My guest today is Nicole Rinkon.
Nicole is a board certified physician assistant
graduating from UC San Diego with honors in biology
and special focus on microbiology and genetics.
Nicole continued her health care education
at Western University of Health Sciences, where she
graduated on the Dean's List with a master's degree in physician
assistant studies in 2007.
Nicole is MAPS, Medical Academia of Pediatric
Special Needs, ATTENDEE, and has extensive experience with
pediatric special needs, integrative and functional medicine.
Currently, Nicole works at the Rasignal Medical Center,
which includes Dr. Dan Rasignal and former guest
Dr. Richard Fry. The Rasignal Medical Center
strives to identify what may be causing
abnormal functioning of cells in persons with autism
and other disorders using biomarkers
that are objective, testable, and treatable.
Through functional medicine intervention, Nicole
saw a dramatic change in her family when addressing
basic metabolic needs, gut health, and environmental
changes. Her goal
is to empower and educate her patients
to actualize their ideal cells through medicine and natural
remedies. Through Nicole's work
at the Rasignal Medical Center and her experience,
she has vast information and knowledge about
non-traditional treatments. For that reason,
we plan on having several episodes to discuss Nicole's
findings and share incredible insights to the
public. And now, my conversation
with Nicole Rancon.
Nicole, let's start with your education and professional history
and then the path into autism specifically.
Perfect. Thanks, Ryan. I just want to thank you first, Ryan, before we even get started.
I really appreciate you having me on the podcast and I appreciate you reaching out.
It's an honor to be here and to speak with you and I'm really looking forward to it.
So my experience, so I have an interesting
story. So I'm a physician assistant. I've been practicing medicine
for 17 years now, I believe, and I'll see
2007. Yeah, 17 years.
As a child, just to even go way back further than that, I was a pretty
academic child. I was very good in math. I actually got a scholarship to college
in math. So very, very left
brain there. And I went to UC San Diego
and I loved biology. I love the study of science. I got a bachelor's degree in
biology. Pretty good grades. I ended up going to
PA school at Western University in Pomona.
I was the youngest PA in my graduating class because I just
I'm intense. I just blasted through the program and I was on the dean's
list. So I've always enjoyed academics and being in that world.
I, you know, in the meantime
I got my, you know, PA degree. I met my husband
in PA school. We ended up moving to San Diego
and I ended up getting into the wellness field pretty early on. So I was doing a
lot of just wellness coaching as far as vitamins
supplements. Dietary changes was primarily the focus
so healthy, healthy diet and
then basically after a few years we decided we were going to try and get pregnant.
So my husband and I tried and tried and after a few years
you know we went to the doctor and
tried a few of the medications. Didn't work. Went to a
fertility specialist. And they ended up putting
me on some follicle stimulating hormone and
we had the first time we tried it. Didn't get pregnant.
Second time we tried I got pregnant which
was wonderful and then I had a miscarriage like 10 weeks later.
And it was very, you know, this period was super stressful for my husband
and I and we decided one more time we're going to try one more time.
So I ended up getting pregnant on the third time, third and last
and they found it was triplets which was
super scary, was super amazing
and we ended up, you know, I seen the pregnancy through so I had some ups and
downs with that. I had bed rest
that I had to start I think at 10 weeks. But we made
it to 34 weeks, gave work to the kids. The kids were, so I had
two boys and a girl. They're now 12 years old and they were
developing normally, hitting all their milestones. I was on cloud nine
my life was great. I had my husband and my home and my three kids
and my job and then at about
18 months I noticed my one son
started with a tremor, interestingly in the morning and he was starting to stutter
a little and I thought that's interesting. So we took him to the doctor
and he said, well, maybe he has autism. I don't know. They send us to the regional center
we were getting worked up and then about, but it wasn't too severe
and we didn't know what to think of it. So about six months later at the two year mark
in the summertime, my son,
my other son and my daughter
severely regressed. My son mostly regressed. My daughter
at the same time started having seizures. So here I have these healthy triplets
at two years old they regressed
especially my son that regressed at two. He started
smearing feces all over the wall, absolutely no eye contact.
He had at least 50 words, two word sentences lost all speech.
Just spinning in the corner of the room, I couldn't get him back.
So my daughter, like I said, she started having seizures
and so we were just, I was just devastated at this time and
I really got hit hard. I had some depression
you know, temporarily. I mean, I couldn't get out of bed. I had to take a little
leave of absence from work. And then I did what most parents do
at that time or a lot of parents with kids on this factor. I mean, I just dove
into the research. I said, I'm tired of feeling sorry for myself. This is a, this is, there's something going on
you know. I went to the doctor, they said, well your son
you know, we don't know but he's stimming now so let's put him on
Resperidone. It's the only FDA approved drug and you know
I'm like, but what's wrong with him? You know, why is this happening?
And you know, well, you know, we don't know it's autism. You know, it's a psychological disorder.
And you know, I'm just, me being me, I just didn't accept it. So he said, no,
okay, so I went into the research and I
stayed up till 2am every morning and just looking at studies, looking at studies.
What can I do? And so I, he was diagnosed, they gave him a diagnosis of apraxia.
So I went on to Google apraxia on PubMed
and basically I read
a study, I think it was a double blind placebo controlled study about
fish oil and vitamin E and the combination of helping apraxia.
And it was a pretty big study for the time. So I thought, okay, let's try it. So I gave my son
who was still severely gone at that point from me.
I gave him this fish oil omega 3 vitamin
E and within, I swear it was like a week. He calmed
down, he stopped spinning and he
actually started making eye contact with me again. And this, I mean, it was only within a week. And I
thought, holy cow, like we are onto something. And I felt this huge rush
of energy and like, okay, okay, we can do this. Like, okay, so we're going to keep the vitamin E
and I just, you know, keep the fish oil and I kept going down this rabbit hole.
We added things. I added, I found a trial on eniceedal cysteine and I bought the exact
brand at the dose that they had recommended because I'm a PA. Like I'm going to do this clinically.
And I go down the B12, the methyl B12 and I go down the multi vitamin with the B vitamins.
And so I started adding on these substacks myself
and I was seeing improvement. Now it wasn't miraculous.
My son still didn't have speech, but I, you know, I started,
I realized that maybe there was a fungal component. And so I started treating them with
grapefruit seed extract at the time, which is what I had. And I noticed that
their repetitive behaviors went down. And so I thought, okay, I need help. This is great.
I'm on the right track. And so I ended up going to
the medical Academy of Pediatric Special Needs
conference. And so it's a conference that trains clinicians
how to treat children with autism and neurodevelopmental disorders.
And I was so bold. I just, I walked right into the
conference as my first time there and I'm like, who's the guy in charge? Like who's the man?
