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Welcome to Making Data Matter, where we have conversations about data and leadership at mission-driven organizations with practical insights into the intersection of nonprofit mission strategy, data, and whatever else we want to talk about.

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So I'm your host Sawyer Nyquist.

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And I'm your co-host Troy Dewek.

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And today we are joined by guest Jim Bennett. Jim, welcome to the show.

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Thank you.

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And for folks just meeting you, Jim, for the first time, share a little bit about who you are and what you do.

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Sure. Yeah, I am the Director of Business Operations and Technology at Camp Barrett Co. I've been working with data for a very long time, over 20 years at this point.

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And I get to use the skills that I have working in a camp ministry at this point. So it's a lot of fun. There's a lot of opportunity and a lot of challenges.

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Now those 20 years of data experience, that's not all in a camp setting. So give me a little more. And Jim, you and I know each other.

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But for everybody else, give us some context around like what does that 20 years of career in data look like? How's it all been at a camp in the woods?

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Yeah, yeah, that's great. Well, I actually got my start in data. I got a degree in computer science from Western Michigan University.

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And while I was there, I was actually working for the intramural department, and they needed they needed some help with organizing how how sports are run.

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And so I got my first experience working with data with FileMaker Pro on the Mac.

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So kind of an interesting way to get started with working with data. But then I quickly moved into working at the university full time as a database administrator and database developer.

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Had several different database administrator positions through the years as I graduated and then moved on to different roles. I worked for a startup.

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I worked for a couple of health insurance companies, worked for a mortgage company that's, you know, a rather large one now.

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And then partway through my time at Quicken Loans, I was working with a really excellent team where we got to explore how to make data work well.

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And so I got to work with the at the time it was the business intelligence team, and we got to be crazy and build new things.

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And it was it was a it was a whole new world of analysis services and and getting things to work with reporting services and things like that.

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So that was a lot of fun. We got to do a lot of things there.

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And then after Quicken Loans, I went into consulting and did a lot of what we would now call data analytics consulting.

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I was an architect and worked on lots of different platforms and implementing projects for all kinds of different companies and all kinds of different industries.

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So you get to see challenges and work through challenges that were just kind of across the board and all over the map as far as working with data and how to make it work better and understand it and get teams to adopt it well.

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And so that that was that was 10 years.

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And that's sorry. That's when we met.

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And it was actually a really fun time back then, because this was like from 2010 to 2020.

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So Microsoft primarily worked with Microsoft products and platforms.

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And it was an interesting time to be in consulting because we were starting from everything was on prem.

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And then the big push was let's move everything to the cloud.

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And then kind of at the end of that 2020, it was like, well, let's move everything to the cloud.

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And then at the end of that 2020, it was like, well, maybe maybe hybrid is probably a good balance there.

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And so I got to see that whole transition over the across 10 years in the consulting space.

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So that was that was a lot of fun and an interesting challenge to work through.

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And then, yeah. And then we were called to come to camp here and I've been at camp for four years.

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Camp Camp Barricale is in northern Michigan, still in the lower peninsula, but definitely in the middle of the woods.

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I would like to say that we are an hour from the closest Wal-Mart.

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But I get to implement all kinds of technology here at camp because we're kind of starting from a from not a lot to work with.

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And we're building as we go. So it's a it's a it's a fun challenge.

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Now, I love that just the diverse background in terms of like you worked with all sorts of organizations,

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all sorts of companies and sizes, small, medium, large.

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And and then you find yourself at a relatively smaller nonprofit organization, a camp in the woods.

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So maybe first off, I want to compare and address a little bit.

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Maybe first off, what kind of data does camp have?

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Like, what is it? What data does a camp need?

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What kind of things have you tried to explore there since you got there four years ago?

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Was there any data that was collected or managed before?

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Or you start would you start from scratch? Tell me about that, Jordan.

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That's a that's a great question. Yeah.

