WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.140 All right, so today we're going way back to ancient 00:00:03.140 --> 00:00:06.280 Greece. Ancient Greece. Yeah, to unpack how we 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:09.099 learn and how we're taught. OK. And believe it 00:00:09.099 --> 00:00:11.679 or not, it all comes down to this word, agogos. 00:00:12.019 --> 00:00:15.039 Agogos. Agogos. Right. It basically means leader. 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:17.219 And you can think of it like the art of guiding 00:00:17.219 --> 00:00:19.859 learning, something that affects every single 00:00:19.859 --> 00:00:23.019 one of us. I'm listening. And so this idea of 00:00:23.019 --> 00:00:25.379 lighting in learning, it's actually evolved into 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:29.160 three distinct approaches. Three? Yeah. pedagogy 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:31.980 and hudagogy and hudagogy. I've heard of those. 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:34.280 You probably have. Yeah. We're going to really 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.299 dig into what makes them unique and how they 00:00:36.299 --> 00:00:38.920 impact our learning. Feels good. Now, pedagogy, 00:00:39.299 --> 00:00:41.579 it's kind of traditionally about leading children. 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.759 OK. Ped for child, a go -go's for a leader. Got 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:47.960 it. And then way back in 1973, Malcolm Knowles, 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:50.640 he brought us under a goji. Yeah. And that's 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.439 about leading adult learners. OK. So literally 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.039 leaders of adults. OK. And now, more recently, 00:00:57.380 --> 00:00:59.799 hutagoji is gaining some traction. Hutagoji. 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:02.560 Yeah, self -led learning. So you're leading your 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:04.400 own learning. Exactly. You're in the driver's 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:06.500 seat. Interesting. But here's what's really important 00:01:06.500 --> 00:01:08.239 and this is what we're going to focus on. Okay. 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:10.959 These aren't just about age. Not just about age. 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:14.079 It's more about the fundamental nature of teaching 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:17.019 and learning itself. Oh. So we're going to look 00:01:17.019 --> 00:01:19.439 at these through five characteristics and these 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:22.390 should help you understand how they differ and 00:01:22.390 --> 00:01:24.989 why certain learning experiences feel the way 00:01:24.989 --> 00:01:27.469 they do. Makes sense. So whether you're getting 00:01:27.469 --> 00:01:29.530 ready for that big meeting or you're trying to 00:01:29.530 --> 00:01:32.390 get a handle on something new, or maybe you just 00:01:32.390 --> 00:01:35.769 like to understand how knowledge works, grasping 00:01:35.769 --> 00:01:38.430 these differences can be incredibly valuable. 00:01:38.430 --> 00:01:41.709 Yeah. It might even help you understand why some 00:01:41.709 --> 00:01:44.049 learning has clicked for you in the past and 00:01:44.049 --> 00:01:46.510 what approaches might serve you best moving forward. 00:01:46.709 --> 00:01:49.310 OK, ready? Let's dive in with that first one, 00:01:49.489 --> 00:01:52.799 pedagogy. All right. Pedagogy. So traditionally, 00:01:52.859 --> 00:01:55.980 it's about guiding children. And when you look 00:01:55.980 --> 00:01:59.079 at the five characteristics, it really paints 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:01.920 a clear picture. So the first one is the need 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:04.799 to know. In pedagogy, this is mostly decided 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.159 by the teacher's authority. The teacher decides. 00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:09.759 The teacher decides what you need to learn and 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:12.460 when. So it's very direct. Very direct, top -down 00:02:12.460 --> 00:02:14.599 information flow. Then we've got the learner 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.800 self -concept. Yeah. So pedagogy kind of assumes 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:20.180 learners need a lot of support, especially when 00:02:20.180 --> 00:02:22.939 they're young. To be self -directed? Yeah. The 00:02:22.939 --> 00:02:25.360 teacher takes on a more guiding and directive 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:27.360 role. Which makes sense when you're laying down 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:30.159 those foundations. