Welcome back to overeducated and underemployed.
I'm Fedden. I'm your host. And today we're getting
back into our series on nostalgia. Today we're
talking about movies and television. That being
said, I do think that it's a good way to talk
about all of these things. With movies, we live
in the age of reboots and sequels. But I would
argue that it's always been that way, in a way.
We may have always... told the same stories over
and over again. The difference now, I think,
is that instead of just telling the same stories
over and over again, we're doing it with the
same characters. And we've created a modern mythology
with our comic books and things like that, but
we haven't really moved beyond that. You could
argue that there's only so many stories to tell
and that they've all been told. And what becomes
unique about the stories are the characters and
the places and the settings. I think about the
movie 10 Things I Hate About You, for instance.
It's a reimagining or retelling of The Taming
of the Shrew, which is Shakespeare, but it's
set in Seattle in the late 90s and it's a teen
comedy. Same story, but what made it compelling
was that it was completely different characters,
completely different settings, and it was updated
to be told in our time, so it was relatable to
the people living. You could argue that a lot
of comic book stories take, and some of them
blatantly take, their inspiration from mythology
and, like, North mythology, I'm thinking in particular,
but certainly Greek mythology and Roman mythology
as well. But the difference is, like, instead
of having a reimagining with a new set of characters,
we're having a reimaginings with the same sets
of characters. Adam Conover recently released
a video about how the age of the old Hollywood
star was dead. And what he meant by that was
that people no longer went to see movies because
an actor was in them. Or if they did, it was
still like the same actors from like the older
Hollywood era. Now they go see the new Spider
-Man, I think was the example. They don't go
see Tobey Maguire, they go see Spider -Man. One
might argue that some of those old Hollywood
actors were pretty much always playing the same
character and you were putting those characters
into different settings but you could also argue
that let's talk about the different ways nostalgia
is used in films and tv the biggest way we're
seeing lately is with reboots sequels that's
the most like obvious way right so i think sometimes
they're making a reboot of something where like
maybe they couldn't fully realize the vision
of the story in the first production or Maybe
the original production was pretty cheesy and
now they want to take a more serious take on
it I'm thinking of something like Doctor Who
or even Lost in Space Sometimes it's literally
just to hold on to the intellectual property
rights of something and that is when we start
to go down the rabbit hole of productions that
are basically awash from the beginning. Nobody
cares about them from the beginning and so they
basically just end up being a write -off for
the studio, right? I think about the different
sequels that have been made. Sometimes decades
later, Mad Max Fury Road I think is a really
good example of a movie that he wanted to make
from the beginning, it seems like. Furiosa especially
is a story he wanted to tell. a long time ago
and never really had the money or the means to
do it. I think that's a really good example of
a movie that was made for the right reasons.
And it shows those movies were quite enjoyable.
And I'm not even a fan of the original Mad Max
movie. So that's a great example of something
that was made for a new generation. There was
no nostalgia factor at all for me. In fact, I
tried to go back and watch. some of the old ones.
They weren't enjoyable. It wasn't something that
was interesting. But the new ones, both Fury
Road and Furiosa, were interesting to me. They
made me want to like those old movies but then
I still couldn't do it. I really liked the world
building in Furiosa. In Fury Road, I watched
Furiosa first and then I watched Fury Road and
I thought that Fury Road was not as good. But
I do think that Fury Road is more like the original
Mad Max movies. And that might be why I didn't
like the original Mad Max movies that much. I
liked the epic story of Furiosa, the world building,
and I was really glad I watched it first, even
though it did feel like it was a letdown to watch
Fury Road second, just because I felt like the
acting was great in both. But you could tell
Furiosa was trying to be its own thing, whereas
as like Mad Max, Fury Road, I could tell that
they were especially... Max's character right
like he was clearly the same character from those
old movies and There was some of the same like
stylistic Like fever dreamish shots where I felt
like furious. It was much more Shot like an epic
a traditional American epic or something like
that and then the converse of that where you
have an entirely original story that relies heavily
on nostalgia I'm thinking of a movie like Wreck
-It Ralph where essentially all the characters
are either from other games or homages to characters
from other games. And it relies heavily on the
nostalgia factor of games, playing games in the
arcade. But I think what's shifted in Hollywood
is that actors used to almost be like an intellectual
property. In fact, early on in the studio model,
like... actors were bound to one studio at a
time. And so I think what Adam Conover misses
when he's talking about the way that the old
movie star has disappeared, part of that is because
the studios found that they no longer owned the
actor and building up the actor was not as profitable
for them as building up the intellectual property.
