The grass is always greener When your heart is black and blue
With a thousand fields you wander And search for something new
But there's a garden With thirsty little roses
Waiting right outside
With the magic of the morning In the lost of the day
You're thinking of your rivals And what they may or may not say
And branches that bloom down in the storm Can be gathered core apart
And burn up all the fire While it ground thaws in the sun
And we can pray for a late summer rain But it may not ever come
Gaze across the valley While your heart ain't been home
I ask you what you're missing You tell me you don't know but the desire
It's on the other side Can be felt for miles away
Ooh, ooh, ooh
We can burn up all the falls
Where the ground falls in the sun
We can pray for a late summer rain
But it may not ever come
It may not ever come
It may not ever, there's a garden
It's waiting right outside
We're here on the program, I'm Dom, this is Ryan. We're here to talk about how all of our things, so Ryan is a creative person as am I, and we're sort of in and out of jobs, how working people express themselves creatively and how creative people make a living for them.
How people make a living for themselves, and that's where all this comes together and today we're very excited we have our first guest in Mary Doherty who you just heard with a very great great song for a sort of chilly Monday evening song called Luster.
I'm getting a sort of like a, you know, I'll save my thoughts because I want to talk to Mary about it. We've got Mary coming up in a little bit. Ryan, Monday night. How was the weekend.
The weekend, the weekend flew by.
You know, you know, my head sort of I literally just ran here from parent teacher conferences, and they they have 10 minutes for each one. And it's just bam bam bam bam and it's like and you're running around the school and how many teachers, like 300, I don't know it.
350, maybe.
No, it seems like it seems like too many. Yeah, how many kids are in the class like 4000.
There's like 50,000 in a class.
It's a lot.
You know what the 10 minutes is tough and nobody is running on time. And so I would like to urge them to, you know, make it longer because you really start kind of getting into stuff.
And then you have to leave.
And then you got to leave. Yeah, if you want to make the next one.
It's like speed dating for parents and teachers, which is inherently awkward.
Perfect. It is. But weekend I you know what, let's talk about your weekend because I can't even remember what I did this weekend.
I went while we had a very busy weekend that was very child centric similar to your Monday evening.
Lots of kids in and out of the house. It went by in a flash. I feel like I just like all I did was like put straws in juice boxes.
Yeah, for like hours on end.
Yeah.
But I had it nice. It was a beautiful day here in the Northeast on yesterday Sunday. And so I had a fire pit going all day, which is a I don't have a fireplace in the house yet.
It's one of my great loves and life is to like sit by the fire.
And so I do a fire pit outside and that I had that going most of the day and that was like really not only helpful just in a temperature aspect but also kind of warms the heart as well as the body.
It's that time of year.
It is.
That's our next thing we want to have a little fire pit.
What are those called? It's like a clay pot with the chiminea chiminea.
That's what we want. I had a stainless steel chiminea at my last house. We called him Jebediah chiminea.
That was his name.
And I actually gifted it to my neighbor.
When we moved from the house and now he's got it in his yard. So, and I had actually bought, I had bought Jebediah used from a guy who had some sort of crazy rooftop in a condo in Harlem.
And I went and picked up a chiminea in Harlem, which is I'm sure that's something that just doesn't happen all the time.
That sounds awesome.
I love that's a song waiting to happen right there.
Yeah, rooftop chiminea and Harlem.
Jebediah yeah chiminea and Harlem.
Absolutely.
So we're we are here on the program.
This is our first evening attempt at this.
So it feels a little different, even though it gets dark at like two o'clock now.
So it doesn't like day and night.
Don't have any bearing.
We've been doing daytime shows.
Yeah, that's a different feel.
Yeah, and I want to talk about Mary Doherty's opening number with Mary.
We're very excited. So Mary is a singer songwriter and a performer who is also a working music therapist at a hospice and has been for the last seven years.
And so we're very interested to talk to Mary about the intersection of how she works creatively for a living.
A music therapist to me is like such a noble, wonderful profession to be able to support yourself by being by bringing joy to other to other people and teaching about music and, and,
and those wonderful sounds, especially in hospice, which, you know, I would say clearly maybe some folks don't have a lot to look forward to. Right.
That's not a not a very tense, tends to not be a terribly joyful environment, I would assume.
I can't imagine. Yeah.
But I will say, I mean, Mary's got such an amazing voice.
You know, when I listen when I, you know, and I've heard I've heard this song, by the way, before. And when I when I hear it, I feel very just makes me feel very warm, you know, so I'm sure she is doing a great service there.
I get a little bit of like an Amy Mann vibe.
Yeah.
And that's, that's very special to I think Amy Mann is a treasure.
Yeah.
I'm looking forward to talking to Mary.
We, I do want to hear one other though we have we have another song from Mary, I think Ryan will take a break from people listening to us droning on.
I want to listen to shadows in the room.
Sounds good by Mary Doherty and we're going to we're going to stick with you here on video those listening to the dulcet tones.
We will now be hearing Mary Doherty with shadows in the room.
I don't think I need to clear the air.
I don't think I need to clear my mind.
I'll be here while you way out there.
I guess the dust will settle in due time.
Do you think of me along the do's?
Do you feel my love under the sand?
I wonder if I mean the world to you.
The wonders of the world are in your hands.
I light a candle for you.
