WEBVTT

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Thank you. Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed.

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I'm Fedden, and I'm here with Sony recording

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artist Ina and Elizabeth Frable, who has been

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in, like, so many amazing bands that I don't

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even know where to start. She is a music teacher,

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but Adventures of Annabelle Lynn comes to mind.

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One of her current bands is the Dolce Trio. Is

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there any others that you want to name right

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now? Because we will talk about probably a lot

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of them. But is there any others you want to

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name off the bat that you're currently playing

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with? I'm currently playing with Raising Cane.

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And then I'll sit in with Rachel Hillman on occasion.

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And if anybody needs an upright bass player and

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they give me a call, I say yes. That is awesome.

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Yeah. I play with Frank Lindemood as a duo a

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lot, too. Awesome. Ina has released... at least

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three albums, I think, or three EPs and singles

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and albums. Yeah, you've got a conglomeration

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of all of them. And she's doing a project this

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year of 25 songs for 25. That's correct. That's

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going to be like two albums in and of itself

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right there. That's what it feels like, yes.

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But I'm going to go ahead and ask both of y 'all

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the same question that I ask everybody when I

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start, and what is the first song that you remember

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loving? And go ahead and start with you, and

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then we'll... Sure thing. What is the first song

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that I remember loving early into my childhood?

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My mom would always sing, I've got sunshine on

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a cloudy day when it's cold outside. And I don't

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know why for the life of me, because I've heard

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it for all my life. I can't remember the name

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of the songs of temptation. Yeah, so that's probably

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mine. It's because it's always been in the household.

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Oh, yeah? So your mom would sing it to you a

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lot? Yes, yes. She's not very musical, but she's

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passionate. I would get her singing voice all

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the time. She would sing that to me as she was

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walking out the room. She'd put me down for a

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nap and try to lull me to sleep to remind me

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that I was being put down for a nap. So that's

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what I remember her most from. And what about

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you, Elizabeth? As you were answering that question,

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I'm thinking back. There are so many songs that...

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crossed through my life growing up with church

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music and then going to lots of bluegrass music

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festivals with my parents. It was constant. music

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in my life. But I think that one of the most

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impactful early moments that I had was my mom

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took me to go see Bonnie Raitt. And it was the

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first real concert. It wasn't a bluegrass festival,

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like we bought tickets, we had seats, we had

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to sit in the seats the whole time. But it was

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Bonnie Raitt and Angel from Montgomery just rang

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out. And then my mom and I were sitting there

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and she's we should learn this song and perform

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it. And so she got us a gig at this really amazing

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theater in downtown Clearwater. And so within

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a couple of weeks, we were performing it on stage.

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And it was this really important kind of pivotal

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moment for me. It was my first gig. I think I

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got paid like $10 to stand up and sing Angel

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from Montgomery with my mom. And I played the

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upright bass for that. But that was, I didn't

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realize it was a John Prine song until much later.

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I always thought it was a Bonnie Wright song.

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She did. She did. But John Prine. is like one

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of my favorite songwriters of all time. I appreciate

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that you recognize, giving him a little bit of

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credit. A little. She totally did own that song

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though. When did you, and I'll stick with you

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for just a second, Elizabeth. When did you first

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pick up an instrument then? I believe it was

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a violin when I was in first grade. And you won't

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see me playing it out in public at all, but I

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still. Own my violin. Yes, I play it by myself.

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graded to a bass fiddle, to a big upright bass

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in second grade and stood up on a milk crate

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with some of my mom's friends. We had a big jam

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circle and there was a woman that stood next

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to me and she did all the fretting. She held

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down all the strings and just told me which ones

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to pluck. And so that was my first experience

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playing an instrument with people. The violin

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hurt my ears and I gave it up pretty fast because

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I sounded so terrible. I knew that when I was

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in first grade. I was like, this isn't how it's

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supposed to sound. You know it's bad when you've

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got to put in earplugs to listen to yourself

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play. Even in first grade, you knew. Yeah, yep.

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Were you raised in a really musical household?

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I would say... Yes and no. Both my parents love

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music, but neither of them were professional

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musicians. My dad was in our church choir, so

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I'd go to church choir with him a lot. But most

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of the music that was in our household was them

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supporting me, doing whatever I was doing with

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music. We had a piano in our house growing up.

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So to piggyback off of what you were saying,

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I started music really young as well. We had

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this piano in our house and I would just, before

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my head could even reach above the piano, I was

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just like fiddling around with the sounds and

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I learned how to play piano by ear at a really

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young age and it wasn't until I think middle

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school, yes, that I got into band and everything.

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picked up the French horn and sounded probably

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six times as awful as your violin. We had practicing

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hours in the house when they were like, hey,

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you can blow up the piece in our house from this

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time to this time exactly. But yeah, I would

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say the music in the house was supported by my

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parents a lot. Yeah. Were they listeners or concert

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goers at all? Yeah, absolutely. Definitely listeners.

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Not as many concerts, I would say. I think it's

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so cool your mom brought you out to so many gigs.

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gigs but we had a band shell actually by this

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lake that I grew up by and we would go to concerts

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there sometimes but like the big ones and stuff

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not so much that's a great segue into the next

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thing I really like to ask people is what is

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your first what was your first concert And you

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can go ahead. OK, on the first concert. Yeah,

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back and forth is great. The first concert that

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I remember going to very clearly was a the Trans

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-Siberian Orchestra had come to town when I was

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in middle school. And this was like one of my

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favorite bands. My dad and I would always listen

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to their music, specifically their Christmas

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album in the car. So that was the first one that

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I remember, like a big concert. Nice. And that's

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such an intense listening experience. Dude, it

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was so cool. How old were you? I think I was

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like... Maybe 11 or 12. One of those ages where

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the lights are going on and all of a sudden you're

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tinkering on the piano and going, oh, that wrong

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note is actually just right. I feel like all

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parents take their kids to a show like that around

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11 or 12, especially if they don't have great

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insurance because it's like a good epilepsy test.

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That's funny because my dad actually has epilepsy.

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The concert did nothing though, so we were good.

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It was really great. Exactly. The warnings on

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everything. right no you i'm if you're familiar

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with their music and their shows they do so many

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strobe lights so i was thinking about it going

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i was like i wonder if this is gonna turn into

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an emergency but i didn't it was just an experience

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it was cool it really is like one of the most

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like high level production shows out there absolutely

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yeah and it loud too super and it was so cool

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also to see the orchestra perform in such a different

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way than is classically trained or classically

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taught rather. So I thought that was so cool.

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They just turned it into this experience that

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you would have never assumed would have been

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in a single room together, if that makes sense.

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Yeah, amazing. I think that I probably was going

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to live music shows from what my parents have

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told me. Like I was in diapers and they would

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lay out the blankets at the music festivals and

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I'd be like... smearing ice cream all over my

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face and eating dirt. And there was like Bill

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Monroe and John Hartford on stage behind me in

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the backdrop. There was like a lot of those legends

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of bluegrass music were playing these festivals

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around Florida. Tony Rice and Emmylou Harris,

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all these people, they'll come up in conversation

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and my mom's, yeah, we took you to that show.

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And I'm like, well, what? Okay. I was there and

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I don't remember, but that's awesome. I remember.

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Jerry Douglas playing back in the early 90s before

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he came became like this legendary the masterful

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dobro player Bela Fleck and a lot of these really

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huge titans oh I met Alison Krauss when I was

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like in third grade I walked up to her table

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after the show and I was like hi and the uncomfortable

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pause just lasted way too long and then I said

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you look just like my aunt and I really like

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your music And then I ran away. But yeah, going

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to shows has just always been part of my family's

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rotation. Every season is this festival or that

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festival. And I'm just so grateful for that experience

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and being able to pass that on to my kids because

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they're now 17 and 22. And I did the same thing.

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I took them to all these shows and now they're

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listening. I was riding around with my son the

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other day and he was playing like his latest

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Spotify playlist that he's put together. And

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he was playing all these. people that we've seen

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at festivals at spirit of the swanee actually

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he's at bonnaroo right now so he's eclipsed my

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concert going i'm gonna really get that list

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of artists from him yeah that is awesome one

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thing i've realized lately is sometimes as a

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performer you're gonna end up missing the shows

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you really want to be so true yeah yeah it's

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bittersweet i when wilco came here wilco and

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laxahatchee i had a gig And I couldn't be there,

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but everybody was like, oh, that's the best show

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that happened this year. I was like, dang it.

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Don't tell me that. I've seen Wilco four times.

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Uh -huh. That was my least favorite Wilco show.

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Oh, all right. It was still great. It wasn't

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my favorite show this year. Thank you. It wasn't

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my favorite show in this city either. Now we

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feel better. Totally. We didn't even miss the

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best one. That's right. It was a great show.

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I think I went to three other shows that month

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that I would say were just as good, if not better.

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And I'm pretty sure you were at least a couple

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of them. Uh -huh. Okay, good. I got to explore

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more music and more artists. Just hearing artists

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talk about all of the different people they've

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seen. I couldn't name Temptations. I knew it,

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but I couldn't name it. And I love when people

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talk about what they're interested in, especially

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when it comes to artists. I got my homework to

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do. I'm going to be following up with you both

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about a list of musicians, especially Florida

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-based. One thing I will say, though, that's

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come up. frequently with the artists that i've

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talked to is some artists want to take it all

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in include it all some of them when they go into

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creative mode they go into a vacuum and they're

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like okay everything that i've heard up until

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now can be an influence but nothing that nothing

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can influence what i'm doing currently and i

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don't think there's a right or wrong way to do

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it is i guess what i'm getting at Having a lot,

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having an encyclopedic knowledge of music means

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a whole lot. That usually is the sign of somebody

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that doesn't create a lot of music, like this

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guy over here. Nobody's naming names. I don't

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know a lot of musicians that are also, like,

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really, like, I know a bunch of names of songs,

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and sure, to an extent, but it's always their

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fans that know. All the shit. I'll go and talk

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to some of my favorite artists and know more

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about their own songs sometimes than they do.

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I remember one time I texted Jay Gonzalez. I

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was like, this is the 20th anniversary of the

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Dirty South. But you probably already knew that.

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And he was like, no, I didn't. News to me. Because

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we've been friendly for a long time. But I think

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that encompasses what I'm talking about. Yeah,

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absolutely. We're the music nerds are the ones

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that keep track of that. stuff. You had the memory,

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you had this, you knew what song you were talking

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about. 100%. The nerd knew the name. No, but

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I think I am trying to, especially with this

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25 for 2025 project, expand past, I think, my

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comfort zone. Because you're absolutely right.

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I feel when you find your groove with music,

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especially as a creative and an artist, it's

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really easy to want to block everything out.

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And to an extent, for me, I know it's been necessary

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to really form my own craft. But now I'm trying

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to write outside of my comfort zone and explore

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a little bit more. And so having those names

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would be... awesome what would you call your

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comfort zone sure so i would say r &b and folk

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to an extent would be where i've written in the

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most it's what's come easiest to me and where

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i've yeah i would like almost like an india harry

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yeah you got it i love her music yes absolutely

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Some Adele, so some pop in there. Billie Eilish.

00:13:53.590 --> 00:13:55.470
Yeah, Andy Arie. I'm so glad you said her name.

00:13:55.490 --> 00:13:57.210
I haven't thought about her music in a hot minute.

00:13:57.649 --> 00:14:01.590
Yeah. What's your comfort zone? Go ahead and

00:14:01.590 --> 00:14:02.990
say whatever you were going to say. I'm sorry.

00:14:03.169 --> 00:14:07.450
I was going to follow up and say there have been

00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:09.529
a lot of different chapters in my musical life,

00:14:09.649 --> 00:14:13.889
and I think that there's so much. Before we started,

00:14:13.929 --> 00:14:18.080
we were talking about how There's just so much

00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.120
demand for digital content. When you're an independent

00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.279
artist, you are managing all of your bookings,

00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.120
all of your social media, and then there's this

00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.340
whole thing that you have to do as a musician,

00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:35.240
which is to play and sing and line up, make sure

00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.539
your band is, everybody is happy and taken care

00:14:38.539 --> 00:14:41.539
of and shows up and gets paid. So there's so

00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:45.320
many different hats that we wear. And a lot of

00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:47.740
times my listening is just whatever pops up on

00:14:47.740 --> 00:14:50.720
my Spotify queue as I'm driving to the gigs or

00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.159
driving to practice. But I don't have a lot of

00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.820
time to be a connoisseur when I'm because I teach

00:14:56.820 --> 00:15:00.059
full time. I teach music full time. And so my

00:15:00.059 --> 00:15:02.840
hours are so limited. And when I'm sometimes

00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:04.860
when I'm listening in the car, I'm listening

00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:07.179
to practice. I'm listening to learn a vocal part

00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:09.700
or just feel out different ways that other artists

00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:12.639
have covered a song if it's a cover. But I also

00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:16.679
notice that there's a lot of tension for me between...

00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:20.440
playing out if I'm booking a lot of shows and

00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:23.279
I'm performing a lot then I don't get as much

00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:25.899
time to write and to create and so this summer

00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:29.379
I was very intentional to take most of June off

00:15:29.379 --> 00:15:31.960
I'm not working I've only got three gigs this

00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:35.460
month and I am waking up early I'm going to bed

00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:37.500
early I'm taking care of myself so that I can

00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.919
write so that I can create so I'm really digging

00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:44.480
in and COVID was really like the ultimate stop

00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.190
to everything because I was going really hard

00:15:47.190 --> 00:15:49.129
for a long time I'd written a lot of music and

00:15:49.129 --> 00:15:54.169
toured from like 2016 to 2019 extensively on

00:15:54.169 --> 00:15:56.129
the weekends in the summer every chance that

00:15:56.129 --> 00:15:59.509
I could and then 2020 rolled around and all of

00:15:59.509 --> 00:16:02.210
a sudden everything froze and I had time to write

00:16:02.210 --> 00:16:03.970
again and it was the first time that I realized

00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:09.000
that dissonance had kind of left me feeling empty.

00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:11.460
And we had recorded my band at the time, Adventures

00:16:11.460 --> 00:16:14.159
of Annabelle Lynn had released two albums, and

00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.720
I didn't have a whole lot more material to start

00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.659
contributing to a third album. It was a nice

00:16:19.659 --> 00:16:21.759
opportunity to step back and go, okay, there's

00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.460
only so many hours in the day. My energy needs

00:16:24.460 --> 00:16:27.399
to, I need to be wise about how I use my energy

00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:31.279
and understand the ebb and flow of it all. Oh,

00:16:31.299 --> 00:16:33.519
that's a great point. That's a really good point.

00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:38.850
Is everything okay? Checking on the baby. As

00:16:38.850 --> 00:16:43.090
much as that stuff can distract from the creative

00:16:43.090 --> 00:16:47.269
process sometimes, how hard is it to give over

00:16:47.269 --> 00:16:50.889
control? And I'll start with you as someone who's

00:16:50.889 --> 00:16:57.789
signed with a major label. And with that comes

00:16:57.789 --> 00:17:02.029
a loss of control of certain things. How hard

00:17:02.029 --> 00:17:05.220
was it for you to give that control up? Absolutely.

00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:06.940
Actually, I'm really glad that you asked that

00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:08.319
because that's something that I've been emotionally

00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:12.740
navigating for myself. There's so much more that

00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:15.200
goes, like Elizabeth was talking about, there's

00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.099
so much more that goes into music than just the

00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:19.759
song, especially when it's being packaged for

00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:23.200
mass distribution. And so you're thinking about

00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:25.160
the visuals, you're thinking about would I actually

00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:27.339
be comfortable performing what I'm singing? And

00:17:27.339 --> 00:17:29.519
so the way I went into the distribution deal

00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:33.380
was I wanted to create five new songs to... just

00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:36.160
try writing outside of my comfort zone, try leaning

00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:38.440
into what was comfortable as well. So all five

00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.539
of these songs were totally new and they picked

00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:46.420
a song that for me was the most probably sexual

00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:49.019
and vulnerable song, to be honest with you. And

00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:51.259
I was really excited to write all these things,

00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:53.599
but then that's to answer your question where

00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.859
the control aspect came in. I was thinking, okay,

00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:59.539
once I put this forward, how much control will

00:17:59.539 --> 00:18:02.819
I actually have over the image? over how it's

00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:05.720
portrayed and i think it's been a journey for

00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:10.339
sure in learning to figure out my non -negotiables

00:18:10.339 --> 00:18:14.279
for what i want for my image but also a journey

00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.420
to let go and decide okay it's okay to step into

00:18:17.420 --> 00:18:20.019
this new era as long as i know myself well enough

00:18:20.019 --> 00:18:23.440
that nothing's going to shake me to the core

00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:28.799
in proceeding with this opportunity so when you

00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:33.640
put a song out there versus giving it to a label,

00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:37.640
do you worry about how it's interpreted? In a

00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:40.180
way, yes. So this is my first time. The distribution

00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:44.519
deal. with Sony and through IGA Talent Management

00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:47.200
as a single distribution deal. And so this is

00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:49.380
my first time interfacing with it. It's the only

00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.880
one that I'm currently working on towards major

00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.000
distribution. I'm really lucky to work with people

00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.099
at IGA Talent Management that are advocating

00:18:58.099 --> 00:19:00.480
for my voice as well as my production team. So

00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:02.880
that's also been very helpful. But you do let

00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.529
go of a fair amount of control. But I guess to

00:19:06.529 --> 00:19:09.569
clarify my question, I feel like when you release

00:19:09.569 --> 00:19:12.710
a song, go with the interpretation of it. Yeah,

00:19:12.710 --> 00:19:15.769
that's... And then I guess that's what I'm wondering

00:19:15.769 --> 00:19:20.009
is like how releasing a song to the public and

00:19:20.009 --> 00:19:23.289
releasing the, like the, and I don't mean like

00:19:23.289 --> 00:19:25.910
the critical interpretation, but like the what

00:19:25.910 --> 00:19:28.710
does it mean interpretation, right? So it's like...

00:19:29.019 --> 00:19:31.400
you can mean something when you write a song

00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:33.980
and then you can go out to somebody and it means

00:19:33.980 --> 00:19:36.059
something totally else something else that you

00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:39.200
didn't ever intend and might even disagree with

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:43.079
but how does that compare to sending it to a

00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:48.240
label that then also can say those same things

00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.599
and maybe also control like what gets put on

00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.660
the record or not sure so i think that when I

00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:58.500
first put out my first EP I was nervous about

00:19:58.500 --> 00:20:01.940
the songs being misunderstood I suppose in a

00:20:01.940 --> 00:20:04.180
way because I was so emotionally attached to

00:20:04.180 --> 00:20:06.480
it but I had several conversations and I still

00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:08.759
do even with some close friends to this day before

00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.160
releasing music that just celebrates the joy

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.500
and the excitement behind the fact that your

00:20:14.500 --> 00:20:16.500
song could be misinterpreted I think one of the

00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:18.400
best examples is I've had people come up to me

00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:20.500
after concerts and just tell me this is how your

00:20:20.500 --> 00:20:23.460
song impacted me and I'm thinking to myself geez

00:20:23.460 --> 00:20:25.559
I wasn't even thinking about that when I wrote

00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.740
it. But it's so amazing that it was able to resonate

00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:31.680
with you in that way. I think over time, like

00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:33.599
initially, when I first started writing music,

00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:38.099
it was more so for me. And now I've been able

00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:42.500
to, I think, mature and also grow in a way where

00:20:42.500 --> 00:20:44.940
I'm excited about how people can find themselves

00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:47.200
in my music, regardless of the interpretation.

00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.299
And I think the switch between doing that with

00:20:50.299 --> 00:20:53.390
self distribution versus mass label distribution

00:20:53.390 --> 00:20:58.210
is I think my mind tends to go towards what could

00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:01.349
negatively happen in the hands of a label just

00:21:01.349 --> 00:21:03.130
because you we've all heard the stories about

00:21:03.130 --> 00:21:05.690
how sometimes major labels can take advantage

00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:08.809
of artists x y and z or can portray artists in

00:21:08.809 --> 00:21:10.289
a way that doesn't actually align with what they

00:21:10.289 --> 00:21:14.859
want and yeah I think That journey has been up

00:21:14.859 --> 00:21:17.400
and down for me, but it's definitely taught me

00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.779
to go into any room with a certainty of who I

00:21:20.779 --> 00:21:23.180
am and what I want from the music, and then also

00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:25.279
to balance that with letting go and just allowing

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:28.380
things to be as they are. I definitely know what

00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:29.740
you're talking about when it comes to the major

00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:32.039
label story. I had some friends that were signed

00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:35.160
to Elektra Records in the early 2000s, and they

00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.279
ended up actually putting an album, their next

00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.680
album out. And I remember going to the first

00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.630
show after they... We're no longer on Elektra

00:21:42.630 --> 00:21:45.690
Records. And I made this old black, this old,

00:21:45.769 --> 00:21:47.529
like, t -shirt. It was just, like, a white t

00:21:47.529 --> 00:21:50.609
-shirt and, like, Sharpie. And I had written

00:21:50.609 --> 00:21:55.650
Neglectia Records. Oh, my God. And they loved

00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:57.809
that. They thought that was awesome. I took a

00:21:57.809 --> 00:21:59.390
photo from the stage. Look at this man wearing

00:21:59.390 --> 00:22:02.369
the shirt. And then six months later, I think,

00:22:02.390 --> 00:22:05.769
oh, that's when the Wea merger happened. And,

00:22:05.789 --> 00:22:07.970
like, Warner, Elektra, and Atlantic all merged

00:22:07.970 --> 00:22:12.369
into Wea. For 24 hours, it was like 5 ,000 bands

00:22:12.369 --> 00:22:14.509
that didn't have a home. So I'm going to ask

00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:16.710
you a slightly different version of the same

00:22:16.710 --> 00:22:19.609
question, Elizabeth. You've managed a lot of

00:22:19.609 --> 00:22:23.250
your own bands in the past. Have you found that

00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:26.750
you usually manage your bands because you feel

00:22:26.750 --> 00:22:31.190
like you have to? Or because you really want

00:22:31.190 --> 00:22:35.349
to do that part of it too? Or do you think that...

