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Welcome to Making Data Matter.

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We have conversations about data,

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leadership at mission-driven organizations,

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practical insights into nonprofit mission,

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strategy data, and anything else we find interesting.

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I'm your host, Sawyer Nyquist.

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I'm your co-host, Troy Dueck.

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Today, I'm excited to welcome to the show Matt Benford.

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Matt, welcome to the show.

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Welcome.

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Thank you, guys. Thank you.

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Thank you. Thanks for having me.

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For folks just meeting you,

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Matt, give us a little background about who you are and what you do.

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Yeah. My name is Matt.

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I am the Chief Financial Officer of Sonoma Can or Sonoma Community Action Network.

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I spend a lot of time in that role of accounting and finance.

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Accounting, looking back and finance, looking forward,

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and how to make, I would say,

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data-informed decisions with how we repurpose and allocate dollars.

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So that's a lot of my world.

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A lot of my time,

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the group that I work with is more community-centric and getting

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resources into the hands of people who need it,

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so we can provide some equitable transformation in the places that we serve.

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So that's a little bit about my world.

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Yeah. I love it.

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So let's start. I want to do a little bit more.

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Tell me about what the community action partnership is like,

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or more specifically about the type of work that you do in Sonoma County.

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Yeah. So Sonoma County is a little bit,

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you're positioning it on a map.

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It's a little bit north of San Francisco,

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about an hour and a half north of San Francisco.

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And what the community action agencies are really designed to do

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is to rally around those who need support in these different clusters.

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And a lot of the time, it's based on county,

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but there are some private groups that support families

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with the resources that they need to move forward in life.

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A lot of the groups that we work with

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have some kind of challenge or hurdle

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that they need a hand in helping to address.

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And so as a whole, the community action agencies,

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community action networks, partnerships were established back in the 50s

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throughout with the use of federal funds

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and continue to this day be funded by the government

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through community services block grants that you may have heard about.

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So anyways, for our group,

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we focus on the footprint of Sonoma County.

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And our goal is to really help ensure

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that families are, like I said,

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moving along a path of equitable transformation.

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And what that simply means is we embrace a whole family approach, right?

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Not adjusting just one specific need,

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but having the ability or capacity to help with a variety of needs

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that are all interlinked in some way for families

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that are interlinked in a way so that families can move forward

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with the resources they need.

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So for instance, early childhood education is a really big one

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for students and kids and our families that otherwise

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wouldn't have access to some of the more appropriate

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or supplemental educational resources.

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Or we also talk about in that model asset allocation.

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How do we provide housing or housing supports, financial stability

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to families that are struggling, moving place to place,

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or some even struggling with housing insecurity that way?

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So asset building, ECE, or early childhood education,

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health and wellness has become a big one over the last few years,

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both behaviorally, mentally, and then physical health.

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So we provide those connections and supports

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for the families that need them.

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And then social capital, simply how we define being able to connect

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others to a network of resources.

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So if you've experienced or have the benefit from what we've provided

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or what a community action has provided or any other network

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has provided, that we can connect you with continuing resources

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that would make sure that you are moving along

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the path of transformation.

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So that's kind of the programmatic side.

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That's how we support all of this.

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But as you would realize, doing all this,

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it costs money for everything to be put online.

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And so that's my role in making sure that all those resources

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are allocated appropriately.

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We have a ton of federal funding that we make sure to monitor

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so that we don't misallocate and that we can continue

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to create those trajectories of financial resource to our families.

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So yeah, I know that's a mouthful.

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And there's a lot there, but that's kind of what we do.

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Yeah.

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How do the needs or environmental or economic factors

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of Sonoma County differ from a city like San Francisco

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or other urban environments?

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What are some specific things around Sonoma County

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that are maybe unique challenges or unique opportunities

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that you guys have?

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Yeah, in my experience, Sawyer, before coming to be the CFO here,

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I was with the United Way, their Bay Area chapter in San Francisco.

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And really big push in SF and the surrounding areas,

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Oakland, was housing.

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And so we spent a lot of funds, a lot of time

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focusing on housing initiatives.

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As I've arrived north of San Francisco to Sonoma County,

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the difference isn't as pronounced, which

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is to say housing is a huge piece of what we do in housing

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and addressing housing insecurity.

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And while I would say there's more resources in San Francisco,

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just by nature of it being a major city,

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the felt need on the outskirts of major metropolitan areas

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is still pronounced and even to some extent more dire

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than in these major hubs.

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Because I think in the major hubs, you can deploy resources faster.

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There's more resources to deploy.

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And the data that governs how we approach that work

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is very consolidated to those hubs.

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Whereas when you get into the outskirts,

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a lot of work has to be done to pull together resources and network

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and find funding opportunities so that we can still

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address the same type of needs.

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And I think what we found, too, is that as people exit those mass centers,

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LA, San Francisco, Oakland, and look for some kind of relief

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in the surrounding areas, the prices are still being driven higher.

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And the need is becoming much more pronounced.

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And so I'd say in short, housing initiatives

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are really important for us.

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And because of that, we're not just, I mean,

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I think that's a symptom of a bigger issue where

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we're talking about financial stability

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and how do we create pathways for gainful employment?

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How do we create pathways for families to thrive,

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not just in their housing situation, which

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feeds into a bunch of different challenges

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when you're experiencing insecurity that way,

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but how do we help to address the different problems that come along,

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including housing and housing insecurity?

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So yeah, I think I've seen that be really pronounced over the last,

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I'd say, five or seven years that I've been kind of monitoring that space,

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or been in that space, I should say.

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This is awesome stuff to hear about the work that you can do right there

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in your community.

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And I'm thinking about how private nonprofit organizations are often

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using some kind of state or federal funding.

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And what often comes with that, some might call it shackles,

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but let's not suggest negative viewpoints here.

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But it does come with, as you are using those funds,

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you have to then report back how you're using those funds.

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And there's that compliance aspect of reporting.

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And so I'm just curious and wanted to explore with you,

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how do you use data to make informed decisions

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and aren't just caught up in the, well, we

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need to report on this because it's part of our compliance requirements.

