1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,400 Ever get the feeling that some problems just keep coming back 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,440 no matter how hard we try to fix them? 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:05,280 Oh yeah. 4 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:06,280 Well, you're not alone. 5 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,720 Today, we're diving deep into wicked problems. 6 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:12,560 Okay. 7 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,960 Think climate change, poverty, or healthcare. 8 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,440 The kind of messy, tangled issues 9 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,480 that just make you wanna throw your hands up in defeat. 10 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:21,320 Right. 11 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:22,160 You know what I mean? 12 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:23,000 Absolutely. 13 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,200 What's so fascinating about these problems, 14 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,480 if they really turn our usual problem-solving strategies 15 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:29,320 on their head. 16 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:29,980 Right. 17 00:00:29,980 --> 00:00:33,440 Like puzzles with pieces that constantly change shape. 18 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:34,040 Oh wow. 19 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:36,040 And where the solution in one corner 20 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,680 might just make things worse in another. 21 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:38,880 Oh, that's a good analogy. 22 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:39,220 Yeah. 23 00:00:39,220 --> 00:00:41,120 Okay, so no easy fixes here. 24 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:41,540 No. 25 00:00:41,540 --> 00:00:42,960 But before we get lost in the weeds, 26 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,400 let's get a handle on what makes these problems so wicked 27 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:47,560 in the first place. 28 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:47,960 Right. 29 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,480 We're using a great article from hackscience.education 30 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:52,840 as our guide. 31 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:53,640 Okay. 32 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,960 Actively titled, Solving Wicked Problems. 33 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:57,640 Catchy. 34 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:58,560 I know, right? 35 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,080 Yeah. 36 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,280 The article goes back to the work of Rital and Weber. 37 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:02,560 Who? 38 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:03,920 Back in the 70s. 39 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,240 Wow, that's a while ago. 40 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,000 Yeah. 41 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,160 They kind of laid out some key characteristics 42 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,720 of these wicked problems. 43 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:11,400 Hmm. 44 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,680 First off, they're incredibly difficult to define. 45 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Okay. 46 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,200 Everyone sees them differently depending on their own 47 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,560 experiences and priorities. 48 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:19,000 Right. 49 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,320 It's like trying to herd cats. 50 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:21,240 Oh, I love that. 51 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,160 Everyone has a different idea of what the problem actually is. 52 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:25,200 Yeah, that makes sense. 53 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:25,440 Yeah. 54 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,640 So no simple checklist to work from. 55 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:28,480 Not a chance. 56 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:30,240 That definitely throws a wrench in the work. 57 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:30,880 Exactly. 58 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,080 And to make matters worse, wicked problems are all tangled up 59 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:35,760 with each other. 60 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:36,240 Oh, yeah. 61 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,280 You pull on one thread and suddenly you're unraveling 62 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,320 something completely different over there. 63 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:41,120 It's true. 64 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,520 Take traffic congestion. 65 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:43,080 Okay. 66 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,320 You build more roads to ease the flow. 67 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:45,680 Right. 68 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,360 But then more people start driving because it's easier. 69 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,480 And you end up right back where you started. 70 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,160 Yep. 71 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,720 Classic wicked problem. 72 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,480 Oh, that whack-a-mole effect is so frustrating. 73 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:57,320 I know. 74 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,800 It almost makes you wonder if there's any point in trying 75 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,880 to solve these problems at all. 76 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,560 Well, that's another tricky thing about wicked problems. 77 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:05,120 What's that? 78 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,000 There's no clear finish line. 79 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,000 Oh, no. 80 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,400 You never really know for sure if you've truly 81 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,880 solved the problem because things are constantly changing. 82 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:14,880 I see what you mean. 83 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:15,440 Yeah. 84 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,600 Like think about something like crime prevention. 85 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:18,680 OK. 86 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,640 You might reduce crime rates in one area. 87 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:22,520 Right. 88 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,920 But then new criminal activities emerge. 89 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:27,400 Or shift to another location. 90 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,400 Oh, wow. 91 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,200 It's a constant game of adaptation. 92 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:30,720 Oh, OK. 93 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,600 I'm starting to see why they're called wicked. 94 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:34,080 Yeah. 95 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,880 But this feels a bit abstract. 96 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:36,720 Sure. 97 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,640 Can you give me a real world example of how this plays out? 98 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:42,920 Let's see. 99 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:44,720 Like something people can really relate to. 100 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:45,120 OK. 101 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,960 Imagine you're trying to improve access to health care. 102 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:48,360 Right. 103 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:49,440 Seems pretty straightforward, right? 104 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:49,760 Yeah. 105 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:50,600 On the surface. 106 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,280 But then you realize that some people can't afford insurance. 107 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,560 Others live miles from the nearest hospital. 108 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:57,720 Yeah, that's a problem. 109 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,960 And some distrust the medical system entirely. 110 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:01,560 It's true. 111 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,200 It's not just about building more hospitals. 112 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:03,600 Right. 113 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,520 It's about tackling a whole web of social and economic issues. 114 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:08,160 Oh, wow. 115 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,640 That are deeply intertwined with health care access. 