1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,600 Welcome to another episode of my first job. 2 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:22,580 Every time we enter a five-star hotel, we struck by the opulence, the decker, the design 3 00:00:22,580 --> 00:00:24,400 and the efficiency. 4 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,300 But it takes a lot of work to make it happen. 5 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:32,320 One of the people who knows this inside out and has known this for decades is Matharani 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,560 Mathais, an old friend and I'll refer to her as Rani. 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:42,600 I'm sure in her class, she's one of those people who is revered, looked up to and admired 8 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,080 by a whole lot of her students who come from different kinds of backgrounds. 9 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,720 And by the time she is finished with them, they're ready to enter the world and shine 10 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:52,720 in it. 11 00:00:52,720 --> 00:01:00,040 This is episode 17 of my first job, the podcast that covers engaging career journeys and every 12 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,280 single one is full of twists, turns and insights. 13 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:11,160 I am Venu Gopal Nair, the host of the podcast and CEO of Ideascape Communications, an advertising 14 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:15,320 agency into branding, creative and design. 15 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:18,200 Settle in, sit back and enjoy the conversation. 16 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,440 Or if you're one of those who likes walking while listening to podcasts, please measure 17 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:24,840 your steps. 18 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,840 Let me bring Matharani on board. 19 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:27,840 Hi Rani. 20 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,840 Thank you for having me, Venu. 21 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,480 I'm happy to be here. 22 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:37,440 I think just before we started, we were talking about how you told people to take a selfie 23 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,400 because I think that's a wonderful instance of how much of change comes into a person's 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:43,400 life. 25 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,280 So when I meet my students, usually on the first day when we have an orientation for 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:54,280 them, my first thing that I tell students is kindly take a selfie of yourself outside 27 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,960 the college now, the way you are and keep it with you. 28 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:05,160 And if you need it, take one every year at different intervals, but take one at the end 29 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:12,400 when you finish college and then note the difference in the person that you have become. 30 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:18,840 I think that's the most joyous time and occasion that you will have about yourself. 31 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,360 And that's really made a lot of difference because there were some students who would 32 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,360 walk into my office on the first day and I would say, what's your name? 33 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,920 And they would not even understand what I was trying to tell them because most probably 34 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:32,920 they were from vernacular mediums. 35 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:39,920 But by the time they were in fourth year, they could walk into my office and complain. 36 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:44,960 And I would look at them and say, wow, I'm so happy you can do this. 37 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,960 I feel so good about it. 38 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:48,960 Wonderful. 39 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:55,280 And I don't think there are too many professions where this before and after is evident. 40 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:56,280 Yes. 41 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,680 I mean, if you've, let's say done a course in mathematics or you've done it in physics 42 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:07,000 or any one of those year one to year four, there's probably no difference in you when 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,000 you see people. 44 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,800 So tell me where did this whole interest begin? 45 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,760 How did you decide in your life that catering is going to be what you want? 46 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:16,760 Good question. 47 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,760 Now I'm from the small town of Mangalore, which hardly anybody knew about. 48 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,240 I'm talking way back in the eighties. 49 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,240 I always wanted to do something very different from what everyone else was doing. 50 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:28,240 There was no engineering and medicine for me. 51 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:29,240 And I wanted to do management and I wanted to get out of this town. 52 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,240 Let me be very honest. 53 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:38,400 And it was my mother, I must tell you, who was an educator. 54 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:47,480 And she was the one who had found out about hotel management in Bombay and she had found 55 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,480 out all these details and she told me about it. 56 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:50,480 I was in the eighth standard. 57 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,480 Then I decided I was going to go to Bombay. 58 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:54,480 That was it. 59 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,480 From the eighth standard I said I am going to do hotel management. 60 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,480 And anytime anyone asked me what you are going to do, I said hotel management. 61 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,480 They would look at me and say, what you are going to become a waitress? 62 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:04,960 I said, I don't care. 63 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,400 I am going to do hotel management. 64 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,800 That's how I ended up going to Bombay from a small town like Mangalore. 65 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,360 Then after my twelfth standard, absolutely green in the earth. 66 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,280 I had no idea what a big town was. 67 00:04:21,280 --> 00:04:23,360 Always a small town girl. 68 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,400 So this is very relatable. 69 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:31,320 When you went from Mangalore to Bombay, what were your first impressions? 70 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,320 I was a super confident person who said I need to take on the world. 