WEBVTT 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.219 Welcome to Overeducated and Underemployed. I'm 00:00:47.219 --> 00:00:51.920 Fedden, and I'm here today after taking a week 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:53.759 off to upgrade some equipment here in the studio. 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:57.240 We have a launch party, and it dawned on me that 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.840 a lot of these interviews are paired with performances. 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:03.140 So I upgraded some equipment, and we're going 00:01:03.140 --> 00:01:06.140 to actually do a live recording of an interview 00:01:06.140 --> 00:01:11.640 podcast here coming up. You'll hear more about 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:13.640 it in the future, but this will be the first 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:16.019 of many. We're going to do an interview in front 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.659 of a studio audience. That'll be really interesting. 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.659 Looking forward to that. Later on this week, 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:25.180 we've got Levi Crumley. He's a comedian out of 00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:29.400 Athens, Georgia that runs, he produces a lot 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:34.140 of shows. He is somebody who is also a musician 00:01:34.140 --> 00:01:38.379 and he's juggled working full time, being a musician, 00:01:38.420 --> 00:01:41.219 producing these shows. So that was an interesting 00:01:41.219 --> 00:01:43.640 conversation. I look forward to hearing it. Today, 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:47.500 we are going to talk about music games. The Nintendo 00:01:47.500 --> 00:01:51.579 Switch 2 is coming out, and with it has a mouse 00:01:51.579 --> 00:01:56.099 function on the new and improved consoles. I 00:01:56.099 --> 00:01:58.859 cannot help but think that they must release 00:01:58.859 --> 00:02:03.280 Mario Paint back on the Super Nintendo Virtual 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:07.180 Console to work with this mouse function. It 00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:10.780 begs for it. Mario Paint was the first kind of 00:02:10.780 --> 00:02:16.500 creative sandbox that I remember ever being on 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:21.759 a console and having extended access to, period. 00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:25.759 I feel like there was a few on PCs, but I didn't 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:29.099 have a PC yet. In a lot of ways, Mario Paint 00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:33.400 made your Super Nintendo feel like a PC. So... 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.259 They got me thinking about all the music games 00:02:36.259 --> 00:02:39.840 that I have played over the years. Ones I still 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:44.620 play. New ones coming out still. And ones I haven't 00:02:44.620 --> 00:02:47.520 played yet, but I'm excited to play. And I gotta 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:49.819 say, it probably all started with Mario Paint. 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.580 I'm also going to talk later on in the episode 00:02:52.580 --> 00:02:56.000 about real world applications for some of these 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:59.419 games. One criticism I remember hearing a lot 00:02:59.419 --> 00:03:02.560 in college was... Oh, well, if you spent that 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:07.199 much time playing real guitar as you do playing 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.919 Guitar Hero, you could maybe be a real guitarist. 00:03:11.139 --> 00:03:14.479 Well, I think there's a lot of reasons why, A, 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:19.360 that's probably not always true. B, people spent 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.360 way less time playing Guitar Hero than you probably 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.659 think they did compared to somebody who needs 00:03:25.659 --> 00:03:29.139 to learn to play guitar and takes a lot of time 00:03:29.139 --> 00:03:33.750 doing that. Lastly, I'd really say that not Guitar 00:03:33.750 --> 00:03:37.289 Hero in particular, but there are certainly music 00:03:37.289 --> 00:03:39.569 games out there that have real -world applications, 00:03:39.830 --> 00:03:43.810 whether musical or otherwise, and we'll talk 00:03:43.810 --> 00:03:46.810 about that too. So Mario Paint was more than 00:03:46.810 --> 00:03:50.650 just a version of Paint, more than just like 00:03:50.650 --> 00:03:55.370 Photoshop or Microsoft Paint on a console, but 00:03:55.370 --> 00:03:59.810 it was full of minigames, the ability to draw 00:03:59.810 --> 00:04:03.560 pictures, The ability to make animations. The 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:05.740 ability to make music. And you could even put 00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:07.800 it all together and make a little mini film with 00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:10.740 the music you made and the little composer. Today, 00:04:10.819 --> 00:04:13.180 I'm going to focus on the little composer, which 00:04:13.180 --> 00:04:15.000 is probably the thing I spent the most time with 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.319 anyway. You basically had a