You know, it seems like schools are always trying to get better,
you know, like always rolling out some new thing,
trying to find that like magic solution, right?
Right?
Like how do we boost test scores
or how do we get kids more engaged?
Yeah, that's a great point.
But what if instead of just like chasing the next trend,
Yeah.
There was a better way to kind of plan for change,
you know, more thoughtfully.
Like an architect would like design a building.
Yeah, I think that's a really good analogy
because you're right.
Okay.
Schools a lot of times fall back on these same planning methods
that don't really work, right?
For the complexity of a classroom.
Yeah, they're not really designed for that, are they?
And that's really where educational design research
or EDR comes in.
EDR.
Okay.
I'm intrigued.
Tell me more.
Sure.
So for this deep dive, we're actually looking at an excerpt
from a blog called hackscience.education.
Okay.
There's an article there called
Educational Design Research, an Emerging Planning Tool.
Okay.
It was posted on December 11th, 2017
and last updated on January 25th, 2025.
So it's pretty recent.
Brought you.
And they really dive into how school leaders
are looking for like a more sophisticated approach.
Yeah.
Not just like a quick fix.
It's like the difference between putting a bandaid
on something and actually like treating the underlying cause.
Oh, that's a good way to put it.
Yeah.
So traditional planning models,
I think often miss that deeper level.
Okay.
So walk me through this.
What do those traditional planning models actually look like
when you see them in a school?
Yeah.
And like where do they tend to go wrong?
Well, imagine a school that's struggling
with low student engagement in math.
Right.
A traditional approach might be to say,
okay, well we've identified the problem.
Let's implement a new curriculum.
Right.
Gather some data and see if it worked.
Right.
If not, we just kind of tweak and repeat.
Yeah.
That makes sense on the surface.
Right.
Like the classic problem solution model.
Yeah.
But I have a feeling you're gonna tell me there's a catch.
Yeah, there's a bit of a catch.
Oh no.
Because schools are not simple machines.
You can't just swap out a part
and expect it to work perfectly.
Right.
There are so many different factors at play.
Yeah.
Think about student backgrounds,
teacher experience the culture of the school.
Even things happening outside of the school.
Right.
Yeah, it's like that whole thing of like predicting the weather.
Yes.
There's so many factors influencing that outcome.
It's so complex.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And so that's why this really linear planning model
often falls short because it oversimplifies things
and doesn't really account for how all these factors
are connected.
Right.
So you just end up chasing symptoms
instead of really getting to that root cause.
Yeah.
Just putting band-aids on things.
Oh man.
Yeah.
Okay, so EDR, this educational design research
is about going deeper.
Yes.
They call it an emerging planning tool in this article.
Right.
What makes it so different?
Well, there are five key characteristics
that really set EDR apart from those traditional models.
Five.
Okay.
Put it up late on me.
Okay, so first it's theoretically oriented.
And this means that it's grounded in existing research
and educational theory.
So you're not just like throwing things at the wall
and seeing what sticks?
No, you're not just guessing.
Okay, that's good.
There's a solid foundation of knowledge backing it up.
Right.
So there's a reason why you're doing what you're doing.
Exactly.
But EDR is also designed to help generate new knowledge.
Oh, okay.
It's about building on what we know
while also pushing the boundaries.
So you're not just taking existing solutions
and applying them.
You're actually trying to discover new things too.
Exactly.
That's awesome.
Okay, so what else makes EDR stand out?
The second characteristic is that it's interventionist.
Interventionist, okay.
It's not just about coming up with theories.
It's about designing and implementing practical interventions.
Okay.
To improve teaching and learning.
So you're actually taking action.
You're making a difference in the real world.
Not just having these hypothetical conversations.
Yeah, not just academic exercises.
Gotcha.
I can see how that would appeal to a lot of educators.
Right.
Because they want to see results.
Yeah, they want to see change in their classrooms.
Okay, number three.
So the third characteristic is that it's collaborative.
Okay.
EDR recognizes that the best solutions come
from getting lots of different perspectives.
Makes sense.
So it involves teachers, administrators,
students, even parents sometimes in the process.
Oh wow, so it's really like getting everyone at the table.
Yeah.
To share their insights and experiences.
Like, exactly.
Cool, what about the last two?
Okay, so the fourth characteristic
is that it's naturalistic.
Naturalistic, okay.
This means that EDR takes place in real classrooms
with real students and teachers.
So it's not like you're doing it in a lab.
Yeah.
You're actually observing and gathering information.
In the actual environment.
Right, where the learning is happening.
