1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,940 Deepika Sharma wandered into architecture by chance. 2 00:00:15,940 --> 00:00:21,120 Her father, a doctor, saw that she loved sketching and decided that architecture would be the 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:26,520 right career for her, not mathematics, which is what she thought she would graduate in. 4 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:34,720 With her husband Yogi, Deepika runs D plus Y, a mid-sized architecture firm doing several 5 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,280 interesting projects, big and small. 6 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,720 She has found the career of her choice and revels in it. 7 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:47,040 This is episode number 10 of My First Job, the podcast. 8 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,800 My name is Venu Gopal Nair. 9 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:56,360 I am the host of this podcast and CEO of Ideascape Communications, an advertising agency into 10 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,380 branding, creative and design. 11 00:00:59,380 --> 00:01:03,680 So settle in, sit back and enjoy the conversation. 12 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:10,440 Deepika starts right away with telling us how she enjoys her work. 13 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,440 It's been wonderful. 14 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:17,240 It's been very fortunate to always have some more projects and we've been very fortunate. 15 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,240 It's been interesting. 16 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,240 Okay. 17 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:25,240 You never looked at it as a risk or is it that you both decided that you were qualified 18 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,320 and experienced enough to take the plunge? 19 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:29,320 Absolutely. 20 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:35,200 All the decisions, all the big decisions we've ever taken in our lives, starting from marriage 21 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,200 to having kids, we never gave too much thought. 22 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,200 I don't think that's how the world works. 23 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:46,200 We've always been like this, you know, just went like it and just did it. 24 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,200 You just have to believe in yourself. 25 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,200 It's a cliche, but it really works. 26 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:51,200 Yeah. 27 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:52,200 You just have to do it. 28 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,200 And unless you actually do it, it'll never happen. 29 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:00,240 So did you start off with a few projects and then decide to form the company or was it 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:01,240 the other way around? 31 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,240 Actually, Yogi was always a partner with another friend. 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:11,480 They were already operating like two different offices in the same form and he already had 33 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,480 some partners, right? 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,480 He already had clients. 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,960 When I quit my job, I had no intention of starting off with Yogi. 36 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:26,240 I thought I'd just do some practice independently or maybe work from home or take on one project 37 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,240 at a time. 38 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,240 I was just fed up of working in an office and I wanted to do something from now on. 39 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,240 And I told Yogi about this. 40 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,240 He was like, what's the point of running two offices from the same house? 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,240 Let's just get together and do this together. 42 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,240 So he left his partnership and he started off together. 43 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,240 He already had a few clients. 44 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,240 He just grew from there. 45 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,280 So now let's go back to, you know, into rewind mode. 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,800 And I think that you had decided to pursue a BSc in maths when your father stepped in 47 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,480 and then said, why don't you do something more professional as he saw it? 48 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,040 And because he thought you sketched well, he thought that architecture was a good fit. 49 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:12,200 My entire family from a more side is they have some 300 doctors, the biggest doctors 50 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:13,200 family in India. 51 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:14,200 They've been article about them. 52 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,480 And my dad's side also they're quite a few doctors, my parents were doctors. 53 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,200 All my childhood, my entire childhood, I thought I wanted to be a doctor. 54 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,200 That's all I knew. 55 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,840 I've never seen other people doing anything else. 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:26,840 Everyone I knew was a doctor. 57 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:27,840 All our neighbours were doctors. 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:28,840 Everybody was a doctor, all aunts, uncles, everyone was a doctor. 59 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,840 I thought I'll do it. 60 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:30,840 You do reach higher classes and you realise it's a lot of hard work. 61 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:31,840 I said, no, I'm not doing this. 62 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:32,840 I can't memorize names and I can't memorize stuff like this. 63 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:33,840 I'm really bad at mugging. 64 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:34,840 I can't do this. 65 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:35,840 But I'm doing it. 66 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:36,840 I'm doing it. 67 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:37,840 I'm doing it. 68 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:38,840 I'm doing it. 69 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:39,840 I'm doing it. 70 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:40,840 I'm doing it. 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:41,840 I'm doing it. 72 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,280 I'm really bad at mugging, I can't do this. 73 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,640 But I did take bio in 11th and 12th. 74 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,640 I started liking maths a lot. 75 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,640 I started doing well in maths. 76 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,640 I thought I'll first do maths. 77 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:55,640 Dad was like, really I'll tell you about the whole thing. 78 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,640 He thought I had to do something very professional and I had to get into a professional course. 79 00:03:58,640 --> 00:03:59,640 CA, lawyer, doctor, engineer, architects. 80 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:00,640 I used to sketch a lot. 81 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:01,640 Okay, she likes sketching. 82 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:02,640 Maybe she can do something creative. 83 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:12,640 I saw this ad in the paper and it's like, what do you do as an architect? 84 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:13,640 That sounds interesting. 85 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,640 I went and wrote an aptitude test, got selected and always wanted to be an architect. 86 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:19,640 It was just an accident. 87 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:20,640 It was happening. 88 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:21,640 Thankfully, I liked it. 89 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:22,640 I enjoy it. 90 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:23,640 What are the things you sketched? 91 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:24,640 I was not a great artist or anything. 92 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:25,640 It's not like this. 93 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:26,640 I was really bad at it. 94 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:27,640 I was really bad at it. 95 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:28,640 I was really bad at it. 96 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:29,640 I was really bad at it. 97 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,640 I was really bad at it. 98 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:33,640 I was really bad at it. 99 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,640 I was really bad at it. 100 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:35,640 I was really bad at it. 101 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:36,640 I was really bad at it. 102 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:37,640 It's not like I was really talented. 103 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:38,640 I just like to sketch. 104 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:39,640 I never took any classes. 105 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:40,640 I was not doing anything great, but I was always sketching. 106 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,940 My dad was like, she likes sketching. 107 00:04:42,940 --> 00:04:45,000 You joined the money. 108 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,920 So what is it like in those early years? 109 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,480 We were a small department in engineering college. 110 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,260 Only now they have a separate department. 111 00:04:54,260 --> 00:04:55,820 Every batch was about 20 kids. 112 00:04:55,820 --> 00:04:57,620 We had only 100 kids totally. 