Hello everybody.
Welcome to the, what are we calling this?
Trek talk.
Yeah, the Trek talk I guess.
Mr Trek talk.
I hope your warp cores are primed, because my knee cell is tingling for some Trek.
Oh good god.
I just thought about it for a couple of seconds.
I'm already ready to press stop.
Yeah, welcome back everyone.
This is our new separate Trek talk.
So expect spoilers in this.
We are going to talk spoilers about Star Trek.
So what we're going to do, I have finally caught up with Strangely New Worlds.
So we've got all of that to talk about.
I'm behind on Lower Decks.
I've only seen the first two episodes still.
I haven't watched over two yet.
So there won't be any Lower Decks today.
We're going to talk about, but we're not going to talk about the entirety of Strangely New Worlds,
because I've got a few hot takes about it and they're relevant to the last few episodes.
I want to talk about the last three or four episodes of Strangely New Worlds.
And also a recurring theme to this.
So we always have something to talk about was we're going to go through basically all of them, aren't we?
All of the Star Treks.
And we're going to pick an episode.
Probably, I think you said we're going to do the first episode.
I was going to say, should we do it in order?
So what we'll do each week, we'll be looking at a specific episode of possibly the original series,
maybe TNG, maybe Deep Space Nine, maybe Voyager, maybe Enterprise.
In fact, what we could do, we could do it by release date.
So we could do TOS obviously came first, then the animated series, then TNG, then Voyager, then Deep Space Nine, then Enterprise, then Discovery.
I guess it would have been...
Then Lower Decks, then Strangely New Worlds.
So and what we'll do is we'll match them up as we go.
So one week we'll look at episode one of that first season series, then the next, let's say, I think that's nine series there.
The next nine episodes will be looking at episode one of all the series.
And then we'll do episode two of all the series.
Unless there's new Trek to talk about where we'll have a whole section where we just discuss new Trek for that beginning bit.
I quite like the idea as well of maybe every now and again picking a particular episode from any of the seasons
that we are notable that we really like.
Well, I thought we do that because if we do the nine series one episode at a time, that's quite a lot to undertake.
And there's no guarantee that they're all going to be streaming at any point, is it?
Because they keep changing the licensing around.
I know Paramount has the majority of them, but so does Netflix.
So maybe we should maybe we'll stick with that then.
Maybe we'll just choose every episode, a notable episode.
We both go away and rewatch.
Either way, we haven't got one for this week.
No, no, no, no. This is just new Trek.
We'll say what it is.
I think of why.
OK, I'll pick the first one because I know already I want everyone to watch my favourite Voyager episode.
I have to find out the number of it.
Sex Nudes.
The one where they turn into nudes and have sex.
So over the course of this, I'll find out what it is.
But what I think, you know, tell it now.
And then if you want to join in, everyone can listen to it and be ready for the next episode.
And have seen it and be able to join in on the enjoyment in their enjoyment and in their heads.
Or whether or not they hated the episode and hear what we think about it.
So right.
Strange New Worlds.
I just want to say specifically, if ever there was a ship that needed a counsellor, it's their fucking ship.
There's three characters that are quite clearly suffering from PTSD.
So you wouldn't want Dr. Meglermoe on there or Deanna Troy?
The two doctors and the pilot quite clearly have got PTSD.
So M'Bunga is massively, massively PTSD from the Klingon War.
Nurse Chapel, PTSD from the Klingon War.
The pilot.
She has it from the Klingon War too.
Yeah, from the Klingon War.
They're just the three that I can think of the top of my head.
They're seriously being let down by the Federation to not have that access to that.
It's ridiculous.
But hang on a moment.
So yeah, Ortegas, that's the name I can remember.
What about then La Nounian Sing?
Traumatic childhood of being part of the genetically recreated race of the Singland.
So she's got, she spent her life being an outcast.
She needs counselling.
Yeah, true.
Or First Officer Ouner, who was in jail a few weeks ago, could probably do with some counselling.
Uh, okay, yeah.
Uhura probably needs counselling seeing as she watched Hemel kill himself.
Yeah.
Reasonable reason why he did it, but still.
Yeah, they really could do with a counsellor, couldn't they?
Yep, absolutely.
Yeah, I hadn't even thought about that.
And it's funny that Voyager didn't have a counsellor.
No, they didn't.
Deep Space Nine didn't have a...
They treated Neelix and the girl...
Oh fuck off.
They weren't the cast, but they treated them that way.
They'd all go into the mess and talk to them.
Kez, I can kind of understand and would say, you know what?
I'm gonna accept you as a counsellor.
If Neelix tried to counsell me, no, stab him.
Stab him.
That would be good counselling.
Get your anger out.
Give him a stab.
Oh, Threshold is the episode of Star Trek Voyager we would like you all to watch.
So Voyager, season two, episode 15, Threshold.
Season two, episode 15.
That's what we all have to watch.
Before the next Star Trek episode.
So you've got Fortnite basically.
Fine, okay.
But yeah, you're right.
They are all in drastic need of counselling on the Enterprise.
Yeah.
Now, this is what links into my, could possibly be a hot take about Nurse Chapel.
Go on then.
And this is where I think it's a bit spoilery now.
We definitely couldn't talk about it.
So it's the episode where the Klingon guy comes, episode eight or nine.
So yeah, that is episode eight, Under the Cloak of War.
Okay.
And then the nines are singing one, so it all makes sense right.
So she's clearly going through something.
And her way of dealing with her PTSD is actually, she's a bit of a cunt, sorry to use that language, to Spock.
Who we know isn't very understanding about the human feelings in the same way.