Like who's the director? And they're like, oh, that's Dr. Rossignol. They said, great. Where is he?
Does anybody know who he is? I don't even know what he looks like. And they're like, he's over there. So I just like stomped up to him
on the lunch break. I'm like, hey, I'm Nicole Rencon. I'm a physician assistant. I'd like to
work with you. Can you hire me? And he just, he looked at me
and kind of laughed. And he's like, well, do you have a license to practice in California?
He said, yeah. He said, okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Send me your resume. Sure. And then
like that was it. That interview process was over. And so he hired me, you know, and obviously we
communicated more. But I started working for him like two weeks after
that. I ended up putting in my resignation on my old job. I quit. So I was all in. I was going to do autism research, autism
treatments, help my kids help other kids. It's been great. So that kind of starts my story at Rossignol Medical
Center. That was eight years ago. And so yeah, from there, you know, I Dr. Rossignol has helped me with my
own kids. We've done I mean, all the things, well, not all, but almost all the things I've recommended to my
patients, we've tried, we are we are in this, you know, I'm a mother, both of my boys had a moderate to
severe diagnosis of autism at this point. Now that they're 12, my son is one son, the severe son, ironically, has lost his diagnosis.
And then my other son is very mild. And we still have issues, you know, we have some OCD and still some repetitive and social
issues going on. But they're now in general education in seventh grade, they're getting A's and B's. You know, there are no
behavioral issues. I'm very proud of them. And I'm very blessed. I'm very grateful. And I'm frankly, I'm proud of myself
because you know, I, my husband has been so wonderful to I mean, he supported me through this whole process. And so it was
really, and you know, to really dedicate our lives to change the trajectory of our kids future. So the reason I'm here, the short
of it is for my long winded intro, is that I really, I feel grateful, I feel inspired, and I really want to help other
families to know that there are things we can treat that this is not just a psychological disorder that they were
born with, that there's nothing you can do. You know, I don't believe that. I think there's a lot of hope. I think there's a
lot of changes. I think that certain things we may not be able to change, and you can't necessarily project the trajectory of
every child, but there's so much you can do. And so I'm just here to give parents hope, and hopefully, you know, talk more with
you about various treatments that they can do, things they can look at, things they can talk to their doctor about, that really can,
like I said, change their future in a positive way, because the brains only get so long to grow. And obviously the brain is, there's
neuroplasticity, it can change at any age, even at old age. But you know, there are critical windows that really help. So if you get to them
early, there's critical windows, it really helps. You know, it makes it easier. Children typically respond better the younger they are.
So it's important not to wait. If you're on the fence about it, you know, just try something, you know, just start something, you know, and
obviously get help. And I do want to disclaim her too that what I'm about to tell you and in future podcasts is not to be taken as
direct medical advice. So please talk to your doctor about any of these interventions. I'm not your personal clinician. So yeah, please, please
understand it's not to be implemented directly from me. But there are suggestions that you maybe you can look at.
Yeah. For the listener PubMed, she, Nicole reference is an excellent resource for everything that really in medicine. So I've talked about PubMed quite a bit.
So maybe the listener is aware of it. So I have. Tell me about how you discovered the the Omega.
So again, if you look at PubMed, there's actually out of supplements, it's one of the most studied supplements in with double blind placebo
controlled trials and autism. So there's a decent amount of literature. I can't remember the amount of studies. We're currently writing a paper on
supplements and placebo controlled controlled substances. We're doing a review paper Dr. Ross and all my so I'm trying to I think it was maybe 12
but I'm guest I'm eating here. So you know the most studied supplements they have I believe currently for placebo controlled trials are Omega's,
melatonin and vitamin D, I believe have but there's a lot of randomized controlled trials for different supplements as well. But yeah, I just did a PubMed search
and looked and saw, you know, what could be helpful. And there was an article I could pull it up for our next podcast but it's it specifically addresses
apraxia and autism with Omega threes. Okay. Well, I'm so curious about that is I've, I was taught I was, I've learned that Omega and these things like
EPA, DHA, or they're like fiber optic cables to transfer electrons and electrons are so critical for our biology. And I think maybe confusing and underrated or at least a lot of people don't know about
it. Yeah. What is known about regression? So that's a big topic and that I could probably talk for about a half an hour on it but there's there's varying literature.
Dr. Fry and me is the second author and also Dr. Rosgnell wrote a study published actually earlier this year, correlating mitochondrial dysfunction with regression.
So they find that especially mitochondrial respiration has been associated with it in certain kids.
There's also some trials that show that there's regression found with seizures in kids and with epileptic form discharges. So, you know, seizures are again another topic but a lot of kids have comorbid seizure disorder with autism.
Yeah, and then there's also a subset of kids that don't actually have seizure disorder, but they have epileptic form discharges. And they're typically seen at night when the child is sleeping.
So for every kid you want to get a 24 hour EEG or an overnight EEG. And even if you're not seeing seizures, you can often see these spikes in various areas of the brain that aren't normal.
I mean, they're not physiologic. They're not supposed to be there. And so these can correlate with actually autism behaviors and functioning and they're found and actually we're writing another paper on this that this may be associated with a regression as well.
So seizures, epileptic form discharges, possibly correlating now that could have a mitochondrial dysfunction component to it so they may all be related.
And so and there's also some some talk about, you know, parents with, you know, vaccinations, there's a lot of literature that's very mixed on the topic.
So what they found is that, at least from the studies I've found is that febrile regression specifically so if a child has a fever that can be associated with regression after post vaccination.
And I said the literature there's a lot of studies with MMR specifically and the thimerosal adjuvant, the mercury component of it. And there's a lot of literature says it doesn't it's not associated with autism or regression.
Anecdotally, I mean, I hear a lot of patients are not a lot I would say there's a subset of patients that's that say that they come to me and they said yeah they have their second year vaccines or their 18 month. And then a few days later they lost speech.
So, it's hard to know what to make of that I think that the literature is mixed and I think you and I've talked privately about this is that I think there may be a component for vaccinations I'm just going to say it because it's the controversial topic but I
think you know I mean I hate putting it out there but also I mean I think there may be a component to vaccinations and autism, especially with the aluminum adjuvant that's that's recently been added.
There are a lot of studies that correlate autism with metal toxicity and so there's a study that was published in 2014, and it was looking at environmental trends, looking at what we know the incidence of autism is has risen.
Exponentially since the 90s, basically late 80s, mid 90s. So, the author looked at what toxicants what environmental exposures are we having that have been increasing commensurate with the rate of increasing autism, and the author postulated that it was the aluminum
adjuvants in the vaccines that have been increasing core that correlated with the curve of autism, and they also correlated glyphosate, which is roundup, and that's a brand name roundup but it's glyphosate that they put in to the foods, and, and specifically a lot of the seed oils
wrapping it back around to your omega three fatty acids. So, omega so a lot of these children when they study them. They found that many kids on the spectrum are deficient in omega threes and specifically dha that are found in fish oil and so and a lot of these kids have an overburden of omega six.
