It sounds like they are saying, how can we make
this as hard as possible so we can do away with
SNAP and other food assistance programs without
actually saying we're going to do away with SNAP
and other food assistance programs. Welcome everyone.
Welcome back to another episode of the Bold and
the Brave, a parent leader podcast. Thank you
all for joining us, whether you're watching us
on YouTube or listening to us in your car, in
your office. Welcome back after a brief summer
break. We took a brief but well -deserved break,
but we're back at it again. We have a great episode
for you. For those that don't know who I am,
my name is Carlos Maldonado. I lead the communications
team here with the National Parent Leadership
Institute. I'm usually behind the camera recording
the podcast and producing the podcast, but I'm
back again for another episode. And I am joined
by my friend, my coworker, my compadre, Hobson
McCain, also with the NPLI team. Hobson, how's
it going? It's going well, Carlos, and we're
super happy that you're back on the podcast.
We're really excited for today's episode. And
just for everybody who doesn't know, I am Hobson
McCain. I'm an operations and special initiative
associate with the National Parent Leadership
Institute. We are really, really excited today
to have a conversation with... some partners,
some consultants, some parent leaders who are
doing a lot of great work in the community. We're
joined by Carolyn Vega from Share Our Strength,
Anthony Bonner from Memphis, and Zee from Hawaii.
Welcome to you all. We are very, very excited
to have you here. Like I said, we have a great
conversation, so let's just jump right into it.
Before we go into our conversation with our guests,
we just wanted to set the tone for the episode
and just tell folks a little bit of what we're
going to be talking about today. So today's podcast
episode, we're going to be talking about SNAP
and other food assistance programs. You know,
what's happening in the most recent budget bill
that passed Congress, what's happening in our
states, and what is needed and what folks can
do at the local level for those that are worried
around this issue. Yeah. So like Hobson said,
we have three guests, three wonderful guests.
And so we're going to get started with Carolyn
from Share Our Strength, our wonderful partner
organization. Carolyn, we're going to ask you
if you can explain a little bit about what SNAP
and these other food assistance programs are
for our audience. There are actually 16 federal
food assistance programs. Congress sets the general
structure for these programs and provides most
of the funding and then states implement them.
These programs do things like support meals in
schools and child care centers. They help food
banks get food to distribute, or they help pregnant
women and new parents get formula and food. SNAP,
or the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program,
is our nation's largest food assistance program
with the broadest eligibility. SNAP offers eligible
households money to buy food at grocery stores
and other approved retailers. Usually that money
comes on a debit -like EBT card. Yeah, thanks,
Carolyn, so much for sharing that. It sounds
like these assistance programs are really important
for families and communities around the country.
And it makes me wonder just how did each of you
get started in snapping food assistance program
education and advocacy? I wonder if we start
off with Z. I appreciate that. Thank you so much,
Hobson and Carlos. I'm really grateful to be
here. Thanks so much for asking me to come share
my experience. I grew up in. Southern California,
and that's where I first encountered the SNAP
program. Back in the day, it was called Food
Stamps. I since have moved to Hawaii. I've been
here for 10 years. I remember back being 22,
23 years old and needing some assistance with
food and substance use is a part of my past.
And at that particular time, I was in a treatment
facility, which is fantastic, helped to save
my life. And they really introduced me to SNAP.
Went down to the SNAP office in Southern California
and walked out with a bunch of stamps. You know,
it was kind of, traumatic -ish experience, right?
Because I had no idea what anything looked like.
And at that point, I was able to feed myself.
And I knew about Snap from that. It was a couple
of decades later when I needed it again for my
family, right? Myself, my child, my child's dad,
right? We were all living together and things
got hard. My story, not unique. Right. But definitely
has some pieces. We all have different stories.
And dad has some disability issues, some diagnoses
and needed some caregiving. And so we were a
one income household at the time. I also had
a newborn and we just needed some extra help.
And I knew that SNAP existed. And so living here
in Hawaii, I was able to reach out. I was able
to help to take care of the family. The education
and advocacy piece really came about from realizing
the stigma attached. to SNAP and what that looks
like, which is really just a poverty thing. Like
the more I learned about it, the classism and
what all that looks like. And then it really
just became, why are we not going out of our
way to make this easier for people who are hungry,
right? And that really began my journey at the
state legislature and then doing some work with
some national associations and partners around
sharing lived experience. Because there's always
a huge stigma around lived experience, right?
The whole like, oh, we're the children. who step
in and the grownups say, come tell us your problems.
And then the grownups close the door and say,
let's fix it. And so really when the opportunity
presented itself a couple of years ago to be
like, no, no, not a child, an adult who deserves
a seat at the table. Let's have the conversation
from that perspective. That's really what that
looked like. And I look forward to being able
to share a little bit later, you know, with more
of the questions. Thanks so much. Yeah, no, I
appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for sharing
your story. And I wonder if we can go to Anthony
in terms of just how did you get started in SNAP
and Food Assistance Program education and advocacy?
Yes. I think mine kind of mirrors the same. Grew
up on the system back when it was food stamps.