Doesn't know how to quite manage them in the same way.
But he is actually really trying in this episode, episode eight, to help her.
And rather than her actually just saying, please don't do it in that way.
I'm going to get through this on my own.
I don't actually, she's actually quite horrible to him.
So I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time, I would say what she's trying to do as well is protect him because she knows she's going to be going off.
She went for the Vulcan Science Academy.
She got turned down for it.
She's applied for another disappearing thing to go off and do.
I can't remember what it was now, but she's off to another science side of things to go and do a time away with them instead.
And I think all she's trying to do really is say that this probably isn't going to work.
But she never says any of that.
No, she's expecting somebody who doesn't work in those nuances of emotions the same way as a human does to understand that.
And she's entered a relationship with someone knowing that they don't understand.
And she treats him like he's going to understand it.
She basically is horrible to him.
She's actually horrible to him in that episode.
She's not nice to him.
And then in the next episode, when she does when all the singing thing and everyone's really emotional, you know, Spock has his own song about not understanding what's happening with you.
She essentially basically it's like dumping him by text.
She's told everybody that she's off this thing and she's leaving and she hasn't told him.
She's even gone to a bar to have drinks with her friends and not told Spock yet.
And then Spock comes in and then she does her music.
You're not going to turn me on this.
I think she's an arsehole.
No, no, no, no, no.
I'm not going to try and turn you on it.
I'm just going to say full stop that the relationship is obviously incredibly going to be incredibly difficult.
It's complicated.
But go back one episode, so not the under the cloak of war.
Go back to series two, episode seven, those old scientists.
So for me, bloody brilliant episode.
The crossover with Lower Decks done absolutely beautifully.
I was really worried that the crossover of animation into live action wasn't going to work.
And it did.
Jack Quaid.
He was Boimler.
Yeah, he's not just a voice.
Everything was just absolutely perfect.
But what about the beer?
And this is the only reason I'm not going to sway you on it.
I know that.
He causes the problems though.
He is the one that potentially has turned her into the arsehole.
So Pike is living every day knowing what is going to happen.
And you get the whole joke about the beepy chair thing in there.
Chapel doesn't know anything about her future.
Boimler drops it that Spock isn't with Chapel in the future.
His future, his history of Spock, he knows that Chapel's not with him.
And you see in her face and the whole point was, oh.
So almost in her brain then she now knows this isn't going to go anywhere.
The future's already set and it's not going to go anywhere.
Because the head of a snake eating the tail of a snake.
Exactly.
So how would you get...
It doesn't excuse being an arsehole.
It doesn't excuse that at all.
But also if they had a counsellor on board.
Yeah.
That would actually help.
So I'm in love with someone that I know it's not going to go anywhere.
Now is it not going to go anywhere because I'm going to die soon?
Is it not going to go anywhere because Spock's going to get back with his wife?
Is it not going to go anywhere because I'm going to piss off and be an absolute bitch?
So how do you cope with that?
I have a caveat to this.
Oh God. Go on then.
So go back another episode.
The Nunean Singh, maybe it was the episode before that.
Where she goes back in time.
But it's actually an alternate reality she goes back in time to.
Who's to say from Nurse Chappell's point of view that Boimler hasn't come from a different universe's future?
That's very true yet.
That the split hasn't happened yet.
So all the paths are the same.
But there is a split at some point because we know that there's an infinite number of potential universes.
No, that's true.
You're talking about episode three by the way where she ends up back in Canada.
And really well done episode as well.
They didn't go over the top with the whole time travel thing.
They didn't go over the top trying to make it look futuristic.
They kind of made it work really nicely.
But I'm not going to change your mind on it.
I understand that.
And I agree she was an absolute bitch in that episode.
And the next episode.
Whatever the reason being there is a better way to have dealt with it.
Conversation with a counselor with Spock.
Yeah.
That's what she could have just gone to Spock and gone look.
Future man has just told me blah blah blah blah blah.
And he would have probably said the same thing to her that he said to Pike.
He said something to Pike about living for now.
Yeah and you know who knows about the future is actually set.
You don't know what's the basically what's the point.
I think that was season one because I'm really going through season one again.
Yeah.
Well it would have been.
Because when he says it might be an episode one or episode two when he's like you know I've got maybe 10 years or something left.
No I thought it was the isn't it the end episode of series one where.
They come across the Romulans for the first time and Spock's basically saying to him something's not right captain.
And.
Well he hasn't told him what it is.
Yeah.
At that but until that point but in this I think it's episode I think it is episode one or two.
Oh OK.
And they are he's you know he's making tea.
He always makes tea doesn't he.
He's doing something like that.
Yeah.
So she does kind of then put it back a little bit in the last episode.
But only because I first was like well it's because Spock saves a life so she came up with that.
Well actually she kind of saved him first.
You know he was there doing something and then she shot the Gorn which was effing brilliant.
Yeah we're talking about the last episode at the moment.
I know I'm moving all around the place.
I'm going to come to that in a minute when we get to that.
But let's.
I agree.
Counsellors are needed.
Chappell's a bitch.
At this point.
Currently I think personality wise she's lowered in my estimations.
Enter authorization code.
So those old times is the lower decks cross over first of all.
What were your thoughts on that.
So I think it's pretty good.
Yeah.
I love the fact that the very end it's strange new worlds but in lower deck animation.
Yes.
Something feels a bit weird.
Yes.
I remember I spoke to you many episodes ago now and I was like how are they going to do
the whole thing about one being caught in one knot.
Are they at any point going to mention that.
And it just the only mention about it is when he comes in he goes why you look so weird.