musical staff and 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:20.920 you had a few MIDI sounds. And this is all from 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:22.459 memory. I have not played this game in a long 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:25.160 time. If they do put it out on the virtual console, 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:27.899 I will do an entire episode dedicated to Mario 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:31.579 Paint and reliving its glory. But as far as I 00:04:31.579 --> 00:04:34.980 remember, you had a handful of sounds that you 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:37.360 could use that then you could put in different 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.860 notes on the scale. And you had like a certain 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:44.220 number of measures that you could do. And I feel 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:46.660 like it topped out at 30 seconds or something 00:04:46.660 --> 00:04:49.120 like that when it was all said and done. But 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.879 what was able to happen was you were able to 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:56.699 compose your own music right there on the Super 00:04:56.699 --> 00:04:59.899 Nintendo. Using a variety of different sound 00:04:59.899 --> 00:05:04.740 and using a variety of different time measurements 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:08.740 and things like that. I do think that there was 00:05:08.740 --> 00:05:12.819 a lot of limitations involved, but if you go 00:05:12.819 --> 00:05:15.660 online, even today, you can see a lot of creative 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:18.420 things being done. And that's a theme you've 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:21.139 probably heard already a lot of in this podcast 00:05:21.139 --> 00:05:24.100 is that sometimes constraint can be good for 00:05:24.100 --> 00:05:27.160 creativity. And having a certain set of parameters 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:33.579 is required in order to not get lost in rabbit 00:05:33.579 --> 00:05:36.720 holes. And sometimes just not being able to do 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:39.319 something makes you come up with a more creative 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:41.959 way of doing it. So I think there were some really 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:43.899 amazing things made in Mario Paint, just like 00:05:43.899 --> 00:05:45.699 you've seen amazing things made in Minecraft 00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:50.459 and every other kind of simple sandbox game. 00:05:50.740 --> 00:05:53.779 This was, in a lot of ways, the first sandbox 00:05:53.779 --> 00:05:56.800 game. You can make little animations and you 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.199 can make music, you can make movies with it in 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:02.540 that sense. But there's also, there's a fly swatting 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:05.800 game. It really, I feel like it essentially taught 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:09.240 kids how to learn, use a mouse. But the music 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:15.379 game really just a little composition maker was 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:18.220 really fun. And then the next game that I got 00:06:18.220 --> 00:06:20.800 into that would be considered like a straight 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.360 up music game. And I played this incessantly. 00:06:24.009 --> 00:06:25.790 And I'm going to talk about both of these games 00:06:25.790 --> 00:06:28.730 as one game, just because the machines are right 00:06:28.730 --> 00:06:31.350 next to each other at my arcade. Essentially 00:06:31.350 --> 00:06:33.910 the same game with a different footpad layout, 00:06:34.029 --> 00:06:35.870 but I'm going to talk about Dance Dance Revolution 00:06:35.870 --> 00:06:40.250 and Pump It Up. Now, Pump It Up was just a Korean 00:06:40.250 --> 00:06:45.389 company that made a dance game akin to Dance 00:06:45.389 --> 00:06:49.350 Revolution. If Dance Revolution had the four 00:06:49.350 --> 00:06:51.899 directions up, down, left, right, Pump It Up 00:06:51.899 --> 00:06:55.240 had pads in the opposite places. So there was 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:57.759 one in the middle and there was one in the four 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.379 corners. Think about a five on a die. Where DDR 00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:06.699 looked more like a control pad on a Nintendo. 00:07:07.139 --> 00:07:09.480 So you had the ability to have totally different 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.720 moves. There was different music licensed. Very 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.379 little crossover because one was a Japanese company 00:07:15.379 --> 00:07:18.500 and one was a Korean company. And it was actually... 