1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,240 Welcome back everybody for another deep dive. 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,320 This time we're gonna be taking a look at something 3 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:09,320 that's pretty fundamental to human history communication. 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:10,480 That's right. 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,080 But not just any kind of communication. 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,080 We're going way back to a time before writing even existed 7 00:00:16,080 --> 00:00:20,720 and exploring how people in proliterate cultures 8 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,040 managed to share knowledge and ideas. 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,680 I mean, it's mind blowing when you think about it. 10 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,680 Absolutely. 11 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,400 I mean, like how did they pass down complex information, 12 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,720 history, practical skills, all without a single written word. 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,640 We're gonna be diving into an excerpt from interaction 14 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,680 in proliterate cultures, from hack science at education. 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,640 Okay. 16 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,720 And it's pretty fascinating stuff. 17 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,160 I mean, just to kick things off, here's a crazy thought. 18 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:48,240 You know how many languages roughly existed 19 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:49,160 in the 20th century? 20 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:50,680 Oh gosh, I don't know, thousands. 21 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:51,840 About 10,000. 22 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:52,680 Oh wow. 23 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,200 And guess how many of those had a written form? 24 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:56,200 A couple of hundred. 25 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:57,040 Only about a hundred. 26 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:57,880 Wow. 27 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,040 So for most of human history, oral communication was king. 28 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,960 So really like all of human history, 29 00:01:04,960 --> 00:01:06,240 up until a certain point, 30 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,760 was based on just oral communication and storytelling. 31 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,360 Yeah, it's hard for us to imagine, right? 32 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,440 Living in a world so saturated with text, you know? 33 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,720 But for millennia, that was the norm. 34 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,120 And these cultures developed incredibly sophisticated ways 35 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,400 of communicating and transmitting knowledge 36 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,080 without relying on the written word. 37 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,280 Yeah, and that's what we're gonna be exploring today, right? 38 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,120 Exactly. 39 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:34,120 What were those ways? 40 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,400 How did it actually work? 41 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:36,880 Can you imagine living in a world 42 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,680 where you couldn't just Google something 43 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,920 or look it up in a book? 44 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,560 It's definitely a challenge to wrap our heads around. 45 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,440 I mean, we're so used to having information 46 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,680 at our fingertips. 47 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:46,520 But think about it. 48 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,160 It also means that knowledge was something 49 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,640 that was actively lived and experienced. 50 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,640 It wasn't just passively consumed. 51 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:53,960 Yeah, and that's one of the things 52 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,720 that our source really digs into 53 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,360 is this idea of primary orality, right? 54 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,480 Cultures where oral communication is, 55 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,840 is just like the dominant form of sharing knowledge. 56 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:07,480 And one of the really interesting things 57 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,480 that they talk about is how inclusive these cultures were. 58 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,760 Because today we think about literacy, right? 59 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,520 And there's often like social hierarchies 60 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,080 based on who can read and write, 61 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,320 who has access to information. 62 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,480 But in primarily oral cultures, 63 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,600 practically everyone is participating 64 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,760 in the communication process. 65 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,800 Have you ever felt excluded 66 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,520 or like you couldn't really participate in something 67 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,280 because of your level of literacy 68 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:35,120 or something like that? 69 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,600 Oh yeah, absolutely. 70 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,120 I mean, even just think about 71 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,360 navigating certain websites or online platforms. 72 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,720 If you're not familiar with the jargon or the interface, 73 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,840 it can be incredibly difficult. 74 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,040 And the source, it actually quotes a J 75 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,640 who points out that indigenous communication systems 76 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:54,480 are often second nature and intrinsically interactive. 77 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,000 And he contrasts that with our modern, 78 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,680 technology-based media, 79 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,000 which often require these significant lifestyle changes 80 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,240 just to participate. 81 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,360 Think about it, if you wanna engage 82 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,240 in a discussion on social media, 83 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,000 you have to have a device, you have to have internet access, 84 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,960 you have to have a certain level of digital literacy. 