1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,040 My guest today is Dr. Theresa Regan. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:12,560 Dr. Regan is the founder and director of the OSF Health Care Adult Diagnostic Autism Clinic 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,780 for ages 14 and over. 4 00:00:15,780 --> 00:00:21,720 She has experience with autism assessments reaching nearly 1,000 adolescents and adult 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:30,120 evaluations working as a neuropsychologist specializing in brain behavior relationships. 6 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:35,600 It is no secret Dr. Regan is a specialist for adults with autism. 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:42,840 Dr. Regan is an author of a book series called Understanding Autism and Host of a Successful 8 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:50,400 Podcast Autism in the Adult, where she covers vast amounts of useful everyday benefits of 9 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:59,240 adults with autism, whereby she reaches audiences to better understand adults with autism. 10 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:06,040 Her podcast features various series for a variety of topics and is, in my opinion, provides 11 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:13,400 such valuable insights on how adults with autism can learn necessary skills and understanding 12 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,800 to better navigate life. 13 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:23,600 In addition, Dr. Regan has experience being a mother of an autistic young adult. 14 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,920 These topics of adults with autism are extremely important to me in my personal life and I'm 15 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,400 very thankful for her consideration and knowledge. 16 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,160 And now my conversation with Dr. Theresa Regan. 17 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:47,400 Dr. Regan, tell me about your journey into psychology and into autism and then specifically 18 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,800 adults and adolescents with autism. 19 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:55,880 Well, I had a kind of a backdoor journey, which I think has actually been a real blessing 20 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,280 for me. 21 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:04,560 So in high school, I thought I wanted to do something with my life that involved the brain 22 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:11,960 and understanding the brain as far as thinking and how we become who we are. 23 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:20,000 So I ended up studying in graduate school clinical psychology, which means I work with 24 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,600 clients and their families. 25 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:28,840 And then I specialized in the brain part of that, which is neuropsychology. 26 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:34,880 And in neuropsychology, you get to pick, would you like to focus on adults or would you like 27 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,840 to focus on children? 28 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:44,240 And so I ended up on the adult track, which usually includes like adolescents, adults 29 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,320 and then geriatric adults. 30 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:59,680 And after that, I had trained in many hospital settings and I ended up getting a professional 31 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,040 job in Central Illinois, Peoria, Illinois. 32 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,880 And I worked in the hospital setting and continue to. 33 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:13,520 I'm at 25 years here now at OSF Healthcare in Peoria. 34 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:19,080 And boy, I've had the opportunity to see lots of different things and learn lots of different 35 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,560 things. 36 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:30,560 And mostly I focus on in adults, how changes in the brain, wiring and structure can impact 37 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:37,680 thinking skills and also emotional expression, personality and behaviors. 38 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,080 So that was my base. 39 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:45,000 So I might, for example, do a checkup with someone to see if there looks to be a dementia 40 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:51,240 process going on, or I might work with someone who has a traumatic brain injury or an infectious 41 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,000 brain injury. 42 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:59,880 So I got to do that for a long time throughout my training and then also in the hospital 43 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,280 setting. 44 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:08,880 And again, that was just such a great global broad experience. 45 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:19,480 And then I became a mother and in our journey with our son, you know, it was confusing and 46 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:28,440 just, it was hard because he seemed in so much distress and I didn't know how to help 47 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:35,120 him or what was, you know, you get lots of advice as a parent, you know, but you can 48 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:40,720 still feel very isolated and alone and trying to figure out how to help your kids. 49 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:50,760 And so he had interventions from an early age and then at about four, I requested the 50 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,320 autism assessment and that was done through Easter Seals. 51 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,080 So he was diagnosed just after he turned five. 52 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,640 And I remember thinking, I am not prepared for this. 53 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,920 I do not know what I'm doing. 54 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:14,800 And then I stopped and I thought, you know, my whole life has really prepared me for this 55 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,280 in some ways. 56 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:26,320 Like I at least have a framework for understanding that brain wiring impacts how a person experiences 57 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:33,840 the world, how they express themselves, I at least have that lens, that framework. 58 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:39,800 And so I just, I'm a very kind of activated person. 59 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:47,760 So when I'm stressed, I kind of jump in and I try to learn and I try to experiment with 60 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,040 what might be helpful and what's not helpful. 61 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:59,320 So over that journey, then I'm also of course working at the hospital and I'd see patients 62 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:05,360 in the hospital setting and the staff would be confused, you know, like, I just don't 63 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,280 understand what we're missing with this individual. 64 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:10,160 How could we help them? 65 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,560 How could we understand? 66 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:19,800 And I think, I know what this is, it's undiagnosed autism and it may be in an 82 year old or 67 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:29,320 maybe in, you know, a 54 year old and not only do pediatric specialists not know how 68 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:35,480 to recognize it in adults, but adult specialists don't know because they don't focus on developmental 69 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:43,520 issues and they don't realize that developmental issues impact the presentation and the needs 70 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,400 of that individual throughout their whole lifespan. 71 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:55,440 So I just had experience after experience where it was such a blessing to be able to 72 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:04,920 add that component of understanding to the staff, to the client, to the family members. 73 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:11,320 And then I thought, you know, I just really want to dive into that more. 74 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:18,120 And at some point, you know, I realized I'm just really providing the service we should 75 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:26,320 just make it official and say, you know, we do this type of service for adults. 