71 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:39,320 I was ready to go and I said I was going to take part in every activity of the college. 72 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,320 I was going to get to know as many people as I possibly could and learn from everyone. 73 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:50,320 And oh my God, to tell you the fact there was so much of learning and I must tell you 74 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:56,320 I am so grateful to some of the teachers, some of my seniors, even my juniors, my own 75 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,320 classmates who in their own little ways made so much of a difference. 76 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,320 You know, if I was doing something wrong, they would tell me this is not the right way to do it. 77 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,320 I remember there was a teacher who, I have to tell you this because you know from a small 78 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:14,320 town like Mangalore in 1982 when I went to Bombay, I had no clue that there were different 79 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,320 shoes one had to wear at different occasions. 80 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:23,320 So I walk into my classroom with the so-called bata chappals and this teacher makes a comment 81 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:32,320 in the class and he says, nobody walks into a class with bata chappals, they are bathroom slippers. 82 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,320 Who did? I have not forgotten that. 83 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:41,320 I was a little hurt and I kept looking down and pretending I was not wearing them. 84 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:47,320 You know sometimes we need to listen to what other people say so that we will change. 85 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,320 At 17, 18 you also have a very big ego. 86 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,320 Really hate it when somebody tells you that what you are doing is wrong. 87 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:58,320 But we need to listen if we really need to and I am so grateful now. 88 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:03,320 First day when I went to see the college there was this one girl who showed me the college. 89 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,320 She was my senior but she took such good care of us. 90 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:13,320 Something that you will not see in any other college, took us around, showed us the whole place. 91 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,320 Of course she is pure and she is my friend for life. 92 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,320 She also was my bridesmaid subsequently. 93 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:25,320 But what I am saying is first impression I got there was people care and that is what you really need to pay for. 94 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:33,320 During the four year course, was there something that stood out for you within catering or within the entire business of hospitality? 95 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:38,320 I did my program that only Diptoha programs available in hotel management. 96 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:47,320 I was very interested in food and beverage service as well as to site these lesser extent in front office. 97 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,320 I certainly didn't want to do cooking at all. 98 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:55,320 I remember in the second year when we had to do some compulsory training there were internship interviews. 99 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,320 I told the charge had come in and I remember telling that to managers. 100 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,320 They said would you like to join the kitchen? I said I don't want to work in the kitchen at all. 101 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:12,320 I really was not keen on the kitchen though all my practicals I looked at them as lab and I really did learn everything and I am so grateful for that. 102 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:18,320 People on the outside rarely see the amount of work that goes in keeping a place and maintaining it. 103 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,320 The standards that need to be adhered to. 104 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,320 See the glamour in our industry is for the guests. 105 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:33,320 Now the person who is providing that glamour needs to work so much harder to provide that. 106 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:39,320 One is of course the skill path but I think mostly the two things that will really stand out in bookstores. 107 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:49,320 One is an attitude that you will do something and you need to care for somebody else that you will try and please them within the boundaries that are there for you. 108 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,320 Feel wanted and happy that is one. 109 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:57,320 But there also is a lot of skill one needs to learn so that you can do things fast. 110 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:03,320 I remember this one incident we used to have something called housekeeping practicals and they were for examinations. 111 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:12,320 For one particular examination they gave me a window to clean which was full of concrete on a glass window. 112 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,320 I looked at it and I said I am just going to give up. That was my first thought. 113 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,320 I said who is ever going to be able to clean this? 114 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,320 This was an exact issue. That was my first thought. 115 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,320 I sat back and looked at the window and said how can I say I am not going to do this? 116 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,320 This is what I am supposed to do. I am going to do it for the best of my ability. 117 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:39,320 I got the highest marks then mostly probably for the attitude that I had that I was going to clean that whole thing. 118 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,320 That always comes back to me when I am thinking that that has helped me in good stay. 119 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:49,320 Sometimes when you look at things it looks like a huge problem and you say you are going to do it at all. 120 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,320 Think back and say this is a problem there has to be a solution to it. 121 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:58,320 That is an attitude you learn. What is it that you want everybody who is in the industry to invite? 122 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:04,320 You finished your diploma in catering from Bombay. What were the things that were going on through your mind? 123 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:12,320 I had decided that I had stayed in Bombay. One good thing about what I had schooled was in the 80s when I was there. 124 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:18,320 I was in college from 82 to 85. Every year for a month or two I worked in a hotel. 