Pull up a chair and tell me your memory Why does it matter to you?
I want to hear your story, your point of view Tell me what happened to you
Hi and welcome back to Tell Me What Happened, the podcast that features folks from all walks of life
telling us one true childhood event and how that moment, that experience has impacted who they are today
I'm your host Jay Rehak and like you I've had my share of childhood experiences
Some of them quite painful and some of them quite beautiful
But I'd like to think that everything that's ever happened to me has made me a better person
Now that might not be true, but that's what I'd like to think
Tell me what happened is sponsored by Side Line Ink Publishing, publishers of quality books
including Susan Salador's classic I've Got Peace in My Fingers and One the Lact of Kindness
Both of them are available wherever quality books are sold
Alright, today I have as my guest a very special person, a person I've known since the moment she was born
One of my favorite people in the entire world, Hannah Rehak
Hannah is a comedian, a podcaster and a writer from Chicago
And she's also my daughter
Welcome to the show, Hannah Rehak
Hi Dad, hello
Hannah, I won't call you bud which is my nickname for you
Alright Hannah, are you ready to tell your story?
Yeah
Alright, I'm going to get out of the way
And at the end I'm going to ask you absolutely one question
And that one question is this
How do you think what you're telling me or what you told me has impacted who you are as an adult?
So I'm going to meet myself, take it away, Hannah Rehak
So I was thinking really hard about what story I should tell
Because you actually know most of my stories, even my fairly traumatic or upsetting ones
Or you know some of the good ones too
This is a story that I've never told because it's one that I like barely count as a story
So I hope I don't break your form right now by giving you the details I remember
But I have this memory that I thought I would share which is that
I went to Sleep Away summer camp two summers of my life
The first time for a week and the second time for two weeks
So the first summer is the summer during which this story takes place
And it's kind of a classic tale of making fast and intense friendships
As is the case for so many people who go to summer camp
You know you get thrown into this really intense dynamic and it becomes your whole life
And I've always been somebody who's pretty prone to that kind of lifestyle
Like I really enjoy whatever, theater productions where your cast becomes your family
Or again like summer camp where suddenly that's your whole life
I think there are some people who don't like that kind of thing
But I've always really liked it and this is one of my first memories of that kind of situation
Where it's like we're all in a cabin, you meet these new people and they become your best friends
For what I now realize is only like five days because it's summer camp so it's not even a full week
And while I was there I think I was around the age of 11
I think it was around my you know not quite teen years
That I went to this summer camp called Camp McClain
And I met this girl in my cabin and I don't remember her name
Which is why I was like is this even a story?
And I was like okay no but the details that matter I remember
But let's call her Amanda
And while I was there for that week I just remember her becoming like my best and dearest friend
Which is funny to think about now because again it was only five days
But she was really funny and interesting
And I had gone to summer camp with a friend of my name Sarah, you know dad
I already had a buddy but I love making new friends and I just remember that being a dynamic
That I was there with a good friend but I was also making this new friend
And we just again hit it off I think because I thought she was funny and smart
And the reason this is a story at all rather than just an anecdote of
Okay you made a friend at summer camp is that she was Mormon
And I famously you raised your children in her faith I grew up in her faith
And I think that pre-teens it's like the first what do I want to say
I think summer camp is one of those first experiences for some kids myself included
Where like you have to present yourself to strangers without your family or any community
Like you decide what you're gonna share because there's no shared context
So it's not like going back to your school going back to in art class whatever
So I just remember it being front and center that this girl was a Mormon
And she was somewhat evangelical in a way that sort of revealed itself in my head late in the game
Where I was oh no my best friend is cross-slip tithing to me
I'm sure I was only like the second day or something
But we talked about religion and I just have these vague memories of us getting into almost political discussions
Again it's like we don't really have the language for it we were 11 but we were talking about God and heaven and hell
And what it meant that I had a Jewish mom I remember that being hard for her to wrap her head around
And just this early confrontation of oh we really like each other
But she definitely didn't have a way to understand me and I was I think more familiar with the idea that
