Hello, I'm the Star Trek one.
Nice. Just take the words straight out of my mouth and use them against me.
No one can hear because it wasn't recording. Is it recording, Dom?
You're such a dick. Hang on, you're editing it. It's all your fault.
I'll just cut, cut, cut. Hello everybody.
Hello.
Welcome to the Untitled Trek show.
Still such an original name.
I really like it.
Because we were talking ages ago about it being called something like Trek Talk.
Yeah, well that was one of the original ideas we had, wasn't it?
We were going to have it as Trek Talk and that was going to be in the main episode for the main show.
Then it was, let's spin it off to its own individual show.
And then we said, what are we going to call it?
And I think we just, didn't we jokingly say Untitled Trek Show? That's original, ha ha.
No, you just wrote Untitled because it didn't have a title. You just did it.
Yes, you're right.
Yeah, you just wrote Untitled Trek Show and I was like, I actually like that. We're not changing it.
Fair enough.
But do you remember I found that list of Star Trek podcasts and there was one on there called Trek Talk.
Yes, you did, didn't you?
Yeah, and there was a few that we thought we had come up with that were on the list.
Oh God, we're not being original anyway.
Yeah, apparently we're not original, so. At least we are with this one.
Yeah, I think so.
I am very surprised, to be fair, that you didn't open this with something like Mission Log.
No, sorry, Captain's Log. Today I'm going to commit murder.
I don't know who yet, but I feel like killing someone.
Because that's right. That's the whole plot line of this episode of Tuvix.
It's, yeah.
It was a bit of a roller coaster.
When I'd watched it the first couple of times years ago when it had come out, I think I ended with a different opinion.
Maybe I didn't even have really an opinion of it.
But re-watching it now, critically, well, what I call critically, our version of critical, I really got a different feeling at the end of it.
And actually, I really felt awkward.
That end, so we'll get there, but that end scene on the bridge, I was really uncomfortable and I felt sorry for him.
And I was like, you know what, I don't like this.
Let's just quickly jump back a bit there.
Accessing library computer data.
For those of you that aren't following along, we are on Star Trek Voyager today.
That was the episode series that you chose.
And we are on season two, episode 24, with the self-titled episode Tuvix.
And we'll do a very, very quick, brief rundown of the episode for those of you that haven't got around to watching it yet.
Tuvok and Neelix are on a planet.
They're searching for a plant.
They get beamed back.
Dirty Kim does something wrong.
They come back as a merged individual.
Merged individual spends his then next few weeks living his life as this new individual on Voyager.
People start to like him.
Other people don't like him.
And then good old hologram doc decides, I've finally worked out a way of fixing this.
And Tuvix doesn't want to die.
Janeway commits murder.
End of episode.
And we'll see you in two weeks time, everybody.
But that is the brief gist of the whole episode.
That is really kind of from the beginning up to the end.
That is the most simple kind of rundown.
But there is a lot to take from this.
And you're blaming Dirty Kim for it?
We'll get there in a minute.
But I'm definitely blaming Dirty Kim for it.
I wasn't really blaming anybody.
Oh, I'm blaming Dirty Kim for it all the way.
Okay.
100% of the way.
They were fucking around with the teleporter.
Transporter, darling.
Come on.
Get the terminology right or we'll have lots of trekkies want to kill us.
Yes, finally.
I would like to return your quote unquote ultimate belt.
I see that you have a receipt.
Quote unquote, sir.
No, I do not have a receipt.
I want it as a doer prize at the Star Trek convention.
Although I find their choice of prize highly illogical as the average
trekker has no use for a medium sized belt.
Oh, fat sarcastic Star Trek fan.
You must be a devil with the ladies.
I like it.
It's a teleporter.
I think I've always called it a teleporter.
It's teleporting.
It's doing that thing.
Don't get me wrong, but get the goddamn name right.
Oh, I don't fucking care.
I will cut you.
Star Wars is it?
Galaxy Quest?
Galaxy Quest is great.
It is one of the best films known to man and it's for free on Pluto TV at the moment.
What's Pluto TV?
The thing that you told me about.
It's a free streaming app that you can get on Firestick and everything else.
And it's just got loads of quiz shows, lots of police shows.
It's like Dave but with more and then it's got loads of films and Galaxy Quests on their playlist.
It's got a load of old films on there.
But yeah, Galaxy Quest on there.
And it's just, it's one of those films that it outdoes Trek at points.
Yeah, it's a really good film.
Yeah, it's just really good.
Well, as an untitled Trek show, we'll have to do Galaxy Quest one day.
I think we should do something like a live watch along or something with that at some point
because I've got to watch it again because it's just brilliant.
And the cast on it, brilliant.
But anyway.
So Tuvix.
Get on with it.
Yes, get on with it.
We start off Tuvix on an away mission with Tuvok and Neelix.
It's a rough start.
The first thing I've written, oh God, I hate Neelix.
He's just so peppy.
You can see that Tuvok just really wants to nut him.
Yeah, you can see quite clearly this is not an away mission that Tuvok is particularly pleased with.
He's really into botany, I think, the kind of backstory of him.
And he has his favourite flower as an orchid, as Neelix even says himself.
But it's clearly were he to choose somebody to go on this away mission with.
It wouldn't have been Neelix.
But I can see why, because they're in an area where they don't know and he supposedly does know this kind of stuff.
So I can see...
Can I just point out that's the constant storyline they use for him.
Oh, you're from this quadrant.
You know your way around.
Does he fuck?
He's useless.
I suppose it's kind of like saying the humans, well, they're from Earth.
That's in the Milky Way.
They must know every single planet's fauna and flora that's in the Milky Way.
Yes, but my point is whenever Neelix has been relied on for something,
like when they first come across him and they say, right, I know someone that might be able to help you.
Notice he takes them to everywhere where he is shit on his own doorstep.
No one likes him.
Wherever he goes, he's not liked.
And they choose to keep him on board.
Yeah.
Well, there must be someone must like something about him.
I did on my notes, I wrote what great makeup Neelix actually has.
I noticed particularly maybe just the lighting I was looking at.
I thought, you know what, as much as I don't like the character, they've done a really good job with the makeup.
We've said this all along, haven't we, whenever we've talked about Voyager,
especially with things like Threshold, the makeup team for Paramount Threshold.
So this is 1995 onwards Voyager.
I didn't realise it was that late, to be honest.
I know I missed it first time around because I didn't have Sky.
So I would have watched it on the first time it got aired in the UK on Terrestrial, which was BBC Two on their Sci-Fi nights.
But yeah, I didn't realise it was 95.
I didn't realise it was that late into the 90s.
But the makeup crew that Paramount have paid and the Star Trek and CBS have paid to do it, it's incredible.
And yeah, you're right. His makeup is really, really good.
When you consider what data looked like in The Next Generation and, OK, for what it was and what he needed to do, he looked fine.
But you could always see the reddening around his eyes where he was starting to get irritated by the latex and by the coloured contact lenses and stuff like that.
But Neelix's character just always looks flawless.
I think as well, like when you watch the HDFied versions of Next Gen, they have the issue that all of that era does.
You can see the makeup. You know what I mean? You can see the makeup.
Yeah, it was never designed for HDTV. It was designed for standard definition.
Voyager kind of seems to get away with it a little bit more.
It feels well, other than the fact it's a completely different generation of TV and filming style, I guess.
I don't know if they had a bigger budget for Voyager.
I'd be intrigued to see what the budget was between that and The Next Generation.
There's obviously a lot of budget was put behind The Next Generation because it was carrying on from what the world knew, the original series and the films.
So it had to be good, even though you read all the stories that Patrick Stewart lived out of his briefcase, his suitcase even, for the first series,
because he didn't think it was going to be a successful TV series.
But I would have said the budget must have been quite big.
But I don't know if they then did the same budget or an even bigger one for Voyager to make it a success.
I don't know. I'd be interested to see. But definitely the makeup's good.
Now, I've got written here, he just always looks dirty.
I know that's the makeup and that's what he's meant to look like, but he always just looks greasy.
It's something I think it must be about the hair and the texture they've made his skin and the patina on his skin that they've given him.
He just looks dirty, greasy and...