So, if you look at the, the glyphosate I bring it I bring it around because you know our diet is mostly composed of these omega six fatty acids and these seed oils, which may be inflammatory in and of itself but then when you combine roundup which are I'm sorry glyphosate, which is an a very potent antibiotic in
its own sense. So, when you study that the the toxic effects of glyphosate you find that it actually selectively reduces lactobacillus in the gut, and it increases clusterity of species.
And we see that exact profile and a lot of children with autism. We see that there's lack of bifidol lack of lactobacillus and a lot of them have, you know, see difficile, a lot of them. And so, you know, this is a profile we I mean,
there can be very severe in these kids and then it skews propionic acid.
And basically causes autistic behaviors even in mouse models.
This is how they induce autism and mouse models is that they give them propionic acid which is a clusterity of byproduct. So we kind of can correlate that these gut changes are increasing behavioral changes.
And that can be correlated with the glyphosate. Now, it's all speculation and this is where you know but this is where some of the literature is going and people are looking at this.
So, anyway, the full circle of regression is that there I think there's multi factorial issues here. And I don't think it does the service to the autism community and the medical community at large to give a simple answer to say, Oh, it's it's the vaccines, or it's roundup, or it's, you know, I mean when
when the autism first came out they used to blame like they called it refrigerator mothers, you know, it's like, Oh, it's the mother's fault they weren't loving enough with her children I mean it's really folly to blame one specific thing when we can test it and see that there are metabolic issues.
There are microbiome issues there are mitochondrial issues there are inflammation issues lack of key fatty acids and vitamins and minerals and so many of this is you know, fairly simply corrected as well. So that's why I'm here.
With you dialing in specific supplementations and kind of correcting each one of those kind of items that you mentioned, I think most of them are a lot of them were types of the GI gastrointestinal.
So, your your history and your experience even gives you insight and information on this specific treatment.
What is it like working at Raskinok Medical Center.
And how does it kind of set set apart from other.
Yeah, interventions.
It's a that's a great question yeah I really love it.
Again, I, you know, I met Dr. Ross gnom working with him over the last eight years.
And, you know, we're a, we consider ourselves kind of a functional medicine integrative medicine clinic and what that means is that instead of just treating a symptom, or looking at one part of the body, you know, like, oh, you know, so for example autism is typically
it's a DSM it's a psych diagnosis, right. So it's a psychological diagnosis and so what we know that just if we were to just treat them with psychological meds, respiratory don't you know anti dopamine or pro serotonin or whatever.
It really doesn't address any core symptoms in the sense that these kids. Yeah, may reduce behaviors and maybe the scores will improve but they're not.
Your metabolic profile doesn't change they're not actually improving their, their function of their cells the function of their metabolism the function of their mitochondria.
So that's where functional medicine comes into is how are these things functioning in the body. And how can we optimize that because if you fix the core problems with with the you know the immune system and the you know all these, like the microbiome.
Then the kids actually get better without even without having to address the neurotransmitters because you're you're fixing the underlying root cause. So that's kind of the premise of our practice I love practicing this way.
It's very, it's very holistic and looking at all the body systems and how like you said how the gut or the diet interferes with the brain interferes with the mitochondria interferes with neurotransmitters and so you get to really play.
You get to put on your, your scientific doctor hat and really every visit is different when I see each patient every every visit is tailored.
When I see a patient.
We, we don't have like a protocol like oh this is what we do and this is how you do it. No, I mean really it's tailored to every kid's needs. What are the symptoms we're seeing.
And autism is a very, you know, heterogeneous disease it's very, it's very varied. It's very different and how it presents for every child or adult. And so we really have to target individual systems.
And so I can talk about that process Ryan if you wanted to a little more in depth.
First of all, I just have a comment that like these supplements that you're, you're providing instead of, and I'm glad that you brought up the psychological drugs as an alternative because the supplements are upstream of like what synthesizes proteins that make the neuro transmitters.
Instead of blocking them or manipulating them at like the synaptic level or the vesicle level or the uptake, etc. You're helping them create the the proteins and these neuro modulators and neurotransmitters in a more organic way in a more functional way.
So for example, yes, absolutely. So for example, I wanted to bring this up because I think one of the biggest things that we can do to help kids right now with autism is folate.
And, you know, there's many, there's different forms of folate.
But kids on this autism spectrum typically have problems with methylation and methylation is part of a folate cycle and and it helps produce neurotransmitters specifically and so kids have kids have what you mentioned in talking previously with me.
And MTHFR deficits, they say that, you know, most kids have at least 25 to 50% deficits if you're on the autism spectrum, I rarely see and I do see them sometimes but I rarely see a kid that does not have an MTHFR mutation with autism.
So that means that they're not methylating folate properly and without this folate methylation, they're they're not going to properly produce appropriate neurotransmitters and also detoxification like glutathione.
A lot of these things that are really important for neuro development at a critical age. And there's also something called folate receptor antibodies that up to 80%, 70 to 80%, depending on the trial you look at of kids on the autism spectrum have positive folate receptor
antibodies. And so what that means is that their, their bodies blocking there's two different kinds of antibodies. But in either case their bodies blocking folate from getting into the brain active folate and getting into the brain.
So, what we find is that most kids are have these antibodies, and they're responding positively the trials are really good.
As far as treating core symptoms autism when giving them high dose folate, and it's just folinic acid. So it's not folic acid is synthetically made folinic acid is just the unmethalated portion that the brain, the body can take up and then cross the blood
brain barrier to help treat what we call cerebral folate deficiency. So maybe a lot of the core symptoms autism, at least in part, or cerebral folate deficiency. So one supplement at a high dose to treat that, you know, and also to treat the methylation
in different combinations is it methylated is it not how much do we give of each, but just that one simple supplement can really change like you said the downstream effect of how we make neurotransmitters how we detoxify our body.
And so we're really treating a root cause that will then in turn help the mitochondria help help the help the neurotransmitters help the gut function help your metabolism you know help.
You know all these immune function. So it's really it's really awesome to to start at the root of the tree.
Yeah. For my understanding is this methylation process it's circular. And it's also dependent on methionine and amino acid, a very special one. This is where all protein synthesis and DNA sequencing, I should say, start.
And it's kind of like these two circular things on a bicycle. And yeah, I vision as a bicycle whereby if one's not running in the circular fashion, then the other process is going to be off.
Yes. And the byproduct of the of on the downstream of that bicycle the bottom of that bicycle wheel if you look at the diagrams as often, like I said, Sistine and the glutathione as well.
