WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.160 All my treatments are geared towards what is 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:06.860 the primary root issue and what do we do to actually, 00:00:06.860 --> 00:00:09.320 you know, help achieve better balance there. 00:00:09.900 --> 00:00:12.580 So, yeah, so I have a very we do that all the 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:16.300 time. And that's my main area of research is 00:00:16.300 --> 00:00:19.300 autism, but especially, you know, working with 00:00:19.300 --> 00:00:23.140 the non -speaking autistic community and trying 00:00:23.140 --> 00:00:26.379 to help them to communicate or get their voice 00:00:26.379 --> 00:00:31.039 and not lose their genius. Yeah, they're in there. 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:37.299 Oh more than you can imagine. Yeah Yeah, so Yeah, 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:39.340 maybe you can just start with telling us about 00:00:39.340 --> 00:00:41.880 your journey into medicine and then specifically 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:47.179 Autism. Okay. So for me my journey into the healthcare 00:00:47.179 --> 00:00:51.579 world really started with My own personal interest. 00:00:51.579 --> 00:00:56.820 I was an athlete growing up and I got very interested 00:00:56.820 --> 00:01:00.539 in health and nutrition I also struggled with 00:01:00.539 --> 00:01:03.780 certain injuries and things like that. And early 00:01:03.780 --> 00:01:06.480 on, like most people, I was exposed to many different 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.000 forms of health care and medicine. My parents 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:13.040 had a very open mentality and were very holistic 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.019 in their thinking from the beginning. They were 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:19.000 kind of ahead of their time. And one of the people 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.719 that really influenced me and treated me a lot, 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:24.939 especially with my athletic injuries, was a chiropractor. 00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:28.870 So When it came time I fell in love in high school 00:01:28.870 --> 00:01:34.069 with anatomy and physiology and I wanted to go 00:01:34.069 --> 00:01:36.629 into the healthcare field and really wanted to 00:01:36.629 --> 00:01:41.689 help other athletes like myself and so I really 00:01:41.689 --> 00:01:44.569 decided that the person that helped me the most 00:01:44.569 --> 00:01:46.930 was a chiropractor and I resonated with that. 00:01:47.090 --> 00:01:49.870 It didn't really resonate with medication and 00:01:49.870 --> 00:01:52.950 a lot of traditional medicine. And so I went 00:01:52.950 --> 00:01:54.769 into that and when I was there, I fell in love 00:01:54.769 --> 00:01:57.090 with neurology and neuroscience. You know, most 00:01:57.090 --> 00:02:00.170 people don't realize that chiropractic is founded 00:02:00.170 --> 00:02:02.969 in neurology and neuroscience and really were 00:02:02.969 --> 00:02:05.989 the first healthcare profession to really be 00:02:05.989 --> 00:02:11.069 founded in that. And so for me, you know, that 00:02:11.069 --> 00:02:13.889 kind of really, then I, in my mind, I wanted 00:02:13.889 --> 00:02:18.490 to kind of combine some way of working with neurology 00:02:18.490 --> 00:02:22.159 and neurological issues. but in a holistic, but 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:25.639 also rehab almost sports medicine type of way. 00:02:27.099 --> 00:02:29.680 And so that started being a lot of my research. 00:02:29.740 --> 00:02:31.840 And then I went, when I graduated, I went and 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:35.919 got a subspecialty in neurology, clinical neurology, 00:02:36.219 --> 00:02:38.919 and then rehabilitation. And then I started teaching 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:42.939 it. and then I went into clinical rehabilitation 00:02:42.939 --> 00:02:45.800 neuropsychology because I wanted to understand 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.020 the brain better and look at ways of measuring 00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:52.539 it functionally because I was developing a functional 00:02:52.539 --> 00:02:55.539 approach to really understanding what was happening 00:02:55.539 --> 00:02:58.860 in the brain and how to change it. And then as 00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:01.639 I developed that and it was going really well, 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.849 one of my children was diagnosed with ADHD. And 00:03:06.849 --> 00:03:09.189 a lot of my patients have been asking me about 00:03:09.189 --> 00:03:12.389 ADHD and autism. And I really didn't know a lot 00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:15.590 about it. So I really wanted to understand what 00:03:15.590 --> 00:03:19.789 was happening in my own child's brain. And if 00:03:19.789 --> 00:03:24.770 there were ways that I could help him. And that 00:03:24.770 --> 00:03:28.050 really started me on a 35 year journey, a 30 00:03:28.050 --> 00:03:31.289 year journey of really understanding. what is 00:03:31.289 --> 00:03:33.770 happening in the brain. It eventually led me 00:03:33.770 --> 00:03:37.610 to develop a PhD in developmental cognitive neuroscience 00:03:37.610 --> 00:03:40.830 to really understand human brain development 00:03:40.830 --> 00:03:43.870 at the highest level and how it all worked. But 00:03:43.870 --> 00:03:46.270 it really was always from the beginning, how 00:03:46.270 --> 00:03:50.250 do we do something to help? What can we do to 00:03:50.250 --> 00:03:54.370 improve function? Not change the individual. 00:03:55.129 --> 00:03:58.210 All three of my kids had different neurodivergent 00:03:58.210 --> 00:04:02.009 issues and are also unbelievably gifted in other 00:04:02.009 --> 00:04:06.150 ways. But really to help them to minimize anything 00:04:06.150 --> 00:04:10.169 they struggle with and not, you know, not take 00:04:10.169 --> 00:04:12.830 away their gifts or their talents. And that's 00:04:12.830 --> 00:04:16.689 where my my work is really revolved around. Yeah, 00:04:16.689 --> 00:04:19.389 it's important that these gifts and talented 00:04:19.389 --> 00:04:22.709 talents be cultivated. And I think that's one 00:04:22.709 --> 00:04:25.639 of the biggest harms. Things that are neglected 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.399 I think in society in many different factors 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:33.980 aspects of it Are the harms of it? Yeah, I think 00:04:33.980 --> 00:04:38.800 understanding the nature of the gift Neuroscience 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:42.959 wise also leads to vulnerabilities So the gift, 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:46.139 you know from an early age there was a saying 00:04:46.139 --> 00:04:48.019 I don't know if you ever heard of it You know, 00:04:48.019 --> 00:04:50.579 there's a thin line between genius and insanity 00:04:51.509 --> 00:04:53.990 And not to, I don't mean that as an insulting 00:04:53.990 --> 00:04:56.470 way, but it's just saying that, that always, 00:04:56.670 --> 00:04:58.750 even as a kid, I didn't understand that. Why 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:01.990 would someone be so gifted and be genius, but 00:05:01.990 --> 00:05:05.009 then also be so sad that they commit suicide 00:05:05.009 --> 00:05:07.970 or turn to drugs or, you know what I mean? And 00:05:07.970 --> 00:05:11.470 that was the story of many, many famous people. 00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:14.269 And I read a lot of those books when I was a 00:05:14.269 --> 00:05:17.550 kid and I wanted to understand that. And so a 00:05:17.550 --> 00:05:21.329 lot of what my mission now is about letting parents 00:05:21.329 --> 00:05:25.089 or individuals understand, whether they're in 00:05:25.089 --> 00:05:28.870 the autism community or dyslexic community or 00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:32.850 whatever, that the more gifted you are in an 00:05:32.850 --> 00:05:37.089 area, the more likely you are to develop an imbalance 00:05:37.089 --> 00:05:40.329 in other areas and other networks on the other 00:05:40.329 --> 00:05:43.949 side of the brain. And that can lead to these 00:05:43.949 --> 00:05:46.829 very big gaps between strengths and weaknesses 00:05:46.829 --> 00:05:50.889 and that is really the nature of the problem 00:05:50.889 --> 00:05:55.410 that is the root issue and you know letting people 00:05:55.410 --> 00:05:58.269 know that you know someone or a parent let's 00:05:58.269 --> 00:06:01.170 say that as a child on the autism spectrum that 00:06:01.170 --> 00:06:03.649 you didn't do anything wrong like a lot of people 00:06:03.649 --> 00:06:06.829 feel like that you gave your child an incredible 00:06:06.829 --> 00:06:11.339 gift um you know usually the parents of kids 00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:15.439 with autism are extremely bright, extremely intelligent, 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:19.100 as are the siblings. And the people that are 00:06:19.100 --> 00:06:21.819 autistic are the most intelligent in the family, 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.180 but they also may be the ones that end up with 00:06:25.180 --> 00:06:29.000 a more severe imbalance. And that may lead to 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:31.279 struggles that other people in the family don't 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:35.199 have. And my goal is to first and foremost, let 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:39.240 people know that your child is is a genius and 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:41.860 like even in the non -speaking end of it as we 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:45.220 talked they are beyond geniuses every one of 00:06:45.220 --> 00:06:48.879 them is just unbelievably intelligent smart but 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.439 they also are struggling with their body and 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:54.899 other issues so much that it's preventing them 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:57.300 from being able to speak and communicating control 00:06:57.300 --> 00:07:01.720 their body and my goal is to change that whenever 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.779 you're describing chiropractic or chiropractor 00:07:04.779 --> 00:07:08.139 it's like the spine is very much doing that, 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:11.160 isn't it? Because it's the central nervous system, 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:14.040 but it is the bridge between the body and the 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:17.240 brain. Yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, when 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.620 we look at human brains, evolutionary wise and 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:23.240 my first textbook that I, you know, the first 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:26.180 thing I did was spend about 10 years really researching 00:07:26.180 --> 00:07:28.939 everything and put it into a textbook called 00:07:28.939 --> 00:07:32.160 neurobehavioral disorders from an evolutionary 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.550 perspective. And when you look at one of the 00:07:35.550 --> 00:07:38.430 first things I looked at is where do brains come 00:07:38.430 --> 00:07:40.970 from on this planet? Like, why did they evolve 00:07:40.970 --> 00:07:44.310 to begin with? And the best researchers in the 00:07:44.310 --> 00:07:47.230 world at the time in that area, you know, were 00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:49.310 saying that it really came down to movement, 00:07:50.069 --> 00:07:52.430 that, you know, living things that don't move 00:07:52.430 --> 00:07:55.430 don't have a brain. Only living things that moved 00:07:55.430 --> 00:07:59.009 evolved the brain. And we know that, you know, 00:07:59.230 --> 00:08:02.110 in neuroscience is a term simple movement, simple 00:08:02.110 --> 00:08:05.870 brain, complex movement, complex brain. And the 00:08:05.870 --> 00:08:09.209 most complex brain is a human brain. And the 00:08:09.209 --> 00:08:12.790 most complex movement is bipedalism. And what 00:08:12.790 --> 00:08:16.410 is the key to bipedalism? It's the spine and 00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:20.370 the posture of the spine and the muscles and 00:08:20.370 --> 00:08:24.410 achieving an upright posture change the way that 00:08:24.410 --> 00:08:29.389 we utilize gravity. as a power source to the 00:08:29.389 --> 00:08:33.990 brain to make it more powerful, bigger, faster. 00:08:34.850 --> 00:08:38.409 And so the spine is really that this is all my 00:08:38.409 --> 00:08:40.950 research and a lot of our textbook was looking 00:08:40.950 --> 00:08:44.750 at it that the input from the spine and the muscles 00:08:44.750 --> 00:08:48.350 and especially the neck is the most important, 00:08:48.409 --> 00:08:53.149 most powerful, most ongoing input to the brain 00:08:53.149 --> 00:08:56.029 and is unique in humans. And we know When we're 00:08:56.029 --> 00:08:58.710 looking evolutionary for humans, what's the thing 00:08:58.710 --> 00:09:02.289 that defines a hominid? It's bipedalism posture, 00:09:02.289 --> 00:09:06.129 right? So how does that relate to a unique brain? 