85 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,400 It's not something that's just inherently accessible 86 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,320 to everyone in the same way that oral communication is. 87 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:19,600 That's a really good point. 88 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,200 Like it's built into the system. 89 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,040 It is. 90 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,000 That there's gonna be some people who are excluded 91 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,800 just by the nature of the system itself. 92 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,920 Exactly, and that creates these really interesting dynamics 93 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,720 in terms of how knowledge is shared, 94 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,960 how power is distributed, 95 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,320 and even how we perceive ourselves 96 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:37,640 and our place in the world. 97 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,560 Okay, so let's dive into that a little bit more. 98 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:41,400 Okay. 99 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,880 Like specifically, how did they pass down information 100 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:45,880 in those cultures? 101 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,840 Okay, well that's where the power of narrative 102 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:48,920 really comes in. 103 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:53,080 Think myths, stories, oral literature. 104 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,480 These weren't just forms of entertainment, 105 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,080 they were the primary repositories of knowledge. 106 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,360 So instead of textbooks and scientific journals, 107 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:01,840 they had stories. 108 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,840 Exactly, and they were incredibly effective 109 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,880 at preserving and transmitting information 110 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,480 across generations. 111 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,840 I mean, think about it, what's more memorable? 112 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,400 A dry list of facts or a captivating story. 113 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:15,600 Oh, definitely a story. 114 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,480 You know, you hear a good story, it sticks with you. 115 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:18,320 Absolutely. 116 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,560 And that's what made stories such powerful tools 117 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,200 in pre-lettered cultures. 118 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,280 They could convey complex ideas, moral lessons, 119 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:27,920 historical events, all within a framework 120 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,040 that was engaging and memorable. 121 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,240 And it wasn't just about memorizing the stories verbatim 122 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,600 either, these stories evolved over time. 123 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,600 They were constantly being retold, 124 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,160 reinterpreted, adapted to new circumstances. 125 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,880 So it wasn't like a fixed text? 126 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,280 Not at all, it was a living tradition, 127 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:47,880 a dynamic process of knowledge creation 128 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,280 and transmission. 129 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:50,600 That's fascinating. 130 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,960 So how did they ensure accuracy, though? 131 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,840 You know, if the stories are constantly changing, 132 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:57,120 how do you prevent things from getting distorted 133 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,640 or lost in translation? 134 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,840 Well, it's important to remember that in pre-literate cultures, 135 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:04,600 storytelling wasn't a solitary activity. 136 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,480 It was a communal experience. 137 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,400 Stories were told and retold in group settings, 138 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,160 often with active participation from the audience. 139 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,240 So it's almost like a performance, right? 140 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,360 It is, and that collective engagement 141 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,000 helped to ensure a certain level of accuracy and consistency. 142 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:20,440 OK. 143 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,960 Because if someone started telling a story that deviated 144 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,360 too far from the accepted version, 145 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,200 the community would correct them. 146 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:28,840 It was a process of collective memory 147 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:30,400 and shared responsibility. 148 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,200 It was like a built-in fact-checking system. 149 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:32,880 Exactly. 150 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,960 And this highlights a really important point 151 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,120 about pre-literate cultures. 152 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,640 Knowledge wasn't seen as something 153 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,160 that was owned by individuals. 154 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,320 It was a shared resource, a collective inheritance that 155 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,240 belonged to the entire community. 156 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,760 OK, so it wasn't just about the story itself. 157 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,480 It was about the context, the community, 158 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,920 the shared experience of telling and retelling the story. 159 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:53,560 Exactly. 160 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,800 And that's why understanding pre-literate communication 161 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,080 goes beyond just looking at the content of the stories. 162 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,040 It's about understanding the social dynamics, 163 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,920 the cultural values, the entire system of knowledge, creation, 164 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,560 and transmission that surrounded those stories. 165 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:08,160 That makes sense. 