Welcome back everybody for another deep dive.
This time we're gonna be taking a look at something
that's pretty fundamental to human history communication.
That's right.
But not just any kind of communication.
We're going way back to a time before writing even existed
and exploring how people in proliterate cultures
managed to share knowledge and ideas.
I mean, it's mind blowing when you think about it.
Absolutely.
I mean, like how did they pass down complex information,
history, practical skills, all without a single written word.
We're gonna be diving into an excerpt from interaction
in proliterate cultures, from hack science at education.
Okay.
And it's pretty fascinating stuff.
I mean, just to kick things off, here's a crazy thought.
You know how many languages roughly existed
in the 20th century?
Oh gosh, I don't know, thousands.
About 10,000.
Oh wow.
And guess how many of those had a written form?
A couple of hundred.
Only about a hundred.
Wow.
So for most of human history, oral communication was king.
So really like all of human history,
up until a certain point,
was based on just oral communication and storytelling.
Yeah, it's hard for us to imagine, right?
Living in a world so saturated with text, you know?
But for millennia, that was the norm.
And these cultures developed incredibly sophisticated ways
of communicating and transmitting knowledge
without relying on the written word.
Yeah, and that's what we're gonna be exploring today, right?
Exactly.
What were those ways?
How did it actually work?
Can you imagine living in a world
where you couldn't just Google something
or look it up in a book?
It's definitely a challenge to wrap our heads around.
I mean, we're so used to having information
at our fingertips.
But think about it.
It also means that knowledge was something
that was actively lived and experienced.
It wasn't just passively consumed.
Yeah, and that's one of the things
that our source really digs into
is this idea of primary orality, right?
Cultures where oral communication is,
is just like the dominant form of sharing knowledge.
And one of the really interesting things
that they talk about is how inclusive these cultures were.
Because today we think about literacy, right?
And there's often like social hierarchies
based on who can read and write,
who has access to information.
But in primarily oral cultures,
practically everyone is participating
in the communication process.
Have you ever felt excluded
or like you couldn't really participate in something
because of your level of literacy
or something like that?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
I mean, even just think about
navigating certain websites or online platforms.
If you're not familiar with the jargon or the interface,
it can be incredibly difficult.
And the source, it actually quotes a J
who points out that indigenous communication systems
are often second nature and intrinsically interactive.
And he contrasts that with our modern,
technology-based media,
which often require these significant lifestyle changes
just to participate.
Think about it, if you wanna engage
in a discussion on social media,
you have to have a device, you have to have internet access,
you have to have a certain level of digital literacy.
It's not something that's just inherently accessible
to everyone in the same way that oral communication is.
That's a really good point.
Like it's built into the system.
It is.
That there's gonna be some people who are excluded
just by the nature of the system itself.
Exactly, and that creates these really interesting dynamics
in terms of how knowledge is shared,
how power is distributed,
and even how we perceive ourselves
and our place in the world.
Okay, so let's dive into that a little bit more.
Okay.
Like specifically, how did they pass down information
in those cultures?
Okay, well that's where the power of narrative
really comes in.
Think myths, stories, oral literature.
These weren't just forms of entertainment,
they were the primary repositories of knowledge.
So instead of textbooks and scientific journals,
they had stories.
Exactly, and they were incredibly effective
at preserving and transmitting information
across generations.
I mean, think about it, what's more memorable?
A dry list of facts or a captivating story.
Oh, definitely a story.
You know, you hear a good story, it sticks with you.
Absolutely.
And that's what made stories such powerful tools
in pre-lettered cultures.
They could convey complex ideas, moral lessons,
historical events, all within a framework
that was engaging and memorable.
And it wasn't just about memorizing the stories verbatim
either, these stories evolved over time.
They were constantly being retold,
reinterpreted, adapted to new circumstances.
So it wasn't like a fixed text?
Not at all, it was a living tradition,
a dynamic process of knowledge creation
and transmission.
That's fascinating.
So how did they ensure accuracy, though?
You know, if the stories are constantly changing,
how do you prevent things from getting distorted
or lost in translation?
Well, it's important to remember that in pre-literate cultures,
storytelling wasn't a solitary activity.
It was a communal experience.
Stories were told and retold in group settings,
often with active participation from the audience.
So it's almost like a performance, right?
It is, and that collective engagement
helped to ensure a certain level of accuracy and consistency.
OK.
Because if someone started telling a story that deviated
too far from the accepted version,
the community would correct them.
It was a process of collective memory
and shared responsibility.
It was like a built-in fact-checking system.
Exactly.
And this highlights a really important point
about pre-literate cultures.