00:22:36.269 --> 00:22:39.750
You could give up that kind of, that aspect of

00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:43.109
control at some point to somebody without it

00:22:43.109 --> 00:22:46.529
feeling like you were losing part of what you've

00:22:46.529 --> 00:22:48.690
been doing for so long. Because I know that you've

00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:51.750
done a lot of your own booking and not just when

00:22:51.750 --> 00:22:54.930
you're doing solo shows, but like with the groups

00:22:54.930 --> 00:22:58.549
that you play with. And sometimes it's even probably

00:22:58.549 --> 00:23:01.069
more than that, like herding cats and things

00:23:01.069 --> 00:23:05.069
like that too. At what point do you want to be

00:23:05.069 --> 00:23:07.829
able to focus solely on the music and kind of

00:23:07.829 --> 00:23:10.309
stop doing some of that? And how much of that

00:23:10.309 --> 00:23:15.069
do you really enjoy doing? It's a spectrum, right?

00:23:15.190 --> 00:23:17.930
Sure, yeah, for sure. I think I've been in a

00:23:17.930 --> 00:23:20.250
lot of different places with it. I'll back up

00:23:20.250 --> 00:23:24.640
and say my... Growing up with my mom, who was

00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:28.460
a formidable musician in the Tampa Bay area and

00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:30.380
then went to Nashville and got a record deal,

00:23:30.539 --> 00:23:34.059
I learned so much watching the way that she managed

00:23:34.059 --> 00:23:37.630
her band and then that she managed herself. when

00:23:37.630 --> 00:23:40.349
she decided my songs are good enough to go on

00:23:40.349 --> 00:23:42.890
the country radio stations, and one of them made

00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:47.630
it to VH1. And she did amazing things by always

00:23:47.630 --> 00:23:51.589
having faith in herself and never backing down,

00:23:51.769 --> 00:23:55.130
never accepting somebody that wasn't willing

00:23:55.130 --> 00:23:57.789
to buy into what she had, because she was doing

00:23:57.789 --> 00:24:01.890
amazing work at the time. And so I learned so

00:24:01.890 --> 00:24:04.950
much from watching her in all those contexts.

00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:07.680
And so then when I... I decided that I wanted

00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.660
to start playing. I was taken on as a bass player.

00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.559
So I was like the side woman in my first couple

00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.259
of bands as an adult. And that was really great

00:24:17.259 --> 00:24:19.539
because I could learn what it took to manage

00:24:19.539 --> 00:24:21.279
a band from the people that were doing it. There

00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.039
was a band in South Florida that I was in called

00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:27.579
Surf Road Project. And Eric Alvar was the mandolin

00:24:27.579 --> 00:24:30.190
player. He's now in New York City. And he's wonderfully

00:24:30.190 --> 00:24:33.089
talented, but that was their family band. And

00:24:33.089 --> 00:24:36.609
I learned a lot about how to book in festivals

00:24:36.609 --> 00:24:39.490
and how to take a local band and start reaching

00:24:39.490 --> 00:24:42.589
for more regional opportunities. And then I moved

00:24:42.589 --> 00:24:45.650
up here and started playing with Ken and Virginia

00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:48.869
Miller. And they were really enmeshed here in

00:24:48.869 --> 00:24:51.190
the local scene. But again, I was the bass player.

00:24:51.250 --> 00:24:53.230
I was the side person. Then I became the bass

00:24:53.230 --> 00:24:55.710
player for Stranger Still and learned a whole

00:24:55.710 --> 00:24:59.339
lot from all the musicians in that band. And

00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:03.519
so in steps, in increments, I've learned from

00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.819
some really brilliant people how to manage. And

00:25:06.819 --> 00:25:11.039
so when the need arises, I just seem to have

00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:14.440
an instinct for it. That being said, it's a lot

00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.039
of extra work. Annabelle Lynn started out all

00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.619
three of us doing all various jobs, whatever

00:25:20.619 --> 00:25:24.019
we were good at. Social media was just coming

00:25:24.019 --> 00:25:27.000
online. And so we were trying to navigate this

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:29.539
new landscape together and figuring it out without

00:25:29.539 --> 00:25:32.619
the help of anybody that knew how to do it because

00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:35.920
it was brand new. So we were really creative

00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:38.720
musically, but also thinking about the graphic

00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.200
elements, the photography, what we could do with

00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.240
this trio of women and how we promoted our shows

00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.160
became visual as well as word of mouth. There's

00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.690
a really solid... feminist ideology at my core.

00:25:51.990 --> 00:25:54.849
And being able to collaborate with those women

00:25:54.849 --> 00:26:00.130
was a really huge opportunity for me as a creative

00:26:00.130 --> 00:26:02.789
and as a human being. I'd always been in bands

00:26:02.789 --> 00:26:05.549
with all these guys. And as had the other two

00:26:05.549 --> 00:26:07.670
women in that band, Catherine Bell Long, Carrie

00:26:07.670 --> 00:26:09.849
Perkins, and I collaborated. And we were like,

00:26:09.890 --> 00:26:12.529
we had so many shared experiences, but we also

00:26:12.529 --> 00:26:15.750
had so much shared knowledge. So management was

00:26:15.750 --> 00:26:19.240
a shared responsibility. And we all pulled. Every

00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.019
string, every connection, everything that we

00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:24.859
could do to push ourselves. Eventually Carrie

00:26:24.859 --> 00:26:28.980
Perkins left town and Holly Riley took her place

00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:31.480
and Jillian Canning became our graphic designer.

00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:34.359
But all these women that I've had the privilege

00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:38.319
to work with, they all have these amazing niches

00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:41.400
and connections. So it's building on that, but

00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:43.700
then also being the keeper of the spreadsheets

00:26:43.700 --> 00:26:46.359
and making sure that the transitions between

00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:49.119
band members go smoothly. managing the social

00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.619
media pages and all this stuff. So I've had to

00:26:51.619 --> 00:26:53.619
figure out a lot of that. And being a teacher,

00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:56.579
I can pull a lot of the experience that I've

00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:59.079
had working in schools and various leadership

00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.619
roles into my music life. So everything that

00:27:02.619 --> 00:27:04.819
I've been doing is kind of lockstep. Everything

00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:08.539
has worked really hand in hand. And at this point,

00:27:08.619 --> 00:27:10.839
the bluegrass band that I'm working with, Raising

00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.539
Cane, I do a lot of the managing for that, a

00:27:13.539 --> 00:27:16.140
lot of the booking. And the other band that I'm

00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:18.740
in that I play with a lot is... trio and it's

00:27:18.740 --> 00:27:22.609
a another trio of women, and all three of us

00:27:22.609 --> 00:27:26.809
are extensively connected and savvy in our own

00:27:26.809 --> 00:27:30.230
ways. And so we're all able to share the workload

00:27:30.230 --> 00:27:33.329
that comes with booking, writing sets, promoting,

00:27:33.569 --> 00:27:35.930
archiving all of our stuff. So Jillian Canning

00:27:35.930 --> 00:27:38.430
is our tech wizard. Kelly loves to do the booking.

00:27:38.670 --> 00:27:40.950
There's some gigs that I'll book, some gigs that

00:27:40.950 --> 00:27:43.430
she books, but Kelly Goddard of the New 76ers

00:27:43.430 --> 00:27:45.910
is our guitar player and other vocalist, and

00:27:45.910 --> 00:27:50.019
she does a fantastic job. When I'm tired. I wanna.

00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:54.680
That's awesome. Yeah. So both of y 'all write

00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:59.119
a lot of songs. And when I say that, I'm guessing

00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:00.779
you probably write a lot of songs that you never

00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:05.059
share with people. And I want to step, I want

00:28:05.059 --> 00:28:08.039
to go backwards again. Okay. When did you decide

00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:11.920
you, first, when did you be like, I love music?

00:28:12.380 --> 00:28:14.940
Instead of just, I love this song or this band,

00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.279
but I just love music. to being and then like

00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:21.039
when did you take that a step further and be

00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:24.740
like i want to write music i would say so in

00:28:24.740 --> 00:28:27.400
middle school i was dropped off to school pretty

00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:30.539
early and i would spend all my time in the piano

00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:34.319
rooms just trying to perfect whatever latest

00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:37.500
song i had heard and replicate it by ear and

00:28:37.500 --> 00:28:41.119
looking back on it now i'd say that's when I

00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:43.400
knew without knowing if that makes sense because

00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:45.839
it was where I was putting the most time in,

00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:49.900
in terms of my love for music. And then when

00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:52.359
I took that a step further, like I had shared,

00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.440
my family was really supportive of my music,

00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.859
putting me into choirs and getting me theater

00:28:56.859 --> 00:29:00.259
opportunities. And that translated when I got

00:29:00.259 --> 00:29:03.480
into high school, doing more professional theater.

00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:05.420
And then into college, I directed the gospel

00:29:05.420 --> 00:29:08.099
choir for our university. But I would say it

00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:11.609
wasn't until... After college, a few years that

00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:14.230
I had graduated and just chilled out, I wasn't

00:29:14.230 --> 00:29:16.849
doing music for anybody else. It was more just,

00:29:16.930 --> 00:29:20.170
what do I want to say? And I had written music

00:29:20.170 --> 00:29:24.390
when I was younger. My brother passed in 2010,

00:29:24.549 --> 00:29:27.109
and I remember I wrote a song very shortly after

00:29:27.109 --> 00:29:32.130
that. I was 12 at the time, but that was probably

00:29:32.130 --> 00:29:35.970
the first song. I clearly remember writing, but

00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:38.559
all of... the emotions and stuff that have come

00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.000
with a lot of those stories behind the songs

00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.059
I put out now were really written after I graduated

00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:46.480
college. When we were talking about when I had

00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.980
a moment of pause, that's like the same pause

00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:50.900
that I think COVID gave a lot of people. It just,

00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.819
okay, I don't have school. I'm not working as

00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:57.400
much. And so what do I want to say? So do you

00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:01.220
think that you... were really a lot more comfortable

00:30:01.220 --> 00:30:03.980
performing like pieces of music by other people

00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:07.839
growing up and then you became more of I want

00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.599
to write my own songs oh yes I would for sure

00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:14.319
were you writing songs and not sharing them with

00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:16.339
people though before that yes when you were younger

00:30:16.339 --> 00:30:18.539
like when did that start do you think I'd say

00:30:18.539 --> 00:30:20.819
it started around 2010 just trying to unpack

00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:23.440
some really heavy stuff but those yeah those

00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.500
never left the gate was that the first song you

00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:27.400
remember writing was the song for your brother

00:30:28.109 --> 00:30:30.730
I want to say yes. There was like silly songs

00:30:30.730 --> 00:30:32.910
I used to write with my friends. Actually, now

00:30:32.910 --> 00:30:34.970
that I'm thinking about it, one of my best friends,

00:30:35.049 --> 00:30:37.430
Peyton, and I wrote a song at a block party.

00:30:37.490 --> 00:30:39.269
I want to say two years prior. So it would have

00:30:39.269 --> 00:30:43.029
been like 2008, 2009. But it was a very silly

00:30:43.029 --> 00:30:44.569
song. It was just like, oh, this is just for

00:30:44.569 --> 00:30:46.230
fun. So I didn't take it seriously. But I guess

00:30:46.230 --> 00:30:48.750
if I were to go all the way back at 2008, 2009

00:30:48.750 --> 00:30:51.430
is when I started putting stuff on paper and

00:30:51.430 --> 00:30:55.230
singing it out loud. Yeah. Cool, cool. What about

00:30:55.230 --> 00:30:57.509
you, Elizabeth? When was the first, like, it

00:30:57.509 --> 00:31:00.230
sounds like almost maybe the opposite experience

00:31:00.230 --> 00:31:03.269
for you. Like you were almost maybe, and this

00:31:03.269 --> 00:31:06.589
is maybe, this is a guess, but based on things

00:31:06.589 --> 00:31:09.589
you've said already in this interview, I feel

00:31:09.589 --> 00:31:12.769
like maybe you wrote songs before you even knew

00:31:12.769 --> 00:31:16.349
who other artists were at some point. I think

00:31:16.349 --> 00:31:18.950
I wrote songs before I knew I was writing songs.

00:31:19.109 --> 00:31:22.529
That's awesome. It wasn't even a, yeah. So the

00:31:22.529 --> 00:31:27.039
first. Time that I remember creating a melodic

00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:31.740
idea that had lyrics was at a campground. It

00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.619
was after hours. The festival had shut down for

00:31:34.619 --> 00:31:38.339
the night. And there was another girl who was

00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:40.480
my same age and we were friends. We would see

00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:42.740
each other a couple of times a year. And her

00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:45.039
parents were also in a band and they were performing

00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.700
that weekend. And so she got up on stage. And

00:31:48.700 --> 00:31:50.519
she started singing. I think we were both like

00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:54.019
eight or nine. And I wrote poetry. I love to

00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:57.500
write poems. And so I knew how to create a rhyme

00:31:57.500 --> 00:31:59.920
scheme and to write something that meant something

00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:02.819
to me. So she got up on stage and she started

00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:04.940
singing this song that she wrote called Bye Bye

00:32:04.940 --> 00:32:08.579
Baby Bye Bye. And I was so starstruck with what

00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:11.839
she was doing there. And so I went home from

00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:15.160
that festival and I wrote my own version of Bye

00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:18.279
Bye Baby Bye Bye at eight years old. And I said

00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:21.519
goodbye to dogs and grandparents and things.

00:32:21.619 --> 00:32:24.480
So I was familiar with loss at that point in

00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.759
life. And so it was a song about saying goodbye

00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.319
to somebody that you loved and not romantically.

00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.200
But that's what that meant to me at that point.

00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:36.579
And it rested. And then I had this really aha

00:32:36.579 --> 00:32:41.380
series of experiences in high school. where I

00:32:41.380 --> 00:32:43.819
just knew that I would always be a musician,

00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.460
that that was just part of the landscape of who

00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:52.720
I was. And that chapter involved a punk rock

00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:56.259
band, and it was actually another trio of women.

00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:59.640
And we would get together. What was the name

00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:03.420
of that band? I cannot say. Classified document.

00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:07.099
That's right. It was never like officially decided

00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:10.140
upon, but there was like... Oh, okay, okay. It

00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:13.420
wasn't ever on a marquee. We never really got

00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:16.079
a gig, but we played in my friend's bedroom.

00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.380
She had a waterbed, and we had a drum kit, and

00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:23.920
we would just bounce around this waterbed writing

00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.900
really raunchy lyrics. Bikini Kill was our main

00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:30.720
influence. Oh, hell yeah. What did the waterbed

00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:32.799
do for the acoustics? of the room. It didn't

00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.980
matter. It was a lot of bouncy bass lines back

00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:39.279
in the day. Dude, that sounds so chaotic. That

00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:42.180
sounds so fun. That's what I was doing in 98,

00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:45.579
99, 10 years before you described your experience.

00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.440
I feel like that's around the time. I think it's

00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.039
a little earlier than the movie about the getaways

00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.559
came out, which I think introduced that to a

00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:58.619
whole new generation of women. Joan Jett was

00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:01.339
obviously like a powerhouse already, but I feel

00:34:01.339 --> 00:34:03.759
like a lot of people, that movie wasn't super

00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:06.400
well received. But if you go back and watch it

00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.739
now, and it's become a cult classic among a lot

00:34:09.739 --> 00:34:14.539
of people I know that were like into... rebelliousness

00:34:14.539 --> 00:34:19.340
and like not into the MTV top 40 thing and it

00:34:19.340 --> 00:34:21.420
sounds like you definitely were not into the

00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:26.340
MTV top 40 thing no in 1998 no I grew up in a

00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:29.059
suburb of Tampa and there were like two really

00:34:29.059 --> 00:34:32.960
great music stores and one of them had live punk

00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.699
shows and they had all the underground punk recordings

00:34:36.699 --> 00:34:39.059
so you could go in there and be like browsing

00:34:39.059 --> 00:34:41.880
and everybody there was an expert Because that's

00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:44.260
how it was in the 90s. Can you name those record

00:34:44.260 --> 00:34:46.440
stores, at least, for the people? Oh, God, I

00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.960
don't remember what they were. I would have to

00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.360
look it up. I don't remember. One of the stores

00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.440
I worked at in college had a location in Tampa

00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.159
on Henderson. I don't know if that's one of them.

00:34:57.179 --> 00:34:59.420
It was not on Henderson. No, it was... But they

00:34:59.420 --> 00:35:00.840
had a lot of in -stores, but I don't know how

00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.440
many punk ones. There was one on Lumpston. and

00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.800
that was one of the main thoroughfares going

00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.320
through Brandon. And the other one was on Highway

00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:12.780
60, and it was next to a skate shop called The

00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:17.579
Cove. Is Highway 60 Dale Mabry Highway? Possibly,

00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:20.760
when it crosses over the bay and becomes Park

00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.500
Clearwater. Maybe it was Vinyl Fever then, because

00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:26.000
I think it was on Dale Mabry for a long time.

00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.539
I don't remember the name of the store, but that's

00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:33.199
where I got all my good CDs from. Like I, once

00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:37.260
I got to the age where I could afford to buy

00:35:37.260 --> 00:35:40.880
CDs, get a ride up to the store and go buy music

00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:43.480
that my parents were just horrified by. That

00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.460
is exactly what I did. That is all I wanted in

00:35:46.460 --> 00:35:50.000
life was to have loud punk rock music blasting

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:55.679
out of my five disc CD changer. So what? What

00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.760
was it that really got your, like, what were

00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:01.159
your, like, favorite bands, like, around 12,

00:36:01.380 --> 00:36:04.260
13? What was, Bikini Kill is one you mentioned,

00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:07.360
but what else were you listening to around that

00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:08.980
time when you were first, like, getting rides

00:36:08.980 --> 00:36:12.699
to the record store? In sixth grade is when I

00:36:12.699 --> 00:36:15.300
remember Kurt Cobain committing suicide. And

00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:17.599
that really, like, my babysitters would play

00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:20.820
me Metallica and Nirvana and all this really

00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:23.480
amazing, like, Ozzy Osbourne, like, hard rock

00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:26.940
stuff. And so in sixth grade, like, that made

00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:29.599
headlines. MTV was a big deal. And so I remember

00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.780
just getting really into grunge rock in middle

00:36:32.780 --> 00:36:34.880
school. And then when I got into high school

00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:38.019
was, like, okay, like, that felt very mainstream.

00:36:38.099 --> 00:36:41.690
So punk rock became... my passion. Dead Kennedys

00:36:41.690 --> 00:36:44.610
were hugely awesome for me. There was a lot of

00:36:44.610 --> 00:36:48.090
ska starting to happen, so Less Than Jake and

00:36:48.090 --> 00:36:50.250
Sublime, of course, like everybody had the three

00:36:50.250 --> 00:36:53.369
Sublime albums blasting in their car and driving

00:36:53.369 --> 00:36:55.510
to... I used to mow the lawn to that self -titled

00:36:55.510 --> 00:36:58.309
record all the time. Yeah, all that was really

00:36:58.309 --> 00:37:01.590
great. There was a... NoFX was really pivotal.

00:37:02.070 --> 00:37:04.570
Yeah, but the Bikini Kill... Oh, and then Ani

00:37:04.570 --> 00:37:07.590
DiFranco, too. We discovered Ani DiFranco and...

00:37:07.949 --> 00:37:10.570
That was really fun to blast that. My mom would

00:37:10.570 --> 00:37:13.949
come in and be like, this is folk, and I'm happy

00:37:13.949 --> 00:37:16.369
you're listening to something with some acoustic

00:37:16.369 --> 00:37:20.230
integrity, but it's so angry. Acoustic integrity

00:37:20.230 --> 00:37:25.650
is crazy. That's the old mom. Go mom. Wow. She

00:37:25.650 --> 00:37:28.510
wasn't into distortion pedals, but the punk band

00:37:28.510 --> 00:37:30.550
I was in was really. She never got over Dylan

00:37:30.550 --> 00:37:33.610
going electric. No, she has a dog named Dylan

00:37:33.610 --> 00:37:35.789
now. If that tells you anything about her passion

00:37:35.789 --> 00:37:39.119
for Bob Dylan. She got over it. What about you,

00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:42.460
Ina? What are some of your early music influences?

