1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,800 Welcome back everybody for another deep dive with us. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,000 Today we're gonna be looking at natural technology. 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,720 Ooh, that's interesting. 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,800 Yeah, it's this article from hackscience.education 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:13,960 called Natural Technology. 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:14,800 Okay. 7 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,000 And it was posted on December 27th, 2017. 8 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:18,840 Right. 9 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,160 But it was also updated on January 4th, 2021. 10 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:23,440 So fairly recently. 11 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,600 Yeah, so it's pretty recent. 12 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,880 And you know, when you hear natural technology, 13 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:28,720 you might think. 14 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:29,760 Like some new gadgets. 15 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:30,600 Exactly. 16 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,000 Yeah, like this is about a new phone or something. 17 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:32,840 Right. 18 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,920 But it's actually not about like a specific piece 19 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:35,760 of technology. 20 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,600 Okay. 21 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,680 It's more about how all the technology 22 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,640 that we're surrounded by in our early years 23 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,440 shapes like our whole understanding 24 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:45,680 of what technology is. 25 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:46,520 Interesting. 26 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:47,360 And what it should be. 27 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:48,200 Oh, I see. 28 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,080 So like it sets up our expectations for technology almost. 29 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:50,920 Exactly. 30 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:51,760 Yeah. 31 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,320 So the tech we grow up with doesn't just teach us 32 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,920 how to use like, you know, that device. 33 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:56,760 Yeah. 34 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,640 It creates a whole framework for how we think about technology 35 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,480 in general. 36 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:02,320 That makes sense. 37 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,320 Like almost like a set of assumptions. 38 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:04,160 Yeah. 39 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,000 Like what's possible. 40 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:06,920 What's normal or even what's valuable 41 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,360 when it comes to technology. 42 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,200 Exactly. 43 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,640 And you know, I was thinking about this 44 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:11,680 while reading this article. 45 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:12,760 Okay. 46 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,760 You know, imagine someone who's spent their teenage years. 47 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:18,520 Okay. 48 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,160 Like on dial up internet. 49 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:22,000 Oh, yeah. 50 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,040 Like waiting for pages to load. 51 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,680 That's screeching sound. 52 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:26,520 Yes. 53 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:27,840 I can hear it now. 54 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,160 And that is a completely different experience 55 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:31,840 from someone who's always had like. 56 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,280 Super fast internet. 57 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:34,120 Yes. 58 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,480 Like lightning fast internet on their phone. 59 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:36,320 Yeah. 60 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,160 You're right. 61 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:38,320 That's a huge difference in experience. 62 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:39,680 And that difference in experience 63 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,720 can lead to some pretty different expectations. 64 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:42,560 Ugly. 65 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,200 About how technology should work. 66 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Yeah. 67 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,720 Like someone who's used to that instant connectivity. 68 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:49,720 You know. 69 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,600 They might just find it so frustrating 70 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,640 to wait even a few seconds for something to load. 71 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:55,480 Yeah. 72 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:56,680 And then someone who grew up with the dial up, 73 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,240 they might be like, oh, this is fine. 74 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,080 You know. 75 00:01:59,080 --> 00:01:59,920 Right. 76 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:00,760 They're used to waiting. 77 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:01,600 Exactly. 78 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:02,440 They've got more patience. 79 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:03,960 They have much higher tolerance for those delays. 80 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:05,120 But here's the thing. 81 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,240 The article is saying that all technology, 82 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,920 even the stuff that seems like totally revolutionary. 83 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:11,760 Okay. 84 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,160 It's actually built on what came before. 85 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,000 Okay. 86 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,000 So help me understand that a little bit better. 87 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:15,840 Sure. 88 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,960 They use the example of information technology. 89 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:18,800 Yeah. 90 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,080 Which is pretty broad. 91 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,960 It is a broad category for sure. 92 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,720 Is there like a historical example of this evolution 93 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,880 that might surprise people listening? 94 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:27,720 Hmm. 95 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:28,960 Let's take the telephone. 96 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:29,800 Okay. 97 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:30,800 Like it's so commonplace now, right? 98 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:31,640 Yeah. 99 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:32,480 We all have them. 100 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,640 But even something as simple as like the rotary phone. 101 00:02:34,640 --> 00:02:35,480 Right. 102 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,440 That was the result of decades of innovation. 103 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:39,280 Wow. 104 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,120 Like think about it. 105 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:41,520 You had the telegraph first, 106 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:42,920 and then people were experimenting 107 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:44,400 with transmitting voices. 108 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:45,240 Oh wow. 109 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:46,920 And then they had to develop switching systems 110 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:48,280 to connect calls. 111 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,200 It's amazing how much had to happen. 