Welcome to Making Data Matter.
We have conversations about data,
leadership at mission-driven organizations,
practical insights into nonprofit mission,
strategy data, and anything else we find interesting.
I'm your host, Sawyer Nyquist.
I'm your co-host, Troy Dueck.
Today, I'm excited to welcome to the show Matt Benford.
Matt, welcome to the show.
Welcome.
Thank you, guys. Thank you.
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
For folks just meeting you,
Matt, give us a little background about who you are and what you do.
Yeah. My name is Matt.
I am the Chief Financial Officer of Sonoma Can or Sonoma Community Action Network.
I spend a lot of time in that role of accounting and finance.
Accounting, looking back and finance, looking forward,
and how to make, I would say,
data-informed decisions with how we repurpose and allocate dollars.
So that's a lot of my world.
A lot of my time,
the group that I work with is more community-centric and getting
resources into the hands of people who need it,
so we can provide some equitable transformation in the places that we serve.
So that's a little bit about my world.
Yeah. I love it.
So let's start. I want to do a little bit more.
Tell me about what the community action partnership is like,
or more specifically about the type of work that you do in Sonoma County.
Yeah. So Sonoma County is a little bit,
you're positioning it on a map.
It's a little bit north of San Francisco,
about an hour and a half north of San Francisco.
And what the community action agencies are really designed to do
is to rally around those who need support in these different clusters.
And a lot of the time, it's based on county,
but there are some private groups that support families
with the resources that they need to move forward in life.
A lot of the groups that we work with
have some kind of challenge or hurdle
that they need a hand in helping to address.
And so as a whole, the community action agencies,
community action networks, partnerships were established back in the 50s
throughout with the use of federal funds
and continue to this day be funded by the government
through community services block grants that you may have heard about.
So anyways, for our group,
we focus on the footprint of Sonoma County.
And our goal is to really help ensure
that families are, like I said,
moving along a path of equitable transformation.
And what that simply means is we embrace a whole family approach, right?
Not adjusting just one specific need,
but having the ability or capacity to help with a variety of needs
that are all interlinked in some way for families
that are interlinked in a way so that families can move forward
with the resources they need.
So for instance, early childhood education is a really big one
for students and kids and our families that otherwise
wouldn't have access to some of the more appropriate
or supplemental educational resources.
Or we also talk about in that model asset allocation.
How do we provide housing or housing supports, financial stability
to families that are struggling, moving place to place,
or some even struggling with housing insecurity that way?
So asset building, ECE, or early childhood education,
health and wellness has become a big one over the last few years,
both behaviorally, mentally, and then physical health.
So we provide those connections and supports
for the families that need them.
And then social capital, simply how we define being able to connect
others to a network of resources.
So if you've experienced or have the benefit from what we've provided
or what a community action has provided or any other network
has provided, that we can connect you with continuing resources
that would make sure that you are moving along
the path of transformation.
So that's kind of the programmatic side.
That's how we support all of this.
But as you would realize, doing all this,
it costs money for everything to be put online.
And so that's my role in making sure that all those resources
are allocated appropriately.
We have a ton of federal funding that we make sure to monitor
so that we don't misallocate and that we can continue
to create those trajectories of financial resource to our families.
So yeah, I know that's a mouthful.
And there's a lot there, but that's kind of what we do.
Yeah.
How do the needs or environmental or economic factors
of Sonoma County differ from a city like San Francisco
or other urban environments?
What are some specific things around Sonoma County
that are maybe unique challenges or unique opportunities
that you guys have?
Yeah, in my experience, Sawyer, before coming to be the CFO here,
I was with the United Way, their Bay Area chapter in San Francisco.
And really big push in SF and the surrounding areas,
Oakland, was housing.
And so we spent a lot of funds, a lot of time
focusing on housing initiatives.
As I've arrived north of San Francisco to Sonoma County,
the difference isn't as pronounced, which
is to say housing is a huge piece of what we do in housing
and addressing housing insecurity.
And while I would say there's more resources in San Francisco,
just by nature of it being a major city,
the felt need on the outskirts of major metropolitan areas
is still pronounced and even to some extent more dire
than in these major hubs.
Because I think in the major hubs, you can deploy resources faster.
There's more resources to deploy.
And the data that governs how we approach that work
is very consolidated to those hubs.
Whereas when you get into the outskirts,
a lot of work has to be done to pull together resources and network
and find funding opportunities so that we can still
address the same type of needs.