So I think that when you look at someone like
Harrison Ford's career, honestly like I don't
know that Indiana Jones and Han Solo are much
different characters. And I don't know that he
really played anything but Harrison Ford playing
X, right? And in a way, Harrison Ford was the
character. He was Indiana Jones, he was Han Solo,
but he was always the same speech patterns, the
same kind of demeanor. I don't know that Han
Solo was afraid of snakes, but he sure didn't
like womp rats. So I just think like when Adam
Conover talks about how the shift of Hollywood
went from the actor to the intellectual property
and like our desire to go see an actor diminished
as the rise of the intellectual property. I think
that's intentional by the movie studios because
old Hollywood had a lot of stake in building
up their actors. New Hollywood has a lot of stake
in building up their intellectual property and
milking it for everything they can. So while
I know and recognize that Harrison Ford was not
contractually obligated to any one studio, that
model was still in place, were still in existence
for actors to build up themselves as somebody.
You still don't have anybody like that now. You
had, obviously, icons throughout film history
from Marilyn Monroe to Meryl Streep to... Actors
and actresses who would the point Adam was making
is actors and actresses who would draw Ticket
sales just because they were in the movie I think
he rightfully points out that doesn't really
exist anymore And then when it does it's still
the same actors that were doing it 20 years ago
the studios realized that milking the actor and
the actor being the draw didn't give them the
same security as the intellectual property being
the draw right well Marilyn Monroe may have been
tied to one studio, Harrison Ford was not. And
so as time went on, the studios started shifting
towards building up their intellectual properties,
i .e. Star Wars over Harrison Ford, i .e. Han
Solo over Harrison Ford, Indiana Jones over Harrison
Ford. Sometimes these are just cash grabs. One
thing that's unfortunate about things being politicized
in film and like all this argument about representation
and things being woke or not woke is like when
people criticize like ridiculous things about
a film the little mermaid being black you then
you can't really critique the movie in any real
way without people just assuming that might be
your motivation so it's really harmful to everybody
involved because you can't then give a fair critique
of a movie without it being some kind of political
statement or being perceived as one at least.
And you can't make fair criticisms of a film.
I haven't seen The New Snow White, okay? I've
heard it's not great. But I also don't know what
the motivation of those people are that tell
me that it's not great. Because, I'll be honest,
I believe that it probably isn't great. But I
don't believe that just because they altered
it or they made it a different story. For one,
It's probably not for me. Now, you might say
duh, but I'm actually somebody who really enjoys
a lot of Disney movies, a lot of Pixar films.
I love animation. I might even watch the Snow
White movie at some point. It's not something
that I was like excited or upset that they were
doing though. But when people criticize it for
artificial or hateful reasons, it makes it impossible
to give a fair critique of the film without having
your motives questioned. So, like, the people
that really don't want to like the movie, they
complain about it for absurd reasons, are doing
themselves a disservice, because there's probably
things about the movie that they could be critiquing
that are legitimate, that maybe they wouldn't
show their cards so much, or something like that.