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So camps actually do have quite a bit of data.

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Well, I say quite a bit of data, quite a bit of data for camping.

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Coming from building enterprise analytic platforms, there's very little data.

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But it's but the data that we do have is really critical to how camping actually runs.

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So it's everything from we have a financial system that's that's on prem.

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We have a registration system that people can register for our events online.

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And that's got data associated with it.

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In the summertime, we have we have our parents fill out health profiles through a vendor of ours.

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And that's all data that we use to manage summer camp really well.

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And then just in the past few years, we've implemented a we camp runs a lot on volunteers.

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And so implementing a staffing or volunteer management system.

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And there's all kinds of data associated with that to be able to have people come

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and us to be able to organize all the information about them.

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So before we hopped on the call, you mentioned data projects was something you're

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really interested in right now as you're, I'm assuming, bringing some of that expertise,

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the frameworks and architectures you're familiar with from out there in the big data space, I say.

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And now you're working with smaller data sets, but they're just as varied,

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they're just as you're covering multiple domains.

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Every business kind of has these core buckets that regardless of how large the organization is,

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you still have it. You've got finance, you've got your customers or your clients,

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you've got your staff and your HR.

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So you've got those. But I bet your resources aren't what they were out there in the big data space.

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So how do you think through some of those data projects and how you scale them down to actually,

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oh, I'm not going to use the kind of frameworks and architectures I did out there in the big companies

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who could throw the resources at building something very robust and scalable.

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So what's that journey been like for you, Jim, to take all that experience and say,

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OK, now how do I fit it in a slightly smaller box?

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Yes, in a very smaller box. Yes.

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So, yeah, I'm basically from a technology standpoint, I'm an army of one.

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So going from consulting and working with teams, it's a very different mindset where solutions

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that need to be implemented have to be implemented in a way that it can be hands off.

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Like once it's going, it just needs to run by itself or have very little interaction just because

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I'm only one person.

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So I guess in a broad sense, there is camp software out there and there's

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there are platforms out there and they're good.

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We make good use of the vendor space where we where all camps.

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And I've talked to several other camps that are in the same boat where we have trouble is data wrangling.

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OK, so we've got one system to do health profiles and we've got one system that's a registration system.

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And some other camps would have multiple registration systems.

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How do we get it all together?

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How do we actually manage camp in a way that makes it seamless for the campers or the guests?

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But behind the scenes, the data is coming from all over the place.

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And so that's definitely a challenge that we have.

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But that said, like that's kind of where my space or my experience has been is getting systems to talk to each other.

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And so being able to take some strategies and implement patterns of, OK, well, if I can build a solution that doesn't require a lot of

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technical expertise so that I can hand this off to another team member, but then it just kind of takes care of itself.

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And I only need to fix it if the data source changes or things like that.

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That's strategies like that are really what need to be implemented at camp to be able to make it run right.

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Yeah, great.

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I'm wondering if you even mind sharing a little bit about what that strategy has looked like so far for you.

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Is it utilizing a master data management system or is it something more homegrown?

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I know you're trying to avoid too technical of a solution, so I'm assuming it's got to have some low code effort baked into it.

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So share a little bit about what that strategy is, if you don't mind.

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Yeah, so there's been many projects and some of them are.

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So I've actually I've implemented a data warehouse here, but it's running on SQL Server standard.

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We've got a tabular model and we've got some power BI that kind of sits on top of it.

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And again, it just kind of like it runs, it takes care of itself and our leaders love it.

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But then I also have things like implementing using a lot of power query, actually.

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So I'm getting my team and the whole staff more acquainted with Excel and being able to say, hey, you know what?

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I've got this I've got data from other places, these other systems.

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And if you just run this report and say, refresh the data.

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Hey, you know what? This this spreadsheet will work a lot better for you and it'll be up to date.

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And that's actually gone a really long way.

