WEBVTT

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I remember one thing very fondly. I was 10 years

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old and I remember my dad pulling me towards

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the sofa. My mother was next to him and he said,

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see, we realize that you are naturally gifted

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with music and we'd like to encourage you to

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the extent that if you want to stop everything

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else and get into music, we are willing to do

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that. Coming from a middle -income family, we

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weren't exactly super rich, but I mean, I'm just

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saying I was the only child. for a long, long

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time at the age of 10 that you can do whatever

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you want. You want to get into something like

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music. None of them. And they said, look, we

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don't have any background music. So we really

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don't know how to guide you. But we are willing

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to do the research along with you. So if you

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want, we can proceed right away and see. Welcome

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to another session of My First Job. the podcast

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we've navigated through 25 episodes each one

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a different persona a different character a different

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career and today is no different we have a wonderful

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melodious person waiting in the wings surajit

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guha who pursued a career in sales and training

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and banking has for the last decade devoted himself

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to professional singing. He regals audiences

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across the globe on stage. That has become his

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current career. But getting to that has been

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a different set of circumstances altogether.

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So let's bring Surajit on stage and talk to him

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about how his career evolved. Hi Surajit, such

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a pleasure to have you on the show. Atma namaste.

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Howdy. Yeah, it's great to see you because I've

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normally seen you on stage and clapped from the

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audience while listening to one of those lovely

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hymns, the numbers that you belted out with such

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ease. Just tell me, is there routine that you

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have before you come on stage? What is it that

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you're doing just before you get there? Few moments

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of madness, I would imagine. Always at those

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anxious moments before you begin. Nothing to

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do with stage fright. More to do with being prepared

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for your sound checks and seeing that things

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are put up and ensuring that only people who

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I depend upon for helping me set up are around

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and not people who will take my mind off what's

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about to happen. Just as you mentioned that,

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you know, it's the same thing is equally relevant

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after the program gets over. It's usually quite

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hellish because you have to, you know, pick up

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the broken pieces. You've got to, you know, get

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your gear together and you always don't have

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your assistant around. So, you know, these are

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the things. But it's always highly energizing

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kind of atmosphere. You have an unusual bond

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in Kolkata, but has lived in Chennai most of

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your life. So how has it been with your native

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place? I mean, a lot of us do have careers and

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lives which are different. But in your case,

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how has the transition been and have you always

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maintained close connect with Kolkata? Yes, of

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course. I mean, you see, the first six years

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of my life, I was born in November 1963. In a

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city which was very, very traditional and very

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exciting, you know, I remember my childhood memories

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are very, very vivid, unlike many. I remember

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things as early as when I was about a couple

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of years old or even earlier. Impressions, incidents.

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So that's why I think even though I moved fairly

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early in life from Kolkata because my father's,

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you know, career took him outside. And Kolkata

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was, you know, at that point of time, going through

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some difficult times, you know, with the Nuts

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Light movement and all that kind of thing. And

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so we got out of Kolkata. And after a brief stint

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my father had in Delhi to learn up his new job,

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he proceeded to Chennai and erstwhile Madras.

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I still consider myself to be from Madras rather

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than from Chennai. I relate to Madras because

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I came in at... At a time when Madras was very

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quiet, very beautiful, and I found that people

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were so helpful and nice. And even till today,

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I think it's one of the most peaceful places

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to live in, in this country. And although I love

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Kolkata with all my heart and I look forward

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to, you know, visits there because I am a collector

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of music and I have been so from a very early

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age. good food Bengali food still finds a really

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large part in my heart but and nevertheless Chennai

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or Madras is where I consider to be my home I

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have a lot of love for Madras and I will not

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have anybody say anything ill about Madras that's

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true I mean Chennai is one place Madras is one

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place that really grows on you it's not one of

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those places that you know, instantly seems to,

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because of the climate, it's not one of those

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places that instantly seems to find favor, unlike

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a Bangalore or some of the other places in India.

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But, so what were the things that, you know,

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sort of defined you early on? You went to school,

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singing was always a part of it. How did it recede?

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What were the things that happened? I started

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singing at the age of two and a half. Okay. And

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even when I was two and a half, they tried to

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take me to music school and they rejected me

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saying that, you know, you don't get to sing

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before the age of, if you don't get your voice

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before the age of five. And I was very disappointed.

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So when I was leading the premises, the headmistress

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of that rather reputed school in Kolkata at that

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point of time, it was called Shurotit. She called

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me back and said, Why don't you sing a song for

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me, little one? And I sang a cover version of

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Rabindra Sangeet's singer. And she was so impressed

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that she took me in to the school immediately.

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And the only thing is, I found it very boring

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to sit with our five -year -olds because I felt

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that they were very kiddish songs. I would run

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away, you know, run off to... The higher classes,

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you know, classes where teenagers were, and I

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would sit listening to their classical music,

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and I had to be dragged back and said, this is

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an audio class. So anyway, that was a little

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part of Kolkata, where I got my grooming into

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music. And of course, my parents could sing,

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my grandmothers could sing very well. None of

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them are professional, but they were very encouraging.

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And unlike many other kids who had to be cajoled,

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to bring out their talent, showcase their talents

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in front of friends and family. I had to be asked

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to stop because I was so much into music. I love

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music so much that I didn't require any great

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encouragement to start off. I had a great set

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of parents who encouraged me right through to

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follow my heart, whatever be my interest. That

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is actually one of the most important things

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that you find, that parents who are willing to

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let their children experiment and not put constraints

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on them or burden them with a certain set of

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expectations. The children invariably seem to

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do a lot better when they are allowed to bloom

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and take risks. Yeah, experiment. I mean, whether

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they find worldly success or not, that's a different

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story. But I think they're happier. I mean, exactly.

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Because my parents were so, you know, I'm not

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saying that they were lenient or that I was spoiled.

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Not at all. They never spoiled me. But, you know,

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they were very broad -minded. Their value systems

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were very much in place. And I felt that I could

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approach them for just about anything. I never

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had the need to hide anything from them. And

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because they were so open and... And accepting,

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if I thought differently, that it encouraged

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me a lot. And I'm blessed that I've had that

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kind of a family. Not just my parents, even my

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grandparents from both sides were extremely,

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you know, open -minded and fostered, you know,

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whatever interests you had in mind, encouraged.

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So that went a long way, I think, giving me kind

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of solace where the rest of society was probably...

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far more exacting about what you should become.

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I mean, they would ask me, so do you want to

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become an engineer like your father or get into

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railways like both your grandparents? And I would

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say as early as the age of four, are you kidding

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me? I want to become a pilot. I want to sing.

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I mean, those two things were very much in my

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mind from a very early age. And I didn't care

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what other people, my relatives thought, what

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my parents, family, friends thought of my career.

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It never mattered to me because I knew that my

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parents were there to back me up. I had a mind

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of my own. So the singing continued right through

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school and college? You were part of every single...

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Absolutely. Not only were there opportunities

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given to me by the school and college, but also...

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Very early, when I came to Chennai, I discovered

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route to sing publicly quite often. And that

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was in All India Radio Madras. Okay. Yeah. So

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again, through school. School was which introduced

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me to radio station in Madras. And I found that

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the children's hour was a place I could walk

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in every Saturday. So almost virtually every

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month I would walk in with my guitar. I learned

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the guitar a little bit and I can't wait to save

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my life. Now I think it must have been horrendous,

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but that was my go -to place. I would walk into

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all of the radio and I would sing a few songs

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and come out. Up with singing began as early

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as the age of eight. And then television at,

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you know, Doodh Darshan Kendra, Mod Mod World

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was my first break in television. Did it at some

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point, did you make a rational choice and then

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say, I need to do something? Singing always,

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breaking into the profession is always a difficult

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task. No, you're right. Was that? I remember

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one thing very fondly. I was 10 years old and

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I remember my dad pulling me towards the sofa,

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living room, and my mother was next to him. And

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he said, see, we realize that you are naturally

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gifted with music and we'd like to encourage

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you. To the extent that if you want to stop everything

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else and get into music, we are willing to do

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that. Coming from a middle -income family, we

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weren't exactly super rich. But I mean, I'm just

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saying I was the only child for a long, long

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time, their only child at the age of 10 that

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you can do whatever you want. You want to get

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into something like music. None of them. And

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they said, look, we don't have any background

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music. So we really don't know how to guide you.