Then it becomes this totem pole for, oh, these
people don't like it because of this, so I'm
gonna like it because of that. And then, all
of a sudden, you stop being like... critical
of the film as a film and it becomes this like
tent pole for whatever you think it stands for
and that's We're talking about a Disney movie
here folks. It's absurd I feel like I've gone
down a rabbit hole here, but I think it's important
to point out that when Something like the Ghostbusters
remake is critiqued for having a female cast
that's irrelevant, but it makes it really hard
to lob legitimate criticisms at the film without
just sounding like you're one of the people that
are jumping on that bandwagon. And I think it's
really silly to even give those people a voice
in the first place. We're talking about a handful
of people on Twitter. It's not news. But it makes
it also, I think, impossible for a studio to
sometimes evaluate whether or not their work
is worth doing because they get on this mission
like, oh, we're gonna rewrite this story. And
it all becomes something way more than just like
a kids movie. man one reason i try and keep political
debate current events out of this podcast as
much as i can although i might be violating that
right now is because i don't think that everything
needs to be politicized i don't think everything
needs to have a message i don't think everything
needs to be political i think it's great and
this is somebody who's my favorite band is one
of the most political bands out there and most
of the music i listen to is political but I don't
necessarily want my movies and television to
always be political, too. And I don't always
want my music to be political either. I don't
necessarily need to listen to punk rock 24 -7
or listen to something that's making a statement
all the time. In fact, once the statement has
been made and it becomes integrated into my,
like, worldview, this is why I'm doing a three
-part series, because the lines are definitely
blurred between... what nostalgia is for all
these three things and really nostalgia was just
a way for me to group these things together and
talk about them. Now on the other hand I have
not seen this either but I've heard that the
new Looney Tunes the Porky Pig Daffy Duck movie
is fantastic. I'm actually probably gonna watch
it this weekend so I will probably review that
along with a couple of concerts that I've been
talking about reviewing and a few other things
on next week's episode. But to me, it sounds
like they went back to basics on that. Instead
of trying to make a movie about all of the Looney
Tunes, they just made like a really good Porky
Pig Duck movie. And I don't even know if it's
got Porky Pig and Daffy Duck. I think it does,
but I haven't seen it. But I've heard that they
just focus on a couple of Looney Tunes characters
instead of trying to put the whole cast of characters
into a movie, and it becomes this convoluted
mess where it's like... the stakes become too
high for a Looney Tune and all of a sudden you
have something that's supposed to be silly and
fun becomes this action -packed adventure that's
really not anything to do with what the spirit
of the Looney Tunes was I'm thinking about the
movie Back in Action with Brendan Fraser which
was really an odd film that they put out in the
early mid -2000s it had a really hip soundtrack
had a bunch of bands on it that were like But
they were too old to really care about a Looney
Tunes movie, too. So it was like this marketing
thing where they tried to access every demographic.
They had Brendan Fraser in it so the parents
would be interested. Then they had the Looney
Tunes for the kids. And then they had this soundtrack
of all this pop punk from the mid -2000s, early
2000s that would make it so all the young adults
would want to go. It worked. I went and saw it
in theaters, and it was garbage, but I loved
seeing my friends, or seeing bands I loved, like
seeing their music on the big screen with the
looney tunes. It was cool. I'm not gonna say
it didn't work, but it was objectively a terrible
movie. And I think this is the problem that we've
run into with Hollywood, is they've relied too
much on the intellectual property sometimes.
I think it is coming back around. I think Back
in Action was 20 years ago plus, and... This
new Looney Tunes movie is sounds like they went
back to the original formula of Looney Tunes
to make it so that's really hopeful. Let's talk
about another way that nostalgia is used in film
and television though. We've talked about the
marketing aspects of it. We've talked about how
it's kind of shifted from the intellectual property
from being more actor or more people focused
but I think the thing that's been lost in all
of this is like the retelling and then I'll go
back to talking about Something like ten things
I hate about you. Why not tell Shakespeare with
spider -man? I'd like I don't like I'm not a
screenplay writer, but like why wouldn't we?
