My guest today is Dr. Kinda Rigdon, PhD. Dr.
Rigdon holds a BS in microbiology from the University
of South Florida and a PhD in microbiology and
virology from the University of Alabama at Birmingham.
As an educator, entrepreneur, and research scientist,
she's dedicated her career to understand the
complexities of the gut's microbiomecosystem.
and its critical role in human health and wellness.
Dr. Rigdon is passionate about empowering people
to achieve optimal health through informed nutrition
and lifestyle choices. By the end of this episode,
we hope you learn more about the gut and autism
connection, yeast, the vast ecosystem of the
gut, the mother's gut health, the birthing process.
genetic implications tied to gut development
and health. And we will also discuss melanin
and Neanderthal DNA. Now, my conversation with
Dr. Kenda Rigdon. But if you just want to start
with giving us your background and sharing any
information about your journey, that'd be great.
Awesome. Yeah. Okay. Well, so my PhD is in microbiology
and technically virology. I studied HIV -1. In
the lab, we actually would look at the growth
of the virus. We would figure out certain mutations
and see how that virus was infectious or not
infectious. It was fascinating to study that,
but my program, I went through the Department
of Microbiology, actually finishing at UAB, University
of Alabama, Birmingham. From there, I went into
teaching. And so I've taught upper level science
courses at the college level in several different
institutions. But at one particular point, this
was maybe back in 2015, For my department, I
had to actually teach biology, microbiology,
and anatomy in the same semester. So when that
happened, it's funny because you are talking
about biology and ecosystems and animals and
all of that in one class and then going across
the hall teaching microbiology all about bacteria.
bacteria and viruses and infectious diseases.
And then I would go to an anatomy class and teach
about the human body and how this relates to
this and the functioning of different organs
and such. And it was during that time that I
kind of started to put all three subjects together.
And that's probably my, if I have a superpower,
I have very few, but the one that I might have
is connecting the dots. And so I'm very good,
I think, at observation and sitting there and
thinking about things and trying to see where
the dots connect. And so that's what happened
in this point in time in my career is I realized
here we have a gut microbiome, meaning all of
the microbes that live in your gut, your intestines,
your gastrointestinal tract, however you want
to call it. there are predators and prey and
One kind likes to eat the other kind and then
the yeast will make antibiotics to kill the bacteria
and then you throw in viruses and you throw in
parasites and the whole mix and it is an actual
ecosystem inside of your body and Then I started
to realize how all of this is happening in the
gut and how it connects to different organ systems
in the human the host and how that affects disease.
And so it was just this kind of aha moment for
me. And that's when I really started to dive
deeper into the gut microbiome. And especially
the part that I was super interested in is about
yeast, which is a fungus, a single celled fungus.
Yeast, if you've been in any basic biology class,
you'll learn that fungi are eukaryotes, just
like we are. Our cells, our human cells, are
eukaryotic because we have a true nucleus and
they're organized. All the organelles are organized.
Evolutionarily, it's a step up. from a prokaryote,
which would be like bacteria. They have kind
of this mess of DNA in the middle. It's more
primitive and simplistic. So whenever you think
about a gut microbiome having eukaryotes, for
me, that would almost be like going to Africa.
and standing in a savanna and looking around
and thinking, okay, what do I need to be cautious
about? Is it the very large lion that's over
there or is it the little tiny mound of termites?
It's like that with bacteria and fungus, which
fungus being yeast. You always want to keep your
eye on the eukaryotes because they have a lot
of tools for defense and for really out competing
anything else around them. So yeast immediately
became my focus. And after that, reading a lot
of different publications and books, I started
to realize the role of yeast. I started with
Candida albicans. Most people have heard of Candida
and Candida overgrowth in the gut and how that
impacts health. I started there and then I started
to learn about some other types of yeast. And
it turns out we have about probably five main
types of yeast that live in the gut in a typical
human. And of course it is dependent on what
food you eat and where you live and all those
things. But another yeast that has recently been
discovered to be in the gut is called Malassezia
furfur. So genus and species Malassezia furfur.
This is actually the yeast that originally they
found on the skin and it causes dandruff and
It loves to eat oil sebum from the human skin
because that particular yeast does not make these
oils in its its own It can't make it for itself.
So it has to get the oils from the host meaning
the human And so it likes to live in an oily
area with sebum or fatty acids. So this yeast,
doctors used to say, oh, well, that yeast is
just on the skin. It doesn't go inside the body.
But as we are now learning so much more about
our microbiome, not only our skin microbiome,
but our gut microbiome, everything, that actually
was debunked, and they found Malassezia in the
gut. And actually, they found it in nearly every
organ of the body. And they say that by age 15,
nearly 100 % of humans are inhabited by Malassezia
for fur. So it's something you want to keep your
eye on. It is a eukaryote. It has a lot of tricks
in its toolkit. So those are my focuses, Candida
yeast and Malassezia yeast. So where does this
intersect with autism and autism spectrum? For
me, I can't help it. As a trained microbiologist,
I see the world in microbial terms. It's just
my natural go -to. The first questions I ask
are, okay, which microbes are involved, because
I know there's something. So that's been my perspective
on autism, and I understand that autism is a
very complex, it's a complex topic. It is not
just one being, and there are many, many factors
involved. Definitely genetics plays a role, and
I think that they say autism spectrum is about
80 % heritable, so genetically passed on, and
it involves over 800 genes. So yeah, I mean,
we could look at a million different things and
say, oh, well, that might contribute to symptoms
or different aspects of autism. The part that
I want to focus on is the microbial connection.