00:09:06.190 --> 00:09:10.309 And they're directly tied to one another. That's 00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:13.429 a fantastic discovery. Yeah, I don't think I've 00:09:13.429 --> 00:09:17.169 ever heard anybody speak on it like that, especially 00:09:17.169 --> 00:09:20.809 on the depths of UR. So what happens after that 00:09:20.809 --> 00:09:26.080 with your research? Well, after my textbook, 00:09:26.980 --> 00:09:30.899 we started, you know, then doing, you know, in 00:09:30.899 --> 00:09:33.740 the textbook, we create the really underlying 00:09:33.740 --> 00:09:36.700 model in theory. And really what we were searching 00:09:36.700 --> 00:09:40.600 for was a universal model that would speak to 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:45.399 all neurodivergent and mental health issues from 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:49.470 a developmental perspective. And so You know, 00:09:49.529 --> 00:09:52.590 we did that. Now the idea was, OK, we need to 00:09:52.590 --> 00:09:55.149 prove it, meaning let's go out there and do the 00:09:55.149 --> 00:09:59.529 actual research. And in the early 90s, when a 00:09:59.529 --> 00:10:02.309 lot of, you know, when new brain imaging came 00:10:02.309 --> 00:10:05.289 out and we could look at the brain in different 00:10:05.289 --> 00:10:11.330 ways functionally, it became aware that it really 00:10:11.330 --> 00:10:14.730 was, you know, different. Issues weren't because 00:10:14.730 --> 00:10:18.250 of damage or injury you look at an autistic brain 00:10:18.250 --> 00:10:20.950 with an MRI and it looks perfectly normal for 00:10:20.950 --> 00:10:24.970 the most part and You know, you don't the idea 00:10:24.970 --> 00:10:27.269 of it being a brain injury is completely wrong. 00:10:27.269 --> 00:10:32.470 It's not at all But what you do see are differences 00:10:32.470 --> 00:10:35.629 in what's called functional connectivity the 00:10:35.629 --> 00:10:39.450 way networks develop and the way networks communicate 00:10:41.529 --> 00:10:45.809 Is is a little bit different and what we've been 00:10:45.809 --> 00:10:49.110 able to show as we've gone on over 30 years and 00:10:49.110 --> 00:10:53.490 published over 100 papers on this is that really 00:10:53.490 --> 00:10:56.289 the search for what is actually happening in 00:10:56.289 --> 00:11:01.009 the brain? What is autism? What is ADHD? What 00:11:01.009 --> 00:11:05.129 is dyslexia and what is actually happening? How 00:11:05.129 --> 00:11:08.750 does it relate to the symptoms? And then how 00:11:08.750 --> 00:11:12.360 can we improve it? to be able to create more 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:15.620 of a balance or improve that functional communication 00:11:15.620 --> 00:11:20.080 so that we can really help that person become 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.440 the best version of themselves, right? How do 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.820 we rehabilitate that process without losing that 00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:30.679 person or their gifts or their uniqueness and 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.539 do it in a way that's respectful but understand 00:11:33.539 --> 00:11:36.899 that the brain is the source of it all and all 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:39.799 the things that happen in the body the gut, the 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:42.639 immune system, it's all related to the brain. 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.139 But a lot of that research hadn't been done. 00:11:45.659 --> 00:11:49.159 So we needed to tie that all together and really 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:51.559 look at it's really been the search for what's 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:55.279 the root cause? What it what starts it all? How 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:58.460 do you describe the problem? And then how can 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:00.299 you change it? Like one of the things that's 00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:03.639 never been answered really in the autism community 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:08.269 is why can't these people speak? Right when many 00:12:08.269 --> 00:12:11.409 of them are hyperlexic meaning they can read 00:12:11.409 --> 00:12:14.870 before the age of two Right. I have one child 00:12:14.870 --> 00:12:17.129 from England that could read at seven months 00:12:17.129 --> 00:12:22.570 but couldn't speak So the area that reads in 00:12:22.570 --> 00:12:25.190 the left brain is basically the same area that 00:12:25.190 --> 00:12:29.629 generates words So why can't they speak? No one's 00:12:29.629 --> 00:12:32.669 ever really answered that question and that's 00:12:32.669 --> 00:12:35.600 something that I wanted to answer you know, from 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.179 a really detailed neuroscience perspective. And 00:12:39.179 --> 00:12:41.600 I think we've been able to do that with our research 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.799 better than anybody else at this point, because 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:46.659 now we're in a position to say, OK, how do we 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:49.120 change it? How do we give them their voice if 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.720 that is possible? Yeah, I love how you describe 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:55.000 that you're going to the root cause and upstream. 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:59.940 I think a lot of research and interventions so 00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:03.460 forth. go too far downstream and everything looks 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:06.419 more confusing downstream. You're exactly right. 00:13:06.580 --> 00:13:08.840 I mean, most people, they're just managing symptoms 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:12.539 and behaviors because they don't know what the 00:13:12.539 --> 00:13:14.720 root cause is. They don't know what's actually 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.019 happening in the brain. And, you know, autism 00:13:17.019 --> 00:13:19.440 in particular is an area of research because 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.580 it's the most perplexing, right? It's definitely 00:13:22.580 --> 00:13:26.879 the most complex of any mental health, you know, 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.679 issue out there. You know, it's incredibly complex, 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.840 even more complex than most people realize when 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:36.179 you start getting into the non speaking world 00:13:36.179 --> 00:13:40.159 and you see their level of intellect. And so, 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:42.480 you know, they're just about managing symptoms. 00:13:42.620 --> 00:13:45.440 And as you said, it's all downstream. And when 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:48.179 you go downstream, there's all these different 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:53.039 issues going on that seem that seem not interconnected. 00:13:54.500 --> 00:13:57.059 And you know, medicine, you know, today, especially 00:13:57.059 --> 00:14:00.529 more than ever, is about looking at individual 00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:04.970 specialized pieces. And the brain and the body 00:14:04.970 --> 00:14:09.250 is an integrated system. And you cannot understand 00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:12.929 something as complex as autism if you don't really 00:14:12.929 --> 00:14:15.649 have great knowledge of the whole integrated 00:14:15.649 --> 00:14:18.690 system. So again, a lot of my journey has been 00:14:18.690 --> 00:14:21.830 education. I've been I've been, you know, I have 00:14:21.830 --> 00:14:24.830 two doctor degrees and master's degree. And, 00:14:24.830 --> 00:14:29.169 you know, I've spent my whole career educating 00:14:29.169 --> 00:14:32.870 myself and doing different degrees in different 00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:35.429 areas so that I can understand not only the brain 00:14:35.429 --> 00:14:38.450 and the nervous system but also the gut and the 00:14:38.450 --> 00:14:41.950 immune system and the autonomic system and you 00:14:41.950 --> 00:14:45.269 know all of these systems the motor the sentry 00:14:45.269 --> 00:14:48.389 understand it it's why I got a degree in neuropsychology 00:14:48.389 --> 00:14:50.490 so I can understand how do you measure these 00:14:50.490 --> 00:14:53.870 things objectively like and you know what what 00:14:53.870 --> 00:14:57.740 is actually happening. Um, and as you said, most 00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:00.399 people and most parents, they're looking at it 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:02.399 downstream. It's a great way that you put it 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:04.720 and they see all these fires that they're trying 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.919 to put out without saying, okay, what's the source 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:11.980 and not an understanding that there is really 00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:15.580 one source and it's in the brain and it starts 00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:19.100 in brain development. And it starts with a phenotype 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:23.340 and it starts with a trait that is this brilliant 00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:27.289 left brain dominant trait. And you know, and 00:15:27.289 --> 00:15:29.889 then this can create an imbalance. And a lot 00:15:29.889 --> 00:15:33.149 of it starts with, as we said, movement is what 00:15:33.149 --> 00:15:36.889 created brains. Movement is what creates human 00:15:36.889 --> 00:15:40.990 brains. And, you know, one of the unique vulnerabilities 00:15:40.990 --> 00:15:45.710 of the human brain is because we have the biggest 00:15:45.710 --> 00:15:49.389 brain per body size of any primate. But because 00:15:49.389 --> 00:15:53.250 we're bipedal, we have the smallest birth canal 00:15:53.250 --> 00:15:56.720 by far. So that means that we have really big 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:00.700 heads with a really small birth canal. No other 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:03.960 animal has to navigate that. And so therefore 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:07.419 every other animal, almost all of their brain 00:16:07.419 --> 00:16:11.000 is developed in the womb in a controlled setting. 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.740 And when they come out, it's almost adult size. 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:19.320 Human brains are only about 20 or 25 % of adult 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:23.860 size at birth. That means 75 to 80 percent of 00:16:23.860 --> 00:16:26.960 our brain development happens outside the womb. 00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:30.779 And that means that all those stages, you know, 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.659 coming out, going through the birth process, 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:37.120 rolling over, latching on, being able to crawl, 00:16:37.340 --> 00:16:39.840 being able to, you know, walk at the right time, 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:42.740 being able to talk and point and eye contact 00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:47.179 and movement. All of those milestones matter, 00:16:47.179 --> 00:16:50.419 especially in the first six years of life. and 00:16:50.419 --> 00:16:54.059 especially in the first year. And so if any of 00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:57.740 this, any deviation, because the brain and the 00:16:57.740 --> 00:17:00.720 human brain is so dynamic and so vulnerable, 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:04.319 it can throw off this developmental sequence 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.099 and that can result in these imbalances, which 00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:13.460 is really at the root cause of most issues. So 00:17:13.460 --> 00:17:15.779 let me ask, I wasn't planning on going here, 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:18.210 but now that it's been brought up a little bit, 00:17:18.549 --> 00:17:23.269 is the difference between the human baby, the 00:17:23.269 --> 00:17:28.670 infant, perinatal, versus like our close so -called 00:17:28.670 --> 00:17:32.170 relatives as far as genetic patchwork goes, like 00:17:32.170 --> 00:17:34.710 bonobos and chimps and so forth, we're very much 00:17:34.710 --> 00:17:37.349 different. Like we can't survive. We can't even 00:17:37.349 --> 00:17:44.490 sit up as a human. So I think one that kind of 00:17:44.490 --> 00:17:48.930 tells us it's probably not genetics, but how 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:53.549 much of it do you think is kind of developing 00:17:53.549 --> 00:17:58.150 and why before the birth or do you think it's 00:17:58.150 --> 00:18:01.670 more perinatal and that critical period leading 00:18:01.670 --> 00:18:05.630 up to the critical period? I think because most 00:18:05.630 --> 00:18:10.000 of our brain develops outside the womb that The 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.160 most important factor is how we interact with 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:17.259 our environment and utilizing that. So the human 00:18:17.259 --> 00:18:22.740 brain cells, so we know that basically 84 % of 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:27.140 the genes in the human genome are active during 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:30.819 brain development. So most of our genes play 00:18:30.819 --> 00:18:33.579 a role in brain development more than any other 00:18:33.579 --> 00:18:36.559 animal. And so there is a genetic component. 