That's right.
Okay, cool.
And the last one.
And finally, it's iterative.
Iterative.
We don't just design a solution and say, okay, we're done.
We test it, we refine it, we test it again,
and we just keep going until we get it right.
So it's constantly being refined and improved.
Yes.
There's no like set it and forget it solution.
Right, EDR acknowledges that learning
and teaching their dynamic, they're always changing.
Right.
And our approaches need to be flexible and adaptable too.
Okay, I like that.
Yeah.
It seems much more realistic.
Yeah.
And responsive to how complex education is.
Right.
Now I'm curious about how all of this actually plays out
in a school.
Yeah.
The article mentions that these insights about EDR
were actually taken from a book called
Efficacious Technology Management,
a guide for school leaders.
Oh, wow.
And it's available under Creative Commons.
Awesome.
I wonder if that book goes into some more specific examples.
I think it does.
Okay, cool, cool.
So we've talked about like the characteristics of EDR.
Yeah.
How does it actually work when you put it into practice
in a school setting?
Yeah.
What are like the steps involved?
Well, you can kind of think of EDR
as like a three phase cycle.
Okay.
The first phase is analysis or exploration.
Okay.
Then there's design and construction
and then finally reflection and evaluation.
So each of those phases builds on the one before it.
Right.
And that leads to like a deeper understanding
and better solutions.
Yeah.
I like to picture it as a spiral
that's constantly moving upwards.
Oh, like that visual.
Okay, break it down for me.
Okay.
So let's say a school is having trouble getting teachers
to adopt a new learning platform.
Okay.
In that first phase analysis and exploration,
they would really dig deep into the problem.
Okay.
Not just looking at like,
oh, the adoption rate is low,
but really trying to understand why are teachers hesitant?
Right.
So it's about understanding the why.
Yeah.
What are their concerns?
What are their needs?
Not just the what?
Exactly.
Once they have a good understanding of the why
behind the problem,
then they can move on to that design and construction phase.
Gotcha.
And here it's about brainstorming
and coming up with interventions
that address those specific challenges.
So like if teachers are worried
about the platform being too time consuming,
maybe the intervention would focus on
like making the workflows better.
Yes.
Or giving them more support.
Exactly.
And this is where that collaboration piece is so important.
Yeah.
The design team might include teachers,
tech specialists, instructional coaches, even students.
Wow.
The goal is to create solutions
that are really practical and relevant
and tailored to the needs of that school.
This is where it starts to feel really different
from that like top down way of planning.
Yes.
Yeah.
Very different.
Okay.
And it's important to remember that EDR is iterative.
Right.
So designing construction is not just like a one time thing.
Okay.
It's about ongoing experimentation
and refining based on what's working and what's not.
So it's not about finding that perfect solution right away.
Right.
It's more about creating something
that can change and adapt over time.
Exactly.
Okay.
And that brings us to that final phase,
that reflection and evaluation phase.
Okay.
This is where the school really looks
at the impact of those interventions.
So like did that adoption rate actually go up?
Yeah.
Did teachers feel more confident using the new platform?
Did it work?
Yeah.
Why or why not?
Yeah.
And that's it.
So you can take all that data and use it
to keep improving the design.
Exactly.
But it sounds like it's also about understanding
the reasons behind the results.
It is.
It worked well.
What could be better?
What new things did we learn about our teachers,
our students and like our whole school
as a learning organization?
That's right.
It's about getting that deeper understanding.
This is fascinating.
Yeah.
We're really starting to see how much deeper EDR is
compared to traditional planning.
I think so.
It's like you're not just solving the problem.
You're actually learning more about the whole system.
You're becoming a learning organization.
Yes.
Is there anything about EDR
that might surprise our listeners?
Something that might challenge their assumptions
about how change happens in schools?
Well, one thing that I think often surprises people
is the role of emergence in EDR.
Emergence, okay.
Even though it's a structured approach,
it's also incredibly flexible.
Okay.
Sometimes the best solutions are not the ones
that you plan for.
They kind of emerge organically through that process
of experimenting and refining.
So you're saying that there's this element of discovery.
Yeah.
Of like letting go a little bit
and seeing what happens?
Yeah.
Embracing the unexpected.
Okay.
EDR is about acknowledging that complexity.
Not oversimplifying it.
And being open to that journey of discovery.
Exactly.
I love that.
Yeah.
It feels much more like how learning really happens.
It does.
Okay.
But I have to ask.
Yeah.
All this sounds great for people who work in education.
Right.