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:22.300 The first foray of K -pop into the United States 00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:26.480 that I was ever aware of. I'm sure that it wasn't 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.879 the first, but that was the first time me and 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:33.079 a lot of my friends ever heard K -pop. And I 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:35.980 gotta say, it never really stuck for me, but 00:07:35.980 --> 00:07:39.319 there was music in that game that I came away 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:44.740 really liking, including like a remix of Beethoven's 00:07:44.740 --> 00:07:46.839 Ninth or something like that, or Beethoven's 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:49.399 Fifth, I can't remember. But it introduced me 00:07:49.399 --> 00:07:52.800 also to the concept of classical music. And I'm 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.220 talking, I was like 8, 9, 10 years old at this 00:07:55.220 --> 00:07:58.100 point, of classical music being able to be more 00:07:58.100 --> 00:08:00.819 than just classical music and not just being 00:08:00.819 --> 00:08:04.160 stuck in a box. And that remake stuck with me. 00:08:04.300 --> 00:08:07.560 There was a couple of K -pop songs that I can't 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:10.279 remember now, but I remember. I didn't go buy 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:12.579 the album or anything, but I enjoyed listening 00:08:12.579 --> 00:08:14.720 to them when other people played the same song 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:17.240 on the game. And I will say, though, that... 00:08:17.399 --> 00:08:20.519 Eventually, I think dance games did get me into 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.279 some music that I never would have listened to 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.579 and that music that I did listen to independently 00:08:25.579 --> 00:08:28.220 of the game. And I'll talk about that when we 00:08:28.220 --> 00:08:31.199 get there. But I don't think this game got me 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.620 into any music that I went and listened to out 00:08:33.620 --> 00:08:37.159 on my own. That hadn't happened yet. But it did 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.879 get me into music and make me appreciate music 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:42.600 that I don't think I ever would have been exposed 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:46.929 to at that age, certainly. And also, it was certainly 00:08:46.929 --> 00:08:49.730 never anything that was on the radio at that 00:08:49.730 --> 00:08:53.309 point. And this was long before streaming services 00:08:53.309 --> 00:08:57.190 or really the internet had much ability to share 00:08:57.190 --> 00:09:01.450 music at all. So at a certain point, it just 00:09:01.450 --> 00:09:05.370 becomes this issue where, so at a certain point, 00:09:05.470 --> 00:09:09.490 I think like any exposure to music you wouldn't 00:09:09.490 --> 00:09:12.049 hear otherwise is good, especially if you end 00:09:12.049 --> 00:09:14.440 up digging it. But as somebody who wasn't super 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:19.980 into anime, wasn't seeking out Japanese or Korean 00:09:19.980 --> 00:09:22.740 pop, it exposed me to a whole different world 00:09:22.740 --> 00:09:25.279 of music that I only really listened to when 00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:26.860 playing the game, but I played that game a lot. 00:09:27.259 --> 00:09:32.139 And then I think it really set me up for just 00:09:32.139 --> 00:09:34.779 being really open -minded about music in a way 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:38.059 that even when I got to work at independent record 00:09:38.059 --> 00:09:43.309 stores, I felt like... On some levels, I was 00:09:43.309 --> 00:09:45.529 more open to different things than they were 00:09:45.529 --> 00:09:48.990 because they would, a lot of my coworkers, be 00:09:48.990 --> 00:09:54.049 a lot more close -minded about pop and what it 00:09:54.049 --> 00:09:56.690 could be or couldn't be. And I'm not going to 00:09:56.690 --> 00:09:59.429 be wrong, a lot of it was garbage, but because 00:09:59.429 --> 00:10:04.889 it was such an independent vibe, anything that 00:10:04.889 --> 00:10:10.289 had clean production was really dismissed. I 00:10:10.289 --> 00:10:13.350 think that and then working at those stores is 00:10:13.350 --> 00:10:15.309 what really set me up to have such a diverse 00:10:15.309 --> 00:10:18.889 taste in music. I think that really leads me 00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:22.909 nicely into the next game or series of games 00:10:22.909 --> 00:10:25.149 that I was obsessed with. There were several 00:10:25.149 --> 00:10:27.309 Dance Revolution games and Pump It Up games, 00:10:27.409 --> 00:10:32.549 but came Guitar Hero and Rock Band. And Guitar 00:10:32.549 --> 00:10:36.210 Hero was fun, but I think I really started to 00:10:36.210 --> 00:10:40.169 enjoy it when the full band setup came out. You 00:10:40.169 --> 00:10:42.950 could essentially have karaoke along. I've always 00:10:42.950 --> 00:10:46.730 been a fan of karaoke, personally. But then also 00:10:46.730 --> 00:10:50.669 the drum set was really great. And I think of 00:10:50.669 --> 00:10:53.429 all the instruments in Rock Band that I played, 00:10:53.490 --> 00:10:55.169 I never did play the edition with keyboards. 00:10:55.389 --> 00:10:58.049 But of all the instruments that I played in Rock 00:10:58.049 --> 00:11:01.090 Band, I would say that the drums were most like 00:11:01.090 --> 00:11:04.169 playing the real instrument. But the nice thing 00:11:04.169 --> 00:11:06.940 about the multiplayer is... People with no musical 00:11:06.940 --> 00:11:09.679 inclination or people that liked karaoke or people 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:12.440 that just wanted to watch other people goof around. 