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Welcome to the show, PGS.

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Great to have you on board.

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And I hope we have a lovely conversation.

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So why don't we start at the beginning?

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Why don't we go back to 1986 when you graduated from IIT, BHU,

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and life stretched before you.

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And you were thinking of what needs to be done next.

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Why don't we go back into those memories and see where things go from here?

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Okay, good.

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It's actually always a great pleasure to act to anything before 1986.

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For four years of being in hospital with all this self-pressure.

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Right. And 1986 is when the campus interview started.

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And a very interesting experience of campus interview.

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And I must share it that I was not the top rankers in the...

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I was just an actor.

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And I had two opportunities when I started my campus jobs.

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Once with Tata Ceramics, which was in...

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Somewhere in Orissa, I forgot the name of the place.

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The other one was with ITC Badrachalam Pepper Boards.

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That time it was known as that.

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Now, of course, it's known as ITC Limited Paper Division.

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Very interestingly, I chose ITC or Tata Ceramic that time.

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Though the fact that Tata was a very strong name in the campus.

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And Tata Ceramic was paying me more also.

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It's very funny.

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I mean, the salary paid offered by Tata Ceramic to me was at least 15% more.

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And those days, the starting salary was 1400 at ITC for me.

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And 15% more over 1400 would have met quite a lot for me.

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It was a big money then.

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One of the reasons why I chose and that's where my thinking process started in terms of which one to choose and where to move.

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The guys who came to interview me.

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So when I discuss with people on campus interviewing, I like to narrate this to them always.

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The guys who came to interview from Tata Ceramic were normal bureaucrat look, mechanical look, medical transaction.

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No emotions attached to interview.

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It was very normal process.

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The guys who came from the ITC to do the interview.

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Exactly.

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So it was very mechanical.

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Okay.

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And the guys who came from ITC.

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It's amazing how these interactions give you your first impression of how the company is atmosphere.

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And what the environment in which you work is likely.

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So it's exactly.

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You have a sixth sense about what is the kind of person who's interviewing me.

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And what are the questions they ask.

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So if they go through the motions, then you get the feeling that yeah, that is exactly how life will be at this place.

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Sorry, I just cut it.

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Exactly.

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Oh no, no, it's wonderful.

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And beautifully.

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Yeah.

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One was special and another person was HR head.

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I still remember their name and look the Tata Ceramic.

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I don't even remember who came.

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I remember the gentleman's name was Ph Rao.

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Wow.

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And yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Amazing questions, amazing and for giving me the offer letter, they called us for dinner in the hotel where they were staying.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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Now, as a student, you get excited when someone senior calls you for a dinner, you know, nothing like that.

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So, we had dinner, we had a long history.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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And it was fun on the dinner table.

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They did not discuss a single book.

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They were just having fun.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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This is where I can work.

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Okay.

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So, and I think that drove to a large extent a decision that I made for joining ITC Badrachala Bekhar Boards.

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Like most of the students who wanted job for me, this was a great job.

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Of course, there were students who also wanted to do higher studies.

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They went for that.

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I, while I always love to do research, but that's not something that I could have afforded that time.

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I had to start my earning.

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So, that's how I got into it.

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Okay.

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So, then the choice was limited to which company should I join?

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Because I have to get a job.

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Exactly.

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I don't have much of a choice in terms of whether I can work or delay that process.

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So, let me at least make the best of what I have right now.

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And at least that first step is something where I'm reasonably sure that I will learn from this company.

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Even if I don't earn the same amount of money.

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Correct.

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Okay.

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Correct.

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Okay.

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Correct.

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I think I learned a lot.

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Okay.

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I just want to stick with the interview part for a little while longer because I think that's one of the things that people tend to gloss over as to, I think we've discussed it where you said when senior people from the company actually come for the interview and spend that time, it actually makes a big difference to the candidates.

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The candidate who's being interviewed.

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It's not just about true.

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The questions asked. It's also about how much of importance is accorded to that. And like you said, they even converted the process of handing over the letter into one of those dinner occasions.

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It could have been handed officially and then said, okay, come and join.

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But they spent that time.

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So these are the little things I think which make a world of difference.

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Yeah.

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So in fact, I tell this to my colleagues on just one small thing on that particular point I tell this often to the people who are into recruitment, or people who are doing interviews.

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I tell them, the guys, you are not hiring you are selling your company to a candidate.

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Yes.

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Even the hiring managers need to work as a manager.

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Right.

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That's true.

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But in these days, sometimes I wonder ever since the IT boom started, where companies recruit 20, 30,000 people a year.

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Some of these things have just become, I mean, I doubt if there is more than five or seven minutes spent on each candidate, or even less, depending on how, you know, things evolve.

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When you break it down and then say a company has to take in so many people in a given calendar year that directly reduces the amount of time, the resources that are available, and everything else that follows.

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Sometimes I think.

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Commodization of hiring process.

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So, so how do you think that while we've been able to do it tremendously well, I think Indian IT companies did a great job of being able to hire huge numbers of people in the early days and that scaling was an important reason for their success.

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But since you've worked with tech solutions and you've worked with IT companies, what do you think, what did they do to ensure that they got those numbers in?