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And I've seen like real operational results, even just from simple things like getting running a comma separated file out of a system

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and then handing it off to my facility team leader and saying, you know what?

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This will tell you how many buses you need to drive downstate this weekend.

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And so we see real results using the data that we already have and just using it in new ways.

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That's cool. And the world still runs on Excel, right?

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So the fact that you're just able to accelerate their knowledge and use of the tool, so it's even better.

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That's that's a great opportunity in that kind of a setting.

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And one thing that I'll say, like it was only eight years ago that camp switched to even just registering people using a database.

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Nine years ago, everything that was registration based was on paper.

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And so we've come a long way from we're managing paper registrations to now we're a we're becoming a data driven organization.

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And albeit we don't have fancy tools, but we have Excel and we have these systems in place that we're trying to maintain well

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and have the information that we need and be able to use the information that we're collecting.

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So what does that look like for the staff who were there before you had data implemented, any of these systems or more technology solutions there?

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What's it like for them to transition from maybe I used to working with paper and for maybe you, Jim, to help guide them into a world of, hey, we can use Excel for this.

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We can use Power BI for this. And how has that transition been?

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How how did you help them along that journey? And what are the what are some more results of that?

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Yeah, that's a great question. It's it's been interesting.

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I've got some people on staff that are really embracing the new technology like, hey, this is this is great.

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I can I can do this now. I can actually do do my role better.

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I've got other people that are just cautious about, you know, are do we really need to do this?

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And so sometimes it takes a little more coaxing and or maybe I should say coaching

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and doing training and kind of just raising the whole level of the baseline of where where are where is our staff, where are our technology skills?

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And then how do we continue to improve and then use the data that we have to make the whole thing run better?

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So even down to like when I got here four years ago, not even everybody even had an email account.

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And now everybody is on Office 365. We're actually all using SharePoint and we're we're kind of doing an implementation of Teams.

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And we're starting to collaborate more, which is great.

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That's that's what digital transformation is all about.

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So, yeah, it's it's a it's a fun experience to just kind of come into an organization that really does

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need guidance into into the data driven space.

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I think it's really neat that you're describing full end to end solutioning of technology and not just standing up a power report

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or standing up the data warehouse to have the data flowing here so you can get reports in other ways.

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You're talking about Teams, Office 365.

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I'm curious, what is your role been like as you are helping the organization think through this?

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Ultimately, we'll feed data into a place to help you make better decisions.

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And so what has that been like when are you the tech guy or are you just the data guy?

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And what's that look like where your role bleeds into the other roles within the organization as you're communicating with leadership,

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as you're communicating with peers, just curious if you could give us more of a picture into that.

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Yeah, and I think as I introduced myself, I it's it's business operations and technology.

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And so it really encompasses both.

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And I would say I would I would almost say it encompasses them both equally.

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So it really is business process and the organization of how to how to run and administer a small camping ministry

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or maybe a larger camping ministry, but a smaller organization.

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But then also all the technology that's associated with that.

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So it's not just data.

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In fact, I would say maybe a third of it is data.

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Some of it is network and some of it is just server administration and just, you know,

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tech administration in general and desktop administration and things like that.

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But it's all it's all aspects of technology.

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But in a smaller organization, that's actually good because I can actually see end to end all the needs

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and be able to satisfy those using any layer of of the technology stack that's required.

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So it could be I have this problem, but I can solve it at the desktop level or I can solve it at the server level

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or I can solve it at, you know, using using tools.

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And so it's it's really a unique position to be in to be able to guide that.

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And I am working with other leaders in the organization and kind of leading those efforts to to make all the different

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teams integrate well with with the data that they have.

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I think about the listeners for this podcast and the audience is leaders who are in a nonprofit world,

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tech leaders, data leaders, people who function there.

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And a lot of them have found themselves in this place of I'm in an organization that doesn't have any sort of tech

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maturity or maybe everything's still paper registrations and maybe the place you found yourself in four years ago.