Then, you know, two of my children's mothers,
they was on food stamps when they had SNAP here
in Tennessee. Just through that, just seeing
how that was and my income as a barber never
really allocated for me to be able to get it,
even though there were plenty of times throughout
my adult life that I could have used it for myself.
It wasn't until three years ago when my son,
my youngest son, he's now 13, where he came to
move in with me, where I was then myself able
to qualify for the SNAP benefit program. And
for me, it's been a real help, real boost. And
just with him coming to live with me, I was kind
of really starting to get into the swing and
just starting to advocate. First was just going
through looking for my own resources and then
just seeing a need, being a full -time single
father. that the need to really share my story.
And that's what led me into joining PLTI. And
then eventually the National SNAP Parent Council
with, you know, with Share Our Strengths. And,
you know, that's what led me all the way here
today. Yeah, no, that's great. Thank you for
sharing your story. Sounds like there was some
shared experience around accessibility issues
and need being the thing that kind of made you
aware of the program as a whole. Carolyn, I wonder
if I can, Throw that question back at you. Sure.
My story is a little bit different. I started
off in college studying nutrition, thinking that
maybe I was going to do research or maybe go
to med school and be a doctor. But I had a great
professor who challenged me once when I was kind
of telling him what my future plans were to say,
like, I think we all know we should be eating
broccoli. Like, I don't think we need another
research study to tell us that. But we really
need to know why more people aren't eating broccoli
or aren't able to eat broccoli. So I guess that
was the question that radicalized me and decided,
you know, it into doing more nutrition policy.
And so we started off working in child nutrition
program administration at the state level and
then moved over to the nonprofit side and working
on policy. So again, started more on child nutrition
programs and have grown to learn more about SNAP.
um i'm always humbled to work with amazing people
like z and anthony and try never to be one of
the adults in the room um pushing people out
and instead learning from your experience which
is so valuable and what it's really all about
yeah 100 and i think you know folks like you
are the reason that some of these changes are
being made in communities so we're definitely
appreciative to have you here And we talked a
lot, you know, we have Z from Hawaii, we have
Anthony from Memphis, and we know that these
SNAP and food assistance programs are affecting,
assisting people around the country. And so I
wonder, you know, about the differences in terms
of like what the work looks like in Memphis,
what the work looks like in Hawaii. And so, Anthony,
I think I'm going to throw this back at you,
but what does the work look like right now in
Memphis? What are some of the things that you're
doing right now in Memphis in terms of food advocacy?
So first off, last summer, The summer EBT program
was stripped from Shelby County. It was stripped
from Shelby County and Davidson County and about
two other counties. The governor decided they
wanted to look at... ways they can save money,
so they cut back on removing it from certain
counties. Just so happens they took it from the
two largest counties in the state of Tennessee,
which is Shelby County and Davidson County. Shelby
County is what controls the Memphis metropolitan
area. Davidson County is what controls the Nashville
metropolitan area. So just really just that,
I had to kind of get the word out because it
wasn't known. That wasn't even known. People
just kind of found out throughout the summers.
of what was going on and happening. So just kind
of really letting people know, educate about
that. I worked with a couple of other organizations
that, you know, do food drives throughout the
summer and throughout the year. So that's just
one aspect of what. You're kind of dealing with
the SNAP benefit program. As far as that, it's
a necessity in this city for the most part. Memphis
is the largest Black metropolitan area. I mean,
we are a city in the country. We surpassed Detroit
last year with the highest population of African
Americans within a city's population. And it
also has one of the highest level of poverty.
in the nation so that means a great deal of the
citizens of this city depend on that benefits
just to be able to provide the family um you
have you're looking at different cultures large
ethnic cultures like Indian and different African
cultures that are out here. You know, people
that are all, you know, very, you know, needing
it as well, too. So I look at when I look at
the staff benefit program here in this city,
I look at it as a real necessary crutch to help
people not just feed their families, but to be
able to have a little bit more to where they
can strive. for what they want to be able to
put themselves in more successful position yeah
no sorry i mean one it sounds like um you know
very sorry to hear that the benefits are leaving
in that area or being reduced in that area but
it sounds like the community is doing its best
to try to come together and provide alternative
means in terms of like those food banks that
you were talking about and even just getting
the word out and letting folks know that the
change is there so definitely some great work
coming out of memphis from you anthony i'm very
appreciative of what you're doing and and um
you know like anthony said memphis is a very
urban community very metropolized and i know
z you come from a little bit of a different background
what is the work looking like in Hawaii right
now? I really appreciate the question. Thanks,
Hobson. I was listening to you, Anthony, and
talking about the city and I'm sitting here,
you know, on my one acre of land in the southernmost
part of the United States where it's mostly lava
rock and a 45 minute to an hour drive to the
nearest real kind supermarket, right? And all
of those things. And I'm like, wow, the city,
right? It's been a long time since I've, uh,
Lived in a city. And so really here in Hawaii,
I mean, I'm sure most of the listeners know,
but Hawaii, you have all separate islands, right?
And so a lot of people hear about Hawaii and
what they do is they think Oahu, whether they've
ever heard of Oahu or not. Oahu is Honolulu.