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How did they have to change internally?

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One, I think.

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It becomes very important. It's very important. And that's why if you look at most of the initial hiring processes, there was a concept of shadowing. One person is attached with one senior person to work with always.

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Okay.

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So that's a process was adopted by many people and I think that worked well. And the industries were into help us. That was possible for them to do it.

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Okay. Okay. Wonderful. So then why don't you tell us what happened once you joined ITC Bhadrachalam. What happened from there?

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So me and my classmate landed up at ITC Bhadrachalam Paperboards. We found there were another 25, 30 people that they hired.

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Okay. I think the life suddenly became that you are going in shifts. Our entire process was on shift. Morning six o'clock, you need to come in.

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It was initially difficult because in college I can afford to bunk classes. You know, first two classes I will not attend.

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I can't do that in job and that too where I have supposed to punch the card. You know, so if you have to punch the card, you need to be there.

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Right.

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You can't even fake that. Yeah. And again, the freewheeling is not possible. If you are inside the factory and that's a factory environment.

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I cannot afford to roam around because I don't know what kind of risk I will be putting myself in if I have to roam around. I need to walk very carefully. I need to come very carefully.

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So I think in terms of the mind. Okay.

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But at the same time for me, while I know that the rest of the 20, 30 people who joined, they will come to the office, punch card, come out and then possibly talk about what happened in captain.

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I started using the time even for job because that's okay. I need to learn a lot.

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I must thank three people of my first job who enabled me to do that. One was my own mentor in the first job. His name was Mr. P. Paradesi.

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An amazing boiler man. I know he was just an ordinary BSc physics guy. But such a huge boiler that even the boiler manufacturer will consult with him.

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So he made me think that he used to call me Subbu. He said, Subbu, don't get stuck with what you are doing. Learn something different, learning more.

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He will say in Hindi to me, you will get stuck. So you start learning more.

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There are two other people who want to call me Shawnee and the. What were you doing on that? The first few months on the job. What was your, what is it that you were required to do?

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Shift ES, but once you got it, manage. Okay. Yeah. So prepare the report, note down the readings, take the work of the plant, find out if something is working, something not working.

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Coordinate with maintenance guys to come and repair. Okay. You know, entire shift operation of plant running. Okay. Okay. So that was my shift.

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It was eight hours back. 24 by seven plant. So I hope into job for two days, six to two, two days, two to 10 and two days night shift of 10 to six.

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Okay. So you literally got into the grind straight away. You understood what it meant to do a job regularly and follow that, follow a process, a procedure.

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Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. So, yes, yes. And you have to do a lot of testings in the lab there.

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You know, testing. Right. Right. Right. So as you get to know it better, is there as you get to know the job better, you also know if things are going all right, most of the time, you also know if you're not, you know, there isn't so much of work to do.

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It gets into a kind of routine, right.

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Fortunately, the factory life, very particularly in the day shifts, rarely it will get in because you will have a lot to do.

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You will kind of be packed. And that too, I need to interact with senior operators to learn the nuances of the work.

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And just they used to explain to us what's happening, what's not happening. And I had to learn them. In fact, free time would be more in the night shift, because night shift, there's not too much of new activity that we start.

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Night shift is just status quo maintenance. I mean, there could be some nights when you have a crisis and then you get into big deal. Otherwise, it was very relaxed.

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Generally the night shift.

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Okay. Okay.

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So at what point did you think that, you know, apart from Mr. Parthasthi telling you, when did you think that you needed to move on? What was the trigger? Or how did you actually think of, okay, I've learned a certain amount of the same here.

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What happens next?

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So before getting into that, share a few things which actually helped me even thinking of moving out. Otherwise, I might not have thought of moving out.

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Okay. So, okay.

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And I have seen this in many instances, including my own colleagues who have worked and joined along with the same time. They get so narrow as ability to move.

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Okay.

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I will need to have moments horizontal.

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Are you used to work at least one and a half shift. We also had large number of books available to read in the night shift.

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Okay.

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So being a paper manufacturer, we used to get important books for processing. So I will go to the paper yard and pick up best of the books for my reading.

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And I will read them in the night shift. And I think that's where my reading habits started. And I think I continue even now.

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I mean, I think I mentioned this to you that I clock almost 50 books a year.

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I think that learning was very important that diversified my thinking process. And thanks to two other people, Sunil Shawnee and Samba Murti, they included me in some of the budgeting exercise of.

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Okay.

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Now, in the first two years, you getting an exposure to the budgeting exercise gives you a lot of understanding.

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I was fortunate that way. And I also made use of the opportunity available.

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And it was towards the end of my fourth year.

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When I started looking at my career progression, started thinking, what should I be doing? What would I do? How would I start looking at it?

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Somewhere I had the zeal of diversifying my learning knowledge, you know, from one field to another field. So diversifying and possibly that was also based on the thinking that I always had the desire for while doing something.

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And I knew I didn't know what to do because I'm not I don't come a background where I can invest money. And in those days, you didn't have so many VCs who will give you several rounds of money for funding.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So that's where I started thinking of going out and looking for a new job.

