.460 --> 01:22:37.359
Slobberbone, Centromantic, my two favorite bands,

01:22:37.600 --> 01:22:42.260
truckers. Third favorite band. I say that, but

01:22:42.260 --> 01:22:44.340
you know what I mean. They're all on the same

01:22:44.340 --> 01:22:46.600
level, really. But Slaw Ruins, The Dramatics.

01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:49.800
I love that. So when Jason had announced all

01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:51.880
those guys, I was like, what are you doing to

01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:53.760
me? What are you doing? And he's like, they're

01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:56.600
my favorite bands too. What can I say? So yeah,

01:22:56.680 --> 01:23:00.979
it was incredible. I love him for that. October?

01:23:01.060 --> 01:23:03.060
I want to. You know, my stepdad, Steve Trash,

01:23:03.119 --> 01:23:04.500
who started this whole thing, he's actually,

01:23:04.539 --> 01:23:06.859
like, the emcee this year. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah.

01:23:07.060 --> 01:23:09.239
Or not. I mean, I know he's doing all through

01:23:09.239 --> 01:23:11.840
it, but yeah. It's so crazy that everything's

01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:16.079
still in that one little space that he got pulled

01:23:16.079 --> 01:23:18.560
back in, and he was there the first time I met

01:23:18.560 --> 01:23:23.880
them. It's a wild ride. So, I don't know that

01:23:23.880 --> 01:23:26.340
this story has an ending, so I don't know, like,

01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:29.779
where it ended. I don't either. But... What I

01:23:29.779 --> 01:23:34.979
will ask is, what do you think people need to

01:23:34.979 --> 01:23:37.920
do, other than bands having their own website,

01:23:38.039 --> 01:23:41.119
which I think is like, I was like, oh, yeah,

01:23:41.199 --> 01:23:43.460
that's so important and something that I'm just

01:23:43.460 --> 01:23:45.140
taking for granted that most of my bands have

01:23:45.140 --> 01:23:46.439
their own website. So many don't. It's crazy.

01:23:46.819 --> 01:23:50.680
But what do you think the future of the internet

01:23:50.680 --> 01:23:53.439
is going to look like and what can we do to...

01:23:54.190 --> 01:23:58.750
Stop some of this AI slop. Stop this snake eating

01:23:58.750 --> 01:24:03.890
its own tail. Yeah. Support real journalism.

01:24:04.489 --> 01:24:09.569
Support real news if you can. Stuff like that.

01:24:09.789 --> 01:24:12.810
Try to go to websites instead of social media

01:24:12.810 --> 01:24:15.130
if you need information. That kind of stuff.

01:24:15.689 --> 01:24:18.130
I don't think there's anything we can do because

01:24:18.130 --> 01:24:20.930
billionaires. That's all you have to say, really.

01:24:21.010 --> 01:24:23.149
Because billionaires, we're going to get fucked

01:24:23.149 --> 01:24:25.729
one way or another. It's so weird that this podcast

01:24:25.729 --> 01:24:28.390
isn't about that, but it seems to come up every

01:24:28.390 --> 01:24:32.710
episode. There's always been an underground,

01:24:32.970 --> 01:24:35.529
right? There's always been, even when the billionaires

01:24:35.529 --> 01:24:38.329
are in control, even when everything is locked

01:24:38.329 --> 01:24:40.229
down, there's always an underground. And you

01:24:40.229 --> 01:24:42.069
just stay with the underground, figure out where

01:24:42.069 --> 01:24:45.680
it's at, chase it, promote it, help it. become

01:24:45.680 --> 01:24:49.199
bigger and give it more access to people that's

01:24:49.199 --> 01:24:51.960
what needs to happen because otherwise everything's

01:24:51.960 --> 01:24:54.859
just going to be corporate run corporate news

01:24:54.859 --> 01:24:56.659
what they want you to believe is what you're

01:24:56.659 --> 01:24:59.439
going to see that's all you're going to see and

01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:00.720
they're going to hide it as much as they can

01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:04.380
so we have to find the ways to be underground

01:25:04.380 --> 01:25:08.199
you know and that's not going to the dark web

01:25:08.199 --> 01:25:10.199
by any means or anything like that you know but

01:25:10.199 --> 01:25:12.659
just finding the places you trust unless you

01:25:12.659 --> 01:25:16.310
need drugs Somebody killed. And when I say drugs,

01:25:16.369 --> 01:25:18.649
I just mean like insulin. I don't mean... Sure.

01:25:19.050 --> 01:25:21.369
That's right. You can just get it cheaper there.

