1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,720 Hey everyone, welcome back for another deep dive. 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,080 Today, we're tackling something that I think 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,080 is going to resonate with just about everyone listening, 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:10,960 education. 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:11,800 Absolutely. 6 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,560 Specifically, we're diving into chapter seven, 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,520 developing system capacity from the book, 8 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,080 Technology Rich Teaching, developing system capacity. 9 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:24,440 And one of the things that really struck me 10 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,520 right off the bat was this idea that education 11 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,760 is presented not just as a problem to be solved, 12 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,440 but a wicked problem. 13 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,960 A wicked problem, yeah. 14 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,560 That's a really interesting concept 15 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:36,640 that they bring up right away. 16 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:38,000 And that, I think, is really relevant. 17 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,360 Yeah, wicked problem. 18 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:40,760 Like, what does that even mean? 19 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,080 What makes a problem wicked? 20 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,280 Is it just like education is going rogue? 21 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,480 Well, they contrast it with what they call a tame problem. 22 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:50,720 So you can think of a tame problem like leaky faucet. 23 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:51,680 You know it's wrong. 24 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:52,760 You get your tools. 25 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:53,600 You know what to do. 26 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:54,640 You fix it. 27 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,360 Education is not like that. 28 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,240 Education is much more complex. 29 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,440 And the solutions are not always clear. 30 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,840 And the problem itself can change. 31 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,800 So it's like by the time you've come up with a solution, 32 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:11,360 the problem itself has morphed into something else. 33 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,560 Exactly. 34 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:13,200 Exactly. 35 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,840 And it has a lot of different facets to it. 36 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,320 Like even defining the problem can be part of the problem. 37 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,640 Good example, and they give this in the book, 38 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:21,520 is climate change. 39 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:22,440 Oh, yeah. 40 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,040 You know, even coming to an agreement 41 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,440 on what the problem is, 42 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,440 is in itself a major challenge, 43 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,960 let alone all of the possible solutions 44 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:31,040 that are being debated. 45 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,160 So how do you even begin to approach a problem 46 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,600 where it feels like the goal posts are constantly moving? 47 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,520 Well, this is where the book gets really interesting, 48 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,080 because they talk about how we're undergoing 49 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,400 a paradigm shift in education. 50 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,040 And what they mean by that is a fundamental change 51 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,880 in our basic assumptions about how teaching and learning work. 52 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:51,480 OK. 53 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,600 So it's almost like when people thought the earth was flat. 54 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:55,400 Right. 55 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,080 And then suddenly there's this realization, 56 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,960 oh, wait a minute, it's round. 57 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,160 It's a whole different way of looking at things. 58 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:03,920 A whole different way of looking at things. 59 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:05,760 So it's that kind of shift in thinking. 60 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:06,120 Yeah. 61 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,760 So if the old way of thinking about education, 62 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,600 the old, I guess you could call it, map, 63 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,600 isn't working anymore, 64 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,960 how do we even begin to draw a new one? 65 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,320 Like what are the tools or the concepts that we can use 66 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,640 to start making sense of all this? 67 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:23,880 Well, they talk about this philosopher of science 68 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,680 named Thomas Kuhn. 69 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:33,400 And Kuhn really laid out the components of paradigm shifts 70 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:34,600 in any field. 71 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,560 And he said there are basically four components. 72 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,560 So the first one is what he calls symbolic generalizations. 73 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,640 And these are basically just the fundamental assumptions 74 00:02:42,640 --> 00:02:44,200 that we make about a field. 75 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,360 So symbolic generalizations, the assumptions 76 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,080 we make about education. 77 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,680 One example, and they give this, is that knowledge 78 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,000 is passed from the teacher to the student. 79 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,520 Right, like the teacher is the expert, 80 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,440 and they just sort of download the information 81 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,560 to the student's brains. 82 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,200 Exactly, exactly. 83 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,920 And that's sort of like that sage on the stage idea. 84 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:05,520 But now we're understanding learning 85 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,360 as much more of an active and social process 86 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,560 where the student constructs knowledge. 87 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,120 They build their own knowledge collaboratively. 88 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,640 So it's less like a lecture hall and more like a bustling 89 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:18,800 marketplace of ideas. 90 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,040 Oh, I like that image. 91 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,800 OK, so that's one component, symbolic generalizations. 92 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,880 What's the next piece of the puzzle here? 93 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,000 The next piece is what he called metaphysical paradigms, which 94 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,800 are essentially the metaphors that we 95 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,880 use to understand things. 96 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,240 And the book talks about the factory model of education, 97 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:36,560 which has been very prevalent. 98 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,760 Students go in as raw material, and they come out 99 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,520 as uniform products, basically. 100 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,920 Yeah, the cookie cutter approach to education. 101 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,080 Exactly. 102 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,000 But that metaphor is being challenged. 103 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,640 OK, so if the factory model is outdated, 104 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,800 what's the new metaphor that we're moving towards? 105 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,280 Well, they're talking about education 106 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,000 more like an ecosystem where learning is a dynamic 107 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,760 and interconnected process. 108 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,960 And then the third component is values. 