00:37:42.699 --> 00:37:46.519
And if I feel like I skip over a question, like

00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:49.539
jumping back and forth, feel free to back up

00:37:49.539 --> 00:37:52.900
and answer one before I move forward. Okay, who

00:37:52.900 --> 00:37:56.199
were my early music influences? Honestly, as

00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:57.820
she was talking about it, I was thinking about

00:37:57.820 --> 00:38:00.719
how a lot of my music discovery, especially in

00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:03.159
middle school, happened on Pandora Radio. And

00:38:03.159 --> 00:38:06.980
I think because of the age that I came up, lot

00:38:06.980 --> 00:38:09.380
of our music was digitized so again that probably

00:38:09.380 --> 00:38:12.420
plays into why I can't name people as easily

00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:15.389
because I think you've the way music has been

00:38:15.389 --> 00:38:18.269
distributed in my time has been more geared towards

00:38:18.269 --> 00:38:20.909
the song and the product and not as much towards

00:38:20.909 --> 00:38:22.869
the artist but when I think about artists that

00:38:22.869 --> 00:38:26.909
come up Eminem was like probably one of the first

00:38:26.909 --> 00:38:30.550
artists whose album I memorized like top to bottom

00:38:30.550 --> 00:38:33.630
like I remember printing the lyrics to Not Afraid

00:38:33.630 --> 00:38:37.739
and riding on the school bus and just to memorize

00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:41.340
them. Who are some other artists that I was listening

00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:45.519
to? John Legend. I really loved his sound. And

00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:47.639
there was, maybe not an artist, but there was

00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:51.019
a station that used to play in the car a lot,

00:38:51.260 --> 00:38:54.320
96 .3. It's over in Minneapolis, and they did

00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:56.880
a lot of R &B music, so that's what led me to

00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.679
go down the R &B pathway. Yeah, I think, I listen

00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:05.159
to some cheesy 90s R &B growing up. But I really

00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:09.820
got into soul music in the early to mid 2000s

00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:12.500
during that kind of revival. And then I went

00:39:12.500 --> 00:39:14.460
back and listened to a lot of older stuff. But

00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:18.219
like Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings. I was blessed

00:39:18.219 --> 00:39:20.139
to get to see her like probably half a dozen

00:39:20.139 --> 00:39:22.719
times. She pulled me up on stage a couple of

00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:26.420
times. No way. Serious. One time she serenaded

00:39:26.420 --> 00:39:30.019
me to how do I let a good man down. And I'm pretty

00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:34.019
sure it cursed me for 10 years. Okay. But it

00:39:34.019 --> 00:39:39.139
created this whole new soul revival for me. Yeah.

00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:42.019
Where I went back and got into everything from

00:39:42.019 --> 00:39:47.380
James Brown to just everything. To old jazz,

00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:51.440
like Etta James and Nina Simone, to Ella Fitzgerald,

00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:56.349
to listening to Booker T. And then eventually

00:39:56.349 --> 00:39:58.889
I started listening to more blues stuff, too.

00:39:58.969 --> 00:40:02.530
And I got into this band that was like a blues

00:40:02.530 --> 00:40:06.469
revival band from North Mississippi called the

00:40:06.469 --> 00:40:09.050
North Mississippi All -Stars, who put out an

00:40:09.050 --> 00:40:13.130
album in 2005. It was a live recording of their

00:40:13.130 --> 00:40:15.829
Bonnaroo performance with R .L. Burnside sitting

00:40:15.829 --> 00:40:20.730
on stage. And I just, I was hooked. I was hooked.

00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:24.219
And it also featured Chris Robinson from Black

00:40:24.219 --> 00:40:26.880
Crows. He came on and did a song. And for a long

00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.400
time, I rebelled against southern -sounding music

00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:33.820
for various personal, family stuff, whatever.

00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:37.619
But it was like, once I got into, and I became,

00:40:37.820 --> 00:40:41.460
started with Motown and became a Stax guy. And

00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:44.659
once I got into that southern soul sound, it's

00:40:44.659 --> 00:40:48.099
what brought me into some of my favorite music

00:40:48.099 --> 00:40:51.969
to this day. It's really interesting, like, the

00:40:51.969 --> 00:40:54.849
different pathways, but they all, I feel like

00:40:54.849 --> 00:40:57.269
a lot of the time they all lead the same place.

00:40:57.349 --> 00:40:59.750
Well, they brought us all here. Yeah, exactly.

00:41:00.289 --> 00:41:03.050
I'm curious about, so having grown up in Minneapolis.

00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:07.159
What, it just seems like it would be such a different

00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.739
music vibe because of the proximity to Motown.

00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:12.199
There's so much great stuff that came out of

00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:14.420
Detroit. And hearing you talk about your musical

00:41:14.420 --> 00:41:17.380
influences, I'm like, wow. Yeah, you can't forget

00:41:17.380 --> 00:41:20.880
Prince, absolutely. And the Jacksons, and yeah.

00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:25.010
Yeah, like. I feel like Minneapolis, especially

00:41:25.010 --> 00:41:27.289
while you were growing up, was really celebrating

00:41:27.289 --> 00:41:29.690
Prince, too. There was that Super Bowl performance

00:41:29.690 --> 00:41:32.449
that I've talked about before on this podcast,

00:41:32.449 --> 00:41:37.409
and I talk about it way more than anybody should

00:41:37.409 --> 00:41:39.969
talk about anything. But yeah, that's a really

00:41:39.969 --> 00:41:43.019
great question. Minneapolis is a very different

00:41:43.019 --> 00:41:45.340
place than where either of us, I think, grew

00:41:45.340 --> 00:41:47.940
up. Yeah, for certain. I would say that, honestly,

00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:50.400
I didn't take advantage of the music scene in

00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:52.420
Minneapolis when I was there. A lot of what I

00:41:52.420 --> 00:41:55.340
was doing with music was through theater or through

00:41:55.340 --> 00:41:59.619
school, mostly. And so I think if I were to go

00:41:59.619 --> 00:42:02.239
back down, or rather up there, because they're

00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.619
all the way up north, I'd be able to explore

00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:07.420
a lot more. But I do know from friends that are

00:42:07.420 --> 00:42:09.920
still up there in the music scene that it's...

00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:12.659
It's a very supportive community, I think, compared

00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:14.920
to bigger cities. When you think about music,

00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:17.699
you think about Atlanta, New York, L .A. It's

00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:20.059
almost an oversaturated market. And what I've

00:42:20.059 --> 00:42:23.360
found coming down to Tallahassee and even in

00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:26.199
D .C. in certain pockets is because it's a smaller

00:42:26.199 --> 00:42:29.039
community, but still with so much history and

00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:32.719
so much talent that it's easier to navigate and

00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:34.619
it's more community based. And from what I've

00:42:34.619 --> 00:42:36.420
heard from my friends there, it's very much like

00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:39.880
that in Minneapolis as well. So I guess. To back

00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:42.320
up to what Elizabeth was asking, I feel like

00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:45.179
there was... It's just what I heard when she

00:42:45.179 --> 00:42:48.119
asked it. Sure. I feel like what you probably

00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:51.119
would hear on the radio growing up versus what

00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.519
I would hear on the radio growing up versus...

00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:55.019
And I don't know if you even really listened

00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:57.559
to the radio much growing up. Pretty so often.

00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.739
But I feel like the stations are probably very

00:43:00.739 --> 00:43:03.039
different. They're very focused on different

00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:06.559
genres in those locations. Here we had a lot

00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:10.840
of... top 40 country and then like new reed was

00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:13.199
from here so there was a lot of that new rock

00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:16.880
sound and then bradenton tampa like that's a

00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:19.980
lot more i mean that the further that's where

00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:23.000
florida is like the most southern i feel is like

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.780
central like tampa is like the edge of that but

00:43:25.780 --> 00:43:29.820
there's a lot more of the i feel like folksy

00:43:29.820 --> 00:43:32.639
type music and roots music and things like that

00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:35.690
where and then Minneapolis, I would imagine some

00:43:35.690 --> 00:43:39.809
of the top stations were Seoul and RMB stations.

00:43:40.670 --> 00:43:44.650
Yeah, I can only speak honestly to 96 .3. I think,

00:43:44.650 --> 00:43:47.170
as we were discussing earlier, once I find my

00:43:47.170 --> 00:43:49.530
vein of what I like, sometimes I usually tunnel

00:43:49.530 --> 00:43:53.170
vision in. But I have my 10 -year high school

00:43:53.170 --> 00:43:55.469
reunion this year, and I'll be back up in Minneapolis

00:43:55.469 --> 00:43:57.710
in August, and we'll be able to speak much more

00:43:57.710 --> 00:43:59.969
to the radio. But I can't do that answer any

00:43:59.969 --> 00:44:03.110
justice. I'm sorry. I'm thinking about how much

00:44:03.110 --> 00:44:06.510
this has changed, because there were regional

00:44:06.510 --> 00:44:10.500
preferences and differences. if you back up 30

00:44:10.500 --> 00:44:13.800
years ago where the internet made it so easy

00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.559
to like, just, this is what, this is the canned.

00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:20.960
playlist of what everybody's going to be listening

00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:24.360
to no matter where you go so there were more

00:44:24.360 --> 00:44:27.719
distinctions and there probably are i don't know

00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.340
i'm this no i think you're really on to something

00:44:30.340 --> 00:44:33.599
hardcore here but yeah so keep going and then

00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:35.679
i have something to add i think that yeah like

00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:38.679
where radio used to serve this function to reflect

00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.940
what's happening within the community right now

00:44:41.940 --> 00:44:45.239
it's the community that is the reflection piece

00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:48.320
of that and it's really I'm thinking about this

00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:51.239
from a more of an ethnomusicology point of view

00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:55.760
but The music that I've seen grow here is very

00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:58.500
roots -based, and we get a lot of what we have

00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:00.480
because the universities are here. So there's

00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:03.059
a lot of jazz infusion. There's a lot of really

00:45:03.059 --> 00:45:06.519
incredible classically trained players that kind

00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:08.860
of sprinkle in to what's happening in the folk

00:45:08.860 --> 00:45:11.139
scene. But then we get these world -class artists,

00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:15.940
and it's so special and it's so unique how different

00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:18.559
locations that I go to have different versions

00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:21.079
of the same song, and then with that are influenced

00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.360
by their roots. and the traditions of the people

00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:25.019
that have been living there for generations.

00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:29.820
And in this age of mass consumption, you can

00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:32.659
find anything that you're looking for with a

00:45:32.659 --> 00:45:35.340
streaming service and pretty much the same canned

00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:38.980
radio station broadcast, whether you're in Austin

00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:44.219
or Tampa or L .A. wherever you go. But what's

00:45:44.219 --> 00:45:48.079
happening now is that sets us all apart regionally

00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:50.400
is what people are creating and producing in

00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:52.139
their own communities and their local coffee

00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:55.480
houses and local bars, scenes like that. I was

00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:57.300
just thinking about how different the experience

00:45:57.300 --> 00:45:59.699
would be going to somewhere. So here in Tallahassee,

00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:02.559
we have a really amazing place called the Blue

00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:06.320
Tavern. And we get a lot of people from the community

00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:08.079
performing there, but a lot of people that are

00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:09.980
passing through, they hear about it. It's a listening

00:46:09.980 --> 00:46:12.679
room. And so what happens in that listening room

00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:15.420
is reflective of who's here and who's passing

00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:18.940
through. And with that, the generational passing

00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:21.480
down of music traditions that have existed here

00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.719
has really enriched that thread. And I'm always

00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:26.780
curious when I go to other cities and other countries,

00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:29.400
other places, what are people listening to? What

00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:31.420
are the standards? What are the songs that everybody

00:46:31.420 --> 00:46:34.320
at the local poorhouse are sick to death of because

00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:38.079
every single cover band in town always does that

00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:41.179
song. And so I'm just wondering, I was just curious

00:46:41.179 --> 00:46:43.320
when I asked that question, like what are those

00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:45.739
regional differences in Minneapolis? And it might

00:46:45.739 --> 00:46:48.119
be hard to answer that if you're just kind of

00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.380
getting your feet wet here. I would say it's

00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:52.900
definitely hard to answer because I'm still getting

00:46:52.900 --> 00:46:54.719
my feet wet, but I'm so glad you brought that

00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:56.679
up because you're absolutely right. And to be

00:46:56.679 --> 00:46:58.320
honest, it's not something I've thought of. How

00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:02.219
does region... influence what's most popular,

00:47:02.300 --> 00:47:04.119
which is kind of, of course, duh, region is going

00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:06.739
to geography, it's going to impact. I do think

00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:10.500
it's influencing it less and less in a way that...

00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:14.079
Nice. So I do think it's influencing it less

00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:17.300
and less because of precisely what you were talking

00:47:17.300 --> 00:47:18.940
about. I think you hit the nail on the head.

00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:21.039
I think you're on to something really important

00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:23.199
here. And I'm going to take it to a biological

00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:26.630
concept for a minute to make a comparison. I

00:47:26.630 --> 00:47:28.750
want to say I don't believe in like cultural

00:47:28.750 --> 00:47:31.250
evolution or anything like that necessarily.

00:47:31.510 --> 00:47:33.710
But I do think this is applicable here because

00:47:33.710 --> 00:47:38.050
the same thing happens in like a population of

00:47:38.050 --> 00:47:41.329
an animal, okay? And I'll use the Galapagos Islands

00:47:41.329 --> 00:47:45.389
as this is where Darwin discovered the mechanism

00:47:45.389 --> 00:47:47.989
for evolution was on the Galapagos Islands. And

00:47:47.989 --> 00:47:50.969
it was because the Galapagos Islands used to

00:47:50.969 --> 00:47:53.550
be one piece of land and then they got separated

00:47:53.550 --> 00:47:57.090
by water. And so... all of a sudden there were

00:47:57.090 --> 00:47:59.010
these like little differences on each of the

00:47:59.010 --> 00:48:03.369
islands and over time without interaction between

00:48:03.369 --> 00:48:07.190
the islands they formed different species of

00:48:07.190 --> 00:48:10.630
finches and turtle tortoises and all these things

00:48:10.630 --> 00:48:13.269
that you noticed the one of the most famous examples

00:48:13.269 --> 00:48:16.070
was like there were finches that had elongated

00:48:16.070 --> 00:48:18.610
beaks that could get into the shells and there

00:48:18.610 --> 00:48:22.079
was finches that had more rounded beaks to to,

00:48:22.139 --> 00:48:25.519
I believe, eat nuts and berries off of trees

00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:27.880
that only grew on that particular island. And

00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:30.880
not only that, there were trees that only grew

00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:32.800
on this island and didn't grow on that island.

00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:36.440
And they're all in a very small area. But these

00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:40.659
differences and the isolation, and I think the

00:48:40.659 --> 00:48:43.539
isolation is what we're talking about here, is

00:48:43.539 --> 00:48:47.739
what created the different species, okay? And

00:48:47.739 --> 00:48:49.659
if you want to take that comparison of different

00:48:49.659 --> 00:48:52.309
genres of music, There's a lot of people out

00:48:52.309 --> 00:48:54.690
there that would argue genre doesn't even exist

00:48:54.690 --> 00:48:57.670
really anymore in popular music. What's being

00:48:57.670 --> 00:49:00.429
played on the radio, the way it's being produced,

00:49:00.630 --> 00:49:03.429
it's almost all the same. Hip -hop and country

00:49:03.429 --> 00:49:07.349
are almost the same thing. Or top 40, right?

00:49:07.929 --> 00:49:11.849
In a large population, people still do listen

00:49:11.849 --> 00:49:15.269
to the radio. I think there are people that don't

00:49:15.269 --> 00:49:18.920
have... filter that a lot of the people that

00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:21.920
we probably associate with have so they end up

00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.860
just like getting whatever is fed to them and

00:49:24.860 --> 00:49:27.880
they're happy with it that's fine but in that

00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.699
world genre doesn't really exist anymore and

00:49:31.699 --> 00:49:35.000
it's because I think everybody's listening to

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:36.940
everything everybody's listening to everyone

00:49:36.940 --> 00:49:40.300
and then this brings up like kind of what we

00:49:40.300 --> 00:49:42.119
were talking about earlier were like how much

00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:44.539
do you listen to when you're recording or writing

00:49:44.539 --> 00:49:48.139
music or like how much do you consciously take

00:49:48.139 --> 00:49:52.840
into like account what you're like i'm writing

00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:55.579
a bluegrass song or whatever it might an r b

00:49:55.579 --> 00:49:58.199
song or whatever it is or does it just become

00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:01.019
that and the most artists it just becomes that

00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:04.400
but they try and limit it by what their influence

00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:07.059
is at the time that they're writing it or recording

00:50:07.059 --> 00:50:11.320
it and so we find artists intentionally isolating

00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:15.360
themselves from listening to the bigger picture

00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.519
sometimes in a way to escape the fact that everybody

00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.059
has the same syndicated radio show from Austin.

00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:29.739
The fact that everybody has access to bands in

00:50:29.739 --> 00:50:35.280
Venezuela or the Ukraine or Russia or... And

00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.219
I don't think this is bad or good. This is just

00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:40.619
how it is. I'm not trying to put any value judgment

00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:43.920
on any of this. But what I think is that you

00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:48.760
hit the nail on the head. The internet is the

00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:54.059
reason that we see regional music becoming a

00:50:54.059 --> 00:50:57.880
thing that goes from this is what we are to being

00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:00.400
this is something we have to preserve. Because

00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:05.219
I think 25 years ago... You could travel around

00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:08.800
the country and go to a local bar and hear very...

00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:11.039
They might all be cover bands, but they're covering

00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.460
a bunch of different stuff. And now, you go listen

00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:16.599
to a classic rock station, they're going to play

00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:19.260
the same 40 songs in every country, be serious

00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:25.619
in XM and Clear Channel, own all of it. And I

00:51:25.619 --> 00:51:28.260
wonder how much that affects what those bands

00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.739
are playing in the local bars. I wonder how much

00:51:30.739 --> 00:51:33.340
that affects... what the kids are growing up

00:51:33.340 --> 00:51:36.760
listening to when they have parents that don't

00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:40.219
turn them on to amazing music and just have the

00:51:40.219 --> 00:51:42.380
radio playing in the car on the way to school.

00:51:42.699 --> 00:51:45.780
And my point is that I think you hit the nail

00:51:45.780 --> 00:51:50.980
on the head like 100%. The internet is both this

00:51:50.980 --> 00:51:53.500
magical thing that allows artists to get their

00:51:53.500 --> 00:51:55.760
stuff out there to anybody that wants to hear

00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:58.750
it. across the world including this i've had

00:51:58.750 --> 00:52:00.690
people in new zealand listening to this podcast

00:52:00.690 --> 00:52:03.250
i think i know who it is but shout out to them

00:52:03.250 --> 00:52:06.170
but my point is is that it's a double -edged

00:52:06.170 --> 00:52:09.570
sword too because with that the things that make

00:52:09.570 --> 00:52:12.789
us the places that we grow up the places that

00:52:12.789 --> 00:52:17.170
we writing songs about the environment that we're

00:52:17.170 --> 00:52:20.610
in and being isolated in that environment and

00:52:20.610 --> 00:52:23.619
only having the tools And I'm going to stop rambling

00:52:23.619 --> 00:52:25.579
here in just a second. But the last thing that

00:52:25.579 --> 00:52:28.219
I want to mention is a common theme that's come

00:52:28.219 --> 00:52:30.599
up on this podcast over and over is that constraint

00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.579
can actually really make art thrive. And having

00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:38.420
too many tools at your disposal and maybe having

00:52:38.420 --> 00:52:41.440
too many influences, too many possibilities can

00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:43.980
stunt creativity in the same way that like having

00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:46.179
too many choices on a menu might make you unhappy

00:52:46.179 --> 00:52:50.780
that you didn't pick something else. But I really

00:52:50.780 --> 00:52:57.360
wonder like, How is it that you both intentionally

00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:01.119
constrain yourself when you're going through

00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:06.079
the process of recording, writing? What is it

00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:11.059
that you do, Ina? I'll just start with you. Especially

00:53:11.059 --> 00:53:15.059
right now, when you say you're writing these

00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:19.349
25 songs for 25, what... What are like, okay,

00:53:19.389 --> 00:53:22.070
I can only do it with, what are the rules? Do

00:53:22.070 --> 00:53:23.869
you have rules that you follow? Are there constraints?

00:53:24.530 --> 00:53:26.690
What are the kind of limits that you place upon

00:53:26.690 --> 00:53:30.289
yourself? And I think part of that is, okay,

00:53:30.349 --> 00:53:32.269
I'm going to go to this thing every week that

00:53:32.269 --> 00:53:34.510
helps preserve the kind of music that I grew

00:53:34.510 --> 00:53:37.610
up listening to. Or it could be, I'm going to

00:53:37.610 --> 00:53:40.309
isolate myself completely. Or it could be like

00:53:40.309 --> 00:53:42.329
when the Red Hot Chili Peppers recorded, by the

00:53:42.329 --> 00:53:43.530
way, and they were like, we're going to listen

00:53:43.530 --> 00:53:46.449
to the Beatles for a year and then make an album.

00:53:46.990 --> 00:53:49.090
I don't know if that's what they did, but that's

00:53:49.090 --> 00:53:51.030
what it sounds like. I think the beautiful thing

00:53:51.030 --> 00:53:54.809
about 25 for 2025 is that there are no rules

00:53:54.809 --> 00:53:57.010
and that's really how I wanted to approach it.

00:53:57.150 --> 00:54:02.590
It is about going on to YouTube or Spotify and

00:54:02.590 --> 00:54:04.710
finding different sounds that are actually way

00:54:04.710 --> 00:54:06.809
outside of my comfort zone. So it's been very

00:54:06.809 --> 00:54:09.369
different than how I would traditionally write

00:54:09.369 --> 00:54:13.969
music. So the rules for 2025 is just to create

00:54:13.969 --> 00:54:18.260
more. and to create outside of my comfort zone.