113 00:04:57,620 --> 00:04:58,620 Everyone knew everyone. 114 00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:04,620 everyone. It was great fun, really a lot of fun. It's a very interesting course, really good fun. 115 00:05:04,620 --> 00:05:08,700 And you have a lot of friends going back to those days as well, right? 116 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:14,940 Everyone's in touch with all our classmates to get together often and we're still in touch. 117 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:19,660 The best friends are from those days. So do you remember any of the things 118 00:05:19,660 --> 00:05:26,060 that you particularly liked about the course? See, the initial semesters, it's just the basic 119 00:05:26,060 --> 00:05:32,620 design, right? So you do a lot of fun stuff like we used to throw, you know, you get this punching 120 00:05:32,620 --> 00:05:38,460 machine and you get little dots of paper, throw them on a paper and do compositions and make things 121 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:43,500 with matchsticks and it was really creative and it was so much fun. It didn't feel like you were 122 00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:49,820 studying. It was just being from school. You know how schools are, you could really slog in the last 123 00:05:49,820 --> 00:05:56,700 four years and after that this was like a holiday. It's such a break. I don't know how it is now but 124 00:05:56,700 --> 00:06:02,220 for us, especially the first semester was like a lot of fun. It was really good and slowly you get 125 00:06:02,860 --> 00:06:08,460 start doing small projects and that creativity, you know, that comes in and it's really fun. 126 00:06:08,460 --> 00:06:13,500 It's, I just loved it. That's what I said. I was fortunate that, you know, I just got into it and 127 00:06:13,500 --> 00:06:19,740 I really liked it. Like my dad had thrown me into banking or investment. That would be miserable. 128 00:06:21,020 --> 00:06:27,180 I'm so fortunate that I joined the course and the profession which I like. So you're saying the first 129 00:06:27,180 --> 00:06:32,220 semester they didn't get into any of the principles or architecture. They essentially explored your 130 00:06:32,220 --> 00:06:39,820 creativity. Theory of architecture, some maths, some English, very simple stuff. Okay, okay. 131 00:06:39,820 --> 00:06:47,260 And the strategy for materials and construction that comes in a little later. But first semester was just very basic stuff. 132 00:06:48,700 --> 00:06:55,260 I think it's a trick to get you interested. Yeah, it sort of prepared me. Then it was like I like 133 00:06:55,260 --> 00:07:00,220 doing this so I'm willing to put up with all the other stuff that goes along with it. Yeah, we have 134 00:07:00,220 --> 00:07:06,060 friends from engineering who joined civil or mech or whatever and they saw their friends doing this 135 00:07:06,060 --> 00:07:11,580 stuff and they went and met the HOD and said we want to be architects. And they actually wrote that. 136 00:07:12,220 --> 00:07:19,260 They came and joined our class. They did architecture. Okay. And then when do you actually get down to 137 00:07:19,260 --> 00:07:24,940 doing projects? One of the biggest differences was that we never had computers to work on. 138 00:07:24,940 --> 00:07:31,820 Everything was hand drawn, hand drafted. I feel that the sense of scale and proportion that gives you 139 00:07:31,820 --> 00:07:36,300 it's missing when you do stuff on the computer because you know a line is a line and it could 140 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:42,060 be one meter, it could be 100 meters, right on a screen. So that sense of proportion and scale that 141 00:07:42,060 --> 00:07:46,860 comes in when you do everything by hand because you have to convert on a scale and then you have 142 00:07:46,860 --> 00:07:53,260 to scale it and draw every small line. That's missing now. It's so easy to do stuff on the computer. 143 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:59,580 Okay. It takes a little bit of time when they come for internship to get used to that scale in your head. 144 00:07:59,580 --> 00:08:05,500 What does this mean? How much does it really feel like? How much is that space, that sense of 3D 145 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:11,020 that comes in? It takes them a little bit of time to realize that. You know the thing between 146 00:08:11,020 --> 00:08:16,940 designing on a sheet of paper in 2D and then doing it in 3D, understanding space is a very 147 00:08:16,940 --> 00:08:22,620 different dimension because you can create something perspective and all those things, but to 148 00:08:22,620 --> 00:08:28,620 create something on a sheet of paper that will ultimately be built in the real world requires 149 00:08:28,620 --> 00:08:34,940 an understanding of space and structure which we may not be able to begin with. There are two 150 00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:41,660 types of people, right? There are some who are born with that, they're talented enough or they're 151 00:08:41,660 --> 00:08:47,660 born with that sense of imagination and space. They can actually imagine the space without actually 152 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:53,420 doing a course in architecture for example and they come in and they just click on like yogis 153 00:08:53,420 --> 00:09:01,020 like that. He could immediately get to it. For me, it took time. I didn't come from that background at all 154 00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:06,540 and maybe I'm not as imaginative. I don't know but it took a little time for me to actually start 155 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:12,780 imagining the space completely. Maybe a semester, three semesters that's when I actually start 156 00:09:12,780 --> 00:09:18,460 understanding buildings and space. It just takes practice. It grows when you actually start building 157 00:09:18,460 --> 00:09:24,380 those lines which you've drawn on paper. After you graduate and you join somewhere or even during 158 00:09:24,380 --> 00:09:29,260 internship, make some drawings and then you go to site and then you actually see those things come 159 00:09:29,260 --> 00:09:35,820 up and it's so satisfying. That's actually when you really, really develop your sense of space and 160 00:09:35,820 --> 00:09:40,300 that's when you can really imagine. Now when we draw something, we're immediately able to imagine 161 00:09:40,300 --> 00:09:45,980 in our heads itself how the space will look. We draw a plan and we can walk through the building. 162 00:09:45,980 --> 00:09:51,500 I feel the course basically prepares you for these kind of things so that your thoughts get 163 00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:58,300 aligned to that line of thought. I'm not making sense but start thinking about space, start thinking 164 00:09:58,300 --> 00:10:04,220 3D. More than that, I don't think the course is good for anything. It's just five years of foundation. 165 00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:11,100 You're not fit to start working or start building anything when you graduate. You're not fit to be an 166 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:16,620 architect. It's still too late. It will take you a few more years to actually start building it. 167 00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:22,380 But that course is important because otherwise you just fresh from school and you have no idea at all. 168 00:10:22,380 --> 00:10:28,540 That just prepares you to start thinking like an architect. It prepares you to start understanding 169 00:10:28,540 --> 00:10:35,260 those drawings and spaces and stuff. When it comes to the human anatomy, things like the eyes and 170 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:40,620 ears and nose and feet and all that become important. From an architectural perspective, 171 00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:45,420 are there things that you need to look at? I mean there would be. I don't know which is why I'm asking. 172 00:10:45,420 --> 00:10:55,260 Absolutely. Right from height of a table or a chair to pitch encounters to where the wash basin sits. 173 00:10:55,980 --> 00:11:02,780 Everything, even the scale of the space is basically related to human scale. Everything is related to 174 00:11:02,780 --> 00:11:10,060 human scale. We even taught in college who stuff like that. Periodic marketing. Everything is related to human scale. 175 00:11:10,060 --> 00:11:16,860 Finally, it's humans who are going to use those spaces. How it relates to you. You can't do a house where your room is three 176 00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:22,940 floors high. You can't have a 10 by 10 room which is a city P type. You can't live in that room. 177 00:11:22,940 --> 00:11:29,500 There's this sense of scale. Everything is related to human scale. So at times, I'm sure you come 178 00:11:29,500 --> 00:11:35,340 across people who may not have that sense of scale but believe in grandeur. So does it ever come to that? 179 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:44,700 It gets all kinds of clients. Grandeur doesn't get you to do things out of scale. 180 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:54,700 Basically, if somebody wants a really huge space and that sense of grandeur, then you need to have those kind of dimensions and space in terms of food also. 181 00:11:54,700 --> 00:12:01,180 So your width and your length has to be so big to get that kind of height and then to create that kind of big space. 182 00:12:01,180 --> 00:12:06,140 You can do it in a tiny little space and just increase the height and so be it. Done. 183 00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:12,860 Clients do come with all kinds of ideas in their head. Some are good, some are not so good and then we're going to give it. That's our job. 184 00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:22,220 So you finish your course at Manipal and then what happens? Then I go back to Delhi. 185 00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:29,100 So I have done internship in one small tiny bomb. There was one draftsman there who became a good friend. 186 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:35,660 He was working in another company when I graduated. He said, why don't you come and see what these guys are doing and see if you like it. 187 00:12:35,660 --> 00:12:44,380 I went there and I saw the kind of work they were doing at the principal. I said, sure, join and join. 188 00:12:44,380 --> 00:12:47,980 I started working there and it was good. It was very, very good. 189 00:12:47,980 --> 00:12:52,940 You remember some of the early assignments and what you dug into? 190 00:12:52,940 --> 00:13:01,580 It was doing really big projects. I was working on a big complex which had commercial space, 191 00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:07,180 it had a shopping center, the lower levels, double basement parking. 192 00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:14,380 It was a huge complex and it had row houses but it didn't even start. 193 00:13:14,380 --> 00:13:19,420 So I never saw it actually happen. By the time I left the job, it hadn't even started. 