125 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:25,320 That was wonderful. Though they called us interns and trainees it was a great experience of what is really going on. 126 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:31,320 It was also a good way to network. In the first day I was trained in West End which was that time with the Spencers. 127 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:37,320 Now it is with the TARCH. In the second year I trained as a waitress at Rangoli. 128 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:45,320 It was a small restaurant in NCP. Beautiful. By the time I was in the third year I decided I have had enough of Bombay. 129 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:52,320 I have seen the Bangalore. I want to go to Delhi. Only beautiful interviews that were all coming in from Delhi. 130 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:59,320 Luckily for me all the headquarters of all the major teams like ITBC, ITC, Oberoi were all in Delhi. 131 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:05,320 That made a lot of difference. We used to have campus interviews. I must say I think I got into all those campus interviews. 132 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:17,320 Finally of course I chose ITC Welcome Group because Welcome Group then decided that for the first time most of the hotel chains would never take diploma holders as their management training. 133 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:25,320 Somehow they would only take graduates till then. It was Welcome Group who decided that they would first come and try out the diploma holders to see how we would turn out. 134 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:30,320 We were the first batch. We were four of our screeners who had gotten from the Bombay Ketri College. 135 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:36,320 Totally we were a batch of 12 of us from the various colleges as well as some in-house people from ITC. 136 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,320 I landed in Welcome Group, Mauresh Eddington in Delhi. 137 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:50,320 When my dad said, how is it that you are getting all the jobs in Delhi? I was telling him, what to do dad? All the headquarters are in Delhi. That was my story. 138 00:10:50,320 --> 00:11:03,320 As a trainee, how did you handle difficult customers? When you are out on your own, you don't have the experience and you come across a particularly rude or an unfeeling customer. 139 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,320 Okay, let me put, I have to give you a little bit of what this training was all about. 140 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:21,320 I think that was one of the best things that I really went through. It kind of molded my entire ideas of how to look at this industry. They put us through all the, there were a few classroom sessions. 141 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:32,320 We were like these waves from all these diploma colleges. They had to kind of get us into the culture of what Welcome Group was all about, which was very good. 142 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:41,320 Then they put us in every department. I worked in the kitchen, in front office, in housekeeping, in food and beverage service. 143 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:49,320 Also in engineering, kitchen, stewarding, departments you may not have heard, food and beverage controls and stores and everything. 144 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:56,320 To such an extent, I have also done the job of a bell girl, a room attendant. What it makes you do is this. 145 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:08,320 That when you're doing that job, you know you're not going to do it for the rest of your life. You're going to do it just for a week. But the best part about it was you internalize what you feel when you're doing those jobs which nobody really wants. 146 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:15,320 Nobody sees them. But if those jobs are not done correctly, you cannot do service and you can't provide the last week. 147 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:22,320 I have such great regard for people who have to go for the rest of their life. It taught me how to deal with those people. That is one. 148 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:31,320 Second, how to do things right the first time. So one day we were in housekeepers uniforms, these maids, chambermaids uniforms. Next day we were in managers uniforms. 149 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:41,320 So the same guest who saw us, I was, you were there in that uniform yesterday and today you're in a manager's uniform so we have to show our badge and say, oh we're hotel management training. 150 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:53,320 It was a really good experience and my first day in the kitchen I have to tell you this. The kitchen is one department in the hotels. All your meats are taken and cut to the sizes or shapes that you need. 151 00:12:53,320 --> 00:13:00,320 So on the first day they said, oh aagai bandhi. Their attitude was you're going to become a manager, you better learn how to do. 152 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:11,320 They gave me 250 chickens. They told me you need to skin these in one hour and they had this look on their face that you're never going to be able to do it girl. Let's see how you do it. 153 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:20,320 Unfortunately they didn't know what Rani Mathias was all about. I was running for practice. When I did it, of course the next day I was massaging my arm. 154 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:33,320 You know then the respect they had. You're the person who really knows what she's doing and that's the reason why I keep telling people learn the skill. It's very important when you need to show people that's what they call you. 155 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:43,320 That's very evident Rani that you have a lot of fans and your own work ethic and your skill has defined. How long were you at Welcome Group? 156 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:56,320 I was with them for three years. I trained with them at Mauria Sheraton and then got posted to Chola Sheraton and my first posting I think in 1985, no not 1985, 1986 in November. 157 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:09,320 My first job really was that of a nightclub manager. I was not even 22. I have to tell you this story. I celebrate my 22nd birthday and one day and that too on Christmas night. 158 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:20,320 All my staff, there are guests waiting. In fact I was in charge of this restaurant called Sagaris. It was a very well known nightclub in Chennai then. That was Madras at that time. 159 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:31,320 There are guests waiting. All my waiters and the captains, everyone this side just not do anything. So there are tables which have not been cleared. People are waiting and everyone is doing their own thing. 160 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:45,320 So I decided now this is not happening. I can't agree. So I went around clearing tables, setting the tables, not saying anything, taking the orders, seating them all off and just continuing as if nothing had really gone wrong. 161 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:56,320 Believe me Venu, I've never had any problem in that restaurant after that because they could not believe that there was someone that young who could actually do whatever was needed in the restaurant. 162 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:11,320 When I was there I also had to move to front office because I got married then in 1987. I was doing this crazy shift when I joined Chola. We were just three managers. We used to have complaints in the room service. 