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But we are willing to do the research along with

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you. So if you want, we can proceed right away

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and see. So what touched me? See, I was touched.

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At the same time, I was very foolish because

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at that part of time, I was, what can I say?

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I was immature. I didn't realize what a huge

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honor and gift had been bestowed upon me by my

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parents. Not entirely my fault also because at

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that point of time, there was no... Yeah, of

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course. There were no platforms. I mean, you

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had a Kishore Kumar who had probably left home.

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Hemant Kumar. I mean, they were legends. And

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these guys, you know, hats off to them. And I'm

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thinking that I'm talking about it not knowing

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what to do. Just imagine 25, 30 years before

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that, what guts it would have had to take to

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get out and break out of this, possibly against,

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you know, parental wishes. And here was a set

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of parents who were saying, do what you want

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and we'll help you. So I did try, we did try

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to go and get some guidance from an aunt of mine

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in Calcutta, who was the station director of

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All India Radio Calcutta. So I wanted to become

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an opera singer. But she told me that perhaps

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there is not so much good training out here in

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India at the moment. She herself was an opera

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singer. But she said that... I would rather you

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take up something like Hindustani Classical as

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a grounding. I did try that. But, you know, I

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was perhaps not so disciplined. And I wasn't

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able to pick up the interest for classical music

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as a grounding at that part of time. So what

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happened was, although I realized that music

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was always going to be a very big part of my

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life, I started thinking whether I should take

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up music as a serious hobby. And look at a career

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option later if it came along. Because I really

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didn't know how to proceed or whom to ask, how

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to groom myself further. And sitting in Madras,

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music training, I wasn't particularly interested

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in classical training. Carnatic classical, okay.

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Even less so. So I was not able to gel with that.

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And I had a, you know, a sort of... I was into

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only Western music at that point of time. Okay.

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My enthusiasm got a little bit dampened when

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I found that I couldn't get into opera singing.

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But nevertheless, I continued performing in school

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and college functions. And even when college

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got over, that was the transition time because

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you didn't know what to do. Right. On the music

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front. Because, I mean, you no longer had competitions.

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You didn't have platforms like Sadegama at that

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point of time. And so what did you do? You had...

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Then a couple of people, friends of my mother,

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they made this little music group and they started

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promoting music on a professional basis. While

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that was happening, obviously, it was not a career

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option then. It was still a hobby. So I really

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didn't know how far I could go with music as

00:15:32.620 --> 00:15:35.080
a career. So I had to look at other options.

00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:38.779
So I fell back on another passion of mine from

00:15:38.779 --> 00:15:41.799
childhood, which was flying. I wanted to become

00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:44.500
a pilot. I was passionate about it. It was not

00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:49.659
just a fantasy. I used to study and I was too,

00:15:49.779 --> 00:15:53.279
you know, I liked commercial aircrafts and I

00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.980
didn't want to get into the armed forces. Had

00:15:56.980 --> 00:16:00.000
I gone the NCC route, I'm sure I would have perhaps

00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.340
been a pilot by now. But I wanted the commercial

00:16:03.340 --> 00:16:07.019
kind of route of flying. And things were very

00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:10.820
difficult those days in India. Commercial pilots,

00:16:11.059 --> 00:16:12.620
there was only one airline, Indian Airlines.

00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.580
After some time, this Vayudh came into being.

00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:22.720
You know, there was an overdose of pilots and

00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.500
very few jobs. There were pilots waiting in the

00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:29.159
wings for years. Nevertheless, I put my head

00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.299
together a couple of times. friends from school

00:16:31.299 --> 00:16:35.059
and college. You know, during the final years

00:16:35.059 --> 00:16:37.100
of college, we decided, let's go and get a scholarship.

00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.940
And I, in fact, dropped the scholarship in terms

00:16:40.940 --> 00:16:43.559
of the interview. And I got into Madras Flying

00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:48.059
Club. And then I recall little Riley, that a

00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:49.960
friend of mine, said, Surajit, flying is strictly

00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:53.039
for the birds. A school friend of mine used to

00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:56.259
accuse me. And then I realized that, yes, in

00:16:56.259 --> 00:16:59.039
India, when flying clubs really didn't have much

00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.320
money. and you were a scholarship student, you

00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:04.500
didn't have too many options. So a friend of

00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:07.400
mine whose father was a pilot, a very dear friend

00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.720
of mine, Fazal Amir Shah, his father, Captain

00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:13.980
K. Shah, and my father were great friends, and

00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:17.539
they said, you know, you should go to Texas,

00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.799
you should do your flying and all that. So we

00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.160
did a little bit of research on that, and then

00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.599
finally I had to take a rain check because I

00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.759
didn't have the means of pursuing such a... an

00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:32.579
expensive profession, which had very little guarantees

00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:36.380
if you came back to India. So real dread. And

00:17:36.380 --> 00:17:41.680
see, now my college was over. I was one year

00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:44.619
into flying and I just decided that it's not

00:17:44.619 --> 00:17:47.700
working out. The scholarship is also not leading

00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:50.039
me anywhere. I'm not getting my flying hours

00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.059
here. I don't have the means to fly overseas.

00:17:53.259 --> 00:17:56.160
But you learned to fly for a year. For one year,

00:17:56.180 --> 00:18:00.980
you went with it. Okay. I'll just, just a couple

00:18:00.980 --> 00:18:04.220
of comments which have come up because I think

00:18:04.220 --> 00:18:06.539
during the, you can see it. I think it's more

00:18:06.539 --> 00:18:09.380
of a comment rather than the thing. And Morley

00:18:09.380 --> 00:18:12.319
also says that, which I think has definitely

00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.980
touched people, amazing parents, because I think

00:18:15.980 --> 00:18:18.660
just saying that would have ensured that you

00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:22.099
were far more practical about it. Rather than

00:18:22.099 --> 00:18:25.220
telling you, you couldn't have it, you shouldn't

00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:27.359
be doing it. which would have brought out the

00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.220
rebel in you. In most cases, that's the reason

00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:35.480
why. My parents were genuinely interested in

00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:40.619
seeing that I pursue my career either in flying

00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:43.200
or in music or in both because they were not

00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:46.460
opposed to either. It's just that they realized

00:18:46.460 --> 00:18:49.740
that there were stumbling blocks. They were observing

00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:53.980
things and they were supportive. I mean, so it's

00:18:53.980 --> 00:18:56.440
not as if... They said, you say, hey, we knew

00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.140
all along and we didn't want to tell you. No,

00:18:59.259 --> 00:19:02.579
not at all. I think they were as hopeful and

00:19:02.579 --> 00:19:08.039
as anticipating and as positive as I was. And

00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:10.619
it's just that naturally things came to a sort

00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:14.079
of standstill. So which led me to the next level

00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:18.220
as to what do I do? See, ultimately, you finish

00:19:18.220 --> 00:19:22.279
college. And you're heading for almost a year

00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:24.299
when you're through with college and you are

00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:26.880
now answerable to yourself with nobody else.

00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:31.339
What do you do? Right. So I was very sure about

00:19:31.339 --> 00:19:34.619
one thing. See, right through school, to give

00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:39.839
you another background, I was never into mathematics

00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.200
or sciences. I was always an art student. I know.

00:19:43.819 --> 00:19:46.299
But during school, there were very few options.

00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.359
You had to take... mathematics or sciences, and

00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.119
at the high school level, at least commerce.

00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.960
I thoroughly detested all of them, and I still

00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:02.299
do. With an A plus B, the whole squared joke

00:20:02.299 --> 00:20:07.079
is very relevant. What on earth have I learned?

00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:09.700
I mean, which is relevant. I mean, I'm sure in

00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:14.880
some weird and wonderful laboratory, all this

00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.450
may come into some news, but I... See the relevance?

00:20:19.609 --> 00:20:21.950
In some way, I was also logical in my thinking.

00:20:22.009 --> 00:20:24.690
I said, what am I doing learning algebra? What

00:20:24.690 --> 00:20:27.930
am I doing learning how to dissect frogs? I mean,

00:20:27.970 --> 00:20:30.569
this is not me, but I didn't have a chance. So

00:20:30.569 --> 00:20:33.049
they said, oh, you've joined the wrong stream.

