WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.859 Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today we're tackling 00:00:02.859 --> 00:00:07.519 a really interesting question in education. How 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:10.560 much say should students actually have? That 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:13.679 balance. Yeah. And we're using a piece by Gary 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:17.280 Ackerman from hackscience .education as our sort 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:20.100 of jumping off point. It's called On Student 00:00:20.100 --> 00:00:23.940 Autonomy. came out last July. A great raid. Definitely. 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:26.800 So if you've ever been a student, or maybe you're 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.019 a parent, or honestly, if you're just curious 00:00:29.019 --> 00:00:31.440 about how learning really works best. It should 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:33.780 be pretty relevant. Exactly. We're diving deep 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:37.700 to find that sweet spot between guidance and 00:00:37.700 --> 00:00:39.979 student control. And Ackerman's article really 00:00:39.979 --> 00:00:42.579 frames it well. It talks about this spectrum, 00:00:42.659 --> 00:00:45.640 this continuum. It argues against the extremes. 00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:48.399 Right. So not total chaos where students run 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.649 wild. Uh -huh. But also not the super restrictive, 00:00:52.090 --> 00:00:53.929 teacher dictates everything classroom. Because 00:00:53.929 --> 00:00:56.049 that can be pretty dull, pretty stifling. Totally. 00:00:56.250 --> 00:00:58.689 The article suggests the really effective nurturing 00:00:58.689 --> 00:01:00.729 learning environment. It's somewhere in the middle. 00:01:01.109 --> 00:01:04.329 Okay, so let's dig into that continuum idea first. 00:01:05.109 --> 00:01:08.230 Ackerman paints these two, well, pretty stock 00:01:08.230 --> 00:01:10.950 pictures at the ends. Yeah, one end is like complete 00:01:10.950 --> 00:01:12.870 student control. They choose everything. What 00:01:12.870 --> 00:01:15.670 they learn, how they even show they've learned 00:01:15.670 --> 00:01:17.530 it. And the potential downside there according 00:01:17.530 --> 00:01:21.920 to the article is, well, Chaos a bit of a free 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.180 -for -all could be you know, maybe not hitting 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:26.379 core concepts if everyone's just following their 00:01:26.379 --> 00:01:29.120 immediate whim Especially in subjects like science 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:31.859 maybe yeah, you could see that but then the other 00:01:31.859 --> 00:01:35.420 extreme Complete teacher control right every 00:01:35.420 --> 00:01:38.000 lesson mapped out every assignment identical 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:40.939 no room for student interest or curiosity and 00:01:40.939 --> 00:01:43.459 the article argues that's just as bad potentially 00:01:43.459 --> 00:01:47.060 kills motivation makes learning feel impersonal 00:01:47.060 --> 00:01:49.760 exactly Stifling is the word Ackerman uses, I 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:51.980 think. It doesn't engage the student's own drive. 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:54.719 So the core mission here is finding that balance. 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:57.000 And Ackerman actually points out some specific 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.959 times when teachers probably should keep a tighter 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:03.700 rein. Yeah, which is crucial. It's not just about 00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:05.780 letting go. The first one he mentions is pretty 00:02:05.780 --> 00:02:09.139 straightforward. Safety. Makes total sense. Labs, 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:12.900 workshops. Duteos, yeah. Anywhere with tools 00:02:12.900 --> 00:02:15.360 or materials that could be, you know, dangerous 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.800 if not used properly. So teacher control there 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:20.520 isn't about limiting learning. It's about enabling 00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.400 it by keeping things safe. Precisely. You build 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:25.800 that secure foundation first. You can't explore 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.580 creatively if you're worried about accidents 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:31.139 or actually causing damage. It's like basic rules 00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:33.400 of the road before you go exploring. OK, what's 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:37.360 next? Reducing frustration. And this is a nuanced 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:40.819 one because obviously some struggle in learning 00:02:40.819 --> 00:02:43.370 is good. It's necessary even. Right. That's how 00:02:43.370 --> 00:02:46.569 you grow. But there's a line. There is. Ackerman 00:02:46.569 --> 00:02:48.849 distinguishes between that productive struggle, 00:02:48.969 --> 00:02:52.150 the kind that pushes you, and like debilitating 00:02:52.150 --> 00:02:54.430 frustration, the kind that makes you just shut 00:02:54.430 --> 00:02:57.189 down. OK. So the teacher's role is? To observe, 00:02:57.550 --> 00:02:59.490 really. To see when a student is hitting that 00:02:59.490 --> 00:03:02.009 wall, not making progress, just getting overwhelmed. 00:03:02.610 --> 00:03:04.590 And then maybe step in. Not necessarily to give 00:03:04.590 --> 00:03:06.969 the answer, but maybe teach coping strategies. 