1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Good afternoon. It's another Friday afternoon and we have another interesting guest. 2 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Soumya Shankar Raman is the head of therapy and operations at TTK hospitals. 3 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:36,000 But she started out as a banker and during our conversation earlier, 4 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:46,000 she told me how there is still a stigma attached not just to people who have mental health issues, 5 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:52,000 but to doctors who want to practice it. It isn't a regular choice. 6 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:59,000 And for Soumya who started out as a banker and then moved into therapy, 7 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,000 it's been quite a journey and that's what we'll be exploring today. 8 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:11,000 So let me introduce, bring Soumya on board and begin the conversation from there. 9 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,000 Hi Soumya. 10 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Hello sir. 11 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Good to have you on the show. 12 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Thank you. 13 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:26,000 It's wonderful to talk about what your life has been because conventional careers we are pretty familiar with. 14 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,000 But why don't you tell us what a typical day for you is like 15 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:37,000 and then we will go back to where it started and what are the things that happened. 16 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Take it from there. 17 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:44,000 Okay. So I work with TTK Hospital which is a tea addiction center, 18 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:52,000 one of the first of its kind in India and it started 43 years back by our founder Dr. Shanti Ranganathan. 19 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:57,000 So I head the overall operations and the therapy here. 20 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,000 So when I enter, I don't, it's like every day is a different day. 21 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,000 It's not, you know, the usual and it's unpredictable. 22 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,000 So you do not know what is in store for you when you enter. 23 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:18,000 So sometimes I say it's quite entertaining at times because you know, it just keeps you, it's like what's next, right. 24 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,000 So my day starts with just to see what's happening. 25 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,000 I go on rounds to see what's happening and if everybody is comfortable. 26 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,000 And then we do have some problematic patients. 27 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,000 This is a rehab for drug and alcohol addiction. 28 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,000 So problematic patients. 29 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,000 There would be something, a note that is left that somebody's created some issue. 30 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,000 There is a family that is demanding or a family that needs some attention. 31 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,000 So I sort out all that and then we see the number of people who've come in for consultation. 32 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:56,000 I try and see that they cleared, they met soon and their waiting time is, I think. 33 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:02,000 So I also pitch in if the intake counselor is loaded and she has a lot of, a long waiting thing 34 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:08,000 because I don't want people waiting because this is a very, they're very fragile when they come seeking help. 35 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:12,000 And there can be a change of mind in a second, right. 36 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,000 They say, no, I don't want treatment. 37 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,000 So one, we don't want to lose them. 38 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,000 We don't want to lose that motivation. 39 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,000 So I clear whenever, you know, it's kind of thing. 40 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,000 I also speed patients and motivate them for treatment. 41 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:36,000 And of course, then the regular staff management in handling crisis, the staff, patients with the admin. 42 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,000 Like you said, that is the routine part of the job, which has to be done. 43 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:46,000 There is the paperwork, which irrespective of whichever job you're in, that is part and parcel of what you do. 44 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Okay. So why don't we go back to your childhood and what was it like in your early years? 45 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:58,000 And what were you thinking about and, you know, where did it all begin? 46 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,000 So I've been predominantly been in Chennai though a few years in Delhi. 47 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:10,000 My father was in Delhi and I'm the eldest of three and I have always been the challenging one. 48 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,000 We have given my parents a very tough time when I would go missing. 49 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:23,000 I was basically a very, very handful one and most part of my years were in Chennai. 50 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:32,000 I used to like animals a lot, you know, any kitten, pigeon, crow. 51 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,000 So it used to be and I always thought I'd become a veterinary doctor. 52 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:42,000 But the biology bit and the science bit was too much for me. 53 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,000 I was not very academically oriented. 54 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,000 I was an average, sometimes below average student. 55 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:55,000 But what my father always identified in me was I was very a people's person. 56 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:02,000 I would find it very easy to connect to people and all that, but a very, so very selective. 57 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:08,000 But I think over a period of years, I kind of extroverted me kind of. 58 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,000 But yeah, came to the fore. OK. OK. 59 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,000 So what was college like? What did you do? 60 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:22,000 So I did two commerce in 11th and 12th and my father is into recruitment. 61 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,000 So he thought I would take on his ropes and I also thought I will. 62 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:33,000 And I did BBA and after BBA, it was only, you know, the plan was to do MBA. 63 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,000 I did cat preparation and everything. 64 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,000 And I always wanted to get into HR. OK. 65 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,000 I thought I wanted to get into HR and that's when MSSW went. 66 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,000 All that happened. So I applied for MSW, HR also in MSSW. 67 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,000 Meanwhile, a friend of mine told me that there's something in Stella MSW, 68 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Stella, but not the HR specialization. 69 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,000 And I found medical and psychiatry very interesting. 70 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:06,000 And I applied and I got the admission also. 71 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Meanwhile, I got an MSSW to the HR. 72 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,000 But I stuck on to medical and psychiatry. 