WEBVTT 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:08.619 Welcome to the gilt trips podcast. I'm your 00:00:08.619 --> 00:00:12.039 host Kendra Lockhart as a goldsmith and gemologist 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:15.080 I'll be speaking 24 karat on all things jewelry 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:19.460 metals and gems Join me plus a few friends to 00:00:19.460 --> 00:00:22.559 demystify both materials and designs as your 00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:25.160 private jeweler. Let's tune in on these topics 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:32.840 and get golden So the first question that I want 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:35.380 to kick off this interview with is, did you have 00:00:35.380 --> 00:00:38.020 any real experiences that shaped this storyline? 00:00:38.979 --> 00:00:44.119 Yeah, definitely. On a large level, once I had 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:46.240 already started the story, I was lucky to be 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:50.240 able to spend some time in Italy with my husband. 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:54.700 We took some time off between jobs and... just 00:00:54.700 --> 00:00:57.799 visited all the places that I thought might be 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:00.039 interesting to the story as well as other places 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:02.899 that I hadn't known would be important to the 00:01:02.899 --> 00:01:05.620 story but ended up becoming so. I had been doing 00:01:05.620 --> 00:01:08.180 a ton of research in libraries and online in 00:01:08.180 --> 00:01:11.000 New York, see the artwork, see where the relics 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:13.819 were held, how far different churches were apart 00:01:13.819 --> 00:01:16.359 from each other. That all played a big part in 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:18.769 the story. COVID. I had been working on this 00:01:18.769 --> 00:01:21.430 story already for a number of years before 2020. 00:01:21.870 --> 00:01:24.730 And I was pondering how I would set the scene 00:01:24.730 --> 00:01:27.769 for the city of Florence that had been mostly 00:01:27.769 --> 00:01:30.010 emptied out by the plague except for the few 00:01:30.010 --> 00:01:32.730 people who were still there. And then all of 00:01:32.730 --> 00:01:34.930 a sudden I was living in Brooklyn during 2020 00:01:34.930 --> 00:01:37.629 in an office building in Midtown and somebody 00:01:37.629 --> 00:01:40.290 had been exposed. So I find myself like on the 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:43.269 last M train out of Dodge. And I stayed in New 00:01:43.269 --> 00:01:45.689 York for most of the pandemic. There were certain 00:01:45.689 --> 00:01:48.319 experiences. that I realized were really similar 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:50.359 between the Middle Ages and that we still had 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:52.540 today, things that hadn't changed, things like 00:01:52.540 --> 00:01:55.480 social distancing, you know, the best practice 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:58.120 advice from the government and from the medical 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:00.439 community kind of going back and forth, things 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:02.799 like this were shared. So I think I definitely 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.640 brought some of that experience into the pages. 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:08.099 And then lastly, this one is a little less direct, 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:11.620 but getting ghosted. So not to have too much 00:02:11.620 --> 00:02:13.819 of a spoiler in the story, but, you know, there's 00:02:13.819 --> 00:02:17.840 a moment where somebody is let... down by a romantic 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:20.800 interest and I think most of us who've dated 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:23.340 in the modern era, there's those people that 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:25.900 just you think everything's going well and then 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:27.580 all of a sudden you never hear from them again. 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:31.500 So I sort of super dramatized that for elements 00:02:31.500 --> 00:02:34.159 of the story. So I think that's something that 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.300 unfortunately too many of us can relate to today. 00:02:38.990 --> 00:02:41.889 Our next question is, are you willing to share 00:02:41.889 --> 00:02:44.610 some of the character creations? There were such 00:02:44.610 --> 00:02:47.889 charismatic protagonists in this story. Yeah, 00:02:48.110 --> 00:02:50.469 Genevra, the main protagonist, was definitely 00:02:50.469 --> 00:02:52.830 the first character that came to me and she was 00:02:52.830 --> 00:02:55.389 sort of born out of researching the setting. 