And wait with the shadows in the room.
And sure as my eyes are blue, I'll always be a part of you.
I light a candle for you.
And wait with the shadows in the room.
And sure as my eyes can see, you'll always be a part of me.
You'll always be a part of me.
Alright.
How great is that?
Mary, welcome.
Hey Mary, can you hear us?
Yes.
Is this thing on?
It is on.
What a great tune.
Such a fantastic image.
I can't hear you down.
Oh.
Hmm.
It looks like you're muted.
Figure this out.
There we go.
How's that?
Can you hear me now?
Yeah.
Great stuff.
I love, and I hate to keep comparing things,
but I like to sort of like say what I hear in music.
It brings me like a little bit like Flea Foxes,
sort of like the harmonies coming in
and the flute is sort of like a little medieval,
right?
You know, there's...
Yeah, I dusted off the flute for that one.
So that was you playing the flute?
Yeah, that was my first love was the flute,
and I played that until like fifth grade.
Maybe it was like sixth or seventh
when I got too cool for the flute.
And then I was like, no, I want guitar lessons,
like now.
And yeah, it's crazy how that stuff stays in your muscle memory,
you know?
I just had these little lines,
and I managed to squeak them out.
And is that you playing guitar on the tracks as well?
Yeah.
Great.
It's great, great tones and great performance.
We're here with Mary Doherty on the program.
I'm Dom Dorman, we're here with Ryan Havers.
Ryan, Mary is your get as it were.
So I think I have so many questions,
but I want to make sure that I don't dominate the conversation.
So I don't know, I'm going to kick it over to Ryan to kick us off,
but welcome, Mary.
All right.
Thanks.
Mary.
Yeah, well, you know,
we, Dom, we brought up what you do for a living music therapy,
music therapist.
And I know a little bit from what we've talked about in the past,
but can you just sort of give us like a rundown on,
on what your day to day is?
Cause it's just so fascinating.
Sure.
Well, before we, before I go into that,
I just want to give a little shout out to Jebediah.
I was really cracking up about that.
He's still going strong.
He's still warming,
warming hearts and bodies across town.
God bless.
Gotta love him.
That was such a charming little story.
Yeah.
So music therapy and hospice.
I mean, it's a, it's a very kind of specific,
specific, specific, specific, specific,
specific, specific, specific.
Kind of specific niche.
Field, you know, music therapy is a established healthcare
field.
It's been around since like, you know, around World War two.
And people,
music therapists work in a lot of different settings,
you know, hospitals, psych hospitals,
special ed schools.
I mean, they have private practices.
I mean, it's, you know, you name it.
But I was always interested in working in hospice.
When I was 14, my paternal grandmother got very sick
with cancer.
I was, you know, super close to her.
When you think of grandma, you think of like little
white haired lady with a cane.
But she was only like 61, 62.
And it was so devastating.
And she, it was very aggressive.
And I remember, it was like, just when I started getting
good at playing the guitar.
And I remember playing for her at the bedside.
And what I now realize is that she was in the transitional
stage.
So, you know, she was pretty minimally responsive.
I was like, wow, grandma's like,
she's like just sleeping a lot.
Like, I don't even know she's not really responding,
but like, I knew that it was meaningful.
So, yeah, I learned about music therapy later on
and got my hooks in and then the stars aligned
and I got a hospice job, which is where I always wanted
to work.
So that's not really what you asked.
My background, I mean,
yeah, I mean, is it my day to day, Rai?
Well, yeah, I mean, first of all,
it sounds like you were primed for this.
I mean, based on your experience with your grandmother,
you know, like those two things just sort of met
very naturally.
But yeah, I was sort of, I'm just sort of curious
about what, you know, what your typical day is.
Yeah, I mean, that's the one thing it's like,
every day is different, which is one thing I really love.
I mean, I have a caseload, you know, it's ever changing
because, you know, people die and then people come on
the program and it's wild.
Like, yes, I mean, I get up, I have my scheduled visits
every day is different, like I said.
So it's like, is it some people that's so funny
because it's very, it's such an intimate thing, right?
It's like you learn about people's personalities
and the family dynamics and the caregivers.
And so some people like, oh, I need to, you know,
we need to have two 30 every Tuesday.
That's gonna be, you know, very scheduled
and then other people are like,
can you just call me the morning of?
Cause I don't know how I'm gonna be feeling.
I don't know, you know, so yeah, it's,
and we drive a lot.
So I'm in my car, I go to houses.
Another element that's like so intimate,
you're like going into people's homes.
You're essentially, you're playing music for them though.
Yes, yeah, I play guitar and sing and play recorded music
when necessary, you know, if I feel like it's important.
And yeah, houses, nursing homes and hospitals.
Yeah.
And we see people of all different walks of life.
Yeah, it must be such a, I mean, it's so intimate, you know?
Yeah.
Do you find that the experience of being around
so much of the sort of final stages of life
is that do you think because of your experience
with your grandmother, is it somehow cathartic for you
and helpful for you or do you struggle sometimes
with the sort of darkness of everything that you're doing?
Because you're, I mean, it's like,
you're not doing music therapy and like,
you know, newborn wards.
Like you're doing, these are all people
at the end of their life experience.
And how does that impact you both as,
just as a person, first of all,
but then as an artist?
Gosh, there's so many layers.