112 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,520 All these things had to happen 113 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,120 before you could just pick up a phone and dial a number. 114 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,360 Wow. 115 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,440 And then from there it evolved into. 116 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,000 Well, you had touch tone phones. 117 00:02:59,000 --> 00:02:59,840 Right. 118 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:00,680 Cordless phones. 119 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:01,520 Mobile phones. 120 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:02,960 And then bam, smart phones. 121 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,240 So even something is like groundbreaking as a smartphone 122 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,000 is really just the latest step. 123 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:10,840 Yeah. 124 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,520 It's the latest iteration in a long line 125 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:14,840 of technological development. 126 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:15,680 Wow. 127 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:16,520 It's like we take it for granted, 128 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,280 but all of these inventions. 129 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,160 They're all standing on the shoulders of what came before. 130 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,120 That's really interesting. 131 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,640 And that brings us to another point 132 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,720 that the article makes about natural technology. 133 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:27,560 Okay. 134 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,360 And how it impacts education. 135 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:30,200 All right. 136 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,280 They use the example of calculators. 137 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:33,120 Okay. 138 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,080 Now for someone who learned math before, 139 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,400 calculators were really common. 140 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,640 You know, certain skills, 141 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,400 like being able to do complex calculations by hand. 142 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:43,240 Right. 143 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:44,080 Those were just considered essential. 144 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,000 You had to know how to do that. 145 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:45,960 Right, exactly. 146 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,520 But someone who grew up with a calculator, 147 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,480 they might have a totally different perspective on that. 148 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,800 Oh yeah, that makes sense. 149 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:52,640 You know. 150 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,280 I mean, they're like my parents freaking out 151 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,560 about calculators in school. 152 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:56,440 Really? 153 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:57,280 Oh yeah. 154 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,120 They were like, 155 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,280 this is gonna make kids' brains turn to mush. 156 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:01,120 Wow. 157 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:01,940 But I mean, honestly, 158 00:04:01,940 --> 00:04:04,240 calculators can do those calculations so fast. 159 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,080 They're instant. 160 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:05,920 Yeah. 161 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:06,880 So maybe it like frees up brain space 162 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,160 to focus on other things. 163 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,440 That's exactly the tension that the article highlights. 164 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,320 Does having calculators mean 165 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:14,640 that we don't need to learn 166 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,800 those traditional math skills anymore? 167 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:17,640 Right. 168 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:18,480 Or like you were saying, 169 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,720 does it let us focus on higher level thinking? 170 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:21,560 Yeah. 171 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,200 The skills we consider essential, 172 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,040 even how we define intelligence. 173 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:26,880 Oh wow. 174 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,720 That might be influenced by the technology 175 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,200 that's natural to us. 176 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,440 So it's not just about learning to use 177 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,880 like the gadget itself. 178 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:34,720 Right. 179 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,640 It's about understanding how that gadget. 180 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:37,640 Uh huh. 181 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,240 And the whole world that it's a part of. 182 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,680 The whole technological ecosystem, yeah. 183 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,280 Yeah, it changes the skills we need 184 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:44,280 in the way we learn. 185 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:45,120 Exactly. 186 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:46,080 And that's a pretty big deal, 187 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,080 especially when you think about 188 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,200 how fast technology changes these days. 189 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,040 Oh, it's huge. 190 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:50,880 Yeah. 191 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,040 It really is a big deal. 192 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,400 And it's not even just education, you know. 193 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:55,240 Right. 194 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,160 Ackerman, he argues that 195 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,880 if we're only teaching the technology 196 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,640 that we're familiar with, 197 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,640 we're basically setting students up 198 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,120 for a world that doesn't exist anymore. 199 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:05,960 Oh wow. 200 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,680 So it's like giving them a map to a city 201 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,320 that's been totally redesigned. 202 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:10,280 Yes, exactly. 203 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:11,720 They might be able to find their way around. 204 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:12,560 Yeah. 205 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,040 But they're gonna miss out on like 206 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:15,000 all the new landmarks. 207 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,640 All the shortcuts and yeah, 208 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,000 all the cool new stuff. 209 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:18,840 Exactly. 210 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:20,480 And this goes even further than the classroom. 211 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:21,320 Okay. 212 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,280 Like think about how natural technology 213 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:25,600 could shape our choices as consumers. 214 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:26,440 Okay, interesting. 215 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,280 Like somebody who grew up 216 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:29,680 with all the latest gadgets, you know. 217 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,520 They might be more likely to pre-order 218 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:32,720 the newest phone. 219 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:33,560 Right. 220 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,720 Or try out like a new VR headset or something. 