1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Welcome to From the Spectrum Podcast. This is a podcast about autism. It is my goal to explain what is autism. 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:22,000 I plan to use a mixture of scientific literature, personal experience, and opinion. 3 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:35,000 With opinion, I will explain why I feel the way I do and give examples. I will provide links to various references for each episode. 4 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000 For each episode, we will discuss various aspects of autism. 5 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:49,000 The biology that gives us autism allows us to be comfortable within ourselves. 6 00:00:49,000 --> 00:01:01,000 For today's episode, we will cover an underrated and nearly unknown but of tremendous benefit of autism. 7 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:10,000 There are a few, recognized brain regions, autistic traits, and studies that connect us. 8 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:27,000 In addition, long before this so-called science and studies, these findings, my experience from 1983 and 1984, brings these findings to life. 9 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:42,000 Beyond scientific studies, beyond methodology, materials, data, and so forth, defining the autistic phenotypes is not difficult. 10 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:53,000 Understanding it and bringing real-life data and experiences can bring these autistic phenotypes into power. 11 00:01:53,000 --> 00:02:10,000 A full understanding by the masses, a true shift into what society needs to do so the autistic phenotype can strive based off of who we are. 12 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:21,000 Some networks, also called brain connections, and some specific regions, also called nuclei. 13 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:26,000 These help determine the autistic phenotype. 14 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Biology determines the sets of behaviors noticed, observed, and scored from an assessment perspective. 15 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:51,000 No, the DSM-5 criteria A and B, for autism, the unique biology that gives us the sets of behaviors. 16 00:02:51,000 --> 00:03:05,000 First, then a sequela or downstream, we could add in some neuroplasticity, and we will cover that with the internal calculators. 17 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:12,000 Remember the 6 weeks old study at UCLA and the Salience Network. 18 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:21,000 This is a network, or sets of connections, that determine what are important to us. 19 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:28,000 Us, meaning all of us, it determines what is salient. 20 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Two critical regions of interest of the Salience Network are the insula and the interior cingulate cortex, or ACC. 21 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:52,000 But zooming in, more specific to a subdivision, the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex. 22 00:03:52,000 --> 00:04:01,000 The cingulate is fascinating and powerful. It wraps around white matter tracks. 23 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:17,000 The insula is also a fascinating meculae, involved in interoception, emotional processing, homeostasis, and self-awareness. 24 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:25,000 The insula processes internal states and environmental cues. 25 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:31,000 Our metabolic bank account will be heavily involved. 26 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:43,000 In addition, the dorsal ACC is involved in error detection, conflict monitoring, and motivation. 27 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:55,000 The dorsal ACC is part of the medial prefrontal cortex, a popular region for autism, and my personal second favorite. 28 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Already, you can imagine the Salience Network for the Autistic Phenotype, Biasis, us to our insides. 29 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:16,000 The Salience Network is also thought to be a controller of task switching, from internal to external. 30 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:25,000 Yet, as we just learned, it is not equally distributed, equally weighted. 31 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:32,000 It's a seesaw. One side is the internal attention and states. 32 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:43,000 The other side consists of external stimuli, and the fulcrum, or what balances this, is the Salience Network. 33 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:53,000 We've learned in previous episodes the default mode network is an internal state for some, including autistic. 34 00:05:53,000 --> 00:06:05,000 It is a deep and powerful state for autistics. It is our preference, our default. 35 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:19,000 The default mode network also heavily involves the medial prefrontal cortex, the posterior cingulate cortex, the prokinaeus, 36 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:28,000 inferior parietal, lobial, and retrosplenial cortex. 37 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:39,000 This can get tough to follow, but two areas of the medial, the ventral medial, sometimes called infralambic, in rats. 38 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:54,000 This area has the bi-directional connections to the neuromodulatory nuclei. Remember, a fetal choline, dopamine, nor epinephrine, epinephrine, and serotonin. 39 00:06:54,000 --> 00:07:00,000 All of them. Bi-directional connections to all of them. 40 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,000 This absolutely strengthens this internal state. 41 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:12,000 This is the nuclei, the ventral medial, is a preferred action item. 42 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:28,000 This existence, and another subdivision, the dorsal medial, which has roles in self-referential thinking, social cognition, and autobiographical memory. 43 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:41,000 The posterior cingulate, which includes roles with the self-referential and memory retrieval, and integrating information. 44 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Sounds like autism. The prokinaeus is in the parietal lobe, visual spatial imagery, and episodic memory. This is huge in autism. 45 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:09,000 The parietal lobio has the angular gyri, which integrates information, language processing, attention, and memory. 46 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:20,000 Finally, the retrosplenial equals spatial navigation, memory, and integrating sensory information. 47 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:25,000 This will be huge in our internal calculations. 48 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:35,000 My interpretation of the default mode network and autism is, this is our default. 