She was a religious person because I grew up around plenty of people who were only raised in one faith tradition
But I think I confounded her but she really liked me
But we got into a discussion I don't know when in the week I'm gonna say midweek where
We were talking about gay people and I just remember using that phrase gay people
And she suggested that they go to hell and it was really upsetting to me because I was thankfully not raised with that belief in any way
And it was really jarring to me that my new friend who I thought was really cool believed that some people would go to hell
And I'm queer person who came out so to speak at the age of 22, 21, 22
So it would be like another 10 years before I started owning that part of myself I guess openly and formally
But I always had a sense that I could be queer and I would use the word I remember at the time like lesbian
Like I would have moments of being like am I a lesbian and I remember saying that to my sister Hope
And her being like well if you are you are and it's okay and we all love you and it's fine
And I feel so grateful for that that that was the response to that question
But I remember talking to this friend of mine and that being sort of the inner monologue of oh no what if I am gay
And she finds out and she thinks I'm going to hell but I don't think I'm going to hell but I did feel sad thinking that she maybe thought that about me
Anyway it became this wedge in our newfound best friendship over the course of just a couple of days
But we talked a lot about it where I remember just talking a lot with her of like I don't think that it's a sin to love people you love
And that's not my experience and I think it blew her head off that I had parents who didn't think that way
I think it was sort of radical for her and she was really kind and loving in her processing with me about this
It was almost like I'm putting my adult lens on it now already but in my memory of it she didn't want to think people went to hell
That was the feeling I got from her but it was so ingrained in her already at this young age
And we just had thoughtful conversations about it where it wasn't about I was not going to change my mind about it
But I did feel her desire to like ask me questions as almost as if what does it feel like to live not thinking that people go to hell
For loving people of the same gender
And the irony of that being and I'm not trying to jump the gun of the second question of this podcast
But the irony of that being that I didn't know until my adulthood that it's kind of a stereotype for queer female friendships
That queer women get into fast and close friendships, get into friendships very quickly and that become kind of codependent really quickly
And so it's almost like the irony that I was having this sort of not quite romantic but in some ways romantic fast intense friendship with this woman
Or this young girl when I was a young girl
That had all the makings of like an early queer dynamic
But what we were sort of the intensity of the relationship led to a place where we could talk specifically about gay and lesbian people
Which is I'm sure the extent to what our language which I'm sure is like the language we were using pretty simple language like gay people and lesbians
So anyway, the story is really that we you know again it's like not quite a story but it is this experience
And this like moment and this person who kind of like lives in my head
I think because I in whatever way it's possible to love somebody that quickly when you don't know them
I feel like I loved her like I fell in love with her during that week and then was sort of heartbroken by realizing we didn't share values
And then had to like say goodbye to her and we promised to keep in touch and we didn't
But I almost feel like the fulfillment of that promise is that I think about her often
Often enough that you know again it's almost 20 years later and I don't remember her name
I don't remember that many specifics about anything but I remember those conversations and they mattered and her like I can see her face
And that's almost enough I hope at least for this podcast that it's that it's a story
It feels like a story that again lives in me so that's the the marking the makings of a story that I wanted to share with you
I wish I remembered her name but we'll call again we'll just say that's the story of Amanda in my life
All right well I do kind of wish that somehow you'd stayed in touch or whatever and you had some follow-up but you don't but that's all right
And I hope wherever Amanda is or whatever her name is she's out there and she's happy that's the most important thing
And I hope she doesn't think people are going to hell but that's for another that's not for this podcast
So my question to you is how do you think that 11 year old discussion you had with this Mormon who basically implied that anybody who was gay was going to hell
Or maybe even explicitly stated it and then now many years later you living a life that involves a queer lifestyle etc
How do you think that's impacted who you are today you said she's rattled around in your head still so
How do you think it's impacted your life today?
