WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.060 It was a very like basic interest for me that 00:00:03.060 --> 00:00:05.639 I'm really interested in spending time in the 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:09.000 outdoors. I enjoy going on hikes. I enjoy being 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:11.439 a student. So it was just, you know, it was my 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:13.300 own curiosities, I think, that sort of stirred 00:00:13.300 --> 00:00:18.359 me. I decided to study economics because I did 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:22.000 commerce in 11th and 12th in India. I realized 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.879 that I didn't want to do the sciences, the pure 00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:28.010 sciences very early on. So I spent most of my 00:00:28.010 --> 00:00:32.189 life thinking that I would do medicine. A majority 00:00:32.189 --> 00:00:34.490 of my family are doctors. So there's always, 00:00:34.549 --> 00:00:36.810 you know, medicine chatter in the house. And 00:00:36.810 --> 00:00:40.109 I was never interested in much else. And biology 00:00:40.109 --> 00:00:43.369 fascinated me. You know, cut to 11th, 12th grade, 00:00:43.450 --> 00:00:46.210 which I did science in 11th and 12th in India, 00:00:46.369 --> 00:00:49.030 somehow figured that I wanted to break free. 00:00:49.130 --> 00:00:51.549 And I didn't want to do what I had structurally 00:00:51.549 --> 00:01:01.170 planned to do for the last decade. It's amazing 00:01:01.170 --> 00:01:04.250 as to the number of careers that people can have. 00:01:04.370 --> 00:01:08.489 But all of those careers were wonderful moments 00:01:08.489 --> 00:01:14.569 of understanding, of defeat, of victory. And 00:01:14.569 --> 00:01:18.209 it was a look back. So for the 25th episode, 00:01:18.549 --> 00:01:24.269 Deepa Ravi, Jayachandran and I decided that we're 00:01:24.269 --> 00:01:27.709 going to flip the equation. Instead of looking 00:01:27.709 --> 00:01:31.890 at... what a career has been, we said we'd look 00:01:31.890 --> 00:01:35.109 at young people who are poised on the threshold 00:01:35.109 --> 00:01:40.109 of an exciting career. We have three young, enthusiastic, 00:01:40.370 --> 00:01:44.170 and extremely accomplished, even at this young 00:01:44.170 --> 00:01:48.730 age, guests on the show. Deepika Ganesh, you 00:01:48.730 --> 00:01:52.209 have decided that you're going to look at education 00:01:52.209 --> 00:01:57.170 for sustainable development. Aryaman Harish. 00:01:57.739 --> 00:02:02.099 And Aryaman is into data analytics and visualization. 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:06.540 And finally, Aditi is looking at a future in 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:09.340 immunology. And she has an unusual combination 00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:14.900 in her education. She did economics by what is 00:02:14.900 --> 00:02:18.699 the molecular sciences, right? Yes. Yeah. This 00:02:18.699 --> 00:02:20.840 is one of the things that I find is really interesting 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:22.979 about what young people do. They are not confined 00:02:22.979 --> 00:02:26.080 by one single object. They're combining things 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:28.219 because that's ultimately how the world is going 00:02:28.219 --> 00:02:30.340 to be. It's not going to be about one particular 00:02:30.340 --> 00:02:34.219 subject. Deepika, why don't you tell us how this 00:02:34.219 --> 00:02:37.520 interest began? Most of my interests have been 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.159 mostly knowing what I did not want to do more 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:42.520 than what I did want to do. I feel like schooling 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:44.860 is so prescriptive for us, you know, and that 00:02:44.860 --> 00:02:47.759 we're given a certain set of choices. So I've 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:49.580 mostly been, you know, like, I don't really want 00:02:49.580 --> 00:02:51.120 to do this. I don't really want to do that. So 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:54.379 it was a very like basic. interest for me that 00:02:54.379 --> 00:02:56.960 I'm really interested in spending time in the 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.319 outdoors. I enjoy going on hikes. I enjoy being 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.759 a student. So it was just, you know, it was my 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:04.620 own curiosities, I think, that sort of stirred 00:03:04.620 --> 00:03:07.159 me. And yeah, a telling moment that you also 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:10.759 had mentioned in my bio for me was, I had done 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:15.060 my master's thesis at this tiny village called 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:19.020 Mangala Jodi in Orissa. And it was a very interesting 00:03:19.020 --> 00:03:22.180 setup there. Like we had, it was a village which 00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:26.740 ran on bird watching and it used to be a place 00:03:26.740 --> 00:03:29.300 that was really infamous as a poaching village 00:03:29.300 --> 00:03:32.400 and there was actually an IS officer who grew 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:35.340 up there who came back worked with his community 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:38.139 and you know got them to change their livelihood 00:03:38.139 --> 00:03:40.960 so I think in that like for me stood out the 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:43.939 power of like education who is giving you the 00:03:43.939 --> 00:03:46.759 education and how it operates in spaces outside 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.849 of school and and you know college So, Aariman, 00:03:50.909 --> 00:03:54.169 how did you get into data or analytics? What 00:03:54.169 --> 00:03:59.289 was the guiding force? There was no guiding force, 00:03:59.409 --> 00:04:04.050 honestly. I decided to study economics because 00:04:04.050 --> 00:04:08.849 I did commerce in 11th and 12th in India. I realized 00:04:08.849 --> 00:04:12.409 that I didn't want to do the pure sciences very 00:04:12.409 --> 00:04:15.569 early on. When I thought about my future, I didn't 00:04:15.569 --> 00:04:17.810 see a clear path. So I thought the safe option 00:04:17.810 --> 00:04:20.660 would be to get a STEM degree. For someone who 00:04:20.660 --> 00:04:24.300 has studied commerce in 11th and 12th, economics 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:27.220 is like the only choice left, which is still 00:04:27.220 --> 00:04:31.019 a STEM subject, but considered a STEM subject, 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:36.079 but it's not pure STEM. So I decided, OK, I've 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.500 eliminated the pure sciences. Let's jump on this 00:04:38.500 --> 00:04:40.959 bandwagon. Didn't think too much, just went ahead. 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:43.920 And then when I did, when I started my economics 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.579 degree, I realized, oh, this is. This is too 00:04:46.579 --> 00:04:49.819 theoretical. I can't apply this in any way. The 00:04:49.819 --> 00:04:53.319 tools that it's equipping me with are useful. 00:04:53.860 --> 00:04:57.220 But how do I take this, make a career for myself? 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:00.860 And I said, okay, you know what now? I saw some 00:05:00.860 --> 00:05:03.620 core skills in the degree that could be translated 00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:06.819 into data analytics. So I took what I was learning 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:10.000 in the classroom and I tried to gain some skills 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:12.420 in data analytics and that paved the way for 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:15.290 some internships. Honestly, it wasn't a planned 00:05:15.290 --> 00:05:18.189 thing. It was very one thing after the other. 00:05:18.410 --> 00:05:21.470 Like Deepika said, eliminate a bunch of things 00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:24.370 to come to something and then you keep going 00:05:24.370 --> 00:05:27.449 one step from the other. One step from the other. 00:05:27.589 --> 00:05:31.509 One at all. Okay. So, Aditi, any, you know, sudden 00:05:31.509 --> 00:05:35.529 moments of revelations or was it, like they said, 00:05:35.610 --> 00:05:39.189 a progress towards a kind of career that you 00:05:39.189 --> 00:05:42.730 want to do? Yeah, there seems to be common thread 00:05:42.730 --> 00:05:45.750 here in that you figure out what you don't like 00:05:45.750 --> 00:05:48.230 and that steers you towards something you're 00:05:48.230 --> 00:05:50.709 good at you do like so it was kind of similar 00:05:50.709 --> 00:05:54.470 for me so I spent most of my life thinking that 00:05:54.470 --> 00:05:58.290 I would do medicine a majority of my family are 00:05:58.290 --> 00:06:00.750 doctors so there's always you know medicine chatter 00:06:00.750 --> 00:06:04.329 in the house and I was never interested in much 00:06:04.329 --> 00:06:07.389 else and biology fascinated me you know cut to 00:06:07.389 --> 00:06:10.750 11th 12th grade which I did science in 11th and 00:06:10.750 --> 00:06:13.540 12th in India somehow figured that I wanted to 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:15.839 break free and I didn't want to do what I had 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.439 structurally planned to do for the last decade. 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.379 And kind of in reaction to that structure, I 00:06:21.379 --> 00:06:24.199 said, I want everything but structure. So I did 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:27.180 a liberal arts and sciences degree and I just 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:29.240 chose subjects that I thought, we'll take one 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:31.220 class, see how it goes. If it interests me and 00:06:31.220 --> 00:06:34.939 it sticks, fantastic. So molecular cell biology 00:06:34.939 --> 00:06:36.939 was something that I'd always been interested 00:06:36.939 --> 00:06:39.910 in and I'd studied it a bit in high school. And 00:06:39.910 --> 00:06:43.589 economics, funnily enough, I read a book called 00:06:43.589 --> 00:06:47.230 Freakonomics by Levitt and Dubner. And, you know, 00:06:47.230 --> 00:06:49.310 I thought the class came up, there was a free 00:06:49.310 --> 00:06:52.250 spot. So I said, okay, great, let's join. And 00:06:52.250 --> 00:06:54.910 that kind of followed through for the next three 00:06:54.910 --> 00:06:58.129 years and I majored in it. Now, have I found 00:06:58.129 --> 00:07:02.110 a way to conflate the two subjects? We can explore 00:07:02.110 --> 00:07:05.769 that a little bit. But yeah, that's kind of how 00:07:05.769 --> 00:07:09.610 things just happened. Yeah. Okay. Wonderful. 