116 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:12,480 Yeah. 117 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,040 So instead of one right answer, there's 118 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,920 a whole spectrum of potential solutions. 119 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:18,480 Exactly. 120 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,320 Each with its own set of trade-offs 121 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,160 and unintended consequences. 122 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:22,800 For sure. 123 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:23,160 Yeah. 124 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:23,760 That makes sense. 125 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,320 And that's where our traditional linear approach 126 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,840 to problem solving kind of breaks down. 127 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,360 OK. 128 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,640 We're so used to tackling problems in a step-by-step way. 129 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:33,160 Right. 130 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,000 Identify the problem. 131 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,040 Find the solution. 132 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:36,880 Implement it. 133 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:37,240 Yep. 134 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:37,840 And move on. 135 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:38,680 I see. 136 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:40,880 But with wicked problems, it's more 137 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,600 like navigating a maze blindfolded. 138 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:44,680 Oh, that sounds tough. 139 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:45,360 It is. 140 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:45,880 OK. 141 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,560 I'm starting to understand why our old playbook doesn't 142 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:49,080 work here. 143 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:49,520 Right. 144 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,040 But what does a wicked approach to problem solving 145 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:53,520 actually look like? 146 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,240 Well, the article actually provides a great visual 147 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:57,960 representation of this difference. 148 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:58,560 OK. 149 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,360 They compare the linear approach to a neat flow 150 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,600 chart with a straight line from problem to solution. 151 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:05,320 Got it. 152 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,160 But when it comes to tackling a wicked problem, 153 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,640 the visual is more like a tangled web 154 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,360 with arrows going every which way. 155 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,720 Oh, that's a great image. 156 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,040 Yeah. 157 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,320 So it's less about finding the perfect solution 158 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,840 and more about adapting and navigating the complexity. 159 00:04:21,840 --> 00:04:22,320 You got it. 160 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:22,800 OK. 161 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,120 And that brings us to one of the most important ingredients 162 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,600 in tackling wicked problems. 163 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:29,000 OK. 164 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,120 What's that? 165 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:31,080 Diversity of thought. 166 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:31,800 Diversity. 167 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,240 Yeah. 168 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,600 I can see how that's important for social issues. 169 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,000 But does it really apply to all wicked problems? 170 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:38,800 Absolutely. 171 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,280 You see different groups experience the problem 172 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:42,680 in completely different ways. 173 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,480 That's true. 174 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,200 What might seem like a great solution to one person. 175 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:47,000 Right. 176 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,880 Could be totally impractical or even harmful to another. 177 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:50,320 Oh, wow. 178 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,160 Yeah. 179 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,360 The article highlights how the internet, 180 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,480 instead of creating a homogeneous global culture, 181 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,560 has actually led to a surge in niche communities. 182 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,680 That's true. 183 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,520 And that means that solutions need to be even more nuanced. 184 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:05,000 OK. 185 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,240 And tailored to specific contexts. 186 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,400 So it's not just about bringing a diverse group of people 187 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,320 to the table. 188 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,400 It's about actively seeking out those different viewpoints. 189 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:16,880 Yeah. 190 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,320 And really listening to what they have to say. 191 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:19,960 Exactly. 192 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:20,280 Yeah. 193 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:20,880 That's important. 194 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,520 It's about recognizing that there's 195 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:28,280 no single expert who has all the answers. 196 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:31,720 We need to be open to learning from people 197 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,040 with different backgrounds. 198 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:33,480 OK. 199 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,160 Experiences and perspectives. 200 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:35,920 I get it. 201 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:36,920 It's like that old saying. 202 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:37,520 What's that? 203 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,720 If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. 204 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:41,440 I love that. 205 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,160 We need a whole toolbox of approaches and perspectives 206 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,160 if we're going to tackle these wicked problems effectively. 207 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:47,680 Right. 208 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaking of tools. 209 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:49,680 Yeah. 210 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,480 Are there any specific strategies or frameworks 211 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,080 that can help us navigate this messy terrain? 212 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,880 The article dives into a few fascinating concepts. 213 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:00,520 OK. 214 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:00,920 That's your. 215 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,840 One that stands out is the idea of generalists. 216 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:04,720 Generalists. 217 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:05,400 Interesting. 218 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,240 And before you think it's just about jack-of-all-trades types. 219 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:08,720 OK. 220 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:09,200 Hear me out. 221 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:09,440 OK. 222 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:10,280 I'm all ears. 223 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:11,920 Tell me more about these generalists. 224 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:12,240 Right. 225 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,400 So we've established that wicked problems demand 226 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:16,960 a whole new way of thinking. 227 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:17,560 Right. 228 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,200 We need to ditch the linear step-by-step approach. 229 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:21,640 Yeah. 230 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,520 And embrace the messy, iterative reality of these challenges. 231 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:26,120 Exactly. 