But why should our listeners
who might not work in a school care about EDR?
That's a great question.
What's the relevance for them?
And that's what I think is so exciting about EDR
because it's not just a tool for education.
Okay.
It's a way of thinking that can be applied to any field
where you're trying to create change
in a really complex system.
Ooh.
Okay.
I'm all ears.
Okay.
So think about healthcare business,
even social justice movements.
Yeah.
You're dealing with complex human behavior
interconnected systems.
Great.
And you need solutions that are actually
gonna work long term.
Yeah.
And that provides a framework for approaching
these challenges that goes beyond those superficial fixes.
So instead of trying to force a solution,
you're really taking time to understand the system.
Yes.
Involve the people who are a part of it.
Yeah.
And design interventions that actually respond
to the needs of the situation.
That's exactly right.
Okay.
I'm starting to see the connections here.
Good.
And because EDR is iterative,
you're constantly learning and adapting.
It has to be.
Along the way.
That's right.
It's not about being right the first time.
It's about being willing to experiment.
Yeah.
And maybe fail.
And learn from those failures.
And continuously get better.
Yes.
This is making me think of all sorts of things
outside of education.
Me too.
So listener, as we kind of wrap up this part of our deep dive.
Yeah.
We wanna leave you with a question.
Okay.
How could EDR apply to your field or your area of interest?
What complex challenges are you facing
that might benefit from a more nuanced and iterative approach?
I like it.
Take a moment to think about that
as we head into our next segment.
Sounds good.
You know what's really interesting about EDR?
It's not just about like figuring out what works.
Right.
But it's about understanding why something works.
Right.
Like what's the reason behind it?
Exactly.
And that's where you get those like real aha moments.
The ones that really change how you think about things.
Yeah.
I love those aha moments.
Oh yeah.
Me too.
It's a little burst of insight.
Holy.
And it just like shifts your whole perspective.
And EDR is really all about encouraging those moments.
Okay.
By like carefully looking at data,
observing things in the real world.
Right.
And then thinking about what we've learned.
Yeah.
We can get a much deeper understanding
of why things work or why they don't.
So it's not just about like finding that quick fix.
No.
But it's about finding those like fundamental principles.
Just check it.
That can lead to real lasting change.
Yes.
And it's about understanding the root causes.
Right.
How everything is connected.
Yeah.
And there's complex dynamics that like traditional planning
often misses.
And because EDR involves like lots of different people
throughout the process.
Yeah.
You're more likely to get people to actually buy
into the solution.
Absolutely.
And support them.
Yeah.
Because when people feel like they've been a part
of finding the solution.
Right.
They're much more invested in seeing it succeed.
They're not just being told what to do.
Exactly.
They actually understand why they're doing it.
Yeah.
That shared understanding makes a huge difference.
Absolutely.
So collaboration is really key in EDR.
It's essential.
It's not just about like one person dictating the answers.
Yeah.
It's about bringing all those different viewpoints together.
Right.
And working together to find the best solution.
I love that analogy.
It's like that saying if you want to go fast, go alone.
But if you want to go far, go together.
Yes.
Exactly.
EDR really embraces that philosophy.
It does.
So to recap what we've talked about.
EDR is kind of like this powerful magnifying glass.
I like that.
That helps you zoom in on these complex problems.
Yeah.
Uncover the root causes and design interventions.
That are actually going to work in less.
I like that analogy.
It captures it perfectly.
EDR is not about making things seem simpler than they are.
No.
Or forcing solutions on people.
It's about acknowledging that complexity.
Right.
And using it to learn and come up with new ideas.
Okay, listener.
I have a question for you.
Yep.
Think about a challenge you're facing right now.
Maybe at work in your community
or even in your personal life.
Yeah.
Something that feels stuck.
I like that.
You just can't find an easy answer.
I got it.
Now imagine approaching that challenge using EDR.
Okay.
How would that change your perspective?
Mm-hmm.
What new possibilities might you see?
That's a powerful question.
It is, isn't it?
It really makes you think differently
about how change happens.
Yeah.
It's not about finding a quick fix
or telling people what to do.
It's about understanding the whole situation
involving the people who are affected by it
and working together to create something better.
Now you mentioned that the book,
Efficacious Technology Management.
Yes.
Has some specific examples of EDR in action.
It does.
Are there any cases that really stand out to you?
Yeah.
There's one case study that I always find really interesting.
Okay, tell me about it.
It's about a school district that was struggling
with students not being engaged in online learning.
Oh yeah.
That's a common problem these days.
It is.
They probably spent a lot of money on new technology.