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.399 I think there was a kind of a place for everybody 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.179 in your friend group with that game. I would 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:20.639 have groups of people over. We'd rotate out band 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:23.559 members. Some of us would just watch. Some of 00:11:23.559 --> 00:11:26.539 us would sing harmonies. I remember when Beatles 00:11:26.539 --> 00:11:29.259 Rock Band came out. It was the first one that 00:11:29.259 --> 00:11:32.100 had harmonies built into the game. And we spent 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:34.980 a lot of time with that. It was... And it was 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:36.779 also, I think, the first one that allowed you 00:11:36.779 --> 00:11:40.460 to build kind of set lists where you could play 00:11:40.460 --> 00:11:43.100 one song after the other without a pause or a 00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:46.620 break. And they would let you play sequences 00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:49.960 from Beatles albums. And I just thought that 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:53.519 was always a lot of fun. Really, the Beatles 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:56.679 rock band kind of was set apart, I think, from 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:01.539 the rest of rock band and Guitar Hero. really 00:12:01.539 --> 00:12:03.519 they were made by the same people or the same 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:05.799 company and then just a lot of rights got bounced 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:07.940 around and some of it was like controllers and 00:12:07.940 --> 00:12:10.460 some of it was the company that made controllers 00:12:10.460 --> 00:12:13.340 eventually started making games but at the end 00:12:13.340 --> 00:12:16.399 of the day they made a really long lasting series 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.279 of games that i still play rock band four or 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:22.799 maybe it's guitar here i think it's rock band 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:25.460 once in a blue moon now i still have a setup 00:12:25.460 --> 00:12:28.419 for it but i think like it was the multiplayer 00:12:28.419 --> 00:12:31.000 much like with Dance Revolution and Pump It Up, 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:34.639 there was multiplayer game modes. I remember 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:36.919 a competition we had at our local arcade where 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:39.940 people would do routines where they ended up 00:12:39.940 --> 00:12:42.279 switching pads in the middle of the dance and 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:45.100 things like that. And then with Rock Band, you 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:48.799 had the same kind of collaboration. Just say 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:50.840 what you will about the technical aspects of 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.340 it, but I think it really did capture what it 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:56.970 feels like to play with a group of people. Especially 00:12:56.970 --> 00:12:59.730 when you got in sync and the singer nailed it. 00:12:59.929 --> 00:13:04.049 It was a lot of fun. And I don't know that there 00:13:04.049 --> 00:13:06.529 was much practicing going involved except maybe 00:13:06.529 --> 00:13:09.470 singing or drumming. But the guitar, you really 00:13:09.470 --> 00:13:12.389 just were getting some basic rhythm skills and 00:13:12.389 --> 00:13:16.389 nothing else. And I think, if anything, it helped 00:13:16.389 --> 00:13:19.330 me as like a non -player. And I never learned 00:13:19.330 --> 00:13:21.509 to play guitar very well because I'm left -handed. 00:13:21.549 --> 00:13:24.110 I only had right -handed teachers. They didn't 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:26.320 really know what to do with me. Hit a ceiling 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:28.480 very quickly every time I learned how to play. 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:32.460 And I just think it was harder for me to learn 00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:34.200 than a lot of other people. I have big hands, 00:13:34.299 --> 00:13:38.600 big meaty hands that can be difficult. But I 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.879 think Guitar Hero was a good outlet for me to 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.220 learn what guitar parts sounded like by themselves. 