WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.480 And as a young assistant, your job is mainly 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.400 in the field. It's your responsibility to make 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:08.279 sure that the leaf reaches the plant properly 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:11.900 as you do the entire process of making fertilizer 00:00:11.900 --> 00:00:15.279 application, pest and disease operations, and 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:17.179 the other operations, cultural practices that 00:00:17.179 --> 00:00:19.379 go with it, are carried out in a timely manner. 00:00:19.780 --> 00:00:22.699 And the leaf is harvested and sent to the factory. 00:00:23.140 --> 00:00:25.899 Once the factory gets the leaf, it then becomes 00:00:25.899 --> 00:00:28.140 a responsibility of the factory and the staff. 00:00:28.510 --> 00:00:31.429 to make sure that it is manufactured in the style 00:00:31.429 --> 00:00:43.530 that is required as per the end user. Welcome 00:00:43.530 --> 00:00:48.090 to another show of My First Job, the podcast. 00:00:48.429 --> 00:00:52.130 We've had 26 episodes so far, each a different 00:00:52.130 --> 00:00:55.170 career trajectory. And today is no different. 00:00:55.429 --> 00:00:59.250 All of us. have a morning cup of coffee. We choose 00:00:59.250 --> 00:01:02.390 the brand we like. We have certain preferences 00:01:02.390 --> 00:01:05.689 for how we love our coffee or tea. Today's guest 00:01:05.689 --> 00:01:09.129 is a carnassier. He's a man with a tremendous 00:01:09.129 --> 00:01:13.189 amount of experience in managing large tea estates, 00:01:13.189 --> 00:01:17.170 not just in India, but in Laos and Papua New 00:01:17.170 --> 00:01:20.489 Guinea. Ramesh Vasudevan has had a wonderful 00:01:20.489 --> 00:01:24.670 career managing and navigating the entire process 00:01:24.670 --> 00:01:28.980 of tea making. including tasting. So let's speak 00:01:28.980 --> 00:01:33.219 to him and find out what happened in this wonderful 00:01:33.219 --> 00:01:36.579 journey of his. Hi, Ramesh. Hi, Venu. Wonderful 00:01:36.579 --> 00:01:39.239 to have you on the show. I'm sure that there 00:01:39.239 --> 00:01:41.400 are so many experiences that you can tell us 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.260 about that will be completely new to a whole 00:01:44.260 --> 00:01:47.079 lot of the listeners of the show. Thank you so 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:49.239 much, Venu. I'm not asking you for the brand, 00:01:49.379 --> 00:01:52.500 but do you start your morning with a cup of tea? 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:56.060 Actually, I don't. I start with a cup of coffee. 00:01:57.479 --> 00:02:00.680 I must be honest. And if I fit my first question, 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:02.560 it's not right. So actually, I do start with 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:04.500 a cup of coffee. I'm equally partial towards 00:02:04.500 --> 00:02:07.579 both. I do drink my tea in the evening. I prefer 00:02:07.579 --> 00:02:10.580 a good cup of dajiling in the evening. I start 00:02:10.580 --> 00:02:12.960 the day with a good cup of Arabica coffee. It 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:15.680 charges the batteries immediately. No, the reason 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:17.900 I asked is because for most of us, it's just 00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:20.979 a morning ritual. But for you, it's much more 00:02:20.979 --> 00:02:23.240 than a ritual. It's almost, it was part of your 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:25.979 career. Can you start from... Let's say college, 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:27.879 because that's the point at which most of us 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.560 decide how we're going to embark on our careers. 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:33.340 That's correct, Venu. Actually, I had no clue 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:36.500 about the existence of plantations per se. I 00:02:36.500 --> 00:02:39.439 studied in Ferguson College in Pune. I was very 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:42.460 keen on economics. The college had a very strong 00:02:42.460 --> 00:02:45.620 economics department. I was pursuing my master's 00:02:45.620 --> 00:02:47.639 in economics at the Gokul Institute of Politics 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:50.599 and Economics as well. That's when I visited 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:54.340 an estate down in South India. Having come onto 00:02:54.340 --> 00:02:57.259 the estate, I was taken up with the lifestyle 00:02:57.259 --> 00:03:01.560 and I was taken up with the absolute peace, tranquility, 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:05.800 the ability to go to play games in the evening. 00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:09.620 It seemed just the lifestyle for me. The only 00:03:09.620 --> 00:03:11.919 other similar lifestyle would have been the services. 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:14.379 I was very keen on joining the services too. 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:18.319 In fact, I did join. I did my exam, the combined 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:21.099 defense service exams, got through the whole 00:03:21.099 --> 00:03:24.020 thing, but ultimately made a choice and said, 00:03:24.349 --> 00:03:28.650 I would join plantations. So at the age of 20, 00:03:28.909 --> 00:03:32.270 I joined a company called Malayalam Plantations. 00:03:32.590 --> 00:03:36.990 It was a British company down south based out 00:03:36.990 --> 00:03:40.810 of Cochrane. I had plantations in Kerala and 00:03:40.810 --> 00:03:44.210 in Tamil Nadu. That's how I got into planting. 00:03:44.629 --> 00:03:46.849 So what are the first things that you were doing? 00:03:46.969 --> 00:03:50.169 When you join, what happens? What are the jobs 00:03:50.169 --> 00:03:53.719 that you're, you know, asked to do? Yeah, the 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:56.800 whole process is pretty demanding because you 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:59.539 had to go through a written exam. You had to 00:03:59.539 --> 00:04:02.520 make sure that there are quite a few guys who 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.219 are probably keen to get into planting. There 00:04:05.219 --> 00:04:07.479 was a written exam and after that, there was 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:09.599 an extended interview where you're sent to the 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:12.080 plantations. The successful candidates were sent 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.180 into the plantations to spend a couple of days 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:18.459 in the plantations. You would be observed by 00:04:18.459 --> 00:04:20.459 the manager of the plantations to see whether 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:23.180 you're capable of being a fit. for the lifestyle 00:04:23.180 --> 00:04:26.000 there. So it was virtually, at that time, I'm 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.360 talking nearly 40 years ago, it was a 360 degree 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.720 sort of interview where you were observed from 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:34.699 all angles to see whether you would be a right 00:04:34.699 --> 00:04:37.259 fit. So it was your background, it was your ability 00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:41.040 to comprehend the requirements of the job. What 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:43.339 you decided was not the only important thing, 00:04:43.420 --> 00:04:45.839 but also what others thought about you was important. 00:04:46.100 --> 00:04:49.240 So ultimately, if the manager felt that you were 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:53.360 capable, You were then given the go -ahead and 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.920 sent back to the company in Cochin. And they 00:04:56.920 --> 00:04:59.060 would then let you know whether you were successful 00:04:59.060 --> 00:05:01.680 or not. And being successful, you're posted as 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.639 a young assistant manager to one of the plantations. 00:05:04.819 --> 00:05:07.839 I started my career in a state called Mayfield 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:11.620 in the Middle Greece. My manager was a no -nonsense, 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:16.079 a hard taskmaster, extremely fair, extremely 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.430 firm, but extremely fair. And I learned a lot 00:05:19.430 --> 00:05:22.970 from him because he showed me how things should 00:05:22.970 --> 00:05:27.129 be done in a manner that is, which held no biases, 00:05:27.189 --> 00:05:30.350 but at the same time, made sure that you did 00:05:30.350 --> 00:05:32.990 it the right way, despite the consequences that 00:05:32.990 --> 00:05:35.490 came your way. I want to understand as an assistant 00:05:35.490 --> 00:05:39.470 manager, what would a normal day be like? I would 00:05:39.470 --> 00:05:42.110 start the day, get up around 5 .30 in the morning. 00:05:42.209 --> 00:05:46.290 By 6, I would be down at what they call the muster. 00:05:48.009 --> 00:05:51.610 the workers of the divisions of the estates would 00:05:51.610 --> 00:05:54.329 gather and there would be allotted work. You 00:05:54.329 --> 00:05:56.970 then went down there and stood along with the 00:05:56.970 --> 00:06:00.810 staff, the officers who ran the plantations and 00:06:00.810 --> 00:06:04.009 allocated work to various workers. Then after 00:06:04.009 --> 00:06:06.949 that, went down to the factory where the manufacturer 00:06:06.949 --> 00:06:09.870 would be on, spend some time in the factory and 00:06:09.870 --> 00:06:12.110 then got home for breakfast. You would then spend 00:06:12.110 --> 00:06:17.600 time in the estate of itself. and do what was 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.120 required. Every minute of the day was busy. You 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.620 hardly had any time to, you know, actually spend 00:06:24.620 --> 00:06:28.319 on anything else except work. It's a hard day's 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:31.680 work. And learning and working together was a 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:36.000 task by itself. So you had to learn very fast 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.079 because the workers were looking at you and saying, 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:40.740 well, if this young man is going to be the one 00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:42.540 who's going to be telling me how work must be 00:06:42.540 --> 00:06:45.449 done, let's see what he knows about it. And there 00:06:45.449 --> 00:06:47.769 was this instance, there's a practice called 00:06:47.769 --> 00:06:51.149 pruning, where you prune a tea bush. The bushes 00:06:51.149 --> 00:06:54.870 in South India are basically in the age of about, 00:06:54.910 --> 00:06:58.069 say, 100, 125 years old. And they're all massive 00:06:58.069 --> 00:07:01.509 bushes, which have been pruned to keep them to 00:07:01.509 --> 00:07:04.930 the level that they are. And this is a four -year 00:07:04.930 --> 00:07:07.189 practice where you prune the bushes, be able 00:07:07.189 --> 00:07:09.750 to point out the faults in pruning, flaws that 00:07:09.750 --> 00:07:12.269 come into it when you went to the field. I remember 00:07:12.269 --> 00:07:15.279 I was... given a knife and told by the manager, 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:19.079 please go and start pruning. And in a matter 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:21.560 of 15 days, I would like you to make sure that 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:23.360 you know you're pruning and you will finish the 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:25.939 task. There was, I think, 200 bushes. I'm treated. 