WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.379 It is possible to be thankful every moment, every 00:00:04.379 --> 00:00:08.439 day. It is possible to be thankful every moment, 00:00:08.740 --> 00:00:12.419 every day. It takes practice and humility. It 00:00:12.419 --> 00:00:16.480 takes vision and civility. Hi, and welcome to 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:19.039 Tell Me What Happened, the podcast that features 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:22.140 people from all walks of life talking about real 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.920 events from their childhood and how those events 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:28.519 impacted their lives. I'm your host, Jay Rehack. 00:00:28.670 --> 00:00:31.030 And I love listening to stories from people's 00:00:31.030 --> 00:00:33.429 childhoods, which also help me understand who 00:00:33.429 --> 00:00:36.850 those people are. Tell Me What Happened is sponsored 00:00:36.850 --> 00:00:40.130 by Sidelining Publishing, publishers of quality 00:00:40.130 --> 00:00:43.490 books, including Susan Salador's children's book, 00:00:43.689 --> 00:00:47.149 I've Got Peace in My Fingers, available worldwide 00:00:47.149 --> 00:00:50.409 wherever quality books are sold. Tell Me What 00:00:50.409 --> 00:00:54.409 Happened is also sponsored by laughsaver .com. 00:00:54.789 --> 00:00:58.130 Visit laughsaver .com and record your laughter. 00:00:58.789 --> 00:01:01.689 LaughSaver .com will keep it for you, now and 00:01:01.689 --> 00:01:04.530 forever. Your family will appreciate it. It's 00:01:04.530 --> 00:01:07.930 free and it's easy to use. That's LaughSaver 00:01:07.930 --> 00:01:12.129 .com. Today I'm honored to have as my guest, 00:01:12.530 --> 00:01:15.709 author and educator, Dr. Wilma Turner. Dr. Turner 00:01:15.709 --> 00:01:19.450 is the author of Everyday Racism in America and 00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:22.950 The Power of Forgiveness. Welcome, Dr. Turner. 00:01:22.989 --> 00:01:26.670 I look forward to hearing your story. Thank you, 00:01:26.709 --> 00:01:28.750 Jay. What I'm going to tell you is that I tell 00:01:28.750 --> 00:01:31.349 all my guests, which is I'm going to do my best 00:01:31.349 --> 00:01:33.909 not to interrupt you. So I'm going to turn off 00:01:33.909 --> 00:01:37.030 my microphone and just listen to your story. 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:40.109 So if you're ready to take over, the microphone 00:01:40.109 --> 00:01:46.829 is yours. Okay, thank you. Well my story starts, 00:01:47.349 --> 00:01:51.430 I'm starting in 1962 when I was 16 years old. 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:56.079 And what happened is I helped to integrate this 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.859 all white high school in Charleston, Missouri. 00:02:00.420 --> 00:02:03.900 We went to court. A group of parents and the 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:09.259 NAACP took the Charleston Board of Ed to court. 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:13.719 And the reason was because at that time, all 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:17.000 the black students had to go to the quote unquote 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.180 black high school and all the white students 00:02:20.180 --> 00:02:25.219 went to the white high school. And even though 00:02:25.219 --> 00:02:29.539 that was unconstitutional, I mean, based on Brown 00:02:29.539 --> 00:02:34.960 versus the Board of Ed, 1954, I believe, it was 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:39.400 unconstitutional to segregate in the public schools. 00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:45.080 So not only that, but in the black high school, 00:02:45.500 --> 00:02:49.919 where I actually found three mentors, all the 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:52.270 teachers there were black. There were three teachers 00:02:52.270 --> 00:02:56.289 there who had gone to Tuskegee Institute, which 00:02:56.289 --> 00:03:00.750 is a HBCU, one of the historical black colleges. 00:03:01.469 --> 00:03:06.210 And they saw something in me. They said to me, 00:03:06.409 --> 00:03:09.770 you need to go to college. And I said to them, 00:03:10.969 --> 00:03:13.310 my mother doesn't have any money to send me to 00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:17.409 college. So they said, but there is a way to 00:03:17.409 --> 00:03:21.169 do it and we will help you. However, All of the 00:03:21.169 --> 00:03:23.409 things that you need are not here in this school. 00:03:23.490 --> 00:03:26.050 For instance, in the Black High School, we only 00:03:26.050 --> 00:03:32.150 had two years of English. Most colleges want 00:03:32.150 --> 00:03:35.610 you to have four years of English. We only had 00:03:35.610 --> 00:03:38.469 Algebra 1, for instance. We didn't have calculus 00:03:38.469 --> 00:03:40.949 in the Black High School. We didn't have trade. 