00:02:55.569 --> 00:02:58.930 I was excited about the idea of this medieval 00:02:58.930 --> 00:03:01.770 gem lore that I had come across while researching 00:03:01.770 --> 00:03:04.770 a paper on the uses of coral in the Middle Ages. 00:03:04.889 --> 00:03:08.210 So I began imagining the sort of healers that 00:03:08.210 --> 00:03:10.590 might have done this type of work. I thought 00:03:10.590 --> 00:03:12.949 of Genevra and that also was how I came to the 00:03:12.949 --> 00:03:15.430 Black Plague as it seemed like a very dramatic 00:03:15.430 --> 00:03:18.360 moment for somebody. to test their healing skills. 00:03:18.539 --> 00:03:20.759 In the story, she's been marked by the evil eye. 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:24.080 So the evil eye really feeds off of jealousy 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.419 and anger and quick tempers and things like this, 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:30.939 you know, traditional folklore. So I knew that 00:03:30.939 --> 00:03:33.319 I wanted those to be personality traits that 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:37.080 she struggled with. And that was kind of the 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:39.099 initial thoughts for her. And then as you write 00:03:39.099 --> 00:03:41.479 and you explore and see what different scenarios 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:44.659 people are in, you think about how they might 00:03:44.659 --> 00:03:47.849 react. The person gets further developed from 00:03:47.849 --> 00:03:51.689 there. Her friend Lucia, I wanted sort of a foil 00:03:51.689 --> 00:03:54.550 to Genevra. So Genevra grows up very poor and 00:03:54.550 --> 00:03:57.710 having to know how to take care of herself in 00:03:57.710 --> 00:04:01.189 different situations. And Lucia, while of equal 00:04:01.189 --> 00:04:03.669 intelligence, has never, when Genevra meets her, 00:04:03.710 --> 00:04:06.810 has never really had an opportunity to stretch 00:04:06.810 --> 00:04:09.310 that intelligence and see what she's capable 00:04:09.310 --> 00:04:12.650 of. I enjoyed playing with their conversations 00:04:12.650 --> 00:04:15.889 and their different approaches to problem solving. 00:04:16.310 --> 00:04:19.870 Then the last character I can think of the Inquisitor. 00:04:20.170 --> 00:04:22.509 I just loved that, you know, Monty Python's, 00:04:22.529 --> 00:04:25.709 nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition and the 00:04:25.709 --> 00:04:28.509 Inquisitor is just always the most evil character. 00:04:28.629 --> 00:04:32.529 So I thought it would be fun to play with. How's 00:04:32.529 --> 00:04:34.670 the Inquisitor really feeling? Like, is he really 00:04:34.670 --> 00:04:37.970 just this blank slate of evil? This archetype 00:04:37.970 --> 00:04:40.649 is probably rightly portrayed in so many other 00:04:40.649 --> 00:04:42.850 tales. So I just wanted to depart from that a 00:04:42.850 --> 00:04:45.220 little bit. And then a lot of the other characters. 00:04:45.420 --> 00:04:47.839 My book is full of fun people, but we're inspired 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:50.439 by actual historical figures. Actually, and the 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:52.600 Inquisitor from Michele, I don't know about the 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:56.379 actual man, but the name is the real person who 00:04:56.379 --> 00:04:58.399 held that role during the Black Plague. Same 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.660 with the bishop, although he's a bit fictionalized. 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.220 Fra Simone Fidatti, who has kind of a minor role 00:05:03.220 --> 00:05:07.779 in the story. He is the patron of Santa Elisabetta 00:05:07.779 --> 00:05:11.019 della Convertite, the convent Ginevra stays at 00:05:11.019 --> 00:05:12.879 when she first comes to Florence. And he was 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:15.680 a real figure who really did struggle with what 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.879 the relationship between the natural sciences 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:21.939 and religion should be. That was based off of 00:05:21.939 --> 00:05:25.420 his writings and his biography. Those are how 00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:30.639 I came to have a few of those characters. That 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:32.680 sets us up perfectly for the next question is, 00:05:32.899 --> 00:05:36.339 what is your relationship or perspective to magic, 00:05:36.579 --> 00:05:39.360 the invisible life, or metaphysics? Yes, I like 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:42.860 this question. So it's not something that I would 00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:45.199 say I'm an active practitioner of or something 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:49.699 I rely on to make big decisions. So I'm not super 00:05:49.699 --> 00:05:52.899 into astrology or contemporary witchcraft or 00:05:52.899 --> 00:05:55.519 anything, though I do think it's all very fascinating. 