00:07:09.910 --> 00:07:14.750 So what I'm getting here is that, again, Deepika, 00:07:14.870 --> 00:07:17.589 coming back to you, did your parents have a lot 00:07:17.589 --> 00:07:20.350 to say about the kind of career or they let it, 00:07:20.449 --> 00:07:22.870 you know, they left it to you to decide what 00:07:22.870 --> 00:07:25.730 you wanted to do? I think, yeah, I've been lucky 00:07:25.730 --> 00:07:28.769 in that I'm pretty sure at many points they didn't 00:07:28.769 --> 00:07:31.410 really understand what I was doing. I didn't 00:07:31.410 --> 00:07:32.990 really understand what I was doing, but then, 00:07:32.990 --> 00:07:36.819 you know, they trusted me. And yeah, I mean, 00:07:36.860 --> 00:07:38.240 I don't know what else to say. I'm sure they 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.160 still, because sometimes they still ask me, like 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:41.560 somebody's asking us what you're doing. Can you 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:43.459 just quickly tell us? And I'll be like, yeah, 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.079 sure. And I'll send them across a quick text. 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.939 I'm interested in doing, what is education for 00:07:49.939 --> 00:07:53.920 sustainable development? Why is it, why is it 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:56.560 not education alone? Why do the two have to be 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:00.639 linked? They don't have to be. But I think in, 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:04.449 I mean, at least now. for everyone who's studying 00:08:04.449 --> 00:08:08.430 the climate crisis is essential. And it's essential 00:08:08.430 --> 00:08:12.129 to all fields, irrespective of whether, you know, 00:08:12.149 --> 00:08:15.129 you're working with finance or IT. Like I was 00:08:15.129 --> 00:08:17.209 just reading yesterday about how, you know, the 00:08:17.209 --> 00:08:21.709 cost of, I mean, the energy use of Bitcoin mining 00:08:21.709 --> 00:08:24.769 is more than like all the Amazon offices across 00:08:24.769 --> 00:08:27.939 the world put together. You know, when we're 00:08:27.939 --> 00:08:29.759 faced with these kind of challenges, I think 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.019 that's why I find this space critical. And then 00:08:32.019 --> 00:08:35.879 the connection also makes sense. I saw a little 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.700 news item about Bitcoin. Can you imagine what 00:08:39.700 --> 00:08:43.320 consumes more than Bitcoin mining? It's very 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:45.919 obvious. Once you know what the answer is, it's 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:53.340 YouTube. YouTube's data centers actually use 00:08:53.340 --> 00:08:56.340 up and very carefully the very next day after 00:08:56.340 --> 00:09:00.039 that. graph was published on bbc the top half 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:02.779 of the graph which showed what is being the highest 00:09:02.779 --> 00:09:05.259 this thing was actually taken off and it started 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:08.299 with bitcoin so you get get to hear a lot about 00:09:08.299 --> 00:09:11.820 what bitcoin is all about in this segment okay 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:14.419 i don't mean to come back to you one of the things 00:09:14.419 --> 00:09:17.220 that you said was that you did this project to 00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:21.399 figure out tell producers what netflix you know 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:25.200 how did People like certain movies on Netflix 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.220 or was that part of a team that you worked with? 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.379 How did you arrive at gathering data and what 00:09:31.379 --> 00:09:33.659 is your source data for coming, working on a 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:37.080 project like that? So I took this course in university. 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:40.480 It was called data visualization for, and it 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:43.320 was a course that the information system school 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:47.419 offered. And so for that course, we had to build 00:09:47.419 --> 00:09:50.019 an interactive dashboard. We had to build this 00:09:50.019 --> 00:09:53.149 in Tableau, which is a very. widely used tool 00:09:53.149 --> 00:09:55.870 for visualization in the industry we thought 00:09:55.870 --> 00:09:59.070 to ourselves okay where do we get the data to 00:09:59.070 --> 00:10:02.029 do this because we want to create multiple types 00:10:02.029 --> 00:10:04.730 of visualizations communicate different types 00:10:04.730 --> 00:10:10.110 of insights across different KPIs and so we we 00:10:10.110 --> 00:10:14.529 found data on Kaggle which is Kaggle is a very 00:10:14.529 --> 00:10:18.490 commonly used data analytics and data science 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:21.600 learning platform And we found this public data 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:25.360 set on Kaggle where they'd scraped data from 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:29.039 Netflix of all the different movies across different 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.779 years. And then we linked that data to financial 00:10:32.779 --> 00:10:35.600 data we had about Netflix's revenue in different 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:38.860 markets. And then once we were able to link it 00:10:38.860 --> 00:10:42.539 and find a join, we created different visualizations 00:10:42.539 --> 00:10:44.960 and made it sort of interactive. So you could 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:48.460 play around with the years, with the genres to 00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:51.389 sort of see. how certain things are looking in 00:10:51.389 --> 00:10:55.049 certain markets. So it was a fun thing for us. 00:10:55.210 --> 00:10:58.809 It was more of a project that we sort of, we 00:10:58.809 --> 00:11:02.009 finished and then we sent a mail to Netflix saying, 00:11:02.070 --> 00:11:05.289 hey, we did this. We didn't work with Netflix 00:11:05.289 --> 00:11:08.110 really, but it was just really to, it was something 00:11:08.110 --> 00:11:10.549 we were interested in because a lot of indie 00:11:10.549 --> 00:11:13.250 producers want to pitch to Netflix, but they 00:11:13.250 --> 00:11:15.850 don't necessarily have information. So that's 00:11:15.850 --> 00:11:18.330 what we were doing. So Aditi, in your course, 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.879 Was it a 50 -50 kind of split between economics 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:27.200 and molecular cell biology? Or was it, what was 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.980 the mix like? And how did you manage the credits 00:11:29.980 --> 00:11:34.679 for both of them? So it wasn't a 50 -50 split 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:38.500 by any means. I actually started off with biology 00:11:38.500 --> 00:11:43.610 and physics. Physics kind of led me to economics 00:11:43.610 --> 00:11:45.590 at some point. And there's a lot of similarities 00:11:45.590 --> 00:11:47.769 between physics and economics, which is why I 00:11:47.769 --> 00:11:50.370 think I found the transition pretty easy. With 00:11:50.370 --> 00:11:54.409 the degree I got, it's a little bit of a lot. 00:11:54.590 --> 00:11:59.049 I did a bit of linguistics. I had a random gastronomy 00:11:59.049 --> 00:12:02.210 course that I did. I think overall, the credits 00:12:02.210 --> 00:12:05.309 were mainly in biology and economics, but there 00:12:05.309 --> 00:12:08.230 was a lot interspersed between languages as well. 00:12:08.289 --> 00:12:11.149 I think the idea is... with a degree like this 00:12:11.149 --> 00:12:14.129 is to give you a fairly broad foundation as opposed 00:12:14.129 --> 00:12:17.509 to a very deep understanding of a particular 00:12:17.509 --> 00:12:21.350 subject which is a common joke with people who've 00:12:21.350 --> 00:12:23.350 done the liberal arts and sciences which is I 00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:25.570 can simultaneously do everything but nothing 00:12:25.570 --> 00:12:29.590 you know so which is why I think I took a year 00:12:29.590 --> 00:12:33.690 off after university to still explore after that. 00:12:37.730 --> 00:12:41.529 Okay. Sorry, I think I lost you for a little. 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:44.870 But that connection you made, economics and physics, 00:12:45.190 --> 00:12:47.970 similarities, can you just expand a bit on that? 00:12:48.590 --> 00:12:52.330 Sure, yeah. I believe there's some amount of 00:12:52.330 --> 00:12:55.730 economics that was derived from physics. For 00:12:55.730 --> 00:12:59.570 example, the concept of elasticity in physics 00:12:59.570 --> 00:13:01.909 and economics is very similar, applied to very 00:13:01.909 --> 00:13:04.830 different things. So there are those few key 00:13:04.830 --> 00:13:09.009 parallels. And I did microeconomics specifically, 00:13:09.190 --> 00:13:11.850 so it's very math -based, which is similar to 00:13:11.850 --> 00:13:14.129 physics. It's applied math and so is economics. 00:13:14.409 --> 00:13:17.409 I'm sure Aryuman can touch upon that as well. 00:13:17.730 --> 00:13:20.850 The base, essentially, when you're learning micro 00:13:20.850 --> 00:13:23.629 and macro is you need to know multivariate calculus. 00:13:24.330 --> 00:13:28.309 I guess maths can sort of help you find the common 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:31.320 intersection. And there's also a lot of linear 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.279 regression. And if you're going on the applied 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.580 side, there's a lot of linear and multiple variable 00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:39.019 regression stats models that you use that could 00:13:39.019 --> 00:13:43.120 apply to other domains as well. So the methods 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.620 could be similar, but the domains may be different 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:49.440 sort of where we're applying things. Yeah. Okay. 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:52.200 So Deepika, I think one of the things you mentioned 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.500 is that you worked on this big, massively open 00:13:55.500 --> 00:14:00.419 online MOOC. Yeah. What was that about? What 00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:03.559 exactly did you do there? That was, I think that's 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:05.899 what I think cemented my interest in research 00:14:05.899 --> 00:14:09.440 or that's what kind of moved me here is I was 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.000 working at the Indian Institute of Management 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:14.120 in Bangalore in their online learning department. 