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. OK, 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:33.159 so the third characteristic is the learner's 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:35.520 experience. So here the idea is that they just 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:37.659 haven't had that many relevant experiences yet. 00:02:37.800 --> 00:02:40.379 They're new. They're new. OK. So the teacher 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:44.280 in this model, they're the main source of information 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:47.719 and experience. So think about learning to read 00:02:47.719 --> 00:02:51.159 or basic math. You're not exactly pulling from 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:53.219 a ton of personal experience there. Not at all. 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.360 No. OK. What about readiness to learn in a pedagogical 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:58.879 setting? Well, in pedagogy, you're going to see 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:02.879 a lot of external motivation. External. Yeah. 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:06.780 So grade stickers, praise from the teacher, maybe 00:03:06.780 --> 00:03:08.419 even just wanting to make their parents happy. 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:11.599 Yeah. big factors in driving a child's engagement. 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.439 And so the last piece is the orientation to learning. 00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:18.159 Orientation. How is that structured? Well, typically 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:22.139 the focus is on the subjects themselves or specific 00:03:22.139 --> 00:03:25.080 content areas. So like subject focus. Subject 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.479 focus. Yeah. History, science, math kind of segmented. 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:30.500 Right. It's all about building that foundational 00:03:30.500 --> 00:03:32.699 understanding. Gotcha. But this isn't always 00:03:32.699 --> 00:03:35.819 just for kids, is it? No, not always. Can you 00:03:35.819 --> 00:03:38.919 think of a situation where that direct instruction 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:41.639 might actually be useful for adults. Oh, tons. 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:45.039 Yeah. So imagine trying to learn the rules of 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:49.590 a new sport. or a really complex board game. 00:03:49.650 --> 00:03:51.909 In those first few minutes, you probably just 00:03:51.909 --> 00:03:54.229 want someone to lay it all out, clearly. Right, 00:03:54.389 --> 00:03:56.449 just the basics. Yeah, the need to know without 00:03:56.449 --> 00:03:59.050 needing a big rationale behind every single rule. 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:01.789 Makes sense. Or think about safety protocols 00:04:01.789 --> 00:04:04.110 with specialized equipment. In the beginning, 00:04:04.490 --> 00:04:06.870 clear, authority -led instruction can be the 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:09.569 safest way to learn for Anyone. Regardless of 00:04:09.569 --> 00:04:11.689 age. Regardless of age. That's a really good 00:04:11.689 --> 00:04:13.949 point. Yeah. Something to think about. Sometimes 00:04:13.949 --> 00:04:16.389 when the knowledge is super foundational. Right. 00:04:16.709 --> 00:04:20.250 Or it's got safety implications. Yeah. A pedagogical 00:04:20.250 --> 00:04:22.569 approach, even with adults, can be the best way 00:04:22.569 --> 00:04:25.550 to go. Very true. Yeah. OK, so let's switch gears 00:04:25.550 --> 00:04:28.990 now and talk about andragogy. Andragogy. OK, 00:04:29.089 --> 00:04:32.649 so this one's about how adults learn best. Leaders 00:04:32.649 --> 00:04:34.870 of adults. How do those five characteristics? 00:04:35.479 --> 00:04:37.560 change when we're dealing with adults? Well, 00:04:37.579 --> 00:04:39.939 the biggest change is in the need to know. Need 00:04:39.939 --> 00:04:43.459 to know. OK. With adults, a solid rationale is 00:04:43.459 --> 00:04:47.620 essential. Essential. Adults, they want to understand 00:04:47.620 --> 00:04:50.079 why they're learning something. Yeah. I mean, 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:52.500 it's not enough to just say you have to. Exactly. 00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:54.259 You have to connect it to their lives, their 00:04:54.259 --> 00:04:57.040 jobs, their goals. Right. We've got to prioritize. 00:04:57.079 --> 00:04:58.800 We've got to prioritize. We're busy. You're busy. 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.660 What about the learner self -concept with Andra 00:05:01.660 --> 00:05:04.319 Goji? So this model really acknowledges that 00:05:04.350 --> 00:05:07.209 Adults want to be self -directed. They want to 00:05:07.209 --> 00:05:09.810 be in control. They want to be in control. They 00:05:09.810 --> 00:05:12.689 come with a sense of autonomy, and they prefer 00:05:12.689 --> 00:05:15.649 to have a say. They're not passive. Not passive. 00:05:15.709 --> 00:05:17.589 They want to be active in their own education. 00:05:17.810 --> 00:05:20.269 And that seems to tie in with learners' experience. 00:05:20.389 --> 00:05:23.569 It does. Right. Adults come with a whole history. 