00:05:55.620 --> 00:05:58.379 But I would say I'm fully receptive to the idea 00:05:58.379 --> 00:06:01.759 that there are realms and planes of the universe 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.699 that we know nothing about. When I'm asked this 00:06:04.699 --> 00:06:06.259 question, I kind of use the analogy, you know, 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:09.860 we didn't know that germs existed until very 00:06:09.860 --> 00:06:12.639 recently in human history, yet they're all over 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:15.240 us and inside of us and everywhere, every moment. 00:06:15.699 --> 00:06:18.980 What other discoveries that significant are waiting 00:06:18.980 --> 00:06:24.879 to be made? I remain with an open mind. Did you 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:27.819 have challenges in the story arc as far as their 00:06:27.819 --> 00:06:31.699 personal experience? Yeah, definitely. So I think 00:06:31.699 --> 00:06:35.600 coming at this as a historian and someone without 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:37.819 a creative writing background, but with an academic 00:06:37.819 --> 00:06:41.459 background, it was hard at first for me to let 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:44.360 myself depart from reality. So I spent a ton 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:49.970 of time researching. calendars and historic events 00:06:49.970 --> 00:06:53.470 and I didn't want anything that actually happened 00:06:53.470 --> 00:06:57.470 to be incorrect or out of sync and then eventually 00:06:57.470 --> 00:07:00.350 when I got further along I realized this is a 00:07:00.350 --> 00:07:03.230 novel and no one cares about that anyway and 00:07:03.230 --> 00:07:05.470 there were places where I was bending the plot 00:07:05.470 --> 00:07:08.230 to like fit a particular historical reality that 00:07:08.230 --> 00:07:11.569 was not central to the story so one example that 00:07:11.569 --> 00:07:13.350 I think I pointed out in my author's note there 00:07:13.350 --> 00:07:16.139 was a certain astrological prediction put out 00:07:16.139 --> 00:07:19.620 by scholars at the University of Paris that explained 00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:21.879 where the plague came from. The time that this 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:23.540 announcement it made, the time it would have 00:07:23.540 --> 00:07:26.259 taken to travel and be common knowledge in Italy 00:07:26.259 --> 00:07:29.060 didn't line up with my plot. And I was, why don't 00:07:29.060 --> 00:07:32.420 I just move up the date of this? And that's why 00:07:32.420 --> 00:07:34.720 author's notes are a novelist's best friend these 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:36.540 days. Cause you can explain yourself that you 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:39.600 were not making a mistake, but departing on purpose. 00:07:39.860 --> 00:07:42.100 So just, I think giving myself permission to 00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:45.759 use history as a jumping off point to to inspire 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.699 an exciting story and many, many of the details 00:07:48.699 --> 00:07:51.459 I have. I did try to create a portrait that was 00:07:51.459 --> 00:07:54.040 true to the time, but just knowing that it made 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.339 sense to depart for the story I could. The arc 00:07:57.339 --> 00:08:00.920 of the villain actually changed quite a bit. 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:04.360 Once I was working with my agent and editor, 00:08:04.540 --> 00:08:08.639 I originally had a much more subtle and complicated 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.319 crime that I still think is neat, but I got feedback 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:14.720 that basically it wasn't, just didn't have the 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.100 stakes and the tension to keep the story moving. 00:08:18.379 --> 00:08:21.000 And this is part, again, as somebody who's new 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.100 to the art of creative writing, there's a real 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:26.680 craft to having a story that effectively moves 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:29.519 forward. I was really grateful to get good feedback 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:33.080 from people on how to adjust my initial thoughts 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:35.720 to be better about that. That simple comment 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:38.360 meant three months of rewrites, so it's a big 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:43.799 task. What was your writing routine for this 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:47.889 project? I didn't really have one because for 00:08:47.889 --> 00:08:49.990 the majority of it, I was working full time, 00:08:50.149 --> 00:08:52.429 right? Which is how we know each other. And it 00:08:52.429 --> 00:08:55.990 was a really demanding job with a lot of screen 00:08:55.990 --> 00:08:57.809 time. At the end of the day, I just didn't have 00:08:57.809 --> 00:09:00.529 it in me to sit down. So at the keyboard. So 00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:02.830 there's many years of just kind of thinking about 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:05.190 stuff in my head, like almost to the point of 00:09:05.190 --> 00:09:07.970 having some scenes fully blocked out and kind 00:09:07.970 --> 00:09:10.049 of memorized. Cause I was thinking about them 00:09:10.049 --> 00:09:12.250 so much, but not having the bandwidth or the 00:09:12.250 --> 00:09:15.659 gumption to actually put it. on the page I mentioned 00:09:15.659 --> 00:09:18.220 earlier, there's that trip to Italy we took. 