WEBVTT

00:00:03.629 --> 00:00:10.369
But share and tell me your memory Why does it

00:00:10.369 --> 00:00:18.210
matter to you? I want to hear your story, your

00:00:18.210 --> 00:00:35.640
point of view Tell me what happened to you back

00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:38.240
to Tell Me What Happened, the podcast that features

00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.679
folks from all walks of life telling us one true

00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:45.579
childhood story and how that event, that experience

00:00:45.579 --> 00:00:48.500
has impacted who they are as an adult. Today

00:00:48.500 --> 00:00:51.179
I have with my guest, Rabbi Alan Sesher. I've

00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:53.640
known the rabbi for probably 20 years or so,

00:00:53.899 --> 00:00:56.000
but he's been a minister for a lot longer than

00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:00.979
that. Rabbi was ordained in 1962. He served pulpits

00:01:00.979 --> 00:01:04.620
in New York, Mexico City, Los Angeles, and Chicago,

00:01:04.980 --> 00:01:08.640
as well as in Montana. The rabbi has worked for

00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:12.060
social justice his whole life. He is the last

00:01:12.060 --> 00:01:17.120
survivor of 16 rabbis who were arrested in 1964

00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:21.159
in St. Augustine. Welcome to the show, Rabbi

00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:26.780
Alan Sessions. Thank you, Jay. That was my mother

00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:32.200
wrote that intro, right? Now, Rabbi, I've known

00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:35.739
you for probably 20 some years due to our relationship

00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:40.040
at the family school at Old St. Pat's. But your

00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:42.939
experience as a rabbi, as a social justice advocate,

00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:47.620
goes back a lot longer than that. I'm ready and

00:01:47.620 --> 00:01:50.359
happy to hear your story, although I know a little

00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:52.879
bit about it and I think it's somewhat sad. But

00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.500
are you ready to tell your childhood story? Oh,

00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:58.980
boy, am I. Let's do it. Let me set the scene

00:01:58.980 --> 00:02:04.140
first, because the place is critical to the action

00:02:04.140 --> 00:02:08.300
itself. I was raised in Butler, Pennsylvania,

00:02:08.659 --> 00:02:13.060
nowadays very famous for the attempted assassination

00:02:13.060 --> 00:02:17.780
of the president. Butler, Pennsylvania was a

00:02:17.780 --> 00:02:23.719
very tough, anti -Semitic town. It was a lot

00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:28.069
of steelworkers and farmers. My parents loved

00:02:28.069 --> 00:02:31.729
the town. I hated it. I couldn't wait to get

00:02:31.729 --> 00:02:36.590
out of the town. I faced anti -Semitism in that

00:02:36.590 --> 00:02:40.789
town for as long as I can remember. When I was

00:02:40.789 --> 00:02:44.289
a little kid, four years old, five years old,

00:02:44.550 --> 00:02:47.909
I was getting brick bats thrown at me, stuff

00:02:47.909 --> 00:02:52.069
thrown at me with Jew bastard on the other side

00:02:52.069 --> 00:02:55.659
of the rock. and many a time I had to run home

00:02:55.659 --> 00:03:00.159
with a busted open head. An incident way back

00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.379
then, I was 10 years old, did not take place

00:03:03.379 --> 00:03:06.939
in Butler. It took place in Meadville, Pennsylvania,

00:03:07.259 --> 00:03:12.759
a similar town to Butler. My parents and I summered

00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:17.120
at Coneyet Lake, Pennsylvania, a resort area

00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:22.020
up north, north. Butler's in almost to the Ohio

00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:26.550
border. And we summered every summer. And one

00:03:26.550 --> 00:03:32.969
day during that time at 10 years old, I got up

00:03:32.969 --> 00:03:36.750
in the morning and had terrible pains in my gut,

00:03:37.409 --> 00:03:41.689
but terrible. And my mother, my father was back

00:03:41.689 --> 00:03:45.550
in Butler, but my mother was there and we jumped

00:03:45.550 --> 00:03:48.569
in the car and raced to the nearest hospital,

00:03:48.949 --> 00:03:53.240
Meanville, Pennsylvania. We pulled into St. Joe's

00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.759
Hospital or St. Andrew's Hospital. It doesn't

00:03:55.759 --> 00:04:00.099
matter, but a Catholic hospital. And what I was

00:04:00.099 --> 00:04:04.379
told was there was no doctor at the hospital,

00:04:04.860 --> 00:04:07.360
no doctor who could treat me. You'll have to

00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.659
go to the public hospital down the street. It

00:04:10.659 --> 00:04:14.159
was clear to the two of us at that time that

00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.120
they were saying we don't treat Jews. That was

00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:21.550
a heavy, heavy experience. All right, now let's

00:04:21.550 --> 00:04:24.829
fast forward to high school. Until my senior

00:04:24.829 --> 00:04:29.649
year, I was the only Jew in my class, period.