I don't know. There's something about it. You just think you need a wash.
Yeah. So they're on the planet. They're messing around.
Well, Nelix is messing around too. Vulcan clearly is not messing around.
Well, yeah, I've got no how about we don't sing a fucking song. Just look for the fucking flowers.
Oh, that was really funny, wasn't it? It was like a death march or something. He starts singing.
That's a traditional Vulcan death march.
Yeah, in Vulcan, yeah.
Or funeral song or something like that. It's like, yeah, well done there, Nelix. And he just goes, oh, I quite like it actually.
He's singing it anyway, doesn't he? Yeah. Classic.
But yeah, they're looking for the flower and then we suddenly bounce back to Voyager.
And the transporter room.
And the transporter room. Is there a storm inbound or something? There's always a storm inbound at these points, isn't there?
There's something happening, but they need to come back.
Yeah, so not Dirty Kim. There's another engineer there with him who's a continued character on Voyager.
And he's having trouble with the transporter for whatever reason, isn't he?
I believe it's Lieutenant Hogan.
Is that his name?
I don't think so. Yeah, only purely by IMDB.
Yeah, he appears later on in the episode again, actually.
Yeah, so they're messing around and Dirty Kim's there and they both start fucking around with the teleporter.
And then they're like, oh, it's all right now.
Basically, yeah, it comes there on the bridge and they say, right, we need to get you up for whatever the reason is.
But we're having problems with the transporters.
So they check in with engineering and they check in with Dirty Kim and Hogan, we think.
And have you got it fixed? And he basically says, hang on a moment, Captain, we think we've got it.
We've just got to do one more thing. Right, let's give it a try.
Now, when someone says, right, let's give it a try, don't you think you'd kind of radio down to Juvik and Neelix and say,
you know those flowers you've got, can you just grab something, put it on the floor and we want to transport it up to see if it works or not?
Yeah.
Well, I think I fixed it, so let's give it a try on two prized members of the, well, one prized member of the crew.
If I'm having my entire DNA structure decompiled and recompiled, try isn't really the word I want to be used.
You don't want Dirty Kim saying, well, we'll give it a try. I think we fixed it.
Yeah.
Really confident there, guys, really confident.
There might be a few, well, the spirals they called, of DNA spirals, what they called. Do you know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, double helix.
Yeah, the double helix. There might be one or two of those out of place. We'll just give it a try. Who cares?
Yeah, well, and then they end up with only one being in the transporter room.
So I've got, yeah, the makeup's definitely well done in Voyager. Hats off to them again.
So we've already talked about that, but my favourite bit is you can tell it's the two merged together.
I know they've got different actors. Let's not go into that.
Yeah.
But you can tell straight away that the plot of this story is they've both been merged together.
Why did Kim need to suddenly go off on the whole panic station? Oh my God, it's an intruder.
No, you've just beamed up two people. You've ended up with one and they look scarily like those two have been mashed together in a Play-Doh machine.
Yeah.
And they're wearing a Starfleet uniform of sorts. Is it really intruder Kim or are you just being a little dick?
Yeah, I couldn't decide whether they should, because this goes with what I was, I know actually no.
So I was thinking like, because their costumes get merged together, but later when they get separated, that doesn't happen.
The uniforms are kind of normal at that point.
But then he isn't wearing that merged uniform when they separate him. He's wearing a normal uniform.
Yes. I really like that merged uniform.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool.
I thought it was cool. I remembered the merge being a bit more dramatic than that, but nothing really happens. He just appears and he's there.
There's no like big kind of like merging of creatures and stuff. It just, he appears.
So I don't know. Have you, I was a bit disappointed with how they did that. You're right. I was expecting something more to it.
Now, maybe it's because they were catering more towards a younger audience, so they didn't want to make it too traumatic.
I don't know. But have you ever seen the very first Star Trek film? So it's called Star Trek The Motion Picture.
It's a very long winded film. It's not considered the, I enjoy it personally. It's where they get V-ger turn up and it turns out it's the Voyager Pro, blah, blah, blah.
At the very beginning of it, they kill off an unknown character immediately.
Right.
Basically they're at space dock and the transporter goes wrong. And what you get is the transporter person, oh my God, it's not going so.
William Shatner jumps over and he starts doing this, teching the tech and everything like that. And it still goes wrong.
But all you basically hear is this horrible, dark, terrifying scream as the person is just appears and just then disappears.
Deatomised.
And it's just, it's horrifying the noise they do. And then just to really, really hit it home at how fucking horrible it is.
He then goes, I think he is on the Enterprise and he gets on his commuter and goes, communicate to space doctor, have you got them?
And he's like, whatever came back didn't live long.
Oh, gross.
To give you the idea, it basically just re-atomised, reappeared on their transporter pad as this blob of just mix up atoms screaming in.
It's horrible. And part of me wanted that for this, not the horrible death, but to actually have some sort of like maybe both of them appearing on the transporter pad and then merging into one on the transporter pad.
Maybe have a kind of a scream from both of them as it kind of merges in to give you the idea that they're merging, not just it happens and then Dirty Kim running away saying it's an intruder.
Yeah. And how great was the acting of the other guy, his face, when he sees this guy, you know, the transporter dude, he's just got this, I just wrote, hammed up is what I've written here.
So that turns up later and I'm pretty sure it's the same actor.
Yeah, I think it is, yeah.
And I bet you it will be the bit I bring up, you go, that's the same one.
Anybody that watched this episode and isn't just listening, they will know exactly what we're talking about.
This one extra basically got paid extra to be really, really hammy.
He made sure he got the airtime, definitely.
But yeah, it's not a bad idea for an episode. I'm not going to say it's one of the worst Voyager episodes, but I don't think it is.
And actually as story goes, it's quite a strong story. And like you said, being critical of it now rather than watching it when we were younger just because it was Star Trek and we were watching it.
But watching it to try and dissect it and break it down, this is a good start to the episode.
Yeah. And now we get the wicked intro.
Oh yeah, then we go straight into good old, do do do do do do do.
I guess it's great. I just love all the Star Trek intros.
I do.
All of them are good.
They all need a little bit more French horn though.
Like the S9, get the old French horn in there as well. I'd be happy.
Really good.
But yeah, I guess then we come back onto Voyager, don't we?
The Doctor! Go straight to the Doctor now.
He's to the Doctor, isn't he? Yeah.
And we play a game that I like to call, insert music here editor Rob, Molecular Bingo.
How many times in this episode are you going to hear the word molecular?
It's yeah, a bit like threshold.
We had threshold bingo, now we've got molecular bingo.
And the Doctor, I love the fact that...
Best character in the series.
He is the equivalent of Data, but for Voyager, isn't he?
So Data you've got full on just speaks in that kind of monotonous voice,
doesn't really have an understanding or kind of emotion towards things.
And just maybe says the wrong things at the right time or even the wrong time,
or says things in a way that most people would say you really need to kind of not say.
Whereas the Doctor, again, is just the same.
It's just either he's grumpy or he's just straight to the point and is like, yeah, you're fucked.
The thing is, because the Doctor, he represents somebody who has coded an AI for a very specific job
and not to be anything else but the best at that job.
And that is being the Doctor in an emergency.
Because he's the emergency hologram, everyone remember.
He's not just the Doctor, he's meant to only be open in an emergency.
He didn't have to waste their time giving him bedside manners or anything like that.
He's meant to be to the point, this is an emergency, fix this, fix this.
I don't care about your human emotions, you're going to die, fix this.
Plasma conduit's blown up and it's killed four people.
I need an extra pair of hands, turn the EMH on.
Right, you deal with that. I'm dealing with this.
That's what he was there for.
Yeah, exactly. I think he plays that really, particularly in season one.
He plays that exactly how I would like him to be.
And it is good, however, the series is it kind of changes because he's there all the time.
You can see the AI is learning and moving around.
And I think he is the best character in the entire series.
Now, what I was going to say is, is Star Trek The Next Generation First Contact after Voyager comes home?
I'm guessing it must be.
No, well, that's not the same EMH.
No, it's not the same EMH, but I was just going to say, so the original EMH we get on Voyager.
In that first few episodes, he's blunt, he's abrasive, he's straight to the point.