00:20:33.650 --> 00:20:36.190
I said, then pray tell me which stream I should

00:20:36.190 --> 00:20:38.130
join. You should have joined golf. I hate that.

00:20:38.569 --> 00:20:41.269
I hate accountancy. I don't understand it. Till

00:20:41.269 --> 00:20:45.450
I finished high school, I honorably failed many

00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:48.919
times in mathematics and got a big zero. And

00:20:48.919 --> 00:20:51.960
nobody in my family chided me for it or made

00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.240
me feel small. And for that, I'm concerned. That's

00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.640
wonderful. That's actually one of the things

00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:01.019
that I think is really wrong to do. I feel depressed

00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:03.359
because I would really try. It was not that I

00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.579
would be apathetical towards things. I was serious.

00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.200
I was a serious -minded guy. And it was frustrating

00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.420
for me because I was really trying to do something.

00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.420
Everybody else was getting in and I wasn't. It's

00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:17.680
not as if I was not intelligent, but it was just

00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:21.470
that. That was not my subject. That is not what

00:21:21.470 --> 00:21:23.690
you were interested in. And then after school,

00:21:23.890 --> 00:21:26.750
and during school, I realized I was pathetic

00:21:26.750 --> 00:21:29.309
in sports. I was into music. People used to say,

00:21:29.390 --> 00:21:32.589
oh, he sings. In college, it was, oh, wow, he

00:21:32.589 --> 00:21:38.549
sings. The college that means that, which I say,

00:21:38.630 --> 00:21:40.490
thank God, I never wanted to become an English

00:21:40.490 --> 00:21:44.650
teacher. No way. I found myself enjoying three

00:21:44.650 --> 00:21:47.259
years that I had. College gave me the freedom

00:21:47.259 --> 00:21:50.559
of doing something where I felt that I was finally

00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.519
finding my feet. Even today, whatever I've learned

00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.460
in phonetics, crystal clear. I mean, I have a

00:21:56.460 --> 00:21:59.500
lot of admiration for my teacher because I felt

00:21:59.500 --> 00:22:02.420
I was so grateful that I was in an environment

00:22:02.420 --> 00:22:04.660
which I could relate to. Eventually got a first

00:22:04.660 --> 00:22:07.859
class distinction in college and I was so happy

00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.559
being part of college. And that gave me a lot

00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:13.240
of self -confidence, which I guess I didn't have

00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:15.480
in school, which... which was nobody's fault,

00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:17.599
but it was just their direction at that point.

00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:21.000
The whole process of exploration, which is what

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:23.019
you've outlined so brilliantly, which is whether

00:22:23.019 --> 00:22:25.740
it was flying or whether it's understanding very

00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:28.400
clearly that these subjects are great, but they're

00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:30.980
not for me. They're not. What is it that, yeah,

00:22:31.099 --> 00:22:33.920
and what is it that I want to do? So how did

00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.519
you finally get into training or as one of...

00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.519
PCE, anything. So like now it went back to the

00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:44.079
thing as to what do I do after college? Okay.

00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:50.220
MA literature from us. MBA, which was becoming

00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:55.000
the new darling. Sorry. IT, which was again becoming

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.480
the new darling. All these were, you know, options

00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:01.160
which were coveted, which were respected, which

00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:03.779
was finding a lot of respect. And people expected

00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:06.099
you to do that. Not by parents, but I'm just

00:23:06.099 --> 00:23:09.200
saying society at large. Friends, peers, everybody.

00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:15.470
Your teachers. Some of... You know, so it was

00:23:15.470 --> 00:23:17.670
then becoming a little difficult for me to find

00:23:17.670 --> 00:23:20.490
out as to what do I do? Do I do higher education?

00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:25.329
Then I said, enough of beating myself up doing

00:23:25.329 --> 00:23:28.369
things which I don't want to do. So let me try

00:23:28.369 --> 00:23:31.630
and get a job. Now, that was easier said than

00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:35.869
done because even those days, it was not adequate

00:23:35.869 --> 00:23:38.930
if you just had a graduation in order to get

00:23:38.930 --> 00:23:41.589
a job. So I looked at the kind of jobs which

00:23:41.589 --> 00:23:44.980
would accept me. And I looked at sales. I had

00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:48.880
no idea what it would entail. I had no idea whether

00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:53.460
I would fit in. But I did know that I was told

00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:58.059
that you needed to have reasonably good communication

00:23:58.059 --> 00:24:02.980
skills. What that breakup was, I had no idea

00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:08.359
till I got in. You know, what I found, what I

00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:13.509
discovered was that it was a welcome. entry into

00:24:13.509 --> 00:24:16.069
something which gave me a lot of confidence.

00:24:16.890 --> 00:24:19.750
I was an introvert when I was a kid because I

00:24:19.750 --> 00:24:22.750
was the only child and I was not very sure of

00:24:22.750 --> 00:24:26.529
how to mingle with everybody else. I was a perfectionist.

00:24:26.549 --> 00:24:30.430
I was creative. I was idealistic. I still am,

00:24:30.450 --> 00:24:34.549
I think. Traditional by nature and yet rebellious,

00:24:34.549 --> 00:24:36.829
you know, when my value systems are at stake.

00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:40.430
So I was all of this and I still am. I think

00:24:40.430 --> 00:24:47.109
all these values, all these, you know, your basic

00:24:47.109 --> 00:24:49.769
nature seldom changes. You just learn how to

00:24:49.769 --> 00:24:52.529
cope with it better as you go along, sometimes.

00:24:53.289 --> 00:24:59.490
But then in sales, I found that I was given an

00:24:59.490 --> 00:25:02.269
opportunity to come out of my shell. I was meeting

00:25:02.269 --> 00:25:05.269
customers. I had some targets. I had to meet

00:25:05.269 --> 00:25:11.119
people. I had to, you know, go across and talk

00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:13.960
to many people and see how they accepted me.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.720
And I found, strangely enough, that I was doing

00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.920
rather well in that. And I'm not saying that

00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:23.619
there weren't better performers. Of course there

00:25:23.619 --> 00:25:26.819
were. But I felt that this was a very important

00:25:26.819 --> 00:25:32.059
step for me to find my feet, get self -confidence.

00:25:32.500 --> 00:25:35.539
And I'm eternally grateful to the sales career

00:25:35.539 --> 00:25:40.059
for having given me that kind of insight. So

00:25:40.059 --> 00:25:42.359
for a couple of years, I worked with a wonderful

00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.799
company, very respected company at that point

00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:50.700
of time called Gestetner. And I still have some

00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:54.079
very, very dear friends and colleagues from my

00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:57.279
very first job who I'm in touch with every day.

00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:01.880
So that gave me a... Engineering products? Gestetner

00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:06.400
is into... They were into duplicating machines.

00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.819
Okay, okay. you know, cycle styling machines.

00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:15.299
So that was their forte then. And they were the

00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:19.619
first manufacturer and the best in their field

00:26:19.619 --> 00:26:23.140
with duplicators. But of course, it phased out.

00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:26.940
And I also was, you know, I realized that initially,

00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:30.220
although it was, it gave me a, what I'm very

00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:34.180
grateful for all my job, to all my jobs is that

00:26:34.180 --> 00:26:38.980
however long or short. I've had as a stint in

00:26:38.980 --> 00:26:42.779
each of them. The experiences have been really

00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:44.880
wonderful. I mean, it's something I would treasure.

00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:47.579
And I have a lot of takeaways. So Gestetna, I

00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:49.980
was with them for a couple of years. Then I began

00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:52.180
to realize that, you know, the company also was

00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:55.299
losing ground because photocopiers were coming

00:26:55.299 --> 00:26:59.200
into the market. And we were being eased out,

00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:02.539
you know, slowly, but very slowly. And then,

00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:08.220
wham, suddenly I got this opportunity. ANZ Bank

00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:13.119
in Australia was getting into a partnership with

00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:17.140
a cultural exchange organization, usually meant

00:27:17.140 --> 00:27:19.119
for youngsters, you know, in school, call it

00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:22.819
American Field Service or AFS. And they did a

00:27:22.819 --> 00:27:24.799
partnership and they wanted to bring their own

00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:27.980
employees from Greenlees, India, which they had

00:27:27.980 --> 00:27:35.180
just acquired, to work in Australia in ANZ Bank.