That's Waikiki. That's where the tourists come,
right? The vacationing. They have a bunch of
food and a bunch of highways and a bunch of traffic,
right? That's not the island that I live on,
right? I live on Hawaii Island and Hawaii Island
is the largest geographically. You can geographically
fit all of the other islands into here and there's
less than 300 ,000 people. So really what it
looks like here, the whole island is pretty much
a rural area, right? You have the two smaller
cities, right? One on each side of the island,
but it's different here. I would say in my small
community, right, with my neighbors and what
it looks like, we do have the two supermarkets,
right? But if I'm going in to buy a can of soup,
the price is at least one and a half times to
three times higher than it is if I drive for
45 minutes and that's just to the other supermarket.
So we live in a food desert, right? That's what
things look like here. And so when talking about...
what we're doing for snap and what we're doing
for, you know, here in the state of Hawaii, I
would say it's so different because the needs,
even on varying sides of the Island, right. Are
so great. You could literally get on an airplane
in Kona and arrive in Honolulu before I could
drive from where I live over to Hilo, where my
kid goes to college. Right. So it's like, things
are so. from the transportation piece, from all
of it. And so really, I'm giving that kind of
background before I'm answering the question,
because you really have to understand the rural
nature of where it is that we live here. And
so there are bills that come up around SNAP all
the time, right? We're trying to expand the program.
Hawaii actually, awesome, back in February of
this year, 2025, they expanded the BBC program,
which basically for SNAP means the broad -based.
The C, I always forget what it stands for. Can
you help me out there, Carolyn? Fraud -based
categorical eligibility. Categorical, because
that's a word we should all know, right? So they
expanded the BBC program, which really had always
been, as long as you were 100 % of the federal
poverty level. The BBC was you could be 200 percent
in your gross income and 100 percent in your
net income. Hawaii, February of 2025, they did
away with the net income testing. So as long
as your gross income was under 200 percent. And
I got to tell you, 50 ,000 more individuals in
the state of Hawaii were able to qualify for
SNAP as a result. And so we have our state legislators
that are decent, right, that understand what
some of these things are and that are trying
to make the changes around it. as far as in my
community i would love to tell you that we feel
the difference but it's still six you know it's
eleven dollars for a loaf of bread right i mean
that's what things look like here in hawaii even
not in the rural area so we're advocating we're
doing work more food banks are opening up more
ministry type things from some of you know the
religious and spiritual organizations and then
you have non -profits around what we call the
aina the aina is uh the land it's sacred here,
right? In Hawaii for the indigenous people, Kanaka
Maoli, like the aina is, it's incredibly sacred.
So you have a lot more people. This may not be
known, right? For SNAP benefits, you can use
your SNAP benefits to buy seeds for fruit bearing
and for vegetables. You're allowed to use your
SNAP for that. So there's definitely the nonprofit
organizations that are teaching people to do
that here. There's a lot of work going on. The
community is fantastic trying to take care of
each other with a lot of these issues. Of course,
I don't think the community should have to, but
that's, you know, neither here nor there. So
thanks. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. And then,
you know, sometimes when our legislators, our
policies fall short, the community is all that
we have to lean on. So it's great to hear that
both in Hawaii and in Memphis, you know, the
community is kind of filling some of those gaps.
Of course, we're always going to advocate for
the folks who are supposed to fill the gaps.
I think I'm passing it off to Carlos for this
next piece and then keep it going. Yeah. Thank
you, Hobson. Thank you, Anthony and Zee. Zee,
if we could stay with you for a little bit. We
know through previous work that you have done
with the MPLI that you have a background and
expertise in things like analyzing and advocating
for and building inclusion in systems. Being
that SNAP is this thing that is helping a lot
of people, is there anything that you're bringing
in about inclusion as it relates to SNAP and
nutritional benefits? I really appreciate the
question, Carlos. And I also really like that
you said out loud for the listeners that you've
worked with me before, only because it means
that what I'm about to say won't be surprising.
Inclusion is a word that I don't hate as opposed
to some other words that I dislike. But when
you think about the word inclusion, it almost
it takes inclusion is something that people in
power decide that they want to do for those that
are not in power. Right. I'm a decision maker.
And so I am choosing to include those who are
not decision makers to get their input. That
is what inclusion is about. We typically talk
about inclusion with regards to the disability
community, right? Is there access? Is there inclusion
around? But again, it basically, the premise
of inclusion is that there's no power present,
right? You have to wait to be included by those
who have the power. So I'm saying that out loud
because that's what I do and I say things out
loud. There is some inclusion that's going on
across the country in some of the snap systems
systemically here in Hawaii. But I'm also going
to say out loud on the record that I don't want
inclusion. I want power sharing, right? Like,
it's like when we talk about equality and equity,
right? Equality is great, but really I want equity.
And if we're really talking honesty, I want justice,
right? So I feel like inclusion is a step to
power sharing, but what I want is power sharing.
So, yes, here in the state of, you know, Hawaii,
they are working a little bit on creating some
councils at some of the nonprofit at the state
level, bringing people with lived experience
in. It's not as great as I would like it to be.