Knowledge wasn't seen as something
that was owned by individuals.
It was a shared resource, a collective inheritance that
belonged to the entire community.
OK, so it wasn't just about the story itself.
It was about the context, the community,
the shared experience of telling and retelling the story.
Exactly.
And that's why understanding pre-literate communication
goes beyond just looking at the content of the stories.
It's about understanding the social dynamics,
the cultural values, the entire system of knowledge, creation,
and transmission that surrounded those stories.
That makes sense.
So they weren't just telling stories for fun.
It was a vital part of how they understood the world
and passed down knowledge.
Absolutely.
And one really interesting observation
about this comes from Havlock, a hero back in 1986.
And he pointed out that oral cultures tend
to describe heroic individuals more by their actions, what
they did, whereas literate cultures
tend to focus more on their characteristics,
like what kind of person they were,
their personality traits.
And that's a really subtle, the profound difference.
It speaks to the way these cultures valued
and transmitted knowledge.
So in an oral culture, they might
tell a story about a hero who slew the giant beast
and saved the village, whereas a literate culture might
describe the hero as brave and selfless.
Exactly.
And focusing on actions keeps the story dynamic.
It allows for different versions
to emerge as the story is retold and adapted
by each generation.
Right.
Because it's not about locking down
a specific interpretation.
It's about conveying the essence of the event,
the lessons learned.
Exactly.
And it leaves room for interpretation,
for different perspectives, for the story
to evolve as the culture itself evolves.
That's really fascinating.
So the stories themselves weren't static.
They were constantly being reshaped and reinterpreted.
Exactly.
It was a fluid dynamic process of knowledge creation
and transmission.
Which makes sense, right.
Because if your survival depends on having
accurate knowledge, you can't afford for it to become stagnant.
That's a great point.
Knowledge in these cultures had to be adaptable,
responsive to new challenges, and open to new insights.
So this whole idea of memory becomes crucial, right?
Because if you don't have written records,
you have to rely on your memory to preserve all this knowledge.
Absolutely.
And preliterate cultures developed some truly impressive
techniques for enhancing memory.
Like what?
Do they all have photographic memories or something?
Well, not exactly.
But they did develop really effective mnemonic strategies.
For example, repetition was key.
Stories were told and retold.
Reinforcing the information over and over again.
They also incorporated rhythm and patterns into the stories,
making them easier to remember.
And don't forget the power of music and dance.
These were often integral parts of storytelling,
adding a sensory layer that helps solidify memories.
Think of it like those mnemonic devices we still use today,
you know, like acronyms or rhymes.
Oh, yeah.
Like every good boy deserves fudge
for remembering the notes on the lines of the treble clef.
Exactly.
Those techniques are rooted in the same principles
that preliterate cultures use to enhance memory.
But in those cultures, these techniques
were even more ingrained, more woven into the fabric
of daily life.
So it wasn't just one person's memory carrying
the weight of all that knowledge?
Right.
It was a collective effort.
The community itself acted as a living repository of knowledge,
constantly reinforcing and updating information
through shared experiences and storytelling.
That's amazing.
It's like having a whole village worth of hard drives backing
up your most important data.
That's a great analogy.
And this idea of collective social memory
is one of the things that makes preliterate cultures so
resilient.
Right.
Because even if one person forgets something,
there are others who can remember and share it.
Exactly.
It's a system of distributed knowledge,
which makes it incredibly robust and adaptable.
So we've talked about stories, memory, community.
But what about learning new things in the first place?
Like how did they acquire new skills and knowledge
in a world without schools and universities?
Well, they had something that in some ways
was even more effective, apprenticeships.
Apprenticeships.
Yeah.
Think about learning a trade by working side by side
with a master craftsman.
Oh, OK.
Yeah.
That was the primary way knowledge
was passed down in preliterate cultures.
And it wasn't just for trades like blacksmithing or pottery.
Apprenticeships encompassed all sorts of essential skills,
from hunting and gathering to healing and storytelling.
It was like a really immersive form of education, wasn't it?
You're not just reading about something in a book.
You're actually doing it, learning by experience.
Exactly.
And that hands-on experience was crucial for developing
a deep understanding of the skill or knowledge being passed down.
It makes me think about all the things we learn today
through trial and error, like cooking or gardening.
Absolutely.
And in preliterate cultures, that kind of experiential learning
was central to education.
It wasn't just about acquiring information.
It was about developing a deep understanding,
a mastery of the skill or knowledge being learned.
I guess when your survival depends on knowing how to do something,
you learn it pretty quickly.
That's a great point.
Necessity is often the mother of invention.