00:03:07.370 --> 00:03:10.830 Or just offer some guidance. Exactly that. Helping 00:03:10.830 --> 00:03:13.030 them manage the frustration so it doesn't become 00:03:13.030 --> 00:03:15.210 a total roadblock to learning. Okay, that makes 00:03:15.210 --> 00:03:19.169 sense. Now this next one sounds intriguing. Exceeding 00:03:19.169 --> 00:03:22.889 the bounds of knowledge. Ah, yes. The astrology 00:03:22.889 --> 00:03:25.729 example. Right. In a science class, walk us through 00:03:25.729 --> 00:03:28.449 that argument. What's the core idea? Well, the 00:03:28.449 --> 00:03:31.449 article uses it to highlight a teacher's responsibility. 00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:35.009 If you're teaching science, you have a duty, 00:03:35.110 --> 00:03:38.719 basically, to teach scientific... Concepts, the 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.180 scientific method. Even if a student is super 00:03:41.180 --> 00:03:43.460 interested in something non -scientific like 00:03:43.460 --> 00:03:46.080 astrology. Right. While that interest is valid 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:49.219 in itself, the science classroom has a specific 00:03:49.219 --> 00:03:51.719 purpose. It's about guiding students towards 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:53.759 understanding the established knowledge within 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:55.840 that discipline. So it's not about dismissing 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:57.919 the student's interest entirely. No, not at all. 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:01.319 But about focus. And context. Like maybe astrology 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:03.659 fits better in a social studies class, looking 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:05.840 at belief systems or something. Exactly. It's 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:08.259 about appropriateness for the context. The science 00:04:08.259 --> 00:04:10.680 class needs to focus on science. That's the teacher's 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.080 responsibility within that framework. OK. But 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:15.599 then the article throws in a curveball mentioning 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.500 the artificiality of standards. Yeah, that add 00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:20.899 the layer, doesn't it? It does. It acknowledges 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:22.939 that teachers have to teach to standards, but 00:04:22.939 --> 00:04:25.970 also reminds us that these standards Well, they're 00:04:25.970 --> 00:04:28.389 made up by people. They aren't natural laws. 00:04:28.529 --> 00:04:31.850 Right. They're constructs. Useful ones, hopefully, 00:04:32.449 --> 00:04:34.889 designed to ensure some consistency and coverage, 00:04:35.389 --> 00:04:37.810 but they can also be limiting sometimes. So how 00:04:37.810 --> 00:04:40.670 does that artificiality factor into the teacher 00:04:40.670 --> 00:04:43.389 control discussion? I think it's a reminder that 00:04:43.389 --> 00:04:47.120 even when teachers need to exert control, maybe 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.279 to meet those standards. There should still be 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:52.560 an awareness that the standards themselves aren't 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:54.660 the be -all and end -all. They might not perfectly 00:04:54.660 --> 00:04:57.100 align with every student's path. So it adds nuance. 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:00.300 Even necessary control isn't absolute. Okay, 00:05:00.300 --> 00:05:02.060 so we've talked about when teachers should control 00:05:02.060 --> 00:05:05.480 things. Let's flip it. What does actual student 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:07.839 autonomy look like, according to Ackerman? Good 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.519 question. Fundamentally, he defines it as students 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:12.899 making decisions about their own learning. Simple 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:14.620 enough on the surface. But there's more to it. 00:05:14.740 --> 00:05:17.350 Definitely. He breaks it down into two key parts. 00:05:17.930 --> 00:05:20.350 First, students need permission. Permission, 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:22.850 like the classroom culture has to actually allow 00:05:22.850 --> 00:05:26.329 it, value their input. Exactly. It needs to be 00:05:26.329 --> 00:05:29.129 OK for them to have a say. But crucially, they 00:05:29.129 --> 00:05:32.970 also need the capacity. Capacity, meaning? Meaning 00:05:32.970 --> 00:05:35.730 they need the actual skills, the knowledge, the 00:05:35.730 --> 00:05:38.129 resources to do what they want to do, to follow 00:05:38.129 --> 00:05:40.509 through on the decisions they make. Ah, OK. So 00:05:40.509 --> 00:05:42.269 it's not just, OK, choose whatever you want. 00:05:42.290 --> 00:05:44.689 You have to equip them first. Precisely. You 00:05:44.689 --> 00:05:46.389 can't just grant permission without building 00:05:46.389 --> 00:05:49.129 the capacity. It's about teaching them what they 00:05:49.129 --> 00:05:51.110 need, giving them the tools. And then giving 00:05:51.110 --> 00:05:53.370 them the space and opportunity to apply it in 00:05:53.370 --> 00:05:55.209 ways that are meaningful to them. That's the 00:05:55.209 --> 00:05:57.870 core idea. It's an integration. And he argues 00:05:57.870 --> 00:05:59.589 this should happen throughout their education. 