163 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:25,320 So all the managers said sorry, one of us always stays back in the night and handles room service in the morning. And they looked at me, nobody even thought, okay here's a woman, she needs to go home. Nothing. In fact those days there was gender parity. 164 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:38,320 So I said fine, I'll stay back in the night and in the morning I will take care of room service. Then come back to my restaurant in the afternoon as well as in the night and this went on I think till about two weeks before I got married. 165 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:49,320 So I had to then go to the general manager and say, you know this is not happening. So and then when I got married and came back then they said please come and I joined. So it was a totally different thing. 166 00:15:49,320 --> 00:16:02,320 I was there as assistant manager doing what is called as an afternoon shift from one o'clock till ten o'clock in the night every day. Then we shifted to Manjaroor in Mangalore. That's when I was expecting my little fellow. 167 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:15,320 So I think I was walking around with this huge stomach in the lobby and the guests could see my son kicking. And that's when Welcome Group school, Welcome Group had started workshop and they desperately needed teachers to teach. 168 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:22,320 So I said then my general manager said I think you better go there and teach instead of walking around here in the lobby and all the guests getting bothered. 169 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:38,320 I moved to workshop then to teach students front office. I think I started teaching if I'm not mistaken in beginning of 88. So I have really speaking at the luck of teaching the first five matches of Welcome Group school. 170 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:48,320 Effectively, I should say the first five batches of hotel, BHM what they call as the bachelor of hotel management in the entire country because only Mangalore University had BHM then. 171 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:53,320 Tell me did this taking the initiative come instinctively? 172 00:16:53,320 --> 00:17:01,320 With me I realized I'm one of those persons I don't sit there and grumble about life. I have one motto in life. You have only one life to live. So live well. 173 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:13,320 There's no point in wasting your energy on things that you cannot change. You will get angry. Yes, I was very angry when I had to quit the hotel line because my child was born, my husband was saving. 174 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:26,320 Not that I wasn't angry with myself and the situation that I was in. But then I realized what is the point of being angry? Life is still to be lived. And what else can I do? I never believe me. I never wanted to get into teaching. 175 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:37,320 In fact, in college, when somebody tried to sound me out in the final year saying that would you like to do this? I will never teach. All that I've said I'll never do. I ended up doing. 176 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:46,320 When you sit back and start thinking, I said there's no point in crying. Let me just do the next best thing. I can't be in the industry. I've learned so much. 177 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:54,320 And since Mangalore had started hotel management colleges, in fact, Mangalore was the first place to start hotel management college. I have this funny story. 178 00:17:54,320 --> 00:18:00,320 I was one day teaching in one college. By the end of the week, I was teaching in all the hotel management colleges in Mangalore. 179 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:05,320 You must have been really qualified and trained and experienced. 180 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:15,320 Exactly. In fact, somebody told me you're overqualified ma'am. I said I don't mind. I just need to do something. That was amazing. And that's when I realized, okay, I can teach. 181 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:27,320 Teaching is, you know, you kind of have to sit back and think. Remember, you're in charge of somebody else's life effectively, you know, what they're going to learn. 182 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:35,320 There's a lot more responsibility there. Most people don't take that. I used to see my mother doing it as a teacher. 183 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:48,320 I remember how much of trouble she took with the students with the teaching. She would prepare every day for classes. And that is something that I did. Even after 20 years of teaching, I would never go into a class without preparing for a class. 184 00:18:48,320 --> 00:19:01,320 The person who vowed that she would never teach ended up teaching. What is it like in the initial years in Sarosh when you took over? You must have been one of the youngest principals ever. 185 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:11,320 Yes ma'am. In fact, I'll tell you what had happened. When I was called to see the college and be the principal, I looked at this person who called me and I laughed. And I said never. 186 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:23,320 I kept quiet about it. I was barely about 27. Then I went to my mother one day. My husband was sailing then. I said, you know, these heg days have actually called me to run the college. And I said no. 187 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:39,320 She looked at me and she said, are you nuts? And these are the words she used. Are you nuts? You are qualified. Nobody gets asked for something like this. And they are the best people to work with. Why do you not just take it up? 188 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:53,320 So when she told me that, I said let me think about it. And I went for the interview. I still remember. I told her they were all looking at me. I had half a mind to tell them, you know, I'm just come here in place of my mother. 189 00:19:53,320 --> 00:20:07,320 Also her parents have come and asked where is the principal? I said no, she's just gone out. So then I went and told them very, very clearly. I said see I have barely not run an institution. I am an administrative person. 190 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:18,320 I am from the hotel in Las Vegas. One thing I can tell you, I have taught in so many of the colleges. I know what not to do. I may not know what to do, but I certainly know what I should not be doing. 191 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:31,320 Another thing I told them, I said see I'm going to make a lot of mistakes. I want you to stand by me strongly. You can take me into the office and say whatever you want to say and you know face me. But in front of my staff and students, please stand by me. 192 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:48,320 And I must tell you that Mr. B.R. Hegde was our trustee and my mentor especially. You know he told me one thing which I really, I thought he was so wise. He said, he said Mrs. Mathias, he said only people who do nothing make no mistakes. 193 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:59,320 It's okay you make your mistakes, but please tell us whatever you have done so that we will be able to match. Before I would do something, I would actually go to him and say you know is it okay if I try and do something like this? 194 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:10,320 And he would say yes, but and would be a totally different perspective. And at this stage I must tell you, very few people are very lucky to get very good mentors. Okay, I've been very lucky to all. I must say. 195 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:25,320 You know whenever I've needed someone, help has just come. That's what I'm really grateful for. I remember in college one or two teachers, one Mr. Shetty, at the right time, you know he kind of mentored me and not even know about it but he did. 196 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:38,320 There was some teachers who just motivated you even without knowing that they motivated you. Some of my own students have come and told me certain things. You know, said ma'am this is not right what you're saying and I've accepted it. 197 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:48,320 Which is fine because sometimes you know you do things and you are on a different level and they are on a different level. So I start one tool. I say these are the rules we will have in the college. 