Yeah.
So, so you're you're getting this. And there's more it's more complicated than this but just the city's sake.
You're interfering with the, the neurotransmitter the methionine portion of it and you're also really impairing the glutathione component of it which is the body's master antioxidant it's, it's the master, you know, grabber of toxins if you will.
And these kids typically are low in glutathione and likely, you know, as a result of they typically have a Sistine deficiency as well. So I will often give some in a CELS Sistine or some kind of sulfur support.
But, you know, in essence, if you optimize these few cycles, you know, if you optimize the folic acid cycle you optimize the Krebs cycle which is the, the citric acid cycle.
You optimize the mitochondric, the electron transport chain for mitochondrial functioning, you know, I mean, once you kind of look at these, these core things that are really driving the cell for energy production and, and health and protection, then things just get better.
So, you know, and again, every kid is varied and there are some, we do know that there are also some DNA changes that we have seen, particularly with mitochondrial DNA.
So there are a lot of mitochondrial DNA increased copy number variants basically some duplicates and there's things that we've seen that are that can change.
But it doesn't, it's not, it's kind of a subset of autism and I don't think that it certainly represents the majority.
Yeah. So, so there are multiple things to look at.
What I'm, what I'm hearing and learning about the approach here is you're starting at the very upstream process, the very start of the process that if this is abnormal, all of these downstream processes are going to be off.
This explains why there are so many autism and XYZ autism and dyspraxia autism and allergies eczema, the GI problems.
This, this is all getting to the bottom of what people need to know.
We need to go upstream and not at this downstream levels. It's not helping.
Absolutely. And then yeah, one study I believe, I mean, I think it was from the CDC or some kind of a health NIH maybe guideline was saying that the average child diagnosed with autism has four core morbidities on average, in addition to the autism
diagnosis, functional constipation and ADHD and, you know, yeah, allergic rhinitis and eczema, you know, so yeah, there's, it's not just a neurologic disorder.
And we see that.
I think that's why a lot of research now is coming out about the risk of developing Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, because all of these downstream or these upstream processes are that's responsible for cell development and the nervous system development is already kind of off.
So they're more susceptible to those aging.
Yes.
Problems.
Yes.
Yeah, I mean, I have a, I have a family history of Parkinson's. And then I have my children with autism. I have a sibling with Guillain Bray.
And so looking around, I'm thinking, there's probably some underlying related thing, even though they're different presentations and, you know, it's very odd because in previous to this, we didn't have any history of this like, you know, previous to my, my parents generation.
You know, it's not like this was a thing in my family for seven generations. You know, so it's just odd that we're kind of looking at this. And I think in my family's case, I think a lot of it, the cornerstone is mitochondrial dysfunction.
And I think that's why, you know, my kids regressed. There were several things going on at the time when my kids regressed that I can kind of point to.
But I, you know, I don't know if you want me to share my family story, but just personally, I know that my kids had a copper dominance and we see this a lot in autism. So there's a there's a very skewed increased copper to low zinc ratio and they're supposed to be at a fairly similar ratio in neurotypical individuals.
So copper dominance is one of the number one findings that they find with metal opothese and kids with on the spectrum. So my kids hair was red. I mean, looking back, my daughter and my son, I mean, they were redheads.
I mean copper redheads. And I remember thinking my husband, I would talk about, oh, why are they red? Wasn't that cute? We're not because he's my house is Hispanic. He's got black hair.
I'm, you know, I'm, you know, Italian and I have brown hair. And so we're like, well, look at how cute our kids are redheaded. And now looking back, you know, they were probably severely copper dominant because when I started testing them, they were really zinc deficient.
And so that probably set the tone.
You know, and then, you know, at the time as well, we had just to wrap this around we actually, I thought it was interesting that my kids all regressed at the same time and I thought well there has to be something environmental and I was young and I wasn't in the space yet and I was, I didn't realize we had a water leak in my bathroom downstairs.
And we kind of let it sit there for a while. The back of the bathtub wall was getting a little squishy and thought, oh, okay, okay, let's bring somebody out. And we brought in a plumber and they opened up the whole wall and I'm sure that there was just a ton of block mold back there because it was right around that
time when we opened up the wall and we didn't properly remediate it, you know, we didn't, we didn't, you know, wall anything off or move out while they're doing it. And I was around that time that our kids got really sick.
And I thought, oh, I bet it was a huge dose of mold exposure on top of everything else that was going on. And it was part of it too.
And I noticed like I was telling you they had a big fungal overgrowth at that point that I had to kind of treat. And so once we properly remediated it symptoms did get a little better.
And it wasn't actually, ironically, it wasn't really till we moved out of that home two years later that my son started speaking again. Now, I don't know if it was moving out of the home or all of the interventions because we were doing a lot at that time with
Ross Aignal that really brought his speech back.
But there's yeah, there's a lot to look at and there's a lot environmentally, you know, I think, I think a lot of these things play play apart.
Yeah. Things like Alzheimer's was 1910 whenever I hit medical literature.
Autism 1943 for canner. Like, we're right. All of these things just appeared.
Which is very interesting.
What is it like working alongside Ross and all and Richard Fry and how that accelerates your ability to learn.
Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, these guys are really smart. And I, I'm always trying to pry information from them.
They're there ironically for as much as as prolific as they are writing papers, they're kind of short winded with conversation. So, and you know, I'm like the chatter in the group.
I'm always trying to pry info from them. But yeah, they're, they're, they're very intelligent. And like I said, when it comes to explaining mitochondrial function and things, I mean, and cell biology, you know, these, these are the guys to talk to.
I mean, I have a basic understanding of the function. But I'm more, you know, I do all of the research or not all of it, but I do a lot of the research. So I'm the one that's kind of scouring the trials reading them, you know, aggregating the data for them, presenting it to them.
And they usually do the write ups and kind of the, the finishing touches. But I learned something new every day. I mean, I'm doing, you know, autism research and I literally my husband gets tired of hearing about it because I'm just like, did you know this and this and that?
It's just so fascinating. You know, there's so much out there to learn. So it's, it's a, it's a fantastic opportunity. I, I do part time research for Roscoe Medical Center and then I see patients part time as well.
Yeah. As a PA, having that insight to the research is very, it's different. A lot of PAs, to my understanding, you don't see a lot of PAs on papers in like nature or neurobiology of disease and all of these wonderful journals.
Yeah. Well, PAs, you know, their, their structure, I mean, their, their function in, in the modern medical world is really to be a clinician is to see patients to help ease, I think, some of the healthcare burden that, you know, we had, you know, there's not, you know, the number of clinicians or physicians is going down.
So, I mean, I think their primary role is to see patients. And I think a lot of PAs are very well intentioned. I mean, I love my, my colleagues. I've went to school with some really good hearted people. I find that they're very down to earth.
