WEBVTT 00:00:03.629 --> 00:00:11.050 But share and tell me a memory Why does it matter 00:00:11.050 --> 00:00:18.649 to you? I want to hear your story Your point 00:00:18.649 --> 00:00:37.859 of view Tell me what happened to you And welcome 00:00:37.859 --> 00:00:40.659 back to Tell Me What Happened, the podcast that 00:00:40.659 --> 00:00:43.299 features folks from all walks of life telling 00:00:43.299 --> 00:00:47.219 us one true childhood story, and how that story, 00:00:47.340 --> 00:00:50.020 how that event, how that experience has impacted 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:53.539 who they are as an adult. I'm your host, Jay 00:00:53.539 --> 00:00:57.240 Rehack, and like you, I've had all kinds of childhood 00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.600 experiences that impacted who I am. But I'd like 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:02.380 to think that everything that ever happened to 00:01:02.380 --> 00:01:05.939 me has made me a better person. I'm not saying 00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:08.680 that's actually true, but that's what I'd like 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:13.519 to think. Today is the first day of season five 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.480 of Tell Me What Happened, and I'm extremely happy 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.060 to have a good friend of mine, a man I've known 00:01:19.060 --> 00:01:21.280 for, I'm going to say 20 years, but maybe that's 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:25.359 not quite right, David Kovacs. David has been 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:27.739 a Chicago -based writer of scripts for videos, 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:31.819 films, and plays for more than 40 years. He and 00:01:31.819 --> 00:01:34.280 his wife Patti, who I also happen to know quite 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:37.299 well, have also been involved in interfaith dialogue 00:01:37.299 --> 00:01:41.239 and are two of the founders of the Chicago Interfaith 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.280 Family School. David has always been fascinated 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:46.980 by how the media, spirituality, and learning 00:01:46.980 --> 00:01:49.819 can intersect in ways that intrigue and involve 00:01:49.819 --> 00:01:53.099 audiences. One of his first script writing positions 00:01:53.099 --> 00:01:56.459 was in the 1970s with the Emmy -winning children's 00:01:56.459 --> 00:02:00.719 program, The Magic Door. produced by WBBM -TD 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:04.719 and the Chicago Board of Rabbis. In 2019, a documentary 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:08.560 he co -produced, Leaps of Faiths, premiered on 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:12.000 WTTW and at the Chicago Jewish Film Festival. 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:15.960 Available online, the movie explores the joys, 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:18.539 challenges, and mysteries of interfaith marriage. 00:02:19.379 --> 00:02:22.960 Welcome to the show, David Kovacs. Hey Jay, it's 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.860 so nice to be with you. Thanks for inviting me. 00:02:26.379 --> 00:02:28.819 David, we ran into each other. about two months 00:02:28.819 --> 00:02:32.020 ago during a Hanukkah celebration at Old St. 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:35.580 Pat's in Chicago. And at the time, I told you 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:38.319 about season five. We're looking for great guests. 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.139 And you were kind enough to be willing to come 00:02:41.139 --> 00:02:46.060 on the show. So, David, quick question, and we're 00:02:46.060 --> 00:02:48.159 gonna get on with it. Are you ready to tell your 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:53.240 story? I am. Okay. Well, I had a really very 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:55.479 good childhood. There was so much of it that 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:59.560 was really a blessing to me and my sister and 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:03.139 my mom and dad in so many ways. But I think the 00:03:03.139 --> 00:03:07.780 telling event in my childhood... was due to my 00:03:07.780 --> 00:03:11.139 father's illness. He had what was called reactive 00:03:11.139 --> 00:03:13.560 depression in