1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,900 Welcome! 2 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:20,380 AndaleeB Wajid is a writer with a repertoire spanning young adult, romance and horror genres. 3 00:00:20,380 --> 00:00:25,700 Her early influences were, as she puts it, derived from a family of storytellers, and 4 00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:32,160 she has eased into writing over 40 books in just 14 years, and going strong. 5 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:37,720 In a world where the cliché is that everyone has one book in them, Andhalee Bwajid has 6 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,020 a stream inside her, and she taps into it with ease. 7 00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:43,800 What is her method? 8 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,400 How did it come to define her life? 9 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,360 And how does she keep finding the characters who dot her novels? 10 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:56,920 This will be a conversation about how our careers find us at times, instead of us searching 11 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:58,000 for them. 12 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,220 Andaleeb is riffing through the chapters in her life. 13 00:01:02,220 --> 00:01:08,900 This is episode 20 of My First Job, the podcast that covers engaging career journeys, and 14 00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:13,240 every single one is full of twists, turns and insights. 15 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:19,700 I am Venu Gopal Nair, the host of the podcast, and CEO of Ideascape Communications, an advertising 16 00:01:19,700 --> 00:01:22,880 agency into branding, creative and design. 17 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,800 So settle in, sit back and enjoy the conversation. 18 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,720 Andaleeb, welcome to the show. 19 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,760 Hi Venu, thank you for having me here. 20 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:33,640 So good to have you on the show. 21 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,880 It's wonderful to see that in a world where people say that not too many people are reading 22 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:44,960 anymore, you continue to write away and attract a whole new legend of fans and introduce so 23 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:47,160 many more people into writing. 24 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:48,160 Thank you. 25 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,240 Tell me, what is a typical writing day like? 26 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,360 I treat my writing like a job, not like a hobby. 27 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,920 So I take it very seriously in that I sit down at my desk at say in the morning after 28 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,980 I finish my breakfast or whatever at 9.30, 10. 29 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:05,880 I don't write continuously. 30 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,680 I try and finish a chapter or whatever I'm working on right now. 31 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,800 Then I take a break and I have other things also. 32 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,080 I do a bit of freelance writing on the side, some proofreading, a sort of other bread and 33 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:18,560 butter job sort of thing. 34 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,280 I devote some time to that. 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:25,440 But I have like a very structured plan sort of thing, which I try to follow. 36 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,640 Sometimes it's I'm not successful because of various things, you know, family happening 37 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:33,040 or generally, you know, sometimes I'm just tired of writing. 38 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,040 So I allow myself to take a break. 39 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:41,160 I am my own boss and a very strict boss at that. 40 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:47,640 So I think writing so many books and publishing them has been made possible because of my 41 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:50,280 commitment and being very strict with myself. 42 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,520 I'm going to say it just wouldn't be possible. 43 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:59,000 I mean, we talk of discipline, but unless you follow it, structure, discipline and sitting 44 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,520 down every day and getting something out is one of the keys to getting this going. 45 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:04,520 Yes. 46 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,640 You know, people think that writing has this very ephemeral air about it and you know, 47 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:14,440 that it's something very arty and you need to have this muse and all that stuff. 48 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,760 And I feel like it's my job. 49 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,200 So I sit down, whether there is any muse or not sitting by my side, I don't know. 50 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,240 So I just sit down and I write. 51 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,300 I try to. 52 00:03:24,300 --> 00:03:26,920 You summon the muse. 53 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:27,920 I don't know. 54 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:28,920 I don't know. 55 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:35,400 So I sit down and write and I try to like, you know, focus on getting this story forward, 56 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:40,240 especially since I do quite a bit of self publishing and I have to decide my own, like, 57 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:45,680 you know, my publishing schedule every year for me is not just about writing a book for 58 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:46,680 me. 59 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,720 I have to take into factors like putting it out there, whether this is going to be self 60 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,000 published, whether I'm going to approach a publisher, you know, making those decisions. 61 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,360 There's a lot of conscious work that goes into being a writer today for me, at least 62 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,920 I don't say this is the same for everyone. 63 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,040 Like you said, everyone has a book in them and I think that's very true. 64 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,680 But at the same time, I'm kind of feel like I've gone beyond that thing where, you know, 65 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,560 writing, I think it's not just my career, it's my job. 66 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,560 It somehow pays my bills. 67 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:17,560 This is all I've ever wanted. 68 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,960 I just wanted to have a job where I can write stories. 69 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:29,840 And it's wonderful to hear a writer say that it pays the bills because that is the other. 70 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:32,560 I wouldn't say, you know, it pays all the bills. 71 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,680 I would say to a certain extent, I'm, you know, because there are certain privileges 72 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:38,960 that I do have. 73 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:44,760 So I never advise people to take writing as a full time job unless they have certain things 74 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,840 that, you know, that they're not, that doesn't affect them. 75 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:49,800 Things like sense and bills and all that. 76 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,480 So if a lot of those things are taken care of, then you can consider writing as a full 77 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:55,480 time job. 78 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,720 And having said that, I have other things also, like I do a lot of other freelancing 79 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:01,720 stuff on the site. 80 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:07,200 So writing pays the bills, but not... 81 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,640 You know, one of the things I saw, a session that you had done, where you said you came 82 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,640 from a family of storytellers. 83 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:14,640 Yes. 84 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:20,000 I thought that that's a beautiful way of getting the inspiration going early on. 85 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,640 So can you take us through some of those early bits? 86 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:29,160 My father was this sort of very instinctive storyteller, you know, he was an avid reader 87 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,120 and my mother is also a reader. 88 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:32,640 She used to read, now she's stopped. 89 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,520 They used to read a lot of books and I think, you know, so when my brother and I was small, 90 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,280 there was no 24 hour access to entertainment like how it is today. 91 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:46,120 We would trouble him sometimes, I think, especially because we were not in Bangalore. 92 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,880 We had traveled to Kerala for his Ayurvedic treatment for something. 93 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,600 So especially there, we were really bored, you know, in the evenings. 94 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,360 So he would sit down and tell us these stories, which he claimed was from this big book, which 95 00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:59,880 I had never seen in our house. 96 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,720 So he kept saying it's from this big book and everything. 