And I think what we found, too, is that as people exit those mass centers,
LA, San Francisco, Oakland, and look for some kind of relief
in the surrounding areas, the prices are still being driven higher.
And the need is becoming much more pronounced.
And so I'd say in short, housing initiatives
are really important for us.
And because of that, we're not just, I mean,
I think that's a symptom of a bigger issue where
we're talking about financial stability
and how do we create pathways for gainful employment?
How do we create pathways for families to thrive,
not just in their housing situation, which
feeds into a bunch of different challenges
when you're experiencing insecurity that way,
but how do we help to address the different problems that come along,
including housing and housing insecurity?
So yeah, I think I've seen that be really pronounced over the last,
I'd say, five or seven years that I've been kind of monitoring that space,
or been in that space, I should say.
This is awesome stuff to hear about the work that you can do right there
in your community.
And I'm thinking about how private nonprofit organizations are often
using some kind of state or federal funding.
And what often comes with that, some might call it shackles,
but let's not suggest negative viewpoints here.
But it does come with, as you are using those funds,
you have to then report back how you're using those funds.
And there's that compliance aspect of reporting.
And so I'm just curious and wanted to explore with you,
how do you use data to make informed decisions
and aren't just caught up in the, well, we
need to report on this because it's part of our compliance requirements.
Like, yes, I want to do that and be held accountable well for these funds,
but I want to be able to take that reporting and mature on it
so that I can actually make data-informed decisions
for our organization.
So explore that with me.
What's that look like for you and your role,
and how have you been able to impact that to mature beyond simply
checking the box of compliance?
100%.
Great question, Troy.
And I think what's important for me in that area is twofold.
As a leader in the organization, obviously, the compliance piece,
there's a ton of that.
There's a ton of monitoring.
There's a ton of auditing.
And so from a data perspective, making sure that we've set our systems up
so that we can report out very quickly is important for me.
The longer that we lag or our inability to produce reports
for compliance purposes, the longer that takes,
the more flags that start to exist with the state
and with the federal government.
But outside of that, what I'm excited for with what we're doing
is that we're not only taking that data and putting it
into our single audit or some of the monitorings that we have,
but we're actually making it actionable.
So for instance, last year, we started
as a cohort of nonprofits in our county, where we realized
that the services that are being provided
by different kinds of nonprofits, whether they're
community actions like ourselves or health-based, behavior health-based
nonprofits or any other profit in between that's
kind of focusing on this whole family approach, mental health
wellness, child education, everything I was talking about earlier.
We realized that there were families that were having to get resources
at different spots through different agencies
and having to fill out the same kind of information each time.
And for some, that's at best is kind of a pain in the neck to do each time.
And for others, it surfaces trauma to really talk about how you're
experiencing poverty or to be able to talk through these experiences
that is part of the intake program.
And it's a barrier to entry, right?
And it's a barrier to entry.
Sometimes they aren't going to do it at multiple places.
I've done it once, and that's all I can handle.
And so they can't get the help that they need.
Exactly.
And so that's exactly it.
And so what we ended up saying was, how can we take funds
and apply for funding, grant funding, to create a resource connection
network whereby we would create, you all probably heard this before,
but UDIP, Universal Data Intake Programs.
How do we create that where, and essentially as we talk about it,
there's no wrong door to approaching the services that you would need
from a particular nonprofit.
And so how do we share that data and create that kind of system
amongst our partners so that when a person, if Matt comes in and says,
I need these kinds of services, that when I fill that form out,
that's information that exists in a system that if I were to go somewhere
else to get services, that that can be pulled down and applied.
So we are in year two of the implementation of that with a small group
of nonprofits, and I'm really excited for it.
A lot of what I've seen in the past is, like I said, disparate intake systems.
Over here, over there, and it creates barriers, like you said.
It exposes traumatic experiences.
It's hard to navigate.
And it's sometimes very confusing and very time consuming.
So all those checkboxes are just the opposite of what we're trying to do
to create efficiency.
So we want to change that.
And I think the transformation around building those systems has been great.
And having the ability to be supportive of not only our community members,
but to work with other nonprofits to do that has been pretty awesome.
One follow up question on that is, does your office,
being the finance focused office, are you responsible
for most of the data work directly?
Or are you partnering with a data team within your organization
to produce these kinds of reports and think through these kinds
of application efficiencies?
