WEBVTT

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Hi and welcome back to Tell Me What Happened,

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the podcast that features folks from all walks

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of life telling us childhood stories. I'm your

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host, Jay Rehak, and like you, I've had my share

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of childhood experiences, some of them great,

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some of them not so great. But I like to think

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that everything that happened to me as a child

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has helped me to become who I am today. Tell

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Me What Happened is sponsored by Sideline Inc.

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Publishing, publishers of quality books, including

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Susan Salazar's classic One Little Act of Kindness,

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available on Amazon .com wherever quality books

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are sold. Tell Me What Happened is also sponsored

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LaughSaver .com. Go there today and record your

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laughter. Alright, I'd like to welcome my good

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friend Michelle Gunderson. Michelle, I've known

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her for a thousand years. She is an early childhood

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educator, recently retired. She's also a union

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activist. She's one of the heroes, I would say,

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of my 35 year teaching experience where I looked

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at her and was always impressed. Anyway, welcome

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to the show, Michelle Gunderson. Thank you, Jay.

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And thank you for this show. You and I had a

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chance to talk earlier about how important it

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is to tell. stories from early childhood. And

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I wanted to quote a woman who is considered the

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expert of play, Jill Murphy. And her book on

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play is read by early childhood educators around

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the country. And she talks about childhood amnesia

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and how adults forget what it was like to be

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a child. And that childhood amnesia is a huge

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part of why we have such bad educational policy.

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or why sometimes teachers don't relate well to

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the children they're teaching. So when you started

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this podcast I thought of her immediately and

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also how important it is for adults who work

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with children or form policy or have children

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or grandchildren that really includes all of

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us. to start thinking about what it was like

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to be a child so that we have empathy, but also

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that we make the right decisions when dealing

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with children or forming policy about children.

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So let's highlight that right now, that idea

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of childhood amnesia. I'm going to use that,

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by the way. I'm going to use that in my podcast

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in the future. I think that is excellent. Thank

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you so much for that. Absolutely. And so a lot

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of times when I was teaching, 34 years of teaching,

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whenever I would cringe at what another teacher

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said, or maybe how an administrator approached

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a child, I would think, that person forgets what

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it was like to be a child. Or maybe that person

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forgets what it was like to be the last one chosen

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in basketball. or the stories that create us

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and make us human, the good ones, as you said,

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and the tough ones too. So I'm going to tell

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my story. It's actually not very long, but it's

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a beautiful childhood memory that was interrupted.

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So. Some people have stories for good and some

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people have stories that are difficult to listen

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to about childhood. Mine is actually a really

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pleasant memory. My sister and I are only 18

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months apart and we're very, very close to one

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another. Then when we were five and three, we

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lived in a tri -level home. built in the 1960s

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and at the top of the stairs was this closet

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that was wide and deep and ran around the whole

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length of the stairwell and it was the perfect

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play space for children because it was enclosed

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and it felt safe. And we would decide every other

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day or so what it was going to be. Was it going

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to be a jungle? Was it going to be a palace?

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Was it going to be a kitchen? And we would spend

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a long time deciding what the play was going

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to be. And then we would act out the story and

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the play was deep. One of the things that we

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have to understand about childhood is children

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need deep play, not superficial play or not.

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play that is gamified, but true deep child initiated

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child directed play. And day after day, we would

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dress up and play and decide who we were going

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to be. And it felt magical. And I still remember

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the magic of that play. When we were when I was

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six, we had to leave that home to move closer

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to my father's work and our new house never felt

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the same. It was never a good place to play.

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My mom loved her house very tidy, very orderly,

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and the place she chose for us to play was downstairs

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and it was far away from everybody else and it

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wasn't enclosed or safe or cozy. So in my childhood,

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I've always had this grieving of that sense of

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place to the point where during the pandemic,

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I started having dreams about it. And I think

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all of us started having really intense dreams

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during the first months of the pandemic. And

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I asked my husband to drive me past my childhood

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home to kind of put the dreams to rest. I had

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this intense need to see it again. It had just

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been sold so I could see it on Redfin and could

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see all the rooms and what it looked like. And

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it actually was very therapeutic to have that

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remembrance. of that time. So I wanted to tell

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this story instructively as a person who works

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with young children, because there's two things

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here that we, and maybe even more, that we need

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to think about. One is remembering the good things

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about childhood, not just the ones that created

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our hardships. or formed us in ways that were

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traumatic even and that we have to analyze how

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important play is in a child's life and that

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play interrupted can be difficult for children.