He goes why you look so real.
You're really realistic or something.
The intro done in strange new worlds mixed with lower decks with the alien thing on the
outside.
It was really clever wasn't it.
I was really impressed with it.
Brilliant.
Absolutely brilliant.
They just got all of the little things and I think as well if you weren't someone that
watched lower decks I think that would have made you watch lower decks because now Miranda
is actually interested in watching a bit.
Excellent.
And she had no interest before whenever I say it's a cartoon she's like I'm not interested
in that.
But talking about the whole chapel bit when Boimler tells her basically Spock isn't with
you in the future is possibly the funniest bit in there when he's absolutely panicking
is I think I've broken Spock.
Yeah.
It just had me laughing going I love the fact he's really worried about that.
And then when obviously when she comes in she breaks every wall going.
It's like she says about the rules but she does not follow a single one.
She tells everyone everything like.
I love it.
She's just like yeah party atmosphere.
Let's go party.
And she like shows them a drink that hasn't even been invented yet.
You know just brilliant stuff.
It was an absolutely cracking episode.
And that's what I'm going to like about strange new worlds.
They managed to have in their series a light episode which brightens everything up before
going back into what sometimes some dark and not depressing distressing kind of episodes
I guess.
So you say with all of the whole umbanga and Chabu Klingon war trauma.
Yeah.
There's a lot of darkness in there that could just make the show miserable.
So the fact that they can throw in a light episode like this and have fun and then we'll
come on to subspace rhapsody in a bit just shows you the quality of the writing and they
know where they want to go.
Absolutely.
And I think they're doing just brilliantly.
The difference between this season and last season because I'm re-watching season one.
They really were.
We spoke about this when we originally spoke about it.
How I liked how every episode was still a Star Trek thing and then they had the continued
story arc going through of the stuff that was happening to Pike.
They've really pushed that aside and just embraced episodic Star Trek and that was really
the right move because I was just right because by having that stuff with Pike there just
means this isn't going to last very long because they're just pushing for that story and that's
going to end it.
That's one of the reasons I didn't like Discovery.
Every episode of TNG on the most part, every episode of TOS on the most part, same with
Voyager to an extent but that's probably why I don't like Voyager and Deep Space Nine as
much as the others is because the others, it's episodic.
I can go onto Netflix or Paramount.
I can choose TNG and I'll watch that one today and I can watch it without any issues, without
having to worry about what happened in the previous episode or what's going on in that
series.
As Discovery, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, you've got that ongoing backstory that's always there.
Now Voyager is not so much actually.
The backstory then getting home is always going to be there because that is the ultimate idea
of the series but a lot of the episodes are very episodic.
I think my only issue with Voyager was it got a bit repetitive.
Every other episode, the same bad guys turn up over every season.
I know the Borg turned up at a loss of it and actually I'm not that upset with that.
I think they had the most faulty holodeck in any of the spaceships.
Exactly.
Then Deep Space Nine is basically the constant, is Cisco a god and the Dominion War but each
to their own but episodic for me works better.
I think I'm just trying to say that there.
Under the Cloak of War.
I'm just trying to say this.
I watched through all of it and managed to miss this episode until last week when I watched
it.
You skipped it?
I don't know how I did it.
I went straight from The Ozone Scientists to Subspace Rhapsody.
It was only when I was going through checking it I spotted it and thought, well shit, I
better watch that before we chat.
This is the Klingon.
I'm really glad I did because it's a really good episode.
The Klingon ambassador.
It's the Klingon ambassador who's known as the Butcher of Dugal.
I always think in my head Butcher of Blaviken because of the Witcher.
I think it was Dugal wasn't it?
Something like that anyway.
If I say it wrong that's why.
Who killed his own men but has turned into an ambassador trying to bring peace between
the Federation.
So they say he killed his own men.
Wow, exactly.
Then it just turns out that M'Bunga and his magic green goo that he injects into himself.
As we spoke before, where does this goo come from?
It's all explained here.
It's a really good story progression for those characters and also gives us that depth into
the Klingon war that you keep hearing about.
And I'd like to say it was really good.
One of my notes, I haven't got my notes up.
One of the really good things about this episode is you see a side of Star Trek that you don't
see.
You don't see the Federation having guerrilla warfare on the ground.
This is very Star Wars.
This is like watching the Clone Wars.
Very Empire versus.
This was seeing people in a war getting killed was happening here.
They save that guy's life only for him to go out and then get completely blown to smithereens.
That horribly brutal moment in the episode where M'Bunga shows Chappell how to store
someone in the Patton buffer.
Then at the very end, him just pressing the reboot button because she couldn't.
They have to clear the buffer because they need to use it.
She can't do it.
She just walks up and just turns it off.
The idea of being war is horrible and you can't save everyone and she had come to try
and save everyone.
It's traumatic.
It shows how good his character is too.
It's just another thing he's willing to take responsibility for so she doesn't have to.
And the whole thing about, as is the reveal at the end of who the butcher is, it's him
taking the responsibility again and taking all of that guilt and stuff on himself.
And it's interesting as well to come across this Klingon that they've given guilt to basically.
He's doing this because he was unable to do it in real life.
He was unable to control his troops.
He was unable to stop the barbarism that was going on.
Mbunga did it but he lived with the status that he gained through what he allegedly did
knowing he hadn't done that.
And actually that plays really nicely alongside this.
There's an episode in Deep Space Nine which I think I would actually make us watch after
we've done that Voyager episode.
We'll take it in turns.
And it's basically an episode where a Cardassian arrives on the station and Kira recognises
him as, funnily enough, he's the butcher as well.
