WEBVTT

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Thank you. Hi, and welcome back to Tell Me What

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Happened, the podcast that features folks from

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all walks of life telling us one story from their

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childhood and how that event impacted who they

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are today. I'm your host, Jay Rehack, and like

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you, I've had my share of childhood experiences

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that impacted who I am today. But I'd like to

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think that everything that happened to me has

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helped make me a better person. Tell Me What

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Happened is sponsored by Sideline Ink Publishing.

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Publishers of quality books, including Susan

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Salinor's classic, One Little Act of Kindness,

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available on Amazon .com and wherever quality

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books are sold. Tell Me What Happened is also

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will thank you for it. That's laughsaver .com.

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All right. Well, today I have as my guest, a

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good friend of mine, Bill Ayers, distinguished

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professor of education at the University of Illinois.

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He has written extensively about social justice,

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democracy, and teaching as an essentially intellectual,

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ethical, and political enterprise. His books

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include About Becoming a Teacher, Teaching Toward

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Freedom, and To Teach. He also writes the podcast

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Under the Tree, a seminar on freedom. Welcome,

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Bill. Nice to see you, Jay. Bill, are you ready

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to tell your story? I am. All right, Bill, I'm

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going to get out of the way. At the end, I'm

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going to ask you just one question. How do you

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think that story and that event impacted who

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you are today? But take it away, Bill. I'm the

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middle child of five in my birth family. I learned

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to play up with the big kids. And I learned to

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play down with the littles. I learned to get

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along with everyone, as well as to get to the

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dinner table early and to eat fast. Optional

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chewing became a way of life for me. It still

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is. I was born near the end of World War II.

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I grew up in suburban Chicago in a time of peak

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everything, peak oil, peak prosperity, peak conformity.

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And I had the sweetest mom in the world. Her

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personal motto perfectly fitted the tone. and

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temperament of her circumstances and her times,

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it'll be fine. She said it no matter what happens,

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it'll be fine. I remember coming home bleeding

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one day because I'd run into a tree on my bicycle,

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knees bruised, elbows bleeding, and mom took

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one look at me and said it'll be fine. And of

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course she cleaned it up and it was fine. She

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had a status of a kind of clairvoyant, you know.

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She always said it'll be fine, it always was

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fine. That was her wellspring and principal channel,

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but she had many, many brooks and streams. For

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example, everyone in our family remembers that

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her mom was on the beach one day and a tick was

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burrowing in through her calf. And she looked

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at the tick and she said, that is really interesting.

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And we all howled with laughter. Interesting.

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The tick is eating you. What are you talking

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about? But that was mom. And any time anything

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came up from that day on, anything despicable

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or odious or unpleasant, the family motto was,

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that's interesting, like a tick bite, because

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that was mom's way. Her excessive joy, unbounded

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optimism, her generosity and good cheer, her

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surplus happiness was both a gift and a bit of

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a curse. She was the captain of her ship and

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the captain of mine as well when I was a kid.

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And it was a ship of high expectations for the

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good, a confidence to act in happiness for ourselves

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and for the world. So I was born on a ship of

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hope, in a world of privilege, a ship of fools

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and a sea of carelessness. Whatever I would become,

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whatever we'd make of ourselves, we'd launch

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from that certain happy deck. I loved war movies.

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As I said, it was the end of World War II. And

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I was in love with John Wayne, Montgomery Cliff,

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Henry Fonda. I just thought these were the greatest

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things in the world. I was at the Glenn Theater

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every Saturday afternoon and the movie swallowed

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me. And they kind of poured into our games in

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the street. We played war games every night.

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Every summer we would race up and down the neighborhood,

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war games, different crews, different tribes.

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But one summer morning when I was about 10, at

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an age when war play was beginning to fade as

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a preoccupation, the calm and quiet of my neighborhood

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was shattered by the sounds of sirens. Ambulances

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and fire trucks rushed up the street, converging

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on the house right across from ours. And I ran

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barefoot with my brothers and my sister to see

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what was happening. Kids from everywhere crowded

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the lawn, and we were thrilled to have serious

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-looking cops tell us, stay back. I was giddy,

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I was excited and happy, joking in rough housing

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with my friends, and I was gripped by a fresh,

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tingling feeling of the expectant scene. Within

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moments, a surge of firefighters spilled through

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the front door, hosting a stretcher with a bloody

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body flung upon it. It was Jimmy, a kid just

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eight years older than me. And I'd known him,

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and he'd blown his brains out with a handgun.

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I got sick. Jimmy, I found out later, didn't

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want to go to Korea. He felt like a misfit. Plus,

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he was high -strung, I was told, and must have

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been temporarily insane. I realized then that

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there was the world beyond our green lawns and

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our neatly trimmed hedges. And that's my story.

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Man, man, that makes me cry to think about that

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poor kid. I think about you too, even you and

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your family at the, you know, a little guy joking

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around and all of a sudden it turns serious on

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you, but that must have been some traumatic moment

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for you there, Bill. Staggering, staggering.

