Thank you. Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed.
Today we've got a really cool episode. I had
the chance to sit down with Jay Gonzalez from
the Drive -By Truckers. The weekend that the
Sloan Brothers, Jay Gonzalez split EP came out.
I went to the release party. Got to see Jay play.
Lee Baines played afterwards. It was an awesome
show. Jay has always been super kind, and he
was gracious enough to sit down with me for a
little over an hour. And we talk about his early
music influences, talk about different things
he did to make ends meet before being a full
-time musician. And I really enjoyed talking
to him. I think you're going to enjoy listening
to it. Here's my interview with Jay Gonzalez
of the Drive -By Truckers. I'm here with Jay
Gonzalez, and I'm just going to dive into it
and start with the question I ask everybody first.
Sure. What's the first song you remember loving?
Oh, God, that's tough. The first one I remember
being inquisitive about hearing and then trying
to find out who it was. And I don't remember
what year it was. I know it came out around 76,
but it was a Paul McCartney side of the wing
song called Let Him In. And I remember I have
a vivid memory of being in bed thinking about
the song and asking my mom, you know, singing
the chorus to the song and asking her if it was
a Beatles song. She didn't know. But then years
later, I heard it again and I realized who it
was. More or less. Yeah. From the beginning,
I guess it was I was going to be into that. I
always loved the Beatles and stuff, but we were
never a record collecting family or anything
like that. So it was always radio. And my dad
had a small record collection. And I think, ironically
enough, he had the Blue Beatles record collection.
The second. the Blue Album. The Anthology, yeah.
Yeah, and that was great. But he also had Paul
McCartney's Ram album. Oh, yeah. And I think
that was a big thing, was listening to that even
before I really dove into the Beatles stuff.
Yeah. I was doomed from the start. Yeah, Paul
and I have the same birthday. Oh, cool. He's
one of those, he's actually, for a long time,
he was like my least favorite Beatle. And honestly,
I was watching the Get Back documentary, and
I really started to just see how wrong I had
been about him, to be honest. I think people's
favorite Beatles, just like anything, they're
these archetypes, personality -wise, and you
either relate to them or not. And I also think
him being the... the most maybe not friendly
but at least offensive beetle is why in general
he's a lot of people it's their favorite but
then also if you have any edge to you're going
to lean lenin and then in recent times i've it
doesn't i agree with it but how many people i
know are george George is their favorite. And
it surprised me for a while. I feel like he had
some of the best solo stuff. He did, absolutely.
They were all great. No, he really did. I think,
especially right at the start with All Things
Must Pass, I think because he was constipated
because they wouldn't let him play any of his
songs. Yeah. Or record his songs. They cut versions
of All Things Must Pass, but they wouldn't put
it on an album, which is insane. But in a way...
made for a better album for him right yeah for
sure and you can see and get back his dynamic
by then he had given up on doing anything other
than just following directions yeah and i thought
that was like really telling it is and it's a
little but sad when you see like john barely
listening to his song or paul putting it it's
a i think it's a sibling thing and he was the
younger sibling and at that age you're still
even in your 20s you're still act like when you're
teenagers and you're two years older than the
other person. It might as well be 10 years. I've
heard Paul say that Ringo wasn't even the best
drummer in the Beatles. Right. He said it, but
he was joking. It's such a funny thing to say.
It's such a dig move. But it is. The style is
everything. Ringo's style is just... Paul's a
great drummer, but... you think of the parts
and everything i don't i'm defending ringona
which is ridiculous but it is a i love i don't
know i've got a special place in my heart for
all of them some way shape or form they yeah
it's a little perspective i do meet people and
i do believe there are people who don't like
them and i think i don't know if it's always
the music per se but i'm sure it's just being
having it shoved down your throat sure and Even
if you don't like them, you can't deny that you
were influenced. Even if you're like, I hate
the Beatles, you clearly influenced everything
in our culture. I would say there's only been
one person that didn't mention a Beatles song
or related as the answer to that question. Like
it's super common for that to be like the first
artist to latch on to. Sure. And I think it's
really telling too that you were able to recognize
who you had that recognition right away. You
were like, is this the Beatles? Yeah. I think
that's pretty telling too. It is because I think
I was, that song, it must have been, I was born
in 73. I must have been six or seven maybe at
that time. So yeah. They were all over the place
at that point. And I think it's weird now when
you see stuff online where kids don't know who
they are. And it's natural. We are at the end
of, not the end of rock and roll, but we are,
if you're looking at the history of music. I
mean, Lester Baines was saying that 50 years
ago. He was. You're right. But I feel like it's
just inevitable when you see. jazz or any style
and how any popular music has a shelf life certain
amount what i do think is what you're onto i'm
not sure genre really exists that much anymore
so in that sense they're like it's all dead i
think it's such a different world there's no
we're not all listening to the same stations
or the top 40 and we are there is a general But
it just seems so spread out due to the internet.
I think it's not just music, right? I can't think
of the last time other than Baby Yoda or something
where we all were into the same thing. Yeah.
It doesn't happen very often. TV shows occasionally
and usually not TV shows that are on network
TV. It's a severance or something. It's like
there are little things that pop up. but it's
interesting yeah i think it's really good in
a way that any kid can just go on youtube now
and listen to anything and be into something
from the other side of the world something super
obscure as opposed to back in the day when you'd
have to you can find it but you'd have you go
to the library or something but it's harder it's
not just going to pop up in your feed now now
it's just all of a sudden you can hear some music
from eastern europe or something that's just
just in the back of a video game or someone's
youtube video right but it is interesting i certainly
when it all started when the internet like late
90s early 2000s i was head over heels for it
musically because it was also free music was
coming if you were looking for obscure stuff
like I was at that time. Hot music, obscure 60s
stuff or whatever. You can find it so easily
and get it. Not good for people making money
for their music, but good for people who are
looking for music. The money thing is definitely
a problem, but it also has made it. easier for
bands and artists to find their audience too
like the reverse is also true so it is that's
but it's a blessing it's yeah both it's a double
-edged it is but i i'm all about it it's i get
caught in going down rabbit holes of the book
of certain styles of music and you can find anything
on youtube and i do love it But I think that
highlights like a, just a big difference between
like somebody who's really into music and like
a casual listener. It's like casual listeners
never talk about going down rabbit holes. But
they also come across stuff that they wouldn't.