00:14:14.379 --> 00:14:17.480 So I used to design these massive open online 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.840 courses, MOOCs, as they are known for sustainable 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.580 development. So it was both inward and outward 00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:26.379 facing. So we would have MOOCs that anyone in 00:14:26.379 --> 00:14:29.139 the world could sign up for. And we also did 00:14:29.139 --> 00:14:31.379 like blended learning programs that other faculty 00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:34.120 wanted to take up or that students wanted to 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:37.679 take up at the institute. And yeah, one interesting 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.519 project that I did was we designed this MOOC 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.799 to sort of aim to decentralize business curriculum 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:47.559 or like include perspectives from different states 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:49.320 and different countries. Like with, I mean, with 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:51.539 most, I don't know, we're all familiar with how 00:14:51.539 --> 00:14:54.960 like in most of our, I guess, things that... 00:14:55.210 --> 00:14:57.330 we've studied they're not really grounded and 00:14:57.330 --> 00:15:00.149 rooted in our own surroundings so we tried to 00:15:00.149 --> 00:15:02.509 bring that into business curriculum by having 00:15:02.509 --> 00:15:05.149 a program where faculty could develop cases from 00:15:05.149 --> 00:15:07.450 their own states or their own localities like 00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:10.570 identify a challenge and write about it and include 00:15:10.570 --> 00:15:13.529 it in the you know in the curriculum that we 00:15:13.529 --> 00:15:15.950 were publishing so that was an interesting project 00:15:15.950 --> 00:15:20.529 that happened in 2000 and sorry and was that 00:15:20.529 --> 00:15:23.470 live Were these the same? I mean, all of these 00:15:23.470 --> 00:15:27.830 courses, the MOOCs are, what is the method of 00:15:27.830 --> 00:15:32.309 delivery? So the, so the MOOCs is, yes, the MOOCs 00:15:32.309 --> 00:15:34.610 are all online. They, we used to use Open edX. 00:15:34.710 --> 00:15:36.289 I'm not, I mean, I don't work there anymore. 00:15:36.389 --> 00:15:38.649 So, and I know that edX was bought by another 00:15:38.649 --> 00:15:41.309 company called 2U. So I'm not too sure where 00:15:41.309 --> 00:15:42.870 they're hosted now, but yeah, you would find 00:15:42.870 --> 00:15:44.990 them online. The course that I worked on was 00:15:44.990 --> 00:15:46.750 called Strategy and the Sustainable Enterprise, 00:15:47.049 --> 00:15:48.990 was called Strategy and the Sustainable Enterprise. 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.019 Yeah, anyone can sign up for it. And it's free 00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:54.000 unless you want a certificate from the course. 00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:56.860 I think those are some of the challenges, right? 00:15:57.000 --> 00:16:00.700 In terms of today, you're free to do a whole 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:05.159 lot of courses. But in terms of does it help 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:07.000 to get a job? Because some of the clients we 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:08.779 work with, the people who want to come and join 00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:11.039 them are only asking one question. Is this going 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.860 to lead me to a job? I think a few of you have 00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:16.559 this. I'm not saying it's not just an observation. 00:16:16.580 --> 00:16:19.340 It's also an awareness and a realization. You 00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:21.440 need to spend the early part of your life building 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:23.879 a foundation of at least some of the things that 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.659 you know you want to be involved in for the next 00:16:25.659 --> 00:16:29.139 10 or 15 years. Some people don't have that flexibility. 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.919 It's almost as if they have to try and figure 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:37.659 out. So I'm saying if your choices were limited, 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:40.519 I'm going to make it a bit of a difficult thing 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:43.460 out here. I'm going to ask each of you in turn, 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.580 if you were forced into certain situations where 00:16:46.580 --> 00:16:49.470 you didn't have... The ability to do what you 00:16:49.470 --> 00:16:52.830 wanted. Have you ever considered that? Deepika? 00:16:53.509 --> 00:16:55.809 Yeah, I mean, I feel like that happens to me 00:16:55.809 --> 00:16:59.070 all the time. So, I mean, even very recently, 00:16:59.070 --> 00:17:02.490 when I just started, like my first project as 00:17:02.490 --> 00:17:05.849 a PhD student, I'm working with an engineering 00:17:05.849 --> 00:17:09.049 department and I have to read a case on ammonia 00:17:09.049 --> 00:17:11.829 production. I haven't done engineering, you know, 00:17:11.829 --> 00:17:15.500 so I feel like what you said. It's a disadvantage. 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:17.819 It's also an advantage, I think, is our access 00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:20.099 to information. I think if we have a willingness 00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:22.279 to learn, we can probably learn about everything. 00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:25.859 And I think also viewing like the spaces that 00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.980 we learn in as spaces of networking, at least 00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:31.140 the physical spaces and like knowledge we can 00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:34.900 access anywhere. But, you know, the university 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:37.859 that we attend or like people that we meet as 00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:39.720 people who can teach us, because I do have someone 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:43.730 who's teaching me now about. you know, the decarbonizing 00:17:43.730 --> 00:17:46.190 of ammonia production. And it's going to take 00:17:46.190 --> 00:17:48.069 me a while to figure out the vocabulary. But 00:17:48.069 --> 00:17:51.349 yeah, hopefully I get that. Harul, what do you 00:17:51.349 --> 00:17:54.950 think? I think all of us are a fairly privileged 00:17:54.950 --> 00:17:57.430 bunch of people here who have had the choice 00:17:57.430 --> 00:18:01.789 to, you know, choose things that we like studying 00:18:01.789 --> 00:18:04.829 or at least have some remote interest in. But 00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:07.869 very often, many people don't have the choice 00:18:07.869 --> 00:18:12.049 to choose what they study. or where they work. 00:18:12.589 --> 00:18:15.450 Sometimes it's just about making ends meet, trying 00:18:15.450 --> 00:18:18.509 to get from one step to the other. But I found 00:18:18.509 --> 00:18:23.309 that even from people who are in those situations, 00:18:23.670 --> 00:18:25.529 people who maybe their parents have forced them 00:18:25.529 --> 00:18:28.150 to study engineering because that's the norm 00:18:28.150 --> 00:18:31.289 in India. That's usually the, yeah. That's the 00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:35.559 norm, yeah. See, and... An urge and a willingness 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:40.099 to not let the academic constraints that society 00:18:40.099 --> 00:18:43.500 has subjected upon them to stray them away from 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:46.500 their core interests. I think academics is no 00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:49.960 longer a boundary. And what you study for four 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:52.579 years in your bachelor's degree or your two years 00:18:52.579 --> 00:18:55.920 in your master's is not a determinant of what 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.759 you want to do in the future. It's about what 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:01.220 you want to do. And I feel this especially for 00:19:01.220 --> 00:19:05.049 applied domains. where the skills can be acquired 00:19:05.049 --> 00:19:08.690 with time and effort or work experience, that 00:19:08.690 --> 00:19:12.029 we don't need to be constrained by what we study. 00:19:12.450 --> 00:19:15.450 A society will tell us that we should be constrained 00:19:15.450 --> 00:19:19.710 by that. But if we have an interest and a strong 00:19:19.710 --> 00:19:23.210 passion, we should not let that stop us. And 00:19:23.210 --> 00:19:26.630 I'm a strong proponent of that because I feel 00:19:26.630 --> 00:19:31.650 like the job market is... is evolving rapidly. 00:19:31.970 --> 00:19:34.450 Jobs that are there today will not be there two, 00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:37.029 three years from now. The tools we are using 00:19:37.029 --> 00:19:39.009 today are not going to be there two, three years 00:19:39.009 --> 00:19:41.569 from now. The things that they taught us in school 00:19:41.569 --> 00:19:44.910 might become irrelevant. But what we need to 00:19:44.910 --> 00:19:48.210 take away is some core skills and try and keep 00:19:48.210 --> 00:19:51.769 them close to us, I think. Yeah. I don't know 00:19:51.769 --> 00:19:54.730 if that makes sense. It does. It does. Because, 00:19:54.769 --> 00:19:57.269 like you said, change is something that's happening 00:19:57.269 --> 00:20:00.359 at a much more rapid rate. So the solutions that 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.039 applied, let's say, even a decade ago may not 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.279 be relevant today. Aditi, what has your experience 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.380 been? Or, you know, in terms of, okay, if you 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:13.619 thought you were constrained, what would your 00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:17.200 options have been? So, yeah, reflecting what 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:20.519 Aryuman said, I think I've also always been aware 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.980 of the privileges I've been given, the privilege 00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:27.630 of choosing, the privilege of... picking what 00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:30.049 I would like to do and then discarding what I 00:20:30.049 --> 00:20:33.869 didn't. If I was backed into a corner, let's 00:20:33.869 --> 00:20:37.529 say grade 12, I think I would have done medicine. 00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:42.130 But to give you a little anecdote, same vein. 00:20:42.329 --> 00:20:48.470 So I worked in HR for a few months last year 00:20:48.470 --> 00:20:51.750 and I was a recruiter. So I ended up talking 00:20:51.750 --> 00:20:53.309 to a lot of people, interacting with a lot of 00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:55.289 people from different backgrounds. different 00:20:55.289 --> 00:20:59.170 socioeconomic backgrounds. And a sort of common 00:20:59.170 --> 00:21:03.230 thread that I found with the interviews I did 00:21:03.230 --> 00:21:07.490 was that as long as you were willing to learn 00:21:07.490 --> 00:21:10.730 outside of the box a little bit compared to, 00:21:10.750 --> 00:21:13.250 let's say, what you've gotten your degree in, 00:21:13.390 --> 00:21:16.589 anything is possible. So I saw people who'd come 00:21:16.589 --> 00:21:19.650 with engineering degrees who were doing HR alongside 00:21:19.650 --> 00:21:22.789 me. Or, you know, very rarely the opposite. You 00:21:22.789 --> 00:21:26.089 need a certain skill set for an engineering job. 00:21:26.470 --> 00:21:30.430 But it really showed me that you don't have to 00:21:30.430 --> 00:21:33.509 be constrained by what you were forced to do 00:21:33.509 --> 00:21:37.230 in your earlier years. And I think, so I'm going 00:21:37.230 --> 00:21:39.569 to my master's now in a few months. And I think 00:21:39.569 --> 00:21:42.069 that's the beauty of a master's. Because when 00:21:42.069 --> 00:21:44.930 I got out of my bachelor's, you know, the world 00:21:44.930 --> 00:21:47.029 was my oyster. I didn't know what I was going 00:21:47.029 --> 00:21:49.190 to do. But then a master's kind of helps you. 00:21:49.660 --> 00:21:52.400 refine that do something entirely different you 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:58.099 know so in terms of of being constrained i think 00:21:58.099 --> 00:22:01.400 that's more a mindset than than anything else 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:05.519 yeah fair enough i think that's one of the great 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:10.079 things that i'm seeing is that you guys are so 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.839 clear about i don't think my generation which 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:17.440 is at least three generations removed was had 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:20.579 anything close to the clarity that you have today. 