those days, but I'm pretty sure 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.939 it was bipolar disorder. And around when I was 00:03:16.939 --> 00:03:21.199 10, he started to feel some stresses and strains 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.520 emotionally and mentally. This led to a couple 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:26.879 of years of therapy and then a couple of years 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:29.360 in and out of the psychiatric institute at the 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:32.099 old Michael Reese Hospital. And ultimately, he 00:03:32.099 --> 00:03:35.460 committed suicide and it was on my 14th birthday. 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.759 I'm convinced that he didn't remember that it 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:42.280 was my birthday, but it of course profoundly 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.000 affected me. Later a therapist said, this is 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.280 my father who jumped off a building, he said 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:52.599 maybe he thought he could fly and maybe his whole... 00:03:52.569 --> 00:03:56.150 way of looking at life was just too much for 00:03:56.150 --> 00:03:59.990 him to bear. And of course, this was in 1966. 00:04:00.509 --> 00:04:04.110 There were very few medications for what he had. 00:04:04.370 --> 00:04:06.669 Lithium, he was in a lithium trial. There was 00:04:06.669 --> 00:04:10.330 electroshock therapy, but his outlook was pretty 00:04:10.330 --> 00:04:12.830 grim. Today, of course, there's many therapies 00:04:12.830 --> 00:04:16.009 for bipolar disorder. But I, of course, it was 00:04:16.009 --> 00:04:19.399 a savage blow for... my mother, my sister, and 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:21.980 I. But the thing that I most remember about it 00:04:21.980 --> 00:04:26.060 was going to see his psychiatrist who said to 00:04:26.060 --> 00:04:28.819 my sister and I, well, there's two ways you can 00:04:28.819 --> 00:04:32.079 look at this. One way for the rest of your life. 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:36.699 One way is to say, well, everything that challenges 00:04:36.699 --> 00:04:40.180 me or that defeats me as I grow up is because 00:04:40.180 --> 00:04:43.639 my father committed suicide. Or you could say, 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.819 I got through this, I can get through anything. 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:49.579 Well, the more I thought about it, the more I 00:04:49.579 --> 00:04:53.480 chose door number two. And I resolved that I 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:55.980 could get through anything. But of course, I'm 00:04:55.980 --> 00:04:59.560 14. You know, I don't know what life has in store 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.220 for me. And it was a big question mark. How will 00:05:03.220 --> 00:05:08.259 I get through everything? And so that's the impact 00:05:08.259 --> 00:05:12.660 that that experience had. And I know you're going 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:14.860 to ask me how it affected my life as an adult. 00:05:14.860 --> 00:05:18.250 And that's probably what you want to ask. It 00:05:18.250 --> 00:05:21.990 really is. I gotta take a minute and get myself 00:05:21.990 --> 00:05:24.329 together. I've never experienced what you've 00:05:24.329 --> 00:05:28.649 experienced by any imagination, but I've experienced 00:05:28.649 --> 00:05:31.269 it close. I've had close relatives and others 00:05:31.269 --> 00:05:35.029 that have taken their lives, and I struggle with 00:05:35.029 --> 00:05:37.889 even understanding how anybody can recover and 00:05:37.889 --> 00:05:40.850 keep going. But I do have to ask you the question, 00:05:41.250 --> 00:05:43.829 which is my question from the show, which is, 00:05:44.050 --> 00:05:47.550 how do you think that horrific event impacted 00:05:47.550 --> 00:05:50.290 who you are today? Well, I thought about that 00:05:50.290 --> 00:05:53.350 a lot. And before I get into it, I just want 00:05:53.350 --> 00:05:55.990 to say to anybody who's had the experience of 00:05:55.990 --> 00:05:58.730 losing someone to suicide, a friend and their 00:05:58.730 --> 00:06:02.230 family, my heart is out to you. It is one of 00:06:02.230 --> 00:06:05.589 the most devastating experiences one can go through. 