198 00:21:48,320 --> 00:22:03,320 If you think they're redundant, we'll take them off. Please convince me. But if you cannot convince me, I will convince you and once this is good, the rule is sacrosanct. I will monitor and I will support. 199 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:12,320 And then I also told them another thing. Let's follow the rules of the world because you're all going to get into business. You're not a thief until you're caught. So you need to be very careful. 200 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:24,320 If you do things I don't know about it, good for you. That is the way of the world. I'm very happy for you. I get to know about it, you're crucified. And one or two of them gave themselves on platters to be crucified. 201 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,320 Tell me how the curriculum evolved or how your teaching evolved. 202 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:46,320 This is where I am one of these people. I am somehow hardwired to tell the truth the way I see it. I will explain why something is wrong. But there's one more thing that I learned when I was in wealth which I think was very very important and that could be very important to everybody who is listening here. 203 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:59,320 On the first day when we joined wealth of group, the member development manager who was Sudhiraj, he came to all of us and he said you are now managers. We will treat you like managers. So you need to start thinking like managers. 204 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:08,320 And the difference between staff and managers is only this. The job is the same. But the difference is in the thinking. Managers will come with solutions to problems. 205 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:20,320 We may not accept your solution but come with the solution because that shows that you are thinking. And I think that really stood in very very good stead and that was the same thing that I told the students also. 206 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:40,320 When I came into the college, I looked at the syllabus and I realised it was purely pathetic. Pathetic in the sense that students were doing financial accounts that of CAs in a three year program, marketing of marketing managers, engineering of engineering students. 207 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:58,320 Okay and they were not doing enough in terms of what else really required. I wrote a six page letter to the VC mentioning exactly what was wrong. How to correct it. The person that I am, I also said in the end, since I have opened my mouth, I am willing to be part of the change. 208 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:16,320 I think the VC actually read it. Somebody came to check our college institutions. The person who came to check because all our colleges are, there is a commission, the inquiry committee that comes in. So the head of this committee told me, he says ma'am is there anything that you want changed in the program. 209 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:29,320 So I told him sir, I am willing to write and tell you. This was in the evening. He says I am meeting the VC tomorrow morning. If I give it to you and write it and give you 100 rupees, he said yes. I know in those days we were typewriters. There was no computer. 210 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:39,320 I typed it and I gave it to him and the VC called for a meeting within a week and he said is this true for all the principals. And everyone said yes. He says why was I not old. 211 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:57,320 I am so grateful to the VC. Then he looks at me straight, I am the youngest among all these teachers. He looks at me and says since you opened your mouth, I am putting you in charge. You get it all sorted out the way you think it needs to be sorted out within a month and bring it in the next academic year. 212 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:12,320 And he did that. And I must tell you, you know our education trust, our president Mr. Vinay Akde, when I told him this was happening, he says go ahead, do it. You know we will give you all the resources you require. Don't worry about the expenses. 213 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:24,320 And we were sitting for one month. You know that time they needed 50 copies, cyclo style. I can't tell you. We were giving breakfast, lunch, dinner to anybody who was there who was doing the work. 214 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:40,320 And we were able to bring in the change. And I keep telling people, when you are in a position to bring about change, when you know that something is wrong and you know how to correct it, open your mouth, tell people. You never know when somebody is listening and you can bring about it. 215 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:55,320 And the problem I think is where people do not care enough or they are too scared to bring about the change. I think that's the crucial part that a lot of people have solutions but they are not prepared to put in the work to make those solutions happen. 216 00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:08,320 Absolutely. And you need to know that it's the mind. It's one thing to say this is what is wrong and then the question is so what are you going to do about it and then that's the point at which a lot of people step back and then say no, that's not my problem. 217 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:25,320 Yes. I am really grateful to Mr. Sudhir Andrews. I don't know where he is now but I am so grateful for what he told us. And I think about when he was listening, I don't know whether everyone took it to heart but I thought that was one of the best things, best learnings ever. 218 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:35,320 Personally believe that this is what I will do. If I can, if I know it can be changed and I can be the agent of change, I will go ahead and say, now of course I am older, I don't have that zest. 219 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:49,320 Do you think the culture of a place is reflected by the person who is heading it or is it something where it comes down as a set of, okay this is how we do things or do you think that it keeps changing with time? 220 00:26:49,320 --> 00:27:17,320 Okay, that's a good thing that you asked me. I must tell you when I started the college, I first caught hold of, we were just three, four of us. Started with 11 students, the 12th one joined second year. We were two of us teachers and there was another part-time teacher. There would have been one attender. I said I am from the hospitality industry. I do not know how colleges are run. I don't want to run the college link, all other colleges are run. We are going to bring in the hospitality culture. We are not going to be pressing the bell for the peons. Let him do his own job. 221 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:29,320 I even went to Mr. Hegnan, I told him please give me a computer, I will type my own letters because this is ridiculous. I am not going to dictate the letters, then correct what she is doing, I would rather with them myself, it saves us a lot. 222 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:43,320 The other thing that I told everybody in the college, I said when you are meeting parents, okay and then you are meeting students. Let's not have this government attitude. I am sorry I am saying this but we are being very honest. Let us put everything together. 