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The other part of this story that helps me with

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childhood amnesia and working with children and

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especially a Chicago public school early childhood

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teacher is understanding family mobility. and

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understanding how difficult it is for a child

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to move. And especially since I taught first

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grade for the most of my career, a move for a

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six -year -old is really a difficult experience.

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And as Chicago teachers, I always had two or

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three extra spaces in my room for new students

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several times during my career. the space was

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there for a homeless student or a child who experienced

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housing insecurity, as we say now. And I would

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always want to make sure there was a welcoming

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place at any moment in time in my classroom,

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because we just never know who's going to show

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up on our doorstep. And nothing is more disconcerting

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to a classroom. or a child you're trying to greet

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than to scramble for something. And those of

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us who have taught in Chicago understand what

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it feels like. A child and a parent usually show

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up midday because we have to understand how the

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shelter system in Chicago works. You have to

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pack up your belongings. You have to go get your

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breakfast. You usually have to stand in line

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for things. So many times when a child who was

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experiencing house insecurity, housing insecurity

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would come to my door. It wouldn't be the first

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thing in the morning. There would not be a chance

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for me to get things together or to organize

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myself. And so I want us to all remember that

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even a child like me who had two working parents

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and a loving family and food and a new house

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to go to, I experienced incredible loss in moving.

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So let's take that understanding and really open

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our hearts up to children who experience housing

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insecurity, but also the mobility rate in Chicago

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because of poverty. Our children many times go

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from place to place or relative to relative.

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And we have to understand how that feels for

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them. And so that is the bulk of... of what I

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wanted to say about that. But also, then, let's

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go to the positive feelings about childhood in

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play. When we talk about sense of space and what

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it means to a child, there's a really wonderful

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woman named Debbie Miller, and she wrote this

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book called Growing Readers. And she talked about

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sense of space for a reader all the time. And

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the very first lesson that she says you should

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have with six -year -olds is draw your place

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you love to read. So let's unpack that and how

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important it is, that sense of place. First of

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all, you're making assumption that you love to

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read and that reading is something to love. The

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next thing you do is that you help children understand

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that sense of place and habit and love and comfort.

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When you do this exercise with six -year -olds,

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you get a lot of information really fast. You

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find out who doesn't love to read, who might

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need support and help in finding a calmness in

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order to read. Think about how complicated it

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is to learn to read and how much you have to

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feel good about yourself. have confidence in

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your safety, not have your mind preoccupied with

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other things. So I dearly adore this educator,

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Debbie Miller, for understanding that we need

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to build inside our classroom as well, places

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where children love to read. And it's usually

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not a desk and a chair, right? Guess where I

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love to read as a child? In that closet with

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a bunch of pillows and a lamp and a flashlight.

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Oh my gosh, how many kids? absolutely love to

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read under the covers with a flashlight, that

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sense of having your secret place, so that you

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can develop your inner self and your inner life.

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And so think as if you are an educator reading

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this or a parent or a grandparent, think about

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establishing that beautiful safe place for a

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child to read or learn. And it's usually not

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the desk you set up in the corner of the room.