It's not as consistent as I would like it to
be at any level. I'm going to share for just
a quick minute, like, you know, a story that
I had, you know, being a SNAP recipient, I would
call. the phone line, right? Because you're calling
and you're trying to get a hold of someone because
I'm online and it's not working. And so I'm sitting
on hold and we're talking average time of two
and a half hours, you know, sitting on hold.
And one of the things to Hawaii's credit, I promise
you I'll get to it in about three seconds at
the end of the story, but you would call and
every three minutes, and I'm not joking, like
exaggerating when I say every three minutes,
but every three minutes, a recording would come
on that would say, if you'd like to leave a voicemail,
press one. If you'd like to receive a call back,
press two. And if you'd like to remain on hold,
press three. If you did not hit the number three,
you were disconnected. So every three minutes
I have to hit the number three. Do you know what
that means? That means that I can't wash the
dishes because now my hands are wet and I can't,
my phone won't identify my finger hitting the
button three, like the number three, right? This
is what it looked like. And I reached out to
the deputy director. I reached out to the director.
I reached out to the legislator. I testified
on bills at the state legislature. It took 17
months. And they changed it to a 15 -minute rotation
as opposed to three, right? So, yay, right? When
we talk about the policy changes that we want,
and SNAP, of course, want more broad -based eligibility,
want more people to be able to afford food. But
what we also want is people to be able to retain
the benefits that they have. To not be so forced.
What happens when you work? In what universe,
what job can I sit on hold for two and a half
hours, hitting the number three every three minutes
and work? And we are right now a country that
does not guarantee paid family leave. So everything
intersects with each other. So again, to Hawaii's
credit, they hear it, they make changes, things
work painfully slowly, which I totally understand.
But I think when it comes to the inclusion piece
and some of the work that I'm trying to do in
the systems, both here at the state level and
at the national level, is really just outlouding
the stuff that people don't want to say, right?
For me, that's the inclusion. And every time
I use the verbiage out loud, there's someone
who says, oh, you mean elevate. No, no, I do
not mean elevate. Things that are on the table
get elevated. Outlouding is about digging out
the stuff from the moldy foundation of the earth,
washing it off so that it's palatable to put
on the table so that other people can then elevate
it. Right. So when I'm speaking anywhere at the
national level to electeds, to nonprofits, you
know, again, at the national level or other states,
I talk about the lived experience piece all the
time because lived experience is not just lived
experience with Snap. I have lived experience
as a disabled person. I have lived experience
as a caregiver for disabled people. I have lived
experience with poverty, lived experience with
Snap, lived experience with with being on Quest,
which is our version of. Medicaid. I also have
lived experience as a therapist, right? Lived
experience as a drug addict and an alcoholic,
being homeless under a bridge and now turning
it around and being able to work with others.
So there's such a stigma attached to the lived
experience, the verbiage, when we talk about
it, that I think that one of the ways that I'm
trying to breed inclusion for the goal of power
sharing, but trying at the very least for inclusion.
is really just trying to help whoever I'm talking
to realize that they have lived experience as
well. That it's not a bad word. You can be a
professional and have lived experience. You can
have initials after your name and have lived
experience. And I just want everyone to talk
about their own lived experience whenever given
a mic. Because I think that's how we continue
to make changes within the systems around inclusion.
Because power sharing is the goal. And so that's
what I do in the Snap world. When I'm invited
as a professional, I make it a point to talk
about my disability and my lived experience with
poverty and SNAP with a microphone everywhere,
every chance I can. So I hope that that kind
of answered your question there, Carlos. It did.
Thank you. And I love everything you just said.
Power sharing is the goal. If we walk with nothing
else out of this conversation. That's something
that I think we can all take with us. Power sharing
is the goal above inclusion. Inclusion is all
well and good, right? But power sharing is the
goal. Anthony, you're coming at this from a different
background, similar background, but a little
different in that you are a dad providing for
your children. Is there anything you want to
share around that as a dad? How has engaging
in this been for you as a father? Man, first
of all, yo, Z, just like, man, what you was just
saying about inclusion, just, hey, man. Man,
you said a lot there. But, you know, and it's
motivated me because I'm not just coming at it.
I don't come into this work just as a father,
a single father. But I'm a black man. I'm an
entrepreneur. I just had a situation where I
needed real assistance. And as an entrepreneur,
I couldn't get the assistance that people have
because they like your income is up and down
and it could be good. Yeah, you may be bad today,
but tomorrow. And it's like, this is the reason
why, you know, and then you bring in like a child,
you know, and I just had, I have, I'm a father
of one single in my child, but I have. for others
so that's you know and they don't and they don't
live with me so it's i'm having to you know help
provide for multiple households well still trying
to make sure that my household and you know before
before my child goes in you know came in to live
with me it was just me trying to provide for
my household and that and i think like that's
the part where i kind of really touch base on
it's like you know it's i can represent for the
single person out here that doesn't have kids
that is out here trying to make a way for themselves
and you just look at like recent i just got an
email you know this past week my benefits are
getting you know getting you know up to um forty
dollars from what it is and you know and the
fact that i have a child i don't have to qualify
for those i don't qualify for having to abide
by those work requirements that the reconciliation
bill just added on. And it just made me think
about, you know, it's like, yeah, I'm lucky in
a sense, but like, what if I didn't? So now it's
like, I'll have to be reporting it. And, you
know, at this point in age, I've been a barber
for, I've been in my craft for 16 years. You
know, I don't always work. I may not work 20,
30 hours a week, you know, and I just, that sucks.