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What how do you think about prioritizing the types of tech initiatives you want to step into first?

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Because there's a huge list you could come up with of ideas of what to do next and of needs that could be solved by technology.

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But as a as a one man band doing it all, how do you think about prioritizing both from a budget perspective

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and your bandwidth of taking an organization from low tech technology adoption to to something more mature?

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How is that part of this meant for you?

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So you aren't you just saying how do we find a Jim Bennett?

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That's what I want at my company.

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Yes, yes. Every nonprofit out there is like, can I have somebody like Jim to help us go from paper registration to to some sort of

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maturity with a warehouse and IT systems?

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Yeah, so I would say I have three initiatives that I've really been focused on in the past four years.

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The first one is digital transformation.

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And we've been talking kind of in that space a little bit and we can talk more about that.

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And then the second one would be just responding to input from the community, the barricade community.

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So parents, guests, how do we make camp fit where where our constituents actually are?

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We want to we don't we that's why we moved away from paper.

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Like we're we're trying to respond to to the input from our community.

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And then the third one is just building the technical skills of both my team and the whole staff in general.

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So those are kind of the three initiatives that I've had.

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I guess where I started four years ago was camp didn't even have a network throughout camp itself.

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So we've got many buildings throughout camp.

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I didn't have a way to actually other than the office itself here, I didn't have a way to actually have any sort of high speed Internet to some buildings that people work out of every day.

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We actually had DSL modems when we started to actually provide network to different buildings.

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And so one of my one of my first priorities was building a foundation of stability with a network itself.

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So actually, I had to learn how to implement a fiber optic network and like bury it in the ground and terminate everything.

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Literally getting your hands dirty like with a fiber.

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It was getting my hands dirty.

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Yes. But but once you have a network infrastructure, OK, now we can actually really start talking about providing services and collecting data and working with data.

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So it's it's everything from OK, well, now my team has the ability to on their laptop or on their device, be able to connect to SharePoint or be able to work with a spreadsheet that's that's saved in SharePoint or work or be able to even access the Internet for that matter.

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Down to even so I implemented a project a few years ago about all of our buildings have fire alarm systems.

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Well, that's great. It gets the people out of the building if there's a fire.

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But campus pretty there's a lot of buildings here and we we would really like to know if a building is on fire.

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But the panels just get people out of the building.

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Well, with a with a network in place, we can actually we actually implemented a little Raspberry Pi solution where we hooked up directly to the panel, like the contacts in the panels, wrote a little Python script.

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I ended up building a small little web service that all the all the Raspberry Pi is dumped to.

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And it all dumps into a database and hey, we've we've actually have visibility now with an operational dashboard to say here's the status of all of our buildings.

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And not only that, now I can tell, like, are we having a power problem in the building because things aren't reporting in.

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And so we can we can take better advantage of things like that and be able to collect data and use that data effectively to manage camp better.

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Obviously, the these types of initiatives, though, like take financial resources and they also have some sort of ROI attached to them sometimes, perhaps.

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I mean, it's hard to measure the ROI of knowing when a building's on fire, but even some more more tangible things.

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So how how has budget played into, hey, we need to invest more in this idea of the structure of last four years to do this digital transformation.

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And is there a return on that or is it just an efficiency upgrade overall?

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How have you thought about investing money into this space and then seeing results from it?

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Sure. Yeah. When I first started, I are our technology budget was so most organizations technology, at least in the nonprofit space, is somewhere between 10 and 15 percent.

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That's pretty normal. And I would say we were on the low side of that, even if we were on the low side of that.

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But part of that was because not because we were investing a lot in technology, but because we were investing a lot in a solution that wasn't working well.

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So we were we had contracted with a with a not a cloud provider, but just like a a rack space type of not rock space, but a rack space type of provider to host our financial system.

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And so when I first came, I'm like, well, we can just host it here and ended up buying a server and it paid for itself in a year.