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But by then, I think I consolidated my position in such a way in the company that whether it is worker or the top man of the factory, everyone would run after me.

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They want me.

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Right. For anything that comes, let's check with him.

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So I became a point of what is called.

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I just like to, I just like to dig into that a little deeper.

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What exactly do you think made them do that way? Were you available to them? Did you solve their problem? Does you listen to them? Were you the kind of person who offered solutions? What happened there?

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I think it's a combination of things.

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I won't put it as a formula. I won't put it as a formula. So for example, there isn't a formula.

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So for example, for most seniors, for most seniors, it was my knowledge and my ability to structure the thoughts and the case became very important.

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And that's how they started loving me because they knew that this guy, sir.

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Okay. Two, I also never hesitated in doing things that are risky.

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And I think that opened up a lot for people. I even I became a point of attack.

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One example, which many even experienced colleagues started saying that you don't know what kind of risk you have taken. You could have just left it.

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I said, I can't leave it when it is happening in front of my eyes.

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So there was a, we used to handle chlorine 100 tons a day, chlorine gas.

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And it's a very hazardous substance. Even at 3 ppm, you will start coughing like anything.

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There was a cylinder at our gate, which we are still not owner. It has not come inside gate.

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It was truck was lying in the gate and the cylinder started leaking.

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No one knew what to do. I took a decision. I was on the shift. It was a Sunday.

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I took a decision that take the cylinder inside because outside inside the first to manage it.

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And the cylinder inside managed it and curtail the leakage.

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And that was in fact some of the seniors fired me.

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But this engagement had a lot of praise for me.

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Okay. So I think that brought my myself into good books with a lot of senior people in the system.

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Among the employees, I think my relationship building skills were very helpful.

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I became so close to them that I could even know their family members.

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I could know what their children are doing and so on so forth.

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Fortunately, my multiple language also very handy.

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I could speak to them in Hindi.

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So a lot of people became very close to me from that perspective.

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And that led to a huge amount of because workers will then do anything for me.

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In fact, I am proud of my relationship skills in the first job, which I continue to add it later on.

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I tell this to even today to very proudly.

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I remember that was one worker who was a part of the union member.

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That was the only case on employee that I did.

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I never put any complaint on any employee to the HR in my career.

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But that was the only employee on whom I put the complaint and that employee lost the job.

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And imagine that guy was a union member.

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In those days, now unions are much weaker, but in those days, unions used to be very strong.

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00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,000
You can't just get rid of a union member from the company.

212
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:05,000
But I had tremendous support from the workers to help me in that.

213
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:12,000
And that is only because of the relationship that you build both inside the factory as well as outside the factory.

214
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:20,000
So I used to join their family functions, social activities that used to happen.

215
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,000
So I became wanted boy for everything in the colony also.

216
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:31,000
That's how I think it helped.

217
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:38,000
Like you said, very often the job is one aspect of your life.

218
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:43,000
The number of relationships that you cultivate.

219
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:48,000
And this is not as if you were making, I think part of it is due to your nature.

220
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,000
You are outgoing, you take risks.

221
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Some of these things, like you said, if people are not willing to take those risks, then there are other things that they have to discover.

222
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,000
So all risks are not physical or financial.

223
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Some of them are, they could be on various, but trying to figure out what.

224
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:21,000
And I think what worked in your favor is that you are willing to learn, which a lot of, you know, one of the things early on is that if you don't spend time understanding the job, understanding the nuances of what is required.

225
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,000
It just becomes that much more difficult.

226
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:31,000
And like you said, it may not have been the most comfortable of environments, a factory environment is not comfortable in that sense of the word.

227
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:36,000
And the timing is also.

228
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:42,000
I can just give you one hint on the comfort level of the factory.

229
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:49,000
The temperature in the place will be 50 degrees centigrade in the months of April, May, June.

230
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000
Wow.

231
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,000
50 degrees centigrade.

232
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Okay.

233
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,000
You had to do it for eight hours on the truck.

234
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,000
I mean, during the shift, it would be that entire.

235
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Wow. Okay.

236
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,000
Okay.

237
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,000
But do you ever get used to it?

238
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,000
Yes.

239
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,000
I mean, it's something.

240
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,000
You don't have an option.

241
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,000
Okay.

242
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,000
You get used to it.

243
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000
You get used to it.

244
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,000
See, you will not get used to it if you crib about it.

245
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,000
Yeah.

246
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:32,000
If you understand that this is the environment in which one has to work and learn there, you will get used to it and you will find out ways and means of managing it.

247
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,000
Right.

248
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:42,000
It happens only when you decide on what environment you want to work and you don't make best use of the environment that you have.

249
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,000
Yeah.

250
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,000
And I believe in the later.

251
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,000
I think the later.

252
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:53,000
I need to make best use of the environment that I have before I environment.

253
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,000
Right.

254
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,000
Yeah.

255
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,000
I mean, today I can afford to create my environment.

256
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,000
I can decide where I want to work.

257
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,000
I can decide what I want to work.

258
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:12,000
But in the years, I think it is exploiting what is available to you is more important than thinking about what should be made available to me.