to the genetics. So if you take genetics and
say, okay, yes, certain people have genetically
inherited mutations, and this may affect how
the body functions. And then you take the topic
of epigenetics, which is kind of a, it's a newer
science that people are learning about. Epigenetics
is, epi means on top of, and genetics is your
genes, your DNA. So it's not changes in the DNA
bases, it's changes on top of the DNA. So the
bases don't even have to change for you to have
a function loss in a part of your body. And that's
where epigenetics comes into play. Epigenetics,
I think, is where this topic connects to environmental
stimuli. And so if there are certain things in
the environment that either block changes, methylation
that happens in epigenetics or maybe it promotes
it, you want to look at that because that could
be important for the human that may have already
a genetic predisposition that environmental cause
could make it worse or exacerbate the situation.
So yeah, so you could look at like parental age
at conception. You could look at the perinatal
environment of the womb or the mother's health
or the mother's gut health. You could look at
her levels of estrogen, progesterone, all kinds
of things. And I want to add this in so I don't
forget about it. It looks like manganese is important.
So levels of manganese in the mother in her diet.
Collectively as a society in our food, we should
look at that because manganese is actually pretty
special and it does some things in the gut that
are important. So this is kind of my take on
it is how are we going to look at autism from
a microbial perspective? and link that to environment.
There's actually two different mutations I'd
like to highlight, if that's okay? Yeah, yeah.
Okay, so, and this came about actually during
COVID. I was part of a group of health professionals
that I think it was every two weeks, we would
get on a Zoom call. and discuss these were like
doctors, nurses, healthcare professionals that
were dealing with the COVID crisis in real time.
And they were trying to share like, hey, here's
what works for me or here's what I've found that
helps. And so on these calls, I remember one
of the doctors had mentioned, hey, I've noticed
that in my long COVID patients, so. people who
were dealing with long COVID and symptoms of
long COVID. Way after they had had COVID, they
were still having micro clots and blood clots
and stuff like that. He said, I've noticed something
about these particular people. He said, in this
group that I'm talking about, they are on the
autism spectrum. They have long COVID and there's
two mutations that are interesting. they have
the MTHFR mutation and they have the PAI1 mutation.
So I wanted to share a little bit about those
mutations because when he said that I was like
wait a minute I've never heard that before number
one and number two I need to know what's going
on here because Yeah, that's just super important
because of kind of where my head already was
with thinking about autism and stuff from a microbial
perspective so Let's start with mthfr. There's
a lot about this in social media People I have
noticed more and more people talking about this
particular mutation I'll say the science name
it is long We'll just get through it, and then
we'll just call it MTHFR from there on. So it
is the 510 -methylene -tetrahydrofolate reductase.
So M -methylene -tetra -T -hydro -H -folate -F
and reductase R, MTHFR. So if you have this mutation,
there's two different locations in the genome
where you can have a mutation. you can have one
or you can have both or however it kind of shuffles
out. One is a little bit more potent than the
other. So like if you have one of these, you're
gonna see more effects of it on your health versus
the other. So the first mutation is the 667 C
to T mutation. So a DNA base, the C changes to
a T. In the next mutation, it's still the MTHFR,
enzyme. It's the 1298 A to C, C as in cat, A
to C mutation. So either you can get these from
one parent or both parents. It just depends on
how it shuffles for you. And I will say this
is also, this is in my family. So I do have a
personal interest in this particular mutation
and this is why I've studied a lot about it.
So this particular enzyme, it is involved in
the methylation of homocysteine to methionine.
It also is involved in folate metabolism. So
let me break that down to make it a little bit
more simple. People who tend to have heart disease
they will have elevated levels of homocysteine
in their body. Homocysteine, so cysteine is an
amino acid. Homocysteine is a version of that.
It's also an amino acid. And then methionine
is also an amino acid. So this particular MTHFR
enzyme takes one and turns it into the other.
But if you don't have that enzyme or if it's
mutated or half mutated, your enzymes not working
at 100 % capacity. So you're not gonna get that
homocysteine broken down into methionine like
it's supposed to. So then there's potential outcomes,
health outcomes from that. The other side of
this is the folate. So this enzyme also takes
folate, which is vitamin B9. Most people know
that. part of it, vitamin B9. But there's a difference
between vitamin B9 that you might see on your
daily vitamin bottle, and that's usually going
to be called folic acid. They also tend to add
that one to products on the shelf. So like cereals,
they'll say, oh, added folic acid, whatever.
That is not the quote unquote healthy type of
vitamin B9. That's the type typically you want
to avoid. what's the more natural type for the
human body is called folate. It's still vitamin
B9. It's just a little bit different composition.
So people who have this mutation, this MTHFR,
their body cannot break down vitamin B9 into
folate very well. So they're going to have a
lack of vitamin B9 or folate in their body. And
that has other health implications. And so I'm
gonna circle back to that later on because there's
also a connection with methionine and SAM. And
SAM is involved in pigmentation, which I think
is important in this topic as well. So starting
out, so we've got this MTHFR mutation. A lot
of people who have that mutation also have the
PAI1 mutation. PAI1 stands for Plasminogen Activator
Inhibitor Type 1. If you have this mutation,
you are mutated in your Serpine1 gene, S -E -R
-P -I -N -E. This gene provides instructions
for making Plasminogen Activator Inhibitor, or
PAI1. PAI -1 is associated with insulin levels.