He's exactly like you just said, he's the EMH as he's meant to be.
But then we come over to Star Trek First Contact. EMH, it's our favourite daughter all of a sudden.
And good old Bev crushes in and I was like, we've got Borg going to be coming through that door any minute, delay them.
But I'm the EMH, don't care, delay them.
And he has emotion. That's what kind of...
Is it after Voyager and they've updated his program to be able to show different emotions so that it's more comforting for people?
Because the Borg's coming through and he's going, so I hear that being a Borg, your skin's dry.
And you see that he's visibly nervous, which if that had been the first couple of episodes of Voyager, it would have just been, I'm an EMH.
And? Yeah, I wonder. We'd have to look it up, I wonder.
We state the nature of the medical emergency.
Twenty Borg are about to break through that door. We need time to get out of here. Create a diversion.
This isn't part of my program. I'm a doctor, not a doorstop.
Well do a dance, tell a story, I don't care, just give us a few seconds.
According to Starfleet medical research, Borg implants can cause severe skin irritation.
Perhaps you'd like an analgesic cream?
Did they... the film came after. In fact, no. The film would have been 95 actually, so...
I don't know actually, I don't know if that is then, because I'm pretty sure First Contact was 1995, which is when Voyager first aired.
Maybe it's just the way they decided to play the character in that instance and it's not...
Yeah, possibly. For film they've just made him act like, you're quite right, I'm probably looking into it way too much, but he is one of my favourite characters from Voyager, if not my favourite character.
He is my favourite character from Voyager.
And he gets... pardon me, I know we're going off on a tangent here as normal, but he gets good character progression.
They actually treat him really well as a character throughout of it, whether it's the very beginning and how he is, and then how he kind of calms down and softens up thanks to Kez,
through to the point that he gets excited about being put on a mission and having hollow emitters around the ship so he can then come out of the sick bay,
or then helping save Voyager from the aliens that take over and make them all live in the hollow deck recreating World War II.
It's really an interesting character.
You haven't seen all of Discovery, have you?
No.
They go through some AI stuff in Discovery, I don't want to spoil it for anybody that hasn't watched the last season of Discovery, but they act like AI being sentient in that way is a new thing.
But it would be for them, because they're...
No, in Discovery, in the future.
Oh, in the future?
Whereas in this EMH is actually... I'm only just thinking of it right now.
Whereas this EMH has basically become sentient, an AI that has now become completely sentient, as far as I can tell in it, and he's his own being, and they let him be a member of the crew properly.
Well, and you've got...
Same with Data, I guess.
You've got Data, you've got Professor Moriarty from the Hollow Suite novel that goes wrong on TNG.
I'm guessing it's because it's its own timeline that they've chosen not to go with. I just think it's a very strange thing to...
No, I think Discovery isn't its own timeline. I think it is meant to be.
Oh, is it?
Yeah, as far as I'm aware.
Oh dear.
No, each to their own, but I think that's a very strange choice to make then.
I think though, actually, maybe it's because it's the AI that's running the ship that's sentient, and I think maybe that's the distinction they're making.
Right, okay.
Because it's the actual computer AI of the ship that's now sentient, and it's stopping them from doing stuff because it doesn't agree.
Oh, okay.
It's a good episode. I'm just trying to go through it in my head.
I think though, I still think you should watch that last season of Discovery.
I will get round to it.
It saves the seasons before it, put it that way.
I know we've talked about Discovery before. It's just that first season really put me off.
It gets worse, dude.
And then the second season of we had a Klingon baby and all sorts of bloody things going on, and then it turns out he's not human, he's Klingon in disguise.
It's just so messy.
It's good that they moved away from that, but I think the first season they go into the future is, in my opinion, the worst season of all of them.
I think that's season three.
Yeah, so I've watched a little bit of that, and I just got, I lost all will to want to watch it.
When they meet the bloat that's got his own spaceship who's running away from the Intergalactic Police or whoever it is, and the Federation is just one star base on its own now with literally one man behind it.
You've got to push through it.
I literally only watched it because the missus was enjoying it, and I was like, okay, I'll keep watching it.
But the last season, I'm actually glad I think they're doing another season.
I think there's only two episodes in all the Discovery I've watched that I enjoyed.
The one that they do the whole evil empire, which every series seems to do, and they did it well, but it's because of...
Michelle Yao, isn't it?
Michelle Yao. She is just brilliant in it.
She's a great character.
I love that they bring her back as well and stick her off in Section 13 or whatever it's called. Section 31, 13? Section hidden.
Redacted.
And then the other one is with Harry Mudd.
Basically, Ginger Bird keeps on going back in time, and Harry Mudd keeps on killing the captain in various different ways.
That I really enjoyed as an episode, and it was really clever.
And it was doing something that was based on a character from the original series, but they'd done their own thing with it, and they'd done it well.
So I really enjoyed that. But those are the only two episodes I've really enjoyed from Discovery.
So it's not a good sign.
Sorry. We've gone a little bit far from...
We have, right?
Sorry. Yeah, let's get back to killing two vixx.
Back to the Doctor. Back to the Doctor being our favourite.
What am I supposed to do?
Lead a revolt with the gang from Sandrains?
Conjure up holograms of Nathan Hale and Che Guevara? I'm a doctor, not a counterinsurgent.
So here we are as the Doctor, basically telling us what's happened.
What he thinks has happened.
I've got to say, Tom Wright is the actor that's playing two vixx, has done an absolutely fantastic job in his portrayal of both Tuvok and Neelix.
And I did a little bit of reading on this, and apparently he was friends with both actors.
Apparently they used to regularly audition for the same roles.
So he got to know them and basically decided to base his portrayal of two vixx on the actual actors and not their characters.
Oh, cool. Yeah.
And he just does a brilliant, brilliant job.
The only thing I can say is, how has he come up with a voice that's more annoying than Neelix's?
It's weird.
He plays this character very well, and I don't like his character.
I actually don't like two vixx.
No, I don't.
At all. Not until nearly. I felt for him, I think, but I didn't actually like him.
That's the difference, isn't it? I didn't like his character. I found him a little bit lecher, a bit dirty kid.
Absolutely. We'll get to that. I did not like a lot of it, but he did.
Yeah. And you're right. The only thing that saves him is the final plea for his life.
And that's not saying that the actor did a bad job, because the actor did a fantastic job portraying two vixx.
It's just the character is written in such a way that I just couldn't like him.
And even his saving graces of him trying to say, please let me live, kind of sided with Janeway.
As horrible as it is. We'll get there later.
We'll get there. We might have different differing opinions on that.
So it's funny because he chooses his own name two vixx.
And I was thinking in my head, I think I actually prefer Nuvok.
Nuvok would have been a better name.
And he even said, I forgot he says it, he goes, I was thinking Nuvok, but I went with two vixx.
Oh, it wasn't just me thinking it then.
Nuvok is a better name. I would have so much gone with Nuvok.
But I wonder if the writers and the producers and the directors of it said, it's too likeable of a name.
Go for two vixx, which isn't as likeable.
And it's like two is in the number two.
Yeah. And you've got the whole bit that goes with it.
But I do wonder if they'd stuck with Nuvok.
People would have found it hard to have got rid of his character because it just was a better name.
Yeah, I do kind of feel like he looked a bit more like two vok, but acted a bit more like Nelix.
Yes.
Does that make sense?
It makes sense.
He was a good amalgamation of them both.
And it was very clever how it was written and how he portrayed the whole.
At this point, I'm acting as Nelix.
Now I'm acting as two vok.
And then I'm acting as the amalgamated pair.
So there's three separate requirements for him to act.
It was impressive.
I've written out here, I love the doctor.
He hates two vixx.
I get the impression in that scene that the doctor does not actually like him either.
So I don't know if it's the doctor doesn't like him.
I think this is kind of our first kind of insight into the doctor hating when he doesn't have an answer.
Yeah, I think that might be what it is.
It's more likely that the doctor is just angry and doesn't like the fact that he can't come up straight away and go, I know how to fix this.
Because I can't remember if we've had the episode yet or not when the organ harvesters take Nelix's lungs.
I don't know if that's happened yet.
I think it has.
I think it's actually quite early on.