166 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,760 So they weren't just telling stories for fun. 167 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,440 It was a vital part of how they understood the world 168 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:13,680 and passed down knowledge. 169 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:14,400 Absolutely. 170 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,280 And one really interesting observation 171 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:19,920 about this comes from Havlock, a hero back in 1986. 172 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,000 And he pointed out that oral cultures tend 173 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,200 to describe heroic individuals more by their actions, what 174 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,120 they did, whereas literate cultures 175 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,360 tend to focus more on their characteristics, 176 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,920 like what kind of person they were, 177 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,520 their personality traits. 178 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,360 And that's a really subtle, the profound difference. 179 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,760 It speaks to the way these cultures valued 180 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,600 and transmitted knowledge. 181 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,640 So in an oral culture, they might 182 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,560 tell a story about a hero who slew the giant beast 183 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,240 and saved the village, whereas a literate culture might 184 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,880 describe the hero as brave and selfless. 185 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,000 Exactly. 186 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,800 And focusing on actions keeps the story dynamic. 187 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,240 It allows for different versions 188 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,960 to emerge as the story is retold and adapted 189 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,120 by each generation. 190 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:00,600 Right. 191 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:02,000 Because it's not about locking down 192 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,720 a specific interpretation. 193 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:05,800 It's about conveying the essence of the event, 194 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:06,960 the lessons learned. 195 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:07,760 Exactly. 196 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,960 And it leaves room for interpretation, 197 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,280 for different perspectives, for the story 198 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,600 to evolve as the culture itself evolves. 199 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:16,920 That's really fascinating. 200 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,840 So the stories themselves weren't static. 201 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,440 They were constantly being reshaped and reinterpreted. 202 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:22,160 Exactly. 203 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,240 It was a fluid dynamic process of knowledge creation 204 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,160 and transmission. 205 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,080 Which makes sense, right. 206 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,640 Because if your survival depends on having 207 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,320 accurate knowledge, you can't afford for it to become stagnant. 208 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:35,320 That's a great point. 209 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,280 Knowledge in these cultures had to be adaptable, 210 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,960 responsive to new challenges, and open to new insights. 211 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,120 So this whole idea of memory becomes crucial, right? 212 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,520 Because if you don't have written records, 213 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,520 you have to rely on your memory to preserve all this knowledge. 214 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:51,400 Absolutely. 215 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,760 And preliterate cultures developed some truly impressive 216 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:55,520 techniques for enhancing memory. 217 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:56,080 Like what? 218 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,120 Do they all have photographic memories or something? 219 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,200 Well, not exactly. 220 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,720 But they did develop really effective mnemonic strategies. 221 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,080 For example, repetition was key. 222 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,080 Stories were told and retold. 223 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,320 Reinforcing the information over and over again. 224 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,880 They also incorporated rhythm and patterns into the stories, 225 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,560 making them easier to remember. 226 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,520 And don't forget the power of music and dance. 227 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,280 These were often integral parts of storytelling, 228 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,680 adding a sensory layer that helps solidify memories. 229 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,640 Think of it like those mnemonic devices we still use today, 230 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,600 you know, like acronyms or rhymes. 231 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:31,120 Oh, yeah. 232 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,760 Like every good boy deserves fudge 233 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,240 for remembering the notes on the lines of the treble clef. 234 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:36,360 Exactly. 235 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,120 Those techniques are rooted in the same principles 236 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,360 that preliterate cultures use to enhance memory. 237 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,080 But in those cultures, these techniques 238 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,440 were even more ingrained, more woven into the fabric 239 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,400 of daily life. 240 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,760 So it wasn't just one person's memory carrying 241 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:51,920 the weight of all that knowledge? 242 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:52,200 Right. 243 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:53,560 It was a collective effort. 244 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:57,080 The community itself acted as a living repository of knowledge, 245 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,560 constantly reinforcing and updating information 246 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:01,520 through shared experiences and storytelling. 247 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:02,160 That's amazing. 248 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,560 It's like having a whole village worth of hard drives backing 249 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:05,960 up your most important data. 250 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,600 That's a great analogy. 