97 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,960 So and each day, so he would stop like at a cliffhanger and he would say enough for 98 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:08,960 today. 99 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,200 So tomorrow, you know, we would wait till that time when he would sit and continue the 100 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,200 story. 101 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,320 And later I got to know that there was no such book. 102 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,240 He was making it on the go, you know. 103 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,520 You know, my brother does that with his kids now. 104 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,600 So he tells stories, he makes it up on the fly. 105 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,440 I think, you know, like even my nani, my maternal grandmother also used to tell stories. 106 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,320 She would recount stories that she'd read. 107 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,020 She was also an avid reader. 108 00:06:31,020 --> 00:06:35,960 She would read all these Urdu stories and, you know, books and novels. 109 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,880 So she would sit down and tell us something that she remembered. 110 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,280 So I think that tradition of listening to a story, listening to something and imagining 111 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:48,440 it happening somewhere in your mind, because that's the thing about listening to a story 112 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,360 is something that, you know, takes a little bit of effort for the listener also. 113 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:53,360 Yes. 114 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,080 Stay in one place and to not let your mind wander. 115 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,760 So I think those things helped me in ways that I didn't really imagine. 116 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,760 And I think when you said that your father was an instinctive storyteller about, you 117 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,440 know, stopping at the points where he knew he'd come back the next day. 118 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:15,720 It's one of those well known sort of marketing strategies that, you know, everything from 119 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:22,360 serials to the earliest serialized novels that used to appear in magazines. 120 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:27,680 You didn't have subscriptions, but you had this draw where the next week would have the 121 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:28,960 next installment. 122 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:34,080 And I think a lot of wonderful writers, especially in the vernacular, came out because of that 123 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:41,640 constant draw that people had from, whether it is Pony and Selvin or, you know, Kerala, 124 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,240 you had a whole lot of writers who did that. 125 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:45,840 That was almost like a selling strategy. 126 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,440 Where did your actual experiments with writing begin? 127 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:56,520 I had this typical angsty teenage growing up where I was not sure of what I wanted to 128 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:57,520 do. 129 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,440 And also for me, talking about, say, twenty five years ago, no, more than that. 130 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:08,760 So around twenty eight years ago, maybe life was very different in so many ways for a young 131 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,200 Muslim teenager who's a girl. 132 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,180 So there were certain expectations from the family about, you know, getting married and 133 00:08:15,180 --> 00:08:16,180 having that. 134 00:08:16,180 --> 00:08:19,360 I want to do something, but I didn't know what also. 135 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:25,280 Along with, you know, whatever I was studying and I got married when I was 19. 136 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,600 Writing was a sort of way for me to just express all this angst inside. 137 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,120 I kind of started writing fiction after I got married. 138 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,560 I had to finish college after my marriage. 139 00:08:35,560 --> 00:08:39,640 The year after that, when I was expecting my son, I was extremely bored. 140 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:45,400 So I just sat and I started writing some short stories for children and I sent it out and 141 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,200 I forgot about it because after my son was born, you know, we were running between hospitals. 142 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:51,960 He was not well for a while. 143 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,120 So I forgot about it. 144 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,840 And then one of the stories got published and seeing my name. 145 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,360 So I had been published in the paper before this. 146 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,280 Those were like very small instances and I wasn't really sure I could do anything with 147 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:08,520 that, you know, because anyone can get an article published in the newspaper, but it 148 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,360 doesn't really mean anything. 149 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:16,320 I started writing these short stories for children's supplement called Open Sesame. 150 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,520 And that kind of, I would say, gave me this steady impetus to keep writing and sending 151 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,120 because they kept publishing. 152 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,360 And then after that, I moved to writing fiction for older people. 153 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:32,800 And I've had a fair share of my struggles in a sense, getting people to notice my writing 154 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,160 was not easy 15 years ago. 155 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,840 So, you know, four of my short stories were in a collection, I think, which Deepa is also 156 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,360 her stories were also in that collection. 157 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,040 That's how we got to know each other. 158 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,040 So it's called Curtains. 159 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,680 So after that, I wrote a novel. 160 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:49,000 I didn't know anything about writing a novel. 161 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,280 I didn't know how to plot. 162 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:52,280 I didn't know. 163 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,520 I didn't know what a plot was as in I vaguely knew it, but I didn't know how to apply that 164 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:02,300 knowledge while I was writing characterization things, which you learn as you keep reading 165 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:03,300 and writing. 166 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:07,760 So I was reading a lot and a lot of Indian books, actually books by Indian authors back 167 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,320 in the early 2000s, Indian writing was not what it is today. 168 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,080 You know, you just had Pooja Banerjee, you had Shashi Deshpande and Jhoopa Lahiri. 169 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:24,040 So I read all their books, I even read even the obscure ones, I used to look for them, 170 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,960 because I felt that I couldn't write a story, I had to write a story that I could relate 171 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:29,960 to. 172 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:35,120 And for me to be able to do that in a space where you didn't really see that many Indian 173 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,680 women featured, unless they were NRIs, like in Jhoopa Lahiri's books, most of them were 174 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:40,680 NRIs. 175 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:45,240 It took some time and you know, some help from a few very good mentors. 176 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,880 And I was writing, I wrote my first novel, and I sent it out to a lot of publishers, 177 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,520 I had to physically take printouts and say no courier it to them and hardly heard from 178 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:55,520 them. 179 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,120 Some, some refused some like, you know, if I was, if I had emailed them, some had just 180 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,120 rejected outright. 181 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,480 There were a lot of problems with that book, I'm sure. 182 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,640 But I felt like I wish someone would take the time, you know, to invest the time to 183 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,240 make that book better, to help me, you know, in that, but that didn't happen, unfortunately, 184 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,960 because I don't blame the publishers, there are a lot of people who want to be writers, 185 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,320 even though considerably less back then as compared to today. 186 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,040 Today, everyone wants to be a writer, no one wants to actually write anything. 187 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,560 They want to have written something, everyone is more interested in the publishing as that 188 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,680 perceived glamour is there now. 189 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,040 Because writing is the most unglamorous job. 190 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,040 You know, you get up and you may not have showered or anything, you will sit and write 191 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,080 and no one knows what you were looking like when you were writing a really good scene. 