00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:40.160
have an exposure of a different country and live

00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.900
with Aussie families. They first threw this open

00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:48.440
to, you know, employees of Green Days. But I

00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:51.140
don't think it went very well with the employees

00:27:51.140 --> 00:27:52.960
because they wanted their own little independence

00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:55.779
and all that. So when the sea was almost falling

00:27:55.779 --> 00:27:59.420
through, then ANZ and AFS came to an understanding

00:27:59.420 --> 00:28:01.839
and they said, look, let's throw it open to the

00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:05.119
Indian public. And I got a wind of it. And I

00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:09.190
was, one of the lucky four, very lucky four,

00:28:09.349 --> 00:28:12.750
to be selected with a non -banking background.

00:28:14.369 --> 00:28:16.329
There's another very dear friend of mine called

00:28:16.329 --> 00:28:20.549
Ramesh Raja. Two of us from Madras who were selected.

00:28:20.950 --> 00:28:25.309
One from Calcutta, Vishal Suri, and Rajiv from

00:28:25.309 --> 00:28:28.730
Delhi. Four of us. We went to Australia and the

00:28:28.730 --> 00:28:33.450
deal was that we would work with various departments

00:28:33.450 --> 00:28:36.500
of the bank. We would be paid a small stipend.

00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:39.740
And we would live with Aussie families. We would

00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:43.759
be, everything would be sponsored. Our to and

00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:47.279
fro travel, our travel within Melbourne. And,

00:28:47.380 --> 00:28:51.220
oh my God. You know, you heard of Yudhishthir.

00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:58.759
His feet never left the ground. I felt like Yudhishthir.

00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:02.960
More than the year, even when I came back to

00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.339
India after the year, because there was no strings

00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:07.880
attached. We weren't supposed to get any jobs.

00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:09.680
They said, see, we'll give you this opportunity,

00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:12.779
but you come back and you fend for yourself.

00:29:13.400 --> 00:29:17.200
What did happen was the, it was a fabulous experience.

00:29:17.900 --> 00:29:20.700
Not just the fact that we had a wonderful time,

00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:25.480
we were getting to see another culture, but it

00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:28.539
was a great learning experience, you know, because

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:32.119
We had seen Indian culture, work culture, and

00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:34.019
we got back to the Indian work culture again.

00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:39.759
And we realized how different the Australian

00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:44.000
culture was in terms of work and even with people.

00:29:44.140 --> 00:29:46.259
They were very casual. They were very casual,

00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:49.680
very informal. At the same time, it's not as

00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:51.660
if work didn't get done. Of course, it got done.

00:29:52.059 --> 00:29:55.200
The reporting, it was very, very serious about

00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.299
that. Can you imagine asking your boss's boss,

00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:03.819
Bernie, you're going up to the cafeteria. Why

00:30:03.819 --> 00:30:06.160
don't you give me a sandwich? Imagine your office

00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:10.079
peon telling that. And here in Australia, he

00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:12.900
was an office assistant. Bernie, please get me

00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:15.779
a sandwich. Oh, Bernie. And he was a senior manager

00:30:15.779 --> 00:30:18.539
there. About four levels more than this office

00:30:18.539 --> 00:30:21.180
assistant. And he would smile and get everybody,

00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:24.059
you know, get a big token and come back and ask.

00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:28.500
And, you know. And all the change. This was something

00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:32.079
which, this was just not meant for me because

00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:35.119
I was in an exchange, you know, visitor and they

00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:36.640
were giving me any special treatment. This is

00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:39.660
what I can write through. Right. So that was

00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:43.619
something which I found very strange and wonderful.

00:30:43.700 --> 00:30:47.519
In fact, I felt that, you know, it made it so

00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:51.680
much easier to have that human equation. And,

00:30:51.819 --> 00:30:55.079
you know, you would go around, you know, when

00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:57.259
you were traveling by tram in Australia, you

00:30:57.259 --> 00:31:00.420
would find a guy in this dungarees or overalls,

00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:03.440
obviously a painter or some kind of worker. He

00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.059
would be sitting next to somebody who obviously

00:31:06.059 --> 00:31:09.299
looked like top management because the top management,

00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:12.000
they take public transport. They don't always

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.259
take their cars to work. They would be animatedly

00:31:15.259 --> 00:31:17.740
talking about some religion or politics or something

00:31:17.740 --> 00:31:20.259
like that. And then say, all right, well, good

00:31:20.259 --> 00:31:24.299
day to you. and walk away. So I used to find

00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:31.380
this amazing. And I lost my shyness. I completely,

00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:33.640
as it was sales and marketing, gave me a little

00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:37.319
bit of courage and confidence. This just took

00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.440
away any inhibitions which I had. And I'm so

00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.259
grateful for that one year because it changed

00:31:44.259 --> 00:31:46.220
me. And I realized that when I came back to India,

00:31:46.339 --> 00:31:49.329
the things... were not going to be what it was

00:31:49.329 --> 00:31:51.769
in Australia. Well, I didn't realize that. I

00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:56.289
came back. After about three months, I dropped.

00:31:57.470 --> 00:32:04.369
But then, it was not a bitter experience. It

00:32:04.369 --> 00:32:07.029
was just different. But it gave me a lot of resilience.

00:32:07.390 --> 00:32:09.029
You know, it gave me a lot of strength of mind

00:32:09.029 --> 00:32:11.950
because I realized that I understood a different

00:32:11.950 --> 00:32:15.250
set of values there and I took the best from

00:32:15.250 --> 00:32:17.700
that culture also. And that has stayed with me.

00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:21.240
And that is so much, you know, part of who I

00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:25.359
intrinsically am, that I'm extremely grateful

00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:28.720
for that one year and the cascading effect it

00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.779
has had over my life and held me in good stead.

00:32:33.319 --> 00:32:37.559
My values and the way you treat people, fair

00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:41.960
play for something, which is very good. So that's

00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:46.039
for something. One more comment, which is basically

00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:50.519
that I think sharing your story with such honesty,

00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:54.259
because that I think is part of what makes you

00:32:54.259 --> 00:32:59.460
who you are. Now, how did you get into the training

00:32:59.460 --> 00:33:06.480
aspect of? So, fag end of my, you know, stint

00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:10.279
with Australia. Suddenly the top management.

00:33:11.230 --> 00:33:13.349
realized in Australia that we were coming back

00:33:13.349 --> 00:33:18.210
without a job. Okay. Generous enough to offer

00:33:18.210 --> 00:33:24.690
us a training position, not as a trainer, in

00:33:24.690 --> 00:33:29.829
the sense as a management trainee in Grimley's

00:33:29.829 --> 00:33:33.930
bank if we chose to join them. Okay. Which was

00:33:33.930 --> 00:33:38.130
so generous of them. And usually, you know, the

00:33:38.130 --> 00:33:41.559
IIMs, XLRI, Bajaj, These were the candidates

00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:44.559
who got into a management trainee kind of a portfolio,

00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:48.400
I mean, kind of a career with Grindley's Bank.

00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:52.980
And here we were with our respective graduation

00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:58.079
degrees walking in to an organization which was

00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:01.720
very traditional, very different from ANZ Australia,

00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:07.680
very process -oriented. And you had to mind your

00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:10.539
P's and Q's. They were wonderful people, but

00:34:10.539 --> 00:34:13.559
I mean, it was very process oriented. And so

00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:17.079
it was a culture shock once again, you know,

00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:19.260
getting into something where it was huge. I mean,

00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:21.440
we were overwhelmed. I mean, I definitely was

00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.139
overwhelmed because this was an opportunity of

00:34:24.139 --> 00:34:28.280
a lifetime. And I spent almost four years in

00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:31.039
various capacities and operations, you know,

00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:34.139
banking operations, you know, deposits department.