194 00:13:19,420 --> 00:13:25,180 So I never went to site for that job. That one year I never visited any site. I was just in the office. 195 00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:28,540 Good. That's a lot. 196 00:13:28,540 --> 00:13:37,820 And then what is the next thing? So you've got a fairly good grounding of what it means to at least imagine large projects and what was involved in getting very successful. 197 00:13:37,820 --> 00:13:42,860 There are so many parameters which go into planning. It's not just you can't just do whatever you like. 198 00:13:42,860 --> 00:13:48,620 There's the client's pre-eve, there's the site, there's the dialogue. So many things are happening. You learn all that. 199 00:13:48,620 --> 00:13:53,580 And then what is the part of a project that you are excited about doing? 200 00:13:53,580 --> 00:13:58,220 There are parts of a project where some part of it is a job, it has to be done. 201 00:13:58,220 --> 00:14:02,380 There are others which you say, wow, I could do this the whole day. 202 00:14:02,380 --> 00:14:08,140 Yes. So the best part for any architect is the initial designing. 203 00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:12,940 Any architect, that's their favorite part. Obviously, anybody can guess that. 204 00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:19,580 So nothing like designing new building or especially buildings. 205 00:14:19,580 --> 00:14:24,780 That's the best part. It gets you so excited and so exciting. Sometimes we don't want to leave office to do work. 206 00:14:24,780 --> 00:14:27,580 Oh, it's late. Let's go. 207 00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:34,220 And after that, even developing it, like once it's finalized, you start working on the details for it. 208 00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:39,100 You develop it, you fine tune it. I love that part. I really love it. 209 00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:43,100 So interesting work on the details. 210 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:48,700 Especially, like you said, there are bylaws and there are the space that you actually have. 211 00:14:48,700 --> 00:14:54,220 So when you go to a space, when you're briefed on a particular building which has to come up, 212 00:14:54,220 --> 00:15:01,180 you take a look at the space and based on the utility, do some designs begin to suggest themselves 213 00:15:01,180 --> 00:15:06,540 or you let it marinate for a couple of days and then say, okay, let me do some rough concepts 214 00:15:06,540 --> 00:15:09,420 before I begin to dig my teeth into it. 215 00:15:09,420 --> 00:15:17,180 It works both ways. Some projects, when you look at the site itself and you instantly know what you want to do, 216 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:21,420 what will work, the site itself will inspire you. 217 00:15:21,420 --> 00:15:24,380 And sometimes it's a very mechanical thing. 218 00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:28,700 Like, you know, it's a small plot, you believe this much, guy wants to call a vastu, 219 00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:34,700 kitchen has to come here and you have very little space to play around with and do something interesting. 220 00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:39,580 Sometimes when you look at the site and you say, wow, this is what I'm going to do. 221 00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:40,620 What's both ways? 222 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:47,820 What about these industrial architecture where you have to design manufacturing companies or factories, 223 00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:49,980 at least the shell? 224 00:15:49,980 --> 00:15:51,740 That's a different feel altogether. 225 00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:55,100 Yeah, absolutely. That's all you're getting. 226 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:58,700 Okay, so you think about how that whole thing should be. 227 00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:00,460 Very, very good at it. 228 00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:05,020 So what is your strength to develop more expertise in over time? 229 00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:07,660 I think I'm very thorough. 230 00:16:07,660 --> 00:16:08,220 Okay. 231 00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:13,580 I really like everything detailed and perfect at drawing space itself. 232 00:16:13,580 --> 00:16:18,060 So from our office, no drawing leaves the office without me checking in. 233 00:16:18,060 --> 00:16:18,380 Okay. 234 00:16:19,180 --> 00:16:25,180 See, you might just draw a line, but finally it becomes a building and some weird wall will come up 235 00:16:25,180 --> 00:16:28,380 and people decide and say, what is this? And they show us the drawing. 236 00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:29,500 I feel very embarrassed. 237 00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:30,300 Okay. 238 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:31,820 Don't let it happen at all. 239 00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:34,620 I think my strength is that I'm able to do this. 240 00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:37,580 A lot of architects hate doing this job. 241 00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:40,700 We know every corner of our project. 242 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:42,140 We know every project we're doing. 243 00:16:42,140 --> 00:16:44,220 We know every corner of that building. 244 00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:47,980 That's the reason we don't want to make an effort to become big. 245 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:50,380 We don't join any clubs. 246 00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:52,460 We don't try to increase our network. 247 00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:55,900 We're happy we can do this because we're able to manage these projects. 248 00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:59,740 Some of them are quite big, but we know every corner of every project. 249 00:16:59,740 --> 00:17:00,620 I think that is us. 250 00:17:00,620 --> 00:17:01,340 Okay. 251 00:17:01,340 --> 00:17:07,420 I can certainly vouch for that detail orientation, Tipika, because I remember when you came to our 252 00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:12,620 place and you took a look at the half-finished house and you asked us to move an entire door 253 00:17:12,620 --> 00:17:15,820 by about six inches or one foot in the kitchen. 254 00:17:15,820 --> 00:17:23,260 And your point was that if the door was too close to the wall, then all the fridge and everything 255 00:17:23,260 --> 00:17:28,380 else would be protruding into that space, which we would never have thought of. 256 00:17:28,380 --> 00:17:35,580 I mean, I think, and for us, it was an education that something as simple as moving a door 257 00:17:35,580 --> 00:17:40,380 by a few inches or by a foot can make such a big difference too. 258 00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:44,380 So everything, like you said, the placement of the switches, what works where. 259 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:50,620 So these are things that most people just think, okay, it's a, you know, 260 00:17:50,620 --> 00:17:53,260 elevation inside this thing and it's done. 261 00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:58,940 It's not like you said, it's a line, but that line will be translated into something major. 262 00:17:58,940 --> 00:18:05,500 The layout, the toilet details, very, very important to detail it out. 263 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:09,740 Where each switch is, what it controls, what comes on your bedside. 264 00:18:09,740 --> 00:18:11,020 Like you said, it's so important. 265 00:18:11,660 --> 00:18:13,980 We know exactly what's happening in that project. 266 00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:18,540 So this is getting refined as you work, which is the next place you joined? 267 00:18:18,540 --> 00:18:23,740 Actually, I did a computer course while I was doing that first job. 268 00:18:23,740 --> 00:18:26,220 Computers were still relatively new. 269 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:28,300 AutoCAD was a new thing. 270 00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:32,620 I was very excited because Yogi had done a course and I mean, after he finished, 271 00:18:32,620 --> 00:18:34,540 I went and joined the architect. 272 00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:37,820 I said, I also want to learn AutoCAD. 273 00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:40,620 And then I was so keen because I didn't have a computer at home. 274 00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:42,060 It just felt so expensive. 275 00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:48,540 I said, I'm going to join an office where I can work on a really quiet skill. 276 00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:50,220 So you want to practice it. 277 00:18:50,220 --> 00:18:52,860 And my first office, it was not possible. 278 00:18:52,860 --> 00:18:55,500 I quit the job and joined another office. 279 00:18:55,500 --> 00:19:00,940 They actually wanted an architect on the only one of the two computers that they had. 280 00:19:00,940 --> 00:19:03,820 One was for admin work and one was for architecture. 281 00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:06,940 And it was a slightly bigger office, better known. 282 00:19:08,860 --> 00:19:10,620 They wanted somebody on the computer. 283 00:19:10,620 --> 00:19:12,460 I worked there. 284 00:19:12,460 --> 00:19:15,260 AutoCAD was here. 285 00:19:15,260 --> 00:19:15,900 Okay. 286 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:18,540 And was that process different? 287 00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:21,500 You found it very different from sketching by hand, obviously. 288 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:24,700 But what changed as far as you were concerned? 289 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:25,740 It still happens. 290 00:19:25,740 --> 00:19:28,140 Sketching by hand happens even today. 291 00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:31,900 Basic lines are always on paper. 292 00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:35,420 Brain thinks better when it comes from the hand. 293 00:19:36,060 --> 00:19:38,700 It just doesn't go on the screen directly. 294 00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,260 A little bit has to be sketched. 295 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:44,540 Even there, a lot of basic design was done by hand. 296 00:19:44,540 --> 00:19:46,780 And then it was put into the computer. 297 00:19:47,740 --> 00:19:52,380 What was different was the way buildings were done altogether. 298 00:19:52,380 --> 00:19:54,780 So it was from one architect to the next. 299 00:19:54,780 --> 00:20:00,300 Their way of looking at things, their whole process of design itself. 300 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:01,900 That was a good experience. 301 00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:02,540 Right. 