259
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,000
Right.

260
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000
Right.

261
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:21,000
And that gives you an experience of what really happens on the shop floor, on the factory shop floor.

262
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,000
So it's not as if these problems are pushed into some background or you're reading them from a book.

263
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,000
You've actually experienced all of them.

264
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,000
No.

265
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,000
Yeah, they're all real life problems.

266
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,000
They're all real life problems.

267
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,000
Exactly.

268
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Yeah.

269
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,000
And for the solutions that you think of will be something that can be fitted into that environment.

270
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,000
It's not a, you know, it's not a point of view.

271
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000
Why don't we do it?

272
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,000
Correct.

273
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000
Correct.

274
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,000
Yeah.

275
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,000
So because they're all different states.

276
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,000
Most of my solutions will not be perfect also.

277
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,000
Correct.

278
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,000
Most of my solutions will be perfect also.

279
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:05,000
Like you said, no one worries about it as long as problem is solved in the floor, it moves.

280
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Yeah.

281
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,000
Okay.

282
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,000
Yeah.

283
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:16,000
So you were saying a combination of things happened for you to move on from you spend two years at ITC,

284
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Badrachalam or more?

285
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,000
Four years.

286
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,000
Four years.

287
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,000
Okay.

288
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,000
Okay.

289
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,000
And then what happened?

290
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:38,000
How did it actually reach lead to the next job that you were looking at?

291
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Badrachalam was 50 kilometer.

292
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:52,000
Okay.

293
00:27:52,000 --> 00:28:00,000
I think there's some lag in the, are you able to hear me or?

294
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Between I lost you, but.

295
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,000
You've come back.

296
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Okay.

297
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,000
Yeah.

298
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,000
I think there was some dip in the, the thing.

299
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,000
So, yeah.

300
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:19,000
So you told me earlier that, you know, there were conditions that finally got you to thinking about making the move.

301
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:25,000
So what were they, what happened?

302
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
So a couple of things.

303
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:35,000
One, I think in my third year of job there, I got married.

304
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,000
And my wife is also that time pursuing CA.

305
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,000
She subsequently became chartered accountant.

306
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Plus for me also to start exploring my learning and deploying them for a better use.

307
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,000
Okay.

308
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,000
Enough experience of paper industry.

309
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,000
Because I didn't want it to get labeled as a paper mat.

310
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,000
I said, I need to move on to get different experience.

311
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,000
And that's where I started looking for it.

312
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:18,000
And fortunately, I think one or two interviews I got the next letter.

313
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,000
Okay.

314
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,000
Was another great company in those days.

315
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Yeah.

316
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Just into flavors.

317
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:34,000
And actually the trigger for internal for me.

318
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,000
Yeah, it's more you me.

319
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,000
I actually had no problem in the job.

320
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,000
In fact, people, I mean, they're surprised that I am quitting the job there.

321
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,000
And I was one person.

322
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,000
I mean, some, I still enjoy that thinking process itself.

323
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,000
Workmen, they gave me four farewells.

324
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,000
Four different farewell party to me by the.

325
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,000
Because they are all in shift.

326
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,000
They can't all of them.

327
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,000
Okay.

328
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Yeah.

329
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000
So imagine just workmen alone gave me four farewells.

330
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,000
Wow.

331
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,000
That's amazing.

332
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,000
So I was, I was someone who was liked by everyone.

333
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,000
So it was literally emotional departure from the first job.

334
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,000
There is no doubt about it.

335
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Even for me, it was emotional because I was so deep rooted in war.

336
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000
In society itself.

337
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000
That it was really emotional.

338
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:34,000
It was necessary for me to move on for widening my own learning.

339
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:42,000
And in fact, I didn't move on with the great, you know, like today people talk about moving

340
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,000
with the percent and then double promotion, triple promotion and all this.

341
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,000
Nothing like that.

342
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,000
I moved horizontally.

343
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,000
Okay.

344
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,000
Okay.

345
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:58,000
But it was a great moment for me because I learned a lot.

346
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:07,000
So what happened at the, the second company that you worked with?

347
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Second company was again very interesting and very extremely learning opportunity for

348
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,000
me.

349
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:23,000
That is the company we're supposed to date our number, you know, number crunching skills,

350
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,000
you know, all those things I got used to.

351
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:32,000
I handling the, I was more like a technical assistant to that.

352
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:38,000
And in those days, general manager was almost number two in the organization.

353
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,000
He's big boss.

354
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,000
I mean, he's the boss kind of thing.

355
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:49,000
That was the first company where I had real exposure of working on computers also.

356
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,000
Till that time in my life, I never touched a computer.

357
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,000
So that is the one I started learning.

358
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,000
And, okay.

359
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:04,000
And I think the learning was very multitude there because I had exposure to reporting,

360
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000
MIS, R and D, okay, and managing the works.

361
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:17,000
So I think it was a very wide ranging exposure and very technical exposure also, including

362
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:23,000
managing the effluents and pollutions because very polluting business it was.

363
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,000
So I had exposure onto that.

364
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,000
I could be there with them for about two and a half years.

365
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,000
Okay.