221 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,200 Yeah, I guess that's not me. 222 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,040 What do you mean? 223 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,560 I'm more likely to wait for the reviews. 224 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,400 You know. 225 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:43,240 Oh, that's interesting. 226 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:44,080 Make sure it's actually worth the money 227 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:44,920 before I buy it. 228 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,360 I guess that's your natural technology talking then. 229 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,560 I guess so. 230 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,160 And hey, there's nothing wrong with that. 231 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:51,000 Right? 232 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,920 It's about understanding, you know. 233 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:53,760 Yeah. 234 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,160 How your past is shaping the decisions 235 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,080 you're making today. 236 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,280 Yeah, that makes sense. 237 00:05:57,280 --> 00:06:00,320 Ackerman even suggests that natural technology 238 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,560 could even shape like our political views. 239 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:03,400 Whoa. 240 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,720 On things like AI regulation or data privacy. 241 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,240 Okay, that's really interesting. 242 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,080 Yeah. 243 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,320 So like someone's stance on facial recognition technology 244 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,920 could be influenced by the tech that they grew up around. 245 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,680 Yeah, possibly. 246 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:18,520 How does that work? 247 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:19,680 Well, think about it this way. 248 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:20,520 Okay. 249 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,920 Imagine someone who grew up when computers were mainly used 250 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,480 for like personal productivity. 251 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:27,320 You know. 252 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:28,160 Word processing. 253 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:29,000 Yeah. 254 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,680 Or spreadsheets or stuff like that. 255 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,160 They might see all this new AI stuff. 256 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,000 Yeah. 257 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,040 With a lot more caution. 258 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:35,880 Right. 259 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,080 Maybe even skepticism. 260 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:37,920 Okay. 261 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:38,760 Especially when you start talking about things 262 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,000 like facial recognition. 263 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:40,840 Yeah. 264 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:42,400 Because that could affect people's privacy. 265 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:43,240 Right. 266 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:44,080 And civil liberties. 267 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,320 Okay, that makes sense. 268 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,240 But then what about someone who like grew up playing 269 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,240 video games. 270 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:49,080 Okay. 271 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,200 Crazy graphics. 272 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:51,040 Yeah. 273 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,640 And you know, like really smart AI opponents. 274 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:55,480 Yeah. 275 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,720 Would they be more likely to see the benefits of AI? 276 00:06:58,720 --> 00:06:59,720 It's possible. 277 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,480 Even in something like surveillance. 278 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:02,320 Yeah. 279 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,480 I mean, they might be more used to interacting with. 280 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:05,320 Right. 281 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:06,720 Those really complex AI systems. 282 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:07,560 Right. 283 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,120 And more comfortable with machines making decisions. 284 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:11,400 Or analyzing data. 285 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,520 So it's almost like our early experiences with technology 286 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,120 create like a lens. 287 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:16,960 Yeah. 288 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,040 That we view all these new advancements through. 289 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:20,040 That's a great way to put it. 290 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,720 And that lens colors how we see things. 291 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:25,560 Absolutely. 292 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,600 Like what's beneficial, what's risky. 293 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,080 Even what's like ethically okay. 294 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:31,920 It's true. 295 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:32,760 Wow. 296 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,480 And this is exactly why it's so important to understand 297 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,640 this whole concept of natural technology. 298 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:38,480 Yeah. 299 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:39,960 It's not about judging people. 300 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:40,800 Right. 301 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,360 Based on their background with technology. 302 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Yeah. 303 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,760 It's about recognizing that we all have these lenses. 304 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:46,600 Uh huh. 305 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,560 And those lenses have a big impact. 306 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:49,400 Wow. 307 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,240 On how we see the world. 308 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,320 Especially with how fast tech is changing. 309 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:53,240 Especially, yeah. 310 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,400 So what can we even do with this knowledge? 311 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,360 That's a good question. 312 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,560 It's one thing to understand that our views are shaped 313 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,120 by this, but how do we actually like use this in our lives? 314 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,520 I think the first step is just being aware. 315 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,040 Recognizing that your own natural technology exists. 316 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,720 And it might be totally different from somebody else's. 317 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:13,560 Right. 318 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,120 And that's really important when you think about areas like. 319 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:16,960 Okay. 320 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:17,800 Education. 321 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,040 And that's not just about developing new technology 322 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,480 or even making policies. 323 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:22,320 Right. 324 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,080 Because decisions in those areas affect tons of people. 325 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:26,920 Yeah. 326 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,640 With totally different backgrounds with technology. 327 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,720 You know, it's funny because when you were talking 328 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:32,720 about education before. 329 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:33,560 Yeah. 330 00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:36,720 I immediately thought back to that calculator example. 