It's like, I mean, it really, it really depends.
It really depends.
I mean, I will say there is,
people still need to feel joy.
There's so much joy to be had.
And people are looking to find meaning in their lives.
And, you know, music is such an amazing way to do that.
But then sometimes you go in and they're like,
just play for me because I'm feeling nauseous
and I need a distraction.
Or I'd, you know, I like to think of it more
as like refocusing rather than like,
you know, this sort of rigid,
just using music as this like tool.
But, yeah.
It's amazing.
I'm sorry, Mary.
I was just gonna say, I mean, you're using music.
I mean, we all know the effect that music has on a person,
but you're using it in a like a clinical or a medical,
not clinical, not clinical.
I don't wanna say that, but like you're using it.
It is.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what, I mean, yeah.
It's with a clinical lens when you're,
when there's a, you know, you have your clinical hat on
and you're looking for the, where the,
where the clinical need is, you know, whether it's
pain management or symptom management
or, you know, more of psychosocial stuff.
Like, you know, this person is so isolated
and, you know, they're really depressed.
I mean, yeah, like sometimes it is very dark,
but sometimes it's so joyful.
So it's like, it can be so uplifting.
Yeah, I'm just, I'm trying to,
I mean, dementia, I think in the last 10 years or so,
there's been a lot of buzz.
It was like, you know, music and dementia.
And it's, you know, it's very true.
It's like, there's nothing like, you know, you go in
and there's a person with like mild, moderate dementia.
They're starting to lose, you know, language,
word retrieval is getting really hard.
You know, connecting with people is getting really hard.
And you go in and you, and you play a song
that they know all the words to.
And the way you guys know how it is,
like you, a song from your youth or whatever,
and the words just kind of like tumble out of your mouth.
And there's this, this look of like surprise
and bewilderment and it's, it can be like very empowering
when you feel like all you're doing is losing things.
You know, it's like, oh, I knew all the words to that.
What?
No, it's a, it's a crazy connection point.
And it's also, it's, I mean, it's visceral.
It's, you know, it's like a sense of smell
or a taste of something, you know, from your past
that can snap you back into some sort of, you know,
lucidity or consciousness that may not otherwise be attainable.
I think that's fascinating.
I mean, and I think also, you know,
knowing that you write and perform
and record original music,
how do you feel that your profession, you know,
you're in a very small category of musicians
who are sort of earning a living by being a musician, right?
So you're a therapist and I want to acknowledge that,
but it's a specific type of therapy
that requires musical talent.
I mean, I'm sure somewhere, like, you know,
somewhere is the world's worst music therapist
who's like probably really good at therapy,
but it's just not a very good, you know,
writer or player or whatever it is.
But knowing that you have a level of talent,
how, is there a push and pull in your every day?
You know, Ryan referenced earlier on the day to day,
is there a push and pull of like, gosh, I really,
like I wish I didn't, it seems like you really love your work.
So I don't want to sort of telegraph your answer,
but is there a push and pull of like,
would you rather be doing, you know,
would you rather be touring regionally
and making the same amount of money?
Or is it that your, the music therapy is, you know,
a love of yours and your writing and performing
is something you do for yourself or on the side?
Or how would you describe that?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I definitely feel like hospice is,
I mean, it's my dream job.
I feel like I have said before in the past,
like I feel like I would not be good at anything else,
which I know is not, is not true.
I mean, can we curse on this?
Are we keeping it?
Okay, I mean, I would be the world's shittiest waitress.
I would never be an accountant.
I would, I mean, you know, nurse,
I would just be queasy and vomiting all the time.
It, no.
Ryan and I have been pretty shitty at jobs too.
So it happens.
Oh yeah.
It happens.
Yeah, I'm just, I just feel very lucky.
I do, I feel very lucky.
I've always, and I don't mean this in a weird or morbid way,
but I've always been like kind of not fascinated by death,
but like, I don't know a weird connection to it.
Like, I don't know.
When I was little, my mom said,
I was like, I would ask her questions all the time
about what, like what it means to die.
And it's, I was just like,
someone, someone make it make sense.
I really think that, you know,
if you think about everybody who's died ever,
yeah, which is most people,
it's more people that we can possibly fathom.
There had like, if there was a way for people who have died
to connect meaningfully with people who are alive,
I think it would be a lot more common.
Like everybody would be doing it
because there's so many dead people.
So I do think there's, I feel like there is a,
there's a pretty, there's a pretty hard wall
between the dead and the living, just my personal thought.
And Ryan and I were talking actually in our last program,
by the way, as a reminder, we're here talking
with Mary Doherty, who is a singer, songwriter
and performer and a music therapist here on our program
where we talk about people like Mary
and we talk with people like Mary.
And we were talking, we got into talking about death
and, and you know, fearing death, not fearing death
and the unknown and I think it's the great unknown.
That, that's what fascinates me about death is that
it's just like nobody, there's no book, you know,
like in Beetlejuice, like they have like the handbook
for the recently deceased.
Like there's no, that's never leaked out, you know?
That's like, we don't get a look at that.
And I think it's, it's a special person who can be around
that consistently and, you know, see, also, you know,
sort of the transference of being in a therapeutic
relationship with somebody.
Yeah.
And getting into your inner relationship with them, right?