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:29.600 I did that and I finished my pruning and I was 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.899 very proud about it. And my manager came up to 00:07:31.899 --> 00:07:33.800 me and said, after 15 days, and asked me, have 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:35.379 you done your, have you done the task? I said, 00:07:35.420 --> 00:07:37.759 yes. He had one located and he called the supervisor 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:41.079 over and asked him, what do you think about his 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:45.839 pruning? He looked around, he shuffled and he 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.620 looked down. He said, no, be honest. What do 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:51.259 you think should be done? He said, if you ask 00:07:51.259 --> 00:07:57.439 me, I think he should be charge cheated. So it 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:00.920 just made me realize that it's very, very easy 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.259 to supervise people when you don't have to do 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:05.480 the job. It's when you actually have to do the 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:08.300 job and when you need to do it well that you 00:08:08.300 --> 00:08:10.560 realize how difficult it is, how simple this 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.589 job may be. So that was a learning that stuck 00:08:13.589 --> 00:08:16.910 with me for the rest of my life. And I still 00:08:16.910 --> 00:08:19.050 continue to say that, you know, if you want to 00:08:19.050 --> 00:08:21.089 ask someone to do a job, make sure that you know 00:08:21.089 --> 00:08:24.189 how to do it. So when you first had your experience 00:08:24.189 --> 00:08:27.769 of the estate plantation, that was like the trailer. 00:08:28.310 --> 00:08:31.850 But the main film was quite different from what 00:08:31.850 --> 00:08:33.450 you thought it would be about playing buildings. 00:08:33.789 --> 00:08:36.470 But you discovered that it's a... Absolutely. 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:40.080 Working in a plantation is a totally different 00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:42.720 aspect altogether. There are so many cultural 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:45.320 practices. There are so many things that go into 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:47.220 making that simple cup of tea or coffee that 00:08:47.220 --> 00:08:50.200 we have in the morning. In a tea estate, you 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.139 have to pluck the tea leaves. Like I told you, 00:08:54.139 --> 00:08:56.799 the bushes in South India are only 120 years 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:02.460 old. And you really need to pluck the tea in 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:04.659 the right time. You have to make sure that the 00:09:04.659 --> 00:09:06.480 quality of the green leaf... Why is that? Why 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.000 is it that it's asked, they ask, you know, people 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.399 pluck it early in the mornings? Or is there a 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:15.159 time when this... It's plucked throughout the 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.500 day, but there is a particular interval of time 00:09:18.500 --> 00:09:22.500 between the plucking of leaves. So every bush 00:09:22.500 --> 00:09:25.580 has to be plucked every 12 days to make sure, 00:09:25.659 --> 00:09:28.299 10 to 12 days, in order to make sure that the 00:09:28.299 --> 00:09:31.090 quality of the green leaf is retained. It is 00:09:31.090 --> 00:09:34.409 there that you have the thioflavins and thiorubins, 00:09:34.529 --> 00:09:39.809 which actually impart the flavor and the strength 00:09:39.809 --> 00:09:43.730 of these teas. So it is the duty of the field 00:09:43.730 --> 00:09:46.070 staff to ensure that the raw material that comes 00:09:46.070 --> 00:09:48.950 to the factory is of optimum quality. And as 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:51.809 a young assistant, your job is mainly in the 00:09:51.809 --> 00:09:54.649 field. It's your responsibility to make sure 00:09:54.649 --> 00:09:57.049 that the neat bleach is stacked properly. As 00:09:57.049 --> 00:10:00.269 you do the entire process of making fertilizer 00:10:00.269 --> 00:10:04.429 application, pest and disease operations, and 00:10:04.429 --> 00:10:06.289 the other operations, cultural practices that 00:10:06.289 --> 00:10:08.490 go with it, I carry it out in a timely manner. 00:10:08.889 --> 00:10:11.830 And the leaf is harvested and sent to the factory. 00:10:12.350 --> 00:10:15.009 Once the factory gets the leaf, it then becomes 00:10:15.009 --> 00:10:17.269 a responsibility of the factory and the staff 00:10:17.269 --> 00:10:20.529 to make sure that it is manufactured in the style 00:10:20.529 --> 00:10:25.840 that is required as per the end user. Now, in 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:29.799 India, you had two different types of teas. You 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.600 had the orthodox manufacture and you had the 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:36.980 CTC man. The orthodox is what you get, which 00:10:36.980 --> 00:10:39.440 is basically the older style of manufacture, 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.679 which involves the rolling tables where tea is 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:46.019 withered. And there's a process called withering, 00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:48.299 wherein you remove the surface moisture as well 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:51.299 as the moisture from the leaf. And it is brought 00:10:51.299 --> 00:10:54.220 to an optimum. moisture percentage, the leaf 00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:55.960 is brought to occur moisture percentage, and 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:58.779 then it is rolled. And once it is rolled, it 00:10:58.779 --> 00:11:01.179 is of this process of oxidation, what they call 00:11:01.179 --> 00:11:03.980 fermentation that takes place, and then it is 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:08.000 dried. There's a process by using fire dryers. 00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:11.259 That is the orthodox way of drying. The CTC is 00:11:11.259 --> 00:11:13.919 called, CTC stands for crush, tear, and curl. 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.080 They're basically circular rollers which have 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.820 got teeth on them, and the leaf is passed through 00:11:19.820 --> 00:11:22.309 the macerators, basically. So you pass the tree 00:11:22.309 --> 00:11:25.590 leaf through it, and it macerates the tea, and 00:11:25.590 --> 00:11:27.230 it comes out the other end. And then there's 00:11:27.230 --> 00:11:29.669 a similar process of fermentation and drying. 00:11:30.190 --> 00:11:32.590 Once the fermentation and drying is done, it 00:11:32.590 --> 00:11:36.090 then goes in for grading and sorting, where you 00:11:36.090 --> 00:11:38.669 get the different types of grades. You have the 00:11:38.669 --> 00:11:41.629 leaf grades, and then you get the dust. The leaf 00:11:41.629 --> 00:11:45.129 grades are of lighter liquor, and the dust grades 00:11:45.129 --> 00:11:49.970 are stronger. This is very basic that I'm talking 00:11:49.970 --> 00:11:52.940 about. But if you go through it in detail, there 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:55.059 would be a lot of other nuances which could be 00:11:55.059 --> 00:12:00.600 thought about. That's the amazing part, I think, 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.860 of every career. The basics can be learned in 00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:06.340 about six months to a year. The nuances take 00:12:06.340 --> 00:12:11.259 a lifetime. Absolutely. So, there are so many 00:12:11.259 --> 00:12:14.039 things about. So, I just wanted to understand 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:17.200 when you said cultural practices. Yeah, it would 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:19.799 depend like, say, the question disease practice, 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:22.100 you know. Tea is very prone to pests. You have 00:12:22.100 --> 00:12:25.240 the sucking pests and then you have the stem, 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.659 but they have borders which are pests. So you 00:12:28.659 --> 00:12:31.740 need to address this by using the right type 00:12:31.740 --> 00:12:33.919 of pesticides and the right type of fungicides 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.039 and in the right dosages and in a timely manner. 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:41.139 You need to prune the bush. You need to make 00:12:41.139 --> 00:12:43.639 sure that the bushes are tipped at a particular 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.899 height. You need to regulate the shade in the 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:50.269 tea estates. Because the shade makes a lot of 00:12:50.269 --> 00:12:53.269 difference in the growth and the amount of the 00:12:53.269 --> 00:12:56.710 growth of the tea plant and as well as the tea 00:12:56.710 --> 00:12:59.889 leaf is dependent upon the shade. So in South 00:12:59.889 --> 00:13:02.350 India, for example, we use extensive amount of 00:13:02.350 --> 00:13:05.129 shade, but in certain other places, shade is 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:07.649 not used at all. Depending on how close you are 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:10.610 to the crater and how far away you are, it makes 00:13:10.610 --> 00:13:12.470 a lot of difference and also your elevation. 