192 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,800 And that's like, you know, you get away with it. 193 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,600 The life of a writer, but when you're publishing, you're putting your face out in front of the 194 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,920 world and everyone sees you, they have this impression of you. 195 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,400 And I think that's the sort of impression that people have. 196 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,960 So they see only that, that aspect, people from the outside see the last part where, 197 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,960 you know, we finally have, you know, the writer has finished the book and everything and you 198 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,320 know, it's looking great and the writer is looking great and sit on a stage with some 199 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,840 celebrity and launch the book. 200 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,240 They don't see all the hard work that has gone behind that. 201 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:23,720 It took me a lot of time to find a publisher and that also was not a very good publisher. 202 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,320 My first book came out with them and then I subsequently published my second and third 203 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:29,320 with Roopa. 204 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:34,160 You know, I mean, I shouldn't feel foolish about it, but 14, 15 years ago when I started 205 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,160 writing and, you know, trying to get published, I think everyone has that dream. 206 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,440 You write one book and it gets published and you're like famous and everyone knows you 207 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,520 and obviously that doesn't happen right away. 208 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,320 And then it doesn't happen even after the second, third book. 209 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,520 And after that, you kind of realize, okay, that's not going to happen. 210 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:56,460 Let me, I'm going to write because I love writing and it's literally one of the only 211 00:12:56,460 --> 00:12:58,680 things that I can properly do. 212 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:00,440 So I might as well do it. 213 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,400 So I wrote and I published in 2014. 214 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:10,080 I decided I'm going to take a one year break from writing because by then I had finished 215 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,720 writing 10 books and only some five had been published. 216 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,720 So that is, you'd already written 10 by that time. 217 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:17,720 Yeah. 218 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,440 And I was very disheartened with the publishing world. 219 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,960 I said, I can't just keep writing and wait for this, you know, to be picked up. 220 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,960 And I don't even know if it's going to be picked up. 221 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,480 I don't even know if anyone's going to publish it. 222 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:34,200 What's the point of me accumulating all these books like this, you know, and self publishing 223 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,680 was not something I was comfortable with back then. 224 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,140 I didn't really understand how it worked. 225 00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:46,560 So I took a break from writing and that year I had four books come out, you know, so more 226 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:52,380 than this Biryani and a trilogy, which I had a young adult trilogy called Damana trilogy. 227 00:13:52,380 --> 00:13:57,840 So four books came out and I was waiting for December 31st because I told myself, so if 228 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,480 I take myself, I'm a very strict boss. 229 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,440 So if I give myself break, I am very strict about that also. 230 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,440 No, you're not writing before 2015. 231 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:11,200 Jan 1st, 2015, I just started like, you know, so I was like, I can't wait. 232 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,920 And I told myself, I am never doing this again. 233 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,200 This one year break was a very stupid idea because I think, you know, in a way writing 234 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,280 is a sort of addiction also for me. 235 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,200 I had deprived myself of that. 236 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,480 So it's a bit complicated trying to explain how writing is. 237 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:31,440 No, just to interject, I think when you said you took that break, you actually stopped 238 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,240 doing what you really liked doing. 239 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:39,240 It was almost like somebody who loves food and intentionally starve yourself to the point 240 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:44,440 where you're probably bursting with ideas when you come back to it all over again. 241 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,440 Yeah, yeah. 242 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,480 No, but that was like, I told myself that I'm never doing this again. 243 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,520 At the most, I'll take a break for maybe one or two weeks or a month, but that's it. 244 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:54,520 Never a year. 245 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,640 Because I don't think I can last for that long without writing, you know, writing has 246 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:05,120 a lot of psychological aspects to me, for me, you know, so for me, I kind of feel very 247 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,400 good about myself when I'm writing, you know, it's a sort of, I think it's a lot to do with, 248 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,560 you know, whatever the psychologists must be calling dopamine and all that. 249 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,040 It feels good when I'm writing. 250 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,840 So I'm like, why should I deprive myself of that intentionally? 251 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:19,840 Absolutely. 252 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:25,560 Now, when you're writing, when you're actually writing, go ahead and write, let's say a thousand 253 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,560 words, two thousand words, and then stop to review it. 254 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:33,240 Though in retrospect, sometimes what you think is bad when you read four days later may actually 255 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,080 be good and vice versa. 256 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:40,160 Yeah, you know, it's not possible to take leave from a job just because you don't feel 257 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,160 like it. 258 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:48,840 So I sit down and I, you know, if not specifically writing, then something, see, writing for 259 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,720 me means there are so many things. 260 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,720 I have all these notebooks where I make notes. 261 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:59,160 So if I don't feel like doing the actual writing, I sit and make notes, which is mostly me doing 262 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,280 a lot of stream of consciousness scribbling, you know, trying to get things. 263 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:08,560 So if so, in that way, when I get back to the writing, the words flow easily. 264 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,120 So I have notebooks with me, which I kind of carry with me wherever I'm going. 265 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,560 I use them to jot down my thoughts about that particular story. 266 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,640 I am obsessed with notebooks. 267 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,840 Notebook is just for this book, for this novel or this series, you know, so I'm not going 268 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:24,840 to mix it up. 269 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,000 So for that way, I have a lot more notebooks that way. 270 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,880 So I kind of I don't feel like when I sit down to write, it's not about the word count. 271 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,240 The word count is something that I do subconsciously look at when today, okay, so I've written 272 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:38,360 this much. 273 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:43,440 But for me, it's more like, you know, if I'm able to finish a chapter, the chapter could 274 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:49,520 be like, say, 900 words, 1500 words, 2000 words, if I'm in the mood for it, and if it's 275 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,960 going really well. 276 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,840 But sometimes you have to physically stop because you know, it physically hurts to write 277 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,640 beyond a point experimenting with my own, you know, posture and my everything. 278 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,040 So I kind of know that I can't do beyond a certain point. 279 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,840 And my body kind of tells me that it's time to stop. 280 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:11,520 Because sometimes when I start typing, when I'm very tired, I start making a lot of typos. 281 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,080 I know that, okay, this is my brain is also not working. 