00:04:30.389 --> 00:04:35.509
I was it. In the town, there were different groups

00:04:35.509 --> 00:04:39.930
of people. There were the farmer's kids, there

00:04:39.930 --> 00:04:43.629
were the steelworker's kids, there were the townie's

00:04:43.629 --> 00:04:49.290
kids, and I certainly was a townie kid. but not

00:04:49.290 --> 00:04:53.069
complete. For the guys in the town, that was

00:04:53.069 --> 00:04:56.350
all right. I don't think they even bothered with

00:04:56.350 --> 00:04:59.689
my being Jewish. But the females were a whole

00:04:59.689 --> 00:05:06.990
different story. I dated a lovely for a while

00:05:06.990 --> 00:05:11.610
until one day she came to me and said she couldn't

00:05:11.610 --> 00:05:15.250
date me anymore. Why not? Well, I can't date

00:05:15.250 --> 00:05:19.709
you because Jews are drunks. Why are Jews drunks?

00:05:20.250 --> 00:05:24.649
Because they drink wine on Friday night. And

00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:26.949
obviously if they drink wine on Friday night,

00:05:26.949 --> 00:05:30.069
they're drinking all the other nights. I didn't

00:05:30.069 --> 00:05:35.269
know enough to tell her about Jesus and the wine

00:05:35.269 --> 00:05:38.829
and the fishes and so on, but she couldn't date

00:05:38.829 --> 00:05:43.250
me. And that was the case. It was rare that I

00:05:43.250 --> 00:05:47.709
could have a local date. They were told. that

00:05:47.709 --> 00:05:51.750
they were not permitted to date me except in

00:05:51.750 --> 00:05:58.689
my senior year. One lovely lady said, I'm not

00:05:58.689 --> 00:06:02.509
going along with that. There was a big, a fancy

00:06:02.509 --> 00:06:08.410
dance for the Rainbow Girls, which was a Masonic

00:06:08.410 --> 00:06:11.649
girl. There was a fancy formal dance every year

00:06:11.649 --> 00:06:14.850
to which I was never invited. Senior year, she

00:06:14.850 --> 00:06:18.899
said, to hell with that. You're my date. All

00:06:18.899 --> 00:06:23.939
right. All that is background. Now let me tell

00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:27.360
you the incident that was to lead to the incident.

00:06:28.060 --> 00:06:34.000
I was not an athlete as a kid. Oh, I played around

00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.939
with athletes and played a little bit of basketball

00:06:37.939 --> 00:06:43.519
and had a travel team that I managed and ran,

00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:48.600
but I was not an athlete, but I decided I could

00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:52.860
be an athlete. I didn't play football. I tried

00:06:52.860 --> 00:06:56.300
out and was lousy. Didn't play football, didn't

00:06:56.300 --> 00:06:59.639
play basketball for the high school team, didn't

00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:03.300
do swimming. But the one thing that the high

00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:08.300
school did that I knew I could manage was the

00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:13.420
golf team. It was a five man golf team. As a

00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:18.459
kid, I was a pretty good golfer. Certainly not

00:07:18.459 --> 00:07:22.540
as good as the kid golfers today, but I was a

00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:26.959
good golfer in the low eighties and maybe on

00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:31.360
occasion in the seventies, but I was a good golfer

00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:36.699
sophomore year. I was number six on a five man

00:07:36.699 --> 00:07:40.740
team, which made me first alternate, but I never

00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:46.740
got to play the doggone guys. were good and good.

00:07:47.819 --> 00:07:51.379
And I never got the play. I think I traveled

00:07:51.379 --> 00:07:55.319
to one meet, but I never got the play. Between

00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:59.300
sophomore and junior year, I improved my golf

00:07:59.300 --> 00:08:02.879
enormously. My father was in the wholesale food

00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:06.220
business and we lived upstairs from his warehouse.

00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:12.699
I established a net in the warehouse and I would

00:08:12.699 --> 00:08:18.620
come down almost nightly to practice and I got

00:08:18.620 --> 00:08:23.139
better. It's now junior year and there's an announcement

00:08:23.139 --> 00:08:28.579
in the school announcing that said candidates

00:08:28.579 --> 00:08:33.000
for the golf team please show up at the coach's

00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.480
office to arrange for physicals. The coach was

00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:42.379
a woman Uh, she was the chemistry teacher and

00:08:42.379 --> 00:08:45.940
I was the first guy at her door and she answers

00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:50.659
the door and conversation went almost exactly

00:08:50.659 --> 00:08:55.039
like this. Oh, Alan, I've been meaning to tell

00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:58.299
you we can only have five players this year,

00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:02.340
but Ms. Critchlow, you know, and I know that

00:09:02.340 --> 00:09:05.759
I'm due to be at least number three and maybe

00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.409
I could challenge to be number two. No, Alan,

00:09:09.529 --> 00:09:12.870
we're only allowed five players this year. But

00:09:12.870 --> 00:09:17.049
Miss Critchlow, I can be one of those players.

