1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,760
Hello there, this is episode 2 of My First Job, the podcast and this time we are looking

2
00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,280
at careers in the healthcare BPO industry.

3
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,640
We have with us a guest who's learnt the ropes and risen to the very top.

4
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:36,720
Gautam Shivraman is Chief Delivery Officer of Access Healthcare and he knows what it means

5
00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:44,800
to build a career and handle the pressure that is there practically every day in the industry.

6
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:51,200
Over to Gautam. Thank you, Venu. It all began 32 years ago for me, the first job and in my

7
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:59,760
current job I have about 10,000 plus in between India and so going back, yeah, so it was June,

8
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:05,760
July 1990, that's when I had passed out with a distinction in chemical engineering. It wasn't

9
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:12,400
a dilemma whether to look for a job or do some post graduation. I wanted to do MBA as well,

10
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,480
but I started applying without really delaying too much because there's only a small window that's

11
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,360
available for applications sent and the first... All of these were written applications, right?

12
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:30,320
All of these were written, you had to actually hand write and then send it as a post or a career,

13
00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:35,840
that's what, there were no emails at that time. So we received the call later, again it came as a

14
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:42,560
proper registered post from Tata Chemicals, very elated to receive that. So this is going to be

15
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,520
my first journey to the western side of the country, always been only to the north. So I figured

16
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:52,640
that the only way to reach Mithapur is to first go to Mumbai and then from there used to be Bombay

17
00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,680
then and from there take another train about seven, eight hours of layover in Bombay. So I had a

18
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:03,120
classmate in Bombay who picked me up the morning that I reached, went to his house and then evening

19
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:09,600
the train was from Mumbai Central at about 8.15. So we reached the station well in time, maybe 7.30,

20
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:18,160
7.40, the rake was already in, I still remember the coach S6, birth number five. Yeah, because

21
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:24,720
I'll tell you why I remember all that. So and then the rake had already come in, there were a few

22
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:29,680
people sitting, there's still about half an hour for the train to leave. So went quickly inside,

23
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,480
kept my bag under the berth, came out to wish him goodbye, we were there for about five minutes

24
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:40,880
outside. Then he left, I went in and lo and behold, my bag was missing. There were two bags, one

25
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:46,640
one airbag and one suitcase, the suitcase went missing. I looked around, couldn't find it,

26
00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:51,920
by then we had all the passengers come in, the train was ready to leave with the help of some

27
00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:56,720
co-passengers. We filed a complaint with the station but I knew it was gone. Basically,

28
00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,880
whatever was there in the bag was gone. Unfortunately, the bag had my interview

29
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:07,440
call letter, some cash, some new clothes, shoes that I bought for the interview and all my original

30
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:13,520
certificates. My God, what a stud. So this is all gone. So I was like too much of a shock for me to

31
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:21,280
wear and by night I had high temperature but still went on since I luckily had the ticket with me

32
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,840
and there was this bag that I had. Again, I need to thank my father for it because he would always

33
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,560
say you have to de-risk everything, do not keep everything in one basket, make sure you at least

34
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:35,920
carry some cash, some clothes in another bag even if you are traveling. So that helped. I had this

35
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:41,520
bag with me. So I eventually managed to stay through the journey, reached this destination

36
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,560
next day evening for a clock. So I started from Mumbai at 8 pm, reached at 4 pm the next day.

37
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:52,560
It was a pretty long journey, almost 18 hours. So I had an accommodation at their guest house.

38
00:03:53,440 --> 00:04:00,400
The first look and feel of the place itself was, I was awestruck by it. It was a huge factory

39
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,720
that was there. You could miss it. That was the only thing that was there in that place.

40
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:12,400
There were townships and people in and around the factory. So once that was done, I went to

41
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,120
the guest house, checked in, actually wondering what has to do, right? Because I don't have the

42
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,920
interview call. I was not sure whether I would be called in for the interview. So I looked through

43
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:28,080
the telephone directory, found a few South Indian names there who were pretty high up in the hierarchy

44
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:33,680
there. So I checked with the receptionist, found out where they stayed and went to meet them.

45
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,680
I got a very good reception. I was received warmly, given South Indian coffee and assured

46
00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:47,120
that things will all be okay and I will be allowed to attend the interview. I will be given time,

47
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,400
if selected, to go back to the college and get my duplicate certificate. So all that worked out well.

48
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:58,000
The next day was the interview. I did well. I got the job and went to the college, got the

49
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:04,960
duplicate certificates and joined this organization. Tata Chemicals in October, 1990. That's when my

50
00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:10,960
first job started. So obviously, this is a rude beginning to my career, right? As you rightly

51
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:16,800
said, very rocky beginning, but I was able to withstand and resilient enough to still manage it.

52
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:26,880
So good induction into the organization and what I was not prepared for is a huge workforce

53
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:32,560
that I had to manage in my hand. The only languages I knew were in the English and Tamil.

54
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,720
This is a typical Katiya word, Gujarati, brook that I had there.

55
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,680
Complete dialect, everything was different. And obviously, there was this blue collar,

56
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,360
white collar divide in that organization as well, just like any other organization.

57
00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,560
There was this, oh, Bada Saab Aagaya, office me engineering karke, kya malo main and all that.