I mean, I see a therapist and there, there have been times
where I have been, you know, sort of curt with him
or mistreated him in some way.
And it's, it's a reminder that like, listen, we're in like,
this is like a thing.
This is a bonafide relationship.
And so do you, do you find with the ideas of transference
and being in a relationship of some of these patients
for what is probably a shorter amount of time?
I mean, I've been seeing my therapist way too long.
I don't even want to talk about how long it's been
because it's sort of embarrassing, but like, I'm on my third.
I, well, I don't know what's better, like to keep sort of
switching or like to just be like every, you know,
but do you, is there a difficulty there?
With churn as far as like people dying?
Yeah, yes.
For me, I mean, I, yeah, sometimes it, it, it gets just really heavy.
And it feels like, feels strange to be, you know,
creating this relationship with someone and almost, you know,
I don't want to say friendship because it's not, but, but it,
you know, you, when you're with someone on, on this journey,
it feels as very profound at times.
And so it's like you're developing this relationship
with someone just to say goodbye to them forever.
And yeah, I like, there was a period over,
over the summer, I think.
So I usually like being present during the moment of death happens,
you know, I've been doing this seven years and, and I would say
it would, it would happen like, you know, a few times a year,
maybe two or three times a year and was always, you know,
profoundly heartbreaking, beautiful, mind blowing, you know,
so many emotions.
And then there was a period of, I think two weeks where I was
present and witnessed four patient deaths when I was playing.
And, and that's like while you were playing.
Yeah.
Jesus.
Yeah.
And it was, but I will,
I'm sorry, I don't mean to, I'm not laughing.
It's just like so.
It's heavy to me.
It's, it's insane.
Yeah.
I mean, and I was just like, you know, I was like, oh my God,
is it, it's happening again?
Like this, like when I play my guitar, people die.
Yeah.
It felt like I was like, whoa, is there something in my energy
field that's like causing them to, to shift into the, the next,
but they're waiting, right?
They're waiting, maybe they're waiting to hear those sounds and
that's like, that's their walk-on.
Maybe they feel like they can let go.
And that's the thing is like, you know, like I said,
I was always trying to like, like make it make sense.
Well, it doesn't make sense.
And they were, and you know, I'd word.
Well, we'll never know, but I would, you know, I was, um,
it was an honor that they,
and that's another thing that we always,
that swims around in my head is like, do people,
are they able to choose the exact moment that they pass on?
So, you know, is there, is there any like life force and willpower
behind that?
So it's like, you know, if they did choose to, you know,
peace out in that moment, it was like such an honor for me to do
that.
That's no easy.
Yeah.
And you think about like people who like,
who spouse dies and then they die like a week later.
Yeah.
You know, it's just sort of like, you're like, okay, like, um,
I don't need to be here anymore.
I was going to say the honorable part.
That's what I was, I was, I wanted to say earlier,
but I couldn't think of the word.
Um, like I remember when, so the closest sort of person to me in
my life that passed away was my, my father and he was in hospice
and he, you know, his family was around him and I was looking at
him when literally his, his chest stopped, you know, he,
his heart stopped, you know,
and you know, it's all the feels right.
Um, but the one thing that I didn't realize until it happened was
because it's such an intimate experience.
It's what an honor it is to be a part of that experience.
And it's, it's seen, it sound almost sounds weird to say that,
but it was just something that I had never thought of it that way
before.
No, I mean, I don't think it's weird.
I mean, every, every hospice person would say that it's,
it's just an honor to, you know, help people in that,
in that chapter.
I mean, it's, it's wild.
You do good work, Mary.
Oh, well, thanks.
I mean, I, I'm, I'm lucky, you know, um, but I, like, I would
say that the, yeah, I was tanked.
I was tanked after that, like two week period.
Pull out of death for anybody.
Oh man.
And, and, you know, a couple families, you know, that when,
when they realized that it was, there was a lot, you know, a
lot of emotion.
So it's like holding the space.
For them and, um, yeah, it was, it was wild, but, um, it's very,
it's, it's very rewarding.
It's, um, at times like just surreal.
Um, and then at times, you know, some days it's like, wow, you
know, I'll say that, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm
just playing, I'm helping people relax today and everyone's,
it must be a sleepy day.
Um, for some days.
I love sleeping.
Oh my God.
It's, it is like death.
It's, uh, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot of
things that you can do.
You know, you can do it.
You can do it.
Um, there's a, there's a line in moonstruck, um, Vincent
gardenia, he says, I, I, um, I don't want to sleep.
It's too much like death, um, but I, I want to, I want to take a
break here because I think we've got a good segue.
Um, Mary Doherty is here with a, with Ryan and I on the program
where we talk about, um, creative people working and working
working people, being creative. And we're going to take a little bit of a break so we
can have a breather here. But here's a, this is, this makes me really happy. So one of
my favorite bands is from Canada. They're called the New Pornographers. And they recently
did a sort of secondary version of one of their newer songs called Firework in the Falling
Snow. And they have Amy Mann as a guest performer on the song. And I thought, because one of
my first ideas in listening to Mary Doherty was, was Amy Mann, I thought this would be
a nice break for us to take just for a moment. And we're going to get a drink of water and
we're going to come back with Mary Doherty. We're going to talk about Mary's music a little
bit. So stick around.