00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:20.950
No, Alan, we're only allowed five players. I'm

00:09:20.950 --> 00:09:24.730
sorry about that. Well, the light turns on in

00:09:24.730 --> 00:09:28.970
my head that Miss Critchlow was trying to say

00:09:28.970 --> 00:09:33.549
to me, the members of the country club have told

00:09:33.549 --> 00:09:38.769
me no Jews allowed. The country club was restricted.

00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:44.490
And I was devastated. This was my chance to become

00:09:44.490 --> 00:09:51.269
a high school hero. I never made it. OK, we unfortunately

00:09:51.269 --> 00:09:56.070
we didn't appeal to the school board. But the

00:09:56.070 --> 00:10:00.669
experience was indelible. Just absolutely indelible,

00:10:00.750 --> 00:10:03.990
and it controlled my life. It still controls

00:10:03.990 --> 00:10:08.539
my life where I can. tell this story without

00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:15.399
taking a beat, because I don't say I repeat it

00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:20.000
every morning while lying in bed, but I know

00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:25.279
the experience and I know it well. And I guess

00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:32.340
that pushed me in those days to say this is unacceptable,

00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:36.509
that somebody should be treated third class,

00:10:36.629 --> 00:10:43.350
fourth class. And so from then on in that peppered

00:10:43.350 --> 00:10:47.549
my experience in civil rights so that it has

00:10:47.549 --> 00:10:51.049
meant the rest of my life seeing to it that nobody

00:10:51.049 --> 00:10:55.850
has to face what I did as a kid. To me as a kid,

00:10:55.850 --> 00:11:01.570
that was horrible. I'll tell you, because this

00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:06.899
podcast is not determined by the FCC, a small

00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:11.860
bit that I did. My 60th birthday, I decided I

00:11:11.860 --> 00:11:15.679
want to go back to Butler. I was living at that

00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:19.720
point here in Chicago and I decided I want to

00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:23.000
go back to Butler and experience, experience

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:26.600
the barber and the grade school and the YMCA,

00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.720
the places that I hung out at and So I decided

00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.840
there was something important for me to do. So

00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:40.960
I drove out to the country club, which was about

00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:44.340
five or six miles outside of town. But I drove

00:11:44.340 --> 00:11:47.980
out to the country club and the country club

00:11:47.980 --> 00:11:51.480
at this point, by the way, was integrated. They

00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.759
needed Jewish money, but the country club was

00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:59.340
integrated. I walked. onto the golf course and

00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:03.279
I pissed on the 18th green. It was just my way

00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.299
of expression to the wonderful people that had

00:12:07.299 --> 00:12:12.360
denied me that. You know, some like 45 years

00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:16.460
earlier for the rest of my life since that experience

00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:20.740
in high school has been fighting pretty hard

00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:23.879
to see to it. Nobody has that experience again.

00:12:24.179 --> 00:12:28.970
Now, it's not the case. It's not the case. It's

00:12:28.970 --> 00:12:32.970
not the case. Look at anti -Semitism today and

00:12:32.970 --> 00:12:37.289
the experience of it all. Look at anti -racist

00:12:37.289 --> 00:12:41.690
or racist experience today. It's not the case.

00:12:42.009 --> 00:12:46.330
But if I can just be a little bit of help, I'm

00:12:46.330 --> 00:12:49.909
91 years old, but I'm still at it. At least my

00:12:49.909 --> 00:12:53.509
head's in good shape. Even if my body's good

00:12:53.509 --> 00:12:57.289
and old. So, Jay, I think that's the experience.

00:12:57.509 --> 00:13:00.929
I don't know how long that took. Well said. And

00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:02.929
I'm sorry that you went through all that. The

00:13:02.929 --> 00:13:05.470
country club was the place that your team must

00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:08.330
have been practicing or played their games. Is

00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:12.210
that right? That's both clarification. They practice

00:13:12.210 --> 00:13:16.850
at the country club and their matches were off

00:13:16.850 --> 00:13:20.389
the time like any other athlete half the time

00:13:20.389 --> 00:13:23.539
at the country club. Well, you've sort of already

00:13:23.539 --> 00:13:25.480
answered the question I was going to ask you,

00:13:25.539 --> 00:13:28.200
which is how that experience has impacted your

00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.279
life, because I think subsequently you've already

00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.659
said that you sort of dedicated your life to

00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:36.759
fighting anti -Semitism and the larger issues

00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:41.299
of exclusion that involves race and other elements

00:13:41.299 --> 00:13:44.519
of human society. You want to add anything to

00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.679
that, how it's impacted your life now? I'm thinking

00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:53.279
as you're talking to me of a small example, okay?