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And suddenly the real world pressed in in a way

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that was completely unexpected. Well, I know

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you for many years, as you know, you and I go

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back a long way because we're both educators

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and I actually knew you before you knew me, which

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is to say you're sort of famous in a way because

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of your anti -war activism. I don't want to jump

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on the impact of Jimmy's death on you, but as

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an outside observer, I can't help but think that

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your kid's death may have turned you. I don't

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want to speak for you. I'll let you tell me how

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you think it's impacted your life. Well, I would

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say there's two things, Jay, and one is that

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war wasn't funny anymore. that what seemed heroic

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and manly from the movies suddenly seemed hollow

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and frightening. And so that's one impact for

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sure. But the other is that realizing that there's

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a world beyond your narcissism, beyond your scope,

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beyond the suburbs, beyond America, to realize

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that there's something bigger. And that's become

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a a lifelong quest of mine is to, and I say it

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to my students all the time, we have to spend

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our time trying to open our eyes, not once where

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we see everything and then we're all completely

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clear. No, you have to open your eyes every day

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anew, and you have to find new perspectives,

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new angles of regard, and you have to kind of

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act on what the known demands of you. I would

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not, I was living I was kind of with my mother,

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sleeping the deep, deep American sleep of denial.

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And when you wake up from that, it can be quite

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shocking, but also important to your own humanity.

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Yeah, I guess that is interesting. As you said,

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I am thinking of the contrast of your mother

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saying, it'll be fine. It's like, yeah, but also

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there's a lot of stuff out there that maybe we

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can do something about. Maybe. I don't know.

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I don't know. but this is a good example where

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Jimmy's coming out on a stretcher and there's

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no it'll be fine for Jimmy it will not be fine

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nor for his mother and you know that was the

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end and and it was something so amazing to me

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and eight years later I was at the University

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of Michigan and I was blinking my eyes open and

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I saw a world on fire and I felt like I had to

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act on that world and that has been the defining

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I guess a defining feature of my conscious life

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is wanting to open my eyes and see what's underneath

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the neatly trimmed hedges and so on. And that's

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really beautifully put, Bill. I mean, I'll tell

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you, like I said, I've known you for a thousand

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years. I know you've been teaching at the U of

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I for a million years and helping young teachers

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try to get... I think to that understanding that

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it's a big world out there and we got to try

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to give everybody a chance to see it and everybody

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a chance to live with eyes wide open and not

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necessarily in a false sense of security. And

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at the same time, you don't want to have people

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walking around in despair either. Well, I mean,

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I think that there's two things really, Jay,

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and you and I have talked about this forever.

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But one is exemplified in your teaching, which

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is you have to have one eye. aimed at your children,

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at your students. You have to see them as fully

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as you can see them, not as little bits of deficit,

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not as little labels, but you have to see them

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as the full human beings they are. That's one

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eye. The other eye has to be looking to a world

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that could be and maybe should be. And that's

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the whole idea of expanding your horizons, getting

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out of your narcissistic zone, and trying to

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see with empathy and generosity a big, big world

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that's dynamic and ever -changing. But it's the

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two things because you have to see the kid and

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you have to see the kid fully and in scale, you

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know. So you go from the smallest of tiny details

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to the largest concentric circles of meaning

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and history and culture. It's an exciting profession,

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isn't it? It really is and I've been blessed

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to be in it for a while. Me too. Loved every

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minute of it. I think I tried my best every minute

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of it. Before we get on the air, we were talking

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about your son, who is actually, I don't know

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if he's in elementary school or high school teacher.

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No, he's a middle school math teacher in Oakland,

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California. And he's a lifer. He's been at it

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for 15 years. And he's going to stay at it. But

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he's that teacher that the kids want to crowd

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into his room at lunchtime. And they want to

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hang out with them after school. He's that teacher.

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If I say to him, Malik, you're a great teacher.

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He says, Pops, don't say that. I'm a guy who

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tries to show up every day and do a decent job.

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I said, that is greatness in teaching. That is

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greatness. You know, you don't have to be Jaime

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Escalante or some movie star. You do the work.

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Amen to that man. I'm glad I'm glad that you

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were professor for all those years telling these

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teachers the same thing on these wannabe teachers

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or perspective teachers the same thing because

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Because I think I did get into the business thinking

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so I was gonna solve everybody's problem and

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that really isn't how it worked You just do the

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best you can do The astonishing thing Jay, you

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know, I think I think you and you and I, and

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the folks we know who we admire as teachers,

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we have a personality flaw. And the personality

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flaw is we don't need much feedback to keep going.

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I can have one student come back to me. I can

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have one student come back to me and said, you

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know, you made a difference in my life. And I

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always say, was it a positive difference? And

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if they say yes, That'll keep me going for another

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five years. I don't need much. I don't need much.