00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:25.099 And at times I wonder if that is a process of 00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:27.619 conditioning. You've got so used to having so 00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:29.579 much of information right from the beginning 00:22:29.579 --> 00:22:33.279 that your mind almost acts like a filtration 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.000 mechanism and then says, this no, this no, this 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:38.539 no. In fact, I had written recently, I think 00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:42.200 that even the scrolling seems to be like a filter 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:45.059 because the mind is telling you, move. This is 00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:48.009 not important to you. As opposed to it being 00:22:48.009 --> 00:22:51.269 a reflex. Okay. But Deepika, just to come back. 00:22:51.930 --> 00:22:54.910 Do you see this whole thing about, do you think 00:22:54.910 --> 00:22:57.529 there's too much being made about planning your 00:22:57.529 --> 00:23:01.450 career and what you should be doing? As opposed 00:23:01.450 --> 00:23:05.329 to saying, do what you think you'll be good at 00:23:05.329 --> 00:23:08.789 and let it evolve from there. I mean, I don't 00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:11.250 know. I think I'm just going to rely on my own 00:23:11.250 --> 00:23:14.660 experience. And actually for a while. I thought 00:23:14.660 --> 00:23:16.539 I should tell you that I did work with career 00:23:16.539 --> 00:23:18.819 counseling. I mean, I used to design programs 00:23:18.819 --> 00:23:20.980 on gender and sustainability, but I worked with 00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:24.359 an organization that used to do career counseling 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:27.359 in schools. And I'm just going to look back at 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.960 my experience there. And I think so much of it 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.319 is an autonomous decision that we need to be 00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:36.299 empowered to make. And I feel like that's really 00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:39.839 missing in how our schools operate, because we 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.119 always have people telling us what to do. And 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:45.079 I'm not saying that. you know, in a way to vilify, 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.839 you know, families or schools because they all 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.299 have our best interest in heart. But very rarely 00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:53.700 do we have the capacity to come up with an original 00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:58.019 thought or to even reflect and see what our interests 00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:00.859 are. And I feel like the process of reflection 00:24:00.859 --> 00:24:03.920 should be embedded in this process, like from 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.880 an early age, if we're able to sit with ourselves 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.660 and understand what we like to do. I think either 00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:12.599 way, it will make it... Even if it's like, ah, 00:24:12.619 --> 00:24:15.880 you figure it out as you go, or I want to become 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.960 an economist, so this is how I get there. I feel 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.700 like reflecting and having the tools to be able 00:24:22.700 --> 00:24:25.980 to plan that out would make it easier. Okay, 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.539 great. So we have a couple of comments that have 00:24:28.539 --> 00:24:30.619 come up. It's not so much a question, so I'll 00:24:30.619 --> 00:24:36.980 just show it to you. Okay, so obviously that 00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:43.539 resonated. So Ravi says that the sustainability 00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:46.240 part is simple, but they have become so complex. 00:24:46.420 --> 00:24:49.160 You were just talking of decarbonization and 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.279 all the credits and all the jargon. That seems 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:55.160 to evolve faster than the field itself, you know, 00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:01.299 which come out there. And academics and practically 00:25:01.299 --> 00:25:05.460 working, quite a big gap, I guess. But, okay, 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:09.220 Aariman, you know, the same question that I asked. 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:13.920 Deepika, how do you see this playing out? Let's 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.359 say, I'm not even asking for a five -year horizon. 00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:19.240 I'm saying maybe over the next couple of years, 00:25:19.539 --> 00:25:23.720 where do you see the value in data visualization 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.720 from a commercial viewpoint? I'm just asking, 00:25:26.819 --> 00:25:28.759 is that something that you would look at or you'd 00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.619 say, let me figure out as I go along? Data visualization 00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:38.960 is something that is useful in all areas of... 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:42.880 you know, business. Speaking from a corporate 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:46.779 sort of perspective, you know, you can use it 00:25:46.779 --> 00:25:49.160 in finance, you use it in marketing, you use 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:51.819 it in HR, you use it everywhere, right? There 00:25:51.819 --> 00:25:55.579 are KPIs that managers need to track and they 00:25:55.579 --> 00:25:58.900 need to sort of report and sort of, if their 00:25:58.900 --> 00:26:01.660 visualizations are too complex and they're hard 00:26:01.660 --> 00:26:05.400 to read and sort of managers sort of has only 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.079 10 minutes to go through things. then you've 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:10.640 lost the plot, right? So it's not just about 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.160 knowing how to, knowing about different types 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.640 of graphs or knowing about different types of 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.619 data. It's not just about that, but it's a form 00:26:20.619 --> 00:26:26.200 of communication because words are not good enough. 00:26:26.619 --> 00:26:30.119 Even if you have gone through so much information, 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:32.279 you know, you've read through tables of data, 00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.400 gone through rows of Excel, right? When you're 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:39.019 communicating to a stakeholder and you're using 00:26:39.019 --> 00:26:41.880 a visual medium, you need some graphs, right? 00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:45.640 And it's like a principal communication mechanism. 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:50.500 So you need to figure out the hues, color, size, 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:56.180 angle, you know, and ensure that you're communicating 00:26:56.180 --> 00:26:59.759 what is appropriate. So actually a lot of applied 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:02.730 psychology comes into this. Because we need to 00:27:02.730 --> 00:27:05.170 understand the attention span of individuals. 00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:09.210 What insight they will capture first. Very often, 00:27:09.369 --> 00:27:12.809 earlier in Excel, you could make these 3D graphs. 00:27:13.109 --> 00:27:15.049 I don't know if you have ever noticed, but you 00:27:15.049 --> 00:27:17.609 could make these 3D graphs. They are actually 00:27:17.609 --> 00:27:20.789 the worst type of graph to make. Because you're 00:27:20.789 --> 00:27:25.289 communicating too much at once. No one can figure 00:27:25.289 --> 00:27:27.890 out what is going on in three dimensions, you 00:27:27.890 --> 00:27:30.990 know. So, things like this, psychology tells 00:27:30.990 --> 00:27:33.619 us. you know, that you're overdoing it, boss. 00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:36.680 Press the pause button, right? So I think we 00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:39.380 see this as something fundamental. Maybe the 00:27:39.380 --> 00:27:41.859 platform will change. Maybe instead of Tableau, 00:27:41.859 --> 00:27:44.559 you're using PowerDI. Maybe AI will come in and 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.319 make the visualizations for you, taking the data. 00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:51.859 Maybe. But still, you need to know why, how, 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:57.000 when to make the appropriate choice. So that's 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.259 fundamental. Yeah. Great. I think that's valid. 