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.559 We know that those genes are mostly what we call 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.759 experience dependent genes, which means they're 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:49.279 dependent on environmental experience to activate 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.180 them, literally turn them on. So the genes that 00:18:53.180 --> 00:18:57.200 regulate the brain are the most sensitive because 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:02.700 we need to know to not grow the brain too much 00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:06.180 inside the womb. If the brain grew too early 00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:10.750 and too aggressively, we wouldn't get out. So 00:19:10.750 --> 00:19:14.950 our genes have to be sensitive to know when not 00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:19.509 to really grow too much so that we can get out 00:19:19.509 --> 00:19:22.730 and then they need to know when they're out and 00:19:22.730 --> 00:19:25.769 be able to go, okay, now grow like crazy so that 00:19:25.769 --> 00:19:29.750 we go from 20 % to 90 % in the first three years 00:19:29.750 --> 00:19:34.200 of growth. And so what we see And that's not 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.539 creating new cells. It's mostly creating networks 00:19:37.539 --> 00:19:43.339 and communication and connectivity. So our genes 00:19:43.339 --> 00:19:46.240 that regulate the brain are unique. Our brains 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.920 are unique. The development of our brains are 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.539 unique. But what it does is it means that our 00:19:52.539 --> 00:19:56.660 brain and our genes are much more dependent and 00:19:56.660 --> 00:19:59.980 interactive with the environment, which is a 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:03.789 huge advantage. Because, you know, one researcher 00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:06.789 has said that the human brain is the Swiss army 00:20:06.789 --> 00:20:10.509 knife of brains, meaning our brains are more 00:20:10.509 --> 00:20:14.109 adaptable so we can adapt to any environment 00:20:14.109 --> 00:20:16.890 more quickly and more effectively than any other 00:20:16.890 --> 00:20:20.730 animal. So that is something from a survival 00:20:20.730 --> 00:20:24.609 perspective that is very advantageous. But it 00:20:24.609 --> 00:20:27.329 means that if we don't have the proper environmental 00:20:27.329 --> 00:20:31.759 input at the right time, It can also be a disadvantage. 00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:35.839 And that's why other animals don't suffer as 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:39.299 much from things like schizophrenia or, you know, 00:20:39.460 --> 00:20:42.640 or autism or because their brains don't have 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.299 that capacity and they don't have the vulnerability. 00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:48.079 They don't have the upside and they don't have 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.700 the downside that our brain potentially has. 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.099 Yeah, we have a steep gradient and our environments 00:20:55.099 --> 00:20:58.319 have changed quite a bit over the last 130 years. 00:20:59.789 --> 00:21:03.670 One of the reasons why we see a huge change in 00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:07.109 the landscape of neurodivergence is because of 00:21:07.109 --> 00:21:10.509 that environment change has been dramatic, especially 00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:14.289 in the last 30 years with the advent of technology, 00:21:14.670 --> 00:21:19.150 computer technology, the World Wide Web and all 00:21:19.150 --> 00:21:21.990 of that. Ian McGilchrist, I don't know if you 00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:24.950 ever heard of him. He's a psychiatrist out of 00:21:24.950 --> 00:21:28.150 the UK. And, you know, he writes a lot about 00:21:28.150 --> 00:21:32.250 brain asymmetry and its relationship to psychiatry. 00:21:32.569 --> 00:21:35.150 But he's also published a couple of big volumes 00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:39.690 recently on more from a philosophical standpoint, 00:21:39.690 --> 00:21:42.910 you know, why are we seeing some of these mental 00:21:42.910 --> 00:21:45.789 health issues increasing? And he talks about 00:21:45.789 --> 00:21:48.809 how we're moving much more towards a left brain 00:21:48.809 --> 00:21:52.490 dominant world. You know, as we moved in Western 00:21:52.490 --> 00:21:56.920 society, from a hunter gatherer lifestyle to 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.119 a lifestyle that was more about, you know, reading 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:04.740 and science and, you know, in the industry and 00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:08.000 then move more and more to technology. We move 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.880 more towards a left brain style of thinking. 00:22:11.500 --> 00:22:16.319 And so what we see now is that, you know, our 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.859 society, our school, the way we teach kids. Everything 00:22:20.859 --> 00:22:25.079 about what we do feeds our left brain and does 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:28.799 not feed our right brain. And so it leads to 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.759 an environment that can create these imbalances 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:36.740 more. And it's also favoring the development 00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:39.319 of people that are more left brain dominant, 00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:42.140 you know, that we're getting more people getting 00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:46.180 together and having children that. really are 00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:48.440 both more left brain dominant. You know, in the 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.400 old days, a lot of people that were very left 00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:54.299 brain dominant that didn't have a way of communicating, 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:57.200 they might be home bodies or they might stay 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.660 home and read a lot and they're very, you know, 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.720 not very social and they're much more introspective 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.480 and they may never really met each other. Now. 00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:10.859 You know, with college campuses and campuses 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:13.940 like Google and Apple and, you know, where we 00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:17.740 can communicate via computer and and online dating, 00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:20.839 it's fostering people to be able to find one 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:24.559 another like that. And it's favoring it in society. 00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:26.859 You know, in autism, most people don't realize 00:23:26.859 --> 00:23:30.779 as you go up the socioeconomic scale, as you 00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:34.319 have higher degrees and as you live in better 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.710 neighborhoods. you're more likely to have a child 00:23:37.710 --> 00:23:41.730 with an autism diagnosis because it's a byproduct 00:23:41.730 --> 00:23:47.190 of this high intellect phenotype trait. You know, 00:23:47.289 --> 00:23:51.049 Simon Baron Cohen out of Cambridge wrote a book 00:23:51.049 --> 00:23:54.089 called, you know, Autism and the Technical Mind 00:23:54.089 --> 00:23:57.289 that it's been shown that in the families of 00:23:57.289 --> 00:24:00.480 people with autism, There's many more people 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.880 that are physicists mathematicians engineers 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.880 or especially computer technology So anywhere 00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:10.880 in the world like you have a cluster of people 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:14.500 in the IT world like Silicon Valley has the highest 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.400 concentration of autism in the world why because 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.859 that phenotype that engineering type brain Is 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:26.140 the foundation that is the phenotype of autism 00:24:26.140 --> 00:24:29.180 and if you get two people that have that and 00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:32.059 they have a child that even has a stronger version 00:24:32.059 --> 00:24:35.900 of that phenotype. It leads to more vulnerability, 00:24:35.900 --> 00:24:39.299 especially in a world that from the moment of 00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:41.740 birth doesn't really build the right brain the 00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:47.079 way it needs to be. Okay, so I want to talk about 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:50.980 the sensory processing and orienting our attention 00:24:50.980 --> 00:24:53.450 to the environment. I also want to talk about 00:24:53.450 --> 00:24:57.869 functional connectivity. So let's just start 00:24:57.869 --> 00:25:00.710 with the functional connectivity, I think, since 00:25:00.710 --> 00:25:05.789 you brought it up. And what is your best research 00:25:05.789 --> 00:25:10.609 and information on which networks? Is there a 00:25:10.609 --> 00:25:13.450 common networks kind of abnormal or different, 00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:19.089 I should say, or hyperconnected? And why is that, 00:25:19.109 --> 00:25:22.839 you think? Sure. Our research shows that it all 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.079 goes back to development and maturity. And as 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:28.400 we said, movement is what initiates it. Right. 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:32.460 And so what a lot of my expertise and I think 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:34.960 I'm probably considered the world expert right 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:37.859 now is an early development movement. There's 00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:41.400 something called primitive reflexes. Primitive 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:45.220 reflexes are these reflexive movement that we're 00:25:45.220 --> 00:25:49.000 born with in the womb, help us get out of the 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.539 womb. and help lead us through the first year 00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:54.440 of movement and development and activating our 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:57.859 genes. And they're well documented. They go back 00:25:57.859 --> 00:26:00.680 over 100 years. We've known about them. Pediatric 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:02.940 neurologists look at them in the first year of 00:26:02.940 --> 00:26:08.720 life. Pediatricians used to look at it. And so 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:13.980 what started coming out in the research many 00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:17.500 years ago was that there may be maybe these reflexes 00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:20.339 aren't going away so they're there to lead us 00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:23.839 through that first year of movement and develop 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:27.700 and then they need to go away and it was becoming 00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:31.099 more noticed by many clinicians that if they 00:26:31.099 --> 00:26:35.220 checked many of these reflexes weren't gone in 00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:40.859 kids with developmental issues and likewise We 00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:43.299 know that many of these kids were clumsy and 00:26:43.299 --> 00:26:47.240 awkward and physically had low muscle tone, you 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:50.819 know, weird ways in which they'd hold a pen and 00:26:50.819 --> 00:26:53.519 their posture was poor and they have head tilts 00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.140 and body tilts. And so we knew that there was 00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:59.740 a motor component, fine motor, gross motor coordination, 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.579 but no really kind of tied it together. And so 00:27:04.579 --> 00:27:07.519 it became recognized that these reflexes may 00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:11.740 not be going away. And that they may have something 00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:15.240 to do with, you know, the foundational issue, 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.079 but nobody really looked at it and said, all 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:21.140 right, well, you know, is that can we document 00:27:21.140 --> 00:27:23.759 for sure that they don't go away? Because in 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.380 traditional medicine and traditional neurology, 00:27:27.940 --> 00:27:31.180 these reflexes go away at one 100 % of the time 00:27:31.180 --> 00:27:34.759 without fail. There's no such thing as retained 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:39.200 reflexes. So my lab, what we wanted to do was 00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.400 first of all, prove that no, these reflexes often 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:46.240 don't go away. And then the next question was, 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:48.279 okay, well, if they don't go away, what does 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:50.700 that mean? What does that actually end up doing 00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:53.160 to the brain? How does it actually affect the 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.960 brain? And how does it relate to autism in particular? 