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Amen to that. I think that's exactly right. I've

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definitely been blessed to have those occasional

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moments where somebody says something nice. And

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then it's like, OK, I got the engine, the gasoline

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to keep going for a while. Exactly. But if you

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go into it, I always ask teachers. Are you in

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this to get rich or famous? And they laugh at

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me. I say, good. I don't have to start at the

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very beginning. But you're not going to get rich.

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You're not going to get famous by being a teacher.

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But you're going to find yourself doing ethical

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work day in and day out on the ground, real life

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ethics. And that's different than becoming lawyer

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reading the warranties on toaster ovens or whatever

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lawyers do. You don't get the recognition, but

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you get the joy. Yeah. Yeah, I had a lifetime

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of it. I've enjoyed every minute of it. I've

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been blessed every minute of it, even though

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at the time, every once in a while I do look

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around and I say, did I do the right thing for

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my family or whatever? Could I have done better

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for them in another way? But personally, I couldn't

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have done any better than I did. Well, it is

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better for them. You raised two tremendous...

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girls, you have these two young women who have

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all the right perspectives on their own lives

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and on trying to make their way in the world

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that'll make a difference. What could be better

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than that? And they saw in you somebody who was

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doing moral, ethical work, intellectual work,

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very few professions you can say, I get up every

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morning. I have to think my way into what I'm

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doing and I have to do the right thing day in

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and day out in a world of complexity where the

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right thing isn't obvious always. That's beautifully

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said. Well, I'm going to leave it at that, Bill.

00:14:21.629 --> 00:14:23.549
Your kind words, I'm going to leave it at that.

00:14:23.990 --> 00:14:26.730
Thank you for being on the show. Say happy to

00:14:26.730 --> 00:14:30.029
do it and go forth and do good. Thank you, my

00:14:30.029 --> 00:14:32.509
brother. I appreciate that. Talk to you soon.

00:14:32.809 --> 00:14:35.149
Talk to you soon. All right. Well, that's my

00:14:35.149 --> 00:14:38.889
show. I'd like to thank my friend, mentor, Professor

00:14:38.889 --> 00:14:41.730
Bill Ayers, man I've known for many years, who

00:14:41.730 --> 00:14:44.450
is an author, of course, but he also has a podcast

00:14:44.450 --> 00:14:47.389
called Under the Tree, a seminar on freedom.

00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.799
And he's had some incredible guests. I've gone

00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.720
through it, and you should check it out if you

00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.779
get a chance. I'd also like to thank our sponsors,

00:14:57.740 --> 00:14:59.500
Sidelining Publishing, publishers of quality

00:14:59.500 --> 00:15:03.100
books, and laughsaver .com. Visit laughsaver

00:15:03.100 --> 00:15:05.960
.com and record your laughter. We'll keep it

00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:09.500
for you now and forever. It's free. That's laughsaver

00:15:09.500 --> 00:15:13.039
.com. So I'm going to end this show a little

00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.820
differently. In honor of our friends in Ukraine,

00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:20.159
and the folks in Russia as well. I'm going to

00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:24.120
end this show with Susan Salador's classic, I've

00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:27.899
Got Peace in My Fingers, hoping it all gets resolved

00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:33.539
soon. So until next time, this is Jay Rehak asking

00:15:33.539 --> 00:15:36.120
you all to please stay safe out there and try

00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:40.840
not to hurt anybody. I've got peace, peace, peace

00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:45.700
in my fingers. Watch what I can do. I've got

00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:50.039
peace. Piece, piece in my fingers I'm gonna shake

00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:55.080
hands with you I've got piece, piece, piece in

00:15:55.080 --> 00:16:00.120
my fingers Watch what I can do I've got piece,

00:16:00.580 --> 00:16:04.399
piece, piece in my fingers I'm gonna shake hands

00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:09.799
with you I've got words, words, words in my head.

00:16:10.019 --> 00:16:15.620
Watch what I can do. I've got words, words, words

00:16:15.620 --> 00:16:19.379
in my head. I'm gonna talk things over with you.

00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:24.399
I've got words, words, words in my head. Watch

00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:29.860
what I can do. I've got words, words, words in

00:16:29.860 --> 00:16:32.960
my head. I'm gonna talk things over with you.

00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:38.830
I've got love. Love, love in my heart Watch what

00:16:38.830 --> 00:16:44.570
I can do I've got love, love, love in my heart

00:16:44.570 --> 00:16:49.850
I'm gonna give some to you I've got love, love,

00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:55.230
love in my heart Watch what I can do I've got

00:16:55.230 --> 00:17:00.090
love, love, love in my heart I'm gonna give some

00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:05.619
to you I've got peace, peace, peace in my fingers.

00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:09.740
Words, words, words in my head. I've got love,

00:17:10.099 --> 00:17:14.299
love, love in my heart. I'm gonna give song to

00:17:14.299 --> 00:17:14.519
you.