366
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:35,000
And then I found that this company was not doing good.

367
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:40,000
The company was not doing good and that was a problem for me because when company doesn't

368
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,000
do good investments becomes a problem.

369
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Okay.

370
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:51,000
And you know, you are in a, you know, in a ship that is sinking.

371
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,000
And one of the reason why it was sinking was management itself.

372
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,000
The investors were not very keen on pursuing.

373
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:06,000
Very unfortunate for that company because Highland was a synonym to products that time.

374
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,000
You know, like you call any Varanasi, Ghee as Dalda, any varnish was called Highland.

375
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,000
That's how it was.

376
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,000
Okay.

377
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,000
So it was, I moved on from there.

378
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:27,000
I moved again on a horizontal movement to working with spices and spices company.

379
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:33,400
And I think it was a wonderful shift for me, not only from the place perspective, but also

380
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,000
from the job perspective, wonderful shift it was.

381
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,400
Okay.

382
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,880
So what is happening at the spices company after this?

383
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:54,200
So in fact, spices company, I am actually, I would say I'm indebted to the company as

384
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,200
promoter of the company, which was Sanjay Mariwala at that time.

385
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,200
I mean, they're all part of the Mariwala family.

386
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,200
The famous Mariko group.

387
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,200
Sanjay Mariwala was the MD is still my friend.

388
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,200
Yeah.

389
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,200
No, this is different from parachute.

390
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,200
They are cousins.

391
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,200
Oh, okay.

392
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,200
Okay.

393
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,200
Right.

394
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:23,200
But they were into that company was into oils and this was into spices.

395
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,200
Okay.

396
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,200
Okay.

397
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:26,200
Okay.

398
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,200
Yeah, they are different.

399
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,200
Okay.

400
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:30,200
Right.

401
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:36,200
And even then he is in spice.

402
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,200
Okay.

403
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:44,200
New thing in a book and he will hand over the book to me.

404
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,200
He will say, PGS, you need to implement this.

405
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,200
So that's how I started learning a lot.

406
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,200
And okay.

407
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:59,200
Believe me or not, I never hesitated in taking up a job where I had no knowledge.

408
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,200
Okay.

409
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:07,200
So he assigned me a job of computerizing the entire manufacturing system data.

410
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,200
Okay.

411
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,200
And I had no.

412
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,200
Okay.

413
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,200
That's what happened.

414
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,200
Okay.

415
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:13,200
Yeah.

416
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:14,200
All six sigma.

417
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,200
Exactly.

418
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,200
And I had no.

419
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:17,200
That was after that.

420
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,200
That was after that.

421
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,200
Okay.

422
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,200
Lean six was after this job.

423
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,200
Yeah.

424
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,200
Okay.

425
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:29,200
That was much later, but here it was absolutely no knowledge about computers or software code

426
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,200
etc.

427
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,200
I, I learned all of them from the vendors.

428
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,200
Okay.

429
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:43,200
But you learn the idea is you learn and I went on to build an ERP in early 90s.

430
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,200
Okay.

431
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:50,200
And in a technology which is not known to people nowadays called Fox pro that ERP was running

432
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:56,200
for at least that year survived at least six to seven years.

433
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:57,200
Okay.

434
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,200
In house home building.

435
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:10,200
And then I started thinking of how was I practicing anything other than marketing by then.

436
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:16,000
I said now it's time for me to do something on my own.

437
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,240
And that's when I started thinking where to go and what to go.

438
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:37,200
And I also had the, the fortune of interacting the environment consultant in early 90s who

439
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,200
was X Sanmar person.

440
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,200
Okay.

441
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:47,200
A very fatherly figure.

442
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,200
And I started my own consulting.

443
00:36:52,200 --> 00:37:00,200
And it is after that I got exposed to six sigma and all other things.

444
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:09,000
So I think that was and my exposure to even quality management system was in last company

445
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:16,000
where I work, which was the can called flavors where we had consultants coming from UK to

446
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:22,160
work on it because in early 90s, you didn't have so many people in India who had expertise

447
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,280
in those systems.

448
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:29,720
So we had people coming from UK and so that gave me an exposure to interact with Westerners,

449
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:35,720
Western culture, you know, the customers outside India.

450
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:39,720
I think a great experience.

451
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,720
No doubt.

452
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:48,280
So what comes through is that, you know, it's that you don't starting from the first job

453
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,920
that you had.

454
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:56,160
Very often it means that you can either fit into a role or you can keep expanding the boundaries

455
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,160
of your own role.

456
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,000
And the companies that you work in have no problem with you expanding the boundaries

457
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,960
and doing more.

458
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,520
In most cases, the problem is when people then decide that this is what I'm good at

459
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,800
and this is all I'll do.

460
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,440
Then there, you know, their entire worldview shrinks.

461
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:23,720
Whereas like you said, if it's whether it's exactly managing chlorine, chlorine canister

462
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:31,720
or a cylinder that was leaking or having to put in place a computerized system to manage

463
00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:33,880
the process.

464
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,360
You start off in most cases without really understanding what are the contours of what

465
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,040
you need to do and then you understand it as you go along.