And it is involved in metabolic conditions like
type 2 diabetes. So basically, this PAI -1 regulates
liver lipid metabolism, lipid homeostasis. Anytime
you're talking about fatty acids, lipids, PAI
-1 is involved. So let's say you have a mutation
in your PAI 1g and everybody has two copies one
from mom one from dad the normal not mutated
Version is 5g 5g if you have a mutation. It's
called 4g So some people have one good copy and
one mutated copy. Some people have both copies
mutated if you have any mutations in this gene.
Basically, you have a lower amount of the PAI1
enzyme levels. So here's where that kind of comes
in. So there's two forms of PAI1. There's PAI1
and PAI2. The PAI1 is just kind of in the whole
body. PAI2 is made by the placenta. only during
pregnancy. So if there's a mutation there, that
could be an issue. Yeah, so these levels are
regulated two ways. They're regulated by genetics.
Like we just said, you could have a mutation.
It's also regulated by your triglyceride levels.
So that's where if you have high triglycerides,
you should look into your PAI -1 genetics. So
people with this PAI -1 mutation can commonly
have issues during pregnancy. Sometimes it can
be miscarriages. Sometimes it can be other pregnancy
issues like placenta accreta is one of them where
the placenta kind of grows into the wall of the
uterus and there's complications from that. And
then... Oh, obesity is another issue. Insulin
resistance and heart disease are all involved
in this mutation. So now that we know the two
mutations I wanted to highlight. First, do you
have any questions? Sorry, I don't want to talk
the whole time. It's great. I was just shocked
with the PA. I am the insulin connection. I'm
just putting away by that. Yeah, it's something
that's not talked about a lot and I actually
didn't even know about it. I didn't know it existed
until that friend of mine had mentioned, oh yeah,
I see this in my population of autistic patients.
And it was coincidentally part of the long COVID
issues because of the clotting, micro clotting
that these people were experiencing. So where
does this connect? Let's connect the dots. I
want to kind of start with that MTHFR because
studies have shown that it's approximately 24
% of humans globally have this MTHFR mutation.
It's more than you would think. What's the trend
of that in the last couple of decades? Do you
know? That's a great question. I don't know the
trend. I know that it is European and Asian predominantly,
and they think that's kind of where it started.
So if you are of European or Asian descent, you're
going to see that show up more often in your
genome than, for example, African, because it
didn't. it was not spread that way through genetics.
So actually I have written down that mutation
worldwide is 24%. A double mutation in the MTHFR
is 7 .7 % of the world population. In North America,
31 % of people have MTHFR and European is 34%.
So about a third of the population in the US
or Europe. They actually have this and maybe
they don't know it. I have a question too. With
that heavily involved with Europe and Asia, did
I get that right? Yes, you did. Is it more pronounced
for people that immigrate or they migrate to
different latitudes or different areas? That's
a great question. So genetically, I believe it's
just in the European or Asian descent. Now it
could cause different symptoms maybe, depending
on your latitude, your exposure to the sun, different
environmental factors. So you might end up having
different issues depending on where you are with
that mutation. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. Great
question. So with that, here's where my thoughts
go. And I just think that there's not enough
research on this area yet. And I would like to
see research on this coming out. But kind of
my take on it, or my hypothesis, if you would,
if you have this PAI1 mutation, this is the clotting
one, it's where, you know, you can't break down
the fibrin clots very well because you just don't
have the enzyme to do it. If you can't break
down clots, we know that serotonin is released
by platelets and serotonin helps the tiny little
arterioles in your body to narrow and it's going
to slow the blood flow and that prevents clots
from forming. So if evolution has this individual
that has a PAI mutation, it's going to prefer
anything that lowers your serotonin levels, basically,
because you don't want that serotonin to help
clots deform, because you already have an issue.
You don't have your PAI -1 enzyme. So let's say
you're in this body with this PAI -1 mutation.
You're worried about clots. If you lower your
serotonin levels, the clots don't form as much,
which, I mean, clots are kind of a big deal.
That could be life -ending. So that's a big deal
to a human body. So let's say you're trying to
slow down the serotonin. Your body's gonna adjust
by reducing the serotonin levels. And so interestingly,
this is where I think the yeast comes in. If
you have Candida albicans, so Candida yeast growing
in your gut, Candida loves tryptophan, okay?