00:54:18.760 --> 00:54:21.500
And like I said, that's very different than how

00:54:21.500 --> 00:54:23.400
I would sit down in a room if I'm working on

00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:26.780
a project that I really want to tell a story

00:54:26.780 --> 00:54:31.840
with. 2025, the project has been more scattered,

00:54:32.139 --> 00:54:34.940
more all over the place. But I actually wanted

00:54:34.940 --> 00:54:36.679
to circle back to what you were saying about

00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:38.960
radio, if it's okay for a moment. Absolutely.

00:54:39.630 --> 00:54:41.769
Radio was one of the first places that I thought

00:54:41.769 --> 00:54:45.289
to go back into to find new music. And of course,

00:54:45.289 --> 00:54:48.469
like any tool, be it radio, be it DSPs, those

00:54:48.469 --> 00:54:50.769
distribution service providers, Apple Music,

00:54:50.869 --> 00:54:53.670
Spotify, so on. They both have their positives

00:54:53.670 --> 00:54:55.809
and negatives. Any tool can be a resource. It

00:54:55.809 --> 00:54:57.630
can also be a constraint, as you were talking

00:54:57.630 --> 00:54:59.989
about. And so it's interesting because the more

00:54:59.989 --> 00:55:01.769
we talk about radio and the more I dive into

00:55:01.769 --> 00:55:04.309
it myself, I don't think that's the place that

00:55:04.309 --> 00:55:07.110
I need to be really going to discover new music.

00:55:07.110 --> 00:55:08.869
Because you're right, they're sticking with this.

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:12.800
same 40 50 songs because one their market is

00:55:12.800 --> 00:55:15.840
calling for it all everything is monetized in

00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:18.679
the music world and more so than ever it feels

00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:23.019
like now but two it's yeah I'm just I'm wondering

00:55:23.019 --> 00:55:26.019
in your opinion and both of you guys what do

00:55:26.019 --> 00:55:28.360
you think would be the best way to find new music

00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:31.760
and why isn't it radio and why maybe isn't also

00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:35.429
not internet what do you guys think I'll give

00:55:35.429 --> 00:55:38.170
you my answer. Yeah. And it's probably just because

00:55:38.170 --> 00:55:41.429
it's how I did it. But you can still do it this

00:55:41.429 --> 00:55:45.869
way. Go to your local record store. Find out

00:55:45.869 --> 00:55:48.510
who works there that's into the same shit that

00:55:48.510 --> 00:55:51.690
you're into. And then go there and ask them what

00:55:51.690 --> 00:55:54.329
you should be listening to every week. We trust

00:55:54.329 --> 00:55:57.869
an algorithm to give us our movie and music and

00:55:57.869 --> 00:56:00.070
television recommendations. And I think that's

00:56:00.070 --> 00:56:04.380
crazy. I think those can be useful tools. Really

00:56:04.380 --> 00:56:06.780
itching for something new and like you you're

00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:09.360
like I want something like this then that's cool

00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.639
I think it's a really great tool, but usually

00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:17.320
the music that I end up really liking is music

00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:21.639
that I Don't fully understand or grasp right

00:56:21.639 --> 00:56:24.159
away and might even be a little bit like turned

00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:27.679
off by and I deep like not just songs I like

00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:30.519
but like talking like Frank Zappa level of appreciation

00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:33.900
like you're you know going to Frank Zappa expecting

00:56:33.900 --> 00:56:37.420
to find a new pop song that you can just sing

00:56:37.420 --> 00:56:39.539
along to on the way home from work on a Friday

00:56:39.539 --> 00:56:41.980
the third time you heard it. I guess is my point.

00:56:42.139 --> 00:56:44.619
There's different types of music for different

00:56:44.619 --> 00:56:48.380
moods, different whatever. I think we have to

00:56:48.380 --> 00:56:52.280
trust each other more than we have been. I think

00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:56.179
we've let the billionaires take over every aspect

00:56:56.179 --> 00:57:01.010
of everything we do. It used to be you at least

00:57:01.010 --> 00:57:03.650
talked to a person if you got takeout because

00:57:03.650 --> 00:57:06.630
you called them. Yeah, that's so true. At least

00:57:06.630 --> 00:57:09.429
had a little bit of human interaction. Now you

00:57:09.429 --> 00:57:13.150
can literally order a pizza on an app, go pick

00:57:13.150 --> 00:57:15.809
it up from a box by scanning a QR code and not

00:57:15.809 --> 00:57:19.309
talk to a single person. Which is tragic. It

00:57:19.309 --> 00:57:21.349
really is. Because what if one of those people

00:57:21.349 --> 00:57:23.929
was listening to something that you... Yeah.

00:57:24.429 --> 00:57:27.070
We miss out on those human connection moments.

00:57:27.329 --> 00:57:29.949
Sometimes that might be how you find your favorite

00:57:29.949 --> 00:57:32.150
band. That's what I'm getting at, is it might

00:57:32.150 --> 00:57:34.050
be how you find your favorite movie or your favorite

00:57:34.050 --> 00:57:39.389
book or your favorite band or not. But I don't

00:57:39.389 --> 00:57:41.570
know, man. I think we've trusted the algorithm

00:57:41.570 --> 00:57:44.130
way too much. Yeah, I think it's time to take

00:57:44.130 --> 00:57:46.170
a trip down to that record store, go find some

00:57:46.170 --> 00:57:48.469
parking and get into it. I would agree with that.

00:57:48.550 --> 00:57:51.130
And as you guys were both hashing out your answers,

00:57:51.170 --> 00:57:54.400
I was thinking over the years, like, Anytime

00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:58.139
that I've wanted to improve my craft, I always

00:57:58.139 --> 00:58:00.900
go find somebody who's playing it better, who's

00:58:00.900 --> 00:58:03.519
doing the thing that I aspire to do, who's writing

00:58:03.519 --> 00:58:07.420
lyrics that just hit me in ways that I need to

00:58:07.420 --> 00:58:10.280
process before I fully grasp. And so I've been

00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:13.219
really fortunate to just always be able to find

00:58:13.219 --> 00:58:18.300
somebody that can really help me to grow. A conversation

00:58:18.300 --> 00:58:20.960
that I always have with those people is, who

00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:23.119
are you listening to? Who are your favorite people?

00:58:23.260 --> 00:58:25.059
A lot of the questions that you've been asking

00:58:25.059 --> 00:58:28.139
us, I can hear myself asking those questions

00:58:28.139 --> 00:58:30.699
of my guitar teacher, my vocal teacher. I've

00:58:30.699 --> 00:58:33.949
sat down to write songs with people and... And

00:58:33.949 --> 00:58:36.269
it just comes up naturally in conversation when

00:58:36.269 --> 00:58:38.070
you're working with other musicians of, yeah,

00:58:38.110 --> 00:58:40.730
I do this thing. Like I heard this person do

00:58:40.730 --> 00:58:43.289
it. And now it's become like a really essential

00:58:43.289 --> 00:58:47.010
thread to what I do and asking your mentors.

00:58:48.010 --> 00:58:51.250
Who has helped them along the way or who are

00:58:51.250 --> 00:58:54.369
they listening to right now? And it's amazing

00:58:54.369 --> 00:58:59.170
to tease out. So I worked with this really incredible

00:58:59.170 --> 00:59:02.550
guitar player in town and vocalist. Chris Sebersad

00:59:02.550 --> 00:59:06.420
is his name. I didn't realize this going into

00:59:06.420 --> 00:59:10.559
it, but he listens to so much soul music and

00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.880
all these like church singers. I just got turned

00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:17.119
on to this whole genre of music because I asked

00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:20.019
that question. And a lot of it is music from

00:59:20.019 --> 00:59:22.619
the area of the country where you're from. I

00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:25.579
started looking at YouTube videos that he recommended,

00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:28.340
and a lot of it was church music from Detroit

00:59:28.340 --> 00:59:32.699
and Chicago. And what powerful music. And it's

00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:35.760
really cool that he's brought some of that to

00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:38.840
Tallahassee. And Rachel Hillman is somebody else

00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:41.000
that I've collaborated with and learned from

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:44.769
and written with over the years. And her influences

00:59:44.769 --> 00:59:48.530
are so broad and so rich. And she grew up in

00:59:48.530 --> 00:59:50.730
South Florida as well. And so there's this really

00:59:50.730 --> 00:59:54.289
strong influence of like Cuban music. If you

00:59:54.289 --> 00:59:57.829
live in South Florida, like you cannot go anywhere

00:59:57.829 --> 01:00:00.409
to eat or you can't like flick through the radio

01:00:00.409 --> 01:00:03.469
dial without hearing some kind of music, either

01:00:03.469 --> 01:00:06.610
Cuban music, Mexican music. It's just there.

01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:10.630
It's part of the fabric of what it is to be from

01:00:10.630 --> 01:00:14.510
that area. was influenced by a lot of those rhythms

01:00:14.510 --> 01:00:16.570
and those have permeated into the music that

01:00:16.570 --> 01:00:19.489
she creates and that she's brought here. I grew

01:00:19.489 --> 01:00:22.610
up in a church and our pastor was from Spain.

01:00:22.829 --> 01:00:26.789
And so we did a lot of, and he did mass in Spanish.

01:00:27.170 --> 01:00:29.329
And so we ended up with a lot of Hispanic people

01:00:29.329 --> 01:00:31.710
attending our church and our services and the

01:00:31.710 --> 01:00:35.550
school where I went. And so I never realized

01:00:35.550 --> 01:00:38.010
because there was so much bluegrass in my home,

01:00:38.050 --> 01:00:41.329
but I never realized how much Hispanic music

01:00:41.329 --> 01:00:43.409
had an influence on me. But now that I'm teaching

01:00:43.409 --> 01:00:46.769
music in elementary school, like so many of those

01:00:46.769 --> 01:00:50.119
folk songs are coming back to me. And so now

01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:52.320
I want to know who was recording those songs.

01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:56.039
Like I heard them from church, but now I want

01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:59.199
to hear Tito Puente singing. And there's just,

01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:01.340
there's so much when you really start to take

01:01:01.340 --> 01:01:03.960
a step back and you think about what's come through

01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:07.719
the pipeline of folk music and just the human

01:01:07.719 --> 01:01:10.500
to human culture that we transmit without even

01:01:10.500 --> 01:01:13.199
thinking about it. That's how I find new artists

01:01:13.199 --> 01:01:16.489
is from talking to people. Another way that I

01:01:16.489 --> 01:01:19.289
find new artists is by looking at concert bills,

01:01:19.469 --> 01:01:22.230
who's playing at these different regional festivals.

01:01:22.530 --> 01:01:24.929
And so if you look at who's on the bill for the

01:01:24.929 --> 01:01:29.469
Tampa Bay Blues Festival and Jazz Fest, and you

01:01:29.469 --> 01:01:31.409
can get turned on to so many new artists just

01:01:31.409 --> 01:01:34.730
by glancing and then doing a quick Spotify search

01:01:34.730 --> 01:01:37.969
or whatever your streaming service is, or YouTube,

01:01:38.110 --> 01:01:40.690
and finding, oh my gosh, like this is incredible.

01:01:40.869 --> 01:01:43.489
Or maybe not. Maybe I'll keep looking until I

01:01:43.489 --> 01:01:46.230
find somebody I like. But we do have so much

01:01:46.230 --> 01:01:50.309
readily accessible, but nothing subs for loving

01:01:50.309 --> 01:01:55.170
a sound that somebody that you admire and finding

01:01:55.170 --> 01:01:57.989
out who influenced them to make that sound, I

01:01:57.989 --> 01:02:00.630
think is one of the richest ways that I've had

01:02:00.630 --> 01:02:03.090
to discover new music. I just want to do a quick

01:02:03.090 --> 01:02:05.730
plug. Our next episode is going to be with a

01:02:05.730 --> 01:02:09.650
member of Cedric Burnside's band. And he just

01:02:09.650 --> 01:02:11.949
played Jazz Fest three weeks ago over in New

01:02:11.949 --> 01:02:14.849
Orleans. So just a little plug for the next episode.

01:02:14.929 --> 01:02:17.550
If you're enjoying this talk, check out next

01:02:17.550 --> 01:02:20.050
week's episode as well. It'll be with Cody Shade

01:02:20.050 --> 01:02:23.949
Harrell from Cedric Burnside's band. So when

01:02:23.949 --> 01:02:27.469
you guys are... You guys. When the two of you.

01:02:27.670 --> 01:02:31.590
When you two people... No. When you people...

01:02:31.590 --> 01:02:35.349
No. All right. But seriously, when you're looking

01:02:35.349 --> 01:02:39.710
at what you want. your next song to sound like

01:02:39.710 --> 01:02:44.510
how much of a conscious thing does genre or like

01:02:44.510 --> 01:02:49.030
region or am i i know some of your songs like

01:02:49.030 --> 01:02:52.269
clearly are influenced by different regions elizabeth

01:02:52.269 --> 01:02:55.010
like i'm pointing at like looking at you like

01:02:55.010 --> 01:02:57.170
the listeners can hear that but i know some of

01:02:57.170 --> 01:02:59.489
your songs are like very like regionally influenced

01:03:00.110 --> 01:03:02.429
Whether you're going to some of your Irish roots

01:03:02.429 --> 01:03:04.969
or like doing kind of more of a flamenco thing.

01:03:05.170 --> 01:03:07.389
Is that a conscious thing when you do that? Or

01:03:07.389 --> 01:03:09.809
do you think that just happens and then you embrace

01:03:09.809 --> 01:03:12.909
it once you notice it? Yeah, I was thinking about

01:03:12.909 --> 01:03:15.130
this question when we were talking earlier about

01:03:15.130 --> 01:03:18.369
how the shift might happen if you're writing

01:03:18.369 --> 01:03:21.670
on a label and with that in mind. And I don't.

01:03:21.670 --> 01:03:26.900
I write for me. I write 100%. from whatever my

01:03:26.900 --> 01:03:31.039
soul wants to sing at that time. And there definitely

01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:33.340
have been times where I'm like, oh, I need a

01:03:33.340 --> 01:03:36.199
song for this band. But usually I just go through

01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:39.360
my trove and I find something that works for

01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:42.340
whatever group needs some new original music.

01:03:43.099 --> 01:03:46.719
So I write from different places. A lot of times

01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:49.320
I'll come up with my lyrics first, but that's

01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:52.280
not a hard and fast rule. Sometimes I'll wake

01:03:52.280 --> 01:03:56.000
up with a melodic idea and just start humming,

01:03:56.079 --> 01:04:00.599
and some kind of rhyme scheme comes into mind,

01:04:00.619 --> 01:04:03.059
and the lyrics write themselves. Other times

01:04:03.059 --> 01:04:07.059
I am just... wrestling with words like every

01:04:07.059 --> 01:04:11.320
day until something materializes that's something

01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:14.579
that I feel comfortable performing in front of

01:04:14.579 --> 01:04:20.000
other people. And I always try my songs out with

01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:23.340
friends or my bandmates before performing them

01:04:23.340 --> 01:04:25.199
on stage. I don't know that I've ever just...

01:04:25.659 --> 01:04:28.400
gone up cold and performed a song that would

01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:31.739
be really brave and I don't know that I'm there

01:04:31.739 --> 01:04:34.619
with with anything yet I just I love to experiment

01:04:34.619 --> 01:04:36.719
with my friends and see what the reaction is

01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:39.760
first and then take it to a jam and and then

01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:41.940
once I've got things polished then I'll be comfortable

01:04:41.940 --> 01:04:45.179
to perform I'm actually performing a new song

01:04:45.179 --> 01:04:48.820
on Friday that I just finished Sunday. Oh, yeah?

01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:51.539
Yeah, and I'm really excited about that. I played

01:04:51.539 --> 01:04:54.159
it for one person, for my friend Barry Sager,

01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:58.079
and he didn't run away. Great sign. You want

01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:02.219
to play it? Right now? Congratulations, though.

01:05:02.579 --> 01:05:04.659
That's so cool. I would definitely say I can

01:05:04.659 --> 01:05:08.269
agree with you that I try to run them. by friends.

01:05:08.369 --> 01:05:10.889
I would say I haven't had the opportunity to

01:05:10.889 --> 01:05:13.809
perform them live or even over, I should do it

01:05:13.809 --> 01:05:15.670
over FaceTime now that I'm thinking about it,

01:05:15.710 --> 01:05:17.750
but I usually, if I ever have a demo, I have

01:05:17.750 --> 01:05:19.409
a small circle of folks where I'm just like,

01:05:19.449 --> 01:05:21.929
check this out, let me know what you think. But

01:05:21.929 --> 01:05:24.789
I think that's so brave to do it that way. The

01:05:24.789 --> 01:05:27.230
same question, but I know you've worked with,

01:05:27.389 --> 01:05:32.489
your music, it feels like you work a lot with

01:05:32.489 --> 01:05:36.210
your producer to create a certain sound. Yeah.

01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:39.320
Sometimes that producer is you, sometimes it's

01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:43.679
not. What is the difference between the intention

01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.239
behind a song when you're self -producing versus

01:05:46.239 --> 01:05:48.719
when you're working in a studio with somebody

01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:51.860
else? Sure, so I think the intention actually

01:05:51.860 --> 01:05:55.139
is the same across all boards. It's more so if

01:05:55.139 --> 01:05:58.010
this song... calls for something that I know

01:05:58.010 --> 01:06:00.570
that I can't sonically provide. A lot of the

01:06:00.570 --> 01:06:03.510
times the music, much like you were saying, will

01:06:03.510 --> 01:06:05.429
start with a hum. I'll wake up and I'll just

01:06:05.429 --> 01:06:08.789
be like, oh, this is stuck in my head. And sometimes

01:06:08.789 --> 01:06:11.190
the lyrics will follow. Sometimes it'll take

01:06:11.190 --> 01:06:14.190
days. Sometimes it'll take minutes. But I know

01:06:14.190 --> 01:06:18.690
that if I want to create a certain sound and

01:06:18.690 --> 01:06:20.690
I'm just like, okay, I can't do this on the piano

01:06:20.690 --> 01:06:22.469
alone and I'm thinking of different elements,

01:06:22.510 --> 01:06:24.449
that's when it's time to bring in the producers.

01:06:26.150 --> 01:06:29.329
So, similar to what Elizabeth was just talking

01:06:29.329 --> 01:06:31.869
about, when... Because I feel like your music

01:06:31.869 --> 01:06:34.730
definitely transcends genres, too. Yeah, it's

01:06:34.730 --> 01:06:38.789
all over the place. Yes. Do you find that...

01:06:38.789 --> 01:06:41.170
And this kind of goes back to you, too, Elizabeth.

01:06:41.710 --> 01:06:43.809
Maybe you're not like, I'm going to sit down

01:06:43.809 --> 01:06:46.449
and write an Irish song. But does sometimes,

01:06:46.670 --> 01:06:48.570
like, maybe your soul feel a little bit Irish?

01:06:48.789 --> 01:06:52.659
Or... Ina, does your soul feel like, maybe I

01:06:52.659 --> 01:06:55.860
just, I am feeling soul music right now. And

01:06:55.860 --> 01:06:58.260
that's, I feel like the best way to express myself.

01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:00.940
Or I really want to tell a story and a folk song

01:07:00.940 --> 01:07:03.780
might be the best way to do that. Or one thing

01:07:03.780 --> 01:07:06.000
I noticed in your music is it's almost like sometimes

01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:08.000
you'll write a folk song and put soul production

01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:10.860
behind it. Or do more of a soul song and then

01:07:10.860 --> 01:07:13.440
add some more like folksy production behind it.

01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:18.440
So how much of that? intentional how much of

01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:20.519
that does that not matter I guess at a certain

01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:24.199
point I act there's this kind of magic that happens

01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:27.980
with songwriting and I think it's true with joke

01:07:27.980 --> 01:07:30.639
writing too a hundred percent true in fact it's

01:07:30.639 --> 01:07:35.039
always in my experience talking to other songwriters

01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:38.219
It's pretty much the same thing. When something

01:07:38.219 --> 01:07:40.519
just sticks, you have that alignment feeling?

01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:43.000
Yeah, like you might have to work out the exact

01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:45.219
wording. Sure. You might have to work out the

01:07:45.219 --> 01:07:49.380
rhythm. But the core of the song hits you. The

01:07:49.380 --> 01:07:50.960
fundamental. And then you can't, it's almost

01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:53.179
like you have to do something with it. You can't

01:07:53.179 --> 01:07:56.000
let it go. You have to get it out of you somehow.

01:07:56.460 --> 01:07:59.659
No, I would say to answer your question, I write

01:07:59.659 --> 01:08:03.639
much like Elizabeth writes. I think... For obviously

01:08:03.639 --> 01:08:06.179
for 25, for 2025, it's very different. But for

01:08:06.179 --> 01:08:09.380
my own music, a lot of it is just meeting the

01:08:09.380 --> 01:08:11.539
need of what I want to say in the moment. And

01:08:11.539 --> 01:08:14.619
of course, because a lot of what I listen to

01:08:14.619 --> 01:08:18.420
is more folk, is more R &B. It's what's programmed

01:08:18.420 --> 01:08:21.819
in my head. So naturally, that's what comes out.