And it's easy for them to find, Oh, I like this
and get it as opposed to that. I don't know.
It's an interesting thing. It's all right there,
but it also, I feel like. at least the problem
with me is I used to spend more time with something
if I went if I spent the money going to a record
store going somewhere and buying it and then
didn't like it right away but you don't have
any other option so you listen to it three or
four times and then all of a sudden you realize
you fall for it whereas it's a lot harder for
me anyway and I think I'm a pretty It's a pretty
common example of someone who's a short attention
span. And that's been shortened even more. And
if I hear someone's new album, if I listen to
it once, if I listen to it twice, it's amazing.
You know what I mean? Even if it's someone I
really love, it's hard. But I also have some,
I think it being my profession or whatever, what
I do, it's... I'm also doing it all the time
so that there's less time for me to listen maybe
as I used to have. And it's like a fan. Yeah.
I think most musicians are fans, and it varies.
I know a lot of folks that don't listen to a
lot of music at all who are musicians because
they're just doing their own thing, and I think
there's no right or wrong way, but I have found
I'm listening to music constantly, but I feel
like it's a lot less than I used to. do you ever
like knowing that now that you're conscious of
that do you sometimes i'm gonna force myself
to listen to this two or three times before i
even pass yeah i try i try i wish i was a little
more i wish i had a little more structure and
a little more what is the word i wish i had a
better vocabulary i wish i would give things
a go more but i do tend to try to if someone
suggests something even if i don't love it at
first like you find you try to look at it through
their eyes and especially someone you respect
right something musically and then it does a
lot of times it does it shows itself that you
realize just there's so many so much of it is
just what your taste is i've jokingly said there's
no good or bad music it's just what you like
and what different people like and i think that's
pushing it a little bit but it's yeah i almost
say the opposite yeah there's no such thing as
like genre there's just good and bad yeah but
it's interesting if you think of where if someone
comes up in a certain part of the world or something
and what they grow up here and all the time is
going to influence their oh sure you know what
i mean so oh it's completely subjective objective
and also you think of it in the time you grew
up all as well and there's the baggage of what
kind of social things that the song has but it's
i think it would be even if everybody just heard
a song didn't know who did it and just i don't
know it's i think you bring a lot to what you're
listening to yeah no 100 yeah i think the analogy
i like to think about with it is if you think
about and i don't know if you're really into
sports at all but if you think about somebody
who's like a fan of a team right and what the
reasons are for them being a fan of that team
they're pretty arbitrary most of the time or
or at least very tied to the person and their
individual experience where they grew up absolutely
what player they latched on to and i think it's
very similar with the kind of music that you
like and especially if you're only exposed to
like a certain kind of music it's true i mean
it's harder to break out of it it is i think
now The other issue is if you think of someone
growing up in a village in the mountains and
somewhere where all they hear is the folk music
of the surrounding areas. Obviously I'm talking
way back, but even in the last century, you have
radio and stuff comes in, but you're... you're
isolated bringing your ears or you yeah you're
isolated but you're also you hear things everybody
hears things differently and likes different
elements and also you realize that now with style
and production styles in popular music how there
was a time where I I came up in the 80s really
for all kinds of purposes the music i tend to
lean towards the 60s 70s and generally speaking
but right realistically i was 10 years old in
83 and i was like that was from sort of 79 to
89 was like pretty influential musically and
and and then in the 90s i would never listen
to anything that was 80s the 80s pop huge drum
sound kind of stuff and stayed away from it and
but i loved it when it came out at that time
and now all of a sudden it's this many years
later so much indie music is and is influenced
by the 80s stuff and a lot of those sounds are
popular again and i'm like all of a sudden i
am liking these sounds again and so it's it's
a lot of it is fashion and time and something
you said earlier like it's not being shoved down
your throat now It's true, it's true. And the
thing I realized, and here's where you get the
people who say, oh, that's not how they did it
back then. I hear records where it is influenced
by 80s production and synthesizers and stuff.
It's like, it's all mixed in with everything
that's happened since. But I think my initial
reaction was like, that's not how they're trying
to do this. And that's not how you do this. I
think that's coming from a point where I was
always trying to copy stuff from the 60s and
70s. You realize that you just make it and whatever
happens and you don't want it to sound exactly
like there's so much that's happened musically
and otherwise since then, that's going to influence
you. So it's, I think it's the key as I, in the
last few years, I've been just trying to not
try to. oh this is this type of song this is
this type of song when i'm recording something
or going for a genre at this point it's like
it just trying to actually you try to do something
original i think the key is just like doing it
and not just letting all your influences come
in and mix up yeah i think really the really
good artists are always doing have known to do
that since they were young i think most people
and myself included it takes time to realize
that your product of your influence is good and
bad and you gotta just accept it basically in
the end it's what is Whatever you're trying to
make, how does that sound or look or depending
on whatever your medium is, if it works, then
it works. Yeah, yeah. The process is getting
there is, I feel like you have to be real open
about it and just let it all in and then edit
it later. Yeah, yeah. That kind of reminds me
of this Ben Folds song. You got to learn to live
with what you are. And you just have to like
just accept it all and do something with it.