331 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:37,560 Oh yeah. 332 00:08:37,560 --> 00:08:39,880 My parents were sure that calculators were going 333 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,520 to ruin my math skills. 334 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,160 But honestly, I use a calculator for everything now. 335 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,000 Really? 336 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:45,840 Oh yeah. 337 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,320 Even like budgeting and tipping at restaurants. 338 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:48,160 It's fine. 339 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:49,000 It's not a bad thing. 340 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:49,840 The point is. 341 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:50,680 Yeah. 342 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:53,200 We often judge technology based on what we've experienced 343 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,040 without even thinking about like. 344 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:55,880 Other people. 345 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:56,720 Yeah. 346 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:57,560 Or the bigger picture. 347 00:08:57,560 --> 00:08:58,400 Yeah. 348 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,160 Ackerman actually gives another good example. 349 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:01,000 Okay. 350 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,560 He talks about teaching math and all the debates 351 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:05,600 about calculators back then. 352 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,720 A lot of adults were really insistent that students needed 353 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,720 to learn math the old fashioned way. 354 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:12,560 Right. 355 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:13,880 Even though calculators were everywhere. 356 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:14,720 Yeah. 357 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:15,560 Exactly. 358 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:16,800 And it's kind of like saying you need to learn 359 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,240 to ride a horse before you can drive a car. 360 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,080 Exactly. 361 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:21,440 And what Ackerman points out is. 362 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:22,280 Yeah. 363 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,440 A lot of those adults were probably using calculators 364 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:25,520 in their own lives. 365 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:26,360 Right. 366 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:27,200 Of course. 367 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,040 Maybe even for their jobs. 368 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:28,880 Yeah. 369 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,760 So it wasn't really about what was best for teaching. 370 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,200 It was their own natural technology. 371 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,040 Oh wow. 372 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,480 Making them think that certain math skills 373 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,160 were just essential. 374 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,760 It's like we need to develop a tech empathy. 375 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:41,600 Or something. 376 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:42,560 Technological empathy. 377 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:43,400 I love that. 378 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:44,240 Yeah. 379 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,080 That's a great phrase. 380 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,280 Like being able to see things 381 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:47,600 from other people's point of view. 382 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:48,440 Yeah. 383 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,000 Based on their experiences with technology. 384 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,640 And not just understanding those different viewpoints 385 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,440 but actually challenging what we think. 386 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:55,280 Yeah. 387 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,000 And realizing that how we learn something 388 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,760 might not be the only way 389 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,360 or even the best way to do it. 390 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,760 So how do we get better at this tech empathy? 391 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:06,600 It's tough. 392 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,320 Especially because technology keeps changing so fast. 393 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:10,160 Yeah. 394 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,000 What's normal today might be totally outdated tomorrow. 395 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:13,840 Exactly. 396 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,800 And that leads to an even bigger question. 397 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:16,640 Right. 398 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,160 How do we get ready for a future 399 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,640 where technology is so advanced 400 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,080 that we can't even imagine it right now? 401 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,200 I think it's scary to think about. 402 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:26,040 It is. 403 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,720 I mean think about kids growing up today 404 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:30,000 surrounded by AI and VR. 405 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,240 It's mind blowing. 406 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:32,080 It really is. 407 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,080 What skills are they even gonna need 408 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,520 to do well in a world that we can barely even picture? 409 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:39,360 Yeah. 410 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:40,200 It really is mind blowing. 411 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:41,920 And that kind of leads us to the big question 412 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:43,280 we wanna leave you with today. 413 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,120 Okay. 414 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,840 What are the skills and the knowledge 415 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,440 that are gonna be like the most important 416 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,120 for those kids growing up today? 417 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:50,960 Yeah. 418 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:51,880 To really thrive in that world 419 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,480 shaped by all this crazy new tech. 420 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:55,960 I gotta admit that's a little intimidating 421 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:56,800 to even think about. 422 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:57,640 It is a lot. 423 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,200 I can barely keep up with the technology 424 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:00,560 that's coming out now. 425 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:01,400 Yeah. 426 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:02,680 How am I supposed to predict 427 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:04,080 what skills are gonna be essential 428 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,200 in like 10 or 20 years? 429 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,320 Well, it is a challenge for sure. 430 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:08,160 Right. 431 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,160 But remember the whole point of natural technology 432 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,240 isn't about like specific gadgets or platforms. 433 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:15,080 Okay. 434 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,720 It's about getting those like underlying principles. 435 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,960 How technology changes how we think 436 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,680 and interact with the world. 437 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:25,320 So maybe instead of like getting all caught up 438 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,080 and predicting the exact tech they'll need. 439 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:28,920 Right. 