223 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:54,320 Tell them this is what you need to bring. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and let's give them a time and let's finish it up within that time because everybody's time is important. 224 00:27:54,320 --> 00:28:03,320 And I said look at every student and this is what I keep telling you. See we are a self-financing college and I said look at every student as your salary. It makes a lot of difference. 225 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:13,320 The minute you look at everybody, every customer as your salary, every student as your salary, you look at everyone, your entire thinking changes. So I would allow anyone to walk into my office and say anything. 226 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:23,320 Only thing is I made very sure I told the students you have to learn a few things, knock on the door, okay, say may I come in and say good morning madam or good afternoon or whatever. 227 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:36,320 If you are writing a letter, write it properly and I have corrected them. You need to correct, go write it again and bring it back. I was just walking and I said will you please go out, knock on my door and please come in. 228 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:44,320 I think this culture needs to be brought in and I am happy that it is continuing. See ours was also a hospitality industry so it was easier. 229 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:51,320 And Saurosh, the institution has always been self-financed. The students pay their full fee. 230 00:28:51,320 --> 00:29:09,320 So the students which is perfectly fine, I have nothing against that. We received everything. In fact there was a joke in this college that I realized I had gone to Singapore many many years ago and I said I love the fine culture because it is only one thing that students understand. 231 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:21,320 Students understand fine. I would tell them these are the rules, you don't follow the rule, I am going to fine you. I will give you a receipt for the fine. That receipt would go into what is called as the student activity fund. 232 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:29,320 We would bring out a college magazine and I told them on the last page we will write your names as saying that we thank our sponsors. 233 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:42,320 Please explain to your grandchildren when you show this book as to how you are sponsored. That is a really neat sponsorship idea. 234 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:49,320 The unwilling sponsor and somebody will never forget why their name is in that particular. 235 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:59,320 Exactly. Once the whole happens, they don't believe you. So they break the rule. So you need to be very firm the first time. 236 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:06,320 If you are very firm for the first two times then the message passes down and this is how it happens. So the message goes for the first three years. 237 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:13,320 Then people forget. Then somebody else on the fourth year will try again and again you do the same. So that really works. 238 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:22,320 See the other thing, at least as far as let's say from 20-30 years ago versus today, the obsession with placement. 239 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:32,320 I don't think it was as strong as it was 20 years ago. People kind of felt that they could get a job and today what is the change that has happened there? 240 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:40,320 How have you managed it? Let me put it this way. I have always believed that I told the students. Many parents would come and say are you guaranteeing a job? 241 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:48,320 And my simple thing was if I had to attend the interview, I would guarantee you the job. I am not giving you any guarantees. 242 00:30:48,320 --> 00:31:00,320 But what I will guarantee you is this. If your student follows whatever we are doing here in the college, takes part in all the activities, takes part in everything that is there, I can assure you. 243 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:10,320 I can guarantee you that you will be employable. Now this is something you really need to go from getting a job to be employable. There are two different things. 244 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:25,320 Having a job is not security. Being employable is security. Believe me and I am really very happy to tell you, I had students who thought I was a tyrant and believe me my younger days I was a tyrant in the college. 245 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:35,320 I was really a tyrant. But I would also explain to them why I would do so. Because college was sacrosanct and I must say that some of their functions I have also taught them how to dance. 246 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:45,320 But that is behind the thing. Because we have a hospitality institute, I don't think you needed to stand on your high horse and say you are a teacher or I am there or I have a principle. 247 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:53,320 That doesn't work anymore. That culture doesn't work anymore. What you do is that you give them skills. We have different activities for different levels of students. 248 00:31:53,320 --> 00:32:03,320 Like I tell you our first years we will conduct maybe on a hospitality day we will go to an ashram and feed them. They will cook and they are pooling in the money. 249 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:15,320 So what happens is it is nice for them also to know that there is another lot of kids who cannot afford. So you are also getting empathy. You are getting them to know other students. 250 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:26,320 The second years are supposed to conduct our intercollegiate competition. The third years of course they do a themed dinner where they will plan everything just like in a restaurant. 251 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:35,320 And the final year will have different. So you need to have activities. That is what you really do. So that you can get them to be made employable. And I think that's sort of that. 252 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:45,320 That's an amazing point. When you know people are good. You need to give them the freedom to go ahead and do whatever they are capable of. 253 00:32:45,320 --> 00:33:00,320 I know for sure that I'll give this a double vote. You are a super chef as well. Being a great chef in addition to being all of this because yes it is part of the overall hospitality industry. 254 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:10,320 But for some people that alone is a passion. Or they say I like interacting with people. The entire experience is not. It's a combination of all of these things. 255 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:25,320 It's not. You can't just take one ingredient. You can't take a great dish and say I like only this aspect of it. Sometimes that has to be there because that's what gives it the depth of flavor or whatever it is that needs to get. 256 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:36,320 Absolutely. Very true. And that is why for me and this I learned from my mother. And she didn't tell me. I once watched her taking a class. She just told me one thing. 