232 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,160 And diversity of thought is key. 233 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:28,360 Yeah. 234 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:28,800 Right? 235 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:29,560 Absolutely. 236 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,360 We need those varied perspectives 237 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:36,240 to even begin to understand the problem, let alone solve it. 238 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:36,920 You got it. 239 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:37,520 OK. 240 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,160 But sometimes it feels like just gathering those perspectives 241 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:41,280 I ask the problem. 242 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:41,920 Oh, yeah. 243 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,280 Especially with something as big and complex as, say, climate 244 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:45,800 change. 245 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:46,960 I see. 246 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,840 Where do you even start when everyone 247 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:51,120 has a different opinion on what needs to be done? 248 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,640 Well, the article doesn't explicitly dive into this. 249 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:54,160 OK. 250 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,480 But I think the concept of systems thinking 251 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:57,600 is super relevant here. 252 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:58,360 Systems thinking. 253 00:06:58,360 --> 00:06:59,400 I've heard that phrase. 254 00:06:59,400 --> 00:06:59,880 OK. 255 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,640 But to be honest, it always sounded a bit jargon-y to me. 256 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:03,280 I hear you. 257 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:05,520 What does it actually mean in practical terms? 258 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,080 Well, it's all about recognizing the interconnectedness 259 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:08,560 of things. 260 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:09,120 OK. 261 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,400 Instead of focusing on isolated problems. 262 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:11,880 Right. 263 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,560 You look at the bigger picture, the whole system. 264 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,080 OK. 265 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,840 And try to understand how different parts interact 266 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,240 and influence each other. 267 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:21,680 So kind of like a spiderweb. 268 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:22,160 Yes. 269 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,400 Tug on one strand and the whole thing vibrates. 270 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:25,080 Exactly. 271 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:25,840 Oh, I like that. 272 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:26,080 Yeah. 273 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,880 And this is crucial when dealing with wicked problems. 274 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:29,240 OK. 275 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,720 Because they often stem from complex systemic issues. 276 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:33,360 That makes sense. 277 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,480 Like think about homelessness, for example. 278 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:36,200 OK. 279 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,040 It's not just about a lack of affordable housing. 280 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:39,360 Right. 281 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,960 It's connected to mental health services. 282 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:42,480 Yeah. 283 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,320 Addiction support, job opportunities, social safety 284 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,480 nets, a whole web of interconnected factors. 285 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,880 So you're saying that to tackle a wicked problem 286 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,160 effectively, you can't just treat the symptoms. 287 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:56,680 That's right. 288 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,800 You have to zoom out and address the root causes 289 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,040 within the system itself. 290 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:01,880 For sales. 291 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:02,240 OK. 292 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:03,120 I'm with you. 293 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,160 And this requires a real shift in mindset. 294 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,000 How so? 295 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,080 We're so used to looking for quick fixes 296 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:10,920 or pointing fingers at individuals. 297 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:11,120 Yeah. 298 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,200 That's human nature, right? 299 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:12,480 It is. 300 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,000 But with wicked problems, we need 301 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,720 to start thinking in terms of long-term systemic solutions. 302 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:18,400 Exactly. 303 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:18,720 OK. 304 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:19,520 I'm getting it. 305 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:20,120 Good. 306 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,360 But honestly, it's also a little overwhelming. 307 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:24,160 I hear you. 308 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,200 I mean, it's easy to feel paralyzed by the sheer complexity 309 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:28,040 of these problems. 310 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Sure. 311 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,000 Where do you even begin to untangle that web? 312 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,200 Well, and that's the thing about wicked problems. 313 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:33,840 What is? 314 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,560 There is no easy answer. 315 00:08:35,560 --> 00:08:36,200 Oh, no. 316 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:37,680 No one-size-fits-all solution. 317 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:39,120 So are we doomed? 318 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:39,600 No. 319 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:40,200 Not at all. 320 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:40,640 OK. 321 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,920 But the article provides some really valuable insights 322 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,960 that can guide our thinking and actions. 323 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:46,280 OK. 324 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,200 Give me something to hold onto here. 325 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,600 What are some key takeaways that our listeners 326 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,320 can apply to their own lives? 327 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:52,760 OK. 328 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,280 Even if they're not tackling global issues 329 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,360 like climate change or poverty? 330 00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:59,840 Well, one of the biggest takeaways for me 331 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,760 is that we need to become more comfortable 332 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,040 with ambiguity and uncertainty. 333 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,000 Ambiguity and uncertainty. 334 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:06,520 Yeah. 335 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:07,760 Oh, that is tough. 336 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:08,440 I know. 337 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,280 I'm definitely someone who likes to have a plan 338 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,360 and know where I'm going. 339 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:11,920 I get it. 340 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,400 But you're saying we can't always 341 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,320 have that with these wicked problems. 342 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:15,600 Right. 343 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,000 We're conditioned to seek certainty and control. 344 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:18,520 Yeah. 345 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,440 But learning to embrace the unknown 346 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,360 and adapt to changing circumstances. 