00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:04.779 Aditi, what about you? What do you think? What 00:28:04.779 --> 00:28:07.900 do I think about where the field I'm in? Yeah, 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:10.380 yeah. The field you're in and how it's going 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:13.579 to pan out in future and are you looking far 00:28:13.579 --> 00:28:15.880 ahead or are you saying next couple of years, 00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:18.660 I'll figure out things as I go along because 00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:21.299 I will get to know more. One of the good things 00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:23.339 I think you've done is you earlier mentioned 00:28:23.339 --> 00:28:26.059 that you did HR for a while before you got into 00:28:26.059 --> 00:28:31.980 your current NQ, which again, give you a set 00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:34.539 of experiences that may not have been exactly 00:28:34.539 --> 00:28:36.700 like Deepika said when she went and talked to 00:28:36.700 --> 00:28:39.680 as a career counselor you get a set of experience 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:44.960 so what's your take right now so I look at everything 00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.559 in life I was given some very good advice only 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.779 a few months ago I look at everything in life 00:28:49.779 --> 00:28:54.980 career wise at least as a project so the HR stint 00:28:54.980 --> 00:28:59.319 was a project before that project and it gives 00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:04.000 me an end not to look forward to but sort of 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:06.660 goals to achieve within a certain period of time 00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:10.400 and very often I've heard friends of mine complaining 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:12.619 oh I don't know how people do this I'm bored 00:29:12.619 --> 00:29:15.579 how do people stay at one job for you know 20 00:29:15.579 --> 00:29:18.440 -30 years brings in a question loyalty and things 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:21.559 like that but I think the idea of looking at 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:25.000 something as a project really gives you a sense 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.690 of perspective. So to answer your question, where 00:29:28.690 --> 00:29:32.730 do I see myself in this field? I don't know. 00:29:33.490 --> 00:29:37.470 I'm doing a master's in a similar field, immunology, 00:29:37.549 --> 00:29:41.089 and potentially I will come back to this. So 00:29:41.089 --> 00:29:43.210 the company, maybe I can explain what my company 00:29:43.210 --> 00:29:46.750 does. We're a startup in Bangalore, and it's 00:29:46.750 --> 00:29:50.329 based around the idea of creating a cancer immunotherapy, 00:29:50.670 --> 00:29:53.529 cell -based immunotherapy. The cell in question 00:29:53.529 --> 00:29:57.170 would be the NK cell, natural killer cell, NQ. 00:29:57.490 --> 00:30:01.470 So where I see this field going, there's extremely 00:30:01.470 --> 00:30:05.210 exciting science going on. The incubator that 00:30:05.210 --> 00:30:08.630 I'm at in Bangalore, CCAM, Center for Molecular 00:30:08.630 --> 00:30:12.309 Platforms, there's so much going on and I want 00:30:12.309 --> 00:30:14.390 to take part in every single project. Every single 00:30:14.390 --> 00:30:17.329 startup is trying to achieve such different things 00:30:17.329 --> 00:30:21.170 and such necessary things. So there's, I think, 00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:24.329 a lot in this field. And I think a lot is going 00:30:24.329 --> 00:30:27.690 to be available specifically for Indian customers, 00:30:27.910 --> 00:30:31.390 for Indian patients. Drugs that are not typically 00:30:31.390 --> 00:30:33.430 or therapies that aren't typically accessible 00:30:33.430 --> 00:30:37.250 in terms of finances to the Indian consumer base. 00:30:37.890 --> 00:30:40.089 People are working on that daily. My company 00:30:40.089 --> 00:30:43.269 is working on that. So where I fit into this, 00:30:43.410 --> 00:30:45.250 I don't know. I can tell you for the next six 00:30:45.250 --> 00:30:48.609 months, the next year, we'll have to see. We'll 00:30:48.609 --> 00:30:53.289 have to see. Okay. Great. But, you know, one 00:30:53.289 --> 00:30:56.670 of the things, just looking at two different... 00:30:56.670 --> 00:31:01.130 On one side, we see that the world is moving 00:31:01.130 --> 00:31:06.869 much faster towards climate. You can call it 00:31:06.869 --> 00:31:09.609 an apocalypse because of the way BDR shows it. 00:31:10.029 --> 00:31:13.049 And on the other, we seem to be developing these 00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:16.190 technologies that... We could never have dreamt 00:31:16.190 --> 00:31:18.730 of in terms of curing people, in terms of health. 00:31:20.089 --> 00:31:23.470 Do you think at some point this whole thing is, 00:31:23.609 --> 00:31:27.109 it's a question of a race as to who will win? 00:31:27.210 --> 00:31:30.069 Because if you don't have a planet, it doesn't 00:31:30.069 --> 00:31:33.950 matter. At the same time, if you have the planet, 00:31:34.150 --> 00:31:36.869 how is it that you're going to improve life? 00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:39.670 Because, you know, at some point, I think it's 00:31:39.670 --> 00:31:44.220 going to be a... What's your take? Deepika? There's 00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:47.220 so many layers to this, uncle. I mean, this is 00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:49.000 the thing that both Aditi and Aryaman mentioned 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:53.099 is, who has the privilege to access this technology 00:31:53.099 --> 00:31:57.559 or life -saving or not? We know that Elon Musk 00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:00.420 is going to move to Mars in case all of this 00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:04.880 does happen. So, I mean, I have no answer to 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.279 your question, but I don't know. I think it's 00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:09.980 nice to... I was actually seeing the connection 00:32:09.980 --> 00:32:15.269 when Aditi was talking about, the cancer. And 00:32:15.269 --> 00:32:17.089 Aryaman was talking about the visualization. 00:32:17.230 --> 00:32:19.789 I actually attended a conference where someone 00:32:19.789 --> 00:32:21.910 has developed this dashboard in which you can 00:32:21.910 --> 00:32:24.690 regulate the dosage of medicine depending on 00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:27.890 a person's race and gender and age. And these 00:32:27.890 --> 00:32:32.210 are advancements. And this was at an education 00:32:32.210 --> 00:32:34.930 conference, which was under the theme of compassion. 00:32:35.190 --> 00:32:37.190 So he developed this dashboard to educate nurses, 00:32:37.190 --> 00:32:41.049 the person. So I think it's just so nice to see 00:32:41.049 --> 00:32:44.569 the kind of... humanitarian way in which anything 00:32:44.569 --> 00:32:47.849 could work. So, you know, maybe the planet is 00:32:47.849 --> 00:32:54.049 good after all, I guess. I don't know. Arun, 00:32:54.069 --> 00:32:57.910 what's your take? These two things on one side. 00:32:58.490 --> 00:33:01.829 It's a very existential theme. And when we enter 00:33:01.829 --> 00:33:05.109 these existential themes, I'm sort of, I don't 00:33:05.109 --> 00:33:08.589 know what to say, but I will say this. I think 00:33:08.589 --> 00:33:13.279 that we need to Look at horizons differently, 00:33:13.660 --> 00:33:17.900 you know. I think that, you know, when our countries 00:33:17.900 --> 00:33:20.720 gained independence, there would be these five 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.839 -year plans in sort of this Nehru -Venera. They 00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:26.440 would have these five -year plans for growth 00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:30.160 and they would sort of set about allocating resources 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:34.700 to different industries, you know, based on their 00:33:34.700 --> 00:33:38.750 idea of how much this industry should grow. So 00:33:38.750 --> 00:33:42.970 they've planned it all out and they move with 00:33:42.970 --> 00:33:44.910 the assumption that they know what's coming. 00:33:45.369 --> 00:33:48.450 But, you know, history has proven that we don't 00:33:48.450 --> 00:33:52.049 know what's coming. Yeah, we don't know what's 00:33:52.049 --> 00:33:55.049 coming at all. COVID -19 is proof that we really 00:33:55.049 --> 00:33:59.069 don't know what's coming. So I think you try 00:33:59.069 --> 00:34:02.910 to do your best, you know, you try to move in 00:34:02.910 --> 00:34:06.470 a direction which you want to move, but you shouldn't 00:34:06.470 --> 00:34:11.239 expect. things to work out. I think this is something 00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:15.559 that's very important in our careers, in our 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:19.219 lives in general. I think we can't expect things 00:34:19.219 --> 00:34:22.800 to work out. We can't expect our choices and 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:26.679 our risk to sort of need to gain. Things may 00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:29.260 work out sometimes, they might not work out the 00:34:29.260 --> 00:34:32.599 others. We need to have some backup options, 00:34:32.699 --> 00:34:35.159 some backup plans, a third route, a fourth route. 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.480 Because uncertainties are abundant and they're 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:40.659 going to come our way. They're going to continue 00:34:40.659 --> 00:34:43.760 to come our way. And if today is uncertain, tomorrow 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.539 is going to be 10 times more uncertain. So I 00:34:46.539 --> 00:34:50.000 think the attitude should be, don't expect things 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.719 to work out. If they work out, great. If not, 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:56.639 our effort is itself enough. And I think that 00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.219 that mindset is important. Yeah, that's being 00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:02.300 very practical. And Aditi, I think you just mentioned, 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.579 so two years when you went away to study, And 00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:09.019 then you came back. When you went to study, these 00:35:09.019 --> 00:35:12.619 projects didn't exist in India. At least I don't 00:35:12.619 --> 00:35:15.539 think it existed as far as you knew, but the 00:35:15.539 --> 00:35:17.880 work was going on. But it's only now that you've 00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:22.380 seen it happen. So at some point earlier, the 00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:24.719 thing used to be that, you know, it'll only be 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:27.579 in the West that something will happen. But today 00:35:27.579 --> 00:35:30.179 you're beginning to see that even in India, that 00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:32.900 process has started, even if it's not moved into 00:35:32.900 --> 00:35:36.619 high gear. Because, you know, electronic vehicles, 00:35:36.900 --> 00:35:39.599 Ather, the kind of two wheelers that we have, 00:35:39.699 --> 00:35:41.780 they put in eight years of work on the battery. 00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:44.659 Because they said, OK, if it's going to go into 00:35:44.659 --> 00:35:46.880 something like this, then I want to ensure that 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:50.380 it meets all Indian conditions. So you could 00:35:50.380 --> 00:35:53.159 have 45 degrees in a certain place and you can't 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:55.159 have the battery catch fire, which is your basic 00:35:55.159 --> 00:36:00.039 premise. OK, so do you solve for whatever is 00:36:00.039 --> 00:36:03.840 directly in front of you? You know, sometimes 00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.880 these plans are like, I remember saying five 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:08.980 years, leave alone five years, even the next 00:36:08.980 --> 00:36:14.440 couple of years. That's a very interesting question. 