251 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,280 And this idea of collective social memory 252 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,640 is one of the things that makes preliterate cultures so 253 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:14,320 resilient. 254 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:14,520 Right. 255 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,120 Because even if one person forgets something, 256 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,080 there are others who can remember and share it. 257 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:19,760 Exactly. 258 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,720 It's a system of distributed knowledge, 259 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,640 which makes it incredibly robust and adaptable. 260 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,360 So we've talked about stories, memory, community. 261 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,760 But what about learning new things in the first place? 262 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,040 Like how did they acquire new skills and knowledge 263 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,000 in a world without schools and universities? 264 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,680 Well, they had something that in some ways 265 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:42,560 was even more effective, apprenticeships. 266 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:43,240 Apprenticeships. 267 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:44,120 Yeah. 268 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,640 Think about learning a trade by working side by side 269 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:47,960 with a master craftsman. 270 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:48,360 Oh, OK. 271 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:48,560 Yeah. 272 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:50,240 That was the primary way knowledge 273 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,760 was passed down in preliterate cultures. 274 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,400 And it wasn't just for trades like blacksmithing or pottery. 275 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,520 Apprenticeships encompassed all sorts of essential skills, 276 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,720 from hunting and gathering to healing and storytelling. 277 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,240 It was like a really immersive form of education, wasn't it? 278 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,920 You're not just reading about something in a book. 279 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,440 You're actually doing it, learning by experience. 280 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:11,640 Exactly. 281 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,520 And that hands-on experience was crucial for developing 282 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,760 a deep understanding of the skill or knowledge being passed down. 283 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,640 It makes me think about all the things we learn today 284 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,280 through trial and error, like cooking or gardening. 285 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:25,080 Absolutely. 286 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,760 And in preliterate cultures, that kind of experiential learning 287 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,520 was central to education. 288 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,480 It wasn't just about acquiring information. 289 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,000 It was about developing a deep understanding, 290 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,040 a mastery of the skill or knowledge being learned. 291 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,680 I guess when your survival depends on knowing how to do something, 292 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:42,880 you learn it pretty quickly. 293 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:43,960 That's a great point. 294 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,800 Necessity is often the mother of invention. 295 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,560 And in preliterate cultures, the need to survive and thrive 296 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:54,400 drove the development of incredibly sophisticated knowledge systems. 297 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,520 And apprenticeships weren't just about practical skills, were they? 298 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,680 I mean, they also played a role in transmitting cultural values, 299 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:04,480 beliefs, ways of understanding the world. 300 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:05,320 That's right. 301 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,160 Apprenticeships were a holistic form of education. 302 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,600 They weren't just about teaching specific skills. 303 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,440 They were about shaping individuals into contributing members of the community. 304 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:19,520 It's fascinating to think about the pros and cons of apprenticeships 305 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,920 compared to the formal education systems we have today. 306 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,000 On the one hand, you get that personalized attention, 307 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,200 the direct application of knowledge. 308 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,760 But on the other hand, it might limit access to certain types of knowledge 309 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,280 or create a more rigid social structure. 310 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:35,720 It's definitely a trade-off. 311 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,960 But it's important to remember that for centuries, 312 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,800 apprenticeship was the primary way humanity ensured the survival 313 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,320 and evolution of its knowledge and skills. 314 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,040 It really makes you realize how adaptable humans are, doesn't it? 315 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,280 We find ways to learn and share knowledge, 316 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,120 even without the tools and structures we rely on today. 317 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:53,960 Exactly. 318 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,280 And by understanding these preliterate cultures, 319 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,200 we can gain a deeper appreciation for the fundamental ways 320 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,240 in which we, as humans, learn and communicate. 321 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,600 It's like uncovering a hidden history of our own minds. 322 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,120 It makes you wonder what other amazing things 323 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,680 we might discover about ourselves 324 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,360 by looking back at these ancient ways of knowing and being. 325 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,160 It's a journey worth taking. 