109 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,760 So these are the core beliefs about what's 110 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,280 important in education, things like every student can learn, 111 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,240 or school should prepare you for more than just a job, 112 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:14,480 things like that. 113 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,400 OK, so are these values also changing? 114 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,840 What's driving that shift in what we value in education? 115 00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:23,480 Well, yeah, because the world is changing rapidly, 116 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:24,880 and our needs are different. 117 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,320 And the book really emphasizes that these values need 118 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,800 to be actively examined and reexamined to stay relevant. 119 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,000 OK, that makes sense. 120 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,000 So it's three components. 121 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,720 The symbolic generalizations, the metaphors, the values. 122 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,080 What's that fourth piece? 123 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,640 The fourth piece is what Kuhn called exemplary practices, 124 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,240 which are basically the methods that everybody considers 125 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,520 to be best practice in the field. 126 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,440 So those best practices were built upon the previous paradigm. 127 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,480 So if the paradigm is shifting, then those practices 128 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,000 might not be as effective anymore. 129 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,760 Ooh, that's got to be unsettling for educators, 130 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,360 like having the rug pulled out from under them. 131 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,000 And the book even quotes someone saying, 132 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,480 if you're right, then everything I know about education 133 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,320 is wrong. 134 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,480 That's a pretty intense statement. 135 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,120 It is, and it can be disorienting. 136 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,680 But it's not about saying everything we knew before 137 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,440 is wrong, but it's more like, we need to adapt. 138 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:18,920 Yeah. 139 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,720 Our understanding to the realities of the 21st century. 140 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,040 It's like, you have an old house, the structure is still good, 141 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,560 but you have to update the wiring. 142 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:28,920 You have to update the plumbing to make 143 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,040 it work for modern life. 144 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,520 OK, I love that analogy. 145 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,160 So we've got this wicked problem of education, 146 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,600 this massive paradigm shift. 147 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,360 And I'm curious, where does technology fit into all this? 148 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:46,240 Because it seems like technology is a huge driver of change. 149 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:46,880 Absolutely. 150 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,920 Is it the magic bullet that's going to fix everything? 151 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,960 Or is it just a shiny distraction? 152 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,320 I think a lot of people are wrestling with that right now. 153 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,000 Well, yeah, and the book goes into that. 154 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,800 It talks about the concept of technology stewards. 155 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,200 And these are individuals who really understand 156 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,920 both the needs of the educational community 157 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,080 and the capabilities of technology. 158 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,960 OK, so who are these technology stewards? 159 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,080 Like, are they just the tech geeks who keep the computers 160 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:14,040 running? 161 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,600 Or is it something more than that? 162 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,600 It's more than that. 163 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:17,880 I think it's this idea of someone 164 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,960 who can bridge the gap between the tech world 165 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,840 and the everyday needs of a school. 166 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:28,360 So it's not just about the gadgets themselves, 167 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,680 but about how those gadgets can actually 168 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,760 be used to support learning goals. 169 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:33,920 Absolutely. 170 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:35,640 And I think that's a really important role. 171 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,640 Yeah, I'm already seeing how important that is, 172 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,280 especially with all these other changes 173 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:40,360 happening in education. 174 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,360 Right, and the book emphasizes that these folks often 175 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,120 emerge from within the teaching ranks. 176 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,920 Oh, OK, so they're not just Silicon Valley folks coming in 177 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,240 and saying, this is how you should do it. 178 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:52,760 Right, definitely. 179 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,960 They're people who've actually been in the classroom. 180 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,280 They know the challenges, and they 181 00:06:56,280 --> 00:07:00,200 can see how technology can be a put in a meaningful way. 182 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:01,600 That makes a lot of sense. 183 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,960 OK, so we've got wicked problems. 184 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,360 We've got paradigm shifts. 185 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,840 We've got the role of technology. 186 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:12,840 But with all this talk about big, complex issues, 187 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,960 I'm wondering, how do we even have productive conversations 188 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:17,640 about education? 189 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:18,080 Right. 190 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,040 It seems like it could easily devolve 191 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:21,840 into just a shouting match of opinions. 192 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:22,440 Right. 193 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,240 How do we avoid that? 194 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,440 Well, the book emphasizes the importance 195 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,160 of what they call progressive discourse, which 196 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,920 is a way of having these really productive conversations 197 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,400 about complex educational issues. 198 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,120 OK, so what does progressive discourse 199 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,320 look like in practice? 200 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,120 Well, they give a few key ingredients. 201 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,160 One is having really clear definitions. 202 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:43,720 OK. 203 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,560 Because education is a complex field full of jargon, 204 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,680 so you have to make sure that everyone's on the same page. 205 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,480 Right, we're not talking past each other. 206 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,000 Exactly. 207 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,880 OK, what's another key ingredient? 208 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,680 Another key ingredient is focusing on improvement, 209 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,400 not just agreement. 210 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,400 So it's not about winning an argument. 211 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:04,400 It's about finding solutions that genuinely help students. 212 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,040 OK, less about being right, more about doing right 213 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:07,720 by the students. 214 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:08,280 Exactly. 