76 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:36,200 And so the administration gave me permission to form a name and put into practice the adult 77 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,040 diagnostic autism clinic. 78 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:44,960 And I've done over a thousand assessments now and I think, you know, I start at 14 as 79 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,560 the age range that I see. 80 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:55,240 And then I think the oldest diagnostic assessment, the person was in their 80s, like maybe 82. 81 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,880 And I realized too how important it is to distinguish autistic characteristics from 82 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,200 what might look like a dementia to someone who doesn't know how to recognize the developmental 83 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,200 features. 84 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:13,400 And I came in through the back door, but that gave me another viewpoint, a different perspective 85 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,880 that I've been really blessed by. 86 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:16,880 Wow. 87 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:23,240 And so I got a couple of different things from the introduction. 88 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:30,160 It's like, in my experience, it seems like the most educated people with autism are those 89 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,400 that live it or are around it. 90 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,400 Yeah. 91 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,160 And they're superior over any research. 92 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:39,160 Yeah. 93 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:47,400 I think there's part of the living day today that you just can't get from a book. 94 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:53,160 I mean, in graduate school, I certainly learned about autism. 95 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,720 And of course, we know a lot much more about it now. 96 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:03,000 And I had gone to conferences about it before and I didn't even realize what I was seeing 97 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,320 until he was about four. 98 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:19,880 So even as a neuropsychologist, it's really hard to translate what you're seeing into this 99 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,880 vocabulary of neurology, especially for young parents too. 100 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:33,480 I think parents are encouraged to require the same behavior from all of their kids and 101 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,080 to have very close, clear consequences. 102 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:44,240 And what I've really been blessed by is the ability just to be a detective with people 103 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,960 and be like, wow, they're really overwhelmed. 104 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,400 What has led to this and how can we help them regulate better? 105 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,000 How can we help them feel better? 106 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,240 And what a breakthrough that is for people to be able to look at it in that different 107 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,240 way. 108 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,240 Yeah. 109 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:10,360 I'm delighted whenever you said that you just typically jump into things. 110 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:15,160 I think action, jumping into things and stress are anti-correlated. 111 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,120 So if you just get into it, your stress will calm. 112 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,440 And much more people would understand that. 113 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:29,800 As a psychologist, did you feel extra pressure because of you are navigating this and you 114 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:39,720 should be well-conformed or maybe even an expert? 115 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:52,880 I think that also was a blessing to me to realize that all the book knowledge in the 116 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:59,880 world, because my graduate program was like nine years after my bachelor's degree. 117 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:04,200 So it's an intense brain program. 118 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:11,600 And all this knowledge, there's always something we don't know. 119 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:18,840 And that piece of humbling experience, and I remember thinking back to things I have 120 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:26,000 thought in my mind that with life experience, I would never say again. 121 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:35,320 Like I remember walking into Walmart before I had a child and I saw a child, maybe three 122 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:44,120 or four in the cart and they had a pacifier in their mouth. 123 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:50,640 And I in my infinite wisdom, not being a parent, thought to myself, that would never 124 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,960 happen in my house. 125 00:11:52,960 --> 00:12:08,440 And then as a parent, my child had this fixation with turning and holding three pacifiers in 126 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,880 each hand and two in his mouth. 127 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,200 And that was how he regulated and he'd turn them. 128 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,960 And I had to go into Walmart really quickly. 129 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:26,400 I never took him into any, but I had to grab a photo. 130 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:33,320 So I said to him, and he was probably, oh, he probably was around four. 131 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,320 So I said, we're just going to run in really quickly. 132 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,560 And you can only take one. 133 00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:40,840 And I said, it's going to be really quick. 134 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:51,840 And sure enough, someone in the line started to tell me about how to stop that. 135 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,800 And they're like, here, you can just take it out of his mouth. 136 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,320 And they were taking it out of his mouth. 137 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,200 And I had to be, remember that humbling contrast. 138 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,080 And like that was me. 139 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,720 Without life experience, that was me. 140 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:13,480 And so it also has given me some grace to let people be in a different place than I am 141 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,480 because they haven't had that experience. 142 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,920 And so I just was able to say, you know what, we're not going to do that today, but I appreciate 143 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,120 your input. 144 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:35,120 So it's a humbling experience to live it and realize that you didn't have the whole picture. 145 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:42,520 And it also, I think, if handled well, allows you to extend grace to people who don't understand 146 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,760 or are in a different place. 147 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:45,760 And that's OK. 148 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:46,760 Yeah. 149 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:55,040 It would have been a typical or an easy reaction to kind of get on to that other person for 150 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,320 not knowing anything about what's going on. 151 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:58,320 Yeah. 152 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,960 And I could have felt very criticized. 153 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,760 Even as a parent, and parents get weary of criticism. 154 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:13,120 But again, because I had had that experience in Walmart, and I had processed that since 155 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,200 then, and I thought, what a contrast. 