347 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:23,040 OK. 348 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,480 That's essential for navigating these complex challenges. 349 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:26,920 All right. 350 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,400 Deep breaths, embracing the unknown. 351 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:29,760 Yeah. 352 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Anything else? 353 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:31,920 Another key takeaway. 354 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:32,600 OK. 355 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,560 Is the importance of collaboration and co-creation. 356 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:37,360 Collaboration and co-creation? 357 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:38,000 Yes. 358 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,320 How so? 359 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,520 Wicked problems are too big and complex for any one person 360 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,880 or organization to solve alone. 361 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:45,520 Oh, yeah. 362 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:46,680 I can see that. 363 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:48,920 We need to bring together diverse perspectives. 364 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:49,360 OK. 365 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,120 And work together to find solutions that benefit 366 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:53,200 everyone's involved. 367 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,000 That makes sense. 368 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:54,280 Right. 369 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,720 Goes back to that idea of diversity being essential. 370 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:56,960 Right? 371 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:57,560 Exactly. 372 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:00,520 We need all those different viewpoints and experiences 373 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,040 to come up with solutions that actually work. 374 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:03,560 Absolutely. 375 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:06,640 And it's not just about finding common ground 376 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:07,640 or compromising. 377 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,240 It's about actively seeking out and learning 378 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,680 from those who have different experiences and perspectives 379 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:13,440 than our own. 380 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:13,800 Yeah. 381 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,920 That can be hard sometimes. 382 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:16,480 I know. 383 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,200 So being open to having our assumptions challenged, 384 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,120 even if it makes us uncomfortable. 385 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:24,040 That's the key. 386 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:24,560 Yeah. 387 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,160 Because sometimes the most innovative and effective 388 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,960 solutions come from unexpected places. 389 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:30,360 OK. 390 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:31,800 This is all starting to click. 391 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:32,240 Yeah. 392 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,400 But is there anything specific in the article 393 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,600 that speaks to this idea of collaboration and co-creation? 394 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:39,800 Hmm. 395 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:40,240 Let me think. 396 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,200 Any tools or frameworks we can use? 397 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,320 Actually, the article highlights two fascinating approaches. 398 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:46,800 OK. 399 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:47,520 I'm listening. 400 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,080 Herminotic thinking. 401 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:50,240 Herminotic thinking. 402 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:50,600 Yes. 403 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,720 And naturalistic inquiry. 404 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,000 Wow. 405 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,400 This sounds a bit academic. 406 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:55,960 They do. 407 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:56,840 But I'm intrigued. 408 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:57,400 Bear with me. 409 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:57,880 OK. 410 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,800 They have some really powerful applications 411 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,760 for everyday problem solving. 412 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:02,080 All right. 413 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,000 Let's unpack these. 414 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,240 OK. 415 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,200 Herminotic thinking. 416 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,560 What's that all about? 417 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:07,760 It's about understanding the relationship 418 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,080 between the parts and the whole. 419 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,680 It's a constant back and forth cycle 420 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:15,080 of refining your interpretation as you learn more. 421 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,080 So you're constantly going deeper. 422 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:17,320 Yeah. 423 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,160 Think about reading a complex novel. 424 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:19,720 Right. 425 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,760 You start with one understanding of a character. 426 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,000 Right. 427 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,240 But as you read on. 428 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:23,720 Yeah. 429 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Your interpretation changes based on new information 430 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:27,360 and context. 431 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,000 So it's about constantly revising your understanding 432 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:30,720 as you go. 433 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:31,160 Right. 434 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,120 Not being afraid to change your mind when 435 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:34,560 you encounter new information. 436 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:35,200 Exactly. 437 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:35,560 OK. 438 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:36,360 That's interesting. 439 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,600 And naturalistic inquiry takes this a step further. 440 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:39,960 OK. 441 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:40,560 I have so. 442 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:43,880 It acknowledges that reality is subjective 443 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:45,880 and influenced by our perspective. 444 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,160 Perspective reality. 445 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:47,440 Yeah. 446 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,800 It encourages us to consider multiple sources of data. 447 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:51,240 OK. 448 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,720 And to be aware of our own biases and assumptions 449 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,480 as we try to make sense of the world. 450 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,000 So recognizing that there's no single objective truth, 451 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,120 especially when it comes to wicked problems. 452 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:02,800 Precisely. 453 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:03,320 Hmm. 454 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,840 What we perceive as reality. 455 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:05,360 Yeah. 456 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,240 Is shaped by our own experiences, beliefs, and values. 457 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:08,560 Right. 458 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:11,720 And that means we need to actively seek out 459 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:12,800 different perspectives. 460 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:13,120 OK. 461 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,280 To get a more complete picture of the problem. 462 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,080 This is blowing my mind a little bit. 463 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:17,640 Really? 