Butcher of whatever.
And he was a general that put many, many, many, many of them to death.
And the whole point is it's Nazis.
He is a guilty Nazi.
He didn't want to do what he did and he basically hoped someone will kill him.
Instead Kira forgives him and then he still gets killed by someone who doesn't fully understand
what's going on.
So yeah, it's a really powerful episode.
I think that's kind of what we're getting in this episode is the guilt of not doing
what someone has bigged you up to having done and then trying to fix everything that your
race has done.
It's tough because clearly it's a really difficult one to really know how you stand with it morally
as well.
Because you know that Klingon has done some terrible things.
Now he didn't do the killing of all of his own men, but he did do a lot of other killing.
And he is trying to do good, at least that's what it appears to be.
And I don't think at any point is there any kind of thing that actually he, there's no
twist that he isn't doing that.
But he admits, what's the guy, Mbenga, I can't remember, I get his name wrong all the time,
I apologise.
But he comes clean to him saying, look, because he wants him to help him, do you think he
remembers that it's that guy?
Because it's a bit of a surprise to him.
I don't think he knows who did it.
But he's basically attached himself to Mbenga because he sees him as this raw...
I think he knew his name.
Possibly.
Because of implied he knew him.
But yeah, so eventually Mbenga comes clean to say, in a long winded way, that actually
he was the butcher and he was coming there to get him.
He killed all of the Klingons single-handedly with his green goo and just missed on getting
him.
Because I thought that it was going to be, because he's going around in a cane, that
Klingon.
That he does know, before that reveal, he knows something about Mbenga and actually
he's the reason he's limping around.
And that's what I thought, that doesn't happen, he's just an old Klingon dude.
And then for, you think that there's going to be, because he wants Mbenga to join him
and try and use his popularity in the Federation to come together to boost the joining of the
Klingon Empire and the Federation.
And actually Mbenga's just like, no, that kills him.
And everyone goes along with, like, to Nurse Chapel, they basically, they'd probably go
in and be like, you know, make it and go along with the story.
And there's like an interview of Nurse Chapel and him.
And then even Pike comes, like, Pike wants to get the truth, but they will not say even
to him.
Exactly.
But he knows.
You can just tell.
Just talking about the Klingons for a moment.
Now I didn't like Discovery's Klingons.
I thought they were well over the top on the design.
I'm glad that we're back to kind of what I grew up with as a Klingon, but even then they
still made it look better than it was.
They look so much better than the TNG Klingons and a million times better.
They've just upgraded it.
The makeup's got better.
It's full...
That's what it is.
There's a brilliant, there's an Alexei Sale, if you remember him as a comedian.
He had a TV series of clip show sort of thing.
And there's an episode where they're ripping the piss out of Star Trek and he's Picard.
And they're laughing at Worf and they give him a mirror.
It's like, oh, come on, it looks like I've stuck my head in a bucket with shit.
It didn't, especially the first series, Worf did not look good.
It got better.
But this, I think I prefer the look of this because it's been done that much more with
newer products and better money and so on.
He looked like a wrinkly conehead.
Didn't he?
At points he did.
He was too tall.
The head thing was too tall.
Now knowing what the Klingons are like though, and go out again, the original series films,
the Klingons are brilliant, but you get that real idea.
And lower decks capture them as well.
They're boisterous.
They laugh.
They have comradeship.
Lower decks does a really good way of...
You'd expect them to be a specific way.
And in this episode, you get that from him.
He's trying to be peaceful, but also you get that whole bravado you expect of the Klingons.
And then it just came to it.
And I don't know why I thought this.
No idea where it came from.
And I would genuinely love to see Lenny Henry as a Klingon.
Yeah.
Well, he's a hobbit at the moment, isn't he?
Is he?
You haven't watched any of the Lord of the Rings series, have you?
No.
He's a hobbit.
Yeah.
No way.
Yeah, he does really well.
But I would love to see him as a Klingon because I think, you know, he would be able to kind
of portray that humour, but I can also imagine him being able to be very dark and angry as
well.
He's a very good actor.
Well, it's like Matt Smith in Doctor Who, Modern Doctor Who.
I looked at him and thought there is no way you're going to be able to convey anything,
but I'm super happy Doctor.
But he had a very wicked dark side to him.
And when he was angry in the Doctor Who series, okay, not quite as terrifying as David Tennant
comes across as when you cross the doctor and he's angry, but Matt Smith could do it
as well.
I see Lenny Henry being that sort of person as well.
Have you not seen House of Dragon?
No.
Where Matt Smith is one of the main characters and plays a fucking evil bastard.
After kind of seeing him in in Doctor Who, I've seen a fair few things with him in now
and he's a tremendous actor.
He's a fantastic actor.
They get really good actors to play Doctor Who.
Yeah.
Eccleston, fantastic Shakespearean actor.
Tennant, fantastic actor.
Matter of fact, I can't remember her name.
She's been loads of stuff.
She's absolutely brilliant.
What's her name again?
It's gone.
I can't remember her name.
It's so bad because I haven't watched any of them.
That's the thing.
Yeah.
But I know she's a very good actor.
And I think the new guy who's in it too is supposedly, I've not actually seen him in
it, but he's supposed to be quite good too.
Yeah.
I can believe that as well.
Just seeing the couple of bits of the clips, he's going to be brilliant.
He's going to fit the role perfectly.
So yeah.
So what was the point we're making about you?
Oh, you wanted to see Lenny Henry as a King?
I think Lenny Henry would make an amazing Klingon if he was given the chance.
Absolutely.
Jodie Whittaker.
That's the one we're thinking of.