00:13:12.769 --> 00:13:16.490 All this makes a difference as far as the type 00:13:16.490 --> 00:13:21.220 of need. And you would try to grow. And these 00:13:21.220 --> 00:13:22.779 are the culture practices, Venu, that really 00:13:22.779 --> 00:13:25.679 go into it. Basically, handling of key. So you 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:28.299 had a lot of walking to do on a daily basis? 00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:32.080 It was... Yeah. One of the charm of the job was 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:35.399 that you were given an Enfield motorcycle. But 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.240 I didn't realize that the motorcycle was supposed 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:39.720 to be parked on the road and you had to do a 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:42.779 lot of walking after that. So, yes, there was 00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:47.179 a lot of... There was a lot of... There was a 00:13:47.179 --> 00:13:49.899 lot of walking to be done. The bike would be 00:13:49.899 --> 00:13:52.620 polished and kept, and you walked everywhere. 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.899 And if, God forbid, you were caught using the 00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:57.919 bike for anything else, except for going home 00:13:57.919 --> 00:14:01.659 or here. So, yes, the motorcycle was there. And 00:14:01.659 --> 00:14:03.299 it's only later on that you started using the 00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:05.580 bike to go to various work spots. But then you 00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:08.279 did actually have to walk a lot. Yes, extensive 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:12.259 work. And I can relate a very hilarious, when 00:14:12.259 --> 00:14:14.980 you talk about walking, it was this evening. 00:14:15.629 --> 00:14:17.730 After work, it was around 6 o 'clock in the evening. 00:14:17.850 --> 00:14:22.470 And I still remember the master didn't have electricity. 00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:26.309 And it was office. And I had just finished the 00:14:26.309 --> 00:14:29.190 work in the evening. It was dusk. And I was getting 00:14:29.190 --> 00:14:30.970 back. And the motorcycle wasn't there. But the 00:14:30.970 --> 00:14:33.429 motorcycle was parked at the bungalow because 00:14:33.429 --> 00:14:36.049 I was told I needed to walk. So I was walking 00:14:36.049 --> 00:14:39.250 up. And then I took a shortcut through one of 00:14:39.250 --> 00:14:42.990 the teepees. I took the shortcut. And I took 00:14:42.990 --> 00:14:48.409 a bend. There was a brown bear. They had to go 00:14:48.409 --> 00:14:51.769 at one of the anthills. I looked at the bear 00:14:51.769 --> 00:14:55.029 and ran in the opposite direction. The bear looked 00:14:55.029 --> 00:14:57.230 at me and ran in the opposite direction. We didn't 00:14:57.230 --> 00:14:59.750 see each other. We hadn't met each other after 00:14:59.750 --> 00:15:07.429 that. But I'm sure both of us cared. These sort 00:15:07.429 --> 00:15:12.509 of adventures did come our way. And I found a 00:15:12.509 --> 00:15:19.820 leopard cub. in one of the fields, and the forest 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:21.700 department is not very happy that I was keeping 00:15:21.700 --> 00:15:23.820 it in the estate, and we had to hand it over. 00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:27.779 We ultimately did, and I don't know what happened 00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:30.419 to it. I hope that it survived. There were a 00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:32.360 lot of planters, and there were a lot of lepers, 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.399 a lot of wildlife on these estates at that time. 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.379 I'm sure it's still there, but at that time, 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.960 it was still pretty wild. It was a lot. Okay. 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.139 Your early schooling and all that, was it in 00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:48.379 an urban setting? I studied, yes. I studied in 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:52.860 Loyola in Coonah. And it was basically an urban 00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:54.799 setting. But my father was an instructor at the 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.580 National Defence Academy at the NDA. And so I 00:15:58.580 --> 00:16:04.100 was exposed to a lot of the semi -rural life 00:16:04.100 --> 00:16:08.279 too at the NDA because the campus was out there 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.230 in Kadakwasla. Beautiful place to grow up. We 00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:13.190 had the best of both worlds, not being in the 00:16:13.190 --> 00:16:16.049 NDA, but living in the NDA. And then coming to 00:16:16.049 --> 00:16:20.750 school, I did my schooling at Loyola and Pula. 00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:24.230 Now, the reason I ask is that, you know, typically 00:16:24.230 --> 00:16:29.149 these two worlds are almost, to put it, you know, 00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:32.429 like a cliche, they're worlds apart. So to get 00:16:32.429 --> 00:16:35.110 used to life in a plantation, to figure out what 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:37.509 this thing is, is a very different lifestyle 00:16:37.509 --> 00:16:40.350 from what the... urban kids are used to today 00:16:40.350 --> 00:16:42.850 so do you find that that is one of the things 00:16:42.850 --> 00:16:46.610 where is recruitment an issue for today's plantations 00:16:46.610 --> 00:16:48.590 or it continues to be just like before there 00:16:48.590 --> 00:16:50.710 is a set of people who come you hit the nail 00:16:50.710 --> 00:16:55.009 on the head or the life in the plantations is 00:16:55.009 --> 00:16:58.190 very different there is a lot of isolation the 00:16:58.190 --> 00:17:02.929 ability to live to to work and be isolated from 00:17:02.929 --> 00:17:06.269 all the lights of the city is something that's 00:17:06.269 --> 00:17:09.049 very difficult for kids who haven't really experienced 00:17:09.049 --> 00:17:12.589 this sort of lifestyle. And it becomes even more 00:17:12.589 --> 00:17:15.890 difficult once you get married and your spouse 00:17:15.890 --> 00:17:19.430 is not used to this sort of life. And a lot of... 00:17:19.430 --> 00:17:23.609 It does get difficult for the girls because living 00:17:23.609 --> 00:17:26.230 on the plantation can be extremely lonely. I 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:29.470 was fortunate because Lakshmi, my wife, was a 00:17:29.470 --> 00:17:32.650 planter's daughter. And she was able to adjust 00:17:32.650 --> 00:17:35.700 very... What the life was like. Yeah, she knew 00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:39.500 about the life. And though she often tells me 00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:42.660 that never ever think that it's an excuse that 00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:45.839 you're going to get away with. And it's made 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:51.079 sure that I... It's always important that we 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:55.220 had a break, went out, went back to places that 00:17:55.220 --> 00:17:58.799 we could see a movie, probably go to a restaurant. 00:17:58.900 --> 00:18:01.000 All those sort of things are very, very important. 00:18:01.529 --> 00:18:04.329 So we were lucky, but there are certain places 00:18:04.329 --> 00:18:07.470 where it could be very, very isolated, and especially 00:18:07.470 --> 00:18:10.509 in the rubber estates, which are far more isolated 00:18:10.509 --> 00:18:13.109 than tea estates. The company that I worked with, 00:18:13.190 --> 00:18:16.869 I started my plantation career, Milan Plantations, 00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:20.390 basically both tea and rubber plantations. The 00:18:20.390 --> 00:18:24.230 tea estates were much more closer to town, had 00:18:24.230 --> 00:18:26.609 much better social life because there were clubs 00:18:26.609 --> 00:18:29.529 and, you know, one went to the club quite frequently, 00:18:29.690 --> 00:18:32.599 many once a week. But in the rubber estates, 00:18:32.619 --> 00:18:37.380 there were no clubs close by. And I could get 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:40.900 very, very lonely and doomy. So, yes. So, how 00:18:40.900 --> 00:18:44.359 would you get past? What was your normal? Would 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:47.079 you get down to reading? What is it that, you 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:50.339 know, would happen to spend? 100%. A voracious 00:18:50.339 --> 00:18:53.619 reader. I read a lot of books and books were 00:18:53.619 --> 00:18:58.140 lifelike. And we went, traveled miles to borrow 00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:00.940 books from each other. And one of the biggest 00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:03.299 things that you could get, give as a gift to 00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:06.119 any planter would be a set of books. How old 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:09.259 they may be. And often what planters did is when 00:19:09.259 --> 00:19:11.359 they left, when they were transferred out, a 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:13.500 lot of them left their old books behind in the 00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:17.299 bungalow itself so that the incoming guy could 00:19:17.299 --> 00:19:20.880 read most of those. And these clubs also had 00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.759 libraries. So it was very much, it was definitely 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:30.009 a life. It was much later. that the TV came and, 00:19:30.069 --> 00:19:32.609 you know, we were able to actually afford a TV. 00:19:32.769 --> 00:19:35.109 I still remember my first black and white 14 00:19:35.109 --> 00:19:40.509 -inch TV, which had very grainy, you know, sort 00:19:40.509 --> 00:19:43.849 of reception -y pictures, yes. And watching it, 00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:46.789 watching the World Cup football, without knowing 00:19:46.789 --> 00:19:48.690 who was scoring what goal, except for the night, 00:19:48.789 --> 00:19:55.170 who was scoring the goal. So it was that sort 00:19:55.170 --> 00:19:59.750 of an existence. It was a tough life. But nevertheless, 00:19:59.990 --> 00:20:03.950 it had its own stuff. Yeah. No, and at some point, 00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:08.009 I think it's a, not that you get used to it, 00:20:08.029 --> 00:20:11.069 but you discover your ways around it. You discover 00:20:11.069 --> 00:20:14.190 the compensations. Like you said, for most people, 00:20:14.230 --> 00:20:17.789 going into forest would be a break. And for you, 00:20:17.829 --> 00:20:20.029 getting into an urban environment would be a 00:20:20.029 --> 00:20:23.269 break. So it's so true. So true. It's just like 00:20:23.269 --> 00:20:27.210 a flip of the whole coin. So true. Leave for 00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:29.950 us. We look forward to going on leave and not 00:20:29.950 --> 00:20:33.170 going anywhere near a, you know, a health station 00:20:33.170 --> 00:20:35.369 or anything of that sort. Be right in the middle 00:20:35.369 --> 00:20:38.549 of Pune. My parents were in Pune. So, you come 00:20:38.549 --> 00:20:40.509 to Pune and be right there in the middle of town. 00:20:40.789 --> 00:20:43.549 And, you know, skin people. That was a breakthrough 00:20:43.549 --> 00:20:46.769 for us. Yes. Great. So, how long were you at 00:20:46.769 --> 00:20:50.099 Harrison Malayalam? And what happened next? I 00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:55.579 was with them for 18 years. I continued to be 00:20:55.579 --> 00:20:57.920 with them for 18 years. I started as an assistant 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:01.680 and I left as a manager, as a senior manager. 