326 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,440 And as we continue to explore this world before writing, 327 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,720 I think you'll be amazed by the ingenuity and sophistication 328 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,280 of these preliterate cultures. 329 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:24,280 Well, I'm definitely hooked. 330 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,960 I can't wait to dive deeper into this. 331 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,760 Let's continue our exploration. 332 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,280 So picking up where we left off, 333 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,800 it really gets you thinking about how these cultures dealt 334 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,000 with new information. 335 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,320 You know, we've been talking about how knowledge is passed down 336 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,320 through stories and apprenticeships. 337 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,000 But was that knowledge set in stone? 338 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,560 Did they ever resist new ideas? 339 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,840 Or were they constantly updating and evolving 340 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,240 their understanding of the world? 341 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,280 Yeah, it's like if somebody discovered a new way to hunt 342 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,840 or a new plant that could be used for medicine, 343 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,840 how would that get integrated into the collective knowledge? 344 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,880 Was there any pushback or were they pretty open to change? 345 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,640 Well, it's important to remember that in oral cultures, 346 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,960 knowledge isn't confined to written texts, right? 347 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,200 It's a living thing. 348 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,640 It's constantly being shared and reshaped 349 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,720 through dialogue and interaction. 350 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,760 If you learn something new, you don't just write it down 351 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,160 and put it on a shelf. 352 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,600 You share it with your family, your community. 353 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,400 And in that process, that knowledge gets woven 354 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,800 into the existing tapestry of understanding. 355 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,520 So it's kind of like a constant process 356 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,160 of collective learning and adaptation. 357 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,960 Not like today where you might have to wait for a textbook 358 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,960 to be updated or a new scientific paper to be published. 359 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:30,640 Exactly. 360 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,800 And because of this constant exchange, 361 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,600 oral cultures tend to be incredibly adaptable. 362 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,400 New discoveries or challenges can 363 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,800 be integrated into their understanding of the world 364 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,480 relatively seamlessly. 365 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,080 It's not like those situations where a new scientific discovery 366 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,000 comes out and it takes, I don't know, 367 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,160 decades for the general public to really accept it 368 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,440 because it challenges long-held beliefs. 369 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:50,600 Right. 370 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:51,960 They're not stuck in their ways. 371 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,320 They're constantly evolving. 372 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:53,920 Right. 373 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,480 Because knowledge isn't seen as something fixed or authoritative, 374 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,720 it's fluid and evolving, constantly shaped 375 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,560 by the experiences and contributions 376 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:04,400 of the entire community. 377 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,800 So it's kind of like a living, breathing encyclopedia 378 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,080 constantly being updated with the latest information. 379 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,080 That's really cool. 380 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,360 I mean, that makes me wonder if a preliterate culture 381 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,160 encountered, like, I don't know, a changing climate 382 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,960 or the arrival of a new plant or animal species, 383 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,000 were they more able to adjust their knowledge and practices? 384 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,720 Because they were already used to that kind of fluidity. 385 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:28,680 That's an excellent point. 386 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,680 I think there's definitely something to be said for that. 387 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:31,880 Think about it like this. 388 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,280 If you were learning to navigate by the stars 389 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,880 in a preliterate society, you wouldn't just 390 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,080 memorize a static star chart. 391 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,840 You'd learn the principles of celestial navigation, 392 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,000 how to observe the patterns of the stars, 393 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,960 how to adapt your understanding based 394 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:47,840 on the specific time and place. 395 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,320 It's like you're learning the process of learning itself. 396 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:51,760 You're not just memorizing facts. 397 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,000 You're learning how to think critically and adapt 398 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,320 to new situations. 399 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:56,480 Precisely. 400 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,000 And that makes these cultures incredibly resilient. 401 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,400 They're able to respond to change, incorporate new knowledge, 402 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,520 and adapt their practices in ways that 403 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,080 ensure their survival. 404 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,640 It's really incredible when you think about how much we can 405 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,160 learn from these cultures, even though they 406 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,080 existed in a world so different from our own. 407 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:14,760 And it makes you wonder, are there 408 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,200 ways we can recapture some of that dynamism 409 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,640 in our own knowledge systems? 