440 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,080 We should focus on just like 441 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,000 fostering those bigger skills. 442 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:32,840 Yeah. 443 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:33,680 And mindsets. 444 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:34,520 Exactly. 445 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,120 That'll help them no matter what the specific tools are. 446 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:37,960 Yeah. 447 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:38,800 Think about things like. 448 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:39,640 Okay. 449 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:40,480 Uh-huh. 450 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,600 Critical thinking, problem solving, creativity. 451 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:43,560 Those are always important. 452 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:46,360 They are, but they're even more important now 453 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,400 with all this new tech. 454 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:48,960 Because it's always changing. 455 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:49,800 Right. 456 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,120 So it's like we gotta give them a mental toolkit. 457 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:52,960 Yeah. 458 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,040 Not just the instructions for one device. 459 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,680 That's a great way to think about it. 460 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:00,640 And that toolkit needs to be like flexible enough. 461 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:01,480 Yeah. 462 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:02,680 To adapt to whatever comes next. 463 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:03,520 Exactly. 464 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,640 We also can't forget about digital literacy. 465 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:07,480 Oh, right. 466 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:08,320 Yeah, that's huge. 467 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,680 Understanding how these technologies actually work. 468 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:12,520 Uh-huh. 469 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,480 Being able to look at information online 470 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,640 and figure out if it's reliable. 471 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,480 Yeah. 472 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Recognizing biases. 473 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,160 All super important. 474 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,240 Essential for navigating the digital world. 475 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,480 And probably most importantly, a love of learning. 476 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:26,320 Oh, absolutely. 477 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,360 Because if technology is always changing. 478 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:29,200 Yeah. 479 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,040 You gotta be willing to keep learning 480 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:32,040 and keep up with it. 481 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,800 Lifelong learning, that's the key. 482 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:34,640 Right. 483 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:35,680 It's really the best thing we can give 484 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:36,760 the next generation. 485 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,200 It's what lets them actually shape the technology, 486 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:40,120 not just use it. 487 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:40,960 Exactly. 488 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:42,800 They can be the innovators and creators. 489 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:43,800 That's really cool. 490 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,280 You know, thinking about all of this. 491 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,000 It's not just about getting the next generation ready. 492 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,520 It's about all of us. 493 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,360 Oh, yeah. 494 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,320 We all have our own natural technology. 495 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,880 Our own ideas and biases from what we've experienced. 496 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,360 And as technology keeps advancing like it is. 497 00:12:58,360 --> 00:12:59,200 Yeah. 498 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,440 It's gonna be even more important 499 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,880 to like pay attention to that. 500 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,560 To be open to new ideas. 501 00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:05,400 Right. 502 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,200 And realize that how we do things 503 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,480 might not be the only way or even the best way. 504 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:11,320 You got it. 505 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:12,960 And then that's why that technological empathy 506 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:13,800 is so important. 507 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:14,640 Yeah. 508 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:15,560 No matter how old you are 509 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,360 or what your experience with tech is. 510 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,200 Right. 511 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,160 We gotta be willing to step outside our comfort zones. 512 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:22,000 Yeah. 513 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,480 To question what we think we know. 514 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:24,320 Yeah. 515 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,320 And be open to learning new things. 516 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,680 Maybe we'll even realize that some of the things 517 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,560 we thought were just the way to do things. 518 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:31,440 Yeah. 519 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,840 Weren't actually the best way. 520 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:33,840 It's possible. 521 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,240 And by letting go of those old ideas. 522 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:37,080 Yeah. 523 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,040 Maybe we can open up all these new possibilities. 524 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:39,960 Exactly. 525 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,480 And create a future where tech actually helps us. 526 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:44,320 That's the goal. 527 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:45,360 Not the other way around. 528 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:46,400 That's what we want. 529 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,240 That's awesome. 530 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:48,080 It is. 531 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,360 Well that's a great thought to end on. 532 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:50,240 I think so. 533 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:51,520 So remember everybody. 534 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,600 Natural technology, it's not just about the devices. 535 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:55,440 Nope. 536 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,760 It's about how those devices change how we see the world. 537 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,040 And understanding that is the first step 538 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,880 to using technology to do good. 539 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:04,720 Absolutely. 540 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,680 For ourselves and for future generations. 541 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:07,560 That's the key. 542 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,880 Thanks for joining us on this deep dive everybody. 543 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Thanks for listening. 544 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,080 We hope it's given you some things to think about. 545 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:13,920 Yeah. 546 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,720 As you navigate this increasingly tech driven world. 547 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:32,760 We'll see you next time.