00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:05.420 My last estate was an estate called Wentworth, 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:09.019 which was in the middle of Greece. And I left 00:21:09.019 --> 00:21:11.400 from there. I was on that estate for almost seven 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:16.140 years. And I bought tea and coffee. And it was 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:17.640 one of the prized properties of the company. 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.319 I spent a good seven years there. We had the 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:27.160 good fortune of being chosen at the best estate 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:32.119 for the best performances. And we were recognized 00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:35.599 by the company for this effort. And it's all 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.319 entirely due to the excellent effort of the team 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:43.660 that I had. Wonderful bunch of managers and workers 00:21:43.660 --> 00:21:48.079 who went the extra mile to make sure that we 00:21:48.509 --> 00:21:52.549 achieved our tasks and we achieved our goals 00:21:52.549 --> 00:21:59.029 and made the sort of financial targets that was 00:21:59.029 --> 00:22:03.069 set by the car. So how would you handle, let's 00:22:03.069 --> 00:22:06.109 say, a lot of these people working hard, it's 00:22:06.109 --> 00:22:08.490 hard labor, there's a lot of work to be done. 00:22:08.789 --> 00:22:11.289 How do you keep motivational levels high? And 00:22:11.289 --> 00:22:14.309 do you remember any particular ways, points at 00:22:14.309 --> 00:22:17.440 which you knew that you had to... managed situations 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:21.440 which had cropped up suddenly? Yes, sir. We had 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:23.500 to have an incentive system and we had introduced 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:26.559 incentive systems at various levels. Right from 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:28.500 the worker level to institute level, there were 00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:30.960 incentive systems that were introduced. And for 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:33.180 high performers, there were incentives that were 00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:35.900 being given. For workers, depending upon the 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:37.799 extra number of kilos that they were plucking 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:39.960 or picking, there was incentives that were given 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.740 to them. So yes, you have to incentivize. Otherwise, 00:22:42.819 --> 00:22:48.170 there is bound to be you know, a very, yeah, 00:22:48.289 --> 00:22:51.410 you would find that standard of work would be 00:22:51.410 --> 00:22:54.230 extremely ordinary rather than extraordinary. 00:22:54.529 --> 00:22:56.910 So in order to get the extraordinary for people, 00:22:57.549 --> 00:23:01.569 incentivization is absolutely essential. Okay. 00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:06.430 So let's go to your experience in Papua New Guinea 00:23:06.430 --> 00:23:10.089 and Laos, which I think are worlds apart from 00:23:10.089 --> 00:23:12.470 wherever you started in Harrison's Malayalam, 00:23:12.569 --> 00:23:16.710 new countries, new... And then we'll come to, 00:23:16.809 --> 00:23:21.569 yeah, we'll, let's take it there. Yes. So like 00:23:21.569 --> 00:23:25.789 I said, I worked with them, I worked with Harrison's 00:23:25.789 --> 00:23:28.690 Malayan Plantations. Then later on, it became 00:23:28.690 --> 00:23:33.869 Harrison's Malayan till 2000. And then I left 00:23:33.869 --> 00:23:37.630 for New Guinea, greener pastures. And there was 00:23:37.630 --> 00:23:40.109 this company called WR Carpenters. It's at that 00:23:40.109 --> 00:23:43.349 time considered to be one of the better. or shall 00:23:43.349 --> 00:23:45.470 we say, top planting companies in the world. 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:49.650 And they operated out of New Guinea and in the 00:23:49.650 --> 00:23:52.609 highlands of New Guinea. New Guinea is probably 00:23:52.609 --> 00:23:55.509 the second largest island in the world after 00:23:55.509 --> 00:23:59.210 Australia. Divided into two parts. One part is 00:23:59.210 --> 00:24:02.950 the Indonesian part, which is Iringaya, and the 00:24:02.950 --> 00:24:06.990 other part is New Guinea. So it's similar people, 00:24:07.130 --> 00:24:11.430 a country divided right in the middle by the... 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.720 so -called colonial powers, very similar to what 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:17.220 happened between India and Pakistan. A line was 00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:19.400 drawn and said, okay, this part is Indonesia 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.519 and this part is New Guinea. So a partition actually 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.420 took place there. So you have this partition 00:24:25.420 --> 00:24:28.299 that took place. And New Guinea is a wonderful 00:24:28.299 --> 00:24:32.119 country. It's minerally extremely rich. It has 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:34.339 probably one of the biggest deposits of gold, 00:24:34.460 --> 00:24:38.339 copper. It's got oil and gas. You have every 00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:41.779 big miner in the world. operating in New Guinea. 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:47.099 And it also has various, produces fantastic tea, 00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:51.180 coffee. The high -grown coffees of New Guinea 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:54.319 rate at the top coffees in the world. The company 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:57.799 that I work with, Carpenters, at one time, our 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.299 coffees were rated in the top 10 coffees in the 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:02.579 world. And that is a matter of great pride as 00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:05.180 part of the company went. And the brand that 00:25:05.180 --> 00:25:08.819 I talk about is called Sigri Coffee. And the 00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:10.839 cup that I'm holding here is the sugary coffee 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:15.460 cup. A lot of memories, good memories that come 00:25:15.460 --> 00:25:20.099 with this. So, yes. So, New Guinea was a country 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:23.940 that had 800 different languages. 800 different. 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.740 And warring tribes... How do people manage to 00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:32.819 communicate? Well, there were three basic languages 00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:38.359 that were used in New Guinea. One was... Motu, 00:25:38.420 --> 00:25:41.519 that was used in the coastal areas and the islands. 00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:45.660 Then you had Pidgin, Toctosan, as they were called, 00:25:45.819 --> 00:25:49.619 that was used in the highlands and in the other 00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:52.960 areas. And then you had English, which is a universal 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.740 language that's used everywhere. So we learned, 00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:59.240 I had to learn Pidgin. And I learned it very 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:02.720 fast because if you didn't learn Pidgin, you 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:08.400 couldn't manage with your... So I, and, and when 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.920 I joined this company, Carpenters had this very 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:14.839 firm policy. You could come from any company 00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:17.299 in the world, but when you started, you started 00:26:17.299 --> 00:26:20.259 right at the bottom. You had to start, you had 00:26:20.259 --> 00:26:22.880 to start from the factory. So, and like, and 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.819 they said the Indians in particular had this 00:26:25.819 --> 00:26:29.420 enormous talent of writing wonderful CVs, you 00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:35.480 know? So. That's a very backhanded compliment. 00:26:37.409 --> 00:26:42.150 We take it both ways. So nevertheless, the general 00:26:42.150 --> 00:26:47.829 manager was a tough old Scotsman who told me 00:26:47.829 --> 00:26:51.089 that, well, if you have to start, the bottom 00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:52.609 is where you start and then you rise upwards. 00:26:52.789 --> 00:26:55.869 You prove yourself and you could head the company 00:26:55.869 --> 00:26:59.329 someday. Well, I'm happy to say I started at 00:26:59.329 --> 00:27:01.349 the bottom, but I actually headed the company 00:27:01.349 --> 00:27:04.960 one day. And I ended up as the general manager 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:08.660 of WR Carpenters in a matter of 10 years. And 00:27:08.660 --> 00:27:11.500 when I ran the company, I ran WR Carpenters. 