58
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:58,000
So they were like, this guy's just come in fresh and I'm here for 20 plus years and he's now going

59
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:04,480
to be my boss. So one of the first takeaways from that exposure, obviously, I was not spoon fed

60
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:10,000
on the process. I was just thrown into the fire. I had to learn it the hard way.

61
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,160
How did you get over the language thing?

62
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:18,080
So luckily, since I knew Hindi, I was able to manage to start with, but I knew that if you

63
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,840
have to get the job done, I think those are the first management lessons for me. One, you have to

64
00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:28,240
get down to the brass packs, roll up your sleeves to understand the process. For me, there was no

65
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:33,840
choice. I had to do that. I had to literally go down to the brass packs and this is a huge chemical

66
00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:40,560
plant, mind you. So right from every valve to every joint to every storage tank, I had to know

67
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:46,000
what was in it and how the pipelines lead, where they go from one process station to the other

68
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,120
process. Since I had to file maintenance reports as well, so I had to know in and out of all the

69
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:56,240
pipelines, the joints, the valves, I had to know them by name. So nothing better than actually

70
00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:02,480
learning it on the ground with the people who manage it. So that's where I started. I had to

71
00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:08,320
get an emotional connect with the people. Obviously, Bujraj is very sweet language. Everyone

72
00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,960
suddenly becomes your brother, right? Bhai, Gautam Bhai, Venubhai, everyone becomes your brother.

73
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:19,200
So that itself adds a lot of respect to the way you address people. All of them were pretty

74
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,000
old. Some of them were as old as my father as well. I treated them with respect and got along

75
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,480
very well with them. Within three months, I was speaking very fluently with Gujarati, picked up

76
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:33,840
from them, their slang and all that. So it was a successful tenure with Tarasimha. So that would

77
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:39,520
have been a very important part of building bridges, right? Of speaking to them in their language,

78
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:46,080
you know, actually admitting that getting along with them would be one of the most important

79
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:52,800
parts. Rather than create a divide between who you are, like you said, Bada Saavage versus

80
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:59,040
being close to them in several ways. Some of my colleagues did not like me for that because

81
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:04,480
obviously, I used to go sit with them, eat with them. I wasn't in either. So, every day was at a

82
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:11,920
different workstation. One day at this workstation and my whole one walk used to be about a kilometer

83
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,640
and a half, one round of the entire plant. So I used to take about three, four rounds,

84
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:23,280
great fitness exercise as well. Which you continue to this day. I had to climb

85
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:31,200
a huge storage tank, check the top. So it was a completely different learning and

86
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:40,640
almost 60, 70% of those people wept when I left in 1996. So it was a six year tenure. By the time

87
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:47,760
I was ready to leave, obviously I wanted change. I was almost retired in Tata Chemicals. The township

88
00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:52,400
really makes you lazy. You don't have to do anything. Everything was available at the back

89
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,200
I can call. Everything was cheap. People were great. So I could have retired there. But then

90
00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,080
obviously I had aspirations. I wanted to challenge the status. I want to get out of the comfort zone.

91
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:07,840
Plus my parents were alone. My sister had to be married off or she was married while I was there.

92
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,160
Things had to settle at home as well. I want to come back four years of engineering, six years

93
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:18,080
I thought I was away from home for 10 years, come back as well. So that was a very heart-rending

94
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:23,520
departure from there and I moved on. And then to Chennai, you came into Chennai from there?

95
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,520
Yeah, so I came into Chennai. I joined an organization called Kothari Petrochemicals,

96
00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:33,760
part of the Kothari Group. So they were setting up a similar kind of a chemical plant in Kareka.

97
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,440
So I joined that project office as a project engineer, given the fact that I had the experience

98
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:45,440
of having built or being part of the team that built a similar new plant from scratch. So right

99
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:50,880
from buying equipment, testing them, managing the installation of the equipment, actually

100
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,480
conducting a dry run and commissioning the plant. That was a great experience.

101
00:09:54,480 --> 00:10:00,080
Initial months were spent with the purchase team, having negotiations with various vendors.

102
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:05,360
Then later on visited the workshops to actually inspect the equipment before they

103
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,840
be shipped. And then of course the installation and all that. So I was there with them for about

104
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:16,240
2 years, from 1996 to 1998. And is there a point of difference between the cultures? Obviously,

105
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:21,440
Tata is one of the older names and very well known. So was there something that you...

106
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:29,760
Market difference. So obviously, most of the people here were educated. So when I say educated,

107
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:35,120
there were some haunts that all of them had. The only difference between here and there was

108
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:40,720
in Tata chemicals, you could hardly find anyone who's beyond fifth or sixth standard from an

109
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:45,040
educational point. But they had a wealth of experience and all you had to do was connect with

110
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,600
them emotionally and they will just pour out whatever they knew. But here, I could see there

111
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:55,280
is some hesitation in sharing knowledge. They all came from very good organizations with great

112
00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,840
background. But I could see the difference, like you rightly said. I could see the difference in

113
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:05,360
temperament attitude. Not that it bothered me. I continued the same way that I continued in

114
00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:10,800
Tata chemical. Just that I didn't want the plant to work. So they offered me after the project

115
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,680
was all initiated, there's no real work in the project office. So they wanted me to go to the

116
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:21,280
plant in Karikav, relocate. I said, no, the intent was to stay in Chennai. So I'm not going to

117
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:27,840
Karikav. So I came back. I actually worked as a consultant there after for about a year.