00:03:40.990 --> 00:03:43.969 We didn't have chemistry. We had a library, but 00:03:43.969 --> 00:03:47.050 there were maybe 100 old raggedy books in the 00:03:47.050 --> 00:03:50.469 library. The thing is that it was not, even though 00:03:50.469 --> 00:03:56.270 it was separate, it was was not equal. So I wanted 00:03:56.270 --> 00:03:59.169 to go to the best high school. Not that I wanted 00:03:59.169 --> 00:04:03.870 to go to school with white children, but to the 00:04:03.870 --> 00:04:08.189 best high school. And so based on the court order, 00:04:08.949 --> 00:04:13.189 they had to let 14 of us into that school because 00:04:13.189 --> 00:04:15.969 those were the parents that had put that had 00:04:15.969 --> 00:04:18.970 filed a suit. And in addition to that, there 00:04:18.970 --> 00:04:22.250 were two different school districts at that time. 00:04:22.389 --> 00:04:26.990 I lived in what was called Wyatt, Missouri. And 00:04:26.990 --> 00:04:30.050 kids from Wyatt had to go to school in Charleston, 00:04:30.110 --> 00:04:33.290 you know, small country towns. But anyway, it 00:04:33.290 --> 00:04:38.589 ended up being 14 of us. And I remember the first 00:04:38.589 --> 00:04:40.949 day of school, even though this is more than 00:04:40.949 --> 00:04:44.230 a half century ago, which sounds like a long 00:04:44.230 --> 00:04:49.420 time. But I remember that the first day of school, 00:04:49.500 --> 00:04:52.040 some of the kids were outside when we were coming 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:55.899 in. And some of them decided they were going 00:04:55.899 --> 00:04:59.319 to throw tomatoes at us. I guess that was the 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:02.680 way to let us know we don't want you here. We 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:08.279 don't need you here. This is our school. So I 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:10.680 think maybe that was the first time I started. 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:14.480 realized maybe this is what hate looks like because 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:17.699 they didn't know us. They just knew that we were 00:05:17.699 --> 00:05:20.819 black, they were white, we were trying to come 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:25.399 to their school. So in addition to that, that 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:29.500 first day I remember that my first class was 00:05:29.500 --> 00:05:34.500 a literature class and I was a junior by that 00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:38.480 time because up until that time all the black 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:40.959 kids had to go to the black high school. And 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:43.620 so I went there for my freshman and sophomore 00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:47.279 year. So by the time I went to Charleston High 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:49.839 School, I was a junior. And my first teacher, 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:52.839 she gave us seats, three or four of us were juniors. 00:05:52.939 --> 00:05:55.319 And so, you know, when we were looking for our 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:57.779 seats, she said to sit there in the back of the 00:05:57.779 --> 00:06:00.319 room because all of the seats had already been 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.680 assigned. And I was thinking to myself, we're 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:09.670 in the back of the room. And then she said, I've 00:06:09.670 --> 00:06:13.689 never taught Negroes before. So Negroes is kind 00:06:13.689 --> 00:06:16.750 of in between being called, you know, N -word 00:06:16.750 --> 00:06:20.310 and being called Negro, which is what Black folks 00:06:20.310 --> 00:06:23.290 were called back then. But things like that, 00:06:23.750 --> 00:06:27.509 it's like people are deliberately using words 00:06:27.509 --> 00:06:30.290 to hurt you and to let you know that you're not 00:06:30.290 --> 00:06:34.910 welcome here. So once we left class, and you 00:06:34.910 --> 00:06:37.250 have to walk down the hallway to get to your 00:06:37.250 --> 00:06:41.670 next class. It was like Moses parting the Red 00:06:41.670 --> 00:06:44.790 Sea, because all the white kids kind of went 00:06:44.790 --> 00:06:47.829 on both sides of the hallway, you know, up against 00:06:47.829 --> 00:06:52.370 the lockers to let the black kids come by. And, 00:06:52.829 --> 00:06:56.170 you know, we, they called us the N -word. Everybody 00:06:56.170 --> 00:06:59.149 knows what that means nowadays. They would take 00:06:59.149 --> 00:07:02.689 black shoe polish and write on our lockers, go 00:07:02.689 --> 00:07:06.029 home. you know we don't want you here and they 00:07:06.029 --> 00:07:10.970 would find old pictures of old ugly I guess I 00:07:10.970 --> 00:07:14.029 don't know maybe homeless black people and tape 00:07:14.029 --> 00:07:17.569 them to our lockers so that when we got to school 00:07:17.569 --> 00:07:20.689 already you know there's something there that 00:07:20.689 --> 00:07:25.550 shows their hostility so it it occurred to me 00:07:25.550 --> 00:07:30.610 that maybe they were thinking that black kids 00:07:30.990 --> 00:07:34.870 