Everything loves tryptophan. It is an essential
amino acid. It's like, if you could put yourself
into the gut environment, just pretend you're
a bacteria or a yeast. Like everybody wants the
food. Everybody wants the space. Everybody wants
to fight off their enemies, right? So it's like,
This is the environment. Let's say the human
eats a piece of tryptophan, maybe a big turkey
dinner. The human wants that tryptophan for their
body so that they can make serotonin, melatonin,
all the things that the human body needs. But
the bacteria is looking at the tryptophan saying,
I want that. And the yeast is looking at it saying,
I want that. So now it's a competition. Who gets
the tryptophan? And I think that's where if you...
are an individual that has a lot of candida in
your gut, maybe even what we would call an overgrowth
of candida. It could be, and I don't know this,
I haven't done this study, but it could be that
the candida is out competing for the tryptophan,
or maybe you have bacterial growth, overgrowth,
and then that's out competing and taking all
the tryptophan where the human just doesn't get
as much. So this could be one way that the human
body almost, I don't know if you would say, lets
it happen or uses the yeast to help it. Like,
hey, you know, I've noticed that if I let this
yeast overgrow in my gut, then I get less serotonin,
which doesn't narrow my arterioles and I don't
get as many blood clots, right? So it could be
a mechanism like that. I just think that needs
to be investigated. The other thing about Candida
that's interesting that I'll note here is that
Candida also makes a product. And this product
inhibits an inflammatory cytokine called interferon
gamma. And so it could be that the human body
kind of likes that. Like, hey, if I have more
Candida growing, it's going to start to tamp
down on at least a part of my inflammation. which
would be good for the human. So it's possible
that the candida is allowed or, you know, at
least tolerated to grow or overgrow in the gut,
because big picture -wise, that would potentially
help the human. And then I guess you could look
at, well, if it's not candida, it could be malassezia.
the other yeast that I mentioned at the beginning.
So it just, I think that the human body, I'll
put it this way. When you study biology, it's
really cool because there's so many patterns
that you can see. And in the wild, many, many
species like to eat yeast. And it's interesting
because, like, if you look at the leaf cutter
ant, they are in the Amazon, and those are the
little ants that carry those big leaves on their
back. And you're like, wow, they're so strong.
How do they carry that huge leaf, right? Well,
they're not carrying the leaves back to their
nest so that they can eat the leaf. That's not
their goal. They're taking those leaves and putting
it into their nest so that it will grow yeast.
and ferment, and then they eat the yeast growing
on the leaf, the dying decaying leaf. So it's
the yeast they're after. And then if you look
at bees, they also use a fermentation product
to decide if a bee is going to be the queen or
the worker bee. And depending on the yeast in
that pollen or the pollen type food that they
eat, it determines what epigenetics turn on and
change that bee into a worker or maintain it
as a queen. So, yeast is actually a signaling
molecule in the animal world, and it helps to
signal certain changes, epigenetic changes, in
the animals. And so if you look at that, and
there's other examples I could give, those are
just two, but if you look at that, you could
think, hmm, Maybe for the human, our gut is our
little nest or like in the ocean, it could be
a tide pool where we are growing what we need
for our health. Like we're gonna let certain
things grow in there because we actually need
the products they make to keep our body healthy.
And so that's the way I see it. I think it can
be good for the body, but I think it can also,
an overgrowth or too much can be bad and can
also affect disease. Okay. I don't know if this
question is way off topic, but I'm just always
curious because I've always heard that, or I
haven't always heard, but more recently I've
heard that fermented foods are the best thing
for gut health. Yeah. What's the relationship
with fermented foods and yeast? That's a great
question. So fermented foods have lactobacillus
growing in them. And lactobacillus is acidic,
or it makes a lactic acid, which is acidic. So
the more you have in your gut, the more acidic
your gut will be, which is tends to be a good
thing. And it's your gut. So if you're a microbe,
you like to live in a certain oxygen level and
a certain pH level. And so it has to be just
right for you to live there. If it's not just
right, you're not going to live there. So pH
actually determines what grows and what doesn't
grow. So the more of this lactobacillus you eat,
the more you're going to have an acidic environment
around that bacteria. And that's going to promote
the growth of certain healthy bacteria that you
need for your body. So yeah, I would definitely
say lactobacillus is a fantastic thing to eat.
And if you don't mind, can I make a connection
with birth here? Okay, so the cool thing about
lactobacillus, this healthy bacteria, is they've
found that pregnant women in their last trimester
will become enriched in the birth canal for lactobacillus.
And so if the baby is born naturally, and comes
down through the birth canal, it will get all
of this wonderful lactobacillus in its mouth,
in its nose, and that will all go down and it
will seed the gut. So the very first microbes
that go into that baby's gut during the birth
of that baby are lactobacillus. And then if you
breastfeed your child, that milk, the sugars
in the milk, are specifically designed to feed
the lactobacillus. So if you're doing the birthing
process the way that humans were made to be,
it should all line up, it should all, the gut
sets up correctly. It has lactobacillus, the
milk nourishes the lactobacillus, that grows.
Now that baby is given this treasure for its
lifetime on the very first day of its life. But
sometimes the way that we do things interrupts
that process. And so a baby that's born by C
-section typically gets seeded with skin bacteria.
That's the first bacteria that goes into their
gut, not lactobacillus. And then if you don't
nurse your baby and instead you feed it formula,
that baby is now not getting the sugars and the
so many other things in the mother's milk that
is specifically designed to start them. in a
healthy way. So I think we really need to take
a step back and look at how the birthing process
in a modern society occurs and I understand different
mothers have different situations for sure and
this is not judgmental in any way because I definitely
have friends and family members that have birthed
their baby c -section and it wasn't like a choice
they had to do it. So I get that, but I think
we really need to consider the method of birth.