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It's usually the comfortable place. When we think

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about childhood amnesia, my first grade classroom,

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we all sat in desks in a row. I went to first

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grade in 1965. And we had hardback chairs. desks

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in a row did not talk all day long and we were

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seated alphabetically because it was easier to

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pass the papers in that way for the teacher to

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grade and everything was pencil and paper oriented

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and done to self. How lucky am I that my parents

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were educators and I had a house full of books

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and could read before I went to school because

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learning to read like that is what some people

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call read -aside, killing reading. and making

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reading something that is done in isolation out

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of context without the help of others. And we

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know from Vygotsky that we all need socialization

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and the social venue in order to learn. So safe,

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cozy space does not need to be expensive and

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it doesn't need to be extensive. How many times

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did you have a large box and that's where your

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child wanted to play? Right? Not something that

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we have to have as a point of privilege. And

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children will find these places themselves, but

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honor them. Don't have your child pick it up

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every night. Don't make it someplace that you

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consider unattractive. Make sure it's a... space

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that you honor and hold steadfast for the child.

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I also wanted to talk about helping children

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tell their own stories just like this and that

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that's your way of knowing more about children

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and understanding them. A child the other day,

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I was substitute teaching. I'm so lucky to be

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substitute teaching in the Chicago schools right

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now because it helps me understand what everybody

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is still going through and that it is even more

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difficult than when we left off school in spring

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of 2021 because now we have more students in

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front of us. And I didn't think it was going

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to be fair for me to continue as a union leader

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or a voice for early childhood teachers unless

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I kept myself inside the classroom from time

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to time. And so I was a substitute teaching in

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a second grade classroom and a little girl had

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her mask on and she goes, oh no, my tooth fell

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out and it's in my mask. And later on, poor kid,

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right? And then later on that day, we're doing

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journal writing. She says, I don't have anything

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to write about. And he said, darling, you have

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got to be kidding. We're in the middle of probably

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the most memorable events of your life. And you

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had a tooth fall out in your mask. You've got

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plenty to write about. So I love that you're

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doing this, Jay. I love that we're diving in

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to what it feels like. to have childhood experiences.

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I want people to remember, what did it feel like

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to learn to read? I give a lot of seminars to

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teachers on teaching children to read naturalistically

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and through guided reading. And when I begin

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every one of my seminars, I say, I want to hear

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how you learn to read. And as we go around the

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room and talk about how we learn to read, we

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can attach that to all of the different philosophies

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of reading. And there's not a one person that

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says, I learned how to read through a workbook.

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And so let's remember about space and time and

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what children need. The last thing I wanted to

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delve into about what adults need to remember

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about childhood and maybe take from my experience

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of play being so important is understanding not

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to interrupt play. and how disarming it is to

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a child, especially very small children, to interrupt

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their play. It has a sense of breaking into their

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world. It's obstructive and it's nonproductive.

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And so there's some things that I see in classrooms

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happening that interrupt play. One of them is

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when we have early childhood teachers that experience

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play and teaching play through having centers.

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And I have air quotes on that centers. Not a

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good idea. because that's not authentic play.

00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.759
It's not child directed, child chosen. And if

00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.120
you're ringing a little bell and having kids

00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:56.480
rotate through the centers, you've just created

00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.299
worksheet type atmosphere by a different name.

00:16:00.500 --> 00:16:03.139
And there is nothing more disconcerting to a

00:16:03.139 --> 00:16:05.820
child, especially a child who needs play for

00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:09.820
their emotional release to be interrupted. by

00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:12.059
an adult and told you have to do something next.

00:16:12.460 --> 00:16:14.919
In fact, whenever I've done observations of student

00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.360
teachers, that's when children tantrum because

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.299
their play has been interrupted and they don't

00:16:19.299 --> 00:16:21.019
they don't want to move to the Plato table. They

00:16:21.019 --> 00:16:22.840
didn't choose the Plato table. They don't like

00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:25.159
the Plato table. And I was having a great time

00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.000
with the cars. I'm going to show you how displeased

00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.840
I am with you. I'm on the floor. So one of the

00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.440
things that I've developed in my practice is

00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.450
giving children warnings. And now, God, mourning

00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:38.610
actually sounds punitive. What would be a better

00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:41.429
way of saying it? I give them a heads up. I'll

00:16:41.429 --> 00:16:45.669
say, in five minutes, we have to pick up. And

00:16:45.669 --> 00:16:48.210
this is true. I mean, you do have to go to lunch

00:16:48.210 --> 00:16:50.330
at some time. You can't let play go on forever

00:16:50.330 --> 00:16:52.250
when you have 30 children in front of you. But

00:16:52.250 --> 00:16:54.929
what I'll do is be instructive. You'll need to

00:16:54.929 --> 00:16:58.309
finish your story that you've got going, or you'll

00:16:58.309 --> 00:17:00.649
need to get together as a group to decide what

00:17:00.649 --> 00:17:03.690
it's going to feel like tomorrow and children.