49 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:46,000 This is our preferred state. You can see the full episode on autism and the default mode network. 50 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:57,000 If you understand these two networks, the regions involved and the roles, you should easily see the B3. 51 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:09,000 What do I speak about frequently? The restricted, fixated interest that are abnormal in intensity or focus. 52 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:20,000 This captures the insistence on sameness, so strict schedules, and lack of environmental influences. 53 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,000 You can see why we spend time on a single topic. 54 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Comfortably spend abnormal amounts of time on a single topic, or just a few limited topics, 55 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:42,000 which is in contrast with educational schedules and social norms. 56 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Let's talk a favorite of mine, internal calculators. 57 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:58,000 We have many of these. The first one I want to cover. One calculator that involves essentially one nuclear, the Locus cerylius. 58 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:04,000 This releases energy, epinephrine and nor epinephrine. 59 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:14,000 That's right, it's adrenaline, but brain adrenaline. Adrenaline from the adrenals. Don't cross over into the brain. 60 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:21,000 And this is true with other neuromodulators, such as serotonin and dopamine, are the two easy ones. 61 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:35,000 See autism and gastrointestinal problems. We cover these neuromodulators in the gut, in the peripheral, which are where most of these are made. 62 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:52,000 Okay, so the Locus cerylius connects from the brainstem to the entire brain. It releases epinephrine and nor epinephrine, essentially at all times when we were up. 63 00:10:52,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Of course, more during the sympathetic side of the autonomic nervous system that get up and go, sometimes loosely called fight and flight, which is a bit of a misnomer. 64 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:16,000 It's just a lay example, a catchphrase. 65 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:22,000 You can think of this as being released like on a Y axis, it's going up and down on a graph. 66 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:30,000 The effort, our actions release different levels of these neuromodulators. 67 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:43,000 Strenuous effort, learning bouts or physical bouts, or both, will generate more epinephrine from this nuclei on the brainstem. 68 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:52,000 Also occurring here is an internal calculator monitoring how much are we releasing. 69 00:11:52,000 --> 00:12:00,000 And within this calculation is what is the effort providing the outcome. 70 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:20,000 If you are a runner, you release these neuromodulators and you ambulate forward and simultaneously you are calculating how well you are doing, how you are feeling, what are your goals here. 71 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:34,000 If specific, consider the metabolic bank account and allocating and withdrawing energy based on internal states, based on your goal. 72 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:44,000 There is a crossover, a moment in time, you register, you are using lots of effort, lots of energy. 73 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:51,000 Remember this is an example using running, but this applies to anything. 74 00:12:51,000 --> 00:13:04,000 Gleeous cells, more specifically involved a type of Gleeous cell, astrocytes, are calculating this effort to outcome ratio. 75 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:15,000 Consider runner's high too, you've heard of runner's high, since we mentioned these chemicals, outcomes, effort and internal states. 76 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:30,000 Internal states are huge, it is a significant part of how we allocate our attention and more relevant what we send our attention to. 77 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:39,000 Always remember the biology that gives us autism allows us to be comfortable within ourselves. 78 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:48,000 Also the biology that gives us autism considers the outside world chaotic. 79 00:13:48,000 --> 00:14:02,000 We are biased to our inner world, however humans are social creatures and this is a autistic conundrum. 80 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:19,000 Once those Gleeous cells register outcome and effort don't match, Gleeous shuts down the epinephrine from the locus suruleus, it shuts the locus suruleus off. 81 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:25,000 No more brain energy, no effort or energy. 82 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Now understand why autistics can persist to objects, topics and subjects, not so much to others, to socialness. 83 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:55,000 Remember our biology and those traits that make up our phenotype and remember neuroplasticity, which is huge here. 84 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:01,000 What we do makes us more of that. 85 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,000 This stuff is so simple. 86 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,000 So what drives humans? 87 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,000 Chemically and behaviorally. 88 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,000 Dopamine, yes. 89 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:22,000 Dopamine synthesizes epinephrine and nor epinephrine and also a favorite of mine melanin. 90 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:32,000 Anyway, dopamine is about our drive, what we want and like, our motivation. 91 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:41,000 Dopamine is also constantly released and it fluctuates based on the stimuli. 92 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:47,000 On that Y axis, the amount released is constantly changing. 93 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Those constant pulses, a little release and then drop, release and then drop. 94 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:13,000 If something is pleasurable to us, if something we want and gives us drive, the delta of release versus the drop, the release will be more greater than the drop. 95 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:24,000 Conversely, if something is painful to us or for craving something, we're massively wanting something and we cannot have it. 96 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:33,000 The pulse, the drop will be greater than the release and this will take us below baseline. 97 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Now, if you think about autism, let's think about something easy, something that we can all make sense of and that is socialness. 