00:05:59.790 --> 00:06:01.750 Even with really young kids, some might find 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:04.189 that surprising. Yeah. It pushes back on the 00:06:04.189 --> 00:06:07.470 idea that little kids just need constant, direct 00:06:07.470 --> 00:06:10.730 instruction. Ackerman suggests teachers can build 00:06:10.730 --> 00:06:13.379 in choices even early on. Like choosing which 00:06:13.379 --> 00:06:16.100 book to read from a selection or how to present 00:06:16.100 --> 00:06:19.699 a simple project. Exactly. Small choices, but 00:06:19.699 --> 00:06:22.180 they build that sense of agency, that ownership 00:06:22.180 --> 00:06:26.180 right from the start. It's about respecting that 00:06:26.180 --> 00:06:29.040 even young learners are capable of engaging with 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.459 their own studies. Okay, so what are the big 00:06:31.459 --> 00:06:34.860 wins here? Why push for this autonomy? What are 00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:37.399 the benefits the article highlights? Well, the 00:06:37.399 --> 00:06:39.779 most fundamental one is engagement, right? When 00:06:39.779 --> 00:06:41.639 students make decisions about their learning, 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:43.899 they're naturally more invested. They have skin 00:06:43.899 --> 00:06:46.120 in the game. Totally. They aren't just passive 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:49.339 receivers. They're active participants. And Ackerman 00:06:49.339 --> 00:06:51.800 stresses that teachers should really respect 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:54.399 that capability, even in young students. And 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:56.300 there's a benefit for the teacher too, isn't 00:06:56.300 --> 00:06:58.399 there? Something about learning from the students. 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:00.879 Or absolutely. That's a huge point in the article. 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:03.759 When you give students more control, you learn 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.199 so much about them. Like what choices they make, 00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:08.779 what interests them, how they tackle problems. 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.000 All of that. You see their thinking processes, 00:07:11.420 --> 00:07:13.579 their strengths, where they might need more support. 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.560 It's invaluable feedback that helps the teacher 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:18.699 tailor things better. Makes the whole system 00:07:18.699 --> 00:07:21.660 more responsive. Now the article also mentions 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:25.180 this older term, student voice and choice. How 00:07:25.180 --> 00:07:28.170 is autonomy different? He seems to frame voice 00:07:28.170 --> 00:07:30.889 and choice as maybe a precursor or a component. 00:07:31.329 --> 00:07:34.449 It's about giving students a say. Autonomy, in 00:07:34.449 --> 00:07:37.629 Ackerman's view, feels broader. It includes having 00:07:37.629 --> 00:07:40.430 that voice and choice, yes, but it really emphasizes 00:07:40.430 --> 00:07:42.730 having the genuine permission and the skills, 00:07:43.329 --> 00:07:45.870 the capacity to actually direct parts of your 00:07:45.870 --> 00:07:48.389 learning journey. So it's a deeper kind of empowerment. 00:07:48.470 --> 00:07:51.100 That's how I read it, yeah. goes beyond just 00:07:51.100 --> 00:07:53.720 sort of voting on options provided by the teacher. 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:56.079 Got it. OK, so let's recap. We have explored 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:58.980 this idea of a continuum away from the extremes. 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.839 We talked about specific necessary areas for 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.240 teacher control safety, managing that really 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:06.600 bad frustration, keeping focus within a subject 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:08.699 like science. Right. Well, also acknowledging 00:08:08.699 --> 00:08:10.759 that standards have their own limitations. Then 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:13.540 we defined autonomy, needing both that permission 00:08:13.540 --> 00:08:16.120 and the actual capacity of the skills to make 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:19.339 meaningful choices and the benefits. More engagement. 00:08:19.529 --> 00:08:21.769 deeper learning, and teachers learning more about 00:08:21.769 --> 00:08:24.790 their students too. Exactly. The big picture 00:08:24.790 --> 00:08:26.569 is that it's not about choosing one approach, 00:08:26.930 --> 00:08:29.230 teacher -led or student -led. It's about this 00:08:29.230 --> 00:08:31.930 constant, thoughtful navigation between them. 00:08:32.090 --> 00:08:34.549 Knowing when to step in and guide and when to 00:08:34.549 --> 00:08:36.909 step back and empower. Precisely. So for you 00:08:36.909 --> 00:08:38.909 listening, whether you're an educator, a student, 00:08:39.169 --> 00:08:42.039 a parent, or just interested in learning. Hopefully 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:44.159 this deep dive gives you a useful way to think 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.019 about structuring learning environments, trying 00:08:47.019 --> 00:08:49.460 to hit that sweet spot. We aim to pull out those 00:08:49.460 --> 00:08:51.759 key nuggets from Ackerman's piece for you efficiently, 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:55.600 but thoroughly. And maybe a final thought to 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.360 leave you with, something to chew on. If we take 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.419 these ideas about autonomy, permission, and capacity 00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:04.840 outside the classroom, how do they apply to our 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:08.240 own lifelong learning? How can we be more intentional 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:10.139 about creating those conditions for ourselves, 00:09:10.340 --> 00:09:12.919 giving ourselves permission to explore, but also 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:14.840 making sure we build the capacity, the skills 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.379 to actually learn what we want to learn effectively? 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:20.159 That's a great question. How do we structure 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.720 our own learning for more autonomy beyond just 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:25.960 formal schooling, something to definitely mull 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:26.159 over?