Wonderful tip. The artists you love when they sort of seem like they're living in parallel
lives, but then they get together and do something and you feel like it's kind of like just for
you where it's like, Hey, if Amy Mann sang with new photographers, like that would make
you really happy. It's like the thing you didn't know you wanted until you saw it.
Like when Amy Mann sang with Rush.
Did that really happen?
Did it really?
Yeah.
That's fascinating. Wow.
No, not.
I had no idea.
Maybe I'm off with this one.
I don't know.
Where did that? How did that happen? That was like late 80s, early 90s, a song called
Time Stand Still.
Really?
Yeah.
I had no idea. That's fascinating.
Yeah.
Wow.
They're all Canadians. So I think that's how that happened.
That sounded very, very dismissive and marginalizing.
No, I'm not.
They're all the same label or they're all Canadian. They all know each other.
I don't mean that.
I know. No, there's a handful of fantastic Canadian musicians and I'm sure they all know
each other.
I love that.
And Amy Mann.
We're here with Mary Doherty on the program. It's Dom and Ryan.
And we're talking, we're talking about death and the new pornographers and Amy Mann and
Mary.
So let's talk about your music. We've talked about your career a little bit. Let's talk
about your music. Is something, is this a crossover? Like, do you, are there songs that
you write because of your experiences you've had professionally? And are there songs that
maybe you perform professionally that you've written outside of your professional experience?
It's funny you ask that. Like, after my, you know, my little, where I felt like the angel
of death, you know, that, that two week period, you know, I shared it with, with a friend
who's an artist. And, and he was like, why don't you like write a song about it?
And I'm like, yeah, you're right. I really should. So it's, it's kind of funny. Yeah,
I haven't like written any songs specifically about, about my work. I have one song that's
sort of in the early stages that's, I mean, I contemplate death all the time. So it's,
you know, I have a song about, maybe it's kind of like reincarnation is, you know, it's,
it's you know, kind of like possible experiences that you made that you and where people uh
could look at it just in introduction because it gives you a period feel.
willingness to to be open to it, you know, um,
Ryan, do you believe in reincarnation?
Well, um, I, in a way, yes.
I believe that, um, I believe that it was almost science or
nature based, you know, like our, our body goes back into the
earth or whatever gets, you know, and then it gets burned up,
burned up, you know, um, you know, I kind of think of like
the spirit leaving the body as like any sort of electrical
pulse in your body or, you know, just dissipating into the,
into the, you know, the great whatever, you know, and you
become sort of like part of the fabric of the universe again,
you know, I don't know.
Is there like a, uh, an endpoint of personification after
that, or is it just you become part of like the ether?
I think, I think of it more like you become part of the
ether, you know, um, do you, um, Mary, do you think that in
all of your experience in dealing with folks, do people
become like toward the end, do people become sort of like more
religious?
I mean, like my, my answer to, to so many things is it
depends.
It depends.
Um, some people do.
Some people are scared shitless.
Yeah.
Some people are totally at peace.
Those, well, those are the people who are scared of the
people who did some fucking shit during their lives and
they're like, uh-huh.
It's now the end of the year.
Maybe, maybe some or, or they're like very Catholic.
I know you can say that I was raised Catholic or as George
Carlin said, I was raised Catholic until I reached the
age of reason.
Um, but there's a lot of fire and brimstone.
It's scary.
Yeah.
But, you know, then there's some people, they, they just, they
love that blessed mother and, you know, they feel safe and
held and, um, I guess, in that state, whatever works, right?
It's like, yeah, yeah.
And I'm sorry, we went, we went back down like the death.
Oh, the death.
But hey, I do want to talk about your music.
And also I know we're, we're sort of nearing the end of our
time here, but, uh, I definitely, Ryan, I definitely want to
have Mary back because we need to hear more of her music.
Yeah.
But I do like, do you have, so what, what's your, what's your
performing experience like?
Are you, are you out and about?
Are you like, are you playing out performing?
No, not much recently.
Um, you know, it's definitely COVID.
I know it's like the thing for a lot of people.
I, you know, I was, um, I had like, uh, a little band going,
you know, we were looking to, to start getting out and playing.
And, um, I think our last rehearsal was, was February of 2020.
And, um, everybody got sick and scared.
Everything dissolved.
Yeah.
Um, so yeah.
And for a while I was, you know, I love singing backup.
It's so much fun.
I love singing harmony.
It's like one of my favorite things to do.
I was, um, singing backup in my friend's band and actually like
playing a little flute here and there.
Um, but, um, sometimes the side man, like the side man experience.
Sorry for the man side person.
That's not a word.
Side, side lady.
No, I get it.
The, the side musician thing is like, it's so, um, fulfilling and relieving.
Ryan, you know, as running, you've run your own band and you've also
been part of something that you're not in charge of.
That's how I would sort of differentiate the side thing.
And like there's something that can be so gratifying of like,
wait, I could, I could just show up and like play my parts and I don't
have to like, I don't have to deal with the door.
I don't have to deal with the posters.
I don't have to deal with like all that stuff.
I mean, it's very, I would love to be, if I could make a living being a
side man, like tell me what to play and I'll play it.
That's, that's good to me.
Um, yeah.
Would that be enough for you, Ryan?
Um, no, I don't think so.
I have to, I have to create, you know, I have to do something, but that's
actually what I wanted to ask Mary.