were not smart, that we're all too dumb to go 00:07:34.870 --> 00:07:37.230 to this white school. You know, we don't have 00:07:37.230 --> 00:07:41.230 the academic ability. So even though some of 00:07:41.230 --> 00:07:44.410 the kids that went there with me, I know, I remember 00:07:44.410 --> 00:07:47.990 one girl, she fought somebody every day, because 00:07:47.990 --> 00:07:50.250 when they called her a name, she'd punch them 00:07:50.250 --> 00:07:52.730 in the mouth. But I had never been a fighter, 00:07:52.990 --> 00:07:57.029 not that way anyway. I decided that my fight 00:07:57.029 --> 00:08:01.019 would be academically. And I needed to show them 00:08:01.019 --> 00:08:04.699 how smart I was and just how smart Black people 00:08:04.699 --> 00:08:09.540 are in general. And so I decided to study, which 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:13.959 is what I did. And that first, it was October 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:16.000 when we got there. So at the end of that first 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:20.319 semester, I was on the honor roll. And I was, 00:08:20.500 --> 00:08:23.379 you know, I'm so happy that they can see my name. 00:08:24.139 --> 00:08:26.779 It seems to me I was at the... top of the honor 00:08:26.779 --> 00:08:30.019 roll and I'm still gonna try to find that somewhere 00:08:30.019 --> 00:08:33.179 because that was a long time ago. I know I specifically 00:08:33.179 --> 00:08:36.360 was on the honor roll and I was so proud of myself 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:40.779 because I'm saying now you know I've shown them 00:08:40.779 --> 00:08:43.100 look at that you know I'm on the honor roll. 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.500 In addition to that I decided I was going to 00:08:46.500 --> 00:08:49.620 I've always loved to sing and so I persuaded 00:08:49.620 --> 00:08:53.289 my best girlfriend to get into the glee club 00:08:53.289 --> 00:08:56.070 with me. I wanted to be anywhere they did not 00:08:56.070 --> 00:09:00.330 want me to be. So Betty and I got in the glee 00:09:00.330 --> 00:09:04.529 club. Betty was a soprano. I'm an alto. So that 00:09:04.529 --> 00:09:06.909 means that we got a chance to blacken up the 00:09:06.909 --> 00:09:09.129 glee club because she's over there and I'm over 00:09:09.129 --> 00:09:12.840 here. And then the next thing that happened was 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:16.960 I decided they had an oratory contest. They called 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:21.399 them declamatory contest back then. So what you 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:25.460 would do is learn something and get up on stage 00:09:25.460 --> 00:09:29.059 and, you know, present it. So I did that. I was 00:09:29.059 --> 00:09:31.879 really good, too, because everything I did I 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:35.860 tried extra hard. I remember I learned this monologue 00:09:35.860 --> 00:09:40.250 called Gossiping Gertie. The thing is that Gertie, 00:09:40.470 --> 00:09:43.450 and it's humorous, Gertie was talking to her 00:09:43.450 --> 00:09:46.769 imaginary children, the whole thing was imaginary, 00:09:46.970 --> 00:09:50.730 and while gossiping on the phone to a girlfriend. 00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:53.029 And her children were getting into all kinds 00:09:53.029 --> 00:09:57.350 of bad things, you know. So anyway, the audience, 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:00.690 I guess they forgot for a minute that I was black. 00:10:01.129 --> 00:10:05.409 They were applauding and they enjoyed being entertained. 00:10:05.710 --> 00:10:08.789 And I won second place. I was really good, though. 00:10:08.830 --> 00:10:10.590 I should have won first place, but I guess they 00:10:10.590 --> 00:10:12.649 said, you know, we can't really let her win first 00:10:12.649 --> 00:10:15.509 place because this is one of the people who came 00:10:15.509 --> 00:10:17.850 over here by court order and we didn't really 00:10:17.850 --> 00:10:21.009 want her over here. So, you know, we've got to 00:10:21.009 --> 00:10:25.669 kind of tone that down. And so I started to think 00:10:25.669 --> 00:10:30.289 of myself as, you know, I can do this. Any of 00:10:30.289 --> 00:10:32.990 the things that they say that I can't do, I really 00:10:32.990 --> 00:10:37.039 can do. And so, and then I noticed that I used 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:40.799 to kind of, when we first got there, teachers 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:43.899 would not give you a break. I mean, if you forgot 00:10:43.899 --> 00:10:47.759 to cross a T, that was a minus one. If you didn't 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:49.960 put a dot at the end of the, you know, the teachers 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.399 didn't want us there either. Didn't put anything 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:55.720 at the question mark, some mark at the end of 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:58.980 a sentence, that was a minus one. And so I started 