118
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:34,000
Even the fact that I had this commissioning experience and all that. So as I joined a friend

119
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:39,760
who already had an consulting firm and we used to liars with equipment manufacturers and support them

120
00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:47,440
for erection and maintenance and all that. So through that is when my passport got the first

121
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:53,360
stamping. So I managed to fly out of the country, went to Malaysia, Singapore. So that was my first

122
00:11:53,360 --> 00:12:03,760
outside the country visit. Around 99 is when the entire world was moving towards Y2K.

123
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:10,000
The Y2K bug was starting to bite everyone. The dotcom company is the IT boom that happened there.

124
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:16,080
Obviously, I was also attracted towards it. But I obviously did not have any IT or programming

125
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:21,120
background other than the ops background. I was looking for an organization that could utilize

126
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:26,000
my ops experience. And I could also make the transition from being a chemical engineer to an

127
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:32,000
operations manager. And that's where I got this break from. Vetry software. They were pioneers

128
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:39,280
of IT enabled services during that time. They started in 1993 headed by a great leader and

129
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:46,560
mentor Raju Venkatraman. So I joined them in 99 and not look back after that. So I just progressed

130
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:52,720
in the BPO journey thereafter from 99 to 2023 now, about 23 years now.

131
00:12:52,720 --> 00:13:00,880
Yeah. But again, this is another sea change from the plant and to a service led industry in IT.

132
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:08,320
Absolutely. Worlds apart. Worlds apart. And here we had the, again, the difference was

133
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:14,880
at manage a lot of youngsters just come out of college. And that's where we used to have

134
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,680
pressures. So with maybe life sciences background or at least a science or mathematics value,

135
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:24,960
because you had a good aptitude. And then we used to have customized training modules to bring them

136
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,760
up to speed with the processes and then take them through the curve. So completely different ball

137
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:37,360
game. But given the fact that I had the basics, right, I could, I could adapt faster. Managing

138
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:43,280
change is has always been a challenge, but that is what has brought the fruits as well. So once

139
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:50,560
you adapt to the change and you manage it, then you get to see the fruits constantly seeking change

140
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:55,600
has been an end of that. So when I go into comfort zone, I become restless.

141
00:13:55,600 --> 00:14:01,680
But can you pinpoint a reason why you chose IT? Was it mainly because of the overwhelming,

142
00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:08,560
let's say, impact that IT was creating around that time? Because, I mean, logically, I'm saying if

143
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:14,720
you already had about six to eight years of experience in the chemical industry, most people

144
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:21,600
tend to leverage experience within an existing field rather than move into something all afresh

145
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,720
because they say, I don't know enough about this business. So is there a certain amount of risk

146
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:33,680
taking even while you're on a career path while you're looking for it? It was a big risk. So I had

147
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:39,440
to consult a lot of people. My father had a lot of acquaintances within the industry and

148
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:45,920
we met quite a few of them before we took this decision. In fact, I started my CEC plus Java,

149
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,720
those kind of programs as well, because if this is going to be the career shift that I was going to

150
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:55,040
make, then I was told that you will need to know all these languages. So basically, they assumed

151
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,200
that the only way I could survive is actually doing programming. But obviously, I had no

152
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:05,760
aptitude for programming. My forte was ops management, people process. That's where I wanted

153
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:13,120
to go. And the most candid aspect was, despite eight, nine years in the chemical industry,

154
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:20,000
I was not earning well. This is one area where not just the boom in the industry, but the pay was

155
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:26,800
also. That's another lucrative option that I had to look at. And to be fair, within two years of

156
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:34,080
joining this industry, I built my first house. So you can imagine the kind of monetary benefits

157
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:40,160
that I've got because of the shift I did. So I think it was a risk worth taking. And thankfully,

158
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:45,840
I was able to manage and wait through. So do you think change happened first in your mind with

159
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:51,680
respect to, I think I need to make a change and then you begin to explore options or is it that

160
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,240
there is a certain amount of pressure, which is why you respond to it. I'm trying to get a little

161
00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:03,440
deeper into how this transition. This particular change was actually pressure because like I said,

162
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:10,080
so Tata Chemical 6 years, great. I loved every day. Two years with Kotari, again, great as long as

163
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,360
the project was initiated. But once the option of going to the factory was given, I did not like it.

164
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:22,400
Then a year as a consultant, right? So it was like on and off. There were days where I had

165
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:27,680
nothing to do. There were days like where I was traveling and doing a lot. Somehow something

166
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:33,280
was not right. I had to settle down in life. It's too early in my career to be doing a consulting

167
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:39,840
role where the remuneration is on and off. It was only used to be basically a task given. There was

168
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:47,360
no fixed income. So that's the reason that forced me to accept this change. But thereafter, so

169
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,960
let's say for Vetri Software, that organization became liaison. I was there with them for about

170
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:58,560
five years. So my tenure and streams have been pretty long, almost every organization. And

171
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:04,320
thereafter, I joined another organization, First Source, where I was there for six years. So as

172
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:10,240
you can see, the shift did not happen very frequently thereafter. I was pretty secure. I wanted to make

173
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:17,040
sure whatever trust was enforced on me, I lived up to those and I was accountable for a lot of

174
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:22,240
growth aspects that were given to me. So I did not want to change just for the sake of changing and

175
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:28,240
a few rupees more. Now the BPO industry in India has grown by leaps and bounds. There's also the

176
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:34,640
other side which says that a whole lot of work is routine, mechanical. How do you see this changing?