01:08:22.119 --> 01:08:24.899
But I would say in terms of that aha moment,

01:08:25.020 --> 01:08:28.100
I'm not thinking, aha, I'm going to write a country

01:08:28.100 --> 01:08:30.100
hit or aha, I'm going to write an X, Y and Z

01:08:30.100 --> 01:08:32.699
hit. It's just more aha, the story is out. So

01:08:32.699 --> 01:08:35.119
I'm going to kind of shift gears a little bit

01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:37.220
here. Yeah, let's do it. First of all, I feel

01:08:37.220 --> 01:08:40.239
like I could talk to you all for hours. And I

01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:44.579
don't want to take up hours of your time right

01:08:44.579 --> 01:08:48.180
now because that's not what we planned on. Next

01:08:48.180 --> 01:08:53.140
time. But I do want to talk about a couple of

01:08:53.140 --> 01:08:55.680
themes that come up on the podcast pretty frequently.

01:08:56.079 --> 01:08:59.340
So I think one thing that I have found that's

01:08:59.340 --> 01:09:03.020
common among a lot of people, We have this fire

01:09:03.020 --> 01:09:07.500
inside of us. Or darkness is an acceptable way

01:09:07.500 --> 01:09:10.460
of thinking about it. Where that comes from,

01:09:10.479 --> 01:09:13.300
I think, can be very different. Some people I've

01:09:13.300 --> 01:09:16.899
talked to had really stable upbringings, but

01:09:16.899 --> 01:09:20.819
maybe had anxiety internally growing up. Some

01:09:20.819 --> 01:09:26.960
people I've talked to had horribly unstable and

01:09:26.960 --> 01:09:29.520
chaotic upbringings, but maybe still full of

01:09:29.520 --> 01:09:33.569
love, but still chaotic. and not the best environment

01:09:33.569 --> 01:09:37.210
for a child to grow up in. And then some people

01:09:37.210 --> 01:09:39.210
have had a combination. Maybe one was caused

01:09:39.210 --> 01:09:43.050
by the other. But I do think it's pretty uncommon,

01:09:43.369 --> 01:09:45.010
and I don't want to say unheard of or it never

01:09:45.010 --> 01:09:49.250
happens, that an artist is, I live, I'm a perfectly

01:09:49.250 --> 01:09:52.109
well -balanced human. Is there such a thing?

01:09:52.369 --> 01:09:54.890
There's people that pretend they are, at least.

01:09:55.069 --> 01:09:57.430
Or there's, I think, part of it is just being

01:09:57.430 --> 01:10:00.909
complex enough to create. art right for sure

01:10:00.909 --> 01:10:04.430
being being a complex enough human that where

01:10:04.430 --> 01:10:06.609
there's all different strokes to move the world

01:10:06.609 --> 01:10:08.890
there's people that that need to be more mechanically

01:10:08.890 --> 01:10:11.430
minded there's people that need to be more i

01:10:11.430 --> 01:10:13.909
think the creative minded people are usually

01:10:13.909 --> 01:10:17.029
cursed with something there's usually something

01:10:17.029 --> 01:10:20.090
there that causes that it doesn't just come out

01:10:20.090 --> 01:10:25.409
of stability and great being surrounded by grace

01:10:25.409 --> 01:10:28.430
that being said And I think you've touched on

01:10:28.430 --> 01:10:31.909
this a little bit. I feel like what first inspired

01:10:31.909 --> 01:10:34.810
you to start writing songs was a tragedy in your

01:10:34.810 --> 01:10:39.470
life. Do you feel like that is the turning point?

01:10:39.550 --> 01:10:42.010
Or do you feel like you've had other tumultuous

01:10:42.010 --> 01:10:44.770
experiences in your life and that was the turning

01:10:44.770 --> 01:10:49.050
point? Do you feel like it was, oh no, everything's

01:10:49.050 --> 01:10:52.300
been pretty stable, but I'm anxious? or do you

01:10:52.300 --> 01:10:54.800
feel like no that was really that was the catalyst

01:10:54.800 --> 01:10:57.640
and then after that i saw the world differently

01:10:57.640 --> 01:11:01.460
what was like what is where i don't hear you

01:11:01.460 --> 01:11:04.239
arguing with me that darkness exists so where

01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:06.600
does it come where does it come from with you

01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:09.239
you think whatever you're comfortable sharing

01:11:09.239 --> 01:11:12.779
but yeah of course i think when we grow up in

01:11:12.779 --> 01:11:14.840
a household we don't realize the darkness is

01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:17.859
around us until we've had time away from it and

01:11:17.859 --> 01:11:20.199
without going into it too deep i would say i

01:11:20.199 --> 01:11:22.210
had a very lucky childhood. There were a lot

01:11:22.210 --> 01:11:24.229
of things that even some of my close friends

01:11:24.229 --> 01:11:26.750
didn't experience in terms of stability. But

01:11:26.750 --> 01:11:29.170
there was also a lot that happened in our household.

01:11:29.430 --> 01:11:33.789
The 2010 event was a really big one, but it was

01:11:33.789 --> 01:11:37.470
not the first big one that happened in the household

01:11:37.470 --> 01:11:39.970
that shaped who I am, I would say, as an artist,

01:11:40.149 --> 01:11:43.970
shaped maybe the fire. But in terms of how that's

01:11:43.970 --> 01:11:47.619
translated into my music, I think This is so

01:11:47.619 --> 01:11:50.220
cool. Now I'm just having an aha moment. It wasn't

01:11:50.220 --> 01:11:54.199
until that stillness that I felt after graduating

01:11:54.199 --> 01:11:57.619
college and sitting down, until I was able to

01:11:57.619 --> 01:12:01.100
come to peace with my own grief, to come to peace

01:12:01.100 --> 01:12:04.359
with the chaos that I was able to write. And

01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:07.119
so I think a lot of my music is sad, but I try

01:12:07.119 --> 01:12:11.060
to approach it from a different angle, from an

01:12:11.060 --> 01:12:13.500
angle of after the fact, as opposed to in the

01:12:13.500 --> 01:12:15.949
middle of. I don't know if that answers the question.

01:12:16.449 --> 01:12:20.270
No, I think that's, it's approaching it. Yeah,

01:12:20.310 --> 01:12:22.390
in a sense. I would say adoption is a big one.

01:12:22.470 --> 01:12:24.609
So I was adopted from China at the height of

01:12:24.609 --> 01:12:26.630
the One Child Policy Act. And that's something

01:12:26.630 --> 01:12:29.430
that I'm navigating emotionally now as an adult,

01:12:29.529 --> 01:12:32.279
just thinking about, geez, like. I'm getting

01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:35.539
older. I want to be a parent someday. And I'm

01:12:35.539 --> 01:12:37.500
thinking, like, I've never met my birth mom.

01:12:37.600 --> 01:12:39.619
And I don't think there's a great chance that

01:12:39.619 --> 01:12:42.020
I'll ever be able to. And then my parents split

01:12:42.020 --> 01:12:44.420
when I was in college over a very long divorce.

01:12:44.460 --> 01:12:47.279
And so the idea of home and then family members

01:12:47.279 --> 01:12:49.380
and close friends passing and grief have just

01:12:49.380 --> 01:12:54.659
been embedded into my music and my experiences.

01:12:54.680 --> 01:12:58.600
And so I would say grief, adoption, fear of loss

01:12:58.600 --> 01:13:01.000
that has happened are central themes of my music.

01:13:01.640 --> 01:13:04.399
Do you think that some people can struggle with

01:13:04.399 --> 01:13:06.119
those things and they never really turn into

01:13:06.119 --> 01:13:08.760
internal struggles necessarily? They remain,

01:13:09.060 --> 01:13:12.819
but sometimes things like that can develop anxiety

01:13:12.819 --> 01:13:15.500
and depression. Oh, yeah. Are those things that

01:13:15.500 --> 01:13:18.659
you struggle with too? For sure. Or has it been

01:13:18.659 --> 01:13:22.380
mostly external? No, I would say up until college

01:13:22.380 --> 01:13:24.220
and especially during college and even after

01:13:24.220 --> 01:13:28.489
my anxiety. was very high like again when you

01:13:28.489 --> 01:13:30.289
have moments to pause a lot of things hit you

01:13:30.289 --> 01:13:32.510
sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a not

01:13:32.510 --> 01:13:36.109
so great way and so i've i have definitely gone

01:13:36.109 --> 01:13:40.199
through major anxiety to like points where I

01:13:40.199 --> 01:13:42.920
was like on the bathroom floor and couldn't move

01:13:42.920 --> 01:13:46.319
for hours at a time type of anxiety. So yes,

01:13:46.359 --> 01:13:49.220
the darkness definitely manifested and made itself

01:13:49.220 --> 01:13:52.279
at home before I was able to really work through

01:13:52.279 --> 01:13:54.399
it in a way that's translated into my music.

01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:57.279
So do you find that writing music is a way to

01:13:57.279 --> 01:13:59.399
channel some of that anxiety and some of that

01:13:59.399 --> 01:14:02.640
depression into something? that can be more positive

01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:05.880
and productive. Yeah, definitely. Actually, I

01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:09.500
wrote one of the songs on my EP back in 2017,

01:14:09.699 --> 01:14:12.119
years before I had even thought about putting

01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:14.939
out music during an anxiety attack. And I remember

01:14:14.939 --> 01:14:17.880
just the trust fall that I had to do with myself

01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:21.399
to get those words out and onto paper was a huge

01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:23.859
help. And one that I didn't even realize was

01:14:23.859 --> 01:14:27.460
a huge help until after the fact. But yeah, music

01:14:27.460 --> 01:14:30.710
definitely has been a huge outlet for me. in

01:14:30.710 --> 01:14:33.229
terms of validating my own experiences, in terms

01:14:33.229 --> 01:14:36.529
of practicing saying them out loud, too. Growing

01:14:36.529 --> 01:14:40.050
up, do you think performing... It's weird, a

01:14:40.050 --> 01:14:42.420
lot of people that don't perform... The idea

01:14:42.420 --> 01:14:44.760
of performing is like the most anxiety inducing

01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:46.460
thing in the world to them. And then people I

01:14:46.460 --> 01:14:48.800
know with anxiety are like, no, man, I can get

01:14:48.800 --> 01:14:51.180
up there. Did you find like performing to be

01:14:51.180 --> 01:14:54.119
anxiety inducing as a kid or? When I first started,

01:14:54.180 --> 01:14:56.819
yes. Yeah, without a doubt. But again, a lot

01:14:56.819 --> 01:14:58.279
of the stuff that I was performing, actually

01:14:58.279 --> 01:15:00.319
everything I was performing was not my own music.

01:15:00.340 --> 01:15:04.359
So there was less nerves around it. But I would

01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:07.560
say a whole new wave of anxiety hit when I was

01:15:07.560 --> 01:15:09.779
getting to perform my own stuff for the first

01:15:09.779 --> 01:15:14.069
time. So it really sounds like that fire has

01:15:14.069 --> 01:15:16.729
been both internal and external. Oh, for sure.

01:15:17.350 --> 01:15:22.829
How would you say, other than music, what were

01:15:22.829 --> 01:15:25.369
some useful things that you did to tackle? And

01:15:25.369 --> 01:15:27.689
I don't think it ever goes away, but it does

01:15:27.689 --> 01:15:29.970
get better and easier with certain things. And

01:15:29.970 --> 01:15:32.050
it sounds like you've made a lot of progress.

01:15:32.229 --> 01:15:34.369
You talked about a lot of that stuff in the past

01:15:34.369 --> 01:15:37.250
tense. Yes. How did you work through a lot of

01:15:37.250 --> 01:15:39.390
it other than music? Was there things that you

01:15:39.390 --> 01:15:41.680
did that... you thought were really helpful that

01:15:41.680 --> 01:15:44.640
might help other people? Yeah, absolutely. To

01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:47.119
be honest, I think it had to smack me in the

01:15:47.119 --> 01:15:49.000
face. There was a point in time where I was just

01:15:49.000 --> 01:15:50.840
really anxious to the point where I didn't want

01:15:50.840 --> 01:15:52.680
to be here anymore. And I think to get to that

01:15:52.680 --> 01:15:55.699
level, I'd never want or wish that for anyone.

01:15:55.760 --> 01:15:57.979
But sometimes that is that smack that you need

01:15:57.979 --> 01:15:59.800
to be like, yo, I need to take a step back and

01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:03.489
assist. I need to look at everything going on.

01:16:03.590 --> 01:16:06.470
And so for me, that moment was really a big turning

01:16:06.470 --> 01:16:08.670
point. And what that looked like moving forward

01:16:08.670 --> 01:16:11.909
was the cliche stuff. And I hate to say it, but

01:16:11.909 --> 01:16:14.510
this is what worked for me is just like creating

01:16:14.510 --> 01:16:17.590
a morning routine, setting more firm boundaries

01:16:17.590 --> 01:16:20.489
and really sticking by them. And then also a

01:16:20.489 --> 01:16:23.250
big thing for me was taking a dopamine break,

01:16:23.369 --> 01:16:25.909
like thinking about all the ways that I was coping

01:16:25.909 --> 01:16:28.550
to get through anxiety that were actually harming

01:16:28.550 --> 01:16:31.609
me. more than helping it was more of a comfort

01:16:31.609 --> 01:16:34.890
than it was a solution and so being really firm

01:16:34.890 --> 01:16:39.329
with myself in that and then what else being

01:16:39.329 --> 01:16:42.409
selective about who I talked to in these moments

01:16:42.409 --> 01:16:44.810
I think it's really easy when you're spiraling

01:16:44.810 --> 01:16:47.369
to try to grab hold of anything and that's certainly

01:16:47.369 --> 01:16:51.689
not the answer by any means learning to say no

01:16:51.689 --> 01:16:56.500
is really important man yeah Absolutely. Those

01:16:56.500 --> 01:16:58.760
are some of the things in my toolbox that I still

01:16:58.760 --> 01:17:01.399
try to maintain in terms of routine, selectivity

01:17:01.399 --> 01:17:04.920
of who I open up to, and continuing to write

01:17:04.920 --> 01:17:07.619
music too. Thanks for sharing all that with us.

01:17:07.659 --> 01:17:09.420
Yeah, of course. Thank you for asking. Thank

01:17:09.420 --> 01:17:13.239
you, for real. Elizabeth, with you, I know a

01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:15.800
lot of your songs are personal. Do you think

01:17:15.800 --> 01:17:19.199
that your struggles mostly, your fire mostly

01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:22.850
came internally, or do you think... I feel we

01:17:22.850 --> 01:17:25.449
all have things we have. Life is hard, y 'all.

01:17:25.550 --> 01:17:27.750
I don't want to downplay the tragedies that everybody

01:17:27.750 --> 01:17:31.569
goes through, but there's also some people have

01:17:31.569 --> 01:17:34.289
harder upbringings and things like that than

01:17:34.289 --> 01:17:38.149
others. And I think we can all find faults in

01:17:38.149 --> 01:17:40.369
our parents and things like that. We can do that

01:17:40.369 --> 01:17:43.710
all day long. And that's part of what helps us

01:17:43.710 --> 01:17:47.010
be better people and be better parents. How much

01:17:47.010 --> 01:17:50.810
of your struggles do you think are more internalized

01:17:50.810 --> 01:17:53.189
versus the things that have happened in your

01:17:53.189 --> 01:17:56.310
life? Not necessarily just your upbringing, but

01:17:56.310 --> 01:17:59.550
tragedies that have happened around you. I feel

01:17:59.550 --> 01:18:03.310
like we've all lived in particularly strange

01:18:03.310 --> 01:18:07.250
times. From the nature of your adoption to the

01:18:07.250 --> 01:18:10.250
place that we're living now. There's just a lot

01:18:10.250 --> 01:18:13.489
of weird things going on with the powers that

01:18:13.489 --> 01:18:19.529
be in this world. Everybody down to... So when

01:18:19.529 --> 01:18:22.010
you're saying that, I was thinking about this

01:18:22.010 --> 01:18:25.550
little teacup. I went to Italy a couple years

01:18:25.550 --> 01:18:29.850
ago, and I got some espresso, and the cup was

01:18:29.850 --> 01:18:33.069
so... cute. It was one of those teeny tiny little

01:18:33.069 --> 01:18:36.229
espresso shot cups. And it said, may you live

01:18:36.229 --> 01:18:39.090
in interesting times. And I thought that was

01:18:39.090 --> 01:18:42.369
so darling. I had my son take a picture of me

01:18:42.369 --> 01:18:46.510
drinking this. Come to find out that is a curse.

01:18:47.310 --> 01:18:51.130
It was just a foreshadowing. Oh my gosh. Yeah,

01:18:51.210 --> 01:18:54.390
that was back in, oh, I don't remember, 21. I

01:18:54.390 --> 01:18:58.130
think it was after COVID. But I don't know any

01:18:58.130 --> 01:19:02.250
other way to write than to channel and process

01:19:02.250 --> 01:19:07.510
the things that have. put scuff on my soul. And

01:19:07.510 --> 01:19:10.829
just the friction, if you think about where pearls

01:19:10.829 --> 01:19:13.550
come from, it is nothing short of a tumultuous

01:19:13.550 --> 01:19:17.710
journey that garners that treasure. And I feel

01:19:17.710 --> 01:19:20.909
like my songs, the ones that I'm the most proud

01:19:20.909 --> 01:19:26.470
of are a process and they're not done. And sometimes

01:19:26.470 --> 01:19:30.310
the rewrites happen after I've learned some really

01:19:30.310 --> 01:19:34.210
personal lessons. And I'm grateful for every...

01:19:34.220 --> 01:19:37.319
tragedy every heartache and also the really happy

01:19:37.319 --> 01:19:40.000
moments because i've got some really joyous songs

01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:43.279
and and that's its own kind of that's an upper

01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:45.659
and it takes you out of the norm is that harder

01:19:45.659 --> 01:19:48.710
to write about i was just about to ask that Is

01:19:48.710 --> 01:19:51.550
it harder to write a happy song? I think songs

01:19:51.550 --> 01:19:54.050
are just, songs just happen. I'm like mentally

01:19:54.050 --> 01:19:56.250
going through my catalog. How many happy songs

01:19:56.250 --> 01:20:00.609
do I have? I think that I, sometimes the melodies

01:20:00.609 --> 01:20:04.369
are happy and the content is like something kind

01:20:04.369 --> 01:20:07.229
of foreboding or some kind of like. Like Born

01:20:07.229 --> 01:20:11.630
in the USA? Yeah, I didn't write that. So I can't

01:20:11.630 --> 01:20:14.569
speak to that. But I do know that sometimes I'll

01:20:14.569 --> 01:20:18.770
write a hopeful song. almost as a fantasy to

01:20:18.770 --> 01:20:21.949
escape if there's something really tragic happening,

01:20:22.010 --> 01:20:24.569
or if I'm just imagining what's going to come

01:20:24.569 --> 01:20:27.170
out on the other side of this really difficult

01:20:27.170 --> 01:20:30.010
time. So sometimes I can get really inspired

01:20:30.010 --> 01:20:33.750
by happiness as an aspiration. I think if we're

01:20:33.750 --> 01:20:36.390
speaking really honestly, like depression is

01:20:36.390 --> 01:20:39.289
something that I've ridden the waves of over

01:20:39.289 --> 01:20:41.970
the years. And sometimes I can write really profound

01:20:41.970 --> 01:20:45.470
stuff when I'm in a really sad place. I have

01:20:45.470 --> 01:20:47.859
this I've got this really unique relationship

01:20:47.859 --> 01:20:50.899
with my mom where she was writing a lot of songs

01:20:50.899 --> 01:20:54.260
when I was a kid. And it was sometime really

01:20:54.260 --> 01:20:57.199
early and when my kids were babies, she came

01:20:57.199 --> 01:21:01.619
over to visit and she saw an original song that

01:21:01.619 --> 01:21:04.600
I was writing. And it was a murder ballad that

01:21:04.600 --> 01:21:08.640
I'd written about infidelity resulting in somebody

01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:12.060
getting shot. And she looked at this and she's,

01:21:12.079 --> 01:21:14.180
this is why I don't write songs anymore. This

01:21:14.180 --> 01:21:17.720
is so dark. And I don't even know where that

01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:20.399
song came from because I had nothing happening

01:21:20.399 --> 01:21:23.079
in my life at that point. But there was just

01:21:23.079 --> 01:21:26.000
that having young kids and being insecure in

01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:28.479
this very young marriage thing. So it wasn't

01:21:28.479 --> 01:21:31.039
based on true life events, but there was some

01:21:31.039 --> 01:21:34.880
deep seated anxiety and also depression, desperation

01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:37.720
in that. And in no way, shape or form was it

01:21:37.720 --> 01:21:39.770
an open letter to my husband. husband, about

01:21:39.770 --> 01:21:42.869
anything. But I think sometimes the imagination

01:21:42.869 --> 01:21:45.569
can go to places. Sometimes you'll watch a movie

01:21:45.569 --> 01:21:48.510
or you'll read somebody's biography and be really

01:21:48.510 --> 01:21:51.569
taken with the story. A lot of times I'll read

01:21:51.569 --> 01:21:57.430
poetry and since there's no melody with it. It's

01:21:57.430 --> 01:22:02.050
wide open for me to lift ideas or just visual

01:22:02.050 --> 01:22:05.229
schemes that I have. Emily Dickinson is tremendously

01:22:05.229 --> 01:22:08.909
powerful to me in her writing. And she lived

01:22:08.909 --> 01:22:11.750
alone. She was a hermit for many years. And some

01:22:11.750 --> 01:22:14.310
of her most prolific writing came out of that.