00:10:58.980 --> 00:11:03.440 to, even though I got good grades, and I noticed 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.990 that some, times you know somebody would try 00:11:06.990 --> 00:11:10.909 to talk to me some of the white kids and I would 00:11:10.909 --> 00:11:13.389 cover up my paper just because I don't want you 00:11:13.389 --> 00:11:16.509 to see what I have on my paper because now you 00:11:16.509 --> 00:11:19.009 know I'm smart so now you want to talk to me 00:11:19.009 --> 00:11:21.830 but I don't want to talk to you. You know the 00:11:21.830 --> 00:11:25.570 other thing I remember is that there was one 00:11:25.570 --> 00:11:29.129 young boy I guess he must he was in high school 00:11:29.259 --> 00:11:32.919 And he was the only person that ever said anything 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:35.700 nice to me the whole time I was at that school 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:38.759 for two years. He's the only one that I can remember. 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:42.419 And he used to smile sometimes, and he would 00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:46.480 say hi, kind of under his breath. He probably 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:49.580 wanted to talk to me or to talk to us, but the 00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:52.419 other kids wouldn't allow that, you know, what 00:11:52.419 --> 00:11:57.139 they would call him back then. So even though 00:11:57.139 --> 00:12:02.320 I went through that, I learned that I'm smart. 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:05.159 I'm just as smart as anybody else. If I apply 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:08.399 myself, and it doesn't matter what you say about 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.539 me, what matters is what I think about myself. 00:12:12.259 --> 00:12:16.419 That's more important. And so from that point 00:12:16.419 --> 00:12:22.179 on, I dealt with the racism part. But I knew 00:12:22.179 --> 00:12:28.440 that because I had gone to church, from the time 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:32.960 I was a little bitty girl. I was about three 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.820 years old. Of course, I was three when my father 00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:38.860 passed away, and so my mother raised me on her 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:42.879 own. But from the time I was a little girl, I 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:44.919 was at church. And I remember you're supposed 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:48.639 to love everybody. I never learned hate. I didn't 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.340 know what that was all about. And so even though 00:12:52.340 --> 00:12:56.980 I fought back, And I learned to curse, too. I 00:12:56.980 --> 00:12:58.539 don't know where I learned that, because my mother 00:12:58.539 --> 00:13:01.059 never used foul language. I learned it somewhere, 00:13:01.179 --> 00:13:03.279 because that was one of my defense mechanisms 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:06.159 when somebody would call me the N -word. I just 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.519 called them something as well. But anyway, when 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.860 it all came down to almost time for me to graduate, 00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:17.659 one of the things that happened was that the 00:13:17.659 --> 00:13:20.419 Charleston Board of Ed had to reorganize all 00:13:20.419 --> 00:13:23.460 of the schools because of the court order. And 00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:28.059 so my second year there, there were other black 00:13:28.059 --> 00:13:31.000 kids in the school because everybody had to go 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.980 to the same school. They were made to reorganize 00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:38.220 the whole school district. And so when I think 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:41.279 about what I went through and what those of us 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.799 who went through when we were the first ones 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:48.620 there, it was worth it just to, because now all 00:13:48.620 --> 00:13:52.250 of the kids go to the same school. They have 00:13:52.250 --> 00:13:55.289 a brand new school, reorganized school district, 00:13:55.610 --> 00:13:58.649 and it has nothing to do with your race, has 00:13:58.649 --> 00:14:00.970 to do with where you live in the city. But there's 00:14:00.970 --> 00:14:03.789 only one high school, so all of the black kids, 00:14:03.850 --> 00:14:06.230 white kids, everybody goes to the same school. 00:14:06.769 --> 00:14:09.769 And so, you know, what we went through, it was 00:14:09.769 --> 00:14:15.269 worth it just because we made it better for someone 00:14:15.269 --> 00:14:19.450 else. And when I see, I see my name in the court 00:14:19.450 --> 00:14:21.809 documents, which is another thing. I'm like, 00:14:21.870 --> 00:14:24.389 oh, that's really me. This really did happen. 