257 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:48,320 She said you know even if the teacher is boring learn to listen because that will imbibe discipline in you. And no learning is wasted learning. I really was not interested in cooking at all. 258 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:57,320 I did it in hotel school only because you know it was a very major subject. There was a recipe you followed. It came out very well. But when I joined the hotel and I went and told them. 259 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:06,320 I told these chefs I was among 250 chefs I was the only girl there at Moria. And I went there with this chip on my shoulder so I'm never going to join the kitchen. 260 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:15,320 And I really don't like cooking. So there was this one chef who said no by the time you finish with us you will really enjoy. And believe me I really started enjoying. 261 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:27,320 What did they do differently? One is they made me open my eyes to the real ingredients which were not available in the cart. They taught us technique. They said make mistakes. 262 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:40,320 I was in 1985. I had taken 2 kgs of chocolate which was like limped kind of you know really great chocolate. The chef told me go and melt it. I had never worked with chocolate. 263 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:51,320 I take this 2 kgs of chocolate and put it on fire. That is one thing that you never do. That 2 kgs of chocolate burned. I think I got saved from being kicked only because I was a woman. 264 00:34:51,320 --> 00:35:03,320 So it wasn't burnt caramel it was burnt chocolate. I burnt chocolate and you know with anything else which is burnt you can save it. Burnt chocolate has to be thrown in the dustbin. You cannot do anything with it. 265 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:14,320 And after all the processes that we went through that level. But you know I learnt. That is when I realised I have to ask. If I don't know you need to ask. There is no shame in asking. 266 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:25,320 And that is when of course I really was exposed to international chefs. There was an Irish food festival and I didn't taste such wonderfully tasting Irish food. 267 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:33,320 Till then all this pot and little food was very glad. That is when I realised there is a way to bring up flavour. And that is what you really need. 268 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:42,320 And then of course cooking is good. At least you know what is going into your own food. That is something and I truly believe now is a gender neutral life skill. 269 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:58,320 Especially today where irrespective of where you are you are a student at some point in time and rather than eat out or keep ordering I think the best thing to do is to rustle up something yourself and it has got so insanely easy to make food. 270 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:08,320 The ingredients are available. Devices are available. Not only that I see YouTube and social media has developed so much of information. 271 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:15,320 I have seen people using an excuse saying that if you can't cook you are not cooking after yourself. I can't cook. I can cook is a very good thing. 272 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:32,320 Which I would expect. Because you do the same kind of management skills that you bring to bear in running an entire organisation. I would be very surprised if you didn't use some of those techniques at home. 273 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:38,320 My husband is not going to watch this show and I am never going to let him watch this show. 274 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:44,320 Students who are entering the field today what are the things that they have to content with going forward? 275 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:52,320 Upper middle class families, you are coming from A class cities and metro cities and all that. You are exposed to a lot. 276 00:36:52,320 --> 00:37:08,320 What a hotel management program really does is it improves your interpersonal skills. It also gives you a look rather into a view into lifestyle and it also improves your customer relations. 277 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:16,320 And that really stands in good stead not only in the hotel industry everywhere. We have a batch of 85 students in the final year. 278 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:25,320 Only 25 of them are willing to go for interviews of hotels because they have done their training for 6 months. They really know what hotels are. 279 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:32,320 They are being taken by other organisations, service organisations at much higher salaries. 280 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,320 This is what I have to tell students. When you come to a hotel management school, come with a very open mind. 281 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:46,320 Come to learn, come to change yourself because ultimately that is what is incumbent with the right attitude. 282 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:55,320 And when I say right attitude, an attitude of caring enough to do, going to doing your best and your best may not be the best of somebody's but that doesn't matter. 283 00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:02,320 It needs to be your best. Secondly, learn to communicate. There is a lot of communication that you really need to have in this. 284 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:12,320 We do train them towards this and so you will see people who can barely say one sentence in the first year being able to do presentations by the time they come to the final year. 285 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:18,320 It's amazing because some of these things, for example, handling a particularly difficult customer. 286 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:25,320 Now you find that if the person is blowing their top off, the best thing is not to intervene. 287 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:32,320 To allow them to just dissipate to the point where they don't have anything more to say. Absolutely. 288 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:39,320 We teach them all these things. My subject, how to handle complaints. 289 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:46,320 And my first thing was listening. Okay, make my contract. We'll teach you body language to use. 290 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:58,320 Okay, what we call it is active listening, empathetic listening and don't take it personally. See that's another thing that people, when you're doing a job, people are not saying things about you as a person. 291 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:08,320 They don't know you as a person. You shouldn't take things personally. They're talking to you for the designation that you have because you really kind of get it over a period of time. 292 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:20,320 And you can always call. You remember your brownie point on attendance. Yes, I know. My God, believe it. I did this to some of them. 293 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:28,320 Yes, I told them if you get 100% attendance, I will give you lunch. In fact, I did that with a group in welcome group. 