302 00:20:02,540 --> 00:20:06,220 So having been in architecture for so long, Deepika, 303 00:20:06,220 --> 00:20:11,340 do you think that this is a profession where women get the credit they deserve? 304 00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:15,500 Any profession, it is always tougher for women. 305 00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:16,620 Any profession. 306 00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:18,620 I don't think architecture is any better. 307 00:20:18,620 --> 00:20:21,260 As long as you're in the office environment, there's no difference. 308 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:26,300 When you go out, and you go to sites, and you have to go shout at contractors 309 00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:28,460 because they're making mistakes, or they're not just... 310 00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:29,980 Some of them will just... 311 00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:33,340 If you're too soft, too nice, they'll just ignore you. 312 00:20:33,340 --> 00:20:34,540 They won't even look at you. 313 00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:39,100 You have to be tough to talk to them on a tough tone. 314 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:42,860 You have to put on this act that you're a really tough woman. 315 00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:44,140 No fooling around. 316 00:20:44,140 --> 00:20:45,100 You better listen to me. 317 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:51,420 It is tougher because sometimes guys don't like it when women are scolding them, 318 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:55,500 or asking them to do stuff, and that male ego comes in. 319 00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:56,540 They don't like it. 320 00:20:56,540 --> 00:20:58,700 It's contractors or vendors or whatever. 321 00:20:58,700 --> 00:20:59,420 It can be nice. 322 00:20:59,420 --> 00:21:01,500 Even when they know they've been wrong. 323 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,820 Even when they know they're wrong, or particularly when they're wrong. 324 00:21:03,820 --> 00:21:04,620 Nice. 325 00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:07,260 See, we all justify our mistakes to ourselves. 326 00:21:07,260 --> 00:21:07,580 Right? 327 00:21:07,580 --> 00:21:08,860 Or we speak our own language. 328 00:21:08,860 --> 00:21:11,340 So they also feel, oh no, I did this. 329 00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:12,860 This is the only way to... 330 00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:14,940 This is why they justify it to themselves. 331 00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:16,540 But it's not what's in our drawing. 332 00:21:16,540 --> 00:21:17,900 This is not what we wanted. 333 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:20,220 So as long as everything is okay, it'll be nice. 334 00:21:20,220 --> 00:21:23,260 But as soon as you have to actually point it out to them, 335 00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:26,940 or really get it done, or get them to be serious about it, 336 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:28,220 you have to toughen up. 337 00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:28,940 It's just tough. 338 00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:29,980 It's easier for guys. 339 00:21:30,540 --> 00:21:32,460 A guy who's an advocate goes to site. 340 00:21:32,460 --> 00:21:35,580 It's easier for him to get people to listen to him. 341 00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:37,740 And it is more important. 342 00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:38,300 Yeah. 343 00:21:38,300 --> 00:21:41,580 Unfortunately, I think that is quite deep-rooted, right? 344 00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:44,300 It's not something that you have, or is it? 345 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:45,180 It's changing. 346 00:21:45,180 --> 00:21:47,660 It has already changed all the years. 347 00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:49,900 It's changing. 348 00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:50,860 So it's a positive. 349 00:21:51,420 --> 00:21:55,740 So shepherding a project through all its stages, 350 00:21:55,740 --> 00:21:59,180 which would you say is among the most difficult? 351 00:21:59,180 --> 00:22:02,060 And is there something like that? 352 00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:04,780 So there is no difficult project. 353 00:22:04,780 --> 00:22:06,620 There are difficult clients, sure. 354 00:22:06,620 --> 00:22:07,340 Okay. 355 00:22:07,340 --> 00:22:08,540 Projects are not difficult. 356 00:22:08,540 --> 00:22:12,300 Projects are, in fact, more variation there is, 357 00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:14,620 the kind of work you're doing, more interesting it is. 358 00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:16,940 If you do different kinds of projects, 359 00:22:16,940 --> 00:22:18,220 it's more interesting for us. 360 00:22:18,220 --> 00:22:19,340 It's more challenging. 361 00:22:19,340 --> 00:22:20,380 We have more fun. 362 00:22:20,380 --> 00:22:21,900 Projects are not difficult. 363 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:24,860 So is it a lack of understanding of the client's part, 364 00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:27,580 or is it simply that they want their way? 365 00:22:27,580 --> 00:22:29,820 There are different kinds of clients. 366 00:22:29,820 --> 00:22:32,780 So some are like, we don't know anything. 367 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:34,220 They listen to you, whatever you say. 368 00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:37,260 They place their trust in your hands. 369 00:22:37,260 --> 00:22:38,860 They don't know anything, and they don't want to. 370 00:22:38,860 --> 00:22:40,860 And they say, yeah, we don't know anything. 371 00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:41,660 You do it. 372 00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:44,220 And there are those, the other extreme, 373 00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:45,900 think they know everything. 374 00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:49,100 And it's the ones who are somewhere in between 375 00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:50,140 for the perfect clients. 376 00:22:50,140 --> 00:22:50,700 Okay. 377 00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:54,940 Who are aware of, you know, who are educated enough, 378 00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:57,420 aware enough, exposed enough to this. 379 00:22:57,420 --> 00:22:59,580 They have some sense of what's going on, 380 00:22:59,580 --> 00:23:01,180 and they have a say in it, 381 00:23:01,180 --> 00:23:03,180 have some idea of what they really want. 382 00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:04,140 They're the best types. 383 00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:07,180 Because they'll also be really involved with the project. 384 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:08,860 They'll keep challenging you. 385 00:23:08,860 --> 00:23:10,380 And they're the best types. 386 00:23:10,380 --> 00:23:12,860 Is there a fair amount of selling involved 387 00:23:12,860 --> 00:23:14,220 on the design aspect? 388 00:23:14,220 --> 00:23:16,700 Now, when you present that design to the client, 389 00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:19,420 they obviously have a mind, in their mind, 390 00:23:19,420 --> 00:23:20,700 what the building should be like. 391 00:23:21,660 --> 00:23:22,940 Not always. 392 00:23:22,940 --> 00:23:23,260 Okay. 393 00:23:23,260 --> 00:23:23,820 Not always. 394 00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:26,380 Some of them sometimes have some idea. 395 00:23:26,380 --> 00:23:28,700 Some of them come with some preconceived notions, 396 00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:30,460 but a lot of them don't know. 397 00:23:30,460 --> 00:23:33,340 Sometimes they're not able to even give us the exact date. 398 00:23:34,060 --> 00:23:36,780 A lot of things they're not able to explain to us properly 399 00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:38,460 before we start designing. 400 00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:42,940 So then what happens is when we present the first scheme, 401 00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:45,420 that's when they realize, no, no, no, no, 402 00:23:45,420 --> 00:23:46,940 we didn't want it like this. 403 00:23:46,940 --> 00:23:48,460 We wanted it like that. 404 00:23:48,460 --> 00:23:48,780 Right. 405 00:23:48,780 --> 00:23:52,380 So it's also, first draft is always, 406 00:23:52,380 --> 00:23:54,220 we always tell them it's like, 407 00:23:54,220 --> 00:23:57,020 this is what will really make us understand 408 00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:59,180 your input and your reward on this. 409 00:23:59,180 --> 00:24:01,580 How we really understand what you want, 410 00:24:01,580 --> 00:24:03,180 not from the brief behavior. 411 00:24:03,180 --> 00:24:05,660 So sometimes it takes us a few sittings 412 00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:07,500 and a few schemes and provisions 413 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:11,740 to actually totally understand their requirement. 414 00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:14,860 But some of them are very clear from day one. 415 00:24:14,860 --> 00:24:17,340 You know, I'm surprised at the kind of overlap 416 00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:18,940 in terms of the creative fields 417 00:24:18,940 --> 00:24:22,140 when it comes to advertising and architecture. 418 00:24:22,140 --> 00:24:23,900 2D versus 3D. 419 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,220 The first presentation that you make to the client 420 00:24:26,220 --> 00:24:28,460 is when you understand what they're looking for 421 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:30,380 in terms of what that brand is. 422 00:24:30,380 --> 00:24:33,020 They might not know what it looks like or the, you know, 423 00:24:33,020 --> 00:24:34,860 but the creative and the communication. 424 00:24:34,860 --> 00:24:36,700 No, no, no, we didn't want this. 425 00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:37,500 That they know. 426 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:38,060 Yeah. 427 00:24:38,060 --> 00:24:42,700 It gives them a clarity once you present something 428 00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:45,180 that they can react and respond to 429 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:48,140 because then it becomes easier for them. 430 00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:49,660 What takes the longest? 431 00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:54,140 Would you define, would you break up a project into stages? 432 00:24:54,140 --> 00:24:55,980 And if so, what are the stages? 433 00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:58,780 See, first stage is the design stage itself, 434 00:24:58,780 --> 00:25:01,180 which can take any amount of time, right? 