If it's not like an emergency, maybe the mom
should be educated better and saying, this is
really why we do it this way. I think that antibiotics
during the birthing process should be looked
at. For example, certain mothers, well, before
you give birth, Sometimes if they find a certain
streptococcus bacteria in the mother's birth
canal, they will give her antibiotics for the
last week or two right before she gives birth
to eliminate that streptococcus. And there's
a reason for it. But I think we have to look
at the big picture and say, well, wait, why are
we doing that for everybody? Like, maybe that
should not be an across the board practice kind
of thing. I definitely think it's important to
look at the birthing process and keep that as
close to nature as we can. Yeah. Yeah. Because
evolution provided us that. Right. And, you know,
and it's not making any mistakes by doing so.
It's provided us with what it needs to do. It
works. I guess there are those outliers, I guess,
like you mentioned about. Yeah. But it's still
common. It's so common now. It's just like convenience.
We'll just schedule the C -section at this time.
Right, right. That's wild with how that gut lining
happens and then the breastfeeding. Yeah, right.
It's beautiful what a mother can give her baby
on day one. Yep. So let's, if you don't mind,
I'd like to talk a little bit about, let's see,
is it Malassezia? Oh, no, no, no, we didn't talk
about the Neanderthals yet. You wanna go there?
Okay, let's do it. So recently there was a scientific
paper published, I think originally the paper
was 2024, but it became, it just kind of, at
least it crossed through my email inbox, maybe
in May, it was May, of this year. And it talked
about how they looked at Neanderthal DNA and
they've found certain Neanderthal genes that
they're linking to autism spectrum. And I jumped
on that because for a long time, I have wondered
about the Neanderthal DNA. And anybody who's
in the division of studying genetics, I'm sure
this has been on their radar for a long time,
probably much longer than me. But the interesting
thing about Neanderthals is that they say that
approximately 2 % is in the human DNA. So every
human has about 2 % Neanderthal DNA in their
genome. some people a little bit less, some people
a little bit more, depending on what area of
the globe you're from. And I believe the Neanderthals,
if you look into it, they were living in this
main area, I want to say in Spain, like near
the Gibraltar, Rock of Gibraltar, in that area
there was like a cave where there was a pretty
large population. So it kind of came from that
area and spread and so they interacted with homo
sapiens, humans, and it crossed over. So interestingly,
they say that Neanderthals had red hair and blue
eyes, which when I learned about that, I was
pretty shocked. I actually did not know that.
But where that becomes interesting is the story
of melanin. And so you've talked about this before
on your podcast, but there's different forms
of melanin and there's the pheomelanin, which
is like the red tint that you have if you have
reddish hair, you know, light colors, light color
eyes, all of that. And then there's the eumelanin,
which is the brownish, darker pigment that you
would find in like the brown eyes or browner
shades of hair and stuff. So these different
shades of melanin actually turn out to be pretty
important. And this is where I think that they're
on to something, that this Neanderthal DNA may
be connected to certain pathways in the human
body that are important to the autism community.
Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Melanin is definitely
underrated, especially just as a protective,
what it's doing as a protective role. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. So I think I had learned that on your podcast
about how it scavenges the reactive oxygen species
from UV light. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a massive
protector. might be our top protection, I think,
is with the moon. And it absorbs, it's huge for
transferring biological energy. It's like transduction.
And that's why, because it's like that darker
melanin, it just absorbs everything. But I don't
know, that's like more quantum. stuff that's
not really mainstream, I don't think. Not like
it should be. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. And then,
you know, we have the melanocytes, the three
types of melanocytes, and then the three types
of melanin. The neuromelanin is so important
in especially the brain stem area. Yes. I don't
know. That deep inside the brain, like where
the brain evolved out of. It's huge there. The
neuromelanin is so big. And then there's diseases
like Parkinson's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And
yeah, substantia nigra, of course, is black because
of the neuromelanin, the locus rilius as well.
And we can connect tyrosine to all of that, too,
because we were talking about those neurotransmitters
and methionine and SAM and so forth. But But
yeah, let's we can get back to the Neanderthals
though, okay Yeah, is there anything else like
from that study because that was published in
nature a very good journal so Right. I know they
talked about This gene see I'm not great at genes
but SLC 22 a 10 which helps encodes proteins
for transporting adenions and castions across
the plasma membrane and the cell membrane, which
is pretty important, I think, in autistics, you
know, just that cell health. Yes, and mitochondria
function. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. They found
several Neanderthal genes. From what I read,
it wasn't just like one, but I'll read, I put
a few little notes down from this article. Yeah,
go ahead. They said Neanderthal genes may increase
your risk of depression. They're involved in
certain skin lesions like actinic keratosis.
They're involved in blood clots and hypercoagulation,
which we talked about today. Actually, the good
part is they boost your immune response. found
that these genes help you to defend against fungi.