It's true. What album is that? I think the album
ended up being songs for... Oh, Silver. But it
was on those EPs that came out in the early 2000s,
yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Beat Graphic, I think,
was the one we had. So let's talk about when
you were young and your music, like, you started
playing music really young. Was that your initiative
or was that, like, something you thought, like,
your parents thought would be good for you because
they saw? Yeah, a little bit of both, probably.
How much, it sounds like you knew you loved music
really young. Pretty, I think, my memory is so
sharp, but from what I remember, I was, yeah,
I always liked music, but I had a neighbor who
was an older gentleman who played violin, and
I think he mentioned to my parents that maybe
I should, I would always be whistling and singing
songs, and so he said, maybe you should take
piano lessons or something and i think that's
that was a real common thing back in the day
i assume it still happens but i feel yeah i feel
there we were at the tail end of that era where
pianos were still normal in people's houses yeah
and there was sheet piano sheet music in the
back of the record store but it was a different
thing and yeah my mom worked in one of those
stores in the late 70s yeah yeah it's great i
i i don't regret it at all i think my mom would
always push me to find whatever i was gonna do
and i think there was a lady down the street
and she took it when i was seven and at that
point i had also it was the time of billy joel
and i was in new york so there was like he was
at that point he had done this glass houses album
which was his kind of rock and roll new wave
album in air quotes but like he he i happened
to cross that album my mother in a store and
i bought it and that was now i definitely want
to play piano and i started listening to stuff
and elton john i remember loving the song daniel
and and i'm sure a lot of stuff but i was getting
into the sort of like super pop popular versions
of that were influenced by new wave stuff like
hauling notes and stuff so basically all these
singer songwriters that were trying to change
with the times and doing these sort of albums
after hearing blondie and the pretenders and
stuff and trying to do this stuff anyway piano
lessons were fine but it was i would walk down
the street every once a week and do it and i
did that until i started getting into other karate
and ninja stuff wrestling other kids stuff and
then i quit that and then a few years later the
rock and roll thing started with guitar and i
started getting into bands rock bands more than
top 40 radio like a lot of people do but so yeah
so i had the piano thing at first and were you
playing classical piano mostly or were you playing
like some of the billy joel and elton john it
was i think pretty common thing with at that
point too was like very classically based and
all that but all the simple Beethoven typical
stuff and then a little like a little simple
ragtime stuff but then I could bring the Billy
Joel step one or whatever volume one these real
simple piano pieces and I would do that and so
yeah I was listening to Top 40 playing that kind
of stuff always wanting to be a singer -songwriter
but then As I got older, in my teens, I mostly
wanted to play guitar in a band. And I always
wrote songs and stuff and had bands and did original
stuff. But it just varied a little bit stylistically.
I'm not saying shit, really. Looking back, in
my head, I was trying different things. But I
had to... I'm first generation. born born here
my dad is from puerto rico technically but he
came in the 50s puerto rican influx into new
york and stuff and my mom came from italy via
montreal but and they wanted me to go to college
and so i had to that's how i got into classical
music guitar i learned i was playing Ozzy Osbourne
and Randy Rhoads stuff. And he had the classical
thing. He had classical music. And I played that
at my high school, like on the school's Stratocaster.
And then this classical guitarist came in and
the teacher introduced me and they got me lessons.
So then I studied that and then I went to college
for classical guitar, but ironically met the
band that I moved down to Athens with there.
And I've always played in bands up there. Basically,
that's what led me to Athens right after graduation.
Do you remember what the first rock band was
that you really latched on to? Or any shows as
a teenager that you really remember being important
to you? Yeah, sure. I was definitely a suburban
rock kid. Guns N' Roses was one of the first
concerts I saw. It opened for Aerosmith in 1987.
and that was mind -blowing to me at the time
because it was still like early on when they
were just all wearing leather all original members
no extra backup singers and no knocking on heaven's
door reggae breakdown but it was and that was
under the hair metal stuff before that too i
certainly got into my 1415 and stuff like that
i feel like there was something really just fun
about oh yeah it was just like yeah it was rock
to me that i like it because it was just mindless
rock fun music i was like oh i've always looked
like halloween so like the idea of drifting up
and being a little cheesy and like being it's
not like they weren't aware of it either it was
yeah it was an interesting time and i think a
lot of it had to do with the guitar player being
the focal point a lot of times or word and the
van halen thing and but i fortunately was young
enough i was too young to really be in any band
where we started dressing up and doing the whole
thing by the time i was in high school it was
like the guns and roses thing had happened so
it was and then into growing so it was like I
unfortunately missed the spandex. I didn't show
up. There's no video of me like playing with
spandex and big hair. That's too bad. No, it's
equally bad shit video of me, but it's at least
not wearing a spandex. But yeah, and then going
from there, just yeah, I went to school in upstate
New York and studied guitar and composition,
but really. mostly played in bands with friends
that yeah around and recorded at the there was
a recording studio a recording program and yeah
and my buddy Chris Grand who I still work with
to this day and moved to Athens with and has
been in a bunch of bands and since we were 18
or whatever he was in the recording program and
so we would you go to class during the day and
then the their tests or their were basically
recording bands and you do it overnight and you
do it for free so i always was able to like learn
how to record in a studio not technically but
to play and record while they learned how to
heat and he learned how to engineer and all our
friends all my friends were the engineers and
there and stuff and then yeah and then we met
our singer kitty and our drummer who and both
of who live still live down in georgia here and
we had a band called love apple that played two
years out there and then we all moved down to
athens one by one and and then i've been here
ever since 95. cool we all have those people
growing up that are the guy turn us sometimes
it's an older sibling sometimes it's just like
a neighborhood friend but do you remember who
that was for you and what age like young more
like teenagers when you were getting into rock
yeah yeah i had my my aunts and an uncle were
mostly my two aunts on my mom's side were young
my mom was the oldest so they were only like
10 years older than me and so they were pretty
they were had some really cool they were into
the rock stuff yeah they were into like kids
and stuff and would go see them and i remember
them like wearing the makeup and going and stuff
but they also had really cool record collections
and that and pilfered their zeppelin albums and
like joe first two joe jackson albums and all
this sort of that but all over the map musically
but they were definitely rockers and they lived
in yonkers new york and i would take take their
records when they moved out of the house my grandmother's
house and left the records and then i would listen
to that first black sabbath album and stuff like
that so with all the singer songwriter stuff
that was happening and then cat stevens and all
these like 70s singer songwriters soft rock stuff
was like i loved as well and and always struggled
that big finding in between and then really in
the end that's just kind of It's still what I
basically listen to and do musically. It sounds
like, and I might be wrong here, but it sounds
like you decided pretty young to just, I'm going
to be a professional musician and there wasn't
really much Schultz you were thinking about?