410 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Yeah. 411 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:20,680 I mean, think about it. 412 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,920 Could we learn to be more open to new ideas, 413 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,080 more willing to challenge those established ways of thinking? 414 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,920 It's a question worth pondering. 415 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,120 I mean, we live in a world that's changing faster than ever. 416 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,720 Maybe by understanding how preliterate cultures embrace 417 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,000 change and adapt it to new challenges, 418 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,720 we can find ways to navigate our own complex world 419 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,000 more effectively. 420 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,200 We've talked about the inclusive nature of communication 421 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,560 in preliterate cultures, the power of narrative, 422 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,880 the importance of memory, the dynamic nature of knowledge, 423 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,640 and the role of apprenticeships. 424 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,920 It's amazing to think that these practices, these ways 425 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,760 of knowing and being sustained human societies for so long. 426 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,560 It is a testament to human ingenuity and adaptation. 427 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,280 It's a reminder that the vast majority of languages 428 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,440 throughout human history didn't even have a written form. 429 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,400 So these weren't just some random practices. 430 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,600 These were the norm for most of human history. 431 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,120 That's a pretty mind-blowing realization. 432 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,520 And it means that our brains evolved in and adapted 433 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,640 to a world where communication was primarily oral. 434 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,600 It shaped how we learn, how we think, 435 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,200 and how we connect with each other. 436 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,400 We carry that legacy of oral communication within us, 437 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,680 even if we don't always consciously realize it. 438 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,680 It's like deep down inside, we're all still storytellers. 439 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,000 In a way, yes. 440 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,000 And understanding these preliterate cultures 441 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:38,880 isn't just about looking back at the past. 442 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,280 It's about understanding ourselves better in the present. 443 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,600 So as we continue this deep dive, this exploration 444 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,120 of the world before writing, what's 445 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,680 the key takeaway here? 446 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,600 I think it's appreciating that while writing was 447 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,720 a monumental leap forward for human civilization, 448 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,960 understanding oral communication helps 449 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,640 us to understand or appreciate the incredible power 450 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,200 and sophistication of preliterate cultures. 451 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,000 It helps us to rethink our assumptions about knowledge 452 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,640 and communication, and maybe even to find ways 453 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:14,040 to recapture some of those lost art forms in our own lives. 454 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:14,880 Yeah, absolutely. 455 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,440 I mean, maybe there's something to be said for putting down 456 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,320 the phone sometimes, stepping away from the screen 457 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,120 and just connecting with each other 458 00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:23,880 through stories, through conversation, 459 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,200 through shared experiences. 460 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:25,680 Exactly. 461 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,560 It's about rediscovering the power of the human voice, 462 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,360 the magic of storytelling, and the joy of connecting 463 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:33,360 with each other on a deeper level. 464 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,640 It's about recognizing that knowledge isn't just something 465 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:36,840 we consume. 466 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,200 It's something we create together. 467 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,760 And on that note, let's take a moment 468 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,240 to really appreciate the wisdom and resilience 469 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,120 of these preliterate cultures. 470 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:47,320 What can we learn from them? 471 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,120 How can their stories and their ways of knowing 472 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,720 help us navigate the challenges of our own time? 473 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,120 And with that, we'll continue our deep dive. 474 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,320 So as we wrap up our exploration of this world 475 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,440 before writing, one thing that's really stood out to me 476 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,520 is how central the idea of community 477 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:04,480 is in these cultures. 478 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,680 It's like everything revolves around that sense 479 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,720 of shared experience and collective responsibility. 480 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,680 Yeah, absolutely. 481 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,600 I mean, from preserving knowledge to educating 482 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,160 the next generation, the community 483 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,240 seems to play a vital role in every aspect of life 484 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:21,680 in these preliterate societies. 