That sucks. There's so many people out here that,
that. that need the assistance and it just seems
like they just make it make it hard or there's
this stigma that's placed on you that oh you're
not working hard enough or you're not trying
hard enough or you know it is you're lazy you
know you're just using up and it's like they're
so not true most of people like and it's it's
like it's going back like i love that inclusion
piece it made me think about something that i
said when we was talking when we first was gathering
for the the SNAP benefit council in D .C. back
in April. And, you know, we're all coming from
different states, different backgrounds, different
cultures. And I just had to say, you know, inclusion
can be okay, but at times there needs, like,
you know, I think, you know, you got to be careful
about trying to create policy because I feel
like that when you, a policy can never really
be a one fit all. There needs to be some exclusivity
within that possibility to address certain age
groups or certain demographics or certain cultural.
Because the inclusion should be that we're all
sitting at the table making the decisions together.
You know, not necessarily like, well, I'm going
to throw this blanket policy out here and I hope
that you fit up in it because there's more than
likely there's somebody going to be left out.
But if everybody is sitting at the table to make
a decision, then we all can be successful. And
that's kind of like what I look to do in my work
is just making sure that we're all people are
all sitting at the table and not just, you know,
a lot of you. So, you know, these type of benefits,
SNAP benefits, Medicaid benefits, you know, there's
stigmas around that you only have to you got
to be a woman or you got to have kids, you know.
And there's so many, you know, fathers or men
that don't get assistance or are unable to find
assistance because they feel like they can't
or these programs just make it heavy stipulations
to make it harder. And it's like, you know, we
care. We struggle, you know, at the same time.
Yes, I'm a man, but that doesn't mean that I
can't, you know, get assistance. And I think
like that's just that's where I come in with
the work is just making sure that people understand
that it's we. You can't just look at it in one
way. You can't just look at these certain people
that there are so many more. There are so many
more. Like, I'm lucky that I was able to, you
know, my sons came and I was able to qualify
to be able to feed him. But I just think, I just
think about what if, you know, I think about
all those past years where, like Z said, my lived
experience is not just doing this. I've experienced
poverty. I've experienced homelessness. I've
experienced all these things. I've experienced
needing assistance and couldn't get it. You know,
and getting turned down and getting turned down
and having to. And I've experienced having to
be a be a man in society and just pick up my
bootstraps and just get it done. Even if I'm
struggling, I got to struggle silently, you know,
because nobody's going to really care. You know,
I think that's why I speak up. And why I say
the things and I put myself in these councils
and align myself with these organizations like
PLTI, just to give more men, more fathers the
strength to be able to speak up and say things
and not feel like that you're less than a man,
that you're not less than. You know, I mean,
if you're going out doing whatever you need to
do for your family, then that's, you know, to
me, you're doing a darn good job. Whether it's
you going out getting a job or you're going out
asking and getting the resources that you need,
you're doing what's necessary. So that's what
I like to add into and just what I do and things
of that nature. Yeah, thank you, Anthony. That
is definitely sorely needed, what you just touched
on at the end. Bringing more men into the work,
bringing more fathers into the work. Without
that stigma that if you're coming in... asking
for resources, that doesn't make you any less
of a man. It doesn't make you any less of a father
or less of a caregiver. Like you said, you're
doing what you need to provide for your family.
And at the end of the day, that's what matters.
So thank you, Anthony, for what you're doing.
Thank you, Zee, for what you're doing as well.
And I wanted to pivot a little bit to the current
state of affairs in our country and the legislation
that's being passed, the legislation that's being
proposed. Carolyn, we're going to come back to
you a little bit because of your work in education
and your work in advocacy and the expertise you
have around SNAP. Are there any things that people
need to know about the big budget bill that just
recently passed? What do people need to know
in regards to SNAP and food assistance programs
from that bill? There's a lot. Unfortunately.
So there are some more technical changes that
may start being implemented at any time now,
and those will mainly affect SNAP eligibility
and benefit levels. And then the reconciliation
bill that passed back in July also included some
really big structural changes to SNAP. Those
won't go into effect for a year or two, maybe
longer, depending on your state. But states are
definitely thinking about those changes already
and may start planning for them in the coming
year. And Although, again, those changes mainly
affect states or counties, I think they are going
to ultimately affect SNAP participants and all
the people who need this assistance. So bear
with me because, again, it's a lot, but I think
it's important for people to understand. So starting
with some of those technical changes, one, the
bill expands who is subject to time limits on
SNAP participation because of compliance with
the strictest work requirements. So it used to
be in Snap that people 18 to 49 years old without
kids had to prove that they were working at least
20 hours per week to receive Snap. And if your
hours dropped below 20 hours a week, or you lost
your job, or you had trouble documenting your
hours, think of Anthony showing how many hours
you're cutting hair, you could only receive Snap
for up to three months every three years. A few
years ago, that got changed to adults ages 18
to 54 being subject to these time limits. But
in exchange, there were some exemptions for veterans,
adults experiencing homelessness, and young adults
recently aged out of the foster care system.