I'm just trying to get a better lay of the land right in your organization.
We're partnering for sure.
There's enough every coming out of my office that we have to manage.
But we have a compliance team that kind of has put that together
and a data team that has worked on a lot of those items.
But obviously, there's that connection that we need to have.
And so that's kind of our setup now.
I'm very, very tight knit with our COO and his crew
that's running that entire thing.
You mentioned one thing in there when you talked about kind of the more
government funds is you talked about having really efficient reporting
or being able to do it fast, like quickly.
What does that look like to what have you learned?
Like, what is it like when it's slow?
How have you made that effective and efficient reporting
from that standpoint?
Yeah, without getting into too much detail,
one of the things that I realized over the course of my career
is that finance fuels impact.
And so the best way for us to ensure that we're feeling that impact
is to create the systems that facilitate it.
So by and large for us, at least for my office,
is our accounting systems.
And because we share data and financial data,
programmatic data across the agency, our finance system
has to support a lot of that, both from a quantitative standpoint
and even in some cases qualitative.
And so for us, it was rebuilding the way
that we code items into our financial system.
By and large, it was a, for me, Sawyer and Troy,
I like to think about finance in a decentralized manner.
Like, it's how do we make sure that while my office is
the champion of the accounting and finance portions
that we've democratized it in a way so that directors
and senior managers and the rest can access and make
those decisions for themselves.
And so we've created a coding system that
helps move that process faster.
We deal with several hundred thousand transactions a month.
And there's no way that anyone in my office
is going to be able to parse that out to figure out,
Sawyer, your expense requests from three months ago
just got approved and they got coded correctly.
That's something that should be in the hands of your manager
and the directors and budget leaders
who are managing the grant.
And so if we are able to support you in coding that,
that makes it a lot faster than us trying to comb through data
to make sure that we've gotten it all right.
And so finance has now taken this very centralized approach
and has made it decentralized where now we
are business partners with a lot of the programmatic areas
around our agency.
And that makes it a lot faster for us to report.
Because we can say, hey, we're getting our audit,
we're getting our desk monitoring is coming in,
or whatever kind of review is happening.
These are the transactions that are in question
tell me about them.
And we can get those answers very quickly
and I can speak with confidence to the auditors who
come knocking on my door before it even
gets to our programmatic folks, which allows
them to be more efficient.
So as long as we are able to be partners with them,
we can answer these questions.
And Sawyer, the other piece of the question
was, what does it look like when it's slow?
When it's slow, we're not pulling those reports down.
We're not being able to understand
these transactions or miscoding or reclasses
and things like that.
But I'd say primarily with the coding structure that we have,
it's produced more efficiencies and more insight
than the agency has had in the prior time
on how to make decisions for that specific program.
My team and the rest of the C-suite leaders
look at it at a broad level, strategically
to say how do we then move the agency forward
towards whatever initiative that would be
next on the horizon for us.
Now, Matt, I bet that took trust to get to that point.
I'm thinking most departments think of their data
as they're the owners of their data.
And building that trust to let other people actually
start seeing that data, make some level of decision
on that data, can be a bit scary when
you get more decentralized and democratizing the data
around the organization.
How did you get there?
Or were you there when you came in
and you got to build on something?
Tell us that side of the story.
By no means.
Yeah, I think for us coming, for me,
I've been there just a little over a year.
And so coming into the role, it's
been a process to ensure trust, right,
that what we're looking to do makes sense.
And I say that the move from centralized to decentralized
finance, the agency was firmly based in a centralized manner.
Hey, finance will take care of you.
And that put a lot of capacity in our teams.
And it was a grind for us.
And so when I came in and saw this
with the partnership of our CEO, we made that.
We're making that switch.
And systematically, we've done it.
The mental piece is always like the behavioral piece,
the practical piece, is something we're always
driven home.
No, no, no, no.
You help me make these decisions.
This is your budget.
How can we support you in making those decisions around what
you'll do next or what questions do you have on it?
A lot of time, Troy, we have folks
who are very experienced in budget management
based on their experience and others that are new to role,
new to management, new to this kind of world.
So a lot of time, we're partnering that way.
And I think over the past year, it's
created a lot of traction that we can look at finance
and say, hey, what's Matt and the team up to?
Where can I get a slot on Matt's calendar, which is very small?
But where can I be available to just ask a question?
We're lucky today.
That's what I heard.
We got an hour on Matt's time.
I made time for this one.