And he creates the hologramatic lungs to keep him alive, which is a whole other thing we need to talk about when we talk about that episode.
Has he still got them?
No, no, no, no.
They get the lungs back in there and they track down the bloke that stole them.
They've got the technology to put it all back and sort it all out.
But you get the idea that the doctor is a very proud man when it comes to being able to fix things.
It's almost like it was a flaw written into the EMH program that he does have one emotion and it is he has to get something right.
Pride.
Yeah, it's pride. Absolutely.
This is one of the few episodes in the entirety of Voyager that I don't mind Kes.
Agreed, actually.
She acts it very well.
I do wonder if a lot of Kes's problems are if you wrote Neelix out, would Kes have been a better character?
Yeah.
Because she always ends up playing second fiddle to Neelix.
I don't like Neelix, therefore I don't like Kes.
Yeah.
Now, something happened in this scene that I really hate in all Star Trek and all Star Trek does it.
And that is Captain Janeway for once.
So every Star Trek does this, yeah?
The doctor explains something super complicated scientifically.
Yep.
Or it could be that they are in the astrophysics unit and there's seven of nine and she's explaining something super, super detailed about astrophysics.
Or they could be in engineering and you've got Bielanna Torres and she's talking about something super, super physically.
Every fucking captain seems to know everything under the sun and it's such bullshit.
I'm sorry. I hate that.
You would have your specialisms.
Fine. You would be a specialist in, oh, I'm a captain but previously I used to be an engineer.
Like Scotty.
Yeah.
I was an engineer all my life.
If he was a captain, he would know everything about engineering but you wouldn't expect him to know everything about astrophysics and or being a doctor and everything.
Yet Janeway and Picard does this as well.
They always seem to know everything about what's going on.
So the doctor goes, so it's all to do with the molecular problem.
And Janeway's like, so it's just like this and then starts raining off.
It's like, oh, we don't actually need anyone, do we?
We just need Janeway on the ship.
Yeah.
Or we just need Picard on board.
Yeah, exactly.
And then the
movie says something to her and she's like, oh, flattery gets you nowhere.
And I wrote, yes, it fucking does.
Flattery gets you everywhere.
Oh, it does with Janeway.
Yeah.
I've literally wrote, you're a liar.
We know flattery is your jam.
And by the way, where is Tom?
As in where is Tom Parris?
I wrote, I bet he's still cuffed to her bed.
He's in the sex dungeon.
I don't know if he's in the entire episode.
I'm sure we get a glance of him but I don't think he's in much of it at all.
You know what?
He's in the ready room with his wife.
He's actually a background character for once.
He's too busy to be chained up in a bloody room.
Yeah, I think I've heard a lot of people say, oh, he's a bit of a
different character.
But I'm sure you've heard like Tim Russ or Ethan Phillips to have played.
No, I'm glad.
I'm glad it's a different actor entirely.
Snap.
Because that leans into what I think is right.
And that is this is a new being.
And I think I wrote my notes later on when it comes up.
Neelix and Tuvix are dead.
Sorry, Neelix and Tuvok in my eyes are dead.
No, I agree.
That's 100 percent.
They have died in a transporter accident.
That is the end of it for that.
That sort of side of it.
And everyone now should be grieving the loss of their friends.
And that's it.
What if the doctor had come back and said there is no fix for this?
Well, he does.
He basically does say that.
But they keep fucking around.
Until they find a fix.
But my point, yeah, OK, let's say two months down the line and the doctor still
hasn't found a fix.
When does the captain do the log to say I must send a note to Tuvok's family?
We don't care about Neelix's family.
We'll just throw an envelope out in space and hopefully someone will pick it up
that knows him.
We're sorry, but he died in the line of duty.
Right.
OK.
That would be fairly immediate if it was any other crew member.
So let's say it takes them 10 years to find a solution.
And they're still going through the Delta Quadrant.
Right.
Ten years.
At this point, Tuvok's has found a relationship with maybe Kes.
They've had a child.
And suddenly you come along and say, oh, we can fix you.
We can fix you.
I don't want to be fixed.
I've been alive for 10 years old with my 12-year-old wife.
I always forget that she's literally one year old at this point.
And it's fully accepted that she's with him.
Yeah, exactly.
And it's grim.
When's the cutoff date that everyone's going to accept it?
And Janeway at this point cannot turn it around.
What's the cutoff?
But it should have been immediately.
In my book, it should have been immediate.
Because we are now, she does a Captain's Dog, we're now two weeks later.
Yes.
And you want to know the star date?
I wrote it down.
Oh, go on then.
What's the star date?
49678.4.
Now, I wanted to restart the episode and see what the star date was.
Because if she says the star date, the star, so then I could actually understand what star dates are.
Yeah, I still don't understand.
What's two weeks in the star date?
Yeah, 49678.4.
Yeah, I'll never understand the whole star date thing.
It's very, very odd.
So April 5th, 2063.
No, this is first contact star date.
I'm just seeing if we can match it to Captain's Log star date.
Oh, it is.
So 49678.4 is where we're at.
And Captain's Log star date 50893.5.
So first contact is after their birth.
No, it can't be.
49, or it depends how long it's 49 to 50.
Well, exactly, we don't know what that is.
I wouldn't be guessing Voyager's still missing then in first contact.
Well, that's just understanding what 49, because that's not a year.
We have to understand how long a year is in star dates.
That's very true.
We do.
And who knows?
Oh my God, this is all very, very...
There's an advert there for True Detective.
The great series, everybody.
So yes, Star Trek first contact 50893.5, Voyager Homestead, Voyager the Gif, Dark Frontier.
So the earliest Voyager star date they've got here is 40840.
So it looks like maybe one...
I couldn't tell you then.
It makes no sense.
It makes no sense to me at all.
And I think we're just padding time that we don't need to.
We know this is going to go on for a long, long time.
So anyway, back...
So they're in the ready room.
Loads of them are sat around the table.
This is actually where Paris is.
And this is where we first hear the term symbiosis...
Was it symbiogenesis or something?
Symbiogenesis.
Oh, God damn it.
Symbiogenesis.
Yeah.
Yes.
Which is there to...
Good luck, Simon, because that's going to be one of your words.
Yeah, the idea is that you've got two life forms as one.
Did you notice...
So she is flirting fucking heavily with everyone in that room.
Always.
She stands up as they all do.
I think Tuvik stands up and kind of talks and stuff.
I really hate that in a conference time.
Imagine you being at work having a conference and you're around a conference.
So does your boss stand up and start walking around?
And we all take turns and stand up to talk.
Simon, it's your turn to make a point.
You're not just standing up and start walking around the table and put your hands on someone's shoulders.
Because that's the kind of vibe I get.
Particularly with Void.
They didn't do it in the next gen.
They didn't do it.
Everyone sat at that table.
No, no, no.
Rikers sat backwards on a chair or with his leg up.
Everyone's too scared to stand up in case they've got those of his dust all over their shoulders.
I'm not standing up because how can we beat perfection?
Now, I know it's probably just a filming thing. They want the characters to sit in a...
It's about giving movement on screen and making it interesting to look at as well as listen to.
Also, whether they filmed it in 16 by 9 or 4 by 3, they stand so close.
Their faces are really close.
I'm just like, he can smell her breath.
She wants him to.
But don't forget, also Voyager is a small ship in comparison to the Enterprise.
Even though it's so small that you have to be touching noses.
Let's come home, kiss. Rub, rub, rub, rub.
I just think Janeway is just such a...
I'm going to say, I don't think she's sexy, but she's a sexy character.
Oh, yeah.
I don't find her particularly sexy, but I think she is a sexy character.
No, but she emotes it, doesn't she?
I think she does, yeah.
I've also got a point here.
I'm thinking this probably happened maybe a scene back.
Tuvik says, oh, no, it is around before the two-week bit because he's saying,
well, I can be at tactical.
And Janeway is pushing towards, I just want you in the galley because I can hide you there.
Go on, hide you in the galley.
Yeah.
No, I've got all my security knowledge still.
So they accept it and there must be a place for me.
I've written here horribly in the incinerator.
Yeah.
And they're talking about fixing him, air quotes.