73 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,000 And what helped me was my father was not in town. 74 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:22,000 So it was kind of. So I just. 75 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:27,000 So he couldn't influence you to change your. 76 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:33,000 He was traveling and I took that to my advantage. 77 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,000 And when he paid the fees, my mother didn't understand much of what was happening. 78 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,000 Just said I got it in Stella. I didn't tell her what specialization. 79 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:50,000 OK. But you had no idea what you defined the choice that is medical and psychiatry. 80 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Did you know anything about what you were letting yourself in for? 81 00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:02,000 I had no idea. I like to be of a catalyst, a change for people and kind of. 82 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,000 That's always excited. 83 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:09,000 And I do a lot of happiness to helping people and being there for them. 84 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,000 When I read through the course thing, it really helped me. 85 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000 And, you know, as a teen, it's very exciting to be in a psychiatric setting 86 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,000 and being a psychiatric hospital and work with things. 87 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,000 That that's what interesting. 88 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,000 That's what it just did. What was the course itself like when you went through the course? 89 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,000 Did you find it met the expectations you had? 90 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,000 Yes. So it was two years. The first year was it was general. 91 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Right. And where you go into they expose you to communities and the most of community work. 92 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:48,000 The second year is where you specialize in medical and psychiatry, 93 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,000 but placed in a psychiatric setting, a medical setting. 94 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:56,000 The first year is where the course you have three days of field work. 95 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,000 So you place you in a field under an NGO and you work. 96 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,000 There's a lot of learning on the job. 97 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,000 The first placement was Kasi made for me. 98 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,000 OK. 99 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:14,000 Not just fishermen and they're also the the underman for all all these thoughts. 100 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,000 So that place is notorious. 101 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 So that's where they placed me. 102 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:26,000 And I came from a very, very I would say orthodox, but all this was very new to them. 103 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:31,000 Vegetarian families can go to Kasi made and all that. 104 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,000 I think my father, he was he was very I mean, they were all angry. 105 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,000 Why? But the rebellion we kind of I think. 106 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,000 And of course, I did not share too much of information where. 107 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,000 So, yeah, I would go to Kasi made. 108 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:51,000 Initially, I found it very, very difficult with, you know, the fish all over. 109 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:58,000 And I just couldn't manage and all the other my friends are all nuns. 110 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,000 And so they were used to it. 111 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,000 And it took a while. But then I settled in very well there. 112 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,000 I made a lot of friends there. 113 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,000 So kind of I like that work in the community. 114 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:17,000 So what were you what are the kind of cases that you were seeing or what were the kind of problems that you were seeing? 115 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,000 So they did at that point. 116 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,000 Yeah, it was it was an urban slum. 117 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:34,000 So the more issues is domestic violence and again alcoholism and mostly these two and a lot of psychiatric issues among people. 118 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:39,000 And mostly it used to be domestic violence and addiction. 119 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:47,000 And so we also empower empowering women was one of our work, you know, the self-help groups and all that. 120 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,000 So that was the issues that we were seeing there. 121 00:09:51,000 --> 00:10:02,000 So you're helping women handle how let's say if you know, if there was a domestic violence issue, what did the women need to do? 122 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,000 Or was it about telling them to, you know, find a way? 123 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Yeah, find a way to kind of empower them because they would be dependent on the husband. 124 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,000 So alcoholism was rampant there. 125 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:22,000 And there was a lot of peddling and all that time, not much of drugs, but you know, whatever. 126 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:29,000 So we used to empower the women. So we used to teach them to make soap oil soaps, detergents and all that. 127 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,000 We used to go to Paris, buy raw material, come, ask them to make supply to those shops. 128 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:41,000 Some income generation, that tailoring. So all that kind of thing used to do. 129 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,000 So my work was predominantly with women there. 130 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:55,000 Right. OK. But you've got a sense of the environment and what this whole, you know, like you said, it is a very alien environment for you 131 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:02,000 because Kassimid is not typically the kind of neighborhood that people even they try to drive past or go past it very quickly, 132 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,000 even if they have to get past into that area. 133 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:13,000 But I guess at some point you understood then that it wasn't something that turned you off. You didn't. 134 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:18,000 It didn't. It didn't. Only except the fish part and the non-veg part. 135 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:23,000 This is again, it's not really. 136 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,000 It used to be like me, for a sari and for a teenager to be in a sari. 137 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:34,000 I feel we had to definitely wear a sari at home. And by the time I reached there, my sari used to be in different, you know, things. 138 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:39,000 So those people used to take me home. The women there tied it properly for me. 139 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,000 And so that it doesn't come out. So it was very nice. 140 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,000 They used to bake something for me to eat. And, you know, so much of love. 141 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,000 But they never understood the concept of vegetarian. So they. 142 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:57,000 I have to keep saying, I don't. Yeah. 143 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,000 Indian to them. What is that? 144 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Yeah, they don't have a seat. 145 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:14,000 OK, wonderful. So what happened after you finished the course and then the second year was in a psychiatric setting instantly. 