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.140 You created a harvester there, right? You were 00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:17.480 not mechanically inclined earlier, but how did 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:22.000 that happen? Yes, that's interesting. This company 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.559 was extremely, was one of the pioneers of mechanical 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:29.420 harvesting. Harvesting, as we know, is normally 00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:31.460 plucked. You know, you find everywhere in the 00:27:31.460 --> 00:27:33.180 world people pluck wheat tea with their hands. 00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:38.660 And it was a laborious process. In New Guinea, 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.240 you didn't have the labor to pluck the tea. You 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:42.980 had the tea. You could grow the tea, but you 00:27:42.980 --> 00:27:44.759 didn't have the labor to pluck it. So you had 00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:48.700 to mechanize. And the area was flat. So therefore, 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.539 it lent itself to mechanization. So there was 00:27:53.539 --> 00:27:56.220 already a process of mechanization that took 00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.720 place and they had already introduced early harvesters 00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.720 in the beginning. By the time I went there, they 00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:06.559 were using three -man harvesters. And I was keen 00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:09.180 on developing something that would be more mechanical, 00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:12.579 would be track -driven. And I found an old piece 00:28:12.579 --> 00:28:16.039 of junk lying in one of the workshops in one 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:19.440 of the estates. And I set about, you know... 00:28:19.690 --> 00:28:22.569 Actually, literally taking the cobwebs off it 00:28:22.569 --> 00:28:25.910 and pushed it out into the light up there and 00:28:25.910 --> 00:28:30.130 then looked at it and found that it was an old 00:28:30.130 --> 00:28:32.869 wreck that required a lot of work. So I had a 00:28:32.869 --> 00:28:35.470 good mechanic, a bush mechanic as we call them 00:28:35.470 --> 00:28:38.250 there, who set about doing something and we put 00:28:38.250 --> 00:28:41.349 this whole thing together, mounted an old tractor 00:28:41.349 --> 00:28:45.990 motor onto it, took the blades off these three 00:28:45.990 --> 00:28:48.440 -man harvesters. assemble the whole thing. It 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:51.660 was a mishmash of all sort of stuff that you 00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:55.180 could find. Put everything together and tried 00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:58.299 it out. The first day, the engine actually fired. 00:28:58.460 --> 00:29:02.019 That is great joy. And then the harvester actually 00:29:02.019 --> 00:29:06.220 moved. The hydraulics moved. So it worked. And 00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:08.319 then the blades worked. Getting the blades to 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.000 work to synchronize the speeds of the blades, 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.460 we required pulleys. We got all that going. It 00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:19.470 was something that was I think, good. Glorious 00:29:19.470 --> 00:29:22.549 to watch. And as it was, it was, it is a great 00:29:22.549 --> 00:29:25.950 achievement. The board was very, very appreciative 00:29:25.950 --> 00:29:30.190 of the, of the effort made. And we tried it out 00:29:30.190 --> 00:29:32.569 in the field and it's actually ran much to the 00:29:32.569 --> 00:29:35.670 pleasure of some of the supporters and much to 00:29:35.670 --> 00:29:38.069 the pleasure of a lot of others. But it's actually, 00:29:38.190 --> 00:29:42.150 and we then went to, we then decided that we 00:29:42.150 --> 00:29:44.410 will go for better harvesters because we decided 00:29:44.410 --> 00:29:47.829 that that is the way forward. And, I spent a 00:29:47.829 --> 00:29:50.390 little bit of time in Japan. General manager, 00:29:50.450 --> 00:29:52.630 my general manager at that time was a South African 00:29:52.630 --> 00:29:55.509 gentleman who took me along and we went to Japan 00:29:55.509 --> 00:29:59.190 and we spent some time there understanding how 00:29:59.190 --> 00:30:01.269 the Japanese work on these harvests. They are 00:30:01.269 --> 00:30:03.750 masters. The masters of tea harvesting were the 00:30:03.750 --> 00:30:06.410 Japanese. Japanese have small garden tea estates 00:30:06.410 --> 00:30:09.490 and are completely mechanized and they have wonderful 00:30:09.490 --> 00:30:12.150 machines that work there. So we went there to 00:30:12.150 --> 00:30:15.970 learn how they did it and devised a machine that 00:30:15.970 --> 00:30:20.109 was useful for us. And they understood our requirements, 00:30:20.410 --> 00:30:23.789 worked with us, and ultimately developed a couple 00:30:23.789 --> 00:30:26.509 of machines that we used in New Guinea. They 00:30:26.509 --> 00:30:28.470 bought the first five machines when I was there, 00:30:28.549 --> 00:30:32.130 and we actually got them working. And it was 00:30:32.130 --> 00:30:34.150 a pleasure to see these machines work because 00:30:34.150 --> 00:30:38.349 they cut labor costs by a tremendous amount, 00:30:38.569 --> 00:30:41.849 increased productivity, and improved quality. 00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:45.630 So all in all, A win -win for everyone. So it 00:30:45.630 --> 00:30:49.190 was very good. So they got these machines going 00:30:49.190 --> 00:30:53.269 and ultimately by actually fabricating an old 00:30:53.269 --> 00:30:55.769 harvester, I was able to get these machines back 00:30:55.769 --> 00:30:58.170 on the estates and it went a long way in actually 00:30:58.170 --> 00:31:01.269 mechanizing the whole craft. So that was literally 00:31:01.269 --> 00:31:03.990 your test run. And then you figured out how to 00:31:03.990 --> 00:31:08.369 get on for it and do it. Yes. And New Guinea 00:31:08.369 --> 00:31:11.230 had a group, like I was mentioning before, New 00:31:11.230 --> 00:31:14.779 Guinea had both tea and coffee. And we had the 00:31:14.779 --> 00:31:17.700 states which in India, if you look at it, tea 00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:20.920 and coffee don't grow next to each other. Normally, 00:31:21.059 --> 00:31:23.099 coffees are in a different region altogether 00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:25.740 and tea in a different region. But there, almost 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:28.579 every estate that carpenters had, had a coffee 00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:32.640 division and a tea division. And so one learned 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:35.579 coffee along with your tea. And that was a great 00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:37.380 learning experience for me because I didn't have 00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:40.339 much coffee experience. But I learned a coffee 00:31:40.339 --> 00:31:44.980 from there. And I learned the nuances of growing 00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:49.920 coffee. Then later on, even tasting coffee. Here 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:52.299 in Carpenters, they had the system of, you know, 00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:55.119 a tea tasting session would be held almost every 00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:57.559 Thursday. And it was there that I really picked 00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:00.319 up the art of, you know, learned how to taste 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:02.500 teas. Because it is essential that you tasted 00:32:02.500 --> 00:32:04.920 not only the tea that you made, but you tasted 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.980 all the teas others made too. So it was all magic. 00:32:08.890 --> 00:32:11.470 Can I just hold you back to, you know, sort of 00:32:11.470 --> 00:32:13.589 get you into the flow. So when you're making 00:32:13.589 --> 00:32:17.690 the tea, are different grades of tea made in 00:32:17.690 --> 00:32:21.130 exactly the same way? How is it that you would 00:32:21.130 --> 00:32:24.950 assess 10 varieties of tea, for example, or grades? 00:32:25.630 --> 00:32:32.529 Yeah, actually, the process till your drying 00:32:32.529 --> 00:32:36.589 is the same. Because grading actually takes place 00:32:36.589 --> 00:32:41.000 after drying. the tea. Depending upon the size 00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.819 of the granule or the leaf, it is then graded 00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:48.200 into various types. Like you say OP, orange pickle. 00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:52.799 BOP, broken orange pickle. Then you have FBOP, 00:32:53.059 --> 00:32:56.140 cloudy broken orange pickle. And so on and so 00:32:56.140 --> 00:32:58.980 forth. Depending upon the size of the grade, 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:02.460 you would then grade the teas accordingly. And 00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:05.200 the dust grades would be the smallest of the 00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:08.680 lot. So you had dust grades like dust 1. SFD, 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:11.759 special pine dust. It is actually the same tea, 00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:14.119 but broken down depending upon the size of the 00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:17.079 tea particle. And the dust teas? Smaller the 00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:20.039 particle, the dusts are much stronger, the leaf 00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.920 braids are more flavorful. So how would you assess, 00:33:24.140 --> 00:33:27.839 what is it that when you drink tea that is made, 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.420 how do you manage to differentiate between their 00:33:31.420 --> 00:33:33.539 minute variations, right? Or are they fairly 00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:36.140 strong variations? There are a lot of variations. 00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:39.019 In the tasting, there are three processes. What 00:33:39.019 --> 00:33:40.559 you have to do when you look at a cup of tea, 00:33:40.660 --> 00:33:43.599 this one is the appearance. Color of the liquor. 00:33:44.059 --> 00:33:47.920 No, the tea leaf itself. You look at the tea, 00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:50.559 you first look at the appearance of the tea. 