Pull up a chair and tell me a memory Why does
it matter to you? I want to hear your story,
your point of view Tell me what happened Hi,
and welcome back to Tell Me What Happened, the
podcast that features folks from all walks of
life telling us of one childhood experience and
how that event, that moment, impacted who they
are today. I'm your host, Jay Rehak, and like
you, I've had my share of childhood experiences,
some of them very positive and some of them actually
quite painful. But I'd like to think that everything
that ever happened to me has made me who I am
today. Tell Me What Happened is sponsored by
Sidelining Publishing, publishers of quality
books, including Susan Salador's classics, One
Little Act of Kindness, and I've Got Peace in
My Fingers, both available wherever quality books
are sold. They're the perfect gift for the holiday
season for the little ones in your life. All
right, today I have as my guest, Molly Dunn.
Molly is a disabled writer and former student
of mine. She has worked in the United States
Senate, earned a graduate degree from Oxford,
and spent time in Chicago Psych Ward. Her weekly
podcast, Ketamine Insights, explores mental illness
and psychedelic medicine from a patient's perspective.
Welcome to Tell Me What Happened, Molly Dunn.
Thank you so much, Mr. Rehak. I was wondering
if you were going to say Mr. Rehak or Jay. You
were a former student of mine back in the day,
Molly, and you were a great student. That's right.
It's hard to shift into Jay, but I could try
if you'd prefer. Either way, whatever makes you
feel comfortable. I'm grateful that you're on
the show. I'm grateful that you are still talking
to me in any capacity. It's been a while and
everything, and I'm grateful to know you. So,
Molly, are you ready to tell your story? I am.
All right, well, listen, I'm going to get out
of the way. What I'm going to do then is I'm
going to let you tell your story, and at the
end, I'm going to ask you just one question.
And that one question is, how do you think that
childhood experience has influenced who you are
today. So take it away, Molly. Thank you. So
first I'm going to say that memory can be a little
strange for me these days because about four
years ago, I forgot everything. I went through
what's now called electroconvulsive therapy.
It's also known as ECT, your back in the day
was called electroshock treatments. And that
was to try to help my lifelong depression. And
what it did was it wiped away my memory completely,
which is a known side effect. We knew that would
happen. I couldn't remember my own biography
for months and still my brain does feel different.
My mental stamina is just way worse than it used
to be. I don't, I can't read books anymore. And
my memory is really bad now, but I'm not, I'm
never really sure whether any given lapses because
of ECT or if it's just you know normal forgetting
everybody forgets their keys or forgets you know
their wallet sometimes and this can make storytelling
a little weird for me in part because I think
I treasure my memories now more than I did before
ECT and also I'm more unsure of them but this
one I'm pretty sure about And it's about my grandmother,
who I was really close to. Both of my parents
were raised Irish Catholic here in Chicago, and
they decided not to raise my brother and I within
the church. So we were not baptized, not confirmed.
My parents weren't married within the church.
And this was a very big problem for my grandparents
at the time, especially my grandmother, who she
used to yell at my mom about it. She used to
yell at us about it. And like, for example, one
time when I was real little, I went downstairs
during a big family party and I found my grandmother
in the back room of the basement ironing furiously
and crying to the ironing board and I asked her
what was wrong and she said it was because we
weren't baptized and I honestly kind of doubt
now that that was really why she was crying but
the point is it was a big deal in my family at
the time and it bothered me a lot to think that
big parts of my family including my grandmother
thought that me and my brother were going to,
you know, burn in hell, as far as I, like, that
was my understanding of it at the time. So we
couldn't, like, the thing about not being baptized
within the Catholic Church is like, you can't
really hide it because especially back then,
like, every family wedding and funeral and everything
included a mass. And if you were baptized, you
could go to mass, but You couldn't take communion.
And that was always like public. You can tell
at mass who takes communion and who doesn't.
And so another little side story when I was that
I went to Ireland a lot and they are even family
reunions. The priest came to the house when I
was 11 in Ireland and gave. a mass at the house
and the house was so crowded that the priest
had to walk around to every single individual
and give them communion. And I was standing right
next to my grandmother and I was the only person
in the whole family who had to refuse communion.