177
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:40,320
Do you believe that this is one of the things that has a long-term kind of thing or how is it

178
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:46,080
that it's going to play out over the next few years? So when I started, the only thing that was

179
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:54,080
driving outsourcing to countries like India, Philippines, China was the cost arbiter. So

180
00:17:54,080 --> 00:18:00,640
all these countries were at least 35-40% cheaper at a per hour rate when compared to the US. That

181
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:07,360
was the main reason why work was moving to India offshore basically. But as things have evolved,

182
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:14,720
as we've got more and more diverse people joining this industry, our skill sets have also improved.

183
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:20,880
Every organization, BP organization, maybe started with just the basic scanning or data entry, but

184
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:27,760
then they have moved on up the chain, be it the provider side or the payer side. There are a lot

185
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:34,720
of high skilled resources that so let's take for example, if you have you're part of the call center,

186
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:40,720
then there's a certain skill that you need to have, your language skills, your neutral access,

187
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:48,000
ability to interact with the person on the other side who the US and extract information. So that's

188
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:54,320
a niche skill. Similarly, you have something called coding. You actually create a bill using the codes,

189
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,280
the diagnosis procedure code. Again, very, very niche skill. So you have something called

190
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:06,480
adjudication of the claim, very niche. So as the years have progressed, the skill set and the

191
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:13,040
the process that countries like India have taken up are very, very complex in nature. And we probably

192
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:19,920
do a better job than actually the US personnel. That's amazing. How do you actually recruit for

193
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:25,360
these kinds of skills? When you have such a niche requirement, how do you even begin? Is it that

194
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:32,640
the training process internally? It's all about training. So yeah, you can probably have a competitor,

195
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:37,360
I can coach a few good people from him, but that's not going to last you forever unless you have

196
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:44,640
foundational training program that really nurtures a fresher into becoming a skilled resource.

197
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,920
So I think these organizations that I'm talking about have invested a lot in training, building

198
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,800
the training curriculum. So the first source, the organization that I joined after Vetri,

199
00:19:54,800 --> 00:20:03,200
they spent almost 17,000 hours just understanding what process they should be, just creating the

200
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,360
training model when they did not even have a customer. So that's the kind of investment I'm

201
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:12,240
talking about where really build the curriculum and obviously get the right people who have the

202
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,040
aptitude to train, right? Not everyone can train, even if you're a subject matter expert, you should

203
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,520
have the ability to train people. So you have to get the right trainers and you have to get the

204
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,320
right content in and then you have to lay out the module in such a way it becomes easy for a

205
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:34,160
fresher to understand, assimilate, a lot of hands-on experience given before he or she actually

206
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:41,200
goes into the job and then over the months of experience through mistake-proofing, the word

207
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,160
that I use often is obviously you learn only to make mistakes. As long as you learn from your

208
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,640
mistakes and then you can improve upon that, that's when you're mistake-proofing and you're becoming

209
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:58,000
better at your job. So those are the aspects. Okay, let me take you and do slightly one direction

210
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:03,040
that I want to explore a little more is when you start out on the job, you're doing almost

211
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:09,200
everything yourself, you're learning and then it becomes a point as to how do you begin to train

212
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:16,080
or build a team, whether requirement now shifts from you doing your job to getting something done

213
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,760
from others. So there's a mind shift there, that's one aspect. So I'd like you to spend a little time

214
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:29,200
on how you made the transition from being a person who got the job, who did the job to

215
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:35,280
a point where you got it done and first within a small team and then as the team expanded,

216
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,760
what do you think are the changes that you personally underwent?

217
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:46,240
So to start with, I was actually fortunate that where my first job itself was managing like 40-50

218
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:55,520
people. I joined already as a leader. So I did not. So I was probably fortunate. It was not an

219
00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,120
individual contributor role, it was more of a leadership role again. I was the shift in charge,

220
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,280
but again, you had to learn from those people. So I've already extended, but when I moved into

221
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:13,120
BPO again, we had some set spans. So for example, if a team leader you manage to be 15, so these

222
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:19,280
are all tried and tested span ratios that were already in place. So if you're a manager, then

223
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:24,320
maybe you manage three team leaders, which means you have 45-50. There are some organizations who

224
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:30,640
create the span basis, the revenue manage, there are some that create these spans basis, the people

225
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:36,400
to be managed. Again, depending on the skill set of people, so if you have a very high skill set,

226
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:42,160
then spans could be optimized slightly lower. But if you have an average skill set, then you could

227
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:49,600
have higher span. But one is to 25 is the best or the uppermost limit, I would say for a team

228
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,920
leader to manage because he or she then has to connect with them all through the shift.

229
00:22:53,920 --> 00:23:03,040
Even our layout in the BPO industry used to be a cluster of 25, 12, each row, and then the leader

230
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,520
sitting right in the middle. So that's how the cluster were also designed those days to make

231
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,000
sure that each cluster was a team and one is to 25, they were managing the cluster. It was like a

232
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,760
home for them, away from home as a family, so they bonded well, celebrated birthdays,

233
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,440
celebrated small successes. Those cultures were completely different from what I had.