start to do a complete retelling and a modernization
of it or Why wouldn't we do? modern reimaginings
of Even American classics and update it for the
modern world. I imagine some Faulkner or Steinbeck
being transplanted to a modern America And I
feel like the point of both of those authors
was just explore the human experience. Like I
said, I'm not a screenplay writer, but I can
imagine something like that would be done. And
not even call it East of Eden, or not even call
it of Mice and Men, or just have a complete reimagining
of these stories. Whether you're using intellectual
property to tell them or not, I don't think that
matters. I think what's happened is they've gotten
too focused on the intellectual property. while
the actor when they focused on the actors and
Enriching the actors career making them the kind
of tent poles of the studios those actors would
play a variety of stories and a variety of Settings
and even if Harrison Ford was playing kind of
the same person He still traveled across the
galaxy and went back in time And when I say went
back in time back to Nazi Germany and also Star
Wars was a long time ago I will remind you of
that as well, but my point is that The actors
at least had more flexibility to tell different
stories, to grow with their films and not always
be playing the same characters. Because no matter
who's playing Spider -Man, Spider -Man is Spider
-Man. And no matter who's playing the Hulk, he's
still Hulk. And there might be different elements
of the character in different imaginings or different
takes, but it's much more constricted than reimagining
a story with new characters altogether. And so
I think studios have become so focused on nourishing
their intellectual property and making us feel
nostalgic about their intellectual property that
it's just gotten to where we cannot have new
stories anymore. Or if we do have new stories,
they're re -imaginings of the same stories that
we've been telling. One way that studios have
tried to take nostalgic property and turn it
into something new is with this multiverse concept.
And this has happened. not just in Marvel and
I haven't been to a Marvel movie in years but
I think it's something that started in science
fiction and has moved to even being like a concept
in romantic comedies and horror films like we
had a couple of time traveling coming -of -age
films and We had that Aubrey Plaza movie called
My Old Ass and then we had that other one with
Marv from Home Alone with I think James versus
his future self. Both of them were honestly they
were both the same movie but one was like for
men and one was for women. The Aubrey Plaza one
she takes mushrooms and her future self comes
and basically shows up and shows her as a spirit
guide. James versus his future self much more
brash about it. And he's much more confrontational.
There's a bit of violence. It really did feel,
honestly, I watched those two movies pretty close
to each other. And it was a weird way of incorporating
nostalgia into these films because they tapped
into more the emotional nostalgia of just being
young. What it's like to pursue your dreams or
to focus on family or whatever it is that they
felt they had regretted doing more or less of.
Too much or too little of. And... Well, both
those two films were very similar. They, together,
were pretty unique, I thought. But they still
were very nostalgic, in a way. Shows like Stranger
Things are another good example of a new story
that uses a lot of nostalgic elements, but in
a different way. I think if you're talking about,
like, My Old Ass and James Vs. His Future Self,
I think that's the name of the movie. If you're
thinking about those two movies, it's more about
the emotional connection with your... past in
a nostalgic way, whereas I felt like Stranger
Things was trying to connect to somewhat of a
more material, not always, right? I don't just
mean the Eggo Waffles, but I do mean things like
playing Dungeons and Dragons with your friends
or riding your bike around the neighborhood unsupervised
or just a way of life, I guess, in less an emotional
way and more of a practical day -to -day this
is what life was like kind of way these are two
examples of the way nostalgia can be used effectively
without being gimmicky without relying on intellectual
property to drive the narrative and you can take
that kind of formula it's almost like what the
sandlot did a generation before right original
movie that relied on nostalgia heavily for the
parents i think there are ways that nostalgia
can be used effectively and there are ways like
I'm not saying we should never have a new Spider
-Man movie or a new Marvel but obviously we've
been inundated with this stuff for so long at
this point and the Hollywood numbers are showing
it right it's not just COVID it's not just home
theaters and streaming there haven't been movies
that people want to go see as like an event as
much as there used to be at all just because
even when the new Star Wars movies came out like
that was an event but now there's been so many
of them like it's lost its shine. I think about
the movie Fight Club when it came out and how
it was not a successful film really and I think
it was marketed poorly and I'm not even gonna
I watched that film recently again and in some
ways you could say that it led to the incel movement
but I think the other thing that you can say
about it is that it was a movie that Nobody had
seen anything like it. You took an original novel,
you took an original director, and they truly
made something unique. And over time, that movie
became a cult classic for a lot of people and
really launched Chuck Palahniuk's career as an
author even further. Not that he was successful
before then, but he's been riding that wave ever
since. They did make another movie off of one
of his books, but I don't think it did well at
all. And don't get me wrong, we still see movies
being made off of books, but a lot of the time
they're just your generic New York Times bestseller.