Um, so, you know, you're, you're playing music at work.
Do you have, how do you transition?
Like, do you have a lot in the reserves?
Is there enough in the tank after work?
It depends.
Um, I mean, I am very much like, I don't know.
I, my creativity comes in spurts and I have to just accept that.
Um, and so like, like right now, um, I'm having a lot of creative,
flow, um, so it's not, it hasn't been hard to turn it.
Like I said, we spend a lot of time in the car.
So what I love to do is, you know, I go in and do my visit.
And then I, when driving around, I'll, you know, I'll try and use my
time to think of new lines for a song or new melodies or if, you know,
I'm working on something, um, you know, I think of a little line.
I'll do the little audio recordings, things I don't forget it.
And then, um, and then, yeah, this is like this exciting thing.
When I get home, I can, I can do my own thing.
Like this exciting thing when I get home, I can, I can release it.
Um, who's said we spend a lot of time in the car.
Oh, just hospice music therapists.
You all travel together.
I mean, no, just like, oh, like, we as, as, as a people.
Yes.
Collectively.
I'm sorry.
I was just picturing you guys like all piling in a mini van.
Like, and just driving around.
That's what I was like a shuttle music shuttle service.
Right, right.
I, I, I relate to that.
It's, it's one of the things that I, um, I miss, you know, most of the lyrics
that I've written in my life, I've written in the car because I would have
demos of music that I would put on, just put it on repeat.
And there's a safety.
The car is so safe because nobody can hear you ever.
Yeah.
There's no chance of anybody hearing what you're doing ever.
And maybe it's like a mental thing I need to get over as a performer and as a
writer to say, you know, if I'm in my home studio here, like, you know, if,
like, if somebody else hears me or a pedestrian outside hears me with the
windows open, then that's not, there's nothing wrong with that.
But there's always something like a little something where it's like, well,
it's not terribly private.
Like I've done my best work when I know that like everything's sealed up and
there's no chance of anybody.
You're not vulnerable.
I don't have that.
I have, there's a, there's the street is right there.
And I have made some of the craziest, like, I think maybe if somebody was walking
by, they'd think that like someone's being murdered.
Yeah.
You have that.
That's definitely a vibe.
Yeah.
I love that.
I'll just go for it.
I love that for you.
Let me, let me ask this for both of you actually, we'll go Mary and then down.
And I, I mean, I think you sort of answered it already, Mary, but love that for you.
Let's go on you.
I do.
And you know what?
It's inspiring to be honest.
It's like, you're right.
Fuck it.
I go, where do I go home?
Yeah.
So.
Two trains of thought, right?
You, you, you write when it's hidden or daily practice, whether it's
hitting or not.
Oh, God.
Um, I, in the past, it's only when it's hidden, but I am starting to get into the
ladder, I want to make it a daily thing.
Um, you know, it's like, just do it, just do it, get it, get out.
So, you know, they're, it's like a, you know, the faucet, you got to keep it,
keep it on just a little bit.
Don't turn it all the way off.
Speaking of faucet, is that, is that, is that you, Mary?
Do you have, do you have a leaky faucet in the background?
Oh, you know what it is?
It's my cat.
Um, it's my cat water fountain thing.
Oh, is that annoying?
Sorry.
No, no, I just heard it.
As you said, faucet, I heard like drip, drip, drip.
And I was like, wow, that's good.
There's a TV on the other side of this wall that was going in the beginning.
And then you could hear people doing dishes.
Yeah.
My son was banging on the door for a little bit.
So yeah, it's either a faucet or, or a cat water fountain.
Yes.
My, my, my, is my metaphor.
Uh, I, I'm the same.
I am, I am, I hit when it's hitting and I tend to, um, go dark when it's not.
But I, I do better when I am in a, a zone of regular practice, regular output.
Um, the quality is higher.
Yeah.
So like, um, even though like the output is higher, but like it enables me to choose
better quality items out of what I'm putting out rather than like, Oh, I just
had a productive weekend.
I'm going to use all of it, even though like half of it's not great.
Um, yeah.
And I think that's, it's a better zone to be in, right?
Like you're, you're looser and you're putting stuff out, then you get to choose,
you know, week over week, month over month, like you get to choose to move forward
with certain things and abandon other things other than having to use everything
you do because your output is so low.
That's, that's, that's how I feel.
Yeah.
It's like, I've gotten to a point now.
I mean, I just like live in perpetual FOMO and that's like kind of what I'm
kind of what, what Luster is about a little bit.
Yeah.
Talk about that song actually.
Oh, what Luster?
Yeah.
I mean, it's, it's, it's about me living in, you know, the first line is the grass
is always greener.
Um, when your heart's black and blue, blah, blah, blah.
So it's, it's trying to look at that.
It's a great line, by the way.
Oh, thanks.
Yeah.
Just like that constant feeling of being unsatisfied.
Um, and telling myself to, to sit the fuck down.
Um, I'm trying to think of the other lines of the song, but, um, but no, just as
far as like, just my, you know, whether it's a daily practice or just hit when
it's hitting, I'm realizing like, Oh, I'm, there's all of this, this creative
energy that I'm missing out on if I'm not doing anything.
Um, yeah, it's when, when I have those thoughts, it's, it's, it makes me so sad.
Yeah.