It was really embarrassing. It just felt really
horrible. So anyway, this story is about me actually
when we knew each other, Mr. Rehak, as I was
a sophomore at Whitney Young. And my grandparents
came over to our apartment for dinner. And at
some point, my grandma told us matter of factly
that she hadn't been to confession since my uncle
was born, which at the time was like 35 years
previous. And my grandma just like gets into
the story about how when that uncle was born
and he was her fifth child, she almost died in
childbirth, which my whole family had known.
And the doctors told her, you know, don't have
any more babies because it would be very dangerous
for you. So she's got five kids, you know, like
it's a scary proposition, obviously not to be
around to raise those kids or to have a sixth.
So she didn't know what to do. So she went to
her local priest, her local parish priest. And
she said, she went to confession and she told
the story, you know, the doctors tell me not
to have any more kids. What should I do? And
the priest said, why don't you try living with
your husband as brother and sister? And she doesn't
like, my grandmother didn't mess around. And
she was a really smart and quick woman. So she
said, well, father, wouldn't that be a violation
of my marriage vows? Which honestly is, you know,
it's a great point. And the priest had no response
for that. So she went to another parish and to
a different priest and went to the confession
booth and asked the same question, told him the
situation. And he said, why don't you try that
thing that they have now? What is it? The pill?
And this was completely against the teachings
of the Catholic Church. So she couldn't believe
it. And she told all of us very proudly, I haven't
been in confession since. I don't think they
know any more about God than I do. And everyone
at the table was like, just flabbergasted. Like,
what are you talking about, grandma? And at the
time, I was taking... AP European history from
Mr. Tennyson. And the big class project of that
semester was an in -class heresy trial for Martin
Luther. And I was one of Martin Luther's defense
lawyers. So I was like really steeped in what
Martin Luther had taught and how he disagreed
with the teachings of the Catholic Church. And
the way I understood it, one of Martin Luther's
central teachings was basically exactly what
my grandmother had said at dinner, which was,
you know, the church and its priests don't have
a direct line to God. And I just couldn't I would
have never said the story at the time, but I
was thinking to myself, like, grandma, you're
a Lutheran. Like, this is not, you're not a good,
you know, quote, good Catholic. And it blew our
minds because we had spent so many years thinking
we were the sacrilegious ones or something, you
know, like we were the ones that weren't following
the rules. And it was just such a shocking story
at the time. And I never forgot it. So that's
my story, Mr. Rehec. I love it. Your grandmother
was radical in her own way, for sure. Definitely.
Yeah. I feel your grandmother's sense, sensibility.
And in terms of your life, I can't imagine after
having sort of been mourned over the fact that
you weren't baptized. And then she's telling
you this story. It's like, wait a minute. You
are a Lutheran. All right. Well, anyway, I don't
want to take your story. I mean, I want to interpret
your story. I want you to interpret your story.
So how do you think that moment, that experience,
your grandmother's revelation impacted who you
are today? I think, I mean, on the one hand,
like, I completely agree with her. You know,
I don't think the Catholic Church or priests
or anybody, you know, has a more direct line
necessarily than you do or I do or my grandmother
did. I think it's like, I try to let that story
like remind me that we're all really full of
internal contradictions and also like it's important
maybe to try not, this is something that I struggle
with is like to try not to shape your lives according
to what other people want from you in part because
they don't care as much as you do but also in
part because like they're wants might not make
sense, you know, like it just might be kind of
nonsensical in the end. And also I think like
the most to me like the most beautiful part is
like similar to what you're doing here is that
like we often don't bother to ask for stories.
especially from the people we love, especially
from the people we're closest to, live with every
day. We think we know what motivates them and
how they came to be the people they are, or we
don't think it's our place to ask or something
like that. And I think like, if you really, you
know, even if you just start to scratch to the
surface, it'll, it's mostly, whenever I've done
that, it's usually surprising. And there's a
lot more kind of wisdom and insight and intricacies
than you might expect. when you're filling in
the blanks yourself. It's so true that stories,
especially from people who are sort of your adults
in your life, the older folks in your life, the
parents, the grandparents, et cetera, when you
get a deeper insight, it changes everything.