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:26.809 I didn't dream this whole thing. Because sometimes, 00:14:26.929 --> 00:14:29.970 you know, because it was 50 years ago plus, I'm 00:14:29.970 --> 00:14:34.330 like, do I remember that correctly? But I know 00:14:34.330 --> 00:14:36.570 that I can go and look in the court documents 00:14:36.570 --> 00:14:39.769 and see my name. And so I just, I thank God for 00:14:39.769 --> 00:14:42.669 that experience. It has taught me and allowed 00:14:42.669 --> 00:14:47.549 me to do something to help other people. So that's 00:14:47.549 --> 00:14:52.009 my story, Jay. Thank you doctor for that very 00:14:52.009 --> 00:14:58.710 powerful, personal, formative story. I'm embarrassed 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:01.190 as human being that there ever was such a thing 00:15:01.190 --> 00:15:04.269 and still is such a thing as segregation and 00:15:04.269 --> 00:15:08.990 hatred based on really no defendable anything. 00:15:09.690 --> 00:15:13.690 Yeah, and it's no accident. I believe we are 00:15:13.690 --> 00:15:16.570 all who we should be, you know, and that God 00:15:16.570 --> 00:15:21.059 has a purpose for everybody's life. So that was 00:15:21.059 --> 00:15:24.799 just one of my purposes. Yes. Well, you seem 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.799 to have come out of it stronger and wiser, but 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:30.799 could you just tell me now, you know, it's 50 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.860 years, but in those intervening 50 years since 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:38.700 then, what has been the impact of that childhood 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:41.919 experience, essentially integrating that school 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.460 with the 13 other people? So what is the impact, 00:15:45.460 --> 00:15:48.610 would you say, of that? particular moment, that 00:15:48.610 --> 00:15:50.970 particular time, that particular year. Can you 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:53.250 just give me a sense of what happened in your 00:15:53.250 --> 00:15:56.370 life over the last 50 years that would sort of 00:15:56.370 --> 00:16:00.769 show us how that moment impacted you? Sure. Well, 00:16:00.850 --> 00:16:05.230 you know, after graduating from high school and 00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:10.330 those teachers that helped me to get into Tuskegee 00:16:10.330 --> 00:16:13.990 College, I went there on what they called, it 00:16:13.990 --> 00:16:17.629 was a program for you know poor students and 00:16:17.629 --> 00:16:20.990 you could go to school for five years you work 00:16:20.990 --> 00:16:23.629 your whole way through and that's how I got to 00:16:23.629 --> 00:16:26.570 college and once I got to college you know it 00:16:26.570 --> 00:16:30.090 was in the 60s so the whole civil rights thing 00:16:30.090 --> 00:16:34.309 was was really up and running by then and so 00:16:34.309 --> 00:16:38.330 I got involved in the protest the civil rights 00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:41.429 the demonstrations that whole thing because I 00:16:41.429 --> 00:16:45.830 guess I was set up for that so to speak because 00:16:45.830 --> 00:16:51.250 now I could do something. Actually, I could march 00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:54.090 and I can protest and I can do all of those things 00:16:54.090 --> 00:16:58.470 to let people know that these are my civil rights. 00:16:58.649 --> 00:17:01.649 And so that's how I got involved in the civil 00:17:01.649 --> 00:17:05.130 rights protest. And I remember my mother was 00:17:05.130 --> 00:17:08.029 really scared. She thought that I would probably 00:17:08.029 --> 00:17:10.410 go to jail or maybe they would turn the dogs 00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:13.349 on me and all that stuff that she saw on television. 00:17:14.239 --> 00:17:18.740 And, you know, because I'm an only child, at 00:17:18.740 --> 00:17:23.579 least I was back then. She was afraid and I was 00:17:23.579 --> 00:17:26.279 going no matter what she said, you know, because 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:28.900 I felt it was something I needed to do. If they 00:17:28.900 --> 00:17:32.059 turn the dogs on me, let it be. If they spit 00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:34.779 on my face, whatever they wanted to do, I was 00:17:34.779 --> 00:17:36.819 determined that this is where I needed to be 00:17:36.819 --> 00:17:39.579 and I needed to let people know these are my 00:17:39.579 --> 00:17:42.230 rights and I'm going to fight for them. And then 00:17:42.230 --> 00:17:46.230 so after graduating from college, I became a 00:17:46.230 --> 00:17:51.450 teacher. And it was interesting, though, that 00:17:51.450 --> 00:17:54.630 all of the kinds of things that I used to think 00:17:54.630 --> 00:17:58.269 about myself, well, I'm not really as good as 00:17:58.269 --> 00:18:00.230 these other people. That's