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Like, yes, I want to do that and be held accountable well for these funds,

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but I want to be able to take that reporting and mature on it

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so that I can actually make data-informed decisions

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for our organization.

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So explore that with me.

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What's that look like for you and your role,

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and how have you been able to impact that to mature beyond simply

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checking the box of compliance?

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100%.

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Great question, Troy.

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And I think what's important for me in that area is twofold.

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As a leader in the organization, obviously, the compliance piece,

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there's a ton of that.

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There's a ton of monitoring.

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There's a ton of auditing.

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And so from a data perspective, making sure that we've set our systems up

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so that we can report out very quickly is important for me.

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The longer that we lag or our inability to produce reports

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for compliance purposes, the longer that takes,

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the more flags that start to exist with the state

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and with the federal government.

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But outside of that, what I'm excited for with what we're doing

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is that we're not only taking that data and putting it

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into our single audit or some of the monitorings that we have,

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but we're actually making it actionable.

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So for instance, last year, we started

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as a cohort of nonprofits in our county, where we realized

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that the services that are being provided

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by different kinds of nonprofits, whether they're

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community actions like ourselves or health-based, behavior health-based

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nonprofits or any other profit in between that's

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kind of focusing on this whole family approach, mental health

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wellness, child education, everything I was talking about earlier.

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We realized that there were families that were having to get resources

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at different spots through different agencies

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and having to fill out the same kind of information each time.

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And for some, that's at best is kind of a pain in the neck to do each time.

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And for others, it surfaces trauma to really talk about how you're

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experiencing poverty or to be able to talk through these experiences

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that is part of the intake program.

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And it's a barrier to entry, right?

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And it's a barrier to entry.

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Sometimes they aren't going to do it at multiple places.

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I've done it once, and that's all I can handle.

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And so they can't get the help that they need.

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Exactly.

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And so that's exactly it.

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And so what we ended up saying was, how can we take funds

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and apply for funding, grant funding, to create a resource connection

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network whereby we would create, you all probably heard this before,

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but UDIP, Universal Data Intake Programs.

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How do we create that where, and essentially as we talk about it,

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there's no wrong door to approaching the services that you would need

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from a particular nonprofit.

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And so how do we share that data and create that kind of system

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amongst our partners so that when a person, if Matt comes in and says,

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I need these kinds of services, that when I fill that form out,

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that's information that exists in a system that if I were to go somewhere

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else to get services, that that can be pulled down and applied.

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So we are in year two of the implementation of that with a small group

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of nonprofits, and I'm really excited for it.

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A lot of what I've seen in the past is, like I said, disparate intake systems.

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Over here, over there, and it creates barriers, like you said.

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It exposes traumatic experiences.

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It's hard to navigate.

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And it's sometimes very confusing and very time consuming.

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So all those checkboxes are just the opposite of what we're trying to do

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to create efficiency.

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So we want to change that.

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And I think the transformation around building those systems has been great.

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And having the ability to be supportive of not only our community members,

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but to work with other nonprofits to do that has been pretty awesome.

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One follow up question on that is, does your office,

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being the finance focused office, are you responsible

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for most of the data work directly?

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Or are you partnering with a data team within your organization

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to produce these kinds of reports and think through these kinds

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of application efficiencies?

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I'm just trying to get a better lay of the land right in your organization.

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We're partnering for sure.

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There's enough every coming out of my office that we have to manage.

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But we have a compliance team that kind of has put that together

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and a data team that has worked on a lot of those items.

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But obviously, there's that connection that we need to have.

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And so that's kind of our setup now.

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I'm very, very tight knit with our COO and his crew

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that's running that entire thing.

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You mentioned one thing in there when you talked about kind of the more

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government funds is you talked about having really efficient reporting

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or being able to do it fast, like quickly.

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What does that look like to what have you learned?

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Like, what is it like when it's slow?

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How have you made that effective and efficient reporting

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from that standpoint?

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Yeah, without getting into too much detail,

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one of the things that I realized over the course of my career

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is that finance fuels impact.

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And so the best way for us to ensure that we're feeling that impact

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is to create the systems that facilitate it.

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So by and large for us, at least for my office,

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is our accounting systems.

253
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And because we share data and financial data,

254
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,840
programmatic data across the agency, our finance system

255
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,400
has to support a lot of that, both from a quantitative standpoint

256
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,440
and even in some cases qualitative.

257
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:21,320
And so for us, it was rebuilding the way

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00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,040
that we code items into our financial system.

259
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:31,600
By and large, it was a, for me, Sawyer and Troy,

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00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,840
I like to think about finance in a decentralized manner.

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Like, it's how do we make sure that while my office is

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00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,840
the champion of the accounting and finance portions

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00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,200
that we've democratized it in a way so that directors

264
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,520
and senior managers and the rest can access and make

265
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,440
those decisions for themselves.

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00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,240
And so we've created a coding system that

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helps move that process faster.

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We deal with several hundred thousand transactions a month.

269
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And there's no way that anyone in my office

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00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,960
is going to be able to parse that out to figure out,

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00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,840
Sawyer, your expense requests from three months ago

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00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,000
just got approved and they got coded correctly.

273
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,360
That's something that should be in the hands of your manager

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00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,680
and the directors and budget leaders

275
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,240
who are managing the grant.

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And so if we are able to support you in coding that,

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that makes it a lot faster than us trying to comb through data

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00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,120
to make sure that we've gotten it all right.

279
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,800
And so finance has now taken this very centralized approach

280
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,960
and has made it decentralized where now we

281
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,560
are business partners with a lot of the programmatic areas

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00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,240
around our agency.

283
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,560
And that makes it a lot faster for us to report.

284
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Because we can say, hey, we're getting our audit,

285
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,640
we're getting our desk monitoring is coming in,

286
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,440
or whatever kind of review is happening.

287
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,320
These are the transactions that are in question

288
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,680
tell me about them.