156 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:25,000 And I was able to choose then in the moment, instead of being really emotional or shaming 157 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,000 to them. 158 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,520 I was able to stop. 159 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:35,520 And so I think that's been my experience that here I am with all this book knowledge and 160 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,800 experiences the way that you really grow. 161 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,640 And can I grow while extending grace? 162 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:49,600 So I think that's been one of the biggest takeaways as far as my professional intersection 163 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,400 with my personal life. 164 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:52,400 Yeah. 165 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:53,400 That's wonderful. 166 00:14:53,400 --> 00:15:01,520 And I'm reminded of your brain behavior relationship as a neuropsychologist and just having an 167 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:07,960 extreme interest with neuroplasticity and how we change and develop all the time. 168 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,160 That's pretty cool to me. 169 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:17,960 So what are some common themes adults with autism come to you with? 170 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,920 What that looks like for them and their life? 171 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,620 For them around others. 172 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:33,000 So one thing to keep in mind, and I, you know, a lot of times when I share stories, I'm sharing 173 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,400 experiences that are based in a time of struggle. 174 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,360 So as a clinician, people come to me in a season of struggle. 175 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,240 Yeah, that's a good thing. 176 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:48,840 Yeah, that doesn't mean that everything about autism is struggle. 177 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:57,080 But when people intersect in my clinic, they're coming for assistance and that they've been 178 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,640 in a season of struggle. 179 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:13,120 So a lot of times the themes are that there's been, they've hit a roadblock in their ability 180 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:23,960 to understand themselves and to shift their behaviors to meet the expectations of others. 181 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,360 And people around them are confused and they're confused. 182 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:35,080 And there can be this kind of shaming situation. 183 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:40,120 And it kind of goes back again to some of the parenting things too. 184 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:46,440 Like as a parent, you get a lot of this input like, that wouldn't happen in my house. 185 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,760 And again, I've said that. 186 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:56,800 And or things like, you know, if your child is struggling, it's because you aren't doing 187 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,600 something correctly. 188 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:05,000 And then as they get older into adulthood, they get the message that if they're struggling, 189 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,080 it's because they're not doing something well. 190 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:14,480 And we have this kind of American, and I'm sure part of it is just a human outlook. 191 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:22,480 But in the United States, we have this value for independence and determination and willpower. 192 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:28,240 And you know, there are posters around that say the only thing holding you back is you, 193 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,240 you know. 194 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:35,760 And so, but what that can lead to, if you don't understand neurology, is this feeling 195 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:43,560 like if you are not meeting the expectation of the classroom, if you are not meeting the 196 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:50,760 expectation of the Christmas party or whatever, it's because you don't have the will or determination 197 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,640 to regulate yourself in a complex situation. 198 00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:01,480 And so one of the themes that has been, and again, I think this is one of the biggest 199 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:11,600 reasons to get a clarifying diagnosis is that if something is a stumbling block for someone's 200 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:21,920 wellness and it's related to a traumatic experience or, you know, poor life choices or whatever, 201 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:29,600 our psychology approach can be very helpful if the difficulty regulating or meeting their 202 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:35,680 goals is related to a nervous system that needs something different. 203 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,960 We need to know that. 204 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:47,960 And not only can it break that cycle of shame and stuckness, like I'm stuck because none 205 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:53,720 of the traditional things are going to are really helping me to overcome this. 206 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:59,520 But it gives new approaches that you wouldn't otherwise have. 207 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:06,480 So you have a better understanding, you have new approaches and the theme of why are we 208 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:07,600 stuck? 209 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,440 Is it because of you or me? 210 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:18,920 You know, that can be broken and we can focus on being detectives and figuring things out 211 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,480 together and partnering together. 212 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:27,560 So regulation, you know, the ability to stay calm and psychologically present in various 213 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:34,120 situations can be one thing that people present with as far as struggle. 214 00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:37,480 Communication and relationships could be a point of struggle. 215 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:43,800 And sometimes it's that adulting piece, you know, like just getting through the day and 216 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:50,200 why am I brilliant in physics but I struggle to pay my bills on time or whatever. 217 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,240 So those would be some common things. 218 00:19:52,240 --> 00:20:02,240 But the overall shift could be about this greater understanding, breaking those assumptions 219 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:09,640 that just keep us trapped and then focusing on solutions for those stumbling blocks. 220 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,640 Yeah. 221 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,640 Yeah. 222 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:21,080 I think an easy way to describe autism is lacking adaptive responses, especially from 223 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:28,720 the some of the neurobiology of autism and how we have to integrate into society and 224 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,160 social norms. 225 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,000 And that's very much in contrast of the autistic phenotype. 226 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:39,160 And without knowing that you have the autistic phenotype, like officially, that can be very 227 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:40,160 challenging. 228 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,160 Yeah. 229 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:50,440 I think and a lot of the challenge is just that people don't know. 230 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,360 I mean, they don't. 231 00:20:53,360 --> 00:21:01,760 There's just a lack of knowledge and that's something we can help with, you know. 232 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:08,640 So autism has become a household word in many respects, but at the same time, not many people 233 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,240 know what it looks like. 234 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,240 Yeah. 235 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,240 They know. 236 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,240 Yeah. 237 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,240 Yeah. 238 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:21,720 So translating like this is neurology in this person can be really important. 