Well this is where I hope I justify this being the story because I was like I have other stories that have beginning, middles and ends
But this is the thing where when I was brainstorming what to share on this podcast I'm like I think it was pretty formative and in a lot of ways
And that it was this like early experience of explaining my values separate from the values handed to me from my parents
I had to justify them on my own even though I was probably still parroting you and mom in some ways
It felt for me very like I could choose to not say that these are my values I could choose to be like yeah I gave people go to hell
But it was sort of that self-discovery moment of when left on my own at summer camp meeting a new person
If they say something I don't agree with I am somebody who will tell them I don't agree with them and I'll stand up for what I believe in
And I'll stay strong in that and I think that was really formative for me because that's something I like about myself
And I think has been true for a long time but I think it gave me a sense of confidence like I can do that I can explain why I believe what I believe
And I hold that skill set close to my heart that I'm somebody who can justify and explain what I believe and why I believe it
And the fact that that's been true since I was 11 or maybe earlier is something I feel some pride in and also gratitude for
Like gratitude that I was taught to be like that
And then I think it stayed with me because I feel like as I've thought about it the older I've gotten
I think it stayed with me because as an adult looking at that story I think my big takeaway is that like I really believe people are born wanting to love and accept everybody around them
And my the thing I remember is her seeming really confused and I felt really not confused
I felt very maybe confused about who I was but I didn't feel confused about the morality around loving people
And I just remember feeling her confusion and so again so as an adult looking back on that I have a real belief that like children want to love and accept the people around them
And they're trained into not living like that and I hope to God she's not like a hateful homophobe now
But if she is she didn't start out that way she started out as a kid who was really trying to make sense of what she'd learned
In light of the perhaps more easily digestible information which of course people should be able to love who they love
So I feel like I try to carry that with me when I encounter adults who are hateful or hateful and prejudiced and narrow minded
I try to remember that that's not the way the world has to be because children actually want to be raised I think to love expansively
And I think the third thing that I carry with me or the way it sort of stayed with me is that it's helped me make sense of my own relationship to queerness
By being able to sort of plot these moments in my life where I've had fast and intense relationships with women and there's a lot of imposter syndrome that comes with queerness
I think especially if it's something you come into quote unquote later in life which is to say like I was 22 and that felt late for me as somebody who thought I like really knew myself really well
It's been helpful to be able to like go back in my own personal history and be like hey you're not an imposter this has always been true that you like love women or love across gender
Or have intense relationships that are almost romantic or are explicitly romantic with people of all genders
So I think it's been personally helpful for my own like narrative of self and then it's also just helped me I think stay optimistic about the way the world could be
If we just let kids love people the way they want to love people, does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah it's beautiful, it's beautiful. Well I think you know me well enough to know that I send a short prayer out to Amanda whatever she is that she's
And in conflict that she's been able to work whatever out she needs to work out
And I think that you're amazing in your ability to look forward and look backwards and look into the present
And so you've articulated it quite well I think and I want to thank you for being on the show because I know it's a long time in coming to get my famous podcaster, comedian daughter on the show
Thanks for having me on the show and you can cut this if you want but I also like yeah it's not even for the podcast necessarily but I really feel like immense gratitude that I didn't have to be confused about
The endless possibilities of love as a kid because when I think back about her not to reiterate again it's just me to you or the podcast but like I wasn't ever confused about that
And that's a real gift that non homophobic parents can give their children where it was kind of like well whoever I am I do think that like love doesn't really have limits in that way
And that's something that's like not given to every child so thank you for having me on the podcast and also thanks for keeping me from the pain and confusion of that
Yeah well I think I speak for all parents when I say that we try not to screw up our kids but we do but we try our best not to and in our case your mother's in my case
We try to let you know that we love you no matter what and we think that loving other people is a great thing regardless of whatever I mean gender or other issues
So I'm glad so far you've been open and receptive to all people I think that makes a lot of sense and I'm just hopeful that you know you continue to be open to people and loving the people and the people are loving to you too
I don't like the idea of people walking around with plenty fingers that anybody is saying you're going to hell this or that bothers me when I think about that
Yeah when I go to hell it's not going to be for that
I don't know what I like to think that there's I mean this is way off the subject now but I've got this hypothesis that God is somehow if there's a divine that it's a loving God
and if that's the case then anybody who's using him or her or them in any other way is just off the track you know just dismiss the point
But that's just me, what do I know? I don't know any more than anybody else does to be truthful but it makes for a heck of a lot easier life when you think that at the end of it all it's a loving God versus a God that damns people for left or right or for anything
because regardless my friend whoever's listening or whatever else if it's not a loving God we're all in a little bit of trouble
if it's a loving God we're doing alright I'm talking about everybody
but anyway I don't want to get into my whole you know I could have been a minister type of thing I want to be a minister but that's a whole different thing
that's a next podcast
so thank you for coming on the show Hannah I'd like to bring my sponsor Sight Lining Publishing so until next time this is Jay Reagg asking you all to please stay safe out there and try not to hurt anybody