00:34:34.460 --> 00:34:38.230
And I was in credit cards. I was in sales. marketing

00:34:38.230 --> 00:34:41.969
there also so i spent some you know varied amount

00:34:41.969 --> 00:34:45.190
of times with ains and bank and with grinley's

00:34:45.190 --> 00:34:48.750
bank and some of the my colleagues are you know

00:34:48.750 --> 00:34:51.630
still in touch with me and wonderful people but

00:34:51.630 --> 00:34:54.630
then you know there was a part of me which kept

00:34:54.630 --> 00:34:58.389
tugging away saying that this is too process

00:34:58.389 --> 00:35:02.750
oriented for me i wasn't the right fit so even

00:35:02.750 --> 00:35:08.420
though hats off and A lot of gratitude for people

00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:11.239
who so graciously gave me a job in Wembley and

00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:15.920
the opportunity that ANZ gave me. And I'll forever

00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.960
be grateful to them. But there was a part of

00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:21.679
me which kept knowing and saying that this is

00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:24.539
not you, this is not you. And I had a friend

00:35:24.539 --> 00:35:29.559
of mine who was in NIIT. And for some reason,

00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:34.300
I was part of his, you know, colleagues, his

00:35:34.300 --> 00:35:37.559
group. And they welcomed me in. And before I

00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:43.400
could think twice, I had said yes to a job opportunity

00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:47.159
with NIIT, a brand new wing of theirs called

00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:51.820
NIS, National Institute of Sales. They were looking

00:35:51.820 --> 00:35:56.139
for people in business development. And I said,

00:35:56.179 --> 00:35:59.360
hey, this seems interesting. And by then I had

00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:03.360
come to Hobnob with middle to senior management.

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:07.679
at NIIT, a kind of window, because NIIT was also

00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.460
a very entrepreneurial kind of an organization.

00:36:10.739 --> 00:36:13.360
And, you know, a lot of their top management

00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.900
were very casual and very friendly and very open.

00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:19.639
And in the initial stages, we had a lot of access

00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:22.800
to them, which usually happens in the startup

00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:26.739
kind of an environment. I was very lucky. And

00:36:26.739 --> 00:36:31.460
so when NIS came up, I, you know, said, this

00:36:31.460 --> 00:36:34.250
seems to be something. which is very close to

00:36:34.250 --> 00:36:38.050
him. And I interviewed for them. And they said,

00:36:38.190 --> 00:36:41.929
hey, you've already had, you know, a few years

00:36:41.929 --> 00:36:45.329
of sales background. Even in your banking, you've

00:36:45.329 --> 00:36:49.530
done sales. Be it credit cards or being in deposits,

00:36:49.710 --> 00:36:53.929
you've done sales. Would you like to consider

00:36:53.929 --> 00:36:57.889
a stint in training? I said, I've never trained

00:36:57.889 --> 00:37:01.159
in my life. And I remember the bad old days in

00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:04.280
college, you know, I was so scared of even facing

00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.800
any kind of a presentation or, you know, giving

00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.519
any presentation. I was, I was stumped. I didn't

00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:13.480
know how to present myself at all. An interview

00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:19.340
like this, God forbid. So, I mean, but this,

00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.900
why don't you try? I said, all right, let me

00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:25.760
give you a shot. And I did. And for some reason,

00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:27.900
they liked me. And they said, we'll offer you

00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:32.510
a job. And there began one of my most intensive

00:37:32.510 --> 00:37:38.070
roles of learning to be a trainer. And I had

00:37:38.070 --> 00:37:41.289
the best teachers. Dr. Dhruv Nath, I remember

00:37:41.289 --> 00:37:44.730
with a lot of gratitude and affection, he headed

00:37:44.730 --> 00:37:48.710
NIS. It was his brainchild. And there were wonderful

00:37:48.710 --> 00:37:51.690
people in the training department. They honed

00:37:51.690 --> 00:37:55.130
us together. And I was so well, I mean, I found

00:37:55.130 --> 00:38:00.000
my calling in terms of a corporate, This was

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.179
the first job where my heart sank. And I was

00:38:04.179 --> 00:38:08.460
learning how to train youngsters, you know, who

00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:12.539
were first in their career, you know, who were

00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:15.619
trying out sales and marketing as a career. Because

00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:17.860
there was no course in sales and marketing. It

00:38:17.860 --> 00:38:20.639
was just that you tried your luck and if you

00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.420
were successful, you were successful. Otherwise,

00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:26.260
you got out of the job. But here was a course.

00:38:26.909 --> 00:38:31.550
So on one hand, I was training youngsters, college

00:38:31.550 --> 00:38:35.090
students, or young professionals, and then also

00:38:35.090 --> 00:38:37.789
getting into corporate training with a matter,

00:38:37.929 --> 00:38:41.449
and then into behavioral management. And that's

00:38:41.449 --> 00:38:46.070
when I realized what an incredible organization

00:38:46.070 --> 00:38:49.710
I had entered into. Not only did I have absolutely

00:38:49.710 --> 00:38:56.489
wonderful colleagues who shaped me. put up with

00:38:56.489 --> 00:39:00.889
me and who also gave me such opportunities to

00:39:00.889 --> 00:39:05.449
you know to grow that I'm incredibly grateful

00:39:05.449 --> 00:39:09.449
to NIS at which later on came NIS Sparta and

00:39:09.449 --> 00:39:13.170
I was with them for eight long years so can you

00:39:13.170 --> 00:39:16.989
tell me a couple of let's say training incidents

00:39:16.989 --> 00:39:22.769
that happened which kind of defined or you know

00:39:22.769 --> 00:39:27.519
brought you into What is it that helps people

00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:32.619
get better at what they do? See, first of all,

00:39:32.739 --> 00:39:37.159
I myself have, you know, when I realized that

00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:39.739
I was a slow learner in perhaps mathematics or

00:39:39.739 --> 00:39:44.179
sciences, that gave me a lot of, you know, understanding

00:39:44.179 --> 00:39:48.460
of what students went through, especially when

00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:50.139
they were trying to come out of their shell.

00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.059
There were people who were coming from the Northeast,

00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.929
for instance, who could. barely speak in english

00:39:55.929 --> 00:39:58.710
you know and they were very tongue -tied and

00:39:58.710 --> 00:40:02.030
there were a lot of people from all all walks

00:40:02.030 --> 00:40:05.789
of life who came in i realized not so much for

00:40:05.789 --> 00:40:08.869
a sales career but as a personality development

00:40:08.869 --> 00:40:14.150
program and a lot of students were pushed on

00:40:14.150 --> 00:40:18.590
to me because apparently although i might be

00:40:18.590 --> 00:40:21.230
otherwise an impatient guy but as far as training

00:40:21.230 --> 00:40:25.289
was concerned I was extremely patient with slow

00:40:25.289 --> 00:40:27.829
learners and because I realized that I've gone

00:40:27.829 --> 00:40:30.409
through the same experience myself so with kids

00:40:30.409 --> 00:40:33.389
gloves you know I would train them and give them

00:40:33.389 --> 00:40:36.670
opportunities there was a guy who couldn't express

00:40:36.670 --> 00:40:40.329
himself at all and I made but I realized that

00:40:40.329 --> 00:40:43.650
he was coming from a from you know the northeast

00:40:43.650 --> 00:40:49.119
and he I had a lot of exciting stories to tell.

00:40:49.539 --> 00:40:53.400
I made him give a presentation before all our

00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:58.000
faculty members, and for two hours, he held us

00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:02.019
spellbound. He was never the same. So that, you

00:41:02.019 --> 00:41:04.639
know, when I saw that it was making a difference

00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:08.179
in the lives of students, and I would get myself

00:41:08.179 --> 00:41:12.500
very deeply entrenched into student activities.

00:41:13.710 --> 00:41:17.190
to see how I could, you know, possibly get some

00:41:17.190 --> 00:41:19.730
of them to come out of their shells. And there

00:41:19.730 --> 00:41:22.849
were some very, very good students also who were,

00:41:22.949 --> 00:41:26.269
you know, intrinsically good and they were willing

00:41:26.269 --> 00:41:30.329
to, you know, go the extra mile. And together,

00:41:30.469 --> 00:41:33.809
I think we formed a community which was not just

00:41:33.809 --> 00:41:38.010
an institution. It was a family. It was very

00:41:38.010 --> 00:41:42.889
closely guarded by both the employees and the...