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:49.340 Songs sound really weird when you miss the guitar 00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:53.399 solos in Guitar Hero. So you learn to pick them 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.960 out really well. I think it did change the way 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.360 I listen to music a little bit. Just listening 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.059 to all the different parts a little bit more 00:14:01.059 --> 00:14:04.440 individually. And that game was more than just 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:07.279 a game. It was something we did pretty frequently 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:10.279 for a few years where we'd have get -togethers 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:13.559 based around it. Multiple groups of friends, 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.779 too, at different points in time. I think there's 00:14:16.779 --> 00:14:18.500 something to be said about feeling like you're 00:14:18.500 --> 00:14:22.320 part of the music. I think video games are all 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.669 about living out fantasy. It definitely did a 00:14:24.669 --> 00:14:26.870 pretty good job of letting you live out the rock 00:14:26.870 --> 00:14:31.590 star fantasy to an extent. Certainly like the 00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:34.950 garage band fantasy, even if you had no musical 00:14:34.950 --> 00:14:38.169 talent. But I think what's important is like 00:14:38.169 --> 00:14:42.110 the tactile feeling of feeling like you had an 00:14:42.110 --> 00:14:46.070 impact on the music by what you were doing. So 00:14:46.070 --> 00:14:49.289 if you missed a guitar part or note, you didn't 00:14:49.289 --> 00:14:51.990 hear that note played in the song on screen. 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.139 And they created some group dynamics too. It 00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:57.220 was like, oh man, you fucked that part up and 00:14:57.220 --> 00:15:00.059 we all wanted to hear it or whatever. But I think 00:15:00.059 --> 00:15:03.120 there's also like an aspect of it where it was 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.940 like competitive, but not, but we all still root 00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:08.720 each other on because we were part of the same 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.779 band. But I think it captured something that 00:15:11.779 --> 00:15:15.019 not a lot of other games really had captured 00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:19.779 yet where what you did impacted how the game 00:15:19.779 --> 00:15:23.639 sound in the sense that With Dance Revolution, 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.460 I feel like if you missed dance parts, I don't 00:15:27.460 --> 00:15:31.360 feel like it skipped parts of the song. If you 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.840 missed a certain number, you'd fail out. But 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.580 I don't recall there being a certain amount where 00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:43.480 you just had to get the note. I feel like there 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:45.559 wasn't any part of the game where it stopped 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:48.879 playing the song just based on the actual steps 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.169 you missed. I've also dabbled in games like Just 00:15:52.169 --> 00:15:55.269 Dance, but then I really got into a game that 00:15:55.269 --> 00:15:58.889 exists on console, PC, but I think the ultimate 00:15:58.889 --> 00:16:02.230 version of it is in virtual reality called Tetris 00:16:02.230 --> 00:16:05.750 Effect Connected. Now, the gameplay is just Tetris, 00:16:05.750 --> 00:16:10.929 but in the same way that Guitar Hero makes you 00:16:10.929 --> 00:16:14.610 have a tactile connection to the music, Tetris 00:16:14.610 --> 00:16:16.809 Connected actually really takes it to a whole 00:16:16.809 --> 00:16:19.889 new level. Every time you move a piece, It creates 00:16:19.889 --> 00:16:23.090 some synesthesia in the background and affects 00:16:23.090 --> 00:16:26.289 notes and sounds based on whatever level and 00:16:26.289 --> 00:16:28.190 song you're playing. Each level is a different 00:16:28.190 --> 00:16:32.190 song. The music is from all over the world. And 00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:36.629 the song progresses as you clear lines. And so 00:16:36.629 --> 00:16:39.850 clearing the lines and rhythm is very satisfying. 00:16:40.350 --> 00:16:43.870 But also, every time you move a piece, it affects 00:16:43.870 --> 00:16:47.450 the background. Not just colors, but the way 00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:52.379 things move. and what you hear and so it creates 00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:56.039 this whole complete experience of sound and color 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.220 and tactile feeling where just rotating a tetris 00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:03.279 piece has a huge impact on the environment around 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:05.740 you and you play through the levels and they 00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:08.140 get increasingly more difficult and you reach 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:12.119 a meditative state i must say you start to have 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:16.079 the tetris effect right there in the game where 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.200 you're just in the zone And I think the music 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:23.380 aids you in getting there very quickly. It also 00:17:23.380 --> 00:17:25.500 turned me on to some music I'd never listened 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:28.500 to before. Music that I have gone back and listened 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:31.180 to outside of the game. And the next two games 00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:33.279 I'm going to talk about are also virtual reality. 