466
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:51,640
So you are going through a phase where you don't understand exactly.

467
00:38:51,640 --> 00:39:02,280
And I think at times people have this thing that I understand well that I'm going to

468
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,280
learn.

469
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,280
Yeah.

470
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:09,400
Or they say I'm good at this, I'm not good at this.

471
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,680
So they make these categorizations and they build it within themselves to say that or

472
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,160
it is within comfort zones.

473
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,360
I like doing this.

474
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,840
I don't like doing this.

475
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:27,720
In which case, so it's okay to categorize.

476
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:33,720
But when it is okay to categorize, what is not okay is to start creating a box around

477
00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:34,720
it.

478
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:35,720
Okay.

479
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:41,360
So it's good to know that what I don't know, but I should not become a box around it.

480
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,240
And then I should learn that part of it.

481
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:50,360
And on the spices business, I must add on to you saying that when I joined the company,

482
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,480
company was facing a high court case on pollution.

483
00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:01,600
And in one and a half years, I made the company win state award on environment.

484
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:02,600
Wow.

485
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:03,600
Okay.

486
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:04,600
Okay.

487
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:05,600
Yeah.

488
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,520
And so that is how you can do it.

489
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,520
Yeah.

490
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:17,760
No, I think right from the time we started interacting, which is your threads of excellence

491
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:24,720
and you know, that is a wonderful program that you organize to ensure that excellence

492
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:26,240
was a lot of process.

493
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:27,240
Yeah.

494
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:29,240
Not just an event.

495
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:30,240
Yeah.

496
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,240
That's true.

497
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:34,040
And the fact that you move towards that is something that.

498
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,640
So that's the thing.

499
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:45,680
At that time, were you as or has physical spirituality always been a part of your mix right from

500
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,640
your early days?

501
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:56,880
Or is it something that you have grown to, you know, do more of as you grow, got older.

502
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,240
For example, you do a whole lot of pooja at home.

503
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:01,880
You go to, you know, huh?

504
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:02,880
Temples.

505
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,360
In fact, I have a temple at home itself.

506
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:08,800
Yes.

507
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,320
I think it was there in some form or other right from the beginning for me.

508
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,400
Some form or other, it was there right from the beginning.

509
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:22,760
So the only thing is that it used to be little, what is called in a different type, different

510
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:31,120
way, the intent of those changed with time.

511
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:32,920
But it was there from the beginning.

512
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:38,280
I think my cultivated an interest towards that.

513
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,280
Yes.

514
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:44,600
In the last four or five years, the interest has increased and possibly it's also linked

515
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:50,080
to my age and career stage where I am.

516
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,200
But otherwise the interest was there right from the beginning.

517
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,200
Right from the beginning.

518
00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:01,800
Even by school days itself, I used to be involved in various poojas and things like that.

519
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,440
Okay.

520
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:13,120
So when you see the spiritual and the business, you've managed to go along parallel tracks

521
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,600
and keep them without one really, you know, getting in the way of the other.

522
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:23,240
Because ultimately it's a question of most people look at success or whatever it is based

523
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:29,880
on material, you know, gains that they make.

524
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:36,440
But in your case, it's as much of a spiritual gain as it is about knowledge of the environment

525
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:37,600
in which you work in.

526
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:46,000
Plus you're fully cloned into the way technology adaptations have, you know, have made life

527
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,960
very different for companies today.

528
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:54,840
So you start with an environment where you say it is plus 50 degrees Celsius, you then

529
00:42:54,840 --> 00:43:00,720
move into a place where you have to then change the entire, you know, computerization of the

530
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:01,720
entire thing.

531
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:09,040
Then you work in spices and then you get into quality control and then you figure out, okay,

532
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,840
how do I implement Six Sigma practices?

533
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:17,320
All the while you're taking, there are certain base things which have always been there,

534
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,440
your ability to get along with people, your ability to sort of understand the environment

535
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:29,560
in which you function and how to enrich the aptitude and the attitude of people working

536
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:30,920
with you.

537
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,480
But how do you balance this out?

538
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:33,480
What do you think?

539
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,080
Because work-life balance has made a big thing off today.

540
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,440
But I don't think you've had much of a problem achieving it.

541
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:41,440
Yeah.

542
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:45,280
So the problem is again goes into that boxing.

543
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,280
Most people rework and life has two different things.

544
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,920
That's why they have challenged to balance.

545
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,920
I don't consider work and life are two different things.

546
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:57,920
Okay.

547
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,880
Part is part of my life.

548
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,680
So when something is part of you, you don't need to balance it.

549
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:15,720
But having said that, one of the reasons why it's difficult to do is also because there

550
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:18,240
are two, three things which happens.

551
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,800
One, your ability to give up is important.

552
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,640
At some point in time, you should be able to give up.

553
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:26,640
I don't do this.

554
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,560
That is somebody else who can do it.

555
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,400
I need to give up.

556
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,960
And when I say give up, I really mean give up.

557
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:35,960
Okay.

558
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:42,920
And this is not easy for many people because for give up, people are taking risk.

559
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:48,920
And you give up, you take risk and you need to build that appetite at risk.