But now after the reconciliation bill passed
in July, it's going to be adults ages 18 to 64.
So already up another 10 years subject to these
time limits. The exemptions have gone away. And
for the first time, time limits will apply to
adults with dependent kids ages 14 and older.
So if you are a parent with teens, and again,
you have trouble documenting your hours or your
hours drop below 20 hours a week, you're going
to be subject to that three month time limit.
for yourself not for your kids but again that
can really affect a whole household benefit that's
technical change number one number two limited
how states can ask for waivers from those time
limits so again that'll affect a lot of people
that maybe they lived in a state or an area without
enough jobs their state got a waiver from those
time limits now those options are more limited
the bill also further limited snap eligibility
for non -citizens important to note just because
of misinformation out there that immigrants without
legal status have never been eligible for SNAP.
And there were several limits on immigrants with
legal status since 1996. But now eligibility
is going to be further limited to only green
card holders, certain Cuban and Haitian immigrants,
and lawful residents from places like Micronesia
that are covered by something called the Compacts
of Free Association. So Again, this rhetoric
around SNAP is drawing people to immigrate illegally
to the United States really isn't true. That's
not how the rules work. But now eligibility is
being further limited for non -citizens. The
bill also eliminated an option to include internet
costs when calculating income deductions, and
that can affect benefit levels and may in some
instances affect eligibility. Goes back to some
things he was talking about earlier about broad
days, categorical eligibility and gross income
versus net income. So again, pretty technical.
But again, it's just something that's going to.
limit eligibility and benefit levels alert that
limited when households can use what's called
the standard utility allowance based on when
they receive federal or state energy assistance
so this is just something that's going to increase
administrative burden more people would have
to document their actual utility costs when calculating
those income deductions and it may serve to also
limit eligibility and benefits levels The bill
also restricts future benefit increases that
would have better kept SNAP in line with the
latest like nutrition guidance and food availability
and shopping and food prep habits. Now SNAP is
going to be back to just being adjusted annually
for inflation and that is it. No periodic adjustments
to help SNAP keep up with changes in how people
shop and eat. So that was a lot. But now going
on to the big structural changes that I'm really
most concerned about. Currently, the federal
government pays for the full cost of SNAP benefits
and half the cost of administering the program.
And states, or in some cases counties, pay for
the other half of those administrative costs.
Starting next year in October of 2026, states
will have to pay 75 % of the cost of running
SNAP. That means the staff, the computer systems,
the EBT cards, those call centers that put you
on a three minute or 15 minute loop to stay connected.
And then obviously covering those higher administrative
costs is going to be harder when states are dealing
with changes that make the program harder to
administer, like time limits applying to more
people. And then for most states starting in
October of 2027, they'll have to pay a portion
of SNAP benefit costs for the first time ever.
And what they pay for benefit costs is going
to be based on what's called the payment error
rate. The payment error rate is all overpayments
or underpayments made by the state, whether that's
because of misunderstandings or mistakes by households
or because of administrative errors by state
or county workers. And so... The law, and I think
a misguided attempt to lower those administrative
errors, creates this tiered structure where states
with the lowest error rates won't have to pay
a portion of benefit costs, but other states,
depending on what their rate is, will have to
pay 5%, 10%, or 15 % of benefit costs. Some states
may get to delay that benefit cost share by one
to two years if they have a really high error
rate, but eventually this will apply to all states.
And just... For a frame of reference, only nine
states had an error rate for 2024 that was low
enough to avoid the benefit cost shift. So this,
again, is currently likely to apply to many states.
And again, with all these other technical changes
that I talked about, states are worried that
they're going to have higher error rates as they
figure out how to implement all of these things.
And so all of this will have a really drastic
impact on state budgets. Even though states get
a little bit of lead time for planning for what
their cost share will be based on their error
rate, like based on three years prior error rate.
you know, it still varies year by year. So that's
really concerning that states will have maybe
that up and down from year to year and again,
really massive costs that they're not used to
covering. And so I think that's really important,
too, because even if you don't participate in
SNAP, this will affect you because it will affect
your state's budget for everything else like
education and roads. But, you know, it's a little
early to know exactly how states are going to
handle this. They're still wrapping their minds
around. How do they lower their error rate? How
do they potentially absorb these costs, both
on SNAP and on other changes from the reconciliation
bill on Medicaid and other things? I know, it's
a lot. It is a lot. And at least to me, it sounds
like they are saying, how can we make this as
hard as possible so we can do away with SNAP
and other food assistance programs without actually
saying we're going to do away with SNAP and other
food assistance programs? You know, I'm glad
you mentioned that because when Anthony referenced
summer EBT being cut in his county in Tennessee,
summer EBT is a slightly different program from
SNAP, but operates pretty similarly. It's just
tailored to families with kids who receive free
or reduced price meals to receive a SNAP -like
benefit over the summer. And summer EBT should
be available across the country like SNAP currently
is, but states can choose to opt in or not to
summer EBT, and it's a new program, so not all
states have yet, or Tennessee started but then
decided to stop. We're worried that SNAP might
be like that. If states say, ugh, we can't really
stomach this uncertainty and these high costs
potentially, maybe we should just stop doing
SNAP in our state. And that would be devastating.