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:35.380 And one of them is debatably not even a game. 00:17:35.539 --> 00:17:39.519 But Tetris Effect Connected is the finest example 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:43.920 of how a regular game can incorporate music. 00:17:44.619 --> 00:17:48.380 to make it more than what it was before. And 00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:53.440 a game that's 40 years old plus remains super 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.119 fresh. Because at its core, the gameplay is still 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.339 just Tetris. Beat Saber is a game that I've played 00:18:00.339 --> 00:18:02.579 a lot of in virtual reality as well. A lot of 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:04.559 y 'all are probably familiar with it. You have 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.740 lightsabers in your hands. You slice blocks to 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:11.460 the rhythm of music as they fly at you in a 3D 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:15.549 space in virtual reality. Once again, the tactile 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:17.690 feeling of slicing through the blocks on rhythm. 00:18:17.809 --> 00:18:20.390 There's haptic feedback in the controllers. You 00:18:20.390 --> 00:18:22.450 do feel it when you slice through the blocks. 00:18:22.890 --> 00:18:26.289 They're flying at your face, moving faster than 00:18:26.289 --> 00:18:29.869 you can really turn to look at. And once again, 00:18:29.950 --> 00:18:32.670 you get into kind of a meditative dance space. 00:18:32.990 --> 00:18:35.390 And this game has gotten me into artists that 00:18:35.390 --> 00:18:38.009 I'd heard and didn't really even care about. 00:18:38.190 --> 00:18:39.849 It's not like I'd never heard of them before. 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:42.680 But I got into their music because their levels 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.460 in Beat Saber were just so fun that listening 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:48.140 to their music later, it was almost just like 00:18:48.140 --> 00:18:51.839 a Pavlovian association where I was like, oh 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.059 my God, I like this because I had fun playing 00:18:55.059 --> 00:18:58.940 this level. And I started to understand at that 00:18:58.940 --> 00:19:01.440 point in my life, I'm not a person that goes 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.819 to the club to go dancing or to listen to DJs 00:19:04.819 --> 00:19:06.240 or anything like that. That's not really ever 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.279 been my scene. I love going to live music. I 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.500 love... techno music and house music and dance 00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:16.019 music but i've never really gone to the club 00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:19.579 to listen to it but i started to understand how 00:19:19.579 --> 00:19:22.160 there were songs that i didn't necessarily like 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.900 or even think were that great but super popular 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:28.500 because of like club scenes and it's usually 00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:31.039 because of like the experience associated with 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:34.000 that song maybe you just had a really fun night 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:38.470 at the club and that song was part of it And 00:19:38.470 --> 00:19:43.309 so that song continues to be, or a song is just 00:19:43.309 --> 00:19:47.990 a certain amount of fun in certain settings where 00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:51.069 it might not have been as fun in another setting. 00:19:51.349 --> 00:19:54.990 So I think there's something to be said about 00:19:54.990 --> 00:19:58.650 different experiences involving music, increasing 00:19:58.650 --> 00:20:01.089 your appreciation for different types of music. 00:20:01.210 --> 00:20:04.200 I think if you might not. really understand this 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:06.740 the appeal of swing music unless you got into 00:20:06.740 --> 00:20:10.119 swing dancing at some point or really understand 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:16.500 the appeal of certain types of house music unless 00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:21.079 you understand like the lineage that led there 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:24.180 or i'm just spitballing examples here but my 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:27.039 point is it's everything's sometimes context 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:30.140 is important sometimes it can be detrimental 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:32.950 but i think There's different types of music 00:20:32.950 --> 00:20:35.190 for different types of situations. We don't often 00:20:35.190 --> 00:20:38.150 sit around and listen to movie scores unless 00:20:38.150 --> 00:20:43.109 we associate that movie with good feelings. And 00:20:43.109 --> 00:20:44.970 I think about the interview that I had with J. 00:20:44.990 --> 00:20:48.309 Roddy Walston where he was talking about the 00:20:48.309 --> 00:20:50.450 Wayne's World soundtrack. And if you haven't 00:20:50.450 --> 00:20:52.650 listened to that, go back and listen to it. Hit 00:20:52.650 --> 00:20:55.650 subscribe, all that good stuff. But Roddy was 00:20:55.650 --> 00:20:57.269 talking about how initially they were listening 00:20:57.269 --> 00:20:58.670 to the Wayne's World soundtrack just because 00:20:58.670 --> 00:21:00.980 they loved the movie. They wanted to capture 00:21:00.980 --> 00:21:02.880 the feeling that they had when they watched the 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.119 movie, he and his friends. They ended up loving 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.539 a lot of the music from the soundtrack just because 00:21:07.539 --> 00:21:10.339 they had listened to it so much. And objectively, 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.140 mostly fantastic music. There's no reason that's 00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:17.299 a surprise that they ended up liking that music. 