This is good.
But being supportive has given a lot of confidence
to those team members.
And then I think in turn, because we've
seen how fast we can create reports or answer compliance
questions and then make decisions,
it does a little bit to move the trust needle
to the next level.
So yeah, I think it's always constant.
It's a constant thing.
I don't think we've ever arrived,
but it's a movement for sure.
And one side of the coin that we've been talking about
is the efficiency and the trust bleeding that comes from that.
But efficiency is about cost saving.
And it makes us using our dollars better.
But then the other side of that was,
I think you started talking about it.
It's like, how do you make decisions
within the strategic and the impact?
You said finance drives impact.
So that if we're doing efficient processes and saving money
or be more effective, then what is the impact
or the strategic and decision making part
that comes out of that or out of data that you see?
I think maybe I'll talk about it like this.
The stakes, if we get it wrong, is misallocation of resource.
That we're not addressing a need that's felt
or we're addressing the wrong problem.
And I think if we approach it from a standpoint
of mitigating risk by allocating resources appropriately,
that kind of bubbles up to show us where we continue
to need to focus on the allocation of resources.
So for example, I was talking earlier
about how housing is super important for us.
What that means is that we need more dollars
to go towards that initiative.
So that doesn't just mean like the dollars
that we have to grant out or dollars that we have
to conduct surveys or pass through funds
from the federal or state governments.
It also means the capacity at which our team needs
to operate to support those kinds of efforts.
And many times, if we don't understand the full costs,
we end up revving past our capacity threshold.
We can't afford to do it because we have two little folks,
smaller teams that can't afford to manage entire caseloads.
That we're not thinking about our revenue models
appropriately on how we will provide fee for service.
And so I think when we're talking
about how to allocate resources,
we're considering what's the need,
what have we seen the need be in the past?
What's our vision for addressing this need in the community
and where are we gonna find the funding?
We can't say yes to everything.
And so we have to prioritize how we do it.
And I think that's the strategic way
that we think about moving the agency forward.
We can't do everything at once.
So what do we focus on?
And I think as we look at our data and how,
again, going back to those universal intake forms,
where are we seeing the most need?
Housing is popping up for us.
Mental health and wellness is popping up for us
as a big piece for how we are seeing the need.
And then we're asking, well, where can we find funding
and how do we step through this
to support those people that are showing that felt need?
And a lot of the time, because we're a nonprofit,
resources are scarce.
That's kind of the risk that for at least for our agency,
like we're largely government funded.
And so that funding doesn't change year to year to year.
And so we have to figure out good ways to make sure
that we're keeping that administrative costs lower
or understanding the capacity for our administrative team
and our infrastructure team really as a whole
to deliver on some of those programs
that would continue to benefit the community.
So it's a delicate balance for sure.
Is there a sort of cadence
where you're evaluating strategic initiatives?
And like, as you think about asset allocations
is that quarterly, is that monthly, is that daily?
I don't know.
Like, how do you think about like in terms of assessing
and iterating over, are we putting dollars
in the right places?
Yeah, I think a lot of the time,
we're in a really cool spot, I would say,
because our executive team is newer to the organization.
So that evaluation is happening more frequently
than it happened in the past, I would say.
I don't know that there's any particular cadence
that we would sit down and say, all right,
let's look at all this data and say what's coming next.
But there's definitely a pulse that we're catching.
And I think that as we understand periods of performance
for certain grants and renewals for how they come through,
we're able to say, okay, what can we do more with this?
Or as we talk with other community partners,
we're even understanding from kind of anecdotally,
hey, what's happening here?
Or, well, we're seeing this, we're seeing that.
And now we're able to leverage that to apply for funding.
Funders are just really, really focused on joint efforts
for nonprofits to support initiatives in the community.
So we're partnering with others on initiatives and grants
and writing these things together
for either pass through or joint funding
that will help support the need.
And so a lot of it is understanding, all right,
what are we seeing?
What are other organizations seeing?
What's the data saying to us,
at least from what we have coming into our system?
And again, we're still learning
how to make sense of all of it,
but all those things together
kind of give us our move forward to say that,
hey, maybe now is not the time to focus on,
let me put it like this,
our Community Action Partnership is kind of focused on
that whole family approach.
There are other Community Action Partnerships
that are mainly focused on maybe out east
that are focused on weatherization
and being able to clean energy
and being able to fund those kinds of efforts for businesses
and our communities that would need that kind of support
whether they're in a disaster prone area, right?