Yeah, I was just about to, I didn't want to interrupt,
but it makes me think about when you was talking
about the error rate. So like currently, the
state of Tennessee is being, with Shelby County
Health Department being sued because of the fact
of how they, the way they mishandled, like two
years ago, maybe even three years ago, three
summers ago, they decided to switch the system
electronically. So that was like, and when they
did that, it just went confused. I mean, people
were... getting cut off a month after they just
got approved. I remember I had a similar situation
with me. Three months in, they cut me off. I
had to go through an appeal. I was awaiting my
appeals for a year and a half before I finally,
like I said, about two years ago. It wasn't until
this past September, after a year and a half
wait, where they finally answered my appeal.
And it wasn't until January the 1st that I had
actually got approved. for my SNAP benefits.
And it was like, that was going, that was happening
across the city of Memphis. People's SNAP benefits
was getting stolen. Like, literally, like, as
soon as it drops into their car, they say they're
looking an hour later, they're gone. A state
like Tennessee, that's already one of the poorest,
you know, we're one of the poorest states in
the country. then they with a high error rate
there's going to be situations where people are
going to be approved or have to qualify for or
eligible for it but the state park is not going
to have the money to even get it so it's like
what then i so appreciate that anthony because
that's so what it looks like do you know what
i mean in so many areas for me one of the things
that i think it's important for the listeners
right i super appreciate carolyn what you were
talking about as far as the numbers even just
the admin fees going from 50 to 75 i was at a
conference recently and the head of human services
there in South Carolina was just giving us some
numbers, just like for people like me out in
the audience, right? Sitting there who didn't
know. And she said, just so you all are aware,
just going from 50 % to 75 % of the administrative
fees, I will have to go to our state legislature
and ask for $32 million more just to cover that
additional 25%. And South Carolina is not a huge
state. So I think that just for the listeners,
and Carolyn, I think a perfect synopsis and a
summary of what people in my community are afraid
of. Because some people are only hearing propaganda
pieces. Some people are only hearing from this
news source, from that. Some people are only
hearing from each other. Because when you're
living, just trying to survive and thrive, but
listening to the news and reading a bunch of
articles isn't really a part of that. right?
It's about like going to birthday parties and
taking your kids to the park when you're off
work and not paying attention. And then you hear
from a neighbor in a supermarket, like, oh, you're
using the EBT card. That's going to go away in
six months. And then that's just what you think.
And then that's what you tell everyone. So I
think there's a lot of fear and I super appreciate,
you know, what you just said there, Carolyn.
But I also think it's important for the listener
of the podcast to be aware that like going from
50 % to 75 % of admin costs in a smaller state
like South Carolina is over $30 million. let
alone what would have to be paid out in benefits.
So like, we're not talking small amounts of money
here. No, and I think too, you know, we have
a one pager that we've taken to the Hill to show
members of Congress, you know, this is what the
higher admin shift would mean. This is what the
benefit cost shift would mean. And the numbers
for big states like California or Texas or New
York are staggering. a billion dollars. But then
you even have small states like Wyoming where
it's like, oh, it's just a couple of million.
But for Wyoming, that's massive. Like they have
a tiny budget because they don't have a lot of
people there. So, you know, it's devastating,
I think, across the board. Well, I mean, this
has just been a riveting, insightful conversation
in terms of just like how this impact kind of
translates. to real life, right? I feel like
a lot of the times when you hear this conversation,
like you were talking about, Carolyn, you hear
a lot of these technical terms or some categorical
eligibility acronym, and it kind of just starts
to feel like. i don't really know what any of
that means but now we're getting into some of
these like impacts in community and even how
the states are reacting we're starting to see
how states are responding in positive ways in
some instances and then in some negative ways
and in terms of cutting people because they think
the cost is going to be too much this is a question
for all of you what are the best ways for people
to stay informed about what's happening since
more will come out in the next few months the
next few weeks and what can people do at the
state level for them and their families and their
communities access to food. I'd like to start
and just quickly put in a plug for continuing
to stay engaged at the federal level and telling
your members of Congress what these kinds of
changes will mean for you. I've been telling
people don't bank on everything getting rolled
back and going back to the way it was before,
but there's still a chance for that. And I don't
think you can just. stop and wait for other people
to do that work for you or to say it's futile
and not try. So again, Telling your members of
Congress what these changes would mean for you,
I think are so important. And also staying in
touch with state legislators, because now the
ball's in their court to think, how are they
going to deal with this uncertainty and these
potential big cost shifts? To let them know what's
important to you and that they should do everything
they can to preserve SNAP access in your state
and to not make really devastating cuts. But
acknowledging they are going to have hard choices
just because of what Congress put in front of
them. Yeah, I love that. I was intentionally
specific about the state piece, but I love that
you brought in the federal because that directly
impacts that state advocacy. So thank you for
bringing that to the forefront. Zia and Anthony,
I wonder what your thoughts are. I was just checking.