239 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:34,000 But yeah, the brain's neurologic architecture that we're born with, the more knowledge we 240 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:40,200 have about each individual, you know, the more enlightened we can be about, oh. 241 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,880 So because we'll always say, what does this behavior mean? 242 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,480 Because behavior is communication. 243 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:53,120 So if somebody who doesn't know autism interacts with someone, they're still going to be saying 244 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,800 like, what does it mean that they looked at me that way? 245 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,200 What does it mean that they didn't say this or they did say this? 246 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,000 And we're supposed to get meaning out of behavior. 247 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:13,960 But if they don't know that neurology presents that way, then there's these wrong assumptions. 248 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:21,200 Well, they just don't care enough or they don't care about me or they're focused on 249 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,280 this interest and they think it's more important than me. 250 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:32,480 So if we can introduce this knowledge that this is what neurology looks like in this 251 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:39,600 person and their behavior doesn't mean that you've been rejected or you've been slighted, 252 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,000 it means that this is what intrigues their wiring. 253 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,640 This is what their wiring loves. 254 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,200 And how do we translate that so that both people's needs can be met and that you can 255 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,160 understand each other? 256 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,240 So it's not me against them or them against me, but it's, oh, we have nervous systems 257 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,360 and this is what yours looks like. 258 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:01,360 Yeah, okay. 259 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:07,920 Yeah, so I had a follow-up question and I was wondering some helpful tools or protocols 260 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:16,000 that you might have in your experience, especially with the amount of logistics that you've worked 261 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,200 with, though they might be kind of general things that's helped. 262 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:28,000 But I was just curious if there's some common protocols or tools that you guys work with 263 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,040 or work with. 264 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:41,480 So I think one intervention tool is essentially explanation, like translating. 265 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:50,840 So even when people come, often they come with family or they, even when they suspect 266 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:58,080 this might be what it is, they often don't see all the pieces that hang together in the 267 00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,800 brain and why. 268 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:08,320 So part of the big intervention is pointing that out, like your brain really loves this 269 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,800 and this works for you in this way. 270 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,320 But look at how it could work against you in this way. 271 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:21,880 So really giving them that more true narrative is one of the interventions, I think. 272 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:36,920 And then one of the things I think is so important that no counselor or teacher or physician 273 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:44,160 really is going to bring up is the use of physical inputs for regulation. 274 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,640 And I think the autistic really needs that. 275 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:57,000 And what I mean is that looking at that proprioceptive and vestibular input to just calm and regulate 276 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,160 the nervous system. 277 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:06,280 So what we tend to do if someone's dysregulated, if they're upset or if they can't get activated, 278 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,680 we tend to talk to them about it. 279 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,680 So let me tell you why you should be in a different place emotionally. 280 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,880 Let me tell you why you should behave differently. 281 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:27,880 And this talking while someone's dysregulated is not really helpful to the autistic because 282 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,880 talking is draining. 283 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,160 So the autistic is like, I'm already drained. 284 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,000 You are talking to me about being drained. 285 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,800 You know, let's send you to counseling so that you can talk more about how you're 286 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,640 feeling. And I have nothing against counseling. 287 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:47,640 I do it. 288 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:48,760 I think it's very effective. 289 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:55,520 But there's something else the autistic needs, which is how do I just get my nervous system 290 00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:02,560 to feel calmer and to feel better in my own skin before we start talking about regulation? 291 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:09,720 And so what I love to think about is, you know, if we have an infant that is screaming 292 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:16,800 and crying and they just get very dysregulated and talking isn't going to help them, you 293 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,680 know, and explaining why they don't need to cry isn't going to help them and punishing 294 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,800 them or whatever. 295 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:32,720 But what does help them is holding them, which gives them pressure input, proprioceptive input 296 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,560 or swaddling them and rocking them. 297 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,480 That's vestibular input. 298 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:47,360 So we have this very innate nervous system pattern built into us. 299 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,160 Everybody who has a nervous system has this. 300 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:57,080 And a lot of us use strategies to calm and center the nervous system based on this principle 301 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,080 without even thinking about it. 302 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,040 Like one person might say, oh, riding my bike outside is the best. 303 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:11,360 I just feel really calm and rejuvenated, but I can't ride on a stationary bike. 304 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:12,960 That's not going to do it. 305 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:20,360 Well what they might be saying is, I really need that movement input because vestibular 306 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:25,160 input needs you to move through space like rocking, right? 307 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,600 And then you can, what I love about this is everybody can use these tools. 308 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,200 It's an inherent nervous system thing. 309 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:43,000 So everyone can relate to it and it really lends itself to this detective mindset of, 310 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,880 oh, your nervous system really likes this. 311 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:59,840 And so if somebody is pacing or they're overactive, they're not sitting down, we could say as 312 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,560 a detective, oh, wow, your body really wants a movement now. 313 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,440 How else could you get that? 314 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,920 Let's see if a swing helps you feel better regulated. 