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00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,160
And we can get those answers very quickly

290
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,200
and I can speak with confidence to the auditors who

291
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,760
come knocking on my door before it even

292
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,520
gets to our programmatic folks, which allows

293
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:08,840
them to be more efficient.

294
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,120
So as long as we are able to be partners with them,

295
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,400
we can answer these questions.

296
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,280
And Sawyer, the other piece of the question

297
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,400
was, what does it look like when it's slow?

298
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,920
When it's slow, we're not pulling those reports down.

299
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,560
We're not being able to understand

300
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,120
these transactions or miscoding or reclasses

301
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,880
and things like that.

302
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,600
But I'd say primarily with the coding structure that we have,

303
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,880
it's produced more efficiencies and more insight

304
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,280
than the agency has had in the prior time

305
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:46,440
on how to make decisions for that specific program.

306
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,960
My team and the rest of the C-suite leaders

307
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,240
look at it at a broad level, strategically

308
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,960
to say how do we then move the agency forward

309
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,600
towards whatever initiative that would be

310
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,480
next on the horizon for us.

311
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:03,600
Now, Matt, I bet that took trust to get to that point.

312
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,320
I'm thinking most departments think of their data

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00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,680
as they're the owners of their data.

314
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,400
And building that trust to let other people actually

315
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,120
start seeing that data, make some level of decision

316
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:19,760
on that data, can be a bit scary when

317
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,320
you get more decentralized and democratizing the data

318
00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,000
around the organization.

319
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,240
How did you get there?

320
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,320
Or were you there when you came in

321
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:30,720
and you got to build on something?

322
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,680
Tell us that side of the story.

323
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:33,560
By no means.

324
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,400
Yeah, I think for us coming, for me,

325
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,400
I've been there just a little over a year.

326
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,080
And so coming into the role, it's

327
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:47,560
been a process to ensure trust, right,

328
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,160
that what we're looking to do makes sense.

329
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,320
And I say that the move from centralized to decentralized

330
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,800
finance, the agency was firmly based in a centralized manner.

331
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,680
Hey, finance will take care of you.

332
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,320
And that put a lot of capacity in our teams.

333
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,400
And it was a grind for us.

334
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,280
And so when I came in and saw this

335
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,560
with the partnership of our CEO, we made that.

336
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,640
We're making that switch.

337
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,360
And systematically, we've done it.

338
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:16,120
The mental piece is always like the behavioral piece,

339
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:17,880
the practical piece, is something we're always

340
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:18,720
driven home.

341
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,160
No, no, no, no.

342
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,320
You help me make these decisions.

343
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,880
This is your budget.

344
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,640
How can we support you in making those decisions around what

345
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,080
you'll do next or what questions do you have on it?

346
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,840
A lot of time, Troy, we have folks

347
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,920
who are very experienced in budget management

348
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,480
based on their experience and others that are new to role,

349
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,160
new to management, new to this kind of world.

350
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,480
So a lot of time, we're partnering that way.

351
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,200
And I think over the past year, it's

352
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,480
created a lot of traction that we can look at finance

353
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,160
and say, hey, what's Matt and the team up to?

354
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,680
Where can I get a slot on Matt's calendar, which is very small?

355
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,320
But where can I be available to just ask a question?

356
00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:59,440
We're lucky today.

357
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:00,480
That's what I heard.

358
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,880
We got an hour on Matt's time.

359
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,000
I made time for this one.

360
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:03,760
This is good.

361
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:04,480
This is good.

362
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,640
But being supportive has given a lot of confidence

363
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,680
to those team members.

364
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,960
And then I think in turn, because we've

365
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,600
seen how fast we can create reports or answer compliance

366
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,240
questions and then make decisions,

367
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,720
it does a little bit to move the trust needle

368
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,720
to the next level.

369
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,400
So yeah, I think it's always constant.

370
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:30,480
It's a constant thing.

371
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:31,760
I don't think we've ever arrived,

372
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,640
but it's a movement for sure.

373
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,840
And one side of the coin that we've been talking about

374
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,800
is the efficiency and the trust bleeding that comes from that.

375
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,320
But efficiency is about cost saving.

376
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,840
And it makes us using our dollars better.

377
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:44,880
But then the other side of that was,

378
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:45,680
I think you started talking about it.

379
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,240
It's like, how do you make decisions

380
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,200
within the strategic and the impact?

381
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,520
You said finance drives impact.

382
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,640
So that if we're doing efficient processes and saving money

383
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,160
or be more effective, then what is the impact

384
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,240
or the strategic and decision making part

385
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,000
that comes out of that or out of data that you see?

386
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,240
I think maybe I'll talk about it like this.

387
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,840
The stakes, if we get it wrong, is misallocation of resource.

388
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,960
That we're not addressing a need that's felt

389
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,960
or we're addressing the wrong problem.

390
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,960
And I think if we approach it from a standpoint

391
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,760
of mitigating risk by allocating resources appropriately,

392
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,440
that kind of bubbles up to show us where we continue

393
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,960
to need to focus on the allocation of resources.

394
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,360
So for example, I was talking earlier

395
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,520
about how housing is super important for us.

396
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,880
What that means is that we need more dollars

397
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,880
to go towards that initiative.

398
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,240
So that doesn't just mean like the dollars

399
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,080
that we have to grant out or dollars that we have

400
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:54,080
to conduct surveys or pass through funds

401
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,280
from the federal or state governments.

402
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,080
It also means the capacity at which our team needs

403
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,760
to operate to support those kinds of efforts.

404
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,960
And many times, if we don't understand the full costs,

405
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,360
we end up revving past our capacity threshold.

406
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:19,360
We can't afford to do it because we have two little folks,

407
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:24,120
smaller teams that can't afford to manage entire caseloads.

408
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:27,520
That we're not thinking about our revenue models

409
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,000
appropriately on how we will provide fee for service.

410
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,400
And so I think when we're talking

411
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,280
about how to allocate resources,

412
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,160
we're considering what's the need,

413
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,240
what have we seen the need be in the past?