146 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:22,000 That medical setting. Oh, they really saw cases that was very disturbing, you know, very extreme cases. 147 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:28,000 It still interested me. But somewhere I always had this interest to work in the field of addiction. 148 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:34,000 And at that point, TTK was the only place where you could work and there were not many jobs. 149 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:43,000 So after I finished college, it was definitely I mean, it was a given that they would get me married in a year or two because I was the eldest. 150 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:49,000 And I wanted I started looking for jobs in NGOs and all that. 151 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Father was very, very because, you know, there were a lot of misappropriation of funds with NGOs and all that. 152 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:03,000 So he was not very happy. Then I said, I wanted to work in the field of addiction. 153 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:08,000 You know, we are a very close knit family and everybody felt like it's unheard of in our families. 154 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:16,000 A girl going and working with addicts and it may affect her marriage proposals. 155 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,000 And I had a sister who's young. They took it to a different level. 156 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:25,000 There were not many jobs as well. And then so I just took whatever came by my way. 157 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:31,000 And I got into standard chartered bank banking, customer care. 158 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,000 I like training from there. Within a year, I also got married. 159 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,000 OK. And what was your husband's take on this whole thing? 160 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:45,000 You had told him at some point that this is what you want to just point between me and my husband. 161 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,000 So he is a relative. 162 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:55,000 So it just happened. 163 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:03,000 But when I told him that this is what I wanted to do after we got engaged and all that, there was just pin drop silence. 164 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,000 It was like I narrated some horror story and he didn't say anything. 165 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:15,000 He came back the next day and he said, I don't think you should pursue it because it may affect the mental health of our children or our thing. 166 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,000 Because you would be working with these people. 167 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:25,000 And I think all of them are mind laws and all. They were like a little taken aback. 168 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,000 Then I just got married. 169 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,000 OK, so let's all point between us. 170 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:39,000 You are obviously a person who's used to getting her way and knows her mind. 171 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:48,000 So that's a wonderful quality, because, you know, I think for people who really want to bring about change, 172 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:57,000 they can't let anyone else, no matter how close or how distant, dictate what should be done. 173 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:05,000 If you really want to the thing that it means putting up with a certain amount of strife and like you said, it is a sore point. 174 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,000 But at some stage, hopefully the thing. 175 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:15,000 But I can empathize and understand where they're coming from, because they think that. 176 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,000 It is really unheard of. 177 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,000 And he was like, what? 178 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,000 No, he was like, I was still 23, 24. 179 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,000 And he was almost five years old. 180 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,000 He was like, can we just take it on later, think about it later? 181 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,000 I don't know how this will impact our family. 182 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,000 It's not like I'm going to bring an alcoholic in the house. 183 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,000 I'm going to work there. 184 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,000 So. 185 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:55,000 OK, well, it's yeah, it almost yeah, sometimes I wonder what these because, you know, there are people who take this up, let's say, 186 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:04,000 NGOs who take up things which are fairly difficult to do for people who who look at it from the outside. 187 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,000 But for the people who are doing it, there's a sense of satisfaction. 188 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,000 There's a sense of saying that I am bringing about a change and changing a person. 189 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:21,000 Literally, you are bringing someone back from the brink of something or in cases where you're successful, which I think is a wonderful quality. 190 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:27,000 So then so you got into T.T.K. from there from standard. 191 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:35,000 No, no. After that, it was like I had my son and it just then I my father wanted me to join this business. 192 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000 I joined it was a recruitment firm. 193 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,000 I joined. There's only fireworks between me and my father. 194 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,000 So we parted amicably after a couple of years. 195 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,000 And of course, I needed flexibility because of my son. 196 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:57,000 He was quite a challenge and a handful and required a lot of attention. 197 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,000 So I took up flexible jobs. 198 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000 Then I took on training. 199 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,000 I said, OK, please, whatever I have, let me know. 200 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,000 And I took up more of training and I worked with the company in L.N.D. 201 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:17,000 rules, L.N.D., H.R., employment, employee engagement, employee welfare. 202 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,000 So I was there in 2000, 2016, 17. 203 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:25,000 I started feeling that I should get back to. 204 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:30,000 So I did a course to get back into this field, counseling. 205 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Then I was going I mean, I was counseling. 206 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,000 I was associated with some colleges. 207 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,000 That's when T.T.K. happened. 208 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:45,000 They were looking at someone to kind of so T.T.K. was going through some kind of change. 209 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Our founder had had retired and our managing trustee was there. 210 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,000 There was a little bit of turbulence. 211 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,000 So we so that's when I came into the picture. 