464 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,280 I'm starting to see how these concepts can apply even 465 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,600 outside of these big, wicked problems. 466 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:23,400 I know, right? 467 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,720 Like how often do we get stuck in our own ways of seeing things 468 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,400 and fail to consider other viewpoints? 469 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,240 All the time. 470 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:31,120 It's so true. 471 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,040 And naturalistic inquiry reminds us to step back and ask. 472 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:35,880 What's that? 473 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,320 What am I missing? 474 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,120 What are the perspectives might be out there? 475 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:39,480 OK. 476 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,240 I'm starting to feel a bit more equipped to tackle 477 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:43,480 these wicked problems. 478 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:43,960 Yeah. 479 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,000 But before we wrap up, I'm curious about something. 480 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,120 Who is that? 481 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,560 The article mentions that wicked problems don't have right 482 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:50,440 answers. 483 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:51,040 Yeah. 484 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,320 But does that mean there are NO general principles 485 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,440 or strategies that can help us address them? 486 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:58,480 Interesting question. 487 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,160 Or can we still learn from each other's experiences 488 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,120 and develop frameworks for tackling the wickedness 489 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,680 itself? 490 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:08,560 That is a fantastic question. 491 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,160 It's something I've been wondering about. 492 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,960 And it's one that we'll explore further in the final part 493 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:13,800 of this deep dive. 494 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:14,480 OK, I can't wait. 495 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,000 So stay tuned, folks, because we're 496 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 about to get really meta. 497 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,840 All right, so we've spent the last part of this deep dive 498 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,160 really getting into wicked problems. 499 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:23,660 Yeah. 500 00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:25,560 Those messy, interconnected challenges 501 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:28,040 that just seem to defy all our usual problem 502 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:29,680 solving tactics. 503 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,680 And honestly, it's been a bit of a mind-bending journey 504 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:33,400 so far. 505 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,440 It definitely is not your typical problem solving workshop. 506 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:37,080 I'll say. 507 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,120 But I think it's important to get comfortable 508 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:41,000 with that discomfort. 509 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,320 Yeah, why is that? 510 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,720 Well, because these wicked problems are all around us. 511 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:47,560 That's true. 512 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:48,060 You know? 513 00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:49,000 Yeah. 514 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,040 And at the end of the last part, you 515 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,320 posed a really thought-provoking question. 516 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:53,760 Oh, OK. 517 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,840 If wicked problems don't have right answers, 518 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:58,960 does that mean we're just flailing in the dark 519 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,840 every time we face one? 520 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,680 Can we really learn anything from past experiences? 521 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:04,400 Good question. 522 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,240 Or are we doomed to reinvent the wheel each time? 523 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,800 It's a question that's been debated for decades. 524 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,680 And to be honest, there's no easy answer. 525 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:14,180 OK. 526 00:14:14,180 --> 00:14:16,800 You know, every wicked problem is unique 527 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,600 and deeply embedded in its context. 528 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,600 But that doesn't mean we're completely helpless. 529 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,560 Oh, OK. 530 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:25,080 I'm ready for some hope here. 531 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:25,560 All right. 532 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:26,680 What can we do? 533 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,120 Well, while there may not be a single universal solution 534 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,240 to wickedness, there are certain frameworks and approaches 535 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,440 that can help us navigate these complex challenges 536 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:39,280 more effectively. 537 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:40,240 Give me an example. 538 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:40,580 OK. 539 00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:42,320 What kind of frameworks are we talking about? 540 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,320 One that comes to mind is design thinking. 541 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:45,680 Design thinking. 542 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,200 It's a human-centered approach. 543 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:47,880 All right. 544 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,400 That emphasizes empathy, experimentation, and iteration. 545 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,880 Empathy, experimentation, and iteration. 546 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,240 Yes. 547 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,160 I've heard of design thinking being used for things 548 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,240 like product development. 549 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,240 But how does that apply to solving something 550 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,760 as massive as, say, global poverty? 551 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:05,720 It's actually a surprisingly good fit. 552 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:06,440 Really? 553 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:06,880 Yeah. 554 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,040 Design thinking encourages us to start. 555 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:09,400 OK. 556 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,120 By deeply understanding the needs and perspectives 557 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,440 of the people affected by the problem. 558 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,440 So instead of coming up with solutions in a vacuum, 559 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,400 you're actually going out and talking to the people who 560 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,520 are experiencing the problem firsthand. 561 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:23,280 Exactly. 562 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,320 That's a good idea. 563 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,200 And it's not just about gathering data or conducting 564 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,120 surveys. 565 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,360 It's about truly empathizing with people's experiences, 566 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,200 understanding their motivations, and identifying 567 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,240 their unmet needs. 568 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,200 That sounds a lot like what we were talking about earlier 569 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:39,560 with naturalistic inquiry. 570 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:39,960 Yeah. 571 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,800 Acknowledging that everyone's reality 572 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,800 is shaped by their own experiences and perspectives. 573 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:45,600 You're right. 