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:19.980 In a nutshell, I used to be someone who planned 00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:23.280 many, many years ahead, had a five -year plan, 00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:25.980 10 -year plan, so on and so forth. But I don't 00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:28.440 think I am that person anymore only because I've 00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:30.519 learned that that's not a sustainable way to 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:34.059 live. To kind of touch upon what Deepika Nariman 00:36:34.059 --> 00:36:38.280 said as well, I really loved the positivity and 00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:40.719 the realism they brought in to this conversation 00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:45.139 because I think it's important to be, as much 00:36:45.139 --> 00:36:47.300 as you have to be realistic, it is important 00:36:47.300 --> 00:36:49.679 to be positive because I was reading an article 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:53.260 the other day where it said that reading an article 00:36:53.260 --> 00:36:56.780 heading with bad news is something people click 00:36:56.780 --> 00:36:59.380 on more regarding the environment that is, click 00:36:59.380 --> 00:37:03.949 on more as opposed to good news. So I think the 00:37:03.949 --> 00:37:07.469 idea of, you know, this apocalyptic mentality, 00:37:07.829 --> 00:37:11.769 the world's on fire, sometimes literally, that's 00:37:11.769 --> 00:37:16.869 okay to pass through and kind of digest. And 00:37:16.869 --> 00:37:19.730 then you do your little things to help the planet 00:37:19.730 --> 00:37:22.269 or big things like Deepika's doing with education. 00:37:23.130 --> 00:37:26.190 And that's what I try to do, you know, tackle 00:37:26.190 --> 00:37:28.750 small projects two weeks from now, three weeks 00:37:28.750 --> 00:37:33.500 from now. in terms of year -long plans that I've 00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:37.139 set that aside. I've put that to bed. Yeah. Great. 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.400 Okay. So here's something that I think is meant 00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:46.380 for all of you. So Deepika, why don't you go 00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:50.039 with this? Tell me. This is not my first job. 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.400 Should I reflect on my first? Okay. When your 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:56.460 first job, okay, the question is that it's going 00:37:56.460 --> 00:37:59.579 back to the time you had your first job. Okay. 00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:03.059 The thing is, there's always an expectation and 00:38:03.059 --> 00:38:05.739 it's more about what was the mentality when you 00:38:05.739 --> 00:38:09.760 had your first job versus now you have advanced 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:14.519 a few years into it. So what has changed? Things 00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:18.539 have changed so much. And I think also this is 00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:21.079 something important that I thought that Aryaman 00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:24.800 brought up. Now I understand and recognize the 00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:28.579 value of starting building a skill earlier, like 00:38:28.579 --> 00:38:31.659 irrespective of. which field you're in. And I 00:38:31.659 --> 00:38:33.659 think, yeah, when I was in my first job, I didn't 00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.840 really have much of a clue, you know, what I 00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:37.820 was doing. I was fresh out of my three -year 00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:40.880 degree from Mount Carmel College. I think I was 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:43.159 one of two people who sat for campus placements 00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:46.940 because everyone else did not even, I don't know, 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:50.119 want to do that. And then, yeah, my first job 00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:54.119 was very accidentally at KPMG in knowledge management. 00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:56.860 Yeah, like, I think I just intentionally went 00:38:56.860 --> 00:38:58.780 for that. And that's where, like, I started writing 00:38:58.780 --> 00:39:01.739 cases on sustainable development. And I'm able 00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:04.960 to recognize that looking back now. But at the 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.039 time, I think I was just intentional about, okay, 00:39:08.099 --> 00:39:10.619 I'm writing cases. Okay, let me, you know, build 00:39:10.619 --> 00:39:13.000 my writing skills. Let me build my presentation 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.460 skills. And I'm glad things have added up. And 00:39:16.460 --> 00:39:18.940 I'm doing much more interesting things now. But, 00:39:18.940 --> 00:39:22.920 yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. I think that's 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:26.039 really the... You know, the way you kind of, 00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:29.019 because at each stage, when you cross a certain 00:39:29.019 --> 00:39:30.800 time, you spend a couple of years and then you 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:35.840 get, it's almost like you're adjusting your rear 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:41.320 view mirror. Saying, okay, this is the road in 00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:44.619 front, but I also need to see what I've gone 00:39:44.619 --> 00:39:47.860 past to see what I'll need to do in future. And 00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:50.280 I think it's quite humbling also to see it that 00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.519 way. Sorry, go on. No, no, no. Absolutely. I 00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:56.539 think that's valid. And please feel free to cut 00:39:56.539 --> 00:39:59.000 it because I think the whole point is if you 00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.900 think that that point is importantly stated, 00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:04.619 because it's important to get that into the conversation. 00:40:04.900 --> 00:40:10.260 Yes, Sariman. My first significant job was I 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:13.099 worked for four months in a health tech company 00:40:13.099 --> 00:40:16.179 in Singapore. And I was working in growth and 00:40:16.179 --> 00:40:19.539 partnerships. And this company was, it was a 00:40:19.539 --> 00:40:25.969 startup. They worked in developing countries 00:40:25.969 --> 00:40:29.110 to get access to medicines, etc. in rural areas. 00:40:29.329 --> 00:40:33.349 But I was working in Singapore in their HQ. My 00:40:33.349 --> 00:40:36.489 mindset going into this job was, okay, this is 00:40:36.489 --> 00:40:39.610 an internship. It was a very Indian mindset I 00:40:39.610 --> 00:40:43.190 had of, my boss will give me some tasks. I will 00:40:43.190 --> 00:40:46.610 complete those tasks at the end of the day, submit 00:40:46.610 --> 00:40:50.059 it to the boss and go home. This was sort of 00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:53.139 like, OK, I'll come into work, do my tasks and 00:40:53.139 --> 00:40:55.460 leave. Come and do the work, leave. You know, 00:40:55.460 --> 00:40:58.179 this was sort of the mindset I had. It's an internship. 00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:01.579 I was in my second year at the end of my first 00:41:01.579 --> 00:41:04.320 year in university. So I really didn't expect 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:08.500 it to be crazy or tough. But when I walk into 00:41:08.500 --> 00:41:11.780 the startup and I was interacting directly with 00:41:11.780 --> 00:41:15.599 the CEO and the CFO and there was work that was. 00:41:16.090 --> 00:41:18.190 Crazy because they were preparing for their next 00:41:18.190 --> 00:41:21.230 funding round. I was expected to take ownership 00:41:21.230 --> 00:41:26.289 of tasks that I had never thought in the wildest 00:41:26.289 --> 00:41:28.710 of dreams that I'd have to take ownership for. 00:41:28.849 --> 00:41:33.309 In fact, stakeholders directly talk to partners 00:41:33.309 --> 00:41:36.550 in other countries, do things that I had never 00:41:36.550 --> 00:41:41.250 expected I should do, where I feel I am working 00:41:41.250 --> 00:41:44.110 for the organization and I am invested in the 00:41:44.110 --> 00:41:47.010 organization's growth. Because a shift in the 00:41:47.010 --> 00:41:51.090 mindset leads to a difference in your output. 00:41:51.570 --> 00:41:54.469 It's behind at the back of your head, but it 00:41:54.469 --> 00:41:57.769 makes a difference. Aditi, what was your experience 00:41:57.769 --> 00:42:02.670 like? Your very first job? Very similar to Ariman's. 00:42:02.730 --> 00:42:07.829 So my first job would have been HR. It's a cancer 00:42:07.829 --> 00:42:10.650 hospital called Psycare Cancer Hospitals. I've 00:42:10.650 --> 00:42:14.449 had a few internships during university. I approached 00:42:14.449 --> 00:42:18.510 everything as I am doing this for someone else. 00:42:18.650 --> 00:42:21.869 The only person benefiting is me. And suddenly 00:42:21.869 --> 00:42:24.769 I was with a group of people, a team of people. 