294 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:35,320 One of my class, my batch of 45 students, they were not even answering the class internal test and all that. 295 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:42,320 And I'm a very tough cookie. So I said, no, I will only give you the marks for what you deserve and what you've shown in your test. 296 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:53,320 So then in the end, they said, what is this? I said, see, let me have a deal with you. If all of you get a first class and they were in money bar, I said, I will post all of you in my book and I will book for you. 297 00:39:53,320 --> 00:40:07,320 And to my great surprise, all 45 of them got 65% marks. I had them over at my house and each one of them told me what they wanted. 298 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,320 So they were eating your words for once. 299 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:30,320 There's a wonderful combination of understanding what people will respond to, understanding the skills that they need to master, giving them the space to figure things out for themselves and then being tough in all the places where it matters again. 300 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:35,320 Never about one thing. It's like a perfectly made dish. It has all the flavors. 301 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:46,320 And they all come together in a way that people can't forget. If you want to look back, what are the points which come back as defining? 302 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:52,320 The students who you never thought would do well. And I have to tell you this. I think I must start here. 303 00:40:52,320 --> 00:41:00,320 There was one student who had joined. He had no clue about English. I didn't think he would be able to do the program. 304 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:10,320 So I actually told his father and I said, you know, why are you putting him here? You're wasting your money. Why don't you put him in another program? He was a Gujarati student. 305 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:21,320 You know what the father told me? He said, ma'am, I have the money. I can put my son in business. I want him to come here so that he is used to a little bit of English. 306 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:32,320 Not going to be able to study. Don't worry about that. But I'm not going to hold him responsible. But if he is within this environment and he learns a little bit of English and he learns to interact with people, that's good enough for me. 307 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:41,320 And he was there for a year. I mean, the student really couldn't manage for more than a year. There have also been students where I have told the parents, please take your child. 308 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:51,320 I didn't tell the management then because when you're in a management college, every student matters. But I have actually told a few parents, please take your child back because he'll do much better in some other program. 309 00:41:51,320 --> 00:42:01,320 And I must say, those students have really done much better than those other folks. At the same time, I must say, there were one or two students who said, we can't go through this at all. 310 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:14,320 I remember there was one student comes to me in a month and he said, ma'am, I'm doing everything. I am studying. I'm doing everything. Unlike the others, I cannot. Nothing is showing. 311 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:24,320 So I told him and I said, now, please don't quote me. He's old enough now and I can say this. I said, don't quote me. But please go outside and talk to some girls. Talk to them as human beings. 312 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:38,320 And the day before the examination, please go to sleep. If you've done all your studying, eight hours of sleep, believe me, makes a lot of sense. And believe me, he came back and said what you said was right ma'am. I said don't quote me. 313 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:49,320 I remember there was one really brilliant student, someone slacking, already not giving his reports and his book, you know, journals on time. And the time had gone off and he was very tough and he said he will not do the math. 314 00:42:49,320 --> 00:43:00,320 But I caught hold of the student one day and I said, see, please do this because I know you're very capable. Okay. And I don't want you to lose. I don't know what's going on with you in your mind, but please do this and I will give you the marks. 315 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:13,320 The student went on to the first rank for our college and I'm so grateful for that. See, sometimes, you know, what you have to do is not just the students who are not doing very well that need your guidance. Sometimes students who are very good also need your guidance. 316 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:24,320 Mentoring is really, really very, very useful because, you know, it doesn't come with a baggage. You're not putting someone, you're not getting someone in the office because if somebody comes into your office and says what did I do wrong? 317 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:31,320 It's just that by the way, you know, you could, then when students come back to me and say ma'am, you know, we are doing, actually they're doing so well. 318 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:46,320 There is this one boy, Joman, who was in MasterChef of UK and then he writes back ma'am, I'm in MasterChef of UK and sends me all this and thanks to you. I said, oh my God, I feel so humbled. 319 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:51,320 Because you did it all because of you. You had the interest, but thank you for making me. 320 00:43:51,320 --> 00:44:06,320 I think it's always a two way street and students learn from you because you learn from them and this bond is something that is very unique. I don't think it can be reduced to a single statement of this is what I did so that this happened. 321 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:15,320 In a lot of these cases, you may have said something in an offhand way, but because it was the perfect thing to say or it made an impact at that point in time. 322 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:30,320 Absolutely. This to be changed and you were lucky to have mentors. What started this whole thing off was your never say die attitude of being pushed into the hardest of situations and then say, not that I can't do it, but let me do the best that I can. 323 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:42,320 And let's see what happens from there. It's interesting. How do you clean that concrete? Oh my God. I'll tell you, I looked at it. I took a scrubber. You know, I kept on scrubbing it counting one, two, three, four. 324 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:58,320 I said, this is going to show what I am. I think it's been a truly remarkable journey and it's been as insightful as I thought it would be. Thank you for sparing the time. 325 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:09,320 And it's wonderful to have heard from you, Rani. And thank you again for coming on board my first job and giving us a glimpse of your career journey and how fascinating it's been. 326 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:15,320 Thank you. Thank you for having me and I wish everyone the very best. Just remember there's only one life to live. 327 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:35,320 That was Matarani Mathias. Her career journey was another thing that a whole lot of students have been a part of and they've had the opportunity to really learn from her and apply those learnings in their careers. Another week, another episode. We look to meet you. Thank you. 328 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:56,320 On the first job, the podcast is a production from Ideascape Communications. Guest relations, promotions and creative is managed by Deepa Ravi with occasional support by Venu Gopal Nair. Archiving and technical help is provided by LPS Jayachandran. 329 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,320 Thank you.