234
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,880
So that's the shift I had to make, I just did. And then I learned and I innovated,

235
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:36,640
created more opportunities to celebrate. Fund has become a default value in our industry today

236
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,760
because there's so much stress and pressure at work that you have to de-stress people from that.

237
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:50,640
You have to quickly have a lot of fun, literally have your hair down, have fun. That's the kind of

238
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:58,160
culture we built over the years. And as a leader, I've tried to fan, emanate, and maybe attract

239
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:04,240
some of my leaders who shy away from maybe singing, dancing. So I go down, I sing, I dance,

240
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,840
have fun with the people and it makes the others also emulate. So each leader has their own style,

241
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,000
but this is how I have managed things. And you asked another thing.

242
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,960
Yeah, the other direction, sorry, yeah, please continue.

243
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:22,240
Yes, as to how you manage as you grow. So obviously, manager becomes a senior manager,

244
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:28,000
general manager, which means that his or her span improved. The focus should be on governance,

245
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:33,200
dashboards, objectively measuring performance. And you have client SLAs, client targets that

246
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,840
you have to make. So your dashboards, your daily governance, weekly governance is what actually

247
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:43,760
helps you control the game. Okay, now the other thing that I want to look at is your interaction

248
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:50,320
with clients when you're heading delivery. It's the biggest problems that get escalated to you.

249
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:57,360
So how is it that you keep calm and how is it that you manage? How do you know what needs to be

250
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:03,600
done to handle a crisis? Yeah, so I think the culture we've built, not just me, I think across

251
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,400
the multiple organizations is give me the bad news first. So that's the culture we built. So

252
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:15,200
obviously, we need to know that we have a problem before the customer tell. So we have to have enough

253
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,960
control points, measurement systems in place for us to keep a constant tab on how we perform,

254
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,160
whether it is quality, whether it is turnaround time, it has to be, that's why that's what I spoke

255
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:32,080
about the governance, right? So the dashboards have to help you with the right metrics to tell you in

256
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,720
advance that, hey, this is good, the trend is not looking right. If this continues, then we're going

257
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,760
to fail their sale proactively, you're able to take money and to prevent failures. But due to some

258
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,560
unforeseen circumstance, if there is a failure that happened, then I've seen nine out of 10

259
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,760
customers love it when you tell them before they realize, you'll be proactive about telling them.

260
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,760
So you're telling them I have a problem which I'm sorry? Yeah, you're telling them that, hey,

261
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,880
I'm going to fail or I have failed before they tell me. But there are instances where I'm not,

262
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,080
where it is the other way around, where we know that there's something that we could not measure and

263
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:12,160
their end customer escalated and come as a complaint. So those are the instances few and far between,

264
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,840
but predominantly, I think we have enough robust systems in place today where we are able to have

265
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:23,600
a pulse on the system and proactively react, not react, be proactive and correct.

266
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,600
Fix it. There's a nuance on what you just asked, you can read this, Kotham.

267
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:34,640
Okay, Ganesh is asking. This is as Ganesh Kalyan Krishnan wants to know about this.

268
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:41,680
Yeah, so Ganesh, just to answer your question, right? So there the 40 odd people that I managed

269
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:48,560
were all heads of their workstation. So I had to just go about managing and go visit their workstation,

270
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:54,720
see what basically the job was to look at the process metrics, control parameters, record them.

271
00:26:54,720 --> 00:27:00,560
So my job was to make sure that anyone and everyone who's there in my shift at each workstation

272
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,040
had their metrics in place, had their control points in place, the pumps were all running,

273
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:10,400
the storage tanks were all adequately managed, the pressure systems are all running,

274
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,480
equipments have to work in a large factory setup. If your process control equipment fail,

275
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,040
then you have a serious issue. So that's where you have to be proactive in terms of

276
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,480
getting those repaired and all that. That predominantly was my task. I really did not

277
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,640
have to get them to work because they were not doing any work. It is all process control, right?

278
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,640
So the pump is running, it's running, it is doing its job. I don't have to manage the pump. I have

279
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:42,240
to manage the person who's manning the pump. It was easy there. But when I moved to BPO, then I had

280
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:48,000
to literally get the best out of every individual. That's when the span becomes an issue. As a human,

281
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,960
you cannot really manage more than 25 itself as a stretch. But if it's really a skilled team,

282
00:27:52,960 --> 00:28:01,280
then one is to 20 would be the ideal. So within a team, now you have your core

283
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,640
reporters, that is, there's a set of people like who are themselves managing very large teams and

284
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:14,320
stuff. So when it comes to rising within an organization, what are the mental gears that

285
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,960
you have to shift? So the first thing you need to do is succession planning. So obviously,

286
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,120
you need to make sure someone else is ready to take up your job. That's when you can grow. So let's

287
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:30,240
say I'm managing a team of 25, someone from within that team has to be ready to manage it in my apps.

288
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:36,240
So I have to groom. So as a leader, it becomes essential that you groom your successor. And

289
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:42,240
it's an unwritten rule. You have to make sure you develop people who are better than you at the

290
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,800
job that you're doing. They have to be better than you. It's easier said than done. It takes a lot

291
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:52,960
of mentoring, coaching, delegating effectively and supporting them if they fail, all that so that

292
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,600
they get the confidence to take their own decision. Once they're ready, obviously, you know, then you

293
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,120
can probably expand your span from one team. Now I can manage two teams and that's how you grow.