00:05:23.649 --> 00:05:25.930 A whole history. Yeah. In androgyny, that prior 00:05:25.930 --> 00:05:28.449 experience becomes super valuable. Valuable how 00:05:28.449 --> 00:05:30.990 so? Well, adults, they bring knowledge skills. 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.319 perspectives from their past. Effective adult 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:36.759 learning taps into that. So it's not a blank 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.019 slate. Not a blank slate. It builds on what you 00:05:39.019 --> 00:05:41.220 already know. So what about readiness to learn 00:05:41.220 --> 00:05:44.480 with adults? Well, Androgoji assumes adults are 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:47.779 motivated by internal factors. Internal. Internal. 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.139 Like what? Professional growth, personal development, 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:53.740 maybe wanting to solve a problem at work. It 00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:55.720 comes from within. It comes from within. Okay, 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:58.339 so that brings us to... orientation to learning. 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:00.839 How is that different for adults? It's less about 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:04.100 the subjects themselves and more about problems, 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:08.600 situations, real -world stuff. Context. Context, 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.699 exactly. Okay. Adults learn best when they see 00:06:11.699 --> 00:06:14.379 how it applies to their lives. Right. Real -world 00:06:14.379 --> 00:06:16.379 scenarios. Real -world scenarios. Now our source 00:06:16.379 --> 00:06:19.540 says, and Rag -o -G is actually a pretty good 00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:22.959 default model for education in general. Hmm. 00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:27.959 Interesting take. Why, that is. Well, because 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:31.579 this approach really respects the learner. Respect. 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.420 It values adult learners, trusts their judgment 00:06:35.420 --> 00:06:38.480 about what's relevant. So it's putting the responsibility 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:41.160 on the educator to demonstrate that relevance. 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:43.339 Exactly. It's a partnership. A collaboration. 00:06:43.339 --> 00:06:45.279 It definitely feels more empowering than just 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.480 a straight pedagogical approach. Especially for 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.319 adults. But the author also says pedagogy has 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:52.939 its place even with adults. Right. When would 00:06:52.939 --> 00:06:56.870 that be? Well, when there's a specific need or 00:06:56.870 --> 00:07:00.290 when the learners themselves ask for direct instruction. 00:07:00.430 --> 00:07:02.290 They know they need the basics. Exactly. They 00:07:02.290 --> 00:07:03.970 realize they're missing something. So if you're 00:07:03.970 --> 00:07:05.870 completely new to something or you hit a wall 00:07:05.870 --> 00:07:08.810 because you lack the basics, sometimes clear 00:07:08.810 --> 00:07:11.269 pedagogical teaching is the best way to get up 00:07:11.269 --> 00:07:13.490 to speed. Get you going. It's like you need that 00:07:13.490 --> 00:07:15.949 groundwork. The foundation. All right. Let's 00:07:15.949 --> 00:07:19.170 move on to the third of go -gos. This one feels 00:07:19.170 --> 00:07:22.050 pretty relevant these days. Utagogi. Utagogi. 00:07:22.170 --> 00:07:24.990 It's really taking learner agency to the next 00:07:24.990 --> 00:07:27.310 level. So self -determined learning. Yeah, you 00:07:27.310 --> 00:07:29.790 decide what you learn, how you learn it, and 00:07:29.790 --> 00:07:31.649 even how you show what you've learned. You're 00:07:31.649 --> 00:07:34.790 really in control. It's all you. So how do those 00:07:34.790 --> 00:07:38.290 five characteristics look with Utagogi? Okay, 00:07:38.310 --> 00:07:40.689 let's start with the need to know. Need to know, 00:07:40.730 --> 00:07:43.029 where does that come from? It comes from you. 00:07:43.230 --> 00:07:45.949 From me. From your curiosity, your interests. 00:07:46.029 --> 00:07:48.870 OK. You're not told what to learn. So I decide 00:07:48.870 --> 00:07:51.370 what I want to learn. You decide. That sounds 00:07:51.370 --> 00:07:53.730 amazing, but also kind of overwhelming. Could 00:07:53.730 --> 00:07:56.430 be. What about the learner's self -concept in 00:07:56.430 --> 00:07:58.529 Utagoji? Well, it assumes you're already pretty 00:07:58.529 --> 00:08:01.029 self -directed. Self -directed. Yeah. You can 00:08:01.029 --> 00:08:02.850 take ownership of your learning. Yeah. There's 00:08:02.850 --> 00:08:04.990 a lot of trust there. Trust in me. Trust in you. 00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:08.110 OK. Trust that you can identify your needs, find 00:08:08.110 --> 00:08:11.379 resources, and learn effectively. So what about 00:08:11.379 --> 00:08:14.180 learner's experience? How does that fit in when 00:08:14.180 --> 00:08:16.720 I'm driving? You definitely use your past knowledge 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.699 and skills, but it's more personalized and less 00:08:19.699 --> 00:08:22.959 structured than andragogy. Okay, structure. You're 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:25.839 drawing on your past to inform your self -directed 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:28.300 learning. So I'm making the connections myself. 