The paradigm shifts, I guess is what I'm trying
to say. And then you realize, wait a minute,
I've been sort of living my life, assuming something
that's not actually true. And maybe things are
deeper than I realize. Well, Again, I don't want
to get into my own family history, but I identify
tremendously with, you know, what you're talking
about. But again, it's not my story. So I'm going
to leave that alone. Now, let me ask you, we
talked before the show and you said that you
actually had written Sistina, which is to say
a significant poem regarding your grandmother
and your relationship with her. Can you read
that for us or say that? Sure. Yeah, I'd love
to. Yeah. So this poem is about that same grandmother.
and it is called us together. The two of us were
alone together, twice in our lives, sick. We
each took a turn. We cared for the other. We
loved actively. To me, she was more than grandma.
And in death, I find that she is not gone. Tomorrow,
they say she'll be 12 years gone. And only today
I realized that we were together when I had scarlet
fever, that it was grandma who sat by my side,
confident, competent with the sick. It was happenstance.
My parents worked, but her love would mean the
world for decades. Her care would be a hope,
a prize. I cared so much about her judgments,
still ringing years after she's gone. She was
so mean. But I knew I knew about her love because
she'd not at me quickly in approval Because we'd
been together when I was sick. I Didn't see until
today that it had been grandma When after years
I came home and hugged my grandma Felt how frail
she had become it took my breath. I cared and
I stayed with her then I held her sick until
only months later she was gone. I would dream
for years of us back together, healthy or sick,
confident and competent in our love. My memories
of her taught me the thing about love, how it
travels not just distance but time. Grandma,
who surely baptized me in secret, who, together
with so many of us, hid through drink our caring.
Our pain, our loneliness for each other. In a
way, she was often gone. In a way, we were both
so sick all along. The kind of sick one lives
with, despite love. Because of love, we thought
she'd never die. Now, 12 years gone. When I love,
when I turn my clodda inward, I think of grandma.
Me and her we do nothing more than care That's
not an easy way to be Thank God we're in this
together It's beautiful Thank you very much for
that. This is my 50th podcast, and that's my
first poem, so I appreciate that. It makes me
happy. I was an English teacher, so I love original
poetry. It moves me, and I actually have read
it and reread your piece on that, and I will
take another look at it afterwards just because
hearing it, you hear some pieces, but then you
got to kind of read it again. That's my view.
So if you don't mind, I might put it on the website.
Sure. Yeah, that'd be great. Underneath your
bio, just so people can take a second look if
they wanted to. Well, thank you for coming on
the show, Molly. I really, really appreciate
it. I haven't seen you in 5 ,000 years and it's
great to see you. Absolutely. Thank you so much
for asking me, Mr. React. This is great. I really
appreciate the chance to share a little story
about my grandmother and to catch up with you
again. Yeah, it's great. And actually, I enjoy
listening to ketamine insights. I don't I didn't
know about it actually, how it works or whatever.
And now listening to is pretty interesting. You
have a partner with that, right? Isn't there
another woman that works with you on that? I
do. Yeah, it's an old friend of mine named Lynn
Schneider. She is the co host and the two of
us kind of, you know, talk about mental health
and psychedelic medicine and the ideas. It's
from a patient's point of view. So that's kind
of a voice that I feel like is, is lacking in
the mental health conversation. So it's been
a lot of fun to do. We just published our eighth
episode today, actually. Hey, congratulations.
Well, I'll be sure to take a look at that. And
I'm also going, I will actually link it again
on the website. So people who would be interested,
we'll be able to pick it up. I'm assuming on
Apple podcasts and other other news, right? Yep.
Fantastic. All right, so that's our show. I'd
like to thank my guest, Molly Dunn. I'd also
like to thank our sponsors, Sidelining Publishing,
publishers of quality books. Again, go out there
and get Susan Salador's I've Got Peace in My
Fingers or One Little Act of Kindness for the
little person in your family for the holidays.
I'd also like to thank laughsaver .com. Visit
laughsaver .com and record your laughter. It's
free. We keep it for you forever. You can also
download the app on Android or iPhones. All right.
I'm going to end this show in honor of Molly
Dunn's relationship to her grandmother, which
is complicated, but I believe in the end was
love based. So we're going to end it with Susan
Salador's classic Love Reveille. So until next
time, This is Jay Rehak asking you all to please
stay safe out there and try not to hurt anybody.
Love Reveille. It's supposed to wake up our hearts.
I love you, I love you, I love you every single
day. I hear you, I hear you. I hear you And all
that you have to say I see you, I see you, I
see you And all the kind things you do I love
you, I love you, I love you Just because you're
you