01:22:14.510 --> 01:22:17.170
And at the moment of this interview, I'm living

01:22:17.170 --> 01:22:20.270
alone in the woods. And so I think I'm in my

01:22:20.270 --> 01:22:23.329
Emily Dickinson era. But this has been many decades

01:22:23.329 --> 01:22:25.829
in the making because she's been so profoundly

01:22:25.829 --> 01:22:28.119
influential. influential. Some of my favorite

01:22:28.119 --> 01:22:30.779
songs that I've written were after just pouring

01:22:30.779 --> 01:22:33.520
over a lot of her poetry, and then I'll just

01:22:33.520 --> 01:22:36.439
get really inspired. And so I think it comes

01:22:36.439 --> 01:22:39.260
from just all kinds of different threads. And

01:22:39.260 --> 01:22:40.939
sometimes it's the heartache. Sometimes it's

01:22:40.939 --> 01:22:43.239
processing a heartbreak that happened 10 years

01:22:43.239 --> 01:22:45.979
ago, but you still remember the way you felt

01:22:45.979 --> 01:22:48.439
and the way he smelt and the way that everything

01:22:48.439 --> 01:22:51.579
was in that moment when you decided it was over

01:22:51.579 --> 01:22:54.840
or whatever theme of the song was. And I think

01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:57.739
back to So many experiences that I have gratitude

01:22:57.739 --> 01:23:00.779
for, whether they be good or bad, there's really

01:23:00.779 --> 01:23:03.520
no place for judgment when you're making art

01:23:03.520 --> 01:23:06.739
out of them. And I think that is such an essential

01:23:06.739 --> 01:23:10.260
thread for all of us as we're grappling with

01:23:10.260 --> 01:23:13.840
the society that we're living in now, that art

01:23:13.840 --> 01:23:16.279
is truly this place where we can celebrate our

01:23:16.279 --> 01:23:19.539
humanity away from judgments and opinions and

01:23:19.539 --> 01:23:22.970
threads and discussion boards. What we create

01:23:22.970 --> 01:23:27.930
is something higher than we know. One of my dear

01:23:27.930 --> 01:23:30.270
friends, Catherine Bell Long, she passed two

01:23:30.270 --> 01:23:33.470
years ago due to brain cancer, but she and I

01:23:33.470 --> 01:23:36.810
created music and toured for about 10 years and

01:23:36.810 --> 01:23:39.069
talked extensively about writing, and sometimes

01:23:39.069 --> 01:23:42.680
we would write alongside each other. And towards

01:23:42.680 --> 01:23:46.640
the end, her last five years alive, she had this

01:23:46.640 --> 01:23:50.060
tremendous brain tumor that was taking over and

01:23:50.060 --> 01:23:52.699
pushing on all these parts of her brain. And

01:23:52.699 --> 01:23:54.739
we didn't know that was happening, but that was

01:23:54.739 --> 01:23:58.220
what was happening. And the result of that intense

01:23:58.220 --> 01:24:01.180
pressure was a folk opera that she wrote. And

01:24:01.180 --> 01:24:03.359
so I think that that's a testament to some of

01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:06.119
the greatest duress that a human can go through

01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:09.420
can garner tremendous art. Now, do you have to

01:24:09.420 --> 01:24:12.960
have a brain tumor? or anxiety or depression

01:24:12.960 --> 01:24:18.100
to do these things. No, but when you do, there's

01:24:18.100 --> 01:24:21.439
some kind of... portal to your empathy and your

01:24:21.439 --> 01:24:25.199
humanity that opens up and I think that to be

01:24:25.199 --> 01:24:28.899
an artist you have to be willing to push everything

01:24:28.899 --> 01:24:33.039
away and just get in touch with that kind of

01:24:33.039 --> 01:24:36.579
ephemeral place because it's in there and you

01:24:36.579 --> 01:24:38.960
can let it get really clouded up with a lot of

01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:42.500
external forces but to connect with your art

01:24:42.500 --> 01:24:45.119
and to make something that that connects with

01:24:45.119 --> 01:24:49.260
other people like it needs to come from I feel

01:24:49.260 --> 01:24:52.079
my art needs to come from that kind of place.

01:24:52.420 --> 01:24:56.840
It almost sounds like the way an actor who might

01:24:56.840 --> 01:25:02.119
not have alcoholism might approach playing the

01:25:02.119 --> 01:25:04.300
role of somebody with alcoholism, right? And

01:25:04.300 --> 01:25:06.939
the reason I say that is like what you're saying

01:25:06.939 --> 01:25:10.579
is even if you don't have anxiety or depression

01:25:10.579 --> 01:25:14.779
or you're not even struggling with that at the

01:25:14.779 --> 01:25:16.720
moment, you have to put yourself in the place

01:25:16.720 --> 01:25:20.739
to where you can at least, Be compassionate about

01:25:20.739 --> 01:25:24.619
certain aspects of the human condition that allow

01:25:24.619 --> 01:25:27.699
you to be vulnerable enough to really put it

01:25:27.699 --> 01:25:31.239
out there and say something real. Do you think

01:25:31.239 --> 01:25:34.699
that you're... I don't think it's... How do I

01:25:34.699 --> 01:25:37.260
say this? If I'm wrong, tell me. I would love

01:25:37.260 --> 01:25:39.840
to know what the right answer is. I feel like

01:25:39.840 --> 01:25:41.899
I don't know the right answer either, which is

01:25:41.899 --> 01:25:45.380
why I'm stuttering. But what I was going to say

01:25:45.380 --> 01:25:49.619
is that I think... For some songwriters, it may

01:25:49.619 --> 01:25:52.800
not be as personal. And this is from the outside

01:25:52.800 --> 01:25:56.260
looking, and I can't confirm this, but you listen

01:25:56.260 --> 01:25:58.899
to some music and you're just like, this was

01:25:58.899 --> 01:26:02.479
made for a club. You know what I mean? The lyrics

01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:04.060
when I'm listening to it, it's not even that

01:26:04.060 --> 01:26:06.239
it doesn't resonate with me, it's just what really

01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:10.239
went on behind writing this down. So I think

01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:13.390
to her point... It's an important aspect to be

01:26:13.390 --> 01:26:16.149
able to tap into that darker side you were talking

01:26:16.149 --> 01:26:19.630
about, to write empathetic music, to write in

01:26:19.630 --> 01:26:21.630
an honest way. But sometimes I think that looks

01:26:21.630 --> 01:26:24.449
different for everybody. Yeah, I'm thinking about

01:26:24.449 --> 01:26:27.770
B .J. Barham's panel with Chuck Reese at Word

01:26:27.770 --> 01:26:29.810
of South, which I think, Elizabeth, you were

01:26:29.810 --> 01:26:33.789
at, where he was talking about a lot of the times

01:26:33.789 --> 01:26:36.439
he's writing songs that aren't about him. He's

01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:38.760
from a band called American Aquarium, and I've

01:26:38.760 --> 01:26:41.140
known him a little bit for years and years, but

01:26:41.140 --> 01:26:45.659
he was talking about how every song he writes,

01:26:45.680 --> 01:26:48.899
even if it is from another perspective, he has

01:26:48.899 --> 01:26:53.680
to put some lines in there. And I guess what

01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:56.520
I'm wondering is, first of all, how much do you

01:26:56.520 --> 01:27:00.000
write music that is maybe from a character's

01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:02.560
point of view or something like that? Because

01:27:02.560 --> 01:27:04.100
I think that's different than writing, like,

01:27:04.100 --> 01:27:08.020
a song for the club. But also, like, maybe the

01:27:08.020 --> 01:27:11.539
same level of impersonality. And I think that's

01:27:11.539 --> 01:27:12.960
what I was getting at, where it's like, you have

01:27:12.960 --> 01:27:15.539
to be able to relate to these things, even if

01:27:15.539 --> 01:27:18.880
you don't personally suffer with them. But first

01:27:18.880 --> 01:27:21.840
of all, how often do y 'all write songs from,

01:27:21.880 --> 01:27:23.979
like, a different point of view other than your

01:27:23.979 --> 01:27:27.420
own? Or if ever? And then when you do that, if

01:27:27.420 --> 01:27:30.819
you do that, like, how personal do you try to

01:27:30.819 --> 01:27:33.609
make that? I can definitely speak on this one

01:27:33.609 --> 01:27:35.850
because a lot of what I've been shifting towards

01:27:35.850 --> 01:27:38.250
is writing for other artists as well as doing

01:27:38.250 --> 01:27:40.569
sync writing, which is, for those who don't know,

01:27:40.609 --> 01:27:44.789
sync licensing is the license used to pair music

01:27:44.789 --> 01:27:48.729
with film or with TV or with broadcast campaigns.

01:27:49.010 --> 01:27:52.000
And so a lot of that... you're answering a prompt

01:27:52.000 --> 01:27:54.300
to you have to step outside yourself almost in

01:27:54.300 --> 01:27:55.760
that character mode like you were talking about

01:27:55.760 --> 01:27:57.600
and also writing for other artists because at

01:27:57.600 --> 01:27:59.539
that point you're no longer answering to your

01:27:59.539 --> 01:28:01.960
own script or your own story you're answering

01:28:01.960 --> 01:28:04.939
to somebody else's but I would say in my experience

01:28:04.939 --> 01:28:09.659
with that I have like your friend has done tried

01:28:09.659 --> 01:28:13.020
to put elements of myself in it because I find

01:28:13.020 --> 01:28:16.729
it really hard to write if I can't at least in

01:28:16.729 --> 01:28:19.930
a very small sense, find myself in the story.

01:28:20.210 --> 01:28:26.750
And so I think that as a result, the ego, the

01:28:26.750 --> 01:28:29.649
personal has to step out of the room, but a bit

01:28:29.649 --> 01:28:32.149
of it is still in there enough to say, okay,

01:28:32.189 --> 01:28:35.409
my name is on this song and I know it's good

01:28:35.409 --> 01:28:38.210
because I could relate to it in a certain way,

01:28:38.270 --> 01:28:40.630
which means that my pin game was a bit stronger,

01:28:40.770 --> 01:28:43.949
if that makes sense. Do you ever write songs

01:28:43.949 --> 01:28:46.670
from anybody else's perspective, Elizabeth? Or

01:28:46.670 --> 01:28:50.630
is it always... It typically is from my perspective,

01:28:50.649 --> 01:28:53.949
but this is interesting that this is coming up

01:28:53.949 --> 01:28:56.569
because, I don't know, I had a day, an Ancestry

01:28:56.569 --> 01:29:01.430
.com day, and I traced back my roots to, I guess

01:29:01.430 --> 01:29:05.539
it was a great -grandmother in Ireland. And yeah,

01:29:05.619 --> 01:29:09.800
so I just wrote a song based on what I invented

01:29:09.800 --> 01:29:13.359
as her story, based on really scant information

01:29:13.359 --> 01:29:16.300
from Ancestry .com. That's a really cool idea.

01:29:16.659 --> 01:29:20.859
Yeah, yeah. I was just curious. And so her name

01:29:20.859 --> 01:29:24.119
is Annie Baker. There's a kind of a well -known

01:29:24.119 --> 01:29:26.500
fiddle tune called Angela and the Baker. And

01:29:26.500 --> 01:29:29.500
so I was... thinking about this song, Angeline

01:29:29.500 --> 01:29:31.840
the Baker, which is, we've heard it a lot in

01:29:31.840 --> 01:29:34.500
like old time and bluegrass circles around here.

01:29:34.720 --> 01:29:38.180
And so I was like, who came before Angeline the

01:29:38.180 --> 01:29:41.460
Baker? Annie Baker, my great -great -grandmother

01:29:41.460 --> 01:29:45.380
from Ireland. And yeah, I just wrote this song

01:29:45.380 --> 01:29:48.500
like about a week and a half ago and it's not

01:29:48.500 --> 01:29:52.020
done, but it's definitely an Irish tune and it's

01:29:52.020 --> 01:29:56.590
definitely based. on the few facts that I was

01:29:56.590 --> 01:29:59.869
able to garner about her. And then the rest is

01:29:59.869 --> 01:30:03.550
invented based on the family history and how

01:30:03.550 --> 01:30:06.670
it's played out and what I'm imagining the ancestral

01:30:06.670 --> 01:30:09.590
patterns are going back to her. That is such

01:30:09.590 --> 01:30:12.329
a cool idea. It was fun. I never thought to do

01:30:12.329 --> 01:30:15.850
that. Yeah, yeah. Huh. Yeah, and you can invent

01:30:15.850 --> 01:30:19.239
anything you want. Because nobody's there. It's

01:30:19.239 --> 01:30:22.180
such a good reminder. It's making me think about

01:30:22.180 --> 01:30:26.060
the documentary that I want to do and pair it

01:30:26.060 --> 01:30:28.600
with my music about my journey home back to China.

01:30:28.880 --> 01:30:31.460
I think most of the songs that I've written,

01:30:31.619 --> 01:30:34.020
most of which have not been released, much like

01:30:34.020 --> 01:30:36.340
you were talking about, have been more what I

01:30:36.340 --> 01:30:39.819
would say to my family or what I imagine they

01:30:39.819 --> 01:30:43.619
would be versus allowing myself to create a story.

01:30:43.840 --> 01:30:47.939
I really like that idea. Yeah. I think the part

01:30:47.939 --> 01:30:51.840
of what I gained from the process was thinking

01:30:51.840 --> 01:30:56.689
about how she... She left Ireland and she left

01:30:56.689 --> 01:30:59.689
like these rolling green hills and got on a boat,

01:30:59.789 --> 01:31:02.689
not really knowing what was awaiting her in America

01:31:02.689 --> 01:31:06.270
and had this long journey up through New York

01:31:06.270 --> 01:31:09.130
City and then to Cambridge and then eventually

01:31:09.130 --> 01:31:12.670
made her way to the south, which is green rolling

01:31:12.670 --> 01:31:15.850
hills. And so there was this parallel between

01:31:15.850 --> 01:31:19.689
where I live and where she came from. And that's

01:31:19.689 --> 01:31:22.250
these green rolling hills. So there was like

01:31:22.250 --> 01:31:25.039
this personal moment. me thinking about your

01:31:25.039 --> 01:31:27.180
story like you might be able to find some kind

01:31:27.180 --> 01:31:29.939
of connection there's some intersection yeah

01:31:29.939 --> 01:31:32.819
yeah oh i would love to hear that song that you

01:31:32.819 --> 01:31:35.819
were just talking all right i'll work on it okay

01:31:35.819 --> 01:31:39.199
it reminds me a lot of one of my favorite songs

01:31:39.199 --> 01:31:42.819
by the drive -by truckers called ever south where

01:31:42.819 --> 01:31:45.619
he's talking about how originally his family

01:31:45.619 --> 01:31:48.539
came from Ellis Island and from Ireland and then

01:31:48.539 --> 01:31:52.039
eventually moved into Appalachia. And then like

01:31:52.039 --> 01:31:54.699
now he's talking about how he moved from the

01:31:54.699 --> 01:31:57.880
South to Portland, Oregon and things are. Greener

01:31:57.880 --> 01:32:00.659
pastures. But no matter where he goes, like everybody

01:32:00.659 --> 01:32:02.739
knows where he's from because of his accent.

01:32:02.920 --> 01:32:05.340
A similar feel to the Tom Petty Southern Accent

01:32:05.340 --> 01:32:09.000
song. But I think in that case, it's actually,

01:32:09.060 --> 01:32:12.319
even though he's taking on the perspectives of

01:32:12.319 --> 01:32:15.510
his ancestors at points. And it sounds like this

01:32:15.510 --> 01:32:17.250
is the case with you. It's actually maybe one

01:32:17.250 --> 01:32:20.430
of your most personal songs. It may be. I have

01:32:20.430 --> 01:32:22.329
a lot of really personal songs. I don't know

01:32:22.329 --> 01:32:24.210
that. I can't wait to flip through your discovery

01:32:24.210 --> 01:32:27.569
feed. Yeah, likewise. Likewise. Are you on Spotify?

01:32:27.850 --> 01:32:30.649
I am. And your music is as well? All mine is

01:32:30.649 --> 01:32:32.569
under The Adventures of Annabelle Lynn. Everything

01:32:32.569 --> 01:32:35.069
on Spotify. And I'll make sure all of it's plugged

01:32:35.069 --> 01:32:37.270
and linked in the description of this episode.

01:32:37.350 --> 01:32:40.560
That would be great. This episode happened pretty

01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:43.000
organically originally. I was going to just interview

01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:46.260
Ina today. And we were doing soundcheck. And

01:32:46.260 --> 01:32:48.159
Elizabeth was here just to help me out with some

01:32:48.159 --> 01:32:52.539
stuff. And the conversation was already flowing.

01:32:52.619 --> 01:32:55.319
And I was like, let's just do this. And everybody

01:32:55.319 --> 01:32:58.439
was down. So look forward to an episode with

01:32:58.439 --> 01:33:01.119
each of these wonderful ladies on their own as

01:33:01.119 --> 01:33:04.800
well. Because I feel like there's... been wonderful

01:33:04.800 --> 01:33:07.239
benefits to having this together but there's

01:33:07.239 --> 01:33:09.199
also a lot of things that i'd really like to

01:33:09.199 --> 01:33:11.699
talk to you all about not even necessarily individually

01:33:11.699 --> 01:33:14.640
but just when we have more time i want to be

01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:16.859
in the room during hers i won't say a word i'll

01:33:16.859 --> 01:33:19.699
just be like no thank you for creating this space

01:33:19.699 --> 01:33:22.279
and for creating this atmosphere for us i'm this

01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:25.220
is a wonderful i i do want to talk about i try

01:33:25.220 --> 01:33:27.220
to spend the last little bit of my interviews

01:33:27.220 --> 01:33:30.319
allowing everybody to talk about what they're

01:33:30.319 --> 01:33:34.869
doing now what you think is stuff people should

01:33:34.869 --> 01:33:38.069
check out. And then also just anything that you

01:33:38.069 --> 01:33:40.010
want to talk about that we haven't gotten to

01:33:40.010 --> 01:33:43.109
yet where I'm not asking you random questions

01:33:43.109 --> 01:33:46.350
that you didn't even know the answer to before

01:33:46.350 --> 01:33:49.170
you walked in here. That being said, one thing

01:33:49.170 --> 01:33:51.350
that's going on a lot right now, like it just

01:33:51.350 --> 01:33:54.930
got announced today or yesterday, in fact, that

01:33:54.930 --> 01:34:00.600
Timbaland signed his first AI artist. And I just

01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:03.100
want to talk for a few minutes about what y 'all

01:34:03.100 --> 01:34:06.560
think about AI in music. Have you ever used it?

01:34:07.039 --> 01:34:09.460
Or do you want to plead the fifth? That's fine

01:34:09.460 --> 01:34:12.260
too. I don't know. Everybody experiments in college.

01:34:12.279 --> 01:34:16.000
It's fine. I'm crying. But seriously, just my

01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:19.140
hot take, and I'm somebody who's easily convinced

01:34:19.140 --> 01:34:23.420
on facts and good argument on anything, is that

01:34:23.420 --> 01:34:26.460
it's... The same is pretty much anything. It's

01:34:26.460 --> 01:34:28.819
how we use it. It's not inherently good or evil.

01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:32.180
But I also think the billionaires are making

01:34:32.180 --> 01:34:35.500
AI do art for a reason instead of our laundry.

01:34:35.880 --> 01:34:41.960
And I'll... What do y 'all think? I... I have...

01:34:42.579 --> 01:34:46.819
What a curiosity. Like when I first heard that

01:34:46.819 --> 01:34:50.199
you could get a whole therapy session or a song

01:34:50.199 --> 01:34:53.119
from AI, I was like, let's see how this works.

01:34:53.119 --> 01:34:56.140
And spent some intimate hours digging through

01:34:56.140 --> 01:34:59.159
the trenches of AI. And it's not all bad, but

01:34:59.159 --> 01:35:03.920
it feels very canned to me. I typed in Joni Mitchell's

01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:07.710
song and it was very. accurate. The prose had

01:35:07.710 --> 01:35:10.270
all the mechanics of a Joni Mitchell song, but

01:35:10.270 --> 01:35:12.689
the emotion gets sucked out of the room with

01:35:12.689 --> 01:35:15.890
it. And as somebody who's taught middle school

01:35:15.890 --> 01:35:18.710
last year and had a lot of students come up and

01:35:18.710 --> 01:35:23.649
try to pass off AI papers, you can spot the difference.

01:35:23.890 --> 01:35:26.430
I have a minor in English, and so I like to think

01:35:26.430 --> 01:35:29.050
that I've read a lot of books. And sometimes

01:35:29.050 --> 01:35:33.130
it's a little hazy when they put their own spin

01:35:33.130 --> 01:35:39.239
on it. But as an artist, I don't, I'm not writing

01:35:39.239 --> 01:35:44.510
for... for a company or a record deal. I'm writing

01:35:44.510 --> 01:35:49.189
for me personally and for the musicians that

01:35:49.189 --> 01:35:52.170
I play with and the audiences that we perform

01:35:52.170 --> 01:35:56.310
for. I'm writing to build community. And I thrive

01:35:56.310 --> 01:36:00.149
on music that the people around me are creating

01:36:00.149 --> 01:36:04.649
or covering. And so my experience of music is

01:36:04.649 --> 01:36:07.010
something that's very live and in the moment.

01:36:07.130 --> 01:36:09.729
And when my band Adventures of Annabelle Lynn

01:36:09.729 --> 01:36:12.560
was recording, It was still really important

01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:15.560
to have a CD and to have a product that you could

01:36:15.560 --> 01:36:18.380
put in people's hands because not everybody had

01:36:18.380 --> 01:36:22.180
Spotify and cars that supported that technology.