215 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,120 I like that. 216 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:10,400 What's that last piece? 217 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,040 And the last piece is focusing on evidence, not just 218 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:14,720 opinions. 219 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:15,400 OK. 220 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,480 So using data-driven decisions, especially 221 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,440 when you're dealing with a wicked problem like education. 222 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,280 OK, so it's about bringing research into the conversation, 223 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:27,920 not just hunches and anecdotes. 224 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:28,680 Exactly. 225 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,640 But with education being so complex, 226 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,000 how do we even gather the right data 227 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,880 to make those informed decisions? 228 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,040 Well, that's where the book gets into the different types 229 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,600 of research that can be used in schools. 230 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,840 They talk about things like action research, 231 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,520 where teachers are actually doing research 232 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,560 in their own classrooms to answer specific questions 233 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,080 and challenges that they're facing. 234 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:51,640 I love that. 235 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,560 It gives teachers a voice in the research process. 236 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:55,160 Absolutely. 237 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,360 What other kinds of research do they discuss? 238 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,240 They talk about evaluation research 239 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,880 to see how effective programs are and what impact they're 240 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,280 having on student learning. 241 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,160 So it's not just about hoping for the best. 242 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,360 It's about actually measuring the impact of what we're doing. 243 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:10,400 Exactly. 244 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,640 And of course, they talk about the classic quantitative 245 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:18,040 versus qualitative debate, numbers versus narratives. 246 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:18,520 Right. 247 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,080 Can you break that down for me a little bit? 248 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:21,800 When would you use one over the other? 249 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,360 Well, sometimes the story is best told through numbers, 250 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,480 hard facts, figures, things like that. 251 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,240 But other times, you need those richer, more descriptive 252 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,320 stories that qualitative research can provide. 253 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,160 The book emphasizes using the right tool 254 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:39,960 for the research question at hand. 255 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:40,280 Right. 256 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,960 It's about having a diverse toolkit 257 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,960 and knowing when to use each tool. 258 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,040 Exactly. 259 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,720 But research isn't just about gathering data, right? 260 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,320 There's also an ethical dimension to consider. 261 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:52,960 Absolutely. 262 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,840 Especially when we're talking about research involving 263 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:55,640 students. 264 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:56,120 Yeah. 265 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,760 And the book emphasizes that very strongly. 266 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,640 How do we make sure we're conducting research in a way 267 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,320 that's ethical and responsible and respectful 268 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,600 of everyone involved? 269 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,960 It's about being very mindful of student privacy 270 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,320 and ensuring informed consent and always putting 271 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,480 the well-being of students first. 272 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,440 So it's about finding that balance 273 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,200 between the pursuit of knowledge and the protection 274 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:19,800 of our students. 275 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:20,520 Exactly. 276 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:21,480 OK. 277 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,880 So we've got this wicked problem, this massive paradigm 278 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,000 shift, the need for data-driven decisions. 279 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,840 But I think a lot of educators might be feeling overwhelmed 280 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:31,520 by all this. 281 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:32,640 It's a lot to process. 282 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:33,160 Right. 283 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,000 So how do we even begin to approach this complexity? 284 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,600 Well, this is where the book's concept of transparent taming 285 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:40,120 comes in. 286 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:40,360 OK. 287 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:41,600 Let's revisit that idea. 288 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,200 I know we talked about it a little bit before, 289 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,240 but remind me, what does it mean to tame a wicked problem, 290 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,200 especially something as complex as education? 291 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,320 Well, think about it like a wild mustang. 292 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,520 You can't fully domesticate a wild mustang. 293 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:55,240 Right. 294 00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:00,000 But you can create a corral, a space where you can observe it, 295 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,840 you can understand its behavior, and maybe even train it 296 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:04,400 a little bit. 297 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,360 So we're not pretending to have complete control 298 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,000 over this wild beast of education. 299 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:11,560 Right. 300 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:14,640 But we're setting some temporary boundaries 301 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,560 to make it a little bit more manageable. 302 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:17,160 Exactly. 303 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,080 We acknowledge the wildness of the problem, 304 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,240 but we create these temporary boundaries. 305 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,800 And the books suggest different ways to do that, 306 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,720 like really nailing down the specific problem you're 307 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:28,640 trying to solve. 308 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,320 Or setting really clear criteria for success. 309 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:31,960 Right. 310 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,360 Or even limiting the range of solutions 311 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,520 that you're going to consider. 312 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:35,920 Yeah. 313 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,760 It's about making progress without getting 314 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,920 lost in the overwhelming vastness of the problem. 315 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,040 That makes a lot of sense, especially for educators 316 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,240 who are already feeling the pressure of all these changes. 317 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,840 But I guess the important thing to remember 318 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,440 is that this taming is transparent, 319 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,720 meaning we're not pretending that we have all the answers. 320 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:56,080 Exactly. 321 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,840 We're not pretending that we have all the answers. 322 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,960 Or that this is a permanent solution. 