435 00:25:01,180 --> 00:25:04,940 Starting from us designing it, some projects, 436 00:25:04,940 --> 00:25:07,660 some buildings we're able to crack very quickly 437 00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:09,420 and some just take so long 438 00:25:09,420 --> 00:25:12,780 and we can't promise our client how long it's going to take. 439 00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:14,620 So we say, okay, give us two weeks. 440 00:25:14,620 --> 00:25:16,460 But sometimes at the end of the weeks, 441 00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:18,060 we've just not cracked it, right? 442 00:25:18,060 --> 00:25:19,580 So sometimes it might take a month 443 00:25:19,580 --> 00:25:22,540 for our first piece itself, for the first draft. 444 00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:24,540 And then it depends on the client. 445 00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:27,660 How many times do you keep revising it? 446 00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:31,500 So we've done a project where we did 27 divisions. 447 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:32,380 That was the max. 448 00:25:32,380 --> 00:25:35,500 Normally second, third, fourth, depends on the client. 449 00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:37,660 So that part takes a certain amount of time, 450 00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:39,100 which cannot be quantified. 451 00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:41,180 You cannot say, no, in three months we'll be done 452 00:25:41,180 --> 00:25:42,700 or in one month we don't know. 453 00:25:44,060 --> 00:25:48,140 And then the actual then many places, approvals, right? 454 00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:49,820 Sanctions from the local board. 455 00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:51,260 That takes a certain amount of time. 456 00:25:51,260 --> 00:25:53,180 That also depends on the building type. 457 00:25:53,180 --> 00:25:55,980 It takes nothing from three months to one year, right? 458 00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:57,980 Once that is done, you start the construction. 459 00:25:57,980 --> 00:26:01,100 So the superstructure takes the shortest one. 460 00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:02,540 That's like super fast. 461 00:26:02,540 --> 00:26:04,060 Tick tock, it's over. 462 00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:06,300 And then the clients feel, oh, now it's ready. 463 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,500 And now we can start operating from here 464 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:11,900 or we can move in or whatever the building type may be. 465 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:13,900 But it doesn't work like that. 466 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:16,540 Finishing is what really takes a lot of time. 467 00:26:16,540 --> 00:26:18,780 Do it well, do it nicely. 468 00:26:18,780 --> 00:26:20,780 Is it because there are a number of layers 469 00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:23,740 which people just don't understand the amount of complexity 470 00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:26,220 that is there in finishing a project or? 471 00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:26,940 Yeah, they don't know. 472 00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:27,660 They don't know. 473 00:26:27,660 --> 00:26:28,780 They're not going to do that. 474 00:26:28,780 --> 00:26:31,580 See, there are people who have done projects before. 475 00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:32,700 Like it's a factory. 476 00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:34,380 Those guys have done factories before. 477 00:26:34,380 --> 00:26:36,540 If it's a builder, he's done builder projects. 478 00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:40,060 If it's a school, that guy might be doing school. 479 00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:44,380 So they have some idea and they have some control over. 480 00:26:44,380 --> 00:26:48,220 They already have teams in place who can just do it very quickly. 481 00:26:48,220 --> 00:26:50,700 Finishes are sorted out and they have everything. 482 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:51,820 Everything happens fast. 483 00:26:51,820 --> 00:26:54,300 But when it comes to houses, 484 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:57,740 then most of the people build only one house in a lifetime. 485 00:26:57,740 --> 00:26:59,420 That's their first last experience. 486 00:26:59,420 --> 00:27:00,220 Right. 487 00:27:00,220 --> 00:27:01,660 And they're not there. 488 00:27:01,660 --> 00:27:02,620 They're not supposed to. 489 00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:04,860 They're not architects. 490 00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:05,580 They don't know. 491 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:07,020 But sometimes they're impatient. 492 00:27:07,020 --> 00:27:10,700 They're like, oh, it's been so long and you still don't move in 493 00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:13,340 because there's so much structure going on like three months back. 494 00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:14,700 You still know when you're completion. 495 00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:24,060 So where do you think your skill really changes with experience? 496 00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:27,820 What kind of skills one is client handling skills, of course, 497 00:27:27,820 --> 00:27:29,180 get to be much better. 498 00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:33,660 But are there other aspects of the job that you think improve time? 499 00:27:33,660 --> 00:27:36,380 Every single skill, even designing skills. 500 00:27:36,940 --> 00:27:39,820 So we look back 20 years ago, what we were doing. 501 00:27:39,820 --> 00:27:40,860 I don't think we like those. 502 00:27:40,860 --> 00:27:46,380 I think we keep improving everything, whether it's designing, 503 00:27:46,380 --> 00:27:51,420 whether it's detailing, right handling, even site solutions. 504 00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:55,420 Just keep getting better at the site and we immediately see problems. 505 00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:56,060 Right. 506 00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:58,380 We'll see any building, we see problems. 507 00:27:58,380 --> 00:28:00,940 Our eyes get trained to see problems. 508 00:28:00,940 --> 00:28:02,140 Every single thing. 509 00:28:02,140 --> 00:28:03,900 Just take me through one of those. 510 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:06,300 Let's say anything that you remember, Deepika. 511 00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:09,500 You go to a site and then you see the site. 512 00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:13,420 And then you see that there is a problem that either the contractor 513 00:28:13,420 --> 00:28:16,700 or the person has not noticed. 514 00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:23,260 What exactly has, let's say the contractor or the vendor has not noticed. 515 00:28:23,900 --> 00:28:28,700 But in your mind, how do you flag off a problem? 516 00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:29,980 What do you see? 517 00:28:29,980 --> 00:28:33,180 See, when we make the drawings and we've done the designing, 518 00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:35,500 you already know how the building is going to look. 519 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:39,420 Like I told you, every corner of our building, even before construction starts, 520 00:28:39,420 --> 00:28:41,100 you know exactly how it's going to look. 521 00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:42,940 And we have some vision in mind, right? 522 00:28:42,940 --> 00:28:46,060 And we go there and we look at it and we immediately know it's wrong. 523 00:28:46,060 --> 00:28:47,180 This is not what we did. 524 00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:48,220 This is not our design. 525 00:28:48,220 --> 00:28:49,420 This is not what we wanted. 526 00:28:49,420 --> 00:28:50,860 This is not the right drawing. 527 00:28:50,860 --> 00:28:54,300 We point it out and sometimes they've not understood the drawing. 528 00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:56,780 Sometimes they've not seen the drawing properly. 529 00:28:56,780 --> 00:29:00,940 It depends on skills of the contractor and the supervisor also. 530 00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:02,460 Drawing, reading skills. 531 00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:03,820 It's not always good. 532 00:29:03,820 --> 00:29:07,100 Sometimes it's terrible. So that's where supervision comes in. 533 00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:10,220 We have to keep on going to size and we have to keep checking. 534 00:29:10,220 --> 00:29:13,020 Because otherwise it'll never work out if we're wrong. 535 00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:17,100 So we go and we check and sometimes we go, sometimes the engineer takes us, 536 00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:19,580 sometimes the engineer will go for the structural part. 537 00:29:19,580 --> 00:29:21,580 For different aspects, different people will visit. 538 00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:22,860 But we keep going. 539 00:29:22,860 --> 00:29:26,140 Unless we do that, we'll do something wrong and we won't like it. 540 00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:28,380 It's our building. It's our baby. 541 00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:31,980 So before you started D+, why the most time you had spent was 542 00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:33,580 at another place. 543 00:29:33,580 --> 00:29:38,780 What is the career trajectory after the first couple of places that you worked in? 544 00:29:38,780 --> 00:29:42,380 When I finished my second job, the one on the computer, 545 00:29:42,380 --> 00:29:45,660 I quit there to get married while we were still in Delhi. 546 00:29:45,660 --> 00:29:48,780 And after that, I joined my father's first work in Delhi. 547 00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:52,380 And I worked there part-time till I had a baby. 548 00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:53,900 And then I took a long break. 549 00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:55,900 We moved to Chennai during that break. 550 00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:59,740 And then Yogi was with another partner. 551 00:29:59,740 --> 00:30:03,740 I used to go to their office just because I needed to get out of the house. 552 00:30:03,740 --> 00:30:06,300 We would go to school and I'd go to office. 553 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:08,620 We'd sit there and do some work, something. 554 00:30:08,620 --> 00:30:09,900 I'd say, okay, I'll do this. 555 00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:10,940 Let me do something. 556 00:30:10,940 --> 00:30:13,180 I needed to, we didn't have phones. 