But it's also a huge motivator, right?
Because when you realize like, Hey, like, you know, I took a nap yesterday and I
could have actually written like four songs in two hours and I didn't.
Um, that's, that's a little bit of a motivator.
Yeah.
But then again, sometimes you really need those naps.
I love, I love that.
Oh my God.
Don't even get me started.
Well, you have a cat.
So you under, obviously understand that.
Oh God.
I've, well, I have three cats, but that's for another show.
That is, that's, well, it's another podcast, actually.
Right.
The cat, the cat cast.
Right.
I don't like cats.
So like, I mean, I like you.
Well, I will.
So let's, let's just leave it.
Let's just leave it.
I cast and thank you very much.
Um, Ryan, do you, um, we're, I, we're, we're a little bit out of time.
We have one segment left to go.
Is there anything else you want to cover with Mary before we get into easy, uneasy?
Oh, yes.
Um, well, yeah, I, I mean, I, I would like to have Mary on again.
Um, and, and we could maybe dive deeper into, I mean, I wanted to ask you about your process.
Um, but I think that's, we could, we could really, you know what?
Tell me about your process.
Like what?
And it depends.
I know it depends.
Right.
But I think that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,
That's when your album is too much to cover for,
It feels really re Kurt Award.
Right.
In a short, Okay.
All right.
Well, I've had a hard time doing this.
You know, and you've only been a student in college and, uh, is that what you mean,
lyrics would come out that, like, oh, that doesn't sound dumb.
Okay.
But now I feel like there's much more intention.
It's like, oh, I don't know.
I guess with the last few songs I've written, there's definitely more of a focus.
Like with Luster, I was exploring that feeling of just sort of never being satisfied.
And what else?
Oh, Shadows in the Room.
I mean, that I was mad at a family member.
So it's actually, even though it sounds like it, it's not a breakup song.
And it's honestly about grief and loss.
And it's, you know, grief and loss comes in so many forms.
I like the image of that song, but the beach passages are very cool.
Yeah.
Yeah, thanks.
Thank you.
So yeah, I feel like I'm sort of shifting a little bit in my process these days in that
there's more, there's more intentionality, I guess, and like what the song is about.
You strike me as, I'm going to guess it.
Your lyrics sound like they flow out.
Like, is it easy for you to write lyrics?
Because that's the hardest thing for me.
Oh my God, me too.
And we've talked about this.
I mean, I will pull my hair out with lyrics.
And that's the fear, you know, the fear is like, Oh my God, I don't want this to sound
dumb.
It's my biggest fear is like, will it sound dumb?
Is it going to sound dumb?
Everyone's going to know I'm an idiot once and for all.
Everyone's going to know I'm dumb.
I think of it like when I'm listening to a band that I love and I'm listening to lyrics
that I love, and I will think of it and be like, Oh, I would never like that would never
clear my QC.
Right.
And what they just said is great.
But I'd be like, that's stupid.
Like, right, right.
Yeah.
I think that how horrible is that?
Like what a terrible filter that is to have in your mind.
I know, I know.
And now, right, we got to write a song now about it should be called everybody's going
to think I'm dumb.
Yeah.
Or another one.
The other one has to be cats, except for dumb.
But yeah, Dom hates cats.
Everyone loves cats except for dumb.
Right.
I do want to say so when when I'm looking for Mary Doherty here in New York, I Google
Mary Doherty and I come up with SoundCloud.com slash Mary dash Doherty dash six.
If you want to listen to Mary's music, I'm hope I'm promoting the right thing.
Well, yes, it's fine.
Yes, friend.
Yes, it's fine.
I will say, I will say, you know, some of those songs are old and it's not the best recording
quality.
And you know, like Luster and and shout is in the room are not on there.
I do see one LinkedIn to Mary Doherty, Master of Science, Music Therapist.
Yeah.
Wow.
Well, that I mean, it's like, you know, yeah.
But I'm working on getting a band camp page going with a much more serious and professional
approach because I I I I miss playing and I the last few years that, you know, I want
to honor my creativity and I think everybody should and that's my goal is to I love that
just honor, honor myself a little bit more.
And that it's helpful for me because I sometimes in very blocked and second guessing myself.
But we're here on the program with Ryan Havers.
I'm Dom Dorman, we're here with Mary Doherty, musician, performer, singer, songwriter, music
therapist and what a great chat.
We definitely have to have you back because there are so many different things I needed
and wanted to ask you.
And we just didn't get to I mean, how do you do it in an hour?
But also I would say that if and when you're playing and performing, nothing would make
me happier than to I would love to play with you or for you or accompany you in any manner.
I think your music is is lovely and fantastic.
And you seem like a very, very, very nice person.
Well thank you that it was my honor and privilege.
And I want to hear you some of your music, Dom.
Oh, that old thing.
Sure.
Yeah.
I've been dormant for I've been on hiatus for too long of a time.
But enough about me.
I am Dom Dorman.
That's the only thing I'll say about me.
And then there's Ryan Havers here.
We are on the program.
We've had Mary Doherty here.
We've had such a fantastic and enlightening time.
And just thank you from the universe to you, Mary, for the work that you do, which I'm
sure has so many amazing sort of hidden challenges and the things that you do for people who
are in a rough time.
So we appreciate that of you for them.
And before you go with our final segment here is called Easy Uneasy.