01:36:22.340 --> 01:36:26.060
CD players. CDs were it. It was so important

01:36:26.060 --> 01:36:29.739
to have a CD. And we released our second album

01:36:29.739 --> 01:36:33.859
in 2018. And after the pandemic, all of a sudden,

01:36:33.880 --> 01:36:37.680
it was not as important to have a physical album

01:36:37.680 --> 01:36:43.100
to sell to people. And I noticed that we were

01:36:43.100 --> 01:36:48.100
financially making a lot more money off our performances

01:36:48.100 --> 01:36:50.880
and our t -shirts and our koozies. We wear our

01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:53.880
CDs. And we had financed all of our recording

01:36:53.880 --> 01:36:56.979
projects with the sale of merchandise. So we

01:36:56.979 --> 01:36:59.449
had to really restructure things. to respond

01:36:59.449 --> 01:37:03.029
to that. And the joy for music for me has always

01:37:03.029 --> 01:37:07.170
been in the live performance. And if there's

01:37:07.170 --> 01:37:09.710
a silver lining to the way that music is being

01:37:09.710 --> 01:37:12.789
distributed and the way that AI is impacting

01:37:12.789 --> 01:37:16.869
things, it's that... There is, for me, like a

01:37:16.869 --> 01:37:19.810
kind of a reinforcement of the idea that the

01:37:19.810 --> 01:37:21.949
live performance and the connections that we

01:37:21.949 --> 01:37:26.310
make in those musically creative spaces, that's

01:37:26.310 --> 01:37:30.189
where it happens. And it, for me, takes the industry

01:37:30.189 --> 01:37:33.939
piece out of it, takes the monetization. out

01:37:33.939 --> 01:37:37.619
of it and so music for me now more than ever

01:37:37.619 --> 01:37:40.800
is about the people the ways that we're creating

01:37:40.800 --> 01:37:43.579
the ways that we're connecting through our music

01:37:43.579 --> 01:37:48.619
so ai be damned ai doesn't do that for me music

01:37:48.619 --> 01:37:51.539
to me is about it's about connections it's about

01:37:51.539 --> 01:37:57.270
that very important, creative expression that

01:37:57.270 --> 01:38:00.189
we have and that we owe to ourselves and each

01:38:00.189 --> 01:38:03.670
other. Above all, turning off a device and looking

01:38:03.670 --> 01:38:06.949
into somebody's eyes and singing, to me, will

01:38:06.949 --> 01:38:09.729
always be the most important thing. I'm thinking,

01:38:09.850 --> 01:38:13.890
so I have a friend who is a music therapist out

01:38:13.890 --> 01:38:16.789
in Fort Collins at Colorado State University,

01:38:16.869 --> 01:38:21.149
and she's developing these AI systems to deliver

01:38:21.149 --> 01:38:24.770
music therapy to places that are super rural.

01:38:25.010 --> 01:38:30.810
And it's so cool. It is so cool. And the potential

01:38:30.810 --> 01:38:33.729
is there to really help a lot of people that

01:38:33.729 --> 01:38:36.890
can't otherwise access that. If there's someone

01:38:36.890 --> 01:38:39.010
sitting on the other side of that, they can cue

01:38:39.010 --> 01:38:42.640
into those subtleties. And so I applaud her work

01:38:42.640 --> 01:38:44.939
and I think that it's brilliant and it has huge

01:38:44.939 --> 01:38:48.939
potential. But then I think back to moments that

01:38:48.939 --> 01:38:52.079
I've sat with people in hospice and how I've

01:38:52.079 --> 01:38:54.520
been able to hold their hand while I'm singing

01:38:54.520 --> 01:38:59.159
them a song and how vital connection is in those

01:38:59.159 --> 01:39:02.960
moments that are just so delicate and so tender.

01:39:04.199 --> 01:39:06.659
I don't think that AI will ever be able to replace

01:39:06.659 --> 01:39:09.640
that. And I know that with evidence and with

01:39:09.640 --> 01:39:13.859
truth that in moments of death and illness, that's

01:39:13.859 --> 01:39:17.000
how much it matters. So in early childhood and

01:39:17.000 --> 01:39:20.319
in just joyful moments of getting body around

01:39:20.319 --> 01:39:25.180
the fire at the bar, like that to me is so important.

01:39:25.300 --> 01:39:28.260
And for those that can't afford therapy, you

01:39:28.260 --> 01:39:32.060
can definitely. Order a pint and go sing some

01:39:32.060 --> 01:39:35.239
Skinner down at the coast. AI can't do that.

01:39:35.399 --> 01:39:38.399
I guess my next question, though, is more about

01:39:38.399 --> 01:39:41.020
using AI as a tool rather than as a creator.

01:39:41.319 --> 01:39:44.600
So there's a lot of ways that AI can help with

01:39:44.600 --> 01:39:48.939
production, with recording. Once again, they

01:39:48.939 --> 01:39:52.000
are jobs that were previously done by human beings.

01:39:52.060 --> 01:39:54.579
And I do think that there is an element of that

01:39:54.579 --> 01:39:58.060
goes away no matter what stage, whether it's

01:39:58.060 --> 01:40:01.569
the recording. or the producing but not every

01:40:01.569 --> 01:40:05.710
artist has the production skills or the ability

01:40:05.710 --> 01:40:11.010
to pay for studio time or whatever and i do think

01:40:11.010 --> 01:40:16.010
ai used correctly can actually empower artists

01:40:16.010 --> 01:40:20.350
to make their music sound closer to what they

01:40:20.350 --> 01:40:23.890
really want it to sound like but i also think

01:40:23.890 --> 01:40:26.229
it's like the beginning stage right like the

01:40:26.229 --> 01:40:29.479
moment you can afford a real producer the moment

01:40:29.479 --> 01:40:31.939
you can afford a real graphic designer the moment

01:40:31.939 --> 01:40:36.000
like any of those things cool you should do that

01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:38.520
100 i think your work's only going to get better

01:40:38.520 --> 01:40:40.739
when you do that but what do you think about

01:40:40.739 --> 01:40:43.829
using those as tools at all do you think The

01:40:43.829 --> 01:40:46.310
answer is no, go play live until you can afford

01:40:46.310 --> 01:40:49.029
studio time. And that's a legit answer. I don't

01:40:49.029 --> 01:40:51.250
think there's a wrong answer here. That's been

01:40:51.250 --> 01:40:56.310
my path. But like I said, my last formal recording

01:40:56.310 --> 01:41:00.489
was pre -AI. And so there are tools that I use

01:41:00.489 --> 01:41:05.750
now that do incorporate elements of AI, but I'm

01:41:05.750 --> 01:41:08.869
still very much... I am using them as a tool.

01:41:09.090 --> 01:41:11.930
And in my interaction with technology, that's

01:41:11.930 --> 01:41:14.670
always the question in my mind. Is this a tool

01:41:14.670 --> 01:41:18.189
for me or am I becoming a tool for it? And so

01:41:18.189 --> 01:41:20.689
I don't know. I'm sure it's going to evolve.

01:41:21.050 --> 01:41:23.289
But there are certain tenets that are really

01:41:23.289 --> 01:41:27.670
important to me as an artist and a human. But

01:41:27.670 --> 01:41:33.670
I am also like very much an alien in this field.

01:41:33.789 --> 01:41:36.010
Well, you minored in English, right? yeah were

01:41:36.010 --> 01:41:39.649
you allowed to use spellcheck we were okay were

01:41:39.649 --> 01:41:43.930
you allowed to use wikipedia didn't exist yet

01:41:43.930 --> 01:41:46.869
i'm not trying to hate you but my point is like

01:41:46.869 --> 01:41:50.189
when i was in college like spellcheck varied

01:41:50.189 --> 01:41:53.430
depending on what we were doing or even or like

01:41:53.430 --> 01:41:56.029
middle school like spelling is like a thing right

01:41:56.029 --> 01:41:59.029
that you have to learn i think about the classic

01:41:59.029 --> 01:42:02.869
you probably never heard this you know but elizabeth

01:42:02.869 --> 01:42:06.140
and i In school, all the time, from our math

01:42:06.140 --> 01:42:08.100
teacher. It's not like you're going to be walking

01:42:08.100 --> 01:42:10.119
around with a calculator in your pocket all the

01:42:10.119 --> 01:42:12.399
goddamn time. Nope, because by the time I was

01:42:12.399 --> 01:42:14.699
taking math courses, guess what was in our pockets?

01:42:14.859 --> 01:42:17.539
On the school list for purchase. And that's what's

01:42:17.539 --> 01:42:21.119
in our pockets all the time now. But in a way,

01:42:21.260 --> 01:42:24.100
like... There is absolutely a correlation in

01:42:24.100 --> 01:42:27.279
what you're talking about. A calculator displaces

01:42:27.279 --> 01:42:30.270
some work for mathematicians. Now, I think the

01:42:30.270 --> 01:42:32.890
real issue is that as the work for these people

01:42:32.890 --> 01:42:38.430
has been decreased by technology, the expectations

01:42:38.430 --> 01:42:43.149
by the powers that be, corporate overlords, the

01:42:43.149 --> 01:42:45.869
worker has never gotten any of that time back.

01:42:45.989 --> 01:42:50.510
The workday is the same as it was pre any of

01:42:50.510 --> 01:42:53.229
this technology. Workers are just expected to

01:42:53.229 --> 01:42:56.409
be more productive and people get displaced because

01:42:56.409 --> 01:43:01.710
of it. The calculator, as a result of that system,

01:43:01.909 --> 01:43:05.170
certainly displaced mathematicians. Certainly

01:43:05.170 --> 01:43:08.750
graphic artists that were more production artist

01:43:08.750 --> 01:43:12.050
types. Maybe not creative, but more production

01:43:12.050 --> 01:43:14.710
artists. First of all, there were like all the

01:43:14.710 --> 01:43:17.289
Disney people painting the backgrounds for the

01:43:17.289 --> 01:43:20.210
old animations. They all had cancer. But they

01:43:20.210 --> 01:43:23.229
also, those jobs don't exist anymore. I don't

01:43:23.229 --> 01:43:25.750
know what the right thing is. My point is that...

01:43:26.090 --> 01:43:31.550
I think AI is here, and we can't deny it. We

01:43:31.550 --> 01:43:34.869
can't whatever. I think we have to regulate it

01:43:34.869 --> 01:43:37.750
in a way that it hasn't been regulated by anybody

01:43:37.750 --> 01:43:41.970
yet. I think Ina's probably got some keen ideas

01:43:41.970 --> 01:43:44.430
about this. Yeah, I really want to know, as somebody

01:43:44.430 --> 01:43:49.090
who grew up knowing that technology was always

01:43:49.090 --> 01:43:53.989
available, and we're really not that far apart,

01:43:54.090 --> 01:43:57.720
but... That 10 years is like crucially different.

01:43:57.899 --> 01:44:00.100
Yeah, especially with the technology and the

01:44:00.100 --> 01:44:02.659
way that it's sorted. Yeah, for sure. The difference

01:44:02.659 --> 01:44:08.460
between 86 and 96 is crazy. Yes, for sure. In

01:44:08.460 --> 01:44:11.000
a way that humans have never experienced before.

01:44:11.159 --> 01:44:13.560
So I do think you have probably a really unique

01:44:13.560 --> 01:44:16.340
perspective on all this. yeah i would say i have

01:44:16.340 --> 01:44:19.840
a lot of feelings about ai for certain and like

01:44:19.840 --> 01:44:22.100
we've been talking about just like any tool it

01:44:22.100 --> 01:44:24.380
can be used as a tool truly and it can also be

01:44:24.380 --> 01:44:26.899
weaponized and i loved that your central point

01:44:26.899 --> 01:44:29.579
was about connection and the beauty in that and

01:44:29.579 --> 01:44:33.189
what i think about when i think about using Even

01:44:33.189 --> 01:44:35.729
AI in a way that it's like you were talking about

01:44:35.729 --> 01:44:38.050
a stepping stool to get to the producers. What

01:44:38.050 --> 01:44:39.989
happens when it's so comfortable that you're

01:44:39.989 --> 01:44:42.649
working with AI that you don't have to reach

01:44:42.649 --> 01:44:44.949
out to a producer, that it just becomes convenient

01:44:44.949 --> 01:44:47.069
or easy or cheaper to the point where you're

01:44:47.069 --> 01:44:49.949
losing that connection? For me, the way I use

01:44:49.949 --> 01:44:55.029
AI for music and not for music is truly to help

01:44:55.029 --> 01:44:57.409
streamline things that I find are repetitive

01:44:57.409 --> 01:45:00.710
for myself. or for things that I don't know about.

01:45:00.970 --> 01:45:03.989
I was actually in a recording session like two

01:45:03.989 --> 01:45:07.829
weeks ago, and our producer pulled up Suno AI.

01:45:07.930 --> 01:45:10.689
This was the application that was put out by

01:45:10.689 --> 01:45:12.609
Timberland and his team. And I remember in my

01:45:12.609 --> 01:45:14.270
stomach, I was just like, what are you doing?

01:45:14.369 --> 01:45:17.569
But it was just that kind of preconceived judgment

01:45:17.569 --> 01:45:21.819
of... How dare we take away the creative process?

01:45:22.079 --> 01:45:24.699
But then he pulled up different sound samples

01:45:24.699 --> 01:45:27.640
and it just streamlined the process of, okay,

01:45:27.699 --> 01:45:30.659
this is a sound we can explore. And it was really

01:45:30.659 --> 01:45:34.210
using it as a tool as opposed to... boom, we

01:45:34.210 --> 01:45:36.069
found the sound. All we have to do is replicate

01:45:36.069 --> 01:45:38.090
it. And I think that's when it gets dangerous.

01:45:38.329 --> 01:45:41.449
Like in the future, I see myself using Suno AI

01:45:41.449 --> 01:45:44.170
to be really honest with you in finding different

01:45:44.170 --> 01:45:47.289
sounds, but then making sure that I'm not stopping

01:45:47.289 --> 01:45:49.770
there, that I'm taking it to a person, that I'm

01:45:49.770 --> 01:45:53.270
taking it to a team of trusted producers. I think

01:45:53.270 --> 01:45:56.489
that AI, because it's growing so quickly too,

01:45:56.609 --> 01:45:59.590
you have to consider also the ethics and the

01:45:59.590 --> 01:46:02.029
copyright side of it too. Because at what point

01:46:02.029 --> 01:46:03.600
are all of these companies company is going to

01:46:03.600 --> 01:46:06.460
say, oh, you know what? This has AI on it. So

01:46:06.460 --> 01:46:10.840
actually we own X percentage of the song and

01:46:10.840 --> 01:46:13.640
so on and so forth. And so it's really interesting

01:46:13.640 --> 01:46:17.460
to navigate the technology that's moving so,

01:46:17.520 --> 01:46:20.159
so quickly, faster than we can regulate it, faster

01:46:20.159 --> 01:46:23.319
than we can create parameters and safety nets

01:46:23.319 --> 01:46:27.279
for things. For me, I know that my lyrics, because

01:46:27.279 --> 01:46:30.319
they're so personal, will never come from AI

01:46:30.319 --> 01:46:34.560
for my own. But I think some people maybe who

01:46:34.560 --> 01:46:37.659
have a tough time getting their words out can

01:46:37.659 --> 01:46:41.000
lean on AI and say, this is what I want to say.

01:46:41.079 --> 01:46:43.399
But it's as long as they don't stop with what

01:46:43.399 --> 01:46:45.359
AI provides. Kind of like your students, too.

01:46:45.640 --> 01:46:48.460
People who are looking to write a paper. AI,

01:46:48.520 --> 01:46:50.539
I think, is a great tool to give you a frame

01:46:50.539 --> 01:46:53.439
and to expose you also to things that you might

01:46:53.439 --> 01:46:55.859
not have also been thinking about. But if you

01:46:55.859 --> 01:46:58.479
stop there and let it speak for you, that's when

01:46:58.479 --> 01:47:01.350
I think it gets really dangerous. What about

01:47:01.350 --> 01:47:03.890
when, and we'll move on from this kind of topic

01:47:03.890 --> 01:47:05.710
here in a second and just talk about current

01:47:05.710 --> 01:47:08.630
projects here to wrap things up. But how much

01:47:08.630 --> 01:47:10.390
of the internet do you feel like when you put

01:47:10.390 --> 01:47:13.590
your content out there, how much, and I'm asking

01:47:13.590 --> 01:47:15.369
you, this is someone who I know like streams

01:47:15.369 --> 01:47:17.149
a lot. You do a lot. You stream a lot of your

01:47:17.149 --> 01:47:19.170
recording sessions. You do a lot of Instagram

01:47:19.170 --> 01:47:21.550
interactions and things like that. It's so nice

01:47:21.550 --> 01:47:23.210
that you say that because I feel like I've been

01:47:23.210 --> 01:47:25.609
lacking. So that's awesome. No, I think. Yeah,

01:47:25.609 --> 01:47:27.670
but I do try to create. I feel like I could learn

01:47:27.670 --> 01:47:31.479
a lot from you in that area for sure. I ask you

01:47:31.479 --> 01:47:35.439
this because, like, how much of that, the internet

01:47:35.439 --> 01:47:37.640
right now, it's, like, a lot of people think

01:47:37.640 --> 01:47:41.020
that it's, like, the interaction, the engagement

01:47:41.020 --> 01:47:43.739
is what they call it. That's what the kids are

01:47:43.739 --> 01:47:45.420
saying. That's what the kids are saying now in

01:47:45.420 --> 01:47:49.039
the marketing analytics rooms. Good God. The

01:47:49.039 --> 01:47:51.960
engagement, a lot of it is AI generated. It's

01:47:51.960 --> 01:47:54.960
all AI slop. You go on Facebook and you look

01:47:54.960 --> 01:47:57.699
at an ad. Or you might not notice it was an ad

01:47:57.699 --> 01:48:00.180
until you realize that all the comments seem

01:48:00.180 --> 01:48:03.619
to be written by robots. But have you ever watched

01:48:03.619 --> 01:48:06.659
a producer fix drums? I feel like yes. Not off

01:48:06.659 --> 01:48:08.159
the top of my head, but I feel like yes. And

01:48:08.159 --> 01:48:10.100
especially like in top 40 music, they're trying

01:48:10.100 --> 01:48:13.380
to get it perfect. They're basically trying to

01:48:13.380 --> 01:48:15.340
take humanity. Oh, in terms of mixing and mastering?

01:48:15.460 --> 01:48:18.119
Oh, yeah, I have watched. Yeah, like a producer

01:48:18.119 --> 01:48:21.100
trying to fix drums. Absolutely. They're almost

01:48:21.100 --> 01:48:26.239
trying to make it robotic way. Sometimes. In

01:48:26.239 --> 01:48:28.859
the sense that, and the reason I say that is

01:48:28.859 --> 01:48:31.060
they want to find the perfect snare sound and

01:48:31.060 --> 01:48:33.020
replace every snare in the song with that snare

01:48:33.020 --> 01:48:38.899
sound. They want to find the perfect fill that

01:48:38.899 --> 01:48:41.800
he recorded 12 times and use that one. But not

01:48:41.800 --> 01:48:43.420
only that, they want to put it all on a grid.

01:48:44.100 --> 01:48:48.979
And so, like, it, in a way, I almost think that...

01:48:49.310 --> 01:48:52.369
The way AI produces music and the way that top

01:48:52.369 --> 01:48:55.430
40 music is produced is not that different. Oh,

01:48:55.449 --> 01:48:57.270
for sure, because it's trying to answer to what's

01:48:57.270 --> 01:48:59.170
most successful. But that's what you have to

01:48:59.170 --> 01:49:02.210
ask. But I think that's why AI is producing music

01:49:02.210 --> 01:49:05.289
that way, too. Because AI is trained by the algorithm

01:49:05.289 --> 01:49:08.489
of the music that's most successful. And I'm

01:49:08.489 --> 01:49:10.989
not saying this. I just think all I'm pointing

01:49:10.989 --> 01:49:14.859
out is that. At a certain point, humans have

01:49:14.859 --> 01:49:18.859
tried to create perfection in production. I'm

01:49:18.859 --> 01:49:22.859
questioning not whether or not AI is useful in

01:49:22.859 --> 01:49:24.939
achieving that, but whether or not that goal

01:49:24.939 --> 01:49:28.359
is useful at all. Because I think when Elizabeth

01:49:28.359 --> 01:49:31.239
talked about what's wrong with AI, you could

01:49:31.239 --> 01:49:33.340
have said most of those things about a lot of

01:49:33.340 --> 01:49:37.359
producers out there that try and make the drums

01:49:37.359 --> 01:49:42.529
sound perfect. almost sound not human anymore

01:49:42.529 --> 01:49:46.729
because it's so perfect. I would actually disagree

01:49:46.729 --> 01:49:50.010
because I think at least my interpretation of

01:49:50.010 --> 01:49:52.310
what Elizabeth was stating was that at the centerfold

01:49:52.310 --> 01:49:54.649
of what producers are doing, whether we agree

01:49:54.649 --> 01:49:57.090
with it or not, is that it's coming from them.