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And now we have lots of extra resources to use on other things.

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And so it's things like that where it's looking at the whole solution or the whole implementation of technology and saying it is a priority thing.

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And yes, I need to make sure that I have I'm planning for a budget.

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And our director is very understanding of needing to make sure that we're moving in a direction that that includes technology in the processes that we're building.

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So I haven't had to have a lot of challenge in that area.

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But what it really does is it focuses now on like, well, great. Now, what do we actually need to build?

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What do we need to actually implement so that things are things actually do improve and are better?

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And so it's through through the years, it's been definitely just providing computing resources to the staff in general.

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Again, making sure that we have the right systems in place. So this volunteer management system, again, that was all done on paper before.

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So, hey, let's actually find the right system and implement it in a way that not just works for our volunteers that are coming,

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but also works for the staff that are here and be able to use that information and manage it in a way that makes like our summer staff recruiting process easier.

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And seeing where our entire volunteers are really are in the process.

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All of that's really important. And it helps us actually run the place better.

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So now I'm going to cash in on a rare opportunity where I'm on a call with someone who knows Sawyer almost as long as I do.

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So, Jim, I want to go a totally different direction in the conversation for a moment and just tell me some cool things about Sawyer as he was getting into the data space.

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I want to hear a little bit about that story. How did you guys meet and what was it like to teach this young upcoming data guy the first tricks of the trade?

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So Sawyer and I actually met here at camp and he I think it was you came to a family camp, right?

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It was a family camp.

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And I we were we were not quite here yet, but we were we were raising our support to be able to be here.

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And so we got introduced that that weekend.

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And then, I don't know, it was like three weeks later, something like that.

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I had I was doing technical interviews for the company that we ended up both working for Blue Granite.

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And I'm like, wait, are you the same Sawyer Nyquist that I just met like three weeks ago?

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And so we had a we had a laugh about that.

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And then, yeah, it was it was bringing him on the Blue Granite team and I was as I was his coach for the first six months or so.

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So that was a lot of fun just kind of seeing working with Sawyer just kind of in those early days.

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And it was it was very clear to me just from the beginning, like, oh, yeah, this is somebody that belongs on this team.

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If there was ever a risky hire, Jim Jim took it on me.

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So it was it was one of those very, very surprising instances where I met Jim.

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I don't think we didn't talk about the company or Blue Granite where I was interviewing at all.

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I didn't know you worked there until I see two weeks later.

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Oh, look, Jim, that's my interviewer. That name sounds familiar.

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And then I was even more nervous because I was like, oh, no, this person has interacted with me outside of this.

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I'm stepping into an interview for a job that I really wanted. And again, I don't think I had the credentials or the any sort of all the skills required for that job.

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But I think based on Jim cashing in a lot of internal internal credibility with me, he got he pushed me through and got me the job, which I was been very grateful for.

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That was part of my job, though, was to find those those those rare diamonds in the rough and be able to recognize that and say, no, no, we really need this guy.

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So what what skills was it? That's that's what I want to know.

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A lot of times we hear about people breaking into the data space and they feel this need to be able to say they got SQL and Python.

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They're, you know, three years experience in a particular data stack doing something with Tableau or Looker, whatever it is.

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You know, and we name drop languages, we name drop tech.

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So what was it about Sawyer that maybe he didn't have all the tech and the languages that came to the surface in those interviews and just encouragement to those who might be seeking those diamonds in the rough?

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It's more about finding these things, not so much the tech.

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I'm curious how you would respond to that.

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Yeah, there's a really there's a fine balance in there because part of it is the technology.

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But part part of consulting is interacting well with other people, being able to organize your thoughts well.

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And I'm not saying that Sawyer didn't have all the technology chops.

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I was I was saying that.

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It was his career that was that was expected.

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But it's really the looking at the whole person and saying there's a there's a whole broader view of fit here.