Yeah, for sure. There was just nothing else I
was interested really in after 13 or 14. And
so, yeah, I always just wanted to do it, but
I was never one to plan ahead. very far. It always
just went wherever it seemed like. What were
some of the shit jobs or normal jobs or whatever
you want to call them that you had to... I'm
sure you, at least in college... Yeah, no. I've
never really, even down in Athens, I've never
had a real job, per se. It's always been delivered.
I delivered flowers in Athens for... you know,
10 years at the Athens Florist. And I loved it
because we could, I didn't make much money, but
I could tour and play and not drive around and
listen to music. Well, and people are usually
pretty happy when you show up with flowers, even
if they're not from you. You'd be surprised over
on Millage Avenue, you bring something to the
sorority house, and if it was like the wrong
delivery, you'd get screamed at. Or if it's late.
and the boyfriend said something and then i've
gotten yelled at a lot but mostly they're happy
and it is nice and yeah deliver pizza before
that and it's always been just like i worked
in a bakery in high school and yeah just that
kind of stuff and then yeah just always stuff
that was not didn't take up too much headspace
so i could just daydream and i do think a lot
of artists like to have those jobs that are not
super super labor intensive so you can always
just think about what you're doing or write songs
in your head or or come up with stuff or i think
comedians are the same way oh absolutely it makes
sense i think it's cut from the same cloth yeah
i know certainly i know so many comedian and
actor folks that I've met or want to be musicians
and vice versa. And a lot of them do both, but
there's a lot of crime. But I, yeah, I agree.
I think it's a, it's just, you're constantly
thinking of new bits and new songs and new pieces
and stuff like that. And I don't think there's
really much choice about it. It just happens.
So you got to be in a situation where you can
let that happen, which on the outside looks a
lot like, and a lot of times is just lazy and
sitting around and doing nothing. But a lot of
times you're working on stuff in your head. And
I'd see it. Yeah. With a lot of my friends, musician
friends and stuff and this far away look and
you're coming up with something. Yeah. Or whatever.
But yeah. And a lot, so a lot of artists are,
doing their craft to process trauma or the things
that they might be lacking in their personal
lives sometimes or just it's a way to work through
emotions and but it's also pretty common for
an artist to have a lot of turmoil in their childhood
it doesn't sound like that was the case for you
though and unless I'm missing something you know
I mean not I would just mostly an anxious kid
and i think and i don't know if it's caused by
any real turmoil i think it was just just my
personality and so i think i was overly sensitive
and and i think that was a big part of how i
always would non -confrontational uh so i would
escape i would I was definitely like, I was more
apt to run or take a nap or just pretend that
it's not happening than confront or deal with
a situation. Probably hasn't changed much over
the years. But I think in a way, going into your
head is probably a common way a lot of people
who do creative stuff deal with that. Yeah. Definitely,
yeah. But I generally had a happy childhood.
But the turmoil was more internal, not external.
I think so, yeah. I was definitely lucky. We
lived in the suburbs in this really cool little
hamlet in upstate New York. Not upstate, but
north of the city. I really liked where I lived
and my friends and everything, but I think I
always tended to be a bit of a loner. Even though
I hung out with people, but it was always in
my head. And I think that, again, that hasn't
changed a lot. But I do think, yeah, I think
anytime everybody has certain levels of trauma
and things happen to them. And I think that's
whether or not I'm writing about it on purpose.
Certainly as I got older, I dealt with things
like the death of family members and stuff by
writing about it. And a lot of times probably.
a little too, when I was writing lyrics, a little
too much in TMI. I definitely think I've had
people say it made them feel uncomfortable because
of stuff I'm writing about, and I think that's...
That sounds like a dumb problem. And obviously,
being in the truckers, I don't think that's why
they brought me in, but I think we're cut from
a similar cloth in the sense that a lot of certainly
Patterson's lyrics are about stuff. personal
stuff or just stuff you write about heavier stuff
i think rock and roll is upbeat music with downbeat
lyrics in a very general sense but it's i don't
know it always leans dark lyrically do you feel
like when you're playing in a band that you have
to be able to relate to what they're singing
about in order or is that kind of you can play
your part and if i relate to it great yeah i
think i should do that more i don't think i don't
i strive to do that i do that more now where
i'll listen to the lyrics or read the lyric sheet
and try to fit the mood of it i think the key
even if you don't know exactly what it's about
or you're not listening exactly to the lyrics
is it's at least my job is to capture the to
play the right part and to capture the vibe of
it and i think that's it's the biggest i think
that's the most important part of certainly a
side musician to someone else's song is to understand
what they're doing if not exactly lyrically musically
emotionally and that's the toughest thing i think
is figuring out what the right part is You throw
all this stuff at it and you just try to hone
it down to what's hopefully the right thing.