212 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:03,000 It was an experimental role that I took on three days a week because people here, 213 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,000 the other therapists are much older to me. 214 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,000 These are people who probably taught me when I was in college. 215 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:18,000 They were accepting younger person and outsider as somebody who they have to report to. 216 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,000 But I managed three days a week. 217 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,000 Then it went on to be here. 218 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,000 Full time. 219 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,000 OK, OK, OK. 220 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:34,000 So I'm sure you come across a whole lot of different, you know, 221 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,000 there could be some situations at home which are similar. 222 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:44,000 But I suppose every case is unique in its own way as to what you know, 223 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,000 why people get down, walk down that road of addiction. 224 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:54,000 You also said that you used to see a lot of alcoholism when you went into Kasi Meethu, 225 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,000 but not too much of drugs. Has that changed? 226 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,000 Of course, that's changed after Covid itself. 227 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Number of cases we are seeing there's been a lot of drugs into the society 228 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,000 and people taking on drugs very early. 229 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,000 So, you know, even minors starting off with drugs. 230 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:22,000 So is that the availability or is it that there's the mental state of the person? 231 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000 What is your take on how people get addicted? 232 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,000 See, it starts with friends. 233 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,000 It starts, you know, with that one for fun. 234 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:39,000 And that's when it just sort of 10, 3 or 4 become dependent. 235 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,000 Right. 236 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,000 After Covid, when the task mark was shut during Covid, 237 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:53,000 I think people needed alternate sources to kind of get high or, you know, for their cravings. 238 00:19:53,000 --> 00:20:00,000 And that's when the drug, it was easy to peddle through children in minors because they wouldn't get caught. 239 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,000 So that's how now it's like. 240 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:12,000 So you're seeing minors constitute one part of the people you patients, they are a fair… 241 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:19,000 They come in as an outpatient, but last month, you know, we announced an inpatient treatment for the minors. 242 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:25,000 And so, though we've not yet started getting because people are… 243 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,000 there is a lot of stigma, right, still. 244 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,000 And for a minor child to get admitted in a rehab, it is taking some time. 245 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:36,000 But we've already started working with juvenile homes where there is a lot of… 246 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:42,000 there is a background of addiction with the juvenile delinquent. 247 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,000 We've already started working with them. 248 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:52,000 Okay. So, I mean, this thing is in some of these cases, especially celebrities and some who, you know, 249 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,000 go through mental health issues or whatever, and rehab has become a kind of… 250 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,000 this thing has to… mal-adjusted people who've not managed to, you know… 251 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:09,000 whether it's the rigors of the job or the kind of lifestyle that they go into, what actually happens in rehab? 252 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,000 How do you… what happens? 253 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,000 So, rehab, yes, there are a lot of rehabs that are not, you know, they do not have the permit. 254 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,000 They are not, you know, there is no supervision or monitor. 255 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,000 But normally in a rehab that we follow, it's an evidence-based practice. 256 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,000 And in fact, we set examples and we formulate the standards of care for the country. 257 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:39,000 So, what happens is we only take in people who have the motivation to change and who are seeking help and who are willing to… 258 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:45,000 So, usually what happens is they go through a detoxification where their medical conditions are managed, 259 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,000 their withdrawals are managed, and then they move to a 21-day therapy or, you know, group therapy, 260 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:58,000 counseling and some re-educative sessions. We have supportive therapies like horticulture therapy 261 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:05,000 and music therapy, art, and we also have a therapy dog that comes in, animal-assisted therapy. 262 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,000 So, we kind of… 263 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:23,000 Okay. So, it's, you know, when you first saw it, when in your early days, when you said you were going three times a week, 264 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,000 what are the first impressions? What is it that first struck you about the place? 265 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,000 As the kind of patients I saw… 266 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,000 I always aspired to come in. 267 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,000 Right. 268 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:42,000 But when I came in, I could sense there was a lot of turbulence. There was a lot of unrest that was going on. 269 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:49,000 And in fact, our trustee, who I'm very close to now, and at that point when I looked at her, I was like just wondering, 270 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:55,000 is this going to even sustain? Because she also did not give me too much of hope that, you know, that I could… 271 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:04,000 She said, try it and see. Let's see how long we're able to last. That was the kind of message that I got from her. 272 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:14,000 But so I had all my options open when I came in here. I was still doing other projects and I didn't want to put all my eggs in one basket. 273 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:23,000 So, that's how. And then slowly we kind of managed to ease in with the team, gain their confidence and everything. 274 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,000 And we brought in…the trustee that I work with has been very encouraging. 275 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,000 And she's given me the freedom to, you know, bring in a lot of initiatives. 276 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:41,000 Because change…to bring in a lot of change is the same. That helped. The support from the trust. 277 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:49,000 Okay. So, Samir, take me through, let's say, without, of course, disclosing any of who the person is or identity. 278 00:23:49,000 --> 00:24:05,000 Some of the cases which have made a mark on you as a person, where you felt that you changed or something within you was different after interacting or managing that person. 