557 00:30:13,180 --> 00:30:14,060 We just moved in. 558 00:30:14,060 --> 00:30:15,340 Even landline was not there. 559 00:30:15,340 --> 00:30:16,540 We didn't have mobiles. 560 00:30:16,540 --> 00:30:18,060 There was nobody to talk to. 561 00:30:18,060 --> 00:30:20,060 I needed adult conversation. 562 00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:23,180 I can't wait for the baby the whole day. 563 00:30:23,180 --> 00:30:27,340 So I used to just go, spend four hours there, three hours there. 564 00:30:27,340 --> 00:30:28,860 Just part-time. 565 00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:30,380 Long big job. 566 00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:34,220 And after some time, then I had one more period. 567 00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:35,660 I said, no, enough is enough. 568 00:30:35,660 --> 00:30:38,140 I stick up sitting at home, then we start working. 569 00:30:38,140 --> 00:30:42,140 I joined when someone was like one and a half, 15 months. 570 00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:43,340 I'm in a crush. 571 00:30:43,340 --> 00:30:44,620 A few hours a day. 572 00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:45,900 I started working. 573 00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:46,940 I wanted two years. 574 00:30:46,940 --> 00:30:47,820 It was two years. 575 00:30:47,820 --> 00:30:51,340 And I joined a job called Edifrice in Chennai. 576 00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:51,980 Fantastic. 577 00:30:51,980 --> 00:30:52,940 Yeah, I could say. 578 00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:53,500 I learned. 579 00:30:53,500 --> 00:30:55,420 I've been lucky all my life. 580 00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:58,060 I walked into that office to ask for a job. 581 00:30:58,060 --> 00:31:00,220 One of our seniors had put me on to that offer. 582 00:31:00,220 --> 00:31:01,980 And we had moved our dad. 583 00:31:01,980 --> 00:31:04,780 And I didn't want to go very far because I had two small kids. 584 00:31:04,780 --> 00:31:07,660 I wanted to be there in case of any emergency, any problem. 585 00:31:07,660 --> 00:31:09,020 I wanted to be close. 586 00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:10,940 And the senior passed from college. 587 00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:12,620 He said, I know this architect. 588 00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:13,660 He's really good. 589 00:31:13,660 --> 00:31:14,940 Why don't we go and meet him? 590 00:31:14,940 --> 00:31:18,140 He called him up and said, I'm sending you. 591 00:31:18,140 --> 00:31:19,820 I walked into that office. 592 00:31:19,820 --> 00:31:22,140 And Ramon, who's the principal architect, 593 00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:26,060 tells me just two days back, my architect quit. 594 00:31:26,060 --> 00:31:28,140 He had only one architect in those days. 595 00:31:28,140 --> 00:31:28,860 Perfect timing. 596 00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:30,140 And the rest were all gone. 597 00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:31,260 The rest were all gone. 598 00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:32,780 So when can you join? 599 00:31:32,780 --> 00:31:33,820 That was my interview. 600 00:31:37,660 --> 00:31:38,860 Just pure luck. 601 00:31:38,860 --> 00:31:40,300 It's nothing worse. 602 00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:44,220 Everywhere I went, I just got the job, just like that. 603 00:31:44,220 --> 00:31:46,140 It's luck, yes, Deepika. 604 00:31:46,140 --> 00:31:49,740 But I think there is also a background of a network 605 00:31:49,740 --> 00:31:51,740 of people who trust each other. 606 00:31:51,740 --> 00:31:55,820 And OK, the fact that you have access to that network 607 00:31:55,820 --> 00:31:57,420 is part of the luck. 608 00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:58,220 Yeah. 609 00:31:58,220 --> 00:32:01,260 It also means that you're able to get through something 610 00:32:01,260 --> 00:32:04,220 which, if they don't have any idea of your background 611 00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:07,100 at all, then obviously there's a lot more involved 612 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:10,140 in trying to figure out, OK, does this person fit the bill? 613 00:32:10,140 --> 00:32:11,180 All of those things. 614 00:32:11,180 --> 00:32:16,540 Which brings me to what you probably wrestle with. 615 00:32:16,540 --> 00:32:20,460 How do you get people from the current generation? 616 00:32:20,460 --> 00:32:22,860 And what is the difference that you notice today? 617 00:32:22,860 --> 00:32:28,140 It's so difficult to get people. 618 00:32:28,140 --> 00:32:32,460 Especially all the kids coming out, 619 00:32:32,460 --> 00:32:34,140 there are so many architecture companies. 620 00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:36,700 First of all, all of them don't continue in architecture. 621 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:40,860 A lot of the kids who join IT companies get trained for six 622 00:32:40,860 --> 00:32:43,100 months, and they become IT professionals. 623 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:47,660 Or they join some outsourcing companies like L&T and stuff. 624 00:32:47,660 --> 00:32:51,020 Because the initial salary is double of what any architecture 625 00:32:51,020 --> 00:32:53,020 company is. 626 00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:55,020 They're just going there and doing a drafting job. 627 00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:57,020 They're not really architects. 628 00:32:57,020 --> 00:32:59,900 Some people who come from poorer backgrounds 629 00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:02,060 are looking at that salary and not 630 00:33:02,060 --> 00:33:04,300 looking at long-term career path. 631 00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:06,860 School is not so big anymore, although there 632 00:33:06,860 --> 00:33:08,380 are so many architecture colleges 633 00:33:08,380 --> 00:33:09,980 and so many schools are graduating. 634 00:33:09,980 --> 00:33:12,140 Then of course, a lot of them go for higher studies. 635 00:33:12,140 --> 00:33:15,500 A lot of them want to work in Bombay or Delhi or Bangalore. 636 00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:16,620 Bangalore is a big name. 637 00:33:16,620 --> 00:33:19,340 A lot of them want to work for big architects, big names, 638 00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:20,940 well-known architects. 639 00:33:20,940 --> 00:33:23,820 And there, Chennai is very small. 640 00:33:23,820 --> 00:33:26,780 And even there, they want to work for the bigger architects. 641 00:33:26,780 --> 00:33:30,460 So medium-sized firms like us or small firms like us, 642 00:33:30,460 --> 00:33:32,060 it's very difficult. 643 00:33:32,060 --> 00:33:34,300 Once we get, sometimes we don't want to pay. 644 00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:35,180 It's very difficult. 645 00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:37,820 So now we've just been doing it with recommendations 646 00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:39,100 of our existing staff. 647 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:42,780 From then, they find a senior or junior or somebody 648 00:33:42,780 --> 00:33:45,580 knows somebody, and that's the only way. 649 00:33:45,580 --> 00:33:46,220 Yeah. 650 00:33:46,220 --> 00:33:48,060 That cuts through the entire process 651 00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:50,540 rather than trying to figure out if the person is good enough 652 00:33:50,540 --> 00:33:52,860 and what is the difference that you've noticed. 653 00:33:52,860 --> 00:33:56,860 They get into IT companies and is it because salary 654 00:33:56,860 --> 00:34:00,060 or is it because they've never really understood 655 00:34:00,060 --> 00:34:03,260 what this whole business is about during the course? 656 00:34:03,260 --> 00:34:05,100 It's very hard to answer that question. 657 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:08,620 They haven't built a sort of liking for the subject 658 00:34:08,620 --> 00:34:10,380 that they've spent five years doing. 659 00:34:10,380 --> 00:34:12,940 All starts from the admission itself. 660 00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:16,940 There are a lot of kids who don't get into engineering 661 00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:21,500 in a good college on merit, on Roman quota. 662 00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:25,500 And then they write the exam, architecture, and they get it. 663 00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:26,940 I'm not saying all kids are like that. 664 00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:29,900 Most of them are good and they want to do architecture. 665 00:34:29,900 --> 00:34:33,100 So a lack of direction and a lack of clarity, 666 00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:34,700 where would you put your finger? 667 00:34:34,700 --> 00:34:37,100 I think it's not neither. 668 00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:39,660 I think it's just immediate gains. 669 00:34:39,660 --> 00:34:41,260 They're not thinking long-term. 670 00:34:41,260 --> 00:34:42,860 They have long-term plans. 671 00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:45,420 They're just looking at my next salary. 672 00:34:45,420 --> 00:34:47,100 You know, when I started working, 673 00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:50,460 I didn't even ask how much they paid me. 674 00:34:50,460 --> 00:34:53,580 Maybe because we're privileged and it didn't matter. 675 00:34:56,140 --> 00:34:57,580 Never bothered about money. 676 00:34:57,580 --> 00:35:00,380 Didn't even ask my first job, second job. 677 00:35:01,820 --> 00:35:03,740 After one month, Pramod asked me, 678 00:35:03,740 --> 00:35:05,260 how much do you want per month? 679 00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:06,700 I said, look, I have two small kids. 680 00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:08,300 They come home at four o'clock. 681 00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:10,060 I can work only till four. 682 00:35:10,060 --> 00:35:12,700 He said, okay, how much do you want per month? 683 00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:13,820 I don't know. 684 00:35:13,820 --> 00:35:15,580 Why don't you decide after one month? 685 00:35:15,580 --> 00:35:16,380 500 bucks? 686 00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:19,900 I suppose we didn't need that much. 687 00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:20,400 Okay. 688 00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:24,060 Yeah, what they know today is how much money they want to earn, 689 00:35:24,060 --> 00:35:27,500 but they're not very sure about what they will bring to the table. 690 00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:29,020 Is that one of the issues? 691 00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:31,740 I think it's also peer pressure now, 692 00:35:31,740 --> 00:35:33,340 because when we were younger, 693 00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:36,060 we didn't know how much our friends were earning. 