414
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,920
What's our vision for addressing this need in the community

415
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,920
and where are we gonna find the funding?

416
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,480
We can't say yes to everything.

417
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,440
And so we have to prioritize how we do it.

418
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,040
And I think that's the strategic way

419
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,360
that we think about moving the agency forward.

420
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:00,000
We can't do everything at once.

421
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,600
So what do we focus on?

422
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,680
And I think as we look at our data and how,

423
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,920
again, going back to those universal intake forms,

424
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,760
where are we seeing the most need?

425
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,560
Housing is popping up for us.

426
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,680
Mental health and wellness is popping up for us

427
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:17,320
as a big piece for how we are seeing the need.

428
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,200
And then we're asking, well, where can we find funding

429
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,000
and how do we step through this

430
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,000
to support those people that are showing that felt need?

431
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,960
And a lot of the time, because we're a nonprofit,

432
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,000
resources are scarce.

433
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,320
That's kind of the risk that for at least for our agency,

434
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,120
like we're largely government funded.

435
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:40,160
And so that funding doesn't change year to year to year.

436
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,000
And so we have to figure out good ways to make sure

437
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,840
that we're keeping that administrative costs lower

438
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,880
or understanding the capacity for our administrative team

439
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,240
and our infrastructure team really as a whole

440
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,840
to deliver on some of those programs

441
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,520
that would continue to benefit the community.

442
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,800
So it's a delicate balance for sure.

443
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,400
Is there a sort of cadence

444
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,360
where you're evaluating strategic initiatives?

445
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,200
And like, as you think about asset allocations

446
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,760
is that quarterly, is that monthly, is that daily?

447
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:09,600
I don't know.

448
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,360
Like, how do you think about like in terms of assessing

449
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,200
and iterating over, are we putting dollars

450
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,880
in the right places?

451
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,640
Yeah, I think a lot of the time,

452
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,120
we're in a really cool spot, I would say,

453
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:24,440
because our executive team is newer to the organization.

454
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,440
So that evaluation is happening more frequently

455
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,680
than it happened in the past, I would say.

456
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,360
I don't know that there's any particular cadence

457
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:33,600
that we would sit down and say, all right,

458
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,560
let's look at all this data and say what's coming next.

459
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,440
But there's definitely a pulse that we're catching.

460
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,400
And I think that as we understand periods of performance

461
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,480
for certain grants and renewals for how they come through,

462
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,480
we're able to say, okay, what can we do more with this?

463
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,280
Or as we talk with other community partners,

464
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,640
we're even understanding from kind of anecdotally,

465
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,320
hey, what's happening here?

466
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,600
Or, well, we're seeing this, we're seeing that.

467
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,520
And now we're able to leverage that to apply for funding.

468
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,520
Funders are just really, really focused on joint efforts

469
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,240
for nonprofits to support initiatives in the community.

470
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,120
So we're partnering with others on initiatives and grants

471
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:19,840
and writing these things together

472
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,320
for either pass through or joint funding

473
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,120
that will help support the need.

474
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:27,560
And so a lot of it is understanding, all right,

475
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:28,800
what are we seeing?

476
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,720
What are other organizations seeing?

477
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,000
What's the data saying to us,

478
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,520
at least from what we have coming into our system?

479
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,000
And again, we're still learning

480
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,480
how to make sense of all of it,

481
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:38,480
but all those things together

482
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,640
kind of give us our move forward to say that,

483
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,640
hey, maybe now is not the time to focus on,

484
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,560
let me put it like this,

485
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,840
our Community Action Partnership is kind of focused on

486
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,280
that whole family approach.

487
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:53,920
There are other Community Action Partnerships

488
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,600
that are mainly focused on maybe out east

489
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,280
that are focused on weatherization

490
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,720
and being able to clean energy

491
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,720
and being able to fund those kinds of efforts for businesses

492
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,960
and our communities that would need that kind of support

493
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,840
whether they're in a disaster prone area, right?

494
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,440
For us it's the fires, but for others it could be

495
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,960
hurricane season or tornado season, that kind of thing.

496
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,200
And so they have a different type of focus.

497
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,440
And so that says to us,

498
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,280
hey, we're not gonna focus on that.

499
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,040
We're gonna focus on what's pressing

500
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,600
for our community at the time.

501
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,720
And then following up on that,

502
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,000
what does success look like?

503
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,800
If you're gonna use data and measure success,

504
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,800
I think we're kind of maybe talking about it,

505
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,880
but I wanna really zoom in on this

506
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,880
and focus on in your words,

507
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,520
how would you define success for whatever

508
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,320
that particular season is of the work that you're doing?

509
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,800
Yeah, I think there's a number of ways

510
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,600
I think we define it.

511
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,520
For instance, for us, it's more around families served

512
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,200
and with what service, right?

513
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,640
So if we're thinking through this kind of

514
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,280
universally intake system,

515
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,080
what was our goal for the families that we wanted to serve

516
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,080
and how many did we serve?

517
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,080
I think a particular note is when we start to talk

518
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,480
about healthcare or I should say behavioral health

519
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,280
and mental health services,

520
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,840
there's a lot of money that comes to the state for that.

521
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,080
A lot of money that comes to federal funding for that.

522
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,360
And so the barometer is kind of given to us.

523
00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:36,560
This is what you should be looking for,

524
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,600
and this is what you need to kind of go by.

525
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,120
And like we were talking about earlier,

526
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:41,280
not just from a compliance,

527
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,440
mainly from a compliance standpoint,

528
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,840
but for us, we're using it to determine

529
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,840
how we then approach escalating those kinds of services.

530
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:55,200
So how many contacts are we making a month?

531
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,240
How many calls are we making a month?

532
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,680
At what increment are we making those calls?

533
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:02,680
For our case managers,

534
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,720
what kind of resources are they being provided

535
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,800
on a regular basis to support

536
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,640
with the different cases that they have?

537
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,160
We've recently started blood pressure screenings

538
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,080
as part of the intake so that we can have that data available

539
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,040
for our health and wellness teams.