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And then a lot of what I would do in interviews is, yeah, there's there's technology questions for sure.

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But a lot of it is methodology and a lot of it is principles.

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Like it when I talk about building a data warehouse, I mean, yeah, we can we can talk about the different technologies that are associated with that.

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But let's talk about methodology.

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Let's talk about what are the approaches that you take to building data warehouse?

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What who do you even need to talk to to make sure that you're you're going to build one well?

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And what are the conversations you need to have?

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And then what are the principles of of building data warehouses?

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And then we can actually start talking about the technology itself.

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And that's how you build successful solutions.

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And so that's kind of how the interviews go is like, let's let's not just talk about technology.

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Yes, technology is important, but let's talk about methodology.

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Let's talk about how we interact with people and all of that.

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So one of the things that Sawyer and I both agree about when it comes to data is the soft skills,

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the ability to interact with people and recognize that many of our problems in processing data,

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in analyzing data and presenting that data are people problems, not data problems.

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And that's because it comes down to can you communicate well, can you understand the requirements of the business and understand what the leaders are actually thinking they need?

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And then you translate that back into a tech solution.

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So many times data projects or data products have failed because we've taken a very wooden requirement and coded it and delivered on it.

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But it wasn't actually what they meant because we didn't take the time to sit and marinate in what was valuable to the business.

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So I appreciate you bringing out some of those soft skills as it's just as important as the tech side of things.

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So thanks. Absolutely.

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And then also, I 100% agree with you, Troy.

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And then I would go a step further and say, once we have the solutions, we also need adoption.

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Like, how do we actually make sure that, OK, great, we've got this technology solution.

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But if our staff can't use it well or don't know how to use the tools the right way, it's playing the radio in the Ferrari.

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And so, yeah, that's definitely a part of it, too.

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And when you're an IT team of one or even two or three in smaller organizations, you don't have the luxury of just fiddling with servers and code all day.

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Like, you're even your role, Jim, as a business operations and technology.

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Like, there's a you have to be interacting with all the different members of the different teams and staff at camp and be able to listen, understand, adapt and innovate alongside them.

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And it isn't you can't just do tech techie stuff all day.

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No, absolutely.

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We glossed over this a little bit in your introduction, Jim, but you had a very successful career, a lot of meaningful direction and like a lot of.

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Yeah, I'm going to call you a very successful data person and technologist.

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Most people don't leave that career to go run away to the woods in northern Michigan and run in a small camp.

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So tell me a little bit, what does camp mean to you?

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How did you end up there and why like why is camp important to you from that perspective for you to make such a big transition?

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At a point in your career?

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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We I actually came to camp when I was a kid.

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So I started coming to camp in the summer times when I was eight years old and loved it.

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I came back when I was in college and was on was a counselor for two years.

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I actually I met my wife in college and she came back for a year and counseled for the summer and counseled with me for a second summer.

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And then through the years, we've been both coming to camp just as adults and as a family,

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but then also volunteering at camp.

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That's been a really important part of of who we are is volunteering and camp is a big part of that.

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And so I we've been volunteering for a long time.

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And so during the consulting years, I was I was basically volunteering on nights and weekends for camp.

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And that was a lot of fun. It's a little overwhelming sometimes when you're on the road and then doing some more volunteer work.

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But in general, really a few years, we were probably five years, five or six years into the consulting time.

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And we really just felt a calling to to kind of step away from our current path of this data analytics consulting world and lots of new projects and travel and all that sort of stuff.

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And really felt a calling to just come and help run this organization here.

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And that calling was it was really powerful.

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And we we talked to lots of people. I think I even talked to you, sorry about it and talked to lots of people, talked to our pastor and really just felt like it was a it was a calling to come here and and be able to take the experiences that and those little nuggets that we've that I was been working through for years and years and years and be able to just apply it here at camp.

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In in a much smaller ministry, but a much needed ministry. So it's yeah, I'm assuming today's your question.