00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:58.960
I was jailed along with 16 other, 15 other rabbis.

00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:03.679
I was jailed with 15 other rabbis and a layman

00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:12.240
at a demonstration in June of 1964 in St. Augustine,

00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:16.080
Florida. We came at the request of Martin Luther

00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:21.340
King. By the way, I was jailed twice. I was jailed

00:14:21.340 --> 00:14:28.059
in Albany, Georgia in 1962 and jailed in 64 in

00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:31.779
St. Augustine, Florida. And what was the impetus?

00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:36.120
The impetus was that the blacks of the community

00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:42.539
were third grade. And as an example, the blacks

00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:46.460
were not permitted to use sections of the beach

00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:52.500
in St. Augustine. just not permitted. And when

00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:56.220
we, after this experience, when we went back

00:14:56.220 --> 00:15:00.879
for the 50th anniversary, which was in 2014,

00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:05.220
and at that point there were only six members

00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:08.840
of that team still alive. When we went back,

00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:12.360
I went to the beach, I wanted to see what had

00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:16.019
happened. And there was a black fellow with his

00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:20.240
daughter sitting on the beach. And I walked up

00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:23.519
to him and I said, do you know how it happens?

00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:28.759
Did you're here? And he had no idea. So I spent

00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.639
a few minutes with him telling him, but to see

00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:38.700
to it that that fellow had access to everything

00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:43.820
was absolutely the same thing as my having access

00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:47.840
to the high school golf team. Same, same story.

00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:52.159
He was just black. The Jewish community in St.

00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:56.399
Augustine is different. They're semi, I guess,

00:15:56.820 --> 00:16:00.059
I can't say semi integrated. They're they're

00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:04.039
more or less integrated. OK, but here's this

00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:09.259
fellow and the experience in St. Augustine was

00:16:09.259 --> 00:16:13.440
so memorable that can I tell a little bit of

00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:17.519
this story? Does it fit? Well, we got about three

00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:20.919
minutes, so. Oh, all right. The experience in

00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:25.840
St. Augustine, Florida, was responsible for President

00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:31.100
Johnson pushing the 1964 Civil Rights Act. He

00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:34.399
was so moved by what had happened with us that

00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:37.440
he pushed it. And a short time after we were

00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:41.120
there, the Civil Rights Act. I'm really proud

00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:45.059
that I had a little touch of history to be proud

00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:48.019
of. Well, you've done a lot, Alan. I know that.

00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:49.740
And, you know, we're not going to be able to

00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:54.299
get into the interfaith discussion today, which

00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:56.779
is where I met you at, at the old St. Pat's.

00:16:56.860 --> 00:16:59.820
We don't have time for that, but I do want to

00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:04.289
thank you as a fellow human being. Someone that

00:17:04.289 --> 00:17:08.789
you have also ministered to. Thank you for your

00:17:08.789 --> 00:17:11.609
leadership in terms of social justice. I think

00:17:11.609 --> 00:17:13.730
that it's really, really important that there

00:17:13.730 --> 00:17:16.529
are men and women and people who stick their

00:17:16.529 --> 00:17:20.390
necks out and say this isn't right. And I'm glad

00:17:20.390 --> 00:17:23.390
you were one of those. People back in the 60s

00:17:23.390 --> 00:17:28.250
and 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s all left it today. And

00:17:28.250 --> 00:17:30.609
you keep doing it. So I appreciate that. And

00:17:30.609 --> 00:17:33.390
the world does too, even if we don't say it enough.

00:17:34.269 --> 00:17:36.789
So thank you for coming on the show, Rabbi Alan

00:17:36.789 --> 00:17:40.089
Sesscher. I loved it, Jay. Thank you for having

00:17:40.089 --> 00:17:44.349
me. All right. Well, that's our show. We did

00:17:44.349 --> 00:17:46.809
it. We did it. Thank you, Alan. I told you I

00:17:46.809 --> 00:17:49.130
couldn't say my name in less than 20 minutes.

00:17:50.860 --> 00:17:54.619
I'd like to thank our sponsors, Sidelining Publishing,

00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.619
publishers of quality books, and the newest 10

00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:00.940
by 10 black hole chess. If you're interested

00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:04.720
in playing chess in a new way, check out blackholechess

00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:09.180
.com because E4 does not work as an opening move

00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:12.539
in that game. So until next time, this is Jay

00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:15.140
Rehack asking you all to please stay safe out

00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:17.119
there and try not to hurt anybody.