279 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:13,000 There are many, many…so, see, especially when…let me just start on a general note. 280 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:22,000 When I see the women bring in their husbands, right, they would have gone through so much of abuse, you know, domestic abuse at home. 281 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:30,000 But still, they don't give up on the husband. Sometimes, you know, you feel like shaking the woman and say, what are you doing with this man? 282 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,000 But, of course, I can't do that. But, you know, you can make out…I mean, there's no hope for this. 283 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:41,000 There are certain personalities, right? There are personality defects where this man is going to remain this way. 284 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:49,000 He is going to have this entitled behavior. But the woman would still be…she will never give up when she be at his best get called. 285 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:59,000 So, though sometimes, you know, you feel like…you feel…there are times that I've been very angry on that person saying, why are you with him? 286 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:06,000 I mean, what is in it for you? But then you understand that vulnerable situation that they're in. 287 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Sometimes, I tell my husband also, I appreciate you better because…and you know, you're getting away with a lot of things because of the work that I do. 288 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,000 Yeah, because you're seeing extremes of human nature. 289 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,000 Right. 290 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:31,000 Okay. So, what is it that people are typically…it's because they are disappointed with the way life has treated them or is it simply that they are inclined? 291 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:37,000 You know, some of the addicts are simply…they get into that whole thing and then they are unable to get out. 292 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,000 They get into it and then they find reasons as to why they are in it. Right? 293 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:48,000 And then, after that, it becomes a dependence and it's beyond them where they are able to control. Even though sometimes they really want to. 294 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,000 And it is beyond them. 295 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:56,000 Okay. And then do people lapse back into… 296 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:04,000 Yes. The nature of this disease, addiction is a disease where relapse is very, very common. 297 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,000 Okay. 298 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:20,000 We also have a relapse management program and we prepare the families to face…we tell them, we empower them as to what they have to do if there is a relapse or a lapse. We empower the patients also. 299 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:34,000 Okay. So, is this typically because, let's say, they are getting back to the same environment? You mentioned horticulture therapy. You mentioned music therapy. 300 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,000 Now, is it that they don't have a chance to practice that when they come back or get… 301 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:47,000 No. It is also like to give them healthy alternatives that can be used as recreation. Right? 302 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:54,000 Now, when…for the family also undergoes therapy while the patient is undergoing therapy. So, for them also, we do horticulture. 303 00:26:54,000 --> 00:27:07,000 So, to kind of nurture a plant for that three weeks, four weeks and associate their recovery to that, somewhere they start associating their recovery to nurturing the plant and we give it to them. 304 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:13,000 We ask them to take it home and they take care of the sapling. So, somewhere that is also therapeutic. 305 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:25,000 Art again with colors and all that. And then people who like music bring in lyrics that they are able to resonate with on life and all and they sing that and play with instruments. 306 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:32,000 That is, you know, gives them a lot of relaxation and of course, the therapy dog that comes is… 307 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,000 So, what does the therapy dog do? 308 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:54,000 So, the therapy dog, her name is Kip Labrador. So, when I came in, I wanted animal assisted therapy very badly and I…luckily, I mean, all these are initiatives that I brought in the other supportive therapies along with our trustee who is quite, you know, broad minded that way. 309 00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:07,000 She is ready for change. She is about 68 years old but you know, the kind of…there is no resistance to any change. She is just open. So, I have learnt a lot from her. 310 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:17,000 So, that way when…so, that is when we started animal assisted therapy. So, the therapy dog comes…these are all rescue dogs. 311 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:27,000 So, the animal assisted therapist who comes relates their story from the rut to…from a rescue to a therapy dog, right? 312 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:36,000 And kind of in some way, we give that hope to our patients saying that you may have been…you are in this condition but there is still hope. 313 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:44,000 And then there are few exercises of grooming the dog that is also said to be therapeutic. The dog also plays with the ball and comes back to you. 314 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:52,000 And when they are sharing about their life, the dog goes and puts her paw on them and kind of…all that. 315 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,000 Oh, okay. 316 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,000 So, fingers crossed. 317 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:13,000 Yeah, I haven't…you know, but the moment you narrated something like this and then you said that…and this ties in beautifully with how you said you started early on, used to pick up everything from crows to birds to… 318 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,000 I still do. 319 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:27,000 You still do. I mean, so, that's like this nurturing, you know, approach has been…I think it's part of your nature which is why you are drawn towards it. 320 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000 Yes. 321 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:52,000 So, and it's one of those qualities which, you know, everyone talks…this world talks of empathy and, you know, having to understand people. But I think you see the side of people that most others, either their own families are not willing to admit it, the patients themselves are not willing to admit it because it takes a long time. 322 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:59,000 I've known of people who have two, three drinks a day every day and he says, no, I'm not an alcoholic. I'm perfectly fine. 323 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:03,000 Yes, you're perfectly fine. 324 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:08,000 That whole…this thing of admitting is actually one of the biggest… 325 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:16,000 First of all, in high denial, right? And sometimes to break that denial is a challenge. 326 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,000 So, what do you do to break denial? What are the things that you have to… 327 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:42,000 My style, I don't confront. I never confront. I'm not comfortably confronting. But I go with the flow. I go with the flow and just keep listening and somewhere there will be a spark for me to hold on to and then start, you know, talking to them about the damages, possible damages that could be the family, right? 