00:06:05.889 --> 00:06:09.269 And I hope that you, if it's happened to you, 00:06:09.449 --> 00:06:14.350 have found strength. So. Ironically, I went off 00:06:14.350 --> 00:06:17.370 to college and I came back to Chicago. This is 00:06:17.370 --> 00:06:20.610 in the 1970s. I was a theater major and I'm coming 00:06:20.610 --> 00:06:23.769 back to Chicago and I'm doing shows in off -loop 00:06:23.769 --> 00:06:27.889 theaters and just trying to figure out how I'm 00:06:27.889 --> 00:06:30.910 going to make it through my 20s and sketch comedy 00:06:30.910 --> 00:06:35.709 and plays and maybe some writing. And it's a 00:06:35.709 --> 00:06:40.129 very challenging thing. And I can get through 00:06:40.129 --> 00:06:43.350 anything. I struggled with that a lot. But I 00:06:43.350 --> 00:06:46.649 had a lot of great feedback. I met some wonderful 00:06:46.649 --> 00:06:49.069 people. And I said, this is the life for me. 00:06:49.170 --> 00:06:51.310 I'm going to figure out how I'm going to do this. 00:06:51.490 --> 00:06:58.050 So I go ahead. And the writing. takes the precedence 00:06:58.050 --> 00:07:00.329 over the acting. And I said, I really want to 00:07:00.329 --> 00:07:03.050 explore what this writing is. And I get a job 00:07:03.050 --> 00:07:05.430 with a children's TV show that's produced in 00:07:05.430 --> 00:07:08.230 Chicago. Now in the 70s, there was Bozo Circus, 00:07:08.569 --> 00:07:11.550 there was BJ Dirty Dragon, and there was The 00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:14.629 Magic Door on Channel 2. Those were the locally 00:07:14.629 --> 00:07:19.100 produced shows for kids. And the Magic Door was 00:07:19.100 --> 00:07:22.100 produced by the Board of Rabbis. It was a half 00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:24.839 -hour puppet show with a little guy named Tiny 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.019 Tov, which means little good guy, and they shot 00:07:28.019 --> 00:07:31.379 him down on a chroma key. So he was little, and 00:07:31.379 --> 00:07:34.720 he could talk to the puppets. And what was amazing 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.319 about that was I could write a half -hour script, 00:07:38.379 --> 00:07:43.379 which I got $125 for. In those days, even that 00:07:43.379 --> 00:07:46.560 wasn't very much. But it was the magic door to 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:50.220 my career because the voiceovers over the puppets 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:55.120 were people who spent their lives doing industrial 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:59.860 films and voiceovers and commercials. And they 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:02.819 picked up something in what I was writing that 00:08:02.819 --> 00:08:05.800 said, do you want to get paid for writing professionally? 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:07.800 And they mentored me into the business. And God 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.449 bless. all the mentors out there who have helped 00:08:10.449 --> 00:08:12.790 people along because I don't know where I'd be 00:08:12.790 --> 00:08:14.990 without them. But what was interesting, Jay, 00:08:15.230 --> 00:08:18.769 is I had grown up Jewish, reformed you. I didn't 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:21.689 even get a bar mitzvah because when I was 13, 00:08:21.810 --> 00:08:23.649 which is traditional bar mitzvah age, my dad 00:08:23.649 --> 00:08:25.389 was in and out of the hospital. I didn't want 00:08:25.389 --> 00:08:29.149 to do that. But here comes my Judaism back into 00:08:29.149 --> 00:08:32.909 this writing for television thing. And I just 00:08:32.909 --> 00:08:36.149 kind of rode with it. And I said, I'm going to. 00:08:36.429 --> 00:08:40.009 take this as far as it can go. Well then, I meet 00:08:40.009 --> 00:08:43.250 this wonderful woman, Patti, Patti Russ. She 00:08:43.250 --> 00:08:46.070 was an actress. We met through theater. And Patti 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:50.230 is Catholic, and I'm Jewish. And I'm going, okay, 00:08:50.929 --> 00:08:54.129 I think this is kind of interesting. It may be 00:08:54.129 --> 00:08:56.190 a little hard. We talked to rabbis who said, 00:08:56.330 --> 00:08:59.110 don't do it. One rabbi, in fact, said, David, 00:08:59.289 --> 00:09:01.169 I think Patti probably goes to mass more than 00:09:01.169 --> 00:09:03.950 you go to temple. I said, yeah. She said, well, 00:09:03.950 --> 00:09:06.220 why don't you just raise your kids Catholic, 00:09:06.779 --> 00:09:09.799 the Jews will be fine without you. And I so I 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.399 kind of abandoned him as a spiritual consultant. 