For us it's the fires, but for others it could be
hurricane season or tornado season, that kind of thing.
And so they have a different type of focus.
And so that says to us,
hey, we're not gonna focus on that.
We're gonna focus on what's pressing
for our community at the time.
And then following up on that,
what does success look like?
If you're gonna use data and measure success,
I think we're kind of maybe talking about it,
but I wanna really zoom in on this
and focus on in your words,
how would you define success for whatever
that particular season is of the work that you're doing?
Yeah, I think there's a number of ways
I think we define it.
For instance, for us, it's more around families served
and with what service, right?
So if we're thinking through this kind of
universally intake system,
what was our goal for the families that we wanted to serve
and how many did we serve?
I think a particular note is when we start to talk
about healthcare or I should say behavioral health
and mental health services,
there's a lot of money that comes to the state for that.
A lot of money that comes to federal funding for that.
And so the barometer is kind of given to us.
This is what you should be looking for,
and this is what you need to kind of go by.
And like we were talking about earlier,
not just from a compliance,
mainly from a compliance standpoint,
but for us, we're using it to determine
how we then approach escalating those kinds of services.
So how many contacts are we making a month?
How many calls are we making a month?
At what increment are we making those calls?
For our case managers,
what kind of resources are they being provided
on a regular basis to support
with the different cases that they have?
We've recently started blood pressure screenings
as part of the intake so that we can have that data available
for our health and wellness teams.
And so success is really ticking those boxes
because what it means is that we're doing everything
that we can to connect our families with resources, right?
If we're not ticking those boxes,
that means we're missing a piece of information
that could be beneficial for that person or that family
to get resources that could be unlocked
if we would have had it.
So I think we're defining success by touch points.
I think we're defining it by services provided.
I think we're defining it by,
in our early childhood education programs,
kids served, number of kids served.
Even in that world, we're thinking about meals
and how many meals are served on a daily basis.
And that's all information that goes back
to the government, obviously, but we're able to say,
all right, if we're serving these amount of kids
with these kinds of meals,
how do we leverage that into more high quality meals
or supplement that for more nutritious meals?
The same thing for, I would say that's for our elementary
and for our preschool.
And I'm really excited for that
in the sense that we've pivoted that
to take federal funding and show the need
so that we can supplement state funding for that program.
So that allows for our classrooms to be open longer
so that we can support families
that where parents aren't able to get off work
or work in the different hours
that their kids would have childcare
in an educational context.
And what does that mean?
That means that not only are we sick in this box,
or early childhood education,
we're ticking this other box on workforce pathways
as far as our whole family approach is concerned,
because now parents and guardians are able to spend more time
making more money so that they can, again,
deploy those resources for themselves
towards equitable transformation in the community.
So we're doing a lot that we,
I'd say that address that issue.
And for us, it's different data points
and different metrics that kind of exist
across the different programs, specifically.
But I think from my vantage point,
we're looking at it on how does a family
move through the model
and what things need to be considered as they do that.
And so family serve is always going to be
something important to me as I'm looking at it.
But specifically, as you kind of drill in,
you'll see that our health and wellness is focused on,
case manager, or health and wellness case managers
are focused on calls made, contact, touch points,
that kind of thing.
Our early childhood education folks
are focused on meals served, kids served, that kind of thing.
So it's very nuanced and very specific,
but it all works together.
That's awesome.
You just described a two-way street,
because earlier in the conversation,
you talked about decentralizing the finance data
to get it into the hands of those
that are managing their budgets and doing the operations
and making some strategic calls around their expenses
and things like that.
But then you also just now talked about how
you got to collect data from all those operational units
on measuring, well, how many people got served?
How many people are in this education program
or this health program or whatever it is?
And that's not something you're directly interested in,
but it is so indirectly related to where you allocate dollars,
you need to know where that is.
So how do you translate that?
Okay, these KPIs of members served
and education programs up and running
and all those other KPIs that are very operational,
how do you translate that into those dollars
in your reporting?
I'm curious what that looks like for you.
Yeah, so I think there's the external
and the internal component of that.
And I think before you get to any of it,
again, that partnership where it's like,
hey, how do we in finance,
how do we kind of insert ourselves into these conversations?
I think that that's the way that we're able to support.
But what I found is that as we're inserting ourselves
into this conversation, not only are we giving information
on like budget numbers and spend and that kind of thing,
but we're also getting information,
because we'll come back and have to sign off.