694 00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:36,780 Nobody asked. 695 00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:39,100 It was not polite to talk about money. 696 00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:40,540 Maybe you brought up like that. 697 00:35:40,540 --> 00:35:41,500 You don't discuss money. 698 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,180 You don't ask people how much they earn. 699 00:35:43,180 --> 00:35:44,060 Don't do that. 700 00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:45,180 You still don't do it. 701 00:35:45,180 --> 00:35:46,860 So it was never discussed 702 00:35:46,860 --> 00:35:49,420 and it didn't matter how much money anybody had. 703 00:35:49,420 --> 00:35:52,540 And so our salaries were never discussed among friends. 704 00:35:52,540 --> 00:35:53,260 So it didn't matter. 705 00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:56,460 Now with all the social media and all this and all, 706 00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:58,140 maybe I don't know how it works. 707 00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:01,180 I'm just guessing that maybe there is that pressure 708 00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:03,420 that your classmate is earning this much, 709 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:05,340 that one is making some money there. 710 00:36:05,340 --> 00:36:06,860 Maybe, I don't know. 711 00:36:06,860 --> 00:36:09,420 You've never believed in social media or really? 712 00:36:09,420 --> 00:36:12,780 No, Facebook. Now we have an Insta page for our company. 713 00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:14,220 Earlier we didn't even have that. 714 00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:16,460 We don't even have a website. 715 00:36:16,460 --> 00:36:17,260 It's terrible. 716 00:36:17,260 --> 00:36:18,300 It's lazy. 717 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:19,580 No Twitter, nothing. 718 00:36:19,580 --> 00:36:23,180 WhatsApp is a new tool to manage sites. 719 00:36:23,180 --> 00:36:24,620 It's a very useful tool. 720 00:36:24,620 --> 00:36:27,820 So all our contractors definitely has WhatsApp 721 00:36:27,820 --> 00:36:31,740 and we're able to monitor even our station sites. 722 00:36:31,740 --> 00:36:34,540 You can actually manage them pretty well with WhatsApp. 723 00:36:34,540 --> 00:36:38,700 But is it a pain monitoring or going through so many websites 724 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:39,660 groups? 725 00:36:39,660 --> 00:36:42,620 Every project has one or two WhatsApp groups. 726 00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:43,500 Every project. 727 00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:46,940 Whatever comments, pictures of the site, 728 00:36:46,940 --> 00:36:49,580 whatever they need, whatever chat, whatever decision, 729 00:36:49,580 --> 00:36:51,100 everything is put on the WhatsApp. 730 00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:52,300 And that works fine. 731 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:53,420 It works very well. 732 00:36:53,420 --> 00:36:56,220 Because everybody is on the same page. 733 00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:58,060 The client knows what's going on. 734 00:36:58,060 --> 00:36:59,580 Contractor knows what's going on. 735 00:36:59,580 --> 00:37:00,540 We know what's going on. 736 00:37:00,540 --> 00:37:02,860 And in our office itself, the architect, the engineer, 737 00:37:02,860 --> 00:37:04,780 everybody knows what's going on in the project. 738 00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:05,580 It's a good thing. 739 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:06,620 It works very well. 740 00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:07,180 Yeah. 741 00:37:07,180 --> 00:37:09,820 And it's like for that particular project, 742 00:37:09,820 --> 00:37:13,100 everyone involved is literally being brought up to date 743 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:15,660 based on whatever messages are being sent. 744 00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:19,100 But this has happened over the last, what, three, four years? 745 00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:21,420 Or what was it like before that? 746 00:37:21,420 --> 00:37:22,700 Was it more email and? 747 00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:25,500 Maybe last seven, eight years. 748 00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:26,300 Eight years? 749 00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:26,780 Sure. 750 00:37:26,780 --> 00:37:28,300 Before that, there was nothing happening. 751 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:30,780 It's like, WhatsApp, WhatsApp. 752 00:37:30,780 --> 00:37:33,580 And then that's when it really started. 753 00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:34,700 It became popular. 754 00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:36,700 So it's not project management. 755 00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:39,180 It's project management software and tracking. 756 00:37:39,180 --> 00:37:40,620 It's play for the message. 757 00:37:40,620 --> 00:37:41,120 No. 758 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:41,620 No. 759 00:37:41,620 --> 00:37:44,860 No. 760 00:37:44,860 --> 00:37:47,420 You get the information that you want. 761 00:37:47,420 --> 00:37:50,580 And when you tell a vendor or a contractor saying, 762 00:37:50,580 --> 00:37:52,460 this has not been done, he doesn't 763 00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:54,540 want the client to see it. 764 00:37:54,540 --> 00:37:55,660 The client will see it. 765 00:37:55,660 --> 00:37:57,660 Contractor will tell the client one thing. 766 00:37:57,660 --> 00:37:59,580 And then he'll tell us something else. 767 00:37:59,580 --> 00:38:01,500 This way, everybody knows what's happening. 768 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,100 You can't lie your way through. 769 00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:03,980 Yeah. 770 00:38:03,980 --> 00:38:05,220 Here, there's no fig leaf. 771 00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:07,260 Yeah, there's nothing that you can say. 772 00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:09,300 And it's all out there in the open. 773 00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:10,580 Oh, but this is interesting. 774 00:38:10,580 --> 00:38:14,380 I didn't know that this particular thing is a way of, 775 00:38:14,380 --> 00:38:16,980 yeah, like you said, it is used for everything. 776 00:38:16,980 --> 00:38:20,020 So this normally comes after the project starts. 777 00:38:20,020 --> 00:38:23,700 I assume that it's once the vendors on. 778 00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:25,540 Vendors are not the vendors. 779 00:38:25,540 --> 00:38:27,140 Not vendors, the contractor. 780 00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:28,740 Contractors are there. 781 00:38:28,740 --> 00:38:30,220 You don't put vendors into this. 782 00:38:30,220 --> 00:38:32,900 They'll get a lot of information if they don't need. 783 00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:36,380 Why does a window manufacturer need 784 00:38:36,380 --> 00:38:39,660 to know what is going on inside the foundation stage? 785 00:38:39,660 --> 00:38:42,180 What about the talented kids? 786 00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:44,980 What have you seen about the kids who differentiate 787 00:38:44,980 --> 00:38:48,900 and who look at architecture as a long-term career? 788 00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:52,860 How do you see them doing things differently? 789 00:38:52,860 --> 00:38:54,820 There are different kinds of kids, right? 790 00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:55,340 Right. 791 00:38:55,340 --> 00:38:59,860 Everything is not naturally talented or a natural art. 792 00:38:59,860 --> 00:39:01,500 And they become very fast. 793 00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:02,620 They're really interested. 794 00:39:02,620 --> 00:39:06,660 I had one kid at the office and he came for his internship. 795 00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:09,740 Every time I picked up my bag to go to a site, 796 00:39:09,740 --> 00:39:10,820 he'd be there next to me. 797 00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:11,700 Can I also come? 798 00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:13,460 Can I also come? 799 00:39:13,460 --> 00:39:15,780 Anybody who went to site, can I come? 800 00:39:15,780 --> 00:39:18,180 He was so curious. 801 00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:19,420 He wanted to know everything. 802 00:39:19,420 --> 00:39:21,420 He'd go to everybody's table and ask questions. 803 00:39:21,420 --> 00:39:22,220 What are you doing? 804 00:39:22,220 --> 00:39:23,140 Why is it like this? 805 00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:24,380 Why couldn't you do this? 806 00:39:24,380 --> 00:39:25,260 100 questions. 807 00:39:25,260 --> 00:39:26,860 Irritating fellow. 808 00:39:26,860 --> 00:39:28,180 But so good. 809 00:39:28,180 --> 00:39:28,820 So good. 810 00:39:28,820 --> 00:39:30,540 And he was so good at his work. 811 00:39:30,540 --> 00:39:31,620 So interested. 812 00:39:31,620 --> 00:39:33,460 He was genuinely interested. 813 00:39:33,460 --> 00:39:34,300 Really interested. 814 00:39:34,300 --> 00:39:35,260 Very, very good. 815 00:39:35,260 --> 00:39:36,460 So there are kids like that. 816 00:39:36,460 --> 00:39:38,900 But mostly, it's not easy. 817 00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:42,460 You need a lot of confidence to be like that. 818 00:39:42,460 --> 00:39:43,660 Yeah. 819 00:39:43,660 --> 00:39:44,820 Everyone is not like that. 820 00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:45,660 You cannot be. 821 00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:47,940 Even if you want to ask, think 10 times. 822 00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:49,660 You ask, and it's like a process. 823 00:39:49,660 --> 00:39:50,660 Yeah. 824 00:39:50,660 --> 00:39:52,580 I'm doing this already. 825 00:39:52,580 --> 00:39:55,020 It takes a lot of confidence to actually ask 826 00:39:55,020 --> 00:39:56,540 so many questions, right? 827 00:39:56,540 --> 00:39:59,940 So some of them are quiet and you learn quietly. 828 00:39:59,940 --> 00:40:03,060 But as long as your focus is there, 829 00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:05,700 and as long as you really want to learn, 830 00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:08,460 and as long as you're not just spending your time here 831 00:40:08,460 --> 00:40:10,900 and collecting your salary, it'll take a lot of time. 832 00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:12,140 You will get through it. 833 00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:13,260 You just need that attitude. 834 00:40:13,260 --> 00:40:16,180 So yeah, it seems so strange, Deepika, 835 00:40:16,180 --> 00:40:19,700 that ultimately, those are still the sterling qualities. 836 00:40:19,700 --> 00:40:23,260 Curiosity, a willingness to work, a willingness 837 00:40:23,260 --> 00:40:25,660 to accept that you're wrong, a willingness 838 00:40:25,660 --> 00:40:28,780 to learn new things every day is almost 839 00:40:28,780 --> 00:40:30,100 standard for every career. 