And in preliterate cultures, the need to survive and thrive
drove the development of incredibly sophisticated knowledge systems.
And apprenticeships weren't just about practical skills, were they?
I mean, they also played a role in transmitting cultural values,
beliefs, ways of understanding the world.
That's right.
Apprenticeships were a holistic form of education.
They weren't just about teaching specific skills.
They were about shaping individuals into contributing members of the community.
It's fascinating to think about the pros and cons of apprenticeships
compared to the formal education systems we have today.
On the one hand, you get that personalized attention,
the direct application of knowledge.
But on the other hand, it might limit access to certain types of knowledge
or create a more rigid social structure.
It's definitely a trade-off.
But it's important to remember that for centuries,
apprenticeship was the primary way humanity ensured the survival
and evolution of its knowledge and skills.
It really makes you realize how adaptable humans are, doesn't it?
We find ways to learn and share knowledge,
even without the tools and structures we rely on today.
Exactly.
And by understanding these preliterate cultures,
we can gain a deeper appreciation for the fundamental ways
in which we, as humans, learn and communicate.
It's like uncovering a hidden history of our own minds.
It makes you wonder what other amazing things
we might discover about ourselves
by looking back at these ancient ways of knowing and being.
It's a journey worth taking.
And as we continue to explore this world before writing,
I think you'll be amazed by the ingenuity and sophistication
of these preliterate cultures.
Well, I'm definitely hooked.
I can't wait to dive deeper into this.
Let's continue our exploration.
So picking up where we left off,
it really gets you thinking about how these cultures dealt
with new information.
You know, we've been talking about how knowledge is passed down
through stories and apprenticeships.
But was that knowledge set in stone?
Did they ever resist new ideas?
Or were they constantly updating and evolving
their understanding of the world?
Yeah, it's like if somebody discovered a new way to hunt
or a new plant that could be used for medicine,
how would that get integrated into the collective knowledge?
Was there any pushback or were they pretty open to change?
Well, it's important to remember that in oral cultures,
knowledge isn't confined to written texts, right?
It's a living thing.
It's constantly being shared and reshaped
through dialogue and interaction.
If you learn something new, you don't just write it down
and put it on a shelf.
You share it with your family, your community.
And in that process, that knowledge gets woven
into the existing tapestry of understanding.
So it's kind of like a constant process
of collective learning and adaptation.
Not like today where you might have to wait for a textbook
to be updated or a new scientific paper to be published.
Exactly.
And because of this constant exchange,
oral cultures tend to be incredibly adaptable.
New discoveries or challenges can
be integrated into their understanding of the world
relatively seamlessly.
It's not like those situations where a new scientific discovery
comes out and it takes, I don't know,
decades for the general public to really accept it
because it challenges long-held beliefs.
Right.
They're not stuck in their ways.
They're constantly evolving.
Right.
Because knowledge isn't seen as something fixed or authoritative,
it's fluid and evolving, constantly shaped
by the experiences and contributions
of the entire community.
So it's kind of like a living, breathing encyclopedia
constantly being updated with the latest information.
That's really cool.
I mean, that makes me wonder if a preliterate culture
encountered, like, I don't know, a changing climate
or the arrival of a new plant or animal species,
were they more able to adjust their knowledge and practices?
Because they were already used to that kind of fluidity.
That's an excellent point.
I think there's definitely something to be said for that.
Think about it like this.
If you were learning to navigate by the stars
in a preliterate society, you wouldn't just
memorize a static star chart.
You'd learn the principles of celestial navigation,
how to observe the patterns of the stars,
how to adapt your understanding based
on the specific time and place.
It's like you're learning the process of learning itself.
You're not just memorizing facts.
You're learning how to think critically and adapt
to new situations.
Precisely.
And that makes these cultures incredibly resilient.
They're able to respond to change, incorporate new knowledge,
and adapt their practices in ways that
ensure their survival.
It's really incredible when you think about how much we can
learn from these cultures, even though they
existed in a world so different from our own.
And it makes you wonder, are there
ways we can recapture some of that dynamism
in our own knowledge systems?
Yeah.
I mean, think about it.
Could we learn to be more open to new ideas,
more willing to challenge those established ways of thinking?
It's a question worth pondering.
I mean, we live in a world that's changing faster than ever.
Maybe by understanding how preliterate cultures embrace
change and adapt it to new challenges,
we can find ways to navigate our own complex world
more effectively.
We've talked about the inclusive nature of communication
in preliterate cultures, the power of narrative,
the importance of memory, the dynamic nature of knowledge,
and the role of apprenticeships.