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:54.380 They twist in the color, the blackish, brownish, 00:33:54.500 --> 00:33:58.019 the twists in the tea, the amount of tips. You 00:33:58.019 --> 00:34:01.299 look at the appearance. Then you, once it is 00:34:01.299 --> 00:34:05.240 infused, you nose it. This is... Just a minute. 00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:08.559 This is an infusion cup. You infuse your teas 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:11.820 in this for tasting. And once you taste it, you 00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:16.139 smell it. You nose it. To see when you nose it, 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.920 you're able to get, a practiced nose will be 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.300 able to detect whether it's been fired, if it's 00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:25.880 over -fired, under -fired, whether there's any 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.760 something different in the make and things like 00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.559 that from your nose itself. Sorry, what is firing? 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:34.719 What does firing mean? Firing means when you're 00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:37.119 drying your teas, you're firing your teas, you're 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:39.719 drying your teas at a temperature of about 120 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:43.679 degrees. Right? So, 120 to 150 degrees when you 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:48.079 fire it. If you overfire it, then you have burnt, 00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:51.360 the teas get burnt. So, then you will find fire 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.519 in your teas. You will have a fiery taste in 00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:56.920 your teas. A burnt taste. So, that burnt taste, 00:34:56.980 --> 00:35:01.559 you can get out of when you do this. Spell it. 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:04.579 So, practice this. When he knows it. So when 00:35:04.579 --> 00:35:07.360 he knows it, you get that straight away. And 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.440 when that's done, you're able to get an idea 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:12.639 as to whether it's been fired. So that itself 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:14.599 is an inkling as to what you're going to find 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:17.739 in the cup. So the next thing that you do, next 00:35:17.739 --> 00:35:21.780 thing that you do is you take a cup. This is 00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:26.659 a tasting cup. Okay. This is a tasting cup. So 00:35:26.659 --> 00:35:29.539 your liquor goes into this. So your liquor goes 00:35:29.539 --> 00:35:33.590 into this. And from here, You taste your teas. 00:35:33.710 --> 00:35:41.329 You roll the teas in your mouth. Okay? When during 00:35:41.329 --> 00:35:43.869 doing this process, what happens is you roll 00:35:43.869 --> 00:35:47.289 the teas on your tongue, on both sides of the 00:35:47.289 --> 00:35:50.389 tongue, and you're able to get the idea of whether 00:35:50.389 --> 00:35:52.650 the teas possess the qualities they're supposed 00:35:52.650 --> 00:35:56.090 to have. Basically, is it over -fermented? Is 00:35:56.090 --> 00:35:59.289 it over -fired? Is it pleasant? Has it got fruity? 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.260 What sort of flavor is it? Has it got a fragrance? 00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:05.619 Fragrance which, you know, people inside, flowery, 00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:07.519 fragrance. There were all sort of terminology 00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:10.340 that is used in it. But basically, that's what 00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:12.960 it's all about. Basically, you have to have a 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.059 good nose. You have to have a good tongue and 00:36:16.059 --> 00:36:19.699 palate in order to tongue it and to nose it and 00:36:19.699 --> 00:36:21.400 to tongue it. Very, very important. Your palate 00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:24.519 is very important. So, that's the nuances. So, 00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:27.480 it only comes at practice and you should be gifted 00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:30.610 enough to get that idea as to, how you can differentiate 00:36:30.610 --> 00:36:33.289 between one tea. And that comes with hundreds 00:36:33.289 --> 00:36:36.650 of tasting hundreds. So we should taste these 00:36:36.650 --> 00:36:39.349 things every week. And I know we should taste 00:36:39.349 --> 00:36:42.550 our own teas and others' teas also. And if you're 00:36:42.550 --> 00:36:44.889 in the factory, you would be tasting teas day 00:36:44.889 --> 00:36:46.690 in and day out. You'd be tasting teas to see 00:36:46.690 --> 00:36:48.969 whether the quality is being retained. Okay. 00:36:49.150 --> 00:36:52.070 So typically a tasting session would last for 00:36:52.070 --> 00:36:56.300 how long? How many teas would you... It depends 00:36:56.300 --> 00:36:58.380 on the number of cups that you put out. You probably 00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:01.059 have about, say, 50 cups, 40 to 50 cups that 00:37:01.059 --> 00:37:04.440 are put out. Say, 10 cups per estate and some 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.800 five estates, about 50 cups are put out. So, 00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:09.199 like I said, there are 50 cups like this, which 00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:12.099 are available, and you would taste each of these 00:37:12.099 --> 00:37:16.199 cups. And the art is to pick out the best of 00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:19.320 the lot and the poor ones. And you would say, 00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:21.539 this is good, this is not good, not that good, 00:37:21.619 --> 00:37:23.400 and there are certain qualities that you love. 00:37:23.869 --> 00:37:27.530 You know, there are autumnal tea. So this is 00:37:27.530 --> 00:37:30.690 essentially an art that makes a lot of difference 00:37:30.690 --> 00:37:33.409 because the pricing of the tea depends on these 00:37:33.409 --> 00:37:37.170 products. Right. Absolutely. So because if you're 00:37:37.170 --> 00:37:39.650 able to price, if you're able to point out a 00:37:39.650 --> 00:37:42.130 tea that is excellent, the pricing of that tea 00:37:42.130 --> 00:37:45.469 would be exceptional in the auctions. All these 00:37:45.469 --> 00:37:48.150 teas go to auctions and they're auctions. These 00:37:48.150 --> 00:37:50.550 teas are auctions. So they had the tasting reports. 00:37:50.690 --> 00:37:52.170 They were able to understand these are tasting 00:37:52.170 --> 00:37:54.809 reports. This is what they say. So naturally, 00:37:55.050 --> 00:37:57.309 they will be able to find out and say that they 00:37:57.309 --> 00:38:00.010 have good quality. How blends happen? In the 00:38:00.010 --> 00:38:02.949 sense that if you are blending certain types 00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:05.849 of tea, how is this entire thing managed at the 00:38:05.849 --> 00:38:08.670 back end? See, blending is essentially the process 00:38:08.670 --> 00:38:11.409 that goes into trying to get a mixture between 00:38:11.409 --> 00:38:15.769 quality and quantity. See, in tea, what you require 00:38:15.769 --> 00:38:19.849 is cuppage. For the normal tea, the guy who makes 00:38:19.849 --> 00:38:23.389 tea, the tea shop guys here, they're only the 00:38:23.389 --> 00:38:29.190 tea shops on the roadside that we have that piece 00:38:29.190 --> 00:38:32.489 of tea. Our dependent maximum number of cups 00:38:32.489 --> 00:38:35.769 that I can get from one teaspoon of tea. So for 00:38:35.769 --> 00:38:38.469 them, cuppage is important. Flavor is not important. 00:38:38.590 --> 00:38:41.429 So strength and cuppage is important. Now, blending 00:38:41.429 --> 00:38:43.869 is when you take flavor and you take strength 00:38:43.869 --> 00:38:46.000 and you blend both of them together. to get the 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.860 best of both of them. So you would find that 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:53.179 all the packaged teas, you find the 250 gram 00:38:53.179 --> 00:38:56.400 packets or 40 gram or 100 gram packets, like 00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:01.619 you find the red labels and the three roses and, 00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:03.820 you know, there's various things that you find 00:39:03.820 --> 00:39:06.639 are all blends. There are blends of various types 00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:09.179 of teas that are made. In fact, some of our teas 00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:12.780 from New Guinea were coming to Cochin for blending. 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.039 They were coming all the way from New Guinea. 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.320 to South India to blend in some of the blends 00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.460 that were being used by a major tea, probably 00:39:22.460 --> 00:39:24.619 the biggest tea company in India. Because they 00:39:24.619 --> 00:39:27.800 were wanting that particular color which the 00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.239 New Guinea tea had and the Indian teas didn't 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.139 have. So all this goes into the blends. The color 00:39:34.139 --> 00:39:36.380 of the tea, the strength of the tea, the flavor 00:39:36.380 --> 00:39:39.659 of the tea, the cups that you can get, all that. 00:39:39.739 --> 00:39:42.780 So all that goes into making a favorable blend. 00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:45.340 And they have a very intricate sheet. called 00:39:45.340 --> 00:39:48.099 the blend sheet. So in the blend sheet, the guy 00:39:48.099 --> 00:39:50.960 who's doing the blend master will write what 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:53.820 is the type of tea, how much of that should be 00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.840 blended, and what is the process of blending 00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.420 also that has to be done. And how do you keep 00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:03.119 this consistent? Because the crop, nature is 00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.219 not something that will give you exactly the 00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:10.360 same flavor profile each time. Climatic conditions, 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:12.820 all of this. So how do you maintain consistency? 