540
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,760
And so success is really ticking those boxes

541
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,600
because what it means is that we're doing everything

542
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,200
that we can to connect our families with resources, right?

543
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,600
If we're not ticking those boxes,

544
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,840
that means we're missing a piece of information

545
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,840
that could be beneficial for that person or that family

546
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,280
to get resources that could be unlocked

547
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,800
if we would have had it.

548
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,960
So I think we're defining success by touch points.

549
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,480
I think we're defining it by services provided.

550
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,800
I think we're defining it by,

551
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,080
in our early childhood education programs,

552
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,840
kids served, number of kids served.

553
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,200
Even in that world, we're thinking about meals

554
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,880
and how many meals are served on a daily basis.

555
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,040
And that's all information that goes back

556
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,600
to the government, obviously, but we're able to say,

557
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,960
all right, if we're serving these amount of kids

558
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,320
with these kinds of meals,

559
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,440
how do we leverage that into more high quality meals

560
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,480
or supplement that for more nutritious meals?

561
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,480
The same thing for, I would say that's for our elementary

562
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:22,720
and for our preschool.

563
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,000
And I'm really excited for that

564
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,760
in the sense that we've pivoted that

565
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,520
to take federal funding and show the need

566
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,600
so that we can supplement state funding for that program.

567
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,840
So that allows for our classrooms to be open longer

568
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,120
so that we can support families

569
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,640
that where parents aren't able to get off work

570
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,400
or work in the different hours

571
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,080
that their kids would have childcare

572
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:51,760
in an educational context.

573
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,600
And what does that mean?

574
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,960
That means that not only are we sick in this box,

575
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,640
or early childhood education,

576
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,960
we're ticking this other box on workforce pathways

577
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:01,960
as far as our whole family approach is concerned,

578
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,360
because now parents and guardians are able to spend more time

579
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,960
making more money so that they can, again,

580
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,120
deploy those resources for themselves

581
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,440
towards equitable transformation in the community.

582
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,240
So we're doing a lot that we,

583
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,480
I'd say that address that issue.

584
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,400
And for us, it's different data points

585
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,960
and different metrics that kind of exist

586
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,000
across the different programs, specifically.

587
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,560
But I think from my vantage point,

588
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,120
we're looking at it on how does a family

589
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,720
move through the model

590
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,680
and what things need to be considered as they do that.

591
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,360
And so family serve is always going to be

592
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,680
something important to me as I'm looking at it.

593
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,440
But specifically, as you kind of drill in,

594
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,240
you'll see that our health and wellness is focused on,

595
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,880
case manager, or health and wellness case managers

596
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,720
are focused on calls made, contact, touch points,

597
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:55,560
that kind of thing.

598
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,600
Our early childhood education folks

599
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,760
are focused on meals served, kids served, that kind of thing.

600
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,480
So it's very nuanced and very specific,

601
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,600
but it all works together.

602
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:05,800
That's awesome.

603
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,760
You just described a two-way street,

604
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,320
because earlier in the conversation,

605
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,160
you talked about decentralizing the finance data

606
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,600
to get it into the hands of those

607
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,400
that are managing their budgets and doing the operations

608
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,440
and making some strategic calls around their expenses

609
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,840
and things like that.

610
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,040
But then you also just now talked about how

611
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,960
you got to collect data from all those operational units

612
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,960
on measuring, well, how many people got served?

613
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,680
How many people are in this education program

614
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,600
or this health program or whatever it is?

615
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,240
And that's not something you're directly interested in,

616
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,240
but it is so indirectly related to where you allocate dollars,

617
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,160
you need to know where that is.

618
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,520
So how do you translate that?

619
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,160
Okay, these KPIs of members served

620
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,400
and education programs up and running

621
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,640
and all those other KPIs that are very operational,

622
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,920
how do you translate that into those dollars

623
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:03,880
in your reporting?

624
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,840
I'm curious what that looks like for you.

625
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,160
Yeah, so I think there's the external

626
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,600
and the internal component of that.

627
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,440
And I think before you get to any of it,

628
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,000
again, that partnership where it's like,

629
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,480
hey, how do we in finance,

630
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,640
how do we kind of insert ourselves into these conversations?

631
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,440
I think that that's the way that we're able to support.

632
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,000
But what I found is that as we're inserting ourselves

633
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,360
into this conversation, not only are we giving information

634
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,840
on like budget numbers and spend and that kind of thing,

635
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,320
but we're also getting information,

636
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,120
because we'll come back and have to sign off.

637
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,040
And I'm sure you both have seen before,

638
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,120
like we produce these reports that go up to the state

639
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,040
or to the feds, they're looking both

640
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,920
the fiscal side and the programmatic side

641
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:48,920
on the same report.

642
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,160
So we're having to collaborate

643
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,880
to put this information together.

644
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,080
And I think that as we do that, we're able to see like,

645
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,840
oh, okay, so there was X amount of kids served

646
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,600
and that translates to this amount of spend in the quarter

647
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,720
or the month of the period.

648
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,520
So that would mean this, you know,

649
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,160
so we're actually taking that to the next step,

650
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,160
not just for, again, not just for the compliance purpose,

651
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,040
but we're rolling that up.

652
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,840
So when I get the data, we're able to talk

653
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,280
with our finance committee around what does this report

654
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,400
tell us about what we're doing, right?

655
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,600
Because we're trying to move our group out of,

656
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,080
well, these are X dollars and we have this budget

657
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,480
and we perform this way.

658
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,960
And this is, you know, we're trying to move away from that

659
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,800
to say, this is how we perform it.

660
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,840
This is why it happened, you know,

661
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,640
and this is what's being able,

662
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,960
this is what we're excited about.

663
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,960
And if, you know, if there's a discrepancy between that data

664
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,400
that we're producing in these reports,

665
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,320
we're able to explain it for whatever reason,

666
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,960
whether it's a new initiative coming online

667
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,280
that we're running a little hot on,

668
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,800
or, you know, overpaced on, that we can say,

669
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,960
hey, this is startup or it's implementation for this

670
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,240
and this is what we're projecting out.