They are also involved in the development of
skin and hair, which I think is interesting when
you consider melanin and how different hair and
skin types can be different colors. They're involved
in urinary tract infections, the transport of
vitamin B1, which helps to metabolize carbohydrates
in the gut. And then they're involved in nicotine
addiction. So we definitely have, I think we
have to keep an eye on this and like, hey, wait
a minute. What is the Neanderthal DNA doing as
far as human health goes? Because maybe back
in the day, it helped the Neanderthals. It was
actually like good for them to have these genes,
but our life looks very different now. We eat
different foods. We live in different regions
of the world. We have artificial light. You know,
there's a lot that's changed and maybe now it's
maladaptive to have some of these genes. So I
think it needs to be considered for sure. One
thing I've would like to say before I forget
about the melanin part, if you don't mind. So
you had mentioned about the substantia nigra
and how that has the darker pigment from the
melanin. And like Parkinson's disease, that substantia
nigra area gets lighter and lighter as the disease
goes on. The melanin actually is reduced in that
area of the brain. But interestingly, remember
at the beginning, I mentioned that yeast melasezia
furfur. So that one makes melanin. Okay, this
is okay. Yeah, and it actually uses the same
pathway, the tyrosine to dopa to melanin. Same
pathway. So this is where I think, what if The
human doesn't have enough melanin. So, well,
we've got this yeast living on our skin and potentially
in our gut and other parts of the body. What
if we can use this yeast to make melanin for
us? Because where this yeast occurs, they find
darker pigments around the yeast as it eats and
it produces melanin. So I don't know. I think
it's an area that needs to be researched. I think
it would intersect with Parkinson's disease and
other things. And personally, this is a debated
idea, so I'll put that out there. I personally
believe that this yeast could get into the brain
and live there, potentially undetected by the
immune system, or at least enough where it's
allowed to live there by the human body. I don't
fully know. Some people believe that the body
Especially the brain is protected and does not
have organisms microorganisms living in it But
there was a study in 2018 actually from the school
I went to and finished my PhD where a professor
she was in neuroscience and Her student found
these little rod tiny rod shapes on the slides
of brain tissue that they were looking at. And
the student said, what is this? I don't recognize
this. It's not a part of the brain. It's not
a brain structure. And the professor, she was
like, yeah, I don't know what that is either.
And they actually looked at all 32 slices of
brains. And that was in all 32 samples. And the
way they figured it out is that they invited
a professor from the Department of Microbiology
to come look at their slides and say, what is
this? And he said, oh, that's bacteria. And they're
like, wait, what? Bacteria in the brain? And
he's like, yeah, that's bacillus right there.
It looks just like bacillus. And then they had
to go through and make sure they had not contaminated
their slide prep materials. Maybe it was growing
in the gel that they used to make the side. And
it wasn't in there. It was actually a part of
all of the brains. And they presented this in
a neuroscience meeting. And it was kind of a
mic drop moment where everybody in the meeting
was like, wait, what? Excuse me? So like I said,
it's debated. Some people say, no way, it's impossible.
Other people say, yeah, it's in there. There's
microbes living in the brain. So who knows? I
think that's also interesting. I wonder if it's
the amount of inflammation and immune problems
now, if that blood -brain barrier is opening
up. And I know like vasopressin, I think, is
involved with that and that's connected to autism.
And I wonder if just our... You know, because
autoimmune problems are skyrocketing and everybody's
inflamed. I left it some degree if it's opening
up that blood brain barrier. Yes. Because I was
at first I was wondering if these brain slices
was maybe that person just had a lot of inflammation
or immune problems or maybe not. Yeah. I don't
know, though. And when they looked at it further,
I don't I think this may have been another group.
I can't remember that. The type of bacteria that
they found in the brain samples was the same
type of bacteria that was predominant in the
gut of that person. So potentially they think
that you've probably heard of leaky gut, where
they think your gut is leaky and potentially
some of the bacteria or microbes that should
stay in the gut maybe are leaking out, spreading
through the body. I think that's being researched.
So that could be a potential source. Earlier
you mentioned everything loves tryptophan and
you mentioned some synthesis with like the melanin
and things. I can't help but ask, like on the
epidermis, we have those melanocytes and then
we have caroteno sites. Within the caroteno sites,
TPH1 is very heavy. Tryptophan, hydroxylase 1.
Is there some sort of interaction with yeast
going on there? I think that's potentially. Yeast
needs tryptophan. Yeah, okay. It needs to be
studied. Yeah, okay. Because I'm very fascinated
with TPH1 as it's involved with the maternal
side and then the placenta and then the fetal
providing those nutrients and so forth. That's
why I was just wondering about that. Well, and
I think it would be interesting to look at people
who are albinos and so they don't have melanin.
And so then you like questions I've asked before,
OK, what diseases are they not getting because
they don't have melanin or what diseases do they
commonly get? because they don't have melanin.
And so I think it would be pretty easy to set
up even like a study where you're looking at
people with no melanin or maybe reduced melanin
or like pheomelanin instead of eumelanin and
then look at people that have extra melanin or
higher levels and like how does this compare
to what diseases they're getting what yeast lives
on their body in their body like It needs to
be looked at. I am not aware of a study that
has been done on that yet. Okay. I do know that
melanin is very good with anti -aging because
we're losing our ability to make water in cytochrome
oxidase, but that melanin will rescue that and
then we're creating more free electrons. Oh,
interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's,
yeah, that's 100 % true. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So
like, um, just increasing your melanin will help
you age because cytochrome C oxidase is breaking
down because we're not making water. If we just
reverse engineer the electron transport chain,
you know, cytochrome C oxidase is the last step
until ATPase. Yes. And then we're just losing
biological energy, essentially. And then we can
just backtrack that through all the cytochromes
and the TCA cycle and so forth. It's just, I
don't know. I don't think we go far enough upstream
whenever we're talking about things. Maybe by
design, I don't know. I understand. Yeah. It's
fascinating. Yeah, it is very, I love this stuff.