And they really just want to help people. I'm, I'm a little bit different. You know, I'm just, I've always been kind of a nerd at heart. And I just, I really like the study of science. And so, and I just find it fascinating in addition to my like personal interest because of my family.
But, you know, I think most, like I said, I think most PAs are well intentioned. They just don't go through the training, maybe because of lack of time. And I think it's mostly because employers don't encourage this. You know, the modern medical model is not following this functional medicine model.
And I think that we, because we are, you know, we're just a niche private practice, you know, we're not part of Kaiser or some of these, you know, Blue Cross or these other conglomerates, we're just here to practice medicine the way we want to.
But most PAs are controlled by protocols. They're, you know, if you have, you know, if you have a, you know, headache, then we're going to do this or that, and then we're going to give them this med.
We're not really, they're not looking at, well, why do they have a headache? Is it histamine intolerance? Is it food allergies? There's something else, you know, like what are we, what's the, what's the trigger? And that's just not how PAs school is taught.
And I think it's really just this disease drug, disease drug, disease drug. And, you know, and a lot of these things are very topical. And some of these things are effective. I mean, we prescribe meds. We do. And I think that there is a place for medications. I'm grateful I'm a PAs.
But really, what is the medication doing and why and how could it be treating a core symptom?
Or, you know, how can we assist in the functioning of this person while we're treating the core symptoms? Because sometimes, you know, it'll take, I mean, it took, took my kid like almost 10 years to lose his diagnosis.
And it took me like eight years. So I mean, what can we do in the meantime to help him function while we're help detoxing his body and helping his, you know, his metabolism and things like that. So there's a place for that.
But yes, the medical model teaches in a way that does not know how to approach autism. And I think that when we specifically, you know, when I'm here telling everybody like, there is a way to approach autism that is very medical and that is also very critical thinking.
And that it is, it is not just a psychological diagnosis. And we can see this in the body of literature that is vast. And so I think it takes, you know, a lot of curiosity and time and employers like Dr.
Ross, ignore Dr. Fry that are willing to, you know, pay me to do research because, you know, I have a family, I have to make money. But I want to do this research. I want to do the hard work.
I want to figure it out, you know, and so it's a nice to have people that are out there supporting this community that are like, yes, let's all pooling together. We'll all figure this out. We're in this for the, for the betterment of humanity, for the betterment of our kids.
Because I believe that, you know, we all have, you know, a God given right to health. I think that, you know, I think I believe this, like, I don't think that that we should be sick and that and that, you know, our water or food or these systems, you know,
should be just putting band-aids on things, you know, I, I want to see everybody well, and I'm going to do whatever I can to that to that end, you know, I'm not a big fan of the medical paradigm with that prescription first approach and not finding root cause like,
like, like your practice and residential medical center. Yeah. It's just the way it ought to be. And you said two things there that really captured me because I say this quite a bit, but it's not relevant.
But you said critical thinking and curiosity. That's the master combo. If you really want to learn.
Well, this is the scientific method. I mean, this is this is what science used to be. This is what I love about science. You know, because I'm very like analytically minded. And so I like math, I like science and I but I like the curiosity of I like the thought
experiments of well, what if it's this, what if it's this driving this and not driving that. Okay, what are the studies about that. Oh, okay, somebody's done that. Maybe we should do a study on this or, you know, it's really that curiosity combined with just where are we at who whose shoulders
which giants shoulders can we stand on to really elevate our level of knowledge and of course apply that in a in a way that is meaningful that the people are meaningfully gaining skills and gaining health and gaining longevity and expanding the edges,
expanding the like you say expanding the edges. Yeah, let's keep expanding those edges, you know, and I love science. I think it's, I think it's fabulous. I couldn't imagine me. I was so bored and in high school. Oh, history was such a drag for me.
I was like, I don't this is not my thing. My son is the same way he just hates it. And I'm like, you know, honey, we got to do it. I get it, you know, and he struggles in school because he's very science focused too. So it's some, it's just an analytic mind.
It's, and it's a beautiful thing when you can apply it towards something meaningful, like I think you're doing, I'm doing, let's spread the word, let's, let's do, you know, let's talk about it.
So what is happening?
You've definitely taught me to take a step back whenever I see a physician assistant to maybe not all of them are prescription first approaches. And you even said that they're often that's the protocol that they have to follow, which is, you know, it's, I mean, that's,
that's unfortunately the world that we're in. I mean, if I don't follow certain protocols in a primary care practice, you know, I can be, I can be, you know, sued or I can be brought to the medical board for negligence, you know, oh, you didn't prescribe this statin for this person with high cholesterol.
And it's like, well, you know, you can tell me, I think this I think that, you know, you know, perhaps they have mitochondrial dysfunction symptoms and I don't think it's appropriate and all these things.
You know, because, because statins in implicate ubiquinol in mitochondria. Exactly.
People should know that.
And so exactly. And so, you know, if I were to put somebody on a statin, I'd probably throw in, you know, ubiquinol in there.
But if you're severely deficient, and you're having, you know, problems with the, the electron transport chain in general and your cells, then yeah, it might really affect you you might get some severe muscle cramps or fatigue or things that you know.
Yeah, so you know, it's, it's not really.
I've not talked about there's just protocols that that fit this model. And there's not a lot unfortunately of critical thinking, especially when most PAs have to see, you know, five, six patients an hour. I mean it's kind of out of control you walk in there.
And, and it's unfortunately in my experience because I've been doing this 17 years, it's been getting worse, you know, you know, you used to be able to, you know, kind of take your time and you could build for a few things but now over things like maximize the billing hurry you got five minutes to be
able to get a chart and this and that. And now the kind of the standard of care is to have a medical assistant follow you around and chart for you because you need to be able to see more patients to be more profitable.
And so it's just this rat race and most clinicians I know are really tired for really burned out there. They're, like I said, I think they have a good intentions but the system that they're operating and now is, it's very difficult to be heart first to really care because
they don't have enough time their hands are tied what they can do there's too much peer pressure.
And, and there's not enough knowledge I mean no one knows any I mean most clinicians pediatricians today still say well there's just, there's not enough evidence about autism there's not enough evidence you know we don't have any clinical
we don't we don't have any clinical trials and you know we just don't know what it is and it's just unfortunately that's just ignorance. It's not true.
And that's, and, and, and I don't blame them because you know they're so busy I mean this is why it's nice to have a niche this is why it has a specialty like we are a pediatric special needs I mean we do treat ADHD and OCD and pans pandas.
You know other kind of comorbidities but it's primarily autism in the practice.
And I will note to that another great thing that that we do that I like what we do is that we, we look at the mothers to so I do preconception care as well.