They did.
But the teachers didn't really want to use it.
Right, and the students weren't seeing the benefits.
So what do they do?
Did they just buy more technology?
Yeah, they was gonna ask,
did they just like throw more technology at the problem?
No, they actually took an EDR approach.
They formed a design team with teachers,
students, administrators, and technology experts.
Wow, so they got everyone involved.
They did.
And they spent time observing classrooms,
talking to people and analyzing data
to really understand why things weren't working.
So they did their research before jumping into solutions.
Exactly.
What did they find?
Well, they found that the teachers felt overwhelmed
by all the new technology.
Yeah, that makes sense.
They didn't have enough training or support.
Okay.
And they were worried about
how it would affect their teaching.
Right.
The students, on the other hand,
felt like the online environment was isolating.
And they weren't getting enough interaction.
So it wasn't really a technology problem.
Right.
It was more of a people problem.
It was about how people felt about the technology.
About the training and the support and all that.
Exactly.
And that's what EDR helps them to see.
Okay.
And once they understood the real issues,
they could start to design solutions
that actually addressed those needs.
So what did those solutions look like?
Well, they created a bunch of professional development
workshops for teachers.
Okay.
To help them learn how to use the technology better.
Right.
And how to make it part of their lesson.
They also changed the online learning platform
to make it more interactive.
Oh, cool.
So students could do things like video chat work
on projects together and get personalized feedback.
So they were tackling the problem
from lots of different angles.
Did they?
Looking at both the technology side and the human side.
Yes.
And it worked.
It did.
They saw a big increase in both teachers
using the technology.
Wow.
And students being engaged.
That's amazing.
The teachers felt more confident and comfortable.
Okay.
And the students actually enjoyed being online.
That's a great example of how EDR can lead to real change.
It is.
It's not just a theory.
It's something that can actually make a difference.
And what's even more impressive
is that the change has lasted.
Oh, wow.
The school district kept using EDR.
Okay.
And they kept making things better
based on what they were learning.
So they created a system that was constantly evolving.
They did.
That's the power of EDR.
It is.
It's not just about solving one problem.
Right.
It's about creating a system
that can learn and adapt.
Exactly.
So, listener, as we move into our final segment,
I want you to keep that idea in mind.
Okay.
EDR is not just about fixing things.
Right.
It's a way of thinking a mindset
that can help us deal with the challenges of the world.
And make things better for everyone.
I agree.
Yeah.
That story is a great example
of how EDR can really change your thinking.
Yeah.
Instead of just trying to fix a problem.
Yeah.
Like building a better system.
You're getting to the root of it.
Yeah.
It's not just about putting out fires.
No.
You're creating something that's more resilient.
Right.
And adaptable.
And that really responds to the people involved.
And that's what I find so exciting about EDR.
Yeah.
It's not just a tool for education.
It's something that anyone can use
to make positive changes.
Exactly.
In any complex situation.
So, listener, if you're feeling inspired
by what you've heard today.
Yeah.
We encourage you to like take this conversation
beyond the podcast.
Yeah.
Think about it.
Think about the challenges you see in your own life,
your work, your community.
Yeah.
How could you make a difference?
But EDR help you make a difference.
Yeah.
Could those principles of collaboration.
Right.
Iteration deep understanding.
Help you.
Make a change.
It's about moving beyond those like quick fixes.
Yeah.
The band-aid solutions.
The band-aids, yeah.
It's about embracing the complexity.
Working together.
Yeah.
And always trying to get better.
And believing that even small changes
can make a big difference.
As long as they're thoughtful and intentional.
Exactly.
So as we wrap up this deep dive
into educational design research.
OK.
We want to leave you with a final thought.
OK.
If EDR is a tool that helps us tackle those complex problems.
Right.
What kind of world could we create if we all used it?
Think about it.
What if we applied EDR to things like health care business.
Yeah.
Even politics.
Yeah.
What if we stopped blaming each other.
Right.
And actually started working together.
And like really understood the systems we're working with.
To find solutions that help everyone.
What if we embraced a culture of always getting better.
Yeah.
Where we learn from our mistakes.
And adapt to new information.
It's a challenging vision.
It is.
But I think EDR gives us a way to get there.
A roadmap.
Mm-hmm.
For dealing with the complexity of the world today.
And creating a better future for everyone.
Exactly.
So listener go out there and be a change maker.
Yeah.
Embrace the power of EDR.
I agree.
And let's build that world together.
One step at a time.
One thoughtful step at a time.
Yeah.
yeah.