00:41:43.150 --> 00:41:47.570
students who are part of that community. We are

00:41:47.570 --> 00:41:51.369
very close. So we worked so closely and I think

00:41:51.369 --> 00:41:54.329
that we grew. I mean, we helped each other grow.

00:41:55.070 --> 00:41:57.769
Not only... Which is usually the case that when

00:41:57.769 --> 00:42:00.449
you're in an organization that is nurturing,

00:42:00.789 --> 00:42:04.349
everyone tends to grow. It's not just the, you

00:42:04.349 --> 00:42:06.369
know, the organization itself, but the team.

00:42:06.849 --> 00:42:09.210
And why is this so? We've got a person like,

00:42:09.329 --> 00:42:11.530
and the managing director was Rajendra Singh

00:42:11.530 --> 00:42:14.309
Power. Guy, hats off to him. I mean, I have so

00:42:14.309 --> 00:42:17.409
much of admiration and love for the gentleman.

00:42:17.750 --> 00:42:23.570
I mean, he would come to every center and address

00:42:23.570 --> 00:42:27.329
and explain to people what the I in aniety meant.

00:42:27.849 --> 00:42:30.570
And his visions, his values, you know, coming

00:42:30.570 --> 00:42:34.989
from the horse's mouth and done with so much

00:42:34.989 --> 00:42:38.389
of honesty, integrity, and simplicity. It was

00:42:38.389 --> 00:42:44.929
enduring. So, for me, That organization, its

00:42:44.929 --> 00:42:48.010
customers who were our students or even our corporate

00:42:48.010 --> 00:42:52.369
clients, it was magical for me. It was magical.

00:42:52.429 --> 00:42:55.590
I have so much of love and respect and gratitude

00:42:55.590 --> 00:42:59.210
for the kind of stint I had with them. So I was

00:42:59.210 --> 00:43:02.170
with them for eight years and I'm sure that given

00:43:02.170 --> 00:43:05.130
a chance, I would have retired with them. But

00:43:05.130 --> 00:43:09.750
then as many organizations, it happens to many

00:43:09.750 --> 00:43:12.400
organizations that... Somehow their paths changed,

00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:16.179
their focuses changed. And I was seeing that

00:43:16.179 --> 00:43:20.880
the old guard was moving away. What we stood

00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:27.019
for was no longer involved. So slowly I realized

00:43:27.019 --> 00:43:31.960
that the charm which it had, it was losing that.

00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.039
And we would eventually lose out our business

00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:39.980
entirely. And we did. And I as, well, maybe a...

00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:43.840
a few years before it actually closed shop, I

00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:48.980
did get out. And I did a short stint of, you

00:43:48.980 --> 00:43:52.019
know, training development for an organization.

00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:56.880
And that was when I got a calling from ING Life

00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.820
Insurance, which was the next years of my career.

00:44:00.420 --> 00:44:05.079
Okay. So, each one of these places, it's almost

00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:08.440
as if that there's a certain amount of providence

00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:13.590
where, Just when you sort of got across at one

00:44:13.590 --> 00:44:16.329
point and then you were at a lose in trying to

00:44:16.329 --> 00:44:19.670
figure out what exactly needed to be done, a

00:44:19.670 --> 00:44:22.070
certain thing fell into, it's maybe in the network.

00:44:22.130 --> 00:44:24.289
It is just that that particular organization

00:44:24.289 --> 00:44:27.130
required, had lost skill at that point in time.

00:44:27.369 --> 00:44:31.789
Yeah. Of course. Life happens to you. Yeah. It's

00:44:31.789 --> 00:44:35.329
just that you have to take the cues. Sometimes

00:44:35.329 --> 00:44:40.260
you're quick in taking those cues. And that works

00:44:40.260 --> 00:44:44.519
out. Sometimes, you know, you're afraid to get

00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.199
out of the status quo because the comfort zone

00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:49.320
you have, you're hoping that you'll be able to

00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:51.059
hold on to it for a little longer and maybe things

00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:59.360
will improve. And it takes wisdom and a lot of

00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:03.519
soul searching to come to a point when you realize

00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:08.559
when it is time for you to move on or not. So

00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:12.159
when I moved into ING, for instance, again, the

00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:16.059
first four years were absolutely wonderful. I

00:45:16.059 --> 00:45:18.460
was getting into something where it was like

00:45:18.460 --> 00:45:22.300
a startup. And startups have always held the

00:45:22.300 --> 00:45:24.460
charm for me because I was creative in nature.

00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:27.619
And when you have the right kind of boss, I remember

00:45:27.619 --> 00:45:33.900
my way with a lot of affection. My boss there

00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:37.760
was Mr. Anil Bhatia. He is still a very, very,

00:45:37.780 --> 00:45:40.300
very dear friend of mine. So I'm just saying

00:45:40.300 --> 00:45:43.699
that, you know, the kind of free hand I had and

00:45:43.699 --> 00:45:46.860
we worked shoulder to shoulder and we literally,

00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.019
I mean, the sales department from his end and

00:45:50.019 --> 00:45:54.159
the kind of support I got to head the alternate

00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:57.840
channels training function, start from the scratch,

00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:01.000
build up the processes from the scratch, hire

00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:04.199
trainers from the scratch, build training programs.

00:46:04.969 --> 00:46:09.250
not just what was provided in terms of the products,

00:46:09.429 --> 00:46:14.730
but also to nurture skills amongst the employees.

00:46:15.170 --> 00:46:20.150
Now that, the initial stage of my stint with

00:46:20.150 --> 00:46:24.590
ING, I got all of that. A free hand. I had some

00:46:24.590 --> 00:46:29.389
amazing, amazing colleagues. And like I said,

00:46:29.530 --> 00:46:31.849
we were finding feet. We were in a small little...

00:46:34.420 --> 00:46:38.059
And then we migrated to a bigger, you know, big

00:46:38.059 --> 00:46:42.739
building until we had a huge, you know, building

00:46:42.739 --> 00:46:45.880
on MG Road in Dangalore. And that's where we

00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:48.440
found our feet as a corporate entity and all

00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:52.260
that. And that's when we proliferated more. So

00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:55.199
during all these, during all these stints of

00:46:55.199 --> 00:47:00.119
training, was singing a part of what you were

00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:04.000
known for at all these places as well? Yes. In

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:09.480
fact, my first boss, he was wonderful. I mean,

00:47:09.500 --> 00:47:12.139
he was very encouraging. I mean, so I used, you

00:47:12.139 --> 00:47:15.280
know, what did happen in those interim years

00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:20.980
was I managed to keep singing for groups, professional,

00:47:21.099 --> 00:47:25.739
semi -professional groups locally. And then there

00:47:25.739 --> 00:47:28.519
was some talent scouts from Bombay who started

00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:33.769
performing here in Chennai. migrated me to Bombay

00:47:33.769 --> 00:47:35.530
and I started performing for them in Bombay.

00:47:35.570 --> 00:47:39.210
So initially with low level of success, but then

00:47:39.210 --> 00:47:44.889
I quickly understood that Bombay, once the market

00:47:44.889 --> 00:47:48.449
opened up, it could be something else. And after

00:47:48.449 --> 00:47:52.889
2007 or 8, it really started booming for me.

00:47:53.050 --> 00:47:58.949
And at one point I found that I was making virtually

00:47:58.949 --> 00:48:03.210
as much money. for music as I was in my corporate

00:48:03.210 --> 00:48:06.190
career. But then again, you know, you wanted

00:48:06.190 --> 00:48:08.050
the best of both worlds because you were performing

00:48:08.050 --> 00:48:10.730
in the weekends and you were working during the

00:48:10.730 --> 00:48:14.949
weekdays. Yeah. I mean, talk about having, doing

00:48:14.949 --> 00:48:17.789
exactly what you like doing during weekends and

00:48:17.789 --> 00:48:21.269
being paid well for that. It is because of my

00:48:21.269 --> 00:48:24.710
health also because, you know, I honestly did

00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:29.969
not like Bangalore as a city. I was quite miserable.