00:17:04.089 --> 00:17:08.029
can be taught how to plan for their play so that

00:17:08.029 --> 00:17:11.069
it doesn't feel so disruptive when they do have

00:17:11.069 --> 00:17:14.170
to pick up. And I will tell you, I had so few

00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:16.730
discipline issues in my classroom, even with

00:17:16.730 --> 00:17:20.789
children with their own personal struggles, by

00:17:20.789 --> 00:17:24.170
understanding not to interrupt them when they

00:17:24.170 --> 00:17:27.349
were doing something important and to give them

00:17:27.349 --> 00:17:30.210
the time they needed to finish things. having

00:17:30.210 --> 00:17:33.190
a space in my classroom where you put unfinished

00:17:33.190 --> 00:17:36.289
projects. Now, we did have to have Lego take

00:17:36.289 --> 00:17:38.730
apart day because we get to the point there weren't

00:17:38.730 --> 00:17:41.789
any Legos left. But guess what? I would give

00:17:41.789 --> 00:17:45.329
them like a two day warning and put it up on

00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:48.210
a calendar on Friday. It's Lego take apart day.

00:17:48.230 --> 00:17:50.569
And how does that look? We take apart the Legos.

00:17:50.630 --> 00:17:54.109
We don't have a tantrum. We understand that that's

00:17:54.109 --> 00:17:56.269
the way we have to be in a sharing community.

00:17:56.730 --> 00:18:00.140
Those those kind of interactions between adult

00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:04.200
and child so that it works out well. So the other

00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:08.099
thing that I wanted to talk about this is that

00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:12.339
we have to take all of these things into consideration

00:18:12.339 --> 00:18:16.400
and understand play deeply, but also understand

00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:21.319
what is not play so that it can't be co -opted.

00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:25.559
We have to know that Arranging things for children

00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.720
that are done in playfulness, absolutely fine,

00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:33.599
but it's not play. And the worst is putting a

00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.420
child on a computer that the learning has been

00:18:36.420 --> 00:18:39.440
gamified, like a video game and calling that

00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.220
play. That is not play. And actually we have

00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:46.859
a lot of evidence about brain growth and children

00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:49.079
with immediate feedback and impulse control,

00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.539
how detrimental gamified learning is. for small

00:18:53.539 --> 00:18:55.779
children. And I think probably we're going to

00:18:55.779 --> 00:19:00.000
see that true in the middle grades as well. So

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.920
I want us to understand the importance of play,

00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.519
what it is, what it isn't, to shelter it, to

00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:12.299
honor it, and to help children feel comfortable

00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:15.740
and supported in their worlds through how the

00:19:15.740 --> 00:19:19.900
adults understand play. And if I can leave everybody

00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:22.740
and start engaging with Jay on his reactions

00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:26.240
to what I've had to say, I think one of the most

00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:28.339
horrible things that has happened in education

00:19:28.339 --> 00:19:31.920
is that we have what I call play for some. And

00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:34.859
what I mean about that is a kid in Moneka gets

00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:37.259
to play in kindergarten. There are children in

00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:41.380
Chicago who their kindergarten is nothing. but

00:19:41.380 --> 00:19:44.740
sit at your table and do worksheets or sit in

00:19:44.740 --> 00:19:48.339
isolation and accomplish tasks, especially if

00:19:48.339 --> 00:19:52.779
those tasks are being attached to very small

00:19:52.779 --> 00:19:55.660
incremental standards instead of understanding

00:19:55.660 --> 00:19:58.539
the whole image of a child and the whole needs

00:19:58.539 --> 00:20:03.500
of a child. So I kid with my friends that my

00:20:03.500 --> 00:20:05.920
tombstone I want engraved, she let them play.