282 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,080 My hands are not working. 283 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,800 It's time to take a break, you know, so. 284 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,640 So when it comes to your journey as a writer, now you've been writing for 14 years, what 285 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,760 is the internal change? 286 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,060 The reason I'm saying is that in a job with more experience, there are certain aspects 287 00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:30,720 of the job that get easier. 288 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,600 There are certain parts of it which get very monotonous as well. 289 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:42,280 And there are things that keep you going because of some little spark that came out from somewhere. 290 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,960 Like you said, you probably need a break to come back to it to realize how much you like 291 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:46,960 writing. 292 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,980 When you're thinking of your characters, like you said, you make notes, and then you're 293 00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:51,980 thinking about these characters. 294 00:17:51,980 --> 00:17:58,800 And now you're almost assigning one notebook to each plot points and then say, okay, this 295 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,200 is how it comes. 296 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:07,160 Which is, I think, a much more organized way of feeding that inspiration because then becomes, 297 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,480 okay, I know that this particular thing. 298 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,000 So you open that and certain connections happen. 299 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,520 It's very tangible. 300 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,520 And it's not something that's just in my mind, you know, when I put it down on paper. 301 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,760 And of course, my mind, I'm going to be very liable to forget something that I might have 302 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:23,960 thought of, you know. 303 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,000 So when I look back, certain things pop up at me. 304 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:33,080 As for what you asked about the internal evolution over the years, my writing has definitely 305 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,240 become faster in the sense, I physically type also very fast. 306 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,520 So I think that kind of also helps, you know. 307 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:46,800 So that and I think, you know, being able to see the end of the book much before, like 308 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,960 earlier, it was not easy for me to see the end of the book. 309 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,760 And I would have a vague idea of how it's going to end. 310 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,360 If it's a romance, it's obviously going to be a happily ever after sort of thing. 311 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,200 You know, you have to reach that point. 312 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,160 You have to create the conflict, a believable conflict. 313 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,840 And then you have to make sure that the reasons for that conflict are explained. 314 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,400 And then that conflict goes away. 315 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,040 And then the protagonists can finally be united or whatever. 316 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,440 It used to take me a lot of time to figure that out. 317 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:15,800 I would go around in circles. 318 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,360 Now I feel it's faster. 319 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:23,000 I kind of have an idea of how to make things happen and, you know, what to do. 320 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:29,920 I think the technique has improved, the writing is much more, I would say, contemporary. 321 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,360 As I've grown older, I feel like I've started writing younger. 322 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,360 So I don't know. 323 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,360 You can grow much younger over the years. 324 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:38,360 Yes. 325 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:42,840 Because when I was younger, I was writing about people who are, say, my age. 326 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:48,360 I was very disconnected from all of it, because I was a stay at home mother and I didn't know 327 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:49,720 the world outside. 328 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,240 I didn't really, you know, I did two jobs. 329 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,240 I did a couple of jobs. 330 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,120 There was one job where I had to go in twice a week. 331 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,040 You know, that kind of really helped expand my world view. 332 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,960 And for me, all the jobs were all like fodder for my books. 333 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:08,240 So, you know, all the jobs and all the people and all the politics and everything. 334 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,640 So I was like, you wait, you know, it's going to show up in some book somewhere. 335 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,840 It's going to appear in a book somewhere. 336 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:20,600 I was very disconnected from the world as such, apart from, you know, whatever I saw 337 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,880 on TV and all that, or read on the internet. 338 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,040 And I was not happy about that in a sense. 339 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,920 You know, I felt like, first of all, I've lived a very limiting life. 340 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,120 I can't keep writing stories about just like about stories about people like me, because 341 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:36,240 that's not the point. 342 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,440 If I am a writer, I should be able to live all these multiple lives. 343 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,680 That's one of the advantages of being a writer. 344 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:47,640 And I think as I've grown older, stepped out a lot more and observed people, I have younger 345 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:48,640 friends. 346 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,200 So now that I'm older, I'm able to write about younger people. 347 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,320 Like, you know, most of my heroines are in their 20s. 348 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,000 When I was in my 20s, I was living a very different life. 349 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,920 And I was the mother of two kids before 30. 350 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,000 These are girls who are nothing like that. 351 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,680 It kind of feels, I feel very happy about having this altered ego sort of thing. 352 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,000 I think that's been my evolution. 353 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,960 So how do you shift gears? 354 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,240 Are you writing only one book at a time? 355 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:21,320 Or are you saying that today let me write romance, tomorrow let me do horror? 356 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,640 No, I don't do that. 357 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,360 I don't do that because you know what happens is when I'm writing, you need to get that 358 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,160 voice of the character right. 359 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,680 I don't want to mix that up. 360 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:37,800 I do end up starting multiple projects and then I kind of let whichever it is take precedence, 361 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,520 the one that I feel more pulled towards. 362 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,480 So currently, like I would have three projects open in my laptop, two of them might be romance, 363 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,480 one might be thriller. 364 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,520 I try not to mix genres when I'm writing. 365 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,080 Sometimes it helps, you know, because sometimes I do get very bogged down by if I'm writing 366 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,080 romance and romance at the time, end of it, I'm so fed up. 367 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,200 I'm going to convert this into a thriller and I'm going to make them kill each other 368 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:01,200 or something. 369 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,920 So I, you know, so I don't prevent that from happening. 370 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,360 I see which kind of pulls me in. 371 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:10,720 So I was doing that right now. 372 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,600 Also, I was working on two books at the same time. 373 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,480 One book has suddenly gone on to 28,000 words. 374 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,920 The other one is still in the early like 12,000 words. 375 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,680 So I'm like, okay, I'll finish this one first and then come back to this. 376 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,940 But I kind of brought it up to that point. 377 00:22:24,940 --> 00:22:28,060 So it's not like completely starting afresh. 378 00:22:28,060 --> 00:22:30,800 So I don't tell myself that let me finish this and then start. 