00:48:30.570 --> 00:48:34.349
As a city, I didn't find roots. Though I was

00:48:34.349 --> 00:48:36.530
there for at least six, six and a half years,

00:48:36.750 --> 00:48:39.909
I didn't find my roots in Bangalore at all. I'm

00:48:39.909 --> 00:48:43.969
not blaming anybody. It's just that I was not

00:48:43.969 --> 00:48:47.309
eating well. I was not looking after myself so

00:48:47.309 --> 00:48:50.329
well. And I was not too happy. So I would run

00:48:50.329 --> 00:48:53.530
back to Chennai every weekend or fly to Bombay

00:48:53.530 --> 00:48:55.989
or Gujarat or someplace, you know, if I got a

00:48:55.989 --> 00:48:59.289
chance to. I, in fact, had a chat with one of

00:48:59.289 --> 00:49:02.579
my... Subsequent bosses, again, a wonderful channel

00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:07.380
called Sanjeev. I told him, boss, at one point

00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:11.760
of time, I might head the music way. But as of

00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:17.659
now, I plan to pursue both music and training

00:49:17.659 --> 00:49:21.480
here. Let me know if that's okay with you. Because

00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:24.119
if it's not, if it's going to clash, let me know,

00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:28.340
I'll get out. But I don't want to. I think you

00:49:28.340 --> 00:49:30.769
guys are great. And I would like to be with you

00:49:30.769 --> 00:49:34.429
as long as possible. But the weekends, I would

00:49:34.429 --> 00:49:38.210
like them to be mine. Is that okay? And he was

00:49:38.210 --> 00:49:40.590
gracious and he thought for a moment. I said,

00:49:40.650 --> 00:49:45.449
go ahead. So that was like an official go ahead,

00:49:45.630 --> 00:49:48.610
which I'm saying that, you know, I'm eternally

00:49:48.610 --> 00:49:51.030
grateful to these people for being so helpful

00:49:51.030 --> 00:49:55.849
in my career. So five, six years were absolutely

00:49:55.849 --> 00:50:00.840
wonderful. And I got a... The amusement of my

00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:05.260
father, I got a long -term service award after

00:50:05.260 --> 00:50:09.980
five years in ING. My father by then had finished

00:50:09.980 --> 00:50:14.099
about 40 years of service in the same company.

00:50:14.659 --> 00:50:21.199
Very different. He was old school. Anyway, so

00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:27.579
then what happened was, although I loved training

00:50:27.579 --> 00:50:33.579
and I was... There was a change in my role. And

00:50:33.579 --> 00:50:36.679
then all of a sudden, I found myself again straightjacketed

00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:43.079
into processes. Processes which were very straightjacketed.

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:48.059
There was no leeway. I had no control over a

00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:51.420
few things. And I would be still held responsible

00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:53.840
for things I had no control over. For instance,

00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:58.619
you were told to be responsible. for the performance

00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:04.920
of the sales team. Whereas it was always not

00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:08.719
possible to insist that they remained in training

00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:10.659
because they had some pressures and they would

00:51:10.659 --> 00:51:13.599
be taken out. So after some time, I realized

00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:17.719
that this was not just this company, but the

00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:21.599
industry at large. And then I found myself becoming

00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:26.179
slowly more and more of a headmaster for other

00:51:26.179 --> 00:51:31.800
trainers. And my own involvement in taking training

00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:34.780
other than product training was coming to a standstill.

00:51:35.139 --> 00:51:39.139
And being creative by nature, that began to hurt

00:51:39.139 --> 00:51:42.900
me. Because I felt that, is this what I really,

00:51:43.099 --> 00:51:47.940
is this what I signed up for? So like I said,

00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:52.239
you know, it's absolutely nobody's fault. I mean,

00:51:52.260 --> 00:51:54.420
it's just that sometimes you find yourself completely

00:51:54.420 --> 00:51:56.559
in alignment with the company, the same company.

00:51:56.960 --> 00:51:59.840
And then finally, finally, you find that focuses

00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:02.199
of the organization is changing because of business

00:52:02.199 --> 00:52:05.380
reasons. And it is, yeah. And yeah, realities.

00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:08.880
And it's nobody's fault. It's just that you find

00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:12.400
yourself becoming non -aligned to that. What

00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:16.079
do you do? So sometimes you embrace status quo

00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:18.519
and you hang on to status quo and you hope that

00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:20.860
things will change. And then no matter what you

00:52:20.860 --> 00:52:23.360
do, things don't change. The writing's on a wall.

00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:26.159
But you still don't own it because you don't.

00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:32.039
It's like, you know, it's like, it's like not

00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:35.079
accepting that maybe this... Yeah, unwilling

00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:37.760
to accept that certain things have changed. Okay,

00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:40.920
so you're saying then that what you've arrived

00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.980
at now, the happy place that you're in right

00:52:42.980 --> 00:52:47.239
now, which is singing, was a gradual process

00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:51.559
or was it one of those... The year which I left

00:52:51.559 --> 00:52:56.630
the company, I had taken a... overall decision

00:52:56.630 --> 00:53:00.309
that that year would be my breakaway year. Okay.

00:53:01.050 --> 00:53:05.309
I had still not, you know, solidified on the

00:53:05.309 --> 00:53:08.309
date, but I had made up my mind and I told my

00:53:08.309 --> 00:53:12.530
management that I think this year I would look

00:53:12.530 --> 00:53:16.429
out for a change. Not, I would not join any competition,

00:53:16.650 --> 00:53:19.489
but I would be pursuing my music, which I've

00:53:19.489 --> 00:53:22.550
been trying to do for a long time. Maybe I didn't

00:53:22.550 --> 00:53:24.409
take myself seriously and maybe they didn't take

00:53:24.409 --> 00:53:28.469
me. Very seriously. But one day I found that

00:53:28.469 --> 00:53:30.570
a colleague of mine, who I was very close to,

00:53:30.690 --> 00:53:34.449
said, this is my last day. I said, you can't

00:53:34.449 --> 00:53:37.869
do that to me. How dare you leave just like that?

00:53:38.050 --> 00:53:40.809
That was like a kick in the pants for me. Okay.

00:53:41.530 --> 00:53:46.590
Overnight, I took a decision. What if? Now, I

00:53:46.590 --> 00:53:51.590
had enough of leave with me. I took a split decision.

00:53:51.750 --> 00:53:55.619
And the next morning, With a singing heart, I

00:53:55.619 --> 00:54:00.940
wrote a polite and fond resignation letter saying

00:54:00.940 --> 00:54:05.920
that I think I've finally found my feet and I

00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:09.119
know what I want to pursue now. I've had a wonderful

00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.159
eight -year stint with this organization. You've

00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:14.539
put me into so many different situations and

00:54:14.539 --> 00:54:18.519
I'm ever grateful for that. But I think I've

00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:20.579
come to a decision that this is the time I would

00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:23.070
like to give notice. The head of training was

00:54:23.070 --> 00:54:24.690
shocked. I mean, he was a newcomer and he said,

00:54:24.750 --> 00:54:27.389
are you leaving because of me? I said, no, at

00:54:27.389 --> 00:54:30.510
all. I don't even know you. And certainly not.

00:54:30.929 --> 00:54:34.269
Then he had a quick meeting with about 400 trainers

00:54:34.269 --> 00:54:36.769
and said, Surjit, he was a very senior guy. He's

00:54:36.769 --> 00:54:39.510
leaving. I'm going to stop him. So one of my

00:54:39.510 --> 00:54:40.929
colleagues told him, have you heard him sing?

00:54:42.949 --> 00:54:46.389
He said, no. He said, if you hear him sing, you

00:54:46.389 --> 00:54:51.480
let him go. I'm telling you something. Vinay

00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:56.179
Gopal, I mean, the day I took that decision was

00:54:56.179 --> 00:54:59.639
the happiest day of my life. Not because it was

00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:02.300
a relief to get away from something. Not at all.

00:55:03.099 --> 00:55:07.000
I wouldn't take away a single moment from any

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:11.239
of the organizations. And I can't stop singing

00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:14.619
the praises of all my colleagues, all the organizations

00:55:14.619 --> 00:55:16.380
who've given me such a wonderful experience.