And I think it hasn't clicked in his head that fixing him would kill him.
No, it hasn't.
Because he's willing to help.
And I think it hasn't quite yet dawned on him.
But he's just willing to be this new creation, isn't he?
Yeah.
Now, I've got here.
Oh, I've got a comment on the bridge, but anyway, go on.
Oh, no, no, go on.
When you see, what's the first officer called again?
I can't remember his bloody name.
Oh, Jackoff.
Jackoff.
Chackate.
When he sits.
Chackate.
Sorry.
That's something because I know how to say it and you always get it wrong, but you remember
it.
Chackate.
When he sits down and the console comes down, that big massive console.
Do you notice how slow and sluggish it was coming down?
I just wrote, that's impractical.
Why can't they just be there the whole time?
Why does it have to stow away?
It's not in anyone's way.
Is it?
Whose way is it in?
And to be fair, you're in this world, they've all got little pads.
Yeah.
Why are they just carrying around a pad?
It's like, I'm sat in this chair, so it's now pulled up all the information that this
chair entails.
I feel like that's probably how it would work.
Exactly.
It's like, I'm sitting in the captain chair.
Boom.
Captain mode.
I'm sat in the first officer's chair.
Porn.
Oh dear.
Rykel was sat here last.
Oh dear.
So then we've get to the bit where Tuvix goes and becomes a sex pest.
Yeah.
And yeah, I kind of got...
He's creepy as fuck, I feel here.
I carry Neelix spunk in me.
It's all of yours, Kez.
Come on, come on.
Have me, Kez.
Go on.
Have me.
Have sex with me, Kez.
I think he isn't...
He's not...
He's obviously got Neelix's feelings.
Yes.
But he's not using Tuvix's...
He's not using Tuvix's...
Well, unless Tuvix's going through Pomfah, which is the whole vulcan puberty thing.
Because there's no logic here, that he has no understanding that actually, Kez, it's
only two weeks since her best friend, boyfriend, whatever they are, died.
Only two weeks.
Yeah, and he's now like, Kez, I've got feelings for you.
I want you.
And it's like, don't you get how creepy that is, that not only are you part of her dead
lover, but you're also part of her best friend in Tuvok, because Kez and Tuvok are very close
in the series.
And it's basically what you're saying is, am I talking to Neelix, or does Tuvok want
to give me one as well?
Because that gets even more confusing then.
Yeah, and I don't think Neelix is attractive, but he certainly isn't.
No.
Not with that hair.
That odd hair.
They've got odd strands of hair.
All of it.
And even, I know I said that about Neelix, but even Tuvok's just look greasy.
Yeah.
It's just the shine of the makeup, but he just looks gross.
Yeah, and he kind of, and he touches her, doesn't he, and he kisses her.
And I just think, I don't like any of this.
He needs to be me too, for that scene.
He really does.
The computer just needs to ping up saying, security to this room please, because he's
just touched her up.
I was not happy with it at all.
So uncomfortable.
Playing on this grieving woman's heartstrings, trying to worm his way in.
I did not like it.
And then eventually saying to her as well, not just then saying, by the way, I fancy
you and I think we should make a go of this, blah, blah, blah.
But then going to her and going, can you please go to Janeway and say that you'd like me to
stay as this please?
I just think that's so out of order.
Yeah, I think what it is, is I think they're trying to make it show that he still has feelings
for her, because Nelix had feelings for her.
But they played it as in like, he just expects her to be the same.
Yeah, he expects her to just bend over and just accept what's going on.
Yeah, as soon as I've said it, it's the wrong thing to say.
I mean, it would have fit with his attitude.
Like, he really should have gone, look, I'm really struggling with how to compartmentalise
our relationship.
I'm part Nelix, part Tuvok.
I have got feelings for you like Nelix said.
I don't know how to act around you.
You clearly aren't ready for my company because you're grieving.
They do do this eventually.
I really think that even though this is going to really hurt my feelings, I think it's the
right thing to do for us going forward, is we need to stay apart from each other until
you've had time to work out what's going on in your head and I haven't had time to work
out mine too.
As that leads on to the captain's log, doesn't it, where she's saying he's integrated with
the crew now and he's surprisingly, the Tuvok part of him can actually cook, so it's actually
better in the galley than it's ever been.
But he takes his security duties just as seriously and I've still got my tactical officer, blah,
blah, blah.
But the bit I particularly didn't like was after the whole sex pest thing, I've got written
here Kez go to HR or Janeway.
Oh no, no, Janeway says it's fine.
The whole Janeway speech there is you've got to understand he's going through changes as
well.
Yeah, I understand that.
That doesn't entitle him to come up to me and basically shame me into wanting to have
sex with him and be with him because he's half the person I used to be with.
Janeway should have really gone, I'll have a word with him and then like you said, you
need to give Kez the distance.
They could have done that.
That could have been written in really nicely of Janeway just walking through the ship with
him and just saying, you've got to remember you are an individual now.
You're not the two individuals you were and you need to give them space.
Then go into that Captain's Log saying he's really thrown himself into life on the ship.
He's becoming a crew member.
For all we know that was in there, but for her to have ever admitted that before the
thing that she does later is even more incriminating for her, right?
I think that would have actually made it better because it would show that she's not just
considered her feelings and what everyone else has and the fact that she wants her two
crew people back, but that she's also considered that yes, I've accepted that this is a individual
as well.
I think they could have done with that actually to show that she was a proper emotional turmoil
from it because honestly, when we get there, I don't think you get that much turmoil from
her.
No.
You don't get the feeling that she's absolutely broken from it.
She plays very stoically.
She does.
Because I think that maybe she just doesn't want to show it to the crew because you can
see the crew are really a bit like, what do we do?
They're all on the bridge looking to her and she's like, I've got to be the one to just
do this.
Absolutely.
There's a bit I've written as well.
When they've done that whole chat and she's going on about how he's integrated into the
crew, I've got here, realistically, no one actually misses the original two characters.
Neelix, he's a pain in the eye.
I don't like his character.
We all know I don't like his character, but even most of the ship don't particularly like
him.
You look at how short and shrift everyone is with him across the entire crew.
He can't cook.
No one likes his cooking, but they've got to put up with it because the replicators
are all fucked.
And then even Tuvok, no one really likes Tuvok.
And actually when I think about it, I wouldn't have been sad to see his character go.
He's not half Vulcan, is he?
He's full Vulcan.
Yeah.
Vulcans aren't likable anyway.
They are.
Yeah.
If you go by what the Vulcans are, and Enterprise does it very well when we get onto an Enterprise
episode, they hate the Vulcans.
And it's actually really well done.
And it gives you a good idea of why they do it.
And they make the Vulcans unlikable.
Except for T'Pau who is on the Enterprise.
And there's a whole different story.
But I just kind of, for me, I wouldn't have cared if Tim Russ's character disappeared.
I wouldn't have cared if Tuvok disappeared because as much as he is useful in a lot of
the episodes and you get a lot of narrative between him and Kez and other characters,
it's not one I would have missed.
Yeah.
And I think that having a...
Oh fuck, I've instantly forgotten what race he was.
I'm right to the mind blank.
Tuvok.
A Vulcan.
Having a Vulcan in the tactical position is quite good.
Yeah.
And it makes a bit more logical sense than having a Klingon on a tactical.
And I don't know if that kind of...
Kind of...
Yeah, Klingon.
Jesus.
Blow it up!
It's a friendly ship, Mr. Wharf.
Wharf.
Turn the shields off.
Turn off the torpedoes.
Okay, Captain, I'm sorry.
Wharf works because of the other crew members around him.
Imagine having him with Janeway.
I do wonder if we got a Vulcan on Voyager because TNG didn't have one.
And the original series had a Vulcan, TNG didn't, Voyager...
We should have had a Vulcan.
It was almost like a requirement, so let's have a Vulcan back.
But then for Deep Space Nine they didn't, but for Enterprise they did.
Do they have one on Discovery?
I think they've got one on Discovery.
Have they?
Not on the bridge crew, I don't think.
But somewhere.
There are recurring characters.
To be fair, TNG, there's a couple of...
It's alternating.
There's a couple of background characters that they have.
There's definitely a couple of them are.