00:20:06.710 --> 00:20:09.970
And let's try to build more play advocates and

00:20:09.970 --> 00:20:12.670
more people who understand childhood amnesia

00:20:12.670 --> 00:20:14.990
and understand children through understanding

00:20:14.990 --> 00:20:18.009
their own childhood. So that's my story, Jane.

00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:20.170
Beautiful. You know, I tell my wife, because

00:20:20.170 --> 00:20:23.509
she's an early childhood musician and educator,

00:20:23.670 --> 00:20:26.160
and I always say, The people who should get paid

00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.200
the most in society are early childhood educators

00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.720
because they can do the most damage. So if you

00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:34.039
get the wrong ones, it's no good, you know? And

00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:36.920
I wish I'd have been in your classroom. I had

00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:38.740
a flood of memories come up when you were talking

00:20:38.740 --> 00:20:42.220
because when I was a little boy, I was so afraid

00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:44.119
before I got to kindergarten that I was going

00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:47.980
to fail because I go, I can't, I can't read.

00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:51.630
What am I going to do if I don't learn? My kindergarten

00:20:51.630 --> 00:20:53.529
teacher was good, my mother was good, and she

00:20:53.529 --> 00:20:54.710
said, don't worry about it, don't worry about

00:20:54.710 --> 00:20:57.210
it. And the other memory I think of from what

00:20:57.210 --> 00:20:59.190
you were talking about, there's so many things

00:20:59.190 --> 00:21:02.640
you articulated, but I had a very steady... childhood,

00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:04.480
but one of the most traumatic things that happened

00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.500
to me when I was a boy was that my best friend

00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:08.700
moved when I was five and it really threw me

00:21:08.700 --> 00:21:12.019
off. And then the last thing that really is evocative

00:21:12.019 --> 00:21:15.559
for me is that in my life right now, and ever

00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:18.240
since I was a little boy, but my family knows

00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.160
this, I'm 65 years old, that there are days when

00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.500
I go underneath the covers of my own bed and

00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:28.299
I tell my children and my wife, don't bother

00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:31.579
me, I'm in my house. And what I do is I sit there

00:21:31.579 --> 00:21:34.960
and I read or I think about short stories that

00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.119
I want to write or have read or whatever else.

00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.920
And it sounds sort of weird as a 65 year old

00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:43.940
to confess it, but it's just true. I'd say I'm

00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:46.039
in my house and my children and my wife know,

00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:50.559
leave him alone. He's in his own world. He's

00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.400
thinking about something that he needs. needs

00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:57.079
a little time on that's the point isn't it children

00:21:57.079 --> 00:21:59.720
need we all need our own worlds well that's what

00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.099
i'm thinking i'm i'm one for those little kids

00:22:02.099 --> 00:22:05.400
and unfortunately that's what it what comes out

00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:09.150
of what you're telling me is that I think about

00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:11.630
the kids that don't get that chance, you know,

00:22:11.950 --> 00:22:15.410
to have their space or to be allowed to just

00:22:15.410 --> 00:22:17.430
play around. The fact that you're able to have

00:22:17.430 --> 00:22:19.490
a little cupboard and then have that sort of

00:22:19.490 --> 00:22:21.869
taken from you by the move, which was understandable,

00:22:21.950 --> 00:22:25.329
of course, it is what it is. But for you to understand

00:22:25.329 --> 00:22:29.170
that later, so that childhood amnesia, as I listen

00:22:29.170 --> 00:22:32.700
to you, I just keep thinking. I should read a

00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:34.920
little more Deborah Miller and I should also

00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.259
just sort of incorporate this notion of childhood

00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:40.839
amnesia because it is really important. I know

00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.140
that not just for educators but for parents and

00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:45.400
everybody. You know my wife's got a song where

00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.039
she says all of us were babies once. Oh exactly

00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:53.339
like when we think about who these stories impacted

00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:56.140
it impacts those of us who have no children in

00:22:56.140 --> 00:22:58.119
our lives who are waiting in line at the jewel.