00:27:57.579 --> 00:28:00.779 And also what's been noted is that some of these 00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:04.500 reflexes, which are always naturally symmetrical, 00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:11.259 When you examine people, they're often asymmetrical, 00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:16.299 meaning that you see them gone, they may be inhibited 00:28:16.299 --> 00:28:19.319 on one side, but retained on another. And what 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:22.960 does that mean? And so what we were able to show 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:28.079 really with a pretty extensive study is that 00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.440 these reflexes often don't go away. And in autism, 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:35.279 in almost virtually 100 % of the cases we saw, 00:28:35.420 --> 00:28:38.559 there are some retained reflexes, if not all 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.960 of them, to varying degrees, which has something 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.779 to do with the varying in the spectrum level 00:28:44.779 --> 00:28:50.220 of severity, right? There's also, what it does 00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:54.019 is when these reflexes don't go away, it prevents 00:28:54.019 --> 00:28:57.819 the next level of complex movement and it keeps 00:28:57.819 --> 00:29:02.160 the brain in an immature state, but also it has 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:06.579 a disruptive effect on this normal sequence of 00:29:06.579 --> 00:29:08.920 the right brain taking the lead in development 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.200 in the first three years and keeping the left 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.279 brain down and then allowing the left brain to 00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:17.099 come up and keep the right brain down forming 00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:20.880 the foundation of the brain asymmetry and it 00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:25.259 leads to these it alters that sequence and in 00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:28.400 autism what happens is that when the reflexes 00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:32.500 don't go away it keeps both sides of the brain 00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:37.039 down And so the right brain loses its advantage. 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:39.819 And in kids that are unusually gifted in their 00:29:39.819 --> 00:29:43.460 left brain, the left brain comes online too early. 00:29:44.019 --> 00:29:47.740 And now it pushes the right brain down and now 00:29:47.740 --> 00:29:51.500 develop this developmental imbalance. And that 00:29:51.500 --> 00:29:55.079 is when people regress in autism, when they lose 00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.700 these skills that they're developing. That's 00:29:57.700 --> 00:30:00.839 what's happening. And then what we see of these 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.759 early left brain skills come online, like being 00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:08.819 able to read or stimming or ticks or hyperactivity 00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:13.839 or tantrums or chronic inflammation or eczema. 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:17.039 All of that is because of the left brain coming 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:21.039 up and the right brain going down. And once that's 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.440 established, it doesn't self correct. And so 00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:28.059 this disrupts the normal flow of communication. 00:30:28.539 --> 00:30:32.319 So it all comes down to maturity and the brain 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.960 stays in an immature state and the asymmetry 00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:39.500 of the reflexes reflects this asymmetry of this 00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:44.380 maturity imbalance. And all of the phenotypical 00:30:44.380 --> 00:30:47.960 differences and behaviors, gifts and weaknesses 00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.670 all lie in that imbalance. And there are different 00:30:51.670 --> 00:30:53.670 networks that are involved. So it's not always 00:30:53.670 --> 00:30:57.369 just the same networks, but there are different 00:30:57.369 --> 00:31:00.170 networks that are involved. And depending on 00:31:00.170 --> 00:31:03.849 what networks are involved more is where we see 00:31:03.849 --> 00:31:07.569 more of the different spectrum of autism lying 00:31:07.569 --> 00:31:10.670 in there. That's why there's different presentations 00:31:10.670 --> 00:31:15.460 of the same root problem. And ultimately, even 00:31:15.460 --> 00:31:19.000 at a lower level with maturity, what we've been 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.819 able to show is that when the brain matures, 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.240 not only is there this sequential difference, 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:29.119 but also initially the brain connects with what 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:33.279 we call short range connectivity, local connectivity. 00:31:33.740 --> 00:31:37.000 And this is where we form hubs and networks. 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.039 And this is where we form the foundation of the 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.920 network. And these small connections are local, 00:31:45.380 --> 00:31:50.119 but they're very powerful. After we develop these 00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:53.400 networks and we segregate the brain into these 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:58.960 localized networks and areas, then we need to 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.720 lose some of those local connections and replace 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.200 them with long -range connections. So that we 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:11.339 can now start integrating the networks and integrating 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.019 the hemispheres so that we can work in a very 00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:18.880 smooth and efficient and fast way. The analogy 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:22.160 I use it is, you know, I live on Long Island. 00:32:22.579 --> 00:32:26.119 If I in the town I live here, I have a lot of 00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:28.640 these short little roads that connect different 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.700 parts of my town, right? And if I want to drive 00:32:31.700 --> 00:32:34.059 from one part of my town to the other, I use 00:32:34.059 --> 00:32:37.039 those little short roads and it's very fast. 00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:41.059 But if I want to go to another area of Long Island, 00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:44.339 and I use the back roads of every little town, 00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:48.279 it's going to take forever. So I jump on a highway 00:32:48.279 --> 00:32:53.000 that connects me on a long range fast and it 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:55.119 improves the efficiency and the connectivity 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:58.240 and the way they decide how that works is through 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.160 what we call graph theory, right? That's how 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:03.519 we figure out those efficiencies. So what we 00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:06.359 know in the autistic brain and in most developmental 00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.539 issues, and we've proven this, is that there 00:33:10.539 --> 00:33:15.799 is a deficit of long range connections and they 00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:19.019 have too many short range connections, which 00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:21.980 means that, and why is that? Because their brain 00:33:21.980 --> 00:33:27.299 is immature. As the brain matures, we lose and 00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:31.160 the brainwaves get faster and less powerful. 00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:34.359 So what we've also proven is that in autistic 00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:37.420 brains, the brains, the brainwaves are slower. 00:33:37.869 --> 00:33:41.609 Which is what you see in small children right 00:33:41.609 --> 00:33:45.150 smaller children younger brains have more Delta 00:33:45.150 --> 00:33:49.089 and Theta and You know more mature brains have 00:33:49.089 --> 00:33:52.190 more alpha and beta and gamma. We've shown that 00:33:52.190 --> 00:33:57.529 in all ages that The autistic brain is more Delta 00:33:57.529 --> 00:34:01.049 and Theta based Especially on the right side 00:34:01.049 --> 00:34:04.369 of the brain why because it's immature not because 00:34:04.369 --> 00:34:08.480 it's damaged and because they and so these These 00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:13.579 short range connections are very, you know, they 00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:17.119 have slower brain waves, but they're very powerful. 00:34:17.260 --> 00:34:20.219 They have a lot of electric power. So this is 00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:23.639 where we see that there's hyper connectivity, 00:34:24.219 --> 00:34:27.960 especially in the left side of the brain. And 00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.920 there's hypo connectivity of the long range connections 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:34.820 and especially between the two hemispheres of 00:34:34.820 --> 00:34:38.360 the brain. So this is This is what's happening. 