00:09:13.100 --> 00:09:18.100 But Patty got me hooked into this amazing community 00:09:18.100 --> 00:09:20.799 at Old St. Patrick's Church, which had just been 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:23.360 revitalized in the 80s. And she was teaching 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:25.360 at the Chicago Academy for the Arts, which rented 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.460 space from them. And we sat down with Father 00:09:28.460 --> 00:09:33.090 John Cusick, who said, basically, he said, you're 00:09:33.090 --> 00:09:35.529 in love, you're in God, I'm in the God business, 00:09:35.590 --> 00:09:39.149 how can I help you? And we said, well, we're 00:09:39.149 --> 00:09:40.929 trying to figure this out. And he said, you know, 00:09:40.929 --> 00:09:44.350 I've been thinking about starting a group of 00:09:44.350 --> 00:09:46.509 Jewish and Catholic couples. And that became 00:09:46.509 --> 00:09:48.750 the Jewish Catholic Dialogue Group and the Family 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:52.250 School, which the, you mentioned, you and Susan 00:09:52.250 --> 00:09:54.629 were, and your daughters were part of it for 00:09:54.629 --> 00:09:58.289 so many years, became such a big part of our 00:09:58.289 --> 00:10:01.529 lives, we said, We can get together with other 00:10:01.529 --> 00:10:04.330 families and we can teach our kids the great 00:10:04.330 --> 00:10:07.429 traditions of Judaism and Christianity. And we 00:10:07.429 --> 00:10:10.450 can do it as a Sunday school and maybe we can 00:10:10.450 --> 00:10:13.690 make this work. Well, that was 32 years ago. 00:10:13.789 --> 00:10:17.129 It's been part of our lives. ever since, and 00:10:17.129 --> 00:10:19.850 we're still very happy to be doing it. And you 00:10:19.850 --> 00:10:24.090 and Susan, your wife, who sings for our services 00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:28.029 so beautifully. And no, we've made wonderful 00:10:28.029 --> 00:10:30.450 friends through this. But here comes religion 00:10:30.450 --> 00:10:34.669 back into my life. And I didn't imagine that 00:10:34.669 --> 00:10:39.470 I would enjoy it so much. And it answered the 00:10:39.470 --> 00:10:41.889 question for me. I can get through this. I can 00:10:41.889 --> 00:10:44.870 get through anything because religion has a pediatric 00:10:44.870 --> 00:10:47.950 dimension. of Sunday school and growing up and 00:10:47.950 --> 00:10:50.250 all that, and it has an adult dimension. And 00:10:50.250 --> 00:10:53.409 religion is very different as an adult. You kind 00:10:53.409 --> 00:10:56.250 of go, what do you do when life hits you in the 00:10:56.250 --> 00:10:59.190 gut? Where do you go? Who do you turn to? What's 00:10:59.190 --> 00:11:02.429 your community? Where's something, a sense of 00:11:02.429 --> 00:11:06.409 something larger than what you are? And so I 00:11:06.409 --> 00:11:09.830 kind of re -encountered religion on an entirely 00:11:09.830 --> 00:11:13.570 different level. And I've gotten so much out 00:11:13.570 --> 00:11:16.269 of it that, yes, I think I got through that. 00:11:16.370 --> 00:11:19.889 I can get through anything. And it's been tremendously 00:11:19.889 --> 00:11:23.750 rewarding. Still amazing. Like I say, you know, 00:11:23.809 --> 00:11:27.809 I was a part of the family school back in the 00:11:27.809 --> 00:11:30.309 day. And this is a little bit of a digression, 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:31.950 but, you know, you and Patty were definitely 00:11:31.950 --> 00:11:33.830 inspirational. I know you actually helped create 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:36.769 the entire program that that, you know, I was 00:11:36.769 --> 00:11:38.710 a part of what my children were a part of for 00:11:38.710 --> 00:11:43.100 a long time. And my Hard question to you, I've 00:11:43.100 --> 00:11:47.759 already sort of asked it, but do you think that 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.679 your faith helped put you through what you went 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:54.559 through or, I mean, it could also be just that 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.740 you married a wonderful woman and that could 00:11:56.740 --> 00:11:58.960 be it too, you know what I'm saying, was it? 00:11:59.299 --> 00:12:02.210 No, I'm not in any way. denigrating formal religion, 00:12:02.389 --> 00:12:04.129 but I probably shouldn't even be asking this 00:12:04.129 --> 00:12:06.750 question, but you think it's, it was Judaism 00:12:06.750 --> 00:12:09.830 