00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:21.090
But it is because of them that... They helped

00:55:21.090 --> 00:55:24.969
me come to a decision which was so natural that

00:55:24.969 --> 00:55:28.750
now, even if there is, you know, a month without

00:55:28.750 --> 00:55:31.829
business, it doesn't shake me, it doesn't rattle

00:55:31.829 --> 00:55:35.590
me. Because leap of faith, which finally happened,

00:55:35.849 --> 00:55:41.630
was a natural process. I went into it with confidence,

00:55:41.730 --> 00:55:45.690
with absolute self -reliance that I was doing

00:55:45.690 --> 00:55:48.949
the right thing. It was not out of frustration.

00:55:49.610 --> 00:55:56.170
It was not out of desperation. It was like an

00:55:56.170 --> 00:55:59.329
opening, a door opening and I saw it and I knew

00:55:59.329 --> 00:56:04.570
the system. And every minute ever since, I've

00:56:04.570 --> 00:56:10.030
been ever so happy, ever so happy. Wonderful,

00:56:10.250 --> 00:56:13.789
Sarojit. It's been an hour and this must be one

00:56:13.789 --> 00:56:19.809
of those few interviews or programs where You

00:56:19.809 --> 00:56:23.789
have not sung a single bit. Closing thoughts

00:56:23.789 --> 00:56:28.030
and then maybe we'll close out on a song before

00:56:28.030 --> 00:56:32.630
you leave. Yeah, so my closing thoughts is if

00:56:32.630 --> 00:56:35.710
I were to look at what I would do differently

00:56:35.710 --> 00:56:41.429
if I were to start all over again. It's very

00:56:41.429 --> 00:56:46.110
easy to be a glib talker when you've had 35 years

00:56:46.110 --> 00:56:48.530
of experience. and say, I would have done this

00:56:48.530 --> 00:56:51.449
differently. At that point of time, you really

00:56:51.449 --> 00:56:55.050
don't know. Sometimes life puts you through those

00:56:55.050 --> 00:56:59.070
entanglements because you need to figure out.

00:56:59.750 --> 00:57:05.690
What I have figured out, though, is that when

00:57:05.690 --> 00:57:08.809
life comes to you, comes across to you, and hits

00:57:08.809 --> 00:57:12.309
at you, there are times we're going to have every

00:57:12.309 --> 00:57:17.340
life has had its share of challenges. Right.

00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:24.739
But, you know, the only time when you need to

00:57:24.739 --> 00:57:29.360
change is if you feel that cold fear of not having

00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:31.619
done your homework and you're going to be punished

00:57:31.619 --> 00:57:35.199
in school. That is the time when you know that

00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:38.599
you're... This is not what you need to do. You

00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:42.059
need to do that. And if you don't, you're inviting

00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:45.460
punishment. More punishment, which is unwarranted.

00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:49.440
Life is not a punishment. Life is giving you

00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:52.739
opportunities to look at different things and

00:57:52.739 --> 00:57:54.860
try them for yourself. Some of them you're going

00:57:54.860 --> 00:57:56.420
to like, some of them you're going to walk away

00:57:56.420 --> 00:57:59.579
from. And no, I'm done. You don't have to beat

00:57:59.579 --> 00:58:03.360
yourself up about it. It's just that you gracefully

00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:07.340
leave. And now today that grace has been thanks

00:58:07.340 --> 00:58:11.199
to everybody in my life. You know, every colleague,

00:58:11.400 --> 00:58:14.039
every friend, my parents who, you know, gave

00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:18.329
me that boost. to start with. So today I think

00:58:18.329 --> 00:58:23.630
that don't be afraid to explore. When you begin

00:58:23.630 --> 00:58:26.150
with something, don't be afraid to explore. Even

00:58:26.150 --> 00:58:29.369
if it's something not your cup of tea, look at

00:58:29.369 --> 00:58:31.989
it. And if it doesn't work out and you find that

00:58:31.989 --> 00:58:36.050
you're not really happy with it, then ask yourself

00:58:36.050 --> 00:58:38.369
really, what is it that you really want? What

00:58:38.369 --> 00:58:42.690
is it that you need to ask yourself? Because

00:58:42.690 --> 00:58:45.099
if you don't... If you don't invest that amount

00:58:45.099 --> 00:58:49.300
of time, you are not going to leave one job and

00:58:49.300 --> 00:58:52.579
get into another job. It'll be a very temporary

00:58:52.579 --> 00:58:55.840
feeling of relief that you got into another job.

00:58:56.219 --> 00:59:00.559
Yeah. If you do not know why you're leaving or

00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:03.960
what you really want now, you are going to repeat

00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:07.679
any unhappiness that you've ever experienced

00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:11.800
again and again. But at some stage, ask yourself,

00:59:11.940 --> 00:59:14.150
what is it that you really want? And if you don't

00:59:14.150 --> 00:59:17.469
have it with you, build on it. One day when you're

00:59:17.469 --> 00:59:23.829
ready, you hit the road. So, a couple of lines

00:59:23.829 --> 00:59:28.789
to bid goodbye. Okay. Do you mind if I have a

00:59:28.789 --> 00:59:32.650
little bit of accompaniment? Please. Okay. Just

00:59:32.650 --> 00:59:35.030
a couple of lines. I don't think the audience

00:59:35.030 --> 00:59:38.530
will tolerate me for more. No, they'd be glad

00:59:38.530 --> 00:59:40.489
to, but I think they'd love to see you on stage.

00:59:41.050 --> 00:59:43.710
All right, let's see. Rather than just... Most

00:59:43.710 --> 00:59:46.809
of all, those who are watching this program,

00:59:46.989 --> 00:59:50.750
I'm so grateful that you've joined in and tuned

00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:56.110
into our program. It might have made some relevance

00:59:56.110 --> 00:59:59.070
to you. Maybe you've had some similar experiences.

00:59:59.489 --> 01:00:02.449
I'm very grateful to this organization for giving

01:00:02.449 --> 01:00:05.429
me this platform because it allows you to really

01:00:05.429 --> 01:00:09.369
share. And I think many of us feel at the end

01:00:09.369 --> 01:00:13.889
of the day that... Even though we have had various

01:00:13.889 --> 01:00:16.809
checkered careers or wonderful careers, there

01:00:16.809 --> 01:00:19.170
are a lot of commonalities, a lot of learnings

01:00:19.170 --> 01:00:22.050
which are similar. And that gives you more strength.

01:00:22.409 --> 01:00:27.389
So let me close with a couple of lines. Okay.

01:00:41.739 --> 01:00:54.059
Wahi tu mat rukh jana. Wahi tu mat rukh jana.

01:00:55.219 --> 01:01:03.219
Tufa se mat khabrana. Kabhi tu nilegi. Teri nan

01:01:03.219 --> 01:01:17.789
se. Kahil ka ghan ki china. Wow. Marvelous. What

01:01:17.789 --> 01:01:21.030
a wonderful note to end it on, Sirujit. Thank

01:01:21.030 --> 01:01:24.909
you very much for taking part in this and being

01:01:24.909 --> 01:01:28.489
so honest, being so upfront and telling us with

01:01:28.489 --> 01:01:32.650
so candidly about what you've had, how life has

01:01:32.650 --> 01:01:35.530
treated you and what you've given back. Thank

01:01:35.530 --> 01:01:38.380
you for coming on the program. Pleasure. That

01:01:38.380 --> 01:01:48.420
was Surajit Goha. And as you've seen, the quality

01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:51.619
of his singing is so good that he could have

01:01:51.619 --> 01:01:55.460
made those decisions very early on. But he's

01:01:55.460 --> 01:02:00.460
had such a wonderful life in all the places that

01:02:00.460 --> 01:02:02.880
he's worked in. He's brought so much of happiness

01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:07.190
to people and he himself. has been so happy as

01:02:07.190 --> 01:02:11.289
a result. So tune in next week again. Thank you

01:02:11.289 --> 01:02:13.690
for all those people who have joined us. And

01:02:13.690 --> 01:02:16.610
you can catch this on YouTube at any time. Please

01:02:16.610 --> 01:02:19.090
do subscribe to the channel so that you keep

01:02:19.090 --> 01:02:23.389
getting updates on our listening. And every Friday

01:02:23.389 --> 01:02:27.150
at 3 p .m. is when we hope to come back to you

01:02:27.150 --> 01:02:29.750
or we will come back to you with a new guest,

01:02:29.869 --> 01:02:35.940
a new career journey, and more fun. Thank you.