why they don't want 00:18:00.230 --> 00:18:03.309 me here. I didn't want my students to think that. 00:18:03.609 --> 00:18:07.529 And so I made it my goal. And all of my students, 00:18:07.529 --> 00:18:10.049 I worked in the inner city my whole teaching 00:18:10.049 --> 00:18:13.779 life. All of my students were black, lived in 00:18:13.779 --> 00:18:16.079 inner city most of them. I wanted to make sure 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.839 that they knew that they were and their ancestors 00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:24.279 were kings and queens in Africa and that they 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:27.220 were smart and brilliant and creative and they 00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:29.519 could do anything they wanted to do if they put 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.480 their minds to it. And so I felt it was my responsibility 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:38.609 to teach these kids and to let them know that 00:18:38.609 --> 00:18:41.029 you can do anything that you want to do. And 00:18:41.029 --> 00:18:44.150 so I taught them some of the freedom songs that 00:18:44.150 --> 00:18:47.150 I learned when I was marching. I taught them 00:18:47.150 --> 00:18:49.970 about those civil rights demonstrations. And 00:18:49.970 --> 00:18:53.069 actually one time we had a sit -in, you know, 00:18:53.329 --> 00:18:54.930 with the principal's permission, because I didn't 00:18:54.930 --> 00:18:57.410 want to disrupt the school. But we sat in in 00:18:57.410 --> 00:19:00.650 front of the office. at school to protest. We 00:19:00.650 --> 00:19:04.029 made signs so that they would get the whole thing 00:19:04.029 --> 00:19:07.170 about your civil rights and what I had gone through. 00:19:07.450 --> 00:19:09.829 And we were protesting the school lunches, which 00:19:09.829 --> 00:19:13.690 really should have been protested. We were protesting, 00:19:13.910 --> 00:19:16.690 you know, the fact that recess was too short. 00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:22.670 But anyway, it was a good thing. And even now, 00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:26.579 I have one or two... former students that still 00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:29.940 keep up with me after all of these years. I know 00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:33.640 where they are, they text me, they call me, and 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.700 they say thank you for what you did for us, because 00:19:37.700 --> 00:19:40.579 now they are contributing members of society. 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:45.500 And I did not want to teach them hatred. For 00:19:45.500 --> 00:19:49.759 one thing, my faith would not allow me to hate 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.940 anybody, no matter what you did to me. I learned 00:19:52.940 --> 00:19:55.619 that if I wanted to be forgiven, if I wanted 00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.359 God to forgive me for some of the things I've 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:00.680 done that I should not have done, then I needed 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:04.099 to be able to forgive other people. And I also 00:20:04.099 --> 00:20:06.579 learned that, you know, forgiveness is something 00:20:06.579 --> 00:20:10.039 you hold within yourself. It bothers you. It 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:13.619 doesn't bother the other person. And so that's 00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:16.380 one of the things that I wanted to make sure 00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:20.319 that my students knew, not to hold you know, 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:21.960 all of the kinds of things that I was telling 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.400 them that happened, not to hold that against, 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.480 you know, the people that were doing it, but 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:29.660 to free themselves by the power of forgiveness. 00:20:29.859 --> 00:20:33.200 And, you know, that saying that unforgiveness 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.900 is like drinking poison and expecting the other 00:20:37.900 --> 00:20:40.819 person to die. And I really do believe that. 00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:45.079 And so now, I mean, I feel that all the things 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:47.700 that happened to me were a part of God's plan. 