And I'm sure you both have seen before,
like we produce these reports that go up to the state
or to the feds, they're looking both
the fiscal side and the programmatic side
on the same report.
So we're having to collaborate
to put this information together.
And I think that as we do that, we're able to see like,
oh, okay, so there was X amount of kids served
and that translates to this amount of spend in the quarter
or the month of the period.
So that would mean this, you know,
so we're actually taking that to the next step,
not just for, again, not just for the compliance purpose,
but we're rolling that up.
So when I get the data, we're able to talk
with our finance committee around what does this report
tell us about what we're doing, right?
Because we're trying to move our group out of,
well, these are X dollars and we have this budget
and we perform this way.
And this is, you know, we're trying to move away from that
to say, this is how we perform it.
This is why it happened, you know,
and this is what's being able,
this is what we're excited about.
And if, you know, if there's a discrepancy between that data
that we're producing in these reports,
we're able to explain it for whatever reason,
whether it's a new initiative coming online
that we're running a little hot on,
or, you know, overpaced on, that we can say,
hey, this is startup or it's implementation for this
and this is what we're projecting out.
So I think that's the financial piece of it
that is firmly within my office,
but also supported by the data that our,
you know, our chief program officer is able to provide
to us around housing, workforce pathways,
early childhood education, health and wellness,
you know, social capital, that kind of thing.
So I would say, you know, how do we do that
and what does that mean for our reporting
internally and externally?
It means that it's more comprehensive.
It's more, it's more integrated, it's thought out,
it's produced in a manner that says,
we are focused on our allocations of resources
and here's how we did it, right?
Instead of just kind of saying it and looking at numbers,
you can't really parse out allocations that way.
You know, I could blow it out for you,
I could show you each grant we have and you know, whatever,
but you know, a lot of times we don't have time for that,
you know, in these short meetings that we have
with our boards and with our committees.
So how do we make it simple?
How do we make it digestible?
How does it become actionable?
How do you feel informed?
How do you then, as a board member,
talk about it in the communities that you have influence in?
So I think helping to roll all those items up
has been a real big piece of the work that we do
at the executive level and really just the nature
of community action partnerships across the nation.
It's just, it's really tied together, I'd say.
Matt, you're just, you're articulating a,
at least a vision or an ethos about like how data
and how you think about strategy and action
at your organization.
I'm just curious, like based on the different organizations
you've worked at and all the different organizations
you interact with, how have you noticed
how different organizations approach data differently
or maybe their appetite, their interest,
their level of investment?
Yeah, how they approach data differently
from what you've seen.
So I think you have a very clear vision
of what this would look like
and the cultures developed with you.
What does it look like at different organizations
you've been at or you interact with?
Yeah, it's way different.
I think each one has a flavor,
and I think for my time at different organizations,
the focus on data governance or being able to create
some infrastructure around how we handle data is varied.
And I think that it's by and large due to funding
in that area, being able to find skilled professionals
that can build that type of infrastructure
that helps us to support it.
And other times, we've had the resources
and it's just been a pain to implement it correctly,
or maybe not correctly, but in a way
that provides the most relevant data.
And out of all the agencies I've been a part of,
the ones that have struggled with data
and struggled with making data-informed decisions
have been agencies that have siloed the work.
Well, that's just the data thing, right?
Just have our data folks put it all together.
And it's not just data, but it's siloed approach to programs,
how to approach to finance and ops and data
and everything else.
And when you have those siloed approaches,
no one's talking to each other about what needs to be produced.
And all of a sudden, when it's time to,
the auditors are knocking in annually
or the reviews happen, hour scramble,
trying to figure out how do we pull and where is this
and what's that and so on and so on.
And I think that those have been challenging organizations
to be a part of because not only does a siloed work
happen functionally, but the vision for shared services,
shared data, shared finance, shared infrastructure,
is not articulated from leadership.
And so for me, I'm very focused on breaking down those silos
so that information is shared in a way.
Obviously within compliance and considering the privacy pieces,
especially as we talk about mental health
or health services even, but internally to say,
we need to democratize this in a way that helps people
in our organization move quicker
through the work that they do, more efficient,
and in a way that pulls it all together
so that we can present a unified front to funders
when we're seeking more resources to allocate
to those that we're serving.