00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.380
tolerating the kid who's having the tantrum because

00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:04.019
they've just had enough and they want that candy

00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:06.039
bar and they put them right there at the height

00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:13.420
of the kid's life. Remembering in our daily encounters

00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:16.019
what it was like to be a child, you know, a couple

00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:18.400
of things before we go that you said that are

00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.319
really important that I'm hoping some other people

00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:23.519
who come on your podcast can talk about friendships.

00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:28.359
how important childhood friendships are. And

00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:31.099
one of the things we try to do when we're constructing

00:23:31.099 --> 00:23:34.660
classrooms at our school is make sure every single

00:23:34.660 --> 00:23:38.160
child has at least two friends in each new configuration

00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:42.099
of a classroom, because it can be very difficult

00:23:42.099 --> 00:23:45.609
for. the first six, eight weeks of school for

00:23:45.609 --> 00:23:48.690
a second grader who's seven, to have an open

00:23:48.690 --> 00:23:51.029
mind to reading and an open heart for what's

00:23:51.029 --> 00:23:53.130
new if they're looking around and there are no

00:23:53.130 --> 00:23:58.309
friends there. And I work on that. trying to

00:23:58.309 --> 00:24:01.029
help friendships and establish friendships as

00:24:01.029 --> 00:24:05.730
the patient and careful adult looking in without

00:24:05.730 --> 00:24:08.390
being too intrusive. There are ways to do it.

00:24:08.690 --> 00:24:10.910
Another thing that you brought up is you know

00:24:10.910 --> 00:24:14.009
that educators can do great harm. I'm not so

00:24:14.009 --> 00:24:16.930
sure it's as true as that the policymakers can

00:24:16.930 --> 00:24:19.349
do the great harm. We have bosses who tell us

00:24:19.349 --> 00:24:22.589
what to do during our day. And if the boss did

00:24:22.589 --> 00:24:25.809
not set up the school correctly or didn't set

00:24:25.809 --> 00:24:29.750
the tone, It's an uphill battle for most educators.

00:24:29.869 --> 00:24:34.009
I am very lucky that at my school, it's a strongly

00:24:34.009 --> 00:24:37.089
structured school with strong unionists, where

00:24:37.089 --> 00:24:40.470
we believe we're a faculty, not a staff. To me,

00:24:40.470 --> 00:24:44.289
what that means is our word goes as the experts.

00:24:44.529 --> 00:24:47.650
When Rahm Emanuel increased the day to seven

00:24:47.650 --> 00:24:50.789
hours and we had an extra day for an extra hour

00:24:50.789 --> 00:24:53.990
for first graders, we were being told what it

00:24:53.990 --> 00:24:57.920
could be. And the first grade team said, it's

00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.160
going to be an hour of self -selected play. And

00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.279
we made our argument for it. We made our argument

00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:04.299
with the LSE, with the parents, and with the

00:25:04.299 --> 00:25:08.160
principal. And we have had an hour of self -selected

00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.900
play for first graders for more than nine years

00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:15.140
now. And it would not have been possible if we

00:25:15.140 --> 00:25:20.539
hadn't been firm in our education ourselves as

00:25:20.539 --> 00:25:24.670
professionals and had solidarity. in our understanding

00:25:24.670 --> 00:25:29.549
of what early childhood is. So we've got to make

00:25:29.549 --> 00:25:33.710
sure that people remember their childhoods, understand

00:25:33.710 --> 00:25:38.190
them, unpack them. And it's part of making this

00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:40.089
world a better place for children and adults

00:25:40.089 --> 00:25:43.470
alike. Well, thank you, Michelle. That was fantastic.

00:25:43.869 --> 00:25:46.470
I felt like I'm in a seminar. You got to teach

00:25:46.470 --> 00:25:50.829
this. I don't know if you teach it. I teach it

00:25:50.829 --> 00:25:55.170
and write it. Absolutely. You got a book about

00:25:55.170 --> 00:25:57.369
it. We need you to write a book about it, too.