There's that terrible episode where Wesley Krusher's in charge and he's basically stressing
that older people aren't going to do what he says and one of them's a Vulcan.
When you get Ensign Roe turned up and they're all talking about their...
Are they going to get promotions?
And one of them is a Vulcan.
So there are Vulcans on it, but I'm talking about main crew members.
This is a different Ensign Roe than what we're familiar with.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
This one can do shit.
She turns up back in Picard, remember?
As a lady.
But anyway, so...
Oh, it's her.
Yeah, sorry.
Yeah, it's her.
Right, anyway, Kez has actually gone to Janeway for another nearly 10 minute long sexy scene.
Yes.
And how often...
So I've made a comment here.
How often did you see the male captains in bed robes?
Quite often with Picard.
That looks that glorious, though.
Picard were the one that would literally...
If it was a woman...
Oh no, you're right.
He did.
If it was a warm set, you would have seen testicle with Picard.
Oh, but he had a really good chest.
I talked about that, didn't I?
He did.
I didn't want to know why not.
He's quite attractive, so...
He is...
He is the gilf in NTNG.
Gilf!
I remember, I never would have used the term gilf for Picard, but you're right.
He's the granddad I'd like to fuck.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm thinking you're right.
I know it's a TV show, but she's got a lot of makeup on for a bird who's just been in
bed.
True.
I'm not going anywhere after having the friendship chat with Kes.
So after he's finally accepted that...
I said the wrong thing, and he goes back to Kes and says about, I just want to be friends
and just get on with our lives then.
He says that fateful thing, I'm not going anywhere.
Oh yes you are.
As soon as any character says that in anything, you know they're about to die somehow.
Yeah.
It's just guaranteed.
It is a full on Hollywood formula, isn't it?
You have someone on screen, they say, don't worry, I'm not going anywhere for a long time.
You can guarantee the next scene, they're going to have got shot or stabbed in the side,
and it's that typical lore of they must hide it until an hour later where they open their
coat and the person goes, oh my god you're bleeding, and they slowly die.
That's exactly the case here, isn't it, with good old 2vix.
I'm not going anywhere.
Literally the next scene, the doctor has worked out how to fix all of this.
I have a problem with this scene.
The doctor video calls Dirty Kim.
Dirty Kim, he only wants to do a video call with him, so he calls him up and asks him
to do it.
Dirty Kim walks up to the video screen.
Now rather than sit in front of it, he stands in front of it.
Now this video screen is at groin level to Dirty Kim, but if you look at the doctor,
he's looking up at Dirty Kim.
Now the webcam will be looking straight at Dirty Kim's groin.
And from the doctor's perspective, he's just looking at a monitor, it's not a hologram
of Kim that he'll see.
Imagine if you and me are doing a webcam and our webcams are at different height.
I'm not looking ever at your eye line, I'm looking at the screen of where I see you.
So for you, I won't be looking in your eyes.
Unless I look directly at the camera, then it'll look like I'm looking at you, but only
if you're sat directly in front of your screen.
So why is the doctor looking up towards Kim's face?
I've got no idea.
It doesn't make any sense.
I haven't even tweaked that.
You're right.
Watch that scene again and you see that threw me off because it's like he wouldn't be doing
that.
No, I think you're absolutely right there.
Yeah.
That's really weird.
I just found that really odd.
It just kind of made me not concentrate properly on that scene because I was just trying to
figure out in what scenario would the doctor be looking in that way.
Surely he'd actually go, can you just sit down so I can see your face?
I'm just a bit bored of looking at your groin, Kim.
Dirty Kim by name and by nature.
Unless there is some super technology that does angle cameras around.
Well probably, but let's assume not because it's funnier.
So the next notes I've got now is to do with him saying that he's sentient and then going
on about how I was going about, well, you could consider them, they should be dead from
the accident like we were chatting about earlier.
There's another tick off for molecular bingo.
Molecular bingo indeed, yes.
And then you've got Kez turning up saying, I'm here to talk to you about two vicks.
I want you to kill him.
And I'll talk about the next bit in a moment.
I've got a comment about the pool table.
This is where we are, weren't we?
We're playing pool.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
That was it.
It's just got to that point.
Yes.
So did you notice that everyone either has uniform or bedwear, but nothing in between?
They're all there, unless they're on a break.
Everyone there is in their uniform.
It's where your pajamas to work day.
Everyone has to put one credit into the pot.
They've got holograms in there, clearly holograms because they're all in the...
Well, yeah, they're in the bar in the holosuit.
Everyone else is in their uniform.
Yeah.
It's funny.
Pardon me, the things that you don't pick up that the other person does.
I hadn't even thought about that.
You're right.
Yeah.
So you've got people either, if they're in uniform...
Maybe they're on lunch break.
That makes sense.
They're in their uniform because they're just on lunch break.
Yeah.
And then everything's synth a hole, so it's not like they're going to get drunk.
It's like, yeah, I had 12 beers.
Hey, Jackoff, I had 12 beers.
I'm on the bridge.
Yeah.
But there's no alcohol.
But on lunch breaks, do you go as a group and play pool?
No, you probably go have yourself something to eat, maybe just chat at a table.
Maybe you do go play pool.
I've been in businesses where...
Not necessarily gone and played pool, but I've been in a business or a company I used
to work for called Veebra down in Park Street.
And on a Friday, we all used to have lunch at the same time and we'd go to the Red Line
pub in Radley.
And we'd all have lunch.
And yeah, if there'd been a pool day, we would have probably paid pool.
But no, it depends on the work group and I would imagine the lower decks on lunch would
go and play pool.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
Yeah.
It depends who you are.
Yet if you were Geordie, you'd probably be off programming some sort of dirty sex experience
where you're trying to lay your next victim.
If you're a Wesley Crusher, you're just going to be a geek and go and do some homework on
your lunch.
So yeah, I think it's dependent on the people.
Yeah.
Okay.
But now we're really at the point, aren't we, that everyone is saying, he's sentient,
but we want you to kill him.
Yeah.
It's got around the ship because everyone is now staring at him.
And this is, I'm pretty sure this is the same actor you were talking about when Janeway
says to Tuvix, I need to think, I need to come up with a decision and I'll tell you
when I have it.
And that's a horrible thing to do.
Yeah.
So I think you've said, I need to come up with a decision right now.
I'm assigning you to quarters because I don't know what to do.
And that is going to mentally fuck with you.
So I can't trust you to be on a bridge or doing anything really important.
Well, I think he uses the term execution here.
He does.
Yes.
And he's totally right.
This is her planning his execution.
And in my opinion, the execution has already happened and that was the teleporter accident.
But it wasn't an execution.
It was an accident.
But those two people are lost.
They are gone.
And I think, I really think it's because it's over two weeks now, everyone needs to have
come to the realization that this has happened.
They're dead.
This is something that's happened and now they have a new person.
100%.
And it's really shitty that Janeway hasn't dealt with that.
As if that had been anyone else, if that had been one person lost in the transporter accident,
there would have been the very next day a torpedo shell with his remains, gooey as whatever
it is, fired off with everyone stood by it and Amazing Grace being played by some random
bloke on a bagpipe yet again.
Now she shoots herself in the foot with her own logic here by saying to Tuvix that does
he not want to give up his life to save another person's life?
Because I know that my friends Tuvix and Tuvok and Neelix would give up their lives to save
another.
It was like, well, there's your point.
They would give up their lives to save Tuvix.
So why should he give up his life to save them?
Okay, it's two for one.
I understand.
We're going to buy maths of people.
Fine.
But again, they're dead.
So yeah, I guess what you, she could have full on gone Spock with the needs of the many
outweigh the need of the few.
That's the argument.
Or the one even.
That's the argument.
And that is the argument.
But I guess the way I would look at it is, and it's a horrible decision to be in, is
we accept that their bodies are dead, but can you call someone dead when Tuvix full
on says at the beginning of the episode that Neelix and Tuvok are still there?
Well he says their memories are there.
Does he say their memories?
Because I get the idea that he's struggling to be one or the other before he eventually
falls in the middle of them instead.
I think he says something like they're there, he's there, but also I'm there.
But that's the point.
They are there.