574 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,720 There's definitely some overlap there. 575 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:48,400 There is. 576 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,000 And just like naturalistic inquiry, design thinking 577 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,960 encourages us to embrace experimentation and iteration. 578 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:56,440 Exactly. 579 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,360 So it's about acknowledging that we're probably not 580 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,360 going to get it right on the first try. 581 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:00,800 Right. 582 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,720 But we can learn from our mistakes. 583 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:03,160 Yep. 584 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,320 And adjust our approach along the way. 585 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:06,120 That's the key. 586 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:06,920 I like that. 587 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,160 There's no expectation of finding the perfect solution 588 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,840 right out of the gate. 589 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,000 The magic is in the willingness to try things out. 590 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:15,560 OK. 591 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:16,440 See what works. 592 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:17,000 Yeah. 593 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,000 And continuously refine the approach. 594 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:19,400 Right. 595 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,960 Based on real world feedback. 596 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,560 This is starting to sound less intimidating 597 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,160 and more like something we can actually wrap our heads around. 598 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:28,720 That's the goal. 599 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,800 What other frameworks can help us untangle 600 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,200 these wicked problems. 601 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,320 Another one I find helpful is adaptive leadership. 602 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:37,280 Adaptive leadership. 603 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:37,680 Yeah. 604 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:38,160 OK. 605 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,200 It's a leadership style that recognizes 606 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,480 that complex challenges. 607 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:42,040 Right. 608 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,760 Often require adaptive change. 609 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,560 Not just technical solutions. 610 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,600 I think I need a bit more explanation on that one. 611 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:48,920 Sure. 612 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,280 What's the difference between adaptive change 613 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:52,720 and a technical solution. 614 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:53,600 Think of it this way. 615 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:54,080 OK. 616 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,400 Technical problems are those that can be solved 617 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,480 with existing knowledge and expertise. 618 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:58,960 OK. 619 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,960 Like fixing a broken engine or building a bridge. 620 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:02,320 All right. 621 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:02,800 I get it. 622 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,280 You have a clear set of steps. 623 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:04,840 Uh-huh. 624 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,520 And you know what the outcome should be. 625 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:07,040 Right. 626 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,640 Adaptive challenges on the other hand. 627 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:09,120 Yeah. 628 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:12,720 Require us to change our beliefs, values, or behaviors 629 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:13,760 to address the problem. 630 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:14,400 Oh wow. 631 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,760 So it's more about changing ourselves. 632 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:17,400 In a way. 633 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:17,680 Yeah. 634 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,760 So it's about challenging the status quo. 635 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,240 Being willing to rethink the way things are done. 636 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:23,800 Exactly. 637 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,200 And embracing new ways of working together. 638 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:26,880 You got it. 639 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:27,640 OK. 640 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,360 And adaptive leaders play a crucial role in this process. 641 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:31,000 Oh so. 642 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:32,520 They create space for dialogue. 643 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:32,960 Right. 644 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,320 Encourage experimentation. 645 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:34,800 Uh-huh. 646 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,360 And empower people to take ownership of the solution. 647 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:37,960 OK. 648 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,200 I'm seeing how these frameworks can be helpful. 649 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:40,440 Yeah. 650 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,600 But are there any limitations to them? 651 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,200 Hmm. 652 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,240 That's a good question. 653 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,400 Can they really make a dent in solving 654 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,240 the world's most pressing problems? 655 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,680 It's important to be realistic. 656 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:51,320 OK. 657 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,320 No framework is a magic bullet. 658 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:55,040 Right. 659 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,000 And there's no guarantee that any approach will completely 660 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,440 solve these incredibly complex problems. 661 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,280 So it's not about finding a silver bullet. 662 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:02,520 Right. 663 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,760 But about equipping ourselves with the right tools 664 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:05,840 and mindset. 665 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:06,080 Yeah. 666 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,360 To approach these problems in a more effective way. 667 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:09,360 Exactly. 668 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,200 And that's where these frameworks can be incredibly valuable. 669 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:12,840 I see. 670 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,440 They help us think more systematically, 671 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,080 collaborate more effectively. 672 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:16,600 Right. 673 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,880 And tap into our creativity to find 674 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,320 new and innovative approaches to these wicked problems. 675 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,440 This has been an incredibly insightful deep dive. 676 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,120 It has been. 677 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,680 We've learned so much about the nature of wicked problems. 678 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,320 Our traditional ways of thinking fall short. 679 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:33,000 Yeah. 680 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,600 And how we can equip ourselves with new approaches 681 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:36,960 to make a real difference. 682 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,560 It's been a pleasure diving up with you. 683 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,000 The feeling is mutual. 684 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,760 And remember, even though these problems 685 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,880 may feel overwhelming, we're not powerless in the face of them. 686 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:46,720 That's good to remember. 687 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,400 We all have the potential to be part of the solution. 