98 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:53,000 Now, think about the epinephrine and glia, that calculation there, how those are working hand to hand. 99 00:16:53,000 --> 00:17:00,000 Socialness requires a lot of energy for the autistic phenotype. 100 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:07,000 There's a lot of energy and demand, a lot of effort to undergo this. 101 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:22,000 And if you think about the reward, the outcome of this effort and energy, we're going to shut down fast because it's not pleasurable. 102 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,000 It's very complicated, it's very difficult. 103 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:30,000 So the glia will shut it off, will shut us off. 104 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:41,000 And this is common, this happens to everybody based off of whatever it is we're taking on, whatever effort, whatever task. 105 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:52,000 Now you can understand why all of that effort that exhausts us, then you can hear about the autistic burnout. 106 00:17:52,000 --> 00:18:00,000 You understand this, everybody experiences burnout, it's just the frequency of it or the intensity of it as well. 107 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:08,000 But what if it is something that we enjoy, whatever it is specific to that living organism? 108 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:21,000 How can a task, a topic, whatever is salient to the living organism, how can we exert so much effort and enjoyment? 109 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,000 Well, that's dopamine. 110 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:35,000 Dopamine is the fulcrum here that's balancing effort and time with the outcome, the reward, the enjoyment. 111 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:48,000 Now with a topic, a subject or an object, whatever the case, when we are focused in on something that has us very curious, that we very much enjoy, 112 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:56,000 dopamine is being released and dopamine keeps us attached to whatever it is. 113 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,000 For us, it's more the object, topic and subject. 114 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:14,000 For somebody that's so-called extroverted, loves to socialize, their dopamine will be released more and greater amounts than those drops during these social environments. 115 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000 We are all unique. 116 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,000 This is the big point here. 117 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,000 We are all unique. 118 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:29,000 But these neuromudulators and these brain regions and these networks, they all work the same. 119 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,000 It's just they are a little bit different based off of the context. 120 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Now you can dissect the language used, the wording used in B3, restricted, fixated interest that are abnormal. 121 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:56,000 In intensity or focus, our dopamine is being released and keeps us attentive, keeps us attached to the interest. 122 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,000 And that gives us intensity or focus. 123 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,000 This is autism. 124 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000 This is the core of autism. 125 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000 This implicates our socialness. 126 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:19,000 This explains the criteria A, regarding the lack of social communication and interaction. 127 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,000 What is salient to the living organism? 128 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:31,000 Determin' this, a popular internal calculator is the so-called reward prediction error. 129 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:42,000 A value-based calculator specific to the living organism, largely based on reinforcement learning. 130 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:47,000 This is expected versus actual outcomes. 131 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:53,000 If more outcome than expected, the stimuli can strengthen. 132 00:20:53,000 --> 00:21:04,000 If lower actual versus expected, then we get disappointment, frustration, pain, etc. 133 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,000 This occurs. 134 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,000 Dopamine is central to both pleasure and pain. 135 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:23,000 And this will include reward prediction error and its counterpart, aversion prediction error. 136 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,000 Brain regions for both are similar. 137 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:35,000 The delta is the salience, the expectation, pleasure, or pain. 138 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:46,000 Similarly, risk-reward is an internal calculator, assessing potential benefits versus potential harms. 139 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,000 This estimates values. 140 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:56,000 Here, and what we are considering, is the human prefrontal guidance. 141 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:03,000 The area of the brain that allows us to sustain our species. 142 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:16,000 The area that is responsible for most of our metabolic bank accountant, future planning, the flexible rule-setting machine. 143 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:22,000 The brain, as a large organ, predicts. 144 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:33,000 It allocates energy and determines metabolic expenditure, metabolic withdrawals. 145 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:39,000 The task in our internal state is a big influence. 146 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,000 All of this is modulating our attention. 147 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,000 What is salient to us? 148 00:22:47,000 --> 00:23:01,000 The purpose of the brief introduction of these internal calculators are, which, remember, are not limited to autism, is to remind people. 149 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,000 We are who we are. 150 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,000 Our nervous systems plural. 151 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,000 Create our uniqueness. 152 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,000 And the brain works as a prediction machine. 153 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:20,000 That allocates energy as this metabolic bank accountant. 154 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,000 Do I have enough resources to cover this task? 155 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,000 In real time, and in thought. 