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:19.940 But the point is how they got there. And how 00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:22.460 they got there was because they were trying to 00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:25.230 capture the experience of the movie again. It 00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:27.230 wasn't like back then. It wasn't like now where 00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:29.089 you could just pop the movie on streaming anytime 00:21:29.089 --> 00:21:31.630 you wanted. They had all seen it in the theater 00:21:31.630 --> 00:21:34.089 one summer, and they got the soundtrack, and 00:21:34.089 --> 00:21:37.990 that made them re -experience the film again. 00:21:38.369 --> 00:21:40.769 And then they ended up loving the music from 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:44.549 the soundtrack. So I think that type of experience 00:21:44.549 --> 00:21:47.250 is pretty universal just depending on the situation, 00:21:47.569 --> 00:21:50.630 right? There could just be a song that reminds 00:21:50.630 --> 00:21:53.509 you of something very personal. that you really 00:21:53.509 --> 00:21:56.490 like or it could just be some weird association 00:21:56.490 --> 00:22:00.329 with a fun time or it could just because you 00:22:00.329 --> 00:22:03.750 have affinity for the goddamn song and you don't 00:22:03.750 --> 00:22:06.589 have to justify it to anybody but my point is 00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:08.869 that when you shut yourself off to certain experiences 00:22:08.869 --> 00:22:11.869 or certain types of music because you haven't 00:22:11.869 --> 00:22:15.329 had certain i think you're probably doing yourself 00:22:15.329 --> 00:22:19.589 a disservice but it also makes sense to me why 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.400 There's certain music that certain people just 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.240 won't really see the appeal of unless they've 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:28.380 had certain experiences that go along with it. 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:31.680 And that kind of leads me, Beat Saber, I just 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:33.799 want to talk about that for another minute. The 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:36.259 level design in that game is beautiful. Each 00:22:36.259 --> 00:22:39.019 artist typically has its own themed background. 00:22:39.819 --> 00:22:43.839 There's a queen song pack that I think of that 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:48.079 has fantastic backgrounds and level design. And 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:50.700 the game's just a lot of fun, and you get lost 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:53.180 in your own little world of dance. And I've got 00:22:53.180 --> 00:22:54.819 thunder here, so I'm going to get off here in 00:22:54.819 --> 00:22:57.759 just a second. But what I wanted to talk about 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:02.500 mainly to end this with is application more than 00:23:02.500 --> 00:23:05.660 anything than a game in virtual reality as well 00:23:05.660 --> 00:23:11.339 called TribeXR. TribeXR is actually a DJ simulation 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:15.140 suite that gives you access to... virtual versions 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:19.500 of full techniques, turntables and CDJs and professional 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:22.140 grade equipment using your own music library 00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:25.900 and has real life DJs that will meet with you 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:29.480 in VR and give you lessons. Is this a game or 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.059 is this a training module or does it matter? 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:34.640 Because you can get in there and just play and 00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:37.259 have fun, but you are working with real equipment. 