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I have a follow up on it, maybe to dig a little deeper, but to think about calling and to feel drawn to something, I'm assuming that's because you really believe in the mission of that organization.

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So maybe just for those listening in, what is the mission of the camp? You know, a lot of times we think of it is to provide an opportunity for a lot of fun in the summer.

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But I believe it's probably more than that. So share what it was about the mission in your own words that really did tug on your heart to make that change.

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Sure. Yeah. So so camp camp.

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Barricade has been around for over 80 years at this point, and it started out as a pastor noticing his the teens in his church were just not paying attention during the sermons.

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And so he said, you know what? Let's take him camping. And that's how this ministry started was getting kids to really be able to have real conversations about about who God is and, you know, what Christ has done.

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And that's that continues to this day. We have many thousands of people that come to camp each year.

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We have many a couple of thousand volunteers that come.

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And it's all to basically proclaim the the ministry work of of Christ and be able to take kids and bring them into the wood, the Northwoods and kind of get them away from technology for a week.

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And experience the Northwoods and hear good messages that are Bible based.

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And that's that's kind of the ministry of campus is that the mission of campus is to do that well, which is interesting because I'm coming from a from a I'm in a position where I'm implementing technology for a ministry that wants to bring kids here to take away technology.

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So it's a it's a it's a delicate balance there.

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And we definitely don't want to change how how this works or what what the campers see.

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But we definitely want to run it well. And that doesn't mean that we use technology in appropriate ways.

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This is one of the reasons I love the nonprofit world is because people often don't just take a job at a nonprofit randomly. Like there's usually a purposeful reason people land at a specific nonprofit.

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It's because there's something meaningful about the work. People will take a job at regular for profit companies just for a paycheck.

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But the paycheck at the nonprofit is rarely the main reason you're there.

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In your case, Jim, like you're a supported staff member, like you have people who donate to you to pay your salary.

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And so I love hearing like why can't matters.

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My kids have been to Camp Barrett and they will be back there this summer.

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And so I can just resonate with the importance of sending kids out into the woods and the people who are there that will care for them, care about them, give them great experience.

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And so, yeah, I'm grateful for the type of work and I'm grateful for how nonprofits operate that way.

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They they pull in people who have a passion and an interest in what's happening in that in that organization.

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Oh, this has been great. And just just personally, I've I was looking forward to recording this because Jim has been so influential on my career.

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Jim, with with no exaggeration, my life has been changed pretty significantly because I got that first job that you my first real data job, my first adult data job.

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And since then, my career has the opportunities have been before me and my family have just been tremendous.

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So I'm deeply grateful for the work you had in your prior career life and the work you're still doing at Barricade.

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That's still kind of impacting my life as my kids land at camp.

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And I use that online camp registration and the parent volunteer for those kind of things that that I'll have to mail in an application.

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So, Jim, this has been great. If somebody wanted to find out about you or more about Camp Barricade, where could they go to to find you online, Jim?

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Yep. To find out more about camp, you can go to Camp Barricade.

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That's B-A-R-A-K-E-L dot O-R-G.

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And if you're interested in just having a conversation with me, I'm also on LinkedIn.

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And you can find me there for Camp Barricade on LinkedIn.

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Random question. Do you guys do weddings at Camp Barricade?

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We've done weddings, but only for members of the staff or family members of the staff.

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That's fair, because I just want to know if you know what the bride said when she dropped her bouquet.

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I don't know. Whoops a daisy.

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That's really bad. Yes.

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You know, one of my small goals of this podcast is that I will do enough episodes that Troy will run out of dad jokes.

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But we'll see. I don't know. He might have a long list.

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I've got a long list of dad jokes.

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And that was this one. I tried to sneak it in so it wasn't as obvious, but I guess I failed.

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All right. Well, that's all for today, folks.

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Thanks so much for joining us and I hope you join us next time for Making Data Matter.