So I think there are effective ways to use nostalgia.
Sometimes, though, they're just relying on gimmicks,
right? They're just relying on the intellectual
property to carry it through. And sometimes they
make a movie that is literally just to create
an intellectual property. I think about something
like the Emoji movie. which is obviously everybody
knows that movie never should have been made.
And I've never seen it. It could be fantastic,
I don't know. But the point that I'm making is
that there's simply no real way to look at that
movie and take it seriously. There's anything
other than just a cash grab. I just wanted to
talk about a bunch of shit that I like or don't
like or observations about these industries.
I think what it comes down to is like dishonest
marketing when it comes to music, unoriginal
plots. and relying too much on intellectual properties
when it comes to movies and television. On the
other hand, that can actually be done really
effectively. And I'm going to... I've been talking
a lot about Harrison Ford and Indiana Jones.
They put out an Indiana Jones game last year.
And I'm gonna leave this episode off with this
because it's a great transition from the movies
to the games. I haven't seen the last two Indiana
Jones films. I'm sure they're fine. But I'm also...
very aware that they couldn't be anything as
good as the original. I'm a big fan of the original
three. And honestly, when I heard there was aliens
in Crystal Skull, I just didn't see it. But when
this game came out, they didn't ask Harrison
Ford to voice it. They got some guy to do basically
his best Harrison Ford impression. They used
Harrison Ford's likeness in making the character.
And instead of it being set when Indiana Jones
is 70, I believe it's set between the events
of like Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade.
And so you're back to Indiana fighting Nazis
in a world where there was less technology and
more the world that Indiana Jones was born in.
If you think about the beginning of a movie like
Jurassic Park, the paleontologist there, Alan
Grant's really mad about all this new technology
that's coming out. It's going to make it so they
can't, they're not even going to have to dig
anymore. He's upset about this. And I think Indiana
Jones in the real world would have a similar
sentiment. There's something about his swagger
that relies on using a bag of sand rather than
some precision device, or his whip rather than
a taser, or a map rather than a cell phone. And
I think when you take him out of that time and
place, and when I say time and place, pre -World
War II, Europe, America, whatever, something
gets lost because the character is a product
of that time and place. And so when they brought
the game back to that time period, that version
of Indiana Jones, that type of mission, that
type of story, where you're unlocking secrets
that you could Google the answer to now, there's
something really to be said about a new level
of nostalgia. So not only are you watching something
that makes you remember the old movies, but now
you get to be Indiana Jones and play around in
the world of the old movies and be the guy beating
up the Nazis and discovering the relics. So it
offers an experience that was never available,
but because of the technology and a really good
voice actor, they've been able to capture the
spirit of the original films in a different medium
and give the players an experience that you would
never be able to have just watching the films.
Hey, I recognize that these solo episodes are
a little bit rambly right now. I think they will
get more structured over time as I get used to
just talking to myself a little bit more. I appreciate
y 'all listening. The third part in our series
is gonna be about video games, retro gaming,
nostalgia in games and how it's used and honestly
I think that there's at least one gaming company
that's found a way around their old games being
terrible. sometimes. And they found a way to
make them interesting and enjoyable in the modern
age, even if they don't necessarily stand up
as games today. I'll talk more about that in
the next episode. This is Fedden. Thanks for
listening to overeducated and underemployed.
Make sure to check out fedden .net. Go on there
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do it there. Thanks. Have a good day and stay
tuned for the next episode of Nostalgia and Video
Games. And remember, if you want me to answer
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it over to FeddenXR at gmail .com.