Yeah. Without overthinking it. I think I was
always an over -talker about music and stuff
and working stuff out. Do you like this? How
about this? How about this? Which is a neurotic
New Yorker thing, too. But I learned quickly
with them that it's more of you go in there and
start playing it. and come up and you know the
less said the better you just you don't explain
what you're doing or ask you just do what you
think is right and then nine times out of ten
it works out eventually with maybe some guidance
but i think that you're hired because you they
don't need to think about micromanaging your
parts At least with the Chalkers, which is great.
I know there are other bands where it is. You
go and they want you to play this part. Zappa
would have just cloned himself. When he got the
Sinclair computer synthesizer, he was, I think,
in heaven because he didn't need anybody else.
I think with MIDI and the time gone down, how
he lived now, he would probably be doing everything
in a laptop. Oh, absolutely. He predicted iTunes.
Yeah. He probably, I think, would still be doing
stuff at large with other people. I think he
knows that you have to have other input, but
I think he'd rather just... And in ways, I like
to do that with my own stuff. I do writing music
by myself and just doing stuff, but then every
time I get together with other people in a band
playing my stuff, I realize it's... so much better
to have other people's input and easier and fun
and so much of the at least my life some most
of my friends are musicians and that's how i
communicate that's the thing you're talking about
the turmoil thing and when you're writing and
processing pain and i think it's true but i think
with me it's the i struggle communicating on
so many levels with people That, I think, it's
just an easier way to communicate. It's like
your love language almost. It is. And it's, you
try to, I don't know, I feel like it's sometimes
I'm more comfortable. The easiest part of, say,
touring or something is like being on stage and
playing for me because it's just doing what I'm
supposed to do. And I'm most comfortable. The
hard part is getting from A to B and talking
to people and getting there and figuring out
logistics and stuff. But it's all well worth
it. How do you approach your solo albums differently
than when you're working with the Truckers or
even just any other collaborative project? It's
always been the same. I just start writing songs
and depending on... Back when I was in bands
that were doing my songs, we'd present them at
rehearsals and do it. But then once I joined
the Truckers and was doing that, it was harder
to have to be in other bands at the same time.
And so that's when the band I was in was falling
apart. And so I had these songs. And basically...
a lot of it was started off with like home demos
and then my friend chris who i mentioned before
has always recorded and mixed and produced albums
with me and my solo stuff so a lot of times i'd
show him and then we'd either he'd take what
i did recording wise at home and make it sound
a million times better or we would book time
in the studio and go in and get our friends and
play and record that way and then usually a lot
of my solo albums are mixes of like home demo
stuff or recorded in the studio i have an ep
that i did that's like a suite of songs and that
was all done in a studio but it all like runs
together yeah yeah and that was but a lot of
times it's a mix of tracks from them out different
things trying to make it all sound good together
so yeah but and i really want to get back and
get all my buddies into a real live studio thing
and cut something as live as possible especially
after the pandemic where it was so much layering
and sending track yeah i'm fine doing that and
that's what i do a lot of the time working on
a lot of times people will send me stuff that
they need keyboards or guitar on and i'll send
it to them And I love doing that, but I do, in
the end, like having a... If we can get just
a live performance of a song. There's something
about the chemistry of being in the room. It
is. There's a reason I wanted to do this in person,
too, versus on Zoom. No, you're right, it is.
It's a different thing, and you can really get
stuff done so much quicker. I know that's something
that drives us crazy when we're sending stuff
back and forth and working on stuff. it's we
get a thousand times more done when we're in
a room even for an hour than send it what do
you think of this and changes unfortunately it's
he lives in new york and i'm down here it's tough
but i've gotten more into the i'm trying to do
where i'm collecting songs and then plan a good
save up money get together and do an album just
as much as live as possible as opposed to cobbling
this together and then trying to make it sound
like a live performance and then if i don't and
now and otherwise i do solo stuff and i do i
like how jason isbell's new album's just him
and a guitar i do that too i like being able
to strip stuff down and i did and i was like
oh man that's people do that but it's generally
more in a not on a pop americano thing or whatever
usually it's a spokesperson or something where
it's just an early an instrument one instrument
but it's uh i thought it was really cool to do
that it's really it's really like telling when
the songs can stand on their own that's the thing
but i think it really does you're not hiding
behind anything and i definitely know i personally
hide behind arrangement and adding interesting
or some trying to be interesting parts almost
to distract from the song and i've learned in
recent times working with a lyricist my lyricist
friend pete smith we put out an album a couple
of years ago I grabbed it the other night. Oh,
cool. Thanks. I know the lyrics are great, and
I'm like, oh my gosh, and I can just focus on
the music and setting it to a melody that sounds
natural. And that's really what I learned is
my strength and what I really enjoy doing. So
that makes things easier, I think. if you have
a good song it can yeah you can play it in any
form and it'll stand up you know that's the goal
right you try to write like something like that
or what they would have called an evergreen standard
back in the day a modern standard but that's
not easy but it's fun to try so you moved to
Evans in 95 how long until you were able to like
fully make a living being a musician At what
point did that happen? 2008. When you joined
the truckers? Yeah. So one thing that we've been
talking about with other, like a lot of the people
I've talked to are fans or part of the community
of the fan base of the truckers, right? And the
drive -by truckers have one of the strongest,
I think, communities in terms of the fan bases.
It's something I've heard all of you say repeatedly.