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.659 So that was, I took a step back from a job, which 00:09:21.659 --> 00:09:24.220 was the sort of job I thought was a dream job. 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:26.639 But the reality of the day -to -day is it just 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:28.379 didn't leave me much bandwidth for the rest of 00:09:28.379 --> 00:09:32.220 my life. So I started working freelance and doing, 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:34.399 you know, jewelry appraisals and things like 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:37.139 that, and working on contract. So once I had 00:09:37.139 --> 00:09:40.960 more time in my day, then my ideal routine is 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:43.220 I would wake up and I find that I'm most creative 00:09:43.220 --> 00:09:46.409 in the morning. whatever I kind of put my brain 00:09:46.409 --> 00:09:48.629 to first during the day is getting the best parts 00:09:48.629 --> 00:09:51.590 of me. So I would try to write for an hour or 00:09:51.590 --> 00:09:54.389 two in the morning, try and get stuff down and 00:09:54.389 --> 00:09:56.429 then you know you're online so you end up wasting 00:09:56.429 --> 00:09:59.250 as much time as possible on the internet until 00:09:59.250 --> 00:10:01.389 you've gone to the very farthest corners of the 00:10:01.389 --> 00:10:03.210 internet and there's nothing else you could possibly 00:10:03.210 --> 00:10:05.649 read and then you open up your Word document 00:10:05.649 --> 00:10:08.129 again and get back to writing. So I kind of just 00:10:08.129 --> 00:10:11.029 did that you know weekends, mornings as I was 00:10:11.029 --> 00:10:15.029 able to and I also had a writing group. I took 00:10:15.029 --> 00:10:18.669 one night school class on writing and made some 00:10:18.669 --> 00:10:20.289 friends in it and we formed our little group. 00:10:20.389 --> 00:10:22.990 So I would get these rough pages out, submit 00:10:22.990 --> 00:10:25.570 it to my group, get their feedback, and then 00:10:25.570 --> 00:10:29.610 go back and polish it based on the notes I had 00:10:29.610 --> 00:10:31.750 from them. Now I'm working on my second book 00:10:31.750 --> 00:10:34.289 and I'm trying to have like a proper routine, 00:10:34.350 --> 00:10:40.769 but it was kind of chaotic at first. Here's the 00:10:40.769 --> 00:10:43.570 question that has the juice to it. How did you 00:10:43.570 --> 00:10:46.750 challenge the age -old dismissal of female authority 00:10:46.750 --> 00:10:51.960 before writing this? I think that growing up, 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.100 my parents didn't really make me feel like I 00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:59.159 was limited because I was a girl, even though 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:02.320 maybe it was was happening and I just, you know, 00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:04.440 people are treating you some way and you don't 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:06.700 realize why they're treating you that way. And 00:11:06.700 --> 00:11:09.860 then I also, I just coincidentally, a lot of 00:11:09.860 --> 00:11:13.440 my bosses have been women that were also dealing 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:14.919 with this. So I had a lot of good role models 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.679 gets to somebody's detriment or it's their loss 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:21.019 if they're not going to to take advantage of 00:11:21.019 --> 00:11:23.000 what I'm capable of. You know, we would see, 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:24.980 I just work with people who just assumed I didn't 00:11:24.980 --> 00:11:27.100 know what I was talking about in the Diamond 00:11:27.100 --> 00:11:30.259 District when really I came with a lot of background 00:11:30.259 --> 00:11:33.039 from working in a gem lab, from studying art 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.700 history. And I would just let them think that 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:37.779 until there's an opportunity to prove them wrong. 