688 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,680 Absolutely. 689 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,200 So to our listeners, I hope this deep dive has empowered you 690 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,320 to see wicked problems, not as insurmountable obstacles, 691 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,440 but as opportunities for creative problem solving 692 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:04,720 and collaborative action. 693 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,080 Well said. 694 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,480 Keep asking tough questions. 695 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:07,840 Yes. 696 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,760 Stay curious and never underestimate 697 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,720 the power of collective action. 698 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:14,800 Wise words. 699 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,080 And on that note, we'll wrap up this episode of the deep dive. 700 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:18,640 OK. 701 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,400 A huge thanks to our expert for joining us today. 702 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,480 Thank you for having me. 703 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,800 And to our listeners for taking this journey with us. 704 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:25,200 Yeah. 705 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:25,800 Thanks, everyone. 706 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,400 Until next time, keep diving deep. 707 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,400 All right, we're back for the final part of our deep dive 708 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,880 into wicked problems. 709 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,200 Those messy, interconnected challenges 710 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,040 that just love to keep us on our toes. 711 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:43,560 Right. 712 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,320 We've covered a lot of ground so far. 713 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:45,880 We have. 714 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,440 But I think it's time to circle back 715 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,520 to that thought-provoking question you left us with 716 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,640 at the end of the last part. 717 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:51,560 OK, shoot. 718 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,240 If wicked problems don't have right answers, 719 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,680 does that mean we're basically just throwing darts 720 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,400 in the dark every time we try to address one? 721 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,080 You can definitely feel that way sometimes. 722 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,640 Yeah, like, are we really able to learn anything 723 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,640 from past experiences with these problems? 724 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:06,160 Uh-huh. 725 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,240 Or are we just destined to start from scratch 726 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,640 with each new wicked problem that comes along? 727 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,840 That's a tough question. 728 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:12,920 Yeah, no kidding. 729 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,880 And honestly, there's no simple answer. 730 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:15,280 OK. 731 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,200 I mean, every wicked problem is so unique. 732 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:18,760 Right. 733 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,320 And so deeply rooted in its specific context. 734 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:22,880 Uh-huh. 735 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,240 So it's not like we can just pull out a cookie cutter solution. 736 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,920 Yeah, that would be nice, though, wouldn't it? 737 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:27,600 It would. 738 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,840 But that doesn't mean that we're completely helpless, right? 739 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:31,640 Definitely not. 740 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:32,400 OK. 741 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,360 I'm all ears. 742 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,840 So while there may not be a universal solution 743 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,400 to wicked problems, there are definitely 744 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,520 some helpful frameworks and approaches out there 745 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,120 that can help us navigate these complex challenges 746 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:48,200 more effectively. 747 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,200 I like the sound of that. 748 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:49,680 Yeah. 749 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,720 So what kind of frameworks are we talking about here? 750 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,320 Well, one that comes to mind is design thinking. 751 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,280 Design thinking? 752 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,160 Yeah, it's really cool, actually. 753 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,480 OK, tell me more. 754 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,360 So it's a human-centered approach. 755 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:02,080 You're right. 756 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,320 That really emphasizes empathy experimentation and iteration. 757 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,440 Empathy experimentation and iteration. 758 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:09,960 Yep, those are the key ingredients. 759 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,800 I've heard of design thinking being used in product 760 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:13,840 development and stuff. 761 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,800 But how does that apply to tackling something 762 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,280 as massive as global poverty? 763 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,360 It's a great question. 764 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:21,080 Yeah. 765 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,520 But design thinking can actually 766 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,840 be a surprisingly good fit for those kinds of wicked problems. 767 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:27,480 Really? 768 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,200 Yeah. 769 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,080 It encourages us to start by really deeply understanding 770 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,160 the needs and perspectives of the people who are actually 771 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,800 being affected by the problem. 772 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,400 OK, so instead of just sitting in a room brainstorming 773 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,120 solutions, you're actually going out 774 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,400 and talking to the people who are living with the problem 775 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,120 every day. 776 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:44,680 Exactly. 777 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:45,760 That makes a lot of sense. 778 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,160 Yeah, and it goes beyond just gathering data 779 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,320 or conducting surveys. 780 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:49,920 Oh, OK. 781 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,360 It's about truly empathizing with their experiences, 782 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:56,560 understanding their motivations, and then 783 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,760 figuring out what their unmet needs are. 784 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,320 That sounds a lot like what we were discussing earlier 785 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,160 with naturalistic inquiry. 786 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:03,920 It does, doesn't it? 787 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,880 Recognizing that everyone's reality 788 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,040 is shaped by their own unique experiences and perspectives? 789 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:09,560 Absolutely. 790 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,200 So there's definitely some overlap there. 791 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,080 There is, for sure. 792 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,320 So with design thinking, it's not 793 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,520 about coming up with the perfect solution right off the bat. 794 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,280 It's more about being willing to experiment and try things out, 795 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,600 learn from what works and what doesn't, 796 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,320 and then keep iterating and refining your approach based 797 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,160 on that real world feedback. 