00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:41.760 And it's been shown that, you know, that ratio 00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:45.380 of short range to long range, when you go from 00:34:45.380 --> 00:34:48.760 a small brain like a mouse to a human brain that's 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:52.480 very large, that ratio has a logarithmic scale 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.440 to it. That's really miraculous. It's unbelievable, 00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:59.900 actually. And but there's a very specific ratio 00:34:59.900 --> 00:35:03.840 of long range to short range connections at every 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:08.519 size of the evolutionary brain. And in the human 00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:13.940 brain, the ratio is very specific for the optimal 00:35:13.940 --> 00:35:17.360 brain function. And it's been shown that just 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:21.599 a little deviation of that, a five or 10 % deviation 00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:26.440 on long range to short range can be the difference 00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:29.780 between someone functioning at the highest level 00:35:29.780 --> 00:35:33.500 we can imagine to someone functioning at a lower 00:35:33.500 --> 00:35:36.619 level. But if you look at the brain, There's 00:35:36.619 --> 00:35:41.199 the exact same amount of connections, and there 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:45.260 isn't any damage, and you won't see anything 00:35:45.260 --> 00:35:49.480 in the brain. The only thing you would be able 00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:51.960 to, if you can functionally measure the ratio 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.519 of the short range to long range connections, 00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:57.960 that's the only way it becomes apparent. And 00:35:57.960 --> 00:35:59.860 we've been able to show that that's exactly, 00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:02.659 and other people have shown this as well, that 00:36:02.659 --> 00:36:04.940 that's exactly one of the foundational issues 00:36:04.940 --> 00:36:07.570 in autism. And it all comes back to immaturity 00:36:07.570 --> 00:36:14.170 of the brain. Okay, so like these short localized 00:36:14.170 --> 00:36:17.190 hubs or connections, I should say, stay there 00:36:17.190 --> 00:36:23.150 because the brain prefers to send signals to 00:36:23.150 --> 00:36:26.610 activate what it knows because these connections 00:36:26.610 --> 00:36:29.630 are growing in size, I'm assuming, and staying 00:36:29.630 --> 00:36:34.179 localized. So if that's the preference, of the 00:36:34.179 --> 00:36:36.099 brain, then that's what's going to keep us there. 00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:40.539 And it's very much aligned with that early development 00:36:40.539 --> 00:36:45.579 timeframe. Like they're just stuck. OK, I follow. 00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:50.440 That's very nice. Because we get stuck in our 00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:53.679 movement, right, we get stuck because these reflexes 00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:58.539 aren't going away. And that holds our so we stay 00:36:58.539 --> 00:37:02.349 in a more immature state. And so our brain is 00:37:02.349 --> 00:37:04.349 immature and that's what we've been able to show. 00:37:04.469 --> 00:37:07.090 The autistic brain is a more immature looking 00:37:07.090 --> 00:37:10.110 brain. That's the only difference really. But 00:37:10.110 --> 00:37:13.409 the features of that is really that as part of 00:37:13.409 --> 00:37:17.010 the immaturity, we see that it's not necessarily 00:37:17.010 --> 00:37:20.289 size because an immature brain can actually be 00:37:20.289 --> 00:37:24.710 a bigger brain. We actually lose cells as the 00:37:24.710 --> 00:37:28.579 brain matures and it becomes efficient. But it's 00:37:28.579 --> 00:37:32.840 a less efficient brain, but long range efficiency, 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:36.619 short range efficiency. It's more efficient and 00:37:36.619 --> 00:37:40.219 more powerful, which is underlies a lot of the 00:37:40.219 --> 00:37:45.239 savant level skill that's there. But it also 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.780 disrupts this normal sequence of right and left 00:37:47.780 --> 00:37:52.920 development. And so we get this. Favouring left 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:56.860 brain side and not right brain and so that also 00:37:56.860 --> 00:38:01.079 disrupts that long range connectivity. And this 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:03.760 is what leads to the different and depending 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:06.800 on what networks exactly are different what are 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.800 what are overactive what are under active really 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:13.119 leads to the various variety of symptoms that 00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:15.940 we see not only in the autism community but in 00:38:15.940 --> 00:38:19.989 the entire neurodivergent world. Yeah, those 00:38:19.989 --> 00:38:23.150 are all just downstream and then we can how they 00:38:23.150 --> 00:38:26.449 manifest is we can label a phenotype on those 00:38:26.449 --> 00:38:32.230 Exactly. Okay. So with with these Problems with 00:38:32.230 --> 00:38:34.190 these distal connections especially for like 00:38:34.190 --> 00:38:38.829 the prefrontal cortex. That's very distal From 00:38:38.829 --> 00:38:41.690 those sensory processing areas like the brain 00:38:41.690 --> 00:38:44.090 stem and the thalamus the thalamus is deep inside 00:38:44.090 --> 00:38:48.369 the brain So how do you kind of? provide intervention 00:38:48.369 --> 00:38:51.570 to strengthen that myelination. Is there anything 00:38:51.570 --> 00:38:56.050 that sends out? Absolutely. It starts with the 00:38:56.050 --> 00:38:58.409 bottom up. That's the thing. A lot of people 00:38:58.409 --> 00:39:01.170 go right to the top, to the top down, right? 00:39:01.210 --> 00:39:04.210 Where to get there first. Right. So the foundation 00:39:04.210 --> 00:39:07.809 never was built appropriately. And so you need 00:39:07.809 --> 00:39:10.690 to go back to the beginning. That's why understanding 00:39:10.690 --> 00:39:14.489 the root cause. So what is blocking the maturity 00:39:14.489 --> 00:39:17.210 and the development of the brain? It's these 00:39:17.210 --> 00:39:21.070 reflexes that never went away and preventing 00:39:21.070 --> 00:39:26.210 really more complex purposeful movement. And 00:39:26.210 --> 00:39:29.190 it's this imbalance. Those two things are at 00:39:29.190 --> 00:39:33.090 the root. So we need to remove what the blockage 00:39:33.090 --> 00:39:36.570 is. So the first thing we do is work on remediating 00:39:36.570 --> 00:39:39.670 these reflexes. And there's a series of physical 00:39:39.670 --> 00:39:44.349 activity and stimulations. not exercises, because 00:39:44.349 --> 00:39:46.590 many of these kids, because their right brain 00:39:46.590 --> 00:39:49.550 is so division, they can't move their body on 00:39:49.550 --> 00:39:53.150 their own to try to make them do exercises is 00:39:53.150 --> 00:39:55.630 not going to work. So we have to do it to them. 00:39:55.809 --> 00:39:59.550 And we stimulate the reflexes to get them to 00:39:59.550 --> 00:40:03.150 become integrated and eventually then lead them 00:40:03.150 --> 00:40:06.750 into being able to having more complex, purposeful, 00:40:06.769 --> 00:40:10.789 coordinated movement. We also want to stimulate 00:40:10.789 --> 00:40:15.070 their senses in a way to activate the right brain 00:40:15.070 --> 00:40:19.469 and inhibit the left brain and promote that crosstalk. 00:40:20.949 --> 00:40:25.550 And then we want to then do things cognitively 00:40:25.550 --> 00:40:30.309 to them to activate the right brain and inhibit 00:40:30.309 --> 00:40:33.889 that left. We do things like, you know, electrical 00:40:33.889 --> 00:40:36.750 devices like transcranial, which can literally 00:40:36.750 --> 00:40:42.070 do that, or lasers or magnets. But we have to 00:40:42.070 --> 00:40:44.630 start with the bottom up. If you're just doing 00:40:44.630 --> 00:40:49.429 that and you're not working on the foundational 00:40:49.429 --> 00:40:52.250 root problem with the reflexes and with movement 00:40:52.250 --> 00:40:55.130 and with sensory stimulation and processing and 00:40:55.130 --> 00:40:58.869 balancing, that's not going to stick. And you've 00:40:58.869 --> 00:41:01.050 actually said that, you know, it just doesn't 00:41:01.050 --> 00:41:04.710 stick. And also you need to understand the nature 00:41:04.710 --> 00:41:07.369 of the imbalance. Like a lot of people that do 00:41:07.369 --> 00:41:11.730 brain stimulation therapies, They automatically 00:41:11.730 --> 00:41:14.989 assume that a child with autism or an adult that 00:41:14.989 --> 00:41:19.670 can't speak has a left brain language deficit. 00:41:20.070 --> 00:41:23.849 They don't and they stimulate the left brain 00:41:23.849 --> 00:41:27.650 which is already overactive and they make it 00:41:27.650 --> 00:41:30.869 worse. Whereas you need to stimulate the right 00:41:30.869 --> 00:41:33.190 brain and literally inhibit the other side of 00:41:33.190 --> 00:41:36.800 the brain. So, you know, that's why understanding 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:40.039 the nature of the problem is so critical. And 00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:43.960 that same area, which called Broca's area, or 00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:47.159 Broadman area 44 and 45 on the left, which is 00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:50.599 where we have expressive verbal language. Right 00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:54.260 near that is the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex 00:41:54.260 --> 00:41:58.820 and orbital, which causes OCD. And right behind 00:41:58.820 --> 00:42:02.260 that is Broadman area six, the premotor area. 00:42:02.539 --> 00:42:06.079 On the left, which is what causes ticks and stimming 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:09.800 and repetitive behavior. So if you go there and 00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:13.699 you stimulate it. You're not only not going to 00:42:13.699 --> 00:42:16.360 correct the language problem, but you're probably 00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:19.800 going to make the OCD and the ticks worse. So 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:23.500 this is where taking this knowledge of neuroscience 00:42:23.500 --> 00:42:27.599 and functional neuroscience at the highest level 00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:31.170 and turning into a treatment. that's actually 00:42:31.170 --> 00:42:35.530 going to address the issue is really what my, 00:42:35.530 --> 00:42:37.730 you know, what my whole career has been about. 00:42:37.730 --> 00:42:40.630 And that's the whole basis of the Malila method. 00:42:41.030 --> 00:42:43.610 Okay. Do you mind walking us through that as 00:42:43.610 --> 00:42:47.050 much details you want to give? Yeah, sure. Well, 00:42:47.050 --> 00:42:50.210 like I said, you know, it starts off with a proper 00:42:50.210 --> 00:42:53.750 evaluation. The thing is like seeing if reflexes 00:42:53.750 --> 00:42:57.030 are retained, you know, there's not a lot of 00:42:57.030 --> 00:42:59.349 people that are trained properly to do that. 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.300 I've worked, you know, I've trained over 10 ,000 00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:04.780 health professionals around the world. But, you 00:43:04.780 --> 00:43:08.519 know, being able to most effectively check for 00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.179 these reflexes, it requires a really good physical 00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:16.739 exam. So you can't do it virtually. So that's 00:43:16.739 --> 00:43:19.340 one of the challenges. But, you know, we look 00:43:19.340 --> 00:43:23.320 and do a really good exam and do functional measurements 00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:26.440 to put everything on a functional developmental 00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:30.829 scale, because any sort of approach, intervention 00:43:30.829 --> 00:43:35.110 approach needs to be goal -directed and it needs 00:43:35.110 --> 00:43:38.789 to be objectively measurable, right? A lot of 00:43:38.789 --> 00:43:40.889 the treatments that are out there are just trying 00:43:40.889 --> 00:43:43.769 to manage symptoms and they're a hope and a prayer. 00:43:44.110 --> 00:43:47.550 Let's try this and see if it changes anything. 00:43:48.090 --> 00:43:49.989 What do we mean change? Well, let's see if their 00:43:49.989 --> 00:43:53.489 symptoms are less. Okay. Well, why are there 00:43:53.489 --> 00:43:56.969 symptoms there? What is the issue to begin with? 00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:01.260 And whereas our approach is about looking at 00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:04.300 the whole person, looking at the whole integrated 00:44:04.300 --> 00:44:08.659 system, we do a really good neurodevelopmental 00:44:08.659 --> 00:44:11.900 exam. We do all different types of other measurements, 00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:15.199 cognitively, sentry -wise, sentry processing. 00:44:15.710 --> 00:44:19.650 We'll do brain mapping. We do lab work that looks 00:44:19.650 --> 00:44:23.050 at immune markers and inflammatory markers and 00:44:23.050 --> 00:44:26.750 things like food sensitivities. We look at the 00:44:26.750 --> 00:44:31.010 whole individual person and then we individualize 00:44:31.010 --> 00:44:34.809 a program to really kind of address the issues 00:44:34.809 --> 00:44:38.829 at the root cause and correct and balance targeting 00:44:38.829 --> 00:44:42.750 the specific networks in that individual and 00:44:42.750 --> 00:44:46.949 targeting their specific needs. You know, people 00:44:46.949 --> 00:44:49.369 are often told that the problem starts in the 00:44:49.369 --> 00:44:52.650 gut. It doesn't. It starts in the brain stem 00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:56.750 and the brain with the balance of the sympathetic 00:44:56.750 --> 00:45:00.429 and parasympathetic nervous system, which is 00:45:00.429 --> 00:45:06.010 what regulates gut development. And because the 00:45:06.010 --> 00:45:09.190 brain doesn't develop the way it should, the 00:45:09.190 --> 00:45:12.769 parasympathetic nervous system in many of these 00:45:12.769 --> 00:45:16.760 kids and adults doesn't come online. So they 00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:19.940 stay in this fight or flight state and their 00:45:19.940 --> 00:45:23.320 gut stays open and leaky. You know, we start 00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:27.000 out life with a leaky gut. That's the way we're 00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:31.539 born. It's supposed to be that way because babies 00:45:31.539 --> 00:45:35.420 don't form antibodies when they're first born. 00:45:35.500 --> 00:45:38.699 So they need, you know, about six months to a 00:45:38.699 --> 00:45:41.300 year before they start developing their own antibodies. 