WEBVTT

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Pull up a chair and tell me a memory Why does

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it matter to you? I want to hear your story,

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your point of view Tell me what happened Hi,

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and welcome back to Tell Me What Happened, the

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podcast that features folks from all walks of

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life telling us of one childhood experience and

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how that event, that moment, impacted who they

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are today. I'm your host, Jay Rehak, and like

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you, I've had my share of childhood experiences,

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some of them very positive and some of them actually

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quite painful. But I'd like to think that everything

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that ever happened to me has made me who I am

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today. Tell Me What Happened is sponsored by

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Sidelining Publishing, publishers of quality

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books, including Susan Salador's classics, One

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Little Act of Kindness, and I've Got Peace in

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My Fingers, both available wherever quality books

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are sold. They're the perfect gift for the holiday

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season for the little ones in your life. All

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right, today I have as my guest, Molly Dunn.

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Molly is a disabled writer and former student

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of mine. She has worked in the United States

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Senate, earned a graduate degree from Oxford,

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and spent time in Chicago Psych Ward. Her weekly

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podcast, Ketamine Insights, explores mental illness

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and psychedelic medicine from a patient's perspective.

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Welcome to Tell Me What Happened, Molly Dunn.

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Thank you so much, Mr. Rehak. I was wondering

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if you were going to say Mr. Rehak or Jay. You

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were a former student of mine back in the day,

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Molly, and you were a great student. That's right.

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It's hard to shift into Jay, but I could try

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if you'd prefer. Either way, whatever makes you

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feel comfortable. I'm grateful that you're on

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the show. I'm grateful that you are still talking

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to me in any capacity. It's been a while and

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everything, and I'm grateful to know you. So,

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Molly, are you ready to tell your story? I am.

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All right, well, listen, I'm going to get out

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of the way. What I'm going to do then is I'm

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going to let you tell your story, and at the

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end, I'm going to ask you just one question.

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And that one question is, how do you think that

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childhood experience has influenced who you are

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today. So take it away, Molly. Thank you. So

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first I'm going to say that memory can be a little

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strange for me these days because about four

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years ago, I forgot everything. I went through

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what's now called electroconvulsive therapy.

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It's also known as ECT, your back in the day

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was called electroshock treatments. And that

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was to try to help my lifelong depression. And

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what it did was it wiped away my memory completely,

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which is a known side effect. We knew that would

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happen. I couldn't remember my own biography

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for months and still my brain does feel different.

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My mental stamina is just way worse than it used

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to be. I don't, I can't read books anymore. And

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my memory is really bad now, but I'm not, I'm

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never really sure whether any given lapses because

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of ECT or if it's just you know normal forgetting

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everybody forgets their keys or forgets you know

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their wallet sometimes and this can make storytelling

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a little weird for me in part because I think

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I treasure my memories now more than I did before

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ECT and also I'm more unsure of them but this

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one I'm pretty sure about And it's about my grandmother,

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who I was really close to. Both of my parents

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were raised Irish Catholic here in Chicago, and

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they decided not to raise my brother and I within

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the church. So we were not baptized, not confirmed.

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My parents weren't married within the church.

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And this was a very big problem for my grandparents

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at the time, especially my grandmother, who she

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used to yell at my mom about it. She used to

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yell at us about it. And like, for example, one

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time when I was real little, I went downstairs

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during a big family party and I found my grandmother

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in the back room of the basement ironing furiously

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and crying to the ironing board and I asked her

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what was wrong and she said it was because we

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weren't baptized and I honestly kind of doubt

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now that that was really why she was crying but

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the point is it was a big deal in my family at

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the time and it bothered me a lot to think that

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big parts of my family including my grandmother

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thought that me and my brother were going to,

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you know, burn in hell, as far as I, like, that

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was my understanding of it at the time. So we

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couldn't, like, the thing about not being baptized

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within the Catholic Church is like, you can't

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really hide it because especially back then,

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like, every family wedding and funeral and everything

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included a mass. And if you were baptized, you

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could go to mass, but You couldn't take communion.

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And that was always like public. You can tell

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at mass who takes communion and who doesn't.

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And so another little side story when I was that

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I went to Ireland a lot and they are even family

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reunions. The priest came to the house when I

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was 11 in Ireland and gave. a mass at the house

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and the house was so crowded that the priest

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had to walk around to every single individual

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and give them communion. And I was standing right

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next to my grandmother and I was the only person

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in the whole family who had to refuse communion.

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It was really embarrassing. It just felt really

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horrible. So anyway, this story is about me actually

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when we knew each other, Mr. Rehak, as I was

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a sophomore at Whitney Young. And my grandparents

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came over to our apartment for dinner. And at

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some point, my grandma told us matter of factly

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that she hadn't been to confession since my uncle

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was born, which at the time was like 35 years

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previous. And my grandma just like gets into

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the story about how when that uncle was born

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and he was her fifth child, she almost died in

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childbirth, which my whole family had known.

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And the doctors told her, you know, don't have

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any more babies because it would be very dangerous

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for you. So she's got five kids, you know, like

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it's a scary proposition, obviously not to be

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around to raise those kids or to have a sixth.