Jodie Whittaker, that's it.
Sorry.
I couldn't think of what else she's been in other than Doctor Who.
So I went for Broadchurch, which she is amazing in.
Broadchurch, there you go.
Okay.
So yeah.
I missed that episode and I'm really glad I went back and re-watched it rather than
just going, well I'll catch you.
What a hard one to miss.
It's one of the best ones.
It is one of the best ones of the series.
Excluding, I would say exclude Subspace Rhapsody and Those Old Scientists because those are
both very different episodes that you wouldn't normally get in any Star Trek series.
But they work.
They belong where they belong.
They are absolutely fantastic pieces of work.
But as good as they are, I can't give them the trophy to say that's an amazing episode
for this series.
That's the episode you should go and watch.
And I would say under the cloak of war is one of the ones I would say maybe that's the
one on this series.
If you wanted to see if you were going to get into it, see this one.
I think you're right.
If you want to actually choose a Star Trek, you know, Star Trek episode, then that's the
one to watch.
As I said on Twitter though, I think Subspace Rhapsody is one of my favourite, if not favourite,
Star Trek episodes of all time.
Yep.
Absolutely.
Subspace Rhapsody.
I am blown away by all of their singing quality.
Fantastic singers.
Aren't they brilliant?
In particular, Ahura.
Ahura's beautiful voice.
And Sing.
Those two.
Really surprised by Lilliana.
Fantastic.
They're just absolutely brilliant.
And I've listened to the soundtrack so many times now on Spotify.
And Spock.
Spock?
Grinning.
I'm the X.
What a great...
I was so not...
No, but that very first one when he's...
Apologies.
I was not expecting it.
And then as gorgeous as Pike is, I wasn't expecting to have a singing voice, but damn
it.
He's got one.
He's got the looks and he's got the voice.
Even like, especially when it's spread and everyone starts, because there's a subspace
normally and then something happens, blah, blah, blah, and everyone starts singing.
And it's not just the ship, it's in everyone.
And then Ahura just makes a comment, like she spoke to the general and he's really pissed
off.
And she goes, and he did it in a really nice baritone.
She's like, just makes a comment about it.
But I still love the bit.
It's a really beautiful baritone.
When she's...
I found the pattern.
We need to get to this number.
Yeah.
And I just love it.
They're getting closer and closer.
And then the Klingons are hailing, Captain.
And it's just Pike's look at her, go, go on there.
And then boom, you get this...
Let's start dancing and rapping.
It's brilliant.
The auto tune.
Oh, so funny.
It's just hysterical.
I tried to get some photos of genuine photos of me, but they just came out a bit creepy.
I just put my phone onto selfie mode and just watched it.
And even though I just took a picture, I had the biggest grin on my face.
They just...
I had a whole way through.
It was absolutely...
I've listened to the soundtrack nearly every day since.
It's brilliant.
I don't think I can say much else about it because it is a musical episode.
If you don't like musicals, still give it a chance because it's still a whole lot of
Star Trek.
And it does tie up a few loose ends.
It does.
It does stuff.
Particularly the thing stuff kind of ties up that little arc with Kirk.
Yes.
Yep.
You've got the whole Kirk and Lahn and helping her progress what she wants in the future
and how she feels and allows her to actually move herself forward, which she wouldn't normally
be able to do or would allow herself to do.
I mean, the whole premise is anyway, that once they've triggered this subspace anomaly...
Anomalmy?
Anomalmy.
With music, which has then made everyone sing.
Everyone is singing the truth.
So yeah, you've got Pike basically going, I lie so I don't have to go on holiday with
you.
Yeah.
Lahn never lets herself be vulnerable, but she lets herself be vulnerable with Kirk.
Yeah.
Spock is worried everything is going wrong and what's he doing wrong?
Apple is, I'm just glad to be out of here because everything is just...
Less complicated if I'm not here.
It's a really clever episode.
Yeah, her is on her own all the time and she's got to learn to not be on her own.
Yeah, exactly.
It's just a really clever episode.
And I think, yeah, I'm probably going to watch it tomorrow actually.
Now we've spoken about it again.
I want to watch it again.
I think the poor Spock, his solo is about him being dumped.
Yeah, basically.
I'm the ex.
That's where he comes to the realization that actually she's moved on from the, I need to
accept that actually...
Well, this is Boimler's turning point for him.
This is what Boimler's done to him.
This is the moment he's saying in his song, I opened myself up to somebody.
They are leaving me.
They've grown past me, leaving me, whatever.
It must have been something I'd done.
I need to reset myself and start again.
And that's, I think we're going to see next season, he's going to draw in on himself.
I think so.
I think we're going to start getting more of the Spock that we would have had from the
original series, which is much more, I'm going to basically concentrate on being a Vulcan
and try and be as Vulcan as I can rather than giving into my human feelings, my human side.
Yeah.
But then, okay, that brings us onto hegemony.
I know I've got problems with this.
It's a good episode.
Scotty turns up.
Was not expecting that.
Young Scotty, very young Scotty.
Two part episode though, with a God knows how long wait till we get part two.
With an actual to be continued.
2024, end of 2024.
You see that's way too long for something like, I know they had to because it would
have been a stupid long episode, but...
Well, it could be worse.
When I looked online, it said end of 2024, early 25.
Yeah.
I just think that's way too long.
But the whole idea of it is a brilliant episode.
The Gorn basically take what they want.
And we finally see an adult Gorn.
We see an adult Gorn.
It's not as good as the original series Gorn in his lovely latex suit with Kirk being him
with homemade gunpowder.
It's a Skyrim lizard man.