Yeah, like I just think about if I am somebody
and I get included in those data
and I have insights into what's going on
and I can kind of see both from finance
and other operational data points,
like I get more bought in and I can make better decisions
and I can collaborate better with my peers
across different business units.
And I guess that would probably spark a lot more efficiency
and also strategic impact
when you have organizations operating.
But I get scared, Sawyer,
because now you're looking at my data,
making decisions about my data when...
Troy, we're on the same team, though.
We're not.
But that's a common reaction to democratized data
is I don't want people looking at my data
and thinking that they know how to interpret it properly.
They're going to misinterpret it.
They're going to mishandle it.
And that's where that trust piece comes in.
I don't know, Matt, if you want to speak to this.
Well, I think...
But that is a visceral response that can come
where some people are all ready to share
and democratize the data and collaborate together.
And other people are like,
eh, you don't touch my stuff.
Like, that's my stuff. You leave that alone.
So how do you break those silos down?
Yeah, I think you're 100% right.
And I think that, you know, for me,
what I've learned in my career is being curious, right?
Like, it starts with a question, right?
You know, tell me about, you know,
tell me about this piece of data
or tell me about these families
or this metric that you all use.
What's that about?
And that, to me, that disarms a lot of the,
hey, this is mine, versus, okay, well, you know,
this is a leader asking a question of me
because, and I'll preface it by saying,
I have no clue what this is, you know?
So why don't you tell me about it?
And I don't put on any airs of, you know,
having to know everything about the organization.
I don't. And I think that's why, you know, in my role,
I have to be very curious and be able to ask good questions
to be able to support the agency.
And so when I'm able to do that across each program,
all of a sudden I've broken down some of those silos.
And then I can say, you know,
hey, that piece of data you just showed me
about family served,
that sounds similar to what our case managers are doing,
you know, in health and wellness, you know?
Is there a way to connect these two dots
so that the metric that you are trying to move forward
is supported by data that they may have in their department?
And it's not just me asking those questions,
but our entire executive team, our entire director level
asking those same questions.
And what we're demonstrating, at least for me,
is the ability to answer those questions
and answer them very quickly from our subject matter
expertise, right?
So if someone were to ask, you know,
I don't understand this, you know,
Matt, you use that word P and L a lot, what does that mean?
You know, and so I'm able to explain it,
or I'll talk about allocation,
or I'll talk about an indirect cost rate
or cost recovery rate, you know, that kind of thing.
And people will stop and say, hey, I need to understand it.
And I will stop right there and answer that question
as if this is what we're talking about now, you know,
everything else can wait, let's talk about this.
And that's provided, you know, information has provided
a lot of opportunity for people to grow.
And I think that when you're not told,
I need this data, you're not doing it right,
this doesn't seem to jive with what we need
from a compliance standpoint.
That's obviously gonna put up barriers,
but if you're asking questions,
you're able to get to there together
and you're able to share your insight,
why you're asking that question,
where you can connect the dots,
things you may have missed, things that you can share.
And I think that's important in breaking down those silos.
Yeah.
Another way of disarming the negative reaction
of that's my data is I've heard from someone else recently
just say things like, you know,
I could be totally off on this, but it seems to me.
And that's a way of just letting them know,
like you're trying to enter into that space with them.
You said it earlier, it's partnerships,
like it's partnering together with people.
It's not that you're right, they're right,
or heaven forbid anybody's wrong in the conversation.
It's more just about how can we work together?
And I love these practical tips
of how you can break down the walls and the barriers
so that people can not be so concerned about misuse,
mishandling of data.
And it requires taking some risks to build that trust.
You have to give trust just as much
before you can even expect trust in return.
So yeah, great comments.
That's exactly it.
And I think just to add onto that too,
I think one of the areas that makes it continue to move
is the feedback that we get on it, right?
So if we're just learning and saying,
oh, that's great, thanks for sharing that.
You know, and we're not implementing it
or at least putting it into a manner
where it can be looked at at a higher level
or shared across, it just kind of goes nowhere.
And I think that we want to,
at least I want to make sure
that I'm a conduit for information.
If I'm sitting in a meeting,
I might have a vantage point that's not held
by those folks that are in the meeting
and same for them.
And so we're all coming together to collaborate
and that feedback piece is very important.
So, you know, as I think about it,
it's a lot less of me being a subject matter expert
in the certain areas that I'm in finance and accounting.
Of course, I can answer these questions
and we can get into the details,
but a lot of time I have team members
that are very, very, very knowledgeable on those things.