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So she didn't know what to do. So she went to

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her local priest, her local parish priest. And

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she said, she went to confession and she told

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the story, you know, the doctors tell me not

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to have any more kids. What should I do? And

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the priest said, why don't you try living with

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your husband as brother and sister? And she doesn't

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like, my grandmother didn't mess around. And

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she was a really smart and quick woman. So she

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said, well, father, wouldn't that be a violation

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of my marriage vows? Which honestly is, you know,

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it's a great point. And the priest had no response

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for that. So she went to another parish and to

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a different priest and went to the confession

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booth and asked the same question, told him the

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situation. And he said, why don't you try that

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thing that they have now? What is it? The pill?

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And this was completely against the teachings

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of the Catholic Church. So she couldn't believe

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it. And she told all of us very proudly, I haven't

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been in confession since. I don't think they

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know any more about God than I do. And everyone

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at the table was like, just flabbergasted. Like,

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what are you talking about, grandma? And at the

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time, I was taking... AP European history from

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Mr. Tennyson. And the big class project of that

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semester was an in -class heresy trial for Martin

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Luther. And I was one of Martin Luther's defense

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lawyers. So I was like really steeped in what

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Martin Luther had taught and how he disagreed

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with the teachings of the Catholic Church. And

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the way I understood it, one of Martin Luther's

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central teachings was basically exactly what

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my grandmother had said at dinner, which was,

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you know, the church and its priests don't have

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a direct line to God. And I just couldn't I would

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have never said the story at the time, but I

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was thinking to myself, like, grandma, you're

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a Lutheran. Like, this is not, you're not a good,

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you know, quote, good Catholic. And it blew our

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minds because we had spent so many years thinking

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we were the sacrilegious ones or something, you

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know, like we were the ones that weren't following

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the rules. And it was just such a shocking story

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at the time. And I never forgot it. So that's

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my story, Mr. Rehec. I love it. Your grandmother

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was radical in her own way, for sure. Definitely.

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Yeah. I feel your grandmother's sense, sensibility.

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And in terms of your life, I can't imagine after

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having sort of been mourned over the fact that

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you weren't baptized. And then she's telling

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you this story. It's like, wait a minute. You

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are a Lutheran. All right. Well, anyway, I don't

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want to take your story. I mean, I want to interpret

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your story. I want you to interpret your story.

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So how do you think that moment, that experience,

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your grandmother's revelation impacted who you

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are today? I think, I mean, on the one hand,

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like, I completely agree with her. You know,

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I don't think the Catholic Church or priests

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or anybody, you know, has a more direct line

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necessarily than you do or I do or my grandmother

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did. I think it's like, I try to let that story

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like remind me that we're all really full of

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internal contradictions and also like it's important

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maybe to try not, this is something that I struggle

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with is like to try not to shape your lives according

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to what other people want from you in part because

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they don't care as much as you do but also in

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part because like they're wants might not make

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sense, you know, like it just might be kind of

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nonsensical in the end. And also I think like

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the most to me like the most beautiful part is

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like similar to what you're doing here is that

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like we often don't bother to ask for stories.

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especially from the people we love, especially

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from the people we're closest to, live with every

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day. We think we know what motivates them and

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how they came to be the people they are, or we

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don't think it's our place to ask or something

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like that. And I think like, if you really, you

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know, even if you just start to scratch to the

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surface, it'll, it's mostly, whenever I've done

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that, it's usually surprising. And there's a

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lot more kind of wisdom and insight and intricacies

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than you might expect. when you're filling in

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the blanks yourself. It's so true that stories,

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especially from people who are sort of your adults

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in your life, the older folks in your life, the

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parents, the grandparents, et cetera, when you

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get a deeper insight, it changes everything.

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The paradigm shifts, I guess is what I'm trying

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to say. And then you realize, wait a minute,

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I've been sort of living my life, assuming something

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that's not actually true. And maybe things are

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deeper than I realize. Well, Again, I don't want

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to get into my own family history, but I identify

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tremendously with, you know, what you're talking

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about. But again, it's not my story. So I'm going

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to leave that alone. Now, let me ask you, we

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talked before the show and you said that you

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actually had written Sistina, which is to say

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a significant poem regarding your grandmother

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and your relationship with her. Can you read

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that for us or say that? Sure. Yeah, I'd love

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to. Yeah. So this poem is about that same grandmother.

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and it is called us together. The two of us were

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alone together, twice in our lives, sick. We

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each took a turn. We cared for the other. We

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loved actively. To me, she was more than grandma.

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And in death, I find that she is not gone. Tomorrow,

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they say she'll be 12 years gone. And only today

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I realized that we were together when I had scarlet

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fever, that it was grandma who sat by my side,

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confident, competent with the sick. It was happenstance.