294
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,400
So it has to be all about finding the right person to do the job that you've been doing so that you

295
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:15,760
can do, you can expand your role. So can you tell me about some instances where, let's say you found

296
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:22,640
a particular difficult situation and then what was your response? Take us through one of the scenarios.

297
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,080
Deepar Avi has asked us, how do you manage this particular thing when people were working from?

298
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,960
So the pandemic has taught us a lot of lessons. First of all, none of us were prepared for the

299
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:38,560
pandemic. Like I said, we have these clusters where we manage the teams. We're all looking at them

300
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:46,160
face to face in person, we used to driving production that way. And suddenly May 23rd, 2020 happened.

301
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,520
You say that you can no longer work in office, go home. So we've not even factored working from home

302
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:56,720
as part of the IT setup itself. So it was a lesson for all of us. Obviously, a lot of us stumbled,

303
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:02,880
but I think most of us managed to do what we did. We managed to get the systems to the employee

304
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:09,760
homes. We managed to build infrastructure that could connect to every home and then through

305
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,080
that network to the centralized servers, through the servers, to the customer system.

306
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:21,200
It all happened within a matter of a month. I think maybe by the end of April, most of the

307
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:27,200
BPO companies are up and running with almost 60-70% of the staff, fully equipped to work from.

308
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:32,560
So how exactly did you go about that? You looked at the people who are in charge of

309
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:38,000
certain things and told them or was there a fair amount of understanding with teams which had

310
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:44,480
already gelled within a proper work environment to then go ahead and do things that they had

311
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,440
not been required to do earlier? So obviously, all of us had to do this weight lifting in the sense,

312
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,000
literally, we had to pick systems and run. And obviously, the admin or the IT did not have enough

313
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,680
staff to make sure. So one thing that we did is we sent the systems to each of the employees

314
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,320
as and when they were leaving the office. So they had the system up and running with them.

315
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:12,640
Then obviously, we set up. That's when all these Zooms and GoToMeetings and MS teams

316
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:19,040
really became valuable, where we could address multiple people at the same time to a Zoom session.

317
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,240
Her desk was set up and people could log in and say, oh, this is not working for me. That is not

318
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,760
working for them. The expert will tell them how to get this done. So these are the lessons that

319
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:35,920
the pandemic has taught us that you can actually work better through a hybrid model. I know of

320
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:41,520
some organizations who actually let go of the physical space. They are now happy doing 100%

321
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:48,000
work from home. Okay. So they don't have any physical space. How did you reassure your clients who

322
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:54,560
suddenly didn't have the same access and that they had earlier? And what are the steps that you took

323
00:31:54,560 --> 00:32:00,960
to ensure that you would manage this? Obviously, the first thing that happened was the fourth major

324
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:08,240
class came into play where none of the SLAs were applicable. Obviously, given such a major

325
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,600
development, we could not stick to those SLAs. So for some time, maybe three months,

326
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,800
six months, depending on how things were, we got that SLA holiday, which means we really did not

327
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,320
have to worry about day to day measurements of SLAs. But eventually, obviously, there was a

328
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,480
backlog that was building up. Eventually, we had to get rid of the backlog and get caught up. So

329
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,200
that gave us the breathing time and we kept assuring. The only way we could assure the customers

330
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,720
was through constant communication, daily calls, stand-up meetings and saying, okay, now 30% of

331
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:44,640
the team is up and running, 40% is up and running. This is the age. So in our business, it's all

332
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,680
about claims and how old they are and the system tells them, okay, this is the oldest claim in

333
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,160
the system. This is what we do down from the oldest to the youngest. That's what we manage. This is

334
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,640
the plan for the next week. We don't know what's going to happen next, but these are the people that

335
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:04,160
so it used to be constant communication progress every week. As long as we were able to show progress

336
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,960
every week and eventually reach a state where I think in both the organizations that I served

337
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,560
during the pandemic, we were back to meeting the SLAs within three to four months. It is just that

338
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:20,080
window that we needed to settle into a complete work from home. Okay. Now in terms of the

339
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:26,480
selecting people, which is what I think some of the younger viewers of this podcast will be

340
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:33,200
interested in knowing. So how exactly do you go about recruiting people and what is it that people

341
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:39,040
coming into the industry should expect? Good question. So again, depending on the

342
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,720
type of process that we're hiring, right? So in our particular kind of industry, every organization

343
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:51,040
today is prepared to work on a hybrid mode where you have people working from home as well as

344
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:56,800
becoming an ongoing kind of a BCP scenario where you don't have everyone working. So at least 20 to

345
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:03,920
30% of the population is always working. And therefore your infra and firewall, everything is

346
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,360
protecting this hybrid mode. And we sold that to our customers. Customers have done the audits,

347
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:15,520
pretty satisfied with what we have set up. So this is the, in fact, competition, that's how

348
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:21,200
they lure, right? So for example, we have competitors who tell our employees saying, oh, you asked to

349
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,160
work in office for the first six months, you can work from home from day one, come join us. We'll

350
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:31,600
also give you a 15% increment. That's how they lure them. But obviously, when they're, it looks

351
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,840
greener from this side, when they go there, they find that it's completely different.