And we do a lot to help raise money for Nucci
Space and things like that. But that community
already existed when you joined, right? So what
was it like to join the band that already had
this established community? I think you really
became very accessible very quickly and were
always super wonderful to everybody from the
get -go. But I'm just wondering what that experience
was like for you. It was really cool. It was
a learning curve just because I had never...
I didn't tour a lot before I joined the Truckers,
and no one really knew the music I made outside
of Athens friends and bands I was in and stuff.
So I was getting used to... We jumped on that
tour, and it was a month -long tour, and it was
jumping right in. But it was great meeting people.
I think the first gig where we had... someone
made cookies on the bus and it was sarah henderson
and what it was like and i met luke and sarah
there and then you'd start meeting different
folks and realize and seeing them at different
shows and becoming friends with them over the
years it's a lovely thing and it is i've never
been in a band where there was a community like
that and i don't think even other bands at the
same level or whatever as the truckers you don't
really see that i don't know it's very unique
no i don't think i maybe i didn't know it was
unique excuse me at the time i think i and i've
been a fan for 20 years now and so i feel like
i'm just in the last few years realizing how
special and unique it is yeah absolutely we're
in it it's hard to see the forest for the trees
when you don't i think it's also a band that's
not so big that you can't it's we're accessible
in the sense that it's like we're we're we play
clubs and you could we have the events like the
homecoming events and it's like i think patterson
certainly opened the door for from the beginning
and i didn't really know anybody else that did
that kind of thing that would do immediately
start raising money for Nucci Space. I think
he learned that from the REM thing. I'm sure
that was a huge influence. You can do good with
what you're doing musically and hopefully change
things for the better. Sadly, I've always been
selfish previously with bands and just only thinking
about making the music and playing the show.
the end of it granted also it was also all the
same group of friends that before that you know
yeah yeah it's i was overwhelmed frankly at first
but i think in a good way overall it was i was
finding my way within the band and the organization
and then and then meeting people and stuff like
that and it was a big learning curve those first
few years and i don't think i really totally
felt like I was comfortable in the situation
until really after the pandemic I think once
that happened it was a because I was always I
feel like from 2008 to 2000 to 2020 it was like
non -stop trying to feel to feel like a fully
fledged member of the band or something you're
also following up after musically after John
Neff and Jason Isbell and it's oh my god you
I always felt a little bit of you have to try
to how do you do that how do you maintain that
with their stuff and that level of musicianship
and also fitting in with the music I did always
feel like I maybe didn't fit in musically as
much as they did but I think that's what i think
once i realized that patterson brought me in
you if you didn't want someone that sounded the
same as the last part you wanted something different
yeah i think that was the key and now this has
been the longest there's ever been one line yeah
so crazy and but yeah during the pandemic i think
it stopped time to stop and think and really
appreciate the situation i always have but i
think i was always so caught up and anxious about
it working and doing doing stuff right and and
then now it's i think i i would suspect a lot
of people feel like if you made it through the
pandemic it's and it's not totally fucked over
financially and everything if your business still
exists or your band still exists then it's all
gravy and i do think we i feel like we we all
are enjoying it and having fun playing all the
shows are just there's no drama and it's just
all having fun in a weird way. I do think that's
a turning point. Feeling like you did at the
beginning of playing in bands. We just go out
there and have fun doing it. And certainly this
last tour with doing the Southern Rock Opera
album has been fun and I think it pulled us out
of the now a little bit by learning this older
thing. And I know I don't think really anyone
was super excited about doing that kind of thing
initially because it is moving backward. And
it's something y 'all have never done. You've
never played the same show repeatedly. Yeah,
we don't use set lists and stuff. So there was
a lot of weird shit about it. But in the end,
it really, I think, it's safe to say everyone
really loved the experience. I think so too.
I mean, and I don't mean that in the band. Yeah,
yeah. I don't know. It looked like everybody
was having a blast. something yeah it was a lot
of money and i think and i think patterson's
his credit made it work in a weird way we're
coming up on an election year and i think he
really wanted to push the political thing understandably
and try to get us to not be where we are now
but we but instead of having recent songs that
were political that album is he would i thought
i really liked how he worked in what's happening
today with what was happening in the 60s and
during the civil rights movement and stuff and
so it really it was a lot of fun having said
that i am excited to go back to just playing
hopefully the new songs and looser sets but i
think that's part of what made it great too was
like it wasn't forever right it was just and
to me it felt like it because i thought the last
night and then the first night that you weren't
doing it yeah it was like i don't think you played
a single song that first night off of it at all
but then at the end i think we did we would take
like the last few songs and i think that's something
that we can do which is you take like a it's
modular the way the album the show of the summer
album is like in sections and if you take those
last three or four songs and decide we need to
end a set with it when i say we patterson or
cooley calls a song from that for the last three
or four songs and that album we go and we can
end a set like that after playing a bunch of
different songs sure and take we have these songs
i think that was what i loved about it was the
arc of the album a lot of times they don't albums
don't translate into live shows and when you
see people do their do an album they end up they
do the album then they do a bunch of songs after
to try to ramp up the ending because not all
albums and like a rock show but i feel like that
album does and so there was a definite you could
feel the excitement at the as the night went
on and stuff it builds up and so that's and i
think like anything you take from the whatever
project you do before and i think i'm sure it'll
influence our next whatever the next album is
or whatever musically i think i feel like it'll
be a probably i certainly want to play more guitar
and i think i really felt more comfortable doing
that because it was a guitar based album and
so now i feel like i've learned a lot more in
the last couple years doing that of how to fit
parts in and do the three guitar thing not that
we haven't done that but i think i've always
tended to defer to keyboards because there's
already two guitars and maybe certain songs that
i thought needed keyboards maybe don't maybe
i think i'm just maybe enjoying the last hurrah
of rocking being able to rock out at 51 or whatever
yeah i know the stones are doing it at eight
i know it's no you can still do it but i feel
I'm really enjoying it, I guess, maybe midlife.