I've learned so much so far. What else is, what
else? was there uh let's see we talked about
the yeast the melanin neanderthals the yeast
is fascinating stuff oh you know what we didn't
talk about is the um the manganese and we started
out with that at the beginning yeah it was the
manganese okay so here's the interesting part
about manganese and so The reason why I think
it's important in autism spectrum is that you
have this epigenetics thing going on in the body
where outside environmental factors can influence
which genes are turned on or turned off. And
it doesn't even have to change the DNA base.
All it has to do is methylate or tag the top
of the DNA or not. And so things like what you're
exposed to. chemicals, you know, carcinogens,
whatever, all of that can affect epigenetics.
Well, turns out manganese is really important
in the body and in the gut. Manganese keeps your
gut hypoxic. So meaning low levels of oxygen,
because manganese will scavenge some of the oxygen
and keep the levels down. A hypoxic gut is a
healthy gut. I know it's different from other
parts of your body. But in the gut, you do not
want to have high levels of oxygen because it
promotes yeast growth, Candida albicans growth.
So there are certain bacteria that are healthy
in your gut. And the reason they're healthy is
they're keeping that gut environment hypoxic.
They're keeping the oxygen levels low. Well,
if you don't have manganese, or for some reason
your body is, you know, keeping the manganese
away from the gut or whatever's happening. Because
sometimes, you know, your body can take metals
and kind of hoard them away so that it kills
the pathogen you're being infected with. That
does happen. So we don't know if it's that or
another potential place where this could be happening
is that when we spray our food with glyphosate,
Glyphosate is something that in the soil, it
strips a plant of manganese, interestingly. And
we're spraying glyphosate on a lot of our common
crops throughout the Central US, commonly corn,
soy, things like that. And actually the plants
are worse for it. They are not as nutritious,
but they don't have the manganese that they need.
And so potentially if this were to be ingested
by a human, do we know the effects of a chemical
that strips manganese? Does it strip manganese
in our gut? I don't know. Right, we've been told
that the studies were done and glyphosate does
not harm the human cells. Does it harm the microbiome?
Does it harm the bacteria? Does it harm the yeast
in the gut? Does it change the oxygen levels
in the gut so that we now have a yeast overgrowth,
which then causes different effects or symptoms
in the human body? So I think that that part
needs to be looked at, manganese, because it's
shifting the oxygen levels in the gut. Okay.
I wrote down a question here and I don't know
if I want to ask it as specific as I wrote it
down or just more general, but I'll just ask
it as I wrote it down. Is the hypoxia because
it is better for the smaller prokaryotic cells,
like the lower oxygen? So when the gut is hypoxic,
Keeps the candida yeast from growing as well.
So you have lower yeast levels and It also alters
certain bacterial species. So it will like upregulate
Have the paper I think it said E. Coli a Certain
type of E. Coli and there was one other maybe
Clostridia Anyways, there's two bacterial species
that it promotes like they grow more and then
the candida grows less. And that is a healthier
gut, a hypoxic or low -oxygen gut. Those first
two things that you mentioned is big in autism
research. Bacteria? Yeah. Clostridia. Yes, that
one. Yeah, it is. Yeah. That's a cool one actually
Yeah, okay. Yeah When does when does yeast form
like in the human Living organism like through
embryo genesis or when does it come on board?
That's a great question. Um So that goes back
to a debate as to whether or not there are microbes
in the placenta and in the womb Some people or
scientists believe it's sterile. Some believe
that there are microbes in the womb with the
B. So it depends on kind of where you land with
that, but let's pretend or say that it's sterile.
Let's say that the first exposure to microbes
is the day of your birth and either through the
birth canal or through the skin or a C -section.
So the way the nature made it is that the baby
would go through the birth canal and pick up
lactobacillus, but also some yeast. I mean, that's
just a normal inhabitant of the human. So I would
say on day one, you're getting yeast. I don't
think it's a bad thing necessarily to get yeast.
I think it can be helpful. I think yeast overgrowth
is the problem. And so for example, I'm friends
with certain farmers that are trying to really
do a wonderful job of maintaining soil health
for their plants because they want the microbes
that are living in their soil to be just right
so that the plant takes up all the nutrients
from the soil and it's the healthiest possible
product that they can make to feed the humans.
And what they look at, it's not whether or not
there's bacteria and yeast in the soil. It's
the ratio. So like, do we have enough bacteria
and enough yeast, but not too much so that everything
in the soil lives and it's a healthy living ecosystem?
And I would say our gut is exactly the same way.
It's our dirt. It's our garden. You want some
bacteria and you want some yeast. You don't want
overgrowth. You want the healthy products they're
making to feed the nutrients to the human, but
you don't want it to be out of control where
now it's like trying to take over or spread,
you know? The gut, it's like I always think of
the gut as, I shouldn't say I statements, but
to me it's, I'm like, The gut brain predates
this big complex human brain because we had to
we had to extract all these nutrients and Be
healthy in the gut way before we had to do, you
know this part of the brain stuff. Yeah, like
planning and Just like navigating and surviving
really because that was survival for us way before
this Yeah. Yeah, so actually good is very in
Eastern medicine. A lot of times they'll call
the gut your first brain and your brain brain
is your second brain. Yeah. Yeah. And the heart,
I think even the heart is and then you know,
the human brain is very fast. And it's all connected
by the vagus nerve cranial nerve 10, which picks
up signals from several different organs, including
the gut. It kind of, you know, connects to the
nervous system, but your enteric nervous system
that goes around your gut. So all of these signals
that are coming from your gut, even neuromodulators
and stuff, can send signals through the vagus
nerve. Yeah, yeah. It's a big communication.