352
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:42,080
How exactly do you? So the processes are divided based on the skill sets. So depending on what

353
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:47,200
kind of skill set we need, there is a minimum requirement to hire. So it could be a life sciences.

354
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,840
There could be some process where we would not hire freshers, we would need experience. And there

355
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:58,080
would be process where we could hire freshers, but with good English speaking skills for the

356
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,480
voice process. So that's it. Those are the two or three nuances that you have to take care

357
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,480
from a minimum requirement. As long as you get that minimum requirement to hire, right?

358
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,440
The recruitment team is happy. So they know which source to target, where to pull people.

359
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:18,960
Once the recruitment is done, then each of these process streams has specific training module,

360
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,520
right from pre-process to process, then of course, certification. And then they go through a very

361
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:30,240
scientifically structured ramp. So they have to start from zero to let's say 10, 15 claims per

362
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:38,000
day. That's a goal, four weeks, six weeks. It's all well tested out, laid out nicely. Glide path,

363
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:43,680
we call it. Glide smoothly, go up the curve in terms of speed, make sure we focus on accuracy,

364
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,280
did your accuracy right. And that's how they become a steady state resource. So the progression

365
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,800
from a ramp to a steady state happens when they've started hitting the regular goals on a daily

366
00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:01,200
day. Thereafter, they're all steady, steady state resources. One year into the steady state bucket,

367
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,320
they become eligible to become leaders. They go through internal job postings. They go through

368
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,320
interview panels. If they're really good, like you said, they become the transition from managing

369
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:19,840
oneself to managing 20 people. And for those young leaders, we have a dedicated training

370
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:25,120
program on how to be a good leader, how to manage people, what are the tricks of the trade, the

371
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:33,840
tips, that's the continuous learning. Now, the BP industry is highly processed. So is there any

372
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:38,560
room for creativity within this for people who want a very structured environment where they

373
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:45,360
learn, where they'll do well, is where a BP is best suited. So how do people make out before they

374
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:51,840
begin as to whether this is what they are about or they're not. Yeah. So like I said, so first

375
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:57,200
two years, you will have to be process driven to this industry to be constantly efficient and

376
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:04,400
effective. So but there are processes. So again, typically how the BP environment is, right? Most

377
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,680
of the processes are actually dictated by the customer. So you actually have to work on their

378
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,640
system. So there's not much you can do from an innovation or a process change. But there are

379
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,840
processes where customers outsource and allow you to manage using your own product. There you can

380
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:24,400
do a lot of innovation. You can talk about non-value added steps, you can talk about innovation,

381
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:31,840
you can talk about using technology to improve product one. Where there is no scope for innovation,

382
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:37,440
there is scope for moving from one function to the other. So for example, if you are in operation,

383
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,080
okay, you say, oh, two years in operation bugs me, I want to lose. You have the attitude to teach,

384
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:47,440
you can go into training. If you have the aptitude to you have the right vision, the right eye,

385
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:54,160
the microscopic lens to actually catch the errors, you move into service quality. If you are good at

386
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:00,080
mentoring, coaching, then we have these green belts and black belt programs where you can become

387
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:06,480
certified quality professional and drive in process lab leading. Okay, you don't want that,

388
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,440
you want to go into software development. Okay, if you have the right aptitude skill set, you can

389
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:17,120
move into software where it's all about innovation, practices, machine learning, AI, you name it, we

390
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:23,040
have it. So it's about the individual where he or she wants to go. But the problem with today's

391
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:28,960
generation is I think they're not clear on what they want to do. They probably are not very sticky

392
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:34,080
in terms of sticking on to one job, building a career, very few people, most of them,

393
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,680
they would jump. They were a competition. Why is that important? Why is it so hard for people to

394
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:45,920
understand that you will only learn when you spend more time doing something over and over again?

395
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:51,040
I think just constantly reiterating the fact that you have opportunities to grow here. You really

396
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:56,800
don't have to jump jobs just because someone else is offering a few rupees more, 5000 or 20%

397
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:02,560
more, 30% more. Some of them offer a scene, 40%. I don't know how they manage. So just to your

398
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:08,320
people. But at the end of the day, he's still a processor. He's not growing in his career as a

399
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:15,200
leader or he's not taking the next step. Those aspects are some things that we'll have to constantly

400
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,000
keep telling our team where we tell them these are the opportunities. And we need to have a very

401
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,520
fair and transparent performance management system where you are really differentiating the

402
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:30,800
performers and the pretenders. So constantly make sure your performers get the reward that they

403
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:36,400
deserve. Unless you have the same yardstick to measure people with and you differentiate,

404
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,840
okay, you are rated 5, you get 20%. You are rated 1, you don't get any increase. That difference has

405
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:46,160
to be made on performance, objective performance. That happens. Let me turn a phrase there. The

406
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:52,080
performers versus the pretenders. And you're saying some of these because for some people,

407
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,400
they are great survivors. The pretenders are great survivors. They're survivors. Yeah,

408
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,640
they survive because you're not measuring them. They know you're not measuring them and they'll

409
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:06,160
survive. So for us to make sure that the performers are rewarded and the pretenders are sieved

410
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,200
off, I think you need to have very good performance. And I think that's where we've really invested our

411
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:16,560
time in in terms of creating these reports, real time production management, user level report,

412
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,440
which help our leaders to manage their teams from the age old days when everything used to be

413
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,480
either pads or Excel. Now the system will tell you who's performing, who's you come in, log in

414
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,760
today, you know what you produced yesterday, what was your quality score, everything is all

415
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:39,440
dashboarded. For you personally, Gautam, how do you view a career journey? What is your understanding?