00:42:25.409 --> 00:42:28.909 And I had the hospital to keep in mind, you know, 00:42:28.929 --> 00:42:31.389 the ethos of the hospital, the hospital's image 00:42:31.389 --> 00:42:34.670 to the patients, to admin, to staff, so on and 00:42:34.670 --> 00:42:38.329 so forth. That was definitely a shift, including, 00:42:38.489 --> 00:42:41.650 I mean, this is very superficial, but in a lot 00:42:41.650 --> 00:42:44.510 of these internships, I made friends. At this 00:42:44.510 --> 00:42:48.789 HR job, I had colleagues. So drawing that line 00:42:48.789 --> 00:42:53.710 for me was a very conscious one. And it took 00:42:53.710 --> 00:42:57.010 me some time to realize that. But specifically, 00:42:57.210 --> 00:42:59.309 and I think this is potentially just a quirk 00:42:59.309 --> 00:43:02.550 of HR and recruitment, but I learned a lot of 00:43:02.550 --> 00:43:06.409 empathy. A lot of empathy, but also a little 00:43:06.409 --> 00:43:10.170 bit more backbone. Funnily enough, the first 00:43:10.170 --> 00:43:12.429 day I was there, the second day I was there, 00:43:15.699 --> 00:43:19.260 candidates and I came home and I wept because 00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:22.179 you know I had never done something like this 00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:24.900 before to reject someone to say no to someone 00:43:24.900 --> 00:43:27.619 was something I had never done before in a professional 00:43:27.619 --> 00:43:31.000 capacity and these are people's livelihoods and 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.320 I had to realize that it wasn't me doing the 00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:37.179 rejection it was a hospital so definitely a lot 00:43:37.179 --> 00:43:41.119 of lessons learned that first job yeah no I can 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:44.699 imagine how If you have to move from getting 00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:47.179 yourself into a job to telling others that they 00:43:47.179 --> 00:43:52.219 didn't have one. I've had this entire conversation 00:43:52.219 --> 00:43:54.619 with a career counselor in one of the earlier 00:43:54.619 --> 00:43:57.940 episodes where Usha said it was largely between 00:43:57.940 --> 00:44:02.440 management issues of people not getting along 00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:05.599 or people thinking that they had a certain skill 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:07.820 and the company then wanted to let go of them 00:44:07.820 --> 00:44:10.739 and she would be brought in exactly at that point 00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:13.000 where... How do you manage this in the shortest 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:15.900 time possible? It's not easy. And especially 00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:18.320 when the person thinks that they've either kept 00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:21.179 the job or they think that they're going to be 00:44:21.179 --> 00:44:24.920 rewarded, which is maybe they grow up very fast 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:28.619 after that because I think once they get into 00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:30.480 that rejection mode, they're not going to be 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.960 taking anything for granted later on. So, okay, 00:44:35.019 --> 00:44:39.480 we've gone over a fair amount of stuff. Though 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.599 I think we meandered because the whole idea was 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.340 not to say that this is my career, but this is 00:44:45.340 --> 00:44:47.619 to say this is a career. And these are the things 00:44:47.619 --> 00:44:50.320 that perspectives that I bring in based on what 00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:53.039 I've done, what I've learned and the same. So 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:57.639 going forward, if you had to advise your parents 00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:02.739 on how they should be looking at, I mean, you 00:45:02.739 --> 00:45:04.940 obviously you started this with the premise saying 00:45:04.940 --> 00:45:06.719 that you have understanding parents, you have 00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:09.099 people who. allowed you to do what they wanted. 00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:11.719 But I'm sure when you were in HR or when you 00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:14.000 were in counseling, you would have come across 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:18.260 people who told you that, no, my parents. So 00:45:18.260 --> 00:45:22.460 if you had to tell parents, what is it that they 00:45:22.460 --> 00:45:25.820 should be letting their children do? Where would 00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:31.000 you begin? This is such an interesting and also 00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:33.900 such a challenging question because like you 00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:36.650 said, I think even when we were growing up is 00:45:36.650 --> 00:45:38.550 very different to how students are in school 00:45:38.550 --> 00:45:41.489 now and the kind of information that they access 00:45:41.489 --> 00:45:46.570 a lot of it could be nonsense you know so i think 00:45:46.570 --> 00:45:49.349 i my appeal would be to the to the ecosystem 00:45:49.349 --> 00:45:51.570 because it's very difficult for just parents 00:45:51.570 --> 00:45:53.849 to take you on this i would hope that schools 00:45:53.849 --> 00:45:56.969 would step up and also like everyone could have 00:45:56.969 --> 00:46:00.050 professional career counseling in that not you 00:46:00.050 --> 00:46:01.710 know not that oh you should build these skills 00:46:01.710 --> 00:46:03.829 or you should do that but to serve as guides 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.860 And to serve as informed guides. So, yes, I hope 00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:10.380 that parents would serve as informed guides or 00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:12.579 at least get their, you know, children access 00:46:12.579 --> 00:46:16.260 to people who can help them get the tools to 00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:20.639 make decisions. Because, I mean, 16, 17, we're 00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.159 making crucial decisions at that age. And, you 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:25.119 know, like, I feel like I can't make crucial 00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:30.840 decisions now. So, yeah. No, and believe me, 00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:40.440 it doesn't get easier. Okay. No, if that's any 00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:43.360 consolation. So I'm saying one of these things 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:46.059 are because sometimes you say there's always 00:46:46.059 --> 00:46:49.719 this I wish I had. But I'm saying those are almost 00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.900 at a certain point you learn not to look at that 00:46:52.900 --> 00:46:55.440 aspect of the whole thing because you have a 00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.159 certain thing that you're doing here and now. 00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.440 Okay. Aariman, what do you think? What do you 00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:04.340 think? Taste this Vishnu very often. I face this 00:47:04.340 --> 00:47:06.800 issue very often where I try to, I'm trying to 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:08.760 convince my parents that, you know, the choices 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:13.440 I'm making are good choices. Very often they 00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:18.260 question the choices I make. And so, you know, 00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.639 it comes from a place of concern. But I think 00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:24.360 parents have certain preconceived notions, you 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:26.820 know, based on how their careers panned out, 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:32.960 you know. And it's not wrong. advice is valid 00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:36.980 in the zone and time and place in which you know 00:47:36.980 --> 00:47:42.000 they experience things but today choices are 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.380 much more number one it's you don't have to be 00:47:45.380 --> 00:47:47.719 a CA a doctor you know it's it's no longer like 00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:51.239 that I think there are other paths other jobs 00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:56.599 that are remunerative may not and may not be 00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.559 the type of career trajectory that you imagine 00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:02.480 there is this idea of a career trajectory in 00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:06.900 Indian parents' minds which is exponential you 00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:09.820 know that enough people will keep going from 00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:12.139 one thing to the other but in reality I don't 00:48:12.139 --> 00:48:15.300 think it works like that you spend some time 00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:17.860 exploring some things figuring out where you're 00:48:17.860 --> 00:48:21.880 headed before you take a leap so I think when 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:25.820 negotiating with your parents You know, and you 00:48:25.820 --> 00:48:29.539 have to take the front seat. You have to tell 00:48:29.539 --> 00:48:32.480 them, listen, it's my life. You know, at the 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:35.300 end of the day, I'm the person driving the car. 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:38.659 I'm the person taking this forward. Tomorrow 00:48:38.659 --> 00:48:42.659 you may not be here. What then? You know, this 00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:46.079 is very important. You need to say, I need to 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:50.679 be 100 % invested in the choices I make. You 00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:54.449 know, and... If that is the situation I'm in, 00:48:54.590 --> 00:48:57.869 even if it doesn't work out, I'm willing to accept 00:48:57.869 --> 00:49:01.969 the consequences. But because it's a risk I decided 00:49:01.969 --> 00:49:04.269 to take. So I think while dealing with parents, 00:49:04.489 --> 00:49:08.070 you have to take a mindset of negotiation. You 00:49:08.070 --> 00:49:10.989 have to say, give me one year, give me two years. 00:49:11.090 --> 00:49:13.929 Let me figure this out. You know, let me try 00:49:13.929 --> 00:49:16.530 this option out. If it doesn't work out, I will 00:49:16.530 --> 00:49:19.269 come back to the beaten path. I can come back 00:49:19.269 --> 00:49:21.840 to the beaten path. But give me a chance to, 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.099 give me an opportunity to explore something different. 00:49:25.300 --> 00:49:29.380 Have faith, have trust in me. I think this is 00:49:29.380 --> 00:49:31.380 important. No, I think it's very sensible. I 00:49:31.380 --> 00:49:33.840 think it's one of those things where, I think 00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:36.079 one of the things that really came through in 00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:38.820 what you were saying is how parents are getting 00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:41.340 into a protective mode. It's not just advisory. 00:49:42.199 --> 00:49:44.300 It's because their personal experience has been 00:49:44.300 --> 00:49:47.420 a certain way. They feel that I don't want you 00:49:47.420 --> 00:49:51.280 to endure what I endured. which at times is almost 00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:54.139 like the same because you have to endure certain 00:49:54.139 --> 00:49:57.679 things. You can only, there is one university, 00:49:57.719 --> 00:49:59.380 which I believe the university of experience, 00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.059 which you can't decide when you want to enroll 00:50:02.059 --> 00:50:06.639 and when you want to graduate. It's one of those 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:09.099 things that happens. Aditi, what's your take? 00:50:10.219 --> 00:50:15.300 What would you tell? So I'm at a... point in 00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:18.679 my life where a lot of my my older cousins older 00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:21.420 friends are having kids now so they're a bunch 00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:24.320 of babies in the family and so this is the question 00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:27.659 I've been you know pondering for the last how 00:50:27.659 --> 00:50:32.179 many ever years and I would say two things mainly 00:50:32.179 --> 00:50:37.739 one notice what your children are curious about 00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:40.780 right because that can come at age four that 00:50:40.780 --> 00:50:45.230 can come at age 24 but I think Figuring out what 00:50:45.230 --> 00:50:48.550 your child is fascinated by, really dipping into 00:50:48.550 --> 00:50:51.789 that curiosity and then allowing them to explore 00:50:51.789 --> 00:50:55.070 that in whatever means necessary, you know, buying 00:50:55.070 --> 00:50:58.389 them a book, an internship, a little, I don't 00:50:58.389 --> 00:51:02.190 know, whatever have you. So I think that would 00:51:02.190 --> 00:51:05.110 be a fantastic thing that I would hope my cousins 00:51:05.110 --> 00:51:09.670 do for their kids. And second would be to, when 00:51:09.670 --> 00:51:14.389 they're older, maybe to instill this, this. differentiation 00:51:14.389 --> 00:51:18.530 between what can be a career and what is a hobby. 