671
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,520
So I think that's the financial piece of it

672
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,120
that is firmly within my office,

673
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,280
but also supported by the data that our,

674
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,560
you know, our chief program officer is able to provide

675
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,160
to us around housing, workforce pathways,

676
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,160
early childhood education, health and wellness,

677
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,880
you know, social capital, that kind of thing.

678
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,760
So I would say, you know, how do we do that

679
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,560
and what does that mean for our reporting

680
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,760
internally and externally?

681
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,480
It means that it's more comprehensive.

682
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,160
It's more, it's more integrated, it's thought out,

683
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,000
it's produced in a manner that says,

684
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,880
we are focused on our allocations of resources

685
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,480
and here's how we did it, right?

686
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,760
Instead of just kind of saying it and looking at numbers,

687
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,600
you can't really parse out allocations that way.

688
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,760
You know, I could blow it out for you,

689
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,040
I could show you each grant we have and you know, whatever,

690
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,640
but you know, a lot of times we don't have time for that,

691
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,480
you know, in these short meetings that we have

692
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,400
with our boards and with our committees.

693
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,720
So how do we make it simple?

694
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,600
How do we make it digestible?

695
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:52,720
How does it become actionable?

696
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,760
How do you feel informed?

697
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,520
How do you then, as a board member,

698
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,480
talk about it in the communities that you have influence in?

699
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,160
So I think helping to roll all those items up

700
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,200
has been a real big piece of the work that we do

701
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,080
at the executive level and really just the nature

702
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,320
of community action partnerships across the nation.

703
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,680
It's just, it's really tied together, I'd say.

704
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,880
Matt, you're just, you're articulating a,

705
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,480
at least a vision or an ethos about like how data

706
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,840
and how you think about strategy and action

707
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,760
at your organization.

708
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,000
I'm just curious, like based on the different organizations

709
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,600
you've worked at and all the different organizations

710
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:30,720
you interact with, how have you noticed

711
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:33,920
how different organizations approach data differently

712
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,040
or maybe their appetite, their interest,

713
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:37,760
their level of investment?

714
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,920
Yeah, how they approach data differently

715
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,760
from what you've seen.

716
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:41,600
So I think you have a very clear vision

717
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:42,440
of what this would look like

718
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,280
and the cultures developed with you.

719
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,720
What does it look like at different organizations

720
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:47,320
you've been at or you interact with?

721
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,840
Yeah, it's way different.

722
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,640
I think each one has a flavor,

723
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,120
and I think for my time at different organizations,

724
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:01,120
the focus on data governance or being able to create

725
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,240
some infrastructure around how we handle data is varied.

726
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:11,200
And I think that it's by and large due to funding

727
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,920
in that area, being able to find skilled professionals

728
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,720
that can build that type of infrastructure

729
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,000
that helps us to support it.

730
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,400
And other times, we've had the resources

731
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,960
and it's just been a pain to implement it correctly,

732
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,960
or maybe not correctly, but in a way

733
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,400
that provides the most relevant data.

734
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,440
And out of all the agencies I've been a part of,

735
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,520
the ones that have struggled with data

736
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,720
and struggled with making data-informed decisions

737
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,960
have been agencies that have siloed the work.

738
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,640
Well, that's just the data thing, right?

739
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,840
Just have our data folks put it all together.

740
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:53,480
And it's not just data, but it's siloed approach to programs,

741
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,600
how to approach to finance and ops and data

742
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,840
and everything else.

743
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,560
And when you have those siloed approaches,

744
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,960
no one's talking to each other about what needs to be produced.

745
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,160
And all of a sudden, when it's time to,

746
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,920
the auditors are knocking in annually

747
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,800
or the reviews happen, hour scramble,

748
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,160
trying to figure out how do we pull and where is this

749
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,840
and what's that and so on and so on.

750
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,680
And I think that those have been challenging organizations

751
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,200
to be a part of because not only does a siloed work

752
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,200
happen functionally, but the vision for shared services,

753
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,120
shared data, shared finance, shared infrastructure,

754
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,480
is not articulated from leadership.

755
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,480
And so for me, I'm very focused on breaking down those silos

756
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,280
so that information is shared in a way.

757
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Obviously within compliance and considering the privacy pieces,

758
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,560
especially as we talk about mental health

759
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,280
or health services even, but internally to say,

760
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,320
we need to democratize this in a way that helps people

761
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,760
in our organization move quicker

762
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,040
through the work that they do, more efficient,

763
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,560
and in a way that pulls it all together

764
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,240
so that we can present a unified front to funders

765
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,400
when we're seeking more resources to allocate

766
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,840
to those that we're serving.

767
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,400
Yeah, like I just think about if I am somebody

768
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,040
and I get included in those data

769
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:14,680
and I have insights into what's going on

770
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,960
and I can kind of see both from finance

771
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,240
and other operational data points,

772
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:21,640
like I get more bought in and I can make better decisions

773
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,600
and I can collaborate better with my peers

774
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:26,280
across different business units.

775
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,760
And I guess that would probably spark a lot more efficiency

776
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,880
and also strategic impact

777
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,640
when you have organizations operating.

778
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,480
But I get scared, Sawyer,

779
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,160
because now you're looking at my data,

780
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,280
making decisions about my data when...

781
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:40,840
Troy, we're on the same team, though.

782
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,840
We're not.

783
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,800
But that's a common reaction to democratized data

784
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,120
is I don't want people looking at my data

785
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,560
and thinking that they know how to interpret it properly.

786
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,960
They're going to misinterpret it.

787
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,600
They're going to mishandle it.

788
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,640
And that's where that trust piece comes in.

789
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,600
I don't know, Matt, if you want to speak to this.

790
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:00,600
Well, I think...

791
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,560
But that is a visceral response that can come

792
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,840
where some people are all ready to share

793
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,280
and democratize the data and collaborate together.

794
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,680
And other people are like,

795
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,520
eh, you don't touch my stuff.