328 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:52,000 Because of the drinking. Like today we had one person who said, there's no issue. I earn in crores. I've given my wife this. But the wife is sobbing here. 329 00:30:52,000 --> 00:31:06,000 But he's a guy who if I confront, even his ego will go, you know, he will go two notches up. So, I could be like, you know, smile and acknowledge what he said and then slowly… 330 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:23,000 Then when the wife started breaking down, he looked away. Then I said, you know, then I had to kind of work through the children. Children are always the sensitive areas. So, when I asked how are the children doing, that's what broke him. 331 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:40,000 So, when the daughter, you know, did not score well in her board because she's so worried about the father and when the wife narrated it, he started crying. So, you know, I kind of caught on to that point and he has agreed for admission. 332 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,000 Wow. 333 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:46,000 So, each one will have a sore point. You just have to be like, you know, to catch on. 334 00:31:46,000 --> 00:32:03,000 Figure out what exactly it is. And you know, this thing that you just said that confrontational, this whole thing of advisory, there are these people who will come and tell you, oh, but do this and you will instantly stop. It's not easy. 335 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,000 It's not easy. 336 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,000 Because in something as simple as craving for sweets… 337 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,000 Right. Yeah. 338 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:23,000 We are all addicted to different things in life, except that some are far more damaging than some of the things that we do. 339 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:33,000 You know, it's just that some of those don't have as much of a life-changing condition as, you know, some of the problems that people have to do. 340 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:41,000 So, how do they manage to get them to the place first? How do families actually arrive there? 341 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:55,000 The damages, you know, sometimes we know when people walk in and they're in denial still, they go back saying, I don't have a problem. We know that the person is going to come back in a matter of months because the damages will only increase. 342 00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:07,000 It could be health-wise, it could be psychological, it could be in the family, it could be at work. So, when the damages in the states are high, that's when they come. Stakes get higher. 343 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:24,000 Okay. It's a very sad descent, right? So, in terms of when you see it, when you… It's hard not just on the person, but on the… all the people who are with them. 344 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:41,000 Yes, that's why we say addiction is a family disease. So, we treat the family, not only the person, because the wife, the spouse goes through a lot of… exhibits a lot of psychological disturbance when they are associated and when they're living with an addict, right? 345 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:47,000 So, that's why we work with the family also. They also go through therapy. 346 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:56,000 Okay. So, then what is the issue in most cases? Is it violence? Is it behavior which is erratic? What is the… 347 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:12,000 It's the behavior, it's the emotional abuse in most cases that the wife goes through. And then, of course, there are financial damages where they sell off everything and very poor judgment of financial decisions. All that happens. 348 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:30,000 Okay. Okay. No, it's a… It's one of the things where if you're a bystander, if you're on the outside, then it looks as if people can get their life in order. But I think to the people who are in the middle, it's almost like being caught in some kind of a thunderstorm. 349 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:44,000 That's right. And it just keeps going down and down. Sometimes they hit rock bottom and then they have nothing to do, no other things to do and the only way out is treatment. So, people come in like that as well. 350 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:58,000 Wow. That's actually a far more, you know, difficult situation to emerge from rather than if it's early on where they still have finances and they can get back to some kind of… 351 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:12,000 Only about 20, 20 or 30 percent come like that. Otherwise, it's mostly the rock bottom cases, you know, where the stakes are high, they've lost a job or the wife is separated, the wife is gone away. 352 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:30,000 So, that's when they come as a, you know, as no other option when they come seeking. Okay. So, over the last 15, 20 years, has the number of patients increased dramatically from the people that you talked to or what has been the trend? 353 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:47,000 I would say per se has increased, but number of people seeking treatment has decreased. One is because there are many other… Earlier, TTK was the only hospital. Now, there are many other small centers. So, people prefer going there. 354 00:35:47,000 --> 00:36:01,000 There are psychiatrists treating. So, they go there. But per se, I've got addiction to substances has increased, right? Because of drugs and now prescription drugs, people take… youngsters take on painkillers. 355 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:13,000 They buy over the counter and that's another war that we see. Okay. Okay. So, like you said, each kind of addiction is different. 356 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:20,000 So, people taking painkillers, is it more of a kind of intoxication? Is it… Yes. What exactly is… 357 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:30,000 So, they take in painkillers like crevadol, painkillers used for labor pains and all that and it kind of keeps them high. Okay. 358 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:43,000 They have bloodshot eyes and more youngsters take on to it or they dilute it and inject it. Okay. Okay. 359 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:58,000 I got this is literally having to see a different set of… and okay, what your husband had told you early on that you're going to be spending time with people like this practically the whole day. 360 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:11,000 So, at the end of a day, what gives you hope? What gives me? Hope or how do you maintain a kind of equilibrium or is that something that comes by nature? 361 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:16,000 That is there because one thing is we learn to disconnect. We are taught to disconnect. Right? 362 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:29,000 But of course, there are one or two cases that shake you like I'm… my son is a 16-year-old. Right? And when I meet teenagers and all that, somewhere it chucks me inside when I see boys that age. 363 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:39,000 Last week, I'd gone to the juvenile observation home. My son was out trekking and he was having the time of his life. 364 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:48,000 And I just got off a call from him and he said, can you give me 1000 rupees? Can you send it to GP? I want to go to a food court. 365 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:55,000 I said 1000 rupees for one meal and I just said, I think, you know, it's a bit much. He said, no, I may need another 500 also. 366 00:37:55,000 --> 00:38:07,000 And I just laughed it off and think, but when I entered and I see boys age in a juvenile home sitting with plates, it just broke my heart. I mean, I was like, look at life. Right? 367 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:18,000 So, sometimes that happens, but we learn to kind of disconnect. So, we learn to kind of disconnect and… 368 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:28,000 So, burnout is very common in our profession. So, we also like go on trips, vacation. I take my team out. 369 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:38,000 So, we just disconnect. Even as a team, they go out with families also, but as a team also, we take that time off and go out. 370 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:44,000 That's something that I started, practice that I started. So, we also kind of learn to do things. 