379 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,120 So if I feel like I need to start, I just start and then I make notes so that I can 380 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:36,120 come back to it. 381 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:41,060 I'm also a very instinctive writer in that, but I also plan things, you know, so if I'm 382 00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:44,920 writing about something, I make plans, extensive plans about what's going to happen in the 383 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:45,920 book. 384 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,920 As a reader, what kind of books do you like? 385 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,400 I like reading crime fiction. 386 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,020 I enjoy romance. 387 00:22:52,020 --> 00:22:59,260 I really like police procedures, mysteries and not that much of a fan of true crime, 388 00:22:59,260 --> 00:23:02,120 but I like crime fiction, thrillers and those sort of things. 389 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:08,080 I like I am my favorite, all time favorite, not a very big fan of literary fiction because 390 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,080 you know, I feel like I don't have the mental energy and the time that it asks for me to 391 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,560 sit down and put myself in because when you're reading literary fiction, you have to give 392 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,060 a bit of yourself also when you're reading it, you know. 393 00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:22,540 One thing I don't read at all is nonfiction. 394 00:23:22,540 --> 00:23:23,540 My son reads nonfiction. 395 00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:24,540 Is this really my son? 396 00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:25,540 How can he read nonfiction? 397 00:23:25,540 --> 00:23:26,540 Yeah. 398 00:23:26,540 --> 00:23:31,200 And I love, I love fantasy, young adult fantasy. 399 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,760 So I basically read whatever I can except nonfiction. 400 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:35,760 Okay. 401 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,840 Are you a storyteller mom as well? 402 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,800 Like your nanny was and your father was? 403 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:41,800 Not so much. 404 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,440 When my kids were small, you know, maybe I would tell them some scary story to scare 405 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,840 them to sleep more than anything else. 406 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,600 So not so much of a storyteller mom and you know, they don't have the patience to do it 407 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,560 with me and I don't have the patience with them. 408 00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,840 They're all grown up now. 409 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,440 Both of them are grown up. 410 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,560 So, you know, but with the younger kids, I enjoy like, you know, reading with them from 411 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,120 a book and you know, with my nieces and nephews and all that, I enjoy that. 412 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:11,120 So. 413 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:16,800 It's an amazing thing as to how you write fiction, but you also enjoy reading fiction. 414 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:23,840 It's not that you're satiated and then you say, okay, I want to go back to. 415 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,120 I come across a lot of writers who don't read much. 416 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:31,740 They want to write, you know, but they don't want to read. 417 00:24:31,740 --> 00:24:37,760 So I find that very strange, you know, because it's like one of the basic tools to be a writer 418 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:38,760 is to read. 419 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,600 So if you don't read, what's going to happen is that you're going to get an idea. 420 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,200 I have the best idea in the world. 421 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,800 If you don't read, you don't know, you wouldn't know that say Stephen King would have written 422 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,760 it like in 1975 or someone else would have written it long ago. 423 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,440 So, you know, if you don't read, then you won't know what's out there and reading for 424 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:03,440 enjoyment is something that really has a lot of goals associated with it today. 425 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,160 Eating for enjoyment is not something that's considered very seriously these days. 426 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,800 People have these reading goals and they have these bookstagrams where they will put up 427 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,800 very aesthetically designed photos of a book that they've read. 428 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:23,720 I mean, I love it when they do with my books, but I'm like, I hope that you read the book 429 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:24,720 also, you know. 430 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,720 It's almost like you're keeping it. 431 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,760 Yeah, it's like you're keeping accounts of how much was spent and where did you spend 432 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:32,760 it. 433 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:39,280 You have a lot of these bookstagram accounts who are doing great work when it comes to 434 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:44,800 promoting books, you know, but it's become this whole ecosystem, you know, where publishers 435 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:51,360 send books to these Instagrammers and they will post, make a beautiful looking post. 436 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:53,000 But I'm like, have you read the book? 437 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,000 What did you think? 438 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,680 You know, when I see the reviews on Amazon, especially everything, everyone wants to know 439 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,240 when the next book coming out. 440 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,720 But I'm like, what about this one? 441 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,800 What did you like about this one? 442 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,720 Especially if it's a series, the connected series, which really does well on Amazon. 443 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,000 That's what everyone wants to know. 444 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,120 We want to know what's happening to the next couple, you know, when is their story coming 445 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,120 out. 446 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:19,680 So those are the things I mean, so reading, I feel like, you know, to a certain extent 447 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:25,320 taken a backseat in the sense there's so much more competing for it, you know, as compared 448 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:31,720 to before, before when we were kids, we just had reading, we didn't have it, you know, 449 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,280 we had TV would come at very specific times. 450 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,120 And, you know, after that, there was nothing to watch on TV. 451 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,480 So for us, our entertainment was TV. 452 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,200 And today, entertainment is not even a question. 453 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,480 There's so much and you don't know what to choose. 454 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,560 So if someone actively chooses to read a book, it's amazing, I feel, you know, because they 455 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:56,520 have put aside, you know, temptations from Netflix and everything else to sit with a 456 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,200 book that our readers today. 457 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,760 What about different forms of writing, maybe movie scripts and stuff like that? 458 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,440 Is that something that you've ever looked at seriously? 459 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:16,480 I kind of want to, but at the same time, I think, you know, I'm a huge loner when it 460 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,840 comes to writing. 461 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,320 I'm not a very collaborative person, although I have collaborated with two of my friends 462 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,160 and we've brought out two series together last year and this year. 463 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,400 That's a different deal, you know, because these are my friends, I can just tell them 464 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,400 anything. 465 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,600 But I think that writing for movies and all, it's an extremely collaborative effort and 466 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:41,120 also physically you need to be present, I think, especially in India. 467 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:42,600 You need to be in Bombay. 468 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,360 You need to be part of that writer's room. 469 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:47,640 So those are things I don't see myself doing. 470 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,360 I mean, if I was, say, 20 years younger, if I was like, you know, unmarried and didn't 471 00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:53,840 have children. 472 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,160 So maybe those are things. 473 00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,560 And if I was from a different, you know, a more open and, you know, open and broad minded 474 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,480 community and family, then those are things I could have pursued. 475 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,520 But I don't feel like I've missed out on something. 