So drawing the line and saying they're dead, yes, but if they are actually present in his
brain and he has just basically got the control of being able to say...
He does say specifically that I think Kez asks him, even the Kez of the Doctor, saying
about are they in there?
And he says they're not in there and he's controlling them.
They do make that distinction right in the beginning.
Right, fine.
Okay.
So ultimately then you're absolutely right.
Yes, he might have the memories of them, but ultimately they died on the transporter pad.
That is the end of it.
They should have had a full on Starfleet funeral and that should have been the end of it.
There shouldn't be any point of the spot.
Even if they work out how to fix it, the answer is it's Tuvik's choice at that point.
And this now is what...
You've assigned him a job, you've assigned him quarters, you've allowed him to live a
life.
If you weren't going to allow him to live a life and say...
He should have been in stasis.
He should have been stuck in the brig, in stasis, in quarters.
In the buffer.
Not allowed...
Stick him in the buffer.
He'd like to stick it in Kez's buffer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But he shouldn't have been allowed to go and live with the rest of the crew until a full
on decision had been made.
Absolutely.
And that's it, isn't it?
And once that decision has been made, they need to say to the doctor, stop.
Yeah, don't look into this anymore.
Although I don't think the doctor would have stopped, but I think at that point you go,
officially we need to say, we're not going to change this now.
This is it.
He's here.
If you do, maybe if you do find a solution, then that's going to come down to Tuvix to
make the decision himself, whether he wants to separate himself to bring them back.
We're no longer in control of that.
We can't take this sentient being and force them to die.
Quite right.
Absolutely.
You can't.
This bridge scene is the best scene in the episode, the best part of the episode, where
he is fighting for his life and seeing how, and he's pleading to everyone on the bridge
to not let it happen.
Before that, so he comes out of Janeway's office and it's almost like Janeway has basically
already been on the comms badge to everyone going, just let you know.
So this happens.
So when HR are going to fire someone, a department head hears, then they go off the HR meeting
and that manager basically then messages everyone on teams and goes, look, it's really shitty,
but this person is going to come out in a very bad mood because we're letting them down.
They've been made redundant or they've been fired because they're shit.
They're not going to meet their six month period or whatever it is.
They're going to come out not very happy.
It's almost like Janeway's done that.
She calls him in for the meeting and then he comes out and straight away all the bridge
crew are just looking at him.
This is when we get to the end, so I'll call it down as Ensign Ricky, but I'm pretty sure
it is Lieutenant Hogan in this point.
He turns and he looks at Jackate and says, basically with his eyes, do you want me to
let him have the security console?
As I bear in mind, we've just been told for the past two weeks, he's been working it.
So why are you being like this now unless you know he's just been told he's going to
be executed?
Then he hands it up so much and does the full on eye roll and then walks off.
It's like, why have you just done that?
Really Jackate and Paris are both there.
Like you're saying, they clearly know.
Everyone seems to know that the answer is Janeway's just said, I'm terminating you.
What a character moment this is for him too, where he's actually saying, I forgive all
of you for this.
You feel guilty for this.
He's better than I would have been.
I would have gone kicking and fucking screaming.
I'm surprised he's in straight to tactical and basically lock everything out, transport
him somewhere to safety.
It's like, see ya.
That's kind of what I thought he was going to do.
I completely forgot that it didn't happen.
That's kind of what I thought he was going to do.
I thought he was going to run right.
I know they had security right away.
He goes to the door to try and run out the bridge, doesn't he?
And security standing there and manhandle him.
But I think it's what the issue is.
I think Voyager, this happens quite a lot with Voyager because we saw it in Threshold
as well.
They've got a brilliant story and it goes really well.
And then they realise we've got literally 10 minutes to sum this story up.
And suddenly it's all a rush.
So yeah, suddenly he gets told you're going to die.
He has this huge emotional plea, which is fantastic.
You're right.
He's genuinely moving, but then he's straight down in the Doctor's and they're like, yeah,
this is happening.
Doctor then says, I can't do this.
It's against my oath, basically, as a Doctor, which is bang on.
But guess who randomly knows how to do all of the magic?
Jane Weyders.
Jane Weyders has to do it.
Yeah, why wasn't she doing it in the first place?
So I had a little bit of an issue with the scene between those two when they're walking
him to the Doctor.
The Doctor, the side of him, she's walking in front of him.
That seems like a fucking stupid thing for her to be doing.
For someone that she's basically taken to death row.
Yeah, who could at any minute just vulcan death grip her.
And his security.
So I'm guessing he may have one of those little tiny, tiny phases on him.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
He could easily beat all three of them up.
Oh God, yeah.
And they're not holding on.
I know he's going quietly, but he could change his mind.
At any point, at any point.
Oh, it's all right.
The Doctor knows what's what.
He does know what's what.
I don't remember exactly what I was putting there.
But that was a note.
Now so the fix for this.
Oh, oh, oh, oh.
There's a continuity error.
So the two beds that are there, there's an orange thing on the bed.
Oh, it doesn't move.
Instantly disappears.
Okay, just want to put that on there.
Anyone who rewatched that scene, there's an orange thing on the bed, just vanishes.
So the science behind the fix is basically they're going to do what we do now, which
is a barium meal, basically, or barium, whatever the pronunciation is.
So in current current generation in real life, you drink or you have barium injected.
And when you go for an x-ray, it shows up where it is.
And it's a it's a it's a contrast die for radio radio radiation kind of scans.
So yeah, you inject it and then you can see around the body.
Brilliant.
And what they've come up with is a new isotope that they will be able to separate between
the two bodies and they can teleport it out.
Trek nonsense.
It is Trek nonsense.
So I've got oh shit, we didn't test the isotope on a human-esque person because they've only
tested on a plant, remember?
And they've split the plant, not anything else.
Anaphylaxis.
Oh shit, we've just killed two vix and we've lost both people.
Yeah, but we've got a real nice orchid.
We've got the orchid back, yay!
In memorial of Tuvok.
Whose job do you think would be to water it?
Would it be in the captain's cabin or would they stick it somewhere?
Janeway, we have to left it in Janeway's quarters.
Ten forward.
Oh, it's been knocked over at another rowdy party.
And you know what, people are carrying it around.
It has to have a shift on tactical.
It's on the security station.
Orchid shields.
Orchid, what have you done?
Why have you fired a force winder photo of torpedoes?
Who's arming the torpedoes?
Orchid, stop it!
Oh no, the book.
It's your kid.
You will be assimilated.
Yeah, but like Weed from Bill and Ben, wouldn't it?
Orchid!
Right, anyway.
I'm actually crying.
They've been separated.
I have a point here.
Should one of them be naked?
Well, yes.
They probably should both be naked.
No, they should both be naked.
Because if you think about it.
You are actually crying.
I know, it's wonderful.
A poor Orchid.
But it's true though, if you think about it.
Unless Tuvix never changed clothes because the clothes he's in was part of his body.
Where have these clothes come from?
Unless the doctor's gone, oh, we'll just add a little bit of programming here.
Make sure they're not stockpiled naked when they rematerialize as individuals.
They should be naked.
Or they should be, have half clothes each.
One has top off and one has bottom.
If you're going to merge clothes together, then surely you unmerge them when you separate
them.
Absolutely.
Why are they suddenly in uniform?
I've got, oh boo Janeway, why couldn't you beam Neelix in space by mistake?
Whoops.
And then who arrests Janeway for murder?
Oh actually, she looks pretty bummed.
We better let her off.
Yeah.
I've ended it with grief slash regret.
I think I'm making a point of her face at the end of it.
You can see it's absolutely cut her.
You can, as much as she's stoic, you get the idea that this was a horrible decision to
make, but you don't kind of feel like it was too much of a decision.
It's really, it's hard to put into words.
I just kind of feel like it was too easy a decision.
Part of that was obviously the time limit of the episode.
And as I said, they rush it at the end.
They tend to do that a lot with the Voyager episodes.
It gets rushed at the end so you don't get necessarily a satisfying conclusion.
And I was just saying here, can you imagine the captain's lock for this episode?
It would end up in the Hague.
Yeah.
Well this is it.
She does some questionable things on her time as captain.
You see, you know the Federation's going to have a court of human rights, will be the
court of alien rights at this point.