485 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,080 It's kind of a stark contrast to our own world, 486 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,520 which often feels so individualistic and fragmented. 487 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:29,040 It is. 488 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,280 And I think it's because without written records, 489 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,120 knowledge has to be constantly shared and reinforced 490 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:36,000 through those face-to-face interactions, 491 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,280 through storytelling, through communal rituals. 492 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:38,480 Right. 493 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:39,920 So it's not just about individual learning. 494 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,080 It's about learning together. 495 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:41,760 Exactly. 496 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,880 And that creates this really powerful sense 497 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,760 of shared identity and purpose. 498 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:46,600 Everyone contributes. 499 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:47,400 Everyone benefits. 500 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,760 And everyone has a stake in making sure the group 501 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,680 as a whole thrives. 502 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:52,880 Do you think there are any lessons 503 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,160 we can learn from that in our own modern world? 504 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,920 I mean, obviously, we can't just recreate 505 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:58,960 preliterate societies. 506 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,240 But is there a way to foster that same sense of community, 507 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,440 that spirit of collaboration, and shared responsibility? 508 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,360 I think it's definitely something to strive for. 509 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:10,320 I mean, think about those moments in your own life 510 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,920 where you felt a real sense of connection with others. 511 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,760 Maybe it was sharing stories around a campfire, 512 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,600 or I don't know, working together on a community project. 513 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,200 It's about recognizing that we're not just isolated 514 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:22,920 individuals. 515 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,080 We're part of something larger than ourselves. 516 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,960 And maybe that's one of the most important takeaways 517 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,600 from our exploration of this world before writing, right? 518 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,080 The idea that knowledge isn't just something we consume. 519 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:34,440 It's something we create together. 520 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,200 Absolutely. 521 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,600 I think that's a powerful insight. 522 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,480 So as we kind of come to the end of our deep dive here, 523 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,960 what's the biggest takeaway for you? 524 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,680 What do you hope our listeners will remember 525 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:45,960 from this conversation? 526 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,560 Well, I think it's essential to remember 527 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,680 that while writing has been absolutely transformative 528 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,360 for human civilization, it's just one chapter 529 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,880 in a very long and complex story. 530 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,280 For most of human history, we relied 531 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,240 on oral communication, on the power of stories, 532 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,680 on the wisdom of elders, on the strength of community. 533 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:04,920 And there's real value in that. 534 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:05,520 There is. 535 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,360 And in those ways of knowing and being, 536 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,560 I think there are profound lessons that can really 537 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,960 enrich our lives, even today. 538 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,040 It's like we've uncovered this, I don't know, 539 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,760 hidden treasure trove of wisdom, waiting 540 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,040 to be rediscovered and applied to our modern world. 541 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,640 I like that, yeah, a treasure trove of wisdom. 542 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,560 And as we move forward, as individuals, as a society, 543 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,520 let's not forget those lessons of the past. 544 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,840 Let's embrace that power of storytelling, 545 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,000 the importance of community, the deep connection to nature 546 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,000 that characterized those preliterate societies. 547 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,000 Because in those ancient ways of knowing, 548 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,040 there just might be the keys to creating a more, 549 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,240 I don't know, just sustainable and fulfilling 550 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,440 future for everyone. 551 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:45,440 I love that. 552 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,600 And on that note, I want to thank you so much for joining us 553 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:48,720 on this incredible journey. 554 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,080 It's been an absolute pleasure exploring these ideas with you. 555 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:53,320 The pleasure was all mine. 556 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,920 It's always a joy to kind of delve 557 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,080 into the richness and complexity of human history 558 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,160 and to uncover these hidden connections that bind us together 559 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,960 across time and cultures. 560 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,040 And to our listeners, thank you for joining us for this deep dive 561 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,880 into a world before writing. 562 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,560 We hope it sparked your curiosity 563 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,040 and inspired you to see the world in a new light. 564 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,880 So until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, 565 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:36,240 and keep sharing your own stories.