323 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,280 We're just being really pragmatic about how we approach 324 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:03,400 this complex problem. 325 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,200 So we've laid the groundwork here. 326 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,120 We've talked about wicked problems, paradigm shifts, 327 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,080 the role of technology, research, transparent taming. 328 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,000 I'm ready for the next step of our journey. 329 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,600 What's coming up in part two? 330 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,040 Let's dive deeper into the specific roles 331 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,280 of those tech-savvy folks we talked about. 332 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:22,800 Perfect. 333 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,280 I'm excited to unpack that more. 334 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,480 Yeah, me too. 335 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,680 So we were just talking about all these changes 336 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:29,640 swirling around in education. 337 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:30,840 Right, like a whirlwind. 338 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,400 Yeah, exactly. 339 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,680 And I think one area where it's particularly important 340 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:40,360 to kind of zoom in is the role of, well, all those tech-savvy 341 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:41,760 folks who are working in education. 342 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,480 Right, because it's not just about having the shiniest gadgets. 343 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,480 It's about having people who know how to make them actually 344 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:47,960 work. 345 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,600 Right, right. 346 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,520 And the book really emphasizes this shift 347 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,680 from traditional tech support, fixing broken laptops. 348 00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:57,320 Right. 349 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,800 To a deeper understanding of how technology can actually 350 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,560 support learning. 351 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,720 It's not just about keeping the machines running. 352 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,040 It's about making sure that those machines are actually 353 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,120 serving an educational purpose. 354 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,200 So it's less about being a tech wizard 355 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,240 and more about being an educational guide 356 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:17,360 in this digital world, right? 357 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,360 Exactly. 358 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,960 And the book digs into this whole idea of technology stewards. 359 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,240 And these aren't just your typical techies. 360 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,840 They're embedded within the school community. 361 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,800 They understand the needs of teachers and students. 362 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:32,640 OK. 363 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,480 And they get all the possibilities that technology offers. 364 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:37,960 So they're like the bridge. 365 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:38,460 Exactly. 366 00:13:38,460 --> 00:13:41,000 They're like translators between the tech world 367 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,200 and the world of education. 368 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,960 That's such a good point, because teachers already 369 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,640 have so much on their plates. 370 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:46,480 Oh, absolutely. 371 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:51,280 Having someone who can not only troubleshoot tech issues, 372 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,040 but also show teachers how tech can actually 373 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,880 make their lives easier and make their lessons better, 374 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,560 that's huge E. 375 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:00,880 Absolutely. 376 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,360 And one thing the book highlights 377 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,040 is that these technology stewards, often they actually 378 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,560 come from the teaching ranks themselves. 379 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:07,480 But that's interesting. 380 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,320 So it's not some outsider coming in and telling teachers 381 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:11,440 how to do their jobs. 382 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,080 Exactly. 383 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,000 It's someone who's actually walked in their shoes. 384 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:14,320 Right. 385 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:15,480 They get it. 386 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,480 They understand what it's like to be in the classroom. 387 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,680 That must make a huge key difference 388 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,280 in terms of building trust. 389 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:22,000 Oh, for sure. 390 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:22,560 Yeah. 391 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,880 Teachers are way more likely to be open to new ideas 392 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,680 if they're coming from someone they trust. 393 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:27,960 Right. 394 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,320 Someone who speaks their language. 395 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:29,960 Exactly. 396 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:30,440 Yeah. 397 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,080 And the book lays out these three key areas 398 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,400 where these technology stewards really shine. 399 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:36,840 OK. 400 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:37,920 I'm all ears. 401 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:38,120 OK. 402 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,640 So first up, ensuring ease of use. 403 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:42,000 OK. 404 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,360 That makes sense. 405 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,320 They got to make sure the tech is user friendly. 406 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:45,720 Right. 407 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,240 Because if the technology is just a big headache to use, 408 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,240 it's just going to end up gathering dust on a shelf 409 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:51,640 somewhere. 410 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:52,520 Exactly. 411 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:53,880 No matter how amazing it is. 412 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,560 Yeah, exactly. 413 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:01,200 So what do these stewards do to ensure that ease of use? 414 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,080 Well, they're involved in everything 415 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,280 from choosing the right tech tools 416 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,760 to installing and testing them and making sure 417 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,600 that they're intuitive and easy to use. 418 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,200 So they're like the tech whisperers 419 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,120 who smooth out all the wrinkles. 420 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:15,760 Exactly. 421 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,000 So teachers can actually focus on teaching. 422 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,200 Yeah, not troubleshooting. 423 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,520 Yeah, exactly. 424 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,000 OK, so that's ease of use. 425 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:23,880 What's next? 426 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,640 OK, so next is ensuring usefulness. 427 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:27,920 OK. 428 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,400 It's got to be more than just having cool shiny gadgets. 429 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,120 Right, right. 430 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,680 It's going to actually serve a purpose. 431 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:34,960 Exactly. 432 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,760 The technology steward has to make sure 433 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,240 that the gadgets actually align with the school's learning 434 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:40,640 goals. 