And it's just like, so Janeway, well done.
You brought your crew on the most part back from the Delta Quadrant.
Well done.
We've gone through your logs now.
We've got some questions for you.
Well you know she makes Admiral, so they clearly don't give a fuck.
Apparently what happens in the Delta Quadrant stays in the Delta Quadrant?
Different post codes.
Different star dates.
God start for you shit sometimes.
Accessing USS Shit Show crew member log files.
Please select required crew member.
Ensign Court selected, commencing playback.
Ensign's log, star date 26239.4.
The captains assigned me a very special mission.
Find out where the moisture goes from Holodeck simulations.
I did ask engineering, but they told me to piss off.
Guess I'm on my own with this one.
So how is it?
Wow.
It's a solid episode.
I do like it as an episode.
I don't like Tuvix, but I don't know if I dislike him enough versus Neelix.
Would I have liked, let me put it this way.
Would you have liked Tuvix to have carried on as a character if they'd chosen not to
kill him and bring back the other two?
If they'd made him less lechie.
Probably not possible in Star Trek.
Then the thing is I actually do like Tuvok.
Oh, fair.
Yeah.
But you see that's what you've got to accept, isn't it?
You've either got to accept that they're going to do what would be right and let Tuvix live,
but then put up with losing two characters, one of which we like, or do what basically
humanity says you shouldn't do, but bring back the one character that you do like.
What do you think was the correct decision?
The correct decision would have been let him live.
I agree.
It's yes, you've lost the other two, but they are dead at this point.
They don't exist.
It's not an accident in the same way as Threshold where Paris is turning into this other creature.
No.
That's different.
He's still himself.
He has no choice about it and he's still Paris.
Whereas Tuvok and Nelix didn't have the choice, correct, but they are not themselves.
They are not present.
They're not going, today I'm Tuvok.
Oh, by the way, but Nelix is still here.
It is I am one.
I am Tuvix.
So he is his own independent sentient being.
It was the wrong choice.
As I said, what happens in the Delta Quadrant stays in the Delta Quadrant.
Out of curiosity, I don't know why I've written this.
Imagine being able to spawn in unlimited characters you don't like in Elite Force.
Who would you kill the most?
Just because I know Elite Force basically carried on from kind of the Voyager era and
then I know it ended up in-
I would probably be Nelix.
I find him really annoying.
I would probably be spawning in Nelix nonstop.
Maybe Kez every now and then.
Yeah.
Setting up a scene where Nelix is running towards Kez and having a go at the sniper
rival, can I stop him before he gets to her?
That sort of thing.
Kez though, it's not that I don't like her character.
I think I didn't like the situations and episodes they put her character in.
That's what I didn't like.
The character should have been good.
She was poorly written for.
And then they- when she's not in it anyway, it's because she wanted to leave.
Is it because she wanted to leave or did they wrote her out?
With Omega, they did that fucked up stuff with her, don't they?
Which becomes some kind of god or something.
They basically say her race has never got to this age.
Normally the caretaker or whoever it was that was looking after her race eliminates them
before they ever get to that point.
Or they have a suicide booth, don't they?
Or something like that, isn't it?
And actually, if they get past that point, they then move on to the next stage of their
own evolution, which is glowing light that shoots out the side of Voyager without ripping
a giant hole sitting everyone into spaces.
That would have been a brilliant episode.
By Kes, boom!
See, now he's saying that.
I wonder if there's an episode in Discovery with a kind of being that's like a nebula.
And I wonder if that's kind of what they are, kind of thinking.
Yeah, very true.
But then again, I'm still waiting for Discovery to just jump the shark fully and have a Q
individual turn up.
They haven't got those in Discovery, I think, yeah.
Yet.
But that's one of my...
There's a brilliant thing.
There's a meme that's been going around.
And you've got, when Picard met Q, he put him on trial.
When Janeway met Q, he put him on trial.
When Captain Cisco met Q, he punched him.
And it's like, that's brilliant.
It's very, very true.
So, you enjoyed the episode?
I did enjoy the episode, yeah.
I think it was a good episode for what it was.
It wasn't the best of the Voyager episodes by far, but it was definitely nowhere near
the worst episode.
I was just having a look at the trivia to see if there was any good trivia on the episode.
And there really isn't.
It's just saying about how Tom Wright basically knew both the actors.
Apparently it had a much more comical tone and slapstick elements.
They decided later that the premise, though somewhat hokey, deserved a more serious and
philosophical approach.
Yeah, I think so.
And they made the right call.
Hey, Tuvix, guess what?
You're dead.
Yeah.
Waa, waa, waa.
Then something about Dirty Harry and the piece of music he's practicing, which we don't care
about.
Apparently, Ethan Phillips, the actor that played Neelix, was considered to play Tuvix.
But apparently the director, Cliff Boal, decided against seriously pursuing the possibility
feeling Phillips' Neelix was too identifiable.
Oh yeah, definitely.
Which is true, because as soon as you stick him in, it's just Neelix and they've blacked
him up.
I would have made Tuvix character be the act.
If I was going to pick one of them, I would have had Tuvix person do it, but made him
act like Neelix.
That's how I would have done it.
Agreed.
Apparently this is the first time we see the science laboratory on Voyager.
Oh is it?
I wrote that, actually.
I wrote a note saying how good the set was.
Yeah, it's a really good set.
And there you go, the science laboratory on Voyager is seen for the first time, and the
episode marks the first time Neelix is seen wearing a Starfleet uniform.
He's also seen donning the gold...
Oh, that's other episodes.
Oh, now this is interesting.
This takes place in 2372.
Right, okay.
So now we have a year.
So let's come back to my list of things that we've got here.
We now need to find Star Trek first contract.
2373.
Okay.
So it's a year later.
So they're in their first year of Delta Quadrant, because each season was a year of them in
Delta Quadrant, wasn't it, basically?
So technically the EMH in first contact should be how the EMH is in at the beginning.
So it should have no emotion, it should just be purely up his own arse and acting choice.
It must have just been a decision made for the role.
And to be fair, it's probably quite hard for him because he's been told you've got to play
the EMH, play it as you would on Voyager.
And Voyager has just suddenly done this storyline of giving him sentience and his own autonomy.
For all we know, the director of first contact didn't know that.
No, possibly.
I was going to say...
And the actors probably don't even really know the fucking star dates and all that.
Of course they don't.
I doubt any of them really ever worked it out.
You never know though.
Anyway.
Command functions are offline.
The next Star Trek episode then, we've got another skit inbound at some point, I believe.
And then the next one I would like you to watch is The Next Generation.
And I can't remember what it was.
The episode name is Rascals.
Rascals.
And it is episode number six of...
No, episode seven of series six.
So series six, episode seven.
And it's called Rascals.
And...
I don't know it off the top of my head.
It's a crap one.
Okay.
But I want you to watch it because there's so many things that I would happily talk about
in it.
So yeah, episode seven, series six, Rascals of The Next Generation.
If you want to watch it before us, watch it and then come back and listen to us talk about
it.
Wicked.
In it, brav.
Thank you everybody as always for listening.
Thank you.
And sorry we missed the actual release last time.
Never mind.
We're back.
Hello.
It's the end of the episode.
We're back.
Welcome.
So where can they find us?
They can find us everywhere.
But if you head over to channel84.co.uk, you can find all our social links on there, including
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And we're either at channel84 of some variety or at flat rob.
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Podcasts comes to both of us.
TJ and Rob obviously goes to the person that you want it to go to.
And that's it really.
That's where you can find us.
Still send me your files, your logs, your hot takes, your screams, your alien noises,
anything Star Trek.
If you want to be in a Chit Show episode, if you like them, send me an audio file.
I'll put you in.
Definitely.
And then also send us an audio file if you've got, as Rob said, your own hot takes.
If you watch Rascals and you want to send us a voice clip of your opinion on it, send
it to us.
We will stick your messages in and we'll talk about your messages.
So send them in to us.
We're good.
Cool.
We will see you in two weeks for Untitled Trek Show or next week for the normal variety
show.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the Channel 84 Untitled Trek Show.
This station is now shutting down and will be back in two weeks.
Excelsior.