560
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,800
Otherwise you won't be able to continue to do that.

561
00:44:52,800 --> 00:45:01,320
Second, I think if you are very clear in terms of how you will manage if something goes wrong

562
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:06,720
and you have that confidence, I think you won't worry about it.

563
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:14,520
Today, the challenge which you mentioned it in some time back also is that we are so narrowed

564
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,720
in our thinking process, so narrowed in our domain area and things like that.

565
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:23,320
I don't even want to understand what is next.

566
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,920
So alternate is missing.

567
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,240
What would I do next?

568
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:32,600
You ask most managers what you want to do next.

569
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:38,720
People have no clue about it because you are stuck and your next is not beyond the titles

570
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:40,040
that you can think of.

571
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,800
Whereas the next has to come based on the knowledge that you want to take.

572
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,360
So I think that's very important for me after.

573
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:50,360
Yeah.

574
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,360
Yeah.

575
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,720
So even today for me as I get into the stage where I am now operating these companies and

576
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:00,680
working here, I have picked up to learn the executive coaching.

577
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,680
Okay.

578
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:08,920
Because to do guide people, I need to have a better way of guiding them.

579
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,680
So I got into executive coaching, I'm still going through the process.

580
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:14,680
Okay.

581
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:20,680
So and that I think is expansion which is important for people and expansion has to

582
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,280
be based on the knowledge, not just based on the money and the titles and things like

583
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,280
that.

584
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:27,280
Right.

585
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,240
I'm not saying title and money are not important.

586
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:35,520
They are extremely important, but not at the cost of the knowledge.

587
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:36,520
Right.

588
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:37,520
Right.

589
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,840
That balance is another set of things which and I think that's the whole point.

590
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:48,960
I think that's a very important point that if the objective is the next title, you're

591
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:55,000
actually constraining yourself because then you're only looking at saying, how can I get

592
00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:00,120
that attached to my name or my designation or whatever it is.

593
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:05,840
And it's almost been talking for almost 15 minutes.

594
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:11,880
So one of the things that I'd like to end, wrap this up on is the transition.

595
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:17,760
That is you start in a job with the skills that you have, you build on those skills.

596
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:24,240
A lot of those skills you do, you learn and you master them over time.

597
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:29,120
And then you move hopefully into a position where you're commanding a team out of which

598
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,080
you have got to get work done.

599
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:38,000
So you shift from being doing the work yourself to providing the guidance and the mentorship

600
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,500
necessary.

601
00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:46,800
So for you, what has this process been?

602
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,320
So I will.

603
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:55,520
So I think if I look at my drivers from an employment to running my own business consulting

604
00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:01,320
and then again, employment, I don't know what I will do after a year or two.

605
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:07,000
But the point is, I don't see this, actually, I don't even see this as transition.

606
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,720
A lot of people see this as a transition.

607
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:14,160
I don't even see this as a transition because what am I doing?

608
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,800
What am I doing in every job?

609
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:17,800
What am I doing?

610
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:23,000
Imagine the environment in which I have been put in and the environment include the people

611
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,600
there, environment include the business there.

612
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:33,400
And end of the day, I am still very fond of the famous book by Goldrat Nyalu Gold.

613
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,680
What is the objective of any business?

614
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,120
To make money, to make more money.

615
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:46,680
And as long as that clarity is there, it doesn't matter whether you're selling an IT

616
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:52,960
software, the people are different, the skillset are different, you still need to manage them.

617
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:58,280
And a relationship with people is what is more important, whether he's shift operator

618
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,960
or a software coder.

619
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:08,120
So I think I never experienced the challenges of transition.

620
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:14,240
I did experience challenges of learning curve because some environment it takes longer to

621
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:17,040
learn, takes faster to learn.

622
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:22,760
So there could be challenge of speed of learning curve, but not a challenge of what is called

623
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,920
transitioning into one role to the role.

624
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,680
And all of us to the, isn't it?

625
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:32,960
From core transition to the environment, then you transition from under the parents to your

626
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:39,800
wife or spouses, then you decision as mother or father, then you transition and father.

627
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,480
I mean, all these are transitions in life.

628
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:43,480
Yes.

629
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,120
So why should they be any different in the job?

630
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:47,680
Because you're doing it instinctively.

631
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,360
Yes, you make mistakes, but you learn and then you pick up.

632
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,000
You learn how to do things.

633
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,840
And it's not as if you stopped making mistakes.

634
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,880
The problem is when you start learning from them.

635
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:07,240
So I will tell you a more important thing there.

636
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:12,920
More important thing is when you just to correct one thing there, more important thing, your

637
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,720
willingness to do mistake is more important.

638
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:16,720
Yes.

639
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:21,560
The problem with me is that I'm afraid of making mistakes.

640
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,560
All I'm saying is that don't be afraid of making mistakes.

641
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:25,560
Yes.

642
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:26,560
Yes.

643
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:27,560
You learn.

644
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,960
No, that is so true because unless you make a mistake, you're not going to find another

645
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:32,960
way forward.

646
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:38,520
Yes, that particular thing may be a mistake, but it really doesn't.