435 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:41,280 Got it. 436 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,800 And they're constantly evaluating new technologies, 437 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,480 assessing their potential to improve lessons, 438 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,520 or help with particular learning challenges. 439 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,120 So they're like matchmakers pairing the right tech 440 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:55,600 Exactly. 441 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,160 with the right educational goals. 442 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,240 Perfect analogy. 443 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,480 OK, so we've got ease of use. 444 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:01,600 We've got usefulness. 445 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:02,000 Right. 446 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,760 What's that third area where they make a difference? 447 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,240 OK, the third one is facilitating everyday use. 448 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,200 OK. 449 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,480 So it's about providing ongoing support to teachers. 450 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:14,120 OK. 451 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,320 Offering training. 452 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:15,800 Right. 453 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,240 Even co-teaching opportunities. 454 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:17,720 Oh, OK. 455 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:23,520 So teachers can integrate tech seamlessly 456 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:24,760 into their classrooms. 457 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,840 Yeah, and that's where I think that trust 458 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,600 in those relationships we talked about before really 459 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,360 come into play. 460 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:31,720 Yes. 461 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,200 Because it's one thing to go to a training, 462 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,520 but it's another thing to actually have someone there 463 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,840 alongside you in the classroom guiding you, supporting you. 464 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,360 They become mentors and coaches to their colleagues. 465 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:44,840 Yeah. 466 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,080 And it's not just teachers who have to adapt in this new tech 467 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,240 heavy landscape. 468 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,200 The book talks about administrators too. 469 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,520 Oh, right. 470 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:54,880 Because they're the ones making the big decisions 471 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,920 about what technology is to invest in, how to use them, 472 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,680 how to support teachers. 473 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:00,160 Yeah. 474 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:01,760 They have a lot on their shoulders. 475 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:02,880 It's a lot of responsibility. 476 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:03,520 It is. 477 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,800 And the book emphasizes that administrators 478 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,240 need to really understand this whole technology planning 479 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,320 cycle. 480 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:10,880 OK. 481 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,280 You know, from figuring out what the needs are 482 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,640 to evaluating whether the tech is actually working. 483 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,880 So they need that big picture vision, 484 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,960 but also that grounded understanding of what's actually 485 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,280 happening in classrooms. 486 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,080 Yes. 487 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:25,080 It's a real balancing act. 488 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:25,560 Yeah. 489 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,120 And it's not just about the tech itself. 490 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:27,520 OK. 491 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,840 It's about creating this whole culture 492 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,440 where everyone feels comfortable sharing ideas, 493 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:33,680 talking about challenges. 494 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:34,800 And that open dialogue. 495 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:35,320 Exactly. 496 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,760 It all circles back to that progressive discourse idea 497 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:38,440 we were discussing. 498 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,080 Yeah, yeah. 499 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,520 It's about shifting the tone of the conversation away 500 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,720 from heated debates. 501 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:44,160 Right. 502 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:44,520 Right. 503 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,960 And toward brainstorming and problem solving. 504 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:47,400 Yes. 505 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,200 And getting away from these really polarized arguments 506 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,040 that we often see. 507 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:51,640 I've been sure heard. 508 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,480 You know, when it comes to education. 509 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:53,960 Absolutely. 510 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,200 It's about creating a space where we can actually 511 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,040 listen to each other, learn from each other, 512 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,280 and find solutions that really benefit everyone. 513 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:02,720 Absolutely. 514 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,440 And remember, progressive discourse 515 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,120 hinges on a few key ingredients. 516 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:09,480 OK. 517 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:10,120 Remind me. 518 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:12,320 Well, first, clear definitions. 519 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:12,920 OK. 520 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,920 You know, making sure everyone's on the same page 521 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:16,440 about what we're even talking about. 522 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:16,680 Right. 523 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,600 Because education speaking is full of jargon and buzzwords. 524 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:20,600 It really is. 525 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:21,800 So we've got to define our terms. 526 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:22,240 OK. 527 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,400 That makes sense. 528 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,240 Second ingredient. 529 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:24,800 OK. 530 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,720 Focusing on improvement, not just agreement. 531 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,320 It's not about winning an argument. 532 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:30,840 Right. 533 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,440 It's about coming together with a shared goal. 534 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,200 OK. 535 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,120 Of making things better for students. 536 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:38,760 So it's less about egos. 537 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:39,080 Exactly. 538 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:40,360 And more about empathy. 539 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:40,760 Yes. 540 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,360 Less about being right. 541 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,360 And more about doing right by our students. 542 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:44,960 Absolutely. 543 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:45,240 OK. 544 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:45,840 I love that. 545 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,640 And what's that final ingredient? 546 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:48,440 The final one. 547 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:49,440 And this one's crucial. 548 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:49,800 Yeah. 549 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:50,600 Evidence. 550 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:51,120 OK. 551 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,360 It's about basing decisions not on gut feelings 552 00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:55,480 or personal opinions. 553 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:55,960 Right. 