476 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,560 So I'm like, it's OK. 477 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:10,920 I'm happy with this. 478 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:16,360 So someone make a movie out of my book and pay me good money and I'll be more than happy. 479 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:18,920 More than happy to see that change now. 480 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,640 You know, one of the things that I've found, which is really different between advertising 481 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,320 films and let's say the real film or books is that you have to develop character. 482 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,040 The character is someone who starts out with a name and a job or whatever it is in a certain 483 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,040 situation. 484 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,520 So you expand on that whole thing. 485 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,720 You give them characteristics, you give them situations. 486 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,880 Advertising relies on stereotypes. 487 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,840 So you've got to make out in the very first couple of seconds as to where is this family, 488 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:47,840 what is the relationship? 489 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:53,480 And 30 seconds later, the story is over, which is why probably a lot of advertising filmmakers 490 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,320 have not really transitioned to the two and a half hour format. 491 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:03,960 But you're a very atypical writer because I think in three months, if you finish a book, 492 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,240 that is not the normal rate at which people operate. 493 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,920 No, I can finish a book in one month. 494 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,920 Wow. 495 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,920 Three months is when I'm being very easy with myself. 496 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:14,920 Okay. 497 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:15,920 Okay. 498 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,280 Today or tomorrow, I will write. 499 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,680 Then I take three months. 500 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,480 If I religiously sit and write every day, then I can easily finish a book in a month, 501 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:24,480 40 days at the most. 502 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,680 You know what you were saying about advertising, but there are a lot of people from the advertising 503 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:36,560 world who are doing really well as writers, who have Anuja, Chauhan, Judy also. 504 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:46,160 So yeah, I think from a very different, I think their approach to writing is very different. 505 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,720 I'm very fascinated by it. 506 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,240 I'm a very different, like I said, self-taught and instinctive writer. 507 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,080 So I find that very fascinating. 508 00:29:54,080 --> 00:30:02,520 That is one of the things which I believe is it's almost instinctive because it's not 509 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:08,640 as if you've got this whole examples at home, which you followed. 510 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:15,400 There was this nice podcast where Nadal Pandey talks about her mother Shivani sending out 511 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,400 the serialized novel to Dharmayog. 512 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,680 And she said her mother used to write at the kitchen table and she used to write between 513 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,160 meals and she used to write between. 514 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,840 So it's not as if she was able to set up a time. 515 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,840 She had to find the time. 516 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,680 She had to sit down and write and then do it. 517 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,040 Writing is something that keeps you inspired. 518 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:43,040 It's something that you need to do because it helps you in so many ways. 519 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,520 See, I feel that women writers have it very tough. 520 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:53,560 We are handling multiple things which male writers have no clue about. 521 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,280 If you're a woman, if you're a mother, if you're a homemaker, whatever, if you're a 522 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,520 career person, then it adds along with all these things. 523 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,440 You have a family, you have people who depend on you. 524 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:11,760 I see male writers posting about how they locked themselves in their room for six hours, 525 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,160 came out with this, I finished three chapters, four chapters, five chapters. 526 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,800 In my head, you won't believe the sort of gullies I will give that man. 527 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,560 Because you had someone cook for you, you had someone take care of the house, you had 528 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:31,320 someone, whether you have kids or not, someone probably brought you food and gave it to you. 529 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:37,840 If all writers had someone who would do all this for them, then everyone would be very 530 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:38,840 productive. 531 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:45,600 So I think women especially, whatever they do, however they do, I am amazed because each 532 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:52,120 one of us has different issues in our houses and it could be a sick parent or a sick in-law 533 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,640 or someone and you have to do that and do your writing along with that. 534 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,160 So your priorities tend to get watered down as a result. 535 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:09,000 So in my case, I would say I don't tell people, look at me, I'm so focused, I'm so disciplined. 536 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,320 If I can do it, you can do it. 537 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,560 I don't think everyone can do it because you need to have that sort of ecosystem around 538 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,600 you that enables you to write. 539 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:18,600 I had that. 540 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,960 I mean, when my mother-in-law was alive, she would take care of the house for me until 541 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,720 two years ago, everything was her domain. 542 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,440 So I would just go, she would tell me, go do and write. 543 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,640 So when you have someone who takes care of that and my kids have grown up, I have been 544 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,480 writing from the time when they were climbing all over me. 545 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,480 I've faced that also. 546 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,360 They've grown up now, so thankfully I don't have to deal with that. 547 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,200 So many women would write so many wonderful books. 548 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,840 That's the sad reality of our times. 549 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,040 I'm sorry I ranted about this, but this is a major rant for me. 550 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,920 I feel very strongly about this, especially when I see male writers posting about their 551 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:01,800 accomplishments and I'm like, very few of them I think are aware of the sacrifice it 552 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:02,800 goes into. 553 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,320 Maybe their wife would have hard work that she would have done. 554 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,960 100% agree, Adhavi. 555 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,400 Everything that you say is 100% true simply because of their gender advantage. 556 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,240 To have so much more going for them because of this. 557 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,560 The strange part is that they don't think it's an advantage because they never have 558 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,180 seen the other side. 559 00:33:25,180 --> 00:33:28,440 As far as they're concerned, that was the way they grew up. 560 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,960 So it was not as if things are any different after they get married. 561 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,520 So that I think is one of the other aspects which never comes into... 562 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:42,520 Behind whatever the writing that happens, so much has gone behind all that. 563 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,380 It's very hard for someone who is not a writer to understand the sort of things that you've 564 00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:49,240 had to go through to reach there. 565 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,760 I mean, I'm not saying all women are suffering. 566 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:56,760 To a certain extent, there are some people who can afford to have help, who can afford 567 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,320 to have people taking care of the bills and all that stuff. 568 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,520 So it's not like a one size fits all. 569 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:08,400 But overall, women have to struggle harder, like a man says he locks himself in his room 570 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,400 for six hours. 