And this is when Ryan will ask you an easy question.
And then I will ask you a question that will make you uneasy.
Oh, Lord.
All right.
I forgot about the segment.
So we're going to take it easy on Mary as sweet as pie.
No, it's Thanksgiving week.
You know, we're not we're not here.
There's no gotchas here.
We're just going to have a little fun.
Ryan and I like to have fun.
And throw it at me.
All right.
Okay.
Do you think a sandwich tastes better when someone else makes it?
Oh, my God.
That's a hard question.
Um, well, you haven't heard the other question yet.
Well, and it's again, it fucking depends on who makes it.
What a great answer.
That is a great answer.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a great answer.
It depends on who makes it.
Like my mom used to do, she would put like peanut butter on both sides of the bread.
And that, oh, okay.
Maybe I thought this was a.
I've never done that.
Yeah.
She would put peanut butter on both sides of the bread and then the, the, a glob of jelly
in the middle.
I never even thought of doing that.
Yeah.
It was just like, oh, that's, that's my mom.
I feel like I do both on both.
Cause you can kind of eat them open faced.
You think you know someone.
You know what?
You know why I say that though?
You know what really bugs me is that if I ask, if I order a bagel with cream cheese
and tomato and there's cream cheese only on one side and then the tomato and then there's
like, send it back.
I'd like a, like a naked wet bagel on the other half is like, no, that's not what I
ordered.
Yeah.
Cream cheese on both sides.
I'm with you there.
So now I say cream cheese on both sides with tomato.
Cause the tomato is very wet and it will just get the one side soggy.
Right.
I'm going to try the double PBJ.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm going to try that.
So yeah, I mean it, it depends.
I mean, uh, it depends on the person.
It depends on the sandwich.
Wow.
A lot of variables.
Yeah.
That's a lot.
You know, I think we thought we put that in the easy column, but I don't think we anticipated
the thought that goes into how to answer it really.
I have to rethink all of these because my answer right off the bat is yes.
However, yeah, like what if it's like your elementary school principle making you a shit
sandwich?
Like that's not good.
Nobody likes.
Yeah.
That's better if you make that for him.
Yeah.
In my world.
Right.
No baggage there.
Oh, okay.
So now we go to uneasy.
Okay.
That was the easy question.
My ears.
What was the, uh, is it better if, if, if, if someone is the sandwich tastes better if
someone makes it for you.
That was the easy question.
Uh, my question is, have you ever, uh, knowingly served someone expired food?
I don't know because I am a terrible cook.
I mean, I'm not a cook.
So I rarely, um, make food for people.
Um, well, let me, uh, my comment on that is that if you're, if you don't cook for yourself
that much or other people that much, chances are someone has served you expired food.
Yeah.
See, and that's, and this is where like, uh, I.
I'm okay with some expired.
It depends on what it is.
Hey, like I, I, I will always speaking of reincarnation, I feel like I, when one of my past lives,
I was like in the great depression or something because I hate throwing food away.
I don't want to, I want to save everything.
And I'm like, oh, this, this cream cheese has a little mold.
I'm going to scrape that shit off.
Uh, you know, there's a layer you take off the, the protective layer.
And then there's good food underneath.
I do think I think, I think that probably I think that 40, maybe 40% of food has expiration dates
that are engineered to just make you buy more food.
Yeah.
Not all.
Like obviously visible mold, you know, is a, is a red flag.
Well, I think, I think anything in cheese, most cheese, well, cheese is already moldy.
It's already moldy, but you know, I'm not going to eat unless it's like blue cheese or something like that.
No, but you can slice off, just slice off.
I think anything in a jar that's in the fridge, like it's been opened.
It's in a jar, you know, it's maybe it's like a jelly.
What about yogurt?
Where it's like, well, yogurt, you can tell it's like you use your eyes and your nose.
Sometimes your ears, but you just take the yogurt.
I'm a pink layer off.
I just scraped that shit off.
All right.
Am I, am I see that was an idea too.
I don't know.
That was like an easier question.
I was just going to ask which, which question was made you uneasier?
Um, well, the first one was harder to answer.
I mean, the second one is like, Oh, well, most likely probably because one, I don't, I don't really cook that much.
So yes.
I love it.
And, uh, yeah, I mean, I eat expired food myself.
So it's like, I'm just like, Oh, it's probably, it's like, this is me.
It's probably fine.
Right.
It's not going to kill you.
Right.
And then how often do you really get sick?
Like not.
Yeah.
I also like grew up on a small farm and it's, you know, I like a different outlook on germs.
All right.
So with that.
Another show.
Um, this is great.
Mary, I had so much fun talking with you and Ryan, thank you so much for, for bringing Mary to the conversation.
This is great.
Yeah.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Mary appreciate it.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you.
This is the first, my first podcast and hopefully not my last.
There will be some about cats and expired food.
Let's do a new podcast about cats eating expired food.
And some hats.
Okay.
Mary, thank you again.
Mary Doherty, a singer, songwriter, performer, music therapist here on the program with Ryan and I, Ryan, thank you for your time.
Mary, thank you for your time.
What a wonderful way to spend an evening.
Thank you guys.
Alright.
Happy trails.
I just have to let go.
I know you can do it.
We're all capable of doing it.
We just have to throw it all away.
You