796
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,800
Like, that's my stuff. You leave that alone.

797
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,120
So how do you break those silos down?

798
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,000
Yeah, I think you're 100% right.

799
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,840
And I think that, you know, for me,

800
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:29,240
what I've learned in my career is being curious, right?

801
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:31,880
Like, it starts with a question, right?

802
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,600
You know, tell me about, you know,

803
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,400
tell me about this piece of data

804
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:36,720
or tell me about these families

805
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,560
or this metric that you all use.

806
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:39,680
What's that about?

807
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,360
And that, to me, that disarms a lot of the,

808
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,720
hey, this is mine, versus, okay, well, you know,

809
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,960
this is a leader asking a question of me

810
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,800
because, and I'll preface it by saying,

811
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,360
I have no clue what this is, you know?

812
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,080
So why don't you tell me about it?

813
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,120
And I don't put on any airs of, you know,

814
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,000
having to know everything about the organization.

815
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,160
I don't. And I think that's why, you know, in my role,

816
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:09,240
I have to be very curious and be able to ask good questions

817
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:11,040
to be able to support the agency.

818
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,080
And so when I'm able to do that across each program,

819
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,200
all of a sudden I've broken down some of those silos.

820
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,240
And then I can say, you know,

821
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,120
hey, that piece of data you just showed me

822
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,640
about family served,

823
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,080
that sounds similar to what our case managers are doing,

824
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,120
you know, in health and wellness, you know?

825
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,200
Is there a way to connect these two dots

826
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,200
so that the metric that you are trying to move forward

827
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,600
is supported by data that they may have in their department?

828
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,040
And it's not just me asking those questions,

829
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,160
but our entire executive team, our entire director level

830
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,960
asking those same questions.

831
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,680
And what we're demonstrating, at least for me,

832
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,320
is the ability to answer those questions

833
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,560
and answer them very quickly from our subject matter

834
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:56,680
expertise, right?

835
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,400
So if someone were to ask, you know,

836
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,120
I don't understand this, you know,

837
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,920
Matt, you use that word P and L a lot, what does that mean?

838
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,240
You know, and so I'm able to explain it,

839
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:09,760
or I'll talk about allocation,

840
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,440
or I'll talk about an indirect cost rate

841
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,440
or cost recovery rate, you know, that kind of thing.

842
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,640
And people will stop and say, hey, I need to understand it.

843
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,800
And I will stop right there and answer that question

844
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,600
as if this is what we're talking about now, you know,

845
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,040
everything else can wait, let's talk about this.

846
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,640
And that's provided, you know, information has provided

847
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,520
a lot of opportunity for people to grow.

848
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,240
And I think that when you're not told,

849
00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:35,400
I need this data, you're not doing it right,

850
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,560
this doesn't seem to jive with what we need

851
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,120
from a compliance standpoint.

852
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,120
That's obviously gonna put up barriers,

853
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,520
but if you're asking questions,

854
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,080
you're able to get to there together

855
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,080
and you're able to share your insight,

856
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,760
why you're asking that question,

857
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,200
where you can connect the dots,

858
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,760
things you may have missed, things that you can share.

859
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,280
And I think that's important in breaking down those silos.

860
00:40:58,280 --> 00:40:59,120
Yeah.

861
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,040
Another way of disarming the negative reaction

862
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,240
of that's my data is I've heard from someone else recently

863
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:07,880
just say things like, you know,

864
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,080
I could be totally off on this, but it seems to me.

865
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,640
And that's a way of just letting them know,

866
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,040
like you're trying to enter into that space with them.

867
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,680
You said it earlier, it's partnerships,

868
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,560
like it's partnering together with people.

869
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,840
It's not that you're right, they're right,

870
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,680
or heaven forbid anybody's wrong in the conversation.

871
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:31,560
It's more just about how can we work together?

872
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,840
And I love these practical tips

873
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,280
of how you can break down the walls and the barriers

874
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,280
so that people can not be so concerned about misuse,

875
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:43,920
mishandling of data.

876
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,480
And it requires taking some risks to build that trust.

877
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,840
You have to give trust just as much

878
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,480
before you can even expect trust in return.

879
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,480
So yeah, great comments.

880
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:56,520
That's exactly it.

881
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,680
And I think just to add onto that too,

882
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,200
I think one of the areas that makes it continue to move

883
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,640
is the feedback that we get on it, right?

884
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,760
So if we're just learning and saying,

885
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,280
oh, that's great, thanks for sharing that.

886
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,600
You know, and we're not implementing it

887
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,080
or at least putting it into a manner

888
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,120
where it can be looked at at a higher level

889
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,640
or shared across, it just kind of goes nowhere.

890
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,440
And I think that we want to,

891
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,760
at least I want to make sure

892
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,960
that I'm a conduit for information.

893
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,120
If I'm sitting in a meeting,

894
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,520
I might have a vantage point that's not held

895
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,200
by those folks that are in the meeting

896
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,480
and same for them.

897
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,320
And so we're all coming together to collaborate

898
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,600
and that feedback piece is very important.

899
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,000
So, you know, as I think about it,

900
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,240
it's a lot less of me being a subject matter expert

901
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:45,160
in the certain areas that I'm in finance and accounting.

902
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:46,760
Of course, I can answer these questions

903
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:47,840
and we can get into the details,

904
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,600
but a lot of time I have team members

905
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,680
that are very, very, very knowledgeable on those things.

906
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,280
My goal is to provide financial leadership

907
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,920
to answer the questions around where were we,

908
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,360
where are we going and what's gonna help us get there

909
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,080
and to be able to articulate that

910
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:03,640
in a way that makes sense for the person

911
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,360
who's asking that kind of question.

912
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,800
And so that changes from when I may be talking to,

913
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,840
you know, the mayor's office or the, you know,

914
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,840
the federal government or funders

915
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,120
to our team members that are, you know, new to the agency

916
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,360
and just signing on as a program associate

917
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,760
and they're really excited about what they're doing

918
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:22,680
and they just need to understand

919
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,000
some of the financial portions of it.