It's really good.
It's a really good design.
It looks creepy.
It looks violent.
It's exactly what you'd expect the Gorn to look like based on what we've been told in
the series so far.
Problems with the episode then, the bits that I didn't like.
Spock jumping over to the Enterprise to stick the rockets on, not the Enterprise, onto the
Farragut.
No, the Farragut.
That's the Star Trek I was watching today.
Whichever the ship was, I can't remember what it was called.
Why was he the only one who could do it?
Not sure.
I think it's just to do with that his body would put up with this stress better than
anyone else's.
One long term thing is Vulcan's bodies are meant to be able to withstand more.
They're meant to be stronger, better physically, everything like that.
Fine.
I understand that one.
We're just going to have a quick look.
Oh, look.
Chappell's alive.
Brilliant.
I'll save her.
Don't check around just in case any other fucking survivors there.
Oh no, my bird's there.
So you know, I hate that when shows do that.
If she survived, there are other survivors on that ship.
But no, we rescue them, we trigger the rockets and we send them all to their fiery death
blowing up the Gorn.
Thing is, because he's got to work on logic.
So even when he's got all this human stuff going, he still goes on logic.
So is the logic, she's here, I have to do this now, that this is a bonus.
Logic says I have to launch these rockets no matter what, just because you're here,
that was lucky.
Or is logic, she's alive, there could be more.
But that's not logic.
So it's not logic.
He doesn't know she's alive.
And we get that point when Una says zoom in on the ship.
Medi Bay is gone.
She's dead Spock, basically.
Trying to hammer it home to him.
So there is no logic in him going over there, hoping she's alive.
So he isn't acting on logic at that point.
Yes, he's acting on logic that I've got to be the one to go over there and put the rockets
on the ship.
I mean, when he's on the ship at the point of seeing her, does the logic then say to
him, logically, you've survived.
Yeah, but logically, somebody else could be I need to look, but that's what I should be.
But what I'm saying the caveat to that is, are they on a time limit where they have to
launch these rockets at a particular time because of the position the ship is in?
And he goes, I have to make the decision now.
Yes, I know you might have been found, but that's just luck.
No, I don't agree because the ship we know is basically in the debris field.
Yeah.
And what they're saying is, we can give it a gentle nudge.
And with the rockets, we can make that gentle nudge look like the ship is going into a deteriorated
orbit and going to crash into the land.
But what we'll do is we'll actually be remote controlling and guiding it to where we want.
So they could have triggered those rockets at any point, because basically that ship
is stationary in that debris field.
It's not going anywhere.
Yeah.
And then they're going to a degraded orbit because they've stuck the rockets on it.
Were they in a, what's the orbit where you don't move?
Geostationary.
Yeah.
Was it a geostationary orbit or is it, is the world spinning off because there will
be a window.
Yeah, but either way, they've still got the rockets on it to give it the nudge.
But the point was they didn't want the Gorn to know they were doing it.
So there's a window where they have to make it look.
No, but I would have said, it's just, it's a story, isn't it?
But it's Star Trek.
If it was me, my God, you're alive.
I'm you're the love of my life.
I get to put my Vulcan dick in you later.
Brilliant.
But you're alive.
So really we should have a quick run around and make sure there's no one else.
Absolutely agree.
Exactly.
Trikorder.
Take one with you.
Yes.
There's some life signs.
Brilliant.
We better get them as soon as we can, if we can.
No, we just send them to their fiery death.
Yeah.
That's the bit I didn't like about that.
Otherwise is brilliant.
You got Scotty doing exactly what Scotty has done in the original series, the original
series movies, TNG when he turns up, he's doing batshit crazy things that get him where
he is in the enterprise later in life.
He does what you expect of Scotty, which is he creates things and he does miracles.
Yeah.
I like how that really old, their chief engineer at the moment, that woman's like, he's like
my best student who only ever got a D or whatever.
She says something stupid like that.
Yeah.
My best student who got the worst grades.
Yeah.
And we hadn't even talked about, I love her as an actress.
Whatever she turns up in, she is always brilliant.
She was-
She's not utilised enough, I don't know.
She was in the unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, which was a genius Netflix series.
She's been in all sorts.
And yeah, you're right.
She does not get utilised enough in this series.
I'm guessing she's gone because now Scotty's there.
Let's face it, the next series is going to be-
I hopefully don't kill her off unless she gets killed off in this.
I don't think they'll kill her.
I think she'll just be, I'm 300 or 400 years, however many hundred years old I am.
It's time for me to go and do something new now.
Because basically she only turns up on the enterprise, doesn't she?
Because this is the place I need to be now, which is kind of an ongoing thing for this
series if you noticed.
It's always, this is the place I'm meant to be at this point.
Pike has it a lot, Spock has it a lot.
And I think that's what they're kind of trying to point out is it's adding into, although
they're not continuing as much going on about Pike's going to die at some point, they're
still kind of subconsciously almost saying, you're meant to be here.
Yeah.
I've just come to a realization now, I kind of fucked it in my head thinking how come
that that woman didn't acknowledge the, I call her the sing lady because I don't remember
her full name, when she come back from the past.
Because she set her on the path.
Oh, Lahn, yeah.
But this is alternate past.
So this one wouldn't know Lahn.
Exactly.
It's just coincidentally, Lahn has obviously gone back and gone to her because she knows
her as being an engineer, but that version of her never did it.
Or had she not done it at that point.
But it's a different past though, isn't it?
Yeah.
But don't forget that was...
No, it's a joint past.
It's a joint past.
Oh, you know, so I was right in my confusion.