01:49:57.229 --> 01:50:00.970
It's coming from, and of course we are a reflection

01:50:00.970 --> 01:50:03.130
of everything that we're taking in, but at the

01:50:03.130 --> 01:50:05.270
end of the day, it's a person making the decision

01:50:05.270 --> 01:50:08.420
as opposed to a machine. I agree with that. I

01:50:08.420 --> 01:50:12.060
think though what I'm getting at is more probably

01:50:12.060 --> 01:50:15.140
something that neither of y 'all or me have directly

01:50:15.140 --> 01:50:18.000
encountered with a producer. But if you listen

01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:22.859
to a lot of music that people might call overproduced,

01:50:22.920 --> 01:50:27.239
I think those criticisms that Elizabeth was levying

01:50:27.239 --> 01:50:30.840
at AI -produced music could be pretty applicable

01:50:30.840 --> 01:50:34.220
to a lot of that overproduced music. And that

01:50:34.220 --> 01:50:37.899
started with relying on technology. In the first

01:50:37.899 --> 01:50:40.920
place. Tools is what created all of that in a

01:50:40.920 --> 01:50:42.680
lot of ways. But even before we were working

01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:45.680
on a DAW or bringing in different plugins, I

01:50:45.680 --> 01:50:47.899
would imagine that there were picky artists.

01:50:48.970 --> 01:50:53.130
and sound engineers before Dawes were here that

01:50:53.130 --> 01:50:55.510
were trying every different avenue, trying to

01:50:55.510 --> 01:50:57.369
perfect the sound, whether it was picking up

01:50:57.369 --> 01:50:59.210
a different instrument or picking up a different

01:50:59.210 --> 01:51:02.409
type of equipment. I agree with that 100%. I

01:51:02.409 --> 01:51:04.149
guess what I'm getting at, and I think what you

01:51:04.149 --> 01:51:07.130
just said helps me figure out exactly what I'm

01:51:07.130 --> 01:51:09.970
getting at, and it's that the idea of perfection

01:51:09.970 --> 01:51:13.090
changed. What do you think, Elizabeth? Because

01:51:13.090 --> 01:51:15.399
I think your idea of perfection... I think your

01:51:15.399 --> 01:51:18.140
idea of perfection is like a very human one and

01:51:18.140 --> 01:51:20.880
like authentic and real. And I'm looking at Elizabeth

01:51:20.880 --> 01:51:24.140
as I say this. And yours is too, Ina. What I'm

01:51:24.140 --> 01:51:27.899
saying is that like at a certain point, even

01:51:27.899 --> 01:51:31.619
humans can start to make robotic decisions because

01:51:31.619 --> 01:51:36.380
they have no constraints. Yeah, I think I was

01:51:36.380 --> 01:51:39.680
talking about using AI in the creation process

01:51:39.680 --> 01:51:44.020
and using AI in the recording process is a different.

01:51:44.590 --> 01:51:49.340
animal to me. And I've been in... In the studio

01:51:49.340 --> 01:51:51.680
where we're using Pro Tools and we're like, oh,

01:51:51.680 --> 01:51:54.420
like that perfect sound that you just did on

01:51:54.420 --> 01:51:56.520
your bass with that. That is what we're going

01:51:56.520 --> 01:51:58.260
to do for the other. We're just going to cut

01:51:58.260 --> 01:52:00.659
and paste and put it here and here. And it felt,

01:52:00.779 --> 01:52:04.159
oh, like that's not exactly what I did, but okay.

01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:08.319
Yeah. But that's the joy of that medium is that

01:52:08.319 --> 01:52:11.760
you can lift and you can do all these things

01:52:11.760 --> 01:52:16.079
to make it studio perfect. Before I had that

01:52:16.079 --> 01:52:19.960
studio recording experience, I just took it for

01:52:19.960 --> 01:52:22.079
what it was. I just thought that artists went

01:52:22.079 --> 01:52:24.340
into the studio and recorded these absolutely

01:52:24.340 --> 01:52:27.119
perfect things. And wow, how did they do that?

01:52:27.199 --> 01:52:30.960
It never sounds like that at the concert. It

01:52:30.960 --> 01:52:32.899
never sounds like that when I try to play it

01:52:32.899 --> 01:52:38.439
back. It's just a more genuine experience to

01:52:38.439 --> 01:52:41.640
understand how that music is creative. But then

01:52:41.640 --> 01:52:44.359
once you're like, okay, like they, if somebody's

01:52:44.359 --> 01:52:46.380
making that admission, yeah, like I've got this

01:52:46.380 --> 01:52:50.479
AI entity creating music on this album and like

01:52:50.479 --> 01:52:52.880
we're all in cahoots with that, then that's great.

01:52:52.979 --> 01:52:56.739
Now we know what the potential is for that sound

01:52:56.739 --> 01:53:00.300
and that artist to interact. I think that having

01:53:00.300 --> 01:53:03.850
that clarity, like... informs the listener. That's

01:53:03.850 --> 01:53:06.729
what this sounds like. I think back to in the

01:53:06.729 --> 01:53:11.010
early 2000s when I was go into a lot of jam band

01:53:11.010 --> 01:53:13.329
shows. And there was always this moment of we'd

01:53:13.329 --> 01:53:15.130
all get there and we'd be like, Oh my God, this

01:53:15.130 --> 01:53:17.750
band is so much better live than in the studio.

01:53:18.270 --> 01:53:20.970
And there were a lot of bands that had this,

01:53:20.970 --> 01:53:24.869
like this way of transcending whatever was happening

01:53:24.869 --> 01:53:27.250
in the moment. And so all of a sudden we were

01:53:27.250 --> 01:53:29.069
like a part of that. And there's this audience

01:53:29.069 --> 01:53:32.029
performer interaction and then they would get

01:53:32.029 --> 01:53:33.750
into the studio and it just felt really canned

01:53:33.750 --> 01:53:37.270
and perfect and polished. That's so true. Live

01:53:37.270 --> 01:53:40.090
music is so much. It's so much. better and that

01:53:40.090 --> 01:53:44.630
AI can't do that AI cannot read a room and so

01:53:44.630 --> 01:53:47.569
I think like initially when you asked the question

01:53:47.569 --> 01:53:50.170
I was thinking about that but thinking about

01:53:50.170 --> 01:53:53.189
all of the ways that it changes production the

01:53:53.189 --> 01:53:55.090
recording side of things like that's definitely

01:53:55.090 --> 01:53:58.470
a different spin on what AI is and what the potential

01:53:58.470 --> 01:54:00.970
and the pitfalls are and I think what you've

01:54:00.970 --> 01:54:04.510
gotten after is that there's a difference between

01:54:04.510 --> 01:54:09.260
using tools whether it be ai or anything else

01:54:09.260 --> 01:54:15.460
but to achieve the artist's vision of a song

01:54:15.460 --> 01:54:20.600
rather than trying to make it sound perfect yeah

01:54:20.600 --> 01:54:24.060
and when i say perfect there's no mistakes i

01:54:24.060 --> 01:54:26.560
think back to like almost famous and he's talking

01:54:26.560 --> 01:54:29.699
about oh it's the woos in the songs that we love

01:54:29.699 --> 01:54:33.069
the little mistakes there's that woo And those

01:54:33.069 --> 01:54:35.529
are the things, those are the human moments that

01:54:35.529 --> 01:54:38.569
make us really connect with those artists. I

01:54:38.569 --> 01:54:41.489
want to end this conversation by saying AI is

01:54:41.489 --> 01:54:44.010
just as new to us as it is to everybody else.

01:54:44.069 --> 01:54:45.890
And I don't think any of us have a firm stance

01:54:45.890 --> 01:54:49.039
on anything that we just talked about. This was

01:54:49.039 --> 01:54:51.520
just like an exploratory conversation. I'm going

01:54:51.520 --> 01:54:55.800
to go explore AI. Truth be told, I haven't dove

01:54:55.800 --> 01:54:57.779
into that for a little while. If people want

01:54:57.779 --> 01:55:01.340
to explore your music, Elizabeth, where can they

01:55:01.340 --> 01:55:04.380
find it? That was a fire cycle. I see what you

01:55:04.380 --> 01:55:07.640
did there. And I'll take the bait and tell you.

01:55:07.760 --> 01:55:10.720
So the Adventures of Annabelle Lynn is on Spotify.

01:55:11.039 --> 01:55:14.380
And that was a band that I was touring with from

01:55:14.380 --> 01:55:20.329
about 2010 to 2012. I think I did see a higher

01:55:20.329 --> 01:55:22.310
percentage of your overall shows than the drive

01:55:22.310 --> 01:55:25.649
-by truckers. Oh, yeah. And there's a whole lot

01:55:25.649 --> 01:55:28.430
of YouTube content with us on there. Currently,

01:55:28.489 --> 01:55:32.250
I post all my shows on Facebook and Instagram

01:55:32.250 --> 01:55:34.970
occasionally, but I play a whole lot around the

01:55:34.970 --> 01:55:37.909
Tallahassee area. I teach music. I also teach

01:55:37.909 --> 01:55:40.449
over at the Spirit of the Suwannee Kids music

01:55:40.449 --> 01:55:42.729
camp and perform at the festivals over there

01:55:42.729 --> 01:55:46.180
regularly. So a lot of regional stuff. When you

01:55:46.180 --> 01:55:50.460
play live nowadays, how much of it is super planned

01:55:50.460 --> 01:55:52.520
and how much of it are you up there? I don't

01:55:52.520 --> 01:55:54.100
want to say winging it because I've never seen

01:55:54.100 --> 01:55:57.300
you look like you're winging it at all. But improvising

01:55:57.300 --> 01:55:59.380
and going with the flow of what the crowd is

01:55:59.380 --> 01:56:02.779
responding to and things like that. Yeah, I...

01:56:03.100 --> 01:56:06.619
Typically write up a set list before I get up

01:56:06.619 --> 01:56:09.779
and perform. Sometimes that can be like something

01:56:09.779 --> 01:56:12.060
that's scribbled on a piece of paper as we're

01:56:12.060 --> 01:56:14.979
driving to the gig. Sometimes it's pulling out

01:56:14.979 --> 01:56:18.420
an old set list and just winging it based on

01:56:18.420 --> 01:56:20.659
this list that worked a couple of weeks ago at

01:56:20.659 --> 01:56:25.479
the previous gig. But yeah, I like to be somewhat

01:56:25.479 --> 01:56:27.840
prepared for what I'm doing. I want to ask you,

01:56:27.880 --> 01:56:31.380
you just had a release party. That was sold out.

01:56:31.420 --> 01:56:34.800
You did something that I, so I actually do house

01:56:34.800 --> 01:56:37.180
shows too. And I want to set one up with you

01:56:37.180 --> 01:56:39.159
at some point. But you did something that I hadn't

01:56:39.159 --> 01:56:41.340
thought of, which was like a combination ticket

01:56:41.340 --> 01:56:44.180
and merchandise package. Yes. Just talk about

01:56:44.180 --> 01:56:46.619
that show and talk about like how you thought

01:56:46.619 --> 01:56:48.800
about doing, because it's sold out. It was super

01:56:48.800 --> 01:56:51.579
successful. So I want to just, if you wouldn't

01:56:51.579 --> 01:56:53.880
mind sharing. Sharing the nuggets. How you came

01:56:53.880 --> 01:56:55.880
up with that idea and everything. Of course.

01:56:55.880 --> 01:56:58.260
Well, I definitely didn't come up. with it by

01:56:58.260 --> 01:57:01.920
myself. I partnered with Tyler Denzel. He's the

01:57:01.920 --> 01:57:03.819
owner of Little Garden Studio. I do a lot of

01:57:03.819 --> 01:57:06.140
my recording out there. And this is an idea that

01:57:06.140 --> 01:57:08.000
he and I have had. I have a lot of experience

01:57:08.000 --> 01:57:11.020
with intimate shows. It's honestly my preference

01:57:11.020 --> 01:57:13.920
is to perform in front of an audience of 100

01:57:13.920 --> 01:57:17.380
or less so that I can really look into people's

01:57:17.380 --> 01:57:20.220
eyes and stare into their soul when I'm pouring

01:57:20.220 --> 01:57:22.579
my heart out. No, but this was something that

01:57:22.579 --> 01:57:24.460
Tyler and I were talking about. I like achievable

01:57:24.460 --> 01:57:27.720
goals. Freaking people out in the first, second

01:57:27.720 --> 01:57:31.180
and third row. No, but the idea came about really

01:57:31.180 --> 01:57:36.739
when I was just wanting to express or share rather

01:57:36.739 --> 01:57:39.060
some of my newer music that I didn't really know

01:57:39.060 --> 01:57:42.000
where to put it. And of course, celebrate the

01:57:42.000 --> 01:57:44.600
three motions drop. This is my latest EP. It's

01:57:44.600 --> 01:57:46.840
a three track project that just talks about the

01:57:46.840 --> 01:57:50.420
stages of falling in love. And so the show came

01:57:50.420 --> 01:57:54.319
together pretty quickly. And then the merch was

01:57:54.319 --> 01:57:56.439
added when we decided this would be an awesome

01:57:56.439 --> 01:57:59.439
idea to just package everything together to give

01:57:59.439 --> 01:58:03.539
people a full experience in terms of we really

01:58:03.539 --> 01:58:06.619
want to bring them into my world of music. And

01:58:06.619 --> 01:58:09.100
to answer or to piggyback off of what Elizabeth

01:58:09.100 --> 01:58:12.140
was saying, that definitely took some planning

01:58:12.140 --> 01:58:15.659
and wanting to really tell a story with this

01:58:15.659 --> 01:58:18.720
set list. I've heard a lot of bands, it's pretty

01:58:18.720 --> 01:58:21.300
customary to have a CD release party and you

01:58:21.300 --> 01:58:24.880
get the CD. But you had the package. What all

01:58:24.880 --> 01:58:27.180
did people get when they came to your show? Sure.

01:58:27.220 --> 01:58:30.239
So also just to clarify, this wasn't technically

01:58:30.239 --> 01:58:33.800
a release party. It was more so just a celebration

01:58:33.800 --> 01:58:36.060
of everything that's been released in the last

01:58:36.060 --> 01:58:39.420
year. Three Motions was released back in February

01:58:39.420 --> 01:58:42.619
on all platforms. But when we were thinking about...

01:58:42.750 --> 01:58:45.710
merch packages I honestly just wanted to do stuff

01:58:45.710 --> 01:58:48.810
that I'd never done before and t -shirts was

01:58:48.810 --> 01:58:50.689
one of the first things and then Tyler was like

01:58:50.689 --> 01:58:52.229
let's do a tote bag dude and I was like that

01:58:52.229 --> 01:58:54.970
sounds freaking awesome and it was just thinking

01:58:54.970 --> 01:58:57.750
it thinking about the stock that I had in terms

01:58:57.750 --> 01:58:59.310
of the merch that was already created and like

01:58:59.310 --> 01:59:02.489
how can we expand it and so when people came

01:59:02.489 --> 01:59:06.260
they got a t -shirt a poster God, what else?

01:59:06.899 --> 01:59:09.460
Stickers that came late. So technically not.

01:59:09.500 --> 01:59:11.899
See, they got some older stickers. But we had

01:59:11.899 --> 01:59:15.600
stickers made, postcards. It came with that little

01:59:15.600 --> 01:59:18.359
journal that I had put in your pack as well.

01:59:18.399 --> 01:59:20.699
Just asking you to think about what it feels

01:59:20.699 --> 01:59:22.439
like to be still because that was the name of

01:59:22.439 --> 01:59:27.220
my first EP. So a lot of, I'd say my merch that

01:59:27.220 --> 01:59:30.460
I've put out separately has been more personable,

01:59:30.500 --> 01:59:33.050
like more so. encouraging people to write their

01:59:33.050 --> 01:59:35.470
loved ones or to reflect. And Tyler's, let's

01:59:35.470 --> 01:59:37.529
expand a bit and think about some of the merch

01:59:37.529 --> 01:59:39.090
that sells the best. And so it was really cool

01:59:39.090 --> 01:59:41.170
to create those things. And all credit to him.

01:59:41.189 --> 01:59:43.210
He did an incredible job putting that stuff together.

01:59:43.430 --> 01:59:46.289
And just for everybody with full name, what's

01:59:46.289 --> 01:59:49.789
Tyler's full name? Government name, Tyler Denzel.

01:59:49.810 --> 01:59:52.569
He is the owner of Little Garden Studio. It's

01:59:52.569 --> 01:59:54.850
off of Capitol Circle, right across from the

01:59:54.850 --> 01:59:58.000
gym. I'll probably cut the location out. Okay,

01:59:58.020 --> 01:59:59.600
perfect. So he doesn't have stalkers. No, get

01:59:59.600 --> 02:00:02.880
the stalkers. Drive the foot traffic. That's

02:00:02.880 --> 02:00:05.779
cool. I've never heard of him. It was an awesome

02:00:05.779 --> 02:00:08.060
opportunity. And honestly, if you're interested

02:00:08.060 --> 02:00:10.420
in having a show similar to that, I'd be happy

02:00:10.420 --> 02:00:11.899
to set something up because what we were trying

02:00:11.899 --> 02:00:15.060
to do is hamster my project and say, let's just

02:00:15.060 --> 02:00:17.239
give it a go. And so we can create a template

02:00:17.239 --> 02:00:19.439
and a system and process to bring other artists

02:00:19.439 --> 02:00:22.659
in for similar experiences. Cool. You got shows

02:00:22.659 --> 02:00:25.640
coming up where people can catch you? I do not

02:00:25.640 --> 02:00:28.340
have any local shows coming up, but I will be

02:00:28.340 --> 02:00:32.920
in D .C. at the end of July for a podcast workshop

02:00:32.920 --> 02:00:35.600
and show and then a few SoFar shows as well.

02:00:35.779 --> 02:00:37.840
Awesome. But I would love to schedule more shows

02:00:37.840 --> 02:00:39.680
on here. I have to pick your brain about getting

02:00:39.680 --> 02:00:41.399
gigs and stuff because that's something that's

02:00:41.399 --> 02:00:44.159
pretty new to me. Where's your, like, what's

02:00:44.159 --> 02:00:46.439
your social, name all your social platforms?

02:00:46.699 --> 02:00:49.180
You're active on Instagram a lot. I am, yeah.

02:00:49.239 --> 02:00:51.020
I would say that's probably the social media

02:00:51.020 --> 02:00:53.560
platform I'm most active on. I need to get on.

02:00:54.000 --> 02:00:55.579
I need to get back on TikTok. I had a TikTok.

02:00:56.439 --> 02:00:58.140
I don't have a TikTok anymore. That's a different

02:00:58.140 --> 02:01:00.739
conversation for a different time. But I'm on

02:01:00.739 --> 02:01:07.819
Instagram. My username is inaa .rte. But all

02:01:07.819 --> 02:01:12.380
my music can be found on my website at www .inaa

02:01:12.380 --> 02:01:15.340
.rte .com. It's where you'll find my full discography.

02:01:15.500 --> 02:01:19.720
It's also where the 25 for 2025 project is posted.

02:01:19.840 --> 02:01:22.460
It's via SoundCloud. All of my other stuff is

02:01:22.460 --> 02:01:25.119
streaming on all major platforms. And if you

02:01:25.119 --> 02:01:27.149
follow her on Instagram, She's been streaming,

02:01:27.250 --> 02:01:30.510
recording her sessions for 25. She's been pretty

02:01:30.510 --> 02:01:32.750
cool to watch. So definitely check that out.

02:01:33.340 --> 02:01:35.260
Elizabeth, do you have any other social media

02:01:35.260 --> 02:01:37.880
that you want to share with everybody? I know

02:01:37.880 --> 02:01:39.979
you're on Instagram too, right? Yeah, Instagram

02:01:39.979 --> 02:01:44.479
at Elizabeth Travels and Facebook. Yeah. June

02:01:44.479 --> 02:01:47.279
20th, I'll be at Apalachicola Yacht Club with

02:01:47.279 --> 02:01:51.960
Raising Cane. And then Saturday, June 21st at

02:01:51.960 --> 02:01:56.779
Southern Philosophy in Bainbridge, Georgia. And

02:01:56.779 --> 02:01:59.439
then coming up in July, I'll be at the Farmer's

02:01:59.439 --> 02:02:03.039
Market on July 5th. Which farmer's? The one in

02:02:03.039 --> 02:02:06.600
downtown Tallahassee on College Avenue. All right.

02:02:06.659 --> 02:02:08.739
Thank you all so much. We're going to get things

02:02:08.739 --> 02:02:11.140
set up for Ina to share a song with us to close

02:02:11.140 --> 02:02:13.140
out this episode. Thank you all for talking to

02:02:13.140 --> 02:02:31.760
us. That was a lot of fun. Thank you. So much

02:02:31.760 --> 02:02:40.939
to say Where do I start? Oh, it's been years

02:02:40.939 --> 02:02:51.479
That we've been apart So much to tell you There's

02:02:51.479 --> 02:02:58.779
so much to express As I write words on a letter

02:02:59.659 --> 02:03:06.279
with no address. There's no way to reach you.

02:03:06.880 --> 02:03:14.899
How do I get home? How do I retrace every step

02:03:14.899 --> 02:03:21.560
back to a place I've never known? How do I get

02:03:21.560 --> 02:03:40.960
back to... I have so many questions. Are you

02:03:40.960 --> 02:03:52.420
okay? Are you protected? Mom, are you safe? Dad,

02:03:52.500 --> 02:04:01.260
how is your health? How is your joy? Where is

02:04:01.260 --> 02:04:08.909
your spirit? How can I hear your voice when there's

02:04:08.909 --> 02:04:17.350
no way to reach you? How do I get home? How do

02:04:17.350 --> 02:04:23.430
I retrace every step back to a place I've never

02:04:23.430 --> 02:04:41.279
known? How do I get back to... This has been

02:04:41.279 --> 02:04:43.220
overeducated and underemployed.