My goal is to provide financial leadership
to answer the questions around where were we,
where are we going and what's gonna help us get there
and to be able to articulate that
in a way that makes sense for the person
who's asking that kind of question.
And so that changes from when I may be talking to,
you know, the mayor's office or the, you know,
the federal government or funders
to our team members that are, you know, new to the agency
and just signing on as a program associate
and they're really excited about what they're doing
and they just need to understand
some of the financial portions of it.
So that's what drives me in the work
is being able to take what I've learned
and apply it from a leadership perspective
and really show a different side of finance.
I think that has been changing the narrative
around finance and accounting from kind of pushovers
and, you know, using all the data and Excel sheets
and more of a leadership piece
and we're at the forefront of being able
to help make decisions around where we move next.
Matt, one thing I was hearing is you guys went back
and forth, there was like this thing that came to mind
was like a culture of humble questions
or humble curiosity of like leadership
who's like executive leaders are coming
and having these conversations
and being willing to admit I don't understand
or I'm curious to understand more
and exploring with humble curiosity,
humble questions and what that does
to just like create buy-in and engagement from everybody.
Matt, personally, what landed you in the nonprofit world
and why does this work matter to you?
What about it landed your career
and has kept it in this domain?
Yeah, I think for me, there's a lot around,
like I mentioned before, I feel like finance
is a fuel to impact and I firmly believe that.
And I think that as I have gone through my career,
being able to help other people
and where their needs are has been a focus of mine.
And so I've been in a variety
of different nonprofit contexts that I've been able
to do that and I think what drives me with it
is seeing that, especially from the operational sense,
is being able to see that the work that we would do
that's sometimes behind the scenes,
that's in the back office or primarily focused on reporting
like you've been talking about,
really does make a difference.
And so when I partner with our chief program officers
or our CEO and they're telling me the stories
of how people have been changed by the work that we're doing,
I know that a lot of the, that I've had an input into that.
And so, and the cool thing for me is being able
to share that with my teams, right?
There's still a very, with me being the most visible
finance leader in our agency,
we have accountants who are just like,
I just focus on this day to day to day.
I'm in Excel day to day, you know?
And so when we have those team meetings to say, all right,
hey, let me tell you a story about
how the Community Foundation of Sonoma County
just awarded us half a mil
to do this capacity building initiative.
This is because you were able to do this on time
and we were able to get this kind of report in
and you helped with closing the books at this period
that supported that information
that went on that grant application.
I think that changes things rather than just saying,
I'm just inputting these numbers,
I know my debits and credits to, wow,
like this is actually making a difference.
And so for me, and I kind of digress,
but for me learning how to sharpen that skill
to be able to support from a very operational
and infrastructural standpoint has been,
it's been a joy for me to do that
and to give back in that way.
And as I started my career, I was very much people centered.
I was in ministry for six or seven years
before I kind of entered into the nonprofit space
in this kind of environment.
And so I never really lost that wanting or that desire
to serve people in a really,
to serve people in a really felt way
in the things that they deal with on a day-to-day basis.
And so I think I do it from a different vantage point now,
but making sense of it from an operational capacity
is something I strive to do for myself
and for the teams that I get to lead.
Yeah.
So being a finance guy, I just have to ask you,
why was the Baker so good with their finances?
Geez, I don't know.
Holy smokes, that's a stump question.
It's because they had so much practice with the dough.
Okay, yeah, all right, all right, perfect.
Perfect.
I'll lead off with that when I have my next team meeting.
That would be great.
Thank you, Troy, for that.
Good one.
Anytime.
Yeah, this has been a great,
I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Matt, Troy, thank you, gentlemen.
Matt, for anybody who wants to find out more about you,
connect with you online,
or find out about your organization,
where should they go to find you guys?
Yeah, so we're at sonomacan.org
if you wanna learn more around what we do in Sonoma County.
Obviously, I only touched on a few things today,
but there's a lot of resources that we have.
If you're interested in connecting with me directly,
you can buy me on LinkedIn,
and would appreciate that if, again,
any curiosity is my thing.
So if there's something cool that you wanna share,
that'd be awesome, and I'd love to connect that way.
Excellent, excellent.
Well, thanks so much, Matt.
Always a pleasure, Troy.
And for listeners out there,
thanks for joining us on this episode
of Making It a Matter.
Have a great one, everybody.