or you think it was Patti Kovacs or a combination 00:12:09.830 --> 00:12:12.750 of both? It's a great question. I think what 00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:16.289 we've done and what you and hundreds, literally 00:12:16.289 --> 00:12:19.210 hundreds of other couples have done is we've 00:12:19.210 --> 00:12:22.539 seen the other faith that we didn't grow up with 00:12:22.539 --> 00:12:24.980 in a new light, and we've relearned the faith 00:12:24.980 --> 00:12:28.539 that we did grow up with. Definitely, when everything 00:12:28.539 --> 00:12:31.820 came down on me in my teens, I never thought 00:12:31.820 --> 00:12:35.399 religion would be a help to any of this. I thought 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:38.200 theater would. I thought writing might. I thought 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:41.519 maybe television might. That was what I got up 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.860 and got me going in the morning is thinking about 00:12:44.860 --> 00:12:48.399 how can I write the next thing or create the 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:55.000 next program or whatever. But I think that having 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.799 two religions in your life is like speaking two 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:01.720 languages or growing up interculturally. You 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:06.519 are endlessly challenged because great religion 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:11.399 is a great search for truth. is bigger than us. 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:14.679 And John Cusick gave us the metaphor for it. 00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:18.480 It's like it's a lens to look at life. And I 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.980 think I've got two pairs of glasses. I've got 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:23.179 my night driving glasses and my day driving glasses 00:13:23.179 --> 00:13:26.000 and my reading glasses. And sometimes I look 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.220 at life through a Jewish lens and sometimes I 00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:31.360 look at it through a Catholic lens. And I never 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.019 thought that I would find anything meaningful 00:13:35.019 --> 00:13:38.500 in that respect. And it's just continued to surprise 00:13:38.500 --> 00:13:41.789 me. That's so cool. This is really about you 00:13:41.789 --> 00:13:44.090 and not about me, but I just have to interject 00:13:44.090 --> 00:13:47.429 one point, which was when my wife went to her 00:13:47.429 --> 00:13:50.730 rabbi. He said, forget it. Just don't do it. 00:13:51.409 --> 00:13:54.509 And we still went through it. But then when we 00:13:54.509 --> 00:13:56.789 met your group, I say your group because you 00:13:56.789 --> 00:13:58.710 created it. You helped create it. You were a 00:13:58.710 --> 00:14:01.809 founder. I was like, oh yeah, there are people 00:14:01.809 --> 00:14:04.269 out there. You know, it's not just Susan and 00:14:04.269 --> 00:14:06.129 I against the world type thing. I mean, I kind 00:14:06.129 --> 00:14:08.220 of knew that, but there was no actual, I don't 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:10.720 know if there's an actual group of cool, I call 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.519 them cool people, but maybe that's a little bit 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:17.820 of a... That's a judgment call. But anyway, to 00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:20.340 meet people who are of like mind, who are trying 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:23.940 to figure out how do we raise our children in 00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:27.419 a way that is ethically responsible and also 00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:29.919 respectful of each other's religion. When I got 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:32.120 married, neither one of us wanted to convert. 