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.799 And what's even funnier than that, Jay, is when 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:58.400 I did my dissertation, I had five white men on 00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:01.140 my dissertation committee, and I thought it was 00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:04.000 funny. I said, God, you really do have a sense 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.420 of humor, right? So, but, I mean, each and every 00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:10.970 one of them were just... wonderful. They did 00:21:10.970 --> 00:21:14.230 everything they could to help me to do what I 00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:17.490 wanted to do, which was my book is actually my 00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:21.970 dissertation, Everyday Racism in America came 00:21:21.970 --> 00:21:28.450 from my dissertation. So that's my story. Well, 00:21:28.450 --> 00:21:30.509 thank you for that doctor. I really appreciate 00:21:30.509 --> 00:21:34.509 it. I appreciate all that you have tried to do 00:21:34.509 --> 00:21:38.329 and have done as a consequence of some of the 00:21:38.329 --> 00:21:41.869 early suffering that you've experienced. And 00:21:41.869 --> 00:21:45.670 again, I just feel terrible as a human being 00:21:45.670 --> 00:21:47.589 that any other human being had to go through. 00:21:47.589 --> 00:21:50.309 Well, you shouldn't though, Jay. You didn't do 00:21:50.309 --> 00:21:53.450 anything. Nah, but you know, I'm part of the 00:21:53.450 --> 00:21:55.549 human experience. You're part of that group of 00:21:55.549 --> 00:21:58.849 people that they're talking about nowadays. Yeah. 00:21:58.890 --> 00:22:01.690 We're all in it together. And when I see suffering 00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:07.089 on the outside of me, but as... It's selective 00:22:07.089 --> 00:22:10.349 or whatever the right word is that I say to myself 00:22:10.349 --> 00:22:14.089 well as an individual though That's but but you 00:22:14.089 --> 00:22:18.910 know you're I think now as an individual You 00:22:18.910 --> 00:22:22.289 do what you can do to correct what you see when 00:22:22.289 --> 00:22:24.690 you see something going on Do something like 00:22:24.690 --> 00:22:26.890 John Lewis said sometimes you have to make some 00:22:26.890 --> 00:22:30.079 good trouble If you see something that's happening 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.619 and it's not right, say something, do something. 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:34.640 That's what you can do. You can't do anything 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.799 about what happened in the past. Well, thank 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.640 you, doctor, for all the good trouble you have 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.079 caused over time and that you're continuing to 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.460 do. I love the idea of forgiveness as a central 00:22:48.460 --> 00:22:52.039 theme to your work also. I feel gratified that 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:56.009 you have it in your heart to forgive. Oh, yeah, 00:22:56.210 --> 00:22:59.970 so thank you. Thank you for allowing me to do 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:05.069 this All right, that's our show like to thank 00:23:05.069 --> 00:23:09.269 dr. Turner for that deeply personal painful childhood 00:23:09.269 --> 00:23:14.369 story Also like to thank our sponsors side lining 00:23:14.369 --> 00:23:17.390 publishing publishers of quality books including 00:23:17.390 --> 00:23:20.450 Susan salad or as Children's book. I've got peace 00:23:20.450 --> 00:23:26.079 in my fingers and Scott sumas Timely work. Don't 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:29.500 act like the president. Available worldwide through 00:23:29.500 --> 00:23:32.299 Amazon .com or wherever quality books are sold. 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:35.839 Also like to thank our other sponsor, LaughSaver 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:39.940 .com. LaughSaver .com invites you to go to their 00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:44.140 website, Record Your Laughter, for free. They'll 00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:48.319 keep it for you, now and forever. Your grandchildren 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:50.880 and their grandchildren will thank you for it. 00:23:51.140 --> 00:23:54.470 That's LaughSaver .com. Now we're going to end 00:23:54.470 --> 00:23:58.690 this show, as we often do, with Susan Salador's 00:23:58.690 --> 00:24:03.670 classic, Every Moment, Every Day. Until next 00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:07.309 time, this is Jay Rehaq, asking you all to stay 00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:09.849 safe out there, and try not to hurt anybody. 00:24:10.170 --> 00:24:14.670 It is possible to be thankful every moment, every 00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:18.150 day. It takes practice and humility. It takes 00:24:18.150 --> 00:24:21.849 vision and civility. It takes beauty and the 00:24:21.849 --> 00:24:30.710 wisdom to see it everywhere. It takes practice 00:24:30.710 --> 00:24:34.710 and humility. It takes vision and civility. It 00:24:34.710 --> 00:24:38.690 is possible to be thankful every moment, every 00:24:38.690 --> 00:25:03.119 day. It is possible to be thankful every moment, 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:04.279 every day.