A lot of the stuff is like well, we found that the moms have a lot of these issues to begin with.
And so we'll do an evaluation if a mom's working to get pregnant again like what, what's what what happened, you know what did you do during your pregnancy okay let's not do that again.
So we don't do this at full level had you were in general but you had put an extra metabolic織
final and plant Charles Batty to get along well.
Or even we don't need it that much ETA med you parahertz now.
She probably needs extra methane folate, like that's a great thing, vitamin D, we probably should put her on some, you know extra, you know, we have we have kind of full, you know protocol or just kind of general.
This is like the environment of the pregnant mother has changed so much over the last 50
to 100 years.
Yeah.
It's just like, okay.
Yeah.
We need to be aware of that.
Yeah.
It's very unfortunate.
I mean, there's a lot of maternal stuff that's going on.
And it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know,
it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, you know,
there's a lot of maternal studies that saying that, you know, that air pollution.
So 2.5 parts per million air pollution exposure increases your risk of autism and, you know,
during pregnancy, maternal SSRI use, anti-depressant use increases the risk of autism.
Yeah.
Like I said, hypothyroid, PCOS, vitamin D deficiency.
There's a lot of things we can look at that correlate with maternal health.
And that's kind of why just to kind of full circle about, yeah,
they know these vaccines, for example, maybe being a part of it,
but maybe not being the whole part is I've had several families.
Like I had a family that they had a child with autism, the mother.
And, you know, and then she vaccinated him and she swore it was the vaccines,
which, you know, I believe her, you know, I mean, I never tell patients.
No. When they tell me like, this is what I think it is.
I say, okay, let's investigate that.
I mean, it's not my, I'm, I want to look at other things as well.
But I, you know, I believe people as it were.
And so we look at that and I say, okay, you know, we talk about it.
And she kind of disappears for a while.
I hadn't seen the kid and then she comes back a couple of years later and she's
like, oh, I had another kid and we didn't vaccinate him at all.
Not one vaccine for this whole, for this child and he has autism.
And so she was really upset because she swore that was the only thing.
And, and I think, you know, I kind of tried to convince her, you know,
that we, hey, let's do some maternal testing as well.
If you want to have another child, you know, let's look at you.
And I hate to say that to mothers as a mother, like with three kids, I don't,
you know, I parents get so upset and I'm not blaming the moms because gosh,
I had my own, my own time of blaming myself and what did I do?
And I shouldn't have taken that Tylenol or I shouldn't have done, you know,
we have all these would've should've cut a moment.
But it's, it's the mothers love, these mothers love their babies.
I, I believe that and it's nobody's fault.
And I think, you know, we need to look at everybody's health.
You know, maternal health is very important.
And by the way, sorry to keep expanding, but also paternal health is important.
So the increase, the age of the father increasing age actually increases
a risk of autism as well.
So, so that, so, so father's health matters too.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I know I'm throwing a lot of truth bombs.
No, it's just like, it's like you're preaching to the preacher now, you know,
it's like, it's like, oh my goodness, I have an episode on autism research
and a proposal for research.
And it's just, I think it could do something.
And I don't know, there's a lot to the light story and how humans use light
because of that electromagnetic field, both the sunlight and artificial light.
There's electrons and magnetism attached to it.
And everything with mitochondria is the electron transport chain.
And it's a lot of magnetism with the iron software clusters and that spinning
fo head that's producing out the ATP, a lot of magnetism there.
And that's why like iron is so important for hemoglobin.
It's all magnetic.
Yes.
But I mean, that will, it's tough for people to comprehend that because they don't,
they don't care to know that.
Well, I think a lot of it, and I can't speak for you, but I know that I'm very much in this world.
And so I know, I think that some people with autism, not all of course, but have like a sixth sense.
So I've always been really sensitive to fluorescent lights and a lot of these LED lights.
And it really is neuro stimulating for me.
I have a very hard time like in certain lighting situations.
And I also have, I have had periods in my life where I've had hard time with EMF as well.
You know, there were points in my life where I could tell I was next to a router and I turn off my wifi every night.
And I, yeah, oh yeah.
And I absolutely, I mean, I feel like at points, not always,
but I can feel these things and I feel like my son can feel them as well.
Like my kids, they are very sensitive and I'm very, I'm very aware of how important the sunlight is.
This is why I'm like still kind of tan because I make our kids go outside.
I'm like, we're going to go outside and they go now, you know, because of the screens, but I make sure my kids are tan.
We get at least an hour to a sunlight a day.
It's very important to me.
And I think that it is, it is a baseline of health.
I mean, in addition to vitamin D that it's producing, there's a whole cascade of anti-microbials and anti-inflammatories that the sunlight, I mean, I think you're, you're on to something.
We're meant to be in the sun.
I mean, we're not meant to be in a box and made of chemicals and fluorescent lights.
And so, yeah, it'd be interesting to hear what you have to say on a paper or looking that up.
I mean, I absolutely believe that there's a lot of forces, of course, we know we can't see and that are affecting us super directly.
I mean, that's not a, that's not voodoo science.
That's, that's, that's real science.
That's a lot of people don't know about the different wavelengths in light.
Like light has wavelengths and how our human biology takes those wavelengths, what they do with those wavelengths.
Yeah.
And that's, it's missing something you mentioned earlier about tailoring to each individual or.
Yeah.
Client, patient, child is the, can you talk a little bit about the comprehensive evaluation process?
Yeah, and I, I will absolutely.
And I have a whole another talk that I've given a presentation on this through Taka, which is, it's like talkinnow.org.
But anyway, if you, it's an hour long and it talks about my comprehensive evaluation of what it includes and it goes into in detail.
Obviously, we don't have an hour now, but I, it is posted on my ex profile under Nicole at Nicole Ron Compierre.
It's also posted on my website, which is www.nicholrincon.com.
But to just start out, when I see a patient, the first thing that I personally look at is how is there detox functioning because, you know, when you throw in a bunch of
novel interventions to these kids, a lot of times, unfortunately, we see that there are a lot of toxicities, either, you know, metals or molds or pesticides or things, you know, that, that there's an issue.
And so I first evaluate how is there, there constipation or, you know, how is there bowel movements because a lot of these kids are constipated and I find that that's really a key factor.
You know, so we will make sure to back up the four ways your body really eliminates actually excretes toxins is feces, so bowel movements urine, sweat, and exhalation to breathing.
And so we need to make sure these are being optimized, you know, if you're not urinating at drinking enough not urinating enough, you're going to have a problem with any kind of protocols that we implement because a lot of things that we're going to be doing are stimulating your body's
response to, to improve. And oftentimes, if the detox pathways aren't optimal, then the kids are not going to have a good response. They're going to say, Oh my gosh, Nicole, you made me worse, and they're going to leave and they're not going to be happy.