00:45:41.769 --> 00:45:44.050 and they need antibodies and they get it through 00:45:44.050 --> 00:45:47.710 the mom's breast milk. But antibodies are big, 00:45:48.269 --> 00:45:51.409 large proteins that wouldn't get through a normal 00:45:51.409 --> 00:45:55.449 stomach lining. So the gut needs to be more porous 00:45:55.449 --> 00:45:58.230 and open and leaky to allow these large proteins 00:45:58.230 --> 00:46:02.190 through. Then we also can't produce a lot of 00:46:02.190 --> 00:46:05.510 acid and enzymes during that time because those 00:46:05.510 --> 00:46:08.409 acids would kill those antibodies in the gut. 00:46:09.269 --> 00:46:12.780 So The sympathetic nervous system, when it's 00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:18.320 on, makes our heart rate really fast and also 00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:23.880 keeps our gut shut down. But as the brain matures 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:27.860 and as the brain stem matures, as the reflexes 00:46:27.860 --> 00:46:32.659 go away, the parasympathetic nuclei come on and 00:46:32.659 --> 00:46:35.440 that starts to shut down the sympathetic fight 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:39.260 or flight. The heart rate drops. The gut closes 00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:42.599 up. We produce acid and enzymes that promotes 00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:45.340 the proper environment for good bacteria and 00:46:45.340 --> 00:46:48.460 kills all the bad things and the bad bugs like 00:46:48.460 --> 00:46:52.199 parasites or fungus or mold that shouldn't be 00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:55.500 able to live in our body and now increases blood 00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.199 flow so we can absorb nutrients and vitamins 00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:01.300 and minerals to help our brain and body grow 00:47:01.300 --> 00:47:04.340 more. But what we know and what we've also proven 00:47:04.340 --> 00:47:07.840 is on the autism spectrum and in most developmental 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:11.119 issues, that parasympathetic nervous system never 00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:14.400 fully comes on and they stay in this fight or 00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.719 flight. And so they do have a leaky gut. They 00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:22.059 do have inflammation and they do have food sensitivities 00:47:22.059 --> 00:47:24.539 and they have vitamin and mineral deficiencies 00:47:24.539 --> 00:47:28.199 and, you know, folic deficiencies. But that's 00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.239 not the root cause. It doesn't mean that we don't 00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:35.019 need to address those things. We do. But the 00:47:35.019 --> 00:47:39.119 ultimate solution is to get the brain and get 00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:41.599 the sympathetic and parasympathetic and right 00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:44.940 and left because they control sympathetic and 00:47:44.940 --> 00:47:47.900 parasympathetic differently. The right brain 00:47:47.900 --> 00:47:50.719 activates the sympathetic, the parasympathetic 00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:53.579 and the anti -inflammatory part of the immune 00:47:53.579 --> 00:47:56.659 system. The left brain activates the sympathetic 00:47:56.659 --> 00:48:00.590 and inflammatory part. So these kids are in an 00:48:00.590 --> 00:48:03.309 inflamed state. But again, it really all comes 00:48:03.309 --> 00:48:05.630 down to the brain and the nervous system. But 00:48:05.630 --> 00:48:09.630 most people in the biomedical world have no idea 00:48:09.630 --> 00:48:11.929 of the neuroscience. They know nothing about 00:48:11.929 --> 00:48:15.329 it. So, you know, they just know there's inflammation 00:48:15.329 --> 00:48:18.329 and there's a leaky gut and there's vitamin and 00:48:18.329 --> 00:48:20.429 mineral deficiencies and they have these bugs 00:48:20.429 --> 00:48:23.610 in their gut. And so that's causing autism. No, 00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:28.739 that's not the way it works. Yeah, okay. I just 00:48:28.739 --> 00:48:32.800 want to check my understanding here, and I'm 00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:34.860 kind of adding something into it, just wanting 00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:38.599 to check those. Does the role of the excitation 00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:44.119 inhibition imbalance play a role? And the reticular 00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:47.179 formation of like through the brain stem and 00:48:47.179 --> 00:48:49.559 so forth? Yeah, it's a little bit more complex 00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:53.639 than just the reticular activating system. The 00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:56.659 reticular activating system actually activates 00:48:56.659 --> 00:49:00.260 the brain more through the thalamus, through 00:49:00.260 --> 00:49:04.539 what we call the intralaminar nuclei in the thalamus, 00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.659 which is what these are non -specific nuclei 00:49:07.659 --> 00:49:11.780 that activate the brain and generate most of 00:49:11.780 --> 00:49:14.179 the foundational brain waves, but especially 00:49:14.179 --> 00:49:18.280 the gamma waves. And gamma waves is the ultimate 00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:22.380 signal. When we're at our highest cognitive functional 00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:27.280 level, the linking signal that really links things 00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:30.940 together fast is the gamma rhythm between 40 00:49:30.940 --> 00:49:35.139 to 60 Hertz. And that is all generated through 00:49:35.139 --> 00:49:38.659 that. So the reticular activating system goes 00:49:38.659 --> 00:49:41.960 into the intralaminar nuclei in the thalamus 00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:45.199 and then up to the brain and the toothed thalami 00:49:45.389 --> 00:49:49.210 are like oscillators they're constantly they 00:49:49.210 --> 00:49:53.150 create the pulsation that the brain is pulsating 00:49:53.150 --> 00:49:57.210 at and they're completely independent so the 00:49:57.210 --> 00:50:01.070 right and the left are different and that's where 00:50:01.070 --> 00:50:04.289 part of the desynchronization or dysrhythmia 00:50:04.289 --> 00:50:07.010 comes from because ultimately what we're talking 00:50:07.010 --> 00:50:11.530 about in functional connectivity is a problem 00:50:11.530 --> 00:50:16.320 with this with desynchronization Or dysrhythmia, 00:50:16.699 --> 00:50:20.599 where the synchronized signals, the timing is 00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:24.639 off. You have one side of the brain oscillating 00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.420 at a much faster rate than the other, and they 00:50:27.420 --> 00:50:29.980 can't communicate. It's like, you know, having 00:50:29.980 --> 00:50:32.719 an old computer try to talk to a new computer, 00:50:33.340 --> 00:50:36.320 because there's nothing wrong with either one 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.920 of them, but they're different processing speeds. 00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:43.699 They can't communicate. because of the processing 00:50:43.699 --> 00:50:49.159 difference. And so that's part of it. And, you 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:52.699 know, so what we see is that, you know, trying 00:50:52.699 --> 00:50:56.179 to change the speed of that processing and the 00:50:56.179 --> 00:50:59.739 maturity, the brain becomes faster as we mature. 00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:03.519 And a lot of those signals originate in the body 00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:05.900 and in the muscles, and especially in the muscles 00:51:05.900 --> 00:51:10.460 along the spine. Okay. All right. That's a great 00:51:10.460 --> 00:51:14.889 perspective there. with the root of the GI problem. 00:51:15.590 --> 00:51:18.349 Well, the GI problem really, yeah, is there. 00:51:18.949 --> 00:51:22.070 So, you know, when we approach the Malila method, 00:51:22.389 --> 00:51:24.590 again, we're looking at it all, right? We're 00:51:24.590 --> 00:51:27.409 not just looking at the brain. We recognize that 00:51:27.409 --> 00:51:30.010 we have to look at the whole body, but we're 00:51:30.010 --> 00:51:32.030 also looking at it, what is the foundational 00:51:32.030 --> 00:51:35.530 issue that we need to address and doing that 00:51:35.530 --> 00:51:38.610 in a measurable way. And so looking at the gut 00:51:38.610 --> 00:51:41.510 and the immune system is all important. But if 00:51:41.510 --> 00:51:44.329 that's all you're doing, you're not really dealing 00:51:44.329 --> 00:51:47.710 with the root cause. And so it's about looking 00:51:47.710 --> 00:51:51.409 at motor system and sentry and sentry processing 00:51:51.409 --> 00:51:55.550 and the immune system and the balance within 00:51:55.550 --> 00:51:58.289 the immune system of what we call the TH1 and 00:51:58.289 --> 00:52:01.489 TH2 systems and the antibodies versus the white 00:52:01.489 --> 00:52:05.750 blood cells. And then looking at the gut. and 00:52:05.750 --> 00:52:08.789 the detoxification system and the vitamin and 00:52:08.789 --> 00:52:12.809 the minerals and enzymes and all of that. But 00:52:12.809 --> 00:52:16.010 the reason why there's the root issue really 00:52:16.010 --> 00:52:18.309 comes down to looking at the brain and the brain 00:52:18.309 --> 00:52:21.469 stem and this maturity and this development of 00:52:21.469 --> 00:52:24.269 this functional connectivity and this synchronization 00:52:24.269 --> 00:52:30.349 of the brain. Okay. How long have you had this 00:52:30.349 --> 00:52:35.519 malevolent method kind of available? Well, I 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.760 mean, I started working with this and started 00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:41.539 really researching this. You know, I started 00:52:41.539 --> 00:52:45.260 working, as I said, in the neurology and development 00:52:45.260 --> 00:52:52.219 work and teaching clinical neurology back in 00:52:52.219 --> 00:52:57.579 the mid 80s, late 80s. I started really functioning 00:52:57.579 --> 00:53:02.050 on understanding what's happening in the brain 00:53:02.050 --> 00:53:06.050 development and learning and mental health area 00:53:06.050 --> 00:53:10.050 in the early 90s and started developing a program 00:53:10.050 --> 00:53:15.449 of how to change it around 1995. And so I've 00:53:15.449 --> 00:53:20.329 been working with it since then, evolving it, 00:53:20.329 --> 00:53:23.530 evolving it, evolving it. I created a program 00:53:23.530 --> 00:53:25.949 called the Brain Balance Program, which is a 00:53:25.949 --> 00:53:30.010 more kind of non -medical type of approach. And 00:53:30.010 --> 00:53:32.929 I started a company called Brain Balance Achievement 00:53:32.929 --> 00:53:36.789 Centers. And, you know, we developed over 100 00:53:36.789 --> 00:53:40.329 centers across the country that is still in existence 00:53:40.329 --> 00:53:45.510 today. But that was more with milder, you know, 00:53:45.610 --> 00:53:50.190 kind of higher functioning issues that were a 00:53:50.190 --> 00:53:55.449 little less challenging. And then, but I really 00:53:55.449 --> 00:53:58.769 wanted to understand and work with. the most 00:53:58.769 --> 00:54:01.730 challenging, especially non speaking autism. 00:54:02.329 --> 00:54:05.369 Um, and I wanted to work with all ages, including 00:54:05.369 --> 00:54:09.409 adults. And so my research went on, my education 00:54:09.409 --> 00:54:13.489 went on, my experience got more and more. I continue 00:54:13.489 --> 00:54:16.489 to teach and write. I've written eight bestselling 00:54:16.489 --> 00:54:20.610 books on the topic. Um, and ultimately the Malila 00:54:20.610 --> 00:54:24.010 method evolved out of that as a, as more of a 00:54:24.010 --> 00:54:30.400 much more complex version. of that that really 00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:34.000 could address any age and any level of challenge. 