She hadn't done engineering yet.
Yeah.
So she doesn't acknowledge the notion when she comes back.
I can't remember.
I think there's some sort of kind of cheeky exchange maybe, but I'm not sure.
But ultimately, you could say Lahn is the one that puts her onto the route of, well,
I don't want to do the antique shopping anymore.
What shall I do now?
I'll do engineering.
Yeah, quite right.
But again, really clever idea, that one.
And they did time travel really well.
It wasn't stupid, timey wimey stuff.
Yeah.
Because it felt good.
It felt real.
It felt a solid idea that they were doing.
It's how I think time travel would work.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
I agree.
I think you're right there.
I quite like the temporal police basically turning up at the end saying, thank you for
doing what you did.
Now don't tell anyone.
Is that not Wesley's lot?
Isn't that who he joins?
Is it?
I don't know.
I mean, the guys that he joins are like time travel guys.
The travelers, yeah.
I don't know.
That's kind of when she started talking, I kind of wished they actually just put Wesley
there.
How cool would that have been if she just had been like, because we all know who he
was, she wouldn't have a clue because he's from a far, far future.
True.
And he'd just be like, hi, don't talk about this.
We'd all know because we know he's a traveler.
We know the things.
But don't forget the woman that turns up is from Starfleet.
She's Starfleet in the future.
So that could well be Starfleet as in Discovery's Starfleet in the future where they've ended
up.
So it's thought it's more future for them than Discovery because they're not doing time
travel other than accidentally going into the future.
Oh, is that still all accidental at that point?
Fine.
Okay.
It's accidental the whole time pretty much.
Well, accidental kind of meant to do it.
You know what I mean?
One off.
Yeah.
So I forget you haven't seen that last season.
No, no, that's, that's, that's, it's interesting then that that's how they've, they still going
and I like it being accidental or accidentally on purpose.
Well, there's another series yet.
So time travel stuff might come back into it.
I don't know.
I always liked the idea of them being able to go back.
Well, that's, that's, that's why I do wonder if that's how Discovery will end with them
going back.
Um, just like I've always said about Discovery, you cannot just suddenly say technology that
we had was super secret and we've just forgotten about it or we don't use it anymore because
of XYZ.
I do want to go back and watch Discovery where it's got the stuff with Pike just to remind
myself exactly what was going on.
Oh, and another little cute thing with Pike, I don't know if it was in the season one,
because I've started watching them again, it's confusing me.
Someone mentions about him not having a mustache and he'd look really good with a mustache.
Oh, that's it.
It's when he sees Kirk and he's got a mustache and he's like, you look good with a mustache.
He goes, I think you'd look quite good with a mustache.
And I guess that's a nod to the films where Pike's character has a mustache.
Is it just like a joking nod?
You know, the remake films.
How does he have a mustache in there?
Pike has a mustache.
The actor who plays Pike has a mustache.
I've never noticed.
I'm pretty sure he does.
Accessing library computer data.
What are your thoughts on the modern films?
I like them, but I only like them because they are their own universe.
That's where I am with them.
I enjoy them.
I don't count them as canon.
Have I watched any of them more than once?
No.
I've watched them two or three times, all of them through.
I didn't like in out of all of them into the darkness was the one that I thought was the
most disappointing because as much as the idea of basically taking the wrath of Khan
and reversing the roles, so making it Kirk who dies rather than Spock and blah, blah,
blah, it just didn't work for me.
But the first film and whatever the third one was called, I can't remember, but they
were fun.
I enjoyed them.
Idris Elba in the third one.
I enjoyed watching them.
Idris I'd call, I'd say.
I liked them all and yeah, I'd watched them all again.
I just never, never bothered watching them again.
I didn't dislike them, but I was happy that they were their own thing.
Yes.
I'm glad they didn't try.
I know again, the second one, they had Spock as in Leonard Nimoy before he died, but even
then it's I'm from a different universe.
Yeah.
This is that's why he's hiding, which is what I like.
That was a nice way of doing it.
So yeah, swings and roundabouts, I guess with that.
I don't think it deserves the hate they get.
I think that they're like Rogue One and Star Wars.
I don't know if anybody dislikes Rogue One.
Rogue One is fantastic film.
My point is it's Star Trek for a different generation and different set of Star Wars
for a different set of people at a different generation.
Well, we've said it before, haven't we?
It's made for different people.
And those three films were made for a generation of people that may not have ever watched actual
Star Trek.
Yeah, exactly.
But that could be what their Star Trek is though.
That's their original series.
Yeah, exactly.
That is their Star Trek.
Whereas mine is TNG and yours is Voyager.
And very fast becoming Strange New Worlds actually, I would say.
It's rapidly moving up the list.
Do you think that's because it's just modern and we're into it now?
Do you think in 10 years time when you or I are still doing a Star Trek podcast that
we'll still be looking at these Strange New Worlds series in the same light?
It's interesting you say that because I will still go back and watch TNG over and over
again.
I wouldn't do that with Strange New Worlds.
I will go back and re-watch them, but I wouldn't watch them as much as I do TNG.
Because it's nostalgia or because you actually think it's better?
A little bit of A, a little bit of B. TNG is a nice safe space.
It's what I grew up with.
I enjoy the characters.
Strange New World, if I'm honest, is much better than TNG.
In many, many ways it's much better.
It's better stories.
But it doesn't have some of the innocence and the originality that TNG kind of had.
All I'd say about it with doing these past ones is it takes a large element of the fear
out of it.
Because we know they're in the universe now.
It's been put in that this is not any kind of alternate timeline.
So we know Uhura, sorry I keep hitting it.