315 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:17,400 And you get this partnership, you get this detective kind of thing, and then people learn 316 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,560 how to take care of their nervous system. 317 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:29,600 Otherwise, what happens is we get into this kind of pattern where we try to make sure 318 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:37,320 everything in our external environment and life is just so, so that our nervous system 319 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,320 feels okay. 320 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,760 And we spend a lot of time trying to make sure unexpected things don't happen and loud 321 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,880 things don't happen. 322 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:56,680 And that's fine, but it is impossible to totally do that and it's exhausting. 323 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,320 So adding this element of how are we going to take care of your nervous system today? 324 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,160 You know, how can you get pressure input? 325 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:11,840 Pressure input gives the brain proprioceptive signals and that calms the nervous system. 326 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:18,600 How can we get you the stabular input where the fluid in your ear is moving? 327 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,480 Do you need a rocking chair? 328 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:21,760 Do you need to ride your bike? 329 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,000 Do you need a hammock? 330 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:30,440 And that gives the brain centering input and how does that fit with you? 331 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,200 And so that's part of the really activating thing too. 332 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,360 Let's be a detective, let's partner together, and then let's figure out how to get your 333 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,080 nervous system what it needs. 334 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:53,080 And to use those physical inputs is so important, I think, because talking through other strategies, 335 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:58,680 this reliance on talking first, I think, can be too overwhelming. 336 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,520 You know, let's help your nervous system feel better first, and then we can talk through 337 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:04,520 some things. 338 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,560 Yeah, that's incredible insight. 339 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:14,680 And I think it's unfortunately, it's not considered as often as it should be. 340 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,200 I was thinking about Temple Grand and designing the squeeze machine. 341 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,200 Yeah, exactly. 342 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,200 Yeah. 343 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,720 And it's just so helpful, everything you described. 344 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,560 I like squeezing paper towels in my head. 345 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:28,560 Yes, yes. 346 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:34,640 And that, you know, you sharing that, that gives people ideas, right? 347 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:39,440 It's kind of a creativity based on a revelation. 348 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,840 So we have this revelation that squeezing something feels good. 349 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,240 And then we have this innovation or creative mindset of how else could your system get 350 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,600 that. 351 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:56,800 What kind of effective way, what kind of, how can we really get the most out of that 352 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:57,800 for you? 353 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,600 Yeah, also, as you were describing that, I was thinking that you're giving people an 354 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:11,160 ability to kind of zoom out out of the situation and have a more perspective on what is happening 355 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,960 and what are some other options that I can do. 356 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:14,960 Yes. 357 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,240 Yeah, you need someone. 358 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:27,240 And that's, it's, you know, we're stuck a little bit because we don't have enough experts 359 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,560 who can help someone step back and see the big picture. 360 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,760 And so they're stuck in their own skin and in their own head, you know, and they're like, 361 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,240 okay, what could I do? 362 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,240 But they can't, they can't move beyond that. 363 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,120 And the expert is supposed to say, what I see is this pattern. 364 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,200 Have you noticed this pattern? 365 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,040 And then they'll say, oh, so that links with this. 366 00:31:54,040 --> 00:32:03,560 Okay, you know, you need someone outside and who's knowledgeable enough about the brain 367 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:10,680 and neurology to start to show you pattern, how the pattern works for you and against 368 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,000 you, and to have this creative partnership. 369 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:20,640 So people who are trying to do that on their own, I applaud them, you know, for that self, 370 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,880 that journey to figure out yourself. 371 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:32,080 Ideally, it would be nice to have an expert to come alongside and to say, I'm wondering 372 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:37,560 if you've considered this because this is how neurology works. 373 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,560 And I'm noticing this. 374 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,000 Yeah, that's a whole people can catch onto that. 375 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,920 That's valuable information. 376 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:55,000 So I know in your podcast, you talk a lot about different aspects of life. 377 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,240 So I have a couple that I've really want to ask you about. 378 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:03,280 And the first one is, how about adults and relationships? 379 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,280 Yeah. 380 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:18,760 And what I love about the diagnostic piece, again, is this ability to break some of the 381 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:23,280 misunderstanding about relationships. 382 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:29,280 So you know, we, I gave some parenting examples because that's where I learned, you know, 383 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,720 in parenting my son, but these examples across the lifespan. 384 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:40,960 So you know, how does this pattern and way of interacting impact friendship or dating 385 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,800 or retirement or marriage or kids? 386 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:56,400 And that's another benefit of having someone outside of yourself to say, okay, you're in 387 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:03,400 a new season, you know, so our bodies change over time, our brains change over time, our 388 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,400 chemistry changes and our life circumstances change. 389 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:17,560 So those all kind of coincide and someone could say to you, hey, you know, I think the 390 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:29,320 things that you used to regulate yourself before this relationship, you know, are less 391 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,120 available to you now because you have this schedule or you're with this person, they 392 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:41,160 don't like, you know, interact interacting with that activity or they want more one 393 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,920 on one time. 394 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:50,360 So someone to help partner with you to say, how were you regulating before and are you 395 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,040 getting enough regulation now and how could we shift that? 396 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,440 And then things like communication. 