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:34.240 That was just, you know, I was a little bit too 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:37.240 Catholic or whatever that word is. Her Judaism 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.120 was, you know... real and intense and it's like 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:42.899 now we're not going to change we can respect 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:45.240 both each other's religion but it was great to 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.059 get to family school because We're stronger than 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:50.320 with the kids, because that's the hard question 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:52.500 usually of how you're going to raise the kids. 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:55.200 Right. And I would say to any of your listeners 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.100 who are interested in what this family school 00:14:57.100 --> 00:15:00.879 is, go online, check out our website. We're welcoming. 00:15:01.820 --> 00:15:05.080 So many people are marrying interfaith and marrying 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:08.440 interculturally. We welcome anybody. You don't 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.080 have to be Catholic. It's Jewish and Christian. 00:15:11.299 --> 00:15:15.500 We've even had some people who are totally atheist 00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:18.990 and agnostic. and they're welcome too. And we 00:15:18.990 --> 00:15:21.549 just think all religion is interesting. In fact, 00:15:21.690 --> 00:15:24.429 we made a documentary, you mentioned the documentary 00:15:24.429 --> 00:15:27.549 that was on Channel 11, Leaps of Faiths. And 00:15:27.549 --> 00:15:29.629 it is confusing because there's Leaps of Faith, 00:15:29.750 --> 00:15:32.000 which is another. But there's two S's, leaps 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.539 and faiths, and it's online. It's on Amazon. 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.799 We're going to repost it on YouTube shortly. 00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:41.039 But this gets into the questions of how do you 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:42.639 make it work in a marriage? How do you raise 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.940 the kids? What does this mean for Judaism? Is 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:48.220 Judaism going to survive this? I think Judaism 00:15:48.220 --> 00:15:51.159 is going to thrive with this because it allows 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:54.399 people to honor their partner's religion without 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:59.230 asking them to necessarily convert. opens eyes 00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:02.529 and the kids love it because there's other kids 00:16:02.529 --> 00:16:06.029 and And for them to they grumble about getting 00:16:06.029 --> 00:16:08.970 up on Sunday morning They always did but they 00:16:08.970 --> 00:16:11.350 love it when they get there and by the time there 00:16:11.350 --> 00:16:13.990 is graders Their eyes have been opened and they 00:16:13.990 --> 00:16:16.850 get it and they're ready to go out into the world 00:16:16.850 --> 00:16:20.350 Well, thank you for coming on this show David 00:16:20.350 --> 00:16:23.370 and telling us that profoundly sad story that 00:16:24.049 --> 00:16:28.330 In the end, the resurrection in my hand. I'll 00:16:28.330 --> 00:16:32.309 go there with it. Relax. I hope the right word 00:16:32.309 --> 00:16:34.049 is, that may sound a little bit too Christian, 00:16:34.490 --> 00:16:37.230 but the point is that you thrive, you survive, 00:16:37.669 --> 00:16:40.830 you made it through. It's amazing. I'm always 00:16:40.830 --> 00:16:43.409 impressed with strong people. So anyway, thank 00:16:43.409 --> 00:16:45.129 you for coming on the show. Thank you for having 00:16:45.129 --> 00:16:47.409 me. All right, folks. Well, that's our show. 00:16:47.830 --> 00:16:50.250 Like, again, thank David Kovacs for his profound 00:16:50.250 --> 00:16:53.059 story. I'd like to thank my sponsor, Sightlining 00:16:53.059 --> 00:16:57.519 Publishing, publishers of quality books and creator 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:03.379 of the new 10 by 10 Black Hole Chess game. If 00:17:03.379 --> 00:17:07.140 you're interested, check out blackholechess .com 00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.519 and learn a new way to play the game because 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:14.019 pawn to e4 does not work in my game. Alright, 00:17:14.299 --> 00:17:17.640 until next time, this is Jay React asking you 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.180 all to please stay safe out there and try not 00:17:20.180 --> 00:17:20.880 to hurt anybody.