00:40:13.630 --> 00:40:17.949 based on a previous tasting. That is where quality 00:40:17.949 --> 00:40:20.829 management comes into being. We try to maintain 00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:24.070 to the maximum extent this consistent quality 00:40:24.070 --> 00:40:27.590 in the tea. You have to do that. Otherwise, you 00:40:27.590 --> 00:40:29.550 would find that there's a huge variation that 00:40:29.550 --> 00:40:32.409 takes place. However, it is recognized for a 00:40:32.409 --> 00:40:35.829 fact that in a place like, say, Darjeeling, the 00:40:35.829 --> 00:40:38.289 first flush, Darjeeling, first flush and the 00:40:38.289 --> 00:40:41.190 second flush. That is, they have three or four 00:40:41.190 --> 00:40:43.010 types of, they have the first flush, they have 00:40:43.010 --> 00:40:45.349 the second flush, then they have the autumnal 00:40:45.349 --> 00:40:48.389 flush, and then they have the monsoon flush. 00:40:48.750 --> 00:40:50.809 Now, the first flush and the second flush is 00:40:50.809 --> 00:40:53.110 where there is maximum demand because the best 00:40:53.110 --> 00:40:55.630 teas are made, Darjeeling teas are made at that 00:40:55.630 --> 00:40:58.349 particular time. Whereas in Assam, it is the 00:40:58.349 --> 00:41:01.130 second flush that is much in demand because that's 00:41:01.130 --> 00:41:03.409 the best teas that they make. In South India, 00:41:03.570 --> 00:41:07.630 we are fortunate that both are, we don't have 00:41:07.630 --> 00:41:10.519 those sort of of the differences that take place. 00:41:10.619 --> 00:41:15.900 It's more or less, we are basically a CTC sort 00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:18.739 of a segment that we cater to, the market that 00:41:18.739 --> 00:41:22.219 we cater to. And so we don't have that sort of 00:41:22.219 --> 00:41:26.159 quality demands as in, say, Darjeeling or Mediasat. 00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:30.780 So that's a difference there. And your own palate 00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:34.340 in the last 30 -40 years of tasting, what is 00:41:34.340 --> 00:41:37.460 it that you like and what is it that you intensely 00:41:37.460 --> 00:41:41.980 dislike? Well, what I like about it is that tasting 00:41:41.980 --> 00:41:43.820 a good tea is always a wonderful experience. 00:41:44.420 --> 00:41:48.840 In the sense that the flavor that you get out 00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.719 of tasting a good tea or a good coffee is something 00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:54.679 very unique. It's like tasting good wine. It's 00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:57.320 something very, very different. And you're very 00:41:57.320 --> 00:41:59.440 appreciative of the fact that you're able to 00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:01.780 identify from where this tea came from, which 00:42:01.780 --> 00:42:07.619 of the estates it comes from. Yes, it has a different 00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:11.960 sort of a taste. It has a different sort of a 00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:13.980 character, which is not called in other estates. 00:42:14.260 --> 00:42:16.659 So you're able to, that's when you are able to 00:42:16.659 --> 00:42:18.940 say that, yes, this is the estate because it's 00:42:18.940 --> 00:42:20.860 in a high elevation. It produces this sort of 00:42:20.860 --> 00:42:23.920 a tea. And you're able to come to some sort of 00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:29.739 a concrete sort of judgment on the type of quality 00:42:29.739 --> 00:42:32.159 that a particular estate produces. That's when 00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:36.400 you know that you're good enough to... to qualify 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:38.980 as someone who knows something about tea. So 00:42:38.980 --> 00:42:41.800 that's a good part of tea. The bad part is that 00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:44.300 you have to go very often get your teeth cleaned 00:42:44.300 --> 00:42:46.860 because you stain your teeth a lot with the tea 00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:51.619 tasting. That's one thing. Oh, so that's a fairly 00:42:51.619 --> 00:42:55.260 regular practice to have your teeth... You know 00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:57.420 what I'm saying? It stains your teeth. Often 00:42:57.420 --> 00:43:01.460 what happens is people think that you're a smoker. 00:43:01.699 --> 00:43:04.420 I used to smoke, but I don't smoke anymore. But 00:43:04.420 --> 00:43:06.699 when you're tasting, It does stain your tea. 00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:12.960 So you do have this as an issue. That was 20 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:18.079 minutes of wonderful education. Ramesh, thank 00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:20.960 you, because I think it was a wonderful way of 00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:23.519 understanding what exactly is involved in tasting. 00:43:23.659 --> 00:43:26.039 Because we see it from the outside, but to have 00:43:26.039 --> 00:43:28.820 an insider view and get to know exactly what 00:43:28.820 --> 00:43:31.659 went through the process is fascinating. You 00:43:31.659 --> 00:43:33.900 mentioned briefly that there's a difference between 00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:36.679 coffee tasting and tea tasting. Do you want to 00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:41.420 expand on that? Yeah, basically coffee comes 00:43:41.420 --> 00:43:45.260 from the main two types of coffee that we grow 00:43:45.260 --> 00:43:47.880 are the arabicas and the robustas. And arabicas 00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.699 are basically the higher grown arabicas and the 00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:53.900 robustas are grown at lower elevations. Robustas 00:43:53.900 --> 00:43:59.360 are coffees that basically offer, which are just 00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:02.940 drunk. by people who like a strong cup of coffee 00:44:02.940 --> 00:44:06.360 without much flavor. Arabicas have more sort 00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:10.219 of flavor, more flavors. And in Arabica, you 00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:13.500 have astringency, you have better acidity in 00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:16.639 the Arabicas on your palate as compared to the 00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:21.260 Robustas. So in coffee tasting, you have to, 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:23.980 again, nosing is very, very important because 00:44:23.980 --> 00:44:26.119 there's a tendency for the coffee bean to get 00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:28.599 fermented. It is only in the nose that you're 00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:31.360 able to actually make whether there's a hint 00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:33.719 of fermentation or fermentation that has taken 00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.699 place in your coffee. That could, okay. That 00:44:37.699 --> 00:44:42.519 could lend a more undesirable taint to the coffee. 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:46.159 So that's one of the things that you find in... 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:48.760 Couple of questions, Ramesh. I think you can 00:44:48.760 --> 00:44:52.559 see it. What's the difference between Indian 00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:55.460 chai and green teas? Is the base leaf the same? 00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:58.900 Well, the base leaf is the same. Indian chai... 00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:01.880 is basically black tea. And what you find in 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:05.119 green tea is actually also the same leaf, but 00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:07.539 it's a different process of manufacture. Green 00:45:07.539 --> 00:45:11.820 tea is basically a process where there is direct 00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:15.679 firing of the leaf after rolling. There is no 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:17.800 fermentation process, and it just goes directly 00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:20.940 either steamed or fired, and the tea is made. 00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:25.239 Whereas in Indian chai or black tea, as we know 00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:27.820 it, there is a process of fermentation and then 00:45:27.820 --> 00:45:30.900 firing. That's where the difference comes. Okay, 00:45:30.940 --> 00:45:34.679 great. And do you have to sort of clear your 00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:38.400 palate or you can just move from one cup to the 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:42.980 other? How does it work? Actually, before you 00:45:42.980 --> 00:45:45.320 start, you clean your palate and then you keep 00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:48.280 tasting. You don't have to pre -try. You don't 00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:52.280 do it intermittently. Okay, great. So I think 00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.619 from Papua New Guinea, you then moved to Laos, 00:45:55.699 --> 00:45:58.590 which you said was another... Amazing experience. 