00:51:18.829 --> 00:51:22.269 Because both are things that affect your adult 00:51:22.269 --> 00:51:25.409 life a lot. I've had to make that own distinction. 00:51:25.809 --> 00:51:28.369 I still continue to make it for myself. I think 00:51:28.369 --> 00:51:33.170 I will continue to. But I have a lot of experience 00:51:33.170 --> 00:51:35.570 in following things that are hobbies, realizing 00:51:35.570 --> 00:51:39.090 that, oh, wait, I kind of hate this now, pulling 00:51:39.090 --> 00:51:42.039 back and then figuring something else out. And 00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:43.860 I think that's an important distinction to have. 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:49.039 So to allow someone, to allow your child to explore 00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.039 those options, fail potentially, and then come 00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:54.860 back and start from, you know, ground zero, step 00:51:54.860 --> 00:51:59.820 one. I think that's important. Wonderful. I hope 00:51:59.820 --> 00:52:05.280 the parents listening will, for once, you know, 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:08.699 understand that their children are no longer 00:52:08.699 --> 00:52:11.340 children. There's a certain stage in life when, 00:52:11.739 --> 00:52:14.360 You know, you say that, yes, I've seen this child 00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:18.300 from birth and then they've grown up. And there's 00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:20.639 a point at which you need to really look at them 00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:24.179 through fresh eyes. And I guess that's the point 00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:26.900 at which parents themselves will develop a new 00:52:26.900 --> 00:52:30.360 understanding. Wow, it's almost an hour. I didn't 00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:35.519 believe that since we've been chatting. So it's 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:40.539 been wonderful talking to all of you. Final thoughts 00:52:40.539 --> 00:52:44.940 that you want to sort of close out on? Deepika, 00:52:45.099 --> 00:52:48.079 please go ahead. Yeah, thank you. I really just 00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:50.340 want to acknowledge a point that Arya Manalati 00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:54.239 just brought up about, you know, knowing that 00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:56.360 you probably are going to fail, that some of 00:52:56.360 --> 00:52:58.500 your decisions are going to be bad and taking 00:52:58.500 --> 00:53:01.139 comfort in the fact that your parents will support 00:53:01.139 --> 00:53:03.599 you. Like, I think that's something that, you 00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:06.300 know, is so essential for all of us. Like, if 00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:08.880 our parents are not going to support us, then 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:10.579 who are? You know, like, I mean, of course, we 00:53:10.579 --> 00:53:13.840 have friends and other networks, but this is 00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:16.420 like such a crucial and important network. So, 00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:19.179 yeah, so I hope for everyone to have really supportive 00:53:19.179 --> 00:53:22.159 parents who are okay with them failing and coming 00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:25.920 back and having to start from scratch. Wonderful. 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.400 Arumum? I'm at this weird juncture in my life 00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:33.139 where I'm graduating soon and I don't have a 00:53:33.139 --> 00:53:35.400 job in hand. I'm applying for jobs and still 00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:39.210 figuring it out. And... I can tell you it's very 00:53:39.210 --> 00:53:43.369 scary to be in this place in life because you 00:53:43.369 --> 00:53:48.110 think there is this idea that after a job, after 00:53:48.110 --> 00:53:50.730 you study, you will get a job. But there is this 00:53:50.730 --> 00:53:52.849 limbo in between where you're still figuring 00:53:52.849 --> 00:53:56.070 things out. In India, I feel many people have 00:53:56.070 --> 00:53:59.090 this opportunity of campus placements, so maybe 00:53:59.090 --> 00:54:04.610 they don't feel this limbo. But I feel that this 00:54:04.610 --> 00:54:08.460 limbo... teaches you a couple of things so I 00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:11.679 encourage everyone whoever whoever is in this 00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:15.920 limbo to use the time to number one introspect 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:20.219 on what you want to do number two try and hone 00:54:20.219 --> 00:54:23.199 up try and refine the skills that you've acquired 00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:26.739 you know brush the dust off and you know you 00:54:26.739 --> 00:54:28.639 thought you knew it but maybe you don't so go 00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:32.519 back to it and try and relearn and take this 00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:35.780 time in between two major phases of your life 00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:42.119 to prepare for the next journey. Mentally, physically, 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:46.000 because for people who have never worked before 00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:49.179 in their life, it is eight, nine hours of maybe 00:54:49.179 --> 00:54:51.960 sitting in a chair. Maybe you get up for lunch, 00:54:51.980 --> 00:54:54.179 you get up for dinner. You need to be physically 00:54:54.179 --> 00:54:57.320 prepared for this. You need to ensure that you 00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:59.639 are ready. Your back is not going to hurt. Be 00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:02.280 physically prepared. That's one tip I've been 00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:05.199 trying to prepare. Go out. walk a little, come 00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.239 back every day and make that a regular part of 00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:11.139 your life. To be mentally prepared for the culture 00:55:11.139 --> 00:55:13.679 that might be different from what you're used 00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:18.599 to. Be ready to adjust. And the last thing, which 00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:22.000 I said earlier, don't expect things to work out. 00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:25.699 If they do, great. If they don't, we can come 00:55:25.699 --> 00:55:28.079 back to the drawing board again and again and 00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:32.800 again. So that's what I want to say. Wonderful. 00:55:32.980 --> 00:55:36.280 Wonderful, Ariman. Great. I think you picked 00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:39.159 it there. Aditi, what would you like to say in 00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:42.639 conclusion? To follow up those really well -spoken. 00:55:44.420 --> 00:55:48.420 So, yeah, I thought about how I would like to 00:55:48.420 --> 00:55:51.219 end, you know, this podcast. First of all, thank 00:55:51.219 --> 00:55:53.400 you for having me on, Veenwanko. You know, this 00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:55.679 has been very interesting getting to listen to 00:55:55.679 --> 00:56:00.210 what you two have to say as well. Advice I was 00:56:00.210 --> 00:56:03.530 looking for when I left university a little less 00:56:03.530 --> 00:56:06.909 than a year ago that I ended up practicing was 00:56:06.909 --> 00:56:10.710 to get bored. So if you're in limbo, like Ariman 00:56:10.710 --> 00:56:14.570 mentioned, get bored, stare at a wall, go into 00:56:14.570 --> 00:56:20.010 the forest, meditate a bit, get bored and revitalize 00:56:20.010 --> 00:56:24.050 your interest or your curiosity in something 00:56:24.050 --> 00:56:27.289 that may have been lost along the way. You know, 00:56:27.289 --> 00:56:30.429 university has... can have a peculiar effect 00:56:30.429 --> 00:56:34.769 of dimming any sort of interest that you had 00:56:34.769 --> 00:56:37.210 begun with. At least that was the case for me. 00:56:38.050 --> 00:56:41.929 So get bored and you'll find your way eventually. 00:56:42.489 --> 00:56:45.269 That's what I'm telling myself at the very least. 00:56:45.590 --> 00:56:49.949 So yes, that's all I have to say. Yeah. No, I 00:56:49.949 --> 00:56:53.750 think we all face this. We faced this a few generations 00:56:53.750 --> 00:56:58.130 ago. Our choices were limited. But the same fears, 00:56:58.170 --> 00:57:01.929 the same worry, the same lack of understanding 00:57:01.929 --> 00:57:04.610 from our parents, because when you tried to, 00:57:04.650 --> 00:57:07.449 in my case, I was happy because I was able to 00:57:07.449 --> 00:57:09.329 get into advertising, which at that point was 00:57:09.329 --> 00:57:12.730 seen as why would anyone want to work in advertising? 00:57:12.829 --> 00:57:17.630 But, you know, so thank you all. I mean, it's 00:57:17.630 --> 00:57:21.110 been an education because one of the things that 00:57:21.110 --> 00:57:26.409 I expected was that, you know, you'll. You have 00:57:26.409 --> 00:57:30.170 your areas of where you want to improve, but 00:57:30.170 --> 00:57:34.650 I think you've got an extremely, you know, sound 00:57:34.650 --> 00:57:38.489 foundation. And I'm sure that you will contribute 00:57:38.489 --> 00:57:42.289 in major ways in the years to come. Thank you 00:57:42.289 --> 00:57:46.250 for being on the My First Job podcast. And it's 00:57:46.250 --> 00:57:48.809 been a pleasure having you. Thank you so much. 00:57:49.070 --> 00:57:53.050 I really enjoyed listening to all of you. Okay, 00:57:53.130 --> 00:57:55.769 so I'll say bye -bye and then closing remarks 00:57:55.769 --> 00:57:59.789 and see you. All the best for the future. Thank 00:57:59.789 --> 00:58:04.349 you. This was an education as far as I was concerned. 00:58:04.949 --> 00:58:08.210 This is the first time we are talking to a younger 00:58:08.210 --> 00:58:12.010 generation. And what they had to say left me 00:58:12.010 --> 00:58:15.110 more of an optimist rather than someone worried 00:58:15.110 --> 00:58:19.050 about the future. They have such a clear idea 00:58:19.050 --> 00:58:23.500 of what they'd like to do. At that point let's 00:58:23.500 --> 00:58:25.960 leave it until next week.