397 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:10,680 So I'm just a firm believer that any characteristic that we have as humans, our strengths need 398 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,320 to be identified. 399 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:19,640 And then we need to understand that our strengths work against us in certain situations. 400 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:25,040 It's not that this characteristic that I have is all good or all bad. 401 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:32,000 It's that it really works for me here, but boy, I can get stuck in this area, you know, 402 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,000 with us. 403 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:38,680 And so, you know, social relationships and communication can have some of that too. 404 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:46,520 So the individual who has that self-knowledge may be able to see in their new relationship 405 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:47,960 how that impacts them. 406 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:57,800 For example, they may be great and love having conversations about very interesting topics 407 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:08,560 and or let's work on this project together or but if they're with a partner who wants 408 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:18,760 to have heart-to-heart conversations and gaze into each other's eyes, that may be fine, 409 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:27,240 but the self-knowledge part can say, you know, my nervous system leans toward task or topic 410 00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:29,000 oriented activities. 411 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:36,560 I see that your nervous system really likes to connect with relational discussions. 412 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,240 And I want to be there for that. 413 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:45,000 But this is how my nervous system leans. 414 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:50,600 So all of us will make sacrifices in a relationship with a partner. 415 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:56,000 And for example, if you're making that sacrifice and you're like, I really want you to get 416 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:01,320 what you need, let's have that relational conversation. 417 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:07,840 I'm going to need some alone time or a bike ride or whatever to regroup after that. 418 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:13,440 You know, so this is me showing up for you. 419 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,840 And I want to do that. 420 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:22,320 I also want to reset my nervous system after we do that. 421 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:28,440 So the ability to know that about themselves and then to have words to wrap around that 422 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,960 to communicate that to somebody else. 423 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,880 And it goes back to that thing that we're always, whether we realize it or not, we're 424 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,120 trying to figure out what that behavior means. 425 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,240 What does it mean that he doesn't want to talk to me? 426 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:48,960 You know, well, it may not mean a whole lot. 427 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:58,240 It may mean that this is how he expresses love in the relationship in this other way. 428 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:04,560 But to be able to start with that knowledge and for the autistic to be able to recognize 429 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:12,440 that in themselves and communicate it, that can be huge because it can break up that tendency 430 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:20,520 to get stuck and to just have kind of a shame or, you know, a relationship where the biggest 431 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,360 communication is you're not living up to my expectations. 432 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,640 That can be very wearying and a big misunderstanding really. 433 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,640 Yeah. 434 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:39,920 There's a lot of almost barriers to being compatible with other people. 435 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,520 Yeah. 436 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:57,240 And if you know what you enjoy the most in relationship, you can consider that when you're 437 00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:01,000 joining with a partner. 438 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:09,120 I think what doesn't work is thinking that all relationships should look the same and 439 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:19,280 then trying to become that person, you know, because our relationship should look like 440 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,160 these people who have a relationship. 441 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:28,520 And I think if you start with your own nervous system and the nervous system of your partner, 442 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:29,640 what makes me tick? 443 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,640 What makes them tick? 444 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,240 What do they need out of a relationship that I don't need? 445 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:35,240 And vice versa. 446 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:38,000 And then are we compatible? 447 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:44,880 Because compatibility may be there with someone else who also loves to talk and do rather 448 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:51,920 than gaze into someone's eyes and, you know, process emotions. 449 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,640 Neither of those approaches are all good or all bad. 450 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:05,800 But you can't consistently give someone all they need emotionally all the time if your 451 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,720 nervous system works in a different way. 452 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:11,920 So starting with the self-knowledge. 453 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,920 Yeah. 454 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:13,920 Yeah. 455 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:19,360 There's a lot of autistic phenotypes have competing goals. 456 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,800 Everybody has competing goals. 457 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:28,680 The more we do one thing, it's going to subtract from us being able to do the other things. 458 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:35,160 But with autism, like with the restrictive, fixated interest and the scheduling and the 459 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,400 difficulties with social communication. 460 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:38,400 Yeah. 461 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:44,160 This is a whole relationship part of something that I personally struggle with quite a bit. 462 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,720 I know that's maybe too personal. 463 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:53,080 But autism came on the radar for me from romantic relationship and coworkers. 464 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,680 So various forms of relationships. 465 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,400 And it was just like, okay, wow. 466 00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,800 I mean, just. 467 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:00,960 Yeah. 468 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:09,880 And I think with romantic partnerships, if you have that self-knowledge, sometimes you 469 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,120 can make choices that are a little outside the box. 470 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:25,680 Like I have couples that do really well, but they each keep their own living space. 471 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,920 And maybe they've been together nine years, you know. 472 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,840 But why do they do well? 473 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,800 They have their own space. 474 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,320 They realize how they work best as a couple. 475 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:45,720 And they're not trying to make their relationship look like someone else's relationship. 