00:11:37.820 --> 00:11:39.659 Because if someone underestimates you, that's 00:11:39.659 --> 00:11:41.220 when, you know, in the Diamond District, it's 00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:42.960 all about like wheeling and dealing. So that's 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:45.440 when they are a little bit more casual about 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.720 the information they might share around you or 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:50.350 things like. this I remember specifically one 00:11:50.350 --> 00:11:53.730 time I was taking a for a job I had I had to 00:11:53.730 --> 00:11:55.950 learn about watches right which is a whole separate 00:11:55.950 --> 00:11:58.409 discipline from jewelry but this particular role 00:11:58.409 --> 00:12:00.750 necessitated I understood watches a bit better 00:12:00.750 --> 00:12:04.190 so I signed up just an intro watch movement making 00:12:04.190 --> 00:12:06.990 class and I showed up and I was the only woman 00:12:06.990 --> 00:12:10.230 in the class another guy there asked like oh 00:12:10.230 --> 00:12:12.250 are you his wife because I'd happened to walk 00:12:12.250 --> 00:12:14.330 through the door at the same time as another 00:12:14.330 --> 00:12:18.289 guy no and and I proceeded to kick of their butts 00:12:18.289 --> 00:12:20.769 at putting together my watch movement because 00:12:20.769 --> 00:12:23.769 I had... bench jewelry skills. Anyway, so that 00:12:23.769 --> 00:12:27.490 was a very obvious and triumphant moment. These 00:12:27.490 --> 00:12:30.809 men challenging her because of her lack of inclusion 00:12:30.809 --> 00:12:33.990 societally or her exposure to certain academia 00:12:33.990 --> 00:12:38.389 or guild and yet was such the expert on what 00:12:38.389 --> 00:12:41.570 she was doing. I think that's why it became so 00:12:41.570 --> 00:12:44.350 emotional when I'm going through the resolutions. 00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:48.389 That was probably the most fun of the read. I 00:12:48.389 --> 00:12:51.809 definitely feel lucky. Like I think I came Not 00:12:51.809 --> 00:12:53.509 that things are great right now and of course 00:12:53.509 --> 00:12:56.029 right now everything's up in the air about which 00:12:56.029 --> 00:12:59.049 direction they'll go for women but I think at 00:12:59.049 --> 00:13:01.809 the moment I was coming up in my career I was 00:13:01.809 --> 00:13:05.710 standing on the shoulders of my grandmothers 00:13:05.710 --> 00:13:08.789 and mother and women who had done the real work 00:13:08.789 --> 00:13:12.409 so what I was facing was a lot more subtle and 00:13:12.409 --> 00:13:16.870 insidious and if I just chose not to accept that 00:13:16.870 --> 00:13:19.629 people were putting me in the box they couldn't 00:13:19.629 --> 00:13:23.399 really say anything. because you show up and 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:29.679 you do the work. Who is your ideal reader, especially 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:31.940 now that you're going into your second project? 00:13:32.659 --> 00:13:38.500 So I don't think my stories fit into a specific 00:13:38.500 --> 00:13:41.480 prescribed genre. They have elements of a lot 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:43.799 of different genres. And so I think my ideal 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.820 reader is somebody who's open to that and curious 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:49.990 and isn't going to... become frustrated with 00:13:49.990 --> 00:13:53.230 the story if it doesn't take them the direction 00:13:53.230 --> 00:13:56.629 or tell them the story in the manner that they 00:13:56.629 --> 00:13:59.929 expect to be told. Somebody who's ready for something 00:13:59.929 --> 00:14:02.950 new, I'm not trying to say I'm like a maverick. 00:14:03.129 --> 00:14:04.769 So let me put it this way, I've seen my book 00:14:04.769 --> 00:14:09.830 shelved in fantasy, in mystery, in science fiction. 00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:13.460 in just regular general fiction at different 00:14:13.460 --> 00:14:16.379 bookstores. I've seen people coming to it expecting 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:19.159 it to be a romance. So I think, yeah, just being 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.899 open. And then also somebody who likes dark humor. 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:25.120 A curiosity of history. I realized I think I 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.340 like taking time periods that we have been assigned 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:31.179 a certain tone in our own time and maybe giving 00:14:31.179 --> 00:14:35.360 them a little bit of a different tone than expected. 00:14:38.690 --> 00:14:41.490 If you don't have this creative writing training, 00:14:41.629 --> 00:14:45.049 but you are a seasoned storyteller, how did you 00:14:45.049 --> 00:14:48.659 manage how much you wanted to share? I mean, 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:52.220 I think I did overshare because the manuscript 00:14:52.220 --> 00:14:56.419 that I sent out to agents was like 130 ,000 words 00:14:56.419 --> 00:15:00.340 long, which is not unheard of for like epic fantasy, 00:15:00.419 --> 00:15:03.139 but pretty thick for the genres right again. 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:05.159 And that's where again, I needed those editors 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.100 to tell me like, wow, this is a fun adventure 00:15:07.100 --> 00:15:10.399 into like construction and 14th century Florence, 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.840 but it is more than is needed to set the scene. 