00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:38.400 And that has been really evolving and being utilized 00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:42.320 over the past 10 years in my centers here in 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:46.260 New York. And now we're actually starting to 00:54:46.260 --> 00:54:49.039 expand that around the world. We're going to 00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:52.579 be starting centers in different countries very 00:54:52.579 --> 00:54:55.679 shortly because we want to bring this technology 00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:59.380 out wherever people need to be. So right now 00:54:59.380 --> 00:55:02.780 we're going to be developing a center in Columbia, 00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:07.460 Sydney, Australia, we have one now, and Mexico 00:55:07.460 --> 00:55:13.159 City very shortly, and then from there. It's 00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:17.079 a great success and obviously a very important 00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:20.019 topic. Can you say a little bit before we wrap 00:55:20.019 --> 00:55:23.820 up about the nonverbal speaker? Because I just 00:55:23.820 --> 00:55:27.070 appreciate so much about how You were talking 00:55:27.070 --> 00:55:30.090 about how their intelligence is in there and 00:55:30.090 --> 00:55:33.610 so forth about some of the malevolent method. 00:55:33.690 --> 00:55:36.010 I know it's very individualized, but some of 00:55:36.010 --> 00:55:39.989 the more common things that you do with the nonverbal. 00:55:40.590 --> 00:55:44.329 Yeah. So to me that, you know, was the most fascinating. 00:55:44.929 --> 00:55:48.530 And what really opened the door to me on understanding 00:55:48.530 --> 00:55:51.710 this was when I started working with a woman 00:55:51.710 --> 00:55:57.389 who does spelling. Um, and you know, she had, 00:55:57.630 --> 00:56:00.829 she has a child that I had worked with and for 00:56:00.829 --> 00:56:03.550 20 years she was working on spelling with him 00:56:03.550 --> 00:56:07.369 and, um, you know, open the world. And honestly, 00:56:07.369 --> 00:56:11.269 I'd been exposed to it, uh, years before. And 00:56:11.269 --> 00:56:14.190 like many parents, I looked at it and because 00:56:14.190 --> 00:56:17.909 my understanding of the problem and the root 00:56:17.909 --> 00:56:21.849 cause wasn't sophisticated enough. I looked at 00:56:21.849 --> 00:56:24.269 it and I thought, Oh, that's. That's BS, you 00:56:24.269 --> 00:56:26.510 know, that kid doesn't know that. How would they 00:56:26.510 --> 00:56:29.710 know that? You know, they can't, they don't know 00:56:29.710 --> 00:56:32.809 anything. So how could they have the spelling 00:56:32.809 --> 00:56:36.690 these complex sentences? And it looks like somebody's 00:56:36.690 --> 00:56:39.710 guiding their hand. Um, and I thought, okay, 00:56:39.730 --> 00:56:43.130 that's not real. And then I, as I understood, 00:56:43.170 --> 00:56:46.050 and as my search for really understanding why 00:56:46.050 --> 00:56:49.969 they can't speak evolved and, and really, you 00:56:49.969 --> 00:56:54.570 know, we. We published a paper on that. I understood 00:56:54.570 --> 00:56:58.469 that the root cause is that is that they don't 00:56:58.469 --> 00:57:00.409 know where their body is. They're not building 00:57:00.409 --> 00:57:02.989 these sentry motor maps in the right side of 00:57:02.989 --> 00:57:06.230 their brain. And it's not a lack of words. And 00:57:06.230 --> 00:57:08.809 it's not a lack of speech on the left side of 00:57:08.809 --> 00:57:13.030 the brain. And then I met somebody who explained 00:57:13.030 --> 00:57:16.969 it to me in neuroscience terms that, you know, 00:57:16.969 --> 00:57:20.150 we're not guiding their hand when we touch them. 00:57:20.219 --> 00:57:23.940 Now they know where their hand is and they can 00:57:23.940 --> 00:57:28.320 spell because the words are there. And that really 00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:31.719 resonated with me because I went, wow, OK, that's 00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:39.059 exactly where my model is going. And that made 00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:42.559 sense to me because now you're not guiding them 00:57:42.559 --> 00:57:46.489 or even you're actually resisting them. And that 00:57:46.489 --> 00:57:49.409 feedback allows them for the first time to know 00:57:49.409 --> 00:57:52.710 where their own hand is. And now they can spell. 00:57:52.869 --> 00:57:55.630 But the words and everything are already there 00:57:55.630 --> 00:58:00.929 because they're so brilliant. And so now with, 00:58:00.929 --> 00:58:03.670 you know, we work with, you know, hundreds and 00:58:03.670 --> 00:58:07.230 hundreds of kids like this. And I ask them questions 00:58:07.230 --> 00:58:10.090 like I love asking them questions like the first 00:58:10.090 --> 00:58:13.389 question I ask them is why can't you speak? And 00:58:13.389 --> 00:58:15.889 they'll tell you. if you ask them, but nobody, 00:58:16.090 --> 00:58:18.210 even the parents don't ask them that question. 00:58:18.829 --> 00:58:20.530 Even people that are spelling, I say, have you 00:58:20.530 --> 00:58:23.670 ever asked them? And they tell me the same thing. 00:58:24.090 --> 00:58:27.849 I don't feel my body. I can't move my body. One 00:58:27.849 --> 00:58:30.750 kid described it perfectly. I mean, you know 00:58:30.750 --> 00:58:32.869 neuroscience, so you know we developed something 00:58:32.869 --> 00:58:35.269 called a humunculus. Yeah, I was going to ask 00:58:35.269 --> 00:58:38.530 you about that. Right. So as we're developing 00:58:38.530 --> 00:58:41.849 in the right brain in the parietal lobe, we develop 00:58:42.190 --> 00:58:47.230 what's called a sentry homunculus, which is a 00:58:47.230 --> 00:58:52.309 distorted 3D map of the body. And in the right 00:58:52.309 --> 00:58:54.710 brain, we have a whole body because we become 00:58:54.710 --> 00:58:57.570 a whole person through the development of what 00:58:57.570 --> 00:59:01.909 we call interoception and proprioception. And 00:59:01.909 --> 00:59:05.650 then once we develop a sentry map in the parietal 00:59:05.650 --> 00:59:09.230 lobe, we then develop a motor map in the frontal 00:59:09.230 --> 00:59:12.500 lobe of how to move that part of our body. And 00:59:12.500 --> 00:59:15.679 the biggest part of the map by far, like one 00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:17.780 third of the whole map is the face, the mouth, 00:59:17.940 --> 00:59:20.960 the tongue and the lips. And then the next third 00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:23.739 is the arm in the hand and the finger for fine 00:59:23.739 --> 00:59:28.000 motor and pointing. And so the hardest thing 00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:31.780 they have and they tell us these kids started 00:59:31.780 --> 00:59:34.739 telling me I don't feel my tongue in my mouth. 00:59:34.739 --> 00:59:37.960 I don't feel my face. I don't feel my body. I 00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:40.199 don't know where my body is. I don't realize 00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:43.570 I have a body. I don't know where my hand is. 00:59:44.050 --> 00:59:46.469 That's why, you know, you ask them to point to 00:59:46.469 --> 00:59:49.090 something they can't point, or they may point 00:59:49.090 --> 00:59:52.489 to something completely, you know, that they 00:59:52.489 --> 00:59:54.889 know the answer, but they can't point to it. 00:59:54.889 --> 00:59:58.130 They can't write. They can't type. But it's not 00:59:58.130 --> 01:00:00.949 because the words aren't there. Their words are 01:00:00.949 --> 01:00:07.349 beyond other people. And so hearing them tell 01:00:07.349 --> 01:00:12.530 me this by typing, Was it was unbelievable because 01:00:12.530 --> 01:00:15.170 now they were confirming everything that I thought 01:00:15.170 --> 01:00:18.989 and I literally you know I had them look at videos 01:00:18.989 --> 01:00:23.050 that I've created and Said am I right is this 01:00:23.050 --> 01:00:26.449 why you can't speak and they were like absolutely 01:00:26.449 --> 01:00:28.650 You're the only one that has ever said this to 01:00:28.650 --> 01:00:31.849 us that this is actually the reason why and they're 01:00:31.849 --> 01:00:35.340 so brilliant I trust them more than I do most 01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:38.059 other doctors and scientists to give me the right 01:00:38.059 --> 01:00:42.579 answer and to critique my work and you know they 01:00:42.579 --> 01:00:45.619 give me the most fascinating and they literally 01:00:45.619 --> 01:00:48.619 describe they'll say to me there's a battle going 01:00:48.619 --> 01:00:52.039 on between my right and left side and and the 01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:54.380 left brain is too dominant and it won't give 01:00:54.380 --> 01:00:57.320 up control and it won't let that right brain 01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.159 come up And that is exactly what's happening 01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:02.519 in their brain. And this is what this is their 01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:05.760 words, their typing, they're saying this. And 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:11.019 it's really unbelievably amazing. And it's something 01:01:11.019 --> 01:01:14.420 that I continue to want to research and understand 01:01:14.420 --> 01:01:18.420 it. And, you know, and they all say, almost all 01:01:18.420 --> 01:01:23.539 of them will say, please help me speak. Please 01:01:23.539 --> 01:01:26.920 help me stop stimming. You know, they want that 01:01:26.920 --> 01:01:30.159 right? So, you know, that's my goal is to try 01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:32.840 to give them the voice and and and the majority 01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:35.340 of the time we do the majority of the time we 01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:38.679 do give them the ability to speak You know not 01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:44.260 not always fully but you know they're able to 01:01:44.260 --> 01:01:47.679 speak and communicate at a much higher level 01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:50.559 and You know the longer we work with them the 01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:54.599 more that changes. So that's Probably my greatest 01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:57.440 accomplishment is to be able to do that for somebody. 01:01:58.099 --> 01:02:00.099 Yeah, I love that. Because I was going to ask 01:02:00.099 --> 01:02:01.739 you about that as soon as you were talking about 01:02:01.739 --> 01:02:05.659 it. Because somatosensory and then the motor 01:02:05.659 --> 01:02:10.119 cortex right there on top of each other. Exactly. 01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:14.480 And the thalamus. But you won't develop the motor 01:02:14.480 --> 01:02:17.920 map until you develop the sensory map. Yeah. 01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:21.469 Right? Yeah. And one kid said it to me perfectly. 01:02:21.610 --> 01:02:24.530 I said to him, why can't you speak? And he said, 01:02:24.530 --> 01:02:28.869 I don't see my body in my brain. And so therefore 01:02:28.869 --> 01:02:32.449 I can't move my body myself the way I want to. 01:02:32.869 --> 01:02:36.190 They stim, they tick, they move, they look like 01:02:36.190 --> 01:02:38.909 they're doing complex movement, but none of it 01:02:38.909 --> 01:02:43.170 is under their control. It's just automated actions. 01:02:43.630 --> 01:02:45.969 And they don't even want to be doing most of 01:02:45.969 --> 01:02:48.889 the things that they're doing. you know again 01:02:48.889 --> 01:02:51.150 this is what they tell us and if you've read 01:02:51.150 --> 01:02:52.989 books there's a lot of really good books out 01:02:52.989 --> 01:02:56.690 there by non -speaking adults that have you know 01:02:56.690 --> 01:03:00.250 can type and spell and this is how they describe 01:03:00.250 --> 01:03:03.670 it they they this is absolutely and they and 01:03:03.670 --> 01:03:06.829 they tell me all the time you know that this 01:03:06.829 --> 01:03:09.650 is this treatment is helping me and they've helped 01:03:09.650 --> 01:03:14.469 guide me to tell them you know do this this way 01:03:14.469 --> 01:03:18.780 and and help me get better Yeah, I would anticipate 01:03:18.780 --> 01:03:21.039 the indirect pathway of the basal ganglia is 01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:24.539 also involved because the brain stem the substantial 01:03:24.539 --> 01:03:28.000 nigra up to the dorsal striatum and things they 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:30.480 can't shut these motor movements off Well, you 01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:32.619 know one of the things that most people in neuroscience 01:03:32.619 --> 01:03:35.500 and especially clinical don't aren't aware of 01:03:35.500 --> 01:03:38.000 you're exactly right there's a deficiency of 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:41.440 the indirect pathway and There's an overactivity 01:03:41.440 --> 01:03:44.820 of the hybrid of the direct pathway, but the 01:03:44.820 --> 01:03:48.090 indirect deficit is more related to the fact 01:03:48.090 --> 01:03:51.329 that there's a hyper direct pathway. You're familiar 01:03:51.329 --> 01:03:54.590 with that. The hyper direct pathway is only in 01:03:54.590 --> 01:03:57.130 the right side of the brain. I wasn't aware of 01:03:57.130 --> 01:03:59.690 that. And so, yes, it's only in the right side. 01:03:59.750 --> 01:04:02.849 It's in the right sentry motor area, which is 01:04:02.849 --> 01:04:06.309 where ticks and stimming are stopped and hyperactivity. 01:04:06.789 --> 01:04:10.030 And it's in the right inferior frontal gyrus, 01:04:10.309 --> 01:04:14.829 which is what regulates OCD and emotional outbursts. 