01:25:21.609 --> 01:25:25.529
It's much better. Getting it off Temu, the fucking

01:25:25.529 --> 01:25:29.689
Chinese. So I have a feeling there's not a lot

01:25:29.689 --> 01:25:32.329
of people that listen to my podcast that don't

01:25:32.329 --> 01:25:35.590
listen to the drive -by truckers or aren't aware

01:25:35.590 --> 01:25:39.210
of them. Yet. Which leads me to the last thing

01:25:39.210 --> 01:25:40.930
I'd like to ask you, unless you have other things

01:25:40.930 --> 01:25:47.250
you want to add here. What would you tell somebody

01:25:47.250 --> 01:25:49.989
to listen to that's never listened to them? As

01:25:49.989 --> 01:25:52.390
another super fan like me, because at the end

01:25:52.390 --> 01:25:55.970
of the day, we're just both fans of this band.

01:25:56.109 --> 01:25:58.789
Yeah, I know. It's true. It's absolutely true.

01:25:59.050 --> 01:26:01.090
Absolutely true. Just geeking out about them.

01:26:01.510 --> 01:26:05.069
And this is the hardest question for me to answer

01:26:05.069 --> 01:26:06.970
when somebody asks. Because it's really personal

01:26:06.970 --> 01:26:09.869
to the person. If I know the person likes heavy

01:26:09.869 --> 01:26:13.130
metal, I'm going to direct them towards it. That's

01:26:13.130 --> 01:26:14.989
a really good point. It's like, you know, what

01:26:14.989 --> 01:26:18.130
are they already into? It's hard to say. Just

01:26:18.130 --> 01:26:20.710
go out and listen to Dirty South or Decoration

01:26:20.710 --> 01:26:24.010
Day, and that's it. That should do it for you,

01:26:24.029 --> 01:26:26.050
but it might not. Maybe you're not that kind

01:26:26.050 --> 01:26:28.689
of person. I don't know. Yeah. I feel like the

01:26:28.689 --> 01:26:31.329
Dirty South really is, like, it runs the gamut

01:26:31.329 --> 01:26:35.289
of kind of stylistically. Yeah. I mean, it's

01:26:35.289 --> 01:26:37.050
not everything I've ever done, but, you know,

01:26:37.069 --> 01:26:39.829
there's ballads. There's fast songs. Yeah. You

01:26:39.829 --> 01:26:43.050
know, there's heavy rockers. That's right. But

01:26:43.050 --> 01:26:44.909
there's a lot, I mean, a lot of the new stuff's

01:26:44.909 --> 01:26:47.869
fantastic too. It's just, it's so hard to...

01:26:47.869 --> 01:26:50.050
This might be one of the greatest songs ever

01:26:50.050 --> 01:26:55.029
written. I know. What the fuck? They stun me

01:26:55.029 --> 01:26:57.729
to this day. I hear a new song and I'm like,

01:26:57.810 --> 01:27:01.069
how did you fucking write that? They just keep

01:27:01.069 --> 01:27:03.170
putting out great stuff. I'm happy for them.

01:27:04.189 --> 01:27:06.210
So yeah, I don't know what I would choose, but

01:27:06.210 --> 01:27:09.920
yeah. That's a personal thing. If you ask me,

01:27:09.979 --> 01:27:11.779
I'll ask you what kind of music you listen to,

01:27:11.859 --> 01:27:14.819
and then I'll tell you, I think. I have one last

01:27:14.819 --> 01:27:18.520
question. Okay. Tell me about your banana pudding,

01:27:18.659 --> 01:27:20.819
because I've made it before. You gave me the

01:27:20.819 --> 01:27:22.979
recipe like 12 years ago when I made it, and

01:27:22.979 --> 01:27:26.380
it was amazing. Just tell people about your legendary

01:27:26.380 --> 01:27:30.960
banana pudding. You know, it's so funny. It's

01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:33.579
not even a recipe that was ever put together

01:27:33.579 --> 01:27:36.310
in any kind of... I think you did. Book or anything,

01:27:36.470 --> 01:27:39.909
yeah. But it's a very standard southern banana

01:27:39.909 --> 01:27:41.750
pudding recipe. There's nothing special about

01:27:41.750 --> 01:27:43.689
it. The only thing that's special about it is

01:27:43.689 --> 01:27:46.010
the ingredients. You just have to use really

01:27:46.010 --> 01:27:47.789
good ingredients. That was what you emphasized

01:27:47.789 --> 01:27:50.750
to me when you gave me the recipe. Don't skimp

01:27:50.750 --> 01:27:53.550
out. Don't skimp out. Don't walk away when you're

01:27:53.550 --> 01:27:55.149
stirring the pudding. Don't walk away from it.