00:45:58.630 --> 00:46:02.469 So why don't you tell us about that? Yeah, actually, 00:46:02.610 --> 00:46:08.210 yes. Laos is a wonderful country. It's a landlocked 00:46:08.210 --> 00:46:10.750 country, which has the Mekong River flowing through 00:46:10.750 --> 00:46:18.150 it. And it's in the neighborhood of Vietnam and 00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:22.250 Cambodia, part of the old, what they called French 00:46:22.250 --> 00:46:26.500 Indochina. A small country, a communist. It's 00:46:26.500 --> 00:46:30.380 currently, it is a seclusive communist country 00:46:30.380 --> 00:46:34.820 where they still, almost very similar to North 00:46:34.820 --> 00:46:39.639 Korea in their functioning. And they are a country 00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:42.980 that has got, they have got enormous, again, 00:46:43.059 --> 00:46:45.440 a country that's got enormous menu resources, 00:46:45.820 --> 00:46:47.760 country which has got a lot of natural resources 00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:50.280 and are currently known as the battery of the 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.599 East because they have produced a lot of electricity 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:57.719 from hydroelectricity. hydroelectric plants on 00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:03.500 the Mekong. So, I was, I worked to the Dirla 00:47:03.500 --> 00:47:06.780 group, the Aditya Birla group in Laos. I was 00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:10.420 heading a green field project in Laos, which 00:47:10.420 --> 00:47:15.460 was involved in planting genetically modified 00:47:15.460 --> 00:47:21.599 eucalyptus in order to raise eucalyptus for extraction 00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:26.980 of alpha cellulose in order to make. Pulp. Arikar 00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:29.019 Biller Group are the world's largest producers 00:47:29.019 --> 00:47:32.280 of pulp and fiber. That is used in the manufacture 00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:35.559 of viscose fiber. As you know, viscose is used 00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:39.980 in shirts and dress material and stuff like that. 00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:42.739 So they're putting out this huge plantation of 00:47:42.739 --> 00:47:48.940 50 ,000 hectares in Laos. And I was, they asked 00:47:48.940 --> 00:47:50.639 me whether I would be interested in heading this 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.780 project. And I was given the opportunity to do 00:47:53.780 --> 00:47:58.280 that. And I joined them and was there for about 00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:01.739 three years, did the project. And it was a different 00:48:01.739 --> 00:48:03.599 experience altogether. Nothing to do with tea 00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:05.780 or coffee, but that's where I had a great experience 00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:09.420 as far as forestry went. Laos was the most bombed 00:48:09.420 --> 00:48:12.179 country in the world. During the Vietnam War, 00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:16.139 the Ho Chi Minh Trail ran through Laos. The North 00:48:16.139 --> 00:48:20.320 Vietnamese, the canny North Vietnamese fighters 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:24.159 had a trail which ran through. North Vietnam. 00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.980 McNamara, who was their Secretary of War at that 00:48:27.980 --> 00:48:30.800 time, had run a parallel across the 17th parallel 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:33.099 and said, no North Vietnamese will ever cross 00:48:33.099 --> 00:48:35.480 this. And he had barricaded the whole place, 00:48:35.539 --> 00:48:38.019 dug trenches, mined the whole place. But yet 00:48:38.019 --> 00:48:39.659 they found that the North Vietnamese were taking 00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:42.659 a detour through Laos and coming back into South 00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:45.559 Vietnam and playing have a good day with the 00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:48.019 Americans as well as the South Vietnamese. So 00:48:48.019 --> 00:48:51.659 the Americans were bombing and bombed the daylight 00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:56.480 side of Laos. Laos. And they did that from various 00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:59.780 air bases that they had on the island near Russia 00:48:59.780 --> 00:49:04.219 and elsewhere. So the amount of armament that 00:49:04.219 --> 00:49:08.199 they dropped over Laos was huge. And at one time, 00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.460 every nine minutes, one bombing sortie was going 00:49:12.460 --> 00:49:15.900 to Laos. So it was probably the most, it was 00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:17.699 probably one of the most bombed countries in 00:49:17.699 --> 00:49:21.139 the world. So once all this was over and 30 years 00:49:21.139 --> 00:49:23.809 had passed, was down the line. The government 00:49:23.809 --> 00:49:27.949 of Laos was very keen in getting fresh investments. 00:49:29.809 --> 00:49:33.489 And the Adhika Villa group were keen on finding 00:49:33.489 --> 00:49:36.949 land to grow their plantations. So they were 00:49:36.949 --> 00:49:39.829 giving us, this project was started off, and 00:49:39.829 --> 00:49:43.809 we were involved in finding new land to plant 00:49:43.809 --> 00:49:47.929 these plantations. So we had a massive multi 00:49:47.929 --> 00:49:51.300 -million plant nursery that was put up. very 00:49:51.300 --> 00:49:54.480 close to the Thai border, in a place called Savannakhet, 00:49:54.579 --> 00:49:56.739 and we were supplying plants to various parks 00:49:56.739 --> 00:49:59.139 where government -applied laws were given us 00:49:59.139 --> 00:50:01.360 land. One of the problems that we were finding 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.559 was that the land that was being given to us 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.559 was contaminated land. It was contaminated by 00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:12.619 UXOs, unexploded ordnance. Now, ordnance was 00:50:12.619 --> 00:50:15.179 basically in the form of cluster bomblets. When 00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:17.960 a cluster bomb is let loose, it releases what 00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:20.710 they call bomblets. Since bomb bits are this 00:50:20.710 --> 00:50:23.889 size and they fall, there are numerous which 00:50:23.889 --> 00:50:26.130 are spread all over the place. They may not explode 00:50:26.130 --> 00:50:28.670 then, a lot of them explode then, but a lot of 00:50:28.670 --> 00:50:31.269 them explode even later after coming in contact, 00:50:31.489 --> 00:50:35.489 coming in either animals or humans, leading to, 00:50:35.570 --> 00:50:38.710 you know, terrible injuries to people and often 00:50:38.710 --> 00:50:41.610 death. So we were finding that this is one of 00:50:41.610 --> 00:50:44.750 the major problems that we had and we had to 00:50:44.750 --> 00:50:47.309 actually do the clearing of this land in a very 00:50:47.309 --> 00:50:50.070 cautious manner and had to actually make sure 00:50:50.070 --> 00:50:53.250 that the people were protected and we planted 00:50:53.250 --> 00:50:56.530 out. By the time I left from there, we had planted 00:50:56.530 --> 00:50:59.929 nearly about 20 ,000 hectares of land. Subsequently, 00:50:59.929 --> 00:51:05.829 I'm told that the project was the December state 00:51:05.829 --> 00:51:08.670 and sold the project to some of the Chinese in 00:51:08.670 --> 00:51:11.090 West as the border of the store. But nevertheless, 00:51:11.469 --> 00:51:14.309 Laos was a wonderful country, beautiful place 00:51:14.309 --> 00:51:18.130 and worth a visit if told you ever to go that 00:51:18.130 --> 00:51:22.880 side. Wonderful country. Okay. Wow. That's quite 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:27.179 a life, Ramesh. How would you, we've almost spent 00:51:27.179 --> 00:51:29.639 an hour, so what I would like to know is, how 00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:32.079 is it that you have, what is it that you would 00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:35.699 like to tell young people who want to take the 00:51:35.699 --> 00:51:37.760 beaten track or what is it that they need to 00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:40.300 be prepared for if they're looking for a career 00:51:40.300 --> 00:51:44.469 in plantations and forestry? Well, Plantations 00:51:44.469 --> 00:51:47.130 and forestry is very rewarding if you are interested, 00:51:47.389 --> 00:51:50.230 if you are keen on the outdoors, if you're keen 00:51:50.230 --> 00:51:54.750 on making sure that you are contributing to the 00:51:54.750 --> 00:52:01.010 environment. It's an exceedingly rewarding experience 00:52:01.010 --> 00:52:05.510 to contribute to making sure that your carbon 00:52:05.510 --> 00:52:08.849 footprint is being cut down by, you know, instead 00:52:08.849 --> 00:52:11.050 of adding to the carbon footprint that we all 00:52:11.050 --> 00:52:13.530 do in most other professions. you're reducing 00:52:13.530 --> 00:52:16.590 it in places like the plantations. And also, 00:52:16.650 --> 00:52:19.409 you'd have endless cups of tea and coffee to 00:52:19.409 --> 00:52:22.949 taste. It's a great experience. Okay, I think 00:52:22.949 --> 00:52:25.769 the tasting, there's one last question, which 00:52:25.769 --> 00:52:29.349 the question is, is there something you are not 00:52:29.349 --> 00:52:32.230 allowed to eat and drink if you're a tea taster 00:52:32.230 --> 00:52:37.030 from Pearl Tewari? Well, if you want to be a 00:52:37.030 --> 00:52:40.250 taster, it's preferred that you don't smoke. 00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:45.000 And you must have a good palate. So it's better 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.059 that excessive consumption of alcohol also would 00:52:49.059 --> 00:52:54.219 go a long way. So those would be the two. But 00:52:54.219 --> 00:52:58.539 otherwise, everything else is quite normal. Great. 00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:02.519 Thank you so much, Ramesh. Any concluding thoughts? 00:53:02.619 --> 00:53:04.800 Anything that you wish to leave the listeners 00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:09.110 with? Well, all I can say is, now you know. that 00:53:09.110 --> 00:53:11.429 that first cup of coffee or tea that you have 00:53:11.429 --> 00:53:14.170 in the morning, there's a lot of hard work that 00:53:14.170 --> 00:53:18.070 goes into it. And there's a lot of experience 00:53:18.070 --> 00:53:21.849 from a large number of people working in the 00:53:21.849 --> 00:53:24.030 plantations who go into making that. Bring it. 00:53:25.909 --> 00:53:30.110 Cheers. Thank you for taking the time. It's been 00:53:30.110 --> 00:53:32.469 such a wonderful session listening to you and 00:53:32.469 --> 00:53:34.750 getting to know more of this. Thank you for your 00:53:34.750 --> 00:53:37.610 time, Ramesh. And thank you for such. Such a 00:53:37.610 --> 00:53:40.349 vivid illustration of what life is like on a 00:53:40.349 --> 00:53:42.369 plantation and what is it that you've got to 00:53:42.369 --> 00:53:44.889 be prepared for if you want to take up a career 00:53:44.889 --> 00:53:49.389 in this field. Thank you. My pleasure entirely, 00:53:49.489 --> 00:53:52.090 Renu. Thank you for having me on the show. Wonderful. 00:53:52.289 --> 00:53:56.750 Thank you. That was Ramesh Vasudevan. Another 00:53:56.750 --> 00:53:59.849 different profession, that of tea tasting and 00:53:59.849 --> 00:54:03.880 across countries. and in Laos and in Papua New 00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:05.940 Guinea, apart from Harrison's Malayalam, which 00:54:05.940 --> 00:54:10.079 is where he started off. This was another wonderful 00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:14.159 journey and we'll bring more such journeys. Please 00:54:14.159 --> 00:54:18.619 remember to subscribe. And like I said, next 00:54:18.619 --> 00:54:22.940 time, subscribe now, hit the bell icon. And thank 00:54:22.940 --> 00:54:26.280 you to my entire team who's been helping me with 00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:29.800 this through Deepa and LPS Jayachandran for all 00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:32.179 the work that they do. week after week thank 00:54:32.179 --> 00:54:33.519 you until next time