476 00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:54,840 I think another thing that happens with relationships can be that over time, there's increasing complexity 477 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,440 in adult romantic relationships. 478 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:04,880 A lot of times because the longer you're with someone, you know, then you're expected to 479 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:11,360 go to weddings with them or meet their family or go to their holiday family vacations. 480 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,840 And maybe you have children together. 481 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:23,000 And this multitasking starts to come into play where it's not just a one-on-one relationship. 482 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:29,440 You have this exponential demand start coming. 483 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:38,760 And that means you're extending yourself in these multiple areas and probably don't have 484 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:44,040 as much access to what regulates you. 485 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:53,320 And it can feel like life just kind of goes on without asking our permission, right, to 486 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,600 expand and change. 487 00:42:54,600 --> 00:43:05,200 And so attention to what, you know, the social media relationship or family looks like versus 488 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,200 what actually fits me. 489 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,040 Because a lot of pressures. 490 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,040 A lot. 491 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,120 Yeah, social comparison and fitting in. 492 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:20,840 A lot of conversation was just fitting in and a lot of early on, a lot of just like 493 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:21,840 modeling people. 494 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:22,840 Right. 495 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,920 Because that's what we're supposed to do and how much conflict that it actually ends 496 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:28,920 up being. 497 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:29,920 Right. 498 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:36,560 It's kind of funny because parents talk about their teens and peer pressure, but we all 499 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,360 feel peer pressure, don't we, at any age. 500 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:46,760 You know, so and so is retiring to the Florida Keys and I don't have that. 501 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:52,040 And so we're always comparing and it doesn't do us much good. 502 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:53,040 Yeah. 503 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,760 As you was describing some of that, it's like, yeah, it makes sense. 504 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:03,880 As you're explaining, we work inward and then work out from ourselves. 505 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:11,440 Because if this isn't broke or this isn't fixed or functioning, then all the entangled 506 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:16,000 social dynamics of life will be off. 507 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,440 That's very powerful. 508 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:25,600 What is your experience with adults and employment? 509 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:32,120 Yeah, that's, that's a difficult thing, isn't it? 510 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,120 Yeah. 511 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,120 Sorry. 512 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:41,520 Yeah, yeah, you're fine. 513 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:49,960 I think there's a whole range of, of how that looks and how people experience that. 514 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:57,800 And I think we're not, we don't have the big picture yet because we don't have everyone 515 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:10,240 diagnosed correctly yet, the people that we have diagnosed, maybe people who've hit a 516 00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:15,960 real difficult season and gone in for more assessment or maybe who have relatives who've 517 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:24,760 been diagnosed or so it's difficult for us to make conclusions about the big picture 518 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,360 of employment and autism. 519 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:38,480 I certainly know that there are autistics, you know, in all levels of, of employment, 520 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:49,320 but having said that, you know, the, the challenge I think can be resiliency. 521 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:58,720 Being in every day, every week, every month, it's, and sometimes, so I think, you know, 522 00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:07,360 you've heard of that term, autistic exhaustion, I think resiliency can be a core challenge. 523 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:14,320 And resiliency can impact relationships and it can impact your job and, you know, the 524 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,400 ability to keep doing all these activities. 525 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:29,280 And so that's what I do hear a lot that it's difficult to stay in the same job, you know, 526 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:37,800 for a decade or whatever and make a living and pay your bills over the long term. 527 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:38,800 Yeah, yeah. 528 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,760 That's a lot of challenges there. 529 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:42,760 Yeah. 530 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:51,200 Just with the scheduling, like B2, the scheduling and sameness and then adding in more social 531 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,400 webs entangled with that. 532 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,840 Yeah, there's definitely a big social component. 533 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:57,840 Yeah. 534 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:05,440 I think that's why helping the autistic understand their nervous system and communicate it to 535 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:11,640 other people, you know, that can be helpful in the work setting as well. 536 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:21,240 And trying to figure out what fits your nervous system the best as far as work and also sometimes 537 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:31,800 making decisions about, you know, not taking the most intense, prestigious job, even if 538 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:39,080 you're brilliant at something that it may not fit your system to work 60 hours a week, 539 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:45,320 you know, it may not fit your system to do presentations in other nations or, you know, 540 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:55,320 there's a point at which caring for your whole system means I'm not going to take that promotion 541 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,360 even though I'm tempted to because it's going to look good. 542 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:04,560 People are going to acknowledge my talent and my skills and I'm going to get more money, 543 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:13,360 but the intensity is going to go up and that really does hurt me in a lot of ways and I'm 544 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:18,560 not willing to pay that price and service to a promotion. 545 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:28,920 But that's again kind of against our American kind of culture of how are you getting better? 546 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,400 How are you, you know? 547 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:43,200 So to shoot for balance and how something fits you is not always applauded in the same way, 548 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:49,560 but I think, you know, it really pays off and for people in a different setting, let's 549 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:56,200 say it's not occupation, let's say it's school, I see this as well like, well, they should 550 00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:07,640 be in all honors classes because they're brilliant, you know, well, yes, they can do the work, 551 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:14,760 but you have to take into account their whole life picture, you know, how much demand is 552 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:21,080 on this person, how much drain to their nervous system, what are we doing to support and fill 553 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,880 their nervous system? 