01:27:55.520 --> 01:27:57.979
That's it. I mean, it's really simple. Use the

01:27:57.979 --> 01:27:59.840
best ingredients you can find. And that worked

01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:02.180
for everything. I mean, isn't that why the truckers

01:28:02.180 --> 01:28:03.939
are great? They have the best fucking ingredients

01:28:03.939 --> 01:28:08.619
you can find. That was the whole thing. And really,

01:28:08.779 --> 01:28:11.020
the fact that it became famous is only because

01:28:11.020 --> 01:28:13.039
Patterson's grandmother used to make some so

01:28:13.039 --> 01:28:16.539
similar that he loved it. And he talks about

01:28:16.539 --> 01:28:19.920
it all the time. I just heard about it on the

01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:22.600
forums. Oh, really? Or like the Facebook group

01:28:22.600 --> 01:28:25.699
or something. I was like, well, I'm fucking,

01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:28.140
I'm going to make it. And now I've made it like

01:28:28.140 --> 01:28:30.859
three times now. Yeah, that's awesome. He asked

01:28:30.859 --> 01:28:33.300
me if they could put it in a book because they

01:28:33.300 --> 01:28:35.439
had come to the truckers asking for a recipe

01:28:35.439 --> 01:28:38.439
from, you know, something, some recipe, some

01:28:38.439 --> 01:28:41.439
rock and roll recipe book. And I was like, sure,

01:28:41.520 --> 01:28:43.539
why not? He goes, can I call it Sissy's Banana

01:28:43.539 --> 01:28:47.479
Pudding? And I was like, sure, why not? You know,

01:28:47.520 --> 01:28:49.340
that's your, it was his grandmother and he always

01:28:49.340 --> 01:28:51.569
loved it because it just. tasting just like hers

01:28:51.569 --> 01:28:54.350
so now it's in a cookbook it's in a cookbook

01:28:54.350 --> 01:28:57.390
as sissy's banana pudding but he did put you

01:28:57.390 --> 01:28:59.489
know that it was mine that was my recipe and

01:28:59.489 --> 01:29:01.869
stuff like that so that's not like and i definitely

01:29:01.869 --> 01:29:05.529
i loved sissy i only met her once she's pretty

01:29:05.529 --> 01:29:08.369
taller than me which is crazy i'm gonna find

01:29:08.369 --> 01:29:11.689
the book and i'll link it oh yeah i wish i could

01:29:11.689 --> 01:29:14.329
remember your banana pudding it's a very simple

01:29:14.329 --> 01:29:16.590
recipe and i'm very free with it it's i don't

01:29:16.590 --> 01:29:19.170
think recipes should be kept It's down on the

01:29:19.170 --> 01:29:22.510
side of the banana box. Yeah, it's basically

01:29:22.510 --> 01:29:24.989
the same thing. It's basically the same thing.

01:29:25.170 --> 01:29:27.829
That was my interview with Jen Bryant. She was

01:29:27.829 --> 01:29:30.949
kind enough afterwards to take me by, drive by

01:29:30.949 --> 01:29:34.649
Trucker's headquarters. And so I got to see where

01:29:34.649 --> 01:29:37.630
it all happens. That was pretty, pretty goddamn

01:29:37.630 --> 01:29:41.069
cool, I got to say. We just had the most fun.

01:29:41.489 --> 01:29:44.829
I hope you enjoyed listening to it. You can check

01:29:44.829 --> 01:29:47.180
out... The Drive -By Truckers on tour. They're

01:29:47.180 --> 01:29:49.659
on tour with Deer Tick and Thelma and the Sleaze

01:29:49.659 --> 01:29:53.260
right now on the Charm and Decadence tour. Jen's

01:29:53.260 --> 01:29:56.760
still running drivebytruckers .com. If I had

01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:59.460
to guess, she is the longest running webmaster

01:29:59.460 --> 01:30:05.819
in all of music. Maybe anywhere. Especially continuously.

01:30:07.439 --> 01:30:11.260
Running a website for 26 plus years is pretty

01:30:11.260 --> 01:30:15.060
crazy. Next week, we've got Mike White. He's

01:30:15.060 --> 01:30:17.899
been published internationally. He photographs

01:30:17.899 --> 01:30:21.220
all kinds of amazing artists. And he was the

01:30:21.220 --> 01:30:24.779
official photographer for AthFest this year.

01:30:25.380 --> 01:30:29.279
He also did this amazing photo collage using

01:30:29.279 --> 01:30:33.079
all sorts of photos he's taken at AthFest over

01:30:33.079 --> 01:30:37.520
the years to recreate the AthFest 2025 logo.

01:30:38.220 --> 01:30:41.180
We dive into all of that. Make sure you hit that

01:30:41.180 --> 01:30:44.300
subscribe button. I really appreciate you tuning

01:30:44.300 --> 01:30:47.260
in. Thanks to the Sloan Brothers for our theme

01:30:47.260 --> 01:30:50.619
songs. Thanks to Lee Baines for inspiring the

01:30:50.619 --> 01:30:54.579
title of this podcast. Check out both of their

01:30:54.579 --> 01:30:56.479
music. There's links in the description. This

01:30:56.479 --> 01:30:59.560
is overeducated and underemployed. Thanks for

01:30:59.560 --> 01:30:59.880
listening.