00:25:57.789 --> 00:26:01.190
Not yet. Okay. Yep. There's a lot of good out

00:26:01.190 --> 00:26:04.549
there. Well, thank you, Michelle. That was fantastic.

00:26:05.289 --> 00:26:08.150
Very evocative, emotional, and also educational

00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:11.890
for me. So thank you for that. So I'd like to

00:26:11.890 --> 00:26:13.789
thank my friend Michelle Gunderson for coming

00:26:13.789 --> 00:26:18.490
on the show. I'd also like to thank our sponsors,

00:26:18.769 --> 00:26:20.690
Sidelining Publishing, publishers of quality

00:26:20.690 --> 00:26:24.230
books, and laughsaver .com. Visit laughsaver

00:26:24.230 --> 00:26:27.470
.com and record your laughter. It's free and

00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:29.650
we'll keep it for you. I'm going to end this

00:26:29.650 --> 00:26:31.609
show a little differently this week. I'm going

00:26:31.609 --> 00:26:34.910
to end it with Susan Salazar's fine Finkelstein

00:26:34.910 --> 00:26:38.069
in honor of my friend Michelle who sort of helped

00:26:38.069 --> 00:26:40.250
me understand a little bit more the importance

00:26:40.250 --> 00:26:43.509
of not having childhood amnesia. So until next

00:26:43.509 --> 00:26:47.420
time, this is Jay Reheck asking you all... to

00:26:47.420 --> 00:26:50.420
stay safe out there and try not to hurt anybody.

00:27:16.410 --> 00:27:20.529
my name I know that it sounds funny but I like

00:27:20.529 --> 00:27:24.150
it just the same we have lots of things that

00:27:24.150 --> 00:27:27.450
make us different from each other but all of

00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:31.309
us were babies once and that makes us like each

00:27:31.309 --> 00:27:38.329
other my best friend is from Bosnia and his folks

00:27:38.329 --> 00:27:41.849
call him John our mailman's from South Africa

00:27:41.849 --> 00:27:50.900
and And the crossing guard's from Mexico And

00:27:50.900 --> 00:27:55.740
his first name is Juan And I'm fine, Fickle -stein

00:27:55.740 --> 00:27:59.559
And I'm fine about my name I know that it sounds

00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.720
funny But I like it just the same We have lots

00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.880
of things That make us different from each other

00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.759
But all of us were babies once And that makes

00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:17.799
us like each other My family goes to synagogue

00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:21.410
when We would like to pray, but others go to

00:28:21.410 --> 00:28:25.529
churches on Christian holidays. And others pray

00:28:25.529 --> 00:28:28.430
in mosques or temples or under golden doors.

00:28:28.829 --> 00:28:31.650
And there are those whose holy place is nowhere

00:28:31.650 --> 00:28:51.130
else but home. where baby is once and that makes

00:28:51.130 --> 00:28:57.910
us like each other I have a friend who said that

00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:01.730
he is openly adopted and when I asked what do

00:29:01.730 --> 00:29:04.970
you mean he said he's happily co -opted turns

00:29:04.970 --> 00:29:08.789
out my friend is luckier than others I have known

00:29:08.789 --> 00:29:11.609
he's got two moms and will have two moms even

00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:30.410
after he is grown But all of us were babies once

00:29:30.410 --> 00:29:34.970
And that makes us like each other And I'm fine,

00:29:35.069 --> 00:29:39.109
Finkelstein And I'm fine about my name I know

00:29:39.109 --> 00:29:42.809
that it sounds funny But I like it just the same

00:29:42.809 --> 00:29:45.869
We have lots of things That make us different

00:29:45.869 --> 00:29:50.190
from each other But all of us were babies once

00:29:50.190 --> 00:29:53.650
And that makes us like each other But all of

00:29:53.650 --> 00:29:57.569
us were babies once And that makes us like each

00:29:57.569 --> 00:29:58.269
other