How much of your performance each night is improvised
versus what you always play? It depends. Usually
the song parts are set, and then a lot of times
the solos are improvised. Got it, yeah. Again,
with the Southern Rock Opera, it was a less,
maybe improvised stuff. What happens is a lot
of times from the beginning of a tour to the
end or a project, like so the beginning of the
Southern Rock Opera, I was coming up trying to
play the guitar parts on the record or something
that fit. And then toward the end, I'd be changing
it every night and then it wouldn't settle. I
think that's how we work. We don't really play
the album, whatever we record. It's like that.
I don't think our albums are necessarily like
worked on. to the point where they're just like
settled. And then that's the only way we would
play the arrangement. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
would do that kind of thing more where they would
spend that time working a song and working until
it gets settled and then play it live like that.
Whereas we, I feel like the Chuck Resolves are
just more of a snapshot of the time and then
it just changes. Certainly my parts have changed
over the years from say 2016 or whatever. It's,
oh shit. this there's no nothing's happening
during this part of the song on the record which
is on me or whatever but then i can add it online
hopefully someone will record it and it'll be
the arrangements do they morph yeah absolutely
and i think you can do everything for everybody
yeah you know i think it's that depends on the
kind of band certain bands the arrangements should
be tight and but i think it's this is a different
kind of band yeah yeah so the last thing i really
want to talk about is i talked to sloan and i
want to talk about the cp that y 'all did together
it sounds and one thing that he said that i thought
was interesting but i wanted to bring it up now
instead of earlier was the way his recording
process is almost all like sending tracks right
yeah originally early on when he first started
doing these and he said that made him a little
less meticulous about re -recording parts or
things like that because it's not just, oh, let's
lay down another track. It's, okay, go back,
set up your stuff, record it again, and play
this whole thing. So that was just something
that I thought was interesting about the dynamic
between the way both of y 'all prefer recording
in some ways, too. But what was that like? What
was it like working with them? Oh, it was great.
So I didn't... I knew Sloan around town, but
I didn't know that he had... I knew he had played
in the past, but he hadn't played with bands
around town. And so when he sent me, he said
he's working on this album and he sent me some
tracks to play on. And I was like blown away
because I also wasn't sure. He's got such a Catholic
taste musically, judging from all the bands he
recorded, that I didn't know. what it would be
musically and I didn't expect it to be so pop
oriented in a sort of a classic rock pop sense
and and so I was really thrilled and really had
a fun time when people send you stuff it can
range from something that's up your alley to
something that's totally what do I do to this
I don't know how to do it because a lot of times
I'll if someone sends me a message and asks if
I can record if I'm free and home and can do
it, I'll do it. I'll cut that part out. No, I
love it all. I love doing it all the time, but
sometimes it's, sometimes it's just not, you
realize it's harder for me to, but with him it's,
that's the thing, it's not, again, it's not a
quality thing, it's a, it's a, it doesn't fit
stylistically of what you do and do you know
how to make a part for it. And sometimes it's
harder, but with him it was just like very much
the same. in the same wheelhouse in my wheelhouse
the same style so i could send him a guitar i
could pull up a song and i would do a guitar
so then it would be easy because it would be
like a few takes and also he was very like loose
about what he wanted and trusted you to do whatever
and it was great then so when this so i played
on a few songs on his first album and now i know
the next album is with my former band now yeah
and that's it's guys i've played with for years
the lane brothers i was in the possibilities
with and they played in the guilty pleasures
with me too and they have their band the lanes
and and then brandon played bass in the arcs
and it's just the incestuous family of musicians
and so Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be there
and cut live with them, but we're all in the
records and stuff. And so the basis of it is
you want to at least have the rhythm section
be as live as possible. Inevitably, everything
you ever hear is overdubbed, no matter how live
a band cuts. Although I did a few with my other
project, Jay and the Boulevardians, we cut up.
our thing was like no overdubs so there was a
lot of fun time dude dude you gotta do 15 20
takes but then you get it live and it's amazing
so i that's the goal but but i'm excited the
stuff this new album is killer and it's looks
like the same vibe of songs but but just full
rock band going i think slung i don't know i
can't speak for him but i'm sure i talking to
him i think we both love being able to work on
stuff by ourselves and do that and it is great
but there is you know i do think the goal generally
is to get some a real drummer especially with
rock music right that's the thing it's if you're
doing dance music or whatever or folk or whatever
it's you don't need uh but the most important
person in a rock band is a drummer is the drummer
and it took me years to learn that but it's true
if you have a bad drummer you have a bad band
but but this project the split ep was basically
we each took two songs that we had and i picked
two songs that had recorded in the past and never
released and and my buddy chris talked about
earlier mixed it for me and then we had someone
master it and so it's but they fit really well
it's just like theme the sort of bubblegum music
theme really crosses over it's i love his two
songs on there like the ramones meet the cars
and none of neither of us got shot so that's
i think we're okay i don't think i locked the
door but we're all right yeah yeah he said he
takes much more of a steve albini approach than
like a rick rubin approach oh yeah yeah he's
much more i'm just trying to like document what
they want to do to the song and things like that
yeah it's a trip man i love working with him
i've known him for so long it's really cool working
on this project is awesome he's so driven he's
just like making music all the time it's like
inspiring yeah yeah and i think i i have been
doing it with the truckers for a while and doing
other people's music mostly but it definitely
pushed me into one and really want to try and
get my stuff done more and try to not get any
younger so none of us are no before i let you
go can you've alluded to a few of these past
projects and current pro can you just like list
if people want to listen to more of your music
like solo music can you list some of those older
bands that are especially ones that are available
to find on screen sure yeah look the first band
i played in When we moved here, it was a band
called Love Apple. And we had an album called
Tom Ryan, but it's not on streaming. And it's
only released on CD in the late 90s. So that
would be something in a pawn shop or thrift stores
in Athens probably is where you'd probably find
those. But as far as stuff that's streaming,
The Possibilities, Chris and I joined The Possibilities
in like late 99. We did an album with them called
Way Out. I love that record. I love it too. I
wish someone would put it out. If anyone hears
this and wants to put it out, it's great. And
they did an album before that was self -titled
The Possibilities. And then that's available
as well. And before we joined. And then it's
great. And then I was in a band called Nutria
after that. And there's two records, I believe,
that are available streaming. And then there's
a bunch of solo albums I did. First one was Mess
of Happiness. That's 2011. And then I did an
EP called The Bittersweet from 2015, I think.