And, you know, we just pushed them too hard too quick. So basically making sure that they're having at least one to two daily bowel movements, I really like oxy powder. It's like an ozonated magnesium to help stimulate the bells.
And so the kids that are constipated, which most of them are, I find, making sure they're drinking good quality water and frequently. So I have, I'm a big fan of reverse osmosis water.
We have one in our house. I think that they're a great alternative to certainly, you know, not drinking tap water. Yeah, that's a fluoride fluoride but also I mean, you know, there's a website called what is I think it's EWS.
And it's probably it's, you know, the water in your public water system, the chemicals. So I mean, you can look and mines has a ton of arsenic and it's got, you know, nitrates and nitrites and chromium way above the upper limit and it's got even uranium.
I mean, this is like stuff that we're drinking, you know, so and you're sure anyway. So getting in our row.
You know, in all my shower heads always put at least a carbon filter over my shower heads to flow out to kind of get rid of some of the chlorine and you know, making sure that they're they're getting enough sweat so they're exercising ideally out in the sunlight.
And then they're exhalant the exhaling so part of that is the exercise.
So, you know, basically optimizing those functions first before I do anything.
But then typically I will get some basic blood work. And I don't want to go into like every single test because like I said that's an hour long but a lot of it is.
We can look at methylation like mth fr genes. I look at, you know, basic stuff like anemia is iron levels, liver function kidney function.
We're looking at amino plasma amino acids and we're looking for mitochondrial markers. Sometimes we'll get a lactic acid for that. We'll look at alanine lysine ratio you can get a coq 10 level.
We'll look at carnitine you can look at both acyl carnitine in total free carnitine. Again, which is a whole nother discussion but carnitine levels are frequently low and easily treated.
You know vitamin D, some immune function some kids that are always sick I get an IgG subclass IgA which looks at kind of gut immune function is it low is it high you have SIBO or lack of diversity so there's a ton we can do just even a blood work that's typically covered by insurance which is really nice.
Always but usually. And then I'll get a, I would I mentioned zinc, zinc super important to I love testing for RBC zinc and magnesium for minerals.
And then we'll get a stool analysis so a lot of these kids have fungal overgrowth, either in their upper intestine lower intestine both a lot of gram negative bacteria so you see a kid with a lot of inflammation I'm thinking okay probably gram negative bacteria and the colon that creates that LPS production lipo polysaccharides.
And sometimes we'll see kids with a lot of proteas, merabilas or Klebsiella or Citrobac these crazy really kind of toxic bacteria. So we can treat that.
We see in the stool analysis you could see if they're under producing digestive enzymes, or if they just have like Frank inflammatory bowel like indicated of like Crohn's disease, celiac disease things like that I see sometimes.
And what's called a urine organic acid test, where it looks for metabolites in the urine of certain bacteria, and of mitochondrial function by products. And so, this is oftentimes how you can find C diff because see, costorted difficile won't culture,
but it's generally on on a stool test because it's it's an anaerobic bacteria and when you're introducing it to stool it's an aerobic environment. So it won't grow in an aerobic culture and you think oh they don't have it but they're just not testing for it the right way.
So you have to get an organic acid test to rule out C diff. And you know then you treat that, you know, so, like I said there's a lot of in that organic acid test you could look for mold metabolites if they have a ton of these fungal markers that are maybe aspergillus markers
on you know candida markers and you go okay they've got some serious fungus on board.
And then what else will I usually get I'll usually try to convince him to get it overnight eeg that was a little hard, but because the parents the kids have to wear a cap and they have to sleep on it.
There are some outpatient services that are really good that that can do it for the kid and they can do it in the comfort of their own home or or at a hotel instead of going into the hospital.
Because looking for seizures is important and treating seizures can actually help the behaviors as well and the functioning of the brain decreasing inflammation certainly.
The other thing that I love I always test for on the blood is a folate receptor antibody test like I mentioned earlier.
That's a private test you have to send to a private lab so insurance won't cover it but.
But those are crucial like I said up to 80% of kids have high folate receptor antibodies and they found that the higher the levels.
The more severe autism symptoms generally are and then also the better they respond to leukovirin which is the.
It's just a prescription for linic acid high dose for folate essentially so higher the titers more sick but they also respond better to to leukovirin so I've seen some super huge gains with just that treatment alone.
Wow.
Yeah, I mean it's it's really good stuff like one one like kind of a one size fits all and you know as far as parent rating scales and and the the double blind placebo studies back this up.
I mean the literature is across the board positive and it's it has very little side effects.
I mean it's very well tolerated and anything you don't need you urinate out so it's it's it's kind of you know it's kind of incredible that's my that's been my my kind of.
One of my favorite treatments because it just seems to be effective.
And what else do we measure you know we can do other things we can look more specifically in a mitochondrial dysfunction like a mito swab it looks at the.
Electron transport chain kind of complex functioning looks at like complex one complex three situates in place but you know a lot again when you see a new patient it really you want to look at this is kid look like mito you know because if he has really low muscle tone really poor growth.
You're thinking maybe it's mito dysfunction.
But if he's just sick all the time we're thinking maybe or immune or maybe the parents are like his stool is just awful and it's been awful and like we can't seem to get it anywhere near awful you know.
And so you kind of guide what we need to target first you know because based on like what are their most severe symptomology and you know.
And we take it stepwise you know.
Yeah so you're approaching this from a different perspective from somebody like in a ABA or mental health or a psychological assessment type thing where they don't really get answers they just get an answer of diagnosis yes or no.
And you know I mean to be fair I mean you know I've talked to Dr. Fry about this not too long ago and he's like you know Nicole you know what the best treatment is and it's like what okay.
Give me this truth bomb he's like oh it's the kitchen sink approach so there was a study that you know kids that basically did all the interventions for the longest period of time had the best recovery so and I do believe that as far as ABA.
You know some parents say it's cruel because the kids are you know if they if they don't like it or they're you know not high functioning and they're not getting it can be very upsetting you know and it's probably not the right treatment if you're feeling that way about it.
But the studies do show that it helps in general it does help functioning I mean the scores are there as far as controlled trials that it can help.
So you know what I tell parents is just try everything do everything you know to do do the exercise therapy which can be shown to be good do the probiotics do the do the ABA or the OT you know put him in early school get him in socialization groups you know do the floor time
and you know come see me let's let's talk about your diet we got change your diet your water your exercise your you know let's let's try some meds if we're not getting there let's you know and so you just kind of do this.
And then you know if it's not fitting if something's not fitting take it out and you know but if but you know it seems to unfortunately or fortunately be dependent a lot on kind of the amount of effort you put into it you know.
If you're just like we tried a couple supplements it didn't do anything or you know like you know and you know and then some kids that don't you know not all kids make all the gains that other kids do but.