554 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,600 But on solid research and data. 555 00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,120 Yeah. 556 00:18:59,120 --> 00:18:59,640 Yeah. 557 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,600 Being willing to let go of cherished beliefs. 558 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:02,880 OK. 559 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,120 If the evidence shows that they're not actually helping students. 560 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,360 And that's where I think it gets really tricky sometimes. 561 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:08,520 Right. 562 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,720 Because education is so closely tied to our values. 563 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:13,240 Yeah. 564 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:13,560 For sure. 565 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,680 And our beliefs about how the world works. 566 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:17,480 Absolutely. 567 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,680 It's hard to separate those. 568 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:19,920 It is. 569 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,440 It's from just the cold hard facts. 570 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,560 And that's precisely why this progressive discourse 571 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,160 is so important. 572 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:28,480 It gives us this space. 573 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:28,920 OK. 574 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,280 Where we can examine those assumptions, 575 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:32,760 challenge those biases. 576 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:33,440 Right. 577 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:33,920 Right. 578 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,760 And make decisions that are rooted in evidence. 579 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:37,120 Yeah. 580 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:37,920 Not emotion. 581 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:38,440 OK. 582 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:39,680 That's a good distinction. 583 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,520 And speaking of evidence, the book 584 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,680 gets into all the different types of research. 585 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:44,040 Yeah. 586 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,560 That can be conducted in schools. 587 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:46,000 OK. 588 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,440 And it really highlights that you 589 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,840 have to choose the right tool for the job. 590 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:50,200 Right. 591 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,200 Because research and education, it 592 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,160 can feel kind of overwhelming. 593 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:54,960 Oh, absolutely. 594 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,360 Like there's so many different approaches and methodologies 595 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:00,440 and jargon to navigate. 596 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,480 Exactly. 597 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,680 That's why it's so important to understand the basics. 598 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,520 So for example, the book talks about action research. 599 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:07,080 Right. 600 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,920 Where teachers actually get to be the researchers 601 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:11,840 in their own classrooms. 602 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:12,760 I love that. 603 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:13,680 Yeah, it's great. 604 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,000 They explore questions and challenges 605 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,160 that they're facing every day. 606 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:17,680 Yeah. 607 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,880 So they're not just using research. 608 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,360 They're actually generating it. 609 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:21,920 Yeah. 610 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:22,320 Yeah. 611 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,000 They have a voice. 612 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:23,600 Exactly. 613 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:23,920 OK. 614 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,120 So that's action research. 615 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:25,720 Right. 616 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,200 And then there's evaluation research. 617 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:27,800 OK. 618 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,400 Which helps us assess whether programs are really working. 619 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:32,080 OK. 620 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,800 You know, are they achieving their goals? 621 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:34,200 Right. 622 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,960 Are they actually making a difference? 623 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,000 So we're not just throwing things at the wall 624 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,160 and hoping they stick. 625 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:39,640 Exactly. 626 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,360 We're actually measuring whether they're 627 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:42,560 making a positive impact. 628 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:43,240 Exactly. 629 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:43,720 OK. 630 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,560 And the book also gets into that classic distinction 631 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,600 between quantitative and qualitative. 632 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:50,440 Yes. 633 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,240 The age old debate. 634 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,960 Numbers versus narratives. 635 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:54,560 Exactly. 636 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,400 Can you give me a quick breakdown of when 637 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,360 you might use one versus the other? 638 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:00,040 Sure. 639 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,960 Sometimes the story is best told through hard numbers. 640 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:04,160 OK. 641 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,360 Those cold hard facts. 642 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:05,920 Right. 643 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,520 But other times you need those more in-depth richer 644 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:10,120 stories. 645 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:10,680 Right. 646 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,520 That qualitative research can offer. 647 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:13,040 Yeah. 648 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,920 And the book really stresses, you know, 649 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,720 using the right tool for the job. 650 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:17,240 OK. 651 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,280 Both are valuable, but you got to choose the right one. 652 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:19,680 OK. 653 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:20,480 That makes sense. 654 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,280 But gathering data is just one part of the research puzzle, 655 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:23,440 right? 656 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:23,720 Right. 657 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:23,920 Right. 658 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,360 There's a whole ethical dimension. 659 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:25,880 Yes. 660 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,640 Especially when we're talking about kids. 661 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,040 Exactly. 662 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,920 And the book emphasizes that very strongly. 663 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:32,440 OK. 664 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,080 Research needs to be ethical, responsible, and respectful 665 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,160 to everyone involved. 666 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:38,760 OK. 667 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,200 So it's about finding that balance between wanting 668 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,240 to learn more and protect our students. 669 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:43,920 Exactly. 670 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,240 You have to be both a rigorous researcher 671 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,760 and be a compassionate educator. 672 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,080 Yeah. 673 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,000 Now, I know all this might feel like a lot. 674 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,480 It is. 675 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:54,840 It is. 676 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:55,520 It's complex. 677 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,160 Yeah. 678 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,360 But the book gives us this great concept. 