571 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,960 If a woman was to do that, the house would be burnt down by the time she comes out. 572 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,960 So there won't be any house left. 573 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,520 So it's very sad that women have to... 574 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,760 I love your honesty, Adilip, because these are the things... 575 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,000 You must find it a little strange that we've not discussed your books at all. 576 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,000 We spent... 577 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,000 No, I'm okay. 578 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,000 I'm not a writer. 579 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,000 I'm not a writer. 580 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,000 I'm not a writer. 581 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,000 I'm not a writer. 582 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,400 I'd like to understand from your point of view, is there a book that you really enjoyed 583 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,520 writing or something that after you've written, after all these years, you come back to and 584 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:51,840 then say that, yeah, this is something where I think I kind of got close to what I was 585 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:52,840 looking at. 586 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:58,280 I don't know how to explain this to you, Vinu, but when I am writing, I really feel like 587 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,640 I am not myself. 588 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,440 I really feel like there is some external thing. 589 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:10,520 I don't want to sound like superstitious or something, only because when I go back and 590 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,520 read it, I'm like, oh my God, did I write this? 591 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,760 Whether it's good or bad, I'm like, I can't believe that I was able to put that sentence 592 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,440 together in that way, because I don't have any memory of creating that. 593 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,920 I've enjoyed writing a lot of books over the years and each year something new I'm bringing 594 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,040 out, so something is a new favourite. 595 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:35,000 I've just signed a deal with a publisher, with Penguin actually, for a young adult novel 596 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,560 that's late this year, I think. 597 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,880 And that's one book which I really enjoyed writing, because I think, you know, I wrote 598 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:48,800 about a very spunky young Muslim girl who goes out and gets what she wants and given 599 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,960 up the situation in which we are, you know, writing about a girl like that itself is a 600 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:54,960 form of rebellion. 601 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:02,280 You know, they expect your heroines to be a certain way, especially when me being an 602 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,640 Indian Muslim woman writer, there's so many adjectives before writer for me. 603 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,120 My heroines especially, people have this, you know, people assume everywhere. 604 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,800 My recently released Jasmin Villa series, which is very interesting, what happened is 605 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,080 I self-published the series in 2019. 606 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,480 Westland acquired it last year and this year in February they brought out all three books 607 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:26,760 as paperbacks and ebooks. 608 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,400 They've done a brilliant job with the covers, with the marketing. 609 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,680 It looks lovely. 610 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:38,080 Since then, I have published quite a few books because there there is no publishing schedule. 611 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,640 Whatever it is, I decide. 612 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,040 I can publish three books today if I want. 613 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,240 The readers were used to seeing all this, but you know, the people who hadn't read so 614 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:51,400 many of my ebooks because people have certain problems with reading ebooks. 615 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:57,000 For them, you know, they picked up those books now and they are like, this is amazing. 616 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,520 We have no idea how you were writing so well about all this. 617 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:05,560 You would have seen my heroines have evolved from what they were when I was writing and 618 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,240 you know, publishing with publishers to when I'm self-publishing, I don't have to answer 619 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:11,240 anyone. 620 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,360 So I would say, you know, the recent Jasmin Villa trilogy, the heroines are very normal 621 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,760 Indian Muslim girls who have these very relatable issues facing them. 622 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,920 Stuff to do with marriage and, you know, they fall in love and all those sort of things. 623 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,120 I find it very hard to specifically pinpoint, you know, which book was more enjoyable because 624 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,560 some of the books were actually very difficult to write. 625 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,920 Especially the horror ones take a lot of time because I always feel that horror is very 626 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:40,920 subjective. 627 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,120 Writing romance is a very universal emotion. 628 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,160 Everyone more or less feels the same way. 629 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,000 They understand when you read about, you know, two people having chemistry or, you know, 630 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,440 gazes meeting or whatever, you understand it. 631 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,360 But horror is very subjective in that what scares me might not scare you. 632 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:03,720 So for me, it takes a lot of time to see whether this really works, whether it's coming out 633 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:09,280 across as scary or whether it's just cheesy, which range of horror does this fit into. 634 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,440 So I find it very fascinating and very tough to write also. 635 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,120 How does it work in self publishing? 636 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,400 You actually do most of the work yourself? 637 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:24,880 When you're self publishing, you're the publisher, you're the editor, you're the cover designer, 638 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,280 if so, if you want it. 639 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,020 You don't need anyone. 640 00:38:28,020 --> 00:38:33,120 But what we like to do is we do hire people to do the cover for us. 641 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:38,120 Editing more or less, you know, we do each other's editing if we are working with friends. 642 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,120 Mostly it's our own self edits. 643 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,240 As for formatting, it's all been made very easy. 644 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:44,680 Technology has made it very easy. 645 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:50,640 You upload a Word document to a certain, say, software and it will take care of it. 646 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,720 It will create the ebook for you. 647 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,560 You just have to upload it on the Amazon backend. 648 00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:01,840 So you end up doing all the work and you end up taking all the money. 649 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:07,640 The thing that I find most interesting, Antali, is through whatever you've told me, you sat 650 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:13,640 and listened, you absorbed in childhood, then you made your first little forays and then 651 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,920 figured out that, OK, this works, this doesn't work. 652 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,440 And then you persisted. 653 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:25,520 In the face of whether it was discouragement, whether it was the family situation or whether 654 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:33,360 it was whatever it is, you persisted and you managed to go through so many genres and experimented 655 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:34,360 with that. 656 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,800 I think the other part is that most writers tend to stick to whatever they find is successful 657 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,880 and then say, OK, my audience will read this, this is what. 658 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,400 You're a writer who explores new audiences apart from yourself, which is refreshing. 659 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,640 And the fact that you've taken to self publishing so easily, because that's another thing where 660 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:52,640 people say no. 661 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:58,480 But then it almost is, it goes into character with whatever you've done. 662 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:04,280 Is that a summation or is it you're missing parts of that? 663 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,280 No, no, no. 664 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:06,920 I think more or less it's right. 