554 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,920 And is there anything left over? 555 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 556 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:35,320 And if we're saying this person, their personhood is important, not just their physics knowledge, 557 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,240 you know, can we support them in self care? 558 00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:47,760 Can we support them with having extra and not being drained to exhaustion before we 559 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,800 feel like, boy, they're really doing a good job? 560 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:59,160 Yeah, there's education, employment, relationships, those three things that we talked about today 561 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:00,680 are very challenging. 562 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:01,680 Yeah. 563 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:08,720 And the insights you gave us is just things that are kind of outside the box that hopefully 564 00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:13,800 people can consider and find some benefits to. 565 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:25,240 Yeah, I think it does in a lot of ways introduce a different worldview, you know, where to 566 00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:32,680 start when we're making life choices and are we prioritizing something that we feel is 567 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:39,000 the greatest good and are we making choices that help us along the marathon or we're just 568 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:48,120 going to sprint for a while and collapse or but again, that can be very against the social 569 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:55,320 media picture, it can be very against the American way of if you want it enough, you 570 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:56,920 go get it. 571 00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,160 And if you don't have it, it's because you don't want it enough. 572 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,040 So it does challenge us. 573 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:09,520 And when we feel ourselves like cringing at the thought of taking regular classes instead 574 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:18,280 of honors or turning down a promotion or whatever, you know, that's a good cue that maybe we 575 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,080 should think through what we value the most. 576 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,280 If I'm going to cringe about that, why is that? 577 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:34,720 You know, let's do some exploring of our own beliefs and why we hold those and whether 578 00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:37,840 they give us the greatest good. 579 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,280 Yeah, well said. 580 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:48,920 Two things before we wrap up. 581 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:59,840 Tell us how we can follow you and get introduced to your work both as in the clinic and share 582 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:04,320 something that you're most excited about recently. 583 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:11,320 So I would direct people to my website really to look at maybe my projects and my work. 584 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,400 So that's adultandgeriatricautism.com. 585 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:19,440 The website just got revamped, so I'm excited about that. 586 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:20,440 It's simpler. 587 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,840 I think it's easier to navigate. 588 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,520 There's a link for the podcast. 589 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,640 There's links for video courses. 590 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,800 There's links for the blog. 591 00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,840 So hopefully it's kind of organized in a way that's user-friendly. 592 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:38,640 You can also contact me through the contact page. 593 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,400 My work in the hospital for diagnosis. 594 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:48,720 One tricky thing about that and it is aligned with what we've been talking about is that 595 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:52,920 I have a four-year wait list. 596 00:52:52,920 --> 00:53:01,680 So professionally, it's really stressful for me as well. 597 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:06,200 You know, like I want to help people. 598 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:13,800 And so my website is really my answer to that, like I can't see everyone in the office, but 599 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:23,600 I can extend some knowledge and thought-provoking ideas through the website. 600 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:30,280 And I think the nicest innovation I have now on the website is the opportunity for video 601 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,600 visits in some geographic areas. 602 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:40,400 So the one thing COVID did that was very nice for us is allowing video visits across 603 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,320 state lines with certain license restrictions. 604 00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,760 So I do have a video visits tab on there. 605 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,400 I've met some great people already through that. 606 00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,680 And so that's a really nice option. 607 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:59,280 And I think there's a nice combination of, you know, lots of free resources and some 608 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:04,560 paid resources and the books and things like that on the website. 609 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,120 Okay. 610 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:15,360 The, I just imagine that the video chats, the video therapy, based off of everything 611 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:20,640 we discussed here is very valuable and is a very efficacy. 612 00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:28,040 I think so because, again, you've got how nice is it to have someone from the outside 613 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,800 that can say, you know what, I would really consider this or I see this pattern. 614 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,560 Because you may not have that expert in your neighborhood. 615 00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:43,360 You know, we've had people from 11 other states travel to our clinic because it's not available 616 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:44,360 locally. 617 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,760 So I want to make that accessible. 618 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:54,440 And again, some changes in the law and what we're able to do from COVID have allowed me 619 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:55,520 to put that on there. 620 00:54:55,520 --> 00:55:02,320 So it's only been on there for like a month or two, but video visits are available and 621 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,200 the information's on the website. 622 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:05,200 Wow. 623 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,200 Wonderful. 624 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:07,200 Wow. 625 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,640 Well, Dr. Reagan, thank you so much and good luck with everything and I'll be following 626 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:11,640 along for sure. 627 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:12,640 Thanks, Ryan. 628 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,080 I appreciate the talk and the opportunity to come on. 629 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:17,080 Yeah. 630 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,080 Thank you. 631 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:24,800 If you're listening to the podcast or listening to the episode, please feel free to leave 632 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,600 a review or ratings. 633 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:34,960 In podcasting, review and ratings are crucial and I very much appreciate your feedback. 634 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:44,800 You can contact me on X at RPS, 47586 or click on the hop link so you can have links to all 635 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,800 the show platforms and contact information. 636 00:55:48,800 --> 00:56:00,320 You can email me info.fromthespectrum at gmail.com and thank you for listening to From the Spectrum 637 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:19,280 podcast.