679 00:21:58,360 --> 00:21:58,760 OK. 680 00:21:58,760 --> 00:21:59,960 Transparent taming. 681 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:00,520 Yes. 682 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,000 Let's revisit that idea. 683 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,040 So we know we can't completely domesticate education. 684 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:06,920 It's too wild. 685 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:07,120 Right. 686 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:08,160 It's like that Mustang. 687 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,080 Exactly. 688 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,080 But can we at least create some, like, boundaries? 689 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:13,680 Yeah. 690 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:13,920 Yeah. 691 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,560 To make it feel a little more manageable? 692 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:17,520 Exactly. 693 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,520 Transparent taming acknowledges that education is complex. 694 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:23,320 OK. 695 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,280 But it gives us some practical tools to make progress. 696 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,720 The book suggests a few things, like really defining 697 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,800 the specific problem you're trying to solve. 698 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,640 OK. 699 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,120 Setting very clear goals for success. 700 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:39,000 Or even narrowing down the range of solutions. 701 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,600 You can consider it's about breaking those huge problems 702 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,160 into smaller, more bite-sized chunks. 703 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,040 Yeah. 704 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,560 And just as importantly, we have 705 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,080 to be honest about the limitations of this taming. 706 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:51,480 OK. 707 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,520 We're not claiming to have all the answers. 708 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:53,760 Right. 709 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,160 We're saying we can solve every problem. 710 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:56,680 OK. 711 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,000 We're just recognizing that progress is made in steps 712 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,360 and that our best efforts don't always 713 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,920 lead to the outcome we're hoping for. 714 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,760 So it's about being realistic, being humble, 715 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,720 and being willing to change course. 716 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:12,200 Exactly. 717 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,640 It's about finding that balance between action 718 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,560 and acceptance. 719 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:16,160 OK. 720 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,240 We're acknowledging that education is constantly 721 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,120 shifting and changing. 722 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:19,440 Right. 723 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,320 Right. 724 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,840 And we got to stay flexible. 725 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:22,480 OK. 726 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,320 So we've talked about the roles of those tech folks. 727 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,640 We've revisited progressive discourse. 728 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:28,960 Right. 729 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,560 We dug deeper into research and this taming idea. 730 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:32,880 Yeah. 731 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,720 It feels like we've got all these pieces. 732 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:35,680 Right. 733 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,600 But how do they fit together? 734 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,320 What does it all mean for the future of education? 735 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,960 That's the million dollar question, isn't it? 736 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:42,520 Yeah. 737 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,840 That's what I really want to unpack next. 738 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:49,120 So we've explored wicked problems and paradigm shifts 739 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:52,520 and even tried to tame the beast of education. 740 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,160 But where does all of this lead? 741 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,640 What's the big picture here? 742 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,040 Where is all of this heading? 743 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,000 Well, the book kind of lays out this picture 744 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,760 of this massive transition in education. 745 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:02,960 You know? 746 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:03,680 OK. 747 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,880 Almost like when we all switched from those old clunky 748 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,400 landline phones to smartphones. 749 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,720 Remember how weird that felt at first? 750 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:13,480 Totally. 751 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,760 Although I do kind of miss that satisfying slam 752 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,800 of hanging up on a telemarketer. 753 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:18,440 Yeah. 754 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:19,640 But I get your point. 755 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,600 So what's the smartphone equivalent in the world 756 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:23,560 of education? 757 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,920 Well, they argue that we're moving from what 758 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,760 they call an engineered system to a sociocultural system. 759 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:30,520 OK. 760 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:31,440 Those are some big words. 761 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,120 Can you break those down for me a bit? 762 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:33,960 Sure. 763 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,720 Think of it like imagine the difference between, you know, 764 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,760 a perfectly planned city grid. 765 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:39,480 OK. 766 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,720 And a like bustling organic forest. 767 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:44,320 OK. 768 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:44,960 OK. 769 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,360 Starting to see the contrast. 770 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,000 So the old engineered system. 771 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:48,920 That was like that grid. 772 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,760 Everything was neat. 773 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:50,920 Everything was predictable. 774 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:51,160 Right. 775 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,440 Like everyone learns the same stuff at the same pace. 776 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:54,040 Exactly. 777 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,280 No detours allowed. 778 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:55,760 Right. 779 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:56,520 Right. 780 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,240 And that worked for a while, but it's feeling kind of rigid 781 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:00,600 now. 782 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,360 OK. 783 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,920 The sociocultural model, it embraces the messiness. 784 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:05,440 OK. 785 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,200 Of learning, how knowledge is always changing, 786 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,720 and how tech is constantly throwing us curveballs. 787 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,440 So does that mean classrooms become like total free 788 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:14,360 for alls? 789 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:15,120 Not quite. 790 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:15,400 OK. 791 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,120 It's more like personalized learning, you know? 792 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,280 But within a structure that supports that. 793 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:20,880 OK. 794 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,240 So imagine classrooms where like you're 795 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,360 tackling real world problems. 