156 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:36,000 In other words, our so-called executive planning, executive functioning. 157 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:43,000 In addition, in unexpected circumstances. 158 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:50,000 For humans, the social world, the outside world, is very unpredictable. 159 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,000 You understand the social struggles of autism. 160 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,000 One, the biology that makes it difficult. 161 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:06,000 And two, neuroplasticity that makes us more of what we are. 162 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,000 Two huge factors. 163 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:18,000 The social withdrawal and the attachment and preference to objects and topics or subjects. 164 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:27,000 Are the main reasons parents and educators pursued Canner and Asperger. 165 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:36,000 But the biggest takeaway is not about the why or the how of the autistic phenotype. 166 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:44,000 It is important because humans love to first make sense of something. 167 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,000 Accepting something is paramount for us. 168 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,000 We easily get to an answer. 169 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,000 Get to something that we can make sense of or that does make sense to us. 170 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,000 And we can think that must be it. 171 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000 Or that is it. 172 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:10,000 The takeaway is nurturing the so-called neural differences. 173 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:18,000 Problems with the autistic phenotype comes from others forcing us into social norms. 174 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:26,000 Into situations or whatever that are in complete contrast of our ability. 175 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,000 Our construction, our biology. 176 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Put numbers to that and measure that delta. 177 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000 If you need numerical data. 178 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,000 Please do. This would be wonderful data to show. 179 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,000 And we put numbers and values to behaviors all of the time in neuroscience. 180 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,000 It's not difficult. 181 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:57,000 Society that understands our phenotype will allow us to achieve. 182 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:07,000 We have curiosity and special connections to objects, topics and subjects. 183 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:15,000 We explore the environment and interest with great intensity and focus. 184 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:24,000 And here we go again with B3 and autistic intelligence and little professors. 185 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:33,000 Two other known problems, so-called problems with the autistic phenotype are the insistence on sameness. 186 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,000 That strict schedule. 187 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:44,000 Now you can understand maybe that the strict schedule branches off of everything we just discussed today. 188 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,000 Preferring our own intensity and focus on interest. 189 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:59,000 Our own ability to spend time on that and not be forced into the social norms. 190 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,000 And also the relationships. 191 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,000 This also implicates relationships. 192 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:14,000 Our ability being able to just make sense of the environment around one person or multiple people. 193 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:23,000 This is very complicated and based off of everything with those brain regions and networks and our interest. 194 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:29,000 And how unpredictable and how much energy and effort are involved. 195 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:36,000 And the lack of social skills built up over time based off of these networks and regions. 196 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000 We are who we are. 197 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:44,000 And it's very complicated when we mix in with other people. 198 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:53,000 The relationship, a successful relationship often will cause one person to give up something about themselves. 199 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,000 And provide it to the other person or other people. 200 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000 And in turn they do the same. 201 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:06,000 They give up something about themselves and give it to the other person or other people. 202 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,000 And together they form this bond, this connection. 203 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,000 This being compatible. 204 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:27,000 We are giving and taking and the delta there, what is considered is, does this person make things easier, better, more pleasurable and vice versa? 205 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,000 Does it make it a better situation? 206 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,000 I'm not saying that autistics don't want the relationships. 207 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:48,000 I'm saying a lot of times they're complicated, difficult and the skills to undergo these demanding tasks are often lacking. 208 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,000 You can see the episode on autism and relationships. 209 00:28:53,000 --> 00:29:01,000 If you are listening to the podcast or listening to the episode, please feel free to leave a review or rating. 210 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,000 In podcasting reviews, ratings and downloads are huge. 211 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,000 And I very much appreciate your feedback. 212 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:24,000 You can contact me on X at RPS 47586 and we can have comfortable conversations about autism. 213 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:30,000 You can check out the hop link for all the links to the shows and my contact information. 214 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:40,000 You can email me info.fromthespectrum at gmail.com. 215 00:29:40,000 --> 00:30:04,000 Thank you for listening to From the Spectrum Podcast.