00:15:12.970 --> 00:15:14.990 and you're just taking a reader on this ride. 00:15:15.350 --> 00:15:18.669 So I am endlessly inspired by these odd historical 00:15:18.669 --> 00:15:22.110 facts, and I have the impulse to get them all 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:25.090 on the page. We all need editors, so you really 00:15:25.090 --> 00:15:28.210 need help from readers at that point to say, 00:15:28.370 --> 00:15:30.889 like, this was interesting. You lost me a little 00:15:30.889 --> 00:15:34.309 bit here. I think also there's moments where 00:15:34.309 --> 00:15:37.470 you're really inspired to write a scene, but... 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:40.840 have trouble I think very visually like I can 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.000 almost imagine like if I was a I say this never 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.259 having made a film in my life but I imagine you 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:48.220 know if you're a director or cinematographer 00:15:48.220 --> 00:15:50.360 and you're setting up the scene I kind of see 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:53.440 it that way and then when I go to put it on the 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.700 paper I just can't translate the grandeur that's 00:15:56.700 --> 00:16:00.139 in my head into words right away so at that point 00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:02.279 I start with the blocking and just write the 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.940 skeleton of it of what happens she's here he's 00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:08.970 there they need to say something along these 00:16:08.970 --> 00:16:10.809 lines to each other, and you have to work on 00:16:10.809 --> 00:16:13.490 it for weeks and months to get what's in your 00:16:13.490 --> 00:16:16.830 head onto the page. In terms of writer's block, 00:16:16.889 --> 00:16:19.610 since I was laboring in obscurity, I would just 00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:22.789 take a long ass break, like weeks or months, 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:25.590 to think about it and do other stuff and not 00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:28.929 work on it until inspiration struck again or 00:16:28.929 --> 00:16:31.070 I missed working on it and I got back to it. 00:16:31.129 --> 00:16:33.529 I don't have that luxury now, so there's a lot 00:16:33.529 --> 00:16:37.350 more of just plowing ahead, writing. like a really 00:16:37.350 --> 00:16:40.450 crappy version of what you want the story to 00:16:40.450 --> 00:16:42.909 be. And then having faith that when I go back 00:16:42.909 --> 00:16:45.450 later, I'll be able to whip it up into something. 00:16:45.669 --> 00:16:48.789 Magic it. Oh, and exciting. Yes. Bring in the 00:16:48.789 --> 00:16:55.269 magic. What is the best lesson from your learning 00:16:55.269 --> 00:16:58.269 curve of getting published? From the getting 00:16:58.269 --> 00:17:02.690 published portion, I think. So to be traditionally 00:17:02.690 --> 00:17:05.339 published, meaning You know, you're with a big 00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:08.700 five publishing house and not an independent 00:17:08.700 --> 00:17:11.500 publisher or self published. There's a number 00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:14.880 of hurdles and you kind of think like, okay, 00:17:15.019 --> 00:17:17.740 once I've got over this big hurdle, I've made 00:17:17.740 --> 00:17:20.059 it. And then you realize, no, there's just another 00:17:20.059 --> 00:17:23.180 one. So, you know, getting an agent is a huge 00:17:23.180 --> 00:17:25.920 first step, but then you still have the agent 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:28.039 still has to sell the book. And then you say, 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.619 okay, I sold it. And then there's a mountain 00:17:30.619 --> 00:17:32.960 of edits and marketing. And the marketing was 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.200 probably the biggest curve or the biggest surprise 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.539 for me in terms of the amount of effort that 00:17:38.539 --> 00:17:40.960 is pretty much standard for authors these days, 00:17:41.019 --> 00:17:42.900 you know, unless you're already an established 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:45.279 huge hit. and even if you are sometimes, but 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.960 there are so many amazing books that are published 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:53.839 every day. And it is the amount of work that 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:56.559 goes into just making sure interested readers 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.660 are even aware that your book exists is huge. 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:02.420 So, you know, I was lucky being at a HarperCollins 00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:05.230 imprint. There's like a whole team of people 00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:08.329 that are professionals and experts in this. But 00:18:08.329 --> 00:18:10.690 you know, in addition to that, you have to do 00:18:10.690 --> 00:18:14.170 as much as you can to magnify their efforts. 