And then Back to the Hive. God, I don't know
if it was 1920. It was during the pandemic, I
guess we finished it. And then the last thing
I did was a Gonzalo Smith with my friend Pete
Smith, the lyricist. And that came out a couple
of years ago. And then I just, with the Jay and
the Boulevardians project, there's a fella in
town, Grady Thrasher, who's a great dude. He
basically wrote lyrics and had me write music
and then brought all his friends in and we'd
record all these songs live and started off with
like 20s, 30s sounding jazz stuff. And then now
it's just all kinds of spans, all kinds of different
styles. And John Neff's playing with us now too.
So now we have Killer Pedal Steel. saxophones
and it's i saw him saturday night yeah yeah yeah
he's awesome and i love being able to play with
him again in that project and then i played briefly
with the bad ends and he's in that too and and
that was a lot of fun and i'm sure there's more
but that those are the main things that i've
been doing i can add anything you didn't mention
to the description last year we released on a
local cassette label, Attaboy Tapes. This project
I did probably 2006, 2007. Oh, cool. We called
it the Inflatable Orchestra, which was all instrumental.
And so that's streaming now, too. Oh, it's not
only on cassette. Yeah, yeah. I think it's streaming.
I don't know. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty
sure it is. But I have cassettes if anyone wants
them. That's the other thing is I need to put
stuff up on Bandcamp because I have stacks of
vinyl and stuff in my house. Yeah, I did a 45
also with the band Eyelids from Portland, a friend
of mine. And that was really fun where I wrote
a song and they played it, recorded it, and they
wrote a song and I recorded it. And it's really
cool. That's awesome. I love that concept. Yeah,
it's great. You can find it on there. Man, you're
busy. Yeah, I am and I'm not. This is all over
a long period of time. And there's also a lot
of unreleased stuff. And now I'm working on a
movie with a friend. So I'm trying to get into
playing guitar. He's scoring this movie and I'm
playing guitar because he's a keyboard player
and he needs guitar. So I've been learning how
to do that. So I definitely want to get into
that more. So that's been honestly keeping me
busier. real work like the band stuff is i'm
not saying it's not work but it's it doesn't
it's not it's you get together you do stuff you
write songs there's breaks in between you play
live it's all there it's also what i know how
to do but then this is writing to picture and
strict deadlines When somebody's, like, managing
the tour and all the, like, telling you where
you need to be, when you need to be there, and
all that sort of thing. Yeah, when I do my tours,
it's only basically when someone asks me to open
for them, because I can't put it all together.
It's a lot. That's a whole other job. It is.
It's a lot of other jobs, and I respect folks
who do it. I like playing live, and I love playing
with, especially with the Guilty Pleasures, with
the band, but it's... Also, we can't tour all
the time. I love performing live, but I think
with the time I have, I try to record more when
I'm not playing with the truckers or doing other
stuff. It's all a matter of, again, as you get
older, you try to focus your energies. I think
I've always just scattered them all over the
place, and now I'm just trying to hone in on
stuff. I really appreciate you being here, man.
It's been great. Make sure to catch the truckers
this summer on a tour with Deer Tick and Thelma
and the Sleaze. Real quick, tell me about the
Caverns venue because I know y 'all are playing
that in August and it's one of the most unique
places in the world. Have you been? I have not,
but I think I'm coming. You should. It's killer.
It's in Tennessee somewhere and I forget exactly
the town, but it's like you basically... if you
walk into the cavern from the outside it's it's
about a five minute walk to get to the stage
so you're well in there and it's just you're
playing in this huge cavern and it's cold and
it's dank but it's do they make you turn it down
a little bit you know i mean i remember because
we played with wednesday and they were oh yeah
loud and it was i'm sure you have to be under
a certain decibel level but i think it seems
louder because it's like just echoing and reverberating,
but it sounds good. It's so big that it's, it's
not like bouncing like crazy. It's pretty special.
I'm looking forward. I wasn't sure if we'd ever
do it again though. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was, when
I saw you overdoing it again, I was like, I think
I really need to make that happen. If you can
catch any show there, it sounds like a really
amazing place. Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks again,
Jay. Thanks. Appreciate it, man. That was my
interview with Jay Gonzalez, one of the nicest
people in music, period. He's done incredible
things over the years for people I care about.
He's always made a point to come say hi to my
kid when I'd bring her to shows. Just one of
the best guys out there. Not to mention an incredibly
prolific musician. Everything he touches sounds
great. So check out all of his projects. I've
got them linked in the description. Check out
the Drive -By Truckers on tour right now. And
check out their entire catalog. They're literally
one of the best bands ever. And they just keep
getting better. Thanks for listening to Overeducated
and Underemployed. Thanks to Sloan Brothers for
our theme song. Thanks to Lee Baines for inspiring
the title. Hit that subscribe button. Thanks
for listening.