00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:39.480 I think you are learning skills that are transferable 00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:42.640 to the real world when you use the same type 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:45.390 of equipment. And I'll leave a link in the description 00:23:45.390 --> 00:23:50.069 of this episode for TribeXR. I think it's really 00:23:50.069 --> 00:23:54.109 worth checking out. TribeXR has a whole community 00:23:54.109 --> 00:23:58.170 surrounding it. DJs having sets with people in 00:23:58.170 --> 00:24:01.289 the room, in the virtual room with them, sharing 00:24:01.289 --> 00:24:04.170 the same virtual space. And if you've never done 00:24:04.170 --> 00:24:07.210 virtual reality, I know this is hard to comprehend 00:24:07.210 --> 00:24:10.079 to an extent, but... I think when you hear my 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:12.019 interview that's coming up in a few weeks with 00:24:12.019 --> 00:24:15.299 Tommy Simbazo, who is a comedian who hosts an 00:24:15.299 --> 00:24:19.140 open night comedy night every Monday night, but 00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:21.940 has also done a lot of professional work, has 00:24:21.940 --> 00:24:24.599 opened for people like Stavros. He's done Stavros' 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:28.920 podcast. I believe his nipple became viral on 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.279 that podcast. I don't mean that he caught a virus. 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:34.680 I mean that it went really popular on the interweb. 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:37.799 But what I will say... When you're sharing a 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.460 space with a person, your suspension of disbelief 00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:43.799 is pretty great that you're not in the same room 00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:47.799 until you try and actually touch them. Yes, you 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:49.759 might be talking to a cartoon version of them, 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.519 but you feel like you're sharing a physical space. 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:54.980 You can interact with the same space and objects 00:24:54.980 --> 00:24:57.960 in that space, the same people in that space. 00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:03.440 And so these DJ sets in TribeX are done by DJs 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:07.609 with people in the room watching them. are quite 00:25:07.609 --> 00:25:11.650 interesting and very much feel like you're in 00:25:11.650 --> 00:25:15.609 the room with a real dj they are real djs it's 00:25:15.609 --> 00:25:20.210 really interesting though where vr has gone and 00:25:20.210 --> 00:25:22.849 i think it's gone more direction of things like 00:25:22.849 --> 00:25:25.970 music games like beat saber i don't think we'll 00:25:25.970 --> 00:25:29.029 ever die completely community type things like 00:25:29.029 --> 00:25:33.390 vr chat and then you have horizon worlds and 00:25:33.390 --> 00:25:35.170 some of those other social platforms and then 00:25:35.549 --> 00:25:38.750 Really, at its core, TribeXR is also a social 00:25:38.750 --> 00:25:41.670 platform. But having these communities surrounding 00:25:41.670 --> 00:25:46.849 music in games, in VR, just makes sense to me. 00:25:46.910 --> 00:25:49.710 There's actually raves in virtual reality, in 00:25:49.710 --> 00:25:53.410 VR chat, with live DJs and light shows that you 00:25:53.410 --> 00:25:57.849 couldn't even create in real life. And my point 00:25:57.849 --> 00:26:01.430 is just that music has been an integral part 00:26:01.430 --> 00:26:04.170 of gaming, and now gaming is becoming an integral 00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:07.549 part of music. and I'm not even sure where the 00:26:07.549 --> 00:26:10.329 line is when it comes to something like TribeXR. 00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:13.349 I highly encourage you to check out all of the 00:26:13.349 --> 00:26:16.289 games I've talked about today. If there's a music 00:26:16.289 --> 00:26:18.849 game that you love that I have not talked about, 00:26:19.069 --> 00:26:23.750 shoot me an email at feddunxr at gmail .com. 00:26:23.769 --> 00:26:28.730 That's F -E -D -D -U -N -X -R at gmail .com. 00:26:28.950 --> 00:26:31.829 Tell me about the game that I missed. I'll play 00:26:31.829 --> 00:26:33.869 it, and I'll talk about it in a sequel episode 00:26:33.869 --> 00:26:36.809 to this one. Make sure to come back later this 00:26:36.809 --> 00:26:40.130 week for my interview with Levi Crumley. We talked 00:26:40.130 --> 00:26:44.450 for almost two hours, trimmed out some of the 00:26:44.450 --> 00:26:48.289 fat, the ums, the uhs, got it down to about 90 00:26:48.289 --> 00:26:50.430 minutes. I'm going to release this one in one 00:26:50.430 --> 00:26:53.509 chunk for you guys. Try something a little different. 00:26:53.930 --> 00:26:56.410 I've split up my previous interviews. I'm going 00:26:56.410 --> 00:26:58.190 to put this one out in one episode and see what 00:26:58.190 --> 00:27:01.390 happens. And then next week, we're going to have 00:27:01.390 --> 00:27:06.039 Sloan Simpson from the Sloan Brothers. how he 00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:09.799 never plays live music and still manages to work 00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:13.720 with some of the most amazing artists out there. 00:27:14.059 --> 00:27:16.859 He'll talk also about his project with Jay Gonzalez 00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:19.359 of the Drive -By Truckers. And then Jay Gonzalez, 00:27:19.579 --> 00:27:22.019 in a couple of weeks, will be on the show. We 00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:25.240 got a lot planned for you guys, so make sure 00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.539 you hit that subscribe button. This has been 00:27:27.539 --> 00:27:31.480 Overeducated and Underemployed. I'm Fedden. Have 00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:35.529 a great day. Thank you.