It's amazing to think that these practices, these ways
of knowing and being sustained human societies for so long.
It is a testament to human ingenuity and adaptation.
It's a reminder that the vast majority of languages
throughout human history didn't even have a written form.
So these weren't just some random practices.
These were the norm for most of human history.
That's a pretty mind-blowing realization.
And it means that our brains evolved in and adapted
to a world where communication was primarily oral.
It shaped how we learn, how we think,
and how we connect with each other.
We carry that legacy of oral communication within us,
even if we don't always consciously realize it.
It's like deep down inside, we're all still storytellers.
In a way, yes.
And understanding these preliterate cultures
isn't just about looking back at the past.
It's about understanding ourselves better in the present.
So as we continue this deep dive, this exploration
of the world before writing, what's
the key takeaway here?
I think it's appreciating that while writing was
a monumental leap forward for human civilization,
understanding oral communication helps
us to understand or appreciate the incredible power
and sophistication of preliterate cultures.
It helps us to rethink our assumptions about knowledge
and communication, and maybe even to find ways
to recapture some of those lost art forms in our own lives.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, maybe there's something to be said for putting down
the phone sometimes, stepping away from the screen
and just connecting with each other
through stories, through conversation,
through shared experiences.
Exactly.
It's about rediscovering the power of the human voice,
the magic of storytelling, and the joy of connecting
with each other on a deeper level.
It's about recognizing that knowledge isn't just something
we consume.
It's something we create together.
And on that note, let's take a moment
to really appreciate the wisdom and resilience
of these preliterate cultures.
What can we learn from them?
How can their stories and their ways of knowing
help us navigate the challenges of our own time?
And with that, we'll continue our deep dive.
So as we wrap up our exploration of this world
before writing, one thing that's really stood out to me
is how central the idea of community
is in these cultures.
It's like everything revolves around that sense
of shared experience and collective responsibility.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, from preserving knowledge to educating
the next generation, the community
seems to play a vital role in every aspect of life
in these preliterate societies.
It's kind of a stark contrast to our own world,
which often feels so individualistic and fragmented.
It is.
And I think it's because without written records,
knowledge has to be constantly shared and reinforced
through those face-to-face interactions,
through storytelling, through communal rituals.
Right.
So it's not just about individual learning.
It's about learning together.
Exactly.
And that creates this really powerful sense
of shared identity and purpose.
Everyone contributes.
Everyone benefits.
And everyone has a stake in making sure the group
as a whole thrives.
Do you think there are any lessons
we can learn from that in our own modern world?
I mean, obviously, we can't just recreate
preliterate societies.
But is there a way to foster that same sense of community,
that spirit of collaboration, and shared responsibility?
I think it's definitely something to strive for.
I mean, think about those moments in your own life
where you felt a real sense of connection with others.
Maybe it was sharing stories around a campfire,
or I don't know, working together on a community project.
It's about recognizing that we're not just isolated
individuals.
We're part of something larger than ourselves.
And maybe that's one of the most important takeaways
from our exploration of this world before writing, right?
The idea that knowledge isn't just something we consume.
It's something we create together.
Absolutely.
I think that's a powerful insight.
So as we kind of come to the end of our deep dive here,
what's the biggest takeaway for you?
What do you hope our listeners will remember
from this conversation?
Well, I think it's essential to remember
that while writing has been absolutely transformative
for human civilization, it's just one chapter
in a very long and complex story.
For most of human history, we relied
on oral communication, on the power of stories,
on the wisdom of elders, on the strength of community.
And there's real value in that.
There is.
And in those ways of knowing and being,
I think there are profound lessons that can really
enrich our lives, even today.
It's like we've uncovered this, I don't know,
hidden treasure trove of wisdom, waiting
to be rediscovered and applied to our modern world.
I like that, yeah, a treasure trove of wisdom.
And as we move forward, as individuals, as a society,
let's not forget those lessons of the past.
Let's embrace that power of storytelling,
the importance of community, the deep connection to nature
that characterized those preliterate societies.
Because in those ancient ways of knowing,
there just might be the keys to creating a more,
I don't know, just sustainable and fulfilling
future for everyone.
I love that.
And on that note, I want to thank you so much for joining us
on this incredible journey.
It's been an absolute pleasure exploring these ideas with you.
The pleasure was all mine.
It's always a joy to kind of delve
into the richness and complexity of human history
and to uncover these hidden connections that bind us together
across time and cultures.
And to our listeners, thank you for joining us for this deep dive
into a world before writing.
We hope it sparked your curiosity
and inspired you to see the world in a new light.
So until next time, keep exploring, keep learning,
and keep sharing your own stories.