It's a big communication. And it seems like through
embryogenesis, they're all connected, though.
I don't know if the entire nervous system comes
from neuroepithel or if there's a different one.
I think it's a different one. Yeah, I don't know,
actually. I need to look that up. Yeah, the neural
relation has a, like there's, there's four cell
types, and then one of them are neural epithelial,
and it's like connecting, like, like the GI and
the central nervous system, I think. Yeah. Yeah,
I don't remember. But, you know, and that goes
all back to the environment and everything, and
the mother's gut health, and, you know, the mother's
physiology. and our modern environments not being
as optimal as they were for evolution, but why
I learned so much. Is there anything else that
we haven't covered that you think is salient?
Oh, that's good. Gosh. I think that. You know,
maybe this leads to the next conversation and
maybe not with me, but whoever that can talk
about foods that you can eat to keep your gut
healthy and lifestyle choices like exercise and
different things and the impact that those things
have on your gut. Because really, I think if
you view bacteria and yeast as, ooh, they're
bad, kill it. That's really the wrong way to
look at things. I think that most of them are
healthy most of them are here for our bodies
to help our bodies and I think you need to feed
them and keep them happy so that they keep you
happy and I think that Needs to be paid attention
to because there's things in our modern diet
They call the standard American diet the sad
diet There are things in there that kill the
good bacteria and the good yeast. And it's sad
because like it's almost like when it when something
goes extinct, it's extinct. Like you don't get
it back. You killed it. You killed every single
living member of that population. It doesn't
come back. So antibiotics, certain chemicals
in our foods, even what was I going to say? Yeah,
just preservatives. Everything you add to your
food, it's doing things to your gut. And when
it's gone, it's gone. You don't just get it back.
So I think it's important to consider that. So
yeah, I think it leads to more conversations.
Yeah. Can you define the phytobacteria? Is that
complex or no? It's not. That is one that they've
linked to happiness, that bifida really promotes
a feeling of happiness and well -being in a person.
And bifida is a bacteria that's one of the first
ones that starts your gut off when you're a baby.
So actually, it is almost, we call it an immature
gut when you have a lot of bifida. It's like
a baby in the first two, three years of life,
they'll have a lot of bifidobacteria. But then
their gut will change as they age and it starts
to, your gut ages naturally and that you'll see
kind of a shift in species. And then when you're
in your older years, then there's even further
shifting and you're gonna go more towards bacteroides
and some other bacteria. So you can kind of tell
a person's age by what is living there. Ambipedal
is a baby, one that we find in babies. And actually,
autism spectrum, they do say is an immature gut,
that it just doesn't quite develop past a certain
point. And they really say that the first thousand
days of life, it's this window of time that you
have to establish your gut. It's basically three
years. So when that baby turns three years old,
that's when it's kind of sealed and done. Any
changes you wanted to make in that gut, you kind
of ran out of time by age three. And kind of
what's there is there, and that's what they get.
So the first three years of life are crucial
for, you know, trying to keep that gut as healthy
as possible and considering what foods that child
is eating, what antibiotics they're getting,
any kind of chemical exposure, things like that.
you want to look at those three years of life.
I look at the ingredient list of formula and
there's like 90 ingredients it looks like. It
seems nefarious to me. It's not ideal. And then
if you further consider the antibodies that the
mom is giving her child through the milk, I mean,
There's nothing that's equal, just nothing equal.
Wow. Bifida bacteria is heavily attached to pathotism.
Yes. And, well, like some of the vaccines are,
I know it's touching you, but they're destroying
this biology that we're talking about. It's destroying
them. is what it looks like. I think everything
should be considered, especially in the first
three years of life, we should be looking at
it and saying, okay, what is this doing to the
gut? Yeah, yeah. What's something recently that
you're most excited about? Oh, great question.
You're, you're gonna probably like this one.
I'm actually working on starting a podcast of
my own. So I want to talk about gut health, and
it's going to be called Right in the Gut. So
I'm getting started. We'll see where it goes.
Right now I'm teaching. So that is my day job.
It pays the bills. But in my extra time, I'd
love to teach about gut health because I just
love it. And I find that people, you know, they
might not have an outlet really where they're
hearing some of this. And it seems to be that
they appreciate it. So yeah, that's coming next.
So maybe you can - That's a great - Thank you,
thank you. Maybe you can be my first follower.
Yeah, definitely. I learned so much today. And
you know, cause this is an area that I haven't
navigated a whole lot, just kind of surface level
stuff. Sure. You know, I get in rabbit holes
and sometimes I don't come out of them. So I
got to watch it. We all do. Same. Yeah, so good.
Same. Yeah. Well, yeah, good luck with the podcast
and stuff. You should definitely do it because
you can tell that you love it and we should do
more things that we love in life. I agree. I
agree. Yeah. I'm sure. Why? Anything else before
we wrap up? No, but I sure have enjoyed talking
to you and being here to share with your listeners
and I hope I hope somebody has something out
of it. Yeah, I think they will. This is such
good information. Well, have a good day. Okay,
you too. Take care. Bye -bye. Bye.