665 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:07,920 It's correct. 666 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:16,180 I think self publishing came to me at a time where I wanted to write and not be stopped 667 00:40:16,180 --> 00:40:20,400 by a publisher for telling me that you're writing too much and we can't publish all 668 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,600 of this because they have their own constraints. 669 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,480 No one can publish so much. 670 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,880 And I was looking for a way where I could bring out my books and I could put them out 671 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,520 to the world. 672 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,240 Selling traditional publishing takes a very long time, it takes a year to a year and a 673 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,880 half from the time you sign the contract. 674 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,840 But getting to the contract stage itself is another six months in the works because getting 675 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,240 a publisher interested in your work, then finally asking for the full manuscript, they 676 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:48,240 like it. 677 00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:51,980 Then they try to convince their sales and marketing team that this book will sell. 678 00:40:51,980 --> 00:40:54,200 Then they send the contract and then you sign it. 679 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,920 And then after that, a year and a half. 680 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,920 So I am like, I don't have the patience for this. 681 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:04,520 I mean, I will publish with publishers because there is a lot of stigma associated with self 682 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,320 publishing in India. 683 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:11,320 People assume that because you probably didn't get a publisher, you self published. 684 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,440 When I started self publishing, people were like, but you've been published with Penguin, 685 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,560 with Bloomsbury, why are you self publishing? 686 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,000 I said, because I want to publish and I want to keep writing. 687 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,600 I don't want a publisher to stop me. 688 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,560 Striking that balance has not been easy, but I'm trying. 689 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,600 I was initially worried if I self published so much, will this affect how a publisher 690 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:32,600 looks at me? 691 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,040 For them, if they bring out one book a year, it's more than enough. 692 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,440 And here is this person bringing out say five, six books a year. 693 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,480 So how am I going to focus on the marketing for their book? 694 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,880 So this year when Westland brought out Jasmine Villa in February, I put a pause on my self 695 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:49,880 publishing. 696 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,640 They have invested a lot and they are doing a great job in terms of marketing. 697 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:59,800 So I shouldn't water it down by bringing out my own books, which might compete for it. 698 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,160 Those are certain things that I have to keep in mind. 699 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:08,080 You've so fluidly moved into this whole aspect of what it takes into marketing a book and 700 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:14,400 how the cover design is important and how it sort of gets the core of what the book 701 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:15,400 is all about. 702 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,760 In a bookshop earlier, okay, you see the front, otherwise you see only a spine. 703 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,080 And these days when you're scrolling, you just see a set of covers. 704 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,660 You're not really seeing much more. 705 00:42:26,660 --> 00:42:30,920 So the world has changed and I think you've changed along with it. 706 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,200 And what do you believe is the right amount of marketing? 707 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:41,000 I think writers need to market themselves, especially so it's not easy. 708 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:47,200 So publishers have a lot of writers, so they are not going to excessively focus on you 709 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:52,520 unless you're a big celebrity, unless you have a very compelling story or something 710 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,040 that they know is a surefire hit. 711 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,480 No one can say what is going to be a surefire hit. 712 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:02,240 So marketing is something that writers can't shy away from today. 713 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:04,320 They have to be a part of it. 714 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:10,720 But I also feel again that you need to strike that balance where you can't be so in your 715 00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,760 face with everyone constantly. 716 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,440 You can't tell people constantly like, buy my book, buy my book. 717 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,000 People are going to hate you after that. 718 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,480 The moment they see you, come somewhere, they'll run in the opposite direction. 719 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:28,320 You have to strike that tasteful balance where you know that you are selling your book, but 720 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:33,280 you're not selling yourself and you have to figure out how to make sure that you come 721 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,240 out of this still with a few friends left. 722 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:41,520 So writers, ideally what we want to do is to be left alone to do our writing. 723 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,480 We don't want to be all this. 724 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:48,240 But then everything comes with a set of expectations. 725 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:52,480 So when you're signing the contract itself with the publisher, there is a certain stipulation 726 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,520 about marketing, about appearing for book launches and all that. 727 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,720 And when you're self-publishing, you have to do whatever you can. 728 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,920 So you know, we, because social media is free. 729 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,400 So you know, Instagram, Instagram lives, where we talk or take questions from readers. 730 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,720 So interacting with readers has to happen over time, building a community of readers 731 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:17,400 who want to know what's, you know, what you're working on next. 732 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,960 It takes time. 733 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:19,960 Nothing happens overnight. 734 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,120 There is no such thing as an overnight success because overnight success has taken a long 735 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,120 time to happen. 736 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,000 I am not writing this one book and you know, not writing anything else for another two 737 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,000 years. 738 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,000 Then you, I mean, of course you can go ahead and do that, but it will be very difficult 739 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:40,600 to survive in the self-publishing landscape, especially because here it's like, if you're 740 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,240 out of sight, you're out of mind. 741 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:43,240 Thank you, Andhaleep. 742 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:45,440 Anything that you'd like to say to wrap up? 743 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:50,280 Though we haven't spoken about your books, I think you narrated your journey and whatever 744 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,400 you went through in such lucid detail. 745 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:58,720 I brought in some thing about my books anyhow. 746 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:02,920 I talked about, you know, especially Jasson Villa because it's recently released and all 747 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:03,920 that. 748 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:09,280 So viewers will pick it up because you know, it's a very nice three book series. 749 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:10,520 I think this was great. 750 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,560 I enjoyed talking to you, Venu. 751 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:19,760 I hope that you were able to, since we didn't specifically talk about my first job as Sajwit 752 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,760 as well, even though I did have a job. 753 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:30,320 Thank you, Andaleeb for coming on the show and it's been a real pleasure. 754 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:36,640 My first job, the podcast is a production from Ideascape Communications. 755 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:43,480 Guest relations, promotions and creative is managed by Deepa Ravi with occasional support 756 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,680 by Venu Gopal Nair. 757 00:45:45,680 --> 00:46:03,400 Archiving and technical help is provided by LPS Jayachandran.