796 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:26,880 OK. 797 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,360 Using tech to connect with experts, like globally. 798 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,400 And you're learning at your own speed. 799 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,080 OK. 800 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,760 Yeah, that sounds way more engaging than just like memorizing 801 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,080 facts from a textbook. 802 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,040 Totally. 803 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,600 But what does all of this mean for teachers? 804 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,280 Right. 805 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,400 Their role has to like totally change, right? 806 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,760 It's a shift from that sage on the stage. 807 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,200 Right. 808 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,880 To guide on the side, you know. 809 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:50,360 Right. 810 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:55,160 Teachers become more like facilitators, mentors, co-learners 811 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,280 with their students. 812 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,200 Wow. 813 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,440 It's all about navigating this complex world together. 814 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,200 I mean, that requires a totally different set of stills. 815 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:03,880 Absolutely. 816 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,600 You got to be tech savvy, obviously, 817 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,080 but also like comfortable with uncertainty. 818 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:09,440 Right. 819 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,200 Able to adapt on the fly. 820 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:11,640 Yeah. 821 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,000 That's asking a lot. 822 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:13,520 You're right. 823 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,280 It is. 824 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,080 Yeah, it's not just about changing lesson plans. 825 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,040 It's like a fundamental shift in how educators think 826 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:19,800 about their role. 827 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,160 Yeah, a whole new mindset. 828 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,960 Yeah, exactly. 829 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,480 And what about those leading the charge, 830 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,640 like school administrators? 831 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,200 What does this mean for them? 832 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,160 Well, they can't just be managers anymore. 833 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:29,720 OK. 834 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,600 They got to be more like visionaries, almost like entrepreneurs. 835 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:34,280 Right. 836 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,400 They have to build this culture where 837 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,800 this kind of flexible, future-focused education 838 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:40,840 can actually thrive. 839 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,200 Yeah, so they're embracing that progressive discourse, 840 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,120 empowering their teachers to actually innovate and try 841 00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:48,680 new things. 842 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,160 Exactly. 843 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,320 That's the leadership this new world demands. 844 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,120 And here's something else I found really interesting 845 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,320 in the book, this idea that education is breaking out 846 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,280 of the school building. 847 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,040 Oh, yeah. 848 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,160 So it's not just about what happens between 9 and 3 anymore. 849 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:02,800 Exactly. 850 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,480 OK, so what does that look like? 851 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,840 Think more like a connected learning ecosystem. 852 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:07,320 OK. 853 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,160 So you've got partnerships with businesses, 854 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,960 project-based learning that tackles real community issues. 855 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,840 School becomes part of this much bigger web. 856 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,760 So it's like the world doesn't stop at the school gates. 857 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,240 Right. 858 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,240 So why should education? 859 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,000 It's about preparing you for life, not just a test. 860 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,440 And it's not just about job skills, right? 861 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:29,920 Try again. 862 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,560 It's about those adaptable skills that 863 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,480 are going to be valuable no matter what happens in the future. 864 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:35,960 Absolutely. 865 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,680 Like critical thinking, creativity, collaboration, 866 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,000 all those things that make you a lifelong learner. 867 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:41,720 Exactly. 868 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,040 It's about preparing you not just for the world as it is, 869 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,400 but for what it's becoming. 870 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,000 Wow. 871 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,840 And honestly, that's going to take all of us working together. 872 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:51,080 Yeah. 873 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,800 Educators, parents, policymakers, everyone. 874 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,120 It's a big challenge. 875 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:56,480 It is. 876 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,240 But also kind of exciting. 877 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,040 Oh, absolutely. 878 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,880 It's like we're not just fixing a few things. 879 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,320 We're like reimagining the whole point of education. 880 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,720 And the book reminds us this is like an ongoing conversation, 881 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:08,800 not a finished product. 882 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:09,240 Right. 883 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,880 It's a journey, not a destination. 884 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:11,560 Exactly. 885 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,320 So I think that brings us to that thought-provoking question 886 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:14,880 from the book. 887 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:15,400 OK. 888 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:16,200 Hit me with it. 889 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,720 If Education OSS moving from this rigid system 890 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,440 to this dynamic, ever-changing one, 891 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,200 how is that going to affect your life? 892 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,120 Yeah. 893 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:28,240 Think about that for a second. 894 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,040 How do you see the future of education unfolding? 895 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,080 And maybe even more importantly, what role 896 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,800 do you want to play in shaping it? 897 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,800 Because this isn't just some abstract theory 898 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,640 we're talking about. 899 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,920 It's about the future we're building together. 900 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,720 Absolutely. 901 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,320 So that brings us to the end of our deep dive. 902 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,480 Hopefully, this has sparked some new ideas. 903 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,840 And maybe even some healthy debate. 904 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:48,440 For sure. 905 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,520 Keep exploring. 906 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:50,480 Keep questioning. 907 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,040 Yeah. 908 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,760 And keep pushing the boundaries of what education can be. 909 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,480 Because the future is waiting to be learned. 910 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:19,120 Thanks for joining us on this deep dive.