840 00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,380 And yet people think that there is some magic behind. 841 00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:35,500 How can you progress in some careers 842 00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:36,540 if there is some shortcut? 843 00:40:36,540 --> 00:40:37,900 There's a shortcut. 844 00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:40,740 The universal qualities to do well in life 845 00:40:40,740 --> 00:40:42,380 will have been told many times. 846 00:40:42,380 --> 00:40:43,940 And you can read about it. 847 00:40:43,940 --> 00:40:46,580 You cannot learn it until you've been through it yourself. 848 00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:47,940 Until you actually get into it. 849 00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:50,380 And it actually pays to work hard. 850 00:40:50,380 --> 00:40:52,900 It actually pays to have a good attitude. 851 00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:57,380 It actually pays to be curious and try to learn new things, 852 00:40:57,380 --> 00:40:58,980 not shy away from work. 853 00:40:58,980 --> 00:41:01,340 And you're just going to office just to spend time 854 00:41:01,340 --> 00:41:02,860 and just to show that you're working. 855 00:41:02,860 --> 00:41:04,300 And you just collect your salary. 856 00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:07,100 You will never get anywhere in the long run. 857 00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:08,380 It's stagnant. 858 00:41:08,380 --> 00:41:09,220 People are not blind. 859 00:41:09,220 --> 00:41:10,100 They can see, right? 860 00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:11,180 What are you doing? 861 00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:13,140 It's not like seniors are sitting there 862 00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:14,500 and they can close their eyes. 863 00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:16,020 And they don't know what is happening. 864 00:41:16,020 --> 00:41:17,020 Yeah, that's true. 865 00:41:17,020 --> 00:41:17,500 They know. 866 00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:18,460 They know from experience. 867 00:41:18,460 --> 00:41:22,820 He was obviously soaking in every little bit of knowledge 868 00:41:22,820 --> 00:41:23,700 that he could. 869 00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:25,540 He was not waiting to be told. 870 00:41:25,540 --> 00:41:28,460 He was not saying that if it comes my way, OK. 871 00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:30,820 He's going out there and putting himself 872 00:41:30,820 --> 00:41:33,420 into every possible situation to learn. 873 00:41:33,420 --> 00:41:34,380 And that's a good thing. 874 00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:35,820 Yeah, that's a good thing. 875 00:41:35,820 --> 00:41:39,180 The office, we had one girl, she had an internship. 876 00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:40,340 She was also there. 877 00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:40,820 OK. 878 00:41:40,820 --> 00:41:42,180 Yes. 879 00:41:42,180 --> 00:41:44,500 As good as full-fledged architects. 880 00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:45,940 Her work was so good. 881 00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:48,340 She would try to understand everything you're telling her. 882 00:41:48,340 --> 00:41:50,020 She'd come and ask questions. 883 00:41:50,020 --> 00:41:52,900 And try to apply some creativity there. 884 00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:55,540 And try to do something even if she's not asked. 885 00:41:55,540 --> 00:41:56,780 Can I do it like this? 886 00:41:56,780 --> 00:42:00,260 But those are rare cases. 887 00:42:00,260 --> 00:42:03,020 Normally, kids are not like that. 888 00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:05,180 But as long as you have the right attitude, 889 00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:06,780 you really want to work. 890 00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:08,340 You have to be honest, right? 891 00:42:08,340 --> 00:42:09,660 You need that. 892 00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:10,740 Sorry. 893 00:42:10,740 --> 00:42:14,140 You need to be honest to your profession. 894 00:42:14,140 --> 00:42:16,300 Actually want to do a good job. 895 00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:17,820 You really want to do a good job. 896 00:42:17,820 --> 00:42:18,940 You do well in anything. 897 00:42:18,940 --> 00:42:19,460 Yeah. 898 00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:21,060 That's all it takes. 899 00:42:21,060 --> 00:42:21,940 That's all. 900 00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:24,980 Whatever you do, you can keep shining clothes and all that. 901 00:42:24,980 --> 00:42:25,940 You want to do a good job. 902 00:42:25,940 --> 00:42:28,100 You don't want to leave any wrinkles there, right? 903 00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:30,300 You want it to be crisp and beautiful. 904 00:42:30,300 --> 00:42:31,540 You can come out well. 905 00:42:31,540 --> 00:42:35,300 You can become the best ironing guy on the street. 906 00:42:35,300 --> 00:42:36,380 Anything you do. 907 00:42:36,380 --> 00:42:37,900 Do it with sincerity. 908 00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:38,620 Good, good. 909 00:42:38,620 --> 00:42:39,700 Best of luck. 910 00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:43,060 Amazing, Deepika, because we've met so many times. 911 00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:46,420 But I've never really delved deep into what 912 00:42:46,420 --> 00:42:48,300 your journey as an architect has been. 913 00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:51,020 And this has been fascinating at so many levels. 914 00:42:51,020 --> 00:42:53,620 Because I didn't know, for example, 915 00:42:53,620 --> 00:42:56,820 that you started off with maths and then got into architecture. 916 00:42:56,820 --> 00:42:59,060 And then it kind of built from there. 917 00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:01,060 It's always difficult being a woman. 918 00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:04,460 It's not, there are things, aspects of the job. 919 00:43:04,460 --> 00:43:06,100 The office may not be the problem. 920 00:43:06,100 --> 00:43:08,900 There are a whole lot of external issues that you face. 921 00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:10,660 And having got through all of them, 922 00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:13,660 and still you have to be a different person when 923 00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:15,220 you're dealing with people like that. 924 00:43:15,220 --> 00:43:17,980 How certain things about the profession never change. 925 00:43:17,980 --> 00:43:21,300 Interest, curiosity, willing to work that extra mile. 926 00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:26,340 And go all the way to ensure that whatever you're building, 927 00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:28,580 whether it's a house for a customer or... 928 00:43:28,580 --> 00:43:33,100 Is there one thing, is these multi-story departments 929 00:43:33,100 --> 00:43:34,980 have become among the most common? 930 00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:40,020 Does that give architects far lesser room to do something? 931 00:43:40,020 --> 00:43:41,740 Or do you feel that that is something 932 00:43:41,740 --> 00:43:44,260 in which you can do a fair amount of work, of innovation? 933 00:43:44,260 --> 00:43:44,780 It shows. 934 00:43:44,780 --> 00:43:45,700 It does. 935 00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:46,700 It wonders. 936 00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:48,140 I think it's lovely. 937 00:43:48,140 --> 00:43:50,140 You can do a really good job. 938 00:43:50,140 --> 00:43:53,300 As long as you don't just treat it like some way of earning 939 00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:55,220 some money, you actually want to do a good job. 940 00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:57,620 Like I said, you take it as a challenge. 941 00:43:57,620 --> 00:43:59,700 Let's try and do a good job and come up with it. 942 00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:00,500 OK. 943 00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:06,540 If it's, let's say, 16 blocks, four homes on every floor, 944 00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:08,060 you'll see even within that, there's 945 00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:11,100 a whole lot of things you can do which should be very interesting. 946 00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:12,180 A whole lot of things. 947 00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:12,940 Absolutely. 948 00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:14,620 Chennai is a tough market. 949 00:44:14,620 --> 00:44:16,580 Builders come to you. 950 00:44:16,580 --> 00:44:19,300 In other cities, you can just do one apartment, 951 00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:21,700 and you can just mirror it and repeat it. 952 00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:24,140 And your job is done, and it's over. 953 00:44:24,140 --> 00:44:26,620 Every apartment has to follow Vasu. 954 00:44:26,620 --> 00:44:27,100 OK. 955 00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:27,940 You believe it. 956 00:44:27,940 --> 00:44:32,580 Builders will come and say every apartment should be as per Vasu. 957 00:44:32,580 --> 00:44:34,500 Makes it easier for them to sell, yeah. 958 00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:36,660 And that is one of the things their customers demand. 959 00:44:36,660 --> 00:44:37,780 It's so difficult. 960 00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:40,660 It's so difficult to design. 961 00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:42,180 And sometimes those are even bigger, 962 00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:45,220 because these are divine laws, not like the company 963 00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:48,580 or the bylaws that are wonderful. 964 00:44:48,580 --> 00:44:52,300 Deepika, thank you again for accepting this. 965 00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:54,620 And it's been a real pleasure. 966 00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:55,660 Wonderful talking to you. 967 00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:57,220 Thanks a ton. 968 00:44:57,220 --> 00:45:00,780 My first job, the podcast, is a production 969 00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:03,340 from Ideascape Communications. 970 00:45:03,340 --> 00:45:06,940 Guest relations, promotions, and creative 971 00:45:06,940 --> 00:45:10,540 is managed by Deepa Ravi with occasional support 972 00:45:10,540 --> 00:45:12,580 by Vindhupal Nair. 973 00:45:12,580 --> 00:45:18,620 Archiving and technical help is provided by LPS Jayachandran. 974 00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:46,180 Wow!