371 00:38:44,000 --> 00:39:00,000 No, you're like, you know, to put it in a this thing, you're like the pressure cooker valves. Literally, as far as society is concerned, this is something they aren't even aware of. And these days, I'm saying you can even keep… 372 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:07,000 Earlier, you had this thing where you were traveling in a vehicle and a beggar came close. They could reach out. They were very close. 373 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:15,000 But today, if you travel in a car with the windows up, you don't even… You know, it's like you live in your bubble and that bubble never breaks. 374 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:29,000 It's almost as if you're moving from one safe bubble to the next one. So, for someone like you who has opted, you've actually… I think you're doing a marvelous… 375 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:44,000 Though you can say that this is a passion and the saying I accept that, but I think it's wonderful to have people who understand that this is a job that needs to be done as opposed to, you know… 376 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:53,000 Yeah, I'll… You know, compared to this, the stress of doing the regular job seems almost… 377 00:39:53,000 --> 00:40:00,000 No, I think when, you know, he is in IT and when we compare our salaries, I say, I mean, this is world-small fair. 378 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:08,000 You're all, you know, with programming and all that and we deal with lights. And, you know, that's why I think many of them even… 379 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:15,000 Because to be open, the financial thing is not much in social work with entry-ins. 380 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:25,000 But still people choose to come here because of the passion, right? But many of them are not able to because they can't make that choice, because they can't afford to, you know. 381 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:36,000 So, if you see the number of social work students passing out, like I went to banking, right? But the number taking in social work is less. They move to corporate jobs. 382 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:52,000 I mean, mainly because of the financial… Yeah, yeah. No, you're 100%. I mean, I'm saying teachers, people working in this, in the profession that you're in, are not… 383 00:40:52,000 --> 00:41:04,000 This is not the top scale. And very often, I think it's related. It's… I think in every… Practically in every business, there is this whole thing of who's doing the work and who's earning the most. 384 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:11,000 There's a huge imbalance. There doesn't seem to be a real… And I don't think that there is an easy way out for any of this. 385 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:26,000 Now, look at policemen. You know, they're seeing crime and they're having to deal with being in situations which are not just dangerous, but could be life-threatening at certain points. 386 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:47,000 But it is not one of those jobs which… So, I guess somewhere the motivations are very different. And what we see in a job and what people see typically in a job are so different when you compare professions that it's not easy to just draw a line and then say that, you know, this is how it's done. 387 00:41:47,000 --> 00:42:05,000 Okay. So, how do you see this? You know, as far as you're concerned, you're perfectly happy with the kind of work that you're doing. How do you think that things will… What do you see going forward? What are the things that you would like to do or change about therapy? 388 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:32,000 Therapy… There are a lot of new… New concepts in therapy which I keep asking my team to upgrade themselves, speed up and so that is there. But we're also lobbying… doing a lot of work with the government now. Lobbying in for the change, suggesting things. That is very exciting to be working with the government and earlier… 389 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,000 What are you lobbying for? What are the things… What are the issues that you're… 390 00:42:35,000 --> 00:43:00,000 For minors, addiction centers for minors. Bringing in more exclusive therapy for minors, for addiction, for women and pushing in for more evidence-based therapies and all that. We're trying to set up location-specific de-addiction centers for the government. So, that is a lot of work. I mean, it's quite interesting. 391 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:06,000 Yes, very true. The mix of patients, is it more male or female? 392 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:23,000 More of male because of the stigma again here. Chennai especially has a very culturally… Women reaching out for help less. So, addiction is quite rampant, especially prescription drugs of the content. 393 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:33,000 That's the… Yeah, and this is a Western import. One of the things which has become pretty difficult at the same time. 394 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:44,000 Okay. What about the social classes? Is it more from the lower class, the lower socioeconomic class? 395 00:43:44,000 --> 00:44:01,000 From a not-a-driver to a businessman, celebrities of course we don't really jump in when celebrities reach out because for us it's very difficult to manage celebrities in here because their confidentiality is reached and the others will be more… 396 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:15,000 And with celebrities we can't give them that exclusive separate treatment. But we do give them a personal counseling session. 397 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:25,000 And then, okay, but in their case, what is it? Is it a feeling of alienation? What are the kind of things that celebrities seem… Is it the same? It's exactly the same? 398 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:35,000 I feel very sad when I work with celebrities because when you see them and you know their life, people always aspire for a celebrity. 399 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:51,000 All of us are starstruck but to go in and peek into their challenges and their life, they just are in a situation where they can't go front, back and on. They are caught in a web and it is very difficult to kind of help them through it. 400 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,000 Okay, because there are several dependencies. 401 00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:08,000 Dependencies and then the kind of their work, the kind of challenges they have, the stress, the demands and of course the public image. 402 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:21,000 They can't really seek help for any physical ailments, yes, but when it is… even physical ailments, they are very, very wary about seeking. They have the doctors come in. 403 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:32,000 But like a commoner, you can just walk into any… for any counseling they can never do. So it's always in an unclosed location that we meet. It's like that. 404 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:48,000 Yeah, and you're seeing them in a way, like you said, you're starstruck when you see the glamour magazines and the interviews on television where they seem to be the center point of the world and suddenly when you see them as scared… 405 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,000 Vulnerable. 406 00:45:49,000 --> 00:46:01,000 Vulnerable. Yeah, yeah, it's quite a… and that's the other part that I suppose one of the things about advertising is that you tend to see people before the makeup and after the makeup. 407 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:14,000 Because when they come for a shoot, you… and sometimes when you see the photographs that you've, you know, made the decision on and when the person walks in, it's almost as if, was this the person that… 408 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:41,000 That's right. Every celebrity that I work with, I only end up feeling very sad for their situation and you end up thinking nobody should ever have that kind of… that they're into. And you wonder like, was he or was she the one that I saw on TV and look at her now. Vulnerable. 409 00:46:41,000 --> 00:47:00,000 Yeah. And this is the one part that never comes out. It's almost as if, you know, these media… yeah. Media stories will make references, they will drop hints, but no one wants this thing to come out into the open because there's so much riding on that image. 