Uhura, Pike, Spock, Scotty.
They are not going to die in any situation they get into at any point in time.
Yes, we know that.
We know.
So anything that involves them, there's no fear.
That's all.
So they can't be, I'm trying to think of the right word that I'm supposed to be using here.
But they can't be put in any situation that I'm worried about their well-being.
Other characters, absolutely.
I don't ever like saying I have a favourite character because they normally die as soon
as I say it.
But that pilot, we know who she is, clearly she is.
Both doctors, Chappell and Omega-Week.
No, Chappell was into TOS.
Oh, was she?
Yeah.
So then, well there you go, she's safe.
Whereas we know that then again the main doctor and the pilot, two of my favourite characters.
Well, Lan Loonien Sing.
Sing again, so the number one and Sing.
Oh no, number one according to Lower Decks.
We know.
Yes, she survives.
So we've got just Sing and the pilot.
And notice how Boimler didn't interact with either of those characters.
That's very true, yes.
Well that might have just been chance, you know, but sorry I keep hitting it.
It's actually caused it to go fizzy now as well.
Can you just give it a, there we go, that's better.
Better?
Sorry.
No, that's okay.
I guarantee no one will have heard that because the editing.
But I think I need to look at the connection on that mic now.
I think this needs to be pulled up here.
That's what I keep because I'm hitting it over here.
Yeah, so that's the only thing I'd say about it.
And also because of, you know, they've engaged with it so much in series one about what happens
to Pike.
Yes.
I feel like it's just.
It's run its course.
It's running over their head.
We kind of know.
And all it's done is put a timeline on the series, which I don't like.
Because we know that's going to happen.
TOS is as determined that's going to happen.
We know he ends up in a wheelchair that can only beep with a red flashing light.
That's going to happen to Pike.
And then he's going to end up on the planet and be happy.
Which seems very odd to me though, that what happens to him that he, with all of that future
technology, they can't cure him.
And what happens when he goes on a plate and gets happy?
They're going to plant a plate.
It's a TOS era episode.
I can't tell you what the aliens are.
They've all got big bulbous heads and basically they can give him a life where they can use
their telekinetic and their brain power to basically bring him back to normal.
He's still just going to be sat there in the wheelchair, but in his mind and what everyone
else will see is the illusion that he's completely healthy.
He's back to normal.
So he's still moving around in the chair, but everyone will see him standing.
I don't know.
That's too deep a dive for it.
But basically there's a woman on this planet as well that he wants to go back to who they
have done the same thing for.
So there was a lot more.
Maybe we should watch that episode.
I'd like to.
Yeah.
Cause I don't really know much about it.
I believe it's TOS the cage.
It was meant to be the pilot episode and instead they decided to go with a different episode
and that became like episode four or five later on.
Isn't Pike the captain in the pilot episode of the original series?
It's all basically what they did is the pilot got cut into clips and they used the clips
in the episode.
It's basically a legal episode.
Brock is basically being court martial for stealing the enterprise again.
And it's to get Pike back to this planet, which has been previously said, no one is
allowed to go there anymore.
The nice thing I guess is though, they've never put a formal date on it.
So you could do another 20 series of strange new things if you want and never get there.
He says about a decade, he says.
Well, 10 years is a long time for series wise.
So if you think a series is a year, that's 10 seasons.
They won't go 10 seasons.
None of these things nowadays do.
No.
I'd be surprised if it did more than three.
I'd love it to do 10 seasons, but nowadays they do three don't they?
And they're done.
Yeah.
I'd like it to get to about seven.
I think there's a rule online somewhere that says seven series is the golden point because
after series seven, it always goes downhill.
Is that the jump the shock moment of happy days?
Is that why they're saying it?
I don't know if it falls down to just happy days as well, but a lot of Trek is I think
TNG is only seven series, but there is, I dig it out at some point, but I'm sure there's
something in the saying that seven series should be the limit on any show because after
the seventh one, you have run out of ideas and it will go wrong.
It's run its course.
People have got older and you can't forever make people stay young.
Yeah.
Or they'll fuck out like Game of Thrones.
Exactly.
Did the dragons ever come?
Did you not finish it?
I never watched it.
Oh yeah, no, they fucked it up.
Nice.
Yeah.
And with that Game of Thrones bombshell.
Command functions are offline.
It's a lot everybody.
I hope you enjoyed your first Trek talk, whatever we're going to call this.
Trek talk seems a bit close to trash talk for me.
So I get a bit talk Trek.
Yeah.
You know, they're kind of rabbit guys.
I've got that trash talk.
Have you listened to their new ones?
I've been, I've binged them for the last few days and they've got that trash talk.
I love it.
I think it's hilarious.
The channel 84 variety show data's brain.
I do quite like the idea of a long winded, ridiculous thing.
I really love that.
The game knockout one.
I really do.
I think of something, but for now we'll just call it Trek talk.
It probably ended up staying Trek talk.
Maybe I'll just get the KRP guys to give us an intro.
It'd just be them going Trek talk.
Okay.
I don't know.
I'll ask them.
Right.
Well, you can find us on channel84.co.uk.
You can email us on podcasts at channel84.co.uk, TJ at channel84.co.uk or Robert channel84.co.uk.
Social media wise, you can find us on Twitter, Instagram, Tik Tok, Blue Sky, threads all
on underscore at underscore channel 84 or at flat Rob.
That's pretty much everything.
Cheerio goodbye.
Beam me up Scotty.
Bye.
Thank you for listening to the channel 84 variety show.
This station is now shutting down and we'll be back in two weeks.
Take care.
Have a great week.