416
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:45,040
Again, this is just me. So I can only speak about myself, right? Every time I look at a youngster

417
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:51,360
walking into our door, I remember my anecdote before my first job. Okay, so I that is, that's

418
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:57,760
never going to disappear. That's like an impressive thing with me. So yeah, to be make sure that

419
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:04,320
every person walking in gets a sense of belonging, gets a sense of I am respected and needed here.

420
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:11,360
Most organizations, we let the trainers take that role. I think some organizations have now

421
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,600
started making sure at least four or five organizations that I know, where some of the senior

422
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,160
leaders who talk to these people right at the beginning, first week of joining, you have the

423
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,400
senior leaders talking to them, you're telling them, this is the organization, this is where you're

424
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:29,280
going to come in after complete training, rest assured, we'll take care of you. That's a lot of

425
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:36,480
important steps to make sure they become entrenched and anchored. Otherwise, they're

426
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,840
like left out as orphans, don't know what's going to happen next. A trainer has his or her job to do.

427
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,480
Okay, I have these modules to cover. He's not going to worry about engaging and telling them

428
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,480
about this. That needs to come from leaders who are going to manage them in the future. So those

429
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:55,200
are some aspects that are very, very important. So as a leader, that's how we have evolved,

430
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:00,800
right from managing oneself, trying to manage others, trying to balance between people and tasks.

431
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,760
It's not easy. There are some very tough decisions one has to take as we go up the ladder, but I

432
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:11,360
have shied away from laying off people as much as possible, try to accommodate as long as they're

433
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:17,600
performed in various processes in my previous job as well, to ensure that we continue their

434
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,000
livelihood. For most of them, this is their life. At the same time, we have to look at cost, we have

435
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:29,920
to look at profits, we have to make sure that we are right stuff. It's a constant balance. I always

436
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:35,280
tell my team, it's the triangle, right? It has to be equal. It's a people business customer. It has

437
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,160
to be equal. There could be instances where it could stretch and become an obtuse triangle because

438
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,280
our customer needs everything. At any cost, you have to make sure SLAs are mine. People take a hit,

439
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,840
business takes a hit. Then suddenly, there's pressure on profitability. You have to cut

440
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:57,360
cost, maybe cut salaries, cut transport. Then again, people take a hit. So you have to really

441
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:03,680
make sure that whatever decision, it's not easy, but as much as possible, try and make sure customer

442
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:09,280
people, business are all equally balanced as much as possible. That's the only way to continue this

443
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:14,560
journey without really getting hurt. Wonderful. But are there any closing thoughts that you would

444
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,400
have for young people who are evaluating their own skills and seeing where they'll be happy?

445
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:28,080
How do they begin? Youngsters today are very clear on what they want to do. Plus, when I was,

446
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:33,040
I just completed 12th, the only options I had was either be an engineer or be a doctor. That's it.

447
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:39,200
Okay. So obviously, biology was not my cup of tea. I took up engineering. But today,

448
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:45,360
even before they start going to 11th, they know clearly what they have. There are almost 440

449
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:50,800
professional streams available when compared to the two that I am aware of. In the science stream

450
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:56,800
itself, so then you have commerce, then you have mathematics, you have statistics, you name it.

451
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:02,800
So there's a wealth of opportunity available today. Kids today know exactly what they want to do.

452
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:08,560
So but they need some capital, right? They want some independence, they need some capital. So

453
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:16,240
maybe for some, BPO becomes easy way to earn some good money for one year, two years and then

454
00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:22,320
use that capital that they built to go into a career. So this is where it becomes important to

455
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:29,040
make sure you hire the right people. So you need to see through the highly qualified person. He

456
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:35,120
or she may not stick. You may have higher attrition. So that has to be balanced. But yes, as long as

457
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,080
everyone's aware of what they want to do and if BPO is the career that they want to take and within

458
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:45,600
BPO, like I've mentioned, there are so many opportunities available, you can really build

459
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:53,200
a very good career. Great. So just to summarize, Gautam, from losing all your all important files

460
00:44:54,320 --> 00:45:02,720
on that train from Bombay to heading one of the largest delivery teams in a BPO that caters to

461
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:08,960
some of the most finicky medical establishments in the US because that process I've been told is

462
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:15,680
extremely hard to get. Yes. It's been a long journey. So thank you for taking us through each

463
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:20,800
of the process. And I think you broke down a lot of the steps in terms of how you made the transition

464
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:27,040
from chemical engineering to the decisions that you made on getting into the BPO and what your

465
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:32,880
strengths were and how each one of those strengths were leveraged over time. Thank you. It's been

466
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:38,240
wonderful talking to you. Watch out for our next episode. Follow us on LinkedIn and Facebook.

467
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:57,600
Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Thank you, Gautam. Thank you very much. I'm ending YouTube. Thank you.