410 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:19,000 It's like you've created this whole, you know, image that shouldn't be destroyed. It shouldn't be sullied. And I suppose the people who work in the business and you who see the other side of that vulnerability know exactly what is involved. 411 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:34,000 So that's very… so what are the… I was very… I found the whole thing about you using dogs as therapy. So what are some of the new breakthroughs that are coming in or what are some of the new things that you're trying out in terms of trying to break the cycle? 412 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:52,000 The other… like all these supportive therapies are new, which I brought in after I came in and we experimented. Music is one that they all like, especially the women, the spouses. They just wait for the music therapist to come in. They love it. 413 00:47:52,000 --> 00:48:11,000 You should see them singing and with the therapy, the lyrics that they… in a way, it will be MGR's part. MGR's songs and all that. So it's nice. It's like that sisterhood amongst them and they will be together. 414 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:22,000 So sometimes you wonder, is it companionship and a sense of normalcy that seems to define this… you know, I mean the point… 415 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:35,000 Here when the other wives, they all get together, they go out shopping and it's nice. They kind of support each other. It's nice to see and they love to be here. 416 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:50,000 Initially, they'll say, I'll stay only for four days, five days, but then they'll stay on because of the company here and we have children also. Sometimes I love the child also to stay on because both the parents are here and the child may be uncomfortable. 417 00:48:50,000 --> 00:49:06,000 The mother may also be very restless without the child. So I love children also to stay on. So sometimes my room is like a crush. They all just walk in and they're sitting here, sitting there, sitting here, sitting there, but then it's nice to have them around. 418 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:23,000 Yeah, and they do this. So one thing that I'm very particular and I tell my counselors and my team is treat them like a normal… we don't treat them as an addict in society and somebody who's put down… 419 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:43,000 It's like somebody who has a shoe like if he had diabetes or if he had another medical condition, how would you treat him? You have to treat him like that. Respect his profession, respect his experience, respect his background. We never talk down to them. So we kind of give them that. 420 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:59,000 Yeah, and that's definitely one of the reasons why people stay on, I think, because if they felt that they were being patronized or they were being made an example of, then it would work counter to everything that… 421 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:19,000 Like you're saying one of the things is loneliness, companionship, a sense of normalcy which people tend to take for, you know, the smallest pleasures in life are not what people… they somehow seem to think that happiness is some major thing that happens, but very often it's in the very small things that you… 422 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:34,000 Yeah, so yeah, that's why all these therapies we tell so that they discover other options and not… earlier drinking used to give them happiness, so we're trying to help them explore what else that they… 423 00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:53,000 Okay, okay. No, it's… I think what you do is not just admirable, but essential and like, you know, teachers show the way to how a future can be attained. You're actually course correcting. 424 00:50:53,000 --> 00:51:07,000 You're saying, okay, there may be people who are straight, but we are figuring out ways to bring them back to a life which is more meaningful for them and to find meanings in the… Pardon me? 425 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:12,000 Help them, you know, get another chance to live, right? It's not like it's not over. 426 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:41,000 Exactly. No, this has been… it's been so inspirational talking to you, Saman, because I… you know, I was actually wondering how do you go about these things and when we started the podcast, we were trying to see how we could talk to as wide a cross section of professions as possible rather than, you know, these stereotypical definitions of success and what people need to do. 427 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:52,000 So, I have spoken to people who have done yoga instruction and then we talked to an archaeologist. We talked to Dr. Srinivasan of Jeevan Blood Bank. 428 00:51:52,000 --> 00:52:20,000 So, we have… I think the really interesting part is how each person finds a kind of loadster and you are the rebel. You figured out how things were and I'm so glad that you stayed and I'm sure that every single one of patients you've helped and the families you've helped, not just the patients, 429 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:33,000 would have a silent prayer for you every day of their lives because it means that you got them back into the process of living which I think is a marvelous… 430 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:50,000 Sometimes I feel more than me, it's the counsellors who are at the grassroot level, right, who are like struggling with them day in and day out and I'm more on the… on more decision making than the firefighting and all that. 431 00:52:50,000 --> 00:53:03,000 When I look at them, it's like for them it's day in and day out. I think I'm there all around. They give me a lot of… I draw a lot of inspiration from them. 432 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:16,000 From them, okay. But again, they are part of your team and they obviously look up to you for, you know, an understanding and for realizing where this whole thing can go. 433 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:33,000 So, thank you for doing what you do, Samir. It was wonderful talking to you and it was great knowing how much of a difference you make with the simple act of listening to people and getting them back on track. Thank you. 434 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,000 Thank you. Thank you for this platform, sir. I mean it is very interesting. 435 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,000 Please, please. 436 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,000 And your last words by… is very… is really charming. 437 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:54,000 Thank you. Thank you very much and it's wonderful to have you as a guest on the show and I hope lots of people see the episode and draw inspiration from what you are doing. 438 00:53:54,000 --> 00:54:07,000 We have an internship program. So, a lot of young kids are coming in, lot of boys and it's very, very, you know, it's a very… it's very refreshing to see young boys coming into this field. 439 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:16,000 Otherwise, it's mostly women oriented, right? Women-documented and asking a lot of questions and it's not like they have taken it because they don't have an option. 440 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:27,000 They have given percent. It's very, very promising to see young boys here. So, we run internship programs and we mentor and I think we are going on the right path. 441 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:39,000 Great. I hope you succeed and grow from strength to strength and manage to keep this in check because this is a problem that affects all of us, even if you are on the front lines fighting it. 442 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:44,000 Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. 443 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:52,000 That was Soumya and what a story and what a life and what a career. 444 00:54:52,000 --> 00:55:04,000 I think we come across professions like these where they make such a huge difference to the lives of people simply by doing what to them is their job. 445 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:14,000 So, join us next week for another session and another profession. Subscribe to the episode so that you can catch it every Friday at 3. 446 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:29,000 My first job, the podcast is a production from Ideascape Communications. Guest relations, promotions and creative is managed by Deepa Ravi with occasional support by Venu Gopal Nair. 447 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:47,000 Archiving and technical help is provided by LPS Jayachandran.