920
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,160
So that's what drives me in the work

921
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,200
is being able to take what I've learned

922
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,400
and apply it from a leadership perspective

923
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,920
and really show a different side of finance.

924
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,080
I think that has been changing the narrative

925
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,800
around finance and accounting from kind of pushovers

926
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,160
and, you know, using all the data and Excel sheets

927
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,120
and more of a leadership piece

928
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:49,640
and we're at the forefront of being able

929
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,200
to help make decisions around where we move next.

930
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,560
Matt, one thing I was hearing is you guys went back

931
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,800
and forth, there was like this thing that came to mind

932
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,840
was like a culture of humble questions

933
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,280
or humble curiosity of like leadership

934
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,520
who's like executive leaders are coming

935
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:04,600
and having these conversations

936
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,720
and being willing to admit I don't understand

937
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:08,600
or I'm curious to understand more

938
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,640
and exploring with humble curiosity,

939
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,600
humble questions and what that does

940
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,480
to just like create buy-in and engagement from everybody.

941
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,960
Matt, personally, what landed you in the nonprofit world

942
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,200
and why does this work matter to you?

943
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,520
What about it landed your career

944
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,920
and has kept it in this domain?

945
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,680
Yeah, I think for me, there's a lot around,

946
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,360
like I mentioned before, I feel like finance

947
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,600
is a fuel to impact and I firmly believe that.

948
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,880
And I think that as I have gone through my career,

949
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,480
being able to help other people

950
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,840
and where their needs are has been a focus of mine.

951
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,800
And so I've been in a variety

952
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,400
of different nonprofit contexts that I've been able

953
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,960
to do that and I think what drives me with it

954
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,880
is seeing that, especially from the operational sense,

955
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,400
is being able to see that the work that we would do

956
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,680
that's sometimes behind the scenes,

957
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,920
that's in the back office or primarily focused on reporting

958
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,320
like you've been talking about,

959
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,200
really does make a difference.

960
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:15,000
And so when I partner with our chief program officers

961
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,000
or our CEO and they're telling me the stories

962
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,880
of how people have been changed by the work that we're doing,

963
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,760
I know that a lot of the, that I've had an input into that.

964
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,560
And so, and the cool thing for me is being able

965
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,200
to share that with my teams, right?

966
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,880
There's still a very, with me being the most visible

967
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,120
finance leader in our agency,

968
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:35,320
we have accountants who are just like,

969
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,200
I just focus on this day to day to day.

970
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,520
I'm in Excel day to day, you know?

971
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,160
And so when we have those team meetings to say, all right,

972
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,240
hey, let me tell you a story about

973
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:44,880
how the Community Foundation of Sonoma County

974
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,480
just awarded us half a mil

975
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,280
to do this capacity building initiative.

976
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,960
This is because you were able to do this on time

977
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,480
and we were able to get this kind of report in

978
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,240
and you helped with closing the books at this period

979
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:56,800
that supported that information

980
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,640
that went on that grant application.

981
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,840
I think that changes things rather than just saying,

982
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,280
I'm just inputting these numbers,

983
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,560
I know my debits and credits to, wow,

984
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,360
like this is actually making a difference.

985
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,040
And so for me, and I kind of digress,

986
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,320
but for me learning how to sharpen that skill

987
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,240
to be able to support from a very operational

988
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:20,840
and infrastructural standpoint has been,

989
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,280
it's been a joy for me to do that

990
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,600
and to give back in that way.

991
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,800
And as I started my career, I was very much people centered.

992
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,400
I was in ministry for six or seven years

993
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,600
before I kind of entered into the nonprofit space

994
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,480
in this kind of environment.

995
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:42,320
And so I never really lost that wanting or that desire

996
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,200
to serve people in a really,

997
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,840
to serve people in a really felt way

998
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,360
in the things that they deal with on a day-to-day basis.

999
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,840
And so I think I do it from a different vantage point now,

1000
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,000
but making sense of it from an operational capacity

1001
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,760
is something I strive to do for myself

1002
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,600
and for the teams that I get to lead.

1003
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:02,440
Yeah.

1004
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,760
So being a finance guy, I just have to ask you,

1005
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,440
why was the Baker so good with their finances?

1006
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,200
Geez, I don't know.

1007
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,480
Holy smokes, that's a stump question.

1008
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,440
It's because they had so much practice with the dough.

1009
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,400
Okay, yeah, all right, all right, perfect.

1010
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:22,800
Perfect.

1011
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,200
I'll lead off with that when I have my next team meeting.

1012
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,360
That would be great.

1013
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:32,120
That would be great.

1014
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:33,520
Thank you, Troy, for that.

1015
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:34,360
Good one.

1016
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,320
Anytime.

1017
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,880
Yeah, this has been a great,

1018
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:38,200
I've really enjoyed this conversation.

1019
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,360
Matt, Troy, thank you, gentlemen.

1020
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,120
Matt, for anybody who wants to find out more about you,

1021
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:43,960
connect with you online,

1022
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,640
or find out about your organization,

1023
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,920
where should they go to find you guys?

1024
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,960
Yeah, so we're at sonomacan.org

1025
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,520
if you wanna learn more around what we do in Sonoma County.

1026
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,480
Obviously, I only touched on a few things today,

1027
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,200
but there's a lot of resources that we have.

1028
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,200
If you're interested in connecting with me directly,

1029
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,440
you can buy me on LinkedIn,

1030
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,640
and would appreciate that if, again,

1031
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,280
any curiosity is my thing.

1032
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,880
So if there's something cool that you wanna share,

1033
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,800
that'd be awesome, and I'd love to connect that way.

1034
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:13,640
Excellent, excellent.

1035
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:14,960
Well, thanks so much, Matt.

1036
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,200
Always a pleasure, Troy.

1037
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:17,240
And for listeners out there,

1038
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:18,480
thanks for joining us on this episode

1039
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:19,680
of Making It a Matter.

1040
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:26,680
Have a great one, everybody.