01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:18.940 Right? So those two hyper direct pathway only 01:04:18.940 --> 01:04:23.539 go to the indirect pathway. And in particular 01:04:23.539 --> 01:04:28.579 to the subsalamic nucleus of Louise. And so when 01:04:28.579 --> 01:04:31.619 you don't have a right brain development, you 01:04:31.619 --> 01:04:35.099 don't develop the hyper direct pathway. You don't 01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:38.159 develop those inhibitory connections in the basal 01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:42.579 ganglia. And you have too much activating excitatory 01:04:42.860 --> 01:04:46.099 and the left brain is more connected to the direct 01:04:46.099 --> 01:04:49.579 pathway and the dopamine pathways and the left 01:04:49.579 --> 01:04:53.360 brain is more dopaminergic and excitatory so 01:04:53.360 --> 01:04:56.480 you talked about the in the excitatory and the 01:04:56.480 --> 01:04:59.539 inhibitory imbalance the right brain is inhibitory 01:04:59.539 --> 01:05:02.739 the left brain is excitatory dopamine is more 01:05:02.739 --> 01:05:07.599 excitatory serotonin is more inhibitory and so 01:05:07.769 --> 01:05:10.710 That is where all of the stimming and the ticks. 01:05:11.289 --> 01:05:15.650 And so there's five primary pathways in the basal 01:05:15.650 --> 01:05:19.190 ganglia, in that balance. And one of them is 01:05:19.190 --> 01:05:23.369 from Brodmann area six, the supplemental premotor 01:05:23.369 --> 01:05:27.650 area in the left brain that goes into the basal 01:05:27.650 --> 01:05:30.550 ganglia. The left brain activates the direct 01:05:30.550 --> 01:05:34.889 pathway and turns on stereotypical movement, 01:05:35.429 --> 01:05:38.599 programmed complex movement. And the right brain 01:05:38.599 --> 01:05:41.440 inhibits that through the hyper direct indirect 01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:44.780 pathway. When you don't have that right side, 01:05:45.300 --> 01:05:48.460 that left brain is unregulated. And that's why 01:05:48.460 --> 01:05:51.500 they have ticks and stimming and same thing with 01:05:51.500 --> 01:05:56.039 OCD. That's where it comes from. Yeah, it's like 01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:58.320 flip the light switch. It's just sitting there 01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:00.980 constant flip the light switch. But it has to 01:06:00.980 --> 01:06:02.840 recruit the basal ganglia to actually do the 01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:07.010 motor movement. I'll flip the light switch. That's 01:06:07.010 --> 01:06:11.650 fantastic Well, she'll tell us how people can 01:06:11.650 --> 01:06:14.130 get a hold of you. Let me ask you something I 01:06:14.130 --> 01:06:16.989 know you like to speak about neuroscience and 01:06:16.989 --> 01:06:19.429 you said you've spoken to neuroscientists on 01:06:19.429 --> 01:06:23.489 this Podcast before and I think it's great. How 01:06:23.489 --> 01:06:26.110 many other neuroscience know this? How many other 01:06:26.110 --> 01:06:29.309 neuroscience know that aspect of what's happening 01:06:29.309 --> 01:06:31.670 in the brain and the basal ganglia as a root 01:06:31.670 --> 01:06:37.170 issue related to autism? No, not enough Not enough 01:06:37.170 --> 01:06:40.750 at all. Really, almost none. Yeah. And that's 01:06:40.750 --> 01:06:43.570 the thing. And most neuroscientists are not clinicians. 01:06:44.269 --> 01:06:46.710 How many clinicians you think understand that? 01:06:47.170 --> 01:06:50.750 No, none. Absolutely none. That's where people 01:06:50.750 --> 01:06:53.409 say to me, how do you know this stuff or how, 01:06:53.409 --> 01:06:55.590 you know, how are you coming up with these unique 01:06:55.590 --> 01:06:58.969 ways? Because you understand, I understand the 01:06:58.969 --> 01:07:02.250 neuroscience and functional neuroscience probably 01:07:02.250 --> 01:07:05.460 as well as anybody in the world. And also, I've 01:07:05.460 --> 01:07:08.659 been a clinician working at this for 35 years 01:07:08.659 --> 01:07:13.420 and combining this together is really the key. 01:07:14.179 --> 01:07:16.719 And, you know, that's my goal is to teach others 01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:20.639 this and put it out there to lead the way. But 01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:23.519 I think you realize this is where health care 01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:28.340 has to go, especially brain health. The integration 01:07:28.340 --> 01:07:31.500 of understanding and that's where a lot of the 01:07:31.500 --> 01:07:35.300 confusion is out there because again There's 01:07:35.300 --> 01:07:39.079 very few to no clinicians that understand the 01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:42.760 neuroscience in a functional complex way and 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:46.099 most neuroscientists Don't understand functional 01:07:46.099 --> 01:07:49.219 neuroscience and don't work with patients So 01:07:49.219 --> 01:07:51.099 they don't understand what this actually looks 01:07:51.099 --> 01:07:53.579 like clinically and what what would I do about 01:07:53.579 --> 01:07:57.309 it? They have no idea Mm -hmm. Yeah Yeah, it's 01:07:57.309 --> 01:08:01.070 lacking bad. And it's the silos. It's a product 01:08:01.070 --> 01:08:08.289 of the silos. And the basal ganglia is really 01:08:08.289 --> 01:08:11.329 central. to have a lot of episodes on the basal 01:08:11.329 --> 01:08:13.409 ganglia because it's very fascinating and well 01:08:13.409 --> 01:08:15.570 just so you know actually know again everything 01:08:15.570 --> 01:08:18.010 i talk about i've published papers and research 01:08:18.010 --> 01:08:21.189 so our paper on the basal ganglia and going through 01:08:21.189 --> 01:08:24.149 exactly what we just described is one of the 01:08:24.149 --> 01:08:27.289 down most downloaded papers in all of neuroscience 01:08:27.289 --> 01:08:31.569 on basal ganglia okay if you if you go it's a 01:08:31.569 --> 01:08:33.750 it's an open access if you look at my name under 01:08:33.750 --> 01:08:37.659 basal ganglia the paper that we go to describe 01:08:37.659 --> 01:08:41.000 this and a lot of other papers, because I go 01:08:41.000 --> 01:08:43.479 into the basal ganglia in most of our papers. 01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:46.060 And like I said, you know, one of my best papers 01:08:46.060 --> 01:08:50.100 really is really describing in detail the neuroscience 01:08:50.100 --> 01:08:53.880 of autism. And so, you know, reading up on the 01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:56.420 basal ganglia, our paper is one of the leading 01:08:56.420 --> 01:08:59.579 papers ever published on the basal ganglia and 01:08:59.579 --> 01:09:02.140 how it relates to these issues. So, you know, 01:09:02.140 --> 01:09:05.069 I'm not just saying this, this something that, 01:09:05.069 --> 01:09:07.810 you know, we published at the highest level. 01:09:08.550 --> 01:09:10.689 Yeah, the baseball game has to be involved. It's 01:09:10.689 --> 01:09:16.550 our goal. Go, no go. And it's not, it's not talked 01:09:16.550 --> 01:09:19.569 about it. No. And people don't understand the 01:09:19.569 --> 01:09:22.289 laterality of it. They don't understand the difference 01:09:22.289 --> 01:09:24.409 and the way that the right brain and the left 01:09:24.409 --> 01:09:27.760 brain interact. with the basal ganglia even though 01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:30.119 it's clearly out there look up the hyper direct 01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:32.840 pathway and you'll understand that it's only 01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:36.479 in the right side of the brain one of those with 01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:39.739 the lack of knowledge on the left and the right 01:09:39.739 --> 01:09:43.140 with this so fantastic i love it because this 01:09:43.140 --> 01:09:46.279 is a lot of neuroscientists are and a lot of 01:09:46.279 --> 01:09:48.579 neuroscience because they use they they really 01:09:48.579 --> 01:09:51.539 look at just the computational neuroscience piece 01:09:51.539 --> 01:09:54.420 and that's the thing You know, when you look 01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:57.060 at these subtle differences between long -range 01:09:57.060 --> 01:10:00.119 and short -range connectivity over the whole 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:05.220 brain, these are subtle little microscopic differences 01:10:05.220 --> 01:10:09.939 that individually don't really add up to much. 01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:16.880 But over the whole brain, it adds a lot behaviorally, 01:10:17.180 --> 01:10:20.420 right? The phenotype that is but when you look 01:10:20.420 --> 01:10:23.760 neuroscience only at the computational part of 01:10:23.760 --> 01:10:27.479 analyzing the connections and everything you 01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:30.220 don't really see the big differences between 01:10:30.220 --> 01:10:33.100 the right and left brain and so a lot of modern 01:10:33.100 --> 01:10:36.720 neuroscientists are more like oh the whole right 01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:39.079 brain left brain thing isn't really a big deal 01:10:39.079 --> 01:10:43.060 where most of You know, a lot of neuroscience 01:10:43.060 --> 01:10:46.399 in the background in the past really documented 01:10:46.399 --> 01:10:49.479 it. But if you really look at it from a behavioral 01:10:49.479 --> 01:10:52.960 perspective, it's the biggest piece. It is what 01:10:52.960 --> 01:10:55.979 makes the human brain most unique. So there's 01:10:55.979 --> 01:10:58.380 a lot of conflict even within the neuroscience 01:10:58.380 --> 01:11:00.960 community. And again, that creates confusion 01:11:00.960 --> 01:11:04.460 out there in the public with people that hear, 01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:06.279 oh, that right brain, left brain thing isn't 01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:09.279 a big deal anymore. No, it's a huge deal and 01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:12.859 it's getting even bigger. in the world that actually 01:11:12.859 --> 01:11:20.399 researches it and understands it. It makes sense, 01:11:20.619 --> 01:11:22.659 you know, if you think about it, there's two, 01:11:22.859 --> 01:11:25.880 there's contralateral for a reason, except for 01:11:25.880 --> 01:11:28.020 the pineal. Everything else is contralateral, 01:11:28.359 --> 01:11:31.520 correct? Exactly. It's an advantage. You should 01:11:31.520 --> 01:11:34.039 definitely read some of Ian McGillchrist's work. 01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:39.619 One book, his first book was called the master 01:11:39.619 --> 01:11:43.079 and his emissary, the development of Western 01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:46.699 civilization, Western civilization and the divided 01:11:46.699 --> 01:11:50.760 brain. And just, you know, his his work in my 01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:54.100 textbook, I think are foundational. But the only 01:11:54.100 --> 01:11:56.859 thing is that, you know, Ian is great and he's 01:11:56.859 --> 01:11:59.500 incredibly, you know, his writing is beautiful, 01:11:59.960 --> 01:12:02.100 but he doesn't have a solution for it. Right. 01:12:02.619 --> 01:12:05.260 I came up with the solution based on it. And 01:12:05.260 --> 01:12:08.500 so that's the difference. But his writing and 01:12:08.500 --> 01:12:11.140 his information on it on and especially on brain 01:12:11.140 --> 01:12:15.060 asymmetry is amazing. Yeah, I very much appreciate 01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:19.520 your work with the clinical side and like those 01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:22.380 functional neuroscience side, because that's 01:12:22.380 --> 01:12:26.159 the that's the path. Absolutely. Earlier, you're 01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:28.859 talking about roads and I love those analogies 01:12:28.859 --> 01:12:33.739 and that's the road. Right. Yeah, well, let's 01:12:33.739 --> 01:12:36.079 spread the word out there through you and through 01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:38.560 other people like you and through your community. 01:12:39.279 --> 01:12:42.020 And, and, you know, we can create change. I mean, 01:12:42.159 --> 01:12:43.819 that's all we can do, right? We're in this world 01:12:43.819 --> 01:12:46.319 to hopefully make a difference. You're making 01:12:46.319 --> 01:12:48.359 a difference by what you're doing. And I'm making 01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:51.460 a difference. And I just, you know, once you 01:12:51.460 --> 01:12:53.079 make a difference, you only want to make more 01:12:53.079 --> 01:12:55.600 of a difference, a positive difference, right? 01:12:56.160 --> 01:12:58.779 So, you know, let's, uh, this is what we do. 01:12:58.939 --> 01:13:01.939 We put our mind and manifest that and, and, uh, 01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:05.819 we can make it happen. Yeah. Oh, let's stay in 01:13:05.819 --> 01:13:08.159 touch. And now, cause there's a lot of different 01:13:08.159 --> 01:13:12.039 things that we can really zoom into that I want 01:13:12.039 --> 01:13:15.819 to. Absolutely. Love to. Well, thank you for 01:13:15.819 --> 01:13:17.760 your time, Dr. Malalo. And I hope you have a 01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:19.720 great day. My pleasure. You too.