00:08:28.579 --> 00:08:31.180 Exactly. What about readiness to learn in this 00:08:31.180 --> 00:08:34.000 model? This is crucial. Crucial? Without that 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:36.500 motivation, hudigoji won't work. Because I have 00:08:36.500 --> 00:08:38.340 to be the one driving it. You're the engine. 00:08:38.490 --> 00:08:41.309 And lastly, orientation to learning. Right, so 00:08:41.309 --> 00:08:43.730 it's not about subjects or even problems. So 00:08:43.730 --> 00:08:46.250 what is it about? It's about creating something 00:08:46.250 --> 00:08:49.970 meaningful. Meaningful, okay. A product or performance 00:08:49.970 --> 00:08:53.009 that means something to you. So it's about applying 00:08:53.009 --> 00:08:55.470 it, not just knowing it. Exactly. The source 00:08:55.470 --> 00:08:58.409 says education should always provide opportunities 00:08:58.409 --> 00:09:01.370 for utagogy. That's important. Why is that? Because 00:09:01.370 --> 00:09:03.470 it lets you really dive deep into what you're 00:09:03.470 --> 00:09:06.110 passionate about. I see. It equips learners for 00:09:06.110 --> 00:09:09.070 the future by encouraging them to explore their 00:09:09.070 --> 00:09:12.169 interests. Lifelong learning. Lifelong learning, 00:09:12.250 --> 00:09:14.429 that's it. But the author also points out that 00:09:14.429 --> 00:09:17.490 it's hard to standardize hudegogi. Yeah, how 00:09:17.490 --> 00:09:20.789 do you measure something so individual? Is that 00:09:20.789 --> 00:09:23.929 a bad thing? Well, it makes it tough to fit into 00:09:23.929 --> 00:09:26.299 traditional systems. Right. But it's also what 00:09:26.299 --> 00:09:28.460 makes it so valuable. I see. Because it allows 00:09:28.460 --> 00:09:31.960 for really unique learning experiences. Exactly. 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:34.159 Experiences that wouldn't fit in the box. So 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:36.480 the values in the journey, not just the destination. 00:09:36.620 --> 00:09:38.860 You got it. And the author concludes by saying 00:09:38.860 --> 00:09:41.419 that institutions are doing learners a disservice 00:09:41.419 --> 00:09:44.440 if they don't provide these self -directed opportunities. 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:47.700 It's a strong statement. Yeah. But it shows how 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:50.039 important self -directed learning is. It's not 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:52.700 a bonus. It's essential. It's essential for navigating 00:09:52.700 --> 00:09:55.289 the future. So how would you sum up the core 00:09:55.289 --> 00:09:58.110 focus of each of these approaches? Okay, so pedagogy 00:09:58.110 --> 00:10:01.250 is teacher -led. Teacher -led. Andragoji focuses 00:10:01.250 --> 00:10:04.870 on the adult learner, their needs and experiences. 00:10:05.009 --> 00:10:07.850 And hutagoji. That's all about you, the learner, 00:10:07.850 --> 00:10:10.129 taking charge. And the best educators know the 00:10:10.129 --> 00:10:12.309 difference. They do. They know when to use which 00:10:12.309 --> 00:10:14.669 approach. Or even a blend of them. It's about 00:10:14.669 --> 00:10:17.269 being flexible. Exactly, meeting the needs of 00:10:17.269 --> 00:10:19.710 the situation. So to wrap up, we've looked at 00:10:19.710 --> 00:10:24.360 pedagogy, andragoji, and hutagoji. Three different 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:26.840 ways of thinking about teaching and learning. 00:10:26.980 --> 00:10:29.519 And we've seen how they view the learner differently. 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:32.620 Their experiences, their motivations. Hopefully, 00:10:32.659 --> 00:10:34.679 you have a better understanding of these frameworks 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:36.340 now. And how they play out in your own life. 00:10:36.580 --> 00:10:38.779 So here's something to think about. Okay. Which 00:10:38.779 --> 00:10:42.919 one of these resonates most with you? Pedagogy, 00:10:43.179 --> 00:10:46.279 endagogy, hitagogy. And when might you benefit 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:49.080 from using one of these approaches? Interesting. 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.379 Whether it's at work or in your personal life. 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:54.379 Yeah. How can you take charge of your own learning? 00:10:54.620 --> 00:10:56.899 That's a great question to ponder. Thanks for 00:10:56.899 --> 00:10:59.080 joining us for this deep dive. Always a pleasure.