647
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:44,560
But in today's world, it's almost as if, you know, its success is seen as the only, what

648
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:45,560
you say, yardstick.

649
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,240
Whereas the success is intermittent.

650
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:50,560
Failure is the default state.

651
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,560
It's the way that happens.

652
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:57,880
Yes, you will keep making.

653
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,880
You know, there isn't a single way.

654
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,560
So I have no process as a yardstick.

655
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:03,560
Yeah.

656
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:04,560
Okay.

657
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:09,560
But we do have a problem with the success as a yardstick.

658
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:10,560
Okay.

659
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,560
I find my success based on what Venu believes is success.

660
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:15,560
Right.

661
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,440
I need to find my success for myself.

662
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,640
It is not dependent on others.

663
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:21,640
Very true.

664
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:22,640
Very true.

665
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:28,120
Today, unfortunately, we find our successes based on others.

666
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:29,440
Yes.

667
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,040
But for most people that becomes a point, right?

668
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:34,160
It is comparison.

669
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:39,320
It is about success is always measured in material terms.

670
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,520
It is measured in designation terms.

671
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,360
It is, you know, so it becomes, for some people, it becomes impossible.

672
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:52,520
So that's what I wonder how do you reconcile the spiritual and the material?

673
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:59,640
Because you're involved in, you are, you lose yourself in that world when you are on a spiritual

674
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:00,640
journey.

675
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:07,240
Like you said, even recently, you've gone to Shabri Mullah so many times that you don't

676
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:09,680
remember the number of years that you've done it.

677
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:14,080
One is that you are able to do it because you launch into it.

678
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:22,600
So it's almost as a physically and mentally, you're still looking at testing the borders

679
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:25,680
or the limits of what you do.

680
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:33,400
Is that one of the things which, you know, that you continue to expand on that?

681
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:38,400
I think there are two things which is important Venu in this.

682
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:49,000
Where people, and I have seen you because many times people don't, they try to copy

683
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,000
others.

684
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:57,400
Don't, I need to know what I, I need to know what I like.

685
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:58,400
Okay.

686
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:03,640
And I don't, then I need to start thinking what is my success.

687
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,840
I should stop comparing my colleagues.

688
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,200
I should stop comparing my peers.

689
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,240
I should stop comparing my, you know, families, friends.

690
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:17,720
When each one is of them, I mean, I can keep cribbing about that Ambani is making this

691
00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:21,960
so much of money in the world, but I am not Ambani.

692
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:27,000
I am Subramanian and Ambani is not Subramanian.

693
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:35,400
So I think we need to understand myself and then try to structure my success accordingly.

694
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,840
Then I would be happy and successful both.

695
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,360
Okay.

696
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:48,320
So I think somewhere there, there is that whole, you have understood for yourself what

697
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:52,000
that, which is where I wonder, you know this.

698
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,240
So if you look at a career, you know, the entire definition of how a career pans out,

699
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:03,880
then would you break it up into stages or would you say that the best way to do it is

700
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:16,200
to understand the environment and then respond and learn in order to move to the next stage.

701
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,960
So first of all, for me, career is not stages.

702
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:20,960
It's a continuum.

703
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:21,960
Okay.

704
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,080
It's a continuum.

705
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,440
So it's not that stepping stones.

706
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,480
It's not a stepping ladder.

707
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,680
It's a smooth curve that grows.

708
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:32,680
Right.

709
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:33,680
Okay.

710
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:40,600
The second thing important from career perspective is I need to understand what would make me

711
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:47,800
happy, what would make me satisfied and what to do towards that.

712
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,560
It's not just the environment.

713
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,760
It is just not me.

714
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:57,760
It is also what is the interaction between me and the environment.

715
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:58,760
Okay.

716
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:05,240
Okay, I can have, I can be in great environment, but if I'm not interacting with environment,

717
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:07,240
my life will be hell.

718
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:08,240
Right.

719
00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:09,240
Right.

720
00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:20,760
And I can be in 50 centigrade, but I have to, I think it's just the environment, but

721
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:26,640
it is also me and the interaction between me and the environment.

722
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:27,640
Okay.

723
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:28,640
Okay.

724
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:29,640
Wonderful.

725
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:34,400
Stop complaining about it.

726
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,640
Stop complaining about environment.

727
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:37,640
Great.

728
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:43,200
On that note, then, Pijas, thank you for your time.

729
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,760
I, you know, these are things that we've not covered.

730
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:55,880
We normally tend to stick to the books we've read, the things that we, so this is a wonderful

731
00:55:55,880 --> 00:56:01,400
means of knowing how you got to where you are today, because I think there are a lot

732
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:06,960
of these, and like you said, success, everything stages a career as a continuum.

733
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:12,800
And by defining and pushing the levels of your interest and finding out what that is,

734
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:18,000
is ultimately what the, so whether it's the first job or the job that you're in right

735
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,040
now, there are certain things that have not changed at all.

736
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:26,040
And there are certain things which you continue to discover.

737
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:27,040
Okay.

738
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:28,040
Correct.

739
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:36,440
So thank you very much for making it to the, for this opportunity also.

740
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:53,480
My pleasure, Pijas, and.