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My parents worked, but her love would mean the

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world for decades. Her care would be a hope,

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a prize. I cared so much about her judgments,

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still ringing years after she's gone. She was

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so mean. But I knew I knew about her love because

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she'd not at me quickly in approval Because we'd

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been together when I was sick. I Didn't see until

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today that it had been grandma When after years

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I came home and hugged my grandma Felt how frail

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she had become it took my breath. I cared and

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I stayed with her then I held her sick until

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only months later she was gone. I would dream

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for years of us back together, healthy or sick,

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confident and competent in our love. My memories

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of her taught me the thing about love, how it

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travels not just distance but time. Grandma,

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who surely baptized me in secret, who, together

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with so many of us, hid through drink our caring.

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Our pain, our loneliness for each other. In a

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way, she was often gone. In a way, we were both

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so sick all along. The kind of sick one lives

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with, despite love. Because of love, we thought

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she'd never die. Now, 12 years gone. When I love,

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when I turn my clodda inward, I think of grandma.

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Me and her we do nothing more than care That's

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not an easy way to be Thank God we're in this

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together It's beautiful Thank you very much for

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that. This is my 50th podcast, and that's my

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first poem, so I appreciate that. It makes me

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happy. I was an English teacher, so I love original

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poetry. It moves me, and I actually have read

00:14:29.419 --> 00:14:31.539
it and reread your piece on that, and I will

00:14:31.539 --> 00:14:34.179
take another look at it afterwards just because

00:14:34.179 --> 00:14:36.519
hearing it, you hear some pieces, but then you

00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:38.720
got to kind of read it again. That's my view.

00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:41.320
So if you don't mind, I might put it on the website.

00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.879
Sure. Yeah, that'd be great. Underneath your

00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:48.539
bio, just so people can take a second look if

00:14:48.539 --> 00:14:51.440
they wanted to. Well, thank you for coming on

00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:53.899
the show, Molly. I really, really appreciate

00:14:53.899 --> 00:14:55.980
it. I haven't seen you in 5 ,000 years and it's

00:14:55.980 --> 00:14:59.360
great to see you. Absolutely. Thank you so much

00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.620
for asking me, Mr. React. This is great. I really

00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:04.379
appreciate the chance to share a little story

00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:06.139
about my grandmother and to catch up with you

00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:09.200
again. Yeah, it's great. And actually, I enjoy

00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.820
listening to ketamine insights. I don't I didn't

00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:14.019
know about it actually, how it works or whatever.

00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:17.080
And now listening to is pretty interesting. You

00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:19.059
have a partner with that, right? Isn't there

00:15:19.059 --> 00:15:21.600
another woman that works with you on that? I

00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.379
do. Yeah, it's an old friend of mine named Lynn

00:15:24.379 --> 00:15:27.679
Schneider. She is the co host and the two of

00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.860
us kind of, you know, talk about mental health

00:15:30.860 --> 00:15:34.019
and psychedelic medicine and the ideas. It's

00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:36.639
from a patient's point of view. So that's kind

00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:39.440
of a voice that I feel like is, is lacking in

00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:40.960
the mental health conversation. So it's been

00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.320
a lot of fun to do. We just published our eighth

00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:45.919
episode today, actually. Hey, congratulations.

00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:47.519
Well, I'll be sure to take a look at that. And

00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.940
I'm also going, I will actually link it again

00:15:49.940 --> 00:15:53.080
on the website. So people who would be interested,

00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.379
we'll be able to pick it up. I'm assuming on

00:15:55.379 --> 00:15:58.500
Apple podcasts and other other news, right? Yep.

00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.259
Fantastic. All right, so that's our show. I'd

00:16:03.259 --> 00:16:05.759
like to thank my guest, Molly Dunn. I'd also

00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.879
like to thank our sponsors, Sidelining Publishing,

00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.340
publishers of quality books. Again, go out there

00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:13.679
and get Susan Salador's I've Got Peace in My

00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:16.879
Fingers or One Little Act of Kindness for the

00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.500
little person in your family for the holidays.

00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.879
I'd also like to thank laughsaver .com. Visit

00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.340
laughsaver .com and record your laughter. It's

00:16:25.340 --> 00:16:27.960
free. We keep it for you forever. You can also

00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:31.879
download the app on Android or iPhones. All right.

00:16:31.940 --> 00:16:34.360
I'm going to end this show in honor of Molly

00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:38.100
Dunn's relationship to her grandmother, which

00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:41.159
is complicated, but I believe in the end was

00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:43.740
love based. So we're going to end it with Susan

00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:47.639
Salador's classic Love Reveille. So until next

00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:51.350
time, This is Jay Rehak asking you all to please

00:16:51.350 --> 00:16:54.190
stay safe out there and try not to hurt anybody.

00:16:54.730 --> 00:16:59.350
Love Reveille. It's supposed to wake up our hearts.

00:17:04.450 --> 00:17:12.410
I love you, I love you, I love you every single

00:17:12.410 --> 00:17:21.029
day. I hear you, I hear you. I hear you And all

00:17:21.029 --> 00:17:28.549
that you have to say I see you, I see you, I

00:17:28.549 --> 00:17:36.569
see you And all the kind things you do I love

00:17:36.569 --> 00:17:44.529
you, I love you, I love you Just because you're

00:17:44.529 --> 00:17:45.369
you