798 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,200 That's the beauty of it. 799 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,040 I'm starting to see how this could be a really powerful tool 800 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,160 for tackling wicked problems. 801 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:36,680 It is. 802 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,880 So what other frameworks can help us unravel 803 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,480 these messy challenges? 804 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,600 Another one that's really helpful is adaptive leadership. 805 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:45,720 Adaptive leadership. 806 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,320 Yeah. 807 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,000 Have you heard of it? 808 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,080 It rings a bell, but I think I need a little refresher. 809 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:49,720 Sure. 810 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,120 What is adaptive leadership all about? 811 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:55,960 It's a leadership style that recognizes that sometimes the 812 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,040 best way to tackle a complex challenge isn't 813 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,040 by finding a quick technical fix. 814 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:02,960 Oh, interesting. 815 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,280 It's about realizing that sometimes we 816 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,720 need to make deeper changes. 817 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:07,880 Like what kind of changes? 818 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,560 Sometimes we need to actually change our own beliefs, values, 819 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:11,640 or behaviors. 820 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,120 Wow. 821 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:16,120 So it's about more than just finding the right solution. 822 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:16,560 It is. 823 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,320 It's about being willing to change ourselves in the process. 824 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,040 You got it. 825 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:21,400 OK. 826 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,720 That's a powerful idea. 827 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:22,920 Yeah. 828 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,720 And adaptive leaders can play a really important role in this. 829 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,320 How so? 830 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,560 Well, they're the ones who create space for open dialogue 831 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:29,760 and honest conversations. 832 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:30,280 Right. 833 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,800 They encourage experimentation and taking risks. 834 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:33,360 OK. 835 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,760 And they really empower people to step up and take ownership 836 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:37,960 of finding solutions. 837 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,480 It sounds like adaptive leadership 838 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,960 is all about creating the right conditions for change 839 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:43,600 to happen. 840 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:44,040 It is. 841 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,400 Both within ourselves and within our systems. 842 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,080 Exactly. 843 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,240 So we've got design thinking and adaptive leadership. 844 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:50,520 Yep. 845 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,080 Two powerful frameworks. 846 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,040 They sound really promising. 847 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:54,680 They are. 848 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,440 But can they really make a difference 849 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,600 when it comes to solving these massive global challenges? 850 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,280 That's the million dollar question, isn't it? 851 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:01,720 Yeah. 852 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,160 And it's important to be realistic. 853 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:03,720 OK. 854 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,840 Like I said earlier, there's no magic bullet for wicked problems. 855 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:07,840 Right. 856 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,280 And no framework is going to single-handedly solve 857 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,960 climate change or world hunger. 858 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,920 So it's not about finding that one perfect solution. 859 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:15,400 Right. 860 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,560 It's more about equipping ourselves 861 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,720 with the right tools and the right mindset. 862 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:21,440 Exactly. 863 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,600 To approach these complex challenges in a more effective 864 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,280 and maybe a more hopeful way. 865 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,600 I think that's a great way to put it. 866 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,680 Well, this has been a truly fascinating deep dive. 867 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:31,920 And I think. 868 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,760 We've learned so much about what makes 869 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,960 wicked problems so wicked. 870 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:36,400 Yeah. 871 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,560 How our usual ways of thinking often fall short. 872 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,880 And most importantly, how we can start to shift our thinking. 873 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,080 Yeah. 874 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,120 And find new and more creative ways 875 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,040 to tackle these challenges together. 876 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,400 I've really enjoyed diving into this with you. 877 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,760 The feeling is mutual. 878 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,480 And I hope our listeners are walking away 879 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,000 with a sense of hope and maybe even a little bit of excitement. 880 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:56,800 Yeah, me too. 881 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,000 Because even though wicked problems can feel overwhelming. 882 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:00,480 They can. 883 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,600 And we're not powerless in the face of them. 884 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:03,520 Absolutely not. 885 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,560 We all have a role to play in finding solutions. 886 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,480 So to our listeners out there, I hope this deep dive has left 887 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,840 you feeling a little more empowered. 888 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,640 And a little less intimidated by the wicked problems 889 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,680 that we all face. 890 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:16,400 That's the goal. 891 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,680 Keep those questions coming. 892 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,200 Keep that curiosity alive. 893 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,920 And never underestimate the power of working together 894 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:22,800 to make a difference. 895 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,080 Well, I'll cut. 896 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,080 And on that note, we'll wrap up this episode of the deep dive. 897 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,120 It's been a pleasure. 898 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,880 A huge thanks to our expert for sharing your wisdom with us 899 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:32,360 today. 900 00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:33,560 Thank you for having me. 901 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,320 And of course, to our amazing listeners 902 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:36,840 for joining us on this journey. 903 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,440 Yeah, thanks, everyone. 904 00:25:38,440 --> 00:26:00,080 Until next time, keep diving deep.