00:18:14.890 --> 00:18:17.670 So, you know, reaching out to your personal network, 00:18:18.029 --> 00:18:20.250 getting into social media, of course, is a big 00:18:20.250 --> 00:18:23.009 thing. So I think just being prepared to participate 00:18:23.009 --> 00:18:25.650 in that. Some authors opt out of it, which I 00:18:25.650 --> 00:18:28.789 totally respect. It's not easy and it can feel 00:18:28.789 --> 00:18:31.069 kind of invasive, but if you can handle it, you 00:18:31.069 --> 00:18:33.369 see the benefits coming back in terms of awareness 00:18:33.369 --> 00:18:35.970 of your work. So that was probably for me, like 00:18:35.970 --> 00:18:38.089 the biggest facet of this that I was unaware 00:18:38.089 --> 00:18:43.980 of before getting into it. As we come to a close, 00:18:44.180 --> 00:18:46.339 the last question is for you to put on your mentor 00:18:46.339 --> 00:18:49.539 hat and share any words of wisdom for the next 00:18:49.539 --> 00:18:52.359 generation of historical fiction authors. Right 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:54.559 now, my mentor hat is an old ass beanie because 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:58.480 it is freezing in Brooklyn today. For historical 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.700 fiction authors specifically, I would say, you 00:19:01.700 --> 00:19:04.319 know, you have your time period you're passionate 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:08.440 about. So just spend as much time in that time 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.859 period as possible exploring the things that 00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:14.420 excite you, you know, whether that's reading 00:19:14.420 --> 00:19:16.519 and researching, or even like, I don't know, 00:19:16.579 --> 00:19:19.160 doing cosplay or whatever your jam is, get into 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:23.880 it, and then keep a note of any odd fact or experience 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:25.799 or something, anything you think is surprising 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:28.759 or interesting or funny. Eventually you'll have 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.559 enough of these and you'll realize that they 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:33.460 can, some of them, of course, not everything 00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:36.460 you find, they can go together and become an 00:19:36.460 --> 00:19:38.660 interesting story and an interesting plot that 00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:41.980 is specific to your place and time. so that your 00:19:41.980 --> 00:19:44.440 story could only have happened in that place 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:47.900 and in that time. And I think that's what separates 00:19:47.900 --> 00:19:51.799 great historical fiction from a fun story that 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:58.160 happens to be in whatever time period. Please 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.140 share with your loyal audience as well as future 00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:03.700 readers to be discovered. What's next for you? 00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:06.420 I'm working on another historical fiction now 00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:09.859 that is, it's called The Midnight Diamond. It's 00:20:09.859 --> 00:20:12.220 also forthcoming from Park Rope, probably sometime 00:20:12.220 --> 00:20:16.119 in 2026. And it follows a cursed diamond through 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:19.700 100 years of New York City history. So beginning 00:20:19.700 --> 00:20:24.000 in the Gilded Age and up through the contemporary 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.920 Diamond District. And it's inspired by the curse 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.400 of the Hope Diamond, the legend of the Hope Diamond 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:36.000 and it's a sister stone that may or may not exist 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.440 and may still be out there in the world somewhere. 00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:41.779 On behalf of my listeners and your readers, we 00:20:41.779 --> 00:20:44.440 wish you nothing but success for not just this 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:47.220 project, but your up and coming one. And I will 00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:49.839 drop links as far as where we can find out about 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.079 you and anything you're up to in the future. 00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:00.000 Thanks again. Thanks so much for having me. Thank 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.440 you for listening and learning with me. I would 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:04.640 love you to share this project with people finding 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.940 rare beauty in today's world and throughout our 00:21:06.940 --> 00:21:09.960 times. Until the next episode, keep your own 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:10.579 story sparkling.