And I understand I mean these parents are really tired and they're they're exhausted and it's very financially consuming sometimes and.
I think these things are an alternative though that could give them hope and provide answers at least get them off of the.
The standardized path that is very.
Inconsistent and provide them with something else different alternative and I just can't get over like we mentioned earlier about going upstream and.
Investigating all these biological processes yeah this is so fascinating it's really fun I'm here to tell you I really enjoy it.
Because this is where it's at this is what this is where the autistic phenotype starts.
Yes and all of those co-morbids and it's the future of medicine it really is.
It's the way people want to be treated you know like want to be medically treated you know and it's the way that it's appropriate and it's certainly the way that worked for my family and.
I mean we focus on autism in our clinic but you know yeah I mean there's so many other metabolic diseases that could be treated very similarly the way we do this.
You know between you know diabetes and like you said Alzheimer's and.
You know just a slew of thyroid disease things like that you know I mean a lot of this goes back to the functional medicine the functioning of the cells.
Yeah.
And how they all integrate with the systems.
And I'm so excited for the future I really think like all this literature we you know we mentioned earlier when we're talking about.
You know on on the media now being with RFK junior and he's bringing up that we need to clean up the food and you know and I'm so excited to hear that because I've been saying that for a decade it was just like.
You know a lot of this is is a disease of environmental toxicity unfortunately and.
Yes there's finally movement and people are talking about and people are looking at their water and they're looking at their food and they're they're thinking about maybe taking a few supplements to help optimize you know whatever.
You know maybe MTHFR deficits they have or other genetics or just what not just you know whatever lifestyles that they're living that.
That they need to help you know kind of accommodate so it's it's a really really really cool time to be practicing medicine yeah I.
You know it's like I'm super excited about it.
It's becoming in people's radar and.
Is obviously a lot of our health trends are not trending in a good direction and people want to know why and yeah there's a lot of hope coming around the corner I think.
Yes.
So with with everything and you know and some of the things that we you introduced here we'll do more episodes and talk more in depth about some of these and even maybe introduce some new items so people know about this people needs to know about this.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely yeah I mean.
Like I said there's you know I I have my clinical practice and kind of see what works and what doesn't and I also you know I really focus on a lot of the research and I know the rocks Ross ignore and fry.
You know so we're trying to blend.
How does this.
How does this functionally land on the patient you know how how is this actually working out how do we read some study on paper and then actually implement this treatment and then how are we seeing that this is working out.
And then sometimes I don't you know sometimes I'm like I didn't see that that correlated too much in my own view or sometimes it's it's really great so.
Yeah it's it's it's an exciting time I like that that we're looking at the literature and kind of making it more scientific again like we talked about you know I mean not everything is a trial not everything has to be trialed.
Yeah, you have to go for it on the other hand I mean sometimes you just have to base it on clinical suspicion the parents like you know what I noticed you know when he eats garlic he feels better than okay you know.
And so you just, you know sometimes you just go for it but based on parent ratings, but, but yeah it's it's, it's a very cool model that I think I think we're going to see a lot more of it in the future, I think a lot of people are going to be starting to practice medicine this way and I think that.
You know, and I like I said I think that a lot of practitioners want this to. I think that a lot of PAs and you know, to be biased but I think a lot of people are going to jump on board, you know once it becomes more mainstream I think this is what.
I don't blame the doctors and PAs for the system right. I think our good people and they just this is just with a model they fit in and they have families they have medical debt they're just they're trying and you know I know I know there's there's some bad stories and there are.
But you know, I see a lot of them they're they're leading her first I have some my best friends are PAs and they're just man Nicole you know they're really trying and tell me about their patients and they care you know they really.
So I got them into health care. Yes, yeah, like I rarely see oh you know, some people are jaded in any career but you know, I think that things will turn around and I think that most people get on board.
Yeah, sometimes the trial is already been proven to us we don't need a randomized control trial through mother nature.
And everything that like your testing well mother nature gave us through evolution. Yeah, many generations of evolution so just get it back to that.
So, well, less not more. Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for sharing today and we'll put together some items for future episodes for sure. Okay.
Well, thanks Ryan thanks for having me on. And again, you know for viewers like I said I am. I have a website and I have my Twitter page and.
And I am also still seeing you know new patients for now at Rosignal Medical Center we're out of Orange County. So, in California. So, you know, let me know if you guys need any help.
We're going to make more podcasts. This is fun. Yeah, yeah. I put all your information in the show notes and definitely promote the clinic and your work for sure.
We got three trials coming out too so be on the look I'm going to share those on my profile so once pretty quick and we got yeah we got two more so hopefully by the end of the year I don't know it's kind of pushing it but we'll hopefully get them out we'll see.
Yeah, maybe you can give us some teasers.
Maybe you can give us some teasers from it.
Both of them are well two of them are review trials so we're trying to do like I said we're actually reviewing all medications affiliated with autism and a random that are that are randomized control trials.
And so what is the what is the entire body of evidence so these pages are like 100 pages long paper. So it's a lot but just we know what are the medications that help why what symptoms are they helping which don't help which have the side effects which don't you know.
We're doing the same thing for another paper for supplements. So what is the most that's kind of know about these supplements and so just to give us as clinicians a map of like this is pretty decent quality evidence and this is what you can try to use because we even get specific a lot of the trials are
like what dosing so you can not just guess at where to start. And then you know it'll also, you know, give, like I said the clinicians a start but also the patients to if you're like hey I was thinking about omega and I you know I read this trial and okay you know like this looks good.
And I don't encourage people to like practice medicine you know without a doctor but I know what happens and I want to encourage people to do something you know like you know it.
I don't want people to freeze you know some of this stuff yeah don't go buy random medications in Mexico that you know or you know from India that you don't know what you're implementing.
That's pretty dangerous but you know some of these things are over the counter for a reason you know officials pretty safe, you know, yeah.
You know you can buy us pretty safe. You're giving them informed consent.
That way they are fully informed to make a decision. Yes. Yes. And yes exactly so you know I want I want people to.
To feel empowered to not not feel just feel hope.
Let's try it you know or whatever you know he just there know that there is evidence out there we're not just this is not this is not snake oil you know that I mean really it's true you know.
You know we're not profiting I mean I mean you know we're not profiting you know this is just we're just putting this knowledge out there I mean when we publish trials.
They've always been open source free.
You know they're not behind a paid wall.
So yeah it's like we're good guys they believe in this stuff so yeah yeah and then there's a lot of passion and Dr Frye whenever he was on.
I you know he was he was so interested in just sharing the information and even teaching me and just coming on and spreading spreading on this knowledge.
So well thank you and I'm looking forward to the next ones. All right Ryan thanks me too. Yeah.
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