Continue to speak to your local reps, letting
them know, sharing your story. I think storytelling
is such a big impact. A lot of times they just
look at the numbers, but they don't have no faces
to them. If you're able to go to your state rep,
go out there, go to the Hill, request meetings,
sit down and talk to them, tell your story, tell
them your lived experience, bring as many people
as you can with you to go and tell them and put
them in their faces and let them know, let them
see the faces to the numbers that they just.
throwing policies at and it's something that
memphis does and you just do it locally and not
that you know it's just you know just create
you know create community gardens i mean you
know the community has to like in in this time
we have to kind of really build each other and
work with each other to you know when it obviously
seems like the government is not really caring
the community in a sense so You know what I mean?
Just get out there, you know, help each other
and stay informed. As far as fact -checking what
you see on social media, read the news, pay attention.
Stay informed and pay attention, you know, but
most definitely there's a lot that we can do.
There really is a lot. So do not feel like you
have no control over it. We are very powerful,
these people. are supposed to you know they're
supposed to work they work for us i think we
have to remember that that we are the contentious
and they must listen to our contentious so put
it out there let them hear your voice let them
be loud be as loud as you can be yeah i love
everything you said and especially about the
storytelling piece i recently read a study that
said like when storytelling is done well the
same neurons fire in the storyteller as the person
who's listening and so there's like a chemical
cohesion that happens when stories are told effectively
and it can really lead to a level of understanding
that is needed when doing this kind of work and
um z last but certainly not least I super appreciate
it. I love the question, you know, after talking
about everything and how it feels, you know,
it can feel a little hopeless, right? This piece
at the end of like, what can we do? And of course
I second, right? Reach out, reach out to Congress,
reach out to your state legislature, reach out
to your county and your city councils. And also,
well, first I'm going to say, if your electeds
are voting the way you want them to vote, right?
And they're doing the things that you want them
to be doing. Reaching out to them is still important
because they need a thank you. Because they're
in this vortex of crap, right? And so getting
a thank you is incredibly helpful to remind them.
So I think all of those pieces are real. But
I'm also good at, yes, the community gardens
and the taking care of your families and the
food banks and the sharing food and all of those
things within the community. I am also going
to say something that may not be particularly
popular, but... I think it's also okay to take
a step back if you need to for your mental health,
right? I get a lot of bombardment on social media
and email from friends. It's just one bill. I
just need you to testify. Here's the writing.
Just add your name. Anyone can do that. Do not
shame people who are trying to survive, right?
There are a million and a half ways that we can
fight. against all of these things. And they
do not all include reading the news every day
and sticking your face in Congress and being
miserable and having no energy left to play blocks
with your three -year -old at night. They do
not all include that, right? When there is a
sale at your local supermarket or when there's
a farmer's market that's doing the double bucks
for local food, you can also take a picture of
that and post it on social media in your community
group and let your neighbors know. And that is
also... You fighting to ensure that your family
and your community has food. When I have the
bandwidth, I am all in at conferences and reading
the news and all of those things. And when I
am not all in, it is the most unhelpful thing
to have other people that I am on the same side
as trying to guilt me into it, which all that
does is create shame for me. And so I just want
to end it by saying, like, absolutely. Community
gardens, read the news, reach out to your electeds,
talk about it, post about it, write about it.
And when you see a sale on popsicles at the grocery
store, post that on your Instagram as well. Because
every kid on the planet deserves for their adult
to say yes to popsicles every now and then. Right?
Like, that is where I stand on that. There's
work to be done and it can be done any number
of ways. Everyone deserves popsicles. So, yeah.
I love that, Z. One thing that we say sometimes
in our team meetings is that joy is a form of
resistance. Community is a form of resistance.
And so I just love ending it on that note. So
thank you for that. Yeah, I love that too, Hobson.
Joy is resistance. And I think we could all use
that reminder from time to time. And this also
feels like the right time and the right place
to close things out. But before we wrap up, though,
I want to thank our panelists by name. Anthony,
C, Carolyn, we're so grateful for the time and
wisdom you shared with us today. Thank you for
being with us. And just like we talked about
today, remember that taking action doesn't have
to look just one way. It could be calling your
representatives. It could be showing up at the
statehouse. It could be planting a garden. sharing
food with your neighbors, or even letting folks
know about good deals